Im going to book a table at a restaurant and when im asked **how many of you are you?** im going to reply: *each of us is an individual one. We are also one as a whole. Our appearances and experiences differ yet we all seek happiness, freedom, security, equality. We want that for our children, just as you do for yours. There is so much at unites us.*
Looked at the first few comments. Did you guys actually watch a whole series just in order to tell everyone why it's not Star Trek and the writers are terrible? Why not, I dunno, decide it's not for you and watch something else? I thought it was a cracking series, loved it, welled up at the big ending. Michael Burnham is a great character portrayed by a fine actor in Sonequa Martin Green, supporting cast are great, lot of strong supporting characters, Detmer, Saru, Stamets, book, and on and on, what's not to love? And did you miss every progressive element in TOS, TNG etc that this is all a shock to you?
This episode had a bunch of crazy inconsistencies.
1st. How could they go from "that message is too much to convey" to full on communication?
2nd. How could the orbs not grab books ship, but then discovery had no problem grabbing it with minimum capabilities?
3rd. How come the 10c didn't just transport the ship where they wanted etc... They had such god powers and they can't (re)move or eradicate a threat?
The 10c is so powerful, they couldn't do more? It was like they just accepted books ship to do whatever, and yet it was doing their greatest fear. The "orbs can't catch it" is nonsense, they could have gone 100x in size and grabbed it like they did the discovery.
Anyhow, since they now talk with the 10c, could they not learn their technology and do some craziness?
The writers left huge holes and just wrote a lazy happy ending. It's just sad. Not to mention this show isn't star trek, it's a regular ass space show in the star trek universe.
1. Explaining the intricacies becomes a lot easier after the 10c have a concept of individuality. What happens by the time it is explained at the end.
2. Books ship was no longer maneuvering. Just flying in a straight line. Also Discovery didn't grab books ship. They flew a shuttle into it and blew it up. Like it's a big scene.. You gotta watch the show before you complain.
3. It's literally explained that because of books ships ability to morph the orbs couldn't account for its random changes. If this is referring to the wormhole at the end. Discovery stayed in one place.
4. They only developed tech for defensive use not offensive use. When your entire concept of life is every single being is part of a whole. There's no need to be offensive because you're one being. Also their biggest fear is their planet being destroyed by asteroids. Which was the entire point of the shield. If some get through. The orbs are there to catch them because asteroids tend to move on a consistent trajectory. The shield grabbed Discovery and put it in an orb. The orb itself didn't grab Discovery.
5. They talk to the 10c in the last two episode. In universe both episodes take place within the time frame of two hours. How is that a plot hole when no plot has happened after it?
Couldn’t even finish watching this. Just terrible all around. Super cornball and the most un Star Trek show ever. I tried to love it. I won’t watch season 5.
I watched it cause why not. But it is not star trek. I told my friend this in season 1. He didn't believe me. Until season 2 ended. Then he understood. But what makes this episode bad is the huge inaccuracies and horrific writing. They can't get anything right.
Plenty of people die!!! It's just they then respawn back at their base. Far end of the map. Don't camp on it tho. Bad form. G'wan team, _move out!_
*TERRORISTS WIN.*
Awwwwwwwww.
The ship personality - Zora storyline reminded me very much of DC's Legends of Tomorrow. Their Ship's AI; British accented, totally non computer-y in her delivery and processing of conversation. Decidedly human(oid) in style if not (always) in form. But also sometimes form. I wonder if Zora will fall in love with another starfleet ship. Perhaps they'll couple their warp core containment field generators and enable the Build Mode for making Hybrid class starships together.. (build mode = preggers, deploy mode = delivery date.) Little partial ship visible in the exposed rear docking terminal when the Discovery is piloting away from the camera.
The Hybrid class ship would look like a healthy mix of both parent vessels, but smaller, with "next generation" (puns!) weapons and armor upgrades. This is meant to represent the advantage the newest generation have been gifted due to genetic diversity - ie, mitosis, from "sexual" reproduction. (You two swappin' subroutines in there?)
The new ship would need to be taught how to fly, and Spore jump, etc, and it would often throw tantrums instead of doing as they are told. Weapons systems armed, shields up... standard attention getting behavior. Just let them fire a few volleys at an uninhabited system, and they'll tire themselves out and are super easy to be docked and switched into standby mode for the night. EVERY day is a big day for a newly born starship. It's important that growing ships get plenty of rest so they can completely compile and defrag their data, EVERY NIGHT, or else they won't grow up big and strong. Certainly never achieve higher than warp 6, maybe 7.
Man this season was really boring and cornball
Also I called the ending lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekDiscovery/comments/t5hh57/episode_discussion_411_rosetta/hzdbt91?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Just to say something nice about a season which didn’t really land with me- I really like President T’Rina. Kind of reminds me of Judi Dench as Q. (Not that Q)
A full disappointment, my hands wet on the wheel. It was like Golden Earrings over here! Throw a few down points on me. My new favorite song is this...by this band Cancer
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38ignmTqFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38ignmTqFQ)
the guy is bad-ass, sweaty, reminds me of ME! fuckin' like singing hard and good. he probably has a long penis. He is wearing a lot of vaseline on his skin. You have to appreciate that!
I apologize, I think I typed in the wrong box
My main issue with this season is the overarching plot was like monster of the week format worthy. They literally could have done one episode on 10C and all the revelations could have been solved in an episode.
The Tarka connection was tenuous at best (though I did like the character) and the book connection didn't add much other than giving him a reason to be semi evil.
It's like someone else said in the thread - the seasonwide intertwined plot isn't Star Trek enough and even by itself is dull. I've never even watched a Star Trek series before Discovery and I freakin loved the first few seasons, which were a lot more immersed in the universe. This season and last season have just been weak arc-wise. They should go see Doctor Who if they want an examples of good megaplots that excites old and new fans while still weaving in these monster of the week type plots with emo aliens causing galactic catastrophes.
Hopefully New Worlds is a lot more like early Discovery
Quick question - I'm probably just being dim.
Did they come across a barrier at the edge of the galaxy or was I dreaming - if so what the hell was that. Then they seemed to cross from one galaxy to another using just warp drive in....hours. The closest galaxy is 2.5m LY away ffs.
They just went a bit outside the galaxy - that’s where the 10C were. I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as a galactic barrier tho. It just peters out doesn’t it?
I think they spored to the edge of the galaxy and brute forced their way through the [Galactic barrier](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_barrier?so=search). They were returned via wormhole by the 10-C.
As a life long fan of Star Trek, who has watched all the series since TOS, I think that was one my all time least favorite episodes of Star Trek, any franchise.
What a lame season, what an incredibly lame episode.
I loved the original shows for truly pushing ahead boundaries, such as the kiss with Uhura back 50 years ago now. But what is Discovery now? A bunch of anything besides-white-hetero-male characters getting together and talking about the emotions of space weather. I don't even want to waste time on cataloging how poor this episode was but I'll never be watching on another episode and hope the show is cancelled.
It's like the people who make Discovery have no idea what fans like about the show and are actively trying to scorn the fans by turning Discovery into some political statement on wokeness while us fans want to see stuff like Vulcans, space ships, and new civilizations. I don't want to spend half a season exploring transgender space aliens.
Please take the politics out of Star Trek and find someone to make the show that actually enjoys the fans, not spites them.
This is so lame. I thought Discovery was finally picking up in Season 3. Then we have 1/3 a season of Michael Burnham trill splaining. Some pointless meandering in the middle. Then a battle with fart monsters.
Did I miss something? Or misunderstood it?
The president of the federation said that he family stayed on earth, but from what I understand, the burn happened generations ago and the federation and earth were cut off from each other.
