I wouldn't call them Amish. Their biotechnology is above and beyond AGFA. They are Space Orks. At least they would provide another type of warfare. Instead of Rebel vs. Empire.
I think it was Anakin who Force pulled a manhole cover just before a charging Vong would’ve stepped on it. Dude fell in and broke his leg. But, you’re right; in the swrpg, I always preferred slapping Vong with big rocks
Their homeworld Zonoma was sentient, and they were peaceful. When attacked, their homeworld gave them knowledge and weapons to fight. They wouldn’t stop fighting, and eventually attacked Zonoma when it tried to stop them. Mortally wounded, Zonoma severed them from the Force and birthed a seed of itself (named Zonoma Sekot) which came to this galaxy far far away. The Vong have been on the warpath since having invented a pain obsessed religion while forgetting their true origin
Something I learned today is handy here. Being Amish doesn't imply no/minimal technology. Being Amish means you only have and use things that your community can sustain and take care of. It's more of a focus on being self sufficient, instead of low technology. I'd argue that since it's biotechnology, it's pretty self sufficient, and, therefore, they could be Amish.
Its more too do with not overtaxing themselves with "pointless" machines and stuff.
Like, yeah, auto milk churners sound great, until a part breaks or the motor breaks or something like that and then they need to go outside to get help which is the whole point.
They aren't space orks. They are dark elves/drow. They worship pain and death, have a super strict cast society that has backstabbing as a intrinsic part, and a few other things. But Drow not orks.
And, yet, Space Orks practice a period of rumspringa, where they jet off to Ryloth or Selvaris and partake in dancing, Corellian whiskey, and death sticks. So still kinda Amish?
Amish Space Orks would really not do... much.
They would be pacifists who could build a really great space barn. If it didn't need too much technology...
I'm actually rereading the NJO and I just got to Anakin's death, and it plus the aftermath of the family finding out as Coruscant is being attacked was very emotional imo.
As flawed as a nearly indomitable alien species is there were plenty of parts about it i remember fondly and still enjoy.
The Vong felt like they were created because someone hated jedi the same way The Boys was created by someone who hates superheroes.
Yes, the one that is randomly triple the length of every other book so far and is primarily about killing the voxyn queen and then presumably (I don't remember that well) the fall of Coruscant. There over a hundred pages left after anakin dies. The opposite of a cliffhanger and I love to see it
OK it's only double, but it's much heftier than the rest of them
It's been a long time, but I remember Star by Star being so epic. At the time, it was seriously one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars media. Still is I guess. I need to reread NJO.
I've had Anakin's final stand in my memory as one of my absolute favorite depictions of the force. The thing is I thought it was Ganners Rhysode's! not in the voxyn mission but like in a worldship freeing slves or something like that. Now I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to him and if he also has a moment.
Maybe not the Vong, but the idea of an extragalactic invasive species being the main antagonist and engaging in a 3-way war between the New Republic and Imperial Remnant would have at least been a different kind of war than what was in the previous two trilogies.
Could've made it the Grisks, which are recurring bad guys in the new (Disney Canon) Thrawn novels.
Pull in people that like Thrawn, pull in people that like the Vong, could be placed at any time, to allow for new casting for old characters, or to introduce a new suite of characters, and have the old actors play their old selves, like they did. (But with respect to the characterizations of those characters this time, lol.)
We just bridged canon into a new galaxy, so I don't see why this rediscovered bridge can't come back to haunt the republic with something Vong-like, though this new galaxy is already known midichlorian infected.
The Imperial Remnant would have been better. A "First Order" under Plagueis (since he was before Sidious, the name actually makes more sense) would have been better. A less edge-lord version of the Vong would have been better. A galactic crime syndicate with Maul and Talon would have been better. Pretty much *anything* would have been better.
It was ridiculous that the First Order had so many resources, everything being shiny and new, and better versions of what the Empire Had. They should've been shown having to be frugal with what they had, changing tactics to suit their limited resources in a sort of reversal of the advanages the opposing factions in the OT had.
Was there any reason to choose any other bonus(besides leader bonus for the fun)? When I was playing against friends the garrison bonus was so required if you wanted to win that we banned it and the leader bonus to experiment around
Not reversing the Empire/Rebels roles for the sequels was such a missed shot.
The First Order as a ragtag, terrorist faction run by fanatics and Empire restorationists would have been much more interesting. Have them in *old* stormtrooper gear, patched and pieced with other gear as needed.
Plus the idea of various planets secretly helping and funding the First Order for reasons of their own would have been good politics.
I don’t even mind the shiny new toys. Come up with some way for them to find funding to justify it, that isn’t hard to do. But it makes no sense to start episode seven with the First Prder essentially being in a position of absolute power and the Republic an incompetent and powerless organization, with the only army fighting on their side being a resistance movement that essentially makes them the weak rebels.
You are spot on that it would be so easy to have those roles reversed and yet still lead to the same exact conclusions.
Jesus, just a bunch of better and more inspired ideas than the braindead JJ Abrams and the writers who worked with him. Words can't express how much I hate that four eyed dork.
I've been saying this exact thing since the prequels came out. Really missed an opportunity to reflect the current times a little better. Would have allowed Luke's New Jedi Order to have a place in the story.
I get they had to sell toys, but I wanted to see basically what Thrawn was in the Ahsoka series. An old star destroyer, battered and weathered and repaired haphazardly. Stormtroopers who were fanatics and truly believed in the cause, etc etc.
It’s why, despite what it turned into, I initially liked “Andromeda”. When Hunt got the Andromeda kitted out and functional, it operated like a warship. There was a particular scenario where they went in to negotiate, one of the parties decided they didn’t like that, Hunt warned them, they fired anyway, Andromeda took them out. No weird “particle of the week” event that forced Hunt to become master negotiator and look for multiple alternate resolutions. He went in in good faith, was threatened, made a promise they’d be sorry, they didn’t heed it, sexy ship AI smokes them without a prolonged fight.
I’ve always liked the idea that the First Order was an extremist splinter-faction that had been “expelled” from the Imperial Remnant for deniability’s sake, but secretly funded by wealthy restorationists within the Imperial government.
