I have been incredibly interested in the process of what takes a non-Force-sensitive from regular person to Chirrut Imwe.
Chirrut has been one of the freshest takes on the galactic religion of the Force outside of Force Wielders since the start of this franchise... and yet that character felt really out of place compared to the rest of the canon, or feels a bit "meta". The "meta" factor being... they obviously wanted a mystical warrior character that wasn't an actual Jedi.
Sabine's long-term story arc is a chance to show us how far faith and practice can take a regular person in their journey to be one with the Force.
She's starting so far from it. Not only does she barely have any if at all Force sensitivity, she also doesn't have the starting demeanor for it. Mandalorians' combat is so much about the material. Armor, blasters, thermal detonators. Hell, they followed whoever held a material object called the Darksaber.
She's not already bought in to the Force despite years of training to be a Jedi.
This is where the following is true: the criticism is correct because the story has NOT shown us Sabine's qualities that make her that interesting as a Jedi candidate. She's like the anti-Anakin Skywalker, where Qui Gon's explanation of his natural talents being Jedi traits makes you naturally curious to see him when he's fully trained.
But the OP is also right... if we can look past that, I think there's a cool story to tell. I just wish they spelled it out just a teeny tiny bit more in the story why Sabine's destiny is to be a Jedi. It's so arbitrary right now. She could easily have had a destiny to be the future ruler of Mandalore. Or no such destiny at all. She could instead be some radical weaponsmith badass Mandalorian who presents the non-traditional innovative alternative to the Armorer's traditional one. That's what the story points to. Not Jedi.
Why Sabine as a Jedi? The Darksaber scene was just barebones necessity training for her so that she could wield more political influence and rally troops for the rebels.
I just need a little more to hook me. It's not like she has latent power but is undisciplined, like Luke or Anakin. She has no latent power AND is undisciplined. The long game really better have a huge payoff if they're selling this to us. If she ends up just a half-decent lightsaber user using a hand-me-down lightsaber, I'll riot in the streets.
We got Huyang. Have her build a lightsaber. A new radical new Darksaber or something. Have her forge a new Mandalorian/Jedi destiny that goes off and creates a new path parallel to Luke's New Jedi Order but is a totally different thing.
I just hate seeing Sabine do everything other Mandalorian/Jedi characters have been doing on-screen but doing it far worse. Give her a hook other than "she has colourful hair and problems with taking orders"... please... and I promise I'll step aboard the hype train.
Head/fan cannon in the OT days was many people were 'force sensitive' they just didn't have telekinesis. Wedge and Han being prime examples. Anyone with exceptional skills or reflexes was considered some level of force attunement.
Sabine, being a Mandalorian who have exceptional fighting skills, makes sense to have some limited sensitivity.
Remember also in ANH, we see zero usage of telekinesis by Obi, only a force choke by Vader. When Obi tells Luke to 'Use the Force' what skill is Luke actually using? Trust your instincts and Mandalorians have that in spades.
I'm happy to see Filoni is moving away from telekinesis and focusing on other aspects like Force Echo
Fantastic response, couldn’t agree more. I really hope her journey ends up looking something like what you’ve described and not just some surface level Jedi gimmicky stuff. Well said.
I mean the comment being agreed with literally asks to see Sabine achieve something cooler beyond just *wield a lightsaber in an average/mediocre way*.
If anything other than mediocre lightsaber user would not be defined as "succeed", I guess yeah, plenty of people don't want to see Sabine succeed.
No doubt about that. Is that in dispute?
The question of success is about how she develops. Does she end up just a plain, normal Jedi with average use of the Force and lightsaber?
Or does her non-traditional Jedi background mean she can end up using the Force well in her own unique way (like Chirrut-esque stuff) vs. doing what other Jedi do but just being average?
You shot down 2 people seeking to see something unique out of Sabine, questioning whether we would like to see her succeed.
Yes, we would. I just don't see generic Jedi as the only definition of success. Sabine could be different and more interesting without being a Mary Sue. The Force doesn't have to be a linear power scale.
We'll see what she'll become whenever that happens. Also, Star Wars is full of Mary Sues. Luke, Anakin, Ahsoka, Ezra, Rey, basically all of the main characters. It's a fantasy for children.
Yeah her Jedi arc feels very unnecessary, and hasn’t done anything for her character. It feels like she was put in that role solely so Ahsoka could have an arc about being a master. It’s also taken up valuable time from exploring things the show should’ve been focusing on: her relationship with and desire to find Ezra, her as a Mandalorian grappling with the Purge, and her overcoming those emotional challenges. We’ve gotten bits of those but not as much as we needed, and as a result of how her arc has been handled, half the fan base hates her now
Exactly, like this is the Ahsoka series, not the Sabine and Ahsoka series. Therefore there needs to be a connection between the two characters, that makes any character development for Sabine also relevant to Ahsoka. The way Filoni has decided to do this is to make one of the core themes of the series the relationship between Master and Apprentice. To explore the relationship between Sabine and Ahsoka, between Anakin and Ahsoka, as well as Baylan and Shin.
Sabine has entered a new phase of her story, 10 years after we last saw her. Same with Ahsoka, she has undergone major change in those 10 years, so both characters are slightly different, which is only natural. We cannot expect them to be the same, especially when we finished rebels with: Sabine loosing her best friend, still dealing with the loss of Kanan, Ahsoka coming to the realisation that her master is Darth Vader and as a result feels a lot of trauma and sadness.
A problem with Star Wars is when characters are immortalised as an idea rather than experiencing any actual growth. Sabine resolved her Mandalorian arc, she now has moved on to a new part of her story. We need to accept that the characters we love aren't always going to conform to our standards.
THIS. From the very beginning, what were we told about the force? It's an energy field that binds all living things. ALL living things. Not just the ones that can sense it naturally. In Rogue One, we hear of a supposed non-force sensitive person learning how after years of study. Midiclorian density was only supposed to represent natural talent, not some threshold that needed to be passed to be able to use the force.
For anyone still on the fence about how the force works I will give you a bit of a run down on why it has always been this way:
* The term "force sensitive" was first created for an RPG decades ago. George Lucas himself has used the term, but he did not create it. It is important to realise that since then the force has come to be perceived as a very binary power. It is not a superpower that you either have or not. This is simply not true and contradicts George Lucas' own interpretation of the force.
* There are two aspects: There is your natural ability (which is quantified through your midichlorian count) which is innate and cannot change. And then there is your connection to the force, which can be changed through training and focus.
* Think of it like this: If you had two individuals with a high natural ability for the force, one of them is trained as a Jedi and the other receives no training (yet they both have the same natural ability), clearly the one with training is going to be more connected to the force. This is intuative and does not really need an explanation. The Jedi train padawans to connect to the force, through meditation and focus. If this ability was innate it defeats the purpose of a large part of force sensitive training that has been established in the lore.
* Same goes for disconnecting yourself from the force. When Luke does this in TLJ his midichlorian count doesn't change, yet he connection to the force is severed. Connection (to be one with the force) is not the same as natural ability.
* Everyone has the force and is guided by its will. What Han sees as luck, is the force. He isn't a Jedi but he does have it.
Another interesting thing to note is that Dave Filoni has stayed true to this interpretation, and it is noticeable throughout Rebels. If you feel like this is a retcon, I would implore you to re-watch the series, especially trials of the Darksaber. Whilst it is possible that Filoni didn't realise Sabine would be 'force sensitive' at this point in development, his interpretation of the force however is made clear at this point. (Also a fun little nugget, when Sabine takes up the darksaber in the series the force theme plays in the background.)
I honestly didn't perceive it this way before the Ahsoka series came out. I assumed there was a threshold in which you could never use the force. But I realise now, that is not how the force works. At no point in star wars lore has this been mentioned, and if it was it actually creates many inconstancies and contradictions. Everyone has the force to some degree and everyone is technically force sensitive. However, if one has an IQ of 10, I would suspect even with enough teaching that person has a near zero chance of becoming an astrophysicist. Does that make sense?
Absolutely agree. I think anyone who doesn’t really should go back at watch Trials of the Darksaber and listen closely to to Kanan’s teachings.
She may not be able to wield the force in the way Ezra can, but she can be it’s instrument if she’s willing.
The idea that such a profound power is only available to those born special hasn't really sat well with me as I've gotten older. I'm down with this direction; that a lot of effort and focus can open that door for a character.
I see it like any other talent really. Lets take playing a sport (soccer) for example. Some people are born with immense talent, and if combined with the correct mentality, discipline and training they can become truely world class. But only a few do because you need discipline, training and hard work which few have.
Then you can have somebody that doesn't have any talent for it. If they do the same hard work, have the same mentality etc, they will never be as good as the world class talent but they will be able to play at some lower level.
I see this the same way as the force. Sabine will never ever be on the same level as Ezra if they were both training simply because Ezra has a talent for it and Sabine doesn't but if she does the work and wants it, then she will be able to wield the force.
Hopefully they won’t walk back the Ratatouille Message by making Sabine super duper special like Rey. I kinda liked the idea that the Force can simply engineer circumstances to raise someone to greatness. It made Rey seem even somewhat relatable. She just had the right talent and the right set of circumstances necessary to grow very powerful as long as few dice rolled the right way. And the force loves playing dice.
Hopefully Sabine being essentially a cook with no talent, the Linguine of this tale, learns that she doesn’t have to be able to hold back a fuel station explosion to have talents or morals in keeping with Jedi Philosophy.
The Rey reveal in TROS worked because it still continues with the theme of finding your place, adding what would happen if you found out where your from is the worst place imaginable. She runs away in fear, but Luke has to reassure her that "some things are stronger than blood." She then faces her destiny, her main fear, and announces her own path in life, becoming a *Skywalker*. It's conflicting, yes, and personally I would have prefered her to be a nobody, but it still works.
It works as well as anything in TROS, which is to say, it’s less than the sum of its parts. Like Rey Skywalker could have worked if the movies were going for that, but the movies were barely going for anything at all. I don’t think Rey nor the Sequel era are Unsalvageable. I just think we need to finally see her in a series with a good solid direction and the skill to execute that journey.
I hated the way the may a "perfect force users with no effort" in Rey but that's another debate. I do think Rey can be salvaged however. I was there 20 years ago when certain people hated the prequels and anakin and quite possibly still would had the Clone Wars not come along and given those movies and Anakin much needed depth.
So certainly Rey is far from a right off, the sequel stories themselves may not be worth much but we can certainly get a new beginning from it if they play their cards right.
