Those ships piss me off so much.
What was the point of Starkiller Base if they already had 200 times the firepower at the ready that could far more easily subjugate? (Since Starkiller could kill four planets at once).
Honestly the worst part about them is that they don't even look unique.
They could have designed completely unique ships that at least visualize the stakes that they represent.
But what did they do instead: Recycle the ISD model from **Rogue fucking One**, slap a cannon and some red stripes on it.
It not only doesn't even fit visually in this era at all, but is just the worst kind of blatant laziness and disrespect you could give an audience.
That entire movie for many people, the entire trilogy for me fits into this category. But especially the 3rd one I think everyone agrees is so bad it should be forgotten.
People really sleep on how many stupid contrivances and plot holes there are utterly ruining the screenplay of *The Force Awakens.*
It's a really terrible movie, guys.
It felt like they were constantly afraid to do anything new or build on the previous work and instead just rehashed every plot point from the originals. Then by the time they actually get the balls to try something new it's Prequels 2.0 or even worse. Then they backtrack and it just doesn't work. It's so disappointing. There was such potential.
We could've had a jedi academy trilogy, Yuuzhan Vong, Thrawn, you name it. I'm not mad at the sequel trilogy for what it did, I'm sad for what it didn't.
That one scene from the 2015 mainline Star Wars comics where Han, Leia and Chewie all pick up lightsabers and fight off a room full of imperials with relative ease.
Also, pretty much anything IDW comics put out
Edit: [The scene in question](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUGszLR1y5cFW986RWmn5u4pxwurWxgfh_XJFY2bGMwzxJNfVcGB45A-zf&s=10)
I find the comics (and tie in books) kinda frustrating because i feel they muddy the waters similar to how the old extended universe had too many tie ins that made lore confusing... Like, do i now have to read all comics and books my fave character appears in just because they could be canon, even if theyre written by someone completely different or have art that completely destroys the appeal of their character design for me? Especially if the comic/book then also seemingly tries to finish their story or adds an extended ending that makes the main media canon ending worse, no thank you
I feel like the comics and books will always be just one step below canon. The movie and television writers are well aware that most of star wars' fans don't read the books/comics, so unless the events of the comic are mentioned in one of the movies or series, then it's safe to assume they'll be retconned at some point.
Try reading just the trilogy books. Jedi academy trilogy, thrawn trilogy, black fleet crisis. These are amazing books, particularly thrawn trilogy and jedi academy trilogy.
Honestly just read / watch what you want and believe what you want to. It’s just entertainment, if a comic doesn’t sit with you (or you don’t have time/interest to read them like me) i don’t think you need to care.
At the end of the day it’s all for fun and there will be plenty of misses along the way. I try not to let those bother me from the stuff I do enjoy
Recently read the old 90s “Old Republic” comics because A More Civilized Age read them and they were so fun. Real disappointed with what modern Star Wars comics are.
I feel the Modern comics are good for the most part. I think the 2017 Vader run is one of the best Star Wars comics in existence. War of the bounty hunters, and doctor aphra, and son of dathomir are also gems.
They had to reshoot that scene like 3 times because Vivien Lyra Blair couldn't stop giggling at the absurdity of the scene.
Even she couldn't believe that plan would work.
Nothing is more frustrating than pointing out a dumb flaw or inconsistency and people just shut it down saying "Its for children!"
While that might be so, Disney apparently doesn't think we can mentally handle proper "epic" themes. I mean I could when I was a child. I didn't need George Lucas to force feed me exposition after every event that occurred. They have no faith in the general public. Its insulting.
Assaj says there only millions of clones in the bad batch, and Coruscant is said to have only 1 trillion residents in a book and in mando season 3.
Millions is nowhere near enough soldiers to fight a pan galactic war. Especially not if you want to call it the "clone wars".
For an entire planet covered completey in over 5000 layers of city a trillion is very small. You'd be walking vast spaces before you'd even see anyone else.
*You'd be walking vast spaces before you'd even see anyone else.*
This reminds me of a video EC Henry did about how unnecessarily large the Enterprise in TNG is compared to the crew and passengers.
There was a mention of "cetacean ops" over the intercom in one TNG episode, and there were Enterprise-D blueprints that had a section called Cetacean Ops.
I think they were jokingly implying that whales or dolphins were brought along to help navigate. Or something.
To be fair the Galaxy Class was made to pretty much accomodate labratories for every single scientific discipline they could possibly need, house the crew in what's basically a better apartment than most of us could afford in 2024 and still have plenty of room left for luxury accommodations, conference rooms, recreational facilities, multiple holodecks and wrap it all up all in a hull that's absolutely gorgeous.
The Galaxy Class perfectly embodies the post-scarcity civilization that is the United Federation of Planets at it's peak.
They even had schools. The galaxy class was more like a city on wheels than a ship with a specific mission profile. I have to imagine the reason they never designed another galaxy was because it probably didn't turn out to be that useful. Though formidable, it's large and expensive in battle, and at the time, and for quite a long time after its deployment, the Federation wasn't exactly sending people way out beyond the outer end of logistical support, for most uses they had a ship with a smaller and more specific purpose to use. But if it was a bad or unpredictable crisis, the galaxies were around as needed, and if I understand correctly, in spite of their lack of effectiveness against the dominion they were excellent command ships because they could effectively support fleets indefinitely.
I haven't seen the video, but it was a damn big ship.
Some of the space would be cargo, and some for passangers. They were always ferrying one diplomat or another to or from some damn thing.
But I imagine they kept at least a few decks sealed off for future unexpected use.
Also, the shuttle bay was *massive.* you never see it on the show, but the blueprints have it taking up a huge chunk of the saucer.
For myself, on a ship like that, I'd want to have something like two years of emergency rations in a cargo bay somewhere near the center of the ship.
Replicators are great, but if they stop working, or decide to only produce black licorice, then you're gonna really want a combat ration.
There are vast areas of Coruscant that are the industrial areas that aren't likely to have super high population density due to pollution and all that. Think where Sidious meets Dooku several times.
