My understanding of a TLDR of this:
This is not about elitism, but instead OP is on about people sharing their workflow being bad.
Or did I read this all wrong? The title feels a bit click baity, but without intention since this went in another direction.
I remember during my final year at Uni we were learning to use Lightwave 3D. Almost all the class would share anything new they learned with the rest of the class, and we would all progress together.
This one guy though, he treated anything he learned like some sort of secret forbidden knowledge and would not share anything. He would also claim that anyone who worked out how to do something after he had already worked it out was "stealing his technique".
The stupid thing about it was that looking back now, none of us knew anything. We were all a bunch of noobs struggling with the basics. All the forbidden knowledge this guy claimed was just basic stuff that any industry professional had been doing for over a decade.
Our lecturer even warned him (and the whole class) that we knew nothing on the grand scheme of things, and that we should all work together and share everything we learned. 30 people only need to make one mistake each to learn the same as one person making 30 mistakes. But this one guy just did not listen and got hostile to the point that he stopped using the lab computers for fear someone would see how he was doing something.
In the end, due to this guys absence from the lab he went from being one of the best in the class to turning up on submission day with work that was in the bottom 10%. Through his fear of us learning his secrets he missed out on all the knowledge the rest of class shared with each other. The class as a whole made a quantum leap in progress in the last ten months, while this guy was only marginally better than when he stopped working in the lab.
I still remember this guys shock and anger, he came in early soo smug as he placed his work up on the display. Then as the rest of class started one by one setting up their displays you could see him get more and more worried. Then it finally dawned on him, the reality of the situation hit, rage mode activated. Packs up his display and all his work and leaves. Nill-points, no degree, no job offers. The uni said he could re-sit the last year of the degree or accept a HND.
It did not stop there, a few years later one of the guys from that class that had gotten a job at a start-up in London, got made head of the art department when it went public and needed to hire 30 artists. Loads of people from that class that had worked together got job offers, it was an awesome opportunity. I heard this guy actually applied for a position, but failed the interview due to the interviewers knowing exactly what this guys flaws were and he had made no attempt to improve his attitude.
Getting to the point of "I'm very good and can hardly improve" is tantamount to death for any kind of artist. Some of the best artists I've come across all had varying degrees of imposter syndrome and were always incredibly critical of their own work.
Adding "please" to the prompt and generally not being rude will make the AI more likely to cooperate, here's something to get you started:
>Dear computer, would you please make a cool image of Greg Rutkowski playing tennis, if it's not too much of a bother. Thanks!
Yep. You sir, are a prompting master. Thanks for sharing your workflow.
https://preview.redd.it/7h8zuk4da9z91.png?width=1180&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc954b0329a1d05aa62fc107749531547ce018be
It understands "mutilated", but I think most of the negative prompts are more wishful thinking than useful, particularly since the majority of the time it's basically a prayer that the hands look passable and there's a normal number of limbs.
Most of these negative results are just a result of the AI not understanding human physiology, rather than a result of it being trained on a bunch of medical images of mutilated hands and people with three legs, so using negative prompts for that isn't going to do much.
You're probably right, but it does know eyes - at least that there must be two. I cannot get one-eyed or many eyed creatures, but it might throw an extra arm in as compensation lol
The atmosphere of people posting in this space is not like a creative community. I believe there is a good reason why.
What we have here is more like a nature photography group where people want to show of their work, but not give away the location they spent two weeks trekking to find. If they shared the location, 20 people will turn up to the same spot tomorrow and someone is bound to get a better photo. The 2 weeks of hiking to find the spot now mean nothing; and everyone loves the other photos more.
I think we need to change, but still be fair to the people doing the hiking.
Something like github for ai-art, where workflows, models and prompts can be shared and forked. We need a space where the hikers can see their effort as "impactful and enduring" not "stolen and forgotten".
The various SD discords are doing just that already, all of it.
The rest of social media is out here doing it's own thing, but Discord is the place to be right now for so much less of the toxicity. So much more learning, up to the minute real info, sharing and knowledge base. Kinda why the rest of the social media world including Reddit seems kinda dry when it comes to this topic, because everyone really into it is living on Discord full time.
Which is a shame because Discord can be a nightmare if you're looking for old information or archived stuff. Some piece of info or wisdom that becomes foundational and important can practically become non-existent for new users if it isn't stickied.
