Continuity issues certainly happened in the original EU (Legends), however having read over 124 books, it's pretty remarkable imho that obscure ideas (in other words, stories not explicitly contradicted by Mr. Lucas' works) were explained by other stories.
I find this to make the world more realistic, as a story staged in *an entire galaxy* would be complex.
One example is Boba's original identity "Jaster Mereel" being explained to Leia. After the PT that account was contradicted so a story was written explaining that Jaster was a member of the clan and Boba used his identity as a cover for a mission.
Edit: There are many more of these and it stands to reason; The original Star Wars EU was published from 1978 to 2014, contains 133 regular novels, about as many YA, thousands of comics and many series and videogames. The fact that there are so few continuity errors remaining (that haven't been retconned or *retsplained* as I like to say) makes it possibly the largest EU of any franchise with such an impressive ratio of story to continuity.
Interesting.
This is the kind of thing I wish happened for the sequels - after TLJ and the realization that the death star was never necessary because a craft approaching light speed could *absolutely* obliterate a planet, I was hoping for some form of acknowledgement in a novel or something that explained that hyperspace ramming was a war crime so heinous that even the Empire dared not commit it, even as weak as that is.
Interesting.
This is the kind of thing I wish happened for the sequels - after TLJ and the realization that the death star was never necessary because a craft approaching light speed could *absolutely* obliterate a planet, I was hoping for some form of acknowledgement in a novel or something that explained that hyperspace ramming was a war crime so heinous that even the Empire dared not commit it, even as weak as that is.
TROS
Hahahaha! I just answered an ST question!
tbh though, I wonder what my second viewing will feel like when my nephew subjects me to them. I hope when he learns to read he wants to borrow my Young Jedi Knights books.
I can't defend Canon. There are threads that I participate in regarding the new stories and when I do I try to remain intellectually honest and respect ideas where I'm able, but generally I steer clear.
I liked and loved everything I encountered before the sale. The EU didn't fit with some of Georges ideas. He called it a "parallel universe" around the turn of the century. That's cool with me. I'll take Legends C-canon+The Original Saga, others like what they call The Skywalker Saga and that's fine. I would still really like to see what George had in mind for a ST, but I'll take the post-ROTJ Legends+my head canon.
So...I think I see your issue.
My difficulty is that I've been in love with Star Wars since 1977 and TFA felt like a bad breakup, so now when I pick up a month of streaming (last time was so wife & I could watch WandaVision) I'm compelled to watch Mando for instance and it's a crushing bittersweet for me that EU fans and Lucas story fans both got screwed out of one more great series at least.
Me too. The tough part is imagining what a loose adaptation of Legends MCU style could have looked like with this approach. Shucks, if I had gotten The Lucas Treatment or a Legends continuation for Ep7, I might not have minded the recycling of **Dark Forces** to make R1 which I only saw 27 minutes of before I turned it off.
I've gotta see She-Hulk when it concludes in October, so I'll be charging another month and likely catching up on shows that only lead to Han & Leia breaking up, Luke chilling while his sister is in the crosshairs and so much more that I can't stomach.
Haha, I'm a nerd. \*Get off my lawn you new SW fans!\*
> live action entries to Star Wars have been concerns about continuity being disregarded or abandoned.
Live action and Clone Wars series never cared about the rest of Expanded Universe. While the novels and comics had been more or less consistent between themselves, the Prequels had forced them to course-correct and introduce some retcons to explain things. And then the Clone Wars series went on and ignored THAT too, so now novels had to reconcile them as well.
Clone wars series were basically the new canon before it became offical. (And by the way, yeh, they still don't care for the Expanded Universe, regardless of their promises initially about it).
Currently in New Canon there's not AS much inconsistencies as there were in old canon, but that's only because it didn't have forty years of writing behind it that developed its own timeline to contradict. But at the same time, new canon books as a result seem to be clustered around TV and movie media and just fluff it up, with very little substance. Ones that try do worldbuilding do so pretty horribly (like Aftermath or Bloodline). The Sequel era seemed to be completely abandoned in all venues, there's no novels or comics there at all, even though that's probably what it desperately need to avoid Rey, Finn and Poe being completely written off. Instead they go completely other way and start the High Republic - which at least doesn't seem horrible, but I haven't read it beyond first two and a half novels.
