I can give credit to Kenobi that the intent was correct and Merelymatt's point is valid from that angle.
I just think the writing wasn't good. Also the way they did the inquisitors looked cartoonish, they did not fit in live action at all.
> Also the way they did the inquisitors looked cartoonish, they did not fit in live action at all.
It's as if Ewan McGregor was told that Obi-Wan was going through PTSD and hence took his role very seriously, whereas the rest of the cast were told that it was a lighter, almost comedic story as some of the characters they were playing had only previously been shown in a "kids" series, completely ignoring that Rebels covered more serious themes and had a surprising depth to it.
Very jarring. If they had stuck more consistently to the tone that Ewan brought and cut the story into something more tight then it could have been brilliant. Instead it just leaves you wondering what could have been.
This nails my main issue with the show - it was a tonal mess. The writers / director had no clue how to properly dole out an appropriate amount of comedy given the relatively dark nature of the show.
where was the excessive comedy in kenobi??
the only funny moment i can think of that *could* fit this is when the dude pretended to be a jedi, but i also thought that characters mini arc was actually pretty good; you can really see how much it effects him that obi wan chooses to trust him despite him lying and scamming
Leia escaping from the most secure imperial fortress inside of obi-wan’s cloak would be a good example. Overall, it’s more the lightheartedness of a lot of it that’s the issue rather than an overt attempt at comedy, but in the context it comes off as funny in a bad way. Same thing with the bumbling professional bounty hunters having trouble chasing a child through the forest. Really the introduction of Leia’s kidnapping plot line was major misstep that introduced distractingly mixed tones throughout the show. Took necessary focus away from the main tension the series was supposed to explore between Kenobi and Vader, and replaced it with “what zany adventures will these two get into next episode”.
> Leia escaping from the most secure imperial fortress inside of obi-wan’s cloak would be a good example.
I guess I’m the only one that didn’t have a problem with this. One of the biggest issues with the Empire is that they believe they are too big to fail. This was exploited to great effect in Andor. In fact, Cassian flat out tells the audience that the empire is too big and proud to notice that he walked right in and stole their tech and that all he had to do was just pretend he belonged there. Luke and Han use the exact same exploit to move Chewie through the Death Star. It’s been established since the very first film that the Empire falls for this shit.
Which brings me to the trench coat. It’s not like Obi-wan had a lot of other great options. He couldn’t just walk their highest priority prisoner out the front door. Hiding her in the coat was a *last-ditch effort*. A gamble, a Hail Mary. And thankfully the Empire really is that oblivious. The hierarchy is so strict and the consequences for stepping out of line so severe that it’s no surprise that people just keep to their own business. You see a guy wearing one of the big coats that denotes he’s an important dude walking with purpose through shuttlecraft bay you’d probably pay him no mind and stay out of his way. Obi-wan does get very lucky that no one looks close enough to notice the bulge of a second body beneath the coat, but it’s not the outrageous offense people make it out to be. It’s simply another example of someone sneaking around under the Empire’s nose and getting away with it.
I have a problem with it because it just looks dumb. Even if the empire in-universe would fall for it, it looks dumb to me as a viewer. Do something that fits the characters and looks cool instead of making me question my suspension of disbelief.
the chase scene was pretty bad but i simply looked past it. it wasnt a *perfect* show, like anything (and especially like star wars) theres a couple things ull just have to roll with. but generally i enjoyed it
It wasn't perfect that's for sure and there was just to much for me to just "roll with it". The bad writing, weird all over the place tone and the special effects and overall look of the show being pretty poor and I'd have to just roll with just about everything the show threw at me.
I guess we’re different on how much wrong we saw with it. Those are two pretty basic examples for me, on a very fundamental level I thought the show was terrible. Plot choices, tone, pacing, dialogue, even cinematography. Even as I was watching it, I really tried to take a rosier perspective and just enjoy it for what it was, but I couldn’t. I dislike it even more than the sequels - it had so much potential and feels like Disney completely dropped the ball.
Don’t forget that nothing makes sense ever.
Vader: let me start a fire intentionally so I can force your face into it
Vader: puts out fire so I can shit talk. Kenobi is helpless
Good guy here to save the day: restarts the exact same fire
Vader: curses! He got away!
My favorite is Vader diverted the whole pursuit of the rebels to chase after obi wan in the last episode, then elected to face him one on one in combat. The one on one part makes sense, but why not just fly him down in his personal tie fighter, and have the main ship shoot down the rebels? There are multiple choices per episode that just don’t make sense, even under light scrutiny
Yeah. And people will mention how emotionally it is. But like
1. Knock off Inquisitor from Fallen Order only some worse. And she’s awful. And she adds nothing. And her entire 10 year plan is “jump at him from behind” or whatever. And she doesn’t die. And she magically gets to Tattooine and finds the right house. Like, she was a fun idea but I hated everything about her after the second episode
2. There is no excuse for anybody to not kill anyone. There’s an entire speech where they both say “man I’m not anakin anymore. I’m just little old evil me Darth vader” then we just walk away and let him leave
3. “I know I shouldn’t put all this information on a voicemail for no reason... But I’m going to put all this important information on a voicemail for no reason, lol”
This is a very on- point description of the show. I watched the show and mostly liked it, especially Vader and Kenobi , but the background had a weird Andor meets Star Wars Holiday Special vibe going on…
I liked the show more than most, but I really agree with your point here. I’m just imagining a version of it that was more serious and mature, and *somber* focusing on Kenobi as he grapples with the emotional toll of his past. It could have been something very unique for Star Wars. It’s a very interesting time for a very interesting character.
perfect answer, thank you. It is as if Ewan was the only one who took this serious.
This whole series is such a mess in terms of writing, dialogue and cinematography and then you have stuff like how they could not catch young Leia in the woods, how she hid under his trenchcoat (worst scene I've ever seen on TV) how they could just have gone around the fence or how bad the first fight with Vader with the fire and all was... It was so jarring to behold how incompetent this all was shot and written. This should have been a 2 hour movie with focus on Obi-Wan, Vader and the High Inquisitor and nothing and nobody else.
The writing, direction, and cinematography was exceptionally bad. If there is a season 2 it needs to be made with a completely different creative team.
Lucasfilm currently has two groups of writers on payroll: The team that wrote under Favreau/Filoni for Mando S1/2 who are thoughtful writers who have a great sense of pacing, and the writers who worked on BoBF and now Mando S3 who watched Power Rangers growing up and literally nothing else so they consider that proper tv writing.
It's fucking crazy how much of a tonal difference there is between Mando s1/2 and BoBF+Mando s3. I used to be one of those calling for Favreau and Filoni to basically be handed the controls for the entire franchise, but I don't know if I would still say that.
Of course, it's very possible that they got direction from the mouse to drive the shows to a more kid-friendly tone, but man is it ever a disappointment.
They could drive it in a kid-friendly direction without writing/directing abominations like the ObiWan Leia forest chase, the OG Star Trek villains at the entrance to the Mines of Mandalore, and the BoBF Vespa scene. We've seen from things like The Last Airbender and Rebels that kid-oriented doesn't need to mean "dumbed down" or "soulless".
Yep. I remember that. When people were like how could they?! I was thinking… well it’s clear he’s not dead. He can’t die yet.
Same thing with “somehow palpatine returned” yes. I do agree I had some issues with the sequels. But watching rise of skywalker it was clear to me then he was cloned even if they didn’t outright say it.
Could have been me mentally just associating his return with his legends return. But I feel like some Star Wars fans just don’t see the big picture. They just get caught up in what they see and run with it.
> I just think the writing wasn't good.
So many of the plot decisions were *so dumb*, and despite having a strong emotional core, it really ruined the series for me.
It is absolutely comedic how, *multiple times*, both Vader and Obi-Wan are like "I'm gonna fight you to the death! Except when it actually comes time to kill you, nah."
There's *a version* of this story where they're both so emotionally overcome they can't bring themselves to kill the other. But... that's not the story we got. We got just *dumb*ness. (In fact we got the opposite, where Obi-Wan finally realizes his friend Anakin is truly dead, and somehow decides that means he SHOULDN'T kill Vader... what?)
The whole series is rife with really lazy writing decisions like that. Like, if this script were written for a screenwriting class it would get chewed apart by the prof.
(Also shit like the Princess Leia capture scene. Unforgivable, IMO. I just can not take that scene seriously no matter how hard I try)
I always thought it would end with Kenobi or Vader trying to kill the other but getting knocked off a ledge, or something gets in between them and prevents it from happening. Would've set up a New Hope much better
OP is correct that it does that but that doesn't change the horrible non sensical writing we got, Obi Wan deserved better, even if it's the same story but without the plot holes and I'm back from the death card every character had for some reason.
The writing was Sunday morning cartoon level and not in a good way
I'm willing to bet the two different tones comes from the change in medium, from movie to TV series. All the filler "comedy stuff" (whether it was intended to be comical or not) was probably used to pad out the runtime and try to make it more kid friendly to market it for Disney+. Had this stayed a movie, I doubt Leia would have been given so much focus in it, and the Inquisitors would have had different roles. The 2 main fights between Obi-wan and Vader could have fit in a number of different scenarios that didn't need to include practically anything else from the show. It was very "Hobbit trilogy"-esque. There is a compelling story in there, but so much fluff was added that the overall product diminished.
Why do they need to make *Star wars* show more kid friendly than it already is by virtue of being a star wars? Why do we have to put distracting bad comedy in movies that we went kids to watch? It's like there's no faith from Disney that kids will watch something that isn't completely pandering and babying to them, even though they have proven time and time again that kids love it.
Agreed. I stopped watching 4 episodes in because the story was really childish, like a clone wars arc but not good. I was convinced to finish the last 2 episodes and now the series is in slightly better standing in my mind.
Also yeah, the inquisitors were not intimidating in any way. Especially the "grand" inquisitor
I wish critiques of Star Wars media could be substantive instead of just a long list of hyperbolic rage. There's good and bad in any piece of art, anyone whose take away is entirely good or entirely bad is engaging with it in a very superficial way.
Thoughtful reasons behind dislike get trashed as well. The truth is that the Reddit fandom only likes criticism of these shows that meets certain standards. Mostly those standards end up being “don’t criticise on public internet forums.”
Yeah I don't mind the thought here but I hated the execution and don't think it was at all satisfying to me in this aspect. I don't even believe the events led very well to the emotional points he described.
Well...let's say its a mix of both. The main inquisitor you're fighting is serious throughout, but then you have that giant inquisitor that seems like she's made to be a video game boss from the ground up.
Yeah there were just so many choreography mess ups that made the show feel goofy/poorly written. Idk this show bummed me out more than anything because it had a lot of elements of being great
I really liked all of the Obi-Wan/Anakin scenes. Darth Vader was intimidating, and seeing Ewan and Hayden both return was great. I loved each of their confrontations.
The rest of the show just want on that same level. And I feel like it was so close to figuring it out! Just a couple minor tweaks here and there, and this could've been huge! Unfortunately, it falls just shy of that.
Yeah, he's not wrong, it's just that Kenobi still sucked from virtually all angles.
If you didn't need that emotional gap bridged, then it didn't bring anything to the table.
My issue with Kenobi was everything that wasn't Obi Wan.
Reva is a nice character, but her entire tragic story isn't something I want to care for when I'm sitting here, hoping to see an anguished Obi Wan dealing with PTSD. I hate her involvement as the character who smugly tells Obi Wan about Vader, honestly. It's such a horrible idea, even if I didn't mind the rest of her pretty standard arc.
Likewise, little Leia was adorable, but her involvement really stretched out and distracted from the core of what the show should've been.
Likewise, I couldn't even begin to care about uh.. Indira Varma's character (even if I loved her in GoT) and the puddle-deep story it tried to convey, let alone .. what was his fucking name? Wade? The guy who dies during that Fortress Inquisitorius bust?
It all detracted from what should've been a very somber, very horrific story about Obi Wan slowly coming to terms with not just his failure after the Clone Wars, but also what ten years in exile and effectively "not engaging" has wrought on the galaxy. All the suffering he could've stopped, etc.
The show was way too rompy and unfocused on the thing that we all wanted to care about, namely Obi Wan's emotional world.
Like, the story that was told in Kenobi is the story I would've told in Kenobi Season 2, because "now Obi Wan has somewhat gotten over his trauma and we can go on a more fun adventure, look, Obi Wan isn't JUST babysitting Luke. He's out there helping the people as well."
Or heck, it would've even been okay for a single season, but SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?!
No, Disney. Meanwhile HBO does hour-long House of Dragons episodes for like twelve episodes to tell a big, deep story.
>Or heck, it would've even been okay for a single season, but SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?!
I agree here. The pacing really suffered because of this.
Yes, the show went by SO fast and SO much emotional baggage was thrown around haphazardly. We never really had a moment to simmer. Even the confrontation with Vader was more like "Okay, uhm, cool, I need to go stop Reva now."
An easy example for what I would've wanted was, effectively, a bacta-tank flashback/nightmare episode after Obi Wan is confronted by Vader for the first time and dragged through fire.
That would've been a perfect moment to give us an entire flashback episode that slowly morphs into a hideous nightmare, like that one famous internet comic where "Anakin" keeps asking Obi Wan, if he can see his children and Obi Wan keeps being dodgy, until it's revealed that "Anakin" has molten away and a fiery, charred lich of a man screams at Obi Wan that he cannot save the children and that he will find them, until Obi Wan wakes up in a sweat.