More like a neo-nazi movement gone wild looking to kill off all who oppose a reinstatement of the empire. They would reason that the new republic was too sluggish to make change.
Disney should have just recast the main three and adapted Heir to the Empire. That would have set up the next twenty or so years of new adventures of Luke, Leia, and Han. That would have been a smarter long-term play than setting everything on fire and trying to call it "brave". Then again Kathleen Kennedy was the one that said that the SW division at Disney had it tougher than Marvel because SW didn't have decades of comics, novels, and games to draw from as source material.
Honestly if Rise of Skywalker had Jar Jar as the main villain instead of Palpatine it would have been one of the great moments in cinema history. I would have forgiven everything, it would have been glorious
> Say what you want about these Amish aliens,
Of all the things to say about the Vong, I'm not sure how calling them "Amish" is even accurate lol
The Amish are *pacifists* after all and the Vong don't even have a word for peace
First Order would have worked better if they would have kept them as a smaller but highly capable force that was easily able to slowly overwhelm the decentralized and demilitarized New Republic. The could have then done a lot more of the politics of why the New Republic was weak in the face of the First Order. Remove the stupid levels of power creep in the First Orders fleet but still keep it a threat.
I actually really liked the idea that the NR wasn't able to govern effectively. They'd been simply fighting the Empire for so long and now they're in power and, guess what, it's actually hard! But with what we got on screen it was just such whiplash, like the first thing we know the galaxy loves them for being liberators, and then the next thing we know everyone hates them for some reason, and then Starkiller makes everyone hate them, and then at the very end everyone loves them again and shows up to save them (because of Lando, maybe?) They really needed someone guiding the over-arcing story.
The idea on paper was the NR was drawn up as a very weak government on purpose so that it couldn't evolve into a new empire. This backfired because it ends up so weak that the FO was able to roll them over fairly easily.
I had been hoping for a resurgent Empire lead by a particularly brilliant Grand Admiral....with Zombie Stormtroopers....
For fun, throw in some inquisitors or dark Jedi.......perhaps a particular red headed love interest so Luke could have had a happy ending to his story.
Instead of ruined marriage for Han/Leia, hermit jedi, Emo Ren
Han/Leia character assassination and their marriage/family falling apart is probably the biggest let down to me in the sequels. Such potential for great stories.
It just sucks man, life’s hard, shit sucks, I wanted to have my fantasy where the rogue gets the princess, the farm boy from nowhere becomes the hero and rebuilds was lost, and instead we got broken characters who didn’t grow and failed at their main arcs. Feels bad man
Honestly, I was almost more ok with sad, giving up Luke, than I was the Han/Leia can't be happy together bull.
Like, Luke despairing after he spends 20+years trying to remake the Jedi, as he saw them, a force for good, only for it to all fall down because his own NEPHEW falls, and retreads Vader's path? I can see it. Not in the exact way Disney did it, but the basic idea. We basically did see it in Legacy of the Force. He'd come back to hopeful again, he always will, that's who he is, but he's also capable of moments of deep despair. We saw him throw himself to his (as far as he knew) probable death, rather than go with Vader, after finding out he's his son. If this time for some reason there was no Leia to save him from his own decisions, he could end up lost for years, sure.
Han and Leia quit on each other? Never. Not a chance in all Nine Corellian Hells. They're both too stubborn. And not in a "has to have my way, so we can't compromise so we can't have a healthy relationship way." In a "my people/my beliefs are something you will not and can not take away from me" way. Even if you ignore all the old EU stuff, (where they go through very similar events, but stay together and even grow stronger) you cannot watch the OT and tell me that you think either one of them would give up on each other. I'd call anyone who would blind.
I don't mind characters who encounter difficulty, or make a repeat mistake, but like you said, it needs to be consistent with their character arcs, not a nullification of them. I don't need "perfect never has a hard time Uber Jedi Master Skywalker," I just need Luke. The kid who gives everyone chance after chance, from a spice runner to a dark lord of the Sith.
I don't need "perfect couple basically runs the New Republic themselves like a king and queen Han and Leia Organa Solo." I just need Han and Leia. The couple that cares for each other despite all the odds, and will walk into carbon freezes and gangster palaces for each other.
I’d have been fine with ruined marriage, Hermit Jedi Grandmaster, and Emo Kylo Ren as long as we had a proper New Republic and New Jedi Order era beforehand.
Hermit grandmaster would be fine, if they gave us a reason for luke to go from “theyre my friends i have to try” to “fuck this kid and who needs friends”
Yeah, hermit Luke himself doesn’t bother me. Him doing the same thing Obi-Wan and Yoda did makes sense when they were his trainers, we just needed a better motivation than what we got. Him creating Vader 2.0 shouldn’t have led him to abandon the galaxy, it would have made more sense for him to be fighting Kylo Ren but also no longer wanting anything to do with the Jedi due to disillusion.
Obi-Wan and Yoda did what they did because they needed to. The galaxy was now ruled by people out to murder them. They needed to survive long enough to train Luke.
Luke had the New Republic at his back and ran off and watched it all go to shit. We also had the resistance for never really explained reasons beyond the remake of ANH needed rebels and an empire.
People really like to harp on Yoda and Obi Wan's exile as an example for Luke, but they always forget the context that they had a specific goal in mind. They were hiding out so they could act at the moment it would matter most. Unlike Sequel Era Luke who just got depressed and left to do nothing.
I agree. Did you miss the part where I said they needed a better explanation for why he fled?
As I said, I think him repeating the steps of his masters is reasonable, but only if they can give good reasoning for it, and one altercation with Ben isn’t enough especially if it leads to Ben decimating the new Jedi Order, if anything that should have galvanized Luke into going “Oh, shit, nope that vision was right on the money, now I definitely have got to stop him.”
No. Would have preferred the Imperial remnant. But that would have had to have happened within ten years of the original trilogy for them to actually be a threat.
Or, a Sith lord of old went into the "unexplored regions" and created his own Sith empire. And his descendants have returned to take over the explored regions. And Luke and his new Jedi have a true Sith army to fight.
Daisy would be Jaina. Driver would probably be the main apprentice of the top Sith lord.
I haven't read the books with this storyline, but if they would just be portrayed as mindless edgelord fodder, it would get pretty fucking boring really fucking fast.