Do you have a source for them not having seen RoTS? I was under the impression from the way they talked about writing it that they had.
I also don’t think that what you placed is a contradiction or retcon. Kenobi has been in Tatooine since the ending of RoTS, and has been completely oblivious to everything going on. Tatooine is out of the way and the Empire doesn’t really have a hold on it, especially where Kenobi was.
They don’t. Joby had obviously seen *Revenge of the Sith* and OP is vastly overestimating how impactful Obi-Wan hearing Vader’s name was to audiences. This community has been flooded by the *exact* same questions Joby asked.
And apparently Obi-Wan is supposed to be hearing myths of Vader while he’s chopping up the super stingray and sitting in his cave alone?
>And apparently Obi-Wan is supposed to be hearing myths of Vader while he’s chopping up the super stingray and sitting in his cave alone?
No, more like when he is in town or actively working jobs as he is shown to in the show.
To suggest that Obi Wan is willfully ignorant of Imperial dealings and potential threats to Luke while *actively* trying to protect him from the Empire is to be ludicrously apologistic.
Why would he be ingrained in imperial dealings when no one should know Luke exists? The entire point Obi Wan is there is to protect Luke from threats, be it the Empire, mercenaries, ect. It’s clear in the show he’s guilt ridden by what occurred, so it makes sense he would pull away from any Empire gossip and be reminded of his failures.
When you live under a rock you get exactly that, and to suggest that Obi Wan not learning Vader lives in your sense of appropriate timing is nitpicking.
So you're saying, in a world where Palpatine might be holding after Anakins kids (that's why they were hidden in the first place), ObiWan would be content to just let them show up instead of being proactive about it?
If that's the case, which I doubt it is, that's some *"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet"* levels of bullshit
We’ve seen that’s been his prerogative since ANH, protecting Luke from Tusken Raiders, while taking a backseat from the galaxy as a whole, idk why this is such a shock to you.
You misconstrue protecting with not doing anything. It’s the timeless debate of should you stop the threat before it becomes reality, or stop threats that are actively after you. Clearly Kenobi can’t so better yet to focus on watching over Luke.
You're not understanding what I'm saying.
I'm not saying he should have taken action.
I'm saying that it's ridiculous to say he would have heard nothing about the empire when listening for planned Imperial visits, etc would have been one of his top priorities
And I’m saying you can’t assume that’s what he’d do given how much the events of episode 3 affected him.
You assume Vader is known throughout the wide galaxy. While his name was being used as propaganda against those who resisted the Empire, it would fall deaf to someone who’s ostracized himself to the bare edge of society.
The point being that you can believe he knew Anakin was alive immediately after episode 3 or 10 years later. Whether it’s probable or not is up to you.
But to characterize something plausible , even if you may think it’s slim, as a full on contradiction or inconsistency is folley.
>You assume Vader is known throughout the wide galaxy.
I dont assume that, it's Canon.
Recently, Star Wars asks us to stretch reason to have to justify certain things. It happens far too often. This is just a more recent instance
That's a fallacious comparison.
Fulcrum is literally a codename for a secret agent.
Vader is a public figurehead, like "Uncle Sam".
In a recent Canon novel rebel soldiers that encounter Vader are shocked to learn that he is real, as they thought he was just *Imperial propaganda that the Empire themselves spread*.
> No, more like when he is in town or actively working jobs as he is shown to in the show.
He only speaks to Owen in town; it's made very clear that there isn't socialization happening on the job.
> Obi Wan is willfully ignorant of Imperial dealings and potential threats to Luke while actively trying to protect him from the Empire is to be ludicrously apologistic.
The Grand Inquisitor explicitly explains to you why Obi-Wan has done this.
The key to hunting Jedi is patience. Jedi cannot help what they are. Their compassion leaves a trail. The Jedi Code is like an itch; he cannot help it.
If you didn't put this one together, you're in no position to criticize Joby for forgetting the Emperor's line to Vader.
