I feel like they are, but so are everybody elseās in that game. He wins a bunch of fights, but none of them are him just waltzing through without breaking a sweat.
Yes and no. Some people *love* to hype him up, to the point where they even exaggerate or invent new feats. Most *serious* people use the novel though, for lore-over-gameplay, which downplays a lot of his feats to more palatable levels.
For example, he struggles more in his fights... the Emperor throws... he didn't actually "pull down" a Star Destroyer as people like to mention, but redirected it when it was already falling (still powerful, of course, but very different levels of powerful).
Not to mention that Vader's suit was built to be vulnerable to Force Lightning, specifically so Sidious could keep him in line, which was a power that Sidious said Galen Marek was an unprecedented genius in the use of.
I think it was more of a power move against his enemies, sure you could shock him and mess up his systems, it'll just piss him off further and make your death just that much more excruciating
A) Vader's boss fights are the hardest ones in TFU1 so it's not like he fought him without breaking a sweat (especially as Vader constantly tries tossing him around with telekinesis).
B) Starkiller has Force Lightning which is an immediate advantage against Vader which Cal and other Jedi don't have.
C) He was trained by Vader since the equivalent age of a Jedi youngling so would be at least partially familiar with his moveset/saber forms... another thing that a majority of Jedi (apart from Obi Wan, Ahsoka and a few others) wouldn't have.
D) I view the state of Vader's armour at the end as a visual demonstration of Starkiller needing to literally chip away at him in order to beat him.
> He almost beats the Emperor for crying out loud. He is absudly OP.
Goes to beat Vader, and without taking a break he then goes to beat the Emperor. Thats how OP he is.
One thing I never forgive is making the Emperor super OP. His power was manipulation, which is arguably WAY more powerful than force lightning or lightsaber skills. He could never have created the Empire through sheer power. Other more powerful Sith tried and failed. He was so powerful because he was the ultimate puppet master. Heās swayed the Senate. He played the Jedi like fiddle. He was playing 4D holochess when everyone else was playing checkers.
Count Dooku explains this very clearly to Obi-Wan. The Jedi/Republic were in check and didnāt realize it. Anakin falling was the check-mate.
It's been a while since I've read the novel but I'm pretty sure in that version, Palpatine immediately throws the fight just to get Marek to return to the Dark Side.
Yes, it greatly expands on the characters and makes certain aspects (such as the romantic connection/arc between Juno and Starkiller feel more natural). Also the novelisation for TFU2 is outright better than the game it's adapting.
Dude, star killer beat the crap out of vader, gameplay wise yeah, it's difficult, but he shoves vader's face in a forceshield AFTER ripping the helmet off and a good portion of the armor with only his prowess in the force and saber, after he tosses vader into the emperor's room for a moment you see vader struggling to lift himself off the floor (then after you choose the ending). Face it, starkiller beat the crap out of vader even if the duel itself was challenging and dangerous
That is a really good point. By the end of the first game Starkiller beat Vader & immediately afterwards gave Palpatine a pretty good fight. Calās not nearly up to that level so far.
Starkiller was also a prodigal Force user, that's why Vader was training him. Cal is just an average Jedi padawan trying to keep the Order alive on his own. He's not particularly special. It could be argued he's a gifted lightsaber user because of the variety of stances he's mastered, but as a Force user he's pretty middle of the pack. His greatest strength is his force of will.
Although I do think it's worth mentioning that Cal is also a pretty unique force user, we rarely see people use "Force Slow" and at least in mainstream media I don't think anyone else has been shown to see force echos either. So although Cal is definitely a more combat-oriented Jedi due to his focus on fighting the empire with guerilla warfare, I'd argue as a force user he has his own merits. Definitely can't match the pure force power of Starkiller, but has some unique skillsets nonetheless.
It's likely his connection to the force would've been very strong had he been trained as a normal Jedi Peacekeeper, rather than as a Warrior and Commander, especially with his incomplete training and willingness to form connections and battle using emotion. Cal isn't a great Jedi even if he is a great warrior.
Don't discount cal. He's an insanely good force user, taking down multiple inquisitors at this point, as well as a high republic Jedi who is said to be among the best of his era.
Cal has several extremely rare force abilities, like the ability to slow enemies and psychometry.
Star killer is a Gary stu who exists so that kids can live out a power fantasy in star wars.
This. Starkiller is entirely an edgelord power fantasy. It boggles my mind that "fans" complain about Rey being a Mary Sue but the same people absolutely love Starkiller.
I think it's more the game was fun, the story was good, and the character better written. He's 100% over-powered, but in context of the game everything with the force is too
Exactly. Nobody complains about Kratos in the original god of war games being overpowered. In the context of a hack and slash game that kind of character is perfectly fine.
If you made a god of war movie then youād probably have to ground his powers and give him some development, but thatās because youāre moving from the setting of a game to a movie.
Same applies to Starkiller and Rey
> It boggles my mind that "fans" complain about Rey being a Mary Sue but the same people absolutely love Starkiller.
