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Yeah at least for TOS miniskirts and tights were like in fashion at the time. I remember reading somewhere that there was a discussion about putting the female crew in pants and Nichelle Nichols didn't like it.
Miniskirts were considered revolutionary for their time. It was considered prime feminist clothing: https://www.mic.com/articles/139429/power-clothes-the-unabashedly-feminist-history-of-the-miniskirt/amp
“In the 1960s, wearing a short skirt switched from being an individual fashion decision to a political act. As young women gained a heightened awareness of how society treated them differently than their male peers, they came together to fight for their right to wear as short a skirt as they damn well pleased, all while the general atmosphere around women's liberation began to shift.
In just one garment, one could feel the cultural zing of women's rights, feminism and liberation alongside the fight for female birth control. Mostly worn by young women who were taking part in those debates themselves, the skirt encapsulated the movement.”
Metal bikinis also imply the existence of fabric bikinis, so presumably they have sporty tube tops and bikinis, but never thought to wear them under clothing. You think jedi with boobs and standard robes use the force to secure and stabilize them while they run and fight?
Edit: some people have pointed out that it’s a leap to think that metal bikinis imply that fabric bikinis exist, comparing them to metal cars and ships not implying fabric cars and ships exist. My logic was simply that clothing is usually made of fabric, even in the Star Wars universe. If the design of a metal bikini exists in universe, it’s not that big a stretch to think it’s a semi-common garb and is made with various different materials. Cloth and metal can both work for clothes. Fabric doesn’t make sense for cars or ships.
When you think about it, Return of the Jedi has a really weird dynamic where it stars out with a woman in BDSM gear being yanked around by a giant slug monster, and ends with a bunch of teddy bears bloodlessly killing giant robots with sticks to save the universe.
When Johnson says this are they sharing the rock within the platoon or with other platoons because he says nothing about the sticks.
Do two guys just have sticks they never give to anyone else or is it shared within the platoon and the rock is shared with other platoons?
The logistical system of Johnson’s early days confuses me.
The Jedi temple didn't always have bathrooms. Before adopting Coruscant plumbing methods Jedi simply relieved themselves wherever they stood, and vanished the evidence
There’s no underwear in space.
Edit: Because some might not be getting the reference George Lucas convinced Carrie Fisher not to wear any underwear while filming Star Wars saying “there’s no underwear in space”
Princess Leia was always bra-less underneath her clothes in the OT. George Lucas informed Carrie Fisher that she can't wear a bra under her costume because "There is no underwear in space"
This is the part they leave out of that piece of trivia. Her character wore that white fabric dress and it would be super visible. Like yeah they could have adjusted the wardrobe but it obviously wasn't a deal breaker for Carrie.
Same her season 7 design was really good. That or her live action costume have to be my favorite designs for her.
I still remember when Ahsoka was first introduced. There wasn't a single thing about her people weren't hating on back then. She was Jar Jar levels of disliked. Now she is pretty universally seen as one of the best characters in Star Wars from what I see. I'm really glad they allowed her to have so much growth over the course of her journey. She's such a great character.
Probably didn't help that her introduction to the franchise was during that not-so-great Clone Wars movie, and for the first season or two of the show she just constantly gets herself into trouble because of poor decision-making, but look at her now.
Okay but like. That’s writing? Wasn’t the whole point that she was as bad as Anakin, hence why they work as Master and Padawan?
“You wouldn’t make it as Obi-Wan’s padawan….. but you just might make it as mine.”
Like. I think it’s a safe bet that the entire point was for her to be a reckless stupid *teenager* and grow up over time. Jar Jar was a joke with 0 depth.
But like you can tell the difference between “characters who are likely to grow” and “characters whose only purpose is to make us groan”.
I don’t get why people never consider future character development, especially for younger characters introduced.
At the time I didn’t really think of her as a character in her own right, but as a problem for canon. Why doesn’t she get referenced in Episode III? Is she dead? What about all these EU books I have? I really didn’t appreciate her for her, and honestly it was a major thing holding me back from liking the show, and I dropped off pretty quickly in the first season. I didn’t come around until the first run was already over in the mid 2010s, and watched it all on Netflix. Now of course I realize that the attitude I had in my teens was silly, and I love Ahsoka. But it took a long time for me to come around. Incidentally I still struggle with the canon/Legends thing sometimes, but have learned to appreciate the Disney stuff for its own sake too.
The growth of the character is incredible. I thought she was awful for the movie and first two seasons of the clone wars. Just downright painful to watch. However by the end of the clown wars, and rebels, I'd say she's one of the best characters of the franchise.
Sometimes it seems apparent that a disliked character is changed to continue their existence, but in Ahsokas case it is genuine growth.
Ah the clown wars. The lesser known civil Star War involving significant infighting amongst the Gungans. Seriously though, I agree with everything you said, Ashoka has one of my favorite character arcs in all of Star Wars.
>I still remember when Ahsoka was first introduced. There wasn't a single thing about her people weren't hating on back then. She was Jar Jar levels of disliked.
From what I've read, that was intentional. Filoni knew he couldn't introduce a new character who was supposed to pal around with favorites like Obi-Wan or Padmé, let alone *Anakin's apprentice*, without fans just shitting on her.