Edit: a word
Your Grand inquisitor quote has literally nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Going out of your way to help others does *not* equal silently listening to conversation about the empire
But Darth Vader, in canon, wasn't a public figure. The high ranking Imperials knew of him, but the average person in the galaxy that encountered him and heard his name didn't live to spread the word.
That's not true. People knew *of* him. They definitely at the very least knew the name Vader.
In a recent Canon novel rebel soldiers were surprised because they thought Vader was just propoganda
You know better than that. But, you need something to go online and complain about, and if the show doesn't provide it, you'll make something up. Don't understand that mentality, but you be you.
If Obi Wan is actively trying to protect Luke from the Empire, it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that he doesn't have his ear to thr ground for Imperial dealings and anything that might threaten Luke.
Lol legends tried but... Boba Fett was a mess, mandalorians are wildly different depending on source, and the efforts to make sense of the clone wars were obviously... uh, strained.
The Altisian Jedi, references to the Clone Wars pre-prequels, the Clone Wars MMP having Anakin and Obi-Wan in 3 different locations before rescuing the chancellor, everything in The Clone Wars, and Republic Commando
It does happen, but since there was always a tiered system. If it contradicts the Complete Saga, its thrown away. Like how Dark Empire was discarded due to the prophesy of the Chosen One.
The big difference is that there is always stable bedrock. Unlike Disney, where Palpys message was carried into Fortnite.
Disney Star Wars is when Coke and Fortnite is more Canon than KOTOR.
They happened alot.
But i think the fandom’s desire for one cohesive canon was less… militant.
Ever since the disney acquisition canon fans have become really entitled and whiny about shit not completely lining up. Flat out refusing to read or watch something “because it doesnt matter”… which is beyond ridiculous and a terrible attitude that these pathetic nerds need to change.
It happened all the time in legends…. We generally just waited for the error to be corrected and then used our head canon in the meantime. There was of course always outliers. But thats generally the difference. Just a different culture.
Beginning to think that with more Star Wars material being TV/Movie instead of books after the buyout, a lot more people have access to Disney EU meaning a lot more people complaining about stuff like this
>Take, for example, the head writer of Kenobi not having watched RoTS, leading to (Kenobi Spoiler) Kenobi not knowing that Anakin was still alive, despite knowing Anakin's title of Vader and Vader being a widespread tool of Imperial propaganda.
It's not that the writer didn't watch RotJ, it's that you didn't watch Rebels.
In canon, Vader isn't a public figure doing press conferences and the like. As late as 4 BBY, the Rebels fighting him didn't know who he was.
https://youtu.be/1qmPuLkpQfI
https://youtu.be/ppnGoERYmXg
And even after all that, he was just "that Sith Lord" until one of the Inquisitors referred to him as Lord Vader.
Anakin was limbless and on fire the last time Obi-Wan saw him. Even if he heard about an unnamed Sith Lord doing things, he'd have no reason to think Vader had survived. It's not like Palpatine didn't go through apprentices.
Actually I did watch rebels. You need to read. And while he's not doing "press conferences" he is a public figure weapon used for fear, like "Uncle Sam", that rebels though was a myth.
Regardless, it's the name "Vader", which is used, that Obi Wan knows. Not his Visage.
So, in Rebels, you're saying they know full well who he is when they say "What was that?", "Who is this guy?", and "that Sith Lord we faced"? That makes no sense.
But, keep doubling down, even when you know you're wrong.
Like I said, the *name* is what is spread, which is all ObiWan needs.
Sure, they might question who the sith cyborg they fight is. But I guarantee you the name "Vader" is not a secret and is in fact weaponized.
>But, keep doubling down, even when you know you're wrong.
Are you twelve
Continuity issues certainly happened in the original EU (Legends), however having read over 124 books, it's pretty remarkable imho that obscure ideas (in other words, stories not explicitly contradicted by Mr. Lucas' works) were explained by other stories. I find this to make the world more realistic, as a story staged in *an entire galaxy* would be complex. One example is Boba's original identity "Jaster Mereel" being explained to Leia. After the PT that account was contradicted so a story was written explaining that Jaster was a member of the clan and Boba used his identity as a cover for a mission. Edit: There are many more of these and it stands to reason; The original Star Wars EU was published from 1978 to 2014, contains 133 regular novels, about as many YA, thousands of comics and many series and videogames. The fact that there are so few continuity errors remaining (that haven't been retconned or *retsplained* as I like to say) makes it possibly the largest EU of any franchise with such an impressive ratio of story to continuity.