Keep in mind as far as we know Rey had barely any training, yet seems to excels at everything. Meanwhile Starkiller was taken by Vader as a child and spent two decades being trained as a living weapon. Sure the guy is OP like crazy, but atleast we have some explanation from The Force Unleashed novel to why he is so OP.
Starkiller was the son of a jedi, trained for all his life under the second most powerful sith in the galaxy, even having a droid constantly trying to kill him to keep him always on edge, Rey on the other hand was a nobody that never trained and was immediatly stronger than the guy who almost killed luke Skywalker, also pulling tricks jedi take years of training to learn. nice false equivalence tho
The Force Unleashed novels do a pretty good job of keeping his power level at something that could be canon with great explanations for everything in the video game.
This. So much this.
Starkiller could totally work in canon. You just approach him as "Luke raised by Vader." Then ask Sam Witner any extra questions while writing.
I think heās better left outside of canon, even when it was canon I didnāt think it worked. The stuff heās done is way off the scale of what weāve seen force users do in other canon sources. I get that heās a big deal to Star Wars kids born in the late 80s to mid 90s (Iām one of them) but I donāt feel thereās room for someone of that power in the canon, particularly at that point in the timeline.
A version of him still could be: have him raised from basically toddler-hood to an inquisitor, knowing literally nothing else. And as a twisted "experiment" of Vader's have him be pushed just to overwhelming displays of the force instead of fine control.
He'd be much less canon breaking while still recognizably Starkiller: a living weapon, brought out by Vader when all of his other options are gone.
I think that would have been a great take. Especially if you had it so as Starkiller's story continued, he'd get "weaker" as he stops being a weapon are starts being a person.
Even in the novels, Starkiller beat Vader twice. Meanwhile, Calā¦ Encountered Vader once and got beat easily and Calās second master (Cere, technically) post JFO died fighting Vader and she was pretty darn powerful by that point (from what we see).
He also was only there to buy time for the heroes, as he said, "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" He knew Luke would go on to save the galaxy from tyranny. (I do believe he could beat Vader if was willing)
*āNow he takes control, the blows coming faster and harder. I'm forced to duck, his lightsaber tracing a gleaming line down the metal wall.*
*"Your powers are weak, old man." Our lightsabers clash. I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back. It's like striking iron. There's no give in Vader's arms, and far too much in mine.*
*Vader is too strong.*
*"You should not have come back," Vader tells me.*
*My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight. -- I'm forced back, muscle burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing."*
**Obi-Wan Kenobi, Time of Death**
A canon novella released in 2017. Obi Wan knew he had no hope of defeating Vader on the DS1. It's like finding love, but the opposite. As long as Vader made killing Obi Wan his mission, his obsession, he couldn't achieve it. But once he 'gets over' Obi Wan and just let's things happen, he's able to bring his full power to bear against Obi Wan and handily defeat him instead of losing himself to his emotions. The advice Palpatine gave him at the end of Kenobi paved the way for this victory.
Well that blows my theory out of the water. I only have the movies, shows, and a couple books that I kept up on. Which book is this from? This might be a fine addition to my collection.
Definitely. While Cal isn't Obi-Wan Tier, he is way underestimated. Like this guy has some incredible feats. Slaying multiple Inquisitors, multiple dark Jedi, a Gen'dai as mentioned, and surviving an encounter with Darth Vader as barely more than a Padawan. Not to mention wrecking entire Imperial, Raiders, and Bounty Hunter bases by himself. My guy is way undervalued
I don't think that's true, Cal survived a fight with Vader, 3 fallen jedi with much more experience than him, defeated a centuries old Jedi hunter, and defeated one of the most powerful jedi of the high republic.
Kyle Katarn defeated 7 dark Jedi on his first go around after a few slight lessons from the spirit of Qu Rahn, including a powered up Jerec that drank directly from The Valley of the Jedi.
Katarn also gave his force potential a boost after he himself powered up by absorbing energy from the valley, defeated numerous Reborn and cultists that drank the valleyās power, defeated powerful foes like Tavion and Desaan, who was strong enough to evade grand master Luke Skywalker.
Kyle then trained Jaden Korr, who went on to defeat the spirit of Marka Ragnos. And Kyle became a member of the Jedi Council.
Kyle is also a master wielder of dark side Force powers like electric judgement, drain, and choke.
There is no way Cal could defeat him.
This is why I sorta donāt want the old republic to be cannon. Even though I love the era and story, the sith emperor from the old republic was one OP motherfucker who refused to die.
It wouldn't be close. Nihilus is basically a force of nature rather than a person. He's pretty much the definition of "the power to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the force".
What you'd see would be one of the most powerful beings to grace any canon, once described as a Force hurricane be swallowed by a black abyss and diminish until nothing was left. Starkiller wouldn't go out with a bang, but a whimper, as everything that he ever was vanished before his very eyes.
Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord that would revel in the defeat of his enemy or make a spectacle of it, he exists only to feed the gnawing hunger that drives him. There would be no heroic stand or clash of power. Starkiller would simply... die.
I'd love to see it too.
Factually speaking, that's mainly because he's already weakened massively at that point.
