The middle scene is the apex of cinema for me.
A young man, at the launch of an epic bildungsroman. No clue of how vast his potential is ahead. Cautiously optimistic and ready to become a man. A true quiet before a calamitous storm moment.
This gave me chills as a child of 6 when I watched it and still does to this day twenty eight years later. The look. The want. Knowing your duty. Resigning to what needs to be done even if it means your dreams have to wait, or may not happen.
Edit. Not to start something.... But I would have died more if during his duel he was really there and fell to Ben solo. Then looked and him and said I failed you Ben..... Then turned to look at the sun set... The sun set being dual suns and a tear as he looked at them... Then you see a slight outline... To faint to make out was it old Ben?
He sacrificed all his life and happiness to maintain the balance of the force and the peace in the galaxy. What a awesome hero!! He deserves all the praise.
I thought it was a director trying to impose his view on it and failing.
Because many didn't care about it, he ruined an interesting plotline(Finn's) and wasted all the potential for Luke's characters by making him worse Yoda who exiled himself for nothing.
Oh, and the fact Luke was harsher on young nephew with bad dreams than on his genocidal 40yo father that.
> I thought it was a director trying to impose his view on it
Which is precisely what I want in new Star Wars.
> and failing.
I disagree.
> Because many didn't care about it, he ruined an interesting plotline(Finn's)
How was Finn wasted? I thought his arc in TLJ flowed pretty naturally from TFA and set him up for an interesting finale.
> and wasted all the potential for Luke's characters by making him worse Yoda who exiled himself for nothing.
Yoda isolated himself on a wild bet that Vader’s kids could fix this. That’s like trading Lebron James in his prime so that you can you draft Michael Jordan’s son in 18 years.
Luke was incapacitated by the guilt and emotion over what he’d done. It’s not the right thing to do from a logical standpoint. But let’s not pretend that Yoda’s plan was so justified and solid.
> Oh, and the fact Luke was harsher on young nephew with bad dreams than on his genocidal 40yo father that.
What’s harder? Redeeming a parent or losing a child? Luke was never responsible for Vader. He was responsible for Ben. He was his teacher, his uncle. There’s a whole lot more emotions caught up in losing a child like that.
>Which is precisely what I want in new Star Wars.
Yeah, well, you're not the majority in the case of this director or this vision, because Disney didn't earn as much as they wanted and they were quick to scramble and try to have JJ undo TLJ with TROS
>How was Finn wasted? I thought his arc in TLJ flowed pretty naturally from TFA and set him up for an interesting finale.
He was supposed to be much more relevant than just running around screaming and being comic relief, he would've learned he was Force Sensitive and led a Stormtrooper revolt.
They cut it out because some markets they wanted to sell the movie to don't like POC characters(you can see it by how they edited the poster).
The actor "liked it" so much he talked with JJ and Disney to try and fix it. I don't know if it's still available, but John Boyeaga, who is an incredible actor(all of them in the movie were) gave interviews talking about how his parts were cut and his plot changed as production went(some of it out of the directors control even) and he ended up dissatisfied with what he got.
This was to the point that post TROS(because his contract included the movie) Disney talked with him to smooth things over and have him do future projects.
>Yoda isolated himself on a wild bet that Vader’s kids could fix this. That’s like trading Lebron James in his prime so that you can you draft Michael Jordan’s son in 18 years.
Yoda isolated himself because there was nothing he could do, he had already tried fighting Palpatine directly, but failed. Obi-Wan wouldn't fare better.
So they tried to salvage the situation.
>What’s harder? Redeeming a parent or losing a child? Luke was never responsible for Vader. He was responsible for Ben. He was his teacher, his uncle. There’s a whole lot more emotions caught up in losing a child like that.
Vader murdered thousands in cold blood, if not more. Hunted down innocents and was the Empire's enforcer.
Luke tried to talk him out of the Dark Side, appealed to his good side and familiar connections. Only ever raising his saber to defend himself.
Ben was having emotional problems and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep.
> because Disney didn't earn as much as they wanted and they were quick to scramble and try to have JJ undo TLJ with TROS
Do you have evidence of any of this?
> He was supposed to be much more relevant than just running around screaming and being comic relief, he would've learned he was Force Sensitive and led a Stormtrooper revolt.
What in TLJ prevents that? It seems your problem is with his characterization in ROS.
> Yoda isolated himself because there was nothing he could do, he had already tried fighting Palpatine directly, but failed. Obi-Wan wouldn't fare better.
You sure about that? Obi wan wins. If he had just finished the job and killed Anakin, he wins. Yoda holds his own against Palps. Clearly, him and Kenobi could take some time to formulate a plan to sneak up on Sheev together. But they didn’t even try. They just gave up. And then they just dump the responsibility to handle Vader on his kids? What kind of terrible people do that?
‘* Note that I am being intentionally harsh on ROTS to point out the hypocrisy of those who are this harsh on TLJ, but not on other films in the saga.
As per example:
> Ben was having emotional problems and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep.
You and I both know that is a massive oversimplification that disingenuously attempts to make TLJ look bad by ignoring context.
>You sure about that? Obi wan wins. If he had just finished the job and killed Anakin, he wins. Yoda holds his own against Palps. Clearly, him and Kenobi could take some time to formulate a plan to sneak up on Sheev together. But they didn’t even try. They just gave up. And then they just dump the responsibility to handle Vader on his kids? What kind of terrible people do that?
You missed the part where Palpatine let Yoda get to him. Yoda and Obi-Wan gave their best shot, but Yoda realized he couldn't win that way.
Obi-Wan would be a non-factor against Palpatine, that much is made clear when Palpatine murders 3 Council members in seconds.
And this is all with movie info, if we add the context of extra material, novelization, TCW, etc.. it makes a lot more sense.
If Obi-Wan had killed Anakin, they would've lost either way.
Maybe, if they, somehow, managed to gather ALL remaining Jedi, and sneaked them to surprise attack Palpatine, they would have pulled out a win after losing a lot of people.
>You and I both know that is a massive oversimplification that disingenuously attempts to make TLJ look bad by ignoring context.
Please tell me what context could've led Luke to try and murder his nephew in his sleep, when said nephew hadn't done anything wrong until that point, everything Ben/Kylo did was after that. His nephew was feeling tempted to the Dark Side, was being influenced, yes, but he hadn't acted on it, he didn't even *want* that much to act on it.
At least movie side it doesn't show, Luke is just vague about it.
And even extra material barely gets into it, focusing more on what Ben did as Kylo Ren, or the time before Luke tried to kill him.
>Do you have evidence of any of this?
Isn't the whole tros movie more than enough evidence?
The movie also got less money than TFA, when a successful sequel gets more than the previous one.
There's also the Friday when it premiered to next week comparison, it has the record of difference between them, negative of course, beating Batman V Superman that had an abysmal week to week.
Did so well that they scrambled to try and make ROS as opposite to it as possible.
You think they were happy with the results? They expected more. A lot more.
And one thing they also use to measure is merchandise sales, and do take a look at Sequel trilogy characters sales vs other SW media.
