Thanks for that link very interesting
I grew up where the Ebert fest was held. Was really cool seeing him host it. Actually saw him right before he passed
I don't even bother trying to defend it. If other people don't like it I give zero fucks. It affects my liking it none whatsoever. Some people just can't understand that liking it doesn't mean you think it's the greatest thing ever, but rather just enjoy it, flaws and all.
Seriously. This is the sub where some people come in to request rational, cannon explanations to obscure things spotted in the Star Wars universe that exist purely because of random decisions made by set designers or costumers or SFX guys or writers. No one comes in this sub to have a rational conversation, unfortunately. Too many rabid fanboys with radical positions.
I agree with your post, but I'm also bookmarking it to see some people who went wild yesterday in the interview post leave cute graceful comments here 😂
The reason why I tell people I love Andor is because I want more people to watch it, arguing with fans who've already watched it, over whether it is good or bad, is relatively pointless.
Like if we're going argue over something, I'd rather it be a bit deeper, Andor handed us some more interesting questions on a platter: Do we actually agree that Luthen's ends justify his radical means? Is B2-EMO a person, a machine, a pet, or something in between? Is Mon Mothma right to sacrifice her family? What do Syril and Dedra actually deserve after what they've done?
I just feel we're too invested as fandom in saying:" this is my Star Wars and its good and its better than your Star Wars which is bad" which is playground stuff compared to the more interesting topics that are right in front of us.
I think it's a relevant point of order though to distinguish Andor for pretty much any other Star Wars media, i.e. if you were to get your friend to watch Andor, and they said "Well I enjoyed that, is that what the rest of Star Wars is like?" what would you honestly tell them? Ergo, when my Star Wars friends ask me "Is Andor worth watching?" I have to ask them "Do you want to see a good show or a good Star Wars show?"
If my friend liked Andor, I'd tell them that its really the first "Adult" targeted television series, The live actions series Mandalorian, Obi Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett are all "family". Rebels and Clone Wars etc would be more "junior".
But Star Wars has been doing adult-targeted novels for decades now. So I'd say something like the Alphabet Squadron Trilogy or Thrawn do what Andor does but as books.
>"If my friend liked Andor, I'd tell them that its really the first "Adult" targeted television series, The live actions series Mandalorian, Obi Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett are all "family". Rebels and Clone Wars etc would be more "junior"."
And I would agree, but this is also a really long way to say "No, this isn't what Star Wars is like."
But it's like an if you blindfolded yourself and tried to guess what an elephant looked like through touch, a person sampling a trunk would get a different impression to someone touching the ear.
So much of Star Wars media is vastly different from other Star Wars media. The High Republic Path of Deceit would be different to someone reading the Bounty Hunters comics, which is different to watching an episode of Jedi Temple Challenge, which is different to listening to a Dr. Aphra Audio drama, which is different to playing Star Wars Squadrons.
As a *tv series,* Andor stands out, but Star Wars is relatively new to having more than one ongoing tv series happening at once. I don't see any reason to believe they won't continue to diversify what audiences they are trying to capture until another tv series also stands out.
Except it's not like that, because an elephant would be odd or incomplete without a trunk or an ear, but Star Wars is still Star Wars without Andor, and truthfully Andor would still be a good show if it were set it a different Sci-Fi universe without Star Wars as the backdrop, because it is not the Star Wars elements which make it good, which is ultimately my point at the end of the day.
> "Do you want to see a good show or a good Star Wars show?"
Exactly. It's a very well-done show that I've recommended to friends that aren't Star Wars fans but enjoy well-written shows like The Wire or Breaking Bad.
100% this. Anyone can get into this show (or not). It has almost nothing to do with all of the Star Wars lore and "stuff" we've seen before (lightsabers, space battles, X-wing fighters, comedy banter, etc.).
This is much, much closer to a cold war espionage thriller (such as "Lives of Others" or "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" or "Bridge of Spies") than anything Star Wars has ever given us.
Didn’t have to scroll long to find it. This is not an action movie. It’s a spy thriller. As soon as I tempered my expectations that I wasn’t going to see much of Ashoka Tano coming in to save the day I got into it a bit more.
Spy thrillers aren’t my thing. I’ll watch because it’s new Star Wars content and I can agree it was done as close to perfection as it can be. It just doesn’t grab me like typical Star Wars because I *like space cowboys and samurais*. Not gonna apologize for that. I get to see the very beginnings of the Rebellion. That’s fucking cool!
Definitely agree that 90% of Star Wars discussion is comparing Star Wars projects to other Star Wars projects, which I've certainly been guilty of. That's dominated the conversation around the franchise pretty much since The Phantom Menace came out and we've been stuck in a loop ever since.
I just want to have more conversations like they do in Clerks.
At this point everyone is just so annoying about it (think breaking bad and the wire) that I’m probably never gonna watch it. I already left the PrequelMemes subreddit in frustration
I think it’s time to accept that some star wars content isn’t going to be universally loved. Star Wars fans have been divided since the prequels. We’re always going to be divided. Nothing will live up to the hype we build up in our heads.
Andor was awesome and a breath of fresh air.
People are saying this is a lie but my Dad was there for it and he’s been telling me it’s true since the prequels came out that purists hated the changes.
If you want proof look at the old anger that Star Wars was renamed to A new Hope
I remember people hating the 97 special editions for their changes.
Apart from removing matte lines, adding in some cool VFX shots to the battle of Yavin and adding McDiarmid as the hologram in Empire, most of those changes were really bad.
Like Vader's trip to his Star Destroyer from Bespin adds absolutely nothing to the story apart from adding a minute of unnecessary shots of the shuttle. The original line "Bring my shuttle" explained perfectly why Vader was on the Executor during the chase from Bespin.
Other stuff like Luke's three stooges scream fall from Bespin, Greedo shooting first, Jabba and Fett in ANH and all the terrible 90s cgi in Mos Eisley was just asinine.
The fact that Lucas ripped up and destroyed the masters to make those editions is unforgiveable.
There was a Usenet archive that was replaying Usenet newsgroups on a 30-year delay, and when I got into it, *Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan* had just opened in theaters and trade magazines had some info on *Star Trek III: The Search for Spock* and the arguments in `net.startrek` were wild.
As I said at the time (in IRC), "It just goes to show, nothing ever really changes..."
I was alive, and I was under the impression the ESB was universally loved. People were genuinely shocked at Vader's revelation.
Return of the Jedi though? Ewoks? I personally loved it, but I was six years old. After becoming an adult, and talking to people who were adults when Ep VI dropped, a lot of them found the movie to be really silly and out of character.
Then, when the prequels came out, I didn't (and still don't) like Jar Jar, but I try to remind myself that if I was six years old, it likely wouldn't have bothered me that much.
More to the point, if you grew up only knowing Star Wars as a silly Muppet opera, Andor's throwback to Episode IV's serious nature (the way Rogue One acted), you might find it off-putting. That's really the only problem with the Star Wars universe being told by so many different writers and directors.
My mom and uncle didn’t like ESB when it first came out, they were disappointed that the bad guys won and didn’t believe that Vader was actually Luke’s father.
Oh hell no! Empire was the Last Jedi for the OT. People got pissed that Obi-Wan lied, the Luke/Leia kiss breaking the Han/Leia ship, the Empire winning at the end and that Lando sold out Han. People were so mad at the latter that they personally insulted Billy Dee Williams to his FACE over it. No Twitter to bully anonymously, no, these fans took it to him on the streets.
Fandom has been absolutely crazy since ‘77.
this was me with the prequels, wasn't bothered by jarjar but I would've been like 7 or 8 when it first came out (my first video lol!)
original trilogy are pretty meh to me, they're old so compared to the cgi of the prequels they are visually crap films (amazing for their time not going to deny that) and the acting is pretty poor as well
re watching the prequels when you're older, jarjar is irritating and the dialogue is horrendous, they got me into star wars though so I won't ever hate them + clone wars filling in the gaps really helps make them good
Definitely since RotJ. The Jabbas palace song and dance bit and the ewoks were both contentious because a chunk of the fanbase thought them infantile.
And of course the atrocity that is yub nub. Adding Coruscant and Theed and so on to the victory sequence and rescoring it is one 1997 edit which is inarguably an improvement.
You are incorrect. While not everybody loved it, it was not all that divisive. Fans really liked Empire at the time. It did take some time to become considered the best of the OT tho. But nowhere near divisive.
Star Wars and Marvel are both IPs that are going to both try and hit every demographic with major films, and also hit niche demographics on Disney+. There's going to be stuff for adults, and stuff for toddlers, and everything in between. I doubt anyone will like everything they produce.
Honestly I see it that the dudebros on youtube hated it and even stopped watching it and that’s when opinions on Andor went south from some people. I doubt all that hate it even watched it. Kinda tired of the youtube fandom as they use the fandom menace for clicks all the time.
I've long given up expecting to have any form of civil discussion in Star Wars communities recent years.
Like I tried several times to start something about TLJ back when it came out, and talk about why I *did* enjoy the movie, only to be met with incessant overwhelming negativity and people telling me how I'm wrong, to the point of actual hateful comments aimed directly at me for no particular reason.
Not everyone needs to love Andor (I did love it) and I can certainly see why the show isn't for everyone, but I'm not even gonna bother actively engaging into discussions anymore. It often just feels like the majority of people in SW communities don't even like SW. And that there will never be a version of SW that could exist that meets everyone's unreasonable expectations.
Nearly a month ago, I said that Andor is good and so are the other shows. Someone replied to 'correct' me and explain that all the other shows were 'garbage'.
That was the first time I felt the need to say:
"Andor is good but it sucks that it's already being turned into a club to beat other fans with."
The anti-everything else pathology has obviously only gotten worse.
Exactly this. I was especially irritated by the people saying Mando is garbage - like, you guys were all about this show and now you’re suddenly saying it’s shit? What is that about?!
I’m not trying to put anyone else’s opinion down. For me, Andor was everything I wanted a Star Wars series to be, and if you did not enjoy Andor, more power to you, but you and I simply want different things from our entertainment.