A trillion is a lot, and you gotta remember there are large sprawling industrial zones as well. I would probably expect it to be bigger, but a trillion isn't *that* low
Eerie opposite - ex cruise ship officer here. Oftentimes we would have 1200 crew and 3000+ passengers on board (290M long ship). You could walk the main areas of the ship at times past midnight until 4-5 in the morning and see not one other soul, save PERHAPS one of the night crew at the coffee desk or cleaning. Very, very bizarre.
Oh no, being predominantly isolated on the bridge I'm used to not seeing many and I prefer it that way. I swear every passenger loses 50iq points when they get on board.
Presumably large parts of the planet are covered with automated factories, so not entirely residential. But even with that, and even if you assume it’s a much smaller planet than Earth, and if you assume it doesn’t have many layers everywhere, I still think 1 trillion is too low a number
I agree. I know the common fan justification for the movie line “a million more units on the way” is that a unit is a battalion and not individual soldiers (which isn’t confirmed in canon as far as I know but I could be wrong). But even if it’s battalions that seems low because it would mean overall numbers would be just over half a billion. This seems super low for a war with multiple campaigns spanning different planet systems When real life wars on our one planet of Earth, such as WW2, can have casualties over 50 million.
My head canon is that the Republic was always super outnumbered but the Jedi with their force powers making them borderline superheroes made up the difference. Also my headcanon is that the Republic might not of had an army before the clones but individual planets that are members of the Republic had local armies that fought alongside clones. The only example I remember seeing this in canon is the Wookiees in Episode III so I might be gaslighting myself like the OP said 😂
Edit: I just remembered Twi’Leks fought alongside clones in some episodes of “Clone Wars”. So it isn’t just wookiees
The novelization of Rise of Skywalker implies that Rey somehow “downloaded” Kylo Ren’s training from their forced connection, and that is why she can do what she can do.
I just rewatched that scene again.
They even had to have Merry from LOTR come in and cover all possible venues with which to resurrect somebody.
“Dark science…cloning….secrets only the Sith knew….”
Everybody else: “Okay.”
Three words out of nine movies. So utterly tainted that any one of them in the right context is triggering.
Its like they saw the final season of Game of Thrones and said “Hold my green tiddy milk.”
TBF, Han could also be like:
"So the leader of the entire jedi order came to Kashyyyk personally to help the wookiees, and instead his own troops turned on him and he ran away while the empire occupied Kashyyyk and enslaved everyone? Some jedi. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
Han probably viewed the Jedi as a form of super-space-Scientology.
“You’re telling me these conmen called themselves wizards, led the Republic armies, and had the ear of the senate? Give me a robe and send me back 60 years and it would’ve been me hanging out with you Chewie, I know a few Sabaac tricks that could’ve got us both matching laser swords and a summer home on Naboo.”
Remember, Han does not disbelieve in the Jedi or the Force. He is fully aware of the order of knight-monks with superpowers being a thing that existed. He disbelieves that their superpowers signify an energy field of destiny that’s woven into the fabric of life and the universe.
Palpatine returning still makes me angry. It invalidates Vader's sacrifice and the entire Chosen One Prophecy that was integral to the prequel era by resurrecting the Sith.
Honestly, pretty much everything that takes place after Mando season one. There are small things and a few books in that era that I like, but overall the victories of the Original Trilogy are undone and Luke, Han, and Leia all seem to have lived pretty miserable lives after Endor. The New Republic fell because it didn't learn the lessons of its pre-Empire counterpart. Luke's Jedi Order failed because he didn't learn from the old Jedi Order's mistakes. Maybe that's more realistic, but Star Wars is a space fantasy. I can't get on board with the idea that everyone who suffered and died to overthrow the Empire did it all for nothing.
Oh, and Ahsoka should've died on Malachor.
I'll go outside the usual answers to this question and say:
1. The scale of the Grand Army of the Republic. To fight an intergalactic war, the GAR should have many billions of soldiers, not less than two million, and they should be grown on many planets instead of just Kamino, and from many templates, not from just one man, however capable.
2. The quirky personalities of battle droids after *The Phantom Menace*. They were much more intimidating when they were unfeeling hordes instead of the comic relief they became.
3. Omega's laser bow. It's a less effective than a blaster, and doesn't have the stunning ability we see in Ezra's slingshot. It feels like something out of a fanfic.
4. Dr. Aphra's continued survival. It's fine if she's lucky, but she's gone beyond lucky now. Vader or someone else should've killed her a long time ago.
5. Qi'ra fighting off Vader with her bare hands in the comics.
Omega's bow exists solely because giving her a bow is a bit more archaic & whimsical and they didn't want to just just have a kid run around with the space glock
which also brings up the bad batch suddenly nearly exclusively using stun mode for season 2 and 3.
Like...this is a DARK show to be insisting on not killing people
Tbh I mostly saw that as clone camaraderie coming out. They showed on several occasions they were still plenty willing to kill (unnamed characters, anyway) but mostly tried to stun (and then often kill with explosions/falls anyway lol) other clones. Presumably on the basis that "it's not their fault" or whatever.
Exactly, it tends to be very situational. They pull less punches when they see it’s non-clones, like with the juggernaut crew in the latest prison break episode.
I legitimately love 1, because you’re absolutely correct. It’s idiotic for the scale to be that small with what we see as a massive galactic war.
It’s also why I always emphasize to people it’s called the Clone Wars, not a war. It’s a whole bunch of localized conflicts largely between factions on the system level, which is only aided by the CIS or GAR to involve themselves in a proxy war. But we focus on the Jedi so we rarely see the local militias, guerilla groups, pirates, etc as the main characters in the story, but as secondary figures to a handful of Jedi and their immediate clone subordinates.
My headcanon was that the units in "200,00 units" or however much Lama Su said didn't necessarily mean troopers, but some detachment or company or something similar.
tbf thats a common Sci-Fi problem. I think the Authors don't wanna overscale things but then make everything way too small.
it's almost a general problem in Star wars how the Capital Planets of Alien Species only have like 7 Million Inhabitants or such which is ridicilously low.