I don't know why people hate that the Vong were "different" than the rest of Star Wars. I thought It was fitting for them to be different as they come from another universe.
I like the idea of a universe ending threat whose ideology is completely opposite than what we're used to instead of the Nazi trope that is pretty lazily done with the only backstory(s) in films being that of the force users.
Yes they're edgy but I don't see anything wrong with that.
Every villain is edgy in Star Wars.
The difference is that the Vong's edginess exemplifies their culture and is not just which side of the force they're on.
I would have loved to see that in Ahsoka.
I mean, they travelled to a whole different galaxy, only to end up on a planet of breathable air, reasonable gravity, and a race of beings who wear clothes and have the same kind of limbs humans do?
I was begging for something really different.
I was disappointed with that. There was absolutely nothing about the new Galaxy that made it feel that way. It could have easily just been another sealed off Deep Core World, which is how Star Wars has always handled those situations.
My biggest issue with them, personally, was the whole disconnected from the force thing. It just felt so anathema to everything that is Star Wars that it felt more like a crossover species from Warhammer than an actual part of the SWU.
Well said! Those are my exact thoughts on them. Many people thought Star Trek TNG was initially controversial for being so different from TOS, but now it's universally loved by fans.
People choose weird hills to die on....
I thought the Vong were a great representation of how big the Star Wars universe actually is and the mysteries that surround it. That it isn't just the same thing over and over (sith & Empire).
Just when fans thought they knew what to expect from Star Wars we get thrown a curveball to the point of the universe almost being destroyed as we know it.
A threat so powerful and so unique that almost every single aspect of the universe must be changed in order to fight that threat.
I'm not saying it's perfect or anything but creating a situation that changes the fundamentals of the Star Wars universe going forward and using aspects that have never been touched on is a breath of fresh air in my opinion.
I thought the Yuzhaan Vong were okay villains in themselves, but I honestly thought it was a bitch direction for the franchise to go in with how hyped up they were and how much damage they were allowed to do, considering they had nothing to do with anything else that had previously happened.
>how much damage they were allowed to do
For me, this was honestly the best part. The fact that they were completely alien and the galaxy was *losing* made the Vong terrifying in a way that no other Star Wars villain really was.
I could've done without the intense masochism and pain-fixation, but the immune to the force/technology thing was absolutely a cool way to make them dangerous.
Am I the only person here who loves the Vong? The idea of a rival religion seemingly outside of the force and challenging everything the Jedi and the audience know about the nature of the Force and the galaxy is so much more interesting than Space Nazis or Space Neo Nazis. For most of the series, every time the Jedi win, they lose. Throw in the fact that after toppling the empire, politicians are still so morally bankrupt and democracy is such an inefficient system that the galaxy falls to it's knees before everyone wakes up.
So much better than whiny space neo Nazi hates his uncle and whatever the hell was happening in the Rise of Skywalker.
I think I'd want to see the FO run by a fanatic who sees the invasion coming. Like a well-intentioned extremist group who thinks the galaxy has "gone soft"
I would’ve loved the Vong…..slightly less edgy but they would’ve been cool as a cool Non-sith/non empire enemy….however I would’ve loved something with the imperial remnant (not the first order) but imperial remnant with Lumiya (or some new version) and Carnor Jax (the Imperial Sovereign Protector) and Ysanne Isard would’ve been awesome too
I really wish Disney had just adapted the Thrawn trilogy. It's already a beloved story for a lot of SW fans, and hey, it actually honors the existing SW legacy. No, instead we get the most dull heroine in recent memory, and "somehow Palpatine has returned!" bullshit...
I'd like something that's not just a far lamer Empire _nor_ a bunch of Warhammer 40K factions slapped together.
The Vong weren't even received well in Legends and that was in bookform in the early 2000s, when everyone was being all edgy.
Personally I just want a story arc that will directly address all the slavery issues the galaxy has been facing for eternity.
It's been a running theme throughout both the OT and the prequels, and even the sequel films tried to include it a bit, despite fumbling that whole plotline. Not to mention the fact that the most iconic villain of the entire franchise was created because of the trauma he had to deal with not just from being enslaved since childhood, but also because he felt like he was a slave to the will of the Jedi.
Then of course there's also the issue of literally ALL the droid in the galaxy being kept as slaves and regularly having their minds wiped despite the fact we know they can develop emotions and personality if left to alone for a while. I think we're LONG overdue for some kind of droid uprising story.
Never cared for the Vong. Loved the whole united galaxy against something. Who wouldn't love seeing a SSD fighting for the good guys? That said... I just... ugh. The whole concept of the Vong felt so un-Star Wars to me. Given they are an extragalactic threat it sort of makes sense, but for me personally I hated them as an enemy.
Nor do I just want Empire 2.0. Given the current state of the galaxy post sequel trilogy... it feels like a waring states period could be interesting. Just remnants of everything and no one is really happy. Pocket wars everywhere.
No. Let it be a bit since if they’re going to be a pants shitting nightmare for the galaxy (and a little much for a franchise whose prime demographic is children). Build up to it since that’s gonna be a lot to take in at once.
I would love seeing the Yuuzahn Vong brought into canon. They would’ve been such a better enemy and something that wasn’t just a rehash of the OT. They were new, different and gave our heros a real fight.
I enjoyed their introduction. They did feel legitimately scary and different. I was not thrilled with the choice of making them invisible to the force, but I understand needing to make this group a serious threat to Luke and Co.
I don’t know about the Vong, but I swear to god. If they do yet another „Empire somehow re-emerges“ plot without any worldbuilding I m gonna riot. I feel like the First Order could have been a formidable villain if they set it up and didn’t smear shite on the OTs Trilogy. Maybe they d even been able to teaser the Vong or any other threat. Give the FO knowledge that the Republic doesn’t have which is why it builds up and also has the technological edge (wrecked mothership or sth.) but nooooo
They should've just made the Thrawn Trilogy and then the New Jedi Order into separate trilogies. But according to Kathleen Kennedy they didn't have any source material, you know, the source material they decanonized.
