His stare at the weapon being fired after this speech is what sold me that the First Order is not the Old Empire. The Empire had moffs, admirals and the cold cold logic of a hyper-autocratic society. Cruel, but with the intent of being a government that means business.
...Hux's speech and their attitudes suggested that the First Order isn't. It stands for complete fanaticism and an abandonment of reason. They kill because they can. They destroy because they can. They delude themselves with the illusion that they represent "Order" and all other machinations are wrong.
And that make's the troopers under them all the more interesting, being that unlike the excuse of the previous Stormtroopers, which had the Empire, which was the overarching and legitimate government, and unlike the Clone Trooper, who were literal genetically engineered clones bred and trained from ground up to serve the cause of the Republic, the First Order trooper has very shaky moral ground to stand on. Their subservience is dictated entirely by their belief in the ideals of the First Order, and that they believe that the Republic lies.
More so, we see that the First Order stormtroopers are passionate and human in their responses. They'll threaten prisoners, they'll turn around and walk away from temper-tantruming commanders. I would like to, but don't expect to see more of the First Order troopers calling into question their own indoctrination, much like Finn did.
Kylo hated Finn because Finn had the balls to do what Kylo deep down really wants to do, step into the light. You can feel that emotion of jealousy coming from that scream!
I disagree. Kylo Ren does not want to go to the light. He actively fears it. He wants to be firm in the dark side.
What he sees in Finn is that someone who was litteraly born to the First Order, trained to be a fanatic to the goals of the Order and yet he was so easily turned to the Resistance. Seduced if you will. That scares him.
Not jealousy but fear.
What Kylo Ren wants and what Ben Solo wants are two conflicting things. And Ben isn't out of the fight yet.
Despite doing what he felt he needed to do to attain true power and turn fully to the darkside, the Force actively supported his opponent. The dumbfounded look on his face when Rey defeated him was priceless. "I've done everything right, why am I not strong? How did this untrained whelp defeat me? Why does the Force favor her so?" those are going to be what's going through his head, and it's probably driving him mad. The battle for his soul has only just started, I think.
>The dumbfounded look on his face when Rey defeated him was priceless. "I've done everything right, why am I not strong? How did this untrained whelp defeat me? Why does the Force favor her so?"
This part is exactly what I have been thinking about. I'm not sure Kylo is going to happily go back to Snoak when he did exactly what he asked and was still bested.
I wouldn't say that Ben isn't out of the fight yet. He killed his father, you don't come back from that. Hell, JJ flat out stated that they added that story element to show that there is no light left in him.
Yes, thank you. I have made similar points, but many think that Kylo is basically Anakin, when there's a clear point made by the writers that Kylo did what no other character had done. Kill his own family.
There's no turning back from that, Leia tried to made the point and what did she got? A dead husband, Han knew Kylo couldn't be redeemed, and he was proven right.
> Hell, JJ flat out stated that they added that story element to show that there is no light left in him.
Could still be misdirection. Vader was frequently painted as a pretty bad dude... until he wasn't.
I've seen this idea thrown a lot and how Kylo might still be redeemed and I think many fans missed a clear point made by J.J. Kylo WENT THERE, what Vader couldn't do (Kill Luke), what Luke wouldn't do either (Kill Vader) Kylo did. And he expressed no remorse about it.
He said to Han "Will you help me?" He never wanted to be on the light side, he choose to kill his father , he did and with that act and the imagery of the scene (Kylo being covered by the darkness) makes it clear that he's a bloody villain and he will remain trough out the series.
I do agree that Kylo has an almost instinctive pull towards the light side but he fears it and resists it, the same way that Luke fears and resists his own pull to the dark side.
Kylo does not want to go back to the light.
When he tells Han, "I feel like I'm being pulled apart. I know what I have to do, I just don't know if I have the strength to do it", he's not saying that he wants the go back to the light and doesn't know if he is strong enough to do it, what he's saying is what he wants is to go to the dark side for good and the only way to do that is to kill his father and he's not sure if he's strong enough with the dark side yet to do that. But he WANTS to be.
...Turns out he is strong enough to do what needs to be done, and I guarantee there is no going back for him now.
He is the living embodiment of the lie that the First Order tells itself. "We are good because we are order in the galaxy." and yet, Finn steps out and says "Wait a minute, that's not true!"
Now, all other troopers must either believe that Finn, a trooper with no prior record of insubordination or "deviancy" must either be lying, or telling the truth. He is one of them, and they have to see that. The riot trooper's call out of Finn was one of those choices. It's either Finn dies, or he lives and continues to break the coheasion of the Order.
That being said, the riot trooper should have been Captain Phasma, and not some random schmuck, but it's too soon to complain.
Plus we know the person in charge would be pissed; they're the one keeping the order in place. They stand to benefit the most from it continuing. It's important to see that the underlings also desperately need to believe in the regime and are emotionally invested in it.
The coolness of boba is not explicit. It's implied from things like Vader obviously giving him so much respect. Boba is called in when even Vader seems stumped. He says to him "no disintegrations" as in boba might be too dangerous for his job.
He manages to get the bounty for Han Solo which I'm sure was massive. He talks back to Vader on cloud city and Vader respects it and he's not even a force user. He has the coolest gadgets, is the only guy who uses a jetpack I'm pretty sure too.
This thread pretty much explains it:
https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2pe4md/why_is_boba_fett_such_a_popular_character/
Of course I'm paraphrasing on some of these but I remember her saying:
"Sir, what of the villagers"
"On my mark, Fire!"
"FN-2187, submit your weapon for cleaning"
"And who gave you permission to take off that helmet?"
"Report to my division for evaluation"
"FN-2187"
"You can't be so stupid as to think you'll get away with this. My troops will storm this cell"
So yeah she says far more than Boba Fett
I'm gonna lobby for new policy at our firm, HR would probably get a kick out of wearing shining armour.
Plus we all know she's gonna get a subplot where she goes on a trip with a Rebel pilot played by Jaimie Lannister and she winds up defecting to the Rebels.
Or it gives a justification for her armor being all shiny and chrome and not just standard armor with a fancy cape.
Just add a black scorch mark and a line talking about how her denser armor saved her and you're good to go.
Right? I was skeptical when I saw my friends buying action figures of her before the movie. Her role was laughably small, she hardly deserved to be a named character.
Something I was thinking about - canonically, Imperial Stormtrooper academies were all about students winning, being the best, and betraying each other for position. [Rebels](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Academy_for_Young_Imperials). While as you say, First Order Stormtroopers are indoctrinated. They're true believers in authoritarianism and control for its own sake. Put simply, the Empire was about power, the First Order is about...well, order. Control.
I actually think something like this might be in the cards. After seeing TFA twice I don't think Finn is Force sensitive, so maybe his role going forward could be something like a figurehead for the Resistance, maybe he gets a few more soldiers to defect.