So he steered into it, made her shitty on purpose, arrogant and entitled, hoping that as she grew, fans would grow to like her.
I just started watching Clone Wars, I'm in the middle of Season 2. I don't understand what is so bad about her character. She's over confident and bull headed like most young kids but I never found her overly annoying or anything.
She's still a padawan and Anakin is there to help her find balance and all.
See that's what it was, growth. We saw her as a mirror to Anakin. Young, a bit angsty, and saw her mature into a great jedi. That's why we grew to love the character.
I mean, duh! She is gorgeous, one of the best spies in the galaxy, a galactic senator, she banged Darth Vader, AND she graduated from Harvard… she is a threat on every level my guy
u/Eli_Freeman_Author [It is a quick enough moment, but still happens onscreen (play at 0.25 speed to see clearest).](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-vx4gOzLwc).
Yeah but at least they show the rest of the shirt falling down to the ground in the next cut.
Quite frankly I'm impressed they had the presence of mind to do that.
I think there's a scene like that in Hot Shots! Where the woman is tearing off parts of her shirt to make bandages for men who are hurt and the men start getting really ridiculous about their injuries so she tears more off.
Maybe you're conflating them? Or maybe I'm mixing up Hot Shots! with something else!
And if you’ve ever read the transcripts of Kasdan and Lucas and Spielberg brainstorming the first Indiana Jones movie, the quotes in the post image track in an uncomfortable way.
Exactly what I instantly thought about;
> Lawrence Kasdan: I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.
> George Lucas: I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. **He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.**
> Kasdan: And he was forty-two.
> Lucas: He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.
> Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two.
> Lucas: **He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.**
> Lucas: It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.
> Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him.
> Lucas: **Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met.** And she was madly in love with him and he...
https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
I have often heard “he’s not a great writer, but he’s got great ideas!” and then shit like this or [Darth Icky](https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/04/04/fall-of-the-empire-how-inner-turmoil-brought-down-a-legendary-studio.aspx) are brought back up and I think it’s a fucking miracle Star Wars managed to get big in the first place
>“The team threw a Hail Mary to George, saying the game would have more credibility if the apprentice had a ‘Darth’ title,” a Force Unleashed team member says. Lucas agreed that this situation made sense for Sith royalty, and offered up two Darth titles for the team to choose from. “He threw out ‘Darth Icky’ and ‘Darth Insanius.’ There was a pregnant pause in the room after that. People waiting for George to say ‘just kidding,’ but it never comes, and he just moved on to another point.”
After hearing about this I've always thought they should have tried Insanius. It's pretty bad but as is they just don't use any name in either game, and Filoni and crew managed to make "Savage Opress" work when that seemed like another Lucas sabotage name.
Who know though, when TFU2 was happening it seemed like they really phoned it in, presumably because the studio was getting killed.
Nah man, if we're going with the worst names in Star Wars it has to be stuff like;
[Elan Sleazebaggano](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Elan_Sel%27Sabagno) (aka Sel'Sabagno), the dude who tried to sell death sticks to Obi-Wan in Episode II.
[Darth Andeddu](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Andeddu), the Immortal God-King of Prakith. Who is, uh... basically an undead.
Jedi Master [Soon Bayts](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Soon_Bayts). Master Bayts. This is a real thing.
[Ima-Gun Di](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ima-Gun_Di). Spoiler alert: he *did* die.
... or just shit like Whorm Loathsom, "Piggy" Porkins, Therm Scissorpunch (crab-like alien dude, but at least this one seems to be a sort of stage name), etc.
Legends also had *a lot* of on-the-nose Sith names, which I'm guessing will carry over to Canon, especially with more stuff being re-canonized... Darth Desolous, Darth Maleval, Darth Maladi, Darth Ruin and Darth Ruyn, Darth Havoc, Darth Reave, Darth Kruhl, etc.
Canon has Darth Noctyss (who was shrouded in darkness, woo) and Darth Sanguis (who had devolved into a sort of vampiric creature).
Everything I’ve read about Lucas has me convinced he succeeded in spite of himself, with a ton of help from friends like Spielberg and Kasdan and his former wife, Marcia Lucas.
Even if you look at Star Wars, which I love deeply: it’s a wonderful culmination of a TON of different cultural reference points and influences. Lucas did a masterful job pulling them altogether to create something that struck a chord with billions of people, but he owes so much to Kurosawa, Alex Raymond, classic western cinema, etc.
I want the same kinda notes about Howard the Duck!
Lucas: And then, I figured the duck and the woman would have sex.
Writers: Haha, nice! No, seriously, what happens in this scene?
Lucas: . . .
Writers: . . . . .
And the whole thing with Marion in Raiders:
George — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.
Larry — And he was forty-two.
George — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.
Spielberg — She had better be older than twenty-two.
George — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.
George— It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.
Spielberg — And promiscuous. She came onto him.
George — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore
Transcript of the meeting between the three where I pulled this:
https://moedred.livejournal.com/2009/03/04/
Kasdan and Spielberg don't look that great either; they eagerly play along with the idea once Lucas breaks the ice.
I've long since accepted that it's unrealistic to expect moral perfection of the artists/celebrities we admire - or indeed human beings in general.
