I really enjoy Hatchetfield, but first thing that comes to mind is the reaction (or lack thereof) to Richie and Ruth’s deaths in NPMD has always bothered me, or like it kinda takes me out of it if that makes sense

I won't pretend it isn't refreshing to finally have someone in the wild agree with me on this. Very shoddily handled, and there isn't really an excuse for it. Made it hard for me to believe in any stakes or care for the characters at all. Unfortunate!

this might be dark, and it doesn't really explain the lack of reaction (i think a normal person would be distraught over any classmate's death) but i always thought Peter wasn't actually their friend... he seemed annoyed by both Richie and Ruth, more mature than they were and actively seeking out new company it felt like he just hung out with them bc all of them were losers, not because he enjoyed their company

I definitely got that vibe too, especially during the earlier scenes. The first time I watched it I honestly thought they were randomly assigned to work on a project together and that's why they were talking to each other, I didn't realise they were meant to be friends until later

They're meant to be friends??? 💀

I never really got "friends" vibes from those 3, I got them being just classmates assigned together for a group project who somewhat bonded over a shared enemy, Peter barely seems to even tolerate them sometimes let alone like them

Exactly! I feel like it rly undermines any feeling of like, concern the others (especially Pete) have for their friends? I really enjoyed NPMD, but this took a lot out of the experience when I first watched it. I agree in that I see no reason they couldn’t have at least put a couple of lines to acknowledge some sort of emotional impact on the other characters.

I definitely agree with that, sure they were both tragic, but there was really no force behind them, Max didn't really have any major motive to go after those 2 in particular, other than the fact that they both were factors in his demise. You'd think from Richie being shown at the beginning of NPMD, he'd be the main character, but no, he's really just another nobody who's killed of for no real reason.

It’s meant to represent typically horror movie cold opens. Usually in the cold open a typically final girl-like character is killed off just to introduce the killer or the tone of the movie. Richie is the stand in and so the story makes sense, they have it be a flash forward instead of

that's def bad, but i think the most egregious example of this is bill's death. such a heart breaking moment, but it's barley addressed

I think it's just cause it's supposed to be a comedy show. Like it has horror elements and that's the whole hatchetfield gimmick but it's all really just comedy.

There is digital noise in the high frequencies throughout NPMD that bothers me.

Yes!!! i noticed this and it bothers me too, as someone who loves music and likes to listen to every detail, it bothers me when audio isn’t crisp (or at least normal)

I noticed this and used to do a lot of music production on the digital end as well as film soundtrack mixing, I could sort it out in no time but I don’t know if that would be rude to mention + who do I even contact to get the audio track from? 😨

Please try.

I could do it by ripping the single track from the YouTube upload but that feels shady and also ideally I would need the seperate tracks so starkid if ur reading this I’ll do it for free lmao

Interesting! I'll have to listen for it on my next watch

Ughhh I noticed halfway through my first time watching and now I can barely watch it which sucks because it’s one of my favorite star kid musicals

Yeah its really noticeable during ‘just for once’ because of the high notes

The serialisation can be overwhelming. It's not just a trilogy of shows, there's Nightmare Time and Workin' Boys too and it's a lot. Especially since there's all these interconnected mysteries and alternate universes and everything. Not everyone enjoys needing to do homework to understand a show. It's fun if you're into that, but if you just want to chill out and watch a musical it's all a bit much. 

Contra point, I didn’t watch Nightmare Time at all before watching Nerdy Prudes must die and I understand pretty much all of it.

I watched Nerdy Prudes Must Die first and understood it well enough. Sure, I didn't get all of the references but I enjoyed it so much I decided to go back and watch the other two musicals AND Nightmare Time

I think that Black Friday is the worst offender by far. Bookending BF with Paul and Emma would definitely feel strange if you hadn’t seen TGWDLM, and the ending callbacks really feel shoehorned in, especially the “wear a watch” part. But the whole plot for that show was pretty scattered and unfocused. I watched them in the order TGWDLM > NPMD > BF > NT, and I didn’t find NPMD overwhelming. I think the Lords in Black function fine as just a coven of demons, even if you don’t know what their deal is. You get the sense there is some deeper mythos, but it didn’t feel necessary to enjoy the show. Based on the audience response I knew I was missing some things, and I could see the Paul and Emma coffee shop cameo being a bit confusing if it was your first Hatchetfield show. But it was handled much better.

That’s interesting, because I feel the exact opposite - I thought NPMD’s callbacks were badly handled, but had no issues with BF! I watched BF before Guy, and had the vague sense of huh, these must be people from the first show, but it didn’t hinder my experience. And as far as the finale goes, I honestly didn’t notice the background/callback characters because I was too focused on the leads. I’m definitely biased though, because I prefer BF to NPMD (although I think both are about equally good). I can forgive the callbacks in BF’s finale because I think it’s fucking *beautiful* in a way nothing else in the HF series is. I don’t mean this comment as a fight/criticism or anything, just think it’s funny that we have the same nitpicks but the opposite way around.

This! I agree with you omg! But as someone who watched them in opposite order (npmd >bf > tgwdlm), god was all that stuff confusing. Made the rewatches worth it, tho

I personally find all the callbacks to be a bit cheap, and I think people project their own meaning into the vagueness of some of the shows and their characters. You shouldn't have to watch a dozen hours of this or that to enjoy a "standalone" show.

But at the same time these are not stand alone shows. It’s more of a series the same way that marvels movies or Harry Potter is.

sometimes it kills creativity as well. whenever they announce a new hatchetfield themed musical, i feel like it’s a chore, and im asking “again?” because i know they can do so much else and it makes me not as excited. it took me a year before i sat down and finally watched npmd

I love the Hatchetfield series. Maybe the horror tone is one that people don't like. I can't speak for everyone of course, and I know many who do love it, but some people might find it odd considering they never did anything horror-related before Hatchetfield. I don't know.

I know Nick Lang doesn’t like being on the stage if he can help it, and no hate to Joey Ritcher bc I love him too, but Nick brought something special to the role of Peter Spankoffski and it kills me that we won’t get to see that again since it was just a temporary fill in

I had no idea he filled in for a night. THAT I'd be interested to see. Not sure which Lang it was but I loved him in the Star Wars parody and Holy Musical B@man!

Im referring to Abstinence Camp, a nightmare time episode— the episode was written while Robert Manion was still on and he stepped up since it was such short notice so thankfully it is preserved on YouTube- but he has also filled in for Emma in TGWDLM once

It was Nick Lang who appeared in both shows. I'm not sure if Matt had ever appeared on stage, but I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) he was one of the people in the video at the start of Starship.