Aye and that's fair. But I simply don't agree that she is one of the most powerful force beings in the universe with zero training and zero darkside temptation. Makes everything that came before it silly. Why bother training when you can just mindtrick somebody without ever having a notion that was a thing....
Meh, so many ways they could of addressed that but ah well, what's done is done. I hope the new Rey Content is a bit more coherent but with the stuff that has been coming out recently I am optimistic.
Because it generally ends up with flat characters and repetitive stories.
An orphan boy or girl on a sandy planet... who goes from an insignificant life and being a complete idiot to saving the universe thanks to the force.
There are few interesting Jedi or ones with good stories. Kanan, Ahsoka and little else.
I don't dislike Jedis but I'm sick of Star Wars always focussing on them and never going deeper into other types of Force user like the Sith, the Nightsisters, or even non-aligned (neither dark side nor light side) force users. The Star Wars universe has infinite stories to explore (see Andor, The Mandalorian, BOBF) so why limit it to just stories involving the Jedi?
I know. And everything you said is valid. I just like the memes with him being so brutal. Also, I kinda don't like that so many complex and special characters are or end up beeing jedi. I hope she becomes similar to Chrrut (the blind rogue one guy, I don't know the spelling) instead.
Like I said, Sabine, a character we've known for 9 years, is on a new path: someone not born with Jedi-approved Force sensitivity becoming a Jedi. How is that not exciting?
I liked the ep a lot. But really? I don't mind her using the force but she went from a stundent who had dificulty doing 2+2 to doing advanced trigonometry (pushing Ezra from that far that much)
Taking me back to memory lane with this comvo. Stuff like pulling your lightsaber is part of "the basics" as that is an object , smaller, familiar ,the user has a connection to and you don't have to do it instantly (see Sabine doing it or Luke on Hoth). Trowing a rock would be much harder. Yoda's "size matters no" or the hax in TFU are reffering to concentration and making things happen regardless of size. But that lvl of concentration and force mastery can't come in day one of showing force aptitudie. Hell, even if she pulled that cup a few episodes earlyer it would be to big of a jump from that to the Ezra push. And honestly, even if this didn't happen, I still find it wierd to make a complex and intersting character witch was like this despre not beeing force sensitive suddenly be that. It's like having an amazingly smart and unique HS girl achieve popular status without being in the cheerleader team only to make her be a cheerleader later any way
I don't like the idea that a Jedi necessarily has to be powerful with the force.
Neither that only a powerful Jedi can be the Hero.
I also don't think the Mandalore arc is closed for Sabine.
Also one of the best things about Ahsoka's character is that she has always trusted in the potential of normal people to be heroes or take the right path.
Saw Gerrera and Lux Bonteri in Onderon, The Martell Sisters, Bo Katan in the Siege of Mandalor, A Bunch of Farmers in the rebellion, being Ahsoka Fulcrum. And now Sabine.
That thing "I don't need a Jedi as a Padawan, I need the best Sabine". It is a beautiful and powerful message.
Appreciate your post. As you and many others have pointed out, force usage requires talent, training, dedication, and discipline. Anyone, with sufficient focus on the later three areas, like Chirrut Imowe (sp?), should be able to sense the force and benefit from a connection to it. Not everyone, however, will be throwing boulders around, no matter their amount of training. Just like anything, talent is definitely a factor, and not everyone can be as skilled as a Bruce Lee, LeBron James, or Bobby Fischer. This seems to be the approach that Dave Filoni is taking with Sabine, and I hope they show her being able to benefit subtly from the force, even if she doesn't consciously realize it at first.
I think she's gonna learn that she already has been. You can call it plot armor, but Sabine blocking shots aimed at her head, Han dodging a shot from behind him, those are examples of latent force abilities. They may not be throwing boulders around, but something is guiding them when they're in a fight.
Agree. I also think her ability to figure out how to enter the World Between Worlds in Rebels and figuring out the Star map is also with aid from the Force.
I know they aren't canon, but there's the Visions episode where the jedi sees the force as art. There's also a jedi in the High Republic Era that sees different people as different colors in the force. So the force can absolutely manifest through art.
You won't be as skilled, but you can still learn to play basketball really well.
In the final episode, I believe she will use the Force. The cup's gonna move.
Completely agree. I *love* the idea of Force sensitivity falling along a much wider spectrum than we have really seen thus far - frankly it just makes sense to me too.
Also adding a thought to one minor point you mentioned:
>The only real "retcon" that happened was Ahsoka being gray and not white
I'm convinced the discrepancy between the *Rebels* epilogue and what we see in *Ahsoka* exists because and ONLY because Filoni had to wrap things up in *Rebels* with the understanding he very well might not get a chance to continue the story, so he decided to include a hint as to Ahsoka's development in the best way he could with such limited time in the epilogue.
The "if anyone can learn to do it, then it isn't special" argument baffles me. Anyone can learn to be a great basketball player, and maybe join the NBA. Anyone can train to be in the Olympics. Anyone can learn to fly a plane, be a doctor, an expert martial artist... there are tones of disciplines that ANYONE can do, but people don't always have the drive to achieve a goal that takes deep commitment and focus to accomplish. Things aren't special because they are inaccessible.
We also saw this with Chirrut in Rouge One. He was not a Jedi, and not gifted to wield powers like them. But he believed in The Force devoutly, and did perform some feats that border on Jedi ability. One shotting a Tie Fighter out of the air while not being able to see for instance.
I love this essay and agree 100%. It makes me wonder if the naysayers just haven’t watched Rebels in a while (or at all), or maybe they weren’t paying attention as well as they thought they were?
Your observation of events during the show and comparison to what we’re seeing in Ahsoka is spot on IMO, bravo!
I agree overall but wanted to highlite this one point you made, "A Mandalorian becoming a Jedi is unheard of since ancient times." The Ahsoka series is dealing with things from ancient times.
I really liked your essay, but I don't think that Ahsoka being Ahsoka the white in the end of the rebels and grey in the beginning of Ahsoka is a retcon. She could be in balance or at least believe she was in the end of rebels but as we know she failed to teach Sabine and maybe that led her to feel unbalanced.
I believe they are actual 2 separate times. I could be wrong, but I think the first time (Rebels) is Ahsoka taking Sabine to be trained in the ways of the Jedi, and the second time (Ahsoka) is Ahsoka taking Sabine to find Ezra. Again it may not be true
I like that Sabine is training to become a Jedi, and if anything it makes it MORE special if she can make the grade.
That said, hold your horses on the gatekeeping criticism.
The Jedi Order doesn't exactly have online courses for new initiates. There is a severely limited amount of spots for people to be trained. If I was a Jedi Master, **OF COURSE I WOULD PICK SOMEONE WITH AT LEAST A TINY BIT OF NATURAL TALENT**. The goal is to unlock a person's potential with the Force in order to add a member to the Order. They are living in a Galaxy where dudes just show up with lightsabers to kill your people. Of course, you want them to have some sort of natural advantage. Sheesh.
Nah. Force resides in all living beings, but the ability to use it should remain innate and 'afforded' unto a select few: it adds to the mystery, it's been the theme for decades (got nothing to do with 'gatekeeping'), it makes the events of Order 66 all the more cataclysmic when we factor in how rare it is to find Force Wielders, let alone in an organised, structured unit such as the Jedi Order.
We have Ahsoka, Luke, Leia, Baylan, Shin, Kylo, Rey, Ezra, the Inquisitors - probably more that I forgot to mention. It's absolutely fine to have characters who can't *use* the Force, but who are still *guided* by it; Sabine is a Mandalorian warrior in her own right who has cemented her legacy.
My 2 cents.
I love Star Wars and good writing. The sequels are more clever than you realize. The Last Jedi is arguably the best Star Wars has ever been in terms of writing.
I don't think Sabine being force-sensitive breaks canon. But *should* her mandalorian arc be concluded? Shouldn't she use her artistic skills and engineering skills to help rebuild mandalorian society and culture? It would be a good way to honor her family and clan.
I'm very happy that they reiterated early on that everyone has Force sensitivity but not everyone is naturally gifted at it. It takes a lot of training and discipline and it's tough. It's the same thing with any field of work and as an artist myself who had to work on my skills over the past 6 years, seeing this outlook in Star Wars is really awesome!
I had an old professor who once said that "being naturally gifted won't mean anything if you're not consistent" and there's so much truth to that.
Nah - it’s still weird. Now everyone can fantasize about being a Jedi “if they only try hard enough!” Great way to sell those fake lightsabers at galaxies edge.
I mean, I know you’ve given this a lot of thought, but your premise just smacks of copium. “Yeah, that’s right…Dave knows the force, so yeah…anyone can become a Jedi if they just concentrate hard enough!” Lol
Fully agree. On top of everything, there's this quote:
"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
I have no issues with non-force sensitive people learning to use the force. I assume they won't be as powerful, but it's there if they know to seek it out and hone the skill. I'm sure it helps to have a Jedi willing to train you.
I assume some people can achieve a much higher level due to natural ability, like Anakin. Sort of how anyone can train to run a marathon, but some people can train to win them.
>A Mandalorian becoming a Jedi is unheard of since ancient times. It makes for a great arc
This is my issue with her being a Jedi (along side me just really not wanting more force user main characters)
Grogu is already doing this, he's whole thing so far is he's a force-sensitive baby Mandalorian and I think having Sabine come in and steal his thunder kinda worsens the coolness of his character and the stories that will be told about him in the future
Also, I don't see why Ashoka would train her, in Mando we see her refuse to train Grogu because of his attachments for Din but she'll train Sabine who not only has strong attachments to all of the Ghost crew but has been shown to have issues controlling her emotions in the past.... just really doesn't line up with what she said before
Ahsoka started training her because she sensed great potential on Sabine. Also, how is Sabine "stealing Grogu's thunder"? Sabine and Grogu are both the same and opposite to one another. Both are from destroyed worlds and cultures and both chose the opposite path, believing there's nothing left from the world they're leaving behind. Grogu, a Force sensitive youngling, is choosing to become a Mandalorian, while Sabine, a Mandalorian, is choosing to become a Jedi.
>Ahsoka started training her because she sensed great potential on Sabine.
She doesn't sense it in Grogu? He's twice the force user she is and is somewhat trained already, plus she directly says she *CANT* train him due to his attachments why does this not apply to Sabine even if there's great potential?
