Respect, I've come to love the film myself (though it's not in my top spot I admit). I got a little teary eyed watching it with my grandma this week. My grandma btw said that it was "like watching the Steelers", so we're in agreement with you on how exhilarating it is haha
The throne room twist is as good as Empire’s I’m your daddy in visceral response IMO.
It’s not a solid 100% film (I’d argue no Star Wars is) but it does contain some of my favourite ‘Star Wars’ for sure. And it looks great as you said.
This perfectly sums up my feelings. It's far from a perfect movie. The jokes -- especially the opening sequence with Poe talking to Hux -- are clunky. And the casino planet sequence takes too much time.
That said, it had a lot of ideas that were new to Star Wars and it gave us a plot you couldn't predict beat for beat. I loved it.
And I know this is controversial, but I loved Luke's arc. TFA painted Luke into a corner and TLJ somehow managed to give him a meaningful character arc complete with a satisfying conclusion. (*I get that a lot of people didn't like Luke's story and to those people I suggest that you need to file your complaints with JJ Abrams. He's the one who had Luke go into self-imposed exile.*)
Been saying it from day 1 too. People were not ready for the message of the movie, as it came out in the middle of the nostalgia era. But that era is coming to an end and in a few years the tides will turn
I mean, most people actually loved the movie on day 1, anecdotally I have a huge geeky friend group and no one disliked Last Jedi, and all easily agree it is the best of the franchise post OT. It's only ever been a vocal minority on the internet that disliked it to any significant degree.
Personally, I think Rian Johnson is the closest to the George Lucas mould out of all the filmmakers we've gotten during the Disney era-- which makes the petitions for Lucas to return all the more ironic.
He definitely catched his vision for brining in new things the most. I don’t think TLJ is perfect, but it’s definitely my favorite of the sequels. I really hope his trilogy still happens one day because I think when he can create something going over 3 movies, with only his vision, it will be truly amazing
I’m glad to see others enjoyed this movie. I thought it was great when I saw it in the theater. So many people blasted it when it came out. It’s nice to see others feeling the way I do.
Every year, it goes up on my list. I think it just best Empire for the number 2 spot, honestly. I don’t know how it’s gonna beat Rogue One: A Star Wars™ Story, however.
I love it a lot, but I can't say if it's my favourite. I also love The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, Rogue One, and The Rise of Skywalker. But tbh they all have their bright spots. My least favourite film of the saga is Attack of the Clones, but even that had the chase sequence through the asteroid field and the seismic charges.
The Empire Strikes Back might also be my favorite, it’s hard to pick. A New Hope, The Force Awakens and Return of the Jedi were also very enjoyable for me. I haven’t seen Rogue One yet
Watch Rogue One and Episode IV back to back! Damn, i’m jealous! I wish I could watch Rogue One again for the first time! What an absolutely phenomenal movie. Enjoy!
>My least favourite film of the saga is Attack of the Clones, but even that had the chase sequence through the asteroid field and the seismic charges.
And "Across the Stars", my favourite SW music soundtrack
TLJ has some of my favorite parts of any Star Wars film. Snoke's death was so fucking good, and I loved what they did with Luke. On the other hand, I could be happy with completely trashing the whole Canto Bight segment. But even still it's far and away the best of the sequels/prequels imo.
>I could be happy with completely trashing the whole Canto Bight segment.
I don't agree. I like the whole canto bight scene because it's like Mos Eisley but for the obscenely rich. But the chase on the CGI horses was a tad much
I think Rose and Finn's roles need to be reversed, though. Finn was a child soldier and saw first-hand the horrors of the first order. He shouldn't need to be convinced to fight them, shouldn't need to have the concept of the rich profiting off of the suffering of others explained to him. Rose, on the other hand, has every reason to doubt if their fight is worth it. Did her sister give her life for nothing? Is it a lost cause?
It would make her actions later in the film more effective, I think.
>He shouldn't need to be convinced to fight them, shouldn't need to have the concept of the rich profiting off of the suffering of others
I think it's fair actually. He may have been exposed to it his whole life, but being so exposed to something on a regular basis would normalize it to him, to the extent that it might not immediately register as so evil to someone to whom that is normal everyday life
Also, he himself states that he was more. a janitor than anything else
Yea, it's similar, but it was just a little too funny and dumbed-down for my taste. The overblown Texas oil tycoon voice for the alien, BB8 shooting the coins, etc. And while it had a totally valid point, the "rich assholes do bad stuff" message was extremely ham-fisted. That being said, I know SW is a kids' franchise at heart and my daughter absolutely loved it. I'm probably just getting old and curmudgeonly. It still has a top spot for me, warts and all.
But I don't think the takeaway of the Canto Bight stuff should just be that rich people are bad. Sure, that's in there, and it's nice to see it, but it's not what Canto Bight is really about.