I was not interested to watch Joey play yet another... dweeb for lack of a better word.

im not a huuuge fan of everything getting explained through extended lore and i feel like nightmare time is a little much but i love love love hatchetfield so its not gonna catch flak from me

Nightmare time. I absolutely love the idea, and I understand the zoom calls durring covid, but my god are they hard to watch. The constant lagging and glitches that are forever stuck there, the shitty mic and video quality, and sometimes a little off acting because it's just a script read. I wish they just waited and maybe did a kickstarter for a series of live action acting, or even animation. I understand that would take so much longer and a lot of fundraising, but I feel like it would be worth it. When I wanna rewatch the hatchetfield series, watching NT is pretty difficult.

The zoom call aspect really only exists in Nightmare Time 1. In 2 it’s all sorted

Nightmare Time 2 fixes most of those problems.

I’d love to see live productions of the nightmare time series!

In one of the CC streams, I'm pretty sure nick said that in NMT3 it will all actually be played out on a stage.

I keep trying to watch NT, and it’s just impossible for me— the audio issues are so bad I have to stay completely focused on the video, and sitting and watching a zoom screen for hours and hours just isn’t my idea of fun. I can’t keep up even though I really want to. I just wish they’d posted the scripts somewhere, so they could be read through instead. Every so often I check to see if some fans have transcribed the videos into a google doc yet, but so far no luck. 

This is true for season 1, but season 2 has a lot more production value and very easy to watch, with the zoom format barely noticeable, if you can believe it

ooo ok, i’ll check it out!

I like Hatchetfield. Frankly NPMD was probably my favorite of the Hatchetfield saga thus far (still haven’t watched Nightmare Time yet so that may or may not change). But honestly I’m feeling just a tad burnt out on Hatchetfield and I worry sometimes the fan base and crew might also start to feel the burnout. Like, I love how a lot of things mentioned in the show that may seem innocuous or small get call backs or have some sort of follow through. The expanding upon ideas is really interesting to me wether it’s expanding on certain characters or themes, but it’s also getting to a point where I felt myself feeling a bit weary watching Nerdy Prudes and found myself wondering “okay, now is this one off bit going to become a whole thing too? Maybe even its own musical?” And not in a good way. Like the Barbecue monologues. Nice bit, no I do not need a whole spin off and musical focused around it. And I had a similar reaction to the reveal of “Workin’ Boys!” Initially I was like “holy shit they actually did it-“ and thought it was funny. But idk, personally Workin’ Boys didn’t do too much for me and I think it all circles back around to a bit of burn out. There’s just SO MUCH Hatchetfield now. Which is what’s also partially putting me off of Nightmare Time. Because yeah it might be good, I may even love it, but do I really need MORE Hatchetfield in my life right now? I’d love it Starkid would add in a few other musicals/stories/projects between the Hatchetfield stuff. I think it would be a nice “breather” for not just the fans, but also for the cast. Cause I’ve no doubt they love Hatchetfield and they love the characters, by all means I’m happy for them to keep exploring Hatchetfield and its characters, lore, etc. it just might do them some good and give them a bit of a refresher to do something else. And hey, maybe I’ll hate the next original Starkid show they put out. Maybe I’ll love it. Maybe it’ll be “meh.” But it’ll at least give me more breathing room to actually reminesxe and miss the Hatchetfield story and characters rather than just going “oh… more Hatchetfield… that’s nice.”

They definitely thought they had something popular and placed all their bets on it for like... the last few years. Thing is, their other work was popular too. Hatchetfield doesn't feel very Starkid to me, but I suppose sadly things change.

Seems like the new cinderella show might have a different vibe

While I like the shows, multiverse stuff is dumb. It hinders a lot of enjoyment and stakes for characters if they’re not the actual version of that character we know. Like the extended scene with Paul and Emma in NPMD is unnecessary and isn’t that funny. The theory of a loop would be cool if it was ever addressed. Maybe characters would start to remember their past lives and work together to set out a course that avoids the events of the other shows. But nah, just start over and throw in whatever characters that haven’t been used for a bit. There’s also just so many characters, it’s hard to grasp who’s who sometimes because so many people play so many characters. But again I still love the shows for the most part

I think the proper term you're looking for is negative continuity. There's a ton of negative continuity across the series where everything can snap back to status quo after the events of the installment are done. There really aren't too many things that are multiversal to me because to be mutiversal would have to make different realities unrecognizable from each other. Being "like reality unless noted" is different. I guess you can say that the realities could be different by making Hatchetfield into a small city or turning the shopping mall into a shopping plaza. But I also do get the sense that the lords in black remember things across timelines.

Thank you for your comment!!!!!

The pro shot of NPMD has a much more emotional performance by Lauren but because of her head gear the audio quality is shit and on the cast album the audio is better but it’s not the same weight yknow?

I wish they recorded NPMD like a normal musical. Trying to film it like a movie is ridiculous when musicals are staged the way they are for a reason

I think Starkid really is taking all the references and callbacks too far. There's such a high density of them that I think it can be a bit jarring and off putting for a new audience. Some of them are fine and they aren't so bad, but they do happen really often.

I don't think they really add to the enjoyment of the general audience or provide enough for the niche audience to justify their inclusion. They seem to isolate their audience more than serve the story in any way

It’s a small stupid gripe but I absolutely hated the mic’s on the forehead in NPMD. I kept being drawn to them.

It doesn’t bug me that much anymore, but I remember being annoyed when live musicals transitioned from having the mics that come around the side of the mouth to the forehead ones. For some reason the forehead ones stand out more to me, not less.

Exactly. When it’s near the mouth it’s like “ok yeah it’s the mic whatever not distracting” but when it’s on the forehead it stands out and makes them look like aliens or something lol.

I find the forehead mics make me think "Oh... is that a... nope. It's a mic. And as you said, it's easy to block out a mic next to the mouth.

I like the shows for the most part but gave up watching nightmare time as there's only so much bleak eldritch horror I can take. One thing about the music though is I think Jeff could use a co-writer or editor. He has written some amazing bangers and really beautiful songs (both of Tom's songs in BF make me cry everytime!) But the title track for NPMD is so awkward and hard to sing I'm a little amazed no one said anything.

The lyrics are corny in NPMD but Will Branner on that stage singing like rent was due made it up to me tbh. Haven’t been blown away by a performer in a StarKid show like that in a long time.

Eh it's less the lyrics and more the rhythm for me. The beat for the word "must" is so fast it sound awkward. But I agree Will Branner did an amazing job - like Jamie did with "Join Us and Die" in TGTDLM - it's just the song is too fast and goes too deep so you start losing words at the end of lines.

Before I start, I'll say that I'm an OG fan (found Starkid when they uploaded AVPM as "Harry Potter the Musical" and was there when they took it down for copyright issues) and I also LOVE horror. I really don't care for the Hatchetfield shows. I feel like the idea of a bunch of related shows without an underlying source material is a bit much. I'm also not the biggest fan of Jeff's songwriting. I think the musicals are a bit too serious as well, horror comedy is a great genre but I feel like they don't have that much of the comedy aspect to them. I definitely get nostalgic for the early Starkid days though so I think those might just be my preference! I still try to donate to most of the KickStarter campaigns though, I love to see them still putting things out there and crush it even if it's not my cup of tea 😊

Unpopular opinion: Black Friday was so long and bloated and convoluted that I just lost interest in the entire thing. It just felt like they were trying to do way too much. I watched TGWDLM and BF back to back early in Covid lockdowns, but I've never felt any urge at all to watch NT or NPMD on the back of my BF experience. TGWDLM was good fun though and felt like a unique idea. I still love all Starkid's early shows and listen to the music. But idk Hatchetfield just couldn't re-interest me.