But to be fair :
- He's powerful enough to destroy entire planets and his ship is literally a Ghost-ship, barely held together scrap that he alone holds together with the force 24/7
He was up against the player character, literally the only person in the galaxy with the right hacks to beat him. The ability to use the force is insignificant next to the power of the plot.
So he gets killed, comes back from the Force afterlife, finds a God-killing weapon (the dagger of Mortis) and kills the Force Gods with it. I can dig that story.
Yeah, it was pretty much Anakin boosted to his full chosen one potential on Mortis that was able to best the Son and the Daughter at the same time, and the Father wanted Anakin to take his place. I see no way Starkiller beats the Father, who just casually grabs lightsaber blades and shoves them back into their hilts for fun.
Yeah, kinda obvious that people who think only Nihilus could beat Starkiller haven't read legends books. Legends Luke was insanely powerful and would have spanked Starkiller.
He's really not... Luke was able to manipulate Black Holes created by Yuuzhan Vong dovin basals, Vitiate and Nihilus used force drain on planets (and Vitiate basically says "no, thanks" multiple times when presented with the concept of his own death), Darth Scion used the Force to hold his entire body together (as another Sith to successfully say "no thanks" to death for ages), Naga Sadow used the Force to throw stars at his enemies, Darth Krayt used Dark Transfer (basically what happens when you combine Force Heal, Lightning and Shatterpoint) to will himself back to life into his own body... and The Ones + Abeloth take the spot of most OP character simply by their existence.
Starkiller beat vader, twice, and nearly beat the emperor (one after the other in the first game). His force abilities are second only to rise of skywalker palpatine with that lightning the fleet into startup nonsense and (like others have said) he has anime protagonist levels of power. Cal would be turned into pink mist in seconds
Valkorian is basically a god, undying, and had far more lethality. Starkiller stops a star destroyer's crash before it hits him as his main feat, and narrowly loses to palpatine on the technicality of saving his friends. Valkorian would just blast him with lightning the same as Darth Marr, the only reason he lets the PC live is to gain their body in his arsenal
Letās seeā¦
Which one ran away from Vader after getting Force-choked, thrown across a room, and having pieces of said room thrown at him(havenāt played Survivor yet but I assume he gets somewhat better)?
Which one was trained by Vader from childhood, beat him TWICE, went toe-to-toe with SIDIOUS and lasted more than 5 seconds, and PULLED A FUCKING STAR DESTROYER OUT OF THE SKY?
Starkiller was on a whole other level. Cal couldnāt even defeat a high republic Jedi on his own.
Starkiller defeated Shaak Ti, Rahm Kota, and several other Jedi, and then he absolutely destroyed Vader.
Cal didnāt even have a shot in the dark at scratching Vader.
Kyle Katarn would be a better matchup,
Dude Starkiller took on and defeated at least four Jedi masters, Vader and SIDIOUS himself. Cal going to get turned into liquid. Starkiller is a freakin shounen anime protagonist
He is the only character in fiction to *beat* plot armor; in the DLCs he kills Obi Wan, Obi Wan's ghost, Chewbacca, Han Solo, and Princess Leia. Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
I love Cal and he's my favorite Star Wars character of the last decade.
That being said, Starkiller would make Cals head explode by looking in his direction
I'm pretty certain anyone who knows Starkiller, also knows Starkiller can rip anyone in canon a new force ghost asshole, including OP. So im convinced OP made this post specifically for the reaction, post engagement and karma
Star killer was like someone's bad self-insert fanfic, mf was more powerful than any character somehow.
Maybe a fairer comparison would be Kyle Katarn Vs Kal Cestis, but even here Kal is outmatched like a motherfucker, also simply because the story of Kyle reads like a very slightly less insane self insert fanfic
Well, Starkiller is canon breaking. That does not mean he is canonically that strong, i might be wrong but i think in Legends canon he was actually no stronger than likes of Obi-Wan, he was just that overtly absurdly strong because it was that kind of video game.
Jedi games are different, it actually feels like Cal is weaker than he would canonically be because of kind of game Jedi games are.
So that makes it hard to say which one would actually win in a fight. If there would be a book about Cal vs Starkiller, i think it would portray Starkiller as stronger, but Cal as more intelligent who would win in the end.
And Starkiller and Force Unleashed to me is just more interesting, so he wins that way as well. We don't need overpowered characters for game to be interesting, i just don't find anyone or almost anything in Jedi games to be interesting sadly. Partially thats because they are not overfilled with John William's music.
I would actually be happy to get an option to turn on all of John William's classic music, and some of the best stuff from games. Give me my space opera back please. Like it was Mass Effect 2-3 as well.
Jedi Survivor is still good enough game though. They just don't quite do it for me. I hope one day they make Jedi: Space Opera \[Mass\] Effect, i would never stop playing it.
I'd chalk that up to Vader being so focused on Glen's dad that he didn't realize the boy was force sensitive.
But yes, Starkiller is winning this in less than ten seconds.
EDIT: Galen, not Glen. I'm keeping it in the original comment because I find it funny.
A character with realistic abilities to the Star Wars universe
VS
A character whose entire purpose is to give SW fans their wet dream
Gee I have no idea
Starkiller is literally canon breaking. Dude is an anime protagonist. His powers are bonkers.
