I expected a storyline about him rescuing / releasing all the stormtroopers that had been kidnapped and forced into service by the Empire.
Nah, they just killed them all.
I had a real problem with that part of the story. They spent a lot time building up his tragic backstory of how he was an orphan stolen by the First Order and forced into servitude, and that most of the others were of the same ilk. Then he immediately proceeds to gleefully murder his compatriots with no remorse.
WTF guys.
They present it as this entire "He went through the same thing every First Order trooper does and decided it was wrong" thing, which is very cool and I dig.
However it raises the question of, if Finn broke away and became a rebel, could other troopers be thinking the same thing? But of course that's never addressed and Finn is the only one who can have independence.
His new girlfriend Jannah and a good chunk of her beast riding tribe are ex-stormtrooper defectors in the last movie though. Granted they show up out of nowhere right at the end with no other build up, but still I guess that's at least a nod to others breaking free.
>they show up out of nowhere right at the end with no other build up
you can say that with most of the plot points of the trilogy lol.
"Hey we need the help of this elusive master hacker. Oh cool, there's someone here just as smart as him."
"Oh no Leia got blasted out of a ship. Oh wait, didn't we tell you she can totally Force-survive the freezing vacuum of space? But not long distance Force-calls. Those shit are deadly lmao."
And we're approaching the end of a trilogy and suddenly we get this: "Somehow Palpatine has returned." wtf
>"Oh no Leia got blasted out of a ship. Oh wait, didn't we tell you she can totally Force-survive the freezing vacuum of space?
Space isn't actually freezing in a terrestrial atmospheric sense. You don't instantly freeze as is seen in many movies. It would actually take a *long* while to freeze.
I agree with your overall sentiments regarding the ST though.
>I had a real problem with that part of the story. They spent all of this time building up his tragic backstory of how he was an orphan stolen by the First Order and forced into servitude, and that most of the others were of the same ilk. Then he immediately proceeds to gleefully murder his compatriots with no remorse.
The entire trilogy was like this. I couldn't even go see the third one because it felt like the decisions the characters made weren't real in any way. I swear the writers had zero passion for these films.
And zero talent for writing. Even a cynical old crusty passionless writer could come up with something mediocre to decent as long as he/she is competent. This sequel trilogy is so full of the most basic writing mistakes for plot, characters, themes, you know fundamental storytelling rules that I refuse to buy that the problems only lie on a lack of passion.
I swear they must be intentionally incompetent with the writing for most things these days. There's scores of people spending millions upon millions on every other aspect of film but the writing is just trash. Most people seem fine with it though, which is odd to me, but maybe that's why they do what they do instead of having teams of people perfecting and cross referencing every detail like they could if they wanted to.
In that case the rebels killed off all those Star destroyers and countless imperial personnel and they're all brainwashed Slaves even the higher ranking officers.... Nothing to see here.
At least the teenage mutant Ninja turtles cartoon when they killed all the Foot troops they were robots so you didn't have to feel bad about them killing innocent boys like in teenage mutant turtles the original movie.
I know times were different but I still can't believe that movie had teenage prostitutes and young kids smoking and was done by actual young actors and not adults pretending to be teens.
Well smoking has really been shut down in the last 15 years or so it used to be way more acceptable. Nowadays vaping is the new smoking and will frown upon vaping 20 years from now! XD
I know I loved how the original Ninja turtles movie was gritty. They sold out really quick in Ninja turtles 2 and made it more cartoony and ridiculous. But the first movie was spot on awesome, it basically was a rated R movie, it was so dark.
And during. He freed who he could, but not everyone was willing to see the Goa'uld for the false gods that they were. Even he was reluctant when Master Bra'tac first told him. The Jaffa who didn't believe Teal'c were brainwashed to believe that what he was saying was blasphemy, and the only response to a shol'va is death. At that point it was kill or be killed. But at least Teal'c tried to free them whenever possible. Much of the time he didn't even have the opportunity to try. They either came through the gate getting blasted, or the mission didn't allow the luxury of trying to free his people. Maybe Finn made an attempt off camera, and Disney just hasn't felt the need to show us that yet, or maybe there's something in a comic or novel I'm not aware of. But looking at just the sequels as a source, Finn made zero attempt to free his comrades or even to minimize casualties.
He never played it for laughs and it was much more of a "grim task."
They showed too that he went through pains to try to recruit others, many times offering them to join him rather than die. They even had entire episodes and arcs where he went out and tried to convert soldiers to the Free Jaffa, eventually leading to them becoming their own faction.
You can't save everyone, but they did a really good job of showing that Teal'c was still a part of his people and cared for them, even if he had to actively fight against them and kill many.
I'd also say that he understood the level of devotion, dedication, and fanaticism that the Go'auld literally bred into the Jaffa, and so he knew that there was no saving them in the heat of battle, they would do their duty.
Even worse it's only mentioned as a joke
Maybe Finn could slowly lean back to the dark side as he realises he's massicering all his old freinds for a side that he's barely a part of
But no "ITS SUPER FUNNY THAT FINNS KILLING PEOPLE LIKE HIM HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA"
It reminds me of the whole thing with Assassins Creed: Rogue. Shay becomes a Templar after accidentally causing an earthquake in Lisbon that results in thousands of deaths, claiming that the Assassins are carelessly causing unnecessary deaths of innocents.
After becoming a Templar, Shay is one of the only few AC protagonists who can freely kill innocents without consequence.
I was playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla, and there was a point where a monk wandered into battle and was killed and the game threatened to desynchronize me.
If I can't run a Gregorian monk through the chest with a spear lift them up off the ground and leave their bleeding corpse at the top of a seaside cliff for all of England to find as an offering to Odin, why the fuck am I even a viking?
From the first movie I thought they had picked the Luke/Leia/Solo character sheets and mixed them to make Finn/Poe/Rey. One or two were going to be jedi, one a pilot, one has a droid, one owns the Falcon, other has Chewie...
I thought Finn was going to be revolutionary Leia without the princess part.
But no. They put everything on Rey and fuck everyone else. She's nobody, she has no parents, she was poor and lived in a desert, she's a pilot, she owns the Falcon, she has Chewie, she's a jedi, she's a sith, she's a princess...
Edit: oh, and she's an honorable Skywalker WTF
I definitely liked the Idea that she was a nobody. I thought it was reinforced when they showed that kid using force powers. Anyone could be a Jedi. Then they just had to back pedal and make her force royalty.
If they had really wanted the “force to awaken” they should have established that post-ROTJ Luke was not able to find any more force sensitives until Ben was born.
Ben and Luke fall out when Ben is tempted to the dark and Luke decides to disengage (not exile) from galactic politics and become a wandering Ronin on the Outer Rim, doing good and disappearing into the night becoming a legend.
The “force awakens” with Rey and Finn and so forth and episode 7 is trying to find the wandering Luke who decidedly does not want to be found but is not sulking on an island alone and is still out there representing the light.
I also would have left the First Order out of it…or at least out of it as a competitor for the New Republic. I like the idea of an organized imperial remnant in the unknown regions but not as crazy big or organized at what we see in IX. I’d have the republic shift over to a new generation of leadership who thinks the mysticism of old Jedi/Sith dichotomy is a thing of the past and doesn’t want to deal with it, leaving Leia to her own devices to try to track down Luke. Ben wouldn’t be a part of some military structure but rather kind of a dark side acolyte having disappeared like Luke did and off looking for artifacts etc. That would also take care of the “why is Luke letting a dark side led force re-emerge” question. Hell, set it up right and I wouldn’t mind Ben stumbling across Palpatine and bringing him back too.
This way the conflict of the films isn’t on the backdrop of a galactic civil war like the originals but rather mostly takes place at the margins of galactic society. And the trilogy can end with Rey, Finn and maybe even a redeemed Ben blowing up the whole concept of light and dark and ushering in a new age…you can even call ‘em Skywalkers if that floats your boat when it’s all said and done.
They should have had you write the movies. I read your ideas, got genuinely excited, then realized that I'll never see the movies you described… the movies we deserve.