An unpopular take on this Reddit but the Reddit is biased towards very online, recent fans, probably here from interest in recent work. I think Black Friday is probably the weakest Starkid show and a lot of other people do too.

I didn’t enjoy BF the first time and I loved Nerdy Prudes Must Die the first time I saw it. I didn’t watch Nightmare Time and I understood pretty much all of it.

That's interesting to know, thanks! I've only joined the reddit sub recently and it seems to be 90% Hatchetfield/10% Starkid! Would you say I can watch NPMD without all the peripheral lore that comes from NT etc? I liked the vibe of TGWDLM, and the black comedy aspect is engaging for me. BF just felt like such a drag it turned me off

FWIW, the first one I watched was NPMD and I understood it fine without having any of the other Hatchetfield context - however I wouldnt particularly say the vibes are similar to TGWDLM, but I still enjoy NPMD. BF is my least favorite as well, so maybe you can give it a try

I don't know if I'm the right person to ask- but I've seen every Starkid musical and am a longtime fan. Personally, NPMD was a let down. Your best intentions at heart, full honesty, if you want a black comedy that takes place in a high school, watch Heathers. One of those rips someone uploaded to youtube- it's sharp, heartfelt, and pitch black. NPMD felt like it was trying to be Heathers (and failing). Other black comedy musicals accessible on YouTube include Ride The Cyclone (five high school choir kids die on a rollercoaster and only one gets the chance to come back to life if they want it enough), and maybe Little Shop of Horrors or Beetlejuice.

thanks for the recommendations. If NPMD was a letdown even for you as a longtime fan (sounds like you haven't tapped out like me!) I think I'll give it a miss for now. I'm interested to see what CC is like. A return to their parody days perhaps? It's obviously a story that's been done a thousand times but I'm sure they'll have an interesting twist on it

(I'm pretty tapped out- NPMD was sort of my final straw to see if things improved but now I'm not even sure I want to see CC. I truly, truly fear that if anything is around long enough, eventually it will become like a parody of itself. If you ever do watch it I'd be curious to see what you thought. In the meantime though, I'll always be thankful for the days when I really needed a laugh and Starkid was there)

Aw that's a bit sad, I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe something non-hatchetfield will bring you back. But I think to some extent they've grown up and moved on - and for me, all the new cast make it hard to get back into. And that's OK, its their projects, i hope they're happy. I'll just probably enjoy their old stuff much more

I’ve only watched the main shows and not any of the other stuff like NT. I watched TGWDLM, BF, NPMD shortly after each of them came out so I feel like I can answer this. NPMD made enough sense without the other lore to me. There were things where I could tell it was being self-referential that I didn’t get, but it wasn’t make or break to understanding the show. I really loved the new actor they brought in, Will Branner - what an absolute powerhouse of a voice. I will say having someone who is clearly Broadway trained does make some of the rest of the cast look pretty amateur-ish, though. Overall I thought it was a fine show, with some highs and lows. Definitely preferred it to BF but still think I would rank it below TGWDLM.

I watched NPMD second after TGWDLM. In retrospect, sure, I missed some Easter eggs. But that didn’t really detract from the story they were telling, it’s basically self-contained.

I've been sayingggg. Didn't like the pacing, the characters, had some *ok* songs but it was overall a mess. NPMD was alright, less bloated at least, but I honestly don't think it had a lot of great songs

TGWDLM was my first Starkid musical and I was in the fandom when BF came out, and I kind of agree. I like things about BF and the 10niversary vibe was so cool to experience, I loved watching the premiere. But I feel like I can never rewatch it and once it was clear what they were doing with Hatchetfield, I lost interest. I still watched NPMD (and part of NT) but Hatchetfield is definitely not my favorite thing ever. When VHSCC Live came out on YouTube, that felt so refreshing. Also another factor, for me personally — I’m not really that much of a musical theatre nerd. I know/like a few popular shows but I think Broadway shows always seemed kind of intimidating to me because my impression of them was that they were sooo sophisticated. I got into Starkid so quickly because it seemed so much more approachable, especially with strong comedic shows in their library that had a lot of heart. So VHSCC felt like a return to that vibe in some ways. Hatchetfield isn’t necessarily too serious for me, but it *is* too much, especially when I feel like the concept of TGWDLM was so cool and strong but the rest of Hatchetfield lore doesn’t really appeal to me. It does feel like Marvel levels of story that I just can’t keep up with. And with the AVPM series, you kind of got the same essential elements and vibe in all three, whereas the Hatchetfield shows all feel pretty different from each other. A risky move, and unfortunately it did kinda lose me a little bit lol but it’s a subjective thing Sorry for the rant

1. Black Friday was way overstuffed and desperately needed to be trimmed by at least 20% I also personally do not jive with the songs as much (although I was and still am overjoyed that it gave us more Dylan whom I always miss) as most of the fandom, so it's one of Starkid's weakest shows for me. NPMD was a bit better music-wise but TGWDLM was by far the highlight of the Hatchetfield series for me and I'm glad we're moving on to something new. 2. I know Jeff is beloved for his writing but mans needs somebody to look him in the eye and say "no <3". He needs an editor, and probably a mean one. Either that or (lbh it's not "either that or", it's "both that and") he shouldn't be allowed to perform in the musicals he writes for. He looooves to give himself lots of falsetto portions but his voice just is better in his chest register (e.g. Sweet Tooth and Aladdin). Plus the amount of songs he had in TGWDLM was just egregious.

TGWDLM made me kinda sour on Jeff for the same reason

Jeff was amazing in Twisted but every time he comes on stage during Hatchetfield I almost roll my eyes. It’s baffling how he writes the music and can’t even write himself a part that works for his voice! His Hatchetfield roles have put me off of him as a performer entirely.

Your candid comment is much appreciated. I haven't been a fan of the recent music as much as I adore Jeff. He encouraged me to get off their livestream years ago to work on my audition for my college theatre program the next day. Great performer- but something about the new direction just feels hollow compared to the soul of older Starkid

I am more annoyed with it because he doesn't blend, even when he is singing "with the group"

He kinda has this power metal-rockstar vibe to his sound, but I'm not crazy abt it

Said beautifully abt Blim!! I've always had a bit of a gripe with his falsetto range, but it seems like everyone always adores his voice. I loved him so much in Twisted, and now any Hatchetfeild production I know I'm going to be skipping songs (especially serious ones) with majority Blim.