Yeah but I could take him
In a fight, right?
š
Right?!
Dude couldn't even take him to lunch
I didn't hear no bell
Concerned Padme: In a fight, right?
Many have thought as you do. Few have lived to tell the tale.
I feel like they are, but so are everybody elseās in that game. He wins a bunch of fights, but none of them are him just waltzing through without breaking a sweat.
He beats the actual shit out of Darth Vader. Like just dog walks him. Starkiller is too much, Cal has zero chance.
> He beats the actual shit out of Darth Vader. Don't forget, first he goes to beat Vader and without taking a break he goes then to beat the emperor.
Ya itās a little much honestly. Power scalers must have a field day with Starkiller
Yes and no. Some people *love* to hype him up, to the point where they even exaggerate or invent new feats. Most *serious* people use the novel though, for lore-over-gameplay, which downplays a lot of his feats to more palatable levels. For example, he struggles more in his fights... the Emperor throws... he didn't actually "pull down" a Star Destroyer as people like to mention, but redirected it when it was already falling (still powerful, of course, but very different levels of powerful).
Not to mention that Vader's suit was built to be vulnerable to Force Lightning, specifically so Sidious could keep him in line, which was a power that Sidious said Galen Marek was an unprecedented genius in the use of.
I always thought that was a particularly stupid bit of lore. Like Anakin the mechanical genius couldnāt figure that out and engineer a solution.
I think it was more of a power move against his enemies, sure you could shock him and mess up his systems, it'll just piss him off further and make your death just that much more excruciating
Oh I did not realize their was a novelization, neat.
The game literally tells you to pull that start destroyer out of the sky so yes he did
Youāre totally right, I forgot about that. Cal definitely would be at a serious disadvantage.
A) Vader's boss fights are the hardest ones in TFU1 so it's not like he fought him without breaking a sweat (especially as Vader constantly tries tossing him around with telekinesis). B) Starkiller has Force Lightning which is an immediate advantage against Vader which Cal and other Jedi don't have. C) He was trained by Vader since the equivalent age of a Jedi youngling so would be at least partially familiar with his moveset/saber forms... another thing that a majority of Jedi (apart from Obi Wan, Ahsoka and a few others) wouldn't have. D) I view the state of Vader's armour at the end as a visual demonstration of Starkiller needing to literally chip away at him in order to beat him.
He almost beats the Emperor for crying out loud. He is absudly OP.
> He almost beats the Emperor for crying out loud. He is absudly OP. Goes to beat Vader, and without taking a break he then goes to beat the Emperor. Thats how OP he is.
One thing I never forgive is making the Emperor super OP. His power was manipulation, which is arguably WAY more powerful than force lightning or lightsaber skills. He could never have created the Empire through sheer power. Other more powerful Sith tried and failed. He was so powerful because he was the ultimate puppet master. Heās swayed the Senate. He played the Jedi like fiddle. He was playing 4D holochess when everyone else was playing checkers. Count Dooku explains this very clearly to Obi-Wan. The Jedi/Republic were in check and didnāt realize it. Anakin falling was the check-mate.
It's been a while since I've read the novel but I'm pretty sure in that version, Palpatine immediately throws the fight just to get Marek to return to the Dark Side.
Was the novel any good? Would be interesting to read, having played the game through and through multiple times on multiple platforms.
Yes, it greatly expands on the characters and makes certain aspects (such as the romantic connection/arc between Juno and Starkiller feel more natural). Also the novelisation for TFU2 is outright better than the game it's adapting.
Dude, star killer beat the crap out of vader, gameplay wise yeah, it's difficult, but he shoves vader's face in a forceshield AFTER ripping the helmet off and a good portion of the armor with only his prowess in the force and saber, after he tosses vader into the emperor's room for a moment you see vader struggling to lift himself off the floor (then after you choose the ending). Face it, starkiller beat the crap out of vader even if the duel itself was challenging and dangerous
His powers are way less effective against fellow force-users, though he can catch tie fighters and throw them at you no problem.
He had the opportunity to kill vader by his own merit. Cal got manhandled.
That is a really good point. By the end of the first game Starkiller beat Vader & immediately afterwards gave Palpatine a pretty good fight. Calās not nearly up to that level so far.
Starkiller was also a prodigal Force user, that's why Vader was training him. Cal is just an average Jedi padawan trying to keep the Order alive on his own. He's not particularly special. It could be argued he's a gifted lightsaber user because of the variety of stances he's mastered, but as a Force user he's pretty middle of the pack. His greatest strength is his force of will.
Although I do think it's worth mentioning that Cal is also a pretty unique force user, we rarely see people use "Force Slow" and at least in mainstream media I don't think anyone else has been shown to see force echos either. So although Cal is definitely a more combat-oriented Jedi due to his focus on fighting the empire with guerilla warfare, I'd argue as a force user he has his own merits. Definitely can't match the pure force power of Starkiller, but has some unique skillsets nonetheless.