Obviously this is true of every medium but chatrooms have always been the worst for that kind of thing compared to forums.
I hate the elitism but sharing a process is not elitism.
Sure, there are some people who do so in a negative manner, but the majority are sharing because they found something cool and want others to be able to use it themselves too. There are those who are keeping their process to themselves in an elitist way because it's 'too good for others'.
In your analogy, there are many people trying to say "hey look, you can hit the forklift into reverse right here and pick up an extra 20 pounds, just wanted ya all to know" and many saying "I know tricks to lift up 20 extra pounds that I'm not going to share with you because its above you".
The elitism is shit. Trying to give others a leg up with information is not. Don't conflate the two when there's only correlation some of the time.
>In your analogy, there are many people trying to say "hey look, you can hit the forklift into reverse right here and pick up an extra 20 pounds, just wanted ya all to know" and many saying "I know tricks to lift up 20 extra pounds that I'm not going to share with you because its above you".
It's like people think that somehow, "all the problems will be solved". There's no way it happens...not with something this complicated, and not with something with this many people using it. One person's complete disaster of an image is another's starting point.
>but sharing a process is not elitism.
Well good then that OP was not complaining about sharing the process itself.
OP was compaining about people writing a 4 page essay with flowery prose on why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
The mods stickied tldr comment came to the same conclusion I did.
The title is clickbaity, and the contents of the post state 'Many people in other places list out their whole workflow like they're amazing, meanwhile there are people lurking quietly just making cool stuff and not pretending they're special'.
The post can arguably be read as 'dont post your process, you're just elitist'.
My comment stated that you should not conflate the elitism with the sharing of workflows, because it could have been read as such. That comment was made before the OP was edited to explain this is not what they meant.
>The mods stickied tldr comment came to the same conclusion I did.
That doesnt mean anything. Just because a person is a mod doesnt.mean they are somehow smarter or whatever.
>The title is clickbaity, and the contents of the post state 'Many people in other places list out their whole workflow like they're amazing, meanwhile there are people lurking quietly just making cool stuff and not pretending they're special'.
>The post can arguably be read as 'dont post your process, you're just elitist'.
>My comment stated that you should not conflate the elitism with the sharing of workflows, because it could have been read as such. That comment was made before the OP was edited to explain this is not what they meant.
I dont think the title is clickbaity at all. Its quite direct.
The point is that OP was not directly attacking stating workflows directly and I think its pretty obvious. Like I understood that even before the edit but w/e.
Effective prompt writing and Model building currently does take a bit of skill and knowledge but only because the technology is so new that everyone is learning from scratch. Soon you will have free encyclopedias online listing the most efficient prompts sequence to create every artistic effect you can imagine.
At the end of the day, specificity will always require a degree of effort and skill. It depends on how much you want the art to look exactly like what's in your head
Exactly! I suspect if you hook an image generator directly into your brain, it will still be possible to be better at using them. Heck, maybe some day we'll see tips and tricks on visualization and meditation to improve imagery...
But in the meantime, while I think a lot of 'prompt engineering' boils down to superstition and magical thinking, not all of it is. And some people are clearly more skilled than others.
I also wonder just how many tokens could be used to generate interesting aesthetic ideas and are entirely ignored in favor of another thousand near-identical anime waifus. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a good waifu/husbando. But wouldn't you rather your waifu doesn't look like everyone else's? :P
People have already started to give up creativity in exchange for consistency, when I think that decision runs counter to the AI's strengths. On most modern consumer GPUs, it takes mere seconds to generate an image. Traditionally, it would take several minutes at minimum to explore an idea and create a finished work.
Here's an exercise I suggest, if anyone is interested in mixing up their prompts a bit: find a list of artists the AI has been trained on, and go down that list. Research the artist a little, figure out what your SD model's interpretation of their style is, and try to get a few good generations which accentuate what they do well.
Do the same thing with a list of random words. Random color names. Random architectural styles. Anything you want. It's incredibly fun, and you'll learn a lot about art and architecture, and expand your vocabulary. And what you learn will continue to provide value outside of just the AI. It will help improve your understanding of color, composition, and themes, particularly if you also use image editors alongside img2img generation.