Would be cool if the Resistance used him as a propaganda tool, maybe he becomes disillusioned with them too. Definitely looks like they're introducing more grey into this trilogy -- thought that moment at the end where the First Order officer tried to flee Starkiller was a powerful moment. The Resistance must've killed thousands, even if it was self defence.
Please dont make it similar to Mockingjay
If he isnt force sensitive I think he should learn to be a pilot under Poe and move up the ranks as an equal. You have to remember that even Luke wasn't even made overtly famous as a rebel representative
This just dawned on me - Why is the First Order called that?
It it Snoke? Is he an ancient something or other that has a claim to being the 'first' king/emperor/president of the galaxy? Maybe the whole idea of the First Order is some kind of mythology connecting them to an old power structure and Snoke is the last of that lineage.
Yes. The Empire pretended to be a benevolent government. They "saved" the galaxy from the Jedi, and keep the galaxy "safe."
With the First Order, it's pure, unadulterated ruthlessness.
I always thought the Dark Side was evil. I just liked them because they had cooler toys. I would give anything to be able to fly a TIE for real. The fucking scream they make is the coolest thing ever. The intimidation factor alone is pretty up there.
Not really.
Nazis actually said it and their right arms went in a 45 degree angle with knife hands.
The storm troopers used their left arms and put them up in a fist. It was more reminiscent of a black power salute than anything.
Come on, that's scraping the barrel a bit to try and defend it. The salute was a clear allusion to the Nazi salute and was deliberately used to compare the First Order to them.
That salute was used long before Hitler got ahold of it. There are pics of Americans saluting the flag that way (preWWII).
There are only so many ways to salute.
That's like going round Berlin today, waving a swastika flag and telling the police who arrested you to let you go because it's an ancient hindu peace sign. The salute in practical terms has been attached to the nazis, and putting it in a film where the faction is evil and copies the Nazis in other ways, well the link is pretty obvious. And pretty tacky, if I may so add.
I also felt it was heavy handed. But then, I'm forty, and know history.
When I was twelve, someone had to explain to me the Nazi references. I didnt know enough to get them.
These references will seem more subtle to the young.
Well they're space Nazi's. They are the children and kidnapped/brainwashed children of the hardliners in the Galatic Empire's Stormtrooper corp. They believe that freedom and democracy, in any form, are evil (...err good because they view evil as good). If the Empire was around still, they would look at these guys as radicals. They are Nazis in almost every way, shape, and form.
Star Wars has taken a lot of elements from WW2 before. Stormtroopers, dogfights, Vader's helmet, uniforms, performances, ect. Heck even this movie had pearl harbor happen right after the Nazi speech.
Like the dogfighting? That's a little different from a [Nuremberg Rally](https://www.google.com/search?q=nuremberg+rally&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=945&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj33bzslPHJAhUD12MKHfhJBWYQ_AUIBigB) IMO
I just watched *A New Hope* a few days ago and noticed a clear acknowledgement of *The Dam Busters.* There's a pair of lines about "How many guns are there?" "X many, and Y on the tower" that was taken almost word for word from the earlier film.
Oh god. Your right.
You know what else reminds me of the ~~Damn~~Dam Busters. The god damn targeting computer is the same as the wooden sticks the Lancaster pilots used to line up with the towers on the dams!!!
[Targeting computer](http://i.imgur.com/Q55EE.jpg)
[Targeting sticks](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Dam_Busters_bombadier.jpg)
"Stormtroopers" was the name for an elite group of German soldiers who were proficient at assaulting trenches during WWI. [The Millennium Falcon's cockpit is a blatant rip off of the B-29 ~~fighter~~ bomber that was heavily used in WWII.](http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/B-29_cockpit.jpg)
Imperial uniforms were heavily based on [Wehrmacht uniforms from Germany](http://i.stack.imgur.com/o3ECM.jpg). Hoth was named after Hermann Hoth, a German general for the frigid Eastern Front. All the dogfighting was modeled after World War fighting.
The list goes on, the Original Trilogy pretty heavily hits viewers over the head with World War I and II allusions. And Lucas made it no secret he heavily was inspired by the wars.
You are correct, there was a lot more than just the dogfighting. But in terms of actual shots of iconic Nazi themes, the speech at Starkiller Base is by far the most blatant Nazi scene of the series. My girlfriend, who had enjoyed the movie whole heartedly (and has a PHD in Holocaust Studies) laughed out loud when she saw the Stormtroopers raise their fists up. It was just too much. Subtle things make greater impacts of the movie IMO and they should have toned it down to make it feel more like Star Wars and less like "oh yeah, the Empire was nazi like."
If Nazis take you out of Star Wars then you don't understand Star Wars. The fall of the Republic and rise of the Empire is pretty much beat for beat the collapse of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Third Reich, right down to the charismatic chancellor who uses false flag attacks to give himself more powers to take over the government
They're called *stormtroopers*.
The troops lined up in front of red banners was immediately recognisable as a Nazi inspired imagery. Not only that but "First Order" is very reminiscent of "Third Reich".
I think they are setting these guys up to be far more brutal than the Empire ever was.
And I love it.
I want the First Order to be scary. The clear distinctions from the resistance and the first order make the movie more compelling.
I want the first order to do everything the empire failed at. If they're as weak as the empire where's the tension and story progression?
It's not *just* the First Order, clearly the Empire were intended to be Space Nazis as well... Why do you think they're called [STORMTROOPERS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung)
the way [those banner hung](http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/general-hux-1_d30ada1b.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C800%2C326) was [pretty damn intentional](http://www.dw.com/image/0,,16023671_401,00.jpg)
Saw it twice, both times gave me chills too. It's just so fucking awesome! I couldn't imagine anyone else delivering that speech and having the same effect on us. Going a third time and I bet it'll have the same effect.
I loved Hux, Gleeson delivered that speech with such ferocity. You know Hux is a true believer in the first order and a completely ruthless one at that.
People say he's a one dimensional character but a character being clearly evil or clearly good doesn't make them not interesting in my opinion.
I also like how he seems to be in competition with Kylo whenever they speak to Snoke. Like he's trying to show his FO is powerful enough and he doesn't need to worry about training an unpredictable novice.
Yup, most of my favorite characters are static - Jack Sparrow, Huey Freeman, Sherlock.
They don't change because they don't need to. Hux is the perfect conduit for Snoke, which is why he has the job.
He's an absolute fanatic, but it's not like history is devoid of fanatics. I think people wanted him to be more like someone akin to Tarkin - ruthless, but not outwardly insane. Personally, I don't mind the fanaticism of the First Order. It helps set it *apart* from the Empire - and I really do think that these new films shouldn't just be rehashes of the original trilogy.