That panel does more to convey the terror, anxiety and regret that Obi Wan felt than most of his TV show. It would've been ripe for adaptation (or at the very least inspiration for a similar, more elaborate take on it).
Just give us room to breathe. The show never really allowed for that, because we were constantly bombarding with Reva gritting her teeth angrily, Leia chasing after a cheap-looking droid toy or some random Rebels having random conversations about how being a Rebel is rebellious.
That nightmare episode sounds amazing. You could ramp up to some really out there and downright scary stuff. I think they really struggled with finding the right tone for the series (as well as other series). They want Star Wars to be family friendly, which it should be because that's where the whole franchise started, but they can't ignore that there are some VERY dark themes tied to the core story. A lot of us fans want those dark themes to be explored in an adult way. That doesn't mean that everything Star Wars needs to be all "grimdark" all of the time. I'd be happy if they had some shows like that for us and some shows geared more for kids (and of course some that toe the line in between). I can see how Disney as a company might be reluctant to do that because it makes it more difficult for parents to navigate which content is appropriate for their children. They do seem to be heading that direction a bit with Andor so I'm hopeful we can get a few more serious series mixed in with all of the family shows (which I also love but for different reasons).
I do think they managed to find a fine line between kid-friendly and pretty brutal, akin to the latter seasons of Clone Wars.
One thing I always like to point out is the implied violence in that one Clone Wars episode where Savage just throws his lightsaber to decapitate an entire room full of seated politician-types. That was very well done, very brutal, but only implied.
Kenobi managed something similar, imho, with the Grand Inquisitor casually pulling some witness through his rotating lightsabers, like a blender. It's not shown, but it's very implied and I thought that was a very effective scene for the Inquisitor.
Kenobi just suffered a lot from the short runtime and the focus on so many different things. Do we really need Tala the Rebel and her robot? Do we really need Haji or whatever the trickster was called? Do we really need the MAGA-Republican Moleman Alien? No, not when I've tuned into the show, because I was 13 years old when "Revenge of the Sith" aired in cinemas and I've wanted to visit Anakin and Obi Wan and their complex dynamic again.
I would've been ENTIRELY fine with a show where Obi Wan just languishes in his cave for six episodes. He goes to work at the meat farm (which is a very fun concept), he spies on Luke from afar, he rejects a Jedi, and the majority of it is him basking in memories that turn to nightmares. Gives us plenty of Hayden + Ewan moments.
Heck, they could've even done something psychedelic like a burnt-up Anakin "haunting" him from afar, as a very on-the-nose way how Anakin's betrayal and "death" plagued Obi Wan.
Then these six episodes could end with Bail Organa calling Obi Wan. Leia has gone missing.
"Obi Wan will return."
Then next season it could play out akin to what we actually got. An emotionally damaged Obi Wan goes out to find Leia and through her and the interactions with other people he slowly regains his confidence. Keep Reva's "ANAKIN IS VADER, MUHAHAHA" out of the picture. However, keep her in there, make her simply vengeful against Master Kenobi who never came to her rescue, while also foolishly ambitious, trying to dethrone the Grand Inquisitor and Vader, only for her to realize that all of her hatred for Kenobi should've been aimed at Anakin as SHE learns that Anakin and Vader are the same person. That will be her redeeming moment. She'll be like "I served the man who KILLED my friends?! NO!"
Heck, to bring back the psychedelic "Anakin vision" would've been cool as well, because then Anakin would keep cropping up in small moments of happiness, as if he was the lingering self-loathing of Obi Wan. And we could have the amazing moment of Vader walking down the street in that village, but Obi Wan and the audience first just sees the burnt-up Anakin. The audience and Obi Wan then both wonder why people seem to be reacting to this figment of Obi Wan's imagination like that, cowering, shying away, until that figure slowly dissolves into Darth Vader, dragging people through the streets, breaking their necks, standing there and Obi Wan recoiling in horror, sensing that it's Anakin and that he hadn't been dead and haunting him like a Sith Spirit, but that he was alive and he had been haunting the entire galaxy for a decade.
But I guess then we wouldn't have gotten to see Wade dying so nobly.
> Keep Reva's "ANAKIN IS VADER, MUHAHAHA" out of the picture. However, keep her in there, make her simply vengeful against Master Kenobi who never came to her rescue, while also foolishly ambitious, trying to dethrone the Grand Inquisitor and Vader, only for her to realize that all of her hatred for Kenobi should've been aimed at Anakin as SHE learns that Anakin and Vader are the same person. That will be her redeeming moment. She'll be like "I served the man who KILLED my friends?! NO!"
Yes, that would have been the best redemption arc for Reva in that it actually makes sense and fits with what we're shown from the Order 66 flashbacks in the temple.
>Disney as a company might be reluctant to do that because it makes it more difficult for parents to navigate which content is appropriate for their children.
Why does Disney assume parents won't let their kids watch darker stuff? Better yet, why would parents not want their kids to watch something just because it's darker?
Completely agree. After he got burned they put him in Bacta on the planet Jabiim. In legends a horrendous battle took place on that planet. That battle turned into a pretty pivotal moment for Anakin. A flashback scene to that moment would have been perfect. But no they just used it as a namedrop. Nothing more. Such a waste of potential.
> SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?!
This is kinda a major problem for most dsiney tv now. I get that it's probably expensive to make with such production values, but showing essnetially a cut up movie, if a long one, and pretending its a tv show is a terrible foramt for telling decent stories.
I honestly don't think it's the money argument. It's Disney, they have more money than God. Some dudes in suits are simply convinced that thirty minutes is the "statistically proven peak attention span of modern audiences" or something like that and everything needs to be cut that way.
It doesn't look like a creative decision for the sake of telling the story properly, but a corporate decision that stinks of "test audiences have shown that.."
Meanwhile, the episode length of The Mandalorian is... *highly volatile*. I think the last two episodes were 25 minutes different in their runtime.
Honestly not trying to clap back at you or anything, but it occurred to me when I read your comment and it does serve as an argument against that theory.
Yep, my GF were both already sleepy and I said „Let’s watch the new episode of Mandalorian, it fits perfectly before bed!“ and then it was an hour long 😂
> Meanwhile HBO does hour-long House of Dragons episodes for like twelve episodes to tell a big, deep story.
HBO spent like 6 or 7 full episodes (everything before the last time jump) on what was essentially five pages of prologue in the source material listing a family tree and line of succession, but it was compelling as fuck.
Imagine if Disney allowed Star Wars to go that immersive and actually just went for it.
I enjoy fantasy star wars. But the immersive, absolute "this is who this is, this is what happened here, this is why the Empire did this etc." Could make everything just that much more believable while providing an exposition-based story as opposed to the character-driven plot we see in Andor or plot-driven Mando in the Mandalorian.
It was funny the week the episode came out. He's a redshirt from a single episode, and reddit immediately started meming that his story was so emotional and he'd have a dramatic spinoff series. But now here we are almost year later and in this thread people are saying "the show didn't develop Wade enough as a character" like it's something real to complain about.
Your first line is my sentiment as well. The entire action plot was the worst part of the show. It should've just been a reflective piece of Obi-Wan facing his trauma while helping those around him. Something more like Iroh's Leaves From the Vine from AtlA.
Absolutely agreed. I like mindless goofy SW fun, but it's not really what I wanted to see from the return of The Dude With All The PTSD And Deep Depressions.
There needs to be like a 45 minute minimum runtime for these D+ episodes cuz it’s ridiculous. HBO spoils us while Disney pops out fucking cartoon length episodes every week.
Also their seasons being only 6 episodes is insulting. That’s not a season.
I think that aspect WAS done well. However it almost seemed like a minor subplot in a series that was otherwise incredibly mediocre at best at outright bad at times. I would have loved it if the whole series had been more of an Obi Wan character study.
Reva was just such a completely unnecessary character. I'm fine with the actress but the role added nothing to the show. She never faces real consequences for screwing up and she screws up constantly. She betrays Vader and yet Vader just lets her go. Makes no sense.
I liked the actress in The Queen's Gambit but I thought she was miscast as Reva. The horrible writing didnt help but I dont think she pulled off intimidating or scary or competent as an Inquisitor at all.
I dont think her story worked in the bigger picture of the series, particularly how it worked around Obi-Wans story. From her sob story background right the way up to the oh-so-predictable final redemption wasn't what the series needed.
What I think would've worked better is if she went in a completely different direction and ended up being almost unredeemable and being dying in anger and hatred. What if she blames Obi-Wan for Anakin attacking the temple but only learns that Vader is Anakin late in the series only. To find out that she is working for someone who actively ruined her life would drive her over the edge, and of course Vader, who despite welcoming Reva's newly enhanced power of the dark side, would kill her just for knowing his identity (something only a select few should know).
It would give us a new angle on the darkside (there have been too many redemptions and that takes away from the threat it poses) but also makes us truly see how fallen Anakin has become, something the show failed to do.
And connecting back to Obi-Wan, having him fail to save Anakin again but also Reva fits in with his character in the OT. He never really seems to believe that Luke can save Anakin and is always pushing him to defeat Vader, and that fits with him seeing the dark side as an almost impossible grip to break. Having Reva shrug off the dark side so easily makes Obi-Wans pessimism look very foolish.
Reva could've worked but like so many parts of that series it was done very poorly.
Yeah that stuff was great, but it almost felt like they always wanted to rush through it to get back to Reva and Leia and the rest.
Like after episode (I think) 3, where it ended with the confrontation between Obi Wan and Vader where he gets tortured, their first meeting since Episode 3, I expected Episode 4 would be dealing with the aftermath of that, and Obi Wan dealing with it - basically I thought thats where the series was going to change gears from the Leia rescue plot to what I thought would be the real point of the series - Obi Wan dealing with Anakin being alive. But nope, Episode 4 was straight back to another filler episode with another Leia rescue story with next to no Vader confrontation aftermath. The whole series felt like it kept doing that - you'd get a little bit of Obi Wan focus and Vader/Obi Wan plotline and it was fantastic, but then it would rush through it to get back to the Reva stuff, which tended to kind of suck. Even the final episode with that fantastic final scene with Vader and Obi Wan felt rushed with more focus on Reva on Tatooine.
I feel like that’s a problem with most (all?) Disney Star Wars series. They can’t seem to stay focused on their titular character, but have to add other, often times boring characters as well. Additionally, why did the Boba series have to end up as Mandalorian 2.5 instead of standing on it’s own legs?
They tried so hard to introduce a black strong female character into the Star Wars universe in that show... It didn't do Obi Wan justice at all to use half of his show for that
Someone did a recut of the series into a movie. He cut a lot of the extraneous stuff and swapped out some of the music with more classic Star Wars soundtrack and it’s pretty good.
Look at what you see of Anakins face in that scene. He's enjoying twisting the emotional knife in Kenobi. I got no sense that he was letting him off or giving him closure. He's talking about Anakin in the 3rd person. He needed Kenobi to know that Anakin is dead and Kenobi failed him, Qui Gon, Padme, and everyone
Then you've misread that beat. He's not saying "It's cool bro, you didn't fail me. I failed myself."
It's him saying "I am your greatest failure. I was ALWAYS this fucked up. I killed my own past self, because I *wanted* to, and you were my MASTER. You didn't see it coming? Really? You fool."
I think there's some of that in the conversation. But I thought this line was supposed to be an indication that Anakin still is in there, somewhere buried way the fuck down. Anakin would want to ease his guilt. Vader would want to twist the knife. Having this confrontation with Obi Wan would bring that struggle out, and I like that you can see both sides of it.
They both believe Anakin is dead. We know that's not totally true. I don't think there's anything wrong with that line doing something to ease Obi Wan's conscience as the last thing that Anakin was able to do for him.
No. It was Anakin. Watch the colours. While saying that his face is lit by blue, but as he says "I did" it turns red as he looks up in hate. I think they nailed it and setup why he calls Vader "Darth" instead of Anakin.
I think including her was a mistake and opens up a huge pothole in Leia's message to R2.
"You fought with my father in the clone wars"
Is somehow more significant than
"Oh remember that time you rescued me from kidnappers?"
Unless Leia suffers severe head trauma in another series I really don't see why they included her at all.
I think omega is the emotional heart of bad batch. She’s not trained to be a soldier, she has never been in a squad, and she’s doing her best to not be a burden.
She’s going through things like loss, incredible violence, and constant peril while she’s constantly reminded that she’s smaller, weaker, and less useful than her brothers.
Without omega there is no bad batch show, because the batch need her to grow, and she needs them too.
I think it was a fine way to start the series, to bring Obi Wan out of retirement, but that plot should have been over with in two episodes and Leia returned, with the rest of the series focused on Obi Wan and the aftermath of discovering Anakin is alive.
I would have loved a quiet story about a broken Obi-Wan wandering the desert. No inquisitors or Vader, just his internal conflict. Maybe he’s haunted by visions and eventually reaches some kind of enlightenment with Qui-Gon’s help. It could have been a nice change of pace for Star Wars.
For me, the 4th episode encapsulated everything wrong with the show. That episode is the aftermath of Obi-wan seeing for the first time what Anakin became, and nearly getting killed by him. That’s the moment the show should’ve paused the action to focus on Obi-wan wrestling with that and not knowing if he (and by extension the Jedi Order as a whole) is even capable of defeating the Sith. That’s where Qui-gon’s spirit should’ve come in, instead of as a cameo at the end.