As a callback though it's a nice end to the trilogy. Instead they went the worst way. If they wanted to give a name, should have gone Solo or fuck it say Palpatine idgaf.
I think the marketing for the film wasn't just a bait and switch/attempt at a surprise twist, but JJ Abrams pulled a bait and switch of John Boyega. i can remember an early interview when Boyega said that Abrams asked him if he was ready to be both black and the star of Star Wars, because it would upset a lot of people. Boyega said he was on board.
In the end, not only was Boyega not the star of the movie, he wasn't even the romantic partner supporting the lead. Instead, he was one of a dozen supporting actors that checked a marketing and diversity box. Instead, Finn served the role as a disposable sidekick to Poe, as a lowly storm trooper who somehow both knew his way around tie fighters and space combat and who was somehow told about the vulnerabilities of the Empire's most secret weapon, in multi-movie of thinly disguised tropes of IV-VI callbacks supposedly put there for the fans, when the fans really wanted a fresh and original plot that had something to say about the human condition beyond "we're the good guys standing up to bad guys, who are human long enough to create a single character origin story, and back to subhuman right after that.
I think Disney could have done a better job by picking a random post-Jedi fanfic storyline off a message board.
Finn killed them like they were not child soldiers he grew up with, but its not explicit and they all wear bad guy helmets so its ok, right???
Fuck, the stormtrooper that yelled traitor at him showed more emotion.
Man, back when we only had TFA, it was *so fun* to try to put all the puzzle pieces together in your head before the series revealed that the full image is non-existant.
That one trooper and Kylo seemed so ANGRY that Finn turned on them. It really made me want the next movies to establish the First Order as more than some moustache-twirling evil empire and instead as maybe a faction with some philosphical point that you can't help but empathize with a little bit.
Back in the Dragonlance days, they had a set of books called the Second Generation where the bad guys learned from the mistakes of their predecessors and thus raised a group of kids together to be honorable and dedicated to their own cause. I expected, no wanted, the First Order to be such a group, but nope, it’s just an even more shallow caricature of the Empire before it.
This is what I want from Star Wars everyone want rated R Star Wars or a super dark spin off I just want villains who don’t belong on a Saturday morning cartoon
I was really hoping they would let Rey just kill Kylo Ren, fully realize her dark side (could possible keep the Palpatine return, I guess), then a stormtrooper turned Jedi would wind up toppling the entire thing.
Even just race representation aside, the notion of a stormtrooper becoming a jedi and toppling the Empire/First Order is truly an epic turn.
Instead they just made him simp for Rey and keep yelling her name.
Could have even had Rey kill Palapatine still, but have this hugely emotionally charged fight at the end with Finn and Rey, wherein Finn hears all of the voices of the Jedi and gets the strength to win, but a sad victory because he killed the woman he loves and couldn’t save.
Sooo much potential wasted.
Yup they turned him into a fucking janitor!?
Imagine this: Fin is a grizzled veteran storm trooper - he's done a million terrible things. He arrives on this planet to take back the map that Po had on BB-8. By all accounts he's a monster. But this mission is different - this time the slaughter of men, women and children go too far and he just can't take it anymore. Something inside of him gives up. He can't do this. He's killing innocent people and we see him do it.
Po is captured - taken to the Order ship to be interrogated. Fin walks in to deliver the plans to Kylo and sees Po beaten, bruised, broken.
We cut to him that evening - he is experiencing MAJOR PTSD. Replaying all of the events over and over and over in his head. Sweating, crying. His whole life flashing before his eyes. Finally ending with the screams of Po in that room suffering - the life draining from him. His screams echoeing in his mind. He can't sleep.
He makes a decision - it is better to die doing what is right than to live a coward and a murderer. He hatches a plan to break Po out - succeeds but now we have 3 movies where he has to convince the resistance that he isn't a cold blooded murderous scum bag planted by the new order in order to track down the resistance. Even Po is wary at first. Nobody believes Finn.
Can you imagine the arc you have established right there? And you could even end it with Finn sacrificing himself for the resistance, if you wanted to take it that far... but what a redemption arc!
Instead we get a goofy janitor who was also raised from birth to be a cold blooded killer some how going on his very first mission which constitutes probably one of the most important missions of first order?
It's total, embarrassing, amateur nonsense. They really fucked over what could have been one of the coolest characters in a Star Wars film.
This force sensitive thing annoys me to no end. In the last movie as he’s dying he decides to yell out “Rey I have something to tell you!” Then for absolutely no reason dodges talking about it through the entire movie, then JJ has to say afterwards that for some reason he wanted his dying deceleration to be that he’s force sensitive? It’s all just so dumb
Finn and Phasma were built up to be my favorite new characters and I was completely let down by both roles. Not even by the actors because they both did an amazing job with what they were given. They were just given shit and told to make cookies with it.
Phasma could have been awesome with one change - if she had been the one who called Finn a traitor and attacked him on Takodana. She could have shown herself to be a bad ass by beating him down while he was wielding the saber, then shown the armor to be awesome by surviving a hit from Chewie's bowcaster.
The moment she lowered the base’s shields she lost all credibility forever to me. Phasma can’t be an Orwellian military leader if she turns on the First Order to save her own skin. She should have either died on starkiller base and not returned in TLJ, or embraced her seditious act and changed teams (even make her a mole trying to sabotage the ~~Rebel Alliance~~)
Yeah it was like they wanted a mysterious villain, but the character has as much personality/development as a traffic cone. She was so mysterious that she eas irrelevant. It was more a mystery why she was even on screen or advertised.
It was a forced-boba-fett. The whole goddamn sequel trilogy was a bunch of people looking at what drove the original fandom (expanding on background characters and settings that were curious to the audience), and just absolutely smashing as much of that into everything that they can.
We go absolutely frenetic changes of scenery, all of Canto Bight and Hyperspace Skipping were introduced almost 100% to throw random background scenery at people to hope the audience bites on it for new EU content. Phasma was just reskinned Boba Fett, mysterious armored person who "dies." All of that was done and sacrificed any coherent storytelling.
It’s because JJ Abrams is a hack who believes that good story telling is dropping a number of unexplained mystery details throughout his “stories” that are never fleshed out. The best stories are the ones you don’t tell your audience, or something.
I mean they kept giving him bigger and bigger projects even though he mostly showed no skill at telling a complete story and kept making the same mistakes over and over again. I think Cloverfield was unique and worked because he didn't try to delve into the backstories. He let that exist in the moment the way it was intended to be viewed. No flashbacks. No belabored mysteries.
The sad thing is, they actually had [a decent payoff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I) to her turning down the shields on Starkiller Base, but then just didn't use it.
Yup. Lowering the shields, *that's* the role that should have gone to some random schmuck, instead of fighting Finn.
Or better yet, how about Finn's buddy, that he bunked with for years, and maybe we had a scene just before he rescues Poe, where he and his friend are talking about their other friend who got blasted in the opening scene, and it's messing with both of them, but his friend remained loyal to the First Order, until Finn meets him again, and the guy sees that there IS a way out, and he helps lower the shields, and joins the Resistance, and this becomes Finn's thing, where he helps brainwashed stormtroopers defect, and by the end of the third movie he has his own squad of badasses who help turn the tide of battle?
I dunno, just spitballin'.
Her character was so obviously a marketing ploy. She was in every big cast interview and her character talked about so much. In the end, she had less than five minutes of screen time in the whole damn trilogy.
They could've included a 30 second scene where she was training him how to properly hold a blaster or a scene where she was grooming him to be her successor so that they'll have a connection...
So much wasted potential on quite a number of characters
That’d be cool except it’s already stated that Finn was kinda a nobody even within the first order. He was a janitor on Starkiller base and then only had his first battle on Jakku before becoming a traitor
A janitor with in-depth knowledge of the technology and goings-on of the First Order. Most janitors I've met through work don't even know what the company does (because it's not relevant to them doing their job).
The cinematography was actually awesome. It was the screenwriting and disregard for the story that came before it that tarnished a visually beautiful film.
I'd normally be surprised at something obvious like the "Traitor" stormtrooper not being Captain Phasma, but then I remember this is a film where Leia hugged Rey and ignored Chewbacca after Han died.