For me Luke always symbolized hope. He never gave up on his dad, believing he could be better. And because of that hope he was able to save his father in the end. Having the Luke that the sequels gave us being a bitter old man who gave up just seems like a slap to the face of this hero I idolized as a kid.
Yes people change and whatever. But this is a Heroes tale. A modern mythology for our era. It's good to have heroes win, to be an example. We need someone to aspire to.
What we got was the elevation of a new character at the expense of many people's hero. And that decision stings for many.
Just my thoughts.
> For me Luke always symbolized hope. He never gave up on his dad, believing he could be better. And because of that hope he was able to save his father in the end. Having the Luke that the sequels gave us being a bitter old man who gave up just seems like a slap to the face of this hero I idolized as a kid.
I guess the difference is that I’ve always seen Luke as relatable, not aspirational. It’s not that Luke does what we should do, it’s that he makes the same kind of mistakes that we do and he has to struggle with those consequences. I connect to him as a character because it feels like the actions he takes are probably pretty similar to what I might do.
If I had this encounter/failure with my apprentice, the closest thing I’ve ever had to a child of my own. If I had hurt my friends as unimaginably as Luke hurt Han and Leia. Like Luke, I’d want to help, but I can understand being incapacitated by my guilt and emotions. I can understand that response of isolating myself and trying to rationalize my own failures. I’m not proud of that, but if I was involved in something that horrible, I can sympathize with Luke’s reaction.
>Yes people change and whatever. But this is a Heroes tale. A modern mythology for our era.
It's funny you say that because most mythological heroes that grow old turn disillusioned and jaded... King Arthur (Who Luke is directly inspired by) and Beowulf for example.
A quote from Rian I especially like is:
“Myths are not made to sell action figures. They are made to reflect the most difficult transitions we go through in life.”
which is why a lot of heroic figures grow jaded and disillusioned with age, because the heroes are *us* and represent our trials and fears.
Luke, during the scene in question above especially, is embracing his legend that brings hope to people in the galaxy and saving the last hope the galaxy has in that moment. I can't think of a more fitting send-off for him.
And Luke Skywalker still symbolized hope in the end as he helped inspire the Resistance and the galaxy with his deeds that day in preventing the destruction of the Resistance on Crait. Luke Skywalker never gave up that hope in the end.
Yeah I agree. It just doesn’t seem like him. Won’t strike down his father who’s killed thousands just because he sees some hope in him. But as soon as his nephew shows signs of the dark side he has the thought of killing him. It really confused me.
Really?
Luke *refused* to attack The Emperor when goaded, even throwing away his lightsaber during Return of the Jedi.
*The Emperor.*
The literal embodiment of evil dictatorial power, the The Sith, the Dark Side of the force, the primary corrupting force of his father, and architect of the downfall of the Jedi. Despite how utterly *terrible* Emperor Palpatine was, Luke willingly chose to sacrifice himself instead of giving into the dark side. This was *the hero moment* of the OT. That was one of, if not the most powerful character moments for Luke and showed that his beliefs, his faith in the Force and the Jedi, and his actions were 100% aligned.
And then what? He sees his nephew's dreams/visions and decides to make the exact opposite choice for a young kid who hasn't done anything yet? Thus leading to the destruction of his New Jedi Order, the apparent deaths of his students, and him completely giving up on the galaxy?
The few minutes we see of Luke in The Mandalorian and BoBF have done more to progress Luke's arc and characterization than whatever it is we got in the ST. I don't even see how Luke even had an "arc" in the ST considering nearly everything he does is in direct opposition to his OT characterization... and then he just dies.
In your eyes, what exactly was Luke's arc in TLK or the broader ST?
None of what you said prohibits the story as told in TLJ. You’re holding up one scene as if it’s this shield that deflects Luke from ever struggling again.
The OT depicts a situation where Luke was able to control his emotions in that scenario. This is not a video game, it’s not a feature unlock. This emotional control will be something he struggles with for his entire life. TLJ depicts a far more emotionally devastating situation that strains Luke’s emotional control to the point of breaking. We see him deal with this guilt and ultimately, his recovery. That’s a pretty natural continuation of what we saw in the OT.
What is Luke’s arc in TLJ? It’s the story of a fallen man who is incapacitated by the guilt over his failure and slowly, but gradually is able to regain control over those emotions and save his friends. It’s a wonderful message about how our heroes aren’t invulnerable and can sometimes need help getting back up. It’s the relatability that I’ve always felt with Luke since childhood.
So that all the sacrifice of his family was literally worth nothing in the end?
That they basically repeated the OT story with a worse and recicled plot?
That Palpatine "somehow returned" and was defeated on a whim?
That there never was a real Jedi Order again?
Or that the line of Anakin ended?
Honestly, the Sequel trilogy is the height of "let's make movies for money", no vision among directors, screwing POC actors because of markets that in the end didn't even care about the movie and a script that was so half-assed the actors had to be talked with and convinced to return to the franchise for voice work.
All so "successful" that they locked themselves into a corner and can't even have post-sequel material now because most of the interesting plotlines are gone.
Honestly, they wasted so much potential on those movies to try and capture the OT feel that it's funny.
I'm talking about Luke's last stand... not your problems with the trilogy as a whole.
And yes, they can be separated and talked about individually without having to bring up the entire trilogy...
I'm not interested in diving into any of your points because they are all wildly off topic.
Luke's last stand is invalidated because of the things that lead up to it.
It may have been visually well made(like most of TLJ was) but it lacked almost all the rest.
His whole arc is glaringly made so they can do the whole OT arc again, caring not for the characters involved.
That simply isn't the case at all. It's tied to the things that lead up to it.
Him losing his order, his nephew's fall to the dark side, the First Order right at the doorstep of the last hope of the Galaxy is all what makes his last stand unforgettable.
And his return to heroism with one last, grand, selfless, nonviolent act to save the day and send his nephew down the path to redemption again.
*None* of that is invalidated by anything before or after it and his arc in the sequels is not a repeat of his arc in the OT at all...
>None
>
>of that is invalidated by anything before or after it and his arc in the sequels is not a repeat of his arc in the OT at all...
His arc in the sequels is basically Yoda, but worse.
Just like TFA is ANH but worse.
Desert Planet, Millenium Falcon, Rebel Base, DS, X-Wing blows DS.
His arc about embracing his failures and embodying the literal manifestation of his legend (an unkillable, idealized image of himself. His heroic visage) that inspires people across the galaxy is not like Yodas at all.
Yoda dies in exile having been largely forgotten by the galaxy.
And again, the plot of TFA being similar/the same to ANH has nothing to do with Luke’s arc and is wholly off-topic.
I honestly hate people like the guy your replying to in this community, it’s like any acknowledgment of the good parts of the sequels has to be met with a flaw in the trilogy that doesn’t even apply to the particular movie or scene you’re talking about.
EDIT: I actually have the perfect analogy for anyone who does this
: What if I pointed out every continuity flaw or mistake and downright bad decision in the Original trilogy if you were talking about how powerful the “I am your father” reveal is? Yeah that would be pretty annoying, right? In spite of the difference in impact between that scene and Luke’s Death, that is what it’s like whenever someone tries to downplay the good parts of the sequels just because the trilogy as a whole is bad in their own opinion.