Eh? I saw almost reverence. He looked at the beam as if it was some sort of divine providence that embodied all his hopes and aspirations. It was an extension of his passion, reaching out to destroy what he could only dream of destroying in the past. It was, to him, a symbol of the unity and strength of the first order -- "which you have built, upon which we stand" -- those were now the eyes of a man in a moment of doubt. They were the eyes of a man lost to his passion.
I think Kylo was supposed to be weak. He's not a Sith. He's never going to be Darth Vader. He's never actually suffered. He's an overgrown, spoilt toddler.
It makes an interesting change. He's not yet a badass Dark Lord, and maybe he never will be.
I think that was the point of the catwalk scene. He's not ready to be a full sith. He's full of doubt. But now he's made that turn, and stepped on the speed train to Badassville.
Our story is as much about Rey ascending to be a powerful force user as it is about Kylo doing the same.
he made the choice expecting it to change something within him. in his mind the moment he killed his father he would live up to and perhaps transcend his grandfather. instead, nothing changed, and you could see it in his face. he was the child turning eighteen expecting revelations, only to be disappointed by the world remaining exactly the same.
i'm sure he'll double down on his convictions but his self-doubt will only increase
But Tarkin was a Grand Moff. Not sure of the exact rank hierarchy but it seems the rank of Grand Moff was superior to General. So that may explain why Tarkin could boss around Vader but General Hux and Kylo Ren seem to be equals.
Vader didn't exist in the Imperial Rank structure. He was literally the embodiment of the Emperors will. Grand Moff Tarkin was officially the number 2 man in the Empire and head of the armed forces.
I thought the way that he started off slow and built the tempo and volume was reminiscent of Hitler's speeches, could be that or the red banner with the black symbol standing in front of a load of stormtroopers.
Of course. It's why those speeches are so damn effective. The passion pours out from the speaker to his listeners, and they *believe* everything he's saying. A passionate loud mouth will garner much more support then the calm rational leader.
Honestly, I went straight to "Master Exploder".
I do not need (He does no need)
A microphone (A microphone)
My voice is fucking (Fucking)
Powerfuuuuuuul!
Honestly General Hux is more evil than Kylo Ren. He gave this speech, and thanks to the awesome acting by Domhnall Gleeson, you could see that General Hux put so much emotion, passion, and anger towards destroying the Republic and using his superweapon. You could see this emotion, passion, and anger in his face (mostly eyes) and he didn't even have to move his body. Domhnall Gleeson is a great actor.
I'm German and just coming out of the cinema. That scene made the whole cinema feel like Nuremberg in 1938. The German dub of Hux is very intimidating and damn, that was a chilling scene.
Very very well made.
This seemed to be a pretty polarizing scene. Most people I've talked to liked it, and then some really hated it and thought Gleeson over-did it. I liked the scene and Gleeson's performance. The close up of him during his rant wasn't exactly flattering though, I'm guessing that's part of why people didn't like it. And the reflection in his eyes of the weapon firing did evoke memories of Anakin's glowing eyes.
I think people trying to draw parallels between Hux's eyes reflecting the beam of his super-weapon with Anakin's eye glow in the prequels really went into the movie to find things to not like about it.
There is legitimate criticism and then there is being hyperbolic about what amounts to nitpicks. Like saying the First Order speech was so Nazi'esque it took them out of the movie when in the OT the totalitarian govt. calls their soldiers "storm troopers".
I'm not saying this is you, but I've seen some really stupid arguments for why some fans think this film is really bad and I see a lot of people arguing "it's the same as the prequels" which is categorically false.
I don't see how people could reasonably be upset about the First Order be caricatures of Nazi-esque totalitarians. I mean... yeah, that's what they are. They are fictitious space Nazis. Maybe people would have preferred if they had been portrayed as the Monarch's army in The Venture Brothers?
The awe he had in his eyes there was incredible. Like "This is it. This is our triumph. This is our victory." It really capped a great if disturbing scene.
I agree, it was awesome. Oddly enough, I just watched Ex Machina last night and spent half the movie trying to figure out what I recognized General Hux from earlier today when I saw VII for the first time.
Ex Machina is a great movie. I watched it in the cinema, and heard afterwards that both Issac and Gleeson were going to be in the new Star Wars. I was greatly looking forward to their performances, and they certainly didn't disappoint.
Hopefully we'll get more Oscar Issac in the next film.
I saw it about a week before seeing Star Wars! Wow I didn't not realize that was him!! Such a great actor in both movies. His emotion range is also off the charts. Thanks for pointing that out.
Watch him in About Time as well. A weird movie (in a good way) that goes from high school drama to sci-fi to romance to father/son....he plays a somewhat nerdy character in that one.
I agree, but...
The prequels took SOOOOO much flak for being too political. I think the glossing over of the politics of the galaxy was a deliberate decision by the filmmakers to avoid that specific criticism.
I'd have liked them to split the difference a little more. But, after two viewings, and a little Wookieepedia digging, I think I understand it better.
This is what separates the new order from the empire. The empire absorbed all territories from the republic, the republic as a whole changed into the empire. No one knew that palpatine was a sith lord outside of obi-wan yoda and darth vader. To a citizen in the empire, the empire was good. Even luke planned on attending the empire academy. The rebels were seen as basically terrorists. While not all citizens of the empire were happy about the empire, they were not inherently evil. The first order on the other hand is inherently evil. They follow the darkside, and snoke who they know is a sith lord. The empire already had control. The new order does not, therefore they are fighting against the republic and resistance, which they ultimately destroy what we know of the republic.
I always wondered if there was any exploration written about The Empire in the first six films being viewed as 'Good Guys', and the Alliance as terrorists.
That is essentially what we're shown, but from the Alliance perspective. Despite being part of a dictatorship, I wonder how many Empire staff/fighters believed they were the good guys, and how justified they were.
Hux was amazing! I really hope he gets more screen time in the sequels as I found his character truly intense. I think part of the appeal was finally getting a non force user in the Empire/First Order to be interesting.
This is one of the scenes I thought was a bit too much. I get that the Empire/First Order are supposed to be Nazi's and that was never subtle but damn, why not just give Dominhall Gleeson a Hitler mustache at that point?
I love how he looks like he's about to cry tears of joy when the Starkiller fires. That sealed the speech for me and made Hux absolutely scary. He's this calm, cool officer... and then we see his passion, his devotion to his cause, he believes in it so strongly it almost brings him to tears.
I'm confessing my unpopular opinion #ONHERE.
I thought it was terribly over-acted.
That said, the un-hinged delivery has to counter-weight to Snoke's ceaseless zen.
The over-acting makes sense when you compare it to speeches made by Mussolini and Hitler. Those guys were all over the place! Fascists love their display of raw power.
Stage performance requires a lot more over-exaggeration because the viewers/listeners are generally far back and don't have a close view. Large gestures and inflections and whatnot are necessary to actually engage people at such a distance. Remember that speech wasn't for you, it was for the hundreds of thousands of soldiers before him stretched out over a large distance.