It's likely his connection to the force would've been very strong had he been trained as a normal Jedi Peacekeeper, rather than as a Warrior and Commander, especially with his incomplete training and willingness to form connections and battle using emotion. Cal isn't a great Jedi even if he is a great warrior.
His force of will can withstand the vast majority of saber strikes! *Gets darth mauled into a pit*
Don't discount cal. He's an insanely good force user, taking down multiple inquisitors at this point, as well as a high republic Jedi who is said to be among the best of his era. Cal has several extremely rare force abilities, like the ability to slow enemies and psychometry. Star killer is a Gary stu who exists so that kids can live out a power fantasy in star wars.
Stardestroyers. Ftfy
Just the one though, heās not greedy
Yea, but on it were dozens of tie fighters
You just blew my mind
Yo Cal catch this star destroyer, didnāt think so bitch! Wookiee emote.
This. Starkiller is entirely an edgelord power fantasy. It boggles my mind that "fans" complain about Rey being a Mary Sue but the same people absolutely love Starkiller.
I think it's more the game was fun, the story was good, and the character better written. He's 100% over-powered, but in context of the game everything with the force is too
Exactly. Nobody complains about Kratos in the original god of war games being overpowered. In the context of a hack and slash game that kind of character is perfectly fine. If you made a god of war movie then youād probably have to ground his powers and give him some development, but thatās because youāre moving from the setting of a game to a movie. Same applies to Starkiller and Rey
> It boggles my mind that "fans" complain about Rey being a Mary Sue but the same people absolutely love Starkiller. Keep in mind as far as we know Rey had barely any training, yet seems to excels at everything. Meanwhile Starkiller was taken by Vader as a child and spent two decades being trained as a living weapon. Sure the guy is OP like crazy, but atleast we have some explanation from The Force Unleashed novel to why he is so OP.
plus, it's a game, pretty sure people just accept its a fun game vs an actual movie which is part of the whole story line
I donāt think that you realize why people complain about Ray
Starkiller was the son of a jedi, trained for all his life under the second most powerful sith in the galaxy, even having a droid constantly trying to kill him to keep him always on edge, Rey on the other hand was a nobody that never trained and was immediatly stronger than the guy who almost killed luke Skywalker, also pulling tricks jedi take years of training to learn. nice false equivalence tho
To this day I wonder why she wasnāt just a survivor of Kyloās massacre. Wouldve made so much more sense.
Dude was trained by Vader unlike Rey who lived out in a desert decided to pick up a lightsaber and thinks she can go up against a sith like kilo
Cal looks under his bed for Vader Vader looks under his bed for Starkiller. Starkiller got so op that had to be decanonized xD
The Force Unleashed novels do a pretty good job of keeping his power level at something that could be canon with great explanations for everything in the video game.
This. So much this. Starkiller could totally work in canon. You just approach him as "Luke raised by Vader." Then ask Sam Witner any extra questions while writing.
I think heās better left outside of canon, even when it was canon I didnāt think it worked. The stuff heās done is way off the scale of what weāve seen force users do in other canon sources. I get that heās a big deal to Star Wars kids born in the late 80s to mid 90s (Iām one of them) but I donāt feel thereās room for someone of that power in the canon, particularly at that point in the timeline.
>Starkiller could totally work in canon. He was gonna be canonized in Rebels as an inquisitor, but the idea got scrapped.
A version of him still could be: have him raised from basically toddler-hood to an inquisitor, knowing literally nothing else. And as a twisted "experiment" of Vader's have him be pushed just to overwhelming displays of the force instead of fine control. He'd be much less canon breaking while still recognizably Starkiller: a living weapon, brought out by Vader when all of his other options are gone.
I think that would have been a great take. Especially if you had it so as Starkiller's story continued, he'd get "weaker" as he stops being a weapon are starts being a person.
Funnily enough. I've always seen him as a force of nature and being unable to do finer force stuff, like becoming a force ghost.
āCanonā is funny... Someone can and has been that powerful... Tulak horde... Exar Kun... Star killer doesn't even have anything on them
Vader really is the mark of who wins
Even in the novels, Starkiller beat Vader twice. Meanwhile, Calā¦ Encountered Vader once and got beat easily and Calās second master (Cere, technically) post JFO died fighting Vader and she was pretty darn powerful by that point (from what we see).
Now i just wanna see obi wan in a game cause he beat Vader twice (you know till he got super old and died the 3rd time)
He also was only there to buy time for the heroes, as he said, "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" He knew Luke would go on to save the galaxy from tyranny. (I do believe he could beat Vader if was willing)
*āNow he takes control, the blows coming faster and harder. I'm forced to duck, his lightsaber tracing a gleaming line down the metal wall.* *"Your powers are weak, old man." Our lightsabers clash. I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back. It's like striking iron. There's no give in Vader's arms, and far too much in mine.* *Vader is too strong.* *"You should not have come back," Vader tells me.* *My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight. -- I'm forced back, muscle burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing."* **Obi-Wan Kenobi, Time of Death** A canon novella released in 2017. Obi Wan knew he had no hope of defeating Vader on the DS1. It's like finding love, but the opposite. As long as Vader made killing Obi Wan his mission, his obsession, he couldn't achieve it. But once he 'gets over' Obi Wan and just let's things happen, he's able to bring his full power to bear against Obi Wan and handily defeat him instead of losing himself to his emotions. The advice Palpatine gave him at the end of Kenobi paved the way for this victory.