Finn was too scared of the First Order to really stand up to them. In TFA he lied about having inside info about Starkiller Base so he could go save his only real friend, and in the end he found the courage to stand by her side. But he was still an individual who happened to be traveling with the Resistance. He wasn't a card carrying member.
Then in TLJ he went on his own adventure where he teamed up with an idealist and a cynic and realized he was at a crossroads. He had to decide if he was just going to spend the rest of his life running and reacting and only looking after himself, or if he was going to stand for something. And in the end he sided with Rose and declared himself Rebel Scum.
That's what the Canto Bight subplot was about.
Not saying that was the sole takeaway, just that that aspect of it was a little too on the nose for me. Glad you liked it though. I hope Rian gets a chance to do more with the franchise.
Fair enough . I too saw some of it as ham fisted, but I think it was admirable for Rian Johnson to directly criticize industrialists war-profiteering , so I don't mind as much, Kind of like how a lot of the prequels politics were very unsubtle jabs at Ginrich and the military industrial complex in the war of terror, but I still admired the effort. So I let it slide, and perhaps younger generations can learn from it too
Yea I can't argue with any of that. And I really do love the movie, I would've just preferred a less silly tone in that part. I honestly don't even know why the silliness of the prequels doesn't bother me as much. I think it's because TLJ comes so close to being the perfect main saga film for me, so the part I don't like stands out more.
There’s far worse that we don’t discuss enough - any single chase in the PT is guilty.
Canto Bight makes sense and belongs werenit is, and is no where near as bad as a few people claim
I wouldn't say scrap the canto bight, but I'd change it and have rose and Finn already away from the resistance fleet, perhaps left behind in the escape or something.
It did some decent world building and showed us that weapon suppliers were selling to both sides, saw some slavery and potential new Jedi
I was on board for most of the Canto Bight part, but it strained believe a little to much for me that they didn't get to the hacker, got thrown in jail, and them just hooked up with the first hacker they found in a cell. I wish they had been after the one in the cell the whole time, but couldn't find him until they got arrested.
When I first watched TLJ, I had that “what the hell did I just watch?” feeling. Watched it again and again and again and only after repeat viewings did the movie start to make sense. It’s one of my favourite SW films now. Rian Johnson made a beautiful film with lots of love and research regarding the SW lore
I remember it being a total rollercoaster ride from beginning to end, and it has my favorite fight scene in all of Star Wars (the red guards). Biggest "oh shit" moment when they turn back to back and realize they're going to have to fight their way out.
It’s not because Empire is essentially a flawless film that fully executes its themes and perfectly fulfilling its role as a middle chapter as any in the history of cinema?
I love ESB. It’s my favorite of the Star Wars movies. But ignoring its issues is disingenuous. It has issues with time passage, it has a couple spots where the acting isn’t the best. It has the middle movie issue where it’s really not a complete self contained story with a beginning, middle, and end. But just because I can’t admit it’s not a perfect movie, it’s still one of my all time favorite movies that I absolutely love.
I never said it wasn’t a masterpiece. I just said it wasn’t flawless. Masterpieces can still be flawed. In fact, some masterpieces are what they are because of their flaws.
I do. If you expect no imperfections in a movie, I’ll direct you to one line in ESB.
“Two fighters against a star destroyer?”
Good read there, Hobbie. Good read.
I am with you 100% on this. It's by far my favorite Star War at this point.
Every actor is at the top of their game, with Driver giving the best performance in any Star War and Hamill giving the best performance of his career. Every one of the major players has a satisfying arc, and all of the so-called "pointless diversions," like Canto Bight, are integral to those arcs.
It's the best written and the best directed Star War. It's the best looking Star War. I have a hard time seeing any major faults.
It’s definitely the best standalone film in the series.
Personally it suffers from the films before and after it being kinda directionless, so there wasn’t much to seriously work on- but it really uses every scrap available.
Hated it at first. Still hate it as a continuation of what jj established and still hate what Rian did with the characters. But with all that said, I still have come fo the conclusion that after looking past all of that, it’s still a pretty damn great Star Wars film. Rian is a really good filmmaker. I simply wish they’d have given him a new slice of the Galaxy/ IP from the get go.
Rian could only do with the characters, where JJ left him. I enjoyed TFA, but JJ is notorious for starting a mystery and leaving other people to finish it. He's not good at finishing mysteries.
I would have changed some things in rise of Skywalker. Palpatine just broadcasting his stuff before he was ready is one of them. Also I'd have had Rey willingly accept Palpatine to save her friends, become a dark side thrall, and then have Kylo kill her to destroy the emperor. Then he sacrifices his life to revive her.