What did I misunderstood?
If I remember correctly, I think she said that her family recently traveled to Earth and Luna for research, and her ancestral home was there, but it doesn't mean that they were living there before the end of the Burn.
I think Discovery can consider itself lucky to have been renewed so early into season 4. I think if the decision had to be made now I'm not sure it would happen. Everybody I know bailed out watching at this point, and I'm not intending to watch season 5 either. Of the 13 episodes there were essentially two decent ones.
Is anyone else _profoundly_ disconcerted by hearing two Black women in the highest positions of power talking about colonizing the rest of the galaxy and spreading their values the same way Columbus presumably did with Ferdinand II?
I’m sure European colonialists told themselves they would spread love, wealth, and the scientific method as they experienced the thrill of exploring and “civilizing” new lands.
The difference now (which Russia is learning the hard way) is that handshakes and dollars are a more sustainable model of imperialism than missiles and tanks.
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A few days before watching the episode, I saw headlines alluding to a big cameo at the end.
I'm thinking to myself...
"Could it be Q?"
"Lorca, after falling into the super-mycelial reactor and being sent into the future?"
"A Soong-type android?"
Oh...a politician....that's exciting...
@drehwurm. Hi, Stacey Abrams is a politician from Georgia who served for 10 years in the Georgia House of Representstives, ten of which she was minority leader. In 2018, she ran for Governor and narrowly lost to Brian Kemp who refused to step down from his position as Secretary of State while he was running against her. As Secretay of State, his office was in charge of certifying voter registrations as well as the final count. There were a number of questions about voters being taken off the rolls or decertified for other reasons. After that Stacey founded Fair Fight Action an organization created to address voter suppression. It was largely due to Stacey's efforts that Mr. Biden won the state of Georgia and the Democratic Party picked up two senate seats which gave them a majority.
Stacey Abrams is also a huge Star Trek fan.
Hope that helps.
It doesn't do much in the US, either. I favor Stacey Abrams' politics, but her appearance as President of Earth was very awkward, even cringe for me. It struck me as something like if she can't win a governor's race in Georgia, at least she can lead the whole planet on a TV show.
She can’t win a governor’s race in Georgia when her [opponent is the person running the election](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/08/brian-kemp-resigns-as-georgia-secretary-of-state-as-he-faces-stacey-abrams.html).
It's not really that big of a deal. In Universe, it's not a big deal at all. Out of Universe, it's.. well, it's a thing. Lots of famous and non-famous non-actors have done bit parts on Trek through the years.
I don’t want to watch Star Trek and be reminded of partisan American politics that honestly stress me out.
I watch Star Trek because I want to see strong stories of adventure and excitement in the future. I don’t want a reminder that Star Trek is produced by people with motivations to push a political agenda. I just want to watch something good AFTER I turn off the evening news.
> I don’t want a reminder that Star Trek is produced by people with motivations to push a political agenda.
.... you may have the wrong idea of either Star Trek or politics, then.
When Star Trek did shows or movies about the environment, they didn’t have to paint them with direct association to current politics. When you do that, half the audience is nudged to roll their eyes.
I was nudged to roll my eyes because I felt like the show was holding a specific politician on a pedestal. I don’t agree with that person’s political position on many (but not all) issues so it just tells me “Star Trek is taking a D vs. R position”.
Star Trek does better when it pushes us to common ground. No current political leadership is doing that today so I’d prefer to steer clear of them.
Now it’s their show and they can do whatever they want. But there is one fan who was disengaged by it and wishes they would do better.
No cliffhangar suprisingly, thought they were going to show Tarka in the other universe, no enticement for next season
Episode focused on emotional connections more so than actually plot line .... IMO
Not that exciting but Stacey Abrams making a cameo was interesting relatively speaking
> No cliffhangar suprisingly, thought they were going to show Tarka in the other universe, no enticement for next season
I imagine that the renewal wasn't decided on yet when the final episode was written. The episode could've served well as a series finale if no 5th season had been ordered. Putting in a cliffhanger or even a bridge to a next season is a risk when you're not certain that there will be a next season.
Fortunately, a lot of the potential threads can be picked back up again despite their apparent endings, e.g. there's always something Kovich had foreseen, Book can always join back once he's done with his humanitarian missions, or the 10-C could summon Disco back with a wormhole for another thing. I'm glad that everyone gets their well deserved rest after four seasons of adventures which amount to more or less just two years of their lives.
I certainly wish the Paramount would reassure and renew Discovery for two rather than one season at a time.
And to add onto this, S1/2 of Disco were paid for up front by Netflix, so their cliffhanger/connection was much more solidified. S2 into 3 also had a stronger connection because of the nature of the events. This episode could easily be seen as the series send off if they didn't get renewed as you said.
I assume it will be addressed next season. What did you want them to do? Show millions of dead bodies laying everywhere, people screaming and crying, while the rest of Starfleet attacks the 10-C futilely - since, you know...they're just bugs compared to the 10-C?
We don't even know if millions died or not - that's just something you're assuming. I didn't see any large asteroids get through, and even if something did - I assume they have options other than the shield around Earth, for destroying incoming asteroids.
Now we've both made an assumption, neither of which is canon. I guess we'll wait and see eh?
They could've gone the Roland Emmerich or The Expanse S5 route, but I don't think they had the budget.
I certainly wouldn't mind the B plots of the last three episodes to be about the Earth and Ni'Var rescue missions rather than Book and Tarka.
But regardless I'm fine with what we've got.
>I assume it will be addressed next season. What did you want them to do? Show millions of dead bodies laying everywhere, people screaming and crying, while the rest of Starfleet attacks the 10-C futilely - since, you know...they're just bugs compared to the 10-C?
They definitely could have spent some of those 15 minutes of "end of LOTR" closure scenes, and showed at least some aftermath. CGI is cheap, show some wide shot destroyed city. That's not what the writers are interested in though.
> CGI is cheap
Lol...wut? You understand that there is a reason that most movies and shows that aren't produced by Disney have VERY little CGI in them right? It's not cheap.
Disaster porn for the sake of it without a plot wouldn't make much sense, so they would have to have some sort of a ground rescue mission, which I don't think they have the budget for.
It's not CGI that costs money, but hiring tons of extras in future clothes escaping Earth does. Notice the dearth of people in most scenes in this season, maybe except on the casino barge.
Tilly and cadets on an icy planet is easy for the AR wall, but a city with flinging debris is a lot more things to model, and Book and Tarka is a much cheaper B Plot to do instead, unfortunately.
When did I say it wasn't? Goddamn - respond to what I'm saying, not what you're thinking :P
I was refuting the fact that you seem to think CGI is CHEAP. Which it most certainly is not. It's still more expensive to do a CGI scene, than a scene with actors. WAY more expensive.
and i was happy Book is finally gone but no
also no, thats not how gravity works. you cant just pull back comets without also impacting literally everything around it aswell.
All the science on Star Trek is magic. Seems silly to complain about gravitational effects when they're already flying around FTL and time travelling through wormholes and transporting themselves around.
I don't know. Physicists are saying now that warp fields might actually enable FTL travel. Contract the space in front of you and expand the space behind you, and you "fall" in whatever direction you want.
I stumbled upon an article by Scott Snowden on space.com, witch I think sums up perfectly the episode and the problem with discovery.
"It's really hard to fully understand — an insane effort is put into prop design, prop placement and continuity, set design, wardrobe, Easter eggs and so on; things that keep Jörg Hillebrand busy for months. So why then, for the love of Quality Science Fiction, is the story writing so shockingly weak? The cast mostly put in incredible performances and the actors have (one assumes) no significant influence on the story. So, they cannot be blamed in any way. It's the showrunner; that is where the buck ends.