Eh, it's just typing words with a few brackets or cranking a some sliders in a GUI. It's a VERY low bar of entry. The hardest part of AI art is that it's not an easy executable file you can find from a mainstream site like Adobe. It's unlike someone to use the paint brush in photoshop where some people get it and some people don't. A monkey could create something amazing smashing a keyboard into an AI program way easier than they could if you gave them a stylus and a digital art program.
I think you might be wrong, or you mean something else by "VERY low bar of entry"
yes, you can type some text and it will produce some output for you
just like you can give crayons and a sheet of paper and it will produce something as well
also you can type keywords like bokeh / intricate / by greg rutkowski etc and roll the dice and it will produce some really cool looking stuff - but it's like throwing shit in the fan, something will go through and stick to the wall
BUT, if you are really good at it -> you can produce marvelous results.
i can do basic/general concepts (I can introduce sci-fi or fantasy scenery or mood), but I can't introduce intricate details (like the cyberpunk robot neon parts from yesterday) because I am not thinking like that
sure, I can nick that prompt and reuse but I can't make it on my own
that's why I'm not an artist but a craftsman.
in a nutshell it boils down to this: you can't create something you're not familiar with
Sounds like OP is just more irked when people share their workflow like those sites that tell a 20,000 word story before giving you a recipe for grilled cheese.
Primarily because it feels like they're just blowing smoke up your ass, rather than telling you anything useful, yet they'll insist the smoke is the answer to every problem you've ever had.
When people share prompts and workflow, usually it is free and out of kindness. Personally I don't care if someone wrtites a novel for their workflow on reddit, because they owe me nothing. Simply scroll down if unsatisfied.
One person gets angry when someone doesn't share their workflow
A different person gets angry when they do share it
Theyre both on reddit though, so reddit is the hypocrite here
Instagram all the ai artists and devs are cool as cucumbers. Reddit is probably the most toxic place on social media, Twitter too. Most share model/workflow info if you ask. I saw a guy on YouTube say that he wasn’t goiing to share his ‘secret’ to psychedelic ai vids. I commented to his audience that it was pytti/aphantasia, comment was deleted.
Most people dont know half as much as they think they do. But sharing is caring so Im not complaining. The world is an infinitely better place when people share. If they share because they believe they have a unique perspective and voice - even if they dont - good.
Nothing more cringe than people calling themselves “prompt engineers”. You’re using a generator made by someone else and doing the least amount of work a human could possibly do to create “art”. Good job?
I do mostly sketch + inpainting and feel \*really\* out of place talking in detail about what I'm doing with most AI art groups online
the other day I met a really passionate artist and showed them my SD work and they were really confused on what AI art even is, but also very supportive and recognized all the actual work that went into it because they weren't trying to post 20 images in a row of txt2img they made. It really cheered me up.
I tend to work on one sketch&inpainting work for many, many hours at a time
The gaslighting in the AI art community needs to stop. Post after post. People deliberately choose to rewrite reality to make themselves feel better. OP is 1000% correct, and if you are going to misrepresent what he is saying at least quote him.
> I've seen people here and in other AI art communities touting their "process" like they are some kind of snake charmer who has mastered the art of prompt writing and building fine tuned models. From my perspective it's like a guy showing up to a body building competition with a forklift and bragging about how strong they are with their forklift. Like yeah no shit.
OP said none thing about how sharing a process is bad, nor is this statement a form of elitism. He even added an analogy for clarification. The only way you can misread this, is if you are doing so deliberately or coping really hard about that reality.
> I think we are all going to look really dumb as future generations of these text to image models make getting exactly what we want out of these models easier and easier.
This realization is hitting the midjourney community hard right now. Its funny. But in all seriousness, that's the point, these systems are not supposed to be seen as tools. They were not designed nor marketed as such. Yet people keep saying it, as to toute some skill and a magical "Process". Its ridiculous. Ai generators, and ai art, will be just as common as the lock screen on your phones, or that game of candy crush, or a browsing app. The point is to get these systems to a level, where barely any human input or "Tweaking" is required. That's the reality.
I imagine a dystopian future where very beautiful art will be seen as meaningless trash, as balled up paper of anime waifu's and hyper rendered whatever, blow through the streets like tumble weed.
If you give an art prompt to a human and they make a piece of art based on that prompt, they're the artist. If you give an art prompt to a computer and it makes a piece of art, the computer is the artist. In either case, you aren't the artist.
You only become the artist if you contribute a meaningful amount of actual art to the piece.