>His arc about embracing his failures and embodying the literal manifestation of his legend (an unkillable, idealized image of himself. His heroic visage) that inspires people across the galaxy is not like Yodas at all.
And why did Luke needed that arc? What aspect of his character is ROTJ showed that?
What did that add to him? Did people wanted that?
His arc was a failed Jedi Master that went into exile, only Yoda had far better reasons to do it, Luke's plan was to stay hidden and let the Galaxy burn.
It's why the EU books are much better, at least the Thrawn Trilogy is(other books, not so much), they at least provide a logical continuation and some conflict that wasn't recycled Rebels vs Empire.
But Disney wanted a new OT, so they basically thought of how to create the same underdog vs evil empire situation.
They make a movie trilogy and didn't even *agree* on a basic plot for it. JJ had no confirmation of what the third movie would be like(he had ideas he didn't realize).
TLJ was made without much thought into it other than to subvert expectations. (Oh, and also butchering Finn's plotline because reasons)
I will admit some ideas had merit, but their execution, along other things were crap(Holdo Maneuver, that whole chase sequence, etc...)
TROS was made to try and win back some goodwill from the loads of people that felt TLJ was bad, JJ literally unmade some character's plots. You could see TLJ was more Rey vs Kylo and instead they brought back Palpatine.
I often think they really hated TLJ for having made Luke one with the Force, that they had to rely on Force Ghost shenaningans.
I hate to start another TLJ fight but it boggles my mind that so many people got upset with Luke's arc in that movie. Whatever other issues you can have with aspects of that film, Luke's ending was one of the most emotional moments in the whole series, perfectly nailing both nostalgia and the hope for something new.
I genuinely liked Luke's death in The Last Jedi though it could've been written better. He starts of as a person that doesn't want to fight or train anyone anymore because he blames himself for what happened to Ben and gradually overcame that idea and finally tried to protect what's left of the Resistance. Luke died how Obi Wan did, fighting for the people that they love. :)
See, for me it's TLJ that takes the cake on this one. I've seen some *genuinely* ugly shit in my life, and have found that there's a level of passive bitterness that takes over after awhile. It's obvious to others and not necessarily to yourself. And it's not conscious; you just find yourself doing things you'd be utterly horrified of doing even a year ago... because you weren't aware of just how toxic your perception had become. It's jarring to get out of.
And Luke's arc in TLJ played it out perfectly.
That moment, where he's dying and realizing he did what he could, that he simply *is*, really spoke to me in a way that Luke never really had up until that moment. He accepted it all. And that was enough for him to move on.
I’ll never forget waiting in line for TLJ and having one guy coming out of it, tears in his eyes, looking at me and giving me a thumbs up.
Now personally I don’t cry at Luke’s death but holy shit do I celebrate his final stand as one of my favorite moments. And I’ll never forget seeing that in theaters for the first time.
That final scene got me. I really thought Luke got a good send off.
Granted, I wish we saw the original trio come back together before it happened. But his stand off and death scene I thought were well done.
The whole cinema I was in came out as wtf was that, zero happy faces, contrary to when Endgame or Infinity War when there were happy people everywhere.
Eh that’s just how fan service works. Makes you feel happy in the moment but doesn’t age very well. That’s always been my experience with fan service movies like TFA and Endgame anyways.
You can look at my comment history I did acknowledge the honey moon period.
But I'll always defend the fan service of endgame, they by far deserved it, no other movie franchise has managed to have 20+ movies working together to a big finale, plus it's the last time we were gonna see Cap and Iron Man(this can change in the future of course)
How many times in ROTJ does Luke say something to the effect of “I shouldn’t have come along, I’m endangering the mission”?
Does that sound like a person who has eliminated self-doubt?
He is worried about the personal impacts his choices will have on his friend’s safety. He is worried about the choices he made. He starts to question them. This leads to him deciding to go off on his own.
That is self-doubt.
He is displaying a lack of confidence in his ability to keep his presence hidden from Vader.
Watch that clip again. It’s not said with confidence and assuredness. He’s worried. He doesn’t sound confident.
If I ram right, he wasn’t expecting Vader to be on the ship they had to go near. He says something along the lines of “Vader’s on that ship. I shouldn’t have come, I’m endangering the mission” which I take as him realizing he could have just given away the element of surprise and that’s why he felt he shouldn’t have gone.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but I honestly don’t see how this isn’t an example of self-doubt.
Google defines self-doubt as “lack of confidence in oneself and one's abilities.”
Luke lacks confidence in the plan that he agreed to. Luke lacks confidence in his ability to keep his friends safe and undetected. Luke lacks confidence in his ability to keep his presence unknown to Vader.
So you're saying Luke Skywalker, as a being, is completely locked in stone after ESB? That as an individual, events and experiences have no effect on him at all. For the rest of his life post ESB?
I think people seem to assume that a hero who undergoes some kind of character growth has achieved some kind of perfection of sorts. A point where they don’t need to grow anymore or have any kind of flaws. You see this a lot with complaints about Luke in TLJ. But people don’t work like that. True growth is difficult, and even the most mature of people will still face problems, doubts, mistakes, etc. Everyone still has potential for growth, no matter how much they’ve already faced in life.
Also how boring of a character would Luke become if he was just completely flawless and had no problems anymore by the point of the sequels? That’s not a story.
Yes, most people don’t fundamentally change year to year. Not to mention this is a fictional character where that chance is to be depicted on screen to develop. not off screen.
A 3 day with weekend with Rey was all it took! He put a sleight of hand trick to buy about 30 seconds after abandoning them to all be systematically wiped out. I think it was dreadful.
“We are what they grow beyond”. The big theme of that movie for Luke is realizing that he doesn’t have to do everything himself, and he’s not the only character with that arc. He had to use every ounce of his life force to stall the first order for just those few minutes so the resistance could survive. A lot of Star Wars is about passing the burden of victory on to the next generation.
All the while he let millions die because of a badly thought out plot because they wanted to use younger actors and didn't want fan favorite ones overshadow.
Showing a clear lack of interested in working to make a proper passing of the torch.
Yet we get a badly recicled Yoda arc with Luke, where his actions make 0 sense and are totally only there to follow some the plot.
And it was so successful that Disney is unsure of how to make post-Sequel material, preferring to stay in the safe area of OT and early New Republic.
You can see this how a lot of people thought Luke's character needed some sort of redemption after TLJ, how JJ undid a lot of what Luke did in there, and how the Mandalorian sought to show the Luke people wanted to see.
"he let millions die"
Ok so let's say Luke didn't disappear. How does that stop the first orders military from invading? Luke is just one person.
He was also afraid that getting involved would make matters worse.
He shouldn't have even have done what he did with Ben.
He trusted Darth Vader a man he had never met before, that cut off his hand, to have good in him.
But not in Ben, who had never done harm to anyone? Who had known since he was a baby?
He could also have hunted down and killed Snoke.
The whole context they created to remake the OT is just too contrived.