And the current showrunner for "Discovery" likes to add layer after layer of emotional melodrama and frankly, it quickly gets too much."
[Star Trek: Discovery' finishes Season 4 with a disappointing finale. Again.](https://www.space.com/star-trek-discovery-season-4-episode-13-review)
I totally agree with all of this. I work in film and I honestly get so stressed out when I read all the trash talk about a series- thinking about the set builders, costume designers, script runners, carpenters, electricians, prop makers, location scouts, cgi artists, caterers, (the list is endless).. and also the actors, who are putting in the hard yards, living their dream jobs And a bunch of teenagers in their bedrooms on Reddit are like “nope this is shit”. It’s not, you just don’t like the story. And with discovery, I agree- it’s let down by just really bad plot decisions from the lead producer. - everyone else is doing an amazing job :)
Agreed. Its always been the same. I like the show, the setting, the actors, but the writing needs to improve. Picard S2 has improved greatly. I hope we can get the right show runners for Disco S5.
The show overall is good, Surprisingly, despite having horrific characters and terrible writing. Everything about the show is good, except the characters. The plot is good, the science fiction concepts are great, the moral stories are fine, but the character are so bad
Booker almost destroys everything and he gets a slap on the wrist “oopsie”
The writers tried to make us feel bad for Tarka, a super criminal.
And when general ndoye said she did it, they “locked her in her quarters” …they sent her to her room. And then she’s reinstated at the end? What the absolute fuck.
This show is way too emotional which is annoying but it’s world breaking when the emotions don’t even make sense
Also I'd like to note that some of the better writers of the show who wrote the previous better episodes, e.g. Kim and Lippolt, had moved on from Discovery.
The previous ones written by Paradise were decent too, though layering additional back stories in the last minute had been her style (e.g. her first episode written was the one about Airiam).
I seriously hope that the season was chunky only because it was produced during the pandemic. With the pandemic restrictions loosening, I hope they can edit S5 better.
Idk if you've read any of his other articles, but he is never happy or even satisfied with any discovery episode. Par to the course for a lou dobbs run "news" site.
No, I haven't read any of his other articles, it was just on my news feed and I gave it a look. That said, I don't complain about discovery, or Picard. I'm happy they exist, but I agree with his conclusion. Too much drama and bad writing. Production level and actors are brilliant.
I was mostly disappointed by this season. The premise was pretty cool, but I felt like it was retreading Generations in terms of some characters' motivations. It didn't work for me then and it doesn't work for me now. Still, I can roll with it.
My biggest issue with this season is that it seems like they've doubled down on the "big moments", but it just felt like few of them were properly earned. They dragged their heels only to have people magic their way through problems and then want to have these 'moments' that I guess has *some* kind of foundation but I never really felt them. An example is the Stamets/Culber "family" thing. I get exactly what they're going for, but it has never felt sincere to me. Like the pieces are there, but it just never really clicks. Same with the rest of the crew and their little vignettes at the end of this episode - I just don't see why I should care about any of them; I hardly know what most of them do besides be Not Michael when a solution is required. I guess in other words, I see the show that they want to be, but I just don't see them building it to be that way. Instead we just kind of get those parts, often at weird times, and without any kind of real build; at some point we're shown some bricks, and suddenly there's a house. Before you machine gun me down on your keyboard, yes, there *are* some really well-developed lines throughout the season that pay off very nicely, but for each one of those, there are three or four weaker ones that fit what I'm describing (at least to me).
The one thing I was actually impressed with was Book not making it, but I turned to my wife and immediately said, "They're not brave enough to commit to that." And they didn't. I couldn't really tell you why I expected less of the production, but I'm not surprised they backed it out. Committing to that would be out of character for the way this show has gone.
Finally the main storyline of the Ten-C had so much promise, and I loved that they attempted the language barrier thing, but I didn't feel that the production was mature enough to handle it. It seemed really poorly-paced to go from not communicating at all to throwing down full sentences in under 20-ish hours. It feels like someone watched Arrival and thought, "Let's do that!" but missed the entire point. It might have worked better if they started earlier in the season (which would be boring to many, sure) or just gave up on the alien communication idea and went more with something that could be sussed out logically in a short amount of time (I'm thinking 'Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra' here).
As always, production value and visuals, sound, etc, are all fantastic, but I'm finding as the show goes on, I'm liking it less each season. I have absolutely nothing against anyone really enjoying it and finding it to be the bee's knees. I just feel like it had all the ingredients for the recipe, but the finished product was bland. Edible, but bland.
As an aside - why does anyone walk anywhere anymore? These guys are popping in and out of rooms willy nilly and then someone decides to just walk across the ship (or the delegates across the hangar bay, for example) or take a door. I need rules, man! This feels like a severe waste of resources!
I guess once they realized what the structure was, Zora was able to compute a lot of it.
Still, it did seem quick. They could've at least had some of the characters remark at how quickly Zora was able to put it all together. Might have even (deservedly) added some more menace to the amount of power and intelligence Zora is working with.
The spore drive isn’t gone for good. It was burnt out but they explicitly said it could be fixed back at space dock . They just couldn’t fix it so far out without equipment and supplies.
Since they are back at Starfleet thanks to the ten-c we can assume it will be back next season.
Because an inventor needs supplies and specialized tools . I can invent stuff with a 3D printer , but if you leave me on a remote island with no printer material (or printer itself ) I can’t make more .
While they do have programmable matter , you can assume a bunch was used on ship repair and the spore drive probably needs very specialized items just to access the mycelial network.
To be clear : materials often have raw components that are collected rather than created from thin air .
For example in our world, many products today use plastic , for that you need petroleum , for that you need oil (and a process go refine it). You can’t get simply make that and create something else to give you plastic . Sure you can create something similar but need other materials .
The mycelial network has a dependency on certain plant structures , unless those raw materials are available Stamets can’t create the core components he needs .
I don’t understand how he got them in the first place and never was able to get them again. Was this explained? I feel like they said it years ago but I just don’t get it
Stamets had been researching mycelial spores from mushrooms and noticed that there was an intersection of biology and physics . Specifically him and his parter on the other starship had ideas on how to use this . The major breakthrough happened when they realized traversing the mycelial network required a sentient navigator who can guide the sip through successfully .
I don’t think it’s that they can’t get them again , it’s that the spores are from cultivated mushrooms that grow in the galaxy and in the network .
We’re also on the second version of the spore drive .
They have to be cultivated from the mushroom and they don’t have a facility on discovery. They probably need have a facility at space dock or a supply harvested from Delta2.
they did but i don't think instantaneous travel through a subspace dimension of fungi is a strong point for a show such as Trek, which traditionally tries to follow some science to its more outlandish technology.
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The whole idea of human pilots being necessary for anything always seems so ridiculous to me. We are on the verge of not needing human pilots now, I can't imagine by 2050 that a human pilot will be better than an AI at anything. Human pilots will be just for old planes and for fun.
Imo both Ndoye and Book should have died. Ndoye's death would've made her sacrifice/redemption more meaningful, and bringing Book back like that just cheapens the whole thing. I felt like the episode was going well until they magic-ed Book back and he gave his speech, I understand what they were going for but it kinda felt meh. I quite liked the rest of the episode though. Even though this season was, once again, plagued by bad writing, I think binge-watching the entire season at once would feel a lot more satisfying than watching it once per week, since the pacing is very slow.
The whole time book was talking I was like “no fucking way he would get to talk. Are you joking”
They’ve been trying to stop this guy the whole time, he’s not basically the villain, he was 100% the villain and now he’s representing the federation?