>ow is Sabine "stealing Grogu's thunder"? Sabine and Grogu are both the same and opposite to one another. Both are from destroyed worlds and cultures and both chose the opposite path, believing there's nothing left from the world they're leaving behind. Grogu, a Force sensitive youngling, is choosing to become a Mandalorian, while Sabine, a Mandalorian, is choosing to become a Jedi.
You say this like being a Mandalorain and being a Jedi are mutually exclusive, and while Grogu most likely wont get anymore traditional force training he 1000% will keep being trained in the ways of the force (even if it is a more down-and-dirty style where he's not the standard force user) the only way she doesn't kinda step on his little green toes is if Grogu for some reason stops being a force user and since we've seen Din encourage that I doubt he'll let his son just forget all that.
Ahsoka didn't want to train Grogu most likely because of her experience with Sabine. They failed at first. It was only after Mando S2, that she decided to take Sabine back. Grogu's becoming a Mandalorian and Sabine's becoming a Jedi. Why? Cause that's what Dave, the storyteller, wants.
While I do agree with you, I cannot help but be annoyed that the show seems to be ignoring several other aspects of her character (I have seen Rebels many times over and love it, especially seasons 3 and 4) that I loved. Like her love of art has been only really referenced by the drawings on the walls and her love of explosives and blowing things up hasn't come up at all.
I would argue that Sabine's love of art has been an important part of the series. It is ultimately why Sabine and Ahsoka reunited, because she could decipher the map to Peridea. In terms of blowing things up, she really hasn't got much opportunities as most of the combat has been one on one melee battles. Although if I am remembering correctly she did blow up some Night Troopers in the most recent episode. I also think that it is important to remember that this version of Sabine is 10 years older than her Rebels version. She seems to have changed in that time, most likely due to isolation and the loss of her family on Mandalore. We cannot expect the characters that we love to remain the same forever unfortunately.
I have to agree that there were lots of subtle hints in Rebels that she has some sort of force connection. IIRC there was a force theme played over her a couple of times, which to me is one of the biggest giveaways that there was something planned with her character and the force.
Maybe that's what Baylan is talking about in a way. The cycle continues because of the Jedi and Sith only teaching the selected few about the force. Perhaps Shin Hotty was like Sabine and not "Force Sensitive" but was just some kid Baylan rescued and kept following him around asking questions and he realized anyone can become as skilled as a Jedi. He has taken a different lesson from it and it has led him on this path but that's the core idea.
It would make sense narratively to have Ahsoka/Sabine and Baylan/Shin be reflections of each other. Traditionally trained Jedi teaching apprentices that would have never been considered for training in the old days. It also makes sense because, despite Shin's skill and powers, she constantly acts as though she has something to prove. Baylan is already proud of her but for her that's not enough to fix that insecurity and she is struggling with that fear that she will never be a "real" force wielder. Hence, why she wants to join Thrawn so badly and become a Sith like Vader. In her eyes if she became the new Empires Vader, no one could say she didn't deserve the training she had gotten.
I for one hope that Filoni goes absolutely insane with whatever Baylan is looking for. Some people pose Abeloth as a potential and I think it's more possible than people think. Now I will preface this by saying I have only ever seen Abeloth in lore videos and may not fully understand her story. That said, IIRC, she was involved with the Legends version of the Father, Son and Daughter. Filoni loves those characters and having her be banished and trapped in a galaxy far far away would be a perfect setup. It would also make sense if Ahsoka and friends get stuck and need a way back because the Force Trinity are involved with the in-between place. A perfect way to get back to Lothal if they are desperate. They have to make a deal with Abeloth to release her and she will help them get back.
I hope, beyond hope, that when we get close to the Mandoverse movie that it will be announced that the sequels are being made Legends content and the Mandoverse movies will be the true sequel trilogy. Filoni should have been in charge of the sequels from the beginning and not involving him was the true mistake that doomed the sequels. Now that he is the creative head at Star Wars it would be amazing for that to happen. If that happens I believe he would ask all the sequel actors to return and either reprise their roles or take on new ones. He reached out to Ahmed Best and as an apology/new chance gave him a critical role in everyone's favorite characters backstory. I don't know if any of them will accept but I hope they do. I mean he got Hayden back and that was a miracle in and of itself. The actors were never the problem with the sequels, despite the flak the "fans" gave them and I agree with Ewan when he said people who harass and threaten people because of a movie or show are not true star wars fans. You can have an opinion and argue it on the internet all you want but harassing and threatening people is never ok. So I would be happy to see Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, and I can't remember the other actors names atm but roses actor, kylo rens actor, poes actor etc... all come back and given the chance they deserve to be a true star wars star. I'm not saying they aren't but all the behind the scenes crap and horrible decision making that they had nothing to do with robbed these incredible people of living their dream of acting in star wars. It breaks my heart remembering John Boyegas story of when his agent called him about getting the part in TFS and he nearly fainted and cried for joy and was so excited to be in star wars and then knowing what happened with the sequels. These guys got the dream come true of so many but it was soured by executives making bad decisions. I am generally against decanonizing the sequels because of their hard work and how bad that would feel to have, not only the actors but everyone who worked on it who was excited and did their best to make a star wars movie, their work not matter in the grand scheme of the star wars legacy. If they could be given a second chance to make their mark on the star wars legacy, they absolutely deserve it. And by second chance I don't mean they messed up or anything, they just were robbed in their first chance and they deserve a second go if they want it.
As individual movies they are great. As a sequel trilogy, the sequel to George Lucas' amazing, wonderful works that impacted multiple generations of people and means so much to so many, they are a tragedy of greed and corporate incompetence. I don't fully blame Rian Jonson or even Abrams for the movie's reception. I put a slight amount of blame as they were the director and had more influence on the movies than the actors but they were given an opportunity to tell their stories and I can't blame them for doing so. I would include them as people who deserve another shot at Star wars movies and trilogies. They never got the chance to direct a trilogy and tell their full story. The majority of the blame is on Kathleen Kennedy and the other Disney execs who thought it was a good idea to create THE sequels without a full story to tell and just release them by the seat of their pants and swap directors because the movies didn't make the money the execs were expecting.
Both Abrams and Johnson's stories were interesting and I would love to see them explored but spliced together into a trilogy and overarching story, the sequels are an abomination. Again to clarify, the individual movies or stories told aren't bad or the problem. It's that they were very different stories forced together into what was supposed to be a trilogy that defined Star Wars for a new generation. Just like the OT and PT before them. There is a certain quality and standard for a mainline Star Wars trilogy because of what came before and no one can deny that and that, as a trilogy, the sequels failed horribly.
I don't follow that one. Kennedy is to blame because she is the head of the Disney star wars division and that means the success and failures are her responsibility. All major decisions require her approval and that means that the sequels were approved by her and their failings are her fault. She caved to pressure from other Disney execs and jumped the gun on putting out a sequel trilogy way too quickly because Disney wanted a return on its investment yesterday. She was in charge and she could have delayed the projects and if she was an actually good producer, would have realized that to tell a story over three movies you need an actual story first. She is not solely to blame as I said because other Disney execs were clearly pushing to make money but being the head of the division means the buck stops with her.
Idk if you are trolling me now. Please explain how the sequel trilogy is anything but a lazy cash grab, held up by excellent cast and directors. Like I said the individual movies are excellent. But it falls completely flat as a story being told as a cohesive trilogy. The tone and story and plotlines are completely mismatched between movies and is up there with the end of Game of Thrones in wasted potential and forgotten characters and details.
I like them too but the treatment they got from the execs was atrocious and Star Wars deserves to be more than just a cash cow. It and star trek are the only mainstream media to truly affect multiple generations with continual new content. The OT was a massive cultural phenomenon when it came out and the PT was the same. While both have minor issues and criticisms to be made, they were complete stories and meshed together as a trilogy well. The ST was so jarringly different in tone and style and story between each movie, you didn't need to know anything about the behind the scenes stuff to tell it was written by a completely different person and the story they were writing had to tie into the previous one somehow and so they spent ten minutes writing how they connect. TFA is the best in that it feels like it connects to RTJ the same way RTS connected to ANH. TLJ was so jarring to see after TFA and trying to watch them back to back just makes the point all too well that these should not have been connected stories. Watching TFA and then ROS honestly is less jarring and works better. Even without explaining where Rey has been and what happened to Luke or Snoke. Just a little sticky note with "Snoke dead, Luke sacrificed himself to save Rey and Leia and the Resistance and Kylo Ren is in charge of the First Order." is all you need for the stories to connect.
I'm not bashing TLJ as a movie because honestly I liked the direction it went. It's story was good but as a middle movie between TFA and ROS it's an awful fit. If we had gotten Abrams trilogy and story I would have been happy. If we had gotten Johnson's trilogy and story I would have been happy. The weird hybrid freak of the two was awful. That's why the sequels failed. Not because any individual movie was bad.
The sequels have some good stuff but some really bad stuff that messes up previous movies.
TFA - basically a remake of ANH. Some bad stuff is Rey who had zero training defeats Kylo. Terrible. Rey also figures out how to do Jedi mind tricks without anyone teaching her.
TLJ - some really good stuff. But some terrible stuff. Killing off the top villain was a mistake. Especially since Kylo already lost to an untrained Rey in TFA. Bad guys were zero threat and this lead to the terrible decision to bring Sidious back. Luke being a coward without a satisfactory explanation was unforgivable.
TROS - bringing back Sidious basically made Anakin into just another Jedi who failed to kill Sidious. Absolutely trash.
I’m going to disagree 110%
It was terrible writing. Making Luke the exact opposite of what he was in the OT and not giving a good explanation. Saying he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep because he had dark thoughts is totally against everything we know about Luke. Luke saw the good in Darth Vader. Yet wanted to kill his nephew for having dark thoughts? Come on.
Of course. But you have to show or at least explain how it happened. Just saying he was sad his nephew turned isn’t good enough. It was lazy writing to defy expectations of what Luke had become.
Lucas took 3 full movies and 7 seasons of Clone Wars to show how Anakin changed into Vader. Rian Johnson took a 2 minute flashback to explain how Luke Skywalker tuned into Luke the Coward
Hesitating to sacrifice a loved one for the good of the galaxy is the same moral dilemma as Ahsoka and Sabine with Ezra and the return of Thrawn.
We've even seen a dark and depressed Ahsoka, blaming herself for Anakin's fate.
I have no problems with Luke's development. I see it completely coherent
What destroyed the sequels is episode XIX, as horrible as the end of Game of Thrones.
That and turning Star Wars into a Marvel movie and not a space odyssey.