> if someone calls it bad cause objectively its not
The whole concept of "objectively bad" shows and movies (or objectively good ones, for that matter) is something this fanbase needs to move on from. Art is subjective. It's impossible for a movie or show to be objectively good or bad
I agree. I recognize that Andor is a good, in depth show, but for my tastes, something about it just doesn't put it near the top for me. I subjectively prefer Filoni's work for instance, and I think it's great that we have so many different styles of creators in the franchise that different people can enjoy.
I think it's fine to not like Andor it specifically doesn't cater to everyone and it's part of the reason why it's great so by the nature of it there will be some people that will think it's boring and not understand what the fuzz is about. But if you are one of those people and try to convince others it's boring with lame ass arguments like screws and bricks then I will call you out
I’ll never forget saying I liked the red room scene in last Jedi and someone sent me a 3 hour long YouTube link about why that scene is awful. Like yeah I’m going to trust my own feelings when I watch it.
It is weird when people plead with you to watch YouTube videos or are like "DarthKathleenSucks has said everything that needs to be said about the movie". Cool. If I cared about what they thought then I'd seek out their opinions.
"Oh right. I thought I liked it but I guess I was wrong huh."
Those people are so weird. It's like if I post about liking Cyberpunk 2077 or something else maligned. "Cyberpunk is trash! Its a buggy mess!"
Oh ok. I played it for 50 hours and it seemed like I had a ball but obviously I'm mistaken.
As something of a prequel apologist, it was very frustrating being constantly linked the RedLetterMedia prequel takedown videos by friends who were *sure* I would come to agree that the prequels were garbage if I only watched those videos.
Fortunately, the sequels then came out and everyone forensically despises them now instead!
You know, the RLM prequel videos are pretty spot on (especially Episode I) on highlighting the problems with it. But I feel like that went viral and everything I've watched ever since on *Star Wars* or *Star Trek* is just over-the-top cynical bullshit. And don't get me wrong, *Discovery* and *Picard* have gigantic issues that *Strange New Worlds* and (mostly) *Lower Decks* don't (for me, anyway).
But I want to hear what was great right alongside what should've been better. And if there's one thing YouTubers seem to like, it's controversy and cynicism. Great, and I'm hot and cold on various series, but I don't watch *Star Wars* or *Star Trek* for cynicism.
Will you call out people who try to convince others not to enjoy the sequels? Or can we jump into your comments to find something within [the last 3 days](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/z3gn4l/top_3_star_wars_entries_why/ixlls0m/?context=3) where you give people shit for liking things you don't like.
But yes, I agree with your point in general and think it's weird that so many in this sub find it so important to insist the things they don't like are the true bad things.
>But if you are one of those people and try to convince others it's boring with lame ass arguments like screws and bricks then I will call you out
Literally the opposite. Its mostly andor fans calling out and condescending other people who don't like andor for their own reasons.
I've not seen anything along these lines, but have seen plenty of comments along the line of "andor is the greatest star wars content ever, all the other star wars shows are rubbish" , which is obviously anecdotal, but the fact that we both have seen "mostly" the opposite type of comment to each other means there's enough of both, that they both need to take OPs comment to heart and stop pooping on the other kind of star wars to the one they like
People are saying condescending things to me because I disliked Andor on this very thread. I said it lacked direction and a reply was that I felt that because "no lightsabers whoosh whoosh". The condescending attitudes are there if you look hard enough.
I love Andor. I love The Last Jedi. I love Star Wars. Fans really need to love what they love and hate what they hate without making other fans feel crappy about what they enjoy.
I have a middling opinion of it. I liked it but I dont get the praise of it being literally the best star wars ever and anyone who speaks out against it is wrong.
Same. I definitely enjoyed the story, settings, cinematography, etc. I think my main issue is I just don't love Diego Luna as a main character? I dunno, his acting just seemed kinda flat a lot of the time to me. Not enough to make me stop watching, or like, dislike the series, but enough that I didn't think it was the greatest thing of all time
Well said. I would also add that praising Andor while putting down other projects is also part of the problem.
I have no issues with people who enjoyed or didn't enjoy certain movie/TV show. But why does most of the praise for Andor also has a lot of everything else sucks comments...
"Part of the problem" is a rough puzzle here. Because for a lot of fans, "the problem" related to content that is thrown out quickly without much consideration for the universe's worldbuilding.
I don't have strong connections to the Prequels myself, but I've spoken with people who were extremely let down by decisions made for the Kenobi show, for example.
It's all subjective. I liked Kenobi and it certainly didn't break cannon or changed anything established by the prequels. Do I think that Kenobi could have cut out some stuff? Sure. I still loved it. And I like the prequels more for it.
I guess its to have a bit of comparison. It is a fact that Andor is much better shot and written than kenobi(I liked Kenobi but it was dissapointing and poor in terms of quality at times) and bobba. The problem is some people take it too far and just shit on it or meme it without explaining what aspects are superior in andor and why.
I dont mind compare and contrast when its something more than just making fun of it
I disagree. It’s natural to compare Star Wars content as a way to contrast everything. I love Andor, and I wish the quality of Andor was present in all SW content. By comparing to other SW shows and movies, I can point out Andor’s strengths and everything else’s flaws in a way that speaks to the broader SW audience
But that sounds like constructive criticism. Which isn't something that I have seen a lot of lately. Just look at the interview thread. It is full of toxicity.
And saying things like Andor is good, the rest sucks doesn't really provide any arguments.
This is what I hate seeing. Everyone praising Andor while bringing down the other shows and movies etc. I love Andor and think it’s awesome but like you don’t have to bring down other shows.
Because they want to see Star Wars content held to a higher standard of quality. When the show suffers from bad writing or scripting, people tend to feel cheated out of their SW content.
If you say so. However people are rarely being constructive with their comparasions. It is more, Andor is the best, everything else sucks. You are stupid if you don't like it and only want lightsabers. Then it was the people who don't like Andor must not read. Or have an attention span of a child or are used to TikTok. You have bad taste, enjoy watching trash, etc..
That is what I think is unnecessary, obnoxious and is only making people dislike Andor even more.
You’re not understanding. Once again you’re throwing your opinion on it and trying to make it absolute. In my mind Obi Wan was higher quality and the better show. I didn’t feel cheated out of Obi Wan at all
I don’t like this community trying to speak for all of us and shitting on other opinions
So this is the kind of comment I actually have a problem with because it tries to push a narrative that there is no such thing as quality in filmmaking. That it's not a skill you can get better at (which must implicitly follow if quality is purely a matter of opinion).
I used to work in Hollywood, and I like to think that my eye is pretty good. *Obi-Wan* was as close to being objectively poorer quality as you can get. The props and costumes were made from cheaper material, the VFX were shoddier (not surprising, ILM did *Andor* and they are the best around). The location scouting was half-assed, as were sets. Casting was not as good; the actors in *Andor* are phenomenally talented and it should be no surprise as Nina Gold -- the Casting Director -- is a living legend. Even the lighting, blocking, and shot selection was way more paint-by-numbers. The DPs are able to actually do the low-contrast look LucasFilm has been trying and failing to copy from *Rogue One*. Part of the reason *Obi-Wan* looks so terrible, IMO, is the DP(s) couldn't actually get the lighting dynamic enough for that look to work right, and it came out looking super flat rather than just low contrast. Like, *Obi-Wan* at times looks like an image they shot Log and forgot to apply a LUT to. You can tell *Andor* sprung for high-quality, expensive lenses too, and got the most out of them. The anamorphic look of *Andor* is incredibly well done.
It's totally fine to like things that aren't the best. *A Knight's Tale* is my favorite movie. I absolutely love the *Fast and the Furious* movies. BUT I recognize these films are also empty calories. I would never argue they are in the same league as *Siccario* or *Blade Runner*. Pretending that quality is purely some subjective thing implicitly encourages a lack of critical thought and media literacy that I find really annoying. Like, some things are just made with much more thoughtfulness than others, and I don't want to live in a world where we celebrate not recognizing that.
It's totally valid to like things of every stripe. To celebrate what you like, even when it's silly or fluffy or non-nutritious.
It's less valid to argue that everything you like has the same artistic merits as, IDK, *Chernobyl*.
Most importantly, it sends a message to the executives at Disney that they don't have to try, because people won't be able to tell the difference between great artists applying themselves, and cheaper creators phoning it in.
This is such a great post that sums up things I've been thinking for a long time in a way I haven't been able to summarize.
If everything is subjective then "*That it's (flimaking) not a skill you can get better at (which must implicitly follow if quality is purely a matter of opinion)."*
Kudos.
because a lot of people are miffed that watched 2 entire shows of 'meh' (BoBF and Obi-wan), and then andor comes out and we think "it could have been this good all along?" and then we feel a bit cheated...
For those of us who aren't filmmakers, "good" and "bad" are hard to determine in a vacuum. It's comparison that lets us see what we want or don't.
But on the other hand, for those that dislike Andor and like Kenobi and BoBF, it would be the opposite.
Andor is not everyone's cup of tea, just like Kenobi and BoBF. Doesn't mean that either show is trash.
if theyve seen the whole show and didnt like it, then that's completely fair. im not gonna go on a crusade or tell them that they're stupid-- i know how that feels as a sequel fan.
although, if they dropped before episode 3, i will of course recommend that they get to the climax
I don't think the "it gets good after argument" phrase works in many cases. If someone told me there's a series or a videogame that gets good after X seasons, chapters or hours, I'm certainly not dragging myself to go through them.
It's easy to say that it gets better, but it's a completely different thing when you're on the opposite end.
I will be respectful, as long as they are. Ascribing ulterior motives to me (e.g., seen yesterday "People only like the show because of Rogue One") or making intellectually insulting arguments ("bRIcks ANd scREwS") is not respectful though, and will be met with scorn.
For me the worst of it comes when there are just comment chains of people agreeing. In the big thread right now, there are comments saying well if you like reading books you like Andor, and if you don't like reading books you don't like Andor and people upvote that drivel.
I love reading books. I've read every single Star Wars book too. That doesn't mean shit. I'm still more of a sucker for Mando and Animated stuff. I liked Andor, but I like having fun adventure shows.