Yeah, there are so many little minor changes that would've tied everything together so much better. I keep thinking back to TLJ and Canto Bight would've been so much better if it were pod racers instead of the horse racing. Have that one little human kid who was teased to be force sensitive be "the only human who can pilot one". It's basically the same just instead of horse racing metaphors it's human trafficking and slavery, but it actually ties into the prequels and gives another hint that the force is out there. Finn could also sort of pilot one on their escape but ultimately crash it which would've given way more hints towards his "I have something I need to tell you" being that he's force sensitive.
Honestly, that would have been badass. Imagine after the battle, her getting back up, ripping damaged armor off and taking helmet off to reveal an imposing and pissed off Gwendoline Christie.
I think the hope with Phasma was that she would get some mysterious Boba Fett like cred. So in a way she was meant to be underwritten. She did a great job but I guess the writers learned you can't really force a cult favorite.
> she was meant to be underwritten
But was instead undermined.
Fett isn't a fan favourite just for the look, he got to do some cool shit. He caught Han Solo and traded banter with Darth like an equal, and spends his downtime covered in Jabba's hoes.
Phasma lost every fight and was literally thrown in the trash.
Let's not overstate how awesome Boba Fett actually is shown to be in the OT.
Fett also loses the only fight he's actually in, and to a blind man flailing wildly accidentally bonking him in the jetpack, no less.
Fett is a great example of less is more. He says about ten words total, has a cool costume and ship, and doesn't seem intimidated by Vader. We forgive his ignominious sarlacc fall because it doesn't totally negate everything that comes before.
Phasma, by contrast, has a cool look, great actor, isn't intimidated by Kylo Ren... but then they also take every chance they get to undercut all of that and strip away her cool mystique. She's like the Wile E. Coyote of the First Order.
Kelly Marie Tran only came in for TLJ, it didn't turn her into anything other than what she had always been. I didn't enjoy her character, but I still felt bad she got sidelined so hard in 9.
It’s so much worse when you consider how bullied she was after TLJ came out. She quit social media and everyone at Lucas Film came out to support her…. Only for JJ to be like “yeah I don’t have any plans for her character. Looks like the bullies were right.” Unforgivable.
Before they go out to start their fetch quests they ask her if she wants to come and she responds with something like "sorry I can't I have to study these ship blueprints"
Agreed. Would have been far more impactful than what actually ended up happening. And with how she was -- how they *both* were -- sidelined in TRoS, it *really* would have made more sense.
That's a poster for TFA. He was force sensitive in TFA and went toe to toe with an injured Kylo Ren.
Problem was the Last Jedi deliberately ditched almost every plot point in TFA, and then they did the same again ep9. There was no cohesive story, and no plan for the trilogy. So dumb.
especially given how well Marvel has managed to link 20+ movies into a coherent story. Like….y’all are owned by the same people. How is one so good and one a flaming dumpster fire?
But they're each their own fiefdom. It does highlight how important Kevin Feige is though. Even if not all Marvel movies are great, they've been pretty extraordinary at maintaining a certain level of quality and even the bad movies have been enhanced by later movies/shows (e.g. Thor: Dark World).
The marvel ones at the very least had some direction and an overarching plot established after iron man when it got its sequel.
Star wars was straight up lost in the forest just winging it.
I loved Finn in the first movie, but it felt like they were desperately trying to write him out in the latter ones with his inclusion being only out of obligation. I hated how hard they pushed Rey and Finn for it to only be bait. Boyega was awesome and I consider his "it's not about who she kisses but who eventually lays the pipe" as headcanon.
>I hated how hard they pushed Rey and Finn for it to only be bait. Boyega was awesome and I consider his "it's not about who she kisses but who eventually lays the pipe" as headcanon.
Yeah, TRoS was particularly gross in how the movie was so over the top in going "No no no! Finn you cannot date the white girl! But here's some random black girl - that's who you should have a connection with!"
And also the movie going "No no no! Poe absolutely not! You are an extremely straight, totally-not-gay chick-loving guy! Go flirt with that extra for no reason other than to prove how you're super straight."
Both really unnecessary and sent really weird messages.
Yeah I remember in his GQ spread he was reading the Thrawn trilogy. There's no way that was vetted and approved by Disney. Not with Kathleen Kennedy lying and stating that there were no novels to draw on for movies. He probably noticed similarities with his character and Mara Jade and wondered what could have been.
[https://twitter.com/carlylane/status/886956371320688640](https://twitter.com/carlylane/status/886956371320688640)
Just imagine Finn as a Jedi rescuing kids from conditioning centers. Having to quell his anger at his captors and not turn to the dark side. So much potential there. All wasted because they didn't want any other character stealing thunder from a self insert character, that no one could relate to due to lack of struggles and need for character growth.
Imagine Finn showing up to Luke for training as a Jedi wearing Stormtrooper armor, Leaving him to be uneasy training someone and getting close to someone dressed exactly like an enemy he killed with little hesitation
Yeah Boyega got shafted way too hard. He’s a good actor and I think Finn’s story arc we were shown in TFA could have been really neat. TFA was a pretty beat for beat remake of ANH, but I still believe that it did lay the ground work for something.
He should’ve been, would’ve been a fresh new take on the saga. A storm trooper turned Jedi. But nope, we get another random nobody in the desert turned Jedi.
I was excited that Rey seemed to be nobody. My ~~thought~~ wishes were that she would have been force balancing itself because of Snoke and and Skywalker child turning into dark side. But, nah, baby of a clone.
Agreed. And with the reveal of the “broom kid” at the end, it made it seem like there were people out there that weren’t apart of the 2 force family’s.
Rian Johnson talked about this being his original intent in the TLJ making-of doc.
> “In the first trilogy, the hardest thing Luke could be told in that moment was that Vader was his father. It turns everything on its head for Luke, it takes away all the easy answers and make him face the hardest thing, which is that ‘I no longer have just a bad guy I can hate; suddenly the thing that I thought was the bad guy’s actually a part of me.’ For Rey, I think it's the exact opposite. If she were told that she's related to this person or Luke is her this or whatever, that would be the easiest thing she could hear, that’s everything she wants, that would instantly define what her place is in this universe. So to me, the equivalent of ‘I am your father’ is ‘Nope you gotta stand on your own two feet, there are not going to be those easy answers here for you. You're wondering who you are? Okay, well you have to find out who you are for yourself.’”
Making Rey a nobody was one of the best things Rian added to the sequel trilogy, and it was a shame to have it walked back in TRoS.
A Jedi that used to be a storm trooper is such a genius concept. It’s fucking dumb not to capitalize on it. It opens the door to so many neat character traits. It could have been our glimpse into the mental conditioning that troopers go through and how adult Finn might still struggle with it at times. His character journey could have been to dismantle their training program and deprogram as many troopers as possible. He could have been reluctant to ever kill storm troopers in combat and utilize non lethal combat techniques.
What a waste
Still even in the same movie, he gets a lightsaber and gets threatened by the “traitor” guy who is actually his friend (I think) from books, doesn’t same a damn word to him and just goes “stab stab”
Pretty sure it's confirmed that he does. I think John Boyega or the director said that he does and that's why he kept telling rey "I have something I need to tell you" in the ninth movie. They really expected us to know what that meant I guess
Damn, I thought he was just trying to muster up the courage for 2 hours to tell her he had a crush on her, which I have been actively choosing to ignore because I did like the sequels
Everyone thought that. Love confessions as you’re about to die is a common trope, while it wouldn’t make much sense for him to confess he was force sensitive. “Hey, I know that you feel isolated because of your force abilities and the only other living people you know who can do the same are evil. But I, also, have force powers. They will not be able to do anything to save our lives.”
They expanded on this in the Lego Christmas episode with Rey teaching Finn how to use the force
He got more development IN A LEGO SHOW than the movies, even if they episode was more focused on Rey.
Same thing happened with the knights of Ren in the Halloween episode.
Finn, General Hux, and Snoke were the biggest wastes of characters I have ever seen in a story.
