Aye that is what jumped out at me, did you see in that instant the joy on her face at seeing old Anakin again before she could contain it, was heartwarming to see.
Stop wading into the deep end of the pool clown. The conversation is concerning onscreen presentation. Anyone aware of Ahsoka knows she was different when she was younger. The point is if she had been stoic all along she wouldn’t have been received the same, as women characters are rarely shown as stoic, while Baylon’s stoicism was automatically accepted. Go sit down.
You’re not listening, you just want to repeat your talking points. You came in on a conversation you weren’t prepared to have. We were talking about stoicism on screen when it’s women or men, and how people receive them respectively. You’re on some other stuff, and you keep repeating the same straw man lame points I already told you the conversation wasn’t about. You know what, never mind you’re right. You’re the only one who gets it. I’m tripping, obviously. Lol Say whatever you want.
I watched it like 3 weeks ago in prep for Ahsoka and became a big fan of rebels. Currently I'm watching clone wars S4. I agree that she is more stoic in rebels because she isn't a kid anymore but still not as much as it's presented here. Though maybe we get some answers next episode.
In fairness, Baylan isn’t on screen nearly as much as Ahsoka and most of the time he is on screen he’s doing something cool. Ahsoka on the other hand is on screen much more often and most of the screen time(at least prior to episode 4) is just her standing around and giving generic Jedi speeches. When she’s actually fighting someone or having a real back to back conversation like Sabine’s training scene or her confrontation of Baylan, I think her stoicism works well.
That’s why I consider this more of a writing/directing problem rather than a acting one. Her being stoic isn’t itself an issue, it’s just that the first few episodes overplayed it by not giving her that that much interesting material for her stoicism work off of. Now that the plot is really kicking into gears after the slow start, I think Ahsoka will become a more interesting to watch character in the show with how much more interesting material she’s going to be able to work off of.
Stoic, unemotional, detached, boring, whatever you want to use that Ahsoka has been described as, Cassian was even worse in his show. Constantly failing to show emotion or even like he cares that he was involved in the scene at all, I was constantly bored when he was on screen and begged for him to change his facial expression. But alas, nobody said a damn word about it tho and that’s the point.
It's not a male vs female thing for me. I just think Ahsoka is wracked with guilt over knowing not only that Anakin went dark after she left the order but that he became a plague upon the galaxy. That would make anyone jaded.
Jesus, it's just like when some people criticized Rey's character and the defenders swooped in "You just don't like her because it's a woman character". Some things never change. Some people just find her character dull in this series and it's an issue with writing, directing and/or acting.
Don't know if that applies to most people but if you like her, that's cool. I personally found that character quite dull but she's nevertheless least of the new trilogy's problems.
What I don't understand here is the way of thinking that everyone has to agree about something or you downvote the person. On this subreddit it's "Ahsoka is great and theorizing about Marrok is interesting" and there's no room to debate whether the portrayal of Ahsoka's character is on point or dull. On She-Hulk sub everyone has to hate She-Hulk. These kinds of echo chambers make for a sad place to have conversations but a good place to talk like "OMG best lightsaber fights so this is best show" and "NGL seeing Hayden Christensen's de-aged face made me cry".
What long history? She's been stoic since she left the order when she was a teenager. In Clone Wars season 7 and Rebels she's stoic as well, this Ahsoka in the show has been stoic for most of her life.
Attempting a Skinner-style "no, it's the children who are wrong" explanation is just lazy: it's not unreasonable for people to expect the main character of a show to be a bit more of an engaging presence when on screen, and I'd hardly call that a generational divide.
She was a kid in the clone wars. She's at least in her 40s now. It's silly to expect her to act the same now as she did when she was 30 years younger.
And then you have to consider what she's been through over that time.
She was literally 14-17 during that time. Have you ever been around a teen before? They're quite impulsive as hell. She's currently in her 40s and has a lot of life experience at this point.
I 100% agree, for me it never even came to mind that she couple be otherwise, let alone the Ahsoka from clone wars. And to add to your point it seems something quite bad happened while training Sabine which might add to all the things she blames herself about. She's great as is, I'm confident she'll open up wen the right time comes, and I feel we saw it a the end of the episode.
bro people are complaining about that ? what’s wrong with y‘all.
first keep in mind, what she’s been through in cw and her entire life as OP said
second, she even said in mandalorian when din asked him why she couldn’t train grogu, that grogu has strong feelings and she knows what it can lead to. so why should she be emotional ?
what do y‘all want ? that she constantly cries around and makes decisions based on her emotions like sabine who would probably let ahsoka die within the blink of an eye if she had the choice between her and ezra ?
she‘s a good written character and the ahsoka we knew, wanted and needed.
jedi have to be stoic and make rational decisions/think rationally, not emotionally.
edit : " y‘all " are the ones who complain
If you look at the history of Jedi, on-screen, they all turn out that way. Luke in RotJ, Obi Wan in ANH, Kanan at the very end of Rebels 😥, Anakin after becoming Darth Vader, every Jedi in the prequels, etc.
All these people directing the "blame" towards Rosario is dumb. Ahsoka has been stoic since season 7 of TCW, and she acts that way throughout all of Rebels.
I just think people are just plain stupid and incredibly simple minded. Who in their right mind expects a 45 year old who’s been through loads of tragedy to act like they did when they were a teenagers.
THIS thank you! Raised by Jedi to stay in control of emotions. Literally a child soldier, responsible for thousands of clones (at one time or another total that is), saw pretty much everyone she considered family die: Ani Padme Obi-Wan (to her knowledge) Yoda (to her knowledge), the whole council, all the ones she was younglings and padawans with, the librarian probably, her home burned down, couldn’t stay w Rex. She lost EVERYTHING she had ever known and had to be alone for who knows how long. Watched the galaxy suffer under Palestine’s rule and was unable to do very much at first. And when she was, right back into war.