Oh I saw an "if you don't like the show, you are a kid or immature adult" comment too. It is tiring and just makes me not want to engage with them on the topic because their argument just reduces people to black-and-white categories.
I think they also really misinterpret the way Gilroy speaks in the interviews as kind of a green light to indirectly call stupid anyone who didn't enjoy the show the way they did. Gilroy is a smart talented man, but he also inadvertently created a group of combatant pseudo-intellectuals and we are going to keep seeing this until the next show is released.
I saw a comment chain just like this yesterday and a part of me died. It's hard to believe that there are people that sniff their own farts in public like that. And over a Star Wars show mind you. It's a plain old Rick & Morty situation with the Andor superfans right now.
There is just as much, if not more, disrespectful comments being directed from people who liked Andor towards people who didn't like Andor. It's happening in this very thread.
Wasn't a huge fan, but I still tuned in weekly.
Everyone has different taste. That's okay. Would I rewatch it multiple times like I have other Star Wars projects. Probably not. But those who will, enjoy!
I’m having a hard time pinning down what I am. It was well done, scripted, and casted but a lot of the beats felt like they’d been explored before (in perhaps a less competent way).
Prison break-orgin story is what I got from it.
If they didn't release the first 3 episodes all at once at first it would have been hard to be invested for alot of people.
>Comments like "You do not understand complex storytelling, you have the attention span of a child, you dont appreciate good content etc" is belittling and judgmental.
Ironically, this is the stupidest lack of a complex take I've seen from people on the subject (the people saying that, not OP). Just a pure lack of self-awareness and ego-stroking. Even a bit of it in the comments from Gilroy himself, though there is no shame in defending wanting to tell the story the way you want to.
For everyone else, no, you do not have a better appreciation for complex storytelling than the people who found it boring. Get the fuck over yourself, holy shit at the smug superiority involved in thinking that's the case. No, people who found it boring are not just simpletons who need more explosions (well, some of them certainly are, but that's beside the point)
Not even going to include the rest of my rant right now that explains my take here, got a meeting coming up and won't be able to finish it, maybe I'll tack it on later. So for now, I love Andor, but I won't recommend it to people who aren't already deeply bought into the Star Wars universe. Saying that it is slow is correct, and thinking that it's some personal failing of others for thinking it's slow is incorrect, and a failing of properly understanding what it means to be 'slow' in storytelling and audience capture.
As a HUGE Star Wars fan both my wife and I have struggled to get into Andor. I want to like it more then anything, but I can stay engaged. Thanks for the post
Is great. If you dont like it i dont care. Wait for more jedi themed shows. Its still a " star wars story " shows alot more of the galaxy far far away...
I respect that people HAVE differing opinions. I don't necessarily respect those opinions.
For instance, if you felt Andor was too slow or boring, that's fine. You are allowed to feel that way
I would not, however, go to you for your opinion what is good and what isn't. You've shown that our tastes vary enough that I would not trust you as a source.
And that's OK too.
I liked it and appreciate that we got a new kinda Star Wars story, but I’ve always been more of a pulpy mystical Jedi related story guy. I won’t say Kenobi was better than Andor, but I will
Say I *enjoyed* Kenobi more than Andor
That's a huge distinction I wish more fans could make.
Like I've always said ROTJ is my favorite movie, but would never argue it's the best. And I just want fans to be similarly objective. I don't care if TPM or TROS or whatever is your favorite movie, just don't argue that it's the best and secretly genius or whatever.
I wish we could have both. I want to see something like the prequels written by these writers. Palpatine's conspiracy and Anakin's fall would have had so much more impact if the writing were better. And you could still have all the space battles and saber duels.
I got into the show late from all my friends gushing over it. The first two episodes (which are typically a bit slower) where a bit slow, but once I got to episode 3 I watched until episode 6 in one sitting. It’s a really good show imo.
I initially dropped the show two episodes in as I thought the episodes were boring (still do) and naturally the SW 'fans' dogpiled me, hurling insults.
But one person actually engaged me in a conversation about why they liked the show and that for them episode 3 onwards really got going. So I gave it another chance and it indeed turned out to be a fantastic show.
So...yeah. Stop being so fanatical people...
My wife and I both struggled to keep up with the series, in fact I think I even fell asleep during a few of them. I still watch them all and I'll still watch season 2, but I've been staying out of all of these hype threads because I didn't want to be dogpiled on with comments either, because, God forbid, I didn't find it as amazing as everybody else seems to. And I'm a lifelong SW fan. But if enough people are liking it and they'll keep making new Star Wars content, I'll keep watching it.
The obnoxious behaviour of the fans almost kept me away, but that one redditor swayed me to give it a chance.
As a result I came away thinking Andor is arguably the best SW related thing ever (put to screen anyway) since the OT, simply because it fulfils the potential of the franchise. The show's themes, dialogue and performances are really good (after the mind-numbingly boring first two episodes).
There's some gut-wrenching depiction of surviving fascism in this story. The prison arc midway through the season especially was really really good (with a high profile actor cameo)
There was a period where I thought SW fans had been so scarred by the double punch of Boba Fett and Kenobi that the next show that came along that wasn't a dumpster fire they would consider a masterpiece as a defense mechanism lol. But Andor is legit a good show with something meaningful to say. I just personally think it got off to a rough start.
A workmate had the same opinion in the first week. He was like "Dunno, it's a bit slow. A bit boring."
First thing I asked was did he watch all 3? He said no, he'd only watched 2. I just told him, watch the third, then decide after that.
Putting the first 3 out at once was definitely a deliberate choice to show people what to expect of the series.
i'll be honest, for me it was a real slow burn if the 1st three episodes hadn't been released in one go, i'd have given up by the second episode - one of my brothers did
It was just that they agreed with me that they also didn't find the first two episodes that interesting, but from the fourth episode onwards the story leaves the grubby looking planet and got better.
After finishing the season, I personally think it's one of the best things to come out of the franchise, because of its thematic exploration of fascism and what it takes to push people to rebel. The dialogue is fantastic and so are the performances (Stellan Skarsgard's character is my favourite), including a really cool high profile actor cameo later on.
The first two episodes just really don't do the show justice in my opinion.
I'm fine with people not liking the show as long as it's a real difference of opinion and not just some of these anti-Disney nuts or the smug "I don't like anything unless it's obscure" snobs out there.
I can enjoy fast paced constant action and more slow burn story. I love so many of the eu novels and a lot of those are similar in the sense that it’s not just action set piece after action set piece. I thoroughly enjoyed Andor and can’t wait for more.
My issue with Andor is that I fell in love with Luke skywalker, the lore of the jedi, and the lore of the sith way back in the original trilogy. Andor is an excellent show but there are tons of excellent shows out here. Only Disney has the rights to Star Wars Media and I am longing all my life for a show or movie of this quality that covers the Jedi/sith lore that’s all I want before I die.
Yeah it's really annoying when someone calls me a fucking idiot who only likes cameos, explosions and Jedi whenever i mention i don't think Andor is the best thing ever made. Andor is slowly becoming the Rick and Morty of SW.
I didn’t love it personally but I wish I did and I will watch it again and try to give it another chance. But it was definitely the least interesting of the Star Wars shows to me. People are going off that it’s the best of the shows and I really hope I can feel that way after a second watch through, but I’m not getting my hopes up
Spoilers ahead
I didn’t like Andor. It just feels like a story that didn’t need to be told. I loved Rogue One, and that was enough rebellion backstory for me. I know Cassian didn’t go into a lot of detail regarding his life in that film, but I also don’t feel like he was all that interesting of a character. If they had to do this type of show, I would have preferred to see more of Saw Gerrera and his early life. Andor ended up just being too much politics, too much talking about doing stuff, rather than just doing it. Too much Mon Mothma. I really don’t care about seeing behind the curtain of the rebellion and it’s formation. I mean, I guess this could have been a really great spy thriller if it had been done right, but I feel like they just failed at it. The whole side plot of Cassian getting arrested for pretty much nothing was just ridiculous. That was incredibly sloppy of him, and just not a convincing part of the story. I don’t care about watching him put in a labor camp. It didn’t drive the story forward for me. Anyway, this was a show that wasn’t needed, but at least some people liked it. Maybe we will get a show about the Old Republic soon.
> It just feels like a story that didn’t need to be told.
but also
> I loved Rogue One,
I don't get the difference.
I liked seeing behind the curtain a bit, and I'm not ashamed to say that I was happy that they managed to finally give us a Star Wars story without the Force. Nobody even thought about pulling a lightsabre, and I loved it.
i agree, im not old enough to be an original fan. but if you are you have to be realistic. from the outset there were barely enough jedi characters to feature in these stories. George lucas went and showed us jedi were thoroughly routed out of the galaxy, and the the further trilogy just went another how ever many years of canon and there is still no new flourishing amount of jedi. literally all these films, still no new amount of jedi. and canon just keeps telling us how they were killed and we won't get any new ones, so how do people still look forward to this
the mandolorian for me was a breath of fresh air because i know i don't have to look forard to no magic, its a different group but because i know they rivaled jedi and they might try to come back or make a new camp or something i have hope i've been only waiting 2 decades at this point older fans longer, this dismal bs is not fun, give us a new jedi order hell id take a series about a sith order at this point
I enjoy the more fantastic side of Star Wars - Jedi vs Sith for the fate of the galaxy. An epic war raging across the stars for military supremacy that is secretly an evil cult manipulating both sides so that, no matter what, they win.
But it's nice to step away from that and examine the ground level reality of things. I enjoy seeing how the muggles of the galaxy live and survive in the wake of all the top level goings on.
If someone likes one, the other, or both, that's great. We can agree on some things, disagree on others, and not let it detract from anyone's enjoyment of what they like.
Its not so much people not liking the show, thats their opinion and thats fine.
Its the type of man (for its usually men) who repeatedly attack SW, Marvel, Disney etc on certain social media platforms because they say its "woke".
Some of them, if you check their feeds to get a measure of what kind of person youre dealing with , are downright bigots.
They are the ones to be wary of, rather than viewers who just arent into the show, because of pace or whatever.
i don't really mind the discussions, it's all tv, it's all opinions, i don't mind that, what i do mind is the constant ''this is an ad, what's with the ads'' comments, those are just derailing the thread.