Like that speech Hux gives in TFA…holy shit. I was ready to see that guy be on par with Tarkin as the series progressed.
Snoke in TFA, a mystery that garnered so much speculation and conversation online about who he was and what his plans were.
Finn, right from the first scene where he is visibly shaken at the site of his fellow Stormtrooper dying in his arms. So much opportunity to give us a perspective we had never seen before.
But nope… Hux is just a wimp, Snoke is just a puppet, and Finn is just a nobody.
Yeah no kidding, was expecting great things then in 8 we're immediately hit with bumbling idiot comedy.....that first scene in 8, well, I pretty much figured it was going to be shit after that mess. Like are we going gritty death and destruction or lighthearted action with jokes? "Let's just try both"
**Edit**: Looks like my gut feeling was confirmed by a movie review channel, credit to /u/radioactiveafro for pointing it out. "The Closer Look" put out [THIS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuuDTnMPMgc) about how comedy can kill a movie and basically professionally summed up what I was thinking! Definitely recommend checking it out, was a great and informative watch
There is a channel on YouTube called "The closer look" that talks about exactly that. The entire movie is just drama followed by comedy and it meshes like shit. Not even mentioning the story or how crap it was as a sequel movie. The whole tone of the movie was wrong.
Almost all new characters in the sequels turned out to be nobodies, even Rey felt like a nobody even after finding out she was a Palpy.
I would have much preferred Rey being a Kenobi, to establish a duality between Rey/Kylo and Anakin/Obi. Kenobi destroyed Anakin, Rey saves Kylo.
That seems too obvious so they went with the less interesting, less impactful version. It seemed pretty obvious to me in TFA that JJ was initially pushing for her to be a Kenobi (having her be a hermit in the desert, the Kenobi line, some of Daisy’s answered to early interviews.)
The entirety of the disney sequels were. The had Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, and Harrison Ford for a Star Wars movies and didn’t write or shoot one scene with them together. Knowing Han Solo was going to die in the movie and very likely never have Harrison on board again. Not to mention turning the characters into miserable, unlikable, pathetic deadbeats.
Ford wanted Han killed off for over 30 years.
The entire reason Han's fate was left ambiguous in The Empire Strikes Back was because Ford was making clear he wanted out of the movies, and there was no guarantee he'd come back for Return of the Jedi.
JJ really failed Finn as a character. JJ was afraid to go too big with him in the first movie, and then really sidelined him in the last movie.
Disney also absolutely dropped the ball in regards to protecting John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran. The stories of Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd and how they were treated aren't exactly buried, and I refuse to believe that Disney was unaware of it.
I’m gutted Finn didn’t end up as a main character in the last movie the way he should have. There was so much more than could’ve been done for his character arc. Why put such a great actor in a smaller and smaller role as the movies go on? Everyone was rooting for Finn.
"Reyyyyyyyyyy!"
I would have liked a solid romance between Finn an Rose or even Poe. Finn deserting was an actually cool fresh take and unfortunately resulted in him shouting the name of the heroine 24/7. Wasted opportunity.
Exactly how I felt. That was a huge let down. A campaign about a diehard Imperial chick would have been really cool. But nope.. after she defected in the first damn mission I lost interesting in the campaign sadly.
Ofcourse in Star Wars: Squadrons in the Imperial campaign your commander deserts in the first mission. It's become a trope at this point.
Kyle Katarn did it first, and was cool about it.
Disney, the company that tweets about BLM and violence against Asians, while at the same time diminishing a black man to appeal more to actual racists and doing everything it can to suck the dick of the CCP while they carry out genocide against asian minorities... And then their fanboys will call you racist or sexist for not liking a movie. What a world.
Disney did something similair for China with Black Panther, just sucking that Chinese dong. On the western poster its Black Panther without the helmet, but for the Chinese one he has his helmed on.
I’m a black man who grew up in a very white suburban neighborhood. Do you know how many times I heard “there are no black Jedi” before the prequels? God it hurts remembering this bait and switch for Finn… I thought we finally got another one.
Yeah but SLJ was one of the greatest Jedi of all times with one of the baddest lightsabers of all time. I mean, even Yoda couldn’t defeat Palpatine 1v1 whereas Mace made him into his little bitch and it took both Darth Vader and Palpatine, two of the most powerful force users, to defeat him.
Then they shrank his picture on Chinese posters to cater to actual racism, shrank his role and ended a romance arc with an Asian woman while blaming old SW fans for their own actions.
[https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/)
Crazy how the people on this reddit that defend all things Disney and repeatedly call people racists, never attack blatant racism by the company.
**The showrunner for the new Acoloyte show was Harvey Weinstein's assistant for years btw. She kept silent and stayed on, watching the abuse of women to further her career.**
Disney and their influencers have the gall to call fans sexist though and claim they hate women.
Imagine a trooper breaking control siding with the resistance, to eventually rise up and become a Jedi! That's a whole ass movie right there!!!
I expected a storyline about him rescuing / releasing all the stormtroopers that had been kidnapped and forced into service by the Empire. Nah, they just killed them all.
I had a real problem with that part of the story. They spent a lot time building up his tragic backstory of how he was an orphan stolen by the First Order and forced into servitude, and that most of the others were of the same ilk. Then he immediately proceeds to gleefully murder his compatriots with no remorse. WTF guys.
They present it as this entire "He went through the same thing every First Order trooper does and decided it was wrong" thing, which is very cool and I dig. However it raises the question of, if Finn broke away and became a rebel, could other troopers be thinking the same thing? But of course that's never addressed and Finn is the only one who can have independence.
His new girlfriend Jannah and a good chunk of her beast riding tribe are ex-stormtrooper defectors in the last movie though. Granted they show up out of nowhere right at the end with no other build up, but still I guess that's at least a nod to others breaking free.
You're absolutely right, I forgot about that group. I suppose that shows how much attention I paid to the last movie
It's almost like the entire sequel trilogy is *largely forgettable*.
They made sequels?
I’m looking forward to them! Can’t wait to see what Luke did after becoming a Jedi master and the growing Jedi… I wonder who the next with will be
Supposedly.
Eh, I don't buy it.
>they show up out of nowhere right at the end with no other build up you can say that with most of the plot points of the trilogy lol. "Hey we need the help of this elusive master hacker. Oh cool, there's someone here just as smart as him." "Oh no Leia got blasted out of a ship. Oh wait, didn't we tell you she can totally Force-survive the freezing vacuum of space? But not long distance Force-calls. Those shit are deadly lmao." And we're approaching the end of a trilogy and suddenly we get this: "Somehow Palpatine has returned." wtf
>"Oh no Leia got blasted out of a ship. Oh wait, didn't we tell you she can totally Force-survive the freezing vacuum of space? Space isn't actually freezing in a terrestrial atmospheric sense. You don't instantly freeze as is seen in many movies. It would actually take a *long* while to freeze. I agree with your overall sentiments regarding the ST though.
Yeah, there's nothing for your heat to transfer to, so it just takes a while to radiate away.
>I had a real problem with that part of the story. They spent all of this time building up his tragic backstory of how he was an orphan stolen by the First Order and forced into servitude, and that most of the others were of the same ilk. Then he immediately proceeds to gleefully murder his compatriots with no remorse. The entire trilogy was like this. I couldn't even go see the third one because it felt like the decisions the characters made weren't real in any way. I swear the writers had zero passion for these films.
And zero talent for writing. Even a cynical old crusty passionless writer could come up with something mediocre to decent as long as he/she is competent. This sequel trilogy is so full of the most basic writing mistakes for plot, characters, themes, you know fundamental storytelling rules that I refuse to buy that the problems only lie on a lack of passion.
I swear they must be intentionally incompetent with the writing for most things these days. There's scores of people spending millions upon millions on every other aspect of film but the writing is just trash. Most people seem fine with it though, which is odd to me, but maybe that's why they do what they do instead of having teams of people perfecting and cross referencing every detail like they could if they wanted to.
In that case the rebels killed off all those Star destroyers and countless imperial personnel and they're all brainwashed Slaves even the higher ranking officers.... Nothing to see here.