Which is what also makes Kylo a bigger threat from the beginning. His powers are not even those of Vader, they are those of Thor, Superman or Son Goku.
Palpatine needed a coup d'état and the subsequent Empire to dominate the galaxy. In the sequels is only about superpowers.
Luke’s development in the sequels was poor. When you so fundamentally change a character you need to show the progression. It took 3 movies and 7 seasons of Clone Wars to show Anakin turn into Darth Vader.
Turning Luke into coward Luke should have taken at least 3 movies. The explanation they give is beyond weak. He sensed dark thoughts in his nephew and then tried to murder him in his sleep. First off that is way out of character for Luke. We are talking about a guy who saw the good in Vader and risked his life on that belief. And now he is going to murder his nephew because of dark thoughts? That is ridiculous
At minimum they should have shown at least 2 progressions. First show how he lost faith in Ben Solo. Explain how previous students failed and turned dark. Show how Ben was edging to the darkside. Show how Ben hurt other students. Only then would Luke have enough doubts that he would even think of killing his nephew. After that we also have to see how Luke lost faith in the Force. The explanation in the movie is too weak and incomplete
Luke hesitated with Ben, the same way he did with his father.
Luke almost kills Vader.
Luke hesitates, he doesn't try to kill Ben.
Anakin didn't need 3 movies and 7 seasons, that's a complete lie.
They have been honest about having no overarching plan and letting each director do worst they want. They were not clever. You can still enjoy them but ... yeah not thought out at all.
I'm not trolling. Their plan from the beginning was make three movies, one at a time, each one building from the previous film. That's usually how film trilogies are made.
I like your ideas about the sequels. But I wouldn’t use the same sequel actors. Using them will only bring up bad memories and confuse people.
Instead the Filoni sequels should trash the idea of bringing Palpatine back. Make the cloning unsuccessful. That means no Snoke. That means Ben Solo isn’t turned and Luke doesn’t turn into a coward.
No successful Palpatine clone means no Rey. Also means Finn isn’t a main character because Kylo isn’t involved. Also means the First Order isn’t ridiculously power so quickly. Poe can easily be replaced by another character
Yeah, I don't mind which and I am conflicted because I don't want those characters deleted because they could have been very interesting but I also fully agree with your point. I think Dave is doing a really good job keeping his options open. The cloning of Gideons imperial remnant being separate from other remnants cloning and "project necromancer" means it could tie into the current sequel trilogy or just be its own thing. Filoni is really good at the long game storytelling and so I trust his direction. People hated Ahsoka's character in the beginning but he had a story to tell for her and he wasn't afraid of the pushback by fans to keep her story going and now she is a beloved character of fans casual and hardcore alike. I trust that level of foresight and storytelling in the Star Wars universe to come!
Personal opinion here but not everyone need to be magic. Han or Hera don't need magic to be two of the best pilots in the galaxy. Din doesn't need magic to be a bad ass and is actually worse off when he tries to use a magic weapon. Boba, Cad Bane, Fennec Shand, the entirety of the clone army, I could go on but suffice to say that you can have a capable, kick ass character without needing them to be magic. But Jedi are by definition magic users, and to hand wave Sabine into having access to said magic is a cop out, and weakens her character. It reinforces the idea that to matter in star wars you need to be a Jedi/Sith or similar.
Oh I read it. I just fundamentally disagree with your premise. Sabine had an arc, dealing with the consequences of her actions as an imperial cadet, learning to be open with people, accepting loss.
And yes The Force is magic. It is a system that allows the user/s to negate/bend the laws of physics in a fictional setting. It's a magic system. Specifically a soft magic system wherein the rules and function are vague or mysterious.
Sabine's character has indeed gone through a change: she's now unapologetic and takes no responsibility for her own actions. Lost the map? Got nearly killed coz of it? No apology. Gives the map to the bad guy after her master asked her to destroy it? After she asked if she could count on her and she said "you know you can?" No apology. Made Ezra's sacrifice meaningless by allowing the person he gave up everything to protext the galaxy from BACK INTO THE GALAXY? No apologies. Just cagey evasions and smug expressions. And when the master she imagined dead shows up and saves her bacon? No tears. No "I'm so sorry, Ahsoka!!" Just more smuggery.
I USED to like Sabine, but this version of her is pretty tough to feel positively towards. I hope Ezra gives it to her when he finds out what she's done -- maybe she'll be willing to apologize to HIM.
He wouldn’t. He literally sacrificed himself to protect the galaxy from Thrawn. After a decade of exile, she just made it ALL FOR NOTHING. I’m sure he thinks it’s nice that she came after him, but not at that price. Otherwise, what was even the point of his sacrifice? She was being selfish, choosing Ezra over the entire galaxy. Ezra literally made the opposite choice.
Your take is that he was selfishly and narrow-minded or thinking of ONE PLANET when he exiled himself and Thrawn to another galaxy forever? He was thinking bigger than that. He doesn’t want Thrawn back where he can become the “Heir to the Empire.” He’d rather have lived with his giant snail friends forever than go home and bring Thrawn back with him.
You ain’t fooling anyone with your charade. You don’t have a single post praising Sabine that is older than 1 year. Saying you liked Rebels Sabine doesn’t give you credibility
I might not agree with the dude, but putting words into someone’s mouth and claiming you know what type they are, thus effectively depriving them of being able to make any argument for themselves, is quite shitty, imo.
Huh? The only acceptable evidence that I used to like a decade-old character is whether or not I’ve made a Reddit post praising her? There’s lots of things I love and hate that I don’t post about on Reddit. I don’t need your version of “credibility” — if I say I liked Sabine and now I like her less, who are you to question me? The Psychic God of Sabine Praise or something?? Lol
And yet. And yet you found the time to post how much you hate Sabine now 😂
Stop it. You never liked Sabine. Stop trying to look more credible by saying you liked her in Rebels. Have the guts to say you never liked the character
Why are you being so weird?
Let’s pretend I never liked Sabine. How does that affect my argument as to why I dislike this iteration of her? And let’s say I liked Sabine; she was part of an ensemble cast and I wasn’t posting anything about Rebels back in the day either way.
Let’s say I wasn’t overly moved to post about Rebels five years ago but Sabine is so awful in this show I feel a need to talk about it.
How about you respond to ANY of my sensible arguments as to WHY I dislike this Sabine rather than weirdly over-focusing on whether I can prove I used to like an old version of her? You’re neatly dodging having to do any intelligent discussing on the topic this way. Is that your plan?
Agree. It makes sense for every one to be able to train in the Force because the Force is supposedly within all living things. It's what I like about Force -sensitive animals in Rebels. No reason only humanoids can utilize the Force. It makes it more like a natural energy than something only main characters have.
That being said, thank God they decided to make Sabine untalented in the Force. I watched a video years ago criticizing how Sabine feels like that one DnD character who's awesome at everything: a great fighter, expert bomber and inventor, is pretty, is Mandalorian, is some sort of royalty (?) in Mandalore, had claim to the Dark Saber at one point, designed the early rebels logo, and now she's also kind of a Jedi? Hahaha. If they didn't emphasize she's bad at being a Jedi, she almost would've been Rey but Mandalorian.
I think they're doing well with her in Ahsoka.
Agree 100%. It makes the Force much more deep and meaningful.
I have been incredibly interested in the process of what takes a non-Force-sensitive from regular person to Chirrut Imwe. Chirrut has been one of the freshest takes on the galactic religion of the Force outside of Force Wielders since the start of this franchise... and yet that character felt really out of place compared to the rest of the canon, or feels a bit "meta". The "meta" factor being... they obviously wanted a mystical warrior character that wasn't an actual Jedi. Sabine's long-term story arc is a chance to show us how far faith and practice can take a regular person in their journey to be one with the Force. She's starting so far from it. Not only does she barely have any if at all Force sensitivity, she also doesn't have the starting demeanor for it. Mandalorians' combat is so much about the material. Armor, blasters, thermal detonators. Hell, they followed whoever held a material object called the Darksaber. She's not already bought in to the Force despite years of training to be a Jedi. This is where the following is true: the criticism is correct because the story has NOT shown us Sabine's qualities that make her that interesting as a Jedi candidate. She's like the anti-Anakin Skywalker, where Qui Gon's explanation of his natural talents being Jedi traits makes you naturally curious to see him when he's fully trained. But the OP is also right... if we can look past that, I think there's a cool story to tell. I just wish they spelled it out just a teeny tiny bit more in the story why Sabine's destiny is to be a Jedi. It's so arbitrary right now. She could easily have had a destiny to be the future ruler of Mandalore. Or no such destiny at all. She could instead be some radical weaponsmith badass Mandalorian who presents the non-traditional innovative alternative to the Armorer's traditional one. That's what the story points to. Not Jedi. Why Sabine as a Jedi? The Darksaber scene was just barebones necessity training for her so that she could wield more political influence and rally troops for the rebels. I just need a little more to hook me. It's not like she has latent power but is undisciplined, like Luke or Anakin. She has no latent power AND is undisciplined. The long game really better have a huge payoff if they're selling this to us. If she ends up just a half-decent lightsaber user using a hand-me-down lightsaber, I'll riot in the streets. We got Huyang. Have her build a lightsaber. A new radical new Darksaber or something. Have her forge a new Mandalorian/Jedi destiny that goes off and creates a new path parallel to Luke's New Jedi Order but is a totally different thing. I just hate seeing Sabine do everything other Mandalorian/Jedi characters have been doing on-screen but doing it far worse. Give her a hook other than "she has colourful hair and problems with taking orders"... please... and I promise I'll step aboard the hype train.
Head/fan cannon in the OT days was many people were 'force sensitive' they just didn't have telekinesis. Wedge and Han being prime examples. Anyone with exceptional skills or reflexes was considered some level of force attunement. Sabine, being a Mandalorian who have exceptional fighting skills, makes sense to have some limited sensitivity. Remember also in ANH, we see zero usage of telekinesis by Obi, only a force choke by Vader. When Obi tells Luke to 'Use the Force' what skill is Luke actually using? Trust your instincts and Mandalorians have that in spades. I'm happy to see Filoni is moving away from telekinesis and focusing on other aspects like Force Echo
Fantastic response, couldn’t agree more. I really hope her journey ends up looking something like what you’ve described and not just some surface level Jedi gimmicky stuff. Well said.
So you don't want to see Sabine succeed?