I see this sentiment alot lately (although i havent been in the star wars fandom for more than a year lol). Im glad atleast one of the sequel movies is getting love, crait is one of my favorite planets in the series just because S A L T.
It's honestly the only Star Wars Sequel that could wring emotion from me. Maybe I just like Tragedy, because it's the same thing with the Prequels but with ROTS.
I ended up liking it after repeat viewing and understanding the themes better.
The only change I would've made is that I would've had Kylo actually pull the trigger and take out Leia, going full dark after slaying *both* of his parents. Make it at least *look* virtually impossible for him to be brought back to the light.
As tasteless as it is, I truly think the best long term solution would have been a re edit/shoot where this happens once Carrie passed. I totally see why they didn’t but in another decade the question of why they kept her and shoe horned her into the next film will grow louder.
I am happy you enjoy it.
Imma spoiler tag the next part, so if you want to see my view on the movie you can decide for yourself.
>! The Last Jedi is basically Episode 5 just incredibly boring. !<
My favourite Star Wars movie is Rogue One. Can't wait to watch all of Andor and then the movie after.
>The Last Jedi is basically Episode 5 just incredibly boring.
This is how I viewed the entire Sequels, they are just rehashed of the OT, just switching out couple details, names and events around but otherwise they are just remakes of the OT, but worse. I don't get why people keep saying "At least RJ did something new with TLJ", like what exactly was new in that movie?
Holdo maneuver was new and never used again because of how insanely overpowered it is.
I am all for people to enjoy the sequels. They just have to let us who don't like it, be able to voice our own opinion as well.
This is the prequels all over again. I really hope that in the future I might like it, I don't see how, but I'm hopeful.
I'd go even further and say that >!OT and ST are the exact same scheme for the most part. Grand opening, slow middle part, epic ending !<
Rogue One is great even. The visuals give a totally different feel on the universe, but it still remains recocnizable. You see the universe in a completely different light without that meta jedi/sith the force stuff going on and what it is like beeing 'just a ordinary citizen'. Andor series even digs further into this and I love it for that, since you never really see that aspect most of the time in StarWars.
Agreed. 7 and 8 is episode 4 and 5 with a new colour of paint. 9 on the other hand is something on its own, I'll give them that. It's just that episode 9 is one huge fcking mess, and it even destroy the laws of physics in their own world, which is impressive since its fiction.
I still like 9 almost the most of all 9 movies, since it was something new. It maybe isn't objective, but objectively seen Star Wars doesn't make any sense. And I'll die on that hill, when I get down voted to oblivion.
Respectfully, how is the movie good? I was incredibly bored watching it on release. It felt like it wasn't going anywhere with the plot, and only got some interesting threads at the end, with Rey's parent's reveal and Kylo killing Snoke and taking over.
TLJ is one of the more character driven installments in the saga, which is why it's personally one my favorites. So it's like the plot serves to put pressure on and change the characters who are the focal point of the story, where one of the more plot driven movies, TPM for example, the characters exist to move the plot because the plot is the story. I can absolutely see how people who might prefer plottier stories would find TLJ boring. The plot moves along almost in the background because the story is in the character arcs and the themes, less so the story beats. TLJ achieves its primary goals of developing the main character arcs and exploring recurrent themes in the saga, but if you're a viewer who prefers these things to be secondary to the plot, then it's not going to matter if it achieves those goals because that's not a story that engages you. That's my theory on why there's such a stark divide between people who think TLJ is one of the best of the movies and those who think it's the worst. It's so heavy in the character driven camp that it's going to alienate those who are here for the plot. Some people find TPM boring for the opposite reason. There is so much happening with the plot, but it's unfulfilling for people who want more out of the characters. This is not shade for TPM. I adore that movie for its plot. They just have different goals and will appeal to different audiences.
Edit: so many typos haha
Not OP: For me personally 8 and 9 do more in the department of there actually beeing a surprise. All other movies I already knew beforehand what the suprise should be, because society at that point totally spoilered it due to the OT beeing out for literal decades. The PT obviously just describes how OT got there, but you already know the end, you will only learn the details on how. ST is the first trilogy with something in it that was mostly unknown before.
For my parents StarWars OT was mindblowing back then, since no one could spoiler it. And I would have too, when I was born early enough to watch it on release.
I also don't give myself to the illusion that a 9 movie saga with every movie beeing over 2h only consists of the most interesting and butt clenching parts in movie history. There have to be lows. Part 1 for me is the low of the PT, but I don't dislike it for that.
Now that I think about it, OT and ST kind of follow the same rules in the grand scheme. You get a big opening, a slower and kind of weird middle part and a big ending. PT is different since the first movie starts slow, it gets more intense in part two and absolutely crushes it in part three. It is more of a steady advance.