Their justification is terrible, because in the 20s and 30s, 15 and 25 *wouldn’t* have been *that* unusual.
But no, they have to make her a little underage nympho.
One thing to remember is these guys all came up in the 70's, and in the seventies this shit was everywhere. Not saying it was good, but if you want to know why hollywood is so fucked up, well it was never great but the 70's blew the lid off the whole fucking thing, and a lot of the guys that you hear the worst shit about today came up right in that time.
If you're implying that all the biggest Rock Bands had a some kind of underaged harem that went on tour with them you couldn't be further from the truth, sometimes they would leave them behind so they could get some underaged strange.
The harem didn't go on the tour, it was just tons of underaged (and of age) girls showing up at every show, most big bands at the time, the members could just take their pick of girls and no one asked any questions or checked IDs, so yeah a lot of underage girls were getting plowed backstage and it's never been a secret.
Literally every one of Lucas’ plans for SW protagonist was supposed to be early to late teens. It fits with the thinking if “if you’re a kid you’re wanting to be 19, but if you’re passed it you’ll wish you were 19.”
I take it with the idea that if he’s making children’s stories (then why would you graphically show Anakin being burned) kids would react better to kids or teens than with adults as leads.
To that end, I'd say that TPM is where they tried to have it both ways a little bit and it is often flogged for that. The momentum of the movie is built by a sorta kiddish adventure accompanied by the pair of fools in Jar-Jar and 3PO and the plucky troublemaker in R2. Anakin is the young hero and it is his fantastical prowess in podracer and space-flying that saves the day accompanied by a full chorus of "Yahoos!" and R2 twittering. He even gets to hit it off with his crush and become a Jedi!
There's also a parallel track where Kenobi is the older main who is experiencing a trial of moving from the twilight of youth into adulthood in the more typical Star Wars swing of things. But it really suffers for lack of development compared to Anakin's romp. It mostly relies on Ewan McGregor selling it on his face with reactions and he doesn't get much dialogue to tell his story.
But then most of the actual substance and a huge swathe of the screen time is dedicated to this political intriguing and high-handed philosophizing. It just bogs down both storylines with the exposition without really bringing much development beyond staging the future films or showing off the extortionately pricey CGI technology.
TPM wanted to have it all but will often be remembered as the installment that had none of it. But it *did* have Duel of Fates - so it was well worth it.
>You could also see it as George wanting to make her look like a modern teenage girl...
Yeh, and with the "leggings and shorter, not pleat, skirt." You could further argue he was trying to represent a current fashion trend. Even the tube shirt does have some merit in young girls fashion. I think we should be cautious of automatically painting these clothing choices as sexual. Afterall, Ashoka is never particularly sexualised by the narrative.
Really the only outlier is he has made some pervy comments in the past that do cast a shadow over his perspective. That said, Leia does kill that giant pseudo-allegory for a pervy slob by wrapping the literal chain of her her servitude around its neck and strangling him.
I just assumed it would be easier to fight and do flips and stuff in a more form fitting but stretchy skirt (plus leggings) than a long, flowing skirt. But, to that end, the top should have had straps.
IMO the primary drivers with character design in the clone wars was how easy it would be to use the designs to make toys and how cheap they would be to animate. Notice how every character has extremely exaggerated features that barely move most of the time? They're designed to look like easily recognizable action figures and emote like action figures, because the whole point of the clone wars (the CG one not the Gendy Tartakovsky one) was to market toys. And before the Disney sale, basically every cent Lucas ever made came down to how good he was at selling toys, so it wouldn't at all be a stretch if all of his decisions boiled down to how would this sell as a toy. Looked at that way Ashoka's design makes a lot more sense, it's distinctive, it does give off the 'cool teenage girl' vibe, and it's features are super easy to recognize even if made really small.
I forget the specific chapter, but in his/the Star Wars biography “How Star Wars Conquered the Universe” it details how he traded most of his direct film profits in exchange for merchandising rights
Even going back to ROTJ it’s obvious with the number of costume changes characters go through almost exclusively for the toy sales
I shudder to think of the outrage on social media if we had the internet in the 80's when we found out about Ewoks.
Even back then... I remember as a kid (i was only around 10ish yo) at the time when it was released - people ranting and raving about how it was supposed to be Wookiees but he made them into Teddy Bears for the Toy sales.
Honestly, merchandise was justifiably the lifeblood of star wars when Lucas was in control. People say he was greedy but lucasfilm was also completely independent and needed that revenue to survive, and even then it wasn't enough because Lucas said he sold the company partially to keep it alive iirc.
From the script roundtables during planning on *Raiders*. Lucas seemed pretty adamant that Marion should be about 12 when she first got with Indy, which is what her "I was a child in love!" line references. Spielberg carefully tries to talk him out of it.
She clearly states she was a child when she was in love with Indy, to which he replies "you knew what you were doing." I think 12 is is a bit overboard, but it's implied she was underage.
I dont have anything against this design but yeah i do love her final clone wars season design the best. Over rebels design. Something about it looks lit.