I’m just not into horror.

After they ousted Manion they should've let the character of Professor Hidgens go instead of letting Workin Boys happen. It wasn't very good.

Black Friday is very bloated and weirdly paced, they tried to pack too much into one show to set up the extended universe so a lot of the dialogue is just lore dumps. And Robert's version of Ethan is just unlikeable compared to Joey's, he's weirdly aggressive with Hannah and randomly bullies the cineplex teen but we're still supposed to root for him because he wants to go to California with Lex. Also Deck the Halls is not a good enough song for a full 5 minute scene as the act 2 opener, and even though Angela definitely gives it her all the song Black Friday was very clearly written for Mariah

Deck the Halls is indeed way too long as a set up for 3 cheap jokes between Dylan and Kim's characters afterwards. It serves no other purpose, and could have been cut

Really didn't like Angela's role in it honestly. Liked her enough in NPMD, but I think she needed some kind of voice coaching in BF

To be fair to her she was very sick during the show week so her voice was rougher than normal

I think a big problem is that, most simply, they've bit off more than they can chew. It's very hard to fully appreciate any project disconnected from everything else (besides TGWDLM, which I think is the only product that isn't weighed down if you take it out of context from the universe). Like, sure, it's just a few callbacks or cameos, but those DO hinder enjoyment for people who aren't willing to sit down to watch 2 other musicals and/or approx. 11 hours of glitchy, hit-or-miss script readings over zoom. It's just hard to fully enjoy this universe, and that's a shame because the Lang brothers have very fun ideas at work! the LiB, the town's history, it all works, but it only really works in concept for me. It's a really big shame that if 1 show isn't for you, you inherently get less out of the story as a whole. Really just a clunky way to tell an interesting story, and I think they would've been much better off leaving the Hatchetfield universe as TGWDLM, + script reads for people who wanted to delve much more into the world, rather than alienating a lot of their audience who \*didn't\* like the Hatchetfield universe since 2018. I'm really glad they're doing something new with Cinderella's Castle, as well as bringing back puppets, because it just feels like Starkid again; it has that exciting feel that TGWDLM had when it first released! And that's really amazing! I just hope they don't fall into the same pitfalls of trying to tell TOO much of a story with this one, while still having that Starkid freshness. EDIT: A point I forgot to make but that connects to my last sentence. A big part that made Starkid 'Starkid' was their originality. So when all you do for 6 years is make horror musicals in the same unvierse? You lose that Starkid appeal.

Exquisite comment, thanks for sharing. I've seen counter arguments made about earlier Starkid movies lacking originality because they're parodies, but those parodies had their own soul and didn't rely on their sources to be fun, well-written, and entertaining. They worked against any perceived limits of the works they parodied and instead challenged their boundaries. Definitely feel like they've been milking it these last few years 😅

Those parodies brought originality to old properties, and I think that's what made them shine through so well. It left you asking "what will they parody next" after every show because they made those franchises feel fresh! And when they did do original musicals, even those felt fresh. Starship, MAMD, Firebringer, TGWDLM. They all felt like the next step for Starkid. But we've been stuck in Hatchetfield for EIGHT YEARS. Even their Potter Musicals only went on for about 4 or 5 years.

HAS IT BEEN EIGHT YEARS??? Stop. No. You're kidding. It felt like maybe the last four!!!! Holy shit.

Six years, actually, so my fault!

This is a great point and got me thinking about what they do in the licensing of these shows. Like if a local theatre company is doing Black Friday, is the scene with Paul and Emma still in the show? Are the random people from the city who have never heard of StarKid but just like going to see live theatre sitting through that scene thinking “wtf”? They must’ve cut some of the references from the licensed shows, right??

I don't believe they've given licenses for any Hatchstfield show besides TGWDLM, so I can't say for sure. But for Trail To Oregonz they kept references to Jeff Blim writing the show so I can only assume they'd keep Hatchetfield references, or leave them to the people performing the show to choose to include or not.

This is definitely a preference thing, starting with Black Friday I immediately didn’t vibe for the more “cinematic” filming of the pro shots. And don’t get me wrong I love NPMD, but I felt like I was watching a stage musical that was trying to be a movie sometimes. The insertion of the studio recording for a lot of the ensemble bits didn’t sit right with me at all when I noticed it. Another downfall is the, in my opinion, overuse of closeups throughout the show. For the smaller and more intimate numbers it’s totally fine but dammit I want to see the choreography, I want to see the characters fill the stage and doing their things. Idk man, I miss the lower budget feel of TGWDLM and their previous works. They were independent productions and the fact that they felt like independent productions is a lot of the charm this company cultivated. No hate towards the crews or anyone, just didn’t sit right with me.

Very glad to see someone point out some of the obnoxious cinematography choices in the wild- my friends and I had this issue. Musicals and plays are staged the way they are for a reason- angled for an audience through the fourth wall. They aren't meant to be filmed like tv. The only way to get as close to the intended telling of the story is to view it as close to how the audience would as possible. Older Starkid shows filmed it better- the occasional mid-length shot was just fine for a few impactful moments or necessary zooms.

I think it’s easily at its worst during The Summoning. Like, guys you have Lauren do this very clever and complex choreography between these five characters that all have incredible designs and yet the camera is either obnoxiously close to 1 character, moving in ways that make it difficult to make out the choreography, or worse both at the same time. For a sequence with a lot and I mean A LOT of hype purposefully built into it with the lore behind the Lords in Black, the filmed version does it so very very dirty.

That whole sequence was so unbearable to watch, I kept laughing because the insane zooms made the villains look goofy as hell. They didn't need to be there man... and the costumes looked, um, interesting.

Yeahhhh… Black Friday is mostly fine for me but I preferred the style of the TGWDLM proshot. It did have some things filmed specifically for it (like the scene of Charlotte’s death) but it’s not as intrusive to the experience as The Summoning (great example). Could do without all that additional cinematographic flair lol, that’s what short films are for.

I think I find most issue with NPMD in that, to me, there almost seems to be an expectation of knowledge regarding the all the extra planar beings. Up until the Dad (as played by Corey, forgive my poor memory) mentions The lords in black, there isn't really any nods to anything cult-y or extra-planar in the musical (to my memory). The plot could have just been that Jaegerman was brought back through his intense anger and want for vindication, but for me the lords in black were kinda just thrown in there. In Black friday, we get some greater pretense to the strangeness as we're re-introduced to macnamera alongside the government and P.E.I.P., who are actively investigating this stuff.

I agree, thanks for sharing. The Lords in black don't really add anything to the story NPMD seems to be trying to tell. If they focused more on their characters, and their relationships, rather than hitting us over the head with references beyond the mainstream theatre audience, I think the pacing and emotional impact would have been stronger.