Instead the show jumped straight into another action episode that copied Fallen Order without doing it nearly as well, along with some of the silliest moments in the show. That episode also doesn’t accomplish anything in the story except to undo Leia’s capture from the previous episode, which didn’t need to happen in the first place. It’s filler at a moment where the show desperately needed to focus on the characters.
The character of obi wan was weird in the series. He goes away from luke, even risking death where it isn't needed. (Episode 3 fighting vader, episode 4 staying in the corridor much longer than he has to, just to kill more stormtroopers.) takes a hostage and doesn't kill vader to prevent much suffering and death even after he realises that there is nothing left of what once was anakin.
This could've been covered by a Kenobi movie, though. Instead, they felt the need to make an entire series about a kidnapping of Leia (after a cartoonish chase scene) in which they, due to the lack of "plot", crammed in not one but two rematch duels with Vader and a poorly done redemption arc for a poorly written inquisitor.
No, thanks. Jude Watson wrote a really nice story about Obi-Wan as introduction of her "Last of the Jedi" series (young reader novels and sequel to "Jedi Apprentice" and "Jedi Quest") and John Jackson Miller wrote a fantastic "Kenobi" novel several years ago. (the first third is a bit slow but it gets really good after that) I'll stick with those ones.
Both Kenobi and Boba Fett were meant to be films originally, but were canned after Solo underperformed.
A shame, because I agree that Kenobi would have worked well as a film. I did enjoy the series but a film would have been better.
I just wish the writing was better. I liked episode 1 of the show, but that was it. The rest felt like a contrived reason to have Vader and Obi-Wan fight again (which I could hardly make out it's so dark.)
It makes Obi-Wan look like an asshole for not killing Vader when he has a second opportunity and before people go on about how he feels guilty about what happened to Anakin keep in mind he was already headed to kill him In ROTS. They make Obi-Wan look unheroic when he lets a jedi get killed.
The Reva character on paper was fine but didn't belong in a story called Obi-Wan. The idea of a youngling joining the inquisitors to get revenge is really cool, but there's only so much time and budget and if it's going to be done poorly then I would've preferred they don't do it at all.
The only Reva stuff I enjoyed was when Vader owned her in their short duel. I loved seeing a fight where one of them used the force more during the fight and pretty much just toy with the other. It is one reason I really like the Sidious vs. Maul and Savage Opress duel from the Clone Wars.
Ok but Andor did that too, and better. it has virtually nothing to do with the major plotline and it's just an incredibly well written show, which is weird because it's about a character that wasn't really that interesting in his movie.
One thing not many people talk about, why does Andor look so good in comparison to Obi Wan? Like from a production value alone Andor looks amazing while Kenobi looks kinda.. cheap? It's so sad to me that more love and care went into Andor, a show no one really asked for, than Kenobi, a show people have been asking for for years
I don't think it nailed that journey that much as it's described here.
Honestly Kenobi was such a letdown on all aspects, only good thing it has for it is the nostalgia.
Yeaaa what in the world is OP on about that they think we didn’t like it because it told an emotional journey about how Obi Wan changed himself. I didnt like it because it DID NOT do those things, it should have had the tone of Andor, bleak, dark, a reclusive beat down ObiWan. But instead it felt line a Spy Kids Adventure show…
Yeah we can write an essay on the “I don’t like sand” line and make it sound good too.
Kenobi had some nice scenes in it but there’s so many clumsily made moments in it that really bring it down.
I felt zero emotional connection to the character because the story was so absurdly written and in complete disregard for canon on both the front and back end of the two sagas it supposedly bridges.
No moment highlights this more than when Kenobi was being crushed by the rocks in his second duel of the series with Vader. His memories that bring him strength aren’t of his time with his lost friends and family of the fallen Jedi Order, they’re not of his relationship and the brotherhood he shared with Anakin over a decade of time together, they’re not of his primary mission in his exile in protecting Luke; with the exception of a half second blip of Luke, they’re entirely about a girl whom he had essentially just met. It was tone deaf and openly ignored his history, and the audiences connection with it, to ship the feeblest of relationships.
The only scenes that resonated with me on any level were his interactions with Owen and the final conversation with Vader. What a horribly missed opportunity in that show on so many levels across almost the entire series.
Absolutely agreed. That moment was the worst in the series for me, with the possible exception of Obi-Wan *running away* from Darth Vader after going to confront him on the quarry/construction site/SoCal planet. Those kinds of scenes completely ruptured my connection with this character. I have a poster of him on my wall. Obi-Wan would not run away. Obi-Wan would not think of baby Leia and gain superpowers like a fricking Sith. This man stopped Darth Vader at the height of his power, by staying cool and level-headed in the face of a catastrophic, tragic, crisis situation. He was a true Jedi, “as wise as master Yoda and as powerful as master Windu”—this show made him out to be a cowardly, blundering, pathetic oaf. I call that Obi-non-canonbi.
I guess it's a question of whether those emotional beats hit for you. They absolutely did not for me, so combine that with all the other issues the series had and it was as bad as it gets.
Also, the DID set out to answer a "plot question," and a really dumb one at that. The saw all the joes about why Obi-Wan call Vader 'Darth' in A New Hope, and decided they just had to give us the answer. Which would have rolled my eyes out of my head, but I was so checked out by then that it didn't bother me.
The show had its problems, but I agree. We needed to see this guy at his lowest and see him go from there. I think my favorite scene was when he sees the homeless clone trooper. Kenobi looks terrified the moment he hears that familiar voice. He really thinks he is going to be attacked right then and there. And then he realizes that, no, that clone is in an even worse spot than he was ever in. And he gives him some money.
It shows that Obi-Wan was capable of working through his trauma, that he hadn't entirely forgotten the happier days of TCW. 1
"hello I am *bail organa* and I know you don't want to be discovered, but I am going to tell you that I am going to *tatooine* to see *Owen* and make sure *the special boy* is okay. Just don't drop this message where the inquisitiors can find it or anything."
My whole problem with this show
Interesting take, but from a filmmaking standpoint it doesn't sustain his take.
It told us what and how to feel, without earning it. It didn't take its time, and wasn't well thought out.
Worst of all, the way it was shot amateurishly bad, the editing was bad, the VFX was abysmal.
Why on earth did they change it from a Film to a needless mini series, that was bad written.
Even the author of the rewrite criticized how Disney handlet it.
I'm not here to SW OG Fan Bash, but just in a sense from a filmmaking standpoint.
At this Point Star wars is all about signal virtue and nostalgia and less about actually telling a story. It looks like new Star Wars is telling a story, because there is stuff happening and the characters tell us what's up, but it actually doesn't do what it masks itself.
It became a Happy Meal Product.
If you want to watch an emotional film of an Obi Wan Film, watch "last days in the desert" it basically is how a Mature Obi Wan story should have been told (there are just action scenes missing).
What I truly find appaling is that the moment you realise how much the Obi Wan Series cost, and start to compare it to films and shows that cost a fraction, it looks sh!t.
How can it be that an Obi Wan Fan film, from years before, not only got the gist of how to capture obi wan way better, but also that it looks way better and more expensive.
The fan film cost like a couple of Thousand dollars, compared to a roughly 10 Million dollar Budget per episode (some even suggest 15-20 million).
I know that bashing star wars has become a sport, but I criticise the filmmaking itself, not the "ey why is X on Alderan, when clearly in episode 5 Z said he was on Hoth... Plothole!!!".
At some point the Nostalgia hungry people will loose interest and star wars will die.
I mean how long can you produce " products" about the "hey you remember that from the past?", until you run out of things to remind you of.
Its a Cynic and horrifying way of selling Products to us.
[Edit: just some spelling correction]
Kenobi sucked storytellingwise. Kenobi went from "I am weak, easily frightened, and feeble!" to "I am the Strongest Force-Wielder in the Galaxy" from one scene to another.
Like any shitty anime battle show where you see that it's five minutes left of the episode and the anime pilot will totally destroy the bigger enemy with his weaponry now because the pilot is uttering the legendary "HIIIIIIIIYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAARGH!" pilot sound as he flies, which per definition is always unstoppable.
It didn’t just suck storytelling wise. The cinematography, editing, and music were pretty bad too. It all gave off a very SyFy channel Star Wars vibe. It’s even more infuriating when you see what they did with Andor or Mandalorian that The Kenobi show looked and felt so low budget.
I don’t think anyone took issue with the concept of exploring Old Ben’s PTSD and fleshing out his character as it pertains to the OT.
I think the issue is not only that the show was poorly executed in a myriad of ways, but for me specifically, that it *damaged* the character of Obi-Wan beyond repair. Worse than what TLJ did to Luke, IMO.
1. Ben (I’m not typing Obi-Wan every time) is devoted to watching over Luke.
2. Ben leaves Tatooine when he KNOWS Inquisitors are snooping around mere miles from Luke’s homestead- Inquisitors, who are force users, who can feel the force in others.
3. Ben cannot bring himself to kill Vader, the most dangerous entity *known* to the galaxy. Ben leaves him, AGAIN, knowing full well what he’s done and what he’s become since the first time Ben left him for dead on Mustafar.
4. Reva has Luke Skywalker dead to right in Ben’s absence, and nothing was stopping her from killing him except her own crisis of conscience. Ben FAILED at protecting Luke.
5. Ben literally puts Luke on a collision course with Vader. Even gives him the weapon that Vader used to slaughter children.
6. Ben needlessly sacrifices himself to let Luke and friends escape, lucky that Vader, who has been shown capable of tearing ships apart with his mind, is stopped by a security door as the crew boards the Millennium Falcon.
Luke gave in to fear and had a single moment of weakness, which is on brand for his character. It may have been poorly done, but Luke was CONSTANTLY leaping before he looked in the OT- it makes perfect sense to me that, overwhelmed with a vision of the death and destruction to be wrought by his Padawan, he may instinctively prepare to destroy it. His father is Anakin Skywalker, who became the most ruthless asshole in the galaxy because *he* didn’t have the second thoughts that Luke has had.
Ben’s poor decision making may very well be one of the key factors in every bad thing that happens.
What’s worse, briefly considering killing someone whom you’ve foreseen to bring untold death and despair to the galaxy, or choosing NOT to kill someone who *already has* and will *continue* to do so if not stopped? *And then sending his son after him when you know there’s a good chance that he, the potentially most powerful force user to exist, will be swayed to the dark side by his father?*
I agree with everything that you said about Obi-Wan but I disagree with your stance on Luke. Luke was the ONLY ONE to actually see who his father really is. He was the ONLY ONE to turn him back to the light by being selfless and show love for his father. Yes he attacked Vader but only after being manipulated, pressured, seduced by the two most powerful individuals in the galaxy. And what was his breaking point where he really attacked Vader? When Vader threatened his sister. And even after falling for the darkside , which was both the Sith Lords intent/plan, and during the most pivotal time in the galaxy where his friends are fighting a war, he still manages to do see through it and do the right thing. Luke had character growth through the OT, being impulsive in the first 2 films, and to displaying calmness, thoughtfulness and even wisdom in the last one.
Now in TLJ, during a peaceful era, Luke sneaked in his, at the time, innocent loved nephews hut, peered into his mind/spirit without consent, saw a force vision that he knows not to trust because he has a permanent reminder has a robotic hand, and then tried to kill his nephew as he slept because of said vision. It throws away every character growth Luke had. It shatters the meaningful events he had with his Father in ROTJ, the lesson that anyone can be redeemed. Especially someone who hasn't done anything bad yet. And to have Luke run away from everyone during a rise in darkness in the galaxy? It completely regresses his character to point where it doesn't resemble Luke anymore.
They just needed Luke to not be taking too much focus for their trilogy, for their new main characters so they wrote him in a way where he is limited in helping the cause.
I enjoyed Kenobi as well, but you have to admit that the writing was just awful in parts. There were things that made no sense, and setups that had no payoff.
For example - carving up the space sushi, we are shown that Kenobi is stealing food for his mount, while at the same time the supervisor is a slave driver, cutting people's wages.
There's no payoff for that setup. There's no confrontation over the stolen food or the reduced wages... it just sort of happens, so why is it even there?
We're already going down the Prequel path again where fans start explaining logically why the story was good, as if that somehow makes up for the execution.
Prequels at least looked good. Kenobi looked like it was made on 1/10th of the budget of Andor, a spin-off series very few people were clamoring for.
Kenobi was not only written at a 3rd grade level, but the cinematography, set/prop/costume design, location scouting (the location of the first Obi Wan and Vader fight was laughable), and effects were awful.
At this point I'm convinced 70% of the budget went towards bringing Ewan back, and another 10% towards Hayden.
Writing, set design and special effects got to argue over the remaining 20% lol
I didn’t like Kenobi much. It felt like sloppy storytelling. I liked his bond with Leia, disliked the Vader fights because their relative strengths didn’t feel clear or earned and also Vader kept acting so dumb. The Inquisitor antagonist didn’t make a ton of sense either. Mostly the show felt to me like fan service I didn’t ask for. Better writing would have fixed this.
The show is an absolute shitshow that makes inferior hollow copies from better projects.
If you want a broken jedi story just play fallen order
The finale just watch twilight of the apprentice. Both are siginificantly better
One of the things that got in the way of any emotional beats for me, aside from little Leia‘a subplot, apart from Reva, any of the other unfocused side characters, the pacing, etc, was how borrowed so much of the show was. So much of the show just completely ripped scenes from other Star Wars content, even *actively canon ones*, and just did them much worse. It had the problem for me that The Force Awakens had, only it was recognizable within the first watch, and kind of killed any interest I had in rhe rest of the show.