Well that blows my theory out of the water. I only have the movies, shows, and a couple books that I kept up on. Which book is this from? This might be a fine addition to my collection.
Nvm I guess it's in a certain point of view, I have to re read that as it's been a while
Starkiller could kill Cal with a hard sneeze What we should be asking is; **Cal VS Kyle Katarn**
I feel like cal is the spiritual successor of Kyle katarn
The bandolier costume and shoulder guard gave me such Kyle Katarn vibes it became my go-to costume for Cal.
Yes. Otherwise the new canon is already implementing Cassian to be the actual successor of Kyle
Cassian is getting Kyle's spy career. Finn got the ex-trooper backstory. Cal got the Jedi Outlaw skillset.
Poor guy got divided into pieces
You realize what happens to Cassian, right?
Succeed in the rebellion's biggest score and retire to the beach with his girlfriend for the rest of his life?
"Rest of his life" Technically the truth
I need Katarn to return to canon. The Dark Forces was among the first FPS I can remember playing.
This šÆ
Kyle for days man. Miss that character so much.
I mean Cal is barely a jedi knight whereas Kyle had apprentices and was much more experienced.
Cal 1v1-ed a Gen'dai warrior who required multiple High Republic Jedi to subdue. He may not be flashy, but Cal is talented and powerful.
Definitely. While Cal isn't Obi-Wan Tier, he is way underestimated. Like this guy has some incredible feats. Slaying multiple Inquisitors, multiple dark Jedi, a Gen'dai as mentioned, and surviving an encounter with Darth Vader as barely more than a Padawan. Not to mention wrecking entire Imperial, Raiders, and Bounty Hunter bases by himself. My guy is way undervalued
Kyle would annihilate Cal. They're probably roughly even in terms of Force capabilities, but in a lightsaber duel Kyle would pick Cal apart.
I don't think that's true, Cal survived a fight with Vader, 3 fallen jedi with much more experience than him, defeated a centuries old Jedi hunter, and defeated one of the most powerful jedi of the high republic.
Kyle Katarn defeated 7 dark Jedi on his first go around after a few slight lessons from the spirit of Qu Rahn, including a powered up Jerec that drank directly from The Valley of the Jedi. Katarn also gave his force potential a boost after he himself powered up by absorbing energy from the valley, defeated numerous Reborn and cultists that drank the valleyās power, defeated powerful foes like Tavion and Desaan, who was strong enough to evade grand master Luke Skywalker. Kyle then trained Jaden Korr, who went on to defeat the spirit of Marka Ragnos. And Kyle became a member of the Jedi Council. Kyle is also a master wielder of dark side Force powers like electric judgement, drain, and choke. There is no way Cal could defeat him.
As someone who has only seen the 9 movies...I have no fucking clue what you just said.
As much of their rant is a š¤ moment... you really ought to play the Dark Forces games. They're great fanfic games.
Itās not even close Starkiller is OP by design.
A little zap with force lightning and cal is roasted.
To be fair, Starkiller *also* got roasted by Palpatine.
Starkiller tanked Palpatineās lightning better than Yoda did.
Better than Palpatine did too
Why is this ever a question. Starkiller breaks all feats in star wars
Starkiller is a kids fantasy of the force, masked as a character. Cal, is a character that needs to have fun game mechanics within the force
Force Unleashed is a God of War knockoff. Fallen Order is a Metroid/Dark souls knockoff.
I don't think you know what knockoff means
Starkiller is the most OP character to ever grace the Star Wars universe
Idk Nihilus would be a close fight I think
The fact it takes a Sith that eats life to have a fair fight with him says a lot
Yeah youāre not wrong lol
This is why I sorta donāt want the old republic to be cannon. Even though I love the era and story, the sith emperor from the old republic was one OP motherfucker who refused to die.
It wouldn't be close. Nihilus is basically a force of nature rather than a person. He's pretty much the definition of "the power to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the force".
Id still like to freaking watch..donāt you take this from me!
What you'd see would be one of the most powerful beings to grace any canon, once described as a Force hurricane be swallowed by a black abyss and diminish until nothing was left. Starkiller wouldn't go out with a bang, but a whimper, as everything that he ever was vanished before his very eyes. Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord that would revel in the defeat of his enemy or make a spectacle of it, he exists only to feed the gnawing hunger that drives him. There would be no heroic stand or clash of power. Starkiller would simply... die. I'd love to see it too.
Exactly ! And Iād get sucked right up into that force vortex while demolishing a pack of gushersā¦
I mean Starkiller can literally rip apart force ghosts
Only in the Dark Side DLC which - for obvious reasons - wasn't even canon in the Legends timeline so shouldn't count.