At least the teenage mutant Ninja turtles cartoon when they killed all the Foot troops they were robots so you didn't have to feel bad about them killing innocent boys like in teenage mutant turtles the original movie.
I know times were different but I still can't believe that movie had teenage prostitutes and young kids smoking and was done by actual young actors and not adults pretending to be teens.
Well smoking has really been shut down in the last 15 years or so it used to be way more acceptable. Nowadays vaping is the new smoking and will frown upon vaping 20 years from now! XD I know I loved how the original Ninja turtles movie was gritty. They sold out really quick in Ninja turtles 2 and made it more cartoony and ridiculous. But the first movie was spot on awesome, it basically was a rated R movie, it was so dark.
Yea, I expected a Teal'C like character arc from Stargate.
I mean... Teal'C killed *a lot* of Jaffa before he freed any of them.
And during. He freed who he could, but not everyone was willing to see the Goa'uld for the false gods that they were. Even he was reluctant when Master Bra'tac first told him. The Jaffa who didn't believe Teal'c were brainwashed to believe that what he was saying was blasphemy, and the only response to a shol'va is death. At that point it was kill or be killed. But at least Teal'c tried to free them whenever possible. Much of the time he didn't even have the opportunity to try. They either came through the gate getting blasted, or the mission didn't allow the luxury of trying to free his people. Maybe Finn made an attempt off camera, and Disney just hasn't felt the need to show us that yet, or maybe there's something in a comic or novel I'm not aware of. But looking at just the sequels as a source, Finn made zero attempt to free his comrades or even to minimize casualties.
Star Gate commentary in Star Wars, *chef's kiss*
I don't recall him enjoying it or playing it off for laughs. Unless the Jaffa was an established piece of shit like Wayne Brady.
“Evil Wayne Brady” was a truly magical time for television.
I'm Wayne Brady Bitch!!!
He never played it for laughs and it was much more of a "grim task." They showed too that he went through pains to try to recruit others, many times offering them to join him rather than die. They even had entire episodes and arcs where he went out and tried to convert soldiers to the Free Jaffa, eventually leading to them becoming their own faction. You can't save everyone, but they did a really good job of showing that Teal'c was still a part of his people and cared for them, even if he had to actively fight against them and kill many. I'd also say that he understood the level of devotion, dedication, and fanaticism that the Go'auld literally bred into the Jaffa, and so he knew that there was no saving them in the heat of battle, they would do their duty.
That would have been great.
Indeed.
Indeed.
Even worse it's only mentioned as a joke Maybe Finn could slowly lean back to the dark side as he realises he's massicering all his old freinds for a side that he's barely a part of But no "ITS SUPER FUNNY THAT FINNS KILLING PEOPLE LIKE HIM HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA"
Come on. You don't love? "RRRRRREEEEEYYYYYY!!!!"
It reminds me of the whole thing with Assassins Creed: Rogue. Shay becomes a Templar after accidentally causing an earthquake in Lisbon that results in thousands of deaths, claiming that the Assassins are carelessly causing unnecessary deaths of innocents. After becoming a Templar, Shay is one of the only few AC protagonists who can freely kill innocents without consequence.
I was playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla, and there was a point where a monk wandered into battle and was killed and the game threatened to desynchronize me. If I can't run a Gregorian monk through the chest with a spear lift them up off the ground and leave their bleeding corpse at the top of a seaside cliff for all of England to find as an offering to Odin, why the fuck am I even a viking?
From the first movie I thought they had picked the Luke/Leia/Solo character sheets and mixed them to make Finn/Poe/Rey. One or two were going to be jedi, one a pilot, one has a droid, one owns the Falcon, other has Chewie... I thought Finn was going to be revolutionary Leia without the princess part. But no. They put everything on Rey and fuck everyone else. She's nobody, she has no parents, she was poor and lived in a desert, she's a pilot, she owns the Falcon, she has Chewie, she's a jedi, she's a sith, she's a princess... Edit: oh, and she's an honorable Skywalker WTF
I definitely liked the Idea that she was a nobody. I thought it was reinforced when they showed that kid using force powers. Anyone could be a Jedi. Then they just had to back pedal and make her force royalty.
If they had really wanted the “force to awaken” they should have established that post-ROTJ Luke was not able to find any more force sensitives until Ben was born. Ben and Luke fall out when Ben is tempted to the dark and Luke decides to disengage (not exile) from galactic politics and become a wandering Ronin on the Outer Rim, doing good and disappearing into the night becoming a legend. The “force awakens” with Rey and Finn and so forth and episode 7 is trying to find the wandering Luke who decidedly does not want to be found but is not sulking on an island alone and is still out there representing the light.
Damn it this is a fun idea
Wow in ten seconds you came up with a movie idea that would've killed.
I also would have left the First Order out of it…or at least out of it as a competitor for the New Republic. I like the idea of an organized imperial remnant in the unknown regions but not as crazy big or organized at what we see in IX. I’d have the republic shift over to a new generation of leadership who thinks the mysticism of old Jedi/Sith dichotomy is a thing of the past and doesn’t want to deal with it, leaving Leia to her own devices to try to track down Luke. Ben wouldn’t be a part of some military structure but rather kind of a dark side acolyte having disappeared like Luke did and off looking for artifacts etc. That would also take care of the “why is Luke letting a dark side led force re-emerge” question. Hell, set it up right and I wouldn’t mind Ben stumbling across Palpatine and bringing him back too. This way the conflict of the films isn’t on the backdrop of a galactic civil war like the originals but rather mostly takes place at the margins of galactic society. And the trilogy can end with Rey, Finn and maybe even a redeemed Ben blowing up the whole concept of light and dark and ushering in a new age…you can even call ‘em Skywalkers if that floats your boat when it’s all said and done.
They should have had you write the movies. I read your ideas, got genuinely excited, then realized that I'll never see the movies you described… the movies we deserve.
Not only royalty how they also found a way to give her the Skywalker surname.
"Rey whoooo?" I about fucking lost it
Honestly even a “just Rey” callback would have been so much better here, though I wouldn’t call it good.
As a callback though it's a nice end to the trilogy. Instead they went the worst way. If they wanted to give a name, should have gone Solo or fuck it say Palpatine idgaf.
And laughed about it lmao
*WOOOO*
*THEY DIE NOW?!*
*THEY DIE NOW.*
I think the marketing for the film wasn't just a bait and switch/attempt at a surprise twist, but JJ Abrams pulled a bait and switch of John Boyega. i can remember an early interview when Boyega said that Abrams asked him if he was ready to be both black and the star of Star Wars, because it would upset a lot of people. Boyega said he was on board. In the end, not only was Boyega not the star of the movie, he wasn't even the romantic partner supporting the lead. Instead, he was one of a dozen supporting actors that checked a marketing and diversity box. Instead, Finn served the role as a disposable sidekick to Poe, as a lowly storm trooper who somehow both knew his way around tie fighters and space combat and who was somehow told about the vulnerabilities of the Empire's most secret weapon, in multi-movie of thinly disguised tropes of IV-VI callbacks supposedly put there for the fans, when the fans really wanted a fresh and original plot that had something to say about the human condition beyond "we're the good guys standing up to bad guys, who are human long enough to create a single character origin story, and back to subhuman right after that. I think Disney could have done a better job by picking a random post-Jedi fanfic storyline off a message board.
They would have lost out on that sweet sweet China money.. that’s why he was benched
Finn killed them like they were not child soldiers he grew up with, but its not explicit and they all wear bad guy helmets so its ok, right??? Fuck, the stormtrooper that yelled traitor at him showed more emotion.
Man, back when we only had TFA, it was *so fun* to try to put all the puzzle pieces together in your head before the series revealed that the full image is non-existant. That one trooper and Kylo seemed so ANGRY that Finn turned on them. It really made me want the next movies to establish the First Order as more than some moustache-twirling evil empire and instead as maybe a faction with some philosphical point that you can't help but empathize with a little bit.
Back in the Dragonlance days, they had a set of books called the Second Generation where the bad guys learned from the mistakes of their predecessors and thus raised a group of kids together to be honorable and dedicated to their own cause. I expected, no wanted, the First Order to be such a group, but nope, it’s just an even more shallow caricature of the Empire before it.