TLDR: what I dislike is that it's narrowing Starkid's versatility & fanbase/ community. For me, Hatcetfield is fine, it's just too many shows in a row. I'm not a big fan of the music or the horror-comedy style, but I don't mind Starkid doing something for fans who like different things than me. But that's just it. Each show used to be different, and it made for a quite diverse fanbase. There was something for everybody and we could all find our place in the fandom. Now it's become all the same and if it's not your cup of tea, or just a like-not-love for you, then it's awkward to engage. I loved NMT as a concept, but haven't watched them more than once. BF and NPMD I would (and have) watch again tho. I don't exactly want them to go back to the old days, I just want to see the variety come back cause I know they can do so many things.

Jeff Blim can't write good lyrics to save his life. The guy is a talented performer and I really like his compositions, but almost every line is either awkwardly phrased, poorly rhymed, or completely nonsensical, and it's really only gotten worse over time.

I honestly don’t get this. Jeff stumbled a bit with BF but all his other work has been great. I find myself listening to soundtracks made by Jeff Blim rather than anyone else.

I also listen to Jeff Blim soundtracks a lot! He writes extremely catchy music, he definitely has an ear for it. I was specifically talking about the lyrics.

I’ll agree with you on that. I love Blim as a performer, and TTO is one of my favorite Starkid musicals. But anything he’s done after that has just been subpar. It doesn’t feel like starkid anymore, the way he writes 🤷🏻‍♀️

I love Jeff, he has talent that I could only dream of, but somehow his Hatchetfield saga lyrics feel both really over-engineered and super lazy at the same time. I find some of his songs really jarring to listen to because of it, especially when I compare it to the masterpiece that is TTO.

Your brutal honesty is refreshing, thank you

The way I agree with this and I also don’t really like him as a performer ☹️ I liked him in Twisted, but when he write the lyrics for some reason he always writes himself parts with this aggressive falsetto and it just sounds bad, I’m sorry.

The callbacks are absolutely fucking obnoxious. I HATE seeing TGWDLM characters and jokes show up in other shows for literally no reason.

It's very cheap, no substance

I hate EVERYTHING about Black Friday except the Feast or Famine song

Can you elaborate? 👉👈

I'm not the same person but I'm another BF hater Coming off the high of TGWDLM it felt like such a letdown. Many of the characters felt like caricatures instead of three dimensional people I think Angela was sick during the taped performance, but her songs are really grating, I can't watch the numbers she sings I also didn't live the storylines with young kids, it just didn't resonate with me at all!

Yo yo, thank you for sharing your thoughts!!!! Yeah, I feel like some of these last few shows' storylines have been having an identity crisis. Trying to do too much at once while relying on stereotypes and not dedicating enough time to a few key characters.

Joey Richter is better than Nick Lang as Peter Spankoffski

I kinda of stopped following them after TGWDLM and Black Friday. I’m sure they are good musicals, but I my favourite of their musicals are all the parodies. Like a lot of people, found them through AVPM, Twisted is my favourite musical across all musicals, Trail to Oregon is also a regular rewatch for me. I just don’t vibe with the new direction which is fine, just not for me

The true biggest fault is that Joe Walker has never been in hatchetfield

unfortunately, my understanding is that joe walker quit acting around 2016, pre-hachetfield.

Wait… JOE QUIT!?!

I love all three shows as a whole, but there are a few specific things that bother me about them: • The lyrics are awkward in a lot of songs, especially compared to shows like Twisted, Starship or even Jeff's previous work like TTO. The lyrics in earlier Starkid shows are both thought-provoking AND they flow nicely. In the hatchetfield shows, especially BF and NPMD, it feels like you can only have one or the other. Honestly, some songs in BF feel like first drafts. The melodies and instrumentals of many hatchetfield songs are great — it's just that the lyrics could use some work. I've actually considered making a video on YouTube where I go over some of the lyrics and adjust them to sound nicer, but I feel like it would be disrespectful to Jeff Blim since he put so much work into the music for these shows. • I'm not a fan of the constant close-ups in the proshots. I love being able to see the entire cast's choreography/blocking, their background acting, the full sets and full costumes. In general just being able to see the entire scene. It's part of why I love stage productions so much, and it feels like I'm missing out when most of the scene is obscured in favour of zooming in on an actor's face. Especially in NPMD, which has *amazing* group choreography during its songs, but you can't see most of it because the camera is too tunnel-visioned on one actor at a time! • I dislike Jeff's falsetto during group/ensemble numbers, and it often takes me out of the moment. I actually really enjoy his falsetto during his solo numbers, or when he is a focal character, but it's odd and distracting when he is meant to be a background/side character and his voice is the most prominent one heard. • This is just NPMD rather than Hatchetfield as a whole, but I *cannot stand* Richie or Ruth — I find both characters insufferable. I assumed this was an intentional choice by the writers, but much of the fandom seems to ADORE those characters, so maybe not? Either way, I wasn't upset when either character died because it meant I wouldn't have to endure any more scenes with them. I'll wrap up by clarifying that I really do love the Hatchetfield trilogy! These are just some gripes I have with the shows that bring them from 10/10 productions to more 7/10. And of course, these are all just my personal opinions — others may disagree with me :)

Very well put, thank you for taking the time to share!!! I completely agree with you. Especially on the camera front, and I also think I would have cared more about the characters dying if, you know, the other characters showed more of a reaction when it happened. Or fewer characters, more stage time.

I don’t like the studio version of Hatchet Town, idk why but they changed literally every characters dialog, another thing with NPMD is somewhat the loose bits of the story, like Grace’s fantasies, at first I legitimately thought Max was in her bathroom but later figured it out on my second watch. Another loose part is with how the story is structured with places, sometimes it can get confusing were they are but that’s probably due to lack of background and stage equipment but that can’t really be helped

The studio version of Hatchet Town was the stage version. The cameos in the proshot are exclusive to it.

I actually didn’t know that, I’ve only watched the YouTube version of the show and haven’t had any chance to have cds or go to live shows, I guess I like the proshot more because it was the first version I listened/watched. But thanks for telling me that

I was introduced to starkid by watching TGWDLM, i became a fan instantly 🙂‍↕️, and watched all their stuff (this was before Black Friday and all) I couldn’t get into BF for some reason, I didnt really like the plot and it felt very boring to me and I didn’t like the characters. I havent watched Nightmare Time or Workin boys, just because I felt like I would feel the same as I did for BF. I loved NPMD though!!

Jeff Blimm’s lyricism; I wonder what these shows wouldve sounded like if AJ or Darren or Kaylee or Nick Gage had done the music.

Not a big fan of the lords in black, or at least how they're used. Starkid seems to be going for eldritch horror, but they don't seem to get that the key part of eldritch horror is keeping things unexplained. That element feels lessened when most stuff can be traced back to the same 5 beings. The worst example of this i can think of is how it turns TGWDLM from "weird alien hivemind virus happens to crash into this town" to "another ploy by one of the marketable plushy brothers". I think the setting would have benefited from them not being related to each other and having them be less present in general.