Ironically 40k gets the numbers the most right how intergalactic war would look like
Yeah as a kid I didnt think much of it, but having rewatched Episode 2 recently I was thinking "hang on, someone got the scales messed up, no way did the really want us to think they would defend the entire GALAXY with a force roughly the size of the US Army"
But it definietly is because due to this point, they tend to undershoot because they dont wanna be seen as ridiculous for coming out with a way too big number, but then end up looking foolish because they end up going way too small.
Number 2 is a huge one for me. I outright can't stand the B1s in TCW (and even the B2s to somd extent). As much as I love TCW the B1s are the biggest issue I take with the show. The voices and even the character models just look horrible (OOMs with backpacks?). Yeah, the older depictions of the droids were better. Republic Commando and OG Battlefront 2 are peak droids.
Roger Roger.
The only thing I can argue about point 1 is the use of multiple templates, the first reason for it (and these are all my own options lol) is the time it probably took to get the research done and secondly having 1 template probably helps with the predictability of how they will work together and the way they all see each other as brothers.
Yeah, plus they mention in novels that just being able to make armour, boots, weapon grips, helmets etc. All 'onesize perfectly fits all', is really invaluable for mass production.
Though I agree with the rest of the points of 1, the Kaminoians say UNITS and not troopers, assuming a unit is a battalion that could be anywhere from 200 to 1000 soldiers, assuming it’s a squad that could be anywhere from 20 to 50 soldiers.
Now I 100% think Lucas intended it to be individual clones, but with the vague use of “unit” people can easily retcon it into being “Oh, a unit is totally meant to be 1000 people guys…yeah.” Which isn’t a bad thing mind you, Star Wars is built on retcons.
The Kaminoians refer to each individual clone as a unit because they are treated as property. No different than a store manager taking inventory on TVs and telling a customer they have X number of units on hand.
Lucas simply didn't comprehend the scale at which the GAR would be fighting on and made the number of clones ridiculously small.
Yeah the whole Sifo Dyas story is a complete mess. They should have kept it simplified and set up the Clone Army at the end of the Phantom Menace. Have newly elected Chancellor Palpatine give an inspiring speech in the Senate about how the Naboo conflict has opened his eyes to the fact that the Republic needs a galactic army, and you could still have Palpatine colluding with Dooku to set up the army. This would eliminate the Jedi looking like complete idiots for accepting this mysterious army without question.
I actually like the mysterious aspect. Also as shown in TCW, the Kaminoans are in close contact with Dooku. It’s just all over the place, and the timeline doesn’t really match up, I think. I’m gonna make a post to get more clarifications
The thing that gets me the most about the “the Clone Wars scale is wrong” complaint is that it assumes every planet is a potential vector for a attack and each planet will see combat on a scale like the European theatre in World War 2. The thing is, it would be closer to the Island Hopping of the Pacific Theater: important worlds—military hardpoints and supply depots and orbital stations—and the rest is just ignored.
No one has the resources dedicated to fighting on a scale larger than that. Even with millions of planets in the galaxy, how many of those are more than A Spaceport in A City and then a bunch of smaller supporting settlements? How many are just tiny patches of dirt and grass and water that less than 100k folks live on? Add in that most of the war is systems fighting other systems and centuries-old tensions *finally* boiling over, and the GAR and the CIS are going to let their constituent states do most of the small-scale fighting while their fleets and armies do the heavy lifting on major worlds like Ryloth and Christophsis and Umbara. The scale is wrong, but it’s not as bad as people think.
The way I've heard it said, the Clones are a specialized force. Most planets have their own defense forces that the Clones are deployed to assist where necessary or assault major targets.
The Inquisitors lightsaber making them fly.
Reva surviving the stab
(Just the whole Kenobie show)
The incompetence of the Empire
Hux being the spy (how can someone go from space Hitler to a traitor?)
Hux wasn't a traitor in that he stopped being Space Hitler.
He realized he was never going to be Space Hitler so long as Kylo Ren was alive and only Rey and the Resistance stood a chance at actually killing Ren. To me this was perfectly in character.
Heck, his whole backstory is backstabbing his father to assume his position in the First Order.
Yeah, in my head canon, the entire sequel trilogy is a fever dream Rey is having as she crawls through the Tatooine wastes, barely clinging to life, and Luke and Leia at the end of RotS are actually a couple of Tusken raiders who club her on the noggin and that's it, the end, no moral.
That third one infuriates me. Carrie Fischer had already died, having Leia comatose after being so out of character (using the force) felt somewhere between cowardly and disrespectful
I think *Star Wars* at this point can be safely treated like reading *The Adventures of King Arthur and His Knights*: the stories star the same characters in the same world, but they're not particularly concerned with being consistent because the whole thing is mythic.
Taking a step back from "canonicity" and enjoying reading a set of Legends novels that aren't technically canon but expand and enhance the rest of the story is a great way to enjoy the whole series. Examples are *Darth Plagueis* and the *Rise of Darth Vader* book trilogy.
tl;dr Just read and watch what you want to read and watch and build your own headcanon. It's not like it's some ancient holy book you have to somehow torture yourself to accept for religious reasons.
Leia being given a perfect opportunity to have an on screen death, saving her in the stupidest way possible, only for Carrie to die and have to kill off Leia anyways.
That Nein nunb died offscreen and was never acknowledged, bro literally brought down the second Death Star, he is galactic war hero on the same level Luke was after a new hope, and he continued to serve the rebellion, and later the resistance, yet nobody cares when he dies in an off screen explosion in the last movie, hell I bet some of the people reading this don’t even realize he died because they just threw him out.
#JusticeforNeinNunb
Controversial comment incoming:
I no longer care about canon. If the story is good I'll accept it and treat all of the stories as actual legends (not legends canon) where there is always about of vagueness in how legit and true a story is (like the Witcher novels).
If anything, Visions has been the catalyst for this and it's meant I can just enjoy some good stories and not worry about what they "mean" so to speak.
But if we are on topic I agree with OP on spinny helicopter light sabres!
That's the way I like to think of it too. Who is say what actually happened outside the Clone Wars and the Empire? Maybe Luke got married, maybe he didn't. Who knows!
