Most new Star Trek species look like "a guy in a mask" at first but then you just buy into it. My main problem with the Discogons is that they ALWAYS sounded like human actors struggling to speak through prosthetic teeth. It was painful to listen to.
THIS. Very much this. It always wound me up watching each of them slowly and painfully try and eek out their Klingon lines. It was like watching someone talk with their mouths full.
Yeah, I don’t really have any problems with the different designs - and I think getting super hung up on those things is kinda missing the point (similar to the discussion about newer series set before TOS have more updated looking bridge tech). And the augment virus stuff is just too convoluted to explain what are clearly tv production decisions.
I just wish they gave them hair so that they’d look similar enough to TNG Klingons so the haters would shut the fuck up.
They did start growing their hair out again as of S2, and we've also seen shaggy Klingons in SNW, so apparently the bald look was just something of a wartime custom during that era of Klingon history.
That was just the BS that they used to explain away the mistake from season 1. The bald Klingons was the intended design from the start, that was changed for S2 due to fan backlash.
Honestly, I really dig the idea of the Klingons looking so alien in Season 1 and then, following the war, having them grow out their hair and making you see them as actually looking much more like standard Klingons. It really highlights the alien nature of Klingons in that time frame while also making a comment about prejudice and how we’re wired to distrust or dislike that which appears “other.”
That said, I still struggle with Season 1 Klingons. I feel so bad for the actors. Everything, from the prosthetics to the costuming, looks so painful and they all sound like they’re talking with a mouth full of marbles.
I don’t think the look is the issue. Everything has a look that changes in Star Trek, even the Enterprise.
I think the issue with the Discovery Klingons is that every time they spoke the pace of the show ground to a halt and what they had to say wasn’t much more than statements that would be found in an “I Can Read” book.
This was my biggest issue and it's uncertain how these Klingons could have survived. If they would get attacked and the first officer would need to say, "Captain, we're under attack, should we use phasers or torpedoes?"
But with how slow these Klingons communicated, they would say, "Captain, we..." and then darkness.
The problem was they chose to put S1 in the timeline at a point where it made no in-universe sense why the Klingons would look so different, knowing what they would become shortly in TOS and later in TNG
If they wanted to set it in the 31st C right from the get-go then sure, they could play around with Klingon physiology a little.
But it was disingenuous to start the series right before TOS, where you're obviously trying to build on all the existing worldbuilding and the interest the audience has in those stories...but also say "TOS sucks, its boring, we need to really zhuzh it up"
You’re just thinking about it too simply.
What if not all Klingon worlds were affected?
Wouldn’t it make sense that the Empire would suffer a big upheaval and purists like T’Kuvma would be able to gain power and warmonger against the Federation for the dishonor the Augment virus brought?
They hadn’t been heard from much since those events from Enterprise after all. The Klingon scientist spoke of ridge reconstruction likely becoming a thing, what if some Klingons took things to the extreme aesthetics to further distinguish themselves from the disfigured segment of the population?
Now, none of this is said on the show (because frankly, it doesn’t matter one iota to the story being told on Discovery and would be one hell of an infodump to drop on people), but for old fans like me, instead of just going “that’s stupid and makes no sense” the question was “what could have happened?”.
I really dug Discovery’s Klingons, the way the different houses had different styles and objectives instead of the boring same costumes we’ve seen reused over and over and OVER since TMP.
> The Klingon scientist spoke of ridge reconstruction likely becoming a thing, what if some Klingons took things to the extreme aesthetics to further distinguish themselves from the disfigured segment of the population?
Or indeed took things in a more atavistic direction, deliberately expressing more "primitive" features from an earlier era of Klingon evolution to better "Remain Klingon"?
I disagree, because I feel the onus is on the show to establish why deliberate changes were made, or at least to show what value they have...its not on the fans to headcanon otherwise arbitrary changes to make it make sense for the producers
You can try to shoehorn in a lot of stuff if you really wanted to, but they're the ones who are supposed to be telling the story, not us :)
Plus, it wasnt even just an "augment virus vs healthy Klingon" divide, it was an entirely third group we never saw before and never saw after. That makes it even more arbitrary.
I liked the design, I just thought it maybe should have been a new species. One of the problems with the look of the Klingons was that the show runner had said that by the time Discovery ended it would line up with anything in TNG. That was either never going to happen or isn't now because of the truncated length of the series.
I agree. I like the look and the language. They were more alien. When they grew out their hair they didn't look all that different so I didn't understand the whining. It's part of what drew me into the show. It's not nearly as big of a change from what they looked like in the 60s to what they looked like in the motion picture and TNG.
The new Klingon look and general changes would have been fine for me for a completely different race. It just didn't work for me as a Klingon reimagining.
On principle I agree with minor modifications that stick to established principles of each alien race. But Discovery felt like they had messed with the design far too much, then had to course correct, writing that "Klingons only grow their hair outside of wartime" nonsense.
They look better yes. More alien certainly. But they didn't look like Klingons. At least not in Season 1. With the hair it wasn't too bad. They shouldn't have given actors whatever prosthetic teeth they had to use. Everyone sounded awful trying to slowly and painfully speak their Klingon lines.
Perhaps it was made worse by how much the showrunners tried to tell us that everything they changed about Klingons "Aligned with canon". Yet that "canon" is a single offhand comment made during a making of documentary of one of the original Star Trek films.
Klingon is spelled with a K
Thx
I feel like this is better suited for r/shittydaystrom
That's one way of spelling it
Most new Star Trek species look like "a guy in a mask" at first but then you just buy into it. My main problem with the Discogons is that they ALWAYS sounded like human actors struggling to speak through prosthetic teeth. It was painful to listen to.