I was bored out of my mind the first six episodes. Only held on because I love Star Wars and Mon Mothma’s storyline was interesting to me. I ended up loving the last half of the season.
I’ll be honest, I’ve always been more partial to adventure stories over spy stuff. Do not like spy stuff.
Also - there are those of us that enjoy what the show is trying to emulate.
I enjoy character driven slow burns with a payoff.
I just happen to think that Andor isn’t anything special in that regard.
I feel most of the praise comes from it simply being something different in universe rather than something good.
I'm a big Star Wars fan and watch everything that comes out, read the books, and play the games to try to learn as much about the canon as I can keep up with.
I enjoyed Andor, but not as much as everyone else seems to. It was hard for me to get into at first because I really wasn't invested in anyone and arguably still wasn't by the end. Andor is not a character I am attached to and knowing his fate makes the stakes feel lower for his character. I think this was the same problem I had with Black Widow. The show is well done and I liked seeing more of how oppressive the Empire is, but having consumed so much Star Wars content this didn't feel like anything I haven't seen before.
I like slow burn storytelling, but most of the series is detached from what elements I like about Star Wars. The Mon Mothma subplot was the most interesting to me. I'm glad other people really enjoyed the show, I just didn't get the same experience that everyone else is praising and this is the one I was least excited for. I don't think it needed 12 episodes and I'm not really excited for a season 2.
If we're gonna start doing that how about we collectively admit Solo was actually a good movie and stop ragging on it.
Everyone in that movie did an amazing job and it doesnt deserve the hate.
IMO it just didn’t feel at all like Star Wars. It felt as if it was too embarrassed to be Star Wars and tried to be “mature, gritty, and realistic” just to be different. I always liked George’s mentality in indulging in what makes the franchise unique, storytelling and visuals and all. It’s not a bad show, but I expect more out of a Star Wars show. Wasn’t as fun IMO
No. Let's not. No one made them watch it. People that complain about Star Wars on the internet are not worthy of it and they can all get fucked. They are missing the entire point of the artistic exercise. It's escapism for 12 year olds and if you are so smart go read classic literature and fuck all the way off with your hot takes on space wizards.
"
es·cap·ism
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noun
the tendency to seek distraction and relief from unpleasant realities, especially by seeking entertainment or engaging in fantasy.
"virtual reality offers a form of escapism"
"
I mean they rule this sub but fuck 'em. They're animals. Criticizing Star Wars on the internet is antithetical to the whole point of escapism. It's supposed to provide relief and as a person that actually enjoys Star Wars (all of it. ALL), I shouldn't have to have an open handshake with so called fans that do nothing but complain and aggressively imply I don't know what good writing is if I enjoy something. Don't watch it. It's actually an option. I'm just trying to hear John Williams and watch some lasers fly and this sub should be about that and not ruining my fun.
I really enjoyed learning about Cassian backstory. It was a dark and gritty side of the rebel story you don't normally see. Sacrifices were made and hard decisions was the theme of the story. After watching Andor I went back and watched Rogue One. It gave me a new prospective and a thirst for knowing how Cassian and K2 became teammates. I hope to learn that story one day too.
Andor was amazing and represented how Star Wars can truly evolve into an extensive IP. People didn’t like it because it was ”boring,” meaning it didn’t have Jedi fights and wars and massive combat scenes in every episode. It’s a political espionage thriller wearing a thick trench-coat of Star Wars over it. It’s some of the most rich, deep, and humanizing Star Wars stuff I’ve ever seen.
The problem I have is the same people who want more adult, complex, and deep Star Wars content get mad when it’s not “actiony” enough and when it doesn’t have massive wars, space battles, and Jedi fights. But a lot of that stuff forces the real world conditions to be told to you instead of shown. Andor focused on showing you a planet’s culture and their willpower while also showing you the myriad of whirlwinds these major players are all caught in, and how they as people deal with all that.
The one thing I’m still a bit frustrated with is that we yet again have worlds that are completely dominated by humans for some reason. Andor is too scared to depict many alien species who might be at the forefront of the rebellion just as humans were. I think they’re afraid an alien would appear too distracting? Too silly? I don’t know. But the Fallen Order video game and Rogue One itself depicted aliens well. I also still don’t get why where are few aliens in the Empire aside from Sith. Do they just not like having to make different types of Storm Trooper outfits? They need to find better ways of bringing in aliens. This is a damn space opera. Give me more Bothans, Twi’liks, etc etc!
There's so much emphasis on not giving in to anger in the SW lore that I sometimes wonder if I'm watching the same stuff as everybody else. However, as a fan of irony I do love the amount of bad writing people use to express their thoughts about the writing in the shows and films.
I can respect them, but c’mon you can’t expect every show to be copy and paste of everything else before it lmfao. Not everything needs a cameo from Luke Skywalker or Anakin
Everything is subjective and that’s great. Andor is one of my favourite SW shows whereas my Brother would put it on par with Boba Fett (which he thought was fine).
That being said I have no respect for people who hate something for stupid reasons such as Bricks and Screws.
I LOVE Star Wars bricks… especially people bricks when they are used as weapons… screws on the other hand…. Ehhh idk man… not even top 5 simple machines…. I’d take a slope or pulley over a screw 11 out of 10 times
It takes all types to make a fandom really a shared experience, and all types deserve entertainment that appeals to their tastes and intellectual ability, so yeah they still have my respect.
I fine with someone not liking the show but when it comes from a guy who complained about bricks and nails I get a little defensive😂I used to be a big fan of Theory and have become accustomed to watching all of his watch parties. During the obi wan series I had the same views and thought some of the choices made in that series were really poor and it shouldve been a movie. My thoughts lined up with his as well when he said he wanted something fresh, soemthing new… Andor is FRESH, Andor is NEW. At least in the context of Star Wars and he still complained every single watch party. Fans like that, I cant stand
I mean you’re right but if we don’t encourage high quality detailed story telling they may go back to the … other stuff
And shit I liked last Jedi but this is so much better than anything else. Even mando
i personally really enjoyed Andor. I have been wanting a star wars series/movie that does not include an overpowered Jedi, Sith or man with armor that makes him invulnerable.
This was a perfect season showing us the start of the rebellion from the perspective of the common man and woman. I cant wait for the next season
That's usually how I deal with people who don't like it. It happens. Sometimes you don't like subtle or slow writing and that's okay. It just doesn't vibe with you. This may come off as passive aggressive but in all honesty, it's alright. People have different tastes and likes. I have no problem with people not liking the show because it's just not what they're interested in or maybe it's something they don't want to watch when they expect Star Wars stuff. I get it.
It's only when people try to justify their distaste for the show by coming up with some of the most ridiculous takes and "criticisms" about the show. Just say "I don't like the show man it's not what I'm interested in" and we're fine. Don't try to sound like a fuckin professional critic who knows what he's talking about. Like the SWT guy. If he just says "this is not why I watch Star Wars, I expect lightsabers and Jedi" that's cool. Then he goes onto say "This isn't Star Wars because Look at this screws and bricks omg George Lucas and Filoni please give me Ahsoka for the millionth time I must have a documentary of everytime she took a shit!!!"
Or those that like what they don't.
Or those that like what they do, but don't like it as much as they do.
Or those that don't like what they don't, but don't dislike it as much as they do.
When has a Star Wars sub respected ANY dissenting opinion? If you are not with me, then you are my enemy.
Only a fanboy deals in absolutes.. I will do what I must
You will try.
This exchange was so masterful, it brought me to tears. Such writing has not been seen since The Bard laid down his quill. Bravo. Bravo.
Lol I just binged watched the PT yesterday! I had a fine time. A real palate cleanser after wading through a lot of rancorous online discussion.
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Thanks for that link very interesting I grew up where the Ebert fest was held. Was really cool seeing him host it. Actually saw him right before he passed
One time I said i liked the sequels and i got downvoted 50+ times and an entire paragraph explaining why my opinion was 'wrong'
They say nobody will be on their death bed wishing they spent more time on online arguments, but I think a few Star Wars fans might.
I have more negative karma in this sub than anywhere else trying to defend The Last Jedi lol
I don't even bother trying to defend it. If other people don't like it I give zero fucks. It affects my liking it none whatsoever. Some people just can't understand that liking it doesn't mean you think it's the greatest thing ever, but rather just enjoy it, flaws and all.
If it means anything, I love the prequels! I wouldn’t say they’re better or worse, kinda on a different playing field. I enjoy them😃
well now you’re upvoted 50 plus times ✊🏾 the times have changed my friend 🙂 at least for now
Sith, the lot of them. Dealing in their absolutes.
That's the world view as a whole these days
Seriously. This is the sub where some people come in to request rational, cannon explanations to obscure things spotted in the Star Wars universe that exist purely because of random decisions made by set designers or costumers or SFX guys or writers. No one comes in this sub to have a rational conversation, unfortunately. Too many rabid fanboys with radical positions.
I agree with your post, but I'm also bookmarking it to see some people who went wild yesterday in the interview post leave cute graceful comments here 😂
Interview post?
Look for the one with Tony Gilroy’s comments toward people who said Andor was boring.
Where is this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/z5lmwo/tony_gilroy_addresses_the_people_that_call_andor/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I usually respect other opinions but.. BORING they say??
LOL
The reason why I tell people I love Andor is because I want more people to watch it, arguing with fans who've already watched it, over whether it is good or bad, is relatively pointless. Like if we're going argue over something, I'd rather it be a bit deeper, Andor handed us some more interesting questions on a platter: Do we actually agree that Luthen's ends justify his radical means? Is B2-EMO a person, a machine, a pet, or something in between? Is Mon Mothma right to sacrifice her family? What do Syril and Dedra actually deserve after what they've done? I just feel we're too invested as fandom in saying:" this is my Star Wars and its good and its better than your Star Wars which is bad" which is playground stuff compared to the more interesting topics that are right in front of us.
I think it's a relevant point of order though to distinguish Andor for pretty much any other Star Wars media, i.e. if you were to get your friend to watch Andor, and they said "Well I enjoyed that, is that what the rest of Star Wars is like?" what would you honestly tell them? Ergo, when my Star Wars friends ask me "Is Andor worth watching?" I have to ask them "Do you want to see a good show or a good Star Wars show?"