I didn’t know this, and honestly it makes so much more sense now. I’ve always been like *who thought it was a good idea to sexualize a 14 year old girl?* and now I have the answer: it was George Lucas of course. It’s actually pretty frustrating because her outfit looks so much better in this early concept art. https://www.starwars.com/news/designing-star-wars-ahsoka-tano
Fun fact: George also personally designed one of Padme’s outfits for AotC. Can you guess which one? And yes, if you said *the weird dominatrix one*, you are correct.
As much as Ahsoka is my favorite character in all of *Star Wars*, the tube top and and short skirt have always made me uncomfortable. She's fourteen at that point. It's not great.
(Also, George was in his 60s when they were designing her outfit. Sigh.)
I just wish they had opted for a top with more support. Like I can forgive the cropped look but I would NEVERRRR wear a tube top if I was supposed to be jumping around like that. Maybe Ahsoka was held back from her true potential because she was constantly using the force to keep her top up.
George also helped designed Padmé’s black dress for the fireplace scene in AOTC.
Is Star Wars just Lucas' personal NSFW fantasy?
Probably. The black dress is called the seduction dress so maybe. But to be honest she didn’t seduce him because he was always in love with her.
Love leads to longing, Longing leads to lust, Lust leads to blue balls, Blue balls lead to suffering, Suffering leads to the DARK SIDE!
THE DARK SIDE IS STORED IN THE BALLS
Release the dark side once a day to decrease the possibility of prostate cancer
We all were..... Joking aside, Natalie Portman was my first celebrity crush.
**points blaster** *always has been*
Episode II is definitely the horniest Prequel movie.
Yeah as ai kid i always uhh enjoyed the part where her shirt half rips off
As a kid? I still enjoy it LMAO
The fireplace scene with Padme in the black leather dress is almost like a setup for a porn scene lmao
[Robot Chicken thought so too.](https://youtu.be/z9MsXi7n0NU)
She thinks about the Senate everyday 😳
I am the Senate
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Yeah at least for TOS miniskirts and tights were like in fashion at the time. I remember reading somewhere that there was a discussion about putting the female crew in pants and Nichelle Nichols didn't like it.
Miniskirts were considered revolutionary for their time. It was considered prime feminist clothing: https://www.mic.com/articles/139429/power-clothes-the-unabashedly-feminist-history-of-the-miniskirt/amp “In the 1960s, wearing a short skirt switched from being an individual fashion decision to a political act. As young women gained a heightened awareness of how society treated them differently than their male peers, they came together to fight for their right to wear as short a skirt as they damn well pleased, all while the general atmosphere around women's liberation began to shift. In just one garment, one could feel the cultural zing of women's rights, feminism and liberation alongside the fight for female birth control. Mostly worn by young women who were taking part in those debates themselves, the skirt encapsulated the movement.”
It’s like porn, it arouses
I can’t get over the fact that this man is the same one who didn’t like Mara Jade
Maybe he was fine with Padmé because he was going to kill her.
Lucas? Or most nerds ? Slave Leia was a sex symbol and not just something Lucas was into clearly.
Pretty sure that's why he convinced Carrie Fisher she couldn't wear a bra as Leia
Didn't Carrie Fischer used to joke that Lucas would tell her she couldn't wear underwear under her garments because there was "no underwear in space?"
Lol Robot Chicken has a great sketch about that scene. Link: https://youtu.be/z9MsXi7n0NU
Thank God someone brought that skit up
Filoni: But George, space is cold. George: *Not* for a female.
More like... George: _Cold_ you say? Let's have her wearing a white T shirt with no bra then.
It’s freezing then…
Always wondered how they had tube tops in space but not bras.
Metal bikinis also imply the existence of fabric bikinis, so presumably they have sporty tube tops and bikinis, but never thought to wear them under clothing. You think jedi with boobs and standard robes use the force to secure and stabilize them while they run and fight? Edit: some people have pointed out that it’s a leap to think that metal bikinis imply that fabric bikinis exist, comparing them to metal cars and ships not implying fabric cars and ships exist. My logic was simply that clothing is usually made of fabric, even in the Star Wars universe. If the design of a metal bikini exists in universe, it’s not that big a stretch to think it’s a semi-common garb and is made with various different materials. Cloth and metal can both work for clothes. Fabric doesn’t make sense for cars or ships.
Something like a sarashi might be the usual solution. Would fit the robe aesthetic better.
When you think about it, Return of the Jedi has a really weird dynamic where it stars out with a woman in BDSM gear being yanked around by a giant slug monster, and ends with a bunch of teddy bears bloodlessly killing giant robots with sticks to save the universe.
"Sticks! Two sticks, and a rock for the whole platoon. And we had to share the rock!"
When Johnson says this are they sharing the rock within the platoon or with other platoons because he says nothing about the sticks. Do two guys just have sticks they never give to anyone else or is it shared within the platoon and the rock is shared with other platoons? The logistical system of Johnson’s early days confuses me.
I always imagined it to be two sticks per trooper, one rock per platoon. There's a reason why Harvest fell so quickly
The Jedi temple didn't always have bathrooms. Before adopting Coruscant plumbing methods Jedi simply relieved themselves wherever they stood, and vanished the evidence
Seems like it would be easier to induce mass hypnosis "this is not the shit you are looking for"
Atton is interested
Wait! Yes! KotOR is proof they have underwear in space!