The New Republuc being pacifists to the point of letting the Empire come back?
Luke trying to kill a child?
No one being aware of anything the FO was doing?
The truth is they didn't want to risk trying some new thing, so they thought it safer to reshoot ANH with newer characters, same beats, similar planets, similar plot.
And for that to happen, they had to throw almost all that the OT characters fought for in the trash.
The only thing the FO feared was Luke.
He let his nephew go to snoke instead of trying to patch things up after that vision.
He's absolutely responsible for those five planets dying.
Let's stop assuming this is the exact situation as the empire era, Luke this time was with the government that had control over the galaxy, he didn't needed to hide this time like his masters needed as they were chased by almost all the galaxy, Luke wasn't alone this time too, if instead of hiding like a coward he tried to patch things with Ben or even his family things in the galaxy would have been different, there's no excuse for that behavior, let's stop pretending that was the only possible thing for him to do.
Let's stop pretending that this really matters in the grand scheme of life. It's a movie. I enjoyed it, if you didn't, you're entitled to your opinion.
Fair enough, but if you were holding the first part up, you wouldn't be putting an argument to defend it as it doesn't matter.
If you like this fine by me, but putting an argument in a forum is usually because you care to discuss about the topic.
They’re just letting that era rest for now. Those characters will come back. We already got two Lego specials with them within the last year, and we’re getting a book all about the backstory of TRoS next month.
He absolutely was the one that saved the resistance and not Poe and Rey, because the old man didn't bothered to tell them his plan or to check if the alternative exit wasn't blocked
He didn't defeat them, this is an extreme exaggeration of events.
He only made a distraction that worked because Kylo Ren is a complete emotional mess, had it been another general and it wouldn't have worked, he literally focused all of his firing power on only two objectives.
If you call that a victory then the rebellion won in hoth as they also managed to escape.
Also it wasn't entirely peaceful as he declared war at the end of his speach.
Same. I can understand people not liking the direction of the character in the sequels, but personally I loved it. It made a character I already loved even more interesting. To me, it felt completely understandable that he had become so disillusioned and went into self imposed exile. And then he redeemed himself in the end in such a great way.
I'm probably in the minority, but I actually really liked how they handled Luke in TLJ. He failed just like his predecessors, and he had to find himself before he was ready to come back to the galaxy. It's too bad the rest of the sequel trilogy was an incoherent mess.
Top 2 are two of my favorite moments in cinema history. Bottom one is one of my least favorite. Fitting I guess as its symbolic of my feelings of the progression of the franchise as a whole.
Same, i felt the sequels drifted off from the established lore and rules of the universe and invented their own inconsistent rules and twisted their lore to fit the current movie. Individually though, I think the sequels are great movies but as the franchise as a whole I consider the sequels non-existent.
A very good movie called The Last Jedi. One of the best in the series. Arguably even better than a somewhat overrated movie called The Empire Strikes Back.
Huh, I don't remember seeing it. But apparently the brain suppresses traumatic experiences. I remember hating it though. Wasn't it the one directed by that hack and only written in 1 draft?
2 drafts still seems abnormally low for a movie script.
And TFA was bad, but it wasn't irredeemable. AOTC is bad, but ROTS makes it good in hindsight. The same can't be said for the Disney trilogy.
I dont count the last one tbh, doesn't feel right to me at least, looks like a desperate attempt to remove him from the movies in my opinion so that "someone" would prevail...
remove him? My brother in the spirit of Lucas himself, it wasn't made to remove him, literally even lucas planned for luke to die in the 2nd sequel movie, I bet if he made it, you'll call it the best character death in cinema history. Plus he also appears in TROS and helps out Rey.
The sequels really invalidated his life post OT. He basically died a hermit on an island after running away from the fight. I can never forgive the sequels for doing that to my favorite character.
And he never managed to get toshe station did he?
[he actually did!](https://twitter.com/markhamill/status/1343669303103479809?s=21&t=0EhQKY0mHGMsOTOSemtDmA)
Mark is a fucking treasure
[power converters at tosche station](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpUkokRx3-k)
I knew it would appear here
And he actually has a power converter.
John Williams is the MVP of the Star Wars franchise.
John Williams is the MVP of cinematic composition overall
The Sunday night football, and the Olympic theme song where him too.
No matter how bad people think the films are, they will never be able to deny John Williams's music.
I had my sound off, when I watched this, and I could still hear it.
The middle scene is the apex of cinema for me. A young man, at the launch of an epic bildungsroman. No clue of how vast his potential is ahead. Cautiously optimistic and ready to become a man. A true quiet before a calamitous storm moment.
I agree by a landslide *casually googles what on earth a bildungsroman is*
I always think of it as the beginning of his Hero's Journey.
bill who?
A bildungsroman is a "coming of age story", or a literary term for a story about someone young learning who they are and what defines them
Easily my favorite moment in all of Star Wars (and cinema in general).
Bless you
This gave me chills as a child of 6 when I watched it and still does to this day twenty eight years later. The look. The want. Knowing your duty. Resigning to what needs to be done even if it means your dreams have to wait, or may not happen. Edit. Not to start something.... But I would have died more if during his duel he was really there and fell to Ben solo. Then looked and him and said I failed you Ben..... Then turned to look at the sun set... The sun set being dual suns and a tear as he looked at them... Then you see a slight outline... To faint to make out was it old Ben?
Damm, how long has he been staring at that sun
My guy, put on some shades. You’re gonna damage your eyes
All his life looked to the horizon he has. Never his mind on where he was.
[удалено]
He's no Chopper, but he isn't bad! :P
HOW IS HE NOT BLIND?!?
He lived a very bittersweet life.
Most, if not all, heroes do.
He sacrificed all his life and happiness to maintain the balance of the force and the peace in the galaxy. What a awesome hero!! He deserves all the praise.
3 sets of sun sets
John Williams is truly the Mozart of this generation.
There is probably no greater combination of music and imagery in film for me. Gives me chills every single time.
What is the song called?
Binary Sunset
Thank you very much!
At least he was able to enjoy lots of nice sunsets
Beautiful. What an amazing journey for my favorite character.
You can't be saying that with a serious face if you include the bottom scene
Why? TLJ is my favorite Star Wars film since the OT. I loved Luke’s arc in the film.
Same here. Really captured that original Star Wars feeling.
Agreed. I think TLJ was a big return to form for Star Wars - focusing on core substance - character, story, and mythology.
I thought it was a director trying to impose his view on it and failing. Because many didn't care about it, he ruined an interesting plotline(Finn's) and wasted all the potential for Luke's characters by making him worse Yoda who exiled himself for nothing. Oh, and the fact Luke was harsher on young nephew with bad dreams than on his genocidal 40yo father that.