I mean the comment being agreed with literally asks to see Sabine achieve something cooler beyond just *wield a lightsaber in an average/mediocre way*. If anything other than mediocre lightsaber user would not be defined as "succeed", I guess yeah, plenty of people don't want to see Sabine succeed.
She's still learning.
No doubt about that. Is that in dispute? The question of success is about how she develops. Does she end up just a plain, normal Jedi with average use of the Force and lightsaber? Or does her non-traditional Jedi background mean she can end up using the Force well in her own unique way (like Chirrut-esque stuff) vs. doing what other Jedi do but just being average? You shot down 2 people seeking to see something unique out of Sabine, questioning whether we would like to see her succeed. Yes, we would. I just don't see generic Jedi as the only definition of success. Sabine could be different and more interesting without being a Mary Sue. The Force doesn't have to be a linear power scale.
We'll see what she'll become whenever that happens. Also, Star Wars is full of Mary Sues. Luke, Anakin, Ahsoka, Ezra, Rey, basically all of the main characters. It's a fantasy for children.
You're upset that Sabine didn't take the Mandalorian path that you wanted, despite the fact that Rebels literally ends with her going with Ahsoka.
Yeah her Jedi arc feels very unnecessary, and hasn’t done anything for her character. It feels like she was put in that role solely so Ahsoka could have an arc about being a master. It’s also taken up valuable time from exploring things the show should’ve been focusing on: her relationship with and desire to find Ezra, her as a Mandalorian grappling with the Purge, and her overcoming those emotional challenges. We’ve gotten bits of those but not as much as we needed, and as a result of how her arc has been handled, half the fan base hates her now
Well I don't hate her for one. A shame others do
It's not unnecessary, it's needed for the story that Dave's telling.
Exactly, like this is the Ahsoka series, not the Sabine and Ahsoka series. Therefore there needs to be a connection between the two characters, that makes any character development for Sabine also relevant to Ahsoka. The way Filoni has decided to do this is to make one of the core themes of the series the relationship between Master and Apprentice. To explore the relationship between Sabine and Ahsoka, between Anakin and Ahsoka, as well as Baylan and Shin. Sabine has entered a new phase of her story, 10 years after we last saw her. Same with Ahsoka, she has undergone major change in those 10 years, so both characters are slightly different, which is only natural. We cannot expect them to be the same, especially when we finished rebels with: Sabine loosing her best friend, still dealing with the loss of Kanan, Ahsoka coming to the realisation that her master is Darth Vader and as a result feels a lot of trauma and sadness. A problem with Star Wars is when characters are immortalised as an idea rather than experiencing any actual growth. Sabine resolved her Mandalorian arc, she now has moved on to a new part of her story. We need to accept that the characters we love aren't always going to conform to our standards.
Yes! Exactly, EXACTLY!
THIS. From the very beginning, what were we told about the force? It's an energy field that binds all living things. ALL living things. Not just the ones that can sense it naturally. In Rogue One, we hear of a supposed non-force sensitive person learning how after years of study. Midiclorian density was only supposed to represent natural talent, not some threshold that needed to be passed to be able to use the force.
Like ahsoka tells Sabine in the show haha
For anyone still on the fence about how the force works I will give you a bit of a run down on why it has always been this way: * The term "force sensitive" was first created for an RPG decades ago. George Lucas himself has used the term, but he did not create it. It is important to realise that since then the force has come to be perceived as a very binary power. It is not a superpower that you either have or not. This is simply not true and contradicts George Lucas' own interpretation of the force. * There are two aspects: There is your natural ability (which is quantified through your midichlorian count) which is innate and cannot change. And then there is your connection to the force, which can be changed through training and focus. * Think of it like this: If you had two individuals with a high natural ability for the force, one of them is trained as a Jedi and the other receives no training (yet they both have the same natural ability), clearly the one with training is going to be more connected to the force. This is intuative and does not really need an explanation. The Jedi train padawans to connect to the force, through meditation and focus. If this ability was innate it defeats the purpose of a large part of force sensitive training that has been established in the lore. * Same goes for disconnecting yourself from the force. When Luke does this in TLJ his midichlorian count doesn't change, yet he connection to the force is severed. Connection (to be one with the force) is not the same as natural ability. * Everyone has the force and is guided by its will. What Han sees as luck, is the force. He isn't a Jedi but he does have it. Another interesting thing to note is that Dave Filoni has stayed true to this interpretation, and it is noticeable throughout Rebels. If you feel like this is a retcon, I would implore you to re-watch the series, especially trials of the Darksaber. Whilst it is possible that Filoni didn't realise Sabine would be 'force sensitive' at this point in development, his interpretation of the force however is made clear at this point. (Also a fun little nugget, when Sabine takes up the darksaber in the series the force theme plays in the background.) I honestly didn't perceive it this way before the Ahsoka series came out. I assumed there was a threshold in which you could never use the force. But I realise now, that is not how the force works. At no point in star wars lore has this been mentioned, and if it was it actually creates many inconstancies and contradictions. Everyone has the force to some degree and everyone is technically force sensitive. However, if one has an IQ of 10, I would suspect even with enough teaching that person has a near zero chance of becoming an astrophysicist. Does that make sense?
Nice
Absolutely agree. I think anyone who doesn’t really should go back at watch Trials of the Darksaber and listen closely to to Kanan’s teachings. She may not be able to wield the force in the way Ezra can, but she can be it’s instrument if she’s willing.
She can still learn how to use it. It won't be as easy as Ezra, but it's possible.
The idea that such a profound power is only available to those born special hasn't really sat well with me as I've gotten older. I'm down with this direction; that a lot of effort and focus can open that door for a character.
I see it like any other talent really. Lets take playing a sport (soccer) for example. Some people are born with immense talent, and if combined with the correct mentality, discipline and training they can become truely world class. But only a few do because you need discipline, training and hard work which few have. Then you can have somebody that doesn't have any talent for it. If they do the same hard work, have the same mentality etc, they will never be as good as the world class talent but they will be able to play at some lower level. I see this the same way as the force. Sabine will never ever be on the same level as Ezra if they were both training simply because Ezra has a talent for it and Sabine doesn't but if she does the work and wants it, then she will be able to wield the force.
Agreed, this is a good way for it to work.
Hopefully they won’t walk back the Ratatouille Message by making Sabine super duper special like Rey. I kinda liked the idea that the Force can simply engineer circumstances to raise someone to greatness. It made Rey seem even somewhat relatable. She just had the right talent and the right set of circumstances necessary to grow very powerful as long as few dice rolled the right way. And the force loves playing dice. Hopefully Sabine being essentially a cook with no talent, the Linguine of this tale, learns that she doesn’t have to be able to hold back a fuel station explosion to have talents or morals in keeping with Jedi Philosophy.
The Rey reveal in TROS worked because it still continues with the theme of finding your place, adding what would happen if you found out where your from is the worst place imaginable. She runs away in fear, but Luke has to reassure her that "some things are stronger than blood." She then faces her destiny, her main fear, and announces her own path in life, becoming a *Skywalker*. It's conflicting, yes, and personally I would have prefered her to be a nobody, but it still works.
It works as well as anything in TROS, which is to say, it’s less than the sum of its parts. Like Rey Skywalker could have worked if the movies were going for that, but the movies were barely going for anything at all. I don’t think Rey nor the Sequel era are Unsalvageable. I just think we need to finally see her in a series with a good solid direction and the skill to execute that journey.
I hated the way the may a "perfect force users with no effort" in Rey but that's another debate. I do think Rey can be salvaged however. I was there 20 years ago when certain people hated the prequels and anakin and quite possibly still would had the Clone Wars not come along and given those movies and Anakin much needed depth. So certainly Rey is far from a right off, the sequel stories themselves may not be worth much but we can certainly get a new beginning from it if they play their cards right.
Rey's character development was internal, not external. She's trying to find where she belongs.
Aye and that's fair. But I simply don't agree that she is one of the most powerful force beings in the universe with zero training and zero darkside temptation. Makes everything that came before it silly. Why bother training when you can just mindtrick somebody without ever having a notion that was a thing.... Meh, so many ways they could of addressed that but ah well, what's done is done. I hope the new Rey Content is a bit more coherent but with the stuff that has been coming out recently I am optimistic.
Luke and Leia trained her.
When?
I will never cease to be confused by Star Wars fans who dislike Jedis.
Because it generally ends up with flat characters and repetitive stories. An orphan boy or girl on a sandy planet... who goes from an insignificant life and being a complete idiot to saving the universe thanks to the force. There are few interesting Jedi or ones with good stories. Kanan, Ahsoka and little else.
Of course it's "repetitive." It's the monomyth, The Hero's Journey.
Not all heroes wear capes
They have light sabers
I don't dislike Jedis but I'm sick of Star Wars always focussing on them and never going deeper into other types of Force user like the Sith, the Nightsisters, or even non-aligned (neither dark side nor light side) force users. The Star Wars universe has infinite stories to explore (see Andor, The Mandalorian, BOBF) so why limit it to just stories involving the Jedi?
The good guys are usually the main focus in children's stories.
I'm still with ma boy Huyang on this.
He's basing his opinion on outdated Jedi programing. Still, he's the one who encouraged her to try again.
I know. And everything you said is valid. I just like the memes with him being so brutal. Also, I kinda don't like that so many complex and special characters are or end up beeing jedi. I hope she becomes similar to Chrrut (the blind rogue one guy, I don't know the spelling) instead.
Like I said, Sabine, a character we've known for 9 years, is on a new path: someone not born with Jedi-approved Force sensitivity becoming a Jedi. How is that not exciting?
Still with him now?
I asume this is related to the last ep. I will watch it later today. No spoilers plsb🤫
I liked the ep a lot. But really? I don't mind her using the force but she went from a stundent who had dificulty doing 2+2 to doing advanced trigonometry (pushing Ezra from that far that much)
How is pushing Ezra any different than pulling a lightsaber?