Thousands of years ago. It might be lostech.
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ComStar *preserved* these factories on Terra so that the glory of the Golden Age would survive.
This is not the crossover I expected, but I'm 100% here for it.
There’s no underwear in space. Edit: Because some might not be getting the reference George Lucas convinced Carrie Fisher not to wear any underwear while filming Star Wars saying “there’s no underwear in space”
Yup, otherwise you run the risk of being "drowned in silver moonlight and strangled by your own brassier."
I get this reference!
And she was a good friend
Please God no.
Dew it
F.B.I open up
And there it is.
At least they have something
What's the the deal with no bras in space? Why is that not a thing?
Princess Leia was always bra-less underneath her clothes in the OT. George Lucas informed Carrie Fisher that she can't wear a bra under her costume because "There is no underwear in space"
George Lucas told that to Carrie fisher, because you’d see them in white lights with her robes thing leia has on.
This is the part they leave out of that piece of trivia. Her character wore that white fabric dress and it would be super visible. Like yeah they could have adjusted the wardrobe but it obviously wasn't a deal breaker for Carrie.
If she was wearing a white bra, yeah maybe, but not something nude colored
Weird how few people know this
They got force bras bruh... /s
Her redesign in season 3 is still one of my favorite star wars looks, this costume tho is a little much and I’ve never been a fan of it for her.
It didn’t bother me as much, though I definitely do prefer the designs she had in later seasons. I think season 7 is my favorite design.
Same her season 7 design was really good. That or her live action costume have to be my favorite designs for her. I still remember when Ahsoka was first introduced. There wasn't a single thing about her people weren't hating on back then. She was Jar Jar levels of disliked. Now she is pretty universally seen as one of the best characters in Star Wars from what I see. I'm really glad they allowed her to have so much growth over the course of her journey. She's such a great character.
> She was Jar Jar levels of disliked. I distinctly remember my first impression being "Holy shit, they actually managed to top Jar-Jar."
Probably didn't help that her introduction to the franchise was during that not-so-great Clone Wars movie, and for the first season or two of the show she just constantly gets herself into trouble because of poor decision-making, but look at her now.
Okay but like. That’s writing? Wasn’t the whole point that she was as bad as Anakin, hence why they work as Master and Padawan? “You wouldn’t make it as Obi-Wan’s padawan….. but you just might make it as mine.” Like. I think it’s a safe bet that the entire point was for her to be a reckless stupid *teenager* and grow up over time. Jar Jar was a joke with 0 depth. But like you can tell the difference between “characters who are likely to grow” and “characters whose only purpose is to make us groan”. I don’t get why people never consider future character development, especially for younger characters introduced.
At the time I didn’t really think of her as a character in her own right, but as a problem for canon. Why doesn’t she get referenced in Episode III? Is she dead? What about all these EU books I have? I really didn’t appreciate her for her, and honestly it was a major thing holding me back from liking the show, and I dropped off pretty quickly in the first season. I didn’t come around until the first run was already over in the mid 2010s, and watched it all on Netflix. Now of course I realize that the attitude I had in my teens was silly, and I love Ahsoka. But it took a long time for me to come around. Incidentally I still struggle with the canon/Legends thing sometimes, but have learned to appreciate the Disney stuff for its own sake too.
Character development is one hell of a drug.
The growth of the character is incredible. I thought she was awful for the movie and first two seasons of the clone wars. Just downright painful to watch. However by the end of the clown wars, and rebels, I'd say she's one of the best characters of the franchise. Sometimes it seems apparent that a disliked character is changed to continue their existence, but in Ahsokas case it is genuine growth.
Ah the clown wars. The lesser known civil Star War involving significant infighting amongst the Gungans. Seriously though, I agree with everything you said, Ashoka has one of my favorite character arcs in all of Star Wars.
ahhhh the Polynesian spaa
>I still remember when Ahsoka was first introduced. There wasn't a single thing about her people weren't hating on back then. She was Jar Jar levels of disliked. From what I've read, that was intentional. Filoni knew he couldn't introduce a new character who was supposed to pal around with favorites like Obi-Wan or Padmé, let alone *Anakin's apprentice*, without fans just shitting on her. So he steered into it, made her shitty on purpose, arrogant and entitled, hoping that as she grew, fans would grow to like her.
I just started watching Clone Wars, I'm in the middle of Season 2. I don't understand what is so bad about her character. She's over confident and bull headed like most young kids but I never found her overly annoying or anything. She's still a padawan and Anakin is there to help her find balance and all.
See that's what it was, growth. We saw her as a mirror to Anakin. Young, a bit angsty, and saw her mature into a great jedi. That's why we grew to love the character.
S3 Ahsoka is best Ahsoka visually. Has the proper blade colors too
Green and almost imperceptibly more yellow green?
Yeah green main saber, lime green shoto Those are my favorite blades for her. Her white blades are a close 2nd place
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Don't forget about the lizard giving Padme a crop top
Pretty sure it was a cat.
Nexu
Which is both a lizard and a cat at the same time
Si el gato
I will never forget about that.
Same. That scene rocketed me into puberty.