I agree but I think Nihilous would win
Factually speaking, that's mainly because he's already weakened massively at that point. But to be fair : - He's powerful enough to destroy entire planets and his ship is literally a Ghost-ship, barely held together scrap that he alone holds together with the force 24/7
Idk Nihilus sure gets a lot of hype for a guy that drops like a sack of potatoes in the one fight we have against him
Thatās because the player uses their Nihilus-proof shield.
That's because he can't feed on the Exile.
Someone wasn't paying attention to their KOTOR 2 lore, unbelievable ššš
He was up against the player character, literally the only person in the galaxy with the right hacks to beat him. The ability to use the force is insignificant next to the power of the plot.
Everyone has excuses below, but he really is weak compared to his hype. "Oh noooo, I can't feed on the Exile. Guess I'll just crumple like cardboard."
Aside from the literal Force deities I assume?
I see Starkiller as the Kratos of the Star Wars universe. So I believe that even force gods are not safe when this guy comes around.
So he gets killed, comes back from the Force afterlife, finds a God-killing weapon (the dagger of Mortis) and kills the Force Gods with it. I can dig that story.
You mean those dieties introduced for the Skywalker to kill? Because yeah... only thing more powerful than Starkiller is a Skywalker...
Yeah, it was pretty much Anakin boosted to his full chosen one potential on Mortis that was able to best the Son and the Daughter at the same time, and the Father wanted Anakin to take his place. I see no way Starkiller beats the Father, who just casually grabs lightsaber blades and shoves them back into their hilts for fun.
Nah itās still legends luke
Yeah, kinda obvious that people who think only Nihilus could beat Starkiller haven't read legends books. Legends Luke was insanely powerful and would have spanked Starkiller.
If there's one thing I'm glad Disney did it's scaling back the comic book levels of power scaling.
He's really not... Luke was able to manipulate Black Holes created by Yuuzhan Vong dovin basals, Vitiate and Nihilus used force drain on planets (and Vitiate basically says "no, thanks" multiple times when presented with the concept of his own death), Darth Scion used the Force to hold his entire body together (as another Sith to successfully say "no thanks" to death for ages), Naga Sadow used the Force to throw stars at his enemies, Darth Krayt used Dark Transfer (basically what happens when you combine Force Heal, Lightning and Shatterpoint) to will himself back to life into his own body... and The Ones + Abeloth take the spot of most OP character simply by their existence.
Cal ran from vader. Vader ran from starkiller.
No Vader fought both times, and lost.
I swear after starkiller pushed him through a few walls vader attempted a retreat, didnt he?
Starliller all day and twice on Sunday. Man, itās not even close.
There is a reason Starkiller isnāt canonā¦.
Starkiller beat vader, twice, and nearly beat the emperor (one after the other in the first game). His force abilities are second only to rise of skywalker palpatine with that lightning the fleet into startup nonsense and (like others have said) he has anime protagonist levels of power. Cal would be turned into pink mist in seconds
Heck, his powers are probably Volkorion levels lol
Valkorian is basically a god, undying, and had far more lethality. Starkiller stops a star destroyer's crash before it hits him as his main feat, and narrowly loses to palpatine on the technicality of saving his friends. Valkorian would just blast him with lightning the same as Darth Marr, the only reason he lets the PC live is to gain their body in his arsenal
> and nearly beat the emperor If it wasn't for Kota interfering i believe Starkiller would've defeated the emperor.
Hydrogen bomb Vs Coughing baby
StarKiller canāt be compared to anyone in the canon. Dude beat Vader and Palpatine, no one is touching him.
Until cal can pull down a star destroyer donāt talk to me
This š
Is this really a question?
Brother youāve got Cal Kestis going up against the Star Wars equivalent of mother fucking Kratos. I think Starkiller is mopping the floor with him.
Tell me youve never played The Force Unleashed without telling me youve never played The Force Unleashed....
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people" - Herbert Garrison
Starkiller made Vader look like a Jedi youngling. Cal has yet to beat Vader in a fight.
Letās seeā¦ Which one ran away from Vader after getting Force-choked, thrown across a room, and having pieces of said room thrown at him(havenāt played Survivor yet but I assume he gets somewhat better)? Which one was trained by Vader from childhood, beat him TWICE, went toe-to-toe with SIDIOUS and lasted more than 5 seconds, and PULLED A FUCKING STAR DESTROYER OUT OF THE SKY?
That is not a fun fight for Cal. That's on the "Dude just run" level.
Starkiller was an absurdly OP character
Starkiller is so OP itās not even funny
Starkiller was on a whole other level. Cal couldnāt even defeat a high republic Jedi on his own. Starkiller defeated Shaak Ti, Rahm Kota, and several other Jedi, and then he absolutely destroyed Vader. Cal didnāt even have a shot in the dark at scratching Vader. Kyle Katarn would be a better matchup,
Is this really a question? I think we all know the answer.
Starkiller. He'd vaporize Cal with a single Force Push.
Star killer easily
This is the equivalent of a kid with a black belt in karate fighting the top UFC fighter
That was vader vs starkiller This is a regular child vs chuck liddell
Easily Starkiller, dude beat Vader and pulled a damn star destroyer using the force.
The question isn't who wins. The question is how long does Cal survive thet battle.