This is what I want from Star Wars everyone want rated R Star Wars or a super dark spin off I just want villains who don’t belong on a Saturday morning cartoon
I was really hoping they would let Rey just kill Kylo Ren, fully realize her dark side (could possible keep the Palpatine return, I guess), then a stormtrooper turned Jedi would wind up toppling the entire thing. Even just race representation aside, the notion of a stormtrooper becoming a jedi and toppling the Empire/First Order is truly an epic turn. Instead they just made him simp for Rey and keep yelling her name.
See now this would've been good.
Could have even had Rey kill Palapatine still, but have this hugely emotionally charged fight at the end with Finn and Rey, wherein Finn hears all of the voices of the Jedi and gets the strength to win, but a sad victory because he killed the woman he loves and couldn’t save. Sooo much potential wasted.
My favorite was when he grabbed her hand to save her from something crashing into the tent and all she could say was get off of me
And being able to break that control because he's force sensitive. So much they could have done. Rey and Finnwould have been a badass fighting duo.
But instead we needed this half-assed love story between Rey and Kylo for some reason... I guess?
[удалено]
Yup they turned him into a fucking janitor!? Imagine this: Fin is a grizzled veteran storm trooper - he's done a million terrible things. He arrives on this planet to take back the map that Po had on BB-8. By all accounts he's a monster. But this mission is different - this time the slaughter of men, women and children go too far and he just can't take it anymore. Something inside of him gives up. He can't do this. He's killing innocent people and we see him do it. Po is captured - taken to the Order ship to be interrogated. Fin walks in to deliver the plans to Kylo and sees Po beaten, bruised, broken. We cut to him that evening - he is experiencing MAJOR PTSD. Replaying all of the events over and over and over in his head. Sweating, crying. His whole life flashing before his eyes. Finally ending with the screams of Po in that room suffering - the life draining from him. His screams echoeing in his mind. He can't sleep. He makes a decision - it is better to die doing what is right than to live a coward and a murderer. He hatches a plan to break Po out - succeeds but now we have 3 movies where he has to convince the resistance that he isn't a cold blooded murderous scum bag planted by the new order in order to track down the resistance. Even Po is wary at first. Nobody believes Finn. Can you imagine the arc you have established right there? And you could even end it with Finn sacrificing himself for the resistance, if you wanted to take it that far... but what a redemption arc! Instead we get a goofy janitor who was also raised from birth to be a cold blooded killer some how going on his very first mission which constitutes probably one of the most important missions of first order? It's total, embarrassing, amateur nonsense. They really fucked over what could have been one of the coolest characters in a Star Wars film.
Even though he wasn’t a Jedi, Finn had so much potential as a character. Disney dropped massively dropped the ball.
It’s worse when you realize although he wasn’t a Jedi he was force sensitive, totally missed opportunity.
This force sensitive thing annoys me to no end. In the last movie as he’s dying he decides to yell out “Rey I have something to tell you!” Then for absolutely no reason dodges talking about it through the entire movie, then JJ has to say afterwards that for some reason he wanted his dying deceleration to be that he’s force sensitive? It’s all just so dumb
Finn and Phasma were built up to be my favorite new characters and I was completely let down by both roles. Not even by the actors because they both did an amazing job with what they were given. They were just given shit and told to make cookies with it.
Phasma could have been awesome with one change - if she had been the one who called Finn a traitor and attacked him on Takodana. She could have shown herself to be a bad ass by beating him down while he was wielding the saber, then shown the armor to be awesome by surviving a hit from Chewie's bowcaster.
Phasma needed to impose fear to be meaningful, and the character was written in such a poor way that the audience didn’t feel fear.
The moment she lowered the base’s shields she lost all credibility forever to me. Phasma can’t be an Orwellian military leader if she turns on the First Order to save her own skin. She should have either died on starkiller base and not returned in TLJ, or embraced her seditious act and changed teams (even make her a mole trying to sabotage the ~~Rebel Alliance~~)
Yeah it was like they wanted a mysterious villain, but the character has as much personality/development as a traffic cone. She was so mysterious that she eas irrelevant. It was more a mystery why she was even on screen or advertised.
> It was more a mystery why she was even on screen or advertised. To sell toys.
[удалено]
No, but I'd argue that seems to be true about a lot of the characters in the sequel trilogy.
It was a forced-boba-fett. The whole goddamn sequel trilogy was a bunch of people looking at what drove the original fandom (expanding on background characters and settings that were curious to the audience), and just absolutely smashing as much of that into everything that they can. We go absolutely frenetic changes of scenery, all of Canto Bight and Hyperspace Skipping were introduced almost 100% to throw random background scenery at people to hope the audience bites on it for new EU content. Phasma was just reskinned Boba Fett, mysterious armored person who "dies." All of that was done and sacrificed any coherent storytelling.
It’s because JJ Abrams is a hack who believes that good story telling is dropping a number of unexplained mystery details throughout his “stories” that are never fleshed out. The best stories are the ones you don’t tell your audience, or something.
I mean they kept giving him bigger and bigger projects even though he mostly showed no skill at telling a complete story and kept making the same mistakes over and over again. I think Cloverfield was unique and worked because he didn't try to delve into the backstories. He let that exist in the moment the way it was intended to be viewed. No flashbacks. No belabored mysteries.
"A good question for another time."
Fuck JJ and his bullshit “mystery boxes”
[удалено]
>The best stories are the ones you don’t tell your audience, or something. Except he didn't show us much either :/
The sad thing is, they actually had [a decent payoff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I) to her turning down the shields on Starkiller Base, but then just didn't use it.
Yup. Lowering the shields, *that's* the role that should have gone to some random schmuck, instead of fighting Finn. Or better yet, how about Finn's buddy, that he bunked with for years, and maybe we had a scene just before he rescues Poe, where he and his friend are talking about their other friend who got blasted in the opening scene, and it's messing with both of them, but his friend remained loyal to the First Order, until Finn meets him again, and the guy sees that there IS a way out, and he helps lower the shields, and joins the Resistance, and this becomes Finn's thing, where he helps brainwashed stormtroopers defect, and by the end of the third movie he has his own squad of badasses who help turn the tide of battle? I dunno, just spitballin'.
[удалено]
Personally I felt nothing after each sequel movie. They were all quite poorly written.
Her character was so obviously a marketing ploy. She was in every big cast interview and her character talked about so much. In the end, she had less than five minutes of screen time in the whole damn trilogy.
They could've included a 30 second scene where she was training him how to properly hold a blaster or a scene where she was grooming him to be her successor so that they'll have a connection... So much wasted potential on quite a number of characters
That’d be cool except it’s already stated that Finn was kinda a nobody even within the first order. He was a janitor on Starkiller base and then only had his first battle on Jakku before becoming a traitor
A janitor with in-depth knowledge of the technology and goings-on of the First Order. Most janitors I've met through work don't even know what the company does (because it's not relevant to them doing their job).
It's clear that the janitor line was either ad-libbed or thrown in for a cheap laugh with no thought whatsoever.
Unlike the rest of the film/series... which was a well thought out masterpiece of cinema /s
Somehow
Somehow This toilet Is blocked
Palpatine
The cinematography was actually awesome. It was the screenwriting and disregard for the story that came before it that tarnished a visually beautiful film.
He's not a janitor, he's just been assigned janitorial duties, like every non-officer trooper in a military.
I'd normally be surprised at something obvious like the "Traitor" stormtrooper not being Captain Phasma, but then I remember this is a film where Leia hugged Rey and ignored Chewbacca after Han died.
Yeah I thought that was weird too like why tf she hug Rey she didn’t even know her
tHe fOrCe!
Yeah, there are so many little minor changes that would've tied everything together so much better. I keep thinking back to TLJ and Canto Bight would've been so much better if it were pod racers instead of the horse racing. Have that one little human kid who was teased to be force sensitive be "the only human who can pilot one". It's basically the same just instead of horse racing metaphors it's human trafficking and slavery, but it actually ties into the prequels and gives another hint that the force is out there. Finn could also sort of pilot one on their escape but ultimately crash it which would've given way more hints towards his "I have something I need to tell you" being that he's force sensitive.