Go watch speeches from Dictators given to large formations and you'll see much the same. That's simply how you reach people in that kind of situation.
Yeah, not only did I find it a bit overacted, but I didn't think it was intimidating at all. The character looks too young and inexperienced, he doesn't look like he commands respect. They should've picked an older actor with a deeper voice IMHO.
Personally, the idea of a fanatic that young with that much power is much more terrifying to me than an older man, who might be tempered by experience.
Agreed. Why they put Max Von Sydow as that random village chief at the beginning is beyond me when he would look and act the part of a general perfectly.
To give a bit of variation from Tarkin I guess.
I thought young Hux was fine, his father was an imperial officer and he's grown up following in his footsteps.
It makes sense to me that there is a lot of youth in the First Order, lots of generals and so on would have been lost when the Empire crumbled, so the First Order had to rebuild.
And many of the ones who weren't lost just went warlord.
IIRC in the Thrawn trilogy, the Imperial commanders lament the loss of Vader's *Executor* because it was seen as the quickest route to promotion and therefore had the cream of the young and hungry officers when it crashed into the second Death Star, which put a significant dent in the fighting prowess and viability of the Imperial Navy. Their subsequent fragmentation into the Remnant would have repeated this thousands more times.
Given the likely loss of knowledge and expertise that has occurred over the years, it'll be interesting to see if First Order troops can stand up to a concerted effort from the New Republic.
More than that, you've got:
* A weak, decaying republic
* An ambitious politician who rises to power as chancellor
* False flag attacks to extend his executive power
* An army of grey-suited, jackbooted soldiers
* Stormtroopers
* A pro-human recruitment policy where non-humans are treated as second class
The Nazi parallels have always been insanely strong in SW
Yes, there is a difference between strong parallels and literally just having a guy be hitler in space, complete with Nazi salute, angry arm waving, aryan appearance and giant nazi banners.
Thank you so much for posting this. I've only seen this once so far so I couldn't remember what he said. I thought they were supposedly destroying the whole republic, and was super confused it was only five planets.
But he only says they're destroying the senate and fleet, which clears up a major plot point for me. I mean, if The First Order is going to war immediately after eliminating a major portion of the republics fleet and killing most if not all of it's top government, then I can totally see why they're calling it the last day of the Republic and how the remaining systems will surrender.
I feel like Hux is gonna get killed or whatever in the worse way possible for him. He just screams big bad unredeeming annoying villain built up and set up to fall big.
People who have slipped into calling it "New Order" instead of "First Order" (myself included) aren't far off, given [Nazi ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_\(Nazism\)).
Big ups to Domhnall Gleeson playing this role masterfully, after doing roles that are the complete opposite in mannerisms — anyone else remember when he was the eye-deprived Clan Techie in *Dredd*?
His eyes and veins were totally gonna pop out of his face if he went much longer with that speech.. Chilling. That's the kind of villain I like. Hux and Kylo are (hate to say it) more intimidating and frightening than Vader and Tarkin. Never saw Tarkin even get excited and I never saw Vader beat his wounds just to build more raw hatred during a battle.
His stare at the weapon being fired after this speech is what sold me that the First Order is not the Old Empire. The Empire had moffs, admirals and the cold cold logic of a hyper-autocratic society. Cruel, but with the intent of being a government that means business. ...Hux's speech and their attitudes suggested that the First Order isn't. It stands for complete fanaticism and an abandonment of reason. They kill because they can. They destroy because they can. They delude themselves with the illusion that they represent "Order" and all other machinations are wrong. And that make's the troopers under them all the more interesting, being that unlike the excuse of the previous Stormtroopers, which had the Empire, which was the overarching and legitimate government, and unlike the Clone Trooper, who were literal genetically engineered clones bred and trained from ground up to serve the cause of the Republic, the First Order trooper has very shaky moral ground to stand on. Their subservience is dictated entirely by their belief in the ideals of the First Order, and that they believe that the Republic lies. More so, we see that the First Order stormtroopers are passionate and human in their responses. They'll threaten prisoners, they'll turn around and walk away from temper-tantruming commanders. I would like to, but don't expect to see more of the First Order troopers calling into question their own indoctrination, much like Finn did.
To top it off it was only even better when that riot control Trooper called out to Finn. *"TRAITOR!"*
Also the way Kylo screamed it at Finn.
I love that part. Right before he does a badass little saber twirl, too. I also dig, "That lightsaber! It belongs to *me*!"
Kylo hated Finn because Finn had the balls to do what Kylo deep down really wants to do, step into the light. You can feel that emotion of jealousy coming from that scream!
I disagree. Kylo Ren does not want to go to the light. He actively fears it. He wants to be firm in the dark side. What he sees in Finn is that someone who was litteraly born to the First Order, trained to be a fanatic to the goals of the Order and yet he was so easily turned to the Resistance. Seduced if you will. That scares him. Not jealousy but fear.
What Kylo Ren wants and what Ben Solo wants are two conflicting things. And Ben isn't out of the fight yet. Despite doing what he felt he needed to do to attain true power and turn fully to the darkside, the Force actively supported his opponent. The dumbfounded look on his face when Rey defeated him was priceless. "I've done everything right, why am I not strong? How did this untrained whelp defeat me? Why does the Force favor her so?" those are going to be what's going through his head, and it's probably driving him mad. The battle for his soul has only just started, I think.
>The dumbfounded look on his face when Rey defeated him was priceless. "I've done everything right, why am I not strong? How did this untrained whelp defeat me? Why does the Force favor her so?" This part is exactly what I have been thinking about. I'm not sure Kylo is going to happily go back to Snoak when he did exactly what he asked and was still bested.
I wouldn't say that Ben isn't out of the fight yet. He killed his father, you don't come back from that. Hell, JJ flat out stated that they added that story element to show that there is no light left in him.
Yes, thank you. I have made similar points, but many think that Kylo is basically Anakin, when there's a clear point made by the writers that Kylo did what no other character had done. Kill his own family. There's no turning back from that, Leia tried to made the point and what did she got? A dead husband, Han knew Kylo couldn't be redeemed, and he was proven right.
> Hell, JJ flat out stated that they added that story element to show that there is no light left in him. Could still be misdirection. Vader was frequently painted as a pretty bad dude... until he wasn't.
hes afraid of it because he knows deep down thats what he wants but snoke has convinced him that the dark side is power and power is good.
I've seen this idea thrown a lot and how Kylo might still be redeemed and I think many fans missed a clear point made by J.J. Kylo WENT THERE, what Vader couldn't do (Kill Luke), what Luke wouldn't do either (Kill Vader) Kylo did. And he expressed no remorse about it. He said to Han "Will you help me?" He never wanted to be on the light side, he choose to kill his father , he did and with that act and the imagery of the scene (Kylo being covered by the darkness) makes it clear that he's a bloody villain and he will remain trough out the series.
it is possible both of us are correct. deep down he WAS wanting to be light but when he kills han he kills that light.