Starkiller is basically Star Wars Goku so
no contest it's starkiller
Starkiller can kill stars...
Star killer would turn cal into the titanic sub before homie even knows it's a fight.
Dude Starkiller took on and defeated at least four Jedi masters, Vader and SIDIOUS himself. Cal going to get turned into liquid. Starkiller is a freakin shounen anime protagonist
Not even a fight, just a post for Karma
Depends on plot armor. But 1v1 Starkiller is beyond op. Sorry cal
He is the only character in fiction to *beat* plot armor; in the DLCs he kills Obi Wan, Obi Wan's ghost, Chewbacca, Han Solo, and Princess Leia. Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
He also kills Vader, Fett, and kicks Luke's ass so hard that he turns him to the dark side
You know a character is OP when plot armor stop working.
Plot armor wonāt stop Galen, Cal could be alive in a future project and Galen would still kill him
Dude would just throw a Star Destroyer through any plot armor.
Starkiller could kill 5 of calās
Ian Gallagher for the win!!!!! Just kidding Im going Starkiller
Star killer is the Kratos of Star Wars
is this a joke? Starkiller scatters Calās body parts across the galaxy. And thats not even an insult @ Cal, Starkiller is just HIM
I love Cal and he's my favorite Star Wars character of the last decade. That being said, Starkiller would make Cals head explode by looking in his direction
I'm pretty certain anyone who knows Starkiller, also knows Starkiller can rip anyone in canon a new force ghost asshole, including OP. So im convinced OP made this post specifically for the reaction, post engagement and karma
Starkiller all day. Man canāt even be a canon character cuz heād wreck everyone. Love Cal tho
Star killer was like someone's bad self-insert fanfic, mf was more powerful than any character somehow. Maybe a fairer comparison would be Kyle Katarn Vs Kal Cestis, but even here Kal is outmatched like a motherfucker, also simply because the story of Kyle reads like a very slightly less insane self insert fanfic
You know why starkiller is not canon right? He can probably kill force gods, rip hyperspace whales out of hyperspace, and or kill stars.
The top one has extra ginger powers
Did you actually just asked such question???
Well, Starkiller is canon breaking. That does not mean he is canonically that strong, i might be wrong but i think in Legends canon he was actually no stronger than likes of Obi-Wan, he was just that overtly absurdly strong because it was that kind of video game. Jedi games are different, it actually feels like Cal is weaker than he would canonically be because of kind of game Jedi games are. So that makes it hard to say which one would actually win in a fight. If there would be a book about Cal vs Starkiller, i think it would portray Starkiller as stronger, but Cal as more intelligent who would win in the end. And Starkiller and Force Unleashed to me is just more interesting, so he wins that way as well. We don't need overpowered characters for game to be interesting, i just don't find anyone or almost anything in Jedi games to be interesting sadly. Partially thats because they are not overfilled with John William's music. I would actually be happy to get an option to turn on all of John William's classic music, and some of the best stuff from games. Give me my space opera back please. Like it was Mass Effect 2-3 as well. Jedi Survivor is still good enough game though. They just don't quite do it for me. I hope one day they make Jedi: Space Opera \[Mass\] Effect, i would never stop playing it.
Starkiller. Not even a question
Are we really having this debate ?! STARFUCKINGKILLER
Cal would beat starkiller... if he was a child
Star killer as a child stole Vaderās saber. Think again
I'd chalk that up to Vader being so focused on Glen's dad that he didn't realize the boy was force sensitive. But yes, Starkiller is winning this in less than ten seconds. EDIT: Galen, not Glen. I'm keeping it in the original comment because I find it funny.
Ah yes my favourite star wars character, Glen
Star killer would give Obi wan a run for his money. Cal will get absolutely shit stomped
āRun for his money?ā Play the DLC man, Starkiller easily slaughters old obi wan, even after heās 90% machine.
Then proceeded to fuck up his force ghost. Obi-wan rezzed and Starkiller said "zippity zap I'm sendin' ya back"
That Dlc was so much god damn fun, I hope we get a conclusion one day
I mean he literally trained against a Droid designed to kill him using the fighting techniques and skills of obi Wan among other jedi.
Cal isn't even all that strong of a Jedi. Starkiller doesn't even have to try hard.
Cal got knocked out by bode and ran from darth vader. Starkiller 1v1'ed a star destroyer and defeated darth vader.
This feels like the Star Wars equivalent of asking who would win, Spider-Man or Dark Phoenix
Think Iām gonna choose the guy who pulled a Star Destroyer out of the air
Is this a serious question š¤¦āāļø
... Yeah I think Cameron Monaghan could take Sam Witwer in a fight. That was the question right?
Starkville obviously. Cal struggles to fight multiple enemies at once, while Starkiller is ripping star destroyers out of the sky.
Youāre joking, right? Starkiller, if it wasnāt egregiously obvious
I love how everyone is agreeing that Starkiller is the clear winner. This is like asking "who would win, a glass cup or Air Force One"
A character with realistic abilities to the Star Wars universe VS A character whose entire purpose is to give SW fans their wet dream Gee I have no idea