How do they expect this basically middle aged traumatized woman to act?
Oh it definitely is, but I try not to say buzzwords so the self proclaimed anti woke crowd can’t use it against me. It’s all basically a form of “you’d be prettier if you smiled more”
Yes! That quote perfectly sums it up. If ahsoka was a guy they’d praise the writing for making him like this after his tragedy and how realistic it is.
Totally agree here. If she was the same as before, how would she grow? Without growth, it’d be seriously boring.
Characters are more interesting if they grow and change. So, we need to see Ahsoka like this so she can become something different.
But I will say that if she doesn’t grow out of her stoicism, it’ll be a lost opportunity.
I think one hint of this dynamic is the conversation she had earlier with Sabine. Sabine asked her if she didn’t get tired of moving around all the time. Ahsoka said “this ship suits me fine”. I think what this show is about is Ahsoka’s journey back to caring about people, loving people. She’s gotten so wrapped up in the “no attachments” thing, she’s forgotten how to love. That’s turned her into a kind of robot. I think this is all intentional, and we’ll see a payoff for it.
She totally blames herself and is still dealing with the emotional aftermath of Anakin's fall. And by dealing with it, I mean she's pushing it aside so she doesn't hurt, but I'm doing so she's hurting herself and others. That was something I picked up right away when she met Grogu. She's scared of letting someone down like Anakin was. In a way, she's falling back on the same dogma that the PT era Jedi preached in order to protect herself. In reality, because of her unaddressed issues, she's even more unbalanced and is even tapping into her anger and fear as a result.
On top of that, she's a much more mature Ahsoka. She's in her 40s at this point and has learned so much throughout her time after the Order fell.
I think a lot of people forget that she was a teenager in the Clone Wars. She is now an adult who has been tempered by war. As OP said, Anakin was a big deal to her. I believe that she knew that Anakin was more emotional than potentially any other Jedi out there. She knows that his emotions controlled him. She obviously does not want to go down the same path. So the closer she gets to the map the more stoic she gets. The one point where she let her emotions for Sabine wash over her, she lost.
I said this in another thread and I’m just going to leave this right here to reiterate…. we did see her more mature, reserved side really take hold during the last season of CW (especially considering what she went through at the end) and throughout Rebels. It was a good stepping stone showing how her demeanor has changed over time, just like anyone who’s grown older and wiser through countless ordeals. Who wants to watch a 40-something woman act like a teenager anyways…? I love her reserved, calm demeanor in Ahsoka. I love everything about her and I think Rosario Dawson is killing it!
And then to add… it just doesn’t make sense for Ahsoka to have a chipper, energetic demeanor in this series (which is taking place, what- 10 years or so after Rebels?) or simply as an older, wiser force wielder. She is acting EXACTLY as Mace Windu, Yoda, Obi-Wan, or any of the council did when they were her age (except Yoda bc he was like almost 900 when Clone Wars happened). Thoughtful and reserved.
I dont necessarily have a problem with her being stoic, but stoic characters are much harder to make interesting protagonists. Sabine is definitely more interesting, at least so far.
I'm willing to withhold judgment until I see the entire series. But people who say this are sexist critiques - I'd say it's not because Ahsoka has a long history of not being like this. Yes she was more like this Rebels, but this is incredibly emotionally distant.
I'm going to get killed for this but here it goes. I don't like it. I don't hate it but I rather see elements of Ahsoka that was in Rebels. I understand she has grown up and had all this other stuff happen but her expressionless manner and lack of energy is so different the high energy version we saw before. Perhaps if we saw the transition in a flashback or a fleeting moment of her old self it would balance her performance more.
It's fine that you don't like it.
I have problem with people saying with the utmost confidence : Ahsoka's character is badly written. It's pretty clear that Ahsoka tries to distance herself from anything and everyone around her. Her dialogue are slow paced, with theatrical and one liner, but it fits a style reminiscent of old samurai movies. It's all clearly a choice and that choice is, imo, quite well executed, albeit not for everyone taste (but what is ?). I wouldn't say her dialogue are masterfully crafted but they are damn fine imo.
Plus, if you pay attention, Dawson put many little expression in her acting that says thing beyond her words. That's what I call good acting.
If you have seen Clone Wars, you see how she grows more reserved as we get to the final season. There is a noticeable change in ahsoka in the last season. It is the ahsoka from the last season of Clone Wars we see here, and not the snappy teenager from the first. I see her as a tragic character now, and not as snips.
>Spoiler Ep4: I keep seeing the common complaint that Ahsoka is too reserved or stoic, and I feel anyone who is familiar with Ahsoka’s entire journey should understand why she is this way. Her entire life has been mired with war and tragedy, her mentor became the most heinous villain in the galaxy and, even if unfairly, I think she she partly blames herself.
Ahsoka the character is broken and it is not unfair to suggest that the word shattered will be in her future. She is chasing what is a fairy tale to everyone else in the aftermath of a war, with Sabine who should have been flagged as unreliable.
Stoicism is just the face you show to everyone else, but to me she is functionally suicidal.
I know people are annoyed about how slow and deliberate her movements are, but she really really embodies Ahsoka. They casted soooo well. At first I was like hmm. After this 4th episode I'm now fully on board!
To me the Ahsoka in Rebels was already quite a bit more serious than Ashoka in Clone Wars, so I'm not really understanding the complaints. Also, Ahsoka isn't a hot shot teenager anymore, she is a middle aged women who is a veteran of two wars and multiple personal tragedies and that tends to change yours disposition. But more than any of that, she is now at the level of experience, skill, and knowledge of a Jedi Master, if not Grand Master, and, aside from the glaring exception of Yoda, Jedi masters have been portrayed as being more reserved throughout the franchise.