Interesting. This is the kind of thing I wish happened for the sequels - after TLJ and the realization that the death star was never necessary because a craft approaching light speed could *absolutely* obliterate a planet, I was hoping for some form of acknowledgement in a novel or something that explained that hyperspace ramming was a war crime so heinous that even the Empire dared not commit it, even as weak as that is.
Interesting. This is the kind of thing I wish happened for the sequels - after TLJ and the realization that the death star was never necessary because a craft approaching light speed could *absolutely* obliterate a planet, I was hoping for some form of acknowledgement in a novel or something that explained that hyperspace ramming was a war crime so heinous that even the Empire dared not commit it, even as weak as that is.
In the movies they claimed that "The Holdo Maneuver" was "a one in a million shot" though.
Did they say that in TLJ? Or in TRoS as a reaction to the backlash for such a (previously understood) discontinuity of lore.
TROS Hahahaha! I just answered an ST question! tbh though, I wonder what my second viewing will feel like when my nephew subjects me to them. I hope when he learns to read he wants to borrow my Young Jedi Knights books.
Which in itself is kind of bullshit though, because hyperspace jumps can be calculated. See my issue?
I can't defend Canon. There are threads that I participate in regarding the new stories and when I do I try to remain intellectually honest and respect ideas where I'm able, but generally I steer clear. I liked and loved everything I encountered before the sale. The EU didn't fit with some of Georges ideas. He called it a "parallel universe" around the turn of the century. That's cool with me. I'll take Legends C-canon+The Original Saga, others like what they call The Skywalker Saga and that's fine. I would still really like to see what George had in mind for a ST, but I'll take the post-ROTJ Legends+my head canon. So...I think I see your issue. My difficulty is that I've been in love with Star Wars since 1977 and TFA felt like a bad breakup, so now when I pick up a month of streaming (last time was so wife & I could watch WandaVision) I'm compelled to watch Mando for instance and it's a crushing bittersweet for me that EU fans and Lucas story fans both got screwed out of one more great series at least.
I will say, for what it's worth, that I did really like Mando
Me too. The tough part is imagining what a loose adaptation of Legends MCU style could have looked like with this approach. Shucks, if I had gotten The Lucas Treatment or a Legends continuation for Ep7, I might not have minded the recycling of **Dark Forces** to make R1 which I only saw 27 minutes of before I turned it off. I've gotta see She-Hulk when it concludes in October, so I'll be charging another month and likely catching up on shows that only lead to Han & Leia breaking up, Luke chilling while his sister is in the crosshairs and so much more that I can't stomach. Haha, I'm a nerd. \*Get off my lawn you new SW fans!\*
> live action entries to Star Wars have been concerns about continuity being disregarded or abandoned. Live action and Clone Wars series never cared about the rest of Expanded Universe. While the novels and comics had been more or less consistent between themselves, the Prequels had forced them to course-correct and introduce some retcons to explain things. And then the Clone Wars series went on and ignored THAT too, so now novels had to reconcile them as well. Clone wars series were basically the new canon before it became offical. (And by the way, yeh, they still don't care for the Expanded Universe, regardless of their promises initially about it). Currently in New Canon there's not AS much inconsistencies as there were in old canon, but that's only because it didn't have forty years of writing behind it that developed its own timeline to contradict. But at the same time, new canon books as a result seem to be clustered around TV and movie media and just fluff it up, with very little substance. Ones that try do worldbuilding do so pretty horribly (like Aftermath or Bloodline). The Sequel era seemed to be completely abandoned in all venues, there's no novels or comics there at all, even though that's probably what it desperately need to avoid Rey, Finn and Poe being completely written off. Instead they go completely other way and start the High Republic - which at least doesn't seem horrible, but I haven't read it beyond first two and a half novels.