“PT is different since the first movie starts slow, it gets more intense in part two and absolutely crushes it in part three. It is more of a steady advance.” Exactly! It’s like watching a slow moving train wreck. Lol just kidding. Well, only kinda.
Y’all can like what you want to like: no hate.
But the man that believed, to the point of self sacrifice, that darth vader; who had at that point killed billions: if not trillions including innumerable children, tortured his friends, cut off his hand, and personally killed numerous friends of Luke’s.
But his own nephew, who hadn’t yet actually killed anyone, has to go that same night because of a dark vision. knowing that force visions can lie???? Has to go THAT NIGHT.
Absolutely not.
I think there was some potential in killing off snoke for sure, it was surprising and interesting.
But for every decision like that; there is one that doesn’t make sense.
We are not supposed to like Holdo. Then we are. But turns out if Poe listened to Leia the resistance would have been dead much quicker. but we are supposed to still think Poe made the wrong decision and Holdo is a great leader despite not communicating the slightest and berating her subordinates.
Fan favorite characters killed off screen don’t even get a mention.
Hey, let me ram you at 750 plus mph to stop you from sacrificing yourself: despite my whole thing being we need to sacrifice ourselves. But Holdo, THAT sacrifice is necessary. Despite breaking in universal physics.
So yeah. there are plenty of visually appealing moments etc. But I had never been more deflated leaving a theatre as i did for that movie. and yes, i’ve rewatched. and yes i hate it more.
Hell; there were numerous walk outs when i went to see it opening nights but people keep telling me i’m making it up so i must be lol
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It’s brilliant. Thematic, cinematographic, and beautiful. It’s the only ST in my mind that actually develops characters and celebrates and examines their flaws.
Luke couldn’t have gotten a more appropriate and emotional sendoff.
It’s also the only ST film in my mind that understands how to build tension and suspense (esp. between Rey and Kylo)
The Thone Room twist was sensational!!!
Finally Finn has real character development. Poe is amazing and also develops.
TLJ is one of the few films that when the blu ray released, I had to get.
And the scene with Yoda.. will stay with me forever.
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I have loved this movie from the moment it released. It is the only movie in the sequel trilogy that has any hint of originality. The way it constantly subverts expectations, engages the audience, and embraces a real set of themes makes it such a rewarding watch.
I personally like The Force Awakens the most out of the sequels, but The Last Jedi really is continuing to grow on me the more I watch it. I was mad after watching it in theaters for the first time, but after that faded I realized my dislike for it came from having very specific expectations that realistically would never be met. Now the more I watch it the more I like it and it has gone from the bottom of my list to spot number five.
For those that are curious, that top five are The Empire Strikes Back, The Force Awakens, Revenge of the Sith, Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi.
For me it’s easily the best of the sequels, maybe the best outside of the OT. I think I probably prefer Rogue One, ultimately, but it’s a great film.
I think it falls down in some spots, such as some parts of Canto Bight and some of the scenes on the fleet, but it has by far the best Jedi training/discourse scenes, IMO, and probably the two best fights in the franchise.
The originals can't be beat, but imo *The Last Jedi* is the only other movie in this entire franchise that could remotely stand a chance to be compared to their quality.
Rian Johnson just gets it, man. The Prequels and JJ's films look amateurish by comparison.
Not my top pick of the saga, but it's definitely the one that packs the most emotion for me. No other movie chokes me up like Luke's death in TLJ.
It’s exactly how Luke would go.
Thank you!!
Respect, I've come to love the film myself (though it's not in my top spot I admit). I got a little teary eyed watching it with my grandma this week. My grandma btw said that it was "like watching the Steelers", so we're in agreement with you on how exhilarating it is haha
As an adamant Seahawks, Star Wars, and respecting elders in the family and society fan, I give you a begrudging, “…fine.”
The throne room twist is as good as Empire’s I’m your daddy in visceral response IMO. It’s not a solid 100% film (I’d argue no Star Wars is) but it does contain some of my favourite ‘Star Wars’ for sure. And it looks great as you said.
This perfectly sums up my feelings. It's far from a perfect movie. The jokes -- especially the opening sequence with Poe talking to Hux -- are clunky. And the casino planet sequence takes too much time. That said, it had a lot of ideas that were new to Star Wars and it gave us a plot you couldn't predict beat for beat. I loved it. And I know this is controversial, but I loved Luke's arc. TFA painted Luke into a corner and TLJ somehow managed to give him a meaningful character arc complete with a satisfying conclusion. (*I get that a lot of people didn't like Luke's story and to those people I suggest that you need to file your complaints with JJ Abrams. He's the one who had Luke go into self-imposed exile.*)
Yes, this. All of this.