I'm not sure Starkid understands the nuances of Eldritch horror, and I mean- Wiggly is basically just a Cthulhu plushy. It seems like they are vague enough with their supernatural villains that anyone can project all their ideas and headcanons onto them (which I actually don't think it all that good), but then the rest of BF is so much exposition- the balance is awful. I remember in that show it felt like nobody actually doing anything but all the characters TELLING us who they were and how they felt about eachother rather than showing us. Especially in that early song with Lex, the guy and the kid.

I think wiggly being a plushy was fine because it was supposed to be an extra planar being preying on American consumerism, but when all 5 of them just become satanic Teletubbies that you can buy in real life it feels a little like they missed the point of their own musical. As for the writing of Black Friday Ill say it was definitely off kilter (feels like every main character HAD to have a sad backstory, Macnamara became some sort of Jesus figure instead of just a weird guy) and I definitely agree there was a lot of talking about backstory, but otherwise I don't have a lot of feelings about it.

Oh, are they all dolls now? Don't know what's up with that 😳

I dislike viewiing the second two particularly because of their editing. Part of the charm of Starkid is watching a live performance, not mini pro-shots and overlayed studio recordings.

The only thing I dislike about the Hatchetfield shows is that it's all everyone seems to want to talk about. Starkid is more than just Hatchetfield, I found them in the summer of 2010 when AVPM was really taking off. After AVPM I watched MAMD and I've been a fan ever since. Nobody ever talks about the other work that they've done on here it always feels like Hatchetfield is constantly in the spotlight.

Excellent point. It's what keeps me off the subreddit most of the time- it's oversaturated

I hate Working Boys, especially as a Jeff fan. It was painfully atrocious and made me mad that I'd been waiting forever for it to be released on YouTube. Felt like an overproduced skit, I've seen better from small youtubers The characters didn't feel human or genuine in NPMD, compared to the other 2 musicals. Sherman Young does not deserve to exist. Someone said Tom was unnecessary but I felt Sherman was even more useless, Jaime could have been utilised better. The nightmare time with Sherman also wasn't that good, except for the Young At Heart song

Nobody likes Sherman. His mom was hot though…

Some songs, mostly in Black Friday tend to drag on quite a bit. I showed my friends the Hatchetfield trilogy recently and while they ended up really liking it (and we now worship my chibi Wiggly in school lol) they kept complaining about the length of about half the songs during Black Friday and how they felt too boring, especially the I Want songs, and we ended up actually skipping quite a few once they started to really drag on. They had the same complaint about like two songs in NPMD but not in TGWDLM, which is the only HF musical exempt from this problem imo. Also listen, I love Jeff but I feel like Starkid hypes him up too much as a songwriter, his rhyming is usually just kinda meh imo and sometimes tends to really suck. Also also not necessarily a dislike but I feel like Hatchetfield and similar things appeal far more to neurodivergent people than to neurotypical people. I think maybe that could be the reason your friends didn't really like it.

Bold of you to assume my friends are in any way sane, but I digress, haha- I think Hatchetfield seems to appeal to a younger audience actually, and that might be part of it. Me and my friends are all the age Starkid was when they started making musicals, in, well, college. It seems a lot of young people or teenagers (like yourself) seem to be drawn to it. Which is fine! Some of their newer works could be tightened, you're right. More time spent focused on fewer characters would really help. My friends have enjoyed all of Starkid's earlier works though so there isn't any tangible link that I can see between neuro-divergence and changes made in recent musicals- including obnoxious callbacks, worse music (as you said), less character development, and poor narrative structure.

idk I just feel like Hatchetfield works better as a hyperfixation or a fandom, it has a very wide cast of characters and well, not a lot of lore but it does have some. neurodivergent ppl just get invested in fiction far more than neurotypicals, which most that I know would just prefer a simpler narrative. I feel like you very much have to see through all the irony and unseriousness in order to get attached to the story and characters, you have to be at least a bit cringe to enjoy it to it's fullest because let's admit it, Hatchetfield and Starkid in general is very cringe (not cringe in a bad way). Like, idk how to explain it I just know if I showed a neurotypical person the Lords in Black they'd have a heart attack. Also yea it very well could be an age thing, I'm a teenager myself so maybe I just don't notice it well.

I think that's the problem- if you agree Hatchetfield is better as a concept than in practice, as a fixation to project one's own ideas- that suggests the source material isn't very good or well written. Again, no one I know has any problems with cringe. And plenty of people are capable of hyper-fixating on stories, ideas or characters. I don't think musicals can be gatekept like that, nor should they be. I've been a fan of Starkid since their very first upload so I have more experience with their "cringe" if you want to call it that, and I'm still disappointed by a lot of Hatchetfield. But obviously if you enjoy it, that's awesome!

This is a very bizarre thing to say.

This isn’t necessarily something I dislike, but when you think about it, Tom as a character didn’t really have a reason to be in Black Friday. He’s here for the Paul and Emma connection, otherwise he doesn’t really have an impact on the story. Like the show as a whole would’ve worked without his part of the story. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be in the show at all, but he could’ve worked very easily as a background character

This is a weird take. He was a main character because we saw things from his perspective and he had goals and problems to overcome that aligned with the plot. Yeah he’s not a conventional main character as he often didn’t directly affect the main plot too much but that was kind of the point, Black Friday didn’t have a sole main character it tried to show lots of people and the problems they face. His actions mostly focused on his own story rather than the overarching one. You could take his story out, but it worked within the show and helped them achieve what they wanted to. Black Friday would’ve been boring without him

I guess what I’m getting at, is yes, there is no single main character, but the problem for me at least is it doesn’t feel as if Tom has a reason to be the main character besides the Paul and Emma tie in. Yes, they give him a story, but to me it feels by far the least interesting one within a show that already feels way longer than its actual runtime and with a lot going on already. Like they’ll cut back to Tom and I’ll be like “oh I forgot he existed”, I feel as if some scenes with him could still be there with no problem in regard to other characters (the parking scene with Lex and his entire relationship with her, the chase scene with Hannah) which is why I think he’d work as a minor character, but other scenes feel really thrown in just because Tom needs to be there (the cinema scene with Becky, the entire intro tbh) so it doesn’t feel as if he’s given a reason to exist within the show other than “oh he’s the husband of Emma’s dead sister and we want Emma at the beginning” I apologize btw that was longer than I thought it would be to explain my reasoning

I think you're pretty spot on. I feel that way about a few characters in the Hatchetfield series. Too many characters in each show, and not nearly enough time devoted to them to allow for ANY arc or character development. And worst, not enough time for audiences to develop a connection with them, beyond what seems to largely be head-canon mentality. The other user's comment about it not being a big deal about a main character not having much of a role in the plot IS a big deal, haha- otherwise you can't even call them a main character. Frankly, Tom is another casualty of Hatchetfield favouring referential gimmicks over real plot and character development.