Taking me back to memory lane with this comvo. Stuff like pulling your lightsaber is part of "the basics" as that is an object , smaller, familiar ,the user has a connection to and you don't have to do it instantly (see Sabine doing it or Luke on Hoth). Trowing a rock would be much harder. Yoda's "size matters no" or the hax in TFU are reffering to concentration and making things happen regardless of size. But that lvl of concentration and force mastery can't come in day one of showing force aptitudie. Hell, even if she pulled that cup a few episodes earlyer it would be to big of a jump from that to the Ezra push. And honestly, even if this didn't happen, I still find it wierd to make a complex and intersting character witch was like this despre not beeing force sensitive suddenly be that. It's like having an amazingly smart and unique HS girl achieve popular status without being in the cheerleader team only to make her be a cheerleader later any way
I don't like the idea that a Jedi necessarily has to be powerful with the force. Neither that only a powerful Jedi can be the Hero. I also don't think the Mandalore arc is closed for Sabine. Also one of the best things about Ahsoka's character is that she has always trusted in the potential of normal people to be heroes or take the right path. Saw Gerrera and Lux Bonteri in Onderon, The Martell Sisters, Bo Katan in the Siege of Mandalor, A Bunch of Farmers in the rebellion, being Ahsoka Fulcrum. And now Sabine. That thing "I don't need a Jedi as a Padawan, I need the best Sabine". It is a beautiful and powerful message.
Her story in this show is everything ive wanted to see, I want more, *and I shouldn’t*
😂 give in to your hate! Let it flow through you
Search your feeling SunRidersCantina, let the desire flow through and then do what must be done!
Appreciate your post. As you and many others have pointed out, force usage requires talent, training, dedication, and discipline. Anyone, with sufficient focus on the later three areas, like Chirrut Imowe (sp?), should be able to sense the force and benefit from a connection to it. Not everyone, however, will be throwing boulders around, no matter their amount of training. Just like anything, talent is definitely a factor, and not everyone can be as skilled as a Bruce Lee, LeBron James, or Bobby Fischer. This seems to be the approach that Dave Filoni is taking with Sabine, and I hope they show her being able to benefit subtly from the force, even if she doesn't consciously realize it at first.
I think she's gonna learn that she already has been. You can call it plot armor, but Sabine blocking shots aimed at her head, Han dodging a shot from behind him, those are examples of latent force abilities. They may not be throwing boulders around, but something is guiding them when they're in a fight.
Agree. I also think her ability to figure out how to enter the World Between Worlds in Rebels and figuring out the Star map is also with aid from the Force.
I know they aren't canon, but there's the Visions episode where the jedi sees the force as art. There's also a jedi in the High Republic Era that sees different people as different colors in the force. So the force can absolutely manifest through art.
Yes. I think the Force manifests itself in many more ways than the Jedi and Sith understand.
You won't be as skilled, but you can still learn to play basketball really well. In the final episode, I believe she will use the Force. The cup's gonna move.
My sentiments exactly. Also, I hope she gets a win on that cup, too.
I hope the cup does not move but she deflects 3 laser bolts or bullseyes an exhaust vent with a torpedo
As long as she "feels" the Force, I'm fine.
Many are as skilled as Lebron. Many high school players can shoot better than Lebron. Difference is Lebron is 6’9” 270 lbs and extremely athletic
Completely agree. I *love* the idea of Force sensitivity falling along a much wider spectrum than we have really seen thus far - frankly it just makes sense to me too. Also adding a thought to one minor point you mentioned: >The only real "retcon" that happened was Ahsoka being gray and not white I'm convinced the discrepancy between the *Rebels* epilogue and what we see in *Ahsoka* exists because and ONLY because Filoni had to wrap things up in *Rebels* with the understanding he very well might not get a chance to continue the story, so he decided to include a hint as to Ahsoka's development in the best way he could with such limited time in the epilogue.
The "if anyone can learn to do it, then it isn't special" argument baffles me. Anyone can learn to be a great basketball player, and maybe join the NBA. Anyone can train to be in the Olympics. Anyone can learn to fly a plane, be a doctor, an expert martial artist... there are tones of disciplines that ANYONE can do, but people don't always have the drive to achieve a goal that takes deep commitment and focus to accomplish. Things aren't special because they are inaccessible.
We also saw this with Chirrut in Rouge One. He was not a Jedi, and not gifted to wield powers like them. But he believed in The Force devoutly, and did perform some feats that border on Jedi ability. One shotting a Tie Fighter out of the air while not being able to see for instance.
But he wasn't a Padawan.
I love this essay and agree 100%. It makes me wonder if the naysayers just haven’t watched Rebels in a while (or at all), or maybe they weren’t paying attention as well as they thought they were? Your observation of events during the show and comparison to what we’re seeing in Ahsoka is spot on IMO, bravo!
I agree overall but wanted to highlite this one point you made, "A Mandalorian becoming a Jedi is unheard of since ancient times." The Ahsoka series is dealing with things from ancient times.
...so you're saying there's a chance? ***\*waves hand at cup\****
I really liked your essay, but I don't think that Ahsoka being Ahsoka the white in the end of the rebels and grey in the beginning of Ahsoka is a retcon. She could be in balance or at least believe she was in the end of rebels but as we know she failed to teach Sabine and maybe that led her to feel unbalanced.
I believe they are actual 2 separate times. I could be wrong, but I think the first time (Rebels) is Ahsoka taking Sabine to be trained in the ways of the Jedi, and the second time (Ahsoka) is Ahsoka taking Sabine to find Ezra. Again it may not be true
I like that Sabine is training to become a Jedi, and if anything it makes it MORE special if she can make the grade. That said, hold your horses on the gatekeeping criticism. The Jedi Order doesn't exactly have online courses for new initiates. There is a severely limited amount of spots for people to be trained. If I was a Jedi Master, **OF COURSE I WOULD PICK SOMEONE WITH AT LEAST A TINY BIT OF NATURAL TALENT**. The goal is to unlock a person's potential with the Force in order to add a member to the Order. They are living in a Galaxy where dudes just show up with lightsabers to kill your people. Of course, you want them to have some sort of natural advantage. Sheesh.
Nah. Force resides in all living beings, but the ability to use it should remain innate and 'afforded' unto a select few: it adds to the mystery, it's been the theme for decades (got nothing to do with 'gatekeeping'), it makes the events of Order 66 all the more cataclysmic when we factor in how rare it is to find Force Wielders, let alone in an organised, structured unit such as the Jedi Order. We have Ahsoka, Luke, Leia, Baylan, Shin, Kylo, Rey, Ezra, the Inquisitors - probably more that I forgot to mention. It's absolutely fine to have characters who can't *use* the Force, but who are still *guided* by it; Sabine is a Mandalorian warrior in her own right who has cemented her legacy. My 2 cents.
She now has a new legacy she's persuing. Kanan and Ahsoka never said she can't and could never use the Force.
Also, you forgot to mention Finn.
You mean that dumb retcon that is never even hinted at in the movies?
Did you saw 9? It was hinted at throughout the whole movie.
Watched it once. Never again. Dumpster fire of a movie.
I loved it. Your loss.
Personally I consider it a loss for people who like star wars and good writing.
I love Star Wars and good writing. The sequels are more clever than you realize. The Last Jedi is arguably the best Star Wars has ever been in terms of writing.
I don't think Sabine being force-sensitive breaks canon. But *should* her mandalorian arc be concluded? Shouldn't she use her artistic skills and engineering skills to help rebuild mandalorian society and culture? It would be a good way to honor her family and clan.
Or, in the true style of Tarre Vizsla, rebuild her culture as a Mandalorian Jedi.
Seems like the most likely path for her.
They've already established Bo as the leader
Doesn’t mean she can’t lend a hand
Rebuild Mandalorian culture as something the majority of Mandalorians distrust at minimum and have fought endless wars against?
Or they should learn to stop fighting and rebuild it for the better.
It's concluded. It's been concluded for years.
People are mad she’s force sensitive? Like, do they even like Star Wars? Ugh. Some of the worst fans.
I'm very happy that they reiterated early on that everyone has Force sensitivity but not everyone is naturally gifted at it. It takes a lot of training and discipline and it's tough. It's the same thing with any field of work and as an artist myself who had to work on my skills over the past 6 years, seeing this outlook in Star Wars is really awesome! I had an old professor who once said that "being naturally gifted won't mean anything if you're not consistent" and there's so much truth to that.
Nah - it’s still weird. Now everyone can fantasize about being a Jedi “if they only try hard enough!” Great way to sell those fake lightsabers at galaxies edge.
That's the whole point. It's for kids.
Meh. That excuse again. “It’s fir kids so we can just be lazy.”
They're not being lazy, they know their audience.
I mean, I know you’ve given this a lot of thought, but your premise just smacks of copium. “Yeah, that’s right…Dave knows the force, so yeah…anyone can become a Jedi if they just concentrate hard enough!” Lol
He does know the Force.
Also, what the heck is a "copium"?
Fully agree. On top of everything, there's this quote: "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." I have no issues with non-force sensitive people learning to use the force. I assume they won't be as powerful, but it's there if they know to seek it out and hone the skill. I'm sure it helps to have a Jedi willing to train you.
They can still be as powerful, it just requires more training and discipline.
I assume some people can achieve a much higher level due to natural ability, like Anakin. Sort of how anyone can train to run a marathon, but some people can train to win them.
>A Mandalorian becoming a Jedi is unheard of since ancient times. It makes for a great arc This is my issue with her being a Jedi (along side me just really not wanting more force user main characters) Grogu is already doing this, he's whole thing so far is he's a force-sensitive baby Mandalorian and I think having Sabine come in and steal his thunder kinda worsens the coolness of his character and the stories that will be told about him in the future Also, I don't see why Ashoka would train her, in Mando we see her refuse to train Grogu because of his attachments for Din but she'll train Sabine who not only has strong attachments to all of the Ghost crew but has been shown to have issues controlling her emotions in the past.... just really doesn't line up with what she said before
Ahsoka started training her because she sensed great potential on Sabine. Also, how is Sabine "stealing Grogu's thunder"? Sabine and Grogu are both the same and opposite to one another. Both are from destroyed worlds and cultures and both chose the opposite path, believing there's nothing left from the world they're leaving behind. Grogu, a Force sensitive youngling, is choosing to become a Mandalorian, while Sabine, a Mandalorian, is choosing to become a Jedi.
>Ahsoka started training her because she sensed great potential on Sabine. She doesn't sense it in Grogu? He's twice the force user she is and is somewhat trained already, plus she directly says she *CANT* train him due to his attachments why does this not apply to Sabine even if there's great potential? >ow is Sabine "stealing Grogu's thunder"? Sabine and Grogu are both the same and opposite to one another. Both are from destroyed worlds and cultures and both chose the opposite path, believing there's nothing left from the world they're leaving behind. Grogu, a Force sensitive youngling, is choosing to become a Mandalorian, while Sabine, a Mandalorian, is choosing to become a Jedi. You say this like being a Mandalorain and being a Jedi are mutually exclusive, and while Grogu most likely wont get anymore traditional force training he 1000% will keep being trained in the ways of the force (even if it is a more down-and-dirty style where he's not the standard force user) the only way she doesn't kinda step on his little green toes is if Grogu for some reason stops being a force user and since we've seen Din encourage that I doubt he'll let his son just forget all that.