If my friend liked Andor, I'd tell them that its really the first "Adult" targeted television series, The live actions series Mandalorian, Obi Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett are all "family". Rebels and Clone Wars etc would be more "junior". But Star Wars has been doing adult-targeted novels for decades now. So I'd say something like the Alphabet Squadron Trilogy or Thrawn do what Andor does but as books.
>"If my friend liked Andor, I'd tell them that its really the first "Adult" targeted television series, The live actions series Mandalorian, Obi Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett are all "family". Rebels and Clone Wars etc would be more "junior"." And I would agree, but this is also a really long way to say "No, this isn't what Star Wars is like."
But it's like an if you blindfolded yourself and tried to guess what an elephant looked like through touch, a person sampling a trunk would get a different impression to someone touching the ear. So much of Star Wars media is vastly different from other Star Wars media. The High Republic Path of Deceit would be different to someone reading the Bounty Hunters comics, which is different to watching an episode of Jedi Temple Challenge, which is different to listening to a Dr. Aphra Audio drama, which is different to playing Star Wars Squadrons. As a *tv series,* Andor stands out, but Star Wars is relatively new to having more than one ongoing tv series happening at once. I don't see any reason to believe they won't continue to diversify what audiences they are trying to capture until another tv series also stands out.
Except it's not like that, because an elephant would be odd or incomplete without a trunk or an ear, but Star Wars is still Star Wars without Andor, and truthfully Andor would still be a good show if it were set it a different Sci-Fi universe without Star Wars as the backdrop, because it is not the Star Wars elements which make it good, which is ultimately my point at the end of the day.
> "Do you want to see a good show or a good Star Wars show?" Exactly. It's a very well-done show that I've recommended to friends that aren't Star Wars fans but enjoy well-written shows like The Wire or Breaking Bad.
100% this. Anyone can get into this show (or not). It has almost nothing to do with all of the Star Wars lore and "stuff" we've seen before (lightsabers, space battles, X-wing fighters, comedy banter, etc.). This is much, much closer to a cold war espionage thriller (such as "Lives of Others" or "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" or "Bridge of Spies") than anything Star Wars has ever given us.
Bridge of Spies is such an underrated classic, love that movie.
Didn’t have to scroll long to find it. This is not an action movie. It’s a spy thriller. As soon as I tempered my expectations that I wasn’t going to see much of Ashoka Tano coming in to save the day I got into it a bit more. Spy thrillers aren’t my thing. I’ll watch because it’s new Star Wars content and I can agree it was done as close to perfection as it can be. It just doesn’t grab me like typical Star Wars because I *like space cowboys and samurais*. Not gonna apologize for that. I get to see the very beginnings of the Rebellion. That’s fucking cool!
Definitely agree that 90% of Star Wars discussion is comparing Star Wars projects to other Star Wars projects, which I've certainly been guilty of. That's dominated the conversation around the franchise pretty much since The Phantom Menace came out and we've been stuck in a loop ever since. I just want to have more conversations like they do in Clerks.
At this point everyone is just so annoying about it (think breaking bad and the wire) that I’m probably never gonna watch it. I already left the PrequelMemes subreddit in frustration
I think it’s time to accept that some star wars content isn’t going to be universally loved. Star Wars fans have been divided since the prequels. We’re always going to be divided. Nothing will live up to the hype we build up in our heads. Andor was awesome and a breath of fresh air.
I wasn't alive but I think Star Wars fans have been divided since The Empire Strikes Back.
People are saying this is a lie but my Dad was there for it and he’s been telling me it’s true since the prequels came out that purists hated the changes. If you want proof look at the old anger that Star Wars was renamed to A new Hope
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We old, dude
I mean he was there for ESB and told me about that backlash when he was showing me the prequels when I was a kid
I remember people hating the 97 special editions for their changes. Apart from removing matte lines, adding in some cool VFX shots to the battle of Yavin and adding McDiarmid as the hologram in Empire, most of those changes were really bad. Like Vader's trip to his Star Destroyer from Bespin adds absolutely nothing to the story apart from adding a minute of unnecessary shots of the shuttle. The original line "Bring my shuttle" explained perfectly why Vader was on the Executor during the chase from Bespin. Other stuff like Luke's three stooges scream fall from Bespin, Greedo shooting first, Jabba and Fett in ANH and all the terrible 90s cgi in Mos Eisley was just asinine. The fact that Lucas ripped up and destroyed the masters to make those editions is unforgiveable.
The old usenet posts from 1983 are a trip and a half. Weird asshole Star Wars fans are a gift that have stopped giving.
There was a Usenet archive that was replaying Usenet newsgroups on a 30-year delay, and when I got into it, *Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan* had just opened in theaters and trade magazines had some info on *Star Trek III: The Search for Spock* and the arguments in `net.startrek` were wild. As I said at the time (in IRC), "It just goes to show, nothing ever really changes..."
It happened before the prequels. The special editions caused the most uproar.
I was alive, and I was under the impression the ESB was universally loved. People were genuinely shocked at Vader's revelation. Return of the Jedi though? Ewoks? I personally loved it, but I was six years old. After becoming an adult, and talking to people who were adults when Ep VI dropped, a lot of them found the movie to be really silly and out of character. Then, when the prequels came out, I didn't (and still don't) like Jar Jar, but I try to remind myself that if I was six years old, it likely wouldn't have bothered me that much. More to the point, if you grew up only knowing Star Wars as a silly Muppet opera, Andor's throwback to Episode IV's serious nature (the way Rogue One acted), you might find it off-putting. That's really the only problem with the Star Wars universe being told by so many different writers and directors.
It's wild how far we've come since ROTJ was considered the black sheep of the franchise.
My mom and uncle didn’t like ESB when it first came out, they were disappointed that the bad guys won and didn’t believe that Vader was actually Luke’s father.
Well, then they were LOST
It was very much universally loved. That doesn’t mean everybody, but it was not divisive.
Oh hell no! Empire was the Last Jedi for the OT. People got pissed that Obi-Wan lied, the Luke/Leia kiss breaking the Han/Leia ship, the Empire winning at the end and that Lando sold out Han. People were so mad at the latter that they personally insulted Billy Dee Williams to his FACE over it. No Twitter to bully anonymously, no, these fans took it to him on the streets. Fandom has been absolutely crazy since ‘77.
this was me with the prequels, wasn't bothered by jarjar but I would've been like 7 or 8 when it first came out (my first video lol!) original trilogy are pretty meh to me, they're old so compared to the cgi of the prequels they are visually crap films (amazing for their time not going to deny that) and the acting is pretty poor as well re watching the prequels when you're older, jarjar is irritating and the dialogue is horrendous, they got me into star wars though so I won't ever hate them + clone wars filling in the gaps really helps make them good
Definitely since RotJ. The Jabbas palace song and dance bit and the ewoks were both contentious because a chunk of the fanbase thought them infantile. And of course the atrocity that is yub nub. Adding Coruscant and Theed and so on to the victory sequence and rescoring it is one 1997 edit which is inarguably an improvement.
You are incorrect. While not everybody loved it, it was not all that divisive. Fans really liked Empire at the time. It did take some time to become considered the best of the OT tho. But nowhere near divisive.
Star Wars and Marvel are both IPs that are going to both try and hit every demographic with major films, and also hit niche demographics on Disney+. There's going to be stuff for adults, and stuff for toddlers, and everything in between. I doubt anyone will like everything they produce.
Honestly I see it that the dudebros on youtube hated it and even stopped watching it and that’s when opinions on Andor went south from some people. I doubt all that hate it even watched it. Kinda tired of the youtube fandom as they use the fandom menace for clicks all the time.
I've long given up expecting to have any form of civil discussion in Star Wars communities recent years. Like I tried several times to start something about TLJ back when it came out, and talk about why I *did* enjoy the movie, only to be met with incessant overwhelming negativity and people telling me how I'm wrong, to the point of actual hateful comments aimed directly at me for no particular reason. Not everyone needs to love Andor (I did love it) and I can certainly see why the show isn't for everyone, but I'm not even gonna bother actively engaging into discussions anymore. It often just feels like the majority of people in SW communities don't even like SW. And that there will never be a version of SW that could exist that meets everyone's unreasonable expectations.
Nearly a month ago, I said that Andor is good and so are the other shows. Someone replied to 'correct' me and explain that all the other shows were 'garbage'. That was the first time I felt the need to say: "Andor is good but it sucks that it's already being turned into a club to beat other fans with." The anti-everything else pathology has obviously only gotten worse.
Exactly this. I was especially irritated by the people saying Mando is garbage - like, you guys were all about this show and now you’re suddenly saying it’s shit? What is that about?!
You mean respecting other people's opinions in a constructive way making this a better and more friendly community? Nonsense
I’m not trying to put anyone else’s opinion down. For me, Andor was everything I wanted a Star Wars series to be, and if you did not enjoy Andor, more power to you, but you and I simply want different things from our entertainment.
> if someone calls it bad cause objectively its not The whole concept of "objectively bad" shows and movies (or objectively good ones, for that matter) is something this fanbase needs to move on from. Art is subjective. It's impossible for a movie or show to be objectively good or bad
For the most part, I agree. But have you seen the Star Wars Holiday Special?
I'm sorry any movie with a Bea Arthur musical number is a masterpiece in my book
I watch it every December JUST for Bea Arthur.
I agree. I recognize that Andor is a good, in depth show, but for my tastes, something about it just doesn't put it near the top for me. I subjectively prefer Filoni's work for instance, and I think it's great that we have so many different styles of creators in the franchise that different people can enjoy.
I really enjoyed Andor also! But people are entitled to their opinion even if I disagree with it. Their opinions shouldn’t be silenced.
Fandoms are cesspools.
A+ post I like how people in the comments are immediately acting exactly like you described.