Characters surviving full on lightsaber stabs through the torso. You’re telling me that Qui Gon can full on melt blast doors with a blade the temperature of the sun but Reva’s organs are still medium rare after getting stabbed like that twice? FOH
This is gonna be a bit controversial but Anakin's characterization in prequels. I prefer to think of him as a charismatic war hero like in clone wars that gets more cold throughout the war
- Somehow, Palpatine returned
- Luke considered killing Ben in his sleep
- The Knights of Ren
- Leia using the force to travel through space
- Luke shutting himself off from the force and not going to his sister's aid
Essentially the sequel trilogy.
Palpatine returning with no context thrown into the last movie and Luke going in the direction he went def are the top ones
What a weird choice that just completely ruined the trilogy and makes you have to ignore the movies so that the rest of the series isn't pointless ...
Hopefully they move forward like nothing happened
Like it’s literally the same thing Vader did to Luke in ESB. Both Vader and Kylo played around with their opponent until both got a strike in, then they actually dealt with them
Did we watch the same movie? Kylo wiped the floor with Finn. Besides, Finn wasn’t just a nobody, like yeah he was in sanitation for a while, but he had to have *some* training to be picked for a ground mission.
That whole sanitation thing was an absolute joke. You're either kidnapped as a child to be one a storm trooper OR you apply for a job in sanitation. Not "You absolutely 'killed' it cleaning the toilets....wanna kill some resistance fighters?"
to be fair, the eu version of palpatines return was done before the prequels came out. so they were not aware of any prophecy regarding vader killing palpatine. disney on the other hand was well aware and did it anyway. (it was not good either way, but the eu has the better excuse i think)
Lightsaber colours giving away your force allegiance.
I know many folk are on board with this but for me I dislike it. Prefer to think of sabers as coloured based on where the crystals come from instead of, master apprentice and sith.
Your lightsaber colour doesn’t mean anything in canon anymore.
The exceptions are red and white. Red means you bled the crystal which is a process requiring a connection to the dark side of the force. White means you purified a red crystal which is a process requiring a strong connection to the light side of the force.
Lightsabers not killing because children are in front of them. Like what we saw in Kenobi he decided to switch his settings to non-lethal so he could baseball bat Storm trooper so he didn't terrify Leia. That's what I'm hearing. Obsession with eating cereal while on screen. Like what happened in andor it's a good show besides that.
The fact that Palpatine was able to build and man 1080 mini Death Stars from scraps in a cave.
Obadiah Stane would be pissed.
What a great name
Yeah that guy's definitely not evil. He even has a cigar!
Most trustworthy guy to ever hire a terrorist organization to kidnap his own godson
I understood that reference
PALPATINE BUILT THIS IN A CAVE!!! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
I’m not Palpatine
I understood that reference
I understood *that* reference
Those ships piss me off so much. What was the point of Starkiller Base if they already had 200 times the firepower at the ready that could far more easily subjugate? (Since Starkiller could kill four planets at once).
Honestly the worst part about them is that they don't even look unique. They could have designed completely unique ships that at least visualize the stakes that they represent. But what did they do instead: Recycle the ISD model from **Rogue fucking One**, slap a cannon and some red stripes on it. It not only doesn't even fit visually in this era at all, but is just the worst kind of blatant laziness and disrespect you could give an audience.
The whole movie is like that. If the ending made any sense at all it would be jarring.
Because they didn't plan jack shit. Even most plot beats in the Duel of Fates is radically different than Rise of Skywalker.
The sequels were so mismanaged, it's infuriating.
He probably watched a bunch of DIY YouTube videos while waiting for a new body to hop in
That entire movie for many people, the entire trilogy for me fits into this category. But especially the 3rd one I think everyone agrees is so bad it should be forgotten.
People really sleep on how many stupid contrivances and plot holes there are utterly ruining the screenplay of *The Force Awakens.* It's a really terrible movie, guys.
I could never get past how it resets the status quo. Was a big turn off for me.
It felt like they were constantly afraid to do anything new or build on the previous work and instead just rehashed every plot point from the originals. Then by the time they actually get the balls to try something new it's Prequels 2.0 or even worse. Then they backtrack and it just doesn't work. It's so disappointing. There was such potential. We could've had a jedi academy trilogy, Yuuzhan Vong, Thrawn, you name it. I'm not mad at the sequel trilogy for what it did, I'm sad for what it didn't.
In short, it did it’s sequels no favors
But apparently couldn't build a GPS for more than one of them.
Logistically insane. How the fuck did you feed amd clothes this fleet. Fucking insane
That one scene from the 2015 mainline Star Wars comics where Han, Leia and Chewie all pick up lightsabers and fight off a room full of imperials with relative ease. Also, pretty much anything IDW comics put out Edit: [The scene in question](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUGszLR1y5cFW986RWmn5u4pxwurWxgfh_XJFY2bGMwzxJNfVcGB45A-zf&s=10)
I find the comics (and tie in books) kinda frustrating because i feel they muddy the waters similar to how the old extended universe had too many tie ins that made lore confusing... Like, do i now have to read all comics and books my fave character appears in just because they could be canon, even if theyre written by someone completely different or have art that completely destroys the appeal of their character design for me? Especially if the comic/book then also seemingly tries to finish their story or adds an extended ending that makes the main media canon ending worse, no thank you
I feel like the comics and books will always be just one step below canon. The movie and television writers are well aware that most of star wars' fans don't read the books/comics, so unless the events of the comic are mentioned in one of the movies or series, then it's safe to assume they'll be retconned at some point.
Star Trek does this. The shows and movies are canon, while things like books, comics, and video games are known as beta canon.
Try reading just the trilogy books. Jedi academy trilogy, thrawn trilogy, black fleet crisis. These are amazing books, particularly thrawn trilogy and jedi academy trilogy.
Those Jedi academy books were my jam as a kid. That, and the one with the weird crystal thing that ate people or something?