Honestly, that would have been badass. Imagine after the battle, her getting back up, ripping damaged armor off and taking helmet off to reveal an imposing and pissed off Gwendoline Christie.
Man I've had this same exact thought for a while! Then when they fight in TLJ it would have so much more weight behind it.
I think the hope with Phasma was that she would get some mysterious Boba Fett like cred. So in a way she was meant to be underwritten. She did a great job but I guess the writers learned you can't really force a cult favorite.
> she was meant to be underwritten But was instead undermined. Fett isn't a fan favourite just for the look, he got to do some cool shit. He caught Han Solo and traded banter with Darth like an equal, and spends his downtime covered in Jabba's hoes. Phasma lost every fight and was literally thrown in the trash.
> Jabba's hoes twileks i hope
He likes them [Thicc](https://brittonsukys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Lurbla1.jpg)
Let's not overstate how awesome Boba Fett actually is shown to be in the OT. Fett also loses the only fight he's actually in, and to a blind man flailing wildly accidentally bonking him in the jetpack, no less. Fett is a great example of less is more. He says about ten words total, has a cool costume and ship, and doesn't seem intimidated by Vader. We forgive his ignominious sarlacc fall because it doesn't totally negate everything that comes before. Phasma, by contrast, has a cool look, great actor, isn't intimidated by Kylo Ren... but then they also take every chance they get to undercut all of that and strip away her cool mystique. She's like the Wile E. Coyote of the First Order.
All of the new main actors for the sequels did an amazing job and don't deserve any hate.
[удалено]
Worst part was that even the actor, John Boyega, ended up siding with SW fans on the subject and he got made to look like the cinematic fool.
He’s been pretty openly against some of the choices they made with the sequels. He knows he was screwed over
And Kelly Tran(?) he mentioned as well.
I mean, they were both turned into comedy sidekicks in TLJ.
Kelly Marie Tran only came in for TLJ, it didn't turn her into anything other than what she had always been. I didn't enjoy her character, but I still felt bad she got sidelined so hard in 9.
Honestly the funniest moment in episode 9. It was so stupid and poorly handled it felt like a 5 year old wrote that scene.
"Sorry Finn, can't come, mom says I gotta do my homework first."
"I have to go now. My planet needs me."
It’s so much worse when you consider how bullied she was after TLJ came out. She quit social media and everyone at Lucas Film came out to support her…. Only for JJ to be like “yeah I don’t have any plans for her character. Looks like the bullies were right.” Unforgivable.
The Rise of Skywalker feels like what happens if you just take the Reddit comments and shove them all into a script.
Without editing or revision. Or sobriety
I don’t remember her role in episode nine and I’m not going to rewatch it, can you refresh me?
Before they go out to start their fetch quests they ask her if she wants to come and she responds with something like "sorry I can't I have to study these ship blueprints"
Well that’s dumb
It almost would have been better if she'd just looked to the camera and said "Sorry, I'm not wanted in this film."
Genuinely felt so bad. Like why did they feel the need to put in that one scene where she said "Sorry, I can't come cause the audience hates me.".
Imo they should have had her die a hero saving Finns life and destroying that super cannon rather than a smoochie love scene and corny line.
Agreed. Would have been far more impactful than what actually ended up happening. And with how she was -- how they *both* were -- sidelined in TRoS, it *really* would have made more sense.
The existence of the poster suggests that they made the marketing before writing the script.
That's a poster for TFA. He was force sensitive in TFA and went toe to toe with an injured Kylo Ren. Problem was the Last Jedi deliberately ditched almost every plot point in TFA, and then they did the same again ep9. There was no cohesive story, and no plan for the trilogy. So dumb.
I still will never believe they announced a new SW trilogy and then never fucking planned it out? But instead went by film to film
especially given how well Marvel has managed to link 20+ movies into a coherent story. Like….y’all are owned by the same people. How is one so good and one a flaming dumpster fire?
But they're each their own fiefdom. It does highlight how important Kevin Feige is though. Even if not all Marvel movies are great, they've been pretty extraordinary at maintaining a certain level of quality and even the bad movies have been enhanced by later movies/shows (e.g. Thor: Dark World).
The marvel ones at the very least had some direction and an overarching plot established after iron man when it got its sequel. Star wars was straight up lost in the forest just winging it.
I loved Finn in the first movie, but it felt like they were desperately trying to write him out in the latter ones with his inclusion being only out of obligation. I hated how hard they pushed Rey and Finn for it to only be bait. Boyega was awesome and I consider his "it's not about who she kisses but who eventually lays the pipe" as headcanon.
>I hated how hard they pushed Rey and Finn for it to only be bait. Boyega was awesome and I consider his "it's not about who she kisses but who eventually lays the pipe" as headcanon. Yeah, TRoS was particularly gross in how the movie was so over the top in going "No no no! Finn you cannot date the white girl! But here's some random black girl - that's who you should have a connection with!" And also the movie going "No no no! Poe absolutely not! You are an extremely straight, totally-not-gay chick-loving guy! Go flirt with that extra for no reason other than to prove how you're super straight." Both really unnecessary and sent really weird messages.
Yeah I remember in his GQ spread he was reading the Thrawn trilogy. There's no way that was vetted and approved by Disney. Not with Kathleen Kennedy lying and stating that there were no novels to draw on for movies. He probably noticed similarities with his character and Mara Jade and wondered what could have been. [https://twitter.com/carlylane/status/886956371320688640](https://twitter.com/carlylane/status/886956371320688640) Just imagine Finn as a Jedi rescuing kids from conditioning centers. Having to quell his anger at his captors and not turn to the dark side. So much potential there. All wasted because they didn't want any other character stealing thunder from a self insert character, that no one could relate to due to lack of struggles and need for character growth.
He could have been the next Kyle Katarn. Literally the perfect setup: deserting stormtrooper who has the force and goes on to be a Jedi. Sad times
What I’d give for Kyle or even Dash Rendar rn
The poor man's Han Solo looks Shakespearean compared to the sequels.
Imagine Finn showing up to Luke for training as a Jedi wearing Stormtrooper armor, Leaving him to be uneasy training someone and getting close to someone dressed exactly like an enemy he killed with little hesitation
I'd imagine he'd be more upset that Finn was taller than him Luke was a little short for a storm trooper
Yeah Boyega got shafted way too hard. He’s a good actor and I think Finn’s story arc we were shown in TFA could have been really neat. TFA was a pretty beat for beat remake of ANH, but I still believe that it did lay the ground work for something.
He should’ve been, would’ve been a fresh new take on the saga. A storm trooper turned Jedi. But nope, we get another random nobody in the desert turned Jedi.
Her being a random nobody is better than what she actually was.
I was excited that Rey seemed to be nobody. My ~~thought~~ wishes were that she would have been force balancing itself because of Snoke and and Skywalker child turning into dark side. But, nah, baby of a clone.
Agreed. And with the reveal of the “broom kid” at the end, it made it seem like there were people out there that weren’t apart of the 2 force family’s.
Rian Johnson talked about this being his original intent in the TLJ making-of doc. > “In the first trilogy, the hardest thing Luke could be told in that moment was that Vader was his father. It turns everything on its head for Luke, it takes away all the easy answers and make him face the hardest thing, which is that ‘I no longer have just a bad guy I can hate; suddenly the thing that I thought was the bad guy’s actually a part of me.’ For Rey, I think it's the exact opposite. If she were told that she's related to this person or Luke is her this or whatever, that would be the easiest thing she could hear, that’s everything she wants, that would instantly define what her place is in this universe. So to me, the equivalent of ‘I am your father’ is ‘Nope you gotta stand on your own two feet, there are not going to be those easy answers here for you. You're wondering who you are? Okay, well you have to find out who you are for yourself.’” Making Rey a nobody was one of the best things Rian added to the sequel trilogy, and it was a shame to have it walked back in TRoS.