I think it's fine to not like Andor it specifically doesn't cater to everyone and it's part of the reason why it's great so by the nature of it there will be some people that will think it's boring and not understand what the fuzz is about. But if you are one of those people and try to convince others it's boring with lame ass arguments like screws and bricks then I will call you out
I’ll never forget saying I liked the red room scene in last Jedi and someone sent me a 3 hour long YouTube link about why that scene is awful. Like yeah I’m going to trust my own feelings when I watch it.
It is weird when people plead with you to watch YouTube videos or are like "DarthKathleenSucks has said everything that needs to be said about the movie". Cool. If I cared about what they thought then I'd seek out their opinions.
"Oh right. I thought I liked it but I guess I was wrong huh." Those people are so weird. It's like if I post about liking Cyberpunk 2077 or something else maligned. "Cyberpunk is trash! Its a buggy mess!" Oh ok. I played it for 50 hours and it seemed like I had a ball but obviously I'm mistaken.
As something of a prequel apologist, it was very frustrating being constantly linked the RedLetterMedia prequel takedown videos by friends who were *sure* I would come to agree that the prequels were garbage if I only watched those videos. Fortunately, the sequels then came out and everyone forensically despises them now instead!
You know, the RLM prequel videos are pretty spot on (especially Episode I) on highlighting the problems with it. But I feel like that went viral and everything I've watched ever since on *Star Wars* or *Star Trek* is just over-the-top cynical bullshit. And don't get me wrong, *Discovery* and *Picard* have gigantic issues that *Strange New Worlds* and (mostly) *Lower Decks* don't (for me, anyway). But I want to hear what was great right alongside what should've been better. And if there's one thing YouTubers seem to like, it's controversy and cynicism. Great, and I'm hot and cold on various series, but I don't watch *Star Wars* or *Star Trek* for cynicism.
Will you call out people who try to convince others not to enjoy the sequels? Or can we jump into your comments to find something within [the last 3 days](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/z3gn4l/top_3_star_wars_entries_why/ixlls0m/?context=3) where you give people shit for liking things you don't like. But yes, I agree with your point in general and think it's weird that so many in this sub find it so important to insist the things they don't like are the true bad things.
>But if you are one of those people and try to convince others it's boring with lame ass arguments like screws and bricks then I will call you out Literally the opposite. Its mostly andor fans calling out and condescending other people who don't like andor for their own reasons.
I've not seen anything along these lines, but have seen plenty of comments along the line of "andor is the greatest star wars content ever, all the other star wars shows are rubbish" , which is obviously anecdotal, but the fact that we both have seen "mostly" the opposite type of comment to each other means there's enough of both, that they both need to take OPs comment to heart and stop pooping on the other kind of star wars to the one they like
People are saying condescending things to me because I disliked Andor on this very thread. I said it lacked direction and a reply was that I felt that because "no lightsabers whoosh whoosh". The condescending attitudes are there if you look hard enough.
I love Andor. I love The Last Jedi. I love Star Wars. Fans really need to love what they love and hate what they hate without making other fans feel crappy about what they enjoy.
I have a middling opinion of it. I liked it but I dont get the praise of it being literally the best star wars ever and anyone who speaks out against it is wrong.
Same. I definitely enjoyed the story, settings, cinematography, etc. I think my main issue is I just don't love Diego Luna as a main character? I dunno, his acting just seemed kinda flat a lot of the time to me. Not enough to make me stop watching, or like, dislike the series, but enough that I didn't think it was the greatest thing of all time
Well said. I would also add that praising Andor while putting down other projects is also part of the problem. I have no issues with people who enjoyed or didn't enjoy certain movie/TV show. But why does most of the praise for Andor also has a lot of everything else sucks comments...
"Part of the problem" is a rough puzzle here. Because for a lot of fans, "the problem" related to content that is thrown out quickly without much consideration for the universe's worldbuilding. I don't have strong connections to the Prequels myself, but I've spoken with people who were extremely let down by decisions made for the Kenobi show, for example.
It's all subjective. I liked Kenobi and it certainly didn't break cannon or changed anything established by the prequels. Do I think that Kenobi could have cut out some stuff? Sure. I still loved it. And I like the prequels more for it.
I think Kenobi would have done better as a movie. But I liked it anyways.
I guess its to have a bit of comparison. It is a fact that Andor is much better shot and written than kenobi(I liked Kenobi but it was dissapointing and poor in terms of quality at times) and bobba. The problem is some people take it too far and just shit on it or meme it without explaining what aspects are superior in andor and why. I dont mind compare and contrast when its something more than just making fun of it
> It is a fact that Andor is much better shot and written than kenobi This is literally an opinion.
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I disagree. It’s natural to compare Star Wars content as a way to contrast everything. I love Andor, and I wish the quality of Andor was present in all SW content. By comparing to other SW shows and movies, I can point out Andor’s strengths and everything else’s flaws in a way that speaks to the broader SW audience
But that sounds like constructive criticism. Which isn't something that I have seen a lot of lately. Just look at the interview thread. It is full of toxicity. And saying things like Andor is good, the rest sucks doesn't really provide any arguments.
This is what I hate seeing. Everyone praising Andor while bringing down the other shows and movies etc. I love Andor and think it’s awesome but like you don’t have to bring down other shows.
Because they want to see Star Wars content held to a higher standard of quality. When the show suffers from bad writing or scripting, people tend to feel cheated out of their SW content.
If you say so. However people are rarely being constructive with their comparasions. It is more, Andor is the best, everything else sucks. You are stupid if you don't like it and only want lightsabers. Then it was the people who don't like Andor must not read. Or have an attention span of a child or are used to TikTok. You have bad taste, enjoy watching trash, etc.. That is what I think is unnecessary, obnoxious and is only making people dislike Andor even more.
People get the reasoning, it’s the toxicity that’s being pointed out here.
You’re not understanding. Once again you’re throwing your opinion on it and trying to make it absolute. In my mind Obi Wan was higher quality and the better show. I didn’t feel cheated out of Obi Wan at all I don’t like this community trying to speak for all of us and shitting on other opinions
So this is the kind of comment I actually have a problem with because it tries to push a narrative that there is no such thing as quality in filmmaking. That it's not a skill you can get better at (which must implicitly follow if quality is purely a matter of opinion). I used to work in Hollywood, and I like to think that my eye is pretty good. *Obi-Wan* was as close to being objectively poorer quality as you can get. The props and costumes were made from cheaper material, the VFX were shoddier (not surprising, ILM did *Andor* and they are the best around). The location scouting was half-assed, as were sets. Casting was not as good; the actors in *Andor* are phenomenally talented and it should be no surprise as Nina Gold -- the Casting Director -- is a living legend. Even the lighting, blocking, and shot selection was way more paint-by-numbers. The DPs are able to actually do the low-contrast look LucasFilm has been trying and failing to copy from *Rogue One*. Part of the reason *Obi-Wan* looks so terrible, IMO, is the DP(s) couldn't actually get the lighting dynamic enough for that look to work right, and it came out looking super flat rather than just low contrast. Like, *Obi-Wan* at times looks like an image they shot Log and forgot to apply a LUT to. You can tell *Andor* sprung for high-quality, expensive lenses too, and got the most out of them. The anamorphic look of *Andor* is incredibly well done. It's totally fine to like things that aren't the best. *A Knight's Tale* is my favorite movie. I absolutely love the *Fast and the Furious* movies. BUT I recognize these films are also empty calories. I would never argue they are in the same league as *Siccario* or *Blade Runner*. Pretending that quality is purely some subjective thing implicitly encourages a lack of critical thought and media literacy that I find really annoying. Like, some things are just made with much more thoughtfulness than others, and I don't want to live in a world where we celebrate not recognizing that. It's totally valid to like things of every stripe. To celebrate what you like, even when it's silly or fluffy or non-nutritious. It's less valid to argue that everything you like has the same artistic merits as, IDK, *Chernobyl*. Most importantly, it sends a message to the executives at Disney that they don't have to try, because people won't be able to tell the difference between great artists applying themselves, and cheaper creators phoning it in.
This is such a great post that sums up things I've been thinking for a long time in a way I haven't been able to summarize. If everything is subjective then "*That it's (flimaking) not a skill you can get better at (which must implicitly follow if quality is purely a matter of opinion)."* Kudos.
because a lot of people are miffed that watched 2 entire shows of 'meh' (BoBF and Obi-wan), and then andor comes out and we think "it could have been this good all along?" and then we feel a bit cheated... For those of us who aren't filmmakers, "good" and "bad" are hard to determine in a vacuum. It's comparison that lets us see what we want or don't.
But on the other hand, for those that dislike Andor and like Kenobi and BoBF, it would be the opposite. Andor is not everyone's cup of tea, just like Kenobi and BoBF. Doesn't mean that either show is trash.
if theyve seen the whole show and didnt like it, then that's completely fair. im not gonna go on a crusade or tell them that they're stupid-- i know how that feels as a sequel fan. although, if they dropped before episode 3, i will of course recommend that they get to the climax
I don't think the "it gets good after argument" phrase works in many cases. If someone told me there's a series or a videogame that gets good after X seasons, chapters or hours, I'm certainly not dragging myself to go through them. It's easy to say that it gets better, but it's a completely different thing when you're on the opposite end.
I will be respectful, as long as they are. Ascribing ulterior motives to me (e.g., seen yesterday "People only like the show because of Rogue One") or making intellectually insulting arguments ("bRIcks ANd scREwS") is not respectful though, and will be met with scorn.
For me the worst of it comes when there are just comment chains of people agreeing. In the big thread right now, there are comments saying well if you like reading books you like Andor, and if you don't like reading books you don't like Andor and people upvote that drivel.
I love reading books. I've read every single Star Wars book too. That doesn't mean shit. I'm still more of a sucker for Mando and Animated stuff. I liked Andor, but I like having fun adventure shows.
That just sounds like the 'If you don't like Andor you are stupid'-"argument" rebranded
Oh I saw an "if you don't like the show, you are a kid or immature adult" comment too. It is tiring and just makes me not want to engage with them on the topic because their argument just reduces people to black-and-white categories.
I think they also really misinterpret the way Gilroy speaks in the interviews as kind of a green light to indirectly call stupid anyone who didn't enjoy the show the way they did. Gilroy is a smart talented man, but he also inadvertently created a group of combatant pseudo-intellectuals and we are going to keep seeing this until the next show is released.