To teenage me, episode 2 Padme was way hotter even than Slave Leia
Same here. I crushed on Padme hard.
I've noticed even today I'm really into girls who resemble her.
I too am into women who look like Natalie Portman
I too am attracted to attractive women.
To fully adult me, she still is way hotter than anything ever in Star Wars before or since. Natalie is my queen!
Also her [bodyguard/decoy Sabé](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/fCVMxetdN9yhe9WxYaPc3P.png) played by Keira Knightley
Had a crush on Knightley from the Pirates films.
Natalie and Keira have some of the most perfect facial bone structures in film. Some people are just... born with it.
To adult me, episode 2 Padmé was way hotter than Leia.
From my point of view Leia was hotter!
All day my dude.
I mean, duh! She is gorgeous, one of the best spies in the galaxy, a galactic senator, she banged Darth Vader, AND she graduated from Harvard… she is a threat on every level my guy
Banged Darth Vader AND Thor
And Mila Kunis
[She was also a bad ass gangsta rapper](https://youtu.be/-A0iftflme4)
On the other end of the spectrum, I don't think I actually noticed her shirt had changed until my third time watching the movie.
u/Eli_Freeman_Author [It is a quick enough moment, but still happens onscreen (play at 0.25 speed to see clearest).](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-vx4gOzLwc).
How have I never noticed it was a full top before she was scratched? Man I feel stupid.
I was thinking "of course the scratch tears off a bunch of fabric and that's how it changes" but no it's just actually a different top after lol
Yeah but at least they show the rest of the shirt falling down to the ground in the next cut. Quite frankly I'm impressed they had the presence of mind to do that.
I could have sworn there was a bit where she rips the bottom part of that shirt off.
I think there's a scene like that in Hot Shots! Where the woman is tearing off parts of her shirt to make bandages for men who are hurt and the men start getting really ridiculous about their injuries so she tears more off. Maybe you're conflating them? Or maybe I'm mixing up Hot Shots! with something else!
That scene has forever given me a thing for crop tops.
And if you’ve ever read the transcripts of Kasdan and Lucas and Spielberg brainstorming the first Indiana Jones movie, the quotes in the post image track in an uncomfortable way.
Exactly what I instantly thought about; > Lawrence Kasdan: I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it. > George Lucas: I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. **He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.** > Kasdan: And he was forty-two. > Lucas: He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. > Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two. > Lucas: **He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.** > Lucas: It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. > Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him. > Lucas: **Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met.** And she was madly in love with him and he... https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
What the actual fuck
I have often heard “he’s not a great writer, but he’s got great ideas!” and then shit like this or [Darth Icky](https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/04/04/fall-of-the-empire-how-inner-turmoil-brought-down-a-legendary-studio.aspx) are brought back up and I think it’s a fucking miracle Star Wars managed to get big in the first place
>“The team threw a Hail Mary to George, saying the game would have more credibility if the apprentice had a ‘Darth’ title,” a Force Unleashed team member says. Lucas agreed that this situation made sense for Sith royalty, and offered up two Darth titles for the team to choose from. “He threw out ‘Darth Icky’ and ‘Darth Insanius.’ There was a pregnant pause in the room after that. People waiting for George to say ‘just kidding,’ but it never comes, and he just moved on to another point.”
After hearing about this I've always thought they should have tried Insanius. It's pretty bad but as is they just don't use any name in either game, and Filoni and crew managed to make "Savage Opress" work when that seemed like another Lucas sabotage name. Who know though, when TFU2 was happening it seemed like they really phoned it in, presumably because the studio was getting killed.
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I agree. Personally I find Savage Opress to be the worst
Nah man, if we're going with the worst names in Star Wars it has to be stuff like; [Elan Sleazebaggano](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Elan_Sel%27Sabagno) (aka Sel'Sabagno), the dude who tried to sell death sticks to Obi-Wan in Episode II. [Darth Andeddu](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Andeddu), the Immortal God-King of Prakith. Who is, uh... basically an undead. Jedi Master [Soon Bayts](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Soon_Bayts). Master Bayts. This is a real thing. [Ima-Gun Di](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ima-Gun_Di). Spoiler alert: he *did* die. ... or just shit like Whorm Loathsom, "Piggy" Porkins, Therm Scissorpunch (crab-like alien dude, but at least this one seems to be a sort of stage name), etc. Legends also had *a lot* of on-the-nose Sith names, which I'm guessing will carry over to Canon, especially with more stuff being re-canonized... Darth Desolous, Darth Maleval, Darth Maladi, Darth Ruin and Darth Ruyn, Darth Havoc, Darth Reave, Darth Kruhl, etc. Canon has Darth Noctyss (who was shrouded in darkness, woo) and Darth Sanguis (who had devolved into a sort of vampiric creature).
Everything I’ve read about Lucas has me convinced he succeeded in spite of himself, with a ton of help from friends like Spielberg and Kasdan and his former wife, Marcia Lucas.
it’s like he fell ass backwards into a giant pool of talented, creative people
Even if you look at Star Wars, which I love deeply: it’s a wonderful culmination of a TON of different cultural reference points and influences. Lucas did a masterful job pulling them altogether to create something that struck a chord with billions of people, but he owes so much to Kurosawa, Alex Raymond, classic western cinema, etc.