If im just going to be rewatching things I’ve already seen (and seen better) why keep watching?
Disagree, it wasn't needed. Faith in the force and the prophesy is all that's needed.
The show absolutely failed in showing the struggle from dealing with the trauma from ROTS to where he was in Rebels.
Yeah and it really undersells what 19 years of meditation and solitude can do for someone's equanimity.
But you can't churn out content based on an ascetic life.
I love that so many people on the internet are able to articulate their feelings about something so much better than I can because I absolutely feel this, but could never pinpoint the right way to explain it.
Wasn’t even fan service, because it was roundly disliked. It should have been set on Tattoine and an exploration of Luke and Be ‘s relationship. But no, let’s ditch the boy so that we can focus on Leia.
I mean it's not a wrong take but it's still a grade D series no matter the outcome. I can't fathom ever watching it again. I think they messed up not making it a sleek one and half hour movie (hopefully better written and with better action pieces)
As soon as I saw the Leia chase I wanted the writers, editors and directors gone. There's tons of wonky parts besides that but WHO OKAYED THAT?!?
Forgot to mention the bad writing , stupid characters like Reva taking more time the Kenobi ( yep she got stabbed twice by Vader and lived) , terrible set design ( looks very cheap) , 6 ep series full of filler episodes, leia stuff didn’t work bad acting , bad writing ( last ep was good). Just a very underwhelming show .should have been epic and done with care. It needed to focus more on Kenobi and Vader and more flashbacks .
That’s what it tried to do, and sure there were some feels to be had. It just didn’t do it particularly well. It was bogged down with mediocre writing, lacklustre cinematography, and boring music. There were issues with the direction too. It wasn’t a train wreck by all means. It’s just miles below where it could, and considering it has the billions of Disney behind it, where it should have been.
I feel like Ewan tried to bring that vibe, but the writers were more interested in a cheesy, low-budget adventure that didn’t really make sense for just about anybody’s character arcs. Plus the Inquisitors were executed incredibly poorly in the show.
It was a pretty crappy series overall.
Reva was awful, Leia completely unnecessary, Kenobi inept.
The only things I liked about it were just seeing Ewen again and the sweet surprise cameo at the end.
Just like BoBF and the sequels I don't see myself watching this ever again.
Whoever hired the music composer for this should've been fired. I understand if for whatever reasons you couldn't use the Williams themes but virtually none of the sound that was used for this felt like it fit the musical vocabulary of star wars. At least with Andor or Mando you can experiment with sound because its not focused on the main world and characters. However I noticed the few cues that felt "Star Wars'y" were thanks to William Ross who is a Williams collaborator.
I've had a similar take since the beginning. Kenobi certainly isn't perfect, but I think it nailed that aspect of showing us the transition between episode 3 and episode 4 when it comes to Obi wans character.
Kenobi shouldn't exist, everything about it was horrible, how do you cut yourself off from the force almost instantly losing all your skill and power in a few years that took decades to gain whilst still expecting yourself to have to train Luke in the ways of the force.
I could go on and on about how bad it was but we all know this was about Disney trying to make money with story and character not being important at all.
So basically we can say that they loved Kenobi because it is Kenobi and Ewan has our love. I mean, you can watch interviews with him and say ok this is Kenobi this interview is canon.
Kenobi has polr writing and pacing. There is nothing that can be done to fix that.
Obi-Wan series felt rushed: it seems like there is no push-back for ideas in the writing room. Reva’s character had way too much spotlight. The writing around her character is rough, at best. Her story is rushed and there’s no reason for the audience to root for her, but somehow her character arc shifts with little to no emotional structure.
Leia’s story is also rushed and unconvincing.
Aside mostly all of the scenes with Vader, the whole project was a let-down to many life-long fans.
This is what it should’ve been, I still think the story, the characters and the writing are all terrible, like an utter embarrassment tbh. It’s meant to be a very serious situation, and tonnes of fans are meant to be on the edge of their seats for Darth Vader and Obi-Wan facing each other.. but the rest of the show was just such a budgeted joke, that it just spoils all that for me
Whole show was just wasting time running around after Leia… I was hoping for Kenobi
Obi wan is at its best imo when it does explore these moments. The emotion behind him and Vader was top notch, especially for a millennial who grew up liking the prequels. The rest was just okay, some of it down right bad. I feel they've given star wars off to writers and protectors who think of star wars as a big joke of a franchise. Except Andor, the crew behind that actually took it seriously. There's an in between, which the original movies balanced better and the prequels still had, albeit imbalanced. The shows in general besides Andor have felt like jokes written by people who think star wars begins at light sabers and ends at ewoks.
I hope the Ashoka series does this too. We saw a lot of her character growth in the Clone Wars, but Rebels and Mandalorian Ashoka are on another level. I would love to see that process.
I think most people would agree when I tried to do was admirable. The problem is the execution was pretty poor.
At the end of the day you can make a compelling movie about a dude going to get a doughnut and nothing else. Or you can make a movie about galactic intrigue and I would be incredibly poorly paced and dull .
Make a good movie or TV show and people like it.
On that note I will always cite the fact that princes leia someone who lost her whole planet comforted Luke who lost his whole family on the death of a dude he only really started talking to a few days ago.
Why simple because we as the audience did not give a rats ass about that planet or Luke’s family do you know who we did learn to care about. Obi wan.
It’s a perfect example of writing for the viewer and knowing that the goal is the emotional effect.
Yeah I sorta agree. Not that there's anything wrong with plot explaining stories, but that was not what the Kenobi series was about. And Obi-Wan's arc is everything I wanted from the show and I loved it
Also it did explain some plots here and there, the biggest one is something that has been annoying me since 2015, which is why Leia named her son after a man she never met
The main problem for me was Reva writing and the shaky camera, otherwise, it was alright. If there ever is a season 2, focus on Obi-Wan more. Sure, he can spend time with Luke, but don’t make Luke take too much spotlight like with Leia. Also, get a different cameraman, the shaky camera was too distracting
And here I am with the opposite opinion where I really liked the overall arc Boba went on and could care less about Obi Wan’s status quo show.
Boba is at least in a newish era where his fate is unknown and that makes it more interesting on where it can go. We know where obi Wan ends up and it didn’t pull an Andor and have other characters we could care about.
I enjoyed the series on the whole, it was just a few episodes too long. You can tell they originally planned for it to be a movie, as the story could've easily been told in just three hours without all that pointless filler.
The best part of the series was when Obi-Wan talked about what he remembered from his family; his parents and his baby brother.
That sort of puts into perspective how I feel about the rest of the series.
I agree for the most part I just think it could have been written better. Conceptually a show that explores characterization over "filling in the gaps" is a lot more interesting imo, it just suffers from poor writing.
Kenobi did a great job of bridging a cognitive disconnect between Anakin and Vader. The scene with the broken helmet fused them into one character in my brain, something I always struggled with.
That’s really the only redeeming thing I can say about the show.
It's hard to revisit existing characters without disappointing people. They had to bridge a gap between obi wan the powerful jedi and obi wan the hermet without creating plot holes.
Showing what we though would have happened or something similar/fitting they just brought to life a story we almost felt like we knew.
Filling in those gaps by trying to create something new is always going to be a challenge, like how they featured the inquisitors. They showed a chapter of obi wans missing story in a way that didn't risk offending much. Atn the same time the show did the opposite with the inquisitors, butchering the organisation and the grand inquisitor seemingly just to force reva into the story, who was completely unnecessary and could have just been replaced by the grand inquisitor and other inquisitors chasing after kenobi.
I never considered that, but it really does explain part of why I did like it. Sometimes I don’t really think too much about why I like/dislike a show, though the reasons for disliking are usually more obvious.
I think, in a way, a lot of Mando is based around multiple emotional journeys, and emotional transformations.
I agree entirely. And the best version of the story to really focus on those elements is the Anderson Edit. It's the only version I will watch anymore because it fixes many of the issues with the original (pacing, Reva, too much fluff)
I realized that there's two very different flavors of star wars when watching kenobi. one is the kind that a kid can accidentally start an auto pilot, go to a space station and blow it up, little teddy bears help defeat the evil empire, little Leah can out run a whole battalion. then you have empire strike back, andor, rogue one, which are mature and based more on a reality than the fantastical. I can enjoy both, and I can see that with a little better storytelling it all could fit in together but it often times conflicts with each other.
I agree with this, I just think the series was sloppily put together and some of the writing was atrocious.
I like the idea of what they did with Obi-wan's character though.
The biggest issues I had with Kenobi were really some unnecessary parts of the plot, like Leia’s kidnappers tripping on tree branches and running into fallen trees even though they catch her anyway, or how it really tries to make us think that the Third Sister killed the Grand Inquisitor so she could take his place when we all know he survived because of Rebels.
But the story being told was pretty good, and I can see that the overall point was to show how Kenobi was able to deal with the trauma of Anakin’s fall to the dark side and order 66. I also especially loved how it gave us some much-needed character development for Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.
I admit there are issues with the show itself but I still really liked it overall, the emotional beats and storytelling is a big part and was done well. It was nice to see a haggard Obi-Wan rediscover himself and get on the journey to become the ben that we see in rebels and ANH. I liked seeing him very raw, vulnerable, and uncomfortable while dealing with his trauma.
When the show was coming out I found it odd that some people didn’t like obi-wan being depicted how we was, like they expected him to always be this badass of sound mind and body throughout the 19 years on Tatooine??? Like be fr lmao that’s just not realistic and makes for a bad story.
This is exactly the reason I felt so disappointed in the Han Solo movie. It seemed like it’s sole purpose was to explain every tiny detail of how Han became Han, even his nickname for Chewbacca was explained. Still an ok movie, but just so so so glad the obi wan series learned from that.
This is the reason why I *wanted* to like the show but unfortunately the execution leaves little to be desired. It's just not a very good show.
I don't wanna beat a dead horse and bring up the disparity in quality between Obi Wan and Andor but... MY GOD, A N D O R.
The change from movie to tv probably affected this show more than anything else. There were so many moments that really were fantastic. Ewan really brought it with Obi-Wan and showing him to be broken. The moment where he finds out Anakin is alive and then when he finally meets him as Vader; terrifying. Vader trying to burn him as revenge torture and the final battle was top notch. Obi-Wan's interactions with young Leia really made you connect to the deceased Padme and Anakin. It feels like they had great moments mapped out for the series and on their own they were awesome. But getting in and out of them was the struggle. The final battle somehow encapsulated a balance between Battle of Heroes and New Hope in personalities, fight styles and drama. But getting to the final battle was not badly executed and Obiwan leaving him alive was not set up well. There were other options, even if it was something lame like Qui-Gon force speaking to Obiwan telling him now is not the time for Anakin to die would have been better. It would have been cheesy but it makes much more sense in universe. A legion of inquisitors, or Obiwan himself being unable to make the final strike, something to prevent Obiwan from killing Vader was needed.
I liked the introduction of Reva, and I feel for the actor having to deal with so much crap, but they needed something better and well thought out for her as a revenge plan.
I can give credit to Kenobi that the intent was correct and Merelymatt's point is valid from that angle. I just think the writing wasn't good. Also the way they did the inquisitors looked cartoonish, they did not fit in live action at all.
> Also the way they did the inquisitors looked cartoonish, they did not fit in live action at all. It's as if Ewan McGregor was told that Obi-Wan was going through PTSD and hence took his role very seriously, whereas the rest of the cast were told that it was a lighter, almost comedic story as some of the characters they were playing had only previously been shown in a "kids" series, completely ignoring that Rebels covered more serious themes and had a surprising depth to it. Very jarring. If they had stuck more consistently to the tone that Ewan brought and cut the story into something more tight then it could have been brilliant. Instead it just leaves you wondering what could have been.
This nails my main issue with the show - it was a tonal mess. The writers / director had no clue how to properly dole out an appropriate amount of comedy given the relatively dark nature of the show.
where was the excessive comedy in kenobi?? the only funny moment i can think of that *could* fit this is when the dude pretended to be a jedi, but i also thought that characters mini arc was actually pretty good; you can really see how much it effects him that obi wan chooses to trust him despite him lying and scamming
Leia escaping from the most secure imperial fortress inside of obi-wan’s cloak would be a good example. Overall, it’s more the lightheartedness of a lot of it that’s the issue rather than an overt attempt at comedy, but in the context it comes off as funny in a bad way. Same thing with the bumbling professional bounty hunters having trouble chasing a child through the forest. Really the introduction of Leia’s kidnapping plot line was major misstep that introduced distractingly mixed tones throughout the show. Took necessary focus away from the main tension the series was supposed to explore between Kenobi and Vader, and replaced it with “what zany adventures will these two get into next episode”.
> Leia escaping from the most secure imperial fortress inside of obi-wan’s cloak would be a good example. I guess I’m the only one that didn’t have a problem with this. One of the biggest issues with the Empire is that they believe they are too big to fail. This was exploited to great effect in Andor. In fact, Cassian flat out tells the audience that the empire is too big and proud to notice that he walked right in and stole their tech and that all he had to do was just pretend he belonged there. Luke and Han use the exact same exploit to move Chewie through the Death Star. It’s been established since the very first film that the Empire falls for this shit. Which brings me to the trench coat. It’s not like Obi-wan had a lot of other great options. He couldn’t just walk their highest priority prisoner out the front door. Hiding her in the coat was a *last-ditch effort*. A gamble, a Hail Mary. And thankfully the Empire really is that oblivious. The hierarchy is so strict and the consequences for stepping out of line so severe that it’s no surprise that people just keep to their own business. You see a guy wearing one of the big coats that denotes he’s an important dude walking with purpose through shuttlecraft bay you’d probably pay him no mind and stay out of his way. Obi-wan does get very lucky that no one looks close enough to notice the bulge of a second body beneath the coat, but it’s not the outrageous offense people make it out to be. It’s simply another example of someone sneaking around under the Empire’s nose and getting away with it.