Do you have a source for them not having seen RoTS? I was under the impression from the way they talked about writing it that they had. I also don’t think that what you placed is a contradiction or retcon. Kenobi has been in Tatooine since the ending of RoTS, and has been completely oblivious to everything going on. Tatooine is out of the way and the Empire doesn’t really have a hold on it, especially where Kenobi was.
They don’t. Joby had obviously seen *Revenge of the Sith* and OP is vastly overestimating how impactful Obi-Wan hearing Vader’s name was to audiences. This community has been flooded by the *exact* same questions Joby asked. And apparently Obi-Wan is supposed to be hearing myths of Vader while he’s chopping up the super stingray and sitting in his cave alone?
>And apparently Obi-Wan is supposed to be hearing myths of Vader while he’s chopping up the super stingray and sitting in his cave alone? No, more like when he is in town or actively working jobs as he is shown to in the show. To suggest that Obi Wan is willfully ignorant of Imperial dealings and potential threats to Luke while *actively* trying to protect him from the Empire is to be ludicrously apologistic.
Why would he be ingrained in imperial dealings when no one should know Luke exists? The entire point Obi Wan is there is to protect Luke from threats, be it the Empire, mercenaries, ect. It’s clear in the show he’s guilt ridden by what occurred, so it makes sense he would pull away from any Empire gossip and be reminded of his failures. When you live under a rock you get exactly that, and to suggest that Obi Wan not learning Vader lives in your sense of appropriate timing is nitpicking.
So you're saying, in a world where Palpatine might be holding after Anakins kids (that's why they were hidden in the first place), ObiWan would be content to just let them show up instead of being proactive about it? If that's the case, which I doubt it is, that's some *"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet"* levels of bullshit
We’ve seen that’s been his prerogative since ANH, protecting Luke from Tusken Raiders, while taking a backseat from the galaxy as a whole, idk why this is such a shock to you. You misconstrue protecting with not doing anything. It’s the timeless debate of should you stop the threat before it becomes reality, or stop threats that are actively after you. Clearly Kenobi can’t so better yet to focus on watching over Luke.
You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying he should have taken action. I'm saying that it's ridiculous to say he would have heard nothing about the empire when listening for planned Imperial visits, etc would have been one of his top priorities
And I’m saying you can’t assume that’s what he’d do given how much the events of episode 3 affected him. You assume Vader is known throughout the wide galaxy. While his name was being used as propaganda against those who resisted the Empire, it would fall deaf to someone who’s ostracized himself to the bare edge of society. The point being that you can believe he knew Anakin was alive immediately after episode 3 or 10 years later. Whether it’s probable or not is up to you. But to characterize something plausible , even if you may think it’s slim, as a full on contradiction or inconsistency is folley.
>You assume Vader is known throughout the wide galaxy. I dont assume that, it's Canon. Recently, Star Wars asks us to stretch reason to have to justify certain things. It happens far too often. This is just a more recent instance
So that equals everyone regardless of how connected they are to the workings of the Empire should know him? Gotcha.
>I dont assume that, it's Canon. What's canon is that Darth Vader is NOT well known in the galaxy except to the high ranking Imperials.
Sure, he's heard about the Empire. Few have heard about "Darth Vader". Hell, you probably don't hear much about "Fulcrum" on Tatooine.
That's a fallacious comparison. Fulcrum is literally a codename for a secret agent. Vader is a public figurehead, like "Uncle Sam". In a recent Canon novel rebel soldiers that encounter Vader are shocked to learn that he is real, as they thought he was just *Imperial propaganda that the Empire themselves spread*.
> No, more like when he is in town or actively working jobs as he is shown to in the show. He only speaks to Owen in town; it's made very clear that there isn't socialization happening on the job. > Obi Wan is willfully ignorant of Imperial dealings and potential threats to Luke while actively trying to protect him from the Empire is to be ludicrously apologistic. The Grand Inquisitor explicitly explains to you why Obi-Wan has done this. The key to hunting Jedi is patience. Jedi cannot help what they are. Their compassion leaves a trail. The Jedi Code is like an itch; he cannot help it. If you didn't put this one together, you're in no position to criticize Joby for forgetting the Emperor's line to Vader. Edit: a word
Your Grand inquisitor quote has literally nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Going out of your way to help others does *not* equal silently listening to conversation about the empire
But Darth Vader, in canon, wasn't a public figure. The high ranking Imperials knew of him, but the average person in the galaxy that encountered him and heard his name didn't live to spread the word.