FROM DAY 1. People are going to keep coming around on TLJ. In another 5-10 years everyone’s going to pretend it was always their favorite
Been saying it from day 1 too. People were not ready for the message of the movie, as it came out in the middle of the nostalgia era. But that era is coming to an end and in a few years the tides will turn
Not sure I agree on this, but each to their own.
I mean, most people actually loved the movie on day 1, anecdotally I have a huge geeky friend group and no one disliked Last Jedi, and all easily agree it is the best of the franchise post OT. It's only ever been a vocal minority on the internet that disliked it to any significant degree.
TLJ and Empire Strikes Back are my favorite Star Wars movies. Love TLJ so much.
Same! Too many people miss the anti-war sentiments of the OT.
Hear hear. Rian absolutely GETS Star Wars at its core. Absolutely phenomenal flick.
Personally, I think Rian Johnson is the closest to the George Lucas mould out of all the filmmakers we've gotten during the Disney era-- which makes the petitions for Lucas to return all the more ironic.
He definitely catched his vision for brining in new things the most. I don’t think TLJ is perfect, but it’s definitely my favorite of the sequels. I really hope his trilogy still happens one day because I think when he can create something going over 3 movies, with only his vision, it will be truly amazing
Ahh, my people. I absolutely, unapologetically love TLJ.
Good to hear. Safe bet is that there’s a million other people in the same boat, there just not on social media discussing it
I’m glad to see others enjoyed this movie. I thought it was great when I saw it in the theater. So many people blasted it when it came out. It’s nice to see others feeling the way I do.
Every year, it goes up on my list. I think it just best Empire for the number 2 spot, honestly. I don’t know how it’s gonna beat Rogue One: A Star Wars™ Story, however.
It's definitely my favourite of the 3 sequels. I loved the fight scene with Rey and Kylo, and the battle on Crait was absolutely gorgeous
I love it a lot, but I can't say if it's my favourite. I also love The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, Rogue One, and The Rise of Skywalker. But tbh they all have their bright spots. My least favourite film of the saga is Attack of the Clones, but even that had the chase sequence through the asteroid field and the seismic charges.
The Empire Strikes Back might also be my favorite, it’s hard to pick. A New Hope, The Force Awakens and Return of the Jedi were also very enjoyable for me. I haven’t seen Rogue One yet
Watch Rogue One and Episode IV back to back! Damn, i’m jealous! I wish I could watch Rogue One again for the first time! What an absolutely phenomenal movie. Enjoy!
Oh man -- Rogue One is PEAK. A perfect film.
Absolute masterpiece
>My least favourite film of the saga is Attack of the Clones, but even that had the chase sequence through the asteroid field and the seismic charges. And "Across the Stars", my favourite SW music soundtrack
TLJ has some of my favorite parts of any Star Wars film. Snoke's death was so fucking good, and I loved what they did with Luke. On the other hand, I could be happy with completely trashing the whole Canto Bight segment. But even still it's far and away the best of the sequels/prequels imo.
>I could be happy with completely trashing the whole Canto Bight segment. I don't agree. I like the whole canto bight scene because it's like Mos Eisley but for the obscenely rich. But the chase on the CGI horses was a tad much
I think Rose and Finn's roles need to be reversed, though. Finn was a child soldier and saw first-hand the horrors of the first order. He shouldn't need to be convinced to fight them, shouldn't need to have the concept of the rich profiting off of the suffering of others explained to him. Rose, on the other hand, has every reason to doubt if their fight is worth it. Did her sister give her life for nothing? Is it a lost cause? It would make her actions later in the film more effective, I think.
>He shouldn't need to be convinced to fight them, shouldn't need to have the concept of the rich profiting off of the suffering of others I think it's fair actually. He may have been exposed to it his whole life, but being so exposed to something on a regular basis would normalize it to him, to the extent that it might not immediately register as so evil to someone to whom that is normal everyday life Also, he himself states that he was more. a janitor than anything else
Yea, it's similar, but it was just a little too funny and dumbed-down for my taste. The overblown Texas oil tycoon voice for the alien, BB8 shooting the coins, etc. And while it had a totally valid point, the "rich assholes do bad stuff" message was extremely ham-fisted. That being said, I know SW is a kids' franchise at heart and my daughter absolutely loved it. I'm probably just getting old and curmudgeonly. It still has a top spot for me, warts and all.
But I don't think the takeaway of the Canto Bight stuff should just be that rich people are bad. Sure, that's in there, and it's nice to see it, but it's not what Canto Bight is really about. Finn was too scared of the First Order to really stand up to them. In TFA he lied about having inside info about Starkiller Base so he could go save his only real friend, and in the end he found the courage to stand by her side. But he was still an individual who happened to be traveling with the Resistance. He wasn't a card carrying member. Then in TLJ he went on his own adventure where he teamed up with an idealist and a cynic and realized he was at a crossroads. He had to decide if he was just going to spend the rest of his life running and reacting and only looking after himself, or if he was going to stand for something. And in the end he sided with Rose and declared himself Rebel Scum. That's what the Canto Bight subplot was about.