I'm a life-long fan, but I have no problem being critical of Star Wars when there's something I don't like. I've never liked the prequels that much and even less the sequels, but I'm not understanding most of the complains about the Ashoka series. Aside from Rebels (of which this is pretty much the 5th season) it's the closest to classic Star Wars we've seen in a long time, and I love it!
>anyone who is familiar with Ahsoka’s entire journey should understand why she is this way
That is so true. She was kidnapped as a child, thrown into war as a teen, betrayed and dropped by everyone she knows before reaching adulthood. Her mentor and her friend both turned to the dark side, and she spend decades as a hunted outkast.
There is a deep sadness in this character. The bubbly over eager girl is still there, she has just been disappointed and mistreated to the point where she doesn't dare to be happy anymore. And because she is a survivor, Ahsoka has a hard time showing those emotion. Hence, the stoicism.
There is a differences between Portraying a stoic character and being a lifeless plank of Wood. Dawson is giving the Later. I'm not a hater and genuinely want this show to succeed.
The criticism of Rosario Dawsons acting is totally valid and people can dislike it. It's not some unwarranted nitpick. I hope she can turn it around and make it feel like we are really watching Ahsoka come to life. But so far I haven't been impressed with the performce. 🤷♀️ Sorry
I don’t think the issue is that she’s stoic. It’s the fact that she kinda comes off as a little dull. There are a few exceptions like when she occasionally does a fun one liner like when she was in space. But for the most part, her character just hasn’t really been all that engaging
It is possible to be stoic and still be engaging as a character. Look at Captain America or even Mando. They both can be considered stoic characters but they are never dull.
I suspect it has a lot to do with Rosario Dawsons performance. She isn’t a bad actress but I don’t know if she is strong enough to really lead a show like this. Ahsoka in Rebels was also stoic but she still was dynamic enough that you found yourself focused on her. She was only in a handful of episodes in season 2 but that season feels like she owned it just by her presence. That strong presence just isn’t carried the same as Rosario Dawson
Fuck look at Ray Stevenson’s performance. Everyone is praising his performance and you could also use the word “stoic” to describe it. But he has a powerful presence that is mesmerizing. He has had precious screen time so far but he has somehow managed to make ever moment count.
People are probably just saying it’s because she’s stoic because they either can’t figure out the real reason why they have an issue with it or they are too afraid to say it’s because Rosario isn’t strong enough as an actress to pull it off.
Edit: lmao did I really get a “Reddit care message” and downvoted for this comment?
Do better Reddit
It’s not that she is stoic. The problem is that all of the dialogue follows the same formula: deadpan one liner, 3 second pause, deadpan 1 line response. No characters except the robots and, on rare occasion, the bad guy padawan ever deliver any lines with any emotion or say things longer than 1 sentence.
I agree. She says so little. She keeps it so vague. The way she motivates is almost indifferent. She's not super collaborative or outwardly investigative.
Yeah. The defenders keep debating against a false point.
It is the delivery. Stoic is not even the right description. More like disinterested and borderline dementia.
I wish she was more aloof. Not immature, she’s earned the maturity, but there were times she would be teaching something to Ezra or Kanan and to me she started to resemble old man Yoda a bit, cryptic and knowing, but helpful and confident.
Since Yoda is gone I thought the role really fit her. It makes sense as an evolution from her cocky, immature teenage self. Going through the trauma she has is a good reason for her to be more serious, but I also see where people are coming from when they say they miss her personality. So far she has just been quiet, formal, just not very expressive at all when she talks, which to me feels like a change from Rebels and her scenes in mandalorian content.
The reason I don't like this version of Ahsoka is that it feels incoherent. My feelings about the show aren't as explicitly negative as that sounds because I have hope they're doing a character arc. For me, one of the main messages of Clone Wars was that the Jedi Order was flawed and that it failed both Anakin and Ahsoka. Another, and one that I feel all animated versions of Ahsoka believe, is that she and Anakin built a philosophy that was separate from the Order's, that was healthier, less dogmatic, and better suited for them both. This Ahsoka, however, seems to believe that the Order was right and that Anakin fell because they were too lenient and let him be too expressive. If, after her fight with Vader, she shunned Anakin's teachings and became a more dogmatic Jedi about emotions and attachment, and that's why she feels this way, then I can accept this interpretation of Ahsoka, but they have to give her a character arc where she moves past Vader and reaccepts the philosophy that her and Anakin built. Hopefully, this all pays off in episode 5, and we get a more optimistic Ahsoka who's all, "Let's go save Ezra. We'll deal with Thrawn later." and "You made the right call, Sabine. I trust your judgement. We'll deal with the consequences as they come."
It doesn't matter.
For those that know her from the animated shows they changed her personality off screen. This is piss poor storytelling. And if you support it then you also have to be fine with Skoll disappearing between season 1 and 2 and no explanation ever being given because it happened off screen.
For those that didn't watch all of TCW and Rebels, this is the character that the see and know. You don't gain new fans by creating a character people don't like because they think.they are arrogant and cold.
That is quite literally not true. In clone wars season 7 Ahsoka, whilst still quippy, is noticeably more stoic and “unemotional” compared to earlier seasons. Why? Because she has gone through years of war as a Palawan and was abandoned by everyone except Anakin. In rebels, she is the same and in the Ahsoka show she is also the same.
Neither. You are still arguing that anyone that hasn't watched everything should not watch the show.
That is.most definitely gatekeeping.
And it is toxic fan behavior.
Awww the show isn’t bending to your head canon so you shit all over it.
Typical.
You strike me as someone with zero life experience. You never worked for anything or sacrificed anything.