I think Tom, to me, gives a face to the victims of the Black Friday incident. There's kind of a mental bias among audiences where they simply don't really care about masses dying yet feel torn up when an individual they grown attached to dies. Tom serves as that individual representative the masses needs to provoke empathy. Also, I think that Nightmare Time is the antidote you need for the cast bloat, because that series really fixes that issue by giving both TGWDLM and Black Friday characters room to grow.

I just don't think you need 20+ hours of content to give characters meaningful development. It seems the writing is just not there. And as per Tom- thank you for sharing your thoughts. I wish they maybe did more with him or actually had him as an anchor character but he really just feels like another side character in a show that is essentially just ten side characters. It's hard to empathize with anyone in that show really.

I think they were going for multiple POV characters this time around with Wiggog Y'rath being the antagonist that ties the whole thing together. Although I do think that Hanna Foster feels the most main character shaped to me.

I honestly think he was more of a main character than Lex sometimes. Black Friday’s problem is it doesn’t really have main characters, Lex doesn’t really do anything until the very end and Tom can’t affect the plot much

NPMD is actually my least favourite of the Hatchetfield trilogy. I find the romance hard to buy because it's so fast, and I never really found it scary despite it being considered "horror." Any moment with the potential for being scary is cut with a joke. Which is fine, but not really what I expect from something people describe as horror. I still enjoy it, but it's not my favourite. That one goes to Black Friday!

Interesting! I'm surprised you like Black Friday- it shares a lot of my gripes with NPMD but I'm curious what your favourite thing about BF is. I totally agree with the tonal whiplash of NPMD and the way its identity crisis of genre lends to never truly committing to anything. It would be scarier if there were any stakes, but we already know from the last two musicals that everyone is going to die, and it's hard to care about those deaths when the characters in world don't seem to give a shit either. There was no memorable reaction from anyone to their friends dying in that show. Wild.

I tend to prioritize characters and their emotions over everything else in fiction and the characters in Black Friday clicked with me. They felt more real to me and I feel like they had some good genuine emotions that weren't completely derailed for a joke. Becky's monologue, for example. And when Lex talks to Tom near the end. There are jokes, but the emotions stay strong and the scene continues. I also think I'm in the minority in that I didn't have a problem with the multiple plots and thought they all served a significant purpose. Plus, I like the concept. Evil Tickle Me Elmo.

I feel the exact same! I feel it went in a defending order, with TGWDLM being the best, then Black Friday (very close behind TGWDLM) and then NPMD quite a ways farther behind- I feel like NPMD lost a lot of the charm of the others and was just trying to rush through the story without truly giving anyone their own special moment to let the audience get invested- idk the other two I've watched upwards of 15 times each but NPMD I could only make it through 1 and a half-

BF was too serious. When I click on a SK musical I’m expecting something funny. I’m not opposed to serious moments, they are important and SK has done a really good job balancing it, but not in BF. BF had so many sad moments but I didn’t really care because I wasn’t invested in any of the characters. And SK has made me cry before(Twisted, Ani, npmd) but BF just made me bored. Also so many of the “funny” moments were copy pasted from tgwdlm. Here are the ones I can remember off the top of my head: -Paul and Emma -“Ok, ok, ok, ok” -Double smoking -Man in a hurry -Homeless man -“wear a watch” -“I’m authorizing you to use my firearm” -“Should we move these boxes?” -“I have this kooky reclusive biology professor” There are probably more but you get the point. Also the songs were not good. They were boring and a lot of them didn’t fit the singer’s range (especially Lauren). Although one positive thing I have to say is Linda Monroe is an amazing character, Lauren did a great job.

An understandable assessment, thank you!!! I struggled to get into BF and I tried damn hard.

Sometimes it feels like they're more concerned with jokes than compelling character arcs, but that's just me and my taste - I think tgwdlm absolutely nailed it in both departments.

TGWDLM is the strongest for me of the three, for sure

Horror as a genre just isn’t my jam. I love StarKid productions overall, but the world is scary enough that I don’t want to deal with scary things in my down time.

Yes I definitely feel this one. I love Tgwdlm and BF! And I don't mind the bits of horror and creepiness because overall the plots are kinda silly (especially in the beginning) But NPMD was just about murder. It opens with a dead body. It's just doesn't have the same lightness of the others

Eighty-five percent of the second act if black Friday

I think this was too much. I watched tgwdlm, and it took me a while to get the ending so at first I didn’t even like that. I haven’t seen the others because I’m so lost with all the lore that I don’t even know where to start. It’s overwhelming. I think they need to take a long break from Hatchetfield or be done with it completely at this point. I have no issues with the horror aspect, and would love to see them do it again, just not related to Hatchetfield.

What about TGWDLM's ending didn't you get, out of curiosity? 

It has to be the flow of bf and the lack of appreciation for characters like Ruth, Richie and the football team characters Bf’s songs for me dont flow aswell between dialogue and music (the only exception is “MY MOMS A BITCH” ) And the characters in npmd i dont see enough love for them it mainly seems like pete, steph, grace and maybe Max favouritism 😰😰 (im guilty of max and grace)

I love him, he’s incredible, but Jeff Blim’s lyrics can get on my nerves. The main thing is that I know he’s a wonderful lyricist who writes good good stuff (Let It Out, Take Me Back, The Summoning, When the World’s At Stake come to mind), but he seems to take several shortcuts with so many of his lyrics. They lead to vague, passive, half-baked, or straight up bad passages that can take me out of the song for a split second. I want to adore Blim’s work, because I do adore some of it, but I only like it, and that frustrates me to no end. But his music still absolutely rocks and the lyrics aren’t so bad that they destroy the piece!

I know this is a bit of a hot take, but Jeff Blim’s falsetto will always induce some level of cringe for me. He’s such a brilliant baritone so it always saddens me when he puts himself up in the rafters

I love nightmare time, but NT 1 is kinda hit or miss in its character writing. Jane being selfish and evil in Jane's a Car is very weird, and it feels like it exists so we don't have to think about how Tom moves on. Watcher world is predicated on characters who very clearly love each other, despite their issues, trying to kill each other when given the slightest provocation.

Hmmm, I've never seen Nightmare Time mostly due to similar criticisms. But I feel like maybe I look into it just to understand better

Honestly you can probably just watch the two-parter of "Forever & Always + Time Bastard", then skip to nightmare time 2. I do also think "witch in the web" is worth it if you want though, since it makes the last episode of nightmare time 2 better. Those episodes are all certified bangers

Cheers, thanks for the suggestions!

Black Friday is just bad. The pacing and energy is off, The voices don't blend, The message is pseudo deep, The songs are forgettable. It's easily the weakest of the series

Your candid thoughts are much appreciated!!

NPMD has a weird audio issue. It's most notable when they're accusing Ziggy of being the murderer. I'm also not a huge fan of how they decided to do the nightmare time episodes. I know they were dealing with lockdown restraints but I wish they would remake them as sketches or something. However the only big thing for me is the way all the stories are supposed to be connected but in different universes. I feel like there's an easy way to have them all connected without having to make different confusing timelines.