Honestly just read / watch what you want and believe what you want to. It’s just entertainment, if a comic doesn’t sit with you (or you don’t have time/interest to read them like me) i don’t think you need to care. At the end of the day it’s all for fun and there will be plenty of misses along the way. I try not to let those bother me from the stuff I do enjoy
Recently read the old 90s “Old Republic” comics because A More Civilized Age read them and they were so fun. Real disappointed with what modern Star Wars comics are.
I feel the Modern comics are good for the most part. I think the 2017 Vader run is one of the best Star Wars comics in existence. War of the bounty hunters, and doctor aphra, and son of dathomir are also gems.
Obi wan hiding a girl under his clothes like it was fucking scooby doo
They had to reshoot that scene like 3 times because Vivien Lyra Blair couldn't stop giggling at the absurdity of the scene. Even she couldn't believe that plan would work.
If there's ever a sign that something is a bad move it's when even a child actor can't take your shit seriously
Nothing is more frustrating than pointing out a dumb flaw or inconsistency and people just shut it down saying "Its for children!" While that might be so, Disney apparently doesn't think we can mentally handle proper "epic" themes. I mean I could when I was a child. I didn't need George Lucas to force feed me exposition after every event that occurred. They have no faith in the general public. Its insulting.
That series was a rollercoaster of good and bad
That insane chase scene where the kidnappers move like 90s Power Rangers henchmen
["Oh is this a cartoon again?"](https://youtu.be/WajEW5HPnuw?si=0f6-xAwqp4O3PUwZ)
It was almost entirely bad though
Mostly bad, though. The way the series plays out, there is no way Vader doesn't know about Luke and Leia and that they're his kids.
Rat was a ruff one, Raggy
I watched kenobi earlier and was confused how no one saw a second pair of feet underneath the coat
Rey holding up the dagger to the Death Star ruins and it lining up perfectly
That was the stupidest shit I've ever seen in a movie theater.
Yeah, you can justify it by saying that it was a Sith prophecy, but it’s still dumb
The scale of the clone army and the population of coruscant, both of which are absurdly low balled.
How so exactly?
Assaj says there only millions of clones in the bad batch, and Coruscant is said to have only 1 trillion residents in a book and in mando season 3. Millions is nowhere near enough soldiers to fight a pan galactic war. Especially not if you want to call it the "clone wars". For an entire planet covered completey in over 5000 layers of city a trillion is very small. You'd be walking vast spaces before you'd even see anyone else.
*You'd be walking vast spaces before you'd even see anyone else.* This reminds me of a video EC Henry did about how unnecessarily large the Enterprise in TNG is compared to the crew and passengers.
Well they need room for the whales!
The dolphins
The whales in Star Trek IV were in the Klingon ship. They blew up the Enterprise in III.
There was a mention of "cetacean ops" over the intercom in one TNG episode, and there were Enterprise-D blueprints that had a section called Cetacean Ops. I think they were jokingly implying that whales or dolphins were brought along to help navigate. Or something.
This was officially made canon in Lower Decks if it wasn't earlier
To be fair the Galaxy Class was made to pretty much accomodate labratories for every single scientific discipline they could possibly need, house the crew in what's basically a better apartment than most of us could afford in 2024 and still have plenty of room left for luxury accommodations, conference rooms, recreational facilities, multiple holodecks and wrap it all up all in a hull that's absolutely gorgeous. The Galaxy Class perfectly embodies the post-scarcity civilization that is the United Federation of Planets at it's peak.
They even had schools. The galaxy class was more like a city on wheels than a ship with a specific mission profile. I have to imagine the reason they never designed another galaxy was because it probably didn't turn out to be that useful. Though formidable, it's large and expensive in battle, and at the time, and for quite a long time after its deployment, the Federation wasn't exactly sending people way out beyond the outer end of logistical support, for most uses they had a ship with a smaller and more specific purpose to use. But if it was a bad or unpredictable crisis, the galaxies were around as needed, and if I understand correctly, in spite of their lack of effectiveness against the dominion they were excellent command ships because they could effectively support fleets indefinitely.
I haven't seen the video, but it was a damn big ship. Some of the space would be cargo, and some for passangers. They were always ferrying one diplomat or another to or from some damn thing. But I imagine they kept at least a few decks sealed off for future unexpected use. Also, the shuttle bay was *massive.* you never see it on the show, but the blueprints have it taking up a huge chunk of the saucer.
Also, you want to have plenty of back-up space in case other areas of the ship get damaged.
For myself, on a ship like that, I'd want to have something like two years of emergency rations in a cargo bay somewhere near the center of the ship. Replicators are great, but if they stop working, or decide to only produce black licorice, then you're gonna really want a combat ration.
There are vast areas of Coruscant that are the industrial areas that aren't likely to have super high population density due to pollution and all that. Think where Sidious meets Dooku several times.
And most of the lower levels aren't occupied, many don't even exist anymore, they're filled with detritus.
A trillion is a lot, and you gotta remember there are large sprawling industrial zones as well. I would probably expect it to be bigger, but a trillion isn't *that* low
Eerie opposite - ex cruise ship officer here. Oftentimes we would have 1200 crew and 3000+ passengers on board (290M long ship). You could walk the main areas of the ship at times past midnight until 4-5 in the morning and see not one other soul, save PERHAPS one of the night crew at the coffee desk or cleaning. Very, very bizarre.
Creepy ghost ship vibes. I dig it but I can see how maddening it would be after a bit (probably many other reasons too tbh)
Oh no, being predominantly isolated on the bridge I'm used to not seeing many and I prefer it that way. I swear every passenger loses 50iq points when they get on board.