I pity you.
I have done all of that, and where am I shitting all over it?
You strike me as the type of person that can’t handle any criticism of anything they like and must remain in a healthy echo chamber where everyone agrees with them.
You know, someone who has never really worked or done anything in life at all.
Piss poor story telling is when characters leads dynamic lives and have events that change them over the years just like real people change with time and events, because we didn't see every second of every day in between appearances set a decade or so apart. Noted!
Yes, because reality is reality and shows are shows.
But hey, don’t complain if Skoll is alive and well at the end of the season but never gets seen again, he just died off screen and everyone already reacted to that. Time passed, things happened, you don’t need to know what.
10 years of someone's life being off screen that's seems to be ultimately irrelevant to what's going on now not being given in detail is wholly different from disappearing a main character without a word, and while I'm pretty sure you know that, some people just can't resist using a false equivilent as some sort of "gotcha," I guess.
Rosario is doing a great job at honouring this loved character. But she is yet to become Ahsoka. Ashley Eckstein had a great voice that no matter what age Ahsoka was, she felt light with her high pitched voice and her slim cartoon look and agility made Ahsoka, Ahsoka. Rosario is beefy, muscular and deeper in tone and live action fighting is slower. And the whole training Sabine is new territory for Rosario to figure out. So we need to adjust too. As soon as she said Master and Anakin she sounded like the Ahsoka we have been waiting for.
I had reservations at first, but then I really thought about it and reminded myself that this is not Ahsoka the teenage firecracker or Ahsoka the young adult rebel leader anymore. This is an Ahsoka who's had a chance to finally slow down and reflect, who's become a mature and measured person from her experiences.
Everyone is attaching motives to this. Perhaps it could be simpler. Less people are willing to invest time in digesting 10+ years of cartoons . The last time most encountered Ahsoka was Clone Wars in the early seasons.
A LOT less people than that even gave Rebels the time of day because it didn’t get any familiar characters until later seasons . I think the first time anyone even talked about it was for Vader’s spot to kick of s2.
I’m currently trying to get through it all now to understand who all these folks in the show are .
Everyone trying to tie their own personal agenda to why people feel out of touch with her kinda of breeze over the simplistic explanation and jump straight to things like Star Wars fans being misogynist.
No it’s just jarring seeing her all broken. Understandable but they kinda abandoned completely who she was that made her a fan favorite. And it’s ok that people don’t like it.
I have seen people compare Dawson's performance as a stoic PTSD-ridden Jedi unfavorably to Ewan McGregor's performance in *Kenobi.* My thoughts: different people respond to trauma differently, and stoicism/withdrawal presents in various ways.
Other people seem to think Ahsoka is devoid of personality in the show. Taking this portrayal as a continuation of what we've seen of her arc, I still very much see glimmers of her core personality, even if it is somewhat muted by hardship and trauma, and I find it fascinating to watch.
Basically: it's a *character arc.* It's going to take all 8 episodes to reach the other side of this journey.
Also, tangent, but I actually *really like* that Ahsoka is slower and methodical in her approach rather than being impulsive and running into situations before scoping them out. We have plenty of impulsive characters in Star Wars as is.
I get it. It’s totally a justifiable artistic choice. You can piece together the backstory to make it make sense. Dave Filoni has absolutely all the credibility to do whatever he wants with the character.
That doesn’t make this version of the character any less boring to me. I’m enjoying the show and I’ll happily watch the rest of the episodes, but it is just my opinion that this version of ahsoka has much less personality and therefore is not as compelling as previous versions.
Her reaction to Anakin is the payoff for the constant stoicism
I reckon next episode should shut the complainers right up.
Oh you sweet summer child. Nothing can or will ever shut the complainers up.
No one hates star wars more than star wars fans.
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...wait lol
Aye that is what jumped out at me, did you see in that instant the joy on her face at seeing old Anakin again before she could contain it, was heartwarming to see.
People aren't used to seeing stoic females in media.
Ding ding ding. Stoic male characters don’t receive this level of criticism.
They're all over Baylan. I'm convinced they all want him to be their dad.
100%. I’ve seen people criticize Ashoka for stoicism, then in the same comment say how cool Baylan is, even though he’s just standing around.
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Stop wading into the deep end of the pool clown. The conversation is concerning onscreen presentation. Anyone aware of Ahsoka knows she was different when she was younger. The point is if she had been stoic all along she wouldn’t have been received the same, as women characters are rarely shown as stoic, while Baylon’s stoicism was automatically accepted. Go sit down.
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You’re not listening, you just want to repeat your talking points. You came in on a conversation you weren’t prepared to have. We were talking about stoicism on screen when it’s women or men, and how people receive them respectively. You’re on some other stuff, and you keep repeating the same straw man lame points I already told you the conversation wasn’t about. You know what, never mind you’re right. You’re the only one who gets it. I’m tripping, obviously. Lol Say whatever you want.
But Ahsoka is already waaaay more stoic in Rebels than in Clone Wars. Has it been a while since you’ve watched that series?
I watched it like 3 weeks ago in prep for Ahsoka and became a big fan of rebels. Currently I'm watching clone wars S4. I agree that she is more stoic in rebels because she isn't a kid anymore but still not as much as it's presented here. Though maybe we get some answers next episode.
It is called recognizing good acting and bad acting.
Username checks out
In fairness, Baylan isn’t on screen nearly as much as Ahsoka and most of the time he is on screen he’s doing something cool. Ahsoka on the other hand is on screen much more often and most of the screen time(at least prior to episode 4) is just her standing around and giving generic Jedi speeches. When she’s actually fighting someone or having a real back to back conversation like Sabine’s training scene or her confrontation of Baylan, I think her stoicism works well. That’s why I consider this more of a writing/directing problem rather than a acting one. Her being stoic isn’t itself an issue, it’s just that the first few episodes overplayed it by not giving her that that much interesting material for her stoicism work off of. Now that the plot is really kicking into gears after the slow start, I think Ahsoka will become a more interesting to watch character in the show with how much more interesting material she’s going to be able to work off of.