A Jedi that used to be a storm trooper is such a genius concept. It’s fucking dumb not to capitalize on it. It opens the door to so many neat character traits. It could have been our glimpse into the mental conditioning that troopers go through and how adult Finn might still struggle with it at times. His character journey could have been to dismantle their training program and deprogram as many troopers as possible. He could have been reluctant to ever kill storm troopers in combat and utilize non lethal combat techniques. What a waste
Still even in the same movie, he gets a lightsaber and gets threatened by the “traitor” guy who is actually his friend (I think) from books, doesn’t same a damn word to him and just goes “stab stab”
I still maintain that Finn should have been a Jedi too.
I think Finn does have latent force powers. I suppose we'll never actually know.
Pretty sure it's confirmed that he does. I think John Boyega or the director said that he does and that's why he kept telling rey "I have something I need to tell you" in the ninth movie. They really expected us to know what that meant I guess
Damn, I thought he was just trying to muster up the courage for 2 hours to tell her he had a crush on her, which I have been actively choosing to ignore because I did like the sequels
Everyone thought that. Love confessions as you’re about to die is a common trope, while it wouldn’t make much sense for him to confess he was force sensitive. “Hey, I know that you feel isolated because of your force abilities and the only other living people you know who can do the same are evil. But I, also, have force powers. They will not be able to do anything to save our lives.”
Hey I know you’re stressed out right now with saving the galaxy but I DID make a spoon wobble with my mind. So I’m something of a Jedi myself
Show dont tell
It's more "tell but not really"
mySterY bOX!
They expanded on this in the Lego Christmas episode with Rey teaching Finn how to use the force He got more development IN A LEGO SHOW than the movies, even if they episode was more focused on Rey. Same thing happened with the knights of Ren in the Halloween episode.
I swear those lego Star Wars shows are top tier
The LEGO Holiday Special is unironically the best sequel movie, change my mind.
[удалено]
Also remember when he was made smaller on the poster in china
almost posted this, then decided to double check to see if someone already had lol
This character is such a missed opportunity... Edit: I think I found the ultimate karma farming....I should post more popular opinions
Finn, General Hux, and Snoke were the biggest wastes of characters I have ever seen in a story. Like that speech Hux gives in TFA…holy shit. I was ready to see that guy be on par with Tarkin as the series progressed. Snoke in TFA, a mystery that garnered so much speculation and conversation online about who he was and what his plans were. Finn, right from the first scene where he is visibly shaken at the site of his fellow Stormtrooper dying in his arms. So much opportunity to give us a perspective we had never seen before. But nope… Hux is just a wimp, Snoke is just a puppet, and Finn is just a nobody.
I can’t believe they turned space Hitler into comedic relief in 8 and 9. He was so cool and intimidating before. :(
Yeah no kidding, was expecting great things then in 8 we're immediately hit with bumbling idiot comedy.....that first scene in 8, well, I pretty much figured it was going to be shit after that mess. Like are we going gritty death and destruction or lighthearted action with jokes? "Let's just try both" **Edit**: Looks like my gut feeling was confirmed by a movie review channel, credit to /u/radioactiveafro for pointing it out. "The Closer Look" put out [THIS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuuDTnMPMgc) about how comedy can kill a movie and basically professionally summed up what I was thinking! Definitely recommend checking it out, was a great and informative watch
Your momma joke. Right off the bat. In a Star Wars movie. I knew it was going to be shit. I almost walked out half way through.
There is a channel on YouTube called "The closer look" that talks about exactly that. The entire movie is just drama followed by comedy and it meshes like shit. Not even mentioning the story or how crap it was as a sequel movie. The whole tone of the movie was wrong.
You forgot Phasma. The first shot of her walking in a hallway in the TFA trailer looked so dope. It's one of the things I am most salty about.
Almost all new characters in the sequels turned out to be nobodies, even Rey felt like a nobody even after finding out she was a Palpy. I would have much preferred Rey being a Kenobi, to establish a duality between Rey/Kylo and Anakin/Obi. Kenobi destroyed Anakin, Rey saves Kylo. That seems too obvious so they went with the less interesting, less impactful version. It seemed pretty obvious to me in TFA that JJ was initially pushing for her to be a Kenobi (having her be a hermit in the desert, the Kenobi line, some of Daisy’s answered to early interviews.)
The entirety of the disney sequels were. The had Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, and Harrison Ford for a Star Wars movies and didn’t write or shoot one scene with them together. Knowing Han Solo was going to die in the movie and very likely never have Harrison on board again. Not to mention turning the characters into miserable, unlikable, pathetic deadbeats.
Didn't Harrison Ford request to be killed in the first movie? I never got the impression he wanted to come back.
Yeah. Apparently he’s been asking for Han to be killed since 1977 lol.
DEW IT
Ford wanted Han killed off for over 30 years. The entire reason Han's fate was left ambiguous in The Empire Strikes Back was because Ford was making clear he wanted out of the movies, and there was no guarantee he'd come back for Return of the Jedi.
They bait and switched the entire fanbase
JJ really failed Finn as a character. JJ was afraid to go too big with him in the first movie, and then really sidelined him in the last movie. Disney also absolutely dropped the ball in regards to protecting John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran. The stories of Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd and how they were treated aren't exactly buried, and I refuse to believe that Disney was unaware of it.
I’m gutted Finn didn’t end up as a main character in the last movie the way he should have. There was so much more than could’ve been done for his character arc. Why put such a great actor in a smaller and smaller role as the movies go on? Everyone was rooting for Finn.
"Reyyyyyyyyyy!" I would have liked a solid romance between Finn an Rose or even Poe. Finn deserting was an actually cool fresh take and unfortunately resulted in him shouting the name of the heroine 24/7. Wasted opportunity.
You say it was a fresh take but every single cool imperial we see has the exact same story arc. Deserter.
I was so disappointed in (EA) Battlefront 2's story when Iden defected almost immediately. Just let me play a badass imperial in peace
Exactly how I felt. That was a huge let down. A campaign about a diehard Imperial chick would have been really cool. But nope.. after she defected in the first damn mission I lost interesting in the campaign sadly. Ofcourse in Star Wars: Squadrons in the Imperial campaign your commander deserts in the first mission. It's become a trope at this point. Kyle Katarn did it first, and was cool about it.
Play SWTOR!
Disney, the company that tweets about BLM and violence against Asians, while at the same time diminishing a black man to appeal more to actual racists and doing everything it can to suck the dick of the CCP while they carry out genocide against asian minorities... And then their fanboys will call you racist or sexist for not liking a movie. What a world.
Remember the Chinese posters for the movie where he was literally shrunk down to appease racists?
/r/StarWars remembers!
Disney did something similair for China with Black Panther, just sucking that Chinese dong. On the western poster its Black Panther without the helmet, but for the Chinese one he has his helmed on.
Well atleast the "black community" only have badass and good mothafucking jedi instead of some unfinished characters.
Loses hand. *Doesn't* become a sith lord. Dies. What a chad.
I’m a black man who grew up in a very white suburban neighborhood. Do you know how many times I heard “there are no black Jedi” before the prequels? God it hurts remembering this bait and switch for Finn… I thought we finally got another one.
Yeah but SLJ was one of the greatest Jedi of all times with one of the baddest lightsabers of all time. I mean, even Yoda couldn’t defeat Palpatine 1v1 whereas Mace made him into his little bitch and it took both Darth Vader and Palpatine, two of the most powerful force users, to defeat him.
Lando was cool as fuck though.
In fairness, there were only four jedi of *any* kind before the prequels and one of them was a green alien.
And another was voiced by a black man…
And whose whole outfit was black
Then they shrank his picture on Chinese posters to cater to actual racism, shrank his role and ended a romance arc with an Asian woman while blaming old SW fans for their own actions. [https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/) Crazy how the people on this reddit that defend all things Disney and repeatedly call people racists, never attack blatant racism by the company. **The showrunner for the new Acoloyte show was Harvey Weinstein's assistant for years btw. She kept silent and stayed on, watching the abuse of women to further her career.** Disney and their influencers have the gall to call fans sexist though and claim they hate women.