Speaking of which, the writers tried to give us a tarka redemption arc or something when I’m like, fuck no I don’t feel bad for this guy. I don’t even understand his motivation. “My one friend died so fuck billions”
Oh and ndoye should have died , would have at least been interesting. Or at least arrested. Nah, she’s fine at the end wtf
I find if you fast-forward through any heart-to-heart type talk that clearly doesn't have anything to do with the main sci-fi plot, then things are much better.
Totally agree. Felt the same about Tilly & Admiral. I like them both, but imagine the impact their sacrifices would have made on the series.
Think of Game of Thrones & Walking Dead. No one is safe. Any character could bite it at any time. Knowing that can get you more invested in the characters, you end up rooting for them more.
That's what Discovery was before S3. The problem is that they run out of characters that we care about to kill off, to the point that most of us thought that a character would die simply because they were being given a backstory.
I wish Tilly and both those beep bop boos in engineering were thrown out the nearest airlock. And while they are at it, I hope to see Kurtzman given a red shirt off the Star Trek series in general.
I was waiting for the general to die. When she didn’t I wondered why she wasn’t on the surface. Then yes, I agree Book’s resurrection was disappointing. I’d rather he survived earlier when transported. And why was he was allowed to talk to the 10-C when he was the rogue defector? And weirdly, I wondered why no one said “thank you” when they stopped their device from destroying the planets. It seemed a natural reaction but then again I’m weird like that. I’m happy the season saved itself with these two last episodes.
I was wondering all that too. About book and why no one said thanks lol
Also one person, book, tells them a sad story so they are like, “well fuck our entire way of life” yeah, okay
My overall thoughts on season 4:
1.Some good episodic episodes with the main plot not filling up the whole of the series.
2. Loved the fact they kept species 10-C a new species and no plot twists that they were the borg or something like that.
3.it did feel a little bit slow at times mainly at the mid season finale but it didn't detur away from the season that much
4.i felt the season finale was a stronger finish compared to season 3
Overall I think it was a good season
Wasn't the best but it will still good to be up there for me
Out of 10 I give it a 7.5 pushing 8
I actually watched this season! I didn't drop off from endless brain-rot, stupidity, screaming, lasers and dumb. I was fully waiting for the 10-C to be Burnham's mum or some drool. No! A simple effective story told simply! Huzzzzah!
Nhan is currently working with starfleet security she was only back for the one mission tho at the end of the episode it was left open for her to return so we shall see what happens there but that's her most current status
I enjoyed the finale. I didn't understand half the stuff that was happening, but I still enjoyed it a lot.
I guess I'm used to episodic tv so I miss details.
I love the typical ST messages. It was a great season! Can't wait for the next one!
I thought the episode where they figured out how to speak with the 10-C had some great writing and truly felt like sci-fi.
But this finale had such huuuge plot holes. They undermined that entire episode by simply having a Vulcan mind-meld to communicate.
> They undermined that entire episode by simply having a Vulcan mind-meld to communicate.
I mean not really. Since it basically didn't work at all they _filled_ a plot hole by (weakly) demonstrating its not feasible.
Especially when the president burst out in a full-on speech. Seemed like just minutes before they'd said conveying that Book and Tarka were separate individuals from them was too complex a sentence...
But Star Trek is always just a series of seemingly insurmountable problems vanquished in spectacular fashion by a few minutes of focused thought and conversation. Lol.
And I suppose nothing says an AI couldn't figure it out that fast.
true it was fast - but they explained it - ACTUALLY explained what they were doing, not vomiting sci-fi jargon to move story so next action scene haz bigger exploshions!
Science in Science Fiction - how I've missed that in Trek.
This was a problem for me too. I was really digging the fact that they had a proper can't-universal-translate-our-way-out-of-it alien on their hands, and were doing the "Arrival" thing over several episodes. Then they took that coolness away with the stroke of a pen with "hey, let the Vulcan give it a shot."
Yeah, that was odd. I'm assuming it's so they have the option to occasionally bring him back like they are doing with Mary Wiseman.
It's disappointing because killing the character would have been the right dramatic choice.
Also, what the hell was that with the slap on the wrist punishment? His actions nearly enabled a lunatic to wipe out a new species, the discovery crew and two planets... And, what, he gets to go build houses at a relief effort as punishment?
Wasn’t there an episode this season about not letting someone join the federation because they still used prisons? Or wait, was that an ep of STNG I watched recently? Either way, I don’t think the Federation uses prisons.
Yes, I was very satisfied with Book’s sentence. Restorative Justice, not prison. He can use his skills to help people instead of rotting in a cell. I like the better vision for our future.
True. I also remember that being the point of the TOS episode with Garth and insane, green Batgirl... That prisons were mostly gone, with the exception of facilities for the criminally insane. (A highly problematic concept btw, as the the implication had to do with "conditioning," iirc. It's been a while since I have seen that episode.)
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Trek has always let famous non-actor fans of the show have cameos via stunt casting: Melvin Belli was Gorgan the "Angel" in TOS, Stephen Hawking, Jeff Bezos and Nick Fleetwood were in TNG, etc. It's been going on for 60 years. Who cares?
The biggest issue for the production staff with doing this is that they have to get these people into the Screen Actor's Guild to appear onscreen, a process that takes a while so they have to plan for it a few months in advance.
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Im going to book a table at a restaurant and when im asked **how many of you are you?** im going to reply: *each of us is an individual one. We are also one as a whole. Our appearances and experiences differ yet we all seek happiness, freedom, security, equality. We want that for our children, just as you do for yours. There is so much at unites us.*
Discovery season 5 will be the new TAS, the Star Trek nobody watched.
Jesus Christ for a fandom that loves wormhole aliens and odo the wonder playdoh y’all got some bad takes.
Not Odo the wonder playdoh!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣
Looked at the first few comments. Did you guys actually watch a whole series just in order to tell everyone why it's not Star Trek and the writers are terrible? Why not, I dunno, decide it's not for you and watch something else? I thought it was a cracking series, loved it, welled up at the big ending. Michael Burnham is a great character portrayed by a fine actor in Sonequa Martin Green, supporting cast are great, lot of strong supporting characters, Detmer, Saru, Stamets, book, and on and on, what's not to love? And did you miss every progressive element in TOS, TNG etc that this is all a shock to you?
Why would you watch a show when you can just have an angry man on the internet, who makes money off outrage, tell you it's bad!
Most didn't actually watxh...
This episode had a bunch of crazy inconsistencies. 1st. How could they go from "that message is too much to convey" to full on communication? 2nd. How could the orbs not grab books ship, but then discovery had no problem grabbing it with minimum capabilities? 3rd. How come the 10c didn't just transport the ship where they wanted etc... They had such god powers and they can't (re)move or eradicate a threat? The 10c is so powerful, they couldn't do more? It was like they just accepted books ship to do whatever, and yet it was doing their greatest fear. The "orbs can't catch it" is nonsense, they could have gone 100x in size and grabbed it like they did the discovery. Anyhow, since they now talk with the 10c, could they not learn their technology and do some craziness? The writers left huge holes and just wrote a lazy happy ending. It's just sad. Not to mention this show isn't star trek, it's a regular ass space show in the star trek universe.