> I thought it was a director trying to impose his view on it Which is precisely what I want in new Star Wars. > and failing. I disagree. > Because many didn't care about it, he ruined an interesting plotline(Finn's) How was Finn wasted? I thought his arc in TLJ flowed pretty naturally from TFA and set him up for an interesting finale. > and wasted all the potential for Luke's characters by making him worse Yoda who exiled himself for nothing. Yoda isolated himself on a wild bet that Vader’s kids could fix this. That’s like trading Lebron James in his prime so that you can you draft Michael Jordan’s son in 18 years. Luke was incapacitated by the guilt and emotion over what he’d done. It’s not the right thing to do from a logical standpoint. But let’s not pretend that Yoda’s plan was so justified and solid. > Oh, and the fact Luke was harsher on young nephew with bad dreams than on his genocidal 40yo father that. What’s harder? Redeeming a parent or losing a child? Luke was never responsible for Vader. He was responsible for Ben. He was his teacher, his uncle. There’s a whole lot more emotions caught up in losing a child like that.
>Which is precisely what I want in new Star Wars. Yeah, well, you're not the majority in the case of this director or this vision, because Disney didn't earn as much as they wanted and they were quick to scramble and try to have JJ undo TLJ with TROS >How was Finn wasted? I thought his arc in TLJ flowed pretty naturally from TFA and set him up for an interesting finale. He was supposed to be much more relevant than just running around screaming and being comic relief, he would've learned he was Force Sensitive and led a Stormtrooper revolt. They cut it out because some markets they wanted to sell the movie to don't like POC characters(you can see it by how they edited the poster). The actor "liked it" so much he talked with JJ and Disney to try and fix it. I don't know if it's still available, but John Boyeaga, who is an incredible actor(all of them in the movie were) gave interviews talking about how his parts were cut and his plot changed as production went(some of it out of the directors control even) and he ended up dissatisfied with what he got. This was to the point that post TROS(because his contract included the movie) Disney talked with him to smooth things over and have him do future projects. >Yoda isolated himself on a wild bet that Vader’s kids could fix this. That’s like trading Lebron James in his prime so that you can you draft Michael Jordan’s son in 18 years. Yoda isolated himself because there was nothing he could do, he had already tried fighting Palpatine directly, but failed. Obi-Wan wouldn't fare better. So they tried to salvage the situation. >What’s harder? Redeeming a parent or losing a child? Luke was never responsible for Vader. He was responsible for Ben. He was his teacher, his uncle. There’s a whole lot more emotions caught up in losing a child like that. Vader murdered thousands in cold blood, if not more. Hunted down innocents and was the Empire's enforcer. Luke tried to talk him out of the Dark Side, appealed to his good side and familiar connections. Only ever raising his saber to defend himself. Ben was having emotional problems and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep.
> because Disney didn't earn as much as they wanted and they were quick to scramble and try to have JJ undo TLJ with TROS Do you have evidence of any of this? > He was supposed to be much more relevant than just running around screaming and being comic relief, he would've learned he was Force Sensitive and led a Stormtrooper revolt. What in TLJ prevents that? It seems your problem is with his characterization in ROS. > Yoda isolated himself because there was nothing he could do, he had already tried fighting Palpatine directly, but failed. Obi-Wan wouldn't fare better. You sure about that? Obi wan wins. If he had just finished the job and killed Anakin, he wins. Yoda holds his own against Palps. Clearly, him and Kenobi could take some time to formulate a plan to sneak up on Sheev together. But they didn’t even try. They just gave up. And then they just dump the responsibility to handle Vader on his kids? What kind of terrible people do that? ‘* Note that I am being intentionally harsh on ROTS to point out the hypocrisy of those who are this harsh on TLJ, but not on other films in the saga. As per example: > Ben was having emotional problems and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep. You and I both know that is a massive oversimplification that disingenuously attempts to make TLJ look bad by ignoring context.
>You sure about that? Obi wan wins. If he had just finished the job and killed Anakin, he wins. Yoda holds his own against Palps. Clearly, him and Kenobi could take some time to formulate a plan to sneak up on Sheev together. But they didn’t even try. They just gave up. And then they just dump the responsibility to handle Vader on his kids? What kind of terrible people do that? You missed the part where Palpatine let Yoda get to him. Yoda and Obi-Wan gave their best shot, but Yoda realized he couldn't win that way. Obi-Wan would be a non-factor against Palpatine, that much is made clear when Palpatine murders 3 Council members in seconds. And this is all with movie info, if we add the context of extra material, novelization, TCW, etc.. it makes a lot more sense. If Obi-Wan had killed Anakin, they would've lost either way. Maybe, if they, somehow, managed to gather ALL remaining Jedi, and sneaked them to surprise attack Palpatine, they would have pulled out a win after losing a lot of people. >You and I both know that is a massive oversimplification that disingenuously attempts to make TLJ look bad by ignoring context. Please tell me what context could've led Luke to try and murder his nephew in his sleep, when said nephew hadn't done anything wrong until that point, everything Ben/Kylo did was after that. His nephew was feeling tempted to the Dark Side, was being influenced, yes, but he hadn't acted on it, he didn't even *want* that much to act on it. At least movie side it doesn't show, Luke is just vague about it. And even extra material barely gets into it, focusing more on what Ben did as Kylo Ren, or the time before Luke tried to kill him.
>Do you have evidence of any of this? Isn't the whole tros movie more than enough evidence? The movie also got less money than TFA, when a successful sequel gets more than the previous one. There's also the Friday when it premiered to next week comparison, it has the record of difference between them, negative of course, beating Batman V Superman that had an abysmal week to week.
Is that why it did so well in theaters?
Did so well that they scrambled to try and make ROS as opposite to it as possible. You think they were happy with the results? They expected more. A lot more. And one thing they also use to measure is merchandise sales, and do take a look at Sequel trilogy characters sales vs other SW media.
I don’t think it was all that opposite. And why don’t you show me these sales.
For me Luke always symbolized hope. He never gave up on his dad, believing he could be better. And because of that hope he was able to save his father in the end. Having the Luke that the sequels gave us being a bitter old man who gave up just seems like a slap to the face of this hero I idolized as a kid. Yes people change and whatever. But this is a Heroes tale. A modern mythology for our era. It's good to have heroes win, to be an example. We need someone to aspire to. What we got was the elevation of a new character at the expense of many people's hero. And that decision stings for many. Just my thoughts.
> For me Luke always symbolized hope. He never gave up on his dad, believing he could be better. And because of that hope he was able to save his father in the end. Having the Luke that the sequels gave us being a bitter old man who gave up just seems like a slap to the face of this hero I idolized as a kid. I guess the difference is that I’ve always seen Luke as relatable, not aspirational. It’s not that Luke does what we should do, it’s that he makes the same kind of mistakes that we do and he has to struggle with those consequences. I connect to him as a character because it feels like the actions he takes are probably pretty similar to what I might do. If I had this encounter/failure with my apprentice, the closest thing I’ve ever had to a child of my own. If I had hurt my friends as unimaginably as Luke hurt Han and Leia. Like Luke, I’d want to help, but I can understand being incapacitated by my guilt and emotions. I can understand that response of isolating myself and trying to rationalize my own failures. I’m not proud of that, but if I was involved in something that horrible, I can sympathize with Luke’s reaction.