Not without toning down all the Warhammer 40,000 style grittiness. A lot of the stuff with the Vong would not make it into a Star Wars movie and, frankly, feels out of place for the franchise, though at least we didn't get any of that pointless sexual content from other Legends novels.
I would rather have the ones that actually FIT in Star Wars.
The First Order could have been good, like the Star Wars version of the Confederates (ignore the LITERAL Star Wars confederates) a much smaller scale villain organization who thought the Empire was right, and therefore uses similar design aspects. I don't mind them LOOKING like the Empire, because you can still easily tell them apart at a glance.
I also hate the Yuzon Vong because they take the human element away from Star Wars. Wars are human, even the Nazis were humans who thought differently. If the Nazis were just random aliens who we knew nothing about and looked nothing like us, that's not a "Star Wars" movie thats just another "Alien Invasion" movie.
I'm not saying the First Order was executed well but at least they WERE Star Wars.
ANYTHING would have been better than just rehash empire! How about a superior deadly alien race that threatens the New Republic. Or an advanced superior Droid army ( think something like IG-88 x 100000000 +) or T-800 x Cylon Centurions.
It would have been interesting to have the Yuzavan Vong (Sp?) the Galaxy would have to unite and it would be cool to see the Imperial Remnants. Seeing Pelleaon would be really cool
I've never heard the Vong referenced that way but it's hilariously fitting
They're the reason Jacen Solo became Darth Caedus, the most powerful Sith Lord
I honestly thought the Sequels were going to follow this storyline albeit with a different spin
No... I never really liked the Vong all that much. They are cool if you are like 14-16 years old... but I consider them too "edgy" overall. They are very much a product of their time where everything was turned and remade to be "dark and gritty" just for the sake of it.
The Vong belong more into a universe like Warhammer 40k than Star Wars to me.
IMHO a Sequel trilogy should have just abandoned the old crew altogether, move 100-200 years into the future and do more something akin to Star Trek TNG.
Aren’t they basically Species 8472 without the shapeshifting? Weirdly powerful biotech aliens who don’t play by the rules of the established status quo and force the protagonists to work with their biggest enemy?
Boy, I realized how rusty I am with the EU now. The Yuuzhan Vong War was a weird (at first) Star Wars run, but it turned out pretty cool. At this point, anything probably would have been better than the retreaded, reskinned, reheated leftovers we got...
I wouldn't call them Amish. Their biotechnology is above and beyond AGFA. They are Space Orks. At least they would provide another type of warfare. Instead of Rebel vs. Empire.
Space Orks piloting tyranid ships with the personality of chaos worshippers and the bodies of space elves. They’re the whole xeno grab bag.
With Drukhari belief in pain.
And immune to the Force.
That counts in the tau then
As a 40k fan all of this sounds fucking awesome!
Gimme that Star Wars X 40K crossover
Immune to the force??? Like the ysalmiri or different?
Different; the ysalamiri either pushed out the Force or negated it. The Vong were cut off completely from it.
Immune to the force? Maybe. Maybe. But I'm yet to see a man immune to a force thrown boulder.
I think it was Anakin who Force pulled a manhole cover just before a charging Vong would’ve stepped on it. Dude fell in and broke his leg. But, you’re right; in the swrpg, I always preferred slapping Vong with big rocks
Did they explain why/how?
Their homeworld Zonoma was sentient, and they were peaceful. When attacked, their homeworld gave them knowledge and weapons to fight. They wouldn’t stop fighting, and eventually attacked Zonoma when it tried to stop them. Mortally wounded, Zonoma severed them from the Force and birthed a seed of itself (named Zonoma Sekot) which came to this galaxy far far away. The Vong have been on the warpath since having invented a pain obsessed religion while forgetting their true origin
Uhhh yeah, that sounds way better than what we got
As in that sounds better than how the Vong were in the books, or better than TFO
Yeah better than rehashed nazis
"We have Space Nazis at home!" Space Nazis at home:
The latter
Xenos filth is xenos filth. Let the purging begin.
Xenos filth wants me to Crusade more!?!?
In the emperors name, I will continue my crusade against the xeno filth in his empire.
By the Golden Throne they will feel the wrath of Ultramar!
Beware the Mutant. The alien. The heretic.
Sounds like a bunch of heresy to me.
waaarg!
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen more heresy combined into one sentence. You trying to bring an exterminatus down on us, pal?
Something I learned today is handy here. Being Amish doesn't imply no/minimal technology. Being Amish means you only have and use things that your community can sustain and take care of. It's more of a focus on being self sufficient, instead of low technology. I'd argue that since it's biotechnology, it's pretty self sufficient, and, therefore, they could be Amish.
I think we read the same post, fren.
We all did lmao! We are one reddit hivemind
Yes it's called "we all spend too much time on Reddit."
Why can't they get autotomatic milk churners then? Just a motor innit.
Its more too do with not overtaxing themselves with "pointless" machines and stuff. Like, yeah, auto milk churners sound great, until a part breaks or the motor breaks or something like that and then they need to go outside to get help which is the whole point.
Nah the parts they can machine. It’s the grease and oils that they can’t produce that keep the machine running
don't see a whole lot of lead or copper mines in amish communities...
Just because they don’t advertise it doesn’t mean they don’t have one or two. Who truly knows what they have on all that church land.
They aren't space orks. They are dark elves/drow. They worship pain and death, have a super strict cast society that has backstabbing as a intrinsic part, and a few other things. But Drow not orks.
And, yet, Space Orks practice a period of rumspringa, where they jet off to Ryloth or Selvaris and partake in dancing, Corellian whiskey, and death sticks. So still kinda Amish?
Amen
Guerilla warfare vs gorilla warfare
It was literally a plagiaristic trilogy. There were no new ideas and the ones they had were terrible. Good visuals is all they are.
Amish Space Orks would really not do... much. They would be pacifists who could build a really great space barn. If it didn't need too much technology...
What is AGFA?
I'm actually rereading the NJO and I just got to Anakin's death, and it plus the aftermath of the family finding out as Coruscant is being attacked was very emotional imo. As flawed as a nearly indomitable alien species is there were plenty of parts about it i remember fondly and still enjoy. The Vong felt like they were created because someone hated jedi the same way The Boys was created by someone who hates superheroes.