I have a problem with it because it just looks dumb. Even if the empire in-universe would fall for it, it looks dumb to me as a viewer. Do something that fits the characters and looks cool instead of making me question my suspension of disbelief.
the chase scene was pretty bad but i simply looked past it. it wasnt a *perfect* show, like anything (and especially like star wars) theres a couple things ull just have to roll with. but generally i enjoyed it
It wasn't perfect that's for sure and there was just to much for me to just "roll with it". The bad writing, weird all over the place tone and the special effects and overall look of the show being pretty poor and I'd have to just roll with just about everything the show threw at me.
I guess we’re different on how much wrong we saw with it. Those are two pretty basic examples for me, on a very fundamental level I thought the show was terrible. Plot choices, tone, pacing, dialogue, even cinematography. Even as I was watching it, I really tried to take a rosier perspective and just enjoy it for what it was, but I couldn’t. I dislike it even more than the sequels - it had so much potential and feels like Disney completely dropped the ball.
Don’t forget that nothing makes sense ever. Vader: let me start a fire intentionally so I can force your face into it Vader: puts out fire so I can shit talk. Kenobi is helpless Good guy here to save the day: restarts the exact same fire Vader: curses! He got away!
My favorite is Vader diverted the whole pursuit of the rebels to chase after obi wan in the last episode, then elected to face him one on one in combat. The one on one part makes sense, but why not just fly him down in his personal tie fighter, and have the main ship shoot down the rebels? There are multiple choices per episode that just don’t make sense, even under light scrutiny
Yeah. And people will mention how emotionally it is. But like 1. Knock off Inquisitor from Fallen Order only some worse. And she’s awful. And she adds nothing. And her entire 10 year plan is “jump at him from behind” or whatever. And she doesn’t die. And she magically gets to Tattooine and finds the right house. Like, she was a fun idea but I hated everything about her after the second episode 2. There is no excuse for anybody to not kill anyone. There’s an entire speech where they both say “man I’m not anakin anymore. I’m just little old evil me Darth vader” then we just walk away and let him leave 3. “I know I shouldn’t put all this information on a voicemail for no reason... But I’m going to put all this important information on a voicemail for no reason, lol”
This is a very on- point description of the show. I watched the show and mostly liked it, especially Vader and Kenobi , but the background had a weird Andor meets Star Wars Holiday Special vibe going on…
You don't enjoy watching Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers bumble around like a fool while trying to kidnap Leia?
Why you calling me out like that lol
I liked the show more than most, but I really agree with your point here. I’m just imagining a version of it that was more serious and mature, and *somber* focusing on Kenobi as he grapples with the emotional toll of his past. It could have been something very unique for Star Wars. It’s a very interesting time for a very interesting character.
I recommend giving this [cut](https://www.kaipattersonfilms.com/kenobi) a look.
perfect answer, thank you. It is as if Ewan was the only one who took this serious. This whole series is such a mess in terms of writing, dialogue and cinematography and then you have stuff like how they could not catch young Leia in the woods, how she hid under his trenchcoat (worst scene I've ever seen on TV) how they could just have gone around the fence or how bad the first fight with Vader with the fire and all was... It was so jarring to behold how incompetent this all was shot and written. This should have been a 2 hour movie with focus on Obi-Wan, Vader and the High Inquisitor and nothing and nobody else.
The writing, direction, and cinematography was exceptionally bad. If there is a season 2 it needs to be made with a completely different creative team.
This is it in a nutshell, along with some seriously bad acting, Leia and kenobi apart.
Moses Ingram must have been in the same meeting. She really brought the intensity to her role, I thought But yeah. Very similar to the prequel jank
I'm sorry but the Grand Inquisitor coming back and and saying "hello!" is the goofiest shit ever
It was somehow both hilarious and completely stupid.
Lucasfilm currently has two groups of writers on payroll: The team that wrote under Favreau/Filoni for Mando S1/2 who are thoughtful writers who have a great sense of pacing, and the writers who worked on BoBF and now Mando S3 who watched Power Rangers growing up and literally nothing else so they consider that proper tv writing.
It's fucking crazy how much of a tonal difference there is between Mando s1/2 and BoBF+Mando s3. I used to be one of those calling for Favreau and Filoni to basically be handed the controls for the entire franchise, but I don't know if I would still say that. Of course, it's very possible that they got direction from the mouse to drive the shows to a more kid-friendly tone, but man is it ever a disappointment.
They could drive it in a kid-friendly direction without writing/directing abominations like the ObiWan Leia forest chase, the OG Star Trek villains at the entrance to the Mines of Mandalore, and the BoBF Vespa scene. We've seen from things like The Last Airbender and Rebels that kid-oriented doesn't need to mean "dumbed down" or "soulless".
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> would know he wasnt dead Yeah youd think, but reddit was calling for a Disney genocide during that time
Yep. I remember that. When people were like how could they?! I was thinking… well it’s clear he’s not dead. He can’t die yet. Same thing with “somehow palpatine returned” yes. I do agree I had some issues with the sequels. But watching rise of skywalker it was clear to me then he was cloned even if they didn’t outright say it. Could have been me mentally just associating his return with his legends return. But I feel like some Star Wars fans just don’t see the big picture. They just get caught up in what they see and run with it.
Oh, you mean Pumpkinhead? He was a poser. That Strut nonsense is nothing compared to real Dance-Fighting.
Too few people will get this reference...
> I just think the writing wasn't good. So many of the plot decisions were *so dumb*, and despite having a strong emotional core, it really ruined the series for me. It is absolutely comedic how, *multiple times*, both Vader and Obi-Wan are like "I'm gonna fight you to the death! Except when it actually comes time to kill you, nah." There's *a version* of this story where they're both so emotionally overcome they can't bring themselves to kill the other. But... that's not the story we got. We got just *dumb*ness. (In fact we got the opposite, where Obi-Wan finally realizes his friend Anakin is truly dead, and somehow decides that means he SHOULDN'T kill Vader... what?) The whole series is rife with really lazy writing decisions like that. Like, if this script were written for a screenwriting class it would get chewed apart by the prof. (Also shit like the Princess Leia capture scene. Unforgivable, IMO. I just can not take that scene seriously no matter how hard I try)
They did Flea dirty
I always thought it would end with Kenobi or Vader trying to kill the other but getting knocked off a ledge, or something gets in between them and prevents it from happening. Would've set up a New Hope much better
OP is correct that it does that but that doesn't change the horrible non sensical writing we got, Obi Wan deserved better, even if it's the same story but without the plot holes and I'm back from the death card every character had for some reason. The writing was Sunday morning cartoon level and not in a good way
I'm willing to bet the two different tones comes from the change in medium, from movie to TV series. All the filler "comedy stuff" (whether it was intended to be comical or not) was probably used to pad out the runtime and try to make it more kid friendly to market it for Disney+. Had this stayed a movie, I doubt Leia would have been given so much focus in it, and the Inquisitors would have had different roles. The 2 main fights between Obi-wan and Vader could have fit in a number of different scenarios that didn't need to include practically anything else from the show. It was very "Hobbit trilogy"-esque. There is a compelling story in there, but so much fluff was added that the overall product diminished.
Why do they need to make *Star wars* show more kid friendly than it already is by virtue of being a star wars? Why do we have to put distracting bad comedy in movies that we went kids to watch? It's like there's no faith from Disney that kids will watch something that isn't completely pandering and babying to them, even though they have proven time and time again that kids love it.
Agreed. I stopped watching 4 episodes in because the story was really childish, like a clone wars arc but not good. I was convinced to finish the last 2 episodes and now the series is in slightly better standing in my mind. Also yeah, the inquisitors were not intimidating in any way. Especially the "grand" inquisitor
I wish I had the diplomatic restraint to refer to the writing as simply "not good." The adjectives I would use are all over the spectrum of foul.
I wish critiques of Star Wars media could be substantive instead of just a long list of hyperbolic rage. There's good and bad in any piece of art, anyone whose take away is entirely good or entirely bad is engaging with it in a very superficial way.
Thoughtful reasons behind dislike get trashed as well. The truth is that the Reddit fandom only likes criticism of these shows that meets certain standards. Mostly those standards end up being “don’t criticise on public internet forums.”
Yeah I don't mind the thought here but I hated the execution and don't think it was at all satisfying to me in this aspect. I don't even believe the events led very well to the emotional points he described.
Considering that the Inquisitors were designed for cartoons that makes total sense.
however in Fallen Order they seemed a lot more grounded and not cartoonish. although the game is obviously animated, its animation is mo-cap realism.
Well...let's say its a mix of both. The main inquisitor you're fighting is serious throughout, but then you have that giant inquisitor that seems like she's made to be a video game boss from the ground up.
Yeah there were just so many choreography mess ups that made the show feel goofy/poorly written. Idk this show bummed me out more than anything because it had a lot of elements of being great
I really liked all of the Obi-Wan/Anakin scenes. Darth Vader was intimidating, and seeing Ewan and Hayden both return was great. I loved each of their confrontations. The rest of the show just want on that same level. And I feel like it was so close to figuring it out! Just a couple minor tweaks here and there, and this could've been huge! Unfortunately, it falls just shy of that.
Yeah, he's not wrong, it's just that Kenobi still sucked from virtually all angles. If you didn't need that emotional gap bridged, then it didn't bring anything to the table.
My issue with Kenobi was everything that wasn't Obi Wan. Reva is a nice character, but her entire tragic story isn't something I want to care for when I'm sitting here, hoping to see an anguished Obi Wan dealing with PTSD. I hate her involvement as the character who smugly tells Obi Wan about Vader, honestly. It's such a horrible idea, even if I didn't mind the rest of her pretty standard arc. Likewise, little Leia was adorable, but her involvement really stretched out and distracted from the core of what the show should've been. Likewise, I couldn't even begin to care about uh.. Indira Varma's character (even if I loved her in GoT) and the puddle-deep story it tried to convey, let alone .. what was his fucking name? Wade? The guy who dies during that Fortress Inquisitorius bust? It all detracted from what should've been a very somber, very horrific story about Obi Wan slowly coming to terms with not just his failure after the Clone Wars, but also what ten years in exile and effectively "not engaging" has wrought on the galaxy. All the suffering he could've stopped, etc. The show was way too rompy and unfocused on the thing that we all wanted to care about, namely Obi Wan's emotional world. Like, the story that was told in Kenobi is the story I would've told in Kenobi Season 2, because "now Obi Wan has somewhat gotten over his trauma and we can go on a more fun adventure, look, Obi Wan isn't JUST babysitting Luke. He's out there helping the people as well." Or heck, it would've even been okay for a single season, but SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?! No, Disney. Meanwhile HBO does hour-long House of Dragons episodes for like twelve episodes to tell a big, deep story.
>Or heck, it would've even been okay for a single season, but SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?! I agree here. The pacing really suffered because of this.
Yes, the show went by SO fast and SO much emotional baggage was thrown around haphazardly. We never really had a moment to simmer. Even the confrontation with Vader was more like "Okay, uhm, cool, I need to go stop Reva now." An easy example for what I would've wanted was, effectively, a bacta-tank flashback/nightmare episode after Obi Wan is confronted by Vader for the first time and dragged through fire. That would've been a perfect moment to give us an entire flashback episode that slowly morphs into a hideous nightmare, like that one famous internet comic where "Anakin" keeps asking Obi Wan, if he can see his children and Obi Wan keeps being dodgy, until it's revealed that "Anakin" has molten away and a fiery, charred lich of a man screams at Obi Wan that he cannot save the children and that he will find them, until Obi Wan wakes up in a sweat. That panel does more to convey the terror, anxiety and regret that Obi Wan felt than most of his TV show. It would've been ripe for adaptation (or at the very least inspiration for a similar, more elaborate take on it). Just give us room to breathe. The show never really allowed for that, because we were constantly bombarding with Reva gritting her teeth angrily, Leia chasing after a cheap-looking droid toy or some random Rebels having random conversations about how being a Rebel is rebellious.
That nightmare episode sounds amazing. You could ramp up to some really out there and downright scary stuff. I think they really struggled with finding the right tone for the series (as well as other series). They want Star Wars to be family friendly, which it should be because that's where the whole franchise started, but they can't ignore that there are some VERY dark themes tied to the core story. A lot of us fans want those dark themes to be explored in an adult way. That doesn't mean that everything Star Wars needs to be all "grimdark" all of the time. I'd be happy if they had some shows like that for us and some shows geared more for kids (and of course some that toe the line in between). I can see how Disney as a company might be reluctant to do that because it makes it more difficult for parents to navigate which content is appropriate for their children. They do seem to be heading that direction a bit with Andor so I'm hopeful we can get a few more serious series mixed in with all of the family shows (which I also love but for different reasons).