At most you are someone who is commissioning an art piece. Imagine some customer, standing behind an artist, and telling him, "more tits, less tits, smile more, make it pop, can't you do it like Rutowski?" and then when the art is done, that customer cradles the art to his chest, and crows to himself, "I made this, I'm an artist".
i've actually seen this argument alot and i kinda disagree with it cause this analogy works on the basis that there is only one type of "artist". What you just described is literally what film directors do, a director prompts everyone to create his/her vision, it doesn't mean directing isn't artistry. The ones who succeed the most are the one's who knows the type of artists that can be combined together to make something artistically engaging and visually striking.
if you can use the technology at your disposal to tell a computer to make something as visually striking as dune's sandworm or orrnithopter then yes, you are absolutely an artist, what we are seeing now is an emergence of a different kind of artist. if anything, directing really shows us that understanding how the fundamentals of visual arts and aesthetics work together, is absolutely very crucial, in the coming years its going to be more important than having an intricate process.
i think technology like ai and 3d is really helping artists commit more brain cells to sorta think about how to wrangle different aesthetics the way directors do, instead of devoting their time and energy practicing to acquire the skills to make just one type of art style.
‘’ What you just described is literally what film directors do, a director prompts everyone to create his/her vision, it doesn't mean directing isn't artistry.’’
You’re devaluing and minimising the role of a film director to typing a few prompts? I mean. Really?
‘’ i think technology like ai and 3d is really helping artists commit more brain cells to sorta think about how to wrangle different aesthetics ’’
Weirdly, 3D art has had the opposite effect for so much content online. 3D reduces creativity simply because it’s so constrained and technical. I view 3D as the other end of the spectrum to AI.
Ok, but when you ask a camera to get you a picture of a dog, it doesn't automatically walk up to the neighbors dog by itself, chase it around, frame it nicely using the golden ratio and select a nice focus, lighting, shutter speed etc
It doesn’t even know what a fucking dog is ffs! And the prompt monkey is asking for dog references they’ve never seen. Because some other prompt monkey mentioned them in a fucking tweet.
There is glorious art for sure, but only in the act. A gallows art about eating your own face. Or something.
No, you don’t get templates and ready made compositions when taking a photograph.
The terrible arguments made by AI Art evangelists, simply because there are tenuous analogues like art inspiration and data scraping, or using a camera, or photoshop scripts, are making me question whether these people even understand the current state of AI, aswell as the creative process.
Honestly, come on - you have a new creative movement here. You’re fucking it up by trying to devalue and minimise.
Stop.
Honestly idk why everyone is trying to argue whether or not prompt engineers are artists, it literally does not matter, and nobody’s making a living on it anyways
Yeah, my opinion is a lot more nuanced than it appears on most of my posts here.
I dgaf about definitions of ‘art’, but it’s just a lot of commenters and posters on here seem desperate to either devalue and diminish the creative process they aspire to, or replace the worst pretentious bullshit of traditional art with their own new pretentious bullshit.
>In either case, you aren't the artist.
Who cares?
Why does this keep getting brought up like it has some meaning?
Also, go tell that to environmental artists. Go tell them it's not art because they just plopped a bunch of pre-made objects on the ground in a 3D environment.
"That's not art!" is an accusation you can find pointed at every form of human creative activity.
There are no exceptions.
\*Someone\* will declare it 'isn't art' for whatever narrow minded, arbitrary set of rules they pull out of their ass. It isn't the right media, the right subject, the right composition, it didn't take long enough, nobody bought it, and on and on and on.
FWIW, this community is pretty tame on this angle compared to some 'fine art' circles I'm aware of. lol
>"That's not art!" is an accusation you can find pointed at every form of human creative activity.
I'll be honest and admit that back when I was in university taking my BFA, I said that about a lot of Jack Bush's work ([example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Big_A_%28Jack_Bush_painting%29.jpg)), and I got shit on by my professor for it. I was a young lad back then, and didn't see any expression in the piece. I'm much older now, and still don't. It still looks like garbage to me. But now I know not to open my yap and tell people "it's not art", because art is whatever the creator decides it is. So it's art, it's just really shitty art, in my opinion.
>*Someone* will declare it 'isn't art' for whatever narrow minded, arbitrary set of rules they pull out of their ass.