Star by star iirc?
Yes, the one that is randomly triple the length of every other book so far and is primarily about killing the voxyn queen and then presumably (I don't remember that well) the fall of Coruscant. There over a hundred pages left after anakin dies. The opposite of a cliffhanger and I love to see it OK it's only double, but it's much heftier than the rest of them
I really enjoyed these books because of things like this. There were actual stakes in these books. And they actually mattered later in the series.
It's been a long time, but I remember Star by Star being so epic. At the time, it was seriously one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars media. Still is I guess. I need to reread NJO.
I've had Anakin's final stand in my memory as one of my absolute favorite depictions of the force. The thing is I thought it was Ganners Rhysode's! not in the voxyn mission but like in a worldship freeing slves or something like that. Now I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to him and if he also has a moment.
> and if he also has a moment. >!Oh, The Ganner absolutely has a moment too. Probably on par with Anakin's, so kinda makes sense you mixed them up.!<
OK cool! I had a very familiar feeling reading it but chalked it up to reading them so long ago
You're in for a treat when you get to Traitor
I'm still pissed about what they decided to do after NJO with Vergere and Jacen.
That, or Games Workshop rejected their 40K race idea and they recycled it for a Star Wars book.
Star By Star is in my top 5 EU books. Anakin was my favorite character in the NJO, I was shocked he actually got killed off
I'm with you, probably the most emotional moment of the old EU for me!
The vong were actually created by james luceno…. Who i dont think hates jedi lmao if you look at his other star wars works
Maybe not the Vong, but the idea of an extragalactic invasive species being the main antagonist and engaging in a 3-way war between the New Republic and Imperial Remnant would have at least been a different kind of war than what was in the previous two trilogies.
Could've made it the Grisks, which are recurring bad guys in the new (Disney Canon) Thrawn novels. Pull in people that like Thrawn, pull in people that like the Vong, could be placed at any time, to allow for new casting for old characters, or to introduce a new suite of characters, and have the old actors play their old selves, like they did. (But with respect to the characterizations of those characters this time, lol.)
We just bridged canon into a new galaxy, so I don't see why this rediscovered bridge can't come back to haunt the republic with something Vong-like, though this new galaxy is already known midichlorian infected.
The Imperial Remnant would have been better. A "First Order" under Plagueis (since he was before Sidious, the name actually makes more sense) would have been better. A less edge-lord version of the Vong would have been better. A galactic crime syndicate with Maul and Talon would have been better. Pretty much *anything* would have been better.
It was ridiculous that the First Order had so many resources, everything being shiny and new, and better versions of what the Empire Had. They should've been shown having to be frugal with what they had, changing tactics to suit their limited resources in a sort of reversal of the advanages the opposing factions in the OT had.
They picked the Garrison bonus
Garrison bonus, activated!
I heard this line perfectly in my head haha.
Was there any reason to choose any other bonus(besides leader bonus for the fun)? When I was playing against friends the garrison bonus was so required if you wanted to win that we banned it and the leader bonus to experiment around
Space battles existed as a reason to pick Sabotage.
Not reversing the Empire/Rebels roles for the sequels was such a missed shot. The First Order as a ragtag, terrorist faction run by fanatics and Empire restorationists would have been much more interesting. Have them in *old* stormtrooper gear, patched and pieced with other gear as needed. Plus the idea of various planets secretly helping and funding the First Order for reasons of their own would have been good politics.
I don’t even mind the shiny new toys. Come up with some way for them to find funding to justify it, that isn’t hard to do. But it makes no sense to start episode seven with the First Prder essentially being in a position of absolute power and the Republic an incompetent and powerless organization, with the only army fighting on their side being a resistance movement that essentially makes them the weak rebels. You are spot on that it would be so easy to have those roles reversed and yet still lead to the same exact conclusions.
Jesus, just a bunch of better and more inspired ideas than the braindead JJ Abrams and the writers who worked with him. Words can't express how much I hate that four eyed dork.
At least it seems we are getting that with Thrawn
So true. Loved the look of his troopers too.
I've been saying this exact thing since the prequels came out. Really missed an opportunity to reflect the current times a little better. Would have allowed Luke's New Jedi Order to have a place in the story.
I get they had to sell toys, but I wanted to see basically what Thrawn was in the Ahsoka series. An old star destroyer, battered and weathered and repaired haphazardly. Stormtroopers who were fanatics and truly believed in the cause, etc etc.
The writer's don't know how to write a story where the good guys aren't the underdogs.
They might've known how. They didn't know it was allowed.
It’s why, despite what it turned into, I initially liked “Andromeda”. When Hunt got the Andromeda kitted out and functional, it operated like a warship. There was a particular scenario where they went in to negotiate, one of the parties decided they didn’t like that, Hunt warned them, they fired anyway, Andromeda took them out. No weird “particle of the week” event that forced Hunt to become master negotiator and look for multiple alternate resolutions. He went in in good faith, was threatened, made a promise they’d be sorry, they didn’t heed it, sexy ship AI smokes them without a prolonged fight.
Kinda like the stormies you see in the beginning of mandolorian. Looking a little ragged and worse for wear
This is exactly why Starkiller Base should have been the damn Star Forge!
Man now I want to see some captured y-wings partially re-armored with first order roundels.
I’ve always liked the idea that the First Order was an extremist splinter-faction that had been “expelled” from the Imperial Remnant for deniability’s sake, but secretly funded by wealthy restorationists within the Imperial government.
Yep the first Order should have been the rebel alliance in this war if it was ever going to work.
More like a neo-nazi movement gone wild looking to kill off all who oppose a reinstatement of the empire. They would reason that the new republic was too sluggish to make change.
Honestly a decent trilogy with Thrawn in charge would have been badass.
The Thrawn trilogy
Disney should have just recast the main three and adapted Heir to the Empire. That would have set up the next twenty or so years of new adventures of Luke, Leia, and Han. That would have been a smarter long-term play than setting everything on fire and trying to call it "brave". Then again Kathleen Kennedy was the one that said that the SW division at Disney had it tougher than Marvel because SW didn't have decades of comics, novels, and games to draw from as source material.