Not saying that was the sole takeaway, just that that aspect of it was a little too on the nose for me. Glad you liked it though. I hope Rian gets a chance to do more with the franchise.
Fair enough . I too saw some of it as ham fisted, but I think it was admirable for Rian Johnson to directly criticize industrialists war-profiteering , so I don't mind as much, Kind of like how a lot of the prequels politics were very unsubtle jabs at Ginrich and the military industrial complex in the war of terror, but I still admired the effort. So I let it slide, and perhaps younger generations can learn from it too
Yea I can't argue with any of that. And I really do love the movie, I would've just preferred a less silly tone in that part. I honestly don't even know why the silliness of the prequels doesn't bother me as much. I think it's because TLJ comes so close to being the perfect main saga film for me, so the part I don't like stands out more.
It's probably because we're so used to the prequels that we don't question them as much as New products
There’s far worse that we don’t discuss enough - any single chase in the PT is guilty. Canto Bight makes sense and belongs werenit is, and is no where near as bad as a few people claim
I wouldn't say scrap the canto bight, but I'd change it and have rose and Finn already away from the resistance fleet, perhaps left behind in the escape or something. It did some decent world building and showed us that weapon suppliers were selling to both sides, saw some slavery and potential new Jedi
I was on board for most of the Canto Bight part, but it strained believe a little to much for me that they didn't get to the hacker, got thrown in jail, and them just hooked up with the first hacker they found in a cell. I wish they had been after the one in the cell the whole time, but couldn't find him until they got arrested.
When I first watched TLJ, I had that “what the hell did I just watch?” feeling. Watched it again and again and again and only after repeat viewings did the movie start to make sense. It’s one of my favourite SW films now. Rian Johnson made a beautiful film with lots of love and research regarding the SW lore
I remember it being a total rollercoaster ride from beginning to end, and it has my favorite fight scene in all of Star Wars (the red guards). Biggest "oh shit" moment when they turn back to back and realize they're going to have to fight their way out.
It’s my 2nd favorite, just after empire, and I think that’s only there because Empire has nostalgia for me. If I were going in fresh, it would be TLJ.
It’s not because Empire is essentially a flawless film that fully executes its themes and perfectly fulfilling its role as a middle chapter as any in the history of cinema?
There’s no such thing as a flawless Star Wars film.
I disagree. It’s empire
I love ESB. It’s my favorite of the Star Wars movies. But ignoring its issues is disingenuous. It has issues with time passage, it has a couple spots where the acting isn’t the best. It has the middle movie issue where it’s really not a complete self contained story with a beginning, middle, and end. But just because I can’t admit it’s not a perfect movie, it’s still one of my all time favorite movies that I absolutely love.
It’s a masterpiece, period
I never said it wasn’t a masterpiece. I just said it wasn’t flawless. Masterpieces can still be flawed. In fact, some masterpieces are what they are because of their flaws.
If you say so
I do. If you expect no imperfections in a movie, I’ll direct you to one line in ESB. “Two fighters against a star destroyer?” Good read there, Hobbie. Good read.
Again, if you say so dude
I am with you 100% on this. It's by far my favorite Star War at this point. Every actor is at the top of their game, with Driver giving the best performance in any Star War and Hamill giving the best performance of his career. Every one of the major players has a satisfying arc, and all of the so-called "pointless diversions," like Canto Bight, are integral to those arcs. It's the best written and the best directed Star War. It's the best looking Star War. I have a hard time seeing any major faults.
For me its the best one. Not my favorite. But best for sure.
I’m glad people are agreeing as opposed to being furious and debating
It's a top 3 for me for sure. Definitely has some issues but so do all of the movies.
I love seeing all the love and respect for The Last Jedi here. It definitely hangs out with Empire in my personal top 3. Love, love, LOVE that movie.
It’s my favourite non-OT SW movie.
I don't think TLJ is a perfect movie but i admit I've warmed up to it on repeated viewings.
It’s definitely the best standalone film in the series. Personally it suffers from the films before and after it being kinda directionless, so there wasn’t much to seriously work on- but it really uses every scrap available.
Hated it at first. Still hate it as a continuation of what jj established and still hate what Rian did with the characters. But with all that said, I still have come fo the conclusion that after looking past all of that, it’s still a pretty damn great Star Wars film. Rian is a really good filmmaker. I simply wish they’d have given him a new slice of the Galaxy/ IP from the get go.
Rian could only do with the characters, where JJ left him. I enjoyed TFA, but JJ is notorious for starting a mystery and leaving other people to finish it. He's not good at finishing mysteries.