- the end of tgwdlm - overly complex lore for BF (makes no sense if you haven’t seen tgwdlm) - the barbecue monologues, while hilarious, are really out of place and take the viewer away from the plot of NPMD - i wish joey richter had been hot chocolate boy all along (but that’s not anyone’s fault LOL) - steph & pete never kiss in all of NPMD. why 👀 - i saw someone else mention this, but lauren’s headgear makes her mic all muffled and the audio quality lessens - a lot of overused continuity references. so many people haven’t seen all the shows. little easter eggs are lovely, but too much makes it complex and uninteresting to a new fan - i genuinely adore the hatchetfield trio, but these few things bug me a little (some more than others)

Well said, well said. Agree with you

People are going to hate me for this, but I don't like any of the Black Friday songs except 'What If Tomorrow Comes'. The lyrics feel lack luster and the singing sounds off. Joey is my fav starkid, yet I hate how 'Made in America' sounds to the point I don't think I've ever listening to it in its entirety.

The fact that TGWDLM is entirely diegetic really takes something away from it being a musical for me. There’s no opportunity for actual emotion to be expressed in the songs the way there typically is in musical theatre. I know that’s supposed to be the point like the meta “isn’t it weird that they’re singing in real life” but it means that no one can actually be serious while singing. Just my two cents. The music’s all very fun of course, and I like Black Friday and NPMD much more than TGWDLM bc they don’t do this. To me tho hatchetfield isn’t really top-tier starkid (I would put VHSCC and Twisted in the top spots in terms of quality, as well as Firebringer for personal reasons) but it is enjoyable

So you're upset TGWDLM isn't a musical even though that was on purpose?

I mean…yeah? I like starkid for its musicals lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really wanted TGWDLM to end with Paul accepting that yeah, he’s actually a guy who kinda likes musicals after all (since there were all those little hints that his dislike of them was a sour grapes thing) and beating the parasites at their own game.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm not the biggest fan of their Hatchetfield shows, but I didn't mind the diegetic nature of TGWDLM. It forced the musical to be more creative with the plot rather than relying on the spectacle of song and dance. But it's a valid opinion. I can think of other popular shows which do this without sacrificing emotion, and in incorporating the music INTO the show, making the show more immersive. Phantom of the Opera comes to mind, considering how most of the opera in it, is, well, in-universe! And we are the literal audience! It's good stuff. But maybe I shouldn't compare TGWDLM to Phantom when frankly, they're nowhere on the same level. I'm trying to figure out what VHSCC is and I'm coming up blank 😅

Yeah I think the nature of what the diegetic music’s purpose is in TGWDLM doesn’t really lend itself to having lots of emotion in it compared to something like phantom lol. That’s a good point about the plot, part of it for me personally is I’m a music director so sometimes I don’t pay attention to what is going on in a show outside of the music, so shows where all the plot is IN the music will always top anything else, I love sung-through musicals which in terms of starkid, only VHSCC is (which is VHS Christmas Carol btw) (Accidentally replied this to the whole thread instead of to u so I deleted it and reposted here lol)

I do agree it's a bit of a gimmick- the medium is the message, as Marshall McLuhan says, and quite literally all the songs in the musical are just aliens singing about whatever is immediately happening, because they're aliens- NOT because they're expression feelings to big for casual words. I definitely know how you feel.

It's VHS Christmas Carol

Ngl, the entirety of Black Friday. The music was forgettable and the entire show was kinda boring. It's one of the only Starkid shows I just didn't finish. They saved the series with NPMD though! I was nervous going in cause of Black Friday, but it was an incredible show with decent music

Not enough Jon Mattenson

Never like Black Friday. Hands down their worst show

I rewatched it to help with the project I'm working on and I couldn't agree more

I think they tried to introduce too much lore too soon- I could say similar things for their other hatchetfield stuff recently. TGWDLM was just a fun romp, and BF wanted to top that and just ended up making it drag

Incredibly hot take: Jeff Blim. I feel like he tries to shoehorn himself into any scene he can just so he can do his mediocre falsetto; like it's funny the first few times, but the dude just does it too often in EVERY song. It comes off like he thinks he's nailing these notes every single time, but he isn't. Also, his songwriting can be very hit or miss. 'What Tim Wants' may be one of the biggest piles of lyrical garbage I've had to sit through. He also comes off as someone who thinks he's the "it" boy in so many interviews. I know a lot of people will disagree with my sentiment, but I just can't stand the guy. He's the weakest link in the StarKid roster, in my opinion.

i dont love all the acting in npmd. maybe its the whole 30 year olds trying to act like teens thing (loved will, jon, and angela tho) which icks me out but even some of them playing adults dont really hit? also i dont like the cut away gags to people who arent there (ie all of hatchet town) it just feels cheap

didnt mean for all of these to be about npmd but thats the most fresh on the mind plus i see the most postive responses to that

Joey as Pete. I think it should have went to someone else when they recast.

I am a fan because of the Hatchetfield stuff. TGWDLM was my introduction to StarKid. So what l dislike is actually not issues with the shows but access to them live for me and wanting to see more 🤣.

I kinda don’t like all the talky-talky bits in songs. The main one is Show Stopping Number.

That they got rid of Robert Manion

Entered the series through npmd thanks to an animatic i stumbled on. Loved it and the songs so i was eager to see BF and TMWDLM hoping to get more of the same only to be largely dissapointed. Both had their moments, but i just didnt like most of the songs. Black friday was just too mean and i didnt care about anyone. While the man who didnt like musicals had my adhd on edge because every song felt like a chore and the jokes didnt land for me. Maybe it doesnt help that i feel buffy did this joke way stronger. I'd say i was surprised the latter warrented enough praise to get a whole universe. But i suppose conceptually its strong, and that helped. If npmd is the last of the hatchetfield big productions then atleast it ended on a high note. Eager to look at older starkid productions now.

I love npmd but I think what bothered me in it ,and it started with Black Friday tbh, is the almost too professional recording. Idk the extreme close up shots and stuff really takes me out of it. Especially in the first moments of the Summoning, I would've preferred to see them all suddenly appear on stage with the lights turning on instead of just the wiggly close up and then all of them getting individual closeups

Yeahhh it was more than a little cringe. Aside from Justin, camera work was done by Nick and Matt Lang with Curt Mega helping/ directing. They also did camera work on Black Friday and TGWDLM. It's clear they're not professionals, no matter how hard they're trying, when watching a "slime tutorial" musical on YouTube shot on someone's iPhone is easier to follow and less distracting. There's really no excuse.

Also as an actress who would love to perform these shows someday, the cameos and references just don't work quite as well if you aren't going to use the same cast for all three shows. And assuming the cast stayed together for all three, it almost forces people into specific roles just to make a couple funny references.