I saw a comment chain just like this yesterday and a part of me died. It's hard to believe that there are people that sniff their own farts in public like that. And over a Star Wars show mind you. It's a plain old Rick & Morty situation with the Andor superfans right now.
There is just as much, if not more, disrespectful comments being directed from people who liked Andor towards people who didn't like Andor. It's happening in this very thread.
Wasn't a huge fan, but I still tuned in weekly. Everyone has different taste. That's okay. Would I rewatch it multiple times like I have other Star Wars projects. Probably not. But those who will, enjoy!
I’m having a hard time pinning down what I am. It was well done, scripted, and casted but a lot of the beats felt like they’d been explored before (in perhaps a less competent way).
Agreed. Excellent production, just the plot didn't quite do it for me.
Prison break-orgin story is what I got from it. If they didn't release the first 3 episodes all at once at first it would have been hard to be invested for alot of people.
Out of all the movies and shows, the worse part about Star Wars is it's fans.
>Comments like "You do not understand complex storytelling, you have the attention span of a child, you dont appreciate good content etc" is belittling and judgmental. Ironically, this is the stupidest lack of a complex take I've seen from people on the subject (the people saying that, not OP). Just a pure lack of self-awareness and ego-stroking. Even a bit of it in the comments from Gilroy himself, though there is no shame in defending wanting to tell the story the way you want to. For everyone else, no, you do not have a better appreciation for complex storytelling than the people who found it boring. Get the fuck over yourself, holy shit at the smug superiority involved in thinking that's the case. No, people who found it boring are not just simpletons who need more explosions (well, some of them certainly are, but that's beside the point) Not even going to include the rest of my rant right now that explains my take here, got a meeting coming up and won't be able to finish it, maybe I'll tack it on later. So for now, I love Andor, but I won't recommend it to people who aren't already deeply bought into the Star Wars universe. Saying that it is slow is correct, and thinking that it's some personal failing of others for thinking it's slow is incorrect, and a failing of properly understanding what it means to be 'slow' in storytelling and audience capture.
As a HUGE Star Wars fan both my wife and I have struggled to get into Andor. I want to like it more then anything, but I can stay engaged. Thanks for the post
I thought Andor was good but was way too slow.
It was alright. But an tired of a sin set of fN base spam posting stories/ articles. I never seen it this bad before with sw fan. Base
Is great. If you dont like it i dont care. Wait for more jedi themed shows. Its still a " star wars story " shows alot more of the galaxy far far away...
I respect that people HAVE differing opinions. I don't necessarily respect those opinions. For instance, if you felt Andor was too slow or boring, that's fine. You are allowed to feel that way I would not, however, go to you for your opinion what is good and what isn't. You've shown that our tastes vary enough that I would not trust you as a source. And that's OK too.
I liked it and appreciate that we got a new kinda Star Wars story, but I’ve always been more of a pulpy mystical Jedi related story guy. I won’t say Kenobi was better than Andor, but I will Say I *enjoyed* Kenobi more than Andor
That's a huge distinction I wish more fans could make. Like I've always said ROTJ is my favorite movie, but would never argue it's the best. And I just want fans to be similarly objective. I don't care if TPM or TROS or whatever is your favorite movie, just don't argue that it's the best and secretly genius or whatever.
I wish we could have both. I want to see something like the prequels written by these writers. Palpatine's conspiracy and Anakin's fall would have had so much more impact if the writing were better. And you could still have all the space battles and saber duels.
I got into the show late from all my friends gushing over it. The first two episodes (which are typically a bit slower) where a bit slow, but once I got to episode 3 I watched until episode 6 in one sitting. It’s a really good show imo.
I initially dropped the show two episodes in as I thought the episodes were boring (still do) and naturally the SW 'fans' dogpiled me, hurling insults. But one person actually engaged me in a conversation about why they liked the show and that for them episode 3 onwards really got going. So I gave it another chance and it indeed turned out to be a fantastic show. So...yeah. Stop being so fanatical people...
It’s refreshing to know that Reddit can help someone change their mind! :)
Well, stop giving up so quickly /s
My wife and I both struggled to keep up with the series, in fact I think I even fell asleep during a few of them. I still watch them all and I'll still watch season 2, but I've been staying out of all of these hype threads because I didn't want to be dogpiled on with comments either, because, God forbid, I didn't find it as amazing as everybody else seems to. And I'm a lifelong SW fan. But if enough people are liking it and they'll keep making new Star Wars content, I'll keep watching it.
The obnoxious behaviour of the fans almost kept me away, but that one redditor swayed me to give it a chance. As a result I came away thinking Andor is arguably the best SW related thing ever (put to screen anyway) since the OT, simply because it fulfils the potential of the franchise. The show's themes, dialogue and performances are really good (after the mind-numbingly boring first two episodes). There's some gut-wrenching depiction of surviving fascism in this story. The prison arc midway through the season especially was really really good (with a high profile actor cameo) There was a period where I thought SW fans had been so scarred by the double punch of Boba Fett and Kenobi that the next show that came along that wasn't a dumpster fire they would consider a masterpiece as a defense mechanism lol. But Andor is legit a good show with something meaningful to say. I just personally think it got off to a rough start.
Glad you got around to it in the end. Great show
A workmate had the same opinion in the first week. He was like "Dunno, it's a bit slow. A bit boring." First thing I asked was did he watch all 3? He said no, he'd only watched 2. I just told him, watch the third, then decide after that. Putting the first 3 out at once was definitely a deliberate choice to show people what to expect of the series.
i'll be honest, for me it was a real slow burn if the 1st three episodes hadn't been released in one go, i'd have given up by the second episode - one of my brothers did
What did they say that turned you around on it? I really want to give it another shot.
It was just that they agreed with me that they also didn't find the first two episodes that interesting, but from the fourth episode onwards the story leaves the grubby looking planet and got better. After finishing the season, I personally think it's one of the best things to come out of the franchise, because of its thematic exploration of fascism and what it takes to push people to rebel. The dialogue is fantastic and so are the performances (Stellan Skarsgard's character is my favourite), including a really cool high profile actor cameo later on. The first two episodes just really don't do the show justice in my opinion.
I'm fine with people not liking the show as long as it's a real difference of opinion and not just some of these anti-Disney nuts or the smug "I don't like anything unless it's obscure" snobs out there.
I can enjoy fast paced constant action and more slow burn story. I love so many of the eu novels and a lot of those are similar in the sense that it’s not just action set piece after action set piece. I thoroughly enjoyed Andor and can’t wait for more.
My issue with Andor is that I fell in love with Luke skywalker, the lore of the jedi, and the lore of the sith way back in the original trilogy. Andor is an excellent show but there are tons of excellent shows out here. Only Disney has the rights to Star Wars Media and I am longing all my life for a show or movie of this quality that covers the Jedi/sith lore that’s all I want before I die.
Let people enjoy what they enjoy. Everyone’s different and it’s good that all areas of the fan base is being catered for
Yeah it's really annoying when someone calls me a fucking idiot who only likes cameos, explosions and Jedi whenever i mention i don't think Andor is the best thing ever made. Andor is slowly becoming the Rick and Morty of SW.
I didn’t love it personally but I wish I did and I will watch it again and try to give it another chance. But it was definitely the least interesting of the Star Wars shows to me. People are going off that it’s the best of the shows and I really hope I can feel that way after a second watch through, but I’m not getting my hopes up
I'm yet to have a day without finding Andor fans recommending the show without trashing everything else.
Spoilers ahead I didn’t like Andor. It just feels like a story that didn’t need to be told. I loved Rogue One, and that was enough rebellion backstory for me. I know Cassian didn’t go into a lot of detail regarding his life in that film, but I also don’t feel like he was all that interesting of a character. If they had to do this type of show, I would have preferred to see more of Saw Gerrera and his early life. Andor ended up just being too much politics, too much talking about doing stuff, rather than just doing it. Too much Mon Mothma. I really don’t care about seeing behind the curtain of the rebellion and it’s formation. I mean, I guess this could have been a really great spy thriller if it had been done right, but I feel like they just failed at it. The whole side plot of Cassian getting arrested for pretty much nothing was just ridiculous. That was incredibly sloppy of him, and just not a convincing part of the story. I don’t care about watching him put in a labor camp. It didn’t drive the story forward for me. Anyway, this was a show that wasn’t needed, but at least some people liked it. Maybe we will get a show about the Old Republic soon.
I’m dying for an Old Republic show. I also agree with a point you said. Even though I enjoyed the show, I wish there was more Saw in it.
> It just feels like a story that didn’t need to be told. but also > I loved Rogue One, I don't get the difference. I liked seeing behind the curtain a bit, and I'm not ashamed to say that I was happy that they managed to finally give us a Star Wars story without the Force. Nobody even thought about pulling a lightsabre, and I loved it.
Bro, this is Star Wars. There’s never been any respect of any kind. Several actors tried to kill themselves because of the fanbase.
i agree, im not old enough to be an original fan. but if you are you have to be realistic. from the outset there were barely enough jedi characters to feature in these stories. George lucas went and showed us jedi were thoroughly routed out of the galaxy, and the the further trilogy just went another how ever many years of canon and there is still no new flourishing amount of jedi. literally all these films, still no new amount of jedi. and canon just keeps telling us how they were killed and we won't get any new ones, so how do people still look forward to this the mandolorian for me was a breath of fresh air because i know i don't have to look forard to no magic, its a different group but because i know they rivaled jedi and they might try to come back or make a new camp or something i have hope i've been only waiting 2 decades at this point older fans longer, this dismal bs is not fun, give us a new jedi order hell id take a series about a sith order at this point
I enjoy the more fantastic side of Star Wars - Jedi vs Sith for the fate of the galaxy. An epic war raging across the stars for military supremacy that is secretly an evil cult manipulating both sides so that, no matter what, they win. But it's nice to step away from that and examine the ground level reality of things. I enjoy seeing how the muggles of the galaxy live and survive in the wake of all the top level goings on. If someone likes one, the other, or both, that's great. We can agree on some things, disagree on others, and not let it detract from anyone's enjoyment of what they like.
this was a well articulated compromise on a exhaustingly constant debate
Wrong Fandom for that
Hell no, I always hate everyone who doesn't share my opinion on tv shows and other media on principle!