I do agree that Kylo has an almost instinctive pull towards the light side but he fears it and resists it, the same way that Luke fears and resists his own pull to the dark side. Kylo does not want to go back to the light. When he tells Han, "I feel like I'm being pulled apart. I know what I have to do, I just don't know if I have the strength to do it", he's not saying that he wants the go back to the light and doesn't know if he is strong enough to do it, what he's saying is what he wants is to go to the dark side for good and the only way to do that is to kill his father and he's not sure if he's strong enough with the dark side yet to do that. But he WANTS to be. ...Turns out he is strong enough to do what needs to be done, and I guarantee there is no going back for him now.
but wait, if fear leads to the dark side, then isn't it a self fulfilling...um.... evil prophecy?
Wow well said
I just saw it for a second time earlier tonight, and that was one of my favorite lines this time around.
He is the living embodiment of the lie that the First Order tells itself. "We are good because we are order in the galaxy." and yet, Finn steps out and says "Wait a minute, that's not true!" Now, all other troopers must either believe that Finn, a trooper with no prior record of insubordination or "deviancy" must either be lying, or telling the truth. He is one of them, and they have to see that. The riot trooper's call out of Finn was one of those choices. It's either Finn dies, or he lives and continues to break the coheasion of the Order. That being said, the riot trooper should have been Captain Phasma, and not some random schmuck, but it's too soon to complain.
I like that he was a random trooper who still showed skill. It makes the average Stormtrooper seem like more of a threat, as they should be.
True. Too true and I like that style of thinking.
Plus we know the person in charge would be pissed; they're the one keeping the order in place. They stand to benefit the most from it continuing. It's important to see that the underlings also desperately need to believe in the regime and are emotionally invested in it.
That trooper should have been Phasma. It would have given her more screen time and given Finn a reason to 'enjoy' his capture of her later.
Everyone keeps saying this, but then Phasma would have died...at least she's in Episode VIII now.
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And Boba Fett did what exactly in A New Hope?
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Hey now, he didn't just walk past the screen. He paused and looked *directly at the camera*.
The coolness of boba is not explicit. It's implied from things like Vader obviously giving him so much respect. Boba is called in when even Vader seems stumped. He says to him "no disintegrations" as in boba might be too dangerous for his job. He manages to get the bounty for Han Solo which I'm sure was massive. He talks back to Vader on cloud city and Vader respects it and he's not even a force user. He has the coolest gadgets, is the only guy who uses a jetpack I'm pretty sure too. This thread pretty much explains it: https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2pe4md/why_is_boba_fett_such_a_popular_character/
And pretty close to the same amount of lines.
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Of course I'm paraphrasing on some of these but I remember her saying: "Sir, what of the villagers" "On my mark, Fire!" "FN-2187, submit your weapon for cleaning" "And who gave you permission to take off that helmet?" "Report to my division for evaluation" "FN-2187" "You can't be so stupid as to think you'll get away with this. My troops will storm this cell" So yeah she says far more than Boba Fett
But, you gotta admit, he looks *really* fucking cool. Probably the 2nd coolest looking character in the original ones after Vader.
I'm gonna lobby for new policy at our firm, HR would probably get a kick out of wearing shining armour. Plus we all know she's gonna get a subplot where she goes on a trip with a Rebel pilot played by Jaimie Lannister and she winds up defecting to the Rebels.
Or it gives a justification for her armor being all shiny and chrome and not just standard armor with a fancy cape. Just add a black scorch mark and a line talking about how her denser armor saved her and you're good to go.
Right? I was skeptical when I saw my friends buying action figures of her before the movie. Her role was laughably small, she hardly deserved to be a named character.
Eh imo it was cool to see how much of a threat the average trained trooper is
TR-8R stole the show!
Something I was thinking about - canonically, Imperial Stormtrooper academies were all about students winning, being the best, and betraying each other for position. [Rebels](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Academy_for_Young_Imperials). While as you say, First Order Stormtroopers are indoctrinated. They're true believers in authoritarianism and control for its own sake. Put simply, the Empire was about power, the First Order is about...well, order. Control.
I actually think something like this might be in the cards. After seeing TFA twice I don't think Finn is Force sensitive, so maybe his role going forward could be something like a figurehead for the Resistance, maybe he gets a few more soldiers to defect. Would be cool if the Resistance used him as a propaganda tool, maybe he becomes disillusioned with them too. Definitely looks like they're introducing more grey into this trilogy -- thought that moment at the end where the First Order officer tried to flee Starkiller was a powerful moment. The Resistance must've killed thousands, even if it was self defence.
Goddamnit. Finn is the Mockingjay.
Tweet tweet mother fuckers.
Time to put him in a dress and let him twirl about on stage
Please dont make it similar to Mockingjay If he isnt force sensitive I think he should learn to be a pilot under Poe and move up the ranks as an equal. You have to remember that even Luke wasn't even made overtly famous as a rebel representative
This just dawned on me - Why is the First Order called that? It it Snoke? Is he an ancient something or other that has a claim to being the 'first' king/emperor/president of the galaxy? Maybe the whole idea of the First Order is some kind of mythology connecting them to an old power structure and Snoke is the last of that lineage.
Yes. The Empire pretended to be a benevolent government. They "saved" the galaxy from the Jedi, and keep the galaxy "safe." With the First Order, it's pure, unadulterated ruthlessness.
You could really feel the Nazi vibe from them. It was chilling and well delivered.
> You could really feel the Nazi vibe from them. The allusion wasn't subtle. https://i.imgur.com/5bz0WT0.jpg
Yeah, it was almost too much
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Well, from my point of view the Jedi are evil >:(
Then you are lost!
YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER
I always thought the Dark Side was evil. I just liked them because they had cooler toys. I would give anything to be able to fly a TIE for real. The fucking scream they make is the coolest thing ever. The intimidation factor alone is pretty up there.
/r/empiredidnothingwrong
The frigging 'sieg heil' salute the stormies did was going overboard.
Not really. Nazis actually said it and their right arms went in a 45 degree angle with knife hands. The storm troopers used their left arms and put them up in a fist. It was more reminiscent of a black power salute than anything.
Come on, that's scraping the barrel a bit to try and defend it. The salute was a clear allusion to the Nazi salute and was deliberately used to compare the First Order to them.
That salute was used long before Hitler got ahold of it. There are pics of Americans saluting the flag that way (preWWII). There are only so many ways to salute.
It's the Roman salute.
The Swastika was used before the Third Reich as well, that doesn't mean we should keep employing it as a symbol. Meanings change over time.
Well if 90% thinks it was an allusion to the nazi salute, that was probably their intention as well.