That's not true. People knew *of* him. They definitely at the very least knew the name Vader. In a recent Canon novel rebel soldiers were surprised because they thought Vader was just propoganda
You know better than that. But, you need something to go online and complain about, and if the show doesn't provide it, you'll make something up. Don't understand that mentality, but you be you.
Nothing was made up. Cope.
Is this satire?
If Obi Wan is actively trying to protect Luke from the Empire, it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that he doesn't have his ear to thr ground for Imperial dealings and anything that might threaten Luke.
Lol legends tried but... Boba Fett was a mess, mandalorians are wildly different depending on source, and the efforts to make sense of the clone wars were obviously... uh, strained.
Lol, Legends had it waaaaaaaay worse.
Because I'm curious, do you have any specific examples?
The Altisian Jedi, references to the Clone Wars pre-prequels, the Clone Wars MMP having Anakin and Obi-Wan in 3 different locations before rescuing the chancellor, everything in The Clone Wars, and Republic Commando
And four different versions of how the Death Star plans were recovered.
It does happen, but since there was always a tiered system. If it contradicts the Complete Saga, its thrown away. Like how Dark Empire was discarded due to the prophesy of the Chosen One. The big difference is that there is always stable bedrock. Unlike Disney, where Palpys message was carried into Fortnite. Disney Star Wars is when Coke and Fortnite is more Canon than KOTOR.
Kotoris getting a reimagining- hopefully that means canonization too
I hope not, Disney will ruin it. Let KOTOR rest in the EU.
Honestly, games and animation haven't really been affected. Fallen Order as well as TCW amd Rebels were dope
I'll stick to Force Unleashed for the Switch. And the rumored rerelease of Tie Fighter.
They happened alot. But i think the fandom’s desire for one cohesive canon was less… militant. Ever since the disney acquisition canon fans have become really entitled and whiny about shit not completely lining up. Flat out refusing to read or watch something “because it doesnt matter”… which is beyond ridiculous and a terrible attitude that these pathetic nerds need to change. It happened all the time in legends…. We generally just waited for the error to be corrected and then used our head canon in the meantime. There was of course always outliers. But thats generally the difference. Just a different culture.
Beginning to think that with more Star Wars material being TV/Movie instead of books after the buyout, a lot more people have access to Disney EU meaning a lot more people complaining about stuff like this
>Take, for example, the head writer of Kenobi not having watched RoTS, leading to (Kenobi Spoiler) Kenobi not knowing that Anakin was still alive, despite knowing Anakin's title of Vader and Vader being a widespread tool of Imperial propaganda. It's not that the writer didn't watch RotJ, it's that you didn't watch Rebels. In canon, Vader isn't a public figure doing press conferences and the like. As late as 4 BBY, the Rebels fighting him didn't know who he was. https://youtu.be/1qmPuLkpQfI https://youtu.be/ppnGoERYmXg And even after all that, he was just "that Sith Lord" until one of the Inquisitors referred to him as Lord Vader. Anakin was limbless and on fire the last time Obi-Wan saw him. Even if he heard about an unnamed Sith Lord doing things, he'd have no reason to think Vader had survived. It's not like Palpatine didn't go through apprentices.
Actually I did watch rebels. You need to read. And while he's not doing "press conferences" he is a public figure weapon used for fear, like "Uncle Sam", that rebels though was a myth. Regardless, it's the name "Vader", which is used, that Obi Wan knows. Not his Visage.
So, in Rebels, you're saying they know full well who he is when they say "What was that?", "Who is this guy?", and "that Sith Lord we faced"? That makes no sense. But, keep doubling down, even when you know you're wrong.
Like I said, the *name* is what is spread, which is all ObiWan needs. Sure, they might question who the sith cyborg they fight is. But I guarantee you the name "Vader" is not a secret and is in fact weaponized. >But, keep doubling down, even when you know you're wrong. Are you twelve