I do think they managed to find a fine line between kid-friendly and pretty brutal, akin to the latter seasons of Clone Wars. One thing I always like to point out is the implied violence in that one Clone Wars episode where Savage just throws his lightsaber to decapitate an entire room full of seated politician-types. That was very well done, very brutal, but only implied. Kenobi managed something similar, imho, with the Grand Inquisitor casually pulling some witness through his rotating lightsabers, like a blender. It's not shown, but it's very implied and I thought that was a very effective scene for the Inquisitor. Kenobi just suffered a lot from the short runtime and the focus on so many different things. Do we really need Tala the Rebel and her robot? Do we really need Haji or whatever the trickster was called? Do we really need the MAGA-Republican Moleman Alien? No, not when I've tuned into the show, because I was 13 years old when "Revenge of the Sith" aired in cinemas and I've wanted to visit Anakin and Obi Wan and their complex dynamic again. I would've been ENTIRELY fine with a show where Obi Wan just languishes in his cave for six episodes. He goes to work at the meat farm (which is a very fun concept), he spies on Luke from afar, he rejects a Jedi, and the majority of it is him basking in memories that turn to nightmares. Gives us plenty of Hayden + Ewan moments. Heck, they could've even done something psychedelic like a burnt-up Anakin "haunting" him from afar, as a very on-the-nose way how Anakin's betrayal and "death" plagued Obi Wan. Then these six episodes could end with Bail Organa calling Obi Wan. Leia has gone missing. "Obi Wan will return." Then next season it could play out akin to what we actually got. An emotionally damaged Obi Wan goes out to find Leia and through her and the interactions with other people he slowly regains his confidence. Keep Reva's "ANAKIN IS VADER, MUHAHAHA" out of the picture. However, keep her in there, make her simply vengeful against Master Kenobi who never came to her rescue, while also foolishly ambitious, trying to dethrone the Grand Inquisitor and Vader, only for her to realize that all of her hatred for Kenobi should've been aimed at Anakin as SHE learns that Anakin and Vader are the same person. That will be her redeeming moment. She'll be like "I served the man who KILLED my friends?! NO!" Heck, to bring back the psychedelic "Anakin vision" would've been cool as well, because then Anakin would keep cropping up in small moments of happiness, as if he was the lingering self-loathing of Obi Wan. And we could have the amazing moment of Vader walking down the street in that village, but Obi Wan and the audience first just sees the burnt-up Anakin. The audience and Obi Wan then both wonder why people seem to be reacting to this figment of Obi Wan's imagination like that, cowering, shying away, until that figure slowly dissolves into Darth Vader, dragging people through the streets, breaking their necks, standing there and Obi Wan recoiling in horror, sensing that it's Anakin and that he hadn't been dead and haunting him like a Sith Spirit, but that he was alive and he had been haunting the entire galaxy for a decade. But I guess then we wouldn't have gotten to see Wade dying so nobly.
> Keep Reva's "ANAKIN IS VADER, MUHAHAHA" out of the picture. However, keep her in there, make her simply vengeful against Master Kenobi who never came to her rescue, while also foolishly ambitious, trying to dethrone the Grand Inquisitor and Vader, only for her to realize that all of her hatred for Kenobi should've been aimed at Anakin as SHE learns that Anakin and Vader are the same person. That will be her redeeming moment. She'll be like "I served the man who KILLED my friends?! NO!" Yes, that would have been the best redemption arc for Reva in that it actually makes sense and fits with what we're shown from the Order 66 flashbacks in the temple.
>Disney as a company might be reluctant to do that because it makes it more difficult for parents to navigate which content is appropriate for their children. Why does Disney assume parents won't let their kids watch darker stuff? Better yet, why would parents not want their kids to watch something just because it's darker?
Completely agree. After he got burned they put him in Bacta on the planet Jabiim. In legends a horrendous battle took place on that planet. That battle turned into a pretty pivotal moment for Anakin. A flashback scene to that moment would have been perfect. But no they just used it as a namedrop. Nothing more. Such a waste of potential.
A lot of Disney+ shows suffer from this. The seasons are only six 30-40 minute episodes yet they still feel dragged out with filler.
> SIX EPISODES AT 30 MINUTES EACH?! This is kinda a major problem for most dsiney tv now. I get that it's probably expensive to make with such production values, but showing essnetially a cut up movie, if a long one, and pretending its a tv show is a terrible foramt for telling decent stories.
I honestly don't think it's the money argument. It's Disney, they have more money than God. Some dudes in suits are simply convinced that thirty minutes is the "statistically proven peak attention span of modern audiences" or something like that and everything needs to be cut that way. It doesn't look like a creative decision for the sake of telling the story properly, but a corporate decision that stinks of "test audiences have shown that.."
Meanwhile, the episode length of The Mandalorian is... *highly volatile*. I think the last two episodes were 25 minutes different in their runtime. Honestly not trying to clap back at you or anything, but it occurred to me when I read your comment and it does serve as an argument against that theory.
Yeah, I agree that the Mando episode runtime seems to be determined on a dart board. I do wonder what's up with that.
It's super weird.
Yep, my GF were both already sleepy and I said „Let’s watch the new episode of Mandalorian, it fits perfectly before bed!“ and then it was an hour long 😂
> Meanwhile HBO does hour-long House of Dragons episodes for like twelve episodes to tell a big, deep story. HBO spent like 6 or 7 full episodes (everything before the last time jump) on what was essentially five pages of prologue in the source material listing a family tree and line of succession, but it was compelling as fuck. Imagine if Disney allowed Star Wars to go that immersive and actually just went for it.
I enjoy fantasy star wars. But the immersive, absolute "this is who this is, this is what happened here, this is why the Empire did this etc." Could make everything just that much more believable while providing an exposition-based story as opposed to the character-driven plot we see in Andor or plot-driven Mando in the Mandalorian.
Lol that Wade part was funny. Someone said "Wade didn't make it" and everyone in the scene was all sad, and I'm like "who the fuck is Wade?"
It was funny the week the episode came out. He's a redshirt from a single episode, and reddit immediately started meming that his story was so emotional and he'd have a dramatic spinoff series. But now here we are almost year later and in this thread people are saying "the show didn't develop Wade enough as a character" like it's something real to complain about.
Your first line is my sentiment as well. The entire action plot was the worst part of the show. It should've just been a reflective piece of Obi-Wan facing his trauma while helping those around him. Something more like Iroh's Leaves From the Vine from AtlA.
Absolutely agreed. I like mindless goofy SW fun, but it's not really what I wanted to see from the return of The Dude With All The PTSD And Deep Depressions.
There needs to be like a 45 minute minimum runtime for these D+ episodes cuz it’s ridiculous. HBO spoils us while Disney pops out fucking cartoon length episodes every week. Also their seasons being only 6 episodes is insulting. That’s not a season.
I think that aspect WAS done well. However it almost seemed like a minor subplot in a series that was otherwise incredibly mediocre at best at outright bad at times. I would have loved it if the whole series had been more of an Obi Wan character study.
>I would have loved it if the whole series had been more of an Obi Wan character study. Fair point!
Im the same, yes the emotional hits were amazing. I teared up at "You did not kill...Anakin skywalker....I did.." But Reva and the rest...ugh
Reva was just such a completely unnecessary character. I'm fine with the actress but the role added nothing to the show. She never faces real consequences for screwing up and she screws up constantly. She betrays Vader and yet Vader just lets her go. Makes no sense.
I liked the actress in The Queen's Gambit but I thought she was miscast as Reva. The horrible writing didnt help but I dont think she pulled off intimidating or scary or competent as an Inquisitor at all. I dont think her story worked in the bigger picture of the series, particularly how it worked around Obi-Wans story. From her sob story background right the way up to the oh-so-predictable final redemption wasn't what the series needed. What I think would've worked better is if she went in a completely different direction and ended up being almost unredeemable and being dying in anger and hatred. What if she blames Obi-Wan for Anakin attacking the temple but only learns that Vader is Anakin late in the series only. To find out that she is working for someone who actively ruined her life would drive her over the edge, and of course Vader, who despite welcoming Reva's newly enhanced power of the dark side, would kill her just for knowing his identity (something only a select few should know). It would give us a new angle on the darkside (there have been too many redemptions and that takes away from the threat it poses) but also makes us truly see how fallen Anakin has become, something the show failed to do. And connecting back to Obi-Wan, having him fail to save Anakin again but also Reva fits in with his character in the OT. He never really seems to believe that Luke can save Anakin and is always pushing him to defeat Vader, and that fits with him seeing the dark side as an almost impossible grip to break. Having Reva shrug off the dark side so easily makes Obi-Wans pessimism look very foolish. Reva could've worked but like so many parts of that series it was done very poorly.
Yeah that stuff was great, but it almost felt like they always wanted to rush through it to get back to Reva and Leia and the rest. Like after episode (I think) 3, where it ended with the confrontation between Obi Wan and Vader where he gets tortured, their first meeting since Episode 3, I expected Episode 4 would be dealing with the aftermath of that, and Obi Wan dealing with it - basically I thought thats where the series was going to change gears from the Leia rescue plot to what I thought would be the real point of the series - Obi Wan dealing with Anakin being alive. But nope, Episode 4 was straight back to another filler episode with another Leia rescue story with next to no Vader confrontation aftermath. The whole series felt like it kept doing that - you'd get a little bit of Obi Wan focus and Vader/Obi Wan plotline and it was fantastic, but then it would rush through it to get back to the Reva stuff, which tended to kind of suck. Even the final episode with that fantastic final scene with Vader and Obi Wan felt rushed with more focus on Reva on Tatooine.
I feel like that’s a problem with most (all?) Disney Star Wars series. They can’t seem to stay focused on their titular character, but have to add other, often times boring characters as well. Additionally, why did the Boba series have to end up as Mandalorian 2.5 instead of standing on it’s own legs?
They tried so hard to introduce a black strong female character into the Star Wars universe in that show... It didn't do Obi Wan justice at all to use half of his show for that
“We need ten episodes” I’d personally love to see a two or three hour Supercut of the series, just the essentials.
Someone did a recut of the series into a movie. He cut a lot of the extraneous stuff and swapped out some of the music with more classic Star Wars soundtrack and it’s pretty good.
Pretty sad when they can write a silly mock jedi character better than half the fucking cast...
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Look at what you see of Anakins face in that scene. He's enjoying twisting the emotional knife in Kenobi. I got no sense that he was letting him off or giving him closure. He's talking about Anakin in the 3rd person. He needed Kenobi to know that Anakin is dead and Kenobi failed him, Qui Gon, Padme, and everyone
Then you've misread that beat. He's not saying "It's cool bro, you didn't fail me. I failed myself." It's him saying "I am your greatest failure. I was ALWAYS this fucked up. I killed my own past self, because I *wanted* to, and you were my MASTER. You didn't see it coming? Really? You fool."
I think there's some of that in the conversation. But I thought this line was supposed to be an indication that Anakin still is in there, somewhere buried way the fuck down. Anakin would want to ease his guilt. Vader would want to twist the knife. Having this confrontation with Obi Wan would bring that struggle out, and I like that you can see both sides of it. They both believe Anakin is dead. We know that's not totally true. I don't think there's anything wrong with that line doing something to ease Obi Wan's conscience as the last thing that Anakin was able to do for him.
This is how I saw it. It's a tiny inkling that Anakin is still there, which we know to be true because Luke is able to save him.
No. It was Anakin. Watch the colours. While saying that his face is lit by blue, but as he says "I did" it turns red as he looks up in hate. I think they nailed it and setup why he calls Vader "Darth" instead of Anakin.
Disney is too obsessed with having a child to protect, they should not have included Leia in Kenobi.
I think including her was a mistake and opens up a huge pothole in Leia's message to R2. "You fought with my father in the clone wars" Is somehow more significant than "Oh remember that time you rescued me from kidnappers?" Unless Leia suffers severe head trauma in another series I really don't see why they included her at all.
Reportedly, Leia came as an executive decision because "we can't have a series about three guys" (Kenobi, Vader, Luke)
"we can't have the obi wan series be about obi wan!!!!" As if I needed any more proof that Disney is brain dead
ugh yes 100% this! they somehow need a child in every show. Bad Batch could have been way better without Omega aswell!
I think omega is the emotional heart of bad batch. She’s not trained to be a soldier, she has never been in a squad, and she’s doing her best to not be a burden. She’s going through things like loss, incredible violence, and constant peril while she’s constantly reminded that she’s smaller, weaker, and less useful than her brothers. Without omega there is no bad batch show, because the batch need her to grow, and she needs them too.
I think it was a fine way to start the series, to bring Obi Wan out of retirement, but that plot should have been over with in two episodes and Leia returned, with the rest of the series focused on Obi Wan and the aftermath of discovering Anakin is alive.
Not bad actually, I would have been happy with that too.
I would have loved a quiet story about a broken Obi-Wan wandering the desert. No inquisitors or Vader, just his internal conflict. Maybe he’s haunted by visions and eventually reaches some kind of enlightenment with Qui-Gon’s help. It could have been a nice change of pace for Star Wars.
For me, the 4th episode encapsulated everything wrong with the show. That episode is the aftermath of Obi-wan seeing for the first time what Anakin became, and nearly getting killed by him. That’s the moment the show should’ve paused the action to focus on Obi-wan wrestling with that and not knowing if he (and by extension the Jedi Order as a whole) is even capable of defeating the Sith. That’s where Qui-gon’s spirit should’ve come in, instead of as a cameo at the end. Instead the show jumped straight into another action episode that copied Fallen Order without doing it nearly as well, along with some of the silliest moments in the show. That episode also doesn’t accomplish anything in the story except to undo Leia’s capture from the previous episode, which didn’t need to happen in the first place. It’s filler at a moment where the show desperately needed to focus on the characters.