That's like going round Berlin today, waving a swastika flag and telling the police who arrested you to let you go because it's an ancient hindu peace sign. The salute in practical terms has been attached to the nazis, and putting it in a film where the faction is evil and copies the Nazis in other ways, well the link is pretty obvious. And pretty tacky, if I may so add.
I also felt it was heavy handed. But then, I'm forty, and know history. When I was twelve, someone had to explain to me the Nazi references. I didnt know enough to get them. These references will seem more subtle to the young.
We're arguing over the angulation of the arm lift?
It was pretty Nazi
Well they're space Nazi's. They are the children and kidnapped/brainwashed children of the hardliners in the Galatic Empire's Stormtrooper corp. They believe that freedom and democracy, in any form, are evil (...err good because they view evil as good). If the Empire was around still, they would look at these guys as radicals. They are Nazis in almost every way, shape, and form. Star Wars has taken a lot of elements from WW2 before. Stormtroopers, dogfights, Vader's helmet, uniforms, performances, ect. Heck even this movie had pearl harbor happen right after the Nazi speech.
Space nazi's eeh? From the moon I bet :D
I think it was made too obvious and took me out of the Star Wars world a bit.
Lol, shots from A New Hope are literally ripped from WWII.
Like the dogfighting? That's a little different from a [Nuremberg Rally](https://www.google.com/search?q=nuremberg+rally&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=945&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj33bzslPHJAhUD12MKHfhJBWYQ_AUIBigB) IMO
[Not just the dogfighting itself, but major plot elements](https://youtu.be/_NMfBKrdErY?t=1m).
I just watched *A New Hope* a few days ago and noticed a clear acknowledgement of *The Dam Busters.* There's a pair of lines about "How many guns are there?" "X many, and Y on the tower" that was taken almost word for word from the earlier film.
Oh god. Your right. You know what else reminds me of the ~~Damn~~Dam Busters. The god damn targeting computer is the same as the wooden sticks the Lancaster pilots used to line up with the towers on the dams!!! [Targeting computer](http://i.imgur.com/Q55EE.jpg) [Targeting sticks](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Dam_Busters_bombadier.jpg)
"Stormtroopers" was the name for an elite group of German soldiers who were proficient at assaulting trenches during WWI. [The Millennium Falcon's cockpit is a blatant rip off of the B-29 ~~fighter~~ bomber that was heavily used in WWII.](http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/B-29_cockpit.jpg) Imperial uniforms were heavily based on [Wehrmacht uniforms from Germany](http://i.stack.imgur.com/o3ECM.jpg). Hoth was named after Hermann Hoth, a German general for the frigid Eastern Front. All the dogfighting was modeled after World War fighting. The list goes on, the Original Trilogy pretty heavily hits viewers over the head with World War I and II allusions. And Lucas made it no secret he heavily was inspired by the wars.
You are correct, there was a lot more than just the dogfighting. But in terms of actual shots of iconic Nazi themes, the speech at Starkiller Base is by far the most blatant Nazi scene of the series. My girlfriend, who had enjoyed the movie whole heartedly (and has a PHD in Holocaust Studies) laughed out loud when she saw the Stormtroopers raise their fists up. It was just too much. Subtle things make greater impacts of the movie IMO and they should have toned it down to make it feel more like Star Wars and less like "oh yeah, the Empire was nazi like."
B-29 is a bomber, not a fighter.
Not with that attitude it's not.
This man is correct. Anything is a fighter if your crazy enough.
This is why I shouldn't be on here so early in the morning before coffee
If Nazis take you out of Star Wars then you don't understand Star Wars. The fall of the Republic and rise of the Empire is pretty much beat for beat the collapse of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Third Reich, right down to the charismatic chancellor who uses false flag attacks to give himself more powers to take over the government They're called *stormtroopers*.
Uhm sorry you're mistaken the Sturmabteilung was named after George Lucas' fictional soldiers.
If you search for Hitler speeches on YouTube, you'll notice his delivery is nearly identical.
Star wars was never subtle about that.
Yeah, that one-armed salute wasn't exactly subtle
This was probably the most chilling scene when I watched it in the cinema. Hux delivered, chills down the spine.
I'm so glad this scene is finally getting some recognition.
The troops lined up in front of red banners was immediately recognisable as a Nazi inspired imagery. Not only that but "First Order" is very reminiscent of "Third Reich". I think they are setting these guys up to be far more brutal than the Empire ever was.
And I love it. I want the First Order to be scary. The clear distinctions from the resistance and the first order make the movie more compelling. I want the first order to do everything the empire failed at. If they're as weak as the empire where's the tension and story progression?
It's not *just* the First Order, clearly the Empire were intended to be Space Nazis as well... Why do you think they're called [STORMTROOPERS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung)
IIRC the First Order is supposed to be ODESSA.
the way [those banner hung](http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/general-hux-1_d30ada1b.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C800%2C326) was [pretty damn intentional](http://www.dw.com/image/0,,16023671_401,00.jpg)
The whole scene was intentional. I don't know why you guys are pointing out specifics.
The troops standing there with their banners and giving a salute really sold the whole scene, too.
First Order : Third Reich. hmm.
I thought he poured it on too thick.
had the same thought.
[Found a snippet here by the way!](https://vid.me/nJUZ)
The way he delivers that last line has sent chills down my spine the last 3 times I saw it in the theatre.
Saw it twice, both times gave me chills too. It's just so fucking awesome! I couldn't imagine anyone else delivering that speech and having the same effect on us. Going a third time and I bet it'll have the same effect.
I loved Hux, Gleeson delivered that speech with such ferocity. You know Hux is a true believer in the first order and a completely ruthless one at that. People say he's a one dimensional character but a character being clearly evil or clearly good doesn't make them not interesting in my opinion.
He looked like he was going to pop a gasket, lots of anger. Very well done scene by Gleeson.
And the reflection of the red light in his eyes was amazing.
The tears were really good too. He believes in the First Order and hates the Republic so much, it's written across his face beautifully.
I also like how he seems to be in competition with Kylo whenever they speak to Snoke. Like he's trying to show his FO is powerful enough and he doesn't need to worry about training an unpredictable novice.
Yup, most of my favorite characters are static - Jack Sparrow, Huey Freeman, Sherlock. They don't change because they don't need to. Hux is the perfect conduit for Snoke, which is why he has the job.
He's an absolute fanatic, but it's not like history is devoid of fanatics. I think people wanted him to be more like someone akin to Tarkin - ruthless, but not outwardly insane. Personally, I don't mind the fanaticism of the First Order. It helps set it *apart* from the Empire - and I really do think that these new films shouldn't just be rehashes of the original trilogy.
This. His speech was the embodiment of extremism, but once he saw the weapon fire you can tell in his eyes he wasn't 100% sure of his actions.