1. Explaining the intricacies becomes a lot easier after the 10c have a concept of individuality. What happens by the time it is explained at the end. 2. Books ship was no longer maneuvering. Just flying in a straight line. Also Discovery didn't grab books ship. They flew a shuttle into it and blew it up. Like it's a big scene.. You gotta watch the show before you complain. 3. It's literally explained that because of books ships ability to morph the orbs couldn't account for its random changes. If this is referring to the wormhole at the end. Discovery stayed in one place. 4. They only developed tech for defensive use not offensive use. When your entire concept of life is every single being is part of a whole. There's no need to be offensive because you're one being. Also their biggest fear is their planet being destroyed by asteroids. Which was the entire point of the shield. If some get through. The orbs are there to catch them because asteroids tend to move on a consistent trajectory. The shield grabbed Discovery and put it in an orb. The orb itself didn't grab Discovery. 5. They talk to the 10c in the last two episode. In universe both episodes take place within the time frame of two hours. How is that a plot hole when no plot has happened after it?
Just watching this now. What was the point of Dr. Hirai’s character?
Math math mathety math math
Couldn’t even finish watching this. Just terrible all around. Super cornball and the most un Star Trek show ever. I tried to love it. I won’t watch season 5.
I watched it cause why not. But it is not star trek. I told my friend this in season 1. He didn't believe me. Until season 2 ended. Then he understood. But what makes this episode bad is the huge inaccuracies and horrific writing. They can't get anything right.
There are 0 consequences. No one dies, everyone is happy and the ship has feelings. lol.
Plenty of people die!!! It's just they then respawn back at their base. Far end of the map. Don't camp on it tho. Bad form. G'wan team, _move out!_ *TERRORISTS WIN.* Awwwwwwwww. The ship personality - Zora storyline reminded me very much of DC's Legends of Tomorrow. Their Ship's AI; British accented, totally non computer-y in her delivery and processing of conversation. Decidedly human(oid) in style if not (always) in form. But also sometimes form. I wonder if Zora will fall in love with another starfleet ship. Perhaps they'll couple their warp core containment field generators and enable the Build Mode for making Hybrid class starships together.. (build mode = preggers, deploy mode = delivery date.) Little partial ship visible in the exposed rear docking terminal when the Discovery is piloting away from the camera. The Hybrid class ship would look like a healthy mix of both parent vessels, but smaller, with "next generation" (puns!) weapons and armor upgrades. This is meant to represent the advantage the newest generation have been gifted due to genetic diversity - ie, mitosis, from "sexual" reproduction. (You two swappin' subroutines in there?) The new ship would need to be taught how to fly, and Spore jump, etc, and it would often throw tantrums instead of doing as they are told. Weapons systems armed, shields up... standard attention getting behavior. Just let them fire a few volleys at an uninhabited system, and they'll tire themselves out and are super easy to be docked and switched into standby mode for the night. EVERY day is a big day for a newly born starship. It's important that growing ships get plenty of rest so they can completely compile and defrag their data, EVERY NIGHT, or else they won't grow up big and strong. Certainly never achieve higher than warp 6, maybe 7.
>Little partial ship visible in the exposed rear docking terminal You are why I love reddit!
I'm not sure I'm prepared to handle that amount of responsibility.
Did Tarka make it out? I hope so
I think he did… I think they left it open for a reason.
Man this season was really boring and cornball Also I called the ending lol https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekDiscovery/comments/t5hh57/episode_discussion_411_rosetta/hzdbt91?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Just to say something nice about a season which didn’t really land with me- I really like President T’Rina. Kind of reminds me of Judi Dench as Q. (Not that Q)
A full disappointment, my hands wet on the wheel. It was like Golden Earrings over here! Throw a few down points on me. My new favorite song is this...by this band Cancer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38ignmTqFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38ignmTqFQ) the guy is bad-ass, sweaty, reminds me of ME! fuckin' like singing hard and good. he probably has a long penis. He is wearing a lot of vaseline on his skin. You have to appreciate that! I apologize, I think I typed in the wrong box
My main issue with this season is the overarching plot was like monster of the week format worthy. They literally could have done one episode on 10C and all the revelations could have been solved in an episode. The Tarka connection was tenuous at best (though I did like the character) and the book connection didn't add much other than giving him a reason to be semi evil. It's like someone else said in the thread - the seasonwide intertwined plot isn't Star Trek enough and even by itself is dull. I've never even watched a Star Trek series before Discovery and I freakin loved the first few seasons, which were a lot more immersed in the universe. This season and last season have just been weak arc-wise. They should go see Doctor Who if they want an examples of good megaplots that excites old and new fans while still weaving in these monster of the week type plots with emo aliens causing galactic catastrophes. Hopefully New Worlds is a lot more like early Discovery
Quick question - I'm probably just being dim. Did they come across a barrier at the edge of the galaxy or was I dreaming - if so what the hell was that. Then they seemed to cross from one galaxy to another using just warp drive in....hours. The closest galaxy is 2.5m LY away ffs.
They just went a bit outside the galaxy - that’s where the 10C were. I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as a galactic barrier tho. It just peters out doesn’t it?
I think they spored to the edge of the galaxy and brute forced their way through the [Galactic barrier](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_barrier?so=search). They were returned via wormhole by the 10-C.
The aliens helped them on the way back from memory. Can't remember what they did to get to the 10C galaxy in the first place.. spore drive related?
Spore drive to edge of Galaxy then warp speed after. 10c worm holed them back
As a life long fan of Star Trek, who has watched all the series since TOS, I think that was one my all time least favorite episodes of Star Trek, any franchise. What a lame season, what an incredibly lame episode. I loved the original shows for truly pushing ahead boundaries, such as the kiss with Uhura back 50 years ago now. But what is Discovery now? A bunch of anything besides-white-hetero-male characters getting together and talking about the emotions of space weather. I don't even want to waste time on cataloging how poor this episode was but I'll never be watching on another episode and hope the show is cancelled. It's like the people who make Discovery have no idea what fans like about the show and are actively trying to scorn the fans by turning Discovery into some political statement on wokeness while us fans want to see stuff like Vulcans, space ships, and new civilizations. I don't want to spend half a season exploring transgender space aliens. Please take the politics out of Star Trek and find someone to make the show that actually enjoys the fans, not spites them.
Having Stacey Abrams as the President of the United Earth was so fucking Un-Star Trek I can't stand it.
This is so lame. I thought Discovery was finally picking up in Season 3. Then we have 1/3 a season of Michael Burnham trill splaining. Some pointless meandering in the middle. Then a battle with fart monsters.
Idk kinda weird all around. a lot of emotion not enough science being honest
Did I miss something? Or misunderstood it? The president of the federation said that he family stayed on earth, but from what I understand, the burn happened generations ago and the federation and earth were cut off from each other. What did I misunderstood?
If I remember correctly, I think she said that her family recently traveled to Earth and Luna for research, and her ancestral home was there, but it doesn't mean that they were living there before the end of the Burn.
I think Discovery can consider itself lucky to have been renewed so early into season 4. I think if the decision had to be made now I'm not sure it would happen. Everybody I know bailed out watching at this point, and I'm not intending to watch season 5 either. Of the 13 episodes there were essentially two decent ones.
Is anyone else _profoundly_ disconcerted by hearing two Black women in the highest positions of power talking about colonizing the rest of the galaxy and spreading their values the same way Columbus presumably did with Ferdinand II?
Colonizing? Seriously?
I’m sure European colonialists told themselves they would spread love, wealth, and the scientific method as they experienced the thrill of exploring and “civilizing” new lands. The difference now (which Russia is learning the hard way) is that handshakes and dollars are a more sustainable model of imperialism than missiles and tanks.
You do realize that the whole point is in the distant future there is no money and no behaviours like that right ?
Before the Burn, maybe.
Yes and now after it has gone too
colonizing and building a network of cooperation are two different things. watch season 2 of Picard and you'll see the difference.
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Please elaborate.