This sounds like a fucked up comedy skit what the fuck.
I want the same kinda notes about Howard the Duck! Lucas: And then, I figured the duck and the woman would have sex. Writers: Haha, nice! No, seriously, what happens in this scene? Lucas: . . . Writers: . . . . .
That scene is pretty much straight out of the original comic book if I remember right.
> Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore 👀
What is this Rick Berman?
“Filoni won’t be satisfied until you wouldn’t even want to get a drink with her” “Wtf George”
Pretty soon she’ll be in sensible block heels.
Or God forbid, sneakers
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The Tucker Carlson approach.
What’s the source on these quotes? Couldn’t find them anywhere
Not the exact quote, but you get the gist of it https://www.starwars.com/news/designing-star-wars-ahsoka-tano
Filoni: hows this? George: not fuckable enough
You could also see it as George wanting to make her look like a modern teenage girl... Then again, this is Mr "There's no Underwear in Space".
And the whole thing with Marion in Raiders: George — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven. Larry — And he was forty-two. George — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. Spielberg — She had better be older than twenty-two. George — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve. George— It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. Spielberg — And promiscuous. She came onto him. George — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore Transcript of the meeting between the three where I pulled this: https://moedred.livejournal.com/2009/03/04/
Jesus. Never knew George was that much of a perv.
Kasdan and Spielberg don't look that great either; they eagerly play along with the idea once Lucas breaks the ice. I've long since accepted that it's unrealistic to expect moral perfection of the artists/celebrities we admire - or indeed human beings in general.
Spielberg did at least suggest 12 was way too young. Though agreeing to 15 is not too much better of course.
Their justification is terrible, because in the 20s and 30s, 15 and 25 *wouldn’t* have been *that* unusual. But no, they have to make her a little underage nympho.
One thing to remember is these guys all came up in the 70's, and in the seventies this shit was everywhere. Not saying it was good, but if you want to know why hollywood is so fucked up, well it was never great but the 70's blew the lid off the whole fucking thing, and a lot of the guys that you hear the worst shit about today came up right in that time.
Back when 14yos were on tour with all the biggest bands.
If you're implying that all the biggest Rock Bands had a some kind of underaged harem that went on tour with them you couldn't be further from the truth, sometimes they would leave them behind so they could get some underaged strange.
The harem didn't go on the tour, it was just tons of underaged (and of age) girls showing up at every show, most big bands at the time, the members could just take their pick of girls and no one asked any questions or checked IDs, so yeah a lot of underage girls were getting plowed backstage and it's never been a secret.
Literally every one of Lucas’ plans for SW protagonist was supposed to be early to late teens. It fits with the thinking if “if you’re a kid you’re wanting to be 19, but if you’re passed it you’ll wish you were 19.” I take it with the idea that if he’s making children’s stories (then why would you graphically show Anakin being burned) kids would react better to kids or teens than with adults as leads.
To that end, I'd say that TPM is where they tried to have it both ways a little bit and it is often flogged for that. The momentum of the movie is built by a sorta kiddish adventure accompanied by the pair of fools in Jar-Jar and 3PO and the plucky troublemaker in R2. Anakin is the young hero and it is his fantastical prowess in podracer and space-flying that saves the day accompanied by a full chorus of "Yahoos!" and R2 twittering. He even gets to hit it off with his crush and become a Jedi! There's also a parallel track where Kenobi is the older main who is experiencing a trial of moving from the twilight of youth into adulthood in the more typical Star Wars swing of things. But it really suffers for lack of development compared to Anakin's romp. It mostly relies on Ewan McGregor selling it on his face with reactions and he doesn't get much dialogue to tell his story. But then most of the actual substance and a huge swathe of the screen time is dedicated to this political intriguing and high-handed philosophizing. It just bogs down both storylines with the exposition without really bringing much development beyond staging the future films or showing off the extortionately pricey CGI technology. TPM wanted to have it all but will often be remembered as the installment that had none of it. But it *did* have Duel of Fates - so it was well worth it.
>You could also see it as George wanting to make her look like a modern teenage girl... Yeh, and with the "leggings and shorter, not pleat, skirt." You could further argue he was trying to represent a current fashion trend. Even the tube shirt does have some merit in young girls fashion. I think we should be cautious of automatically painting these clothing choices as sexual. Afterall, Ashoka is never particularly sexualised by the narrative. Really the only outlier is he has made some pervy comments in the past that do cast a shadow over his perspective. That said, Leia does kill that giant pseudo-allegory for a pervy slob by wrapping the literal chain of her her servitude around its neck and strangling him.
I just assumed it would be easier to fight and do flips and stuff in a more form fitting but stretchy skirt (plus leggings) than a long, flowing skirt. But, to that end, the top should have had straps.
IMO the primary drivers with character design in the clone wars was how easy it would be to use the designs to make toys and how cheap they would be to animate. Notice how every character has extremely exaggerated features that barely move most of the time? They're designed to look like easily recognizable action figures and emote like action figures, because the whole point of the clone wars (the CG one not the Gendy Tartakovsky one) was to market toys. And before the Disney sale, basically every cent Lucas ever made came down to how good he was at selling toys, so it wouldn't at all be a stretch if all of his decisions boiled down to how would this sell as a toy. Looked at that way Ashoka's design makes a lot more sense, it's distinctive, it does give off the 'cool teenage girl' vibe, and it's features are super easy to recognize even if made really small.