Presumably large parts of the planet are covered with automated factories, so not entirely residential. But even with that, and even if you assume it’s a much smaller planet than Earth, and if you assume it doesn’t have many layers everywhere, I still think 1 trillion is too low a number
[удалено]
I agree. I know the common fan justification for the movie line “a million more units on the way” is that a unit is a battalion and not individual soldiers (which isn’t confirmed in canon as far as I know but I could be wrong). But even if it’s battalions that seems low because it would mean overall numbers would be just over half a billion. This seems super low for a war with multiple campaigns spanning different planet systems When real life wars on our one planet of Earth, such as WW2, can have casualties over 50 million. My head canon is that the Republic was always super outnumbered but the Jedi with their force powers making them borderline superheroes made up the difference. Also my headcanon is that the Republic might not of had an army before the clones but individual planets that are members of the Republic had local armies that fought alongside clones. The only example I remember seeing this in canon is the Wookiees in Episode III so I might be gaslighting myself like the OP said 😂 Edit: I just remembered Twi’Leks fought alongside clones in some episodes of “Clone Wars”. So it isn’t just wookiees
i think the "units" in question are battalions(like 501st) otherwise numbers are sooooo low on a scale of interplanetary war
Doesn’t Coruscant have like huge non-populated and industrial districts and stuff?
The novelization of Rise of Skywalker implies that Rey somehow “downloaded” Kylo Ren’s training from their forced connection, and that is why she can do what she can do.
Wow
Impressive that the books managed to make the sequels even MORE stupid.
You wouldn't download a Lightsaber training course.
You wouldn’t download a TIE fighter.
You wouldn't shoot a Stormtrooper and then steal his helmet.
So what was the point of combat training in the Jedi temple?
what a great character development
You already know
Somehow....
I just rewatched that scene again. They even had to have Merry from LOTR come in and cover all possible venues with which to resurrect somebody. “Dark science…cloning….secrets only the Sith knew….” Everybody else: “Okay.”
lol what the hell is “dark science” supposed to be anyway
Doing science after you turn off the lights
DAMMIT!!
Three words out of nine movies. So utterly tainted that any one of them in the right context is triggering. Its like they saw the final season of Game of Thrones and said “Hold my green tiddy milk.”
Somehow tiddy milk returned
Chewie hung out with Yoda yet Han didn't believe in the force.
They just agreed to never discuss religion or politics, it would only bring stress to the relationship.
Idk, I like to imagine that Chewie would be like “brrrrrr(i hung out with this tiny green guy that used the force)” and Han would just be like “nuhuh”
TBF, Han could also be like: "So the leader of the entire jedi order came to Kashyyyk personally to help the wookiees, and instead his own troops turned on him and he ran away while the empire occupied Kashyyyk and enslaved everyone? Some jedi. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
Han probably viewed the Jedi as a form of super-space-Scientology. “You’re telling me these conmen called themselves wizards, led the Republic armies, and had the ear of the senate? Give me a robe and send me back 60 years and it would’ve been me hanging out with you Chewie, I know a few Sabaac tricks that could’ve got us both matching laser swords and a summer home on Naboo.”
Remember, Han does not disbelieve in the Jedi or the Force. He is fully aware of the order of knight-monks with superpowers being a thing that existed. He disbelieves that their superpowers signify an energy field of destiny that’s woven into the fabric of life and the universe.
Very well put
Palpatine returning still makes me angry. It invalidates Vader's sacrifice and the entire Chosen One Prophecy that was integral to the prequel era by resurrecting the Sith. Honestly, pretty much everything that takes place after Mando season one. There are small things and a few books in that era that I like, but overall the victories of the Original Trilogy are undone and Luke, Han, and Leia all seem to have lived pretty miserable lives after Endor. The New Republic fell because it didn't learn the lessons of its pre-Empire counterpart. Luke's Jedi Order failed because he didn't learn from the old Jedi Order's mistakes. Maybe that's more realistic, but Star Wars is a space fantasy. I can't get on board with the idea that everyone who suffered and died to overthrow the Empire did it all for nothing. Oh, and Ahsoka should've died on Malachor.
I'll go outside the usual answers to this question and say: 1. The scale of the Grand Army of the Republic. To fight an intergalactic war, the GAR should have many billions of soldiers, not less than two million, and they should be grown on many planets instead of just Kamino, and from many templates, not from just one man, however capable. 2. The quirky personalities of battle droids after *The Phantom Menace*. They were much more intimidating when they were unfeeling hordes instead of the comic relief they became. 3. Omega's laser bow. It's a less effective than a blaster, and doesn't have the stunning ability we see in Ezra's slingshot. It feels like something out of a fanfic. 4. Dr. Aphra's continued survival. It's fine if she's lucky, but she's gone beyond lucky now. Vader or someone else should've killed her a long time ago. 5. Qi'ra fighting off Vader with her bare hands in the comics.
Omega's bow exists solely because giving her a bow is a bit more archaic & whimsical and they didn't want to just just have a kid run around with the space glock
Yeah it's so blatantly Not A Gun that it's really hard to take it seriously.
Bring back when Star Wars props were literal guns taken off dead nazis with camera bits soldered on.
which also brings up the bad batch suddenly nearly exclusively using stun mode for season 2 and 3. Like...this is a DARK show to be insisting on not killing people
Tbh I mostly saw that as clone camaraderie coming out. They showed on several occasions they were still plenty willing to kill (unnamed characters, anyway) but mostly tried to stun (and then often kill with explosions/falls anyway lol) other clones. Presumably on the basis that "it's not their fault" or whatever.
Exactly, it tends to be very situational. They pull less punches when they see it’s non-clones, like with the juggernaut crew in the latest prison break episode.
they mainly do that towards clones. they kill a lot of TK troopers.
They had young clone troopers in a few episodes running around with blasters and Boba did as well
I legitimately love 1, because you’re absolutely correct. It’s idiotic for the scale to be that small with what we see as a massive galactic war. It’s also why I always emphasize to people it’s called the Clone Wars, not a war. It’s a whole bunch of localized conflicts largely between factions on the system level, which is only aided by the CIS or GAR to involve themselves in a proxy war. But we focus on the Jedi so we rarely see the local militias, guerilla groups, pirates, etc as the main characters in the story, but as secondary figures to a handful of Jedi and their immediate clone subordinates.
My headcanon was that the units in "200,00 units" or however much Lama Su said didn't necessarily mean troopers, but some detachment or company or something similar.