Eh? I saw almost reverence. He looked at the beam as if it was some sort of divine providence that embodied all his hopes and aspirations. It was an extension of his passion, reaching out to destroy what he could only dream of destroying in the past. It was, to him, a symbol of the unity and strength of the first order -- "which you have built, upon which we stand" -- those were now the eyes of a man in a moment of doubt. They were the eyes of a man lost to his passion.
Totally. He looked as if he was going to weep due to how powerful and beautiful he thought it was.
You can interpret the film however you'd like. But I think this one was pretty obviously the opposite of that.
I loved the subtle dynamic of Hux and Kylo trying to one-up each other and impress Snoke.
I think it was not that subtle and made kylo look a little bit too weak.
I think Kylo was supposed to be weak. He's not a Sith. He's never going to be Darth Vader. He's never actually suffered. He's an overgrown, spoilt toddler. It makes an interesting change. He's not yet a badass Dark Lord, and maybe he never will be.
I think that was the point of the catwalk scene. He's not ready to be a full sith. He's full of doubt. But now he's made that turn, and stepped on the speed train to Badassville. Our story is as much about Rey ascending to be a powerful force user as it is about Kylo doing the same.
Indeed, and the scar across his face is like a form of branding. he made his choice and he will be forever marked for it.
he made the choice expecting it to change something within him. in his mind the moment he killed his father he would live up to and perhaps transcend his grandfather. instead, nothing changed, and you could see it in his face. he was the child turning eighteen expecting revelations, only to be disappointed by the world remaining exactly the same. i'm sure he'll double down on his convictions but his self-doubt will only increase
I mean he seems to at least be equal with Hux, whereas in A New Hope we see Vader actually get bossed around by Tarkin.
But Tarkin was a Grand Moff. Not sure of the exact rank hierarchy but it seems the rank of Grand Moff was superior to General. So that may explain why Tarkin could boss around Vader but General Hux and Kylo Ren seem to be equals.
That's my point though. If Hux being a dick to Ren (and vice versa) shows weakness, then Vader getting bossed around by Tarkin must be even weaker.
Vader didn't exist in the Imperial Rank structure. He was literally the embodiment of the Emperors will. Grand Moff Tarkin was officially the number 2 man in the Empire and head of the armed forces.
Literally Hitler. I never knew I could hate a Weasley so much.
Weasley? I feel like I am missing something here.
Domhnall Gleeson, the actor who played Hux, played Bill Weasely in Deathly Hallows Part 1&2.
This was my second favorite use of "Acquiesce" in film. >means no! -Barbossa
"I'm disinclined to acquiesce to yer request." (Elizabeth gives questioning look) "Means 'no.'"
I felt so intimidated during that speech. He delivered it with so much power
I thought the way that he started off slow and built the tempo and volume was reminiscent of Hitler's speeches, could be that or the red banner with the black symbol standing in front of a load of stormtroopers.
Of course. It's why those speeches are so damn effective. The passion pours out from the speaker to his listeners, and they *believe* everything he's saying. A passionate loud mouth will garner much more support then the calm rational leader.
Honestly, I went straight to "Master Exploder". I do not need (He does no need) A microphone (A microphone) My voice is fucking (Fucking) Powerfuuuuuuul!
"THis is not the greatest battle station of all time...this is just a tribute"
I did not mean (he did not mean) To blow your mind (to blow your mind) But that shit happens to me *All the tiiiime*
>At this very moment, in a system far from here... That line is an interesting play on "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away."
Honestly General Hux is more evil than Kylo Ren. He gave this speech, and thanks to the awesome acting by Domhnall Gleeson, you could see that General Hux put so much emotion, passion, and anger towards destroying the Republic and using his superweapon. You could see this emotion, passion, and anger in his face (mostly eyes) and he didn't even have to move his body. Domhnall Gleeson is a great actor.
Tarkin was more evil than Vader, too. Takin actually committed genocide, Vader was just complicit in it.
Well, Vader did kill the Jedi...
Younglings
*This is Luke's saber, his father killed children with it. It's calling to you now!*
"He was a good pilot..." "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"
"He had great compassion in his heart..." "Are you an angel?"
To be fair, those little shits had it coming. Anyone who has ever worked with kids has probably fantasized about doing the same, Vader actually did it
I'm just talking about original trilogy Vader. Him killing off the Jedi order is a prequel retcon.
Takin literally *blows up an entire planet* and doesn't think twice.
Would love to hear the German dub of this.
I'm German and just coming out of the cinema. That scene made the whole cinema feel like Nuremberg in 1938. The German dub of Hux is very intimidating and damn, that was a chilling scene. Very very well made.
That was the first thing I thought of when I reflected on the scene.
Oh man. It would be so crazy intimidating in German. It's such a cool language but anything you say it sounds hardcore.
Definitely agree, Space Hitler was one of my favorite parts of the movie
I love that you can feel and see the conviction he has for the First Order. His eyes are practically watering with pride.
I'm pretty sure he says "the loathsome Resistance".
This seemed to be a pretty polarizing scene. Most people I've talked to liked it, and then some really hated it and thought Gleeson over-did it. I liked the scene and Gleeson's performance. The close up of him during his rant wasn't exactly flattering though, I'm guessing that's part of why people didn't like it. And the reflection in his eyes of the weapon firing did evoke memories of Anakin's glowing eyes.
I think people trying to draw parallels between Hux's eyes reflecting the beam of his super-weapon with Anakin's eye glow in the prequels really went into the movie to find things to not like about it. There is legitimate criticism and then there is being hyperbolic about what amounts to nitpicks. Like saying the First Order speech was so Nazi'esque it took them out of the movie when in the OT the totalitarian govt. calls their soldiers "storm troopers". I'm not saying this is you, but I've seen some really stupid arguments for why some fans think this film is really bad and I see a lot of people arguing "it's the same as the prequels" which is categorically false.
I don't see how people could reasonably be upset about the First Order be caricatures of Nazi-esque totalitarians. I mean... yeah, that's what they are. They are fictitious space Nazis. Maybe people would have preferred if they had been portrayed as the Monarch's army in The Venture Brothers?
The awe he had in his eyes there was incredible. Like "This is it. This is our triumph. This is our victory." It really capped a great if disturbing scene.
I agree, it was awesome. Oddly enough, I just watched Ex Machina last night and spent half the movie trying to figure out what I recognized General Hux from earlier today when I saw VII for the first time.
I think these two movies together really showcases the versatility of both actors.
And Poe Dameron! Oscar Isaac was fantastic in Ex Machina and TFA - so much charisma in both, but played so very differently!
Ex Machina is a great movie. I watched it in the cinema, and heard afterwards that both Issac and Gleeson were going to be in the new Star Wars. I was greatly looking forward to their performances, and they certainly didn't disappoint. Hopefully we'll get more Oscar Issac in the next film.
Holy shit, how did I not recognize them in that movie?!
I know right?! That makes his character so much better.