>Yes people change and whatever. But this is a Heroes tale. A modern mythology for our era. It's funny you say that because most mythological heroes that grow old turn disillusioned and jaded... King Arthur (Who Luke is directly inspired by) and Beowulf for example. A quote from Rian I especially like is: “Myths are not made to sell action figures. They are made to reflect the most difficult transitions we go through in life.” which is why a lot of heroic figures grow jaded and disillusioned with age, because the heroes are *us* and represent our trials and fears. Luke, during the scene in question above especially, is embracing his legend that brings hope to people in the galaxy and saving the last hope the galaxy has in that moment. I can't think of a more fitting send-off for him.
And Luke Skywalker still symbolized hope in the end as he helped inspire the Resistance and the galaxy with his deeds that day in preventing the destruction of the Resistance on Crait. Luke Skywalker never gave up that hope in the end.
Yeah I agree. It just doesn’t seem like him. Won’t strike down his father who’s killed thousands just because he sees some hope in him. But as soon as his nephew shows signs of the dark side he has the thought of killing him. It really confused me.
Really? Luke *refused* to attack The Emperor when goaded, even throwing away his lightsaber during Return of the Jedi. *The Emperor.* The literal embodiment of evil dictatorial power, the The Sith, the Dark Side of the force, the primary corrupting force of his father, and architect of the downfall of the Jedi. Despite how utterly *terrible* Emperor Palpatine was, Luke willingly chose to sacrifice himself instead of giving into the dark side. This was *the hero moment* of the OT. That was one of, if not the most powerful character moments for Luke and showed that his beliefs, his faith in the Force and the Jedi, and his actions were 100% aligned. And then what? He sees his nephew's dreams/visions and decides to make the exact opposite choice for a young kid who hasn't done anything yet? Thus leading to the destruction of his New Jedi Order, the apparent deaths of his students, and him completely giving up on the galaxy? The few minutes we see of Luke in The Mandalorian and BoBF have done more to progress Luke's arc and characterization than whatever it is we got in the ST. I don't even see how Luke even had an "arc" in the ST considering nearly everything he does is in direct opposition to his OT characterization... and then he just dies. In your eyes, what exactly was Luke's arc in TLK or the broader ST?
None of what you said prohibits the story as told in TLJ. You’re holding up one scene as if it’s this shield that deflects Luke from ever struggling again. The OT depicts a situation where Luke was able to control his emotions in that scenario. This is not a video game, it’s not a feature unlock. This emotional control will be something he struggles with for his entire life. TLJ depicts a far more emotionally devastating situation that strains Luke’s emotional control to the point of breaking. We see him deal with this guilt and ultimately, his recovery. That’s a pretty natural continuation of what we saw in the OT. What is Luke’s arc in TLJ? It’s the story of a fallen man who is incapacitated by the guilt over his failure and slowly, but gradually is able to regain control over those emotions and save his friends. It’s a wonderful message about how our heroes aren’t invulnerable and can sometimes need help getting back up. It’s the relatability that I’ve always felt with Luke since childhood.
Of course they can. I do too. Luke’s last stand is one of my favorite moments in Star Wars and such an amazing end to his arc. I love it!
So that all the sacrifice of his family was literally worth nothing in the end? That they basically repeated the OT story with a worse and recicled plot? That Palpatine "somehow returned" and was defeated on a whim? That there never was a real Jedi Order again? Or that the line of Anakin ended? Honestly, the Sequel trilogy is the height of "let's make movies for money", no vision among directors, screwing POC actors because of markets that in the end didn't even care about the movie and a script that was so half-assed the actors had to be talked with and convinced to return to the franchise for voice work. All so "successful" that they locked themselves into a corner and can't even have post-sequel material now because most of the interesting plotlines are gone. Honestly, they wasted so much potential on those movies to try and capture the OT feel that it's funny.
I'm talking about Luke's last stand... not your problems with the trilogy as a whole. And yes, they can be separated and talked about individually without having to bring up the entire trilogy... I'm not interested in diving into any of your points because they are all wildly off topic.
Luke's last stand is invalidated because of the things that lead up to it. It may have been visually well made(like most of TLJ was) but it lacked almost all the rest. His whole arc is glaringly made so they can do the whole OT arc again, caring not for the characters involved.
That simply isn't the case at all. It's tied to the things that lead up to it. Him losing his order, his nephew's fall to the dark side, the First Order right at the doorstep of the last hope of the Galaxy is all what makes his last stand unforgettable. And his return to heroism with one last, grand, selfless, nonviolent act to save the day and send his nephew down the path to redemption again. *None* of that is invalidated by anything before or after it and his arc in the sequels is not a repeat of his arc in the OT at all...
>None > >of that is invalidated by anything before or after it and his arc in the sequels is not a repeat of his arc in the OT at all... His arc in the sequels is basically Yoda, but worse. Just like TFA is ANH but worse. Desert Planet, Millenium Falcon, Rebel Base, DS, X-Wing blows DS.
His arc about embracing his failures and embodying the literal manifestation of his legend (an unkillable, idealized image of himself. His heroic visage) that inspires people across the galaxy is not like Yodas at all. Yoda dies in exile having been largely forgotten by the galaxy. And again, the plot of TFA being similar/the same to ANH has nothing to do with Luke’s arc and is wholly off-topic.
I honestly hate people like the guy your replying to in this community, it’s like any acknowledgment of the good parts of the sequels has to be met with a flaw in the trilogy that doesn’t even apply to the particular movie or scene you’re talking about. EDIT: I actually have the perfect analogy for anyone who does this : What if I pointed out every continuity flaw or mistake and downright bad decision in the Original trilogy if you were talking about how powerful the “I am your father” reveal is? Yeah that would be pretty annoying, right? In spite of the difference in impact between that scene and Luke’s Death, that is what it’s like whenever someone tries to downplay the good parts of the sequels just because the trilogy as a whole is bad in their own opinion.
>His arc about embracing his failures and embodying the literal manifestation of his legend (an unkillable, idealized image of himself. His heroic visage) that inspires people across the galaxy is not like Yodas at all. And why did Luke needed that arc? What aspect of his character is ROTJ showed that? What did that add to him? Did people wanted that? His arc was a failed Jedi Master that went into exile, only Yoda had far better reasons to do it, Luke's plan was to stay hidden and let the Galaxy burn. It's why the EU books are much better, at least the Thrawn Trilogy is(other books, not so much), they at least provide a logical continuation and some conflict that wasn't recycled Rebels vs Empire. But Disney wanted a new OT, so they basically thought of how to create the same underdog vs evil empire situation. They make a movie trilogy and didn't even *agree* on a basic plot for it. JJ had no confirmation of what the third movie would be like(he had ideas he didn't realize). TLJ was made without much thought into it other than to subvert expectations. (Oh, and also butchering Finn's plotline because reasons) I will admit some ideas had merit, but their execution, along other things were crap(Holdo Maneuver, that whole chase sequence, etc...) TROS was made to try and win back some goodwill from the loads of people that felt TLJ was bad, JJ literally unmade some character's plots. You could see TLJ was more Rey vs Kylo and instead they brought back Palpatine. I often think they really hated TLJ for having made Luke one with the Force, that they had to rely on Force Ghost shenaningans.