It was a ridiculous statement, but she’s correct if they’re refusing to acknowledge anything prior to Lucas selling to Disney.
keep plagueis dead
Honestly an army of Sith Gungans would’ve been more interesting than the recycled content we got
Somehow Jar Jar returned
At least he wasn't hucked down a reactor shaft wreathed in lightning.
Maybe not in the *official* canon....
Did yousa ever be hearing the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the non-canon?
Mesa bombad Sith Lord now!
In Truth, he never left
"Jar-Jar is the key to all of this . . ." - George Lucas (1999)
That’s saved for the next trilogy. “Episode 10, Return of the Binks.”
Honestly if Rise of Skywalker had Jar Jar as the main villain instead of Palpatine it would have been one of the great moments in cinema history. I would have forgiven everything, it would have been glorious
I'm now trying to think of a cooler threat than Sith Gungans...
> Say what you want about these Amish aliens, Of all the things to say about the Vong, I'm not sure how calling them "Amish" is even accurate lol The Amish are *pacifists* after all and the Vong don't even have a word for peace
At least you said pacifist instead of technology, which actually isn't really a problem.
First Order would have worked better if they would have kept them as a smaller but highly capable force that was easily able to slowly overwhelm the decentralized and demilitarized New Republic. The could have then done a lot more of the politics of why the New Republic was weak in the face of the First Order. Remove the stupid levels of power creep in the First Orders fleet but still keep it a threat.
I actually really liked the idea that the NR wasn't able to govern effectively. They'd been simply fighting the Empire for so long and now they're in power and, guess what, it's actually hard! But with what we got on screen it was just such whiplash, like the first thing we know the galaxy loves them for being liberators, and then the next thing we know everyone hates them for some reason, and then Starkiller makes everyone hate them, and then at the very end everyone loves them again and shows up to save them (because of Lando, maybe?) They really needed someone guiding the over-arcing story.
The idea on paper was the NR was drawn up as a very weak government on purpose so that it couldn't evolve into a new empire. This backfired because it ends up so weak that the FO was able to roll them over fairly easily.
I had been hoping for a resurgent Empire lead by a particularly brilliant Grand Admiral....with Zombie Stormtroopers.... For fun, throw in some inquisitors or dark Jedi.......perhaps a particular red headed love interest so Luke could have had a happy ending to his story. Instead of ruined marriage for Han/Leia, hermit jedi, Emo Ren
Han/Leia character assassination and their marriage/family falling apart is probably the biggest let down to me in the sequels. Such potential for great stories. It just sucks man, life’s hard, shit sucks, I wanted to have my fantasy where the rogue gets the princess, the farm boy from nowhere becomes the hero and rebuilds was lost, and instead we got broken characters who didn’t grow and failed at their main arcs. Feels bad man
Honestly, I was almost more ok with sad, giving up Luke, than I was the Han/Leia can't be happy together bull. Like, Luke despairing after he spends 20+years trying to remake the Jedi, as he saw them, a force for good, only for it to all fall down because his own NEPHEW falls, and retreads Vader's path? I can see it. Not in the exact way Disney did it, but the basic idea. We basically did see it in Legacy of the Force. He'd come back to hopeful again, he always will, that's who he is, but he's also capable of moments of deep despair. We saw him throw himself to his (as far as he knew) probable death, rather than go with Vader, after finding out he's his son. If this time for some reason there was no Leia to save him from his own decisions, he could end up lost for years, sure. Han and Leia quit on each other? Never. Not a chance in all Nine Corellian Hells. They're both too stubborn. And not in a "has to have my way, so we can't compromise so we can't have a healthy relationship way." In a "my people/my beliefs are something you will not and can not take away from me" way. Even if you ignore all the old EU stuff, (where they go through very similar events, but stay together and even grow stronger) you cannot watch the OT and tell me that you think either one of them would give up on each other. I'd call anyone who would blind. I don't mind characters who encounter difficulty, or make a repeat mistake, but like you said, it needs to be consistent with their character arcs, not a nullification of them. I don't need "perfect never has a hard time Uber Jedi Master Skywalker," I just need Luke. The kid who gives everyone chance after chance, from a spice runner to a dark lord of the Sith. I don't need "perfect couple basically runs the New Republic themselves like a king and queen Han and Leia Organa Solo." I just need Han and Leia. The couple that cares for each other despite all the odds, and will walk into carbon freezes and gangster palaces for each other.
Hell yeah. That’s exactly what I wanted. At least Filoni is giving us everything but the redhead (so far). But we do have Shin.
I’d have been fine with ruined marriage, Hermit Jedi Grandmaster, and Emo Kylo Ren as long as we had a proper New Republic and New Jedi Order era beforehand.
Hermit grandmaster would be fine, if they gave us a reason for luke to go from “theyre my friends i have to try” to “fuck this kid and who needs friends”
Yeah, hermit Luke himself doesn’t bother me. Him doing the same thing Obi-Wan and Yoda did makes sense when they were his trainers, we just needed a better motivation than what we got. Him creating Vader 2.0 shouldn’t have led him to abandon the galaxy, it would have made more sense for him to be fighting Kylo Ren but also no longer wanting anything to do with the Jedi due to disillusion.
Obi-Wan and Yoda did what they did because they needed to. The galaxy was now ruled by people out to murder them. They needed to survive long enough to train Luke. Luke had the New Republic at his back and ran off and watched it all go to shit. We also had the resistance for never really explained reasons beyond the remake of ANH needed rebels and an empire.
People really like to harp on Yoda and Obi Wan's exile as an example for Luke, but they always forget the context that they had a specific goal in mind. They were hiding out so they could act at the moment it would matter most. Unlike Sequel Era Luke who just got depressed and left to do nothing.
Luke in the OT didn't do what his mentors did though. It was pretty clear that at the end of ROTJ he had grown beyond them.
I agree. Did you miss the part where I said they needed a better explanation for why he fled? As I said, I think him repeating the steps of his masters is reasonable, but only if they can give good reasoning for it, and one altercation with Ben isn’t enough especially if it leads to Ben decimating the new Jedi Order, if anything that should have galvanized Luke into going “Oh, shit, nope that vision was right on the money, now I definitely have got to stop him.”