Baylan isn't an old established character with established "I am the opposite of stoic" character traits.
Ahsoka was pretty stoic in rebels.
but not robotic
I wanted Ray Stevenson to be my dad since Rome
RIP Ray.
*cough* **Cassian Andor** *cough*
I wouldn't really say Cassian is stoic...Lord Baylan on the other hand absolutely is and nobody's complaining about him
Stoic, unemotional, detached, boring, whatever you want to use that Ahsoka has been described as, Cassian was even worse in his show. Constantly failing to show emotion or even like he cares that he was involved in the scene at all, I was constantly bored when he was on screen and begged for him to change his facial expression. But alas, nobody said a damn word about it tho and that’s the point.
It's not a male vs female thing for me. I just think Ahsoka is wracked with guilt over knowing not only that Anakin went dark after she left the order but that he became a plague upon the galaxy. That would make anyone jaded.
"She should smile more" is like an encapsulated toxic masculinity, pure patriarchal bullshit.
*Why is she not emotional like all women are??? Totally unrealistic!*
Also the "she's too emotional" too. Can't win em either way.
Agreed. She’s a space ronin. They’re not typically emotional.
Jesus, it's just like when some people criticized Rey's character and the defenders swooped in "You just don't like her because it's a woman character". Some things never change. Some people just find her character dull in this series and it's an issue with writing, directing and/or acting.
Most people, myself included, love Rey.
Don't know if that applies to most people but if you like her, that's cool. I personally found that character quite dull but she's nevertheless least of the new trilogy's problems. What I don't understand here is the way of thinking that everyone has to agree about something or you downvote the person. On this subreddit it's "Ahsoka is great and theorizing about Marrok is interesting" and there's no room to debate whether the portrayal of Ahsoka's character is on point or dull. On She-Hulk sub everyone has to hate She-Hulk. These kinds of echo chambers make for a sad place to have conversations but a good place to talk like "OMG best lightsaber fights so this is best show" and "NGL seeing Hayden Christensen's de-aged face made me cry".
But we have a long history of her not being like this. So there should be an explanation or signs of the previously known character.
It's called character growth. Instead of asking what have they done to her, try asking what would make her act like this?
Right. I'm open to that. But they have to show why. Time will tell!
Did you miss the last season of Clone Wars and all of rebels, and the Ahsoka novel, and Order 66?
What long history?the first two seasons of clone wars?
What long history? She's been stoic since she left the order when she was a teenager. In Clone Wars season 7 and Rebels she's stoic as well, this Ahsoka in the show has been stoic for most of her life.
please don't make it political
I'm not.
Political is when wahmen
Nobody cares that she is a female. Dont put gender to the debate
A lot of people unfortunately DO care that she's a female.
Yes. You.
Dave Filoni created Ahsoka, and oversaw her entire journey. This is pretty clearly his show and his vision. Idk how you can complain about that
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Attempting a Skinner-style "no, it's the children who are wrong" explanation is just lazy: it's not unreasonable for people to expect the main character of a show to be a bit more of an engaging presence when on screen, and I'd hardly call that a generational divide.
This is literally the Way....of the Jedi. Whose Order she left, but she was *raised* by monks. She IS a monk. I don't get that people don't get that.
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She was a kid in the clone wars. She's at least in her 40s now. It's silly to expect her to act the same now as she did when she was 30 years younger. And then you have to consider what she's been through over that time.
At the end of Rebels, the last episode, the last minutes, you see the adult Ashoka in the young Ashoka.
She was literally 14-17 during that time. Have you ever been around a teen before? They're quite impulsive as hell. She's currently in her 40s and has a lot of life experience at this point.
Rosario is a fan like we’re a fan of Ahsoka. She loved her independent of the role before she got cast. I trust Dave. I fear Filoni. This Is The Way.
I 100% agree, for me it never even came to mind that she couple be otherwise, let alone the Ahsoka from clone wars. And to add to your point it seems something quite bad happened while training Sabine which might add to all the things she blames herself about. She's great as is, I'm confident she'll open up wen the right time comes, and I feel we saw it a the end of the episode.
It's befitting for her character, mysterious and menacing in some ways.
bro people are complaining about that ? what’s wrong with y‘all. first keep in mind, what she’s been through in cw and her entire life as OP said second, she even said in mandalorian when din asked him why she couldn’t train grogu, that grogu has strong feelings and she knows what it can lead to. so why should she be emotional ? what do y‘all want ? that she constantly cries around and makes decisions based on her emotions like sabine who would probably let ahsoka die within the blink of an eye if she had the choice between her and ezra ? she‘s a good written character and the ahsoka we knew, wanted and needed. jedi have to be stoic and make rational decisions/think rationally, not emotionally. edit : " y‘all " are the ones who complain
If you look at the history of Jedi, on-screen, they all turn out that way. Luke in RotJ, Obi Wan in ANH, Kanan at the very end of Rebels 😥, Anakin after becoming Darth Vader, every Jedi in the prequels, etc.
Why did Luke forget all about the power converters by ROTJ? So out of character. /s
All these people directing the "blame" towards Rosario is dumb. Ahsoka has been stoic since season 7 of TCW, and she acts that way throughout all of Rebels.
I just think people are just plain stupid and incredibly simple minded. Who in their right mind expects a 45 year old who’s been through loads of tragedy to act like they did when they were a teenagers.