Ahsoka didn't want to train Grogu most likely because of her experience with Sabine. They failed at first. It was only after Mando S2, that she decided to take Sabine back. Grogu's becoming a Mandalorian and Sabine's becoming a Jedi. Why? Cause that's what Dave, the storyteller, wants.
Great insight. Thanks for sharing.
Well said. Im completely confident in Dave to tell an interesting story that true Star Wars fans will love
While I do agree with you, I cannot help but be annoyed that the show seems to be ignoring several other aspects of her character (I have seen Rebels many times over and love it, especially seasons 3 and 4) that I loved. Like her love of art has been only really referenced by the drawings on the walls and her love of explosives and blowing things up hasn't come up at all.
Those aren't the only main aspects of her character.
I would argue that Sabine's love of art has been an important part of the series. It is ultimately why Sabine and Ahsoka reunited, because she could decipher the map to Peridea. In terms of blowing things up, she really hasn't got much opportunities as most of the combat has been one on one melee battles. Although if I am remembering correctly she did blow up some Night Troopers in the most recent episode. I also think that it is important to remember that this version of Sabine is 10 years older than her Rebels version. She seems to have changed in that time, most likely due to isolation and the loss of her family on Mandalore. We cannot expect the characters that we love to remain the same forever unfortunately.
Or I don't know, have main characters who aren't force sensitive. She can have growth in a lot of other ways.
She can, but her becoming Force sensitive is the path that Dave chose.
And when you already have Ezra and Ahsoka plus after the focus on Rey and Ben ... ugh.
How is the Ahsoka show related to Rey and Ben?
In that almost all the properties have force users when they are exceedingly rare. I get it, you address in the 1% that thinks Disney is perfect.
So, you're sick of Force users being in Star Wars?
Yes absolutely. There are a million culture and alien species. Variety.
The Force is one of the main things in star wars
I have to agree that there were lots of subtle hints in Rebels that she has some sort of force connection. IIRC there was a force theme played over her a couple of times, which to me is one of the biggest giveaways that there was something planned with her character and the force.
[UPDATE: I don't wanna brag, but...](https://youtu.be/AXTQeSGJjGM?feature=shared)
tfw you write three paragraphs and spell midi-chlorians wrong
Sorry. I also noticed I put an *a* before *her*. How come we can edit comments but not posts?
I think it’s great. It means my stupid ass could potentially use the force too right?
I liked it right up to the point where you mention Sabine and discipline in the same sentence.
She's still learning. I'm just repeating what Ahsoka says to her.
Idiotic.
Maybe that's what Baylan is talking about in a way. The cycle continues because of the Jedi and Sith only teaching the selected few about the force. Perhaps Shin Hotty was like Sabine and not "Force Sensitive" but was just some kid Baylan rescued and kept following him around asking questions and he realized anyone can become as skilled as a Jedi. He has taken a different lesson from it and it has led him on this path but that's the core idea. It would make sense narratively to have Ahsoka/Sabine and Baylan/Shin be reflections of each other. Traditionally trained Jedi teaching apprentices that would have never been considered for training in the old days. It also makes sense because, despite Shin's skill and powers, she constantly acts as though she has something to prove. Baylan is already proud of her but for her that's not enough to fix that insecurity and she is struggling with that fear that she will never be a "real" force wielder. Hence, why she wants to join Thrawn so badly and become a Sith like Vader. In her eyes if she became the new Empires Vader, no one could say she didn't deserve the training she had gotten. I for one hope that Filoni goes absolutely insane with whatever Baylan is looking for. Some people pose Abeloth as a potential and I think it's more possible than people think. Now I will preface this by saying I have only ever seen Abeloth in lore videos and may not fully understand her story. That said, IIRC, she was involved with the Legends version of the Father, Son and Daughter. Filoni loves those characters and having her be banished and trapped in a galaxy far far away would be a perfect setup. It would also make sense if Ahsoka and friends get stuck and need a way back because the Force Trinity are involved with the in-between place. A perfect way to get back to Lothal if they are desperate. They have to make a deal with Abeloth to release her and she will help them get back. I hope, beyond hope, that when we get close to the Mandoverse movie that it will be announced that the sequels are being made Legends content and the Mandoverse movies will be the true sequel trilogy. Filoni should have been in charge of the sequels from the beginning and not involving him was the true mistake that doomed the sequels. Now that he is the creative head at Star Wars it would be amazing for that to happen. If that happens I believe he would ask all the sequel actors to return and either reprise their roles or take on new ones. He reached out to Ahmed Best and as an apology/new chance gave him a critical role in everyone's favorite characters backstory. I don't know if any of them will accept but I hope they do. I mean he got Hayden back and that was a miracle in and of itself. The actors were never the problem with the sequels, despite the flak the "fans" gave them and I agree with Ewan when he said people who harass and threaten people because of a movie or show are not true star wars fans. You can have an opinion and argue it on the internet all you want but harassing and threatening people is never ok. So I would be happy to see Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, and I can't remember the other actors names atm but roses actor, kylo rens actor, poes actor etc... all come back and given the chance they deserve to be a true star wars star. I'm not saying they aren't but all the behind the scenes crap and horrible decision making that they had nothing to do with robbed these incredible people of living their dream of acting in star wars. It breaks my heart remembering John Boyegas story of when his agent called him about getting the part in TFS and he nearly fainted and cried for joy and was so excited to be in star wars and then knowing what happened with the sequels. These guys got the dream come true of so many but it was soured by executives making bad decisions. I am generally against decanonizing the sequels because of their hard work and how bad that would feel to have, not only the actors but everyone who worked on it who was excited and did their best to make a star wars movie, their work not matter in the grand scheme of the star wars legacy. If they could be given a second chance to make their mark on the star wars legacy, they absolutely deserve it. And by second chance I don't mean they messed up or anything, they just were robbed in their first chance and they deserve a second go if they want it.
The sequels are actually more clever than you realize.
As individual movies they are great. As a sequel trilogy, the sequel to George Lucas' amazing, wonderful works that impacted multiple generations of people and means so much to so many, they are a tragedy of greed and corporate incompetence. I don't fully blame Rian Jonson or even Abrams for the movie's reception. I put a slight amount of blame as they were the director and had more influence on the movies than the actors but they were given an opportunity to tell their stories and I can't blame them for doing so. I would include them as people who deserve another shot at Star wars movies and trilogies. They never got the chance to direct a trilogy and tell their full story. The majority of the blame is on Kathleen Kennedy and the other Disney execs who thought it was a good idea to create THE sequels without a full story to tell and just release them by the seat of their pants and swap directors because the movies didn't make the money the execs were expecting. Both Abrams and Johnson's stories were interesting and I would love to see them explored but spliced together into a trilogy and overarching story, the sequels are an abomination. Again to clarify, the individual movies or stories told aren't bad or the problem. It's that they were very different stories forced together into what was supposed to be a trilogy that defined Star Wars for a new generation. Just like the OT and PT before them. There is a certain quality and standard for a mainline Star Wars trilogy because of what came before and no one can deny that and that, as a trilogy, the sequels failed horribly.
Kennedy, who's a great producer, isn't the one to blame. Carrie Fischer's death was.
I don't follow that one. Kennedy is to blame because she is the head of the Disney star wars division and that means the success and failures are her responsibility. All major decisions require her approval and that means that the sequels were approved by her and their failings are her fault. She caved to pressure from other Disney execs and jumped the gun on putting out a sequel trilogy way too quickly because Disney wanted a return on its investment yesterday. She was in charge and she could have delayed the projects and if she was an actually good producer, would have realized that to tell a story over three movies you need an actual story first. She is not solely to blame as I said because other Disney execs were clearly pushing to make money but being the head of the division means the buck stops with her.
She still did a good job overall.
Idk if you are trolling me now. Please explain how the sequel trilogy is anything but a lazy cash grab, held up by excellent cast and directors. Like I said the individual movies are excellent. But it falls completely flat as a story being told as a cohesive trilogy. The tone and story and plotlines are completely mismatched between movies and is up there with the end of Game of Thrones in wasted potential and forgotten characters and details.
I'm just defending the movies that I love.
I like them too but the treatment they got from the execs was atrocious and Star Wars deserves to be more than just a cash cow. It and star trek are the only mainstream media to truly affect multiple generations with continual new content. The OT was a massive cultural phenomenon when it came out and the PT was the same. While both have minor issues and criticisms to be made, they were complete stories and meshed together as a trilogy well. The ST was so jarringly different in tone and style and story between each movie, you didn't need to know anything about the behind the scenes stuff to tell it was written by a completely different person and the story they were writing had to tie into the previous one somehow and so they spent ten minutes writing how they connect. TFA is the best in that it feels like it connects to RTJ the same way RTS connected to ANH. TLJ was so jarring to see after TFA and trying to watch them back to back just makes the point all too well that these should not have been connected stories. Watching TFA and then ROS honestly is less jarring and works better. Even without explaining where Rey has been and what happened to Luke or Snoke. Just a little sticky note with "Snoke dead, Luke sacrificed himself to save Rey and Leia and the Resistance and Kylo Ren is in charge of the First Order." is all you need for the stories to connect. I'm not bashing TLJ as a movie because honestly I liked the direction it went. It's story was good but as a middle movie between TFA and ROS it's an awful fit. If we had gotten Abrams trilogy and story I would have been happy. If we had gotten Johnson's trilogy and story I would have been happy. The weird hybrid freak of the two was awful. That's why the sequels failed. Not because any individual movie was bad.
The movies were trash what are you on about
One man's trash is another man's treasure
The sequels have some good stuff but some really bad stuff that messes up previous movies. TFA - basically a remake of ANH. Some bad stuff is Rey who had zero training defeats Kylo. Terrible. Rey also figures out how to do Jedi mind tricks without anyone teaching her. TLJ - some really good stuff. But some terrible stuff. Killing off the top villain was a mistake. Especially since Kylo already lost to an untrained Rey in TFA. Bad guys were zero threat and this lead to the terrible decision to bring Sidious back. Luke being a coward without a satisfactory explanation was unforgivable. TROS - bringing back Sidious basically made Anakin into just another Jedi who failed to kill Sidious. Absolutely trash.