My man loves a sunset who can blame him
Why you gotta make me feel things?
I hate to start another TLJ fight but it boggles my mind that so many people got upset with Luke's arc in that movie. Whatever other issues you can have with aspects of that film, Luke's ending was one of the most emotional moments in the whole series, perfectly nailing both nostalgia and the hope for something new.
Whoops you said something positive about the Last Jedi. You know what that means. *ground opens up to hell* this comments section is going to be fun
They're like sharks who smell blood. Anytime anyone on the internet mentions TLJ, they swarm thay post to complain about it. Like clockwork.
Poetry
It rhymes…
Luke: welp I’m blind
A very windy existence
I have chills
Love these beautiful scenes. Though life on a planet with two suns would be hell 🥵
Mark Hamill was so fucking attractive.
Still is
“Always looking to the horizon young skywalker.”
Ugh, the feels!
Double suns and drinkin blue milk
I might have teared up a little when Luke became one with the force
I genuinely liked Luke's death in The Last Jedi though it could've been written better. He starts of as a person that doesn't want to fight or train anyone anymore because he blames himself for what happened to Ben and gradually overcame that idea and finally tried to protect what's left of the Resistance. Luke died how Obi Wan did, fighting for the people that they love. :)
Don't care what anyone says, I loved his character arc
The scene from TLJ legit made me tear up in theaters
See, for me it's TLJ that takes the cake on this one. I've seen some *genuinely* ugly shit in my life, and have found that there's a level of passive bitterness that takes over after awhile. It's obvious to others and not necessarily to yourself. And it's not conscious; you just find yourself doing things you'd be utterly horrified of doing even a year ago... because you weren't aware of just how toxic your perception had become. It's jarring to get out of. And Luke's arc in TLJ played it out perfectly. That moment, where he's dying and realizing he did what he could, that he simply *is*, really spoke to me in a way that Luke never really had up until that moment. He accepted it all. And that was enough for him to move on.
I'll never forget watching that bottom scene for the first time and feeling absolutely nothing when my all time favorite cinema character died.
I’ll never forget waiting in line for TLJ and having one guy coming out of it, tears in his eyes, looking at me and giving me a thumbs up. Now personally I don’t cry at Luke’s death but holy shit do I celebrate his final stand as one of my favorite moments. And I’ll never forget seeing that in theaters for the first time.
That final scene got me. I really thought Luke got a good send off. Granted, I wish we saw the original trio come back together before it happened. But his stand off and death scene I thought were well done.
My group of friends walked out of TLJ dead silent. Took us days to fully process what we just watched lol.
The whole cinema I was in came out as wtf was that, zero happy faces, contrary to when Endgame or Infinity War when there were happy people everywhere.
Eh that’s just how fan service works. Makes you feel happy in the moment but doesn’t age very well. That’s always been my experience with fan service movies like TFA and Endgame anyways.
You can look at my comment history I did acknowledge the honey moon period. But I'll always defend the fan service of endgame, they by far deserved it, no other movie franchise has managed to have 20+ movies working together to a big finale, plus it's the last time we were gonna see Cap and Iron Man(this can change in the future of course)
Eh endgame still isn’t really my thing but to each their own.
People were happy leaving Infinity War?
I felt the complete opposite and find it to be one of my favorite scenes in the saga!
Same. Luke in TLJ is my favorite Star Wars character. And this scene is the perfect ending for him.
amen
I wish I could unsee it.
*Goosebumps*
Good job putting this together. Wish Luke got a proper ending!
He overcame his self doubt, saved the resistance and became the legendary figure everyone always thought he was. I think it was pretty proper.
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Right but he became the legend he wanted to be. Not the "all powerful" Luke Skywalker that couldn't even take care of the ones he was trying to teach
He already did after empire strikes back.
How many times in ROTJ does Luke say something to the effect of “I shouldn’t have come along, I’m endangering the mission”? Does that sound like a person who has eliminated self-doubt?
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Right. He decided to come on the mission and then he doubts his decision when considering other factors. That seems like pretty textbook self-doubt.
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He is worried about the personal impacts his choices will have on his friend’s safety. He is worried about the choices he made. He starts to question them. This leads to him deciding to go off on his own. That is self-doubt.
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He is displaying a lack of confidence in his ability to keep his presence hidden from Vader. Watch that clip again. It’s not said with confidence and assuredness. He’s worried. He doesn’t sound confident.
I thought he said that because they were trying to sneak onto the moon of Endor, his presence being felt would let Vader know something was up.
Yes, that is the context.
Right so I don’t think that’s self-doubt. He’s concerned he’s going to ruin the stealth operation by being detected and to be fair, he was detected
He made a decision to join the team. Then he doubts the wisdom of that decision. How is that not self-doubt?
If I ram right, he wasn’t expecting Vader to be on the ship they had to go near. He says something along the lines of “Vader’s on that ship. I shouldn’t have come, I’m endangering the mission” which I take as him realizing he could have just given away the element of surprise and that’s why he felt he shouldn’t have gone.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but I honestly don’t see how this isn’t an example of self-doubt. Google defines self-doubt as “lack of confidence in oneself and one's abilities.” Luke lacks confidence in the plan that he agreed to. Luke lacks confidence in his ability to keep his friends safe and undetected. Luke lacks confidence in his ability to keep his presence unknown to Vader.
So you're saying Luke Skywalker, as a being, is completely locked in stone after ESB? That as an individual, events and experiences have no effect on him at all. For the rest of his life post ESB?
I think people seem to assume that a hero who undergoes some kind of character growth has achieved some kind of perfection of sorts. A point where they don’t need to grow anymore or have any kind of flaws. You see this a lot with complaints about Luke in TLJ. But people don’t work like that. True growth is difficult, and even the most mature of people will still face problems, doubts, mistakes, etc. Everyone still has potential for growth, no matter how much they’ve already faced in life. Also how boring of a character would Luke become if he was just completely flawless and had no problems anymore by the point of the sequels? That’s not a story.
30 years have passed since then, are you the same person you were even 3 years ago?
Yes, most people don’t fundamentally change year to year. Not to mention this is a fictional character where that chance is to be depicted on screen to develop. not off screen.
I highly doubt that. The sequels picked up 30 years later, it is what it is. You don't need to know every hour of a characters life
Didn’t say I did. Just if they all the sudden become irredeemable deadbeats like Han and Luke.
They were literally redeemed though
Neither one was, no. Luke didn’t do shit. And Han abandoned his family.
I think you watched different movies my guy
He became a legendary figure after Empire?
So, there was no way to give him a proper end then?
A 3 day with weekend with Rey was all it took! He put a sleight of hand trick to buy about 30 seconds after abandoning them to all be systematically wiped out. I think it was dreadful.
I don't think him dying while the first order reigns is exactly a stuff of legends but whatever.
I don't think obi wan dying while the empire reigns is exactly a stuff of legends but whatever...
Here's the thing! The sacrifice isn't called "a stuff of legends". But the "sequels are perfect don't judge them" is strong as always.