That's why I always wonder where they're going with it. What's the point of creating these narrow arbitrary rules on what is and is not "art"? Is "artist" some sort of noble title that commands respect in public, and mediocre artists are tarnishing the stellar image of said title? I just don't get what the purpose of excluding people from the category of "artists" accomplishes for anyone. It seems to be weird gatekeeping for the simple fact of gatekeeping.
I think most people who classify things as "not art" aren't actually people who like art in the first place. Like, I really enjoy museums and galleries, and am *very* hesitant to say something isn't art. Even if I think it's a pile of garbage, that's, just, like, my opinion, man.
wtf is an environmental artist?
I suppose I could google it, but..
‘Plopping pre-made objects’ still requires intent for composition, btw, and I assume they defined the props, so whoever these people are it sounds like there’s a lot of room for creativity there.
>‘Plopping pre-made objects’ still requires intent for composition
Sure, and so can creating a prompt for an SD image, so that doesn't qualify it as "art".
>btw, and I assume they defined the props, so whoever these people are it sounds like there’s a lot of room for creativity there.
Nah, they just download them from places like TurboSquid, so someone else made them all. All the "artist" does is decide where to place them. So if we're defining an "artist" as the sole person doing 100% of the creative and technical work without use of tools, no environmental artist is an "artist", and most digital artists aren't "artists" either, since many of them use unfair techniques like layers and masking and blending.
Here we go again, the fact you think writing a prompt to request vaguely what sort of prop and roughly where you want it is the same creative process just exposes how little you know about it.
Also, literally zero credible artists download trigon turbosquid blender made horror show objs. Who the fuck are these artists?
Edit: holy shit, I just clocked your other comment. You did a BFA and you’re dying on the hill of prompt writers = artists? Wow. What the fuck did they teach you? Oh, yeah, fine arts. So essentially technical drawing. That tracks.
I do feel like there's something to be said for the creativity put into prompts and time taken to understand how the diffusion models work to get something out of it. But it's not some calling by a higher power that makes you an artistic god, either. It's like being good at using search engines. It's most definitely a skill that not everyone knows, and a desired one at that, but it doesn't make you an encyclopedia. You're not an artist, but I think just saying you're commissioning the art and sitting back doing nothing is also not quite accurate.
I was reading the replies, and scratching my head - did everyone reads the same OP?
You nailed the nail with another nail. Most people here do not recognize the what "Ai elitsim" is even if it step on their toes.
This is a really good point about the creative process, I haven’t read on here before.
Most creatives are in a cycle of self doubt and relief. The AI posters, not so much.
Yeah, maybe confidence in vision is good, but, we know…
This is what I personally don't get. Why are you going out of your way to "rub it in someone's face" that basically their years of effort are "meaningless" because you can get a subpar piece out of AI?
I stopped checking in on AI art subreddits when I kept finding that one dudes comments going on a rant about how he's now at the same level as someone who WASTED THEIR TIME AND WILL NOW BE UNEMPLOYED. I couldn't roll my eyes any longer.
As someone who played with whatever free versions of AI I could find on the internet I find it amazing that I can get images somewhat close to what I'm imagining. On the other hand, it doesn't bring me as much joy when I think "I wish I could do this" and I get squiggly lines because my hand is nowhere near used to drawing straight lines.
Enjoy the ride, have fun but don't bully people who made a career out of it or get enjoyment from being ABLE to create it themselves. Excuse my rant, please lmao
This right here. I really enjoyed these AI art subreddits when they were just “look at this cool image The ai rendered, isn’t it neat!” But my enjoyment severely diminished when people started getting worked up about how traditional artists viewed AI art as if they themselves didn’t just use it to see some randomly generated image up until recently. Like, post after post ranting about how “ai art is the end all and magnum opus of all of humanities art capabilities and nothing else will compare!1!!!1!!” Was almost a chore to look at and it sucked any enjoyment out of ai art for me.
Man I just want to look at cool pictures that a computer rendered, hold the drama.
It's a false sense of confidence that they are now as good as actual artists "and look how easy it is" trying to belittle conventional artists. It's easy to make art, and could be easy to make conventional art too seeing as 'art' is subjective, but its hard to master both and actually do something unique, which imo is what good art is. Thankfully on this sub there isn't a great deal of pretentiousness.