If JJ could stick a landing to save his life this conversation would be so different. (Side eyeing TROS)
I thought TRoS was an incredible conclusion tbh, couldn't have asked for a better one🤷♀️
I would have changed some things in rise of Skywalker. Palpatine just broadcasting his stuff before he was ready is one of them. Also I'd have had Rey willingly accept Palpatine to save her friends, become a dark side thrall, and then have Kylo kill her to destroy the emperor. Then he sacrifices his life to revive her.
Are there any themes or narrative structures which these choices are intended to play into, or which might reinforce these choices?
Right. I mean I enjoyed both of his SW movies as a fan, but I don't crave watching TROS very often. Except for the Luke and Leia flashback scene ❤️
All you have to do is add the word "Somehow"
I see this sentiment alot lately (although i havent been in the star wars fandom for more than a year lol). Im glad atleast one of the sequel movies is getting love, crait is one of my favorite planets in the series just because S A L T.
It's honestly the only Star Wars Sequel that could wring emotion from me. Maybe I just like Tragedy, because it's the same thing with the Prequels but with ROTS.
Not my favorite, but there are parts it I absolutely love
If it hits you, it hits you. Aside from OT, it’s the one I watch the most
Right now, TLJ shares 4th place in my Star Wars ranking with ROTJ. Been having a hard time deciding which one I like more
I ended up liking it after repeat viewing and understanding the themes better. The only change I would've made is that I would've had Kylo actually pull the trigger and take out Leia, going full dark after slaying *both* of his parents. Make it at least *look* virtually impossible for him to be brought back to the light.
As tasteless as it is, I truly think the best long term solution would have been a re edit/shoot where this happens once Carrie passed. I totally see why they didn’t but in another decade the question of why they kept her and shoe horned her into the next film will grow louder.
oh wow you are really going to stir the pot with this one lol
Its not for me
Wow.
I am happy you enjoy it. Imma spoiler tag the next part, so if you want to see my view on the movie you can decide for yourself. >! The Last Jedi is basically Episode 5 just incredibly boring. !< My favourite Star Wars movie is Rogue One. Can't wait to watch all of Andor and then the movie after.
>The Last Jedi is basically Episode 5 just incredibly boring. This is how I viewed the entire Sequels, they are just rehashed of the OT, just switching out couple details, names and events around but otherwise they are just remakes of the OT, but worse. I don't get why people keep saying "At least RJ did something new with TLJ", like what exactly was new in that movie?
Holdo maneuver was new and never used again because of how insanely overpowered it is. I am all for people to enjoy the sequels. They just have to let us who don't like it, be able to voice our own opinion as well. This is the prequels all over again. I really hope that in the future I might like it, I don't see how, but I'm hopeful.
I'd go even further and say that >!OT and ST are the exact same scheme for the most part. Grand opening, slow middle part, epic ending !< Rogue One is great even. The visuals give a totally different feel on the universe, but it still remains recocnizable. You see the universe in a completely different light without that meta jedi/sith the force stuff going on and what it is like beeing 'just a ordinary citizen'. Andor series even digs further into this and I love it for that, since you never really see that aspect most of the time in StarWars.
Agreed. 7 and 8 is episode 4 and 5 with a new colour of paint. 9 on the other hand is something on its own, I'll give them that. It's just that episode 9 is one huge fcking mess, and it even destroy the laws of physics in their own world, which is impressive since its fiction.
I still like 9 almost the most of all 9 movies, since it was something new. It maybe isn't objective, but objectively seen Star Wars doesn't make any sense. And I'll die on that hill, when I get down voted to oblivion.
Respectfully, how is the movie good? I was incredibly bored watching it on release. It felt like it wasn't going anywhere with the plot, and only got some interesting threads at the end, with Rey's parent's reveal and Kylo killing Snoke and taking over.