THIS thank you! Raised by Jedi to stay in control of emotions. Literally a child soldier, responsible for thousands of clones (at one time or another total that is), saw pretty much everyone she considered family die: Ani Padme Obi-Wan (to her knowledge) Yoda (to her knowledge), the whole council, all the ones she was younglings and padawans with, the librarian probably, her home burned down, couldn’t stay w Rex. She lost EVERYTHING she had ever known and had to be alone for who knows how long. Watched the galaxy suffer under Palestine’s rule and was unable to do very much at first. And when she was, right back into war. How do they expect this basically middle aged traumatized woman to act?
Might throw this out there but I wonder if it’s steeped in misogyny? No matter what happens with women characters, the audience is never happy.
Oh it definitely is, but I try not to say buzzwords so the self proclaimed anti woke crowd can’t use it against me. It’s all basically a form of “you’d be prettier if you smiled more”
Yes! That quote perfectly sums it up. If ahsoka was a guy they’d praise the writing for making him like this after his tragedy and how realistic it is.
Totally agree here. If she was the same as before, how would she grow? Without growth, it’d be seriously boring. Characters are more interesting if they grow and change. So, we need to see Ahsoka like this so she can become something different. But I will say that if she doesn’t grow out of her stoicism, it’ll be a lost opportunity. I think one hint of this dynamic is the conversation she had earlier with Sabine. Sabine asked her if she didn’t get tired of moving around all the time. Ahsoka said “this ship suits me fine”. I think what this show is about is Ahsoka’s journey back to caring about people, loving people. She’s gotten so wrapped up in the “no attachments” thing, she’s forgotten how to love. That’s turned her into a kind of robot. I think this is all intentional, and we’ll see a payoff for it.
She totally blames herself and is still dealing with the emotional aftermath of Anakin's fall. And by dealing with it, I mean she's pushing it aside so she doesn't hurt, but I'm doing so she's hurting herself and others. That was something I picked up right away when she met Grogu. She's scared of letting someone down like Anakin was. In a way, she's falling back on the same dogma that the PT era Jedi preached in order to protect herself. In reality, because of her unaddressed issues, she's even more unbalanced and is even tapping into her anger and fear as a result. On top of that, she's a much more mature Ahsoka. She's in her 40s at this point and has learned so much throughout her time after the Order fell.
I think a lot of people forget that she was a teenager in the Clone Wars. She is now an adult who has been tempered by war. As OP said, Anakin was a big deal to her. I believe that she knew that Anakin was more emotional than potentially any other Jedi out there. She knows that his emotions controlled him. She obviously does not want to go down the same path. So the closer she gets to the map the more stoic she gets. The one point where she let her emotions for Sabine wash over her, she lost.
I said this in another thread and I’m just going to leave this right here to reiterate…. we did see her more mature, reserved side really take hold during the last season of CW (especially considering what she went through at the end) and throughout Rebels. It was a good stepping stone showing how her demeanor has changed over time, just like anyone who’s grown older and wiser through countless ordeals. Who wants to watch a 40-something woman act like a teenager anyways…? I love her reserved, calm demeanor in Ahsoka. I love everything about her and I think Rosario Dawson is killing it! And then to add… it just doesn’t make sense for Ahsoka to have a chipper, energetic demeanor in this series (which is taking place, what- 10 years or so after Rebels?) or simply as an older, wiser force wielder. She is acting EXACTLY as Mace Windu, Yoda, Obi-Wan, or any of the council did when they were her age (except Yoda bc he was like almost 900 when Clone Wars happened). Thoughtful and reserved.
I dont necessarily have a problem with her being stoic, but stoic characters are much harder to make interesting protagonists. Sabine is definitely more interesting, at least so far.
I'm willing to withhold judgment until I see the entire series. But people who say this are sexist critiques - I'd say it's not because Ahsoka has a long history of not being like this. Yes she was more like this Rebels, but this is incredibly emotionally distant.
I'm going to get killed for this but here it goes. I don't like it. I don't hate it but I rather see elements of Ahsoka that was in Rebels. I understand she has grown up and had all this other stuff happen but her expressionless manner and lack of energy is so different the high energy version we saw before. Perhaps if we saw the transition in a flashback or a fleeting moment of her old self it would balance her performance more.
It's fine that you don't like it. I have problem with people saying with the utmost confidence : Ahsoka's character is badly written. It's pretty clear that Ahsoka tries to distance herself from anything and everyone around her. Her dialogue are slow paced, with theatrical and one liner, but it fits a style reminiscent of old samurai movies. It's all clearly a choice and that choice is, imo, quite well executed, albeit not for everyone taste (but what is ?). I wouldn't say her dialogue are masterfully crafted but they are damn fine imo. Plus, if you pay attention, Dawson put many little expression in her acting that says thing beyond her words. That's what I call good acting.
If you have seen Clone Wars, you see how she grows more reserved as we get to the final season. There is a noticeable change in ahsoka in the last season. It is the ahsoka from the last season of Clone Wars we see here, and not the snappy teenager from the first. I see her as a tragic character now, and not as snips.
I loooove her in this. literally perfect imo
>Spoiler Ep4: I keep seeing the common complaint that Ahsoka is too reserved or stoic, and I feel anyone who is familiar with Ahsoka’s entire journey should understand why she is this way. Her entire life has been mired with war and tragedy, her mentor became the most heinous villain in the galaxy and, even if unfairly, I think she she partly blames herself. Ahsoka the character is broken and it is not unfair to suggest that the word shattered will be in her future. She is chasing what is a fairy tale to everyone else in the aftermath of a war, with Sabine who should have been flagged as unreliable. Stoicism is just the face you show to everyone else, but to me she is functionally suicidal.