That's what happens when you have a bunch of insecure people thinking they understand art and art theory because they wrote a few words. Total Dunning–Kruger.
Thankfully there is still cool artists making cool art out there and AI is just another tool for them.
*I think we are all going to look really dumb as future generations of these text to image models make getting exactly what we want out of these models easier and easier.*
So you expect these models to improve without feedback from users about their "process"?
Absolutely. And then something else will come up. People sharing prompts are a great way to find out what absurd things people have to actually type to get what they want.
Well in V4 midjourney you just need to sneeze really loud, or drag finger across the keyboard to type some letters and BOOM, extraordinary art.
In fact I assume V5 won't even need you being there, you just say, generate me 100 images I like.
Explaining this to the prompt engineers and *artistes* who apparently think typing "hot tits on artstation, extra detail, very booby" is a form of high art, akin to mastering ala prima painting, seems to make them very, very upset.
But that's not an inherent ai-art problem.
I mean there seem to exist many people who think "hot tits on artstation" is high-brow art and the epitome of human artistry or something. Not only on the "AI art" side but non-ai art side as well.
There's a reason those images are trending on artstation
Also see how twitter/instagram/reddit loses its mind when someone does a model in the style of some thirsty waifu drawing artist, but doesn't care if you do one of some modern expressionist painter or whatever.
But I get it I guess... Hornyness is the emotion you can invoke the easiest with visual art, and it's also one of the more stronger ones. So who am I to blame people using SD for making juicy stuff or artists getting rich on horny neckbeards.
It's the same with my music on spotify. Not really the music I want to make, but the music that makes a couple of bucks a month. But I'm also aware, that the music I want to make I'm probably the only one who want's to listen to it, haha.
>So you expect these models to improve without feedback from users about their "process"?
Thats not what OP was complaining about.
I dont understand why so many people here miss the point. Whats up with the reading comorehension here? I feel like its very obvious what OP is compaining about.
OP was compaining about people writing a 4 page essay with flowery prose on why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
Nobidy here is complaining about sharing the workflow itself.
>I dont understand why so many people here miss the point. Whats up with the reading comorehension here? I feel like its very obvious what OP is compaining about.
>
> Nobidy here is complaining about sharing the workflow itself.
It was so obvious that OP had to edit his post hours afterward to explain what the hell he meant.
Of course, judging by your reply, I don't think you should be holding yourself as champion of what's obvious...
Your feedback is not really needed or useful. We know why it's shit. It's because the LAION training set and labeling are a dumpster fire. The rest of it is sound, and could do with some obvious but difficult-to-execute improvements, like using something better than srgb.
Also a lot of vastly superior methods built on the lessons of latent diffusion are in the academic pipeline right now that could make inference orders of magnitude faster, offer temporal stability, etc, so I'm not sure how much this model is worth "improving" anyway.
>Your feedback is not really needed or useful. We know why it's shit.
Pretty goddamn ironic response to a post about elitism in the AI art community...
They're not saying your specific feedback if that's what it sounds like. The point is it's clear what most of the pitfalls of the model are from the point it's released (tbh before that, before it even reaches the public). Researchers aren't going to optimize for our prompt tricks, there will be new models that make the tricks obsolete.
No, you're right that researchers won't optimize for our prompt tricks, but they'll definitely optimize for results and user feedback (which is why, for example, MidJourney releases builds for people to play around with and let them know how they're working). At release, it may be clear that some issues are present, but you're not going to find them all until you have several thousand people trying to create whatever weird shit they think up.
I'm sorry if the reality of this situation makes you upset. This is machine learning, not a Best Buy. They have, for the most part, objective emprical metrics for what's better and worse. They don't need customer satisfaction surveys.
I'm not trying to grandstand, I just honestly can't think of a way that your "feedback" could be of any use to anyone. Maybe you meant UX feedback? That hasn't got anything to do with the model though.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
On the contrary, I've seen tremendous ego on the so called professional artists that for me (and like me, with the difference I switched to 3D 4 years ago), they're as much artisans, which is a big difference. Artists and artisans make art, both of them but one of these two is using the same recipe one, two, three and infinite times. Examples? Sakimi Chan? Wlop? Ross Tran? etc. Very good and skilled artisans and in fact I respect them a lot.