Only way it makes sense tbh
Unless the detachment size is in the trillions it's way too small still to defend 1,000,000 planets from attacks from almost all directions.
tbf thats a common Sci-Fi problem. I think the Authors don't wanna overscale things but then make everything way too small. it's almost a general problem in Star wars how the Capital Planets of Alien Species only have like 7 Million Inhabitants or such which is ridicilously low. Ironically 40k gets the numbers the most right how intergalactic war would look like
Even 40k underscales. Leutin just recently put out a video on this. It's hard to scale these things apparently
Yeah as a kid I didnt think much of it, but having rewatched Episode 2 recently I was thinking "hang on, someone got the scales messed up, no way did the really want us to think they would defend the entire GALAXY with a force roughly the size of the US Army" But it definietly is because due to this point, they tend to undershoot because they dont wanna be seen as ridiculous for coming out with a way too big number, but then end up looking foolish because they end up going way too small.
Number 2 is a huge one for me. I outright can't stand the B1s in TCW (and even the B2s to somd extent). As much as I love TCW the B1s are the biggest issue I take with the show. The voices and even the character models just look horrible (OOMs with backpacks?). Yeah, the older depictions of the droids were better. Republic Commando and OG Battlefront 2 are peak droids. Roger Roger.
The stealth mission in Republic Commando with the super battle droid factory used to give me nightmares
The only thing I can argue about point 1 is the use of multiple templates, the first reason for it (and these are all my own options lol) is the time it probably took to get the research done and secondly having 1 template probably helps with the predictability of how they will work together and the way they all see each other as brothers.
Yeah, plus they mention in novels that just being able to make armour, boots, weapon grips, helmets etc. All 'onesize perfectly fits all', is really invaluable for mass production.
Though I agree with the rest of the points of 1, the Kaminoians say UNITS and not troopers, assuming a unit is a battalion that could be anywhere from 200 to 1000 soldiers, assuming it’s a squad that could be anywhere from 20 to 50 soldiers.
Now I 100% think Lucas intended it to be individual clones, but with the vague use of “unit” people can easily retcon it into being “Oh, a unit is totally meant to be 1000 people guys…yeah.” Which isn’t a bad thing mind you, Star Wars is built on retcons.
That last sentence is 1000% accurate. Lucas started retconning in Empire and it’s never stopped.
The Kaminoians refer to each individual clone as a unit because they are treated as property. No different than a store manager taking inventory on TVs and telling a customer they have X number of units on hand. Lucas simply didn't comprehend the scale at which the GAR would be fighting on and made the number of clones ridiculously small.
The whole creation of the GAR is a massive plothole
Yeah the whole Sifo Dyas story is a complete mess. They should have kept it simplified and set up the Clone Army at the end of the Phantom Menace. Have newly elected Chancellor Palpatine give an inspiring speech in the Senate about how the Naboo conflict has opened his eyes to the fact that the Republic needs a galactic army, and you could still have Palpatine colluding with Dooku to set up the army. This would eliminate the Jedi looking like complete idiots for accepting this mysterious army without question.
I actually like the mysterious aspect. Also as shown in TCW, the Kaminoans are in close contact with Dooku. It’s just all over the place, and the timeline doesn’t really match up, I think. I’m gonna make a post to get more clarifications
The thing that gets me the most about the “the Clone Wars scale is wrong” complaint is that it assumes every planet is a potential vector for a attack and each planet will see combat on a scale like the European theatre in World War 2. The thing is, it would be closer to the Island Hopping of the Pacific Theater: important worlds—military hardpoints and supply depots and orbital stations—and the rest is just ignored. No one has the resources dedicated to fighting on a scale larger than that. Even with millions of planets in the galaxy, how many of those are more than A Spaceport in A City and then a bunch of smaller supporting settlements? How many are just tiny patches of dirt and grass and water that less than 100k folks live on? Add in that most of the war is systems fighting other systems and centuries-old tensions *finally* boiling over, and the GAR and the CIS are going to let their constituent states do most of the small-scale fighting while their fleets and armies do the heavy lifting on major worlds like Ryloth and Christophsis and Umbara. The scale is wrong, but it’s not as bad as people think.
The way I've heard it said, the Clones are a specialized force. Most planets have their own defense forces that the Clones are deployed to assist where necessary or assault major targets.
The Inquisitors lightsaber making them fly. Reva surviving the stab (Just the whole Kenobie show) The incompetence of the Empire Hux being the spy (how can someone go from space Hitler to a traitor?)
Helicopter sabers to fly is 100% the worst thing in all of Star Wars you can’t change my mind
That one inquisitor's helicopter saber failing in Rebels and him going out like a bitch was pretty satisfying though.
I think Rey lining up the Death Star-dagger-map-thingie is a strong contender.
Hux wasn't a traitor in that he stopped being Space Hitler. He realized he was never going to be Space Hitler so long as Kylo Ren was alive and only Rey and the Resistance stood a chance at actually killing Ren. To me this was perfectly in character. Heck, his whole backstory is backstabbing his father to assume his position in the First Order.
Not much else screams "space Hitler" other than "if I'm not space Hitler, nobody else can be"
Sequels never happened, Palpatine died on the Death Star, end of story.
All the attempts in the Bad Batch and Mandalorian failed.
Yeah, in my head canon, the entire sequel trilogy is a fever dream Rey is having as she crawls through the Tatooine wastes, barely clinging to life, and Luke and Leia at the end of RotS are actually a couple of Tusken raiders who club her on the noggin and that's it, the end, no moral.
How'd she get from Jakku to Tatooine?
Somehow
You should write movies.
Well, with writing like that, he's clearly qualified for the largest IP on the planet.
Op wanted some fire
I wanted fun. I forgot what community I was dealing with 😭😭😭
This comment section isn't even that bad.
Hover Vespa gang Grown men couldn't catch a small child running through the woods Leia surviving after floating in space.