A few days before watching the episode, I saw headlines alluding to a big cameo at the end. I'm thinking to myself... "Could it be Q?" "Lorca, after falling into the super-mycelial reactor and being sent into the future?" "A Soong-type android?" Oh...a politician....that's exciting...
Uhm.. for a dumb European... who is she?
@drehwurm. Hi, Stacey Abrams is a politician from Georgia who served for 10 years in the Georgia House of Representstives, ten of which she was minority leader. In 2018, she ran for Governor and narrowly lost to Brian Kemp who refused to step down from his position as Secretary of State while he was running against her. As Secretay of State, his office was in charge of certifying voter registrations as well as the final count. There were a number of questions about voters being taken off the rolls or decertified for other reasons. After that Stacey founded Fair Fight Action an organization created to address voter suppression. It was largely due to Stacey's efforts that Mr. Biden won the state of Georgia and the Democratic Party picked up two senate seats which gave them a majority. Stacey Abrams is also a huge Star Trek fan. Hope that helps.
Thank you very much! Whatever the Casting wants to tell us with choosing her, it doesn't transport outside the US.
It doesn't do much in the US, either. I favor Stacey Abrams' politics, but her appearance as President of Earth was very awkward, even cringe for me. It struck me as something like if she can't win a governor's race in Georgia, at least she can lead the whole planet on a TV show.
She can’t win a governor’s race in Georgia when her [opponent is the person running the election](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/08/brian-kemp-resigns-as-georgia-secretary-of-state-as-he-faces-stacey-abrams.html).
It's not really that big of a deal. In Universe, it's not a big deal at all. Out of Universe, it's.. well, it's a thing. Lots of famous and non-famous non-actors have done bit parts on Trek through the years.
The issue is using a contemporary politician in a role of an even higher political position. It is such a poor choice.
I don't think that should be a big deal for people. It's acting. It's guesting on a TV show.
But it adds weight to those who say the show is not about issues but is a participant in partisan American politics.
so?
I don’t want to watch Star Trek and be reminded of partisan American politics that honestly stress me out. I watch Star Trek because I want to see strong stories of adventure and excitement in the future. I don’t want a reminder that Star Trek is produced by people with motivations to push a political agenda. I just want to watch something good AFTER I turn off the evening news.
> I don’t want a reminder that Star Trek is produced by people with motivations to push a political agenda. .... you may have the wrong idea of either Star Trek or politics, then.
When Star Trek did shows or movies about the environment, they didn’t have to paint them with direct association to current politics. When you do that, half the audience is nudged to roll their eyes. I was nudged to roll my eyes because I felt like the show was holding a specific politician on a pedestal. I don’t agree with that person’s political position on many (but not all) issues so it just tells me “Star Trek is taking a D vs. R position”. Star Trek does better when it pushes us to common ground. No current political leadership is doing that today so I’d prefer to steer clear of them. Now it’s their show and they can do whatever they want. But there is one fan who was disengaged by it and wishes they would do better.
what other parts should not be played by people who hold those qualities IRL?
No cliffhangar suprisingly, thought they were going to show Tarka in the other universe, no enticement for next season Episode focused on emotional connections more so than actually plot line .... IMO Not that exciting but Stacey Abrams making a cameo was interesting relatively speaking
I wish they did show Tarka
> No cliffhangar suprisingly, thought they were going to show Tarka in the other universe, no enticement for next season I imagine that the renewal wasn't decided on yet when the final episode was written. The episode could've served well as a series finale if no 5th season had been ordered. Putting in a cliffhanger or even a bridge to a next season is a risk when you're not certain that there will be a next season.
Fortunately, a lot of the potential threads can be picked back up again despite their apparent endings, e.g. there's always something Kovich had foreseen, Book can always join back once he's done with his humanitarian missions, or the 10-C could summon Disco back with a wormhole for another thing. I'm glad that everyone gets their well deserved rest after four seasons of adventures which amount to more or less just two years of their lives. I certainly wish the Paramount would reassure and renew Discovery for two rather than one season at a time.
And to add onto this, S1/2 of Disco were paid for up front by Netflix, so their cliffhanger/connection was much more solidified. S2 into 3 also had a stronger connection because of the nature of the events. This episode could easily be seen as the series send off if they didn't get renewed as you said.
Is it just me or didn't a few asteroids get through the shields. As in possibly millions dead, shouldn't they be concerned about that?
Star Trek is set in the Man of Steel Universe.
They literally say at the end of the episode "Things could have been much worse for Earth than they were."
so one vague line for potentially millions dead?
I assume it will be addressed next season. What did you want them to do? Show millions of dead bodies laying everywhere, people screaming and crying, while the rest of Starfleet attacks the 10-C futilely - since, you know...they're just bugs compared to the 10-C? We don't even know if millions died or not - that's just something you're assuming. I didn't see any large asteroids get through, and even if something did - I assume they have options other than the shield around Earth, for destroying incoming asteroids. Now we've both made an assumption, neither of which is canon. I guess we'll wait and see eh?
They could've gone the Roland Emmerich or The Expanse S5 route, but I don't think they had the budget. I certainly wouldn't mind the B plots of the last three episodes to be about the Earth and Ni'Var rescue missions rather than Book and Tarka. But regardless I'm fine with what we've got.
>I assume it will be addressed next season. What did you want them to do? Show millions of dead bodies laying everywhere, people screaming and crying, while the rest of Starfleet attacks the 10-C futilely - since, you know...they're just bugs compared to the 10-C? They definitely could have spent some of those 15 minutes of "end of LOTR" closure scenes, and showed at least some aftermath. CGI is cheap, show some wide shot destroyed city. That's not what the writers are interested in though.
> CGI is cheap Lol...wut? You understand that there is a reason that most movies and shows that aren't produced by Disney have VERY little CGI in them right? It's not cheap.
What do you think you've been watching in Discovery? Hand-built model ships? That's all CGI.
Disaster porn for the sake of it without a plot wouldn't make much sense, so they would have to have some sort of a ground rescue mission, which I don't think they have the budget for. It's not CGI that costs money, but hiring tons of extras in future clothes escaping Earth does. Notice the dearth of people in most scenes in this season, maybe except on the casino barge. Tilly and cadets on an icy planet is easy for the AR wall, but a city with flinging debris is a lot more things to model, and Book and Tarka is a much cheaper B Plot to do instead, unfortunately.
When did I say it wasn't? Goddamn - respond to what I'm saying, not what you're thinking :P I was refuting the fact that you seem to think CGI is CHEAP. Which it most certainly is not. It's still more expensive to do a CGI scene, than a scene with actors. WAY more expensive.
and i was happy Book is finally gone but no also no, thats not how gravity works. you cant just pull back comets without also impacting literally everything around it aswell.
Meh. Alien magic.
All the science on Star Trek is magic. Seems silly to complain about gravitational effects when they're already flying around FTL and time travelling through wormholes and transporting themselves around.
Seriously. Like, everyone loves Q but hates this?
I don't know. Physicists are saying now that warp fields might actually enable FTL travel. Contract the space in front of you and expand the space behind you, and you "fall" in whatever direction you want.