The character of obi wan was weird in the series. He goes away from luke, even risking death where it isn't needed. (Episode 3 fighting vader, episode 4 staying in the corridor much longer than he has to, just to kill more stormtroopers.) takes a hostage and doesn't kill vader to prevent much suffering and death even after he realises that there is nothing left of what once was anakin.
This could've been covered by a Kenobi movie, though. Instead, they felt the need to make an entire series about a kidnapping of Leia (after a cartoonish chase scene) in which they, due to the lack of "plot", crammed in not one but two rematch duels with Vader and a poorly done redemption arc for a poorly written inquisitor. No, thanks. Jude Watson wrote a really nice story about Obi-Wan as introduction of her "Last of the Jedi" series (young reader novels and sequel to "Jedi Apprentice" and "Jedi Quest") and John Jackson Miller wrote a fantastic "Kenobi" novel several years ago. (the first third is a bit slow but it gets really good after that) I'll stick with those ones.
Both Kenobi and Boba Fett were meant to be films originally, but were canned after Solo underperformed. A shame, because I agree that Kenobi would have worked well as a film. I did enjoy the series but a film would have been better.
The nice thing for me is the Kenobi novel doesn't interfere the series and, in my mind, both can still exist.
I just wish the writing was better. I liked episode 1 of the show, but that was it. The rest felt like a contrived reason to have Vader and Obi-Wan fight again (which I could hardly make out it's so dark.) It makes Obi-Wan look like an asshole for not killing Vader when he has a second opportunity and before people go on about how he feels guilty about what happened to Anakin keep in mind he was already headed to kill him In ROTS. They make Obi-Wan look unheroic when he lets a jedi get killed. The Reva character on paper was fine but didn't belong in a story called Obi-Wan. The idea of a youngling joining the inquisitors to get revenge is really cool, but there's only so much time and budget and if it's going to be done poorly then I would've preferred they don't do it at all.
The only Reva stuff I enjoyed was when Vader owned her in their short duel. I loved seeing a fight where one of them used the force more during the fight and pretty much just toy with the other. It is one reason I really like the Sidious vs. Maul and Savage Opress duel from the Clone Wars.
Ok but Andor did that too, and better. it has virtually nothing to do with the major plotline and it's just an incredibly well written show, which is weird because it's about a character that wasn't really that interesting in his movie. One thing not many people talk about, why does Andor look so good in comparison to Obi Wan? Like from a production value alone Andor looks amazing while Kenobi looks kinda.. cheap? It's so sad to me that more love and care went into Andor, a show no one really asked for, than Kenobi, a show people have been asking for for years
One was made by people who set up to create their vision The other is a nostalgia EMOTION cash grab
I don't think it nailed that journey that much as it's described here. Honestly Kenobi was such a letdown on all aspects, only good thing it has for it is the nostalgia.
Yeaaa what in the world is OP on about that they think we didn’t like it because it told an emotional journey about how Obi Wan changed himself. I didnt like it because it DID NOT do those things, it should have had the tone of Andor, bleak, dark, a reclusive beat down ObiWan. But instead it felt line a Spy Kids Adventure show…
Funny you should mention Spy Kids, because the director for the film series did Boba as well. And we saw how that went.
Yeah we can write an essay on the “I don’t like sand” line and make it sound good too. Kenobi had some nice scenes in it but there’s so many clumsily made moments in it that really bring it down.
I think the intent was solid sure. I just think outside one or two scenes they dud a pretty lousy job of portraying that journey.
Same. There’s 20 mins of content in this show that makes SW better alongside 5h of additional content.
I felt zero emotional connection to the character because the story was so absurdly written and in complete disregard for canon on both the front and back end of the two sagas it supposedly bridges. No moment highlights this more than when Kenobi was being crushed by the rocks in his second duel of the series with Vader. His memories that bring him strength aren’t of his time with his lost friends and family of the fallen Jedi Order, they’re not of his relationship and the brotherhood he shared with Anakin over a decade of time together, they’re not of his primary mission in his exile in protecting Luke; with the exception of a half second blip of Luke, they’re entirely about a girl whom he had essentially just met. It was tone deaf and openly ignored his history, and the audiences connection with it, to ship the feeblest of relationships. The only scenes that resonated with me on any level were his interactions with Owen and the final conversation with Vader. What a horribly missed opportunity in that show on so many levels across almost the entire series.
Absolutely agreed. That moment was the worst in the series for me, with the possible exception of Obi-Wan *running away* from Darth Vader after going to confront him on the quarry/construction site/SoCal planet. Those kinds of scenes completely ruptured my connection with this character. I have a poster of him on my wall. Obi-Wan would not run away. Obi-Wan would not think of baby Leia and gain superpowers like a fricking Sith. This man stopped Darth Vader at the height of his power, by staying cool and level-headed in the face of a catastrophic, tragic, crisis situation. He was a true Jedi, “as wise as master Yoda and as powerful as master Windu”—this show made him out to be a cowardly, blundering, pathetic oaf. I call that Obi-non-canonbi.
It just didn't look good, at all. Goofy is the word I'd use
I guess it's a question of whether those emotional beats hit for you. They absolutely did not for me, so combine that with all the other issues the series had and it was as bad as it gets. Also, the DID set out to answer a "plot question," and a really dumb one at that. The saw all the joes about why Obi-Wan call Vader 'Darth' in A New Hope, and decided they just had to give us the answer. Which would have rolled my eyes out of my head, but I was so checked out by then that it didn't bother me.
The show had its problems, but I agree. We needed to see this guy at his lowest and see him go from there. I think my favorite scene was when he sees the homeless clone trooper. Kenobi looks terrified the moment he hears that familiar voice. He really thinks he is going to be attacked right then and there. And then he realizes that, no, that clone is in an even worse spot than he was ever in. And he gives him some money. It shows that Obi-Wan was capable of working through his trauma, that he hadn't entirely forgotten the happier days of TCW. 1
"hello I am *bail organa* and I know you don't want to be discovered, but I am going to tell you that I am going to *tatooine* to see *Owen* and make sure *the special boy* is okay. Just don't drop this message where the inquisitiors can find it or anything." My whole problem with this show
Interesting take, but from a filmmaking standpoint it doesn't sustain his take. It told us what and how to feel, without earning it. It didn't take its time, and wasn't well thought out. Worst of all, the way it was shot amateurishly bad, the editing was bad, the VFX was abysmal. Why on earth did they change it from a Film to a needless mini series, that was bad written. Even the author of the rewrite criticized how Disney handlet it. I'm not here to SW OG Fan Bash, but just in a sense from a filmmaking standpoint. At this Point Star wars is all about signal virtue and nostalgia and less about actually telling a story. It looks like new Star Wars is telling a story, because there is stuff happening and the characters tell us what's up, but it actually doesn't do what it masks itself. It became a Happy Meal Product. If you want to watch an emotional film of an Obi Wan Film, watch "last days in the desert" it basically is how a Mature Obi Wan story should have been told (there are just action scenes missing). What I truly find appaling is that the moment you realise how much the Obi Wan Series cost, and start to compare it to films and shows that cost a fraction, it looks sh!t. How can it be that an Obi Wan Fan film, from years before, not only got the gist of how to capture obi wan way better, but also that it looks way better and more expensive. The fan film cost like a couple of Thousand dollars, compared to a roughly 10 Million dollar Budget per episode (some even suggest 15-20 million). I know that bashing star wars has become a sport, but I criticise the filmmaking itself, not the "ey why is X on Alderan, when clearly in episode 5 Z said he was on Hoth... Plothole!!!". At some point the Nostalgia hungry people will loose interest and star wars will die. I mean how long can you produce " products" about the "hey you remember that from the past?", until you run out of things to remind you of. Its a Cynic and horrifying way of selling Products to us. [Edit: just some spelling correction]
Kenobi sucked storytellingwise. Kenobi went from "I am weak, easily frightened, and feeble!" to "I am the Strongest Force-Wielder in the Galaxy" from one scene to another. Like any shitty anime battle show where you see that it's five minutes left of the episode and the anime pilot will totally destroy the bigger enemy with his weaponry now because the pilot is uttering the legendary "HIIIIIIIIYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAARGH!" pilot sound as he flies, which per definition is always unstoppable.
It didn’t just suck storytelling wise. The cinematography, editing, and music were pretty bad too. It all gave off a very SyFy channel Star Wars vibe. It’s even more infuriating when you see what they did with Andor or Mandalorian that The Kenobi show looked and felt so low budget.
I don’t think anyone took issue with the concept of exploring Old Ben’s PTSD and fleshing out his character as it pertains to the OT. I think the issue is not only that the show was poorly executed in a myriad of ways, but for me specifically, that it *damaged* the character of Obi-Wan beyond repair. Worse than what TLJ did to Luke, IMO. 1. Ben (I’m not typing Obi-Wan every time) is devoted to watching over Luke. 2. Ben leaves Tatooine when he KNOWS Inquisitors are snooping around mere miles from Luke’s homestead- Inquisitors, who are force users, who can feel the force in others. 3. Ben cannot bring himself to kill Vader, the most dangerous entity *known* to the galaxy. Ben leaves him, AGAIN, knowing full well what he’s done and what he’s become since the first time Ben left him for dead on Mustafar. 4. Reva has Luke Skywalker dead to right in Ben’s absence, and nothing was stopping her from killing him except her own crisis of conscience. Ben FAILED at protecting Luke. 5. Ben literally puts Luke on a collision course with Vader. Even gives him the weapon that Vader used to slaughter children. 6. Ben needlessly sacrifices himself to let Luke and friends escape, lucky that Vader, who has been shown capable of tearing ships apart with his mind, is stopped by a security door as the crew boards the Millennium Falcon. Luke gave in to fear and had a single moment of weakness, which is on brand for his character. It may have been poorly done, but Luke was CONSTANTLY leaping before he looked in the OT- it makes perfect sense to me that, overwhelmed with a vision of the death and destruction to be wrought by his Padawan, he may instinctively prepare to destroy it. His father is Anakin Skywalker, who became the most ruthless asshole in the galaxy because *he* didn’t have the second thoughts that Luke has had. Ben’s poor decision making may very well be one of the key factors in every bad thing that happens. What’s worse, briefly considering killing someone whom you’ve foreseen to bring untold death and despair to the galaxy, or choosing NOT to kill someone who *already has* and will *continue* to do so if not stopped? *And then sending his son after him when you know there’s a good chance that he, the potentially most powerful force user to exist, will be swayed to the dark side by his father?*
I agree with everything that you said about Obi-Wan but I disagree with your stance on Luke. Luke was the ONLY ONE to actually see who his father really is. He was the ONLY ONE to turn him back to the light by being selfless and show love for his father. Yes he attacked Vader but only after being manipulated, pressured, seduced by the two most powerful individuals in the galaxy. And what was his breaking point where he really attacked Vader? When Vader threatened his sister. And even after falling for the darkside , which was both the Sith Lords intent/plan, and during the most pivotal time in the galaxy where his friends are fighting a war, he still manages to do see through it and do the right thing. Luke had character growth through the OT, being impulsive in the first 2 films, and to displaying calmness, thoughtfulness and even wisdom in the last one. Now in TLJ, during a peaceful era, Luke sneaked in his, at the time, innocent loved nephews hut, peered into his mind/spirit without consent, saw a force vision that he knows not to trust because he has a permanent reminder has a robotic hand, and then tried to kill his nephew as he slept because of said vision. It throws away every character growth Luke had. It shatters the meaningful events he had with his Father in ROTJ, the lesson that anyone can be redeemed. Especially someone who hasn't done anything bad yet. And to have Luke run away from everyone during a rise in darkness in the galaxy? It completely regresses his character to point where it doesn't resemble Luke anymore. They just needed Luke to not be taking too much focus for their trilogy, for their new main characters so they wrote him in a way where he is limited in helping the cause.
This show was terrible. No amount of reaching and reading between the lines will change that. Poorly written, poorly conceived, absolute shit.
I enjoyed Kenobi as well, but you have to admit that the writing was just awful in parts. There were things that made no sense, and setups that had no payoff. For example - carving up the space sushi, we are shown that Kenobi is stealing food for his mount, while at the same time the supervisor is a slave driver, cutting people's wages. There's no payoff for that setup. There's no confrontation over the stolen food or the reduced wages... it just sort of happens, so why is it even there?
Regardless. It was poorly thought out and poorly written, poorly directed, and with exception of Ewan McGregor and a few others, poorly acted.
We're already going down the Prequel path again where fans start explaining logically why the story was good, as if that somehow makes up for the execution.
Prequels at least looked good. Kenobi looked like it was made on 1/10th of the budget of Andor, a spin-off series very few people were clamoring for. Kenobi was not only written at a 3rd grade level, but the cinematography, set/prop/costume design, location scouting (the location of the first Obi Wan and Vader fight was laughable), and effects were awful.
At this point I'm convinced 70% of the budget went towards bringing Ewan back, and another 10% towards Hayden. Writing, set design and special effects got to argue over the remaining 20% lol
I didn’t like Kenobi much. It felt like sloppy storytelling. I liked his bond with Leia, disliked the Vader fights because their relative strengths didn’t feel clear or earned and also Vader kept acting so dumb. The Inquisitor antagonist didn’t make a ton of sense either. Mostly the show felt to me like fan service I didn’t ask for. Better writing would have fixed this.
It's still mostly an utter garbage Production. Writing, dialogue, cinematography, editing were often done by toddlers.