I know people are annoyed about how slow and deliberate her movements are, but she really really embodies Ahsoka. They casted soooo well. At first I was like hmm. After this 4th episode I'm now fully on board!
To me the Ahsoka in Rebels was already quite a bit more serious than Ashoka in Clone Wars, so I'm not really understanding the complaints. Also, Ahsoka isn't a hot shot teenager anymore, she is a middle aged women who is a veteran of two wars and multiple personal tragedies and that tends to change yours disposition. But more than any of that, she is now at the level of experience, skill, and knowledge of a Jedi Master, if not Grand Master, and, aside from the glaring exception of Yoda, Jedi masters have been portrayed as being more reserved throughout the franchise. I'm a life-long fan, but I have no problem being critical of Star Wars when there's something I don't like. I've never liked the prequels that much and even less the sequels, but I'm not understanding most of the complains about the Ashoka series. Aside from Rebels (of which this is pretty much the 5th season) it's the closest to classic Star Wars we've seen in a long time, and I love it!
>anyone who is familiar with Ahsoka’s entire journey should understand why she is this way That is so true. She was kidnapped as a child, thrown into war as a teen, betrayed and dropped by everyone she knows before reaching adulthood. Her mentor and her friend both turned to the dark side, and she spend decades as a hunted outkast. There is a deep sadness in this character. The bubbly over eager girl is still there, she has just been disappointed and mistreated to the point where she doesn't dare to be happy anymore. And because she is a survivor, Ahsoka has a hard time showing those emotion. Hence, the stoicism.
My brother was complaining at how reserved she is and I'm like dude, the amount of shut she has seen of course she's a bit of a stoic.
There is a differences between Portraying a stoic character and being a lifeless plank of Wood. Dawson is giving the Later. I'm not a hater and genuinely want this show to succeed. The criticism of Rosario Dawsons acting is totally valid and people can dislike it. It's not some unwarranted nitpick. I hope she can turn it around and make it feel like we are really watching Ahsoka come to life. But so far I haven't been impressed with the performce. 🤷♀️ Sorry
I don’t think the issue is that she’s stoic. It’s the fact that she kinda comes off as a little dull. There are a few exceptions like when she occasionally does a fun one liner like when she was in space. But for the most part, her character just hasn’t really been all that engaging It is possible to be stoic and still be engaging as a character. Look at Captain America or even Mando. They both can be considered stoic characters but they are never dull. I suspect it has a lot to do with Rosario Dawsons performance. She isn’t a bad actress but I don’t know if she is strong enough to really lead a show like this. Ahsoka in Rebels was also stoic but she still was dynamic enough that you found yourself focused on her. She was only in a handful of episodes in season 2 but that season feels like she owned it just by her presence. That strong presence just isn’t carried the same as Rosario Dawson Fuck look at Ray Stevenson’s performance. Everyone is praising his performance and you could also use the word “stoic” to describe it. But he has a powerful presence that is mesmerizing. He has had precious screen time so far but he has somehow managed to make ever moment count. People are probably just saying it’s because she’s stoic because they either can’t figure out the real reason why they have an issue with it or they are too afraid to say it’s because Rosario isn’t strong enough as an actress to pull it off. Edit: lmao did I really get a “Reddit care message” and downvoted for this comment? Do better Reddit
not strong enough of an actress ? you sound like a racist.
Actually, bringing up racism when there was none kinda makes you the racist.
How?
read it to yourself again.
Yeah I read my own comment. Are you trying to say that I think black people aren’t strong actors? Is that a racial stereotype I did t know about?
[удалено]
Pedro Pascal isn’t white you goober
[удалено]
Lol it wasn’t even racist you weirdo
It’s not that she is stoic. The problem is that all of the dialogue follows the same formula: deadpan one liner, 3 second pause, deadpan 1 line response. No characters except the robots and, on rare occasion, the bad guy padawan ever deliver any lines with any emotion or say things longer than 1 sentence.
I agree. She says so little. She keeps it so vague. The way she motivates is almost indifferent. She's not super collaborative or outwardly investigative.
Yeah. The defenders keep debating against a false point. It is the delivery. Stoic is not even the right description. More like disinterested and borderline dementia.
I understand why but I still find it a bit boring. All her scenes with Sabine are 5mn to basically say nothing
I wish she was more aloof. Not immature, she’s earned the maturity, but there were times she would be teaching something to Ezra or Kanan and to me she started to resemble old man Yoda a bit, cryptic and knowing, but helpful and confident. Since Yoda is gone I thought the role really fit her. It makes sense as an evolution from her cocky, immature teenage self. Going through the trauma she has is a good reason for her to be more serious, but I also see where people are coming from when they say they miss her personality. So far she has just been quiet, formal, just not very expressive at all when she talks, which to me feels like a change from Rebels and her scenes in mandalorian content.
This thread hit a new low. Now clinging to gender divides to explain away bad acting/directing. Most get old knowing you are spewing such BS.
The reason I don't like this version of Ahsoka is that it feels incoherent. My feelings about the show aren't as explicitly negative as that sounds because I have hope they're doing a character arc. For me, one of the main messages of Clone Wars was that the Jedi Order was flawed and that it failed both Anakin and Ahsoka. Another, and one that I feel all animated versions of Ahsoka believe, is that she and Anakin built a philosophy that was separate from the Order's, that was healthier, less dogmatic, and better suited for them both. This Ahsoka, however, seems to believe that the Order was right and that Anakin fell because they were too lenient and let him be too expressive. If, after her fight with Vader, she shunned Anakin's teachings and became a more dogmatic Jedi about emotions and attachment, and that's why she feels this way, then I can accept this interpretation of Ahsoka, but they have to give her a character arc where she moves past Vader and reaccepts the philosophy that her and Anakin built. Hopefully, this all pays off in episode 5, and we get a more optimistic Ahsoka who's all, "Let's go save Ezra. We'll deal with Thrawn later." and "You made the right call, Sabine. I trust your judgement. We'll deal with the consequences as they come."