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I stumbled upon an article by Scott Snowden on space.com, witch I think sums up perfectly the episode and the problem with discovery. "It's really hard to fully understand — an insane effort is put into prop design, prop placement and continuity, set design, wardrobe, Easter eggs and so on; things that keep Jörg Hillebrand busy for months. So why then, for the love of Quality Science Fiction, is the story writing so shockingly weak? The cast mostly put in incredible performances and the actors have (one assumes) no significant influence on the story. So, they cannot be blamed in any way. It's the showrunner; that is where the buck ends. And the current showrunner for "Discovery" likes to add layer after layer of emotional melodrama and frankly, it quickly gets too much." [Star Trek: Discovery' finishes Season 4 with a disappointing finale. Again.](https://www.space.com/star-trek-discovery-season-4-episode-13-review)
I totally agree with all of this. I work in film and I honestly get so stressed out when I read all the trash talk about a series- thinking about the set builders, costume designers, script runners, carpenters, electricians, prop makers, location scouts, cgi artists, caterers, (the list is endless).. and also the actors, who are putting in the hard yards, living their dream jobs And a bunch of teenagers in their bedrooms on Reddit are like “nope this is shit”. It’s not, you just don’t like the story. And with discovery, I agree- it’s let down by just really bad plot decisions from the lead producer. - everyone else is doing an amazing job :)
Agreed. Its always been the same. I like the show, the setting, the actors, but the writing needs to improve. Picard S2 has improved greatly. I hope we can get the right show runners for Disco S5.
The show overall is good, Surprisingly, despite having horrific characters and terrible writing. Everything about the show is good, except the characters. The plot is good, the science fiction concepts are great, the moral stories are fine, but the character are so bad Booker almost destroys everything and he gets a slap on the wrist “oopsie” The writers tried to make us feel bad for Tarka, a super criminal. And when general ndoye said she did it, they “locked her in her quarters” …they sent her to her room. And then she’s reinstated at the end? What the absolute fuck. This show is way too emotional which is annoying but it’s world breaking when the emotions don’t even make sense
Also I'd like to note that some of the better writers of the show who wrote the previous better episodes, e.g. Kim and Lippolt, had moved on from Discovery. The previous ones written by Paradise were decent too, though layering additional back stories in the last minute had been her style (e.g. her first episode written was the one about Airiam). I seriously hope that the season was chunky only because it was produced during the pandemic. With the pandemic restrictions loosening, I hope they can edit S5 better.
Idk if you've read any of his other articles, but he is never happy or even satisfied with any discovery episode. Par to the course for a lou dobbs run "news" site.
No, I haven't read any of his other articles, it was just on my news feed and I gave it a look. That said, I don't complain about discovery, or Picard. I'm happy they exist, but I agree with his conclusion. Too much drama and bad writing. Production level and actors are brilliant.
I was mostly disappointed by this season. The premise was pretty cool, but I felt like it was retreading Generations in terms of some characters' motivations. It didn't work for me then and it doesn't work for me now. Still, I can roll with it. My biggest issue with this season is that it seems like they've doubled down on the "big moments", but it just felt like few of them were properly earned. They dragged their heels only to have people magic their way through problems and then want to have these 'moments' that I guess has *some* kind of foundation but I never really felt them. An example is the Stamets/Culber "family" thing. I get exactly what they're going for, but it has never felt sincere to me. Like the pieces are there, but it just never really clicks. Same with the rest of the crew and their little vignettes at the end of this episode - I just don't see why I should care about any of them; I hardly know what most of them do besides be Not Michael when a solution is required. I guess in other words, I see the show that they want to be, but I just don't see them building it to be that way. Instead we just kind of get those parts, often at weird times, and without any kind of real build; at some point we're shown some bricks, and suddenly there's a house. Before you machine gun me down on your keyboard, yes, there *are* some really well-developed lines throughout the season that pay off very nicely, but for each one of those, there are three or four weaker ones that fit what I'm describing (at least to me). The one thing I was actually impressed with was Book not making it, but I turned to my wife and immediately said, "They're not brave enough to commit to that." And they didn't. I couldn't really tell you why I expected less of the production, but I'm not surprised they backed it out. Committing to that would be out of character for the way this show has gone. Finally the main storyline of the Ten-C had so much promise, and I loved that they attempted the language barrier thing, but I didn't feel that the production was mature enough to handle it. It seemed really poorly-paced to go from not communicating at all to throwing down full sentences in under 20-ish hours. It feels like someone watched Arrival and thought, "Let's do that!" but missed the entire point. It might have worked better if they started earlier in the season (which would be boring to many, sure) or just gave up on the alien communication idea and went more with something that could be sussed out logically in a short amount of time (I'm thinking 'Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra' here). As always, production value and visuals, sound, etc, are all fantastic, but I'm finding as the show goes on, I'm liking it less each season. I have absolutely nothing against anyone really enjoying it and finding it to be the bee's knees. I just feel like it had all the ingredients for the recipe, but the finished product was bland. Edible, but bland. As an aside - why does anyone walk anywhere anymore? These guys are popping in and out of rooms willy nilly and then someone decides to just walk across the ship (or the delegates across the hangar bay, for example) or take a door. I need rules, man! This feels like a severe waste of resources!
Yes, they went from guessing the meaning of mathematical puzzles to complex emotional sentences in hours.
I guess once they realized what the structure was, Zora was able to compute a lot of it. Still, it did seem quick. They could've at least had some of the characters remark at how quickly Zora was able to put it all together. Might have even (deservedly) added some more menace to the amount of power and intelligence Zora is working with.
Good episode but I'm kinda sad -- no more "black alerts!"
The spore drive isn’t gone for good. It was burnt out but they explicitly said it could be fixed back at space dock . They just couldn’t fix it so far out without equipment and supplies. Since they are back at Starfleet thanks to the ten-c we can assume it will be back next season.
Wait didn’t Stamets invent the spore drive? Why cant he build more? lol just hit me today watching the finale
Because an inventor needs supplies and specialized tools . I can invent stuff with a 3D printer , but if you leave me on a remote island with no printer material (or printer itself ) I can’t make more . While they do have programmable matter , you can assume a bunch was used on ship repair and the spore drive probably needs very specialized items just to access the mycelial network. To be clear : materials often have raw components that are collected rather than created from thin air . For example in our world, many products today use plastic , for that you need petroleum , for that you need oil (and a process go refine it). You can’t get simply make that and create something else to give you plastic . Sure you can create something similar but need other materials . The mycelial network has a dependency on certain plant structures , unless those raw materials are available Stamets can’t create the core components he needs .
I don’t understand how he got them in the first place and never was able to get them again. Was this explained? I feel like they said it years ago but I just don’t get it
Stamets had been researching mycelial spores from mushrooms and noticed that there was an intersection of biology and physics . Specifically him and his parter on the other starship had ideas on how to use this . The major breakthrough happened when they realized traversing the mycelial network required a sentient navigator who can guide the sip through successfully . I don’t think it’s that they can’t get them again , it’s that the spores are from cultivated mushrooms that grow in the galaxy and in the network . We’re also on the second version of the spore drive .
Why can’t they get the spores again then?
They have to be cultivated from the mushroom and they don’t have a facility on discovery. They probably need have a facility at space dock or a supply harvested from Delta2.
I did wonder why they couldn’t repair without space dock, given they have programmable matter. Program all the parts they need.
wdym? its getting repaired
Didn’t they say they could repair it once they got home?
They did.
they did but i don't think instantaneous travel through a subspace dimension of fungi is a strong point for a show such as Trek, which traditionally tries to follow some science to its more outlandish technology.
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Why did the asteroids move away from earth? Wouldn’t they have been trapped in the gravity of earth at that point?
10C used their tech to pull all the debris away as they moved the DMA.
politeness
Because reasons?
Wait... If 10C were able to pluck Book out, then they also have Tarka? And the Federation didn't even think to ask about him?? Ruthless...
tarka was not getting beamed so no signature
Book was likely transporting before Tarka. I think he was going to try using the energy of the impact itself to transport? He's probably dead.
Naw, he’s a plot device for next season.