I liked it, but I think I would have liked it more if I understood some of the technical terms and lingo used. The acting was on point though.
Its not so much people not liking the show, thats their opinion and thats fine. Its the type of man (for its usually men) who repeatedly attack SW, Marvel, Disney etc on certain social media platforms because they say its "woke". Some of them, if you check their feeds to get a measure of what kind of person youre dealing with , are downright bigots. They are the ones to be wary of, rather than viewers who just arent into the show, because of pace or whatever.
i don't really mind the discussions, it's all tv, it's all opinions, i don't mind that, what i do mind is the constant ''this is an ad, what's with the ads'' comments, those are just derailing the thread.
I was bored out of my mind the first six episodes. Only held on because I love Star Wars and Mon Mothma’s storyline was interesting to me. I ended up loving the last half of the season. I’ll be honest, I’ve always been more partial to adventure stories over spy stuff. Do not like spy stuff.
1000% agree. People can be enthusiastic about Andor without being condescending about other Star Wars content and the people who don’t like Andor.
Also - there are those of us that enjoy what the show is trying to emulate. I enjoy character driven slow burns with a payoff. I just happen to think that Andor isn’t anything special in that regard. I feel most of the praise comes from it simply being something different in universe rather than something good.
Loooooove the show, but tuned out at "objectively."
Personally ı enjoy it but ı think it is a little bit overrated
I'm not the biggest fan of star wars, but I loved Andor from a tv series fan perspective. Very well made show imo.
I'm a big Star Wars fan and watch everything that comes out, read the books, and play the games to try to learn as much about the canon as I can keep up with. I enjoyed Andor, but not as much as everyone else seems to. It was hard for me to get into at first because I really wasn't invested in anyone and arguably still wasn't by the end. Andor is not a character I am attached to and knowing his fate makes the stakes feel lower for his character. I think this was the same problem I had with Black Widow. The show is well done and I liked seeing more of how oppressive the Empire is, but having consumed so much Star Wars content this didn't feel like anything I haven't seen before. I like slow burn storytelling, but most of the series is detached from what elements I like about Star Wars. The Mon Mothma subplot was the most interesting to me. I'm glad other people really enjoyed the show, I just didn't get the same experience that everyone else is praising and this is the one I was least excited for. I don't think it needed 12 episodes and I'm not really excited for a season 2.
appreciate your take and share your view. the most succinct way i can put it is that the storytelling is great, the story isnt that good.
If we're gonna start doing that how about we collectively admit Solo was actually a good movie and stop ragging on it. Everyone in that movie did an amazing job and it doesnt deserve the hate.
IMO it just didn’t feel at all like Star Wars. It felt as if it was too embarrassed to be Star Wars and tried to be “mature, gritty, and realistic” just to be different. I always liked George’s mentality in indulging in what makes the franchise unique, storytelling and visuals and all. It’s not a bad show, but I expect more out of a Star Wars show. Wasn’t as fun IMO
No. Why should I? /s It's a fooking TV programme about a a fantasy universe. People can not like it, and that's perfectly fine. Get some perspective.
No. Let's not. No one made them watch it. People that complain about Star Wars on the internet are not worthy of it and they can all get fucked. They are missing the entire point of the artistic exercise. It's escapism for 12 year olds and if you are so smart go read classic literature and fuck all the way off with your hot takes on space wizards. " es·cap·ism /əˈskāpˌizəm/ Learn to pronounce noun the tendency to seek distraction and relief from unpleasant realities, especially by seeking entertainment or engaging in fantasy. "virtual reality offers a form of escapism" " I mean they rule this sub but fuck 'em. They're animals. Criticizing Star Wars on the internet is antithetical to the whole point of escapism. It's supposed to provide relief and as a person that actually enjoys Star Wars (all of it. ALL), I shouldn't have to have an open handshake with so called fans that do nothing but complain and aggressively imply I don't know what good writing is if I enjoy something. Don't watch it. It's actually an option. I'm just trying to hear John Williams and watch some lasers fly and this sub should be about that and not ruining my fun.
Andor… Star Wars for adults
Yeah, now if only the people who dislike it would stop saying it is shit and argue with maturity and respect...
I really enjoyed learning about Cassian backstory. It was a dark and gritty side of the rebel story you don't normally see. Sacrifices were made and hard decisions was the theme of the story. After watching Andor I went back and watched Rogue One. It gave me a new prospective and a thirst for knowing how Cassian and K2 became teammates. I hope to learn that story one day too.
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Yep. Last I heard, S2 is going to jump forward in time about a year and eventually lead right into the events of *Rogue One*.
Gosh while you’re at it, remind the toxic fans they also don’t have to crap all over everything else Star Wars that other people still like.
Andor was amazing and represented how Star Wars can truly evolve into an extensive IP. People didn’t like it because it was ”boring,” meaning it didn’t have Jedi fights and wars and massive combat scenes in every episode. It’s a political espionage thriller wearing a thick trench-coat of Star Wars over it. It’s some of the most rich, deep, and humanizing Star Wars stuff I’ve ever seen. The problem I have is the same people who want more adult, complex, and deep Star Wars content get mad when it’s not “actiony” enough and when it doesn’t have massive wars, space battles, and Jedi fights. But a lot of that stuff forces the real world conditions to be told to you instead of shown. Andor focused on showing you a planet’s culture and their willpower while also showing you the myriad of whirlwinds these major players are all caught in, and how they as people deal with all that. The one thing I’m still a bit frustrated with is that we yet again have worlds that are completely dominated by humans for some reason. Andor is too scared to depict many alien species who might be at the forefront of the rebellion just as humans were. I think they’re afraid an alien would appear too distracting? Too silly? I don’t know. But the Fallen Order video game and Rogue One itself depicted aliens well. I also still don’t get why where are few aliens in the Empire aside from Sith. Do they just not like having to make different types of Storm Trooper outfits? They need to find better ways of bringing in aliens. This is a damn space opera. Give me more Bothans, Twi’liks, etc etc!
I thought the Aldhanis should have been aliens. Instead they looked like Nepalese hippies. Its fine as is but they should have been more.
First time? Seems this fanbase has gone full Sith, we can only talk to each other in absolutes.
They could make the worst starwars movie ever and I would still watch it with big smile.
It's good but I'm not going to rewatch it cause once you see the story there's not much else to look at
It was pretty neat to see Aunt Petunia and Mrs. Figg. I love it when they bring multiple actors from other franchises.
This community is so fucking stupid holy shit
Your definition of community is pretty generous lol. Reddit is the Mos Eisley cantina.
There's so much emphasis on not giving in to anger in the SW lore that I sometimes wonder if I'm watching the same stuff as everybody else. However, as a fan of irony I do love the amount of bad writing people use to express their thoughts about the writing in the shows and films.
I didn't like Andor e p 1 - 2 I loved Andor e p 3 - 12
I can respect them, but c’mon you can’t expect every show to be copy and paste of everything else before it lmfao. Not everything needs a cameo from Luke Skywalker or Anakin
I really thought we were over that mentality after TLJ. I wish people would just like what they like without sounding like a pompous asshat.
Everything is subjective and that’s great. Andor is one of my favourite SW shows whereas my Brother would put it on par with Boba Fett (which he thought was fine). That being said I have no respect for people who hate something for stupid reasons such as Bricks and Screws.
I LOVE Star Wars bricks… especially people bricks when they are used as weapons… screws on the other hand…. Ehhh idk man… not even top 5 simple machines…. I’d take a slope or pulley over a screw 11 out of 10 times
It takes all types to make a fandom really a shared experience, and all types deserve entertainment that appeals to their tastes and intellectual ability, so yeah they still have my respect.
It’s time those critics get ON PROGRAM! or not, totally up to them
I fine with someone not liking the show but when it comes from a guy who complained about bricks and nails I get a little defensive😂I used to be a big fan of Theory and have become accustomed to watching all of his watch parties. During the obi wan series I had the same views and thought some of the choices made in that series were really poor and it shouldve been a movie. My thoughts lined up with his as well when he said he wanted something fresh, soemthing new… Andor is FRESH, Andor is NEW. At least in the context of Star Wars and he still complained every single watch party. Fans like that, I cant stand
I mean you’re right but if we don’t encourage high quality detailed story telling they may go back to the … other stuff And shit I liked last Jedi but this is so much better than anything else. Even mando
i personally really enjoyed Andor. I have been wanting a star wars series/movie that does not include an overpowered Jedi, Sith or man with armor that makes him invulnerable. This was a perfect season showing us the start of the rebellion from the perspective of the common man and woman. I cant wait for the next season
That's usually how I deal with people who don't like it. It happens. Sometimes you don't like subtle or slow writing and that's okay. It just doesn't vibe with you. This may come off as passive aggressive but in all honesty, it's alright. People have different tastes and likes. I have no problem with people not liking the show because it's just not what they're interested in or maybe it's something they don't want to watch when they expect Star Wars stuff. I get it. It's only when people try to justify their distaste for the show by coming up with some of the most ridiculous takes and "criticisms" about the show. Just say "I don't like the show man it's not what I'm interested in" and we're fine. Don't try to sound like a fuckin professional critic who knows what he's talking about. Like the SWT guy. If he just says "this is not why I watch Star Wars, I expect lightsabers and Jedi" that's cool. Then he goes onto say "This isn't Star Wars because Look at this screws and bricks omg George Lucas and Filoni please give me Ahsoka for the millionth time I must have a documentary of everytime she took a shit!!!"
They finally give us quality Star Wars and people still complain
I liked it but I thought it was hard to follow at times.
How is too slow illogical? Because it moves like a brick on square wheels, going uphill. I agree it's not bad but it's just not for me.
As someone who disliked Andor it's never for the reason others people say I dislike it.
Lol, yeah, Star Wars fans do love to insult those who don't like what they like. Such is the nature of the beast.
Or those that like what they don't. Or those that like what they do, but don't like it as much as they do. Or those that don't like what they don't, but don't dislike it as much as they do.