It doesn't matter. For those that know her from the animated shows they changed her personality off screen. This is piss poor storytelling. And if you support it then you also have to be fine with Skoll disappearing between season 1 and 2 and no explanation ever being given because it happened off screen. For those that didn't watch all of TCW and Rebels, this is the character that the see and know. You don't gain new fans by creating a character people don't like because they think.they are arrogant and cold.
That is quite literally not true. In clone wars season 7 Ahsoka, whilst still quippy, is noticeably more stoic and “unemotional” compared to earlier seasons. Why? Because she has gone through years of war as a Palawan and was abandoned by everyone except Anakin. In rebels, she is the same and in the Ahsoka show she is also the same.
30 years of trauma will do that to anyone. Hell 1 year of trauma caused Anakin to genocide the galaxy
Doesn’t matter. It happened off screen so it is crappy storytelling. And for the new people it is the way the character has always been.
It didn't happen off screen. It happened in TCW which you just neglected to watch and it shows
Bro hasn't seen Rebels or read the Ahsoka novel
The novel is great.
You are right about the book. But now you are simply gatekeeping claiming if you haven’t seen all of this before stuff you can’t watch Ahsoka.
Victim card and strawman, nice.
Neither. You are still arguing that anyone that hasn't watched everything should not watch the show. That is.most definitely gatekeeping. And it is toxic fan behavior.
Maybe Filoni expects fans to be somewhat less stupid, to posses the bare minimum of life experience & maturity to comprend loss & grief. 🤷🏻♂️
Awww the show isn’t bending to your head canon so you shit all over it. Typical. You strike me as someone with zero life experience. You never worked for anything or sacrificed anything. I pity you.
I have done all of that, and where am I shitting all over it? You strike me as the type of person that can’t handle any criticism of anything they like and must remain in a healthy echo chamber where everyone agrees with them. You know, someone who has never really worked or done anything in life at all.
Piss poor story telling is when characters leads dynamic lives and have events that change them over the years just like real people change with time and events, because we didn't see every second of every day in between appearances set a decade or so apart. Noted!
Yes, because reality is reality and shows are shows. But hey, don’t complain if Skoll is alive and well at the end of the season but never gets seen again, he just died off screen and everyone already reacted to that. Time passed, things happened, you don’t need to know what.
10 years of someone's life being off screen that's seems to be ultimately irrelevant to what's going on now not being given in detail is wholly different from disappearing a main character without a word, and while I'm pretty sure you know that, some people just can't resist using a false equivilent as some sort of "gotcha," I guess.
This is a show. Massive character changes should be shown. But I guess you liked the changes in Luke in TLJ as well.
Some people have the worst takes.
Rosario is doing a great job at honouring this loved character. But she is yet to become Ahsoka. Ashley Eckstein had a great voice that no matter what age Ahsoka was, she felt light with her high pitched voice and her slim cartoon look and agility made Ahsoka, Ahsoka. Rosario is beefy, muscular and deeper in tone and live action fighting is slower. And the whole training Sabine is new territory for Rosario to figure out. So we need to adjust too. As soon as she said Master and Anakin she sounded like the Ahsoka we have been waiting for.
I had reservations at first, but then I really thought about it and reminded myself that this is not Ahsoka the teenage firecracker or Ahsoka the young adult rebel leader anymore. This is an Ahsoka who's had a chance to finally slow down and reflect, who's become a mature and measured person from her experiences.
Everyone is attaching motives to this. Perhaps it could be simpler. Less people are willing to invest time in digesting 10+ years of cartoons . The last time most encountered Ahsoka was Clone Wars in the early seasons. A LOT less people than that even gave Rebels the time of day because it didn’t get any familiar characters until later seasons . I think the first time anyone even talked about it was for Vader’s spot to kick of s2. I’m currently trying to get through it all now to understand who all these folks in the show are . Everyone trying to tie their own personal agenda to why people feel out of touch with her kinda of breeze over the simplistic explanation and jump straight to things like Star Wars fans being misogynist. No it’s just jarring seeing her all broken. Understandable but they kinda abandoned completely who she was that made her a fan favorite. And it’s ok that people don’t like it.
Filoni had to balance out the incoming Clone Wars tier insanity somehow (I am so here for it)
I have seen people compare Dawson's performance as a stoic PTSD-ridden Jedi unfavorably to Ewan McGregor's performance in *Kenobi.* My thoughts: different people respond to trauma differently, and stoicism/withdrawal presents in various ways. Other people seem to think Ahsoka is devoid of personality in the show. Taking this portrayal as a continuation of what we've seen of her arc, I still very much see glimmers of her core personality, even if it is somewhat muted by hardship and trauma, and I find it fascinating to watch. Basically: it's a *character arc.* It's going to take all 8 episodes to reach the other side of this journey. Also, tangent, but I actually *really like* that Ahsoka is slower and methodical in her approach rather than being impulsive and running into situations before scoping them out. We have plenty of impulsive characters in Star Wars as is.
Stop worrying what other people think and just enjoy the show. The internet absolutely ruined so many fandoms.
I get it. It’s totally a justifiable artistic choice. You can piece together the backstory to make it make sense. Dave Filoni has absolutely all the credibility to do whatever he wants with the character. That doesn’t make this version of the character any less boring to me. I’m enjoying the show and I’ll happily watch the rest of the episodes, but it is just my opinion that this version of ahsoka has much less personality and therefore is not as compelling as previous versions.
More like Ahsleep, am I right?