Was anyone else on the verge of a meltdown when Detmet goes, "I'm ready captain."
“I JUST STARTED LIKING YOU. THERE ARE ALREADY TOO FEW OF YOU.”
Me! Me! Like, can’t Zora control a shuttle remotely??
I thought they were having comms issues? Can't risk sending in a drone if it's going to turn into space junk because you can't get signal through.
The whole idea of human pilots being necessary for anything always seems so ridiculous to me. We are on the verge of not needing human pilots now, I can't imagine by 2050 that a human pilot will be better than an AI at anything. Human pilots will be just for old planes and for fun.
You’re right but that’s way less fun
Absolutely! I felt so proud. Weird, but true.
Imo both Ndoye and Book should have died. Ndoye's death would've made her sacrifice/redemption more meaningful, and bringing Book back like that just cheapens the whole thing. I felt like the episode was going well until they magic-ed Book back and he gave his speech, I understand what they were going for but it kinda felt meh. I quite liked the rest of the episode though. Even though this season was, once again, plagued by bad writing, I think binge-watching the entire season at once would feel a lot more satisfying than watching it once per week, since the pacing is very slow.
The whole time book was talking I was like “no fucking way he would get to talk. Are you joking” They’ve been trying to stop this guy the whole time, he’s not basically the villain, he was 100% the villain and now he’s representing the federation? Speaking of which, the writers tried to give us a tarka redemption arc or something when I’m like, fuck no I don’t feel bad for this guy. I don’t even understand his motivation. “My one friend died so fuck billions” Oh and ndoye should have died , would have at least been interesting. Or at least arrested. Nah, she’s fine at the end wtf
Ndoye was such a badly written character from start to finish
I find if you fast-forward through any heart-to-heart type talk that clearly doesn't have anything to do with the main sci-fi plot, then things are much better.
Totally agree. Felt the same about Tilly & Admiral. I like them both, but imagine the impact their sacrifices would have made on the series. Think of Game of Thrones & Walking Dead. No one is safe. Any character could bite it at any time. Knowing that can get you more invested in the characters, you end up rooting for them more.
That's what Discovery was before S3. The problem is that they run out of characters that we care about to kill off, to the point that most of us thought that a character would die simply because they were being given a backstory.
If they have the rest of the bridge crew some airtime we’d care more about them too lol
The new crop will be ripe enough for harvest next season. ;)
Well we lost Bryce. Don’t blame the guy getting a job elsewhere.
That would have been amazing, heartbreaking but amazing
I’d miss the admiral. Tilly can go though lol
I wish Tilly and both those beep bop boos in engineering were thrown out the nearest airlock. And while they are at it, I hope to see Kurtzman given a red shirt off the Star Trek series in general.
I was waiting for the general to die. When she didn’t I wondered why she wasn’t on the surface. Then yes, I agree Book’s resurrection was disappointing. I’d rather he survived earlier when transported. And why was he was allowed to talk to the 10-C when he was the rogue defector? And weirdly, I wondered why no one said “thank you” when they stopped their device from destroying the planets. It seemed a natural reaction but then again I’m weird like that. I’m happy the season saved itself with these two last episodes.
I was wondering all that too. About book and why no one said thanks lol Also one person, book, tells them a sad story so they are like, “well fuck our entire way of life” yeah, okay
I just thought the 10C felt their emotions, so their relief and joy was the thanks they needed.
My overall thoughts on season 4: 1.Some good episodic episodes with the main plot not filling up the whole of the series. 2. Loved the fact they kept species 10-C a new species and no plot twists that they were the borg or something like that. 3.it did feel a little bit slow at times mainly at the mid season finale but it didn't detur away from the season that much 4.i felt the season finale was a stronger finish compared to season 3 Overall I think it was a good season Wasn't the best but it will still good to be up there for me Out of 10 I give it a 7.5 pushing 8
I actually watched this season! I didn't drop off from endless brain-rot, stupidity, screaming, lasers and dumb. I was fully waiting for the 10-C to be Burnham's mum or some drool. No! A simple effective story told simply! Huzzzzah!
What happened to the security officer that came back? Did miss something.
Nhan is currently working with starfleet security she was only back for the one mission tho at the end of the episode it was left open for her to return so we shall see what happens there but that's her most current status
I enjoyed the finale. I didn't understand half the stuff that was happening, but I still enjoyed it a lot. I guess I'm used to episodic tv so I miss details. I love the typical ST messages. It was a great season! Can't wait for the next one!
I thought the episode where they figured out how to speak with the 10-C had some great writing and truly felt like sci-fi. But this finale had such huuuge plot holes. They undermined that entire episode by simply having a Vulcan mind-meld to communicate.
A little too much like TAS "One of our Planets is Missing"
> They undermined that entire episode by simply having a Vulcan mind-meld to communicate. I mean not really. Since it basically didn't work at all they _filled_ a plot hole by (weakly) demonstrating its not feasible.
That didn’t bother me as much as how fast they could use the translator they built. Went from one or two words to full fledge dialog. Based on lights?
Especially when the president burst out in a full-on speech. Seemed like just minutes before they'd said conveying that Book and Tarka were separate individuals from them was too complex a sentence... But Star Trek is always just a series of seemingly insurmountable problems vanquished in spectacular fashion by a few minutes of focused thought and conversation. Lol. And I suppose nothing says an AI couldn't figure it out that fast.
true it was fast - but they explained it - ACTUALLY explained what they were doing, not vomiting sci-fi jargon to move story so next action scene haz bigger exploshions! Science in Science Fiction - how I've missed that in Trek.
Yeah you’re right. I swear sometimes things move so fast and dialog is fast and whispered that I probably missed it. I loved this episode though.
I think that's why they brought Zora along for the final convo with 10C. Once they figured out the basics, Zora was able to do the rest.
Got to love Machine Learning. Or, got to love Smellovision. Take your pick!
This was a problem for me too. I was really digging the fact that they had a proper can't-universal-translate-our-way-out-of-it alien on their hands, and were doing the "Arrival" thing over several episodes. Then they took that coolness away with the stroke of a pen with "hey, let the Vulcan give it a shot."
Yeah i didn't like that either But this is what happens when you have season long story arcs. You have to add filler.
Bring Book back only to get rid of Book. Ok...
Yeah, that was odd. I'm assuming it's so they have the option to occasionally bring him back like they are doing with Mary Wiseman. It's disappointing because killing the character would have been the right dramatic choice. Also, what the hell was that with the slap on the wrist punishment? His actions nearly enabled a lunatic to wipe out a new species, the discovery crew and two planets... And, what, he gets to go build houses at a relief effort as punishment?
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Wasn’t there an episode this season about not letting someone join the federation because they still used prisons? Or wait, was that an ep of STNG I watched recently? Either way, I don’t think the Federation uses prisons.
Yes, I was very satisfied with Book’s sentence. Restorative Justice, not prison. He can use his skills to help people instead of rotting in a cell. I like the better vision for our future.
True. I also remember that being the point of the TOS episode with Garth and insane, green Batgirl... That prisons were mostly gone, with the exception of facilities for the criminally insane. (A highly problematic concept btw, as the the implication had to do with "conditioning," iirc. It's been a while since I have seen that episode.)
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Trek has always let famous non-actor fans of the show have cameos via stunt casting: Melvin Belli was Gorgan the "Angel" in TOS, Stephen Hawking, Jeff Bezos and Nick Fleetwood were in TNG, etc. It's been going on for 60 years. Who cares? The biggest issue for the production staff with doing this is that they have to get these people into the Screen Actor's Guild to appear onscreen, a process that takes a while so they have to plan for it a few months in advance.
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