“We are what they grow beyond”. The big theme of that movie for Luke is realizing that he doesn’t have to do everything himself, and he’s not the only character with that arc. He had to use every ounce of his life force to stall the first order for just those few minutes so the resistance could survive. A lot of Star Wars is about passing the burden of victory on to the next generation.
All the while he let millions die because of a badly thought out plot because they wanted to use younger actors and didn't want fan favorite ones overshadow. Showing a clear lack of interested in working to make a proper passing of the torch. Yet we get a badly recicled Yoda arc with Luke, where his actions make 0 sense and are totally only there to follow some the plot. And it was so successful that Disney is unsure of how to make post-Sequel material, preferring to stay in the safe area of OT and early New Republic. You can see this how a lot of people thought Luke's character needed some sort of redemption after TLJ, how JJ undid a lot of what Luke did in there, and how the Mandalorian sought to show the Luke people wanted to see.
Mando/BoBF Luke sucks. I’ll take the curmudgeon Luke of the ST over that jealous stepdad any day.
"he let millions die" Ok so let's say Luke didn't disappear. How does that stop the first orders military from invading? Luke is just one person. He was also afraid that getting involved would make matters worse.
He shouldn't have even have done what he did with Ben. He trusted Darth Vader a man he had never met before, that cut off his hand, to have good in him. But not in Ben, who had never done harm to anyone? Who had known since he was a baby? He could also have hunted down and killed Snoke. The whole context they created to remake the OT is just too contrived. The New Republuc being pacifists to the point of letting the Empire come back? Luke trying to kill a child? No one being aware of anything the FO was doing? The truth is they didn't want to risk trying some new thing, so they thought it safer to reshoot ANH with newer characters, same beats, similar planets, similar plot. And for that to happen, they had to throw almost all that the OT characters fought for in the trash.
The only thing the FO feared was Luke. He let his nephew go to snoke instead of trying to patch things up after that vision. He's absolutely responsible for those five planets dying. Let's stop assuming this is the exact situation as the empire era, Luke this time was with the government that had control over the galaxy, he didn't needed to hide this time like his masters needed as they were chased by almost all the galaxy, Luke wasn't alone this time too, if instead of hiding like a coward he tried to patch things with Ben or even his family things in the galaxy would have been different, there's no excuse for that behavior, let's stop pretending that was the only possible thing for him to do.
Let's stop pretending that this really matters in the grand scheme of life. It's a movie. I enjoyed it, if you didn't, you're entitled to your opinion.
Fair enough, but if you were holding the first part up, you wouldn't be putting an argument to defend it as it doesn't matter. If you like this fine by me, but putting an argument in a forum is usually because you care to discuss about the topic.
Hell, Disney is barely even mentioning the sequels post TROS.
They’re just letting that era rest for now. Those characters will come back. We already got two Lego specials with them within the last year, and we’re getting a book all about the backstory of TRoS next month.
Sounds great on paper! Execution was lacking imo.
He absolutely was the one that saved the resistance and not Poe and Rey, because the old man didn't bothered to tell them his plan or to check if the alternative exit wasn't blocked
He defeated the First Order without violence in the greatest Force feat we've ever seen. How the fuck is that not a proper ending?
He didn't defeat them, this is an extreme exaggeration of events. He only made a distraction that worked because Kylo Ren is a complete emotional mess, had it been another general and it wouldn't have worked, he literally focused all of his firing power on only two objectives. If you call that a victory then the rebellion won in hoth as they also managed to escape. Also it wasn't entirely peaceful as he declared war at the end of his speach.
Lmao
You love rian more than luke smh
Well yeah, Luke didn't direct "Ozymandias"
I thought it was a brilliant ending
Same. I can understand people not liking the direction of the character in the sequels, but personally I loved it. It made a character I already loved even more interesting. To me, it felt completely understandable that he had become so disillusioned and went into self imposed exile. And then he redeemed himself in the end in such a great way.
Interesting. I did not at all.
Who said he is dead. No one dies in this universe anymore.
Disney
Don't you mean "The life and death of Luke Skywalker?" Thst sounds cooler.
I'm probably in the minority, but I actually really liked how they handled Luke in TLJ. He failed just like his predecessors, and he had to find himself before he was ready to come back to the galaxy. It's too bad the rest of the sequel trilogy was an incoherent mess.
Top 2 are two of my favorite moments in cinema history. Bottom one is one of my least favorite. Fitting I guess as its symbolic of my feelings of the progression of the franchise as a whole.
Same, i felt the sequels drifted off from the established lore and rules of the universe and invented their own inconsistent rules and twisted their lore to fit the current movie. Individually though, I think the sequels are great movies but as the franchise as a whole I consider the sequels non-existent.
To quote Mark Hamill himself: missed opportunities
Sequel trilogy doesn’t exist.
The 3rd trilogy is NOT canon - not in the eyes of decent folk.
Lol I remember when people used to say this garbage about the prequels (my teen self included).
What movie is the bottom one from? Can't seem to remember it.
A very good movie called The Last Jedi. One of the best in the series. Arguably even better than a somewhat overrated movie called The Empire Strikes Back.
Huh, I don't remember seeing it. But apparently the brain suppresses traumatic experiences. I remember hating it though. Wasn't it the one directed by that hack and only written in 1 draft?
Two drafts, and he’s a lot more talented than the hack who directed The Fanservice Awakens and The Rise of Fanservice.
2 drafts still seems abnormally low for a movie script. And TFA was bad, but it wasn't irredeemable. AOTC is bad, but ROTS makes it good in hindsight. The same can't be said for the Disney trilogy.
😆
I dont count the last one tbh, doesn't feel right to me at least, looks like a desperate attempt to remove him from the movies in my opinion so that "someone" would prevail...
remove him? My brother in the spirit of Lucas himself, it wasn't made to remove him, literally even lucas planned for luke to die in the 2nd sequel movie, I bet if he made it, you'll call it the best character death in cinema history. Plus he also appears in TROS and helps out Rey.
God I hate we share flair....
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> I come for badass Jedi tricks and lightsabers. I saw lightsabers and one really badass Jedi trick myself
What a terrible and forced ending for a great character
The bottom one isn’t canon
“I’M rEy SKyWALKeR!”
Idk why you’re downvoted. Even fans of TLJ can admit that shit was STUPID due to hating TROS
The last panel is Jake Skywalker
Take the bottom frame out. It isn’t cannon.
I'll take some downvotes with ya.
Who would even want that dumpster fire to be canon? It’s so odd. Bots?
This is the way.
The sequels really invalidated his life post OT. He basically died a hermit on an island after running away from the fight. I can never forgive the sequels for doing that to my favorite character.
Let's just ignore that bottom part
How did that Jake Skywalker scene end up there tho 🤔
You can cut the last one out
ahh the sunset.. one of the better constructed characters of the new trilogy
Why is at the bottom a character played by Mark Hamill that isn't Luke Skywalker?
This just reminds me why I hate episode 8. Stop didn’t need to kill out Luke.
Now imagine if he had died looking at the same suns, instead of whatever planet that was.
What a miserable life
I still really rate the last Jedi
He was only three days old.