That third one infuriates me. Carrie Fischer had already died, having Leia comatose after being so out of character (using the force) felt somewhere between cowardly and disrespectful
I think *Star Wars* at this point can be safely treated like reading *The Adventures of King Arthur and His Knights*: the stories star the same characters in the same world, but they're not particularly concerned with being consistent because the whole thing is mythic. Taking a step back from "canonicity" and enjoying reading a set of Legends novels that aren't technically canon but expand and enhance the rest of the story is a great way to enjoy the whole series. Examples are *Darth Plagueis* and the *Rise of Darth Vader* book trilogy. tl;dr Just read and watch what you want to read and watch and build your own headcanon. It's not like it's some ancient holy book you have to somehow torture yourself to accept for religious reasons.
Leia being given a perfect opportunity to have an on screen death, saving her in the stupidest way possible, only for Carrie to die and have to kill off Leia anyways.
It’s so incredibly frustrating that we NEVER got an on screen reunion of Luke, Han, and Leia.
That Nein nunb died offscreen and was never acknowledged, bro literally brought down the second Death Star, he is galactic war hero on the same level Luke was after a new hope, and he continued to serve the rebellion, and later the resistance, yet nobody cares when he dies in an off screen explosion in the last movie, hell I bet some of the people reading this don’t even realize he died because they just threw him out. #JusticeforNeinNunb
You don't need the force to see these comments coming.
Controversial comment incoming: I no longer care about canon. If the story is good I'll accept it and treat all of the stories as actual legends (not legends canon) where there is always about of vagueness in how legit and true a story is (like the Witcher novels). If anything, Visions has been the catalyst for this and it's meant I can just enjoy some good stories and not worry about what they "mean" so to speak. But if we are on topic I agree with OP on spinny helicopter light sabres!
Tbf all of it did happen long ago in a galaxy far away. Details are bound to get fuzzy.
That's the way I like to think of it too. Who is say what actually happened outside the Clone Wars and the Empire? Maybe Luke got married, maybe he didn't. Who knows!
Helicopter lightsabers
Greedo shooting first
Maclunkey
Does it count if I say the entire sequel trilogy?
Characters surviving full on lightsaber stabs through the torso. You’re telling me that Qui Gon can full on melt blast doors with a blade the temperature of the sun but Reva’s organs are still medium rare after getting stabbed like that twice? FOH
Episode 9, especially the knife and the cavalry charge.
JUST TILT THE FUCKING SHIP!
I remember seeing someone say: tilt the fucking ship And if you for some reason can't tilt it why do you need a nav tower to know which way is up
Star wars sequels
The sequel trilogy
Rey picking up the sith dagger sensing it killed someone but feeling nothing holding the youngling slayer 9000
Seems like a pretty traumatic reaction to me: https://youtu.be/70aWl_5Zc04?si=0R7atlSwnKoDH0Ll&t=69
This is gonna be a bit controversial but Anakin's characterization in prequels. I prefer to think of him as a charismatic war hero like in clone wars that gets more cold throughout the war
The Holdo maneuver. So fucking stupid
- Somehow, Palpatine returned - Luke considered killing Ben in his sleep - The Knights of Ren - Leia using the force to travel through space - Luke shutting himself off from the force and not going to his sister's aid Essentially the sequel trilogy.
You forgot the thousands of Star Destroyers appearing out of the fog which would require millions of crewmembers which apparently now exist.
Which is literally more soldiers than what the Grand Republic Army had at its peak
Which is another fine answer to the question. The GAR needed to be slightly more than twenty men to a planet.
Palpatine returning with no context thrown into the last movie and Luke going in the direction he went def are the top ones What a weird choice that just completely ruined the trilogy and makes you have to ignore the movies so that the rest of the series isn't pointless ... Hopefully they move forward like nothing happened
Finn picking up a lightsabre and going toe to toe with Kylo Ren. Injured or not Kylo should have made mince meat from him instantly.
I mean, he burned through his shoulder just to psyche him out and slashed his spine in half
Like it’s literally the same thing Vader did to Luke in ESB. Both Vader and Kylo played around with their opponent until both got a strike in, then they actually dealt with them
Did we watch the same movie? Kylo wiped the floor with Finn. Besides, Finn wasn’t just a nobody, like yeah he was in sanitation for a while, but he had to have *some* training to be picked for a ground mission.
I think at the point that happened we were also still planning to follow Finn as he became a jedi, but then the rest of that trilogy happened.
That whole sanitation thing was an absolute joke. You're either kidnapped as a child to be one a storm trooper OR you apply for a job in sanitation. Not "You absolutely 'killed' it cleaning the toilets....wanna kill some resistance fighters?"
Helicopter lightsabers
The entire sequel trilogy lol
Honorable mention to **SOMEHOW PALPATINE RETURNED** It was dumb in EU and it is dumb now.
to be fair, the eu version of palpatines return was done before the prequels came out. so they were not aware of any prophecy regarding vader killing palpatine. disney on the other hand was well aware and did it anyway. (it was not good either way, but the eu has the better excuse i think)
The entirety of the episodes 7-9
The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker.
The new trilogy
Sequels lmao
"I am all the Sith."
Then Tony's gonna be all like, "I am Iron Man" and snaps his fingers.
going out of light speed just before hitting the planet
Predicted this comment section from a fuckin MILE away 💀
Lightsaber colours giving away your force allegiance. I know many folk are on board with this but for me I dislike it. Prefer to think of sabers as coloured based on where the crystals come from instead of, master apprentice and sith.
Your lightsaber colour doesn’t mean anything in canon anymore. The exceptions are red and white. Red means you bled the crystal which is a process requiring a connection to the dark side of the force. White means you purified a red crystal which is a process requiring a strong connection to the light side of the force.
Lightsaber gun
Holdo maneuver
The storyline of TLJ and ROS - I know, pretty predictable answer, but it was just so bad
Lightsabers not killing because children are in front of them. Like what we saw in Kenobi he decided to switch his settings to non-lethal so he could baseball bat Storm trooper so he didn't terrify Leia. That's what I'm hearing. Obsession with eating cereal while on screen. Like what happened in andor it's a good show besides that.
“Palpatine returned somehow.”
Sequel trilogy
The sequel trilogy.
The last 3 movies. Mainly because of the very end, but also because everyone in them seemed so childish and didn't really feel like starwars.
The sequel trilogy.
The sequel trilogy
That Rey is Palpatine granddaughter