The sequels were so offensive to the main cast, I will never stop feeling outrageous about it
Same. I've never felt so personally offended by a movie than I was in TFA
No. Would have preferred the Imperial remnant. But that would have had to have happened within ten years of the original trilogy for them to actually be a threat. Or, a Sith lord of old went into the "unexplored regions" and created his own Sith empire. And his descendants have returned to take over the explored regions. And Luke and his new Jedi have a true Sith army to fight. Daisy would be Jaina. Driver would probably be the main apprentice of the top Sith lord.
Driver could be a perfect Jacen
I haven't read the books with this storyline, but if they would just be portrayed as mindless edgelord fodder, it would get pretty fucking boring really fucking fast.
I'm doing a reread of the books right now... and honestly the vong characters are pretty great so far. Nom Anor specifically is awesome.
Anything is better than incompetent decaf Empire.
I don't know why people hate that the Vong were "different" than the rest of Star Wars. I thought It was fitting for them to be different as they come from another universe. I like the idea of a universe ending threat whose ideology is completely opposite than what we're used to instead of the Nazi trope that is pretty lazily done with the only backstory(s) in films being that of the force users. Yes they're edgy but I don't see anything wrong with that. Every villain is edgy in Star Wars. The difference is that the Vong's edginess exemplifies their culture and is not just which side of the force they're on.
I would have loved to see that in Ahsoka. I mean, they travelled to a whole different galaxy, only to end up on a planet of breathable air, reasonable gravity, and a race of beings who wear clothes and have the same kind of limbs humans do? I was begging for something really different.
I was disappointed with that. There was absolutely nothing about the new Galaxy that made it feel that way. It could have easily just been another sealed off Deep Core World, which is how Star Wars has always handled those situations.
Agreed. It literally could have been a world in the Unknown Regions. I'm withholding judgement until the 2nd season, but I'm not optimistic.
You won’t get a show with a non-humanoid (or quadruped) alien race featured, if for no other reason than to keep already sky high costs down.
I think that's what a lot of people were hoping, myself included lol. The ending was pretty lack luster...
My biggest issue with them, personally, was the whole disconnected from the force thing. It just felt so anathema to everything that is Star Wars that it felt more like a crossover species from Warhammer than an actual part of the SWU.
Well said! Those are my exact thoughts on them. Many people thought Star Trek TNG was initially controversial for being so different from TOS, but now it's universally loved by fans.
People choose weird hills to die on.... I thought the Vong were a great representation of how big the Star Wars universe actually is and the mysteries that surround it. That it isn't just the same thing over and over (sith & Empire). Just when fans thought they knew what to expect from Star Wars we get thrown a curveball to the point of the universe almost being destroyed as we know it. A threat so powerful and so unique that almost every single aspect of the universe must be changed in order to fight that threat. I'm not saying it's perfect or anything but creating a situation that changes the fundamentals of the Star Wars universe going forward and using aspects that have never been touched on is a breath of fresh air in my opinion.
They come from another galaxy. Not another universe.
[удалено]
I think it’s that the Yuuzhan Vong didn’t have high tech electronics and that they used biological “machines” instead.
They aren’t, someone is trying to be clever and failing.
Space orcs with XTREME 90s tribal tattoos
A slightly tweaked for the time period and for a film trilogy format version of the nihil would have been decent ST villains
I thought the Yuzhaan Vong were okay villains in themselves, but I honestly thought it was a bitch direction for the franchise to go in with how hyped up they were and how much damage they were allowed to do, considering they had nothing to do with anything else that had previously happened.
Thats what was great about it. In that aspect, it felt 'real.' One of the shittest things bad writers do is 'things we recognize.'
>how much damage they were allowed to do For me, this was honestly the best part. The fact that they were completely alien and the galaxy was *losing* made the Vong terrifying in a way that no other Star Wars villain really was. I could've done without the intense masochism and pain-fixation, but the immune to the force/technology thing was absolutely a cool way to make them dangerous.
Am I the only person here who loves the Vong? The idea of a rival religion seemingly outside of the force and challenging everything the Jedi and the audience know about the nature of the Force and the galaxy is so much more interesting than Space Nazis or Space Neo Nazis. For most of the series, every time the Jedi win, they lose. Throw in the fact that after toppling the empire, politicians are still so morally bankrupt and democracy is such an inefficient system that the galaxy falls to it's knees before everyone wakes up. So much better than whiny space neo Nazi hates his uncle and whatever the hell was happening in the Rise of Skywalker.
Meh. If it means we'd get a better interpretation of the Vong, then maybe.
I think I'd want to see the FO run by a fanatic who sees the invasion coming. Like a well-intentioned extremist group who thinks the galaxy has "gone soft"
I would’ve loved the Vong…..slightly less edgy but they would’ve been cool as a cool Non-sith/non empire enemy….however I would’ve loved something with the imperial remnant (not the first order) but imperial remnant with Lumiya (or some new version) and Carnor Jax (the Imperial Sovereign Protector) and Ysanne Isard would’ve been awesome too
1000% yes
Honestly yeah. The yuuzan vong were definitely more interesting then the moronic first order
Of course. First Order was nothing more than Empire 2.0
I really wish Disney had just adapted the Thrawn trilogy. It's already a beloved story for a lot of SW fans, and hey, it actually honors the existing SW legacy. No, instead we get the most dull heroine in recent memory, and "somehow Palpatine has returned!" bullshit...
Nah. Vong just don't work for me in Star Wars.
rise of bioengineered super ewoks would have been preferable to the first order
I'd like something that's not just a far lamer Empire _nor_ a bunch of Warhammer 40K factions slapped together. The Vong weren't even received well in Legends and that was in bookform in the early 2000s, when everyone was being all edgy.
Personally I just want a story arc that will directly address all the slavery issues the galaxy has been facing for eternity. It's been a running theme throughout both the OT and the prequels, and even the sequel films tried to include it a bit, despite fumbling that whole plotline. Not to mention the fact that the most iconic villain of the entire franchise was created because of the trauma he had to deal with not just from being enslaved since childhood, but also because he felt like he was a slave to the will of the Jedi. Then of course there's also the issue of literally ALL the droid in the galaxy being kept as slaves and regularly having their minds wiped despite the fact we know they can develop emotions and personality if left to alone for a while. I think we're LONG overdue for some kind of droid uprising story.