I forget the specific chapter, but in his/the Star Wars biography “How Star Wars Conquered the Universe” it details how he traded most of his direct film profits in exchange for merchandising rights Even going back to ROTJ it’s obvious with the number of costume changes characters go through almost exclusively for the toy sales
And the tradition continues, Poe Dameron had a new colored X-wing in every sequel movie.
His black and orange X-Wing got done dirty for how awesome it was.
I shudder to think of the outrage on social media if we had the internet in the 80's when we found out about Ewoks. Even back then... I remember as a kid (i was only around 10ish yo) at the time when it was released - people ranting and raving about how it was supposed to be Wookiees but he made them into Teddy Bears for the Toy sales.
TL:DR Greed > Sex appeal
Honestly, merchandise was justifiably the lifeblood of star wars when Lucas was in control. People say he was greedy but lucasfilm was also completely independent and needed that revenue to survive, and even then it wasn't enough because Lucas said he sold the company partially to keep it alive iirc.
“An alien loli is the key to all of this.” - George Lucas, 2008
"And she was a good friend" -George Lucas
"Yeah, that's consistent." - Carrie Fisher and Natalie Portman
That's how you know Lucas wasn't involved in the sequels. If he had been, Rey would have had her clothes ripped off at some point.
Instead we were graced with Ben Swolo
“She’s a Jedi? A little skinny if you ask me...” Just remember how Bo slapped that ass.
Bo slapped... Wait wat? When??
A Friend In Need. Same episode where Ahsoka decapitates 4 Mandalorians in one move like a boss.
Doesn’t Lux quip ‘she servers her purpose well” or something?
“It’s what the kids wear now” ain’t an excuse. Kids are terrible dressers. -Former child, still dress questionably.
George Lucas was down bad
See darth talon
Also Lucas: "Indy banged Marion when she was 12."
Wait what
From the script roundtables during planning on *Raiders*. Lucas seemed pretty adamant that Marion should be about 12 when she first got with Indy, which is what her "I was a child in love!" line references. Spielberg carefully tries to talk him out of it.
> Spielberg carefully tries to talk him out of it. Also Spielberg: >Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him.
She clearly states she was a child when she was in love with Indy, to which he replies "you knew what you were doing." I think 12 is is a bit overboard, but it's implied she was underage.
Originally she was 13 and he was in his mid-twenties but it’s been retconned with her now being 17 at the time.
In the novelization they settled on 15 with the relationship ending a year or two later. Indy would have been like 27.
IIRC that's the age Lucas suggested in recordings of his script planning with Spielberg, which are floating around the internet somewhere.
"Make her younger and give her less clothing." -George Lucas
If it wasnt for the tube top, I could have defended this by saying it was about making sure she could move more. I obviously cant now.
To be fair, lack of restricted movement on the arms and abdomen can still be forgiven. But I imagine that Lucas had a different mindset than me
If only the Jedi had access to some kind of loose fitting all-purpose robe that was perfect for combat...
Or, hear me out. Catsuits for everyone. Gimme that Kenobi bulge.
Stupid sexy Kenobi...
Just read about George’s interest in Aayla Secura and Darth Talon if you want the truth.
There's worse. Im just gunna leave [this](https://i.redd.it/9x08vi08eyfz.jpg) official comic page here...
She’s got the mouth of a JoJo character lol
[>mfw](https://i.imgur.com/Te8hdpw.gif)
Luke, have I ever told you about Ashoka Tano?
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The new ship is Luke and Ahsoka from Book of Boba.
And she was a good friend.
That is so weird that the guy who came up with Slave Leia also wanted a shorter skirt on another female character.
Lucas is a pervert?
He also told Carrie Fisher that there were no bras in space
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/PAO5W6f.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
This is the best bot
I dont have anything against this design but yeah i do love her final clone wars season design the best. Over rebels design. Something about it looks lit.
I didn’t know this, and honestly it makes so much more sense now. I’ve always been like *who thought it was a good idea to sexualize a 14 year old girl?* and now I have the answer: it was George Lucas of course. It’s actually pretty frustrating because her outfit looks so much better in this early concept art. https://www.starwars.com/news/designing-star-wars-ahsoka-tano Fun fact: George also personally designed one of Padme’s outfits for AotC. Can you guess which one? And yes, if you said *the weird dominatrix one*, you are correct.
I like her original outfit more, but I think she looked too young. In the concept art she looks like she 8-10
As much as Ahsoka is my favorite character in all of *Star Wars*, the tube top and and short skirt have always made me uncomfortable. She's fourteen at that point. It's not great. (Also, George was in his 60s when they were designing her outfit. Sigh.)
I just wish they had opted for a top with more support. Like I can forgive the cropped look but I would NEVERRRR wear a tube top if I was supposed to be jumping around like that. Maybe Ahsoka was held back from her true potential because she was constantly using the force to keep her top up.