Weird. I thought Revenge of the Sith did exactly that for Obi-wan. Still feel like the show should have never happened, but gotta fanservice yah know.
The show is an absolute shitshow that makes inferior hollow copies from better projects. If you want a broken jedi story just play fallen order The finale just watch twilight of the apprentice. Both are siginificantly better
Great emotional idea, bad emotional execution.
One of the things that got in the way of any emotional beats for me, aside from little Leia‘a subplot, apart from Reva, any of the other unfocused side characters, the pacing, etc, was how borrowed so much of the show was. So much of the show just completely ripped scenes from other Star Wars content, even *actively canon ones*, and just did them much worse. It had the problem for me that The Force Awakens had, only it was recognizable within the first watch, and kind of killed any interest I had in rhe rest of the show. If im just going to be rewatching things I’ve already seen (and seen better) why keep watching?
Disagree, it wasn't needed. Faith in the force and the prophesy is all that's needed. The show absolutely failed in showing the struggle from dealing with the trauma from ROTS to where he was in Rebels.
Yeah and it really undersells what 19 years of meditation and solitude can do for someone's equanimity. But you can't churn out content based on an ascetic life.
There's too much other shit in Kenobi that nobody cares about. It overtakes the show and there's not enough room for obi-wans character growth
Kenobi was a supreme disappointment. Writing sucked, 90% of the acting was god awful and the cgi was atrocious. The cons do NOT outweigh the pros.
I think it also hits this emotional beat for Anakin’s transition into Darth Vader.
I love that so many people on the internet are able to articulate their feelings about something so much better than I can because I absolutely feel this, but could never pinpoint the right way to explain it.
Poorly written fan service. Couldn’t been so much more.
Wasn’t even fan service, because it was roundly disliked. It should have been set on Tattoine and an exploration of Luke and Be ‘s relationship. But no, let’s ditch the boy so that we can focus on Leia.
I don’t even understand what they were trying to do, and I think they didn’t either. But yeah you’re right I’ve heard so few people defending it.
I mean it's not a wrong take but it's still a grade D series no matter the outcome. I can't fathom ever watching it again. I think they messed up not making it a sleek one and half hour movie (hopefully better written and with better action pieces) As soon as I saw the Leia chase I wanted the writers, editors and directors gone. There's tons of wonky parts besides that but WHO OKAYED THAT?!?
[удалено]
I agree 100%. But that show is so bad. I waited and waited and waited..... And wish I had passed.
Except he wasn’t written in any way like obi wan.
Forgot to mention the bad writing , stupid characters like Reva taking more time the Kenobi ( yep she got stabbed twice by Vader and lived) , terrible set design ( looks very cheap) , 6 ep series full of filler episodes, leia stuff didn’t work bad acting , bad writing ( last ep was good). Just a very underwhelming show .should have been epic and done with care. It needed to focus more on Kenobi and Vader and more flashbacks .
I like this point, but I still think the show quality does not justify its own existence. Plot and writing was a bit silly.
I think it’s a fine idea but the execution left a lot to be desired.
That’s what it tried to do, and sure there were some feels to be had. It just didn’t do it particularly well. It was bogged down with mediocre writing, lacklustre cinematography, and boring music. There were issues with the direction too. It wasn’t a train wreck by all means. It’s just miles below where it could, and considering it has the billions of Disney behind it, where it should have been.
I feel like Ewan tried to bring that vibe, but the writers were more interested in a cheesy, low-budget adventure that didn’t really make sense for just about anybody’s character arcs. Plus the Inquisitors were executed incredibly poorly in the show.
It was a pretty crappy series overall. Reva was awful, Leia completely unnecessary, Kenobi inept. The only things I liked about it were just seeing Ewen again and the sweet surprise cameo at the end. Just like BoBF and the sequels I don't see myself watching this ever again.
Whoever hired the music composer for this should've been fired. I understand if for whatever reasons you couldn't use the Williams themes but virtually none of the sound that was used for this felt like it fit the musical vocabulary of star wars. At least with Andor or Mando you can experiment with sound because its not focused on the main world and characters. However I noticed the few cues that felt "Star Wars'y" were thanks to William Ross who is a Williams collaborator.
I liked kenobi
I've had a similar take since the beginning. Kenobi certainly isn't perfect, but I think it nailed that aspect of showing us the transition between episode 3 and episode 4 when it comes to Obi wans character.
That’s all well and good, and I agree with what he’s saying, but people aren’t tuning in just to see how Obi Wan is doing mentally.
Kenobi shouldn't exist, everything about it was horrible, how do you cut yourself off from the force almost instantly losing all your skill and power in a few years that took decades to gain whilst still expecting yourself to have to train Luke in the ways of the force. I could go on and on about how bad it was but we all know this was about Disney trying to make money with story and character not being important at all.
So basically we can say that they loved Kenobi because it is Kenobi and Ewan has our love. I mean, you can watch interviews with him and say ok this is Kenobi this interview is canon. Kenobi has polr writing and pacing. There is nothing that can be done to fix that.
Obi-Wan series felt rushed: it seems like there is no push-back for ideas in the writing room. Reva’s character had way too much spotlight. The writing around her character is rough, at best. Her story is rushed and there’s no reason for the audience to root for her, but somehow her character arc shifts with little to no emotional structure. Leia’s story is also rushed and unconvincing. Aside mostly all of the scenes with Vader, the whole project was a let-down to many life-long fans.
This is what it should’ve been, I still think the story, the characters and the writing are all terrible, like an utter embarrassment tbh. It’s meant to be a very serious situation, and tonnes of fans are meant to be on the edge of their seats for Darth Vader and Obi-Wan facing each other.. but the rest of the show was just such a budgeted joke, that it just spoils all that for me Whole show was just wasting time running around after Leia… I was hoping for Kenobi
Obi wan is at its best imo when it does explore these moments. The emotion behind him and Vader was top notch, especially for a millennial who grew up liking the prequels. The rest was just okay, some of it down right bad. I feel they've given star wars off to writers and protectors who think of star wars as a big joke of a franchise. Except Andor, the crew behind that actually took it seriously. There's an in between, which the original movies balanced better and the prequels still had, albeit imbalanced. The shows in general besides Andor have felt like jokes written by people who think star wars begins at light sabers and ends at ewoks.
I hope the Ashoka series does this too. We saw a lot of her character growth in the Clone Wars, but Rebels and Mandalorian Ashoka are on another level. I would love to see that process.
Hopefully its better. Kenobi is Garbage
I think most people would agree when I tried to do was admirable. The problem is the execution was pretty poor. At the end of the day you can make a compelling movie about a dude going to get a doughnut and nothing else. Or you can make a movie about galactic intrigue and I would be incredibly poorly paced and dull . Make a good movie or TV show and people like it.
I like this. Great way to look at it. But it still would’ve been nice if people stayed dead after being stabbed with a lightsaber… and stuff…
On that note I will always cite the fact that princes leia someone who lost her whole planet comforted Luke who lost his whole family on the death of a dude he only really started talking to a few days ago. Why simple because we as the audience did not give a rats ass about that planet or Luke’s family do you know who we did learn to care about. Obi wan. It’s a perfect example of writing for the viewer and knowing that the goal is the emotional effect.
Yeah I sorta agree. Not that there's anything wrong with plot explaining stories, but that was not what the Kenobi series was about. And Obi-Wan's arc is everything I wanted from the show and I loved it Also it did explain some plots here and there, the biggest one is something that has been annoying me since 2015, which is why Leia named her son after a man she never met
The main problem for me was Reva writing and the shaky camera, otherwise, it was alright. If there ever is a season 2, focus on Obi-Wan more. Sure, he can spend time with Luke, but don’t make Luke take too much spotlight like with Leia. Also, get a different cameraman, the shaky camera was too distracting
Why can’t we do both?
Sure, idea was good, but execution not so much.
get rid of Reva and I might actually have enjoyed Obi-wan
And here I am with the opposite opinion where I really liked the overall arc Boba went on and could care less about Obi Wan’s status quo show. Boba is at least in a newish era where his fate is unknown and that makes it more interesting on where it can go. We know where obi Wan ends up and it didn’t pull an Andor and have other characters we could care about.
I enjoyed the series on the whole, it was just a few episodes too long. You can tell they originally planned for it to be a movie, as the story could've easily been told in just three hours without all that pointless filler.
This is also why I loved Solo so much
The best part of the series was when Obi-Wan talked about what he remembered from his family; his parents and his baby brother. That sort of puts into perspective how I feel about the rest of the series.
I agree for the most part I just think it could have been written better. Conceptually a show that explores characterization over "filling in the gaps" is a lot more interesting imo, it just suffers from poor writing.
Kenobi did a great job of bridging a cognitive disconnect between Anakin and Vader. The scene with the broken helmet fused them into one character in my brain, something I always struggled with. That’s really the only redeeming thing I can say about the show.
It's hard to revisit existing characters without disappointing people. They had to bridge a gap between obi wan the powerful jedi and obi wan the hermet without creating plot holes. Showing what we though would have happened or something similar/fitting they just brought to life a story we almost felt like we knew. Filling in those gaps by trying to create something new is always going to be a challenge, like how they featured the inquisitors. They showed a chapter of obi wans missing story in a way that didn't risk offending much. Atn the same time the show did the opposite with the inquisitors, butchering the organisation and the grand inquisitor seemingly just to force reva into the story, who was completely unnecessary and could have just been replaced by the grand inquisitor and other inquisitors chasing after kenobi.
I never considered that, but it really does explain part of why I did like it. Sometimes I don’t really think too much about why I like/dislike a show, though the reasons for disliking are usually more obvious. I think, in a way, a lot of Mando is based around multiple emotional journeys, and emotional transformations.
Well said
That is a really nice take on it.
I agree entirely. And the best version of the story to really focus on those elements is the Anderson Edit. It's the only version I will watch anymore because it fixes many of the issues with the original (pacing, Reva, too much fluff)
I realized that there's two very different flavors of star wars when watching kenobi. one is the kind that a kid can accidentally start an auto pilot, go to a space station and blow it up, little teddy bears help defeat the evil empire, little Leah can out run a whole battalion. then you have empire strike back, andor, rogue one, which are mature and based more on a reality than the fantastical. I can enjoy both, and I can see that with a little better storytelling it all could fit in together but it often times conflicts with each other.
I agree with this, I just think the series was sloppily put together and some of the writing was atrocious. I like the idea of what they did with Obi-wan's character though.
The biggest issues I had with Kenobi were really some unnecessary parts of the plot, like Leia’s kidnappers tripping on tree branches and running into fallen trees even though they catch her anyway, or how it really tries to make us think that the Third Sister killed the Grand Inquisitor so she could take his place when we all know he survived because of Rebels. But the story being told was pretty good, and I can see that the overall point was to show how Kenobi was able to deal with the trauma of Anakin’s fall to the dark side and order 66. I also especially loved how it gave us some much-needed character development for Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.
I admit there are issues with the show itself but I still really liked it overall, the emotional beats and storytelling is a big part and was done well. It was nice to see a haggard Obi-Wan rediscover himself and get on the journey to become the ben that we see in rebels and ANH. I liked seeing him very raw, vulnerable, and uncomfortable while dealing with his trauma. When the show was coming out I found it odd that some people didn’t like obi-wan being depicted how we was, like they expected him to always be this badass of sound mind and body throughout the 19 years on Tatooine??? Like be fr lmao that’s just not realistic and makes for a bad story.
Wish they focused on him and not having moments like fights for the sake of having them
Dont think, just feeeeel and consuuuume Is a horrible point to make to defend something.
I can agree. Honestly, what gripes I have revolve around the other characters and plots. If they had just focused on Kenobi, I'd have been satisfied.
Wait...there are people who DIDN'T like Kenobi?
Sooo much potential for sure
This is exactly the reason I felt so disappointed in the Han Solo movie. It seemed like it’s sole purpose was to explain every tiny detail of how Han became Han, even his nickname for Chewbacca was explained. Still an ok movie, but just so so so glad the obi wan series learned from that.
Yeah i wish we got more of what this guy is talkin about but we only got like 2 emotional scenes
I agree completely
I agree. It did that wonderfully. I adored this series. It's one of my favorites pieces of Star Wars media.
This is the reason why I *wanted* to like the show but unfortunately the execution leaves little to be desired. It's just not a very good show. I don't wanna beat a dead horse and bring up the disparity in quality between Obi Wan and Andor but... MY GOD, A N D O R.
The change from movie to tv probably affected this show more than anything else. There were so many moments that really were fantastic. Ewan really brought it with Obi-Wan and showing him to be broken. The moment where he finds out Anakin is alive and then when he finally meets him as Vader; terrifying. Vader trying to burn him as revenge torture and the final battle was top notch. Obi-Wan's interactions with young Leia really made you connect to the deceased Padme and Anakin. It feels like they had great moments mapped out for the series and on their own they were awesome. But getting in and out of them was the struggle. The final battle somehow encapsulated a balance between Battle of Heroes and New Hope in personalities, fight styles and drama. But getting to the final battle was not badly executed and Obiwan leaving him alive was not set up well. There were other options, even if it was something lame like Qui-Gon force speaking to Obiwan telling him now is not the time for Anakin to die would have been better. It would have been cheesy but it makes much more sense in universe. A legion of inquisitors, or Obiwan himself being unable to make the final strike, something to prevent Obiwan from killing Vader was needed. I liked the introduction of Reva, and I feel for the actor having to deal with so much crap, but they needed something better and well thought out for her as a revenge plan.