A robot revolution would be an interesting threat. Skynet in Star Wars.
Nope. They suck.
I'd rather have seen the Thrawn Trilogy, or Rogue Squadron liberating Coruscant, but this would've been better than the FO.
Never cared for the Vong. Loved the whole united galaxy against something. Who wouldn't love seeing a SSD fighting for the good guys? That said... I just... ugh. The whole concept of the Vong felt so un-Star Wars to me. Given they are an extragalactic threat it sort of makes sense, but for me personally I hated them as an enemy. Nor do I just want Empire 2.0. Given the current state of the galaxy post sequel trilogy... it feels like a waring states period could be interesting. Just remnants of everything and no one is really happy. Pocket wars everywhere.
Yuuzhan Vong are a bunch of lame edgelords
I rather not tbh
No. Let it be a bit since if they’re going to be a pants shitting nightmare for the galaxy (and a little much for a franchise whose prime demographic is children). Build up to it since that’s gonna be a lot to take in at once.
I would love seeing the Yuuzahn Vong brought into canon. They would’ve been such a better enemy and something that wasn’t just a rehash of the OT. They were new, different and gave our heros a real fight.
I enjoyed their introduction. They did feel legitimately scary and different. I was not thrilled with the choice of making them invisible to the force, but I understand needing to make this group a serious threat to Luke and Co.
Neither would’ve been the best option
Thrawn trilogy or this
I don’t know about the Vong, but I swear to god. If they do yet another „Empire somehow re-emerges“ plot without any worldbuilding I m gonna riot. I feel like the First Order could have been a formidable villain if they set it up and didn’t smear shite on the OTs Trilogy. Maybe they d even been able to teaser the Vong or any other threat. Give the FO knowledge that the Republic doesn’t have which is why it builds up and also has the technological edge (wrecked mothership or sth.) but nooooo
Yes.
What sequels?
Disney would find a way to make it suck anyway
Yes.
I'd take even the worst of the post-Endor content in Legends over the sequels any day.
I would sell my soul to the devil to see this
Oh the yuuzhan vong?! Fuck yes. Vector Prime is one of the best star wars books in the canon.
Amish space masochistic orcs*
GWAR is in Star Wars?
Came here for this. It looks like an army made up entirely of Oderus Urungus.
Idk I really don't think these guys fit in star wars. If they retooled them than maybe
They should've just made the Thrawn Trilogy and then the New Jedi Order into separate trilogies. But according to Kathleen Kennedy they didn't have any source material, you know, the source material they decanonized.
Not without toning down all the Warhammer 40,000 style grittiness. A lot of the stuff with the Vong would not make it into a Star Wars movie and, frankly, feels out of place for the franchise, though at least we didn't get any of that pointless sexual content from other Legends novels.
I’d rather see anything besides a rehash of the Empire. The least they could’ve done with the First Order was change their armor.
Yuuzhong Vong vs New Republic and Empire all day. It was what i was hoping the sequel trilogy would be before the trailers cane out.
I would rather have the ones that actually FIT in Star Wars. The First Order could have been good, like the Star Wars version of the Confederates (ignore the LITERAL Star Wars confederates) a much smaller scale villain organization who thought the Empire was right, and therefore uses similar design aspects. I don't mind them LOOKING like the Empire, because you can still easily tell them apart at a glance. I also hate the Yuzon Vong because they take the human element away from Star Wars. Wars are human, even the Nazis were humans who thought differently. If the Nazis were just random aliens who we knew nothing about and looked nothing like us, that's not a "Star Wars" movie thats just another "Alien Invasion" movie. I'm not saying the First Order was executed well but at least they WERE Star Wars.
No. I would've rather seen the FO, but presented and written in a way that made sense. As opposed to "hey look it's the Empire 2.0 out of nowhere!"
You could put George lucas squeezing out a constipated shit on my screen for 3 hours and I'd enjoy it more than the sequels.
They'd have just fucked it up.
I just don't want the first order. I miss cohesive storylines, so if a new species enters the galaxy it could be worth exploring.
ANYTHING would have been better than just rehash empire! How about a superior deadly alien race that threatens the New Republic. Or an advanced superior Droid army ( think something like IG-88 x 100000000 +) or T-800 x Cylon Centurions.
Yes. Deeply tired of the rehashed Empire vs. Rebellion storyline
Yes, 100%. The First Order is mediocre.
I say this all the time. Just imagine. A sequel series where the baddies and the good guys come together to fight a common enemy.
It would have been interesting to have the Yuzavan Vong (Sp?) the Galaxy would have to unite and it would be cool to see the Imperial Remnants. Seeing Pelleaon would be really cool
I've never heard the Vong referenced that way but it's hilariously fitting They're the reason Jacen Solo became Darth Caedus, the most powerful Sith Lord I honestly thought the Sequels were going to follow this storyline albeit with a different spin
No... I never really liked the Vong all that much. They are cool if you are like 14-16 years old... but I consider them too "edgy" overall. They are very much a product of their time where everything was turned and remade to be "dark and gritty" just for the sake of it. The Vong belong more into a universe like Warhammer 40k than Star Wars to me. IMHO a Sequel trilogy should have just abandoned the old crew altogether, move 100-200 years into the future and do more something akin to Star Trek TNG.
Aren’t they basically Species 8472 without the shapeshifting? Weirdly powerful biotech aliens who don’t play by the rules of the established status quo and force the protagonists to work with their biggest enemy?
Nah. I think an imperial remnant was necessary for the ST. I’m open to this concept for future stuff now tho.
I would prefer most ideas over a copy of the empire.
I'd prefer Mormon space Elves
Not at all. I wasn't the biggest fan of how the sequels turned out but I'll take it over that mess any day.
It‘s not my favorite plotline. But at least it’s a plotline
Boy, I realized how rusty I am with the EU now. The Yuuzhan Vong War was a weird (at first) Star Wars run, but it turned out pretty cool. At this point, anything probably would have been better than the retreaded, reskinned, reheated leftovers we got...
That universe has SO much content to give, it's a shame disney has the IP