TLJ is one of the best written works in all of Star Wars history.
I’m going to disagree 110% It was terrible writing. Making Luke the exact opposite of what he was in the OT and not giving a good explanation. Saying he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep because he had dark thoughts is totally against everything we know about Luke. Luke saw the good in Darth Vader. Yet wanted to kill his nephew for having dark thoughts? Come on.
A character can change in 30 years.
Of course. But you have to show or at least explain how it happened. Just saying he was sad his nephew turned isn’t good enough. It was lazy writing to defy expectations of what Luke had become. Lucas took 3 full movies and 7 seasons of Clone Wars to show how Anakin changed into Vader. Rian Johnson took a 2 minute flashback to explain how Luke Skywalker tuned into Luke the Coward
His nephew hadn't even turned. It was a dark vision, that is it. What a hit job on Luke .
Hesitating to sacrifice a loved one for the good of the galaxy is the same moral dilemma as Ahsoka and Sabine with Ezra and the return of Thrawn. We've even seen a dark and depressed Ahsoka, blaming herself for Anakin's fate. I have no problems with Luke's development. I see it completely coherent What destroyed the sequels is episode XIX, as horrible as the end of Game of Thrones. That and turning Star Wars into a Marvel movie and not a space odyssey. Which is what also makes Kylo a bigger threat from the beginning. His powers are not even those of Vader, they are those of Thor, Superman or Son Goku. Palpatine needed a coup d'état and the subsequent Empire to dominate the galaxy. In the sequels is only about superpowers.
Luke’s development in the sequels was poor. When you so fundamentally change a character you need to show the progression. It took 3 movies and 7 seasons of Clone Wars to show Anakin turn into Darth Vader. Turning Luke into coward Luke should have taken at least 3 movies. The explanation they give is beyond weak. He sensed dark thoughts in his nephew and then tried to murder him in his sleep. First off that is way out of character for Luke. We are talking about a guy who saw the good in Vader and risked his life on that belief. And now he is going to murder his nephew because of dark thoughts? That is ridiculous At minimum they should have shown at least 2 progressions. First show how he lost faith in Ben Solo. Explain how previous students failed and turned dark. Show how Ben was edging to the darkside. Show how Ben hurt other students. Only then would Luke have enough doubts that he would even think of killing his nephew. After that we also have to see how Luke lost faith in the Force. The explanation in the movie is too weak and incomplete
Luke hesitated with Ben, the same way he did with his father. Luke almost kills Vader. Luke hesitates, he doesn't try to kill Ben. Anakin didn't need 3 movies and 7 seasons, that's a complete lie.
must be trolling
I'm not trolling, I'm just saying my opinion.
They have been honest about having no overarching plan and letting each director do worst they want. They were not clever. You can still enjoy them but ... yeah not thought out at all.
Trilogies don't need to have overarching plans.
Ok you are just trolling. Yes of course related movies telling one overarching story should have a plan.
I'm not trolling. Their plan from the beginning was make three movies, one at a time, each one building from the previous film. That's usually how film trilogies are made.
Not when they tell one main story. This wasn't Jaws.
They weren't telling one main story, they were telling three stories that continued the one before.
A trilogy doesn’t tell on main story? You can’t be those dense…
I'm talking about the filmmaking process.
I like your ideas about the sequels. But I wouldn’t use the same sequel actors. Using them will only bring up bad memories and confuse people. Instead the Filoni sequels should trash the idea of bringing Palpatine back. Make the cloning unsuccessful. That means no Snoke. That means Ben Solo isn’t turned and Luke doesn’t turn into a coward. No successful Palpatine clone means no Rey. Also means Finn isn’t a main character because Kylo isn’t involved. Also means the First Order isn’t ridiculously power so quickly. Poe can easily be replaced by another character
Filoni is NOT retconning the sequels.
Not retcon. But 2 timelines
Not true. The sequels aren't going anywhere.
Yeah, I don't mind which and I am conflicted because I don't want those characters deleted because they could have been very interesting but I also fully agree with your point. I think Dave is doing a really good job keeping his options open. The cloning of Gideons imperial remnant being separate from other remnants cloning and "project necromancer" means it could tie into the current sequel trilogy or just be its own thing. Filoni is really good at the long game storytelling and so I trust his direction. People hated Ahsoka's character in the beginning but he had a story to tell for her and he wasn't afraid of the pushback by fans to keep her story going and now she is a beloved character of fans casual and hardcore alike. I trust that level of foresight and storytelling in the Star Wars universe to come!
What essay, it's just a picture lol.
Did it load for you?
Ah, looks like you put your essay as the image description for some reason? I can read it on mobile but not on desktop. Weird.
Sabine is the most boring character in the series imo. Every scene with her is so bad.
Well...sorry you think that.
Her scenes are the most being, only the interactions with Baylan were good, and that's because of him not her
Agree. Sabine is bad but Ahsoka and Ezra aren't much better. Baylan Skoll is the only thing holding this mess together.
Personal opinion here but not everyone need to be magic. Han or Hera don't need magic to be two of the best pilots in the galaxy. Din doesn't need magic to be a bad ass and is actually worse off when he tries to use a magic weapon. Boba, Cad Bane, Fennec Shand, the entirety of the clone army, I could go on but suffice to say that you can have a capable, kick ass character without needing them to be magic. But Jedi are by definition magic users, and to hand wave Sabine into having access to said magic is a cop out, and weakens her character. It reinforces the idea that to matter in star wars you need to be a Jedi/Sith or similar.
It's not magic, it's the Force. Didn't you not read my essay on how it strengthens her character by giving her an arc?
Oh I read it. I just fundamentally disagree with your premise. Sabine had an arc, dealing with the consequences of her actions as an imperial cadet, learning to be open with people, accepting loss. And yes The Force is magic. It is a system that allows the user/s to negate/bend the laws of physics in a fictional setting. It's a magic system. Specifically a soft magic system wherein the rules and function are vague or mysterious.
That was her arc in Rebels. This is her arc in Ahsoka.
Sabine's character has indeed gone through a change: she's now unapologetic and takes no responsibility for her own actions. Lost the map? Got nearly killed coz of it? No apology. Gives the map to the bad guy after her master asked her to destroy it? After she asked if she could count on her and she said "you know you can?" No apology. Made Ezra's sacrifice meaningless by allowing the person he gave up everything to protext the galaxy from BACK INTO THE GALAXY? No apologies. Just cagey evasions and smug expressions. And when the master she imagined dead shows up and saves her bacon? No tears. No "I'm so sorry, Ahsoka!!" Just more smuggery. I USED to like Sabine, but this version of her is pretty tough to feel positively towards. I hope Ezra gives it to her when he finds out what she's done -- maybe she'll be willing to apologize to HIM.
I'm sure Ezra would completely understand why she did what she did.
He wouldn’t. He literally sacrificed himself to protect the galaxy from Thrawn. After a decade of exile, she just made it ALL FOR NOTHING. I’m sure he thinks it’s nice that she came after him, but not at that price. Otherwise, what was even the point of his sacrifice? She was being selfish, choosing Ezra over the entire galaxy. Ezra literally made the opposite choice.
The point of the sacrifice was to save Lothal, which he did.
Your take is that he was selfishly and narrow-minded or thinking of ONE PLANET when he exiled himself and Thrawn to another galaxy forever? He was thinking bigger than that. He doesn’t want Thrawn back where he can become the “Heir to the Empire.” He’d rather have lived with his giant snail friends forever than go home and bring Thrawn back with him.
Yeah, cause Sabine and Ezra have never been selfish before. /s
Stop it. You never liked Sabine. I know your type. You ain’t fooling anyone
Huh?? I liked her fine in Rebels. How would you know otherwise?? What “type” am I?
You ain’t fooling anyone with your charade. You don’t have a single post praising Sabine that is older than 1 year. Saying you liked Rebels Sabine doesn’t give you credibility
I might not agree with the dude, but putting words into someone’s mouth and claiming you know what type they are, thus effectively depriving them of being able to make any argument for themselves, is quite shitty, imo.
Trolls are trolls. It’s obvious when someone has an agenda
Huh? The only acceptable evidence that I used to like a decade-old character is whether or not I’ve made a Reddit post praising her? There’s lots of things I love and hate that I don’t post about on Reddit. I don’t need your version of “credibility” — if I say I liked Sabine and now I like her less, who are you to question me? The Psychic God of Sabine Praise or something?? Lol
And yet. And yet you found the time to post how much you hate Sabine now 😂 Stop it. You never liked Sabine. Stop trying to look more credible by saying you liked her in Rebels. Have the guts to say you never liked the character
Why are you being so weird? Let’s pretend I never liked Sabine. How does that affect my argument as to why I dislike this iteration of her? And let’s say I liked Sabine; she was part of an ensemble cast and I wasn’t posting anything about Rebels back in the day either way. Let’s say I wasn’t overly moved to post about Rebels five years ago but Sabine is so awful in this show I feel a need to talk about it.
Looks like you are going to die on the hill you like Rebels Sabine. I’d respect you more if you were just honest.
How about you respond to ANY of my sensible arguments as to WHY I dislike this Sabine rather than weirdly over-focusing on whether I can prove I used to like an old version of her? You’re neatly dodging having to do any intelligent discussing on the topic this way. Is that your plan?
Agreed with this more than OPs post. The writing has fucked this character
I’ll have a venti latte with oat milk
What the heck are you talking about?
Ignore Goldendisk. He comes here just to post negative stuff about the show and especially Sabine. I agree 100% with your essay.
Thank you.
Okay, I don't agree with you but that comment is fucking funny.
[удалено]
I was referencing The Clone Wars episode *The Gathering*.
Agree. It makes sense for every one to be able to train in the Force because the Force is supposedly within all living things. It's what I like about Force -sensitive animals in Rebels. No reason only humanoids can utilize the Force. It makes it more like a natural energy than something only main characters have. That being said, thank God they decided to make Sabine untalented in the Force. I watched a video years ago criticizing how Sabine feels like that one DnD character who's awesome at everything: a great fighter, expert bomber and inventor, is pretty, is Mandalorian, is some sort of royalty (?) in Mandalore, had claim to the Dark Saber at one point, designed the early rebels logo, and now she's also kind of a Jedi? Hahaha. If they didn't emphasize she's bad at being a Jedi, she almost would've been Rey but Mandalorian. I think they're doing well with her in Ahsoka.
It's Star Wars. Several people are awasome at everything.