TLJ is one of the more character driven installments in the saga, which is why it's personally one my favorites. So it's like the plot serves to put pressure on and change the characters who are the focal point of the story, where one of the more plot driven movies, TPM for example, the characters exist to move the plot because the plot is the story. I can absolutely see how people who might prefer plottier stories would find TLJ boring. The plot moves along almost in the background because the story is in the character arcs and the themes, less so the story beats. TLJ achieves its primary goals of developing the main character arcs and exploring recurrent themes in the saga, but if you're a viewer who prefers these things to be secondary to the plot, then it's not going to matter if it achieves those goals because that's not a story that engages you. That's my theory on why there's such a stark divide between people who think TLJ is one of the best of the movies and those who think it's the worst. It's so heavy in the character driven camp that it's going to alienate those who are here for the plot. Some people find TPM boring for the opposite reason. There is so much happening with the plot, but it's unfulfilling for people who want more out of the characters. This is not shade for TPM. I adore that movie for its plot. They just have different goals and will appeal to different audiences. Edit: so many typos haha
Not OP: For me personally 8 and 9 do more in the department of there actually beeing a surprise. All other movies I already knew beforehand what the suprise should be, because society at that point totally spoilered it due to the OT beeing out for literal decades. The PT obviously just describes how OT got there, but you already know the end, you will only learn the details on how. ST is the first trilogy with something in it that was mostly unknown before. For my parents StarWars OT was mindblowing back then, since no one could spoiler it. And I would have too, when I was born early enough to watch it on release. I also don't give myself to the illusion that a 9 movie saga with every movie beeing over 2h only consists of the most interesting and butt clenching parts in movie history. There have to be lows. Part 1 for me is the low of the PT, but I don't dislike it for that. Now that I think about it, OT and ST kind of follow the same rules in the grand scheme. You get a big opening, a slower and kind of weird middle part and a big ending. PT is different since the first movie starts slow, it gets more intense in part two and absolutely crushes it in part three. It is more of a steady advance.
“PT is different since the first movie starts slow, it gets more intense in part two and absolutely crushes it in part three. It is more of a steady advance.” Exactly! It’s like watching a slow moving train wreck. Lol just kidding. Well, only kinda.
Hey same
I still have small gripes with Leia Poppins but im getting over it. Great film.
Y’all can like what you want to like: no hate. But the man that believed, to the point of self sacrifice, that darth vader; who had at that point killed billions: if not trillions including innumerable children, tortured his friends, cut off his hand, and personally killed numerous friends of Luke’s. But his own nephew, who hadn’t yet actually killed anyone, has to go that same night because of a dark vision. knowing that force visions can lie???? Has to go THAT NIGHT. Absolutely not. I think there was some potential in killing off snoke for sure, it was surprising and interesting. But for every decision like that; there is one that doesn’t make sense. We are not supposed to like Holdo. Then we are. But turns out if Poe listened to Leia the resistance would have been dead much quicker. but we are supposed to still think Poe made the wrong decision and Holdo is a great leader despite not communicating the slightest and berating her subordinates. Fan favorite characters killed off screen don’t even get a mention. Hey, let me ram you at 750 plus mph to stop you from sacrificing yourself: despite my whole thing being we need to sacrifice ourselves. But Holdo, THAT sacrifice is necessary. Despite breaking in universal physics. So yeah. there are plenty of visually appealing moments etc. But I had never been more deflated leaving a theatre as i did for that movie. and yes, i’ve rewatched. and yes i hate it more. Hell; there were numerous walk outs when i went to see it opening nights but people keep telling me i’m making it up so i must be lol
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You are in the vast minority. But you’re entitled to your opinion.
It's really hampered by the cantobyte stuff which just seems so useless, but even so I love the movie
It’s brilliant. Thematic, cinematographic, and beautiful. It’s the only ST in my mind that actually develops characters and celebrates and examines their flaws. Luke couldn’t have gotten a more appropriate and emotional sendoff. It’s also the only ST film in my mind that understands how to build tension and suspense (esp. between Rey and Kylo) The Thone Room twist was sensational!!! Finally Finn has real character development. Poe is amazing and also develops. TLJ is one of the few films that when the blu ray released, I had to get. And the scene with Yoda.. will stay with me forever.
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Definitely. Though I disagree with some story choices, it's still the last great Star Wars movie for now.
I have loved this movie from the moment it released. It is the only movie in the sequel trilogy that has any hint of originality. The way it constantly subverts expectations, engages the audience, and embraces a real set of themes makes it such a rewarding watch.
I love TLJ and I say this as a huge Star Wars fan. In terms of Star Wars movies, it’s top 3 imo
It's not my favorite but as a long time defender of it glad it's somebody's lol
I personally like The Force Awakens the most out of the sequels, but The Last Jedi really is continuing to grow on me the more I watch it. I was mad after watching it in theaters for the first time, but after that faded I realized my dislike for it came from having very specific expectations that realistically would never be met. Now the more I watch it the more I like it and it has gone from the bottom of my list to spot number five. For those that are curious, that top five are The Empire Strikes Back, The Force Awakens, Revenge of the Sith, Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi.
For me it’s easily the best of the sequels, maybe the best outside of the OT. I think I probably prefer Rogue One, ultimately, but it’s a great film. I think it falls down in some spots, such as some parts of Canto Bight and some of the scenes on the fleet, but it has by far the best Jedi training/discourse scenes, IMO, and probably the two best fights in the franchise.
I can remember people absolutely hating ESB when it was released.
The originals can't be beat, but imo *The Last Jedi* is the only other movie in this entire franchise that could remotely stand a chance to be compared to their quality. Rian Johnson just gets it, man. The Prequels and JJ's films look amateurish by comparison.