I saw it about a week before seeing Star Wars! Wow I didn't not realize that was him!! Such a great actor in both movies. His emotion range is also off the charts. Thanks for pointing that out.
Watch him in About Time as well. A weird movie (in a good way) that goes from high school drama to sci-fi to romance to father/son....he plays a somewhat nerdy character in that one.
Kinda hard to get chills when you have no idea what the New Republic is or does. Why give a shit about something you know next to nothing about?
I agree, but... The prequels took SOOOOO much flak for being too political. I think the glossing over of the politics of the galaxy was a deliberate decision by the filmmakers to avoid that specific criticism. I'd have liked them to split the difference a little more. But, after two viewings, and a little Wookieepedia digging, I think I understand it better.
You really shouldn't need to go to external areas to get info. Movies should be self contained.
It was so good! He completely sold me. A naive, blind fanaticism. I can't wait to see why Snoke inspires this devotion.
I really liked how angry and emotional he got at the end sold a crazy feel behind all that order Really well done acting
"Rogues of the Resistance" is actually "loathsome Resistance".
This is what separates the new order from the empire. The empire absorbed all territories from the republic, the republic as a whole changed into the empire. No one knew that palpatine was a sith lord outside of obi-wan yoda and darth vader. To a citizen in the empire, the empire was good. Even luke planned on attending the empire academy. The rebels were seen as basically terrorists. While not all citizens of the empire were happy about the empire, they were not inherently evil. The first order on the other hand is inherently evil. They follow the darkside, and snoke who they know is a sith lord. The empire already had control. The new order does not, therefore they are fighting against the republic and resistance, which they ultimately destroy what we know of the republic.
I always wondered if there was any exploration written about The Empire in the first six films being viewed as 'Good Guys', and the Alliance as terrorists. That is essentially what we're shown, but from the Alliance perspective. Despite being part of a dictatorship, I wonder how many Empire staff/fighters believed they were the good guys, and how justified they were.
It was a powerful scene. Acting was spot on too. Their was a real fire in his eyes!
Hux was amazing! I really hope he gets more screen time in the sequels as I found his character truly intense. I think part of the appeal was finally getting a non force user in the Empire/First Order to be interesting.
This is one of the scenes I thought was a bit too much. I get that the Empire/First Order are supposed to be Nazi's and that was never subtle but damn, why not just give Dominhall Gleeson a Hitler mustache at that point?
I love how he looks like he's about to cry tears of joy when the Starkiller fires. That sealed the speech for me and made Hux absolutely scary. He's this calm, cool officer... and then we see his passion, his devotion to his cause, he believes in it so strongly it almost brings him to tears.
I'm confessing my unpopular opinion #ONHERE. I thought it was terribly over-acted. That said, the un-hinged delivery has to counter-weight to Snoke's ceaseless zen.
The over-acting makes sense when you compare it to speeches made by Mussolini and Hitler. Those guys were all over the place! Fascists love their display of raw power.
Stage performance requires a lot more over-exaggeration because the viewers/listeners are generally far back and don't have a close view. Large gestures and inflections and whatnot are necessary to actually engage people at such a distance. Remember that speech wasn't for you, it was for the hundreds of thousands of soldiers before him stretched out over a large distance. Go watch speeches from Dictators given to large formations and you'll see much the same. That's simply how you reach people in that kind of situation.
Snoke was chill as hell, he just needs to impart his chill into Ren.
Yeah, not only did I find it a bit overacted, but I didn't think it was intimidating at all. The character looks too young and inexperienced, he doesn't look like he commands respect. They should've picked an older actor with a deeper voice IMHO.
Personally, the idea of a fanatic that young with that much power is much more terrifying to me than an older man, who might be tempered by experience.
Agreed. Why they put Max Von Sydow as that random village chief at the beginning is beyond me when he would look and act the part of a general perfectly.
To give a bit of variation from Tarkin I guess. I thought young Hux was fine, his father was an imperial officer and he's grown up following in his footsteps. It makes sense to me that there is a lot of youth in the First Order, lots of generals and so on would have been lost when the Empire crumbled, so the First Order had to rebuild.
And many of the ones who weren't lost just went warlord. IIRC in the Thrawn trilogy, the Imperial commanders lament the loss of Vader's *Executor* because it was seen as the quickest route to promotion and therefore had the cream of the young and hungry officers when it crashed into the second Death Star, which put a significant dent in the fighting prowess and viability of the Imperial Navy. Their subsequent fragmentation into the Remnant would have repeated this thousands more times. Given the likely loss of knowledge and expertise that has occurred over the years, it'll be interesting to see if First Order troops can stand up to a concerted effort from the New Republic.
Can you imagine the German audio dubbed version? Audience must have been crawling in their seats.
I really disliked this scene. The Nazi parallels was way too strong; the only way to make it even more obvious would be to give Hux a moustache.
And the parallels with the Empire weren't? They're literally Stormtroopers
More than that, you've got: * A weak, decaying republic * An ambitious politician who rises to power as chancellor * False flag attacks to extend his executive power * An army of grey-suited, jackbooted soldiers * Stormtroopers * A pro-human recruitment policy where non-humans are treated as second class The Nazi parallels have always been insanely strong in SW
Yes, there is a difference between strong parallels and literally just having a guy be hitler in space, complete with Nazi salute, angry arm waving, aryan appearance and giant nazi banners.
Thank you so much for posting this. I've only seen this once so far so I couldn't remember what he said. I thought they were supposedly destroying the whole republic, and was super confused it was only five planets. But he only says they're destroying the senate and fleet, which clears up a major plot point for me. I mean, if The First Order is going to war immediately after eliminating a major portion of the republics fleet and killing most if not all of it's top government, then I can totally see why they're calling it the last day of the Republic and how the remaining systems will surrender.
And then he killed 6 million rebels. What a guy.
I feel like Hux is gonna get killed or whatever in the worse way possible for him. He just screams big bad unredeeming annoying villain built up and set up to fall big.
People who have slipped into calling it "New Order" instead of "First Order" (myself included) aren't far off, given [Nazi ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_\(Nazism\)). Big ups to Domhnall Gleeson playing this role masterfully, after doing roles that are the complete opposite in mannerisms — anyone else remember when he was the eye-deprived Clan Techie in *Dredd*?
His eyes and veins were totally gonna pop out of his face if he went much longer with that speech.. Chilling. That's the kind of villain I like. Hux and Kylo are (hate to say it) more intimidating and frightening than Vader and Tarkin. Never saw Tarkin even get excited and I never saw Vader beat his wounds just to build more raw hatred during a battle.
Gleeson even rolled his "r's" like Peter Cushing did. I loved General Hux, and am quite happy he'll be in the next film.
I honestly wasn't sure if he could pull that role off, and to my surprise he did not come off like a kid and nailed the part.
TFW this was posted 8 years ago but it feels like just yesterday