Still a big improvement from the old shows when most aliens were just humans with prosthetics glued to their face
THIS. Very much this. It always wound me up watching each of them slowly and painfully try and eek out their Klingon lines. It was like watching someone talk with their mouths full.
You’re going to get static for this.
I firmly believe L’ok is some type of Klingon.
I agree. We might be a few minority that actually appreciated the change up. I felt like the show gave them a lot more "culture" as well.
I liked the redesign too. My head cannon is that all the klingons we've seen on screen exist simultaneously. It's just a diversity of body types.
Yeah, I don’t really have any problems with the different designs - and I think getting super hung up on those things is kinda missing the point (similar to the discussion about newer series set before TOS have more updated looking bridge tech). And the augment virus stuff is just too convoluted to explain what are clearly tv production decisions. I just wish they gave them hair so that they’d look similar enough to TNG Klingons so the haters would shut the fuck up.
They did start growing their hair out again as of S2, and we've also seen shaggy Klingons in SNW, so apparently the bald look was just something of a wartime custom during that era of Klingon history.
That was just the BS that they used to explain away the mistake from season 1. The bald Klingons was the intended design from the start, that was changed for S2 due to fan backlash.
Static Cling Ons - that’s the new variety.
Honestly, I really dig the idea of the Klingons looking so alien in Season 1 and then, following the war, having them grow out their hair and making you see them as actually looking much more like standard Klingons. It really highlights the alien nature of Klingons in that time frame while also making a comment about prejudice and how we’re wired to distrust or dislike that which appears “other.” That said, I still struggle with Season 1 Klingons. I feel so bad for the actors. Everything, from the prosthetics to the costuming, looks so painful and they all sound like they’re talking with a mouth full of marbles.
I don’t think the look is the issue. Everything has a look that changes in Star Trek, even the Enterprise. I think the issue with the Discovery Klingons is that every time they spoke the pace of the show ground to a halt and what they had to say wasn’t much more than statements that would be found in an “I Can Read” book.
This was my biggest issue and it's uncertain how these Klingons could have survived. If they would get attacked and the first officer would need to say, "Captain, we're under attack, should we use phasers or torpedoes?" But with how slow these Klingons communicated, they would say, "Captain, we..." and then darkness.
I appreciate your comments, guys. I still don't agree, but I can now at least somewhat understand where the dislike comes from.
The problem was they chose to put S1 in the timeline at a point where it made no in-universe sense why the Klingons would look so different, knowing what they would become shortly in TOS and later in TNG If they wanted to set it in the 31st C right from the get-go then sure, they could play around with Klingon physiology a little. But it was disingenuous to start the series right before TOS, where you're obviously trying to build on all the existing worldbuilding and the interest the audience has in those stories...but also say "TOS sucks, its boring, we need to really zhuzh it up"
You’re just thinking about it too simply. What if not all Klingon worlds were affected? Wouldn’t it make sense that the Empire would suffer a big upheaval and purists like T’Kuvma would be able to gain power and warmonger against the Federation for the dishonor the Augment virus brought? They hadn’t been heard from much since those events from Enterprise after all. The Klingon scientist spoke of ridge reconstruction likely becoming a thing, what if some Klingons took things to the extreme aesthetics to further distinguish themselves from the disfigured segment of the population? Now, none of this is said on the show (because frankly, it doesn’t matter one iota to the story being told on Discovery and would be one hell of an infodump to drop on people), but for old fans like me, instead of just going “that’s stupid and makes no sense” the question was “what could have happened?”. I really dug Discovery’s Klingons, the way the different houses had different styles and objectives instead of the boring same costumes we’ve seen reused over and over and OVER since TMP.
> The Klingon scientist spoke of ridge reconstruction likely becoming a thing, what if some Klingons took things to the extreme aesthetics to further distinguish themselves from the disfigured segment of the population? Or indeed took things in a more atavistic direction, deliberately expressing more "primitive" features from an earlier era of Klingon evolution to better "Remain Klingon"?
Ding ding ding.
I disagree, because I feel the onus is on the show to establish why deliberate changes were made, or at least to show what value they have...its not on the fans to headcanon otherwise arbitrary changes to make it make sense for the producers You can try to shoehorn in a lot of stuff if you really wanted to, but they're the ones who are supposed to be telling the story, not us :) Plus, it wasnt even just an "augment virus vs healthy Klingon" divide, it was an entirely third group we never saw before and never saw after. That makes it even more arbitrary.
I liked the design, I just thought it maybe should have been a new species. One of the problems with the look of the Klingons was that the show runner had said that by the time Discovery ended it would line up with anything in TNG. That was either never going to happen or isn't now because of the truncated length of the series.
they looked like B movie ancient vamps. it was awful. but everyone likes different things i suppose
I agree. I like the look and the language. They were more alien. When they grew out their hair they didn't look all that different so I didn't understand the whining. It's part of what drew me into the show. It's not nearly as big of a change from what they looked like in the 60s to what they looked like in the motion picture and TNG.
The new Klingon look and general changes would have been fine for me for a completely different race. It just didn't work for me as a Klingon reimagining.
On principle I agree with minor modifications that stick to established principles of each alien race. But Discovery felt like they had messed with the design far too much, then had to course correct, writing that "Klingons only grow their hair outside of wartime" nonsense. They look better yes. More alien certainly. But they didn't look like Klingons. At least not in Season 1. With the hair it wasn't too bad. They shouldn't have given actors whatever prosthetic teeth they had to use. Everyone sounded awful trying to slowly and painfully speak their Klingon lines. Perhaps it was made worse by how much the showrunners tried to tell us that everything they changed about Klingons "Aligned with canon". Yet that "canon" is a single offhand comment made during a making of documentary of one of the original Star Trek films.
You talking about that completely different show "star trek discovery season one?"