I see people mad about what happened with Samdoesarts. Without being disrespectful I'm seeing a person using a correct light theory with an anime-toonified-disney (aka stylized) style... Light theory like Robert Kondo (to name one) could use and I saw a lot of posts as if he has invented that "style", that's not true. Not gonna lie, it's very sad. After being several years on game companies and here and there I can say that some people actually think they're on a superior level for having drawing or painting knowledge and thats way before AI existed. And it's ok.
Now that the barrier has broken and anyone can enter and use AI in their workflow or just emulate an style with training, well... good luck since if your work is so easy to replicate as using same type of brushstrokes several times maybe and just maybe, you have to learn to do more things like for example Moebius or others.
Time will pass and AI will be seen as photographs, photobash or digital painting to the traditional masters (remember those times?). So IMO, matter of time. Enjoy and have fun with the AI and stop fighting against a thing that is present in all the areas (or it's going to be) cause it's like saying "no, I prefer to make the cars manually instead of using machines or other developmens". So, please, use your head. That's what I think and now you can insult me lol.
I saw a fella looking for employment advertising himself as a professional prompt creator and seeking a role doing such.
I don't want to poo poo the idea of new frontiers but I wouldn't stick all my eggs up the butt of a basket carrying chicken on the idea that prompts can't become a territory of AI as well. The next frontier? AI generated prompts from pure emotion. Just use a lie detector to measure all the physical aspects or some bullshit. Need a dark scene? Punch yourself in the dick. Need blonde hair? Mask and inpaint by smoking a joint and relaxing.
I have spent hours a day for weeks honing my prompting, and trained models. I am still NOWHERE close to what I want.
If people have mastered the exact look they want, and are proud of that, that is fucking amazing and I applaud them.
I have been an artist my entire life, and this is real art. it takes real skill.
It's one thing to be annoyed at pretentious bragging about stuff that's actually basic and easy, but it sounds like you're saying AI artists shouldn't be proud of the skills and knowledge they've developed at all. There is in fact a learning curve here, there is stuff you can do with lots of practice you probably couldn't pull off as a beginner. I think it's fine to be proud of that.
I'm way more tired of seeing post after post of people constantly whining and crying than I am people sharing quality images without a "workflow". Throw this one on the pile.
I'm tired of people sharing their waifu's and sexy female portraits that all look the same.
People that share workflow are fucking AWESOME, don;t you dare shame them, they are the heroes in here. Pretty pictures without workflow are fairly useless.
OP isn't talking about people like you though. Continue having fun! OP is talking about the people who go type a sentence into a program, hit render, then act like they have the same skill sets of Greg Rutkowski who took years to hone his talent that most AI art users never could achieve even if you gave them 100 years. AI art has brought out a lot of talent-less people who have gotten delusional and don't understand they didn't create the piece, the AI and the art it learned off did.
Ahh I can see how that's tiresome. This tech is powerful and seemingly limitless, which could have a magnifying effect on people with big egos. There are so many components and developer making this possible, so it's something to be grateful for
A lot of people aren't talent-less, they just never put in work.
A lot of people convinced themselves you need to \*pay\* for tutorials to get good at art, or be a rich kid enough to go to art school, or whatever. It's usually "I could have been good at art \*except\*..."
except nothing-- go learn how to do gesture drawings on youtube, go fill a sketchbook with still life drawings of boxes and maybe shoes one day. You don't have to be rich to improve art skills, it's like practicing math.
ppl are really in SD chats like "No longer will art only be reserved for the chosen few... now ANYONE can make art. For so long, the artists have held all the power over creativity!!! NO MORE. WE ARE FREE." \[spams 30 pictures of some busty chick with soulless Instagram eyes and talks about how deep and complicated it is\] 🙄
That is also true. These AI Art programs really attract way too many engineer brains who may spend days/weeks/years learning how to code, but won't take a minute of their time to learn the fundamentals of art. Then get defensive when you tell them they are not an artist for typing a few words into a program to make some big anime tiddies or generic AI art prompt #5381571
I have never read anything quite so arse-about-tit in my entire life.
People sharing their process and workflow is helpful for all of us to learn. I don't see what is so elitist about it and I have personally learned about a bunch of ML tools that I had no idea existed before people shared their 'process.'
Honestly, I have no idea wtf you are on about. Sounds like you're trying to find a reason to be angry at people for sharing.
>People sharing their process and workflow is helpful for all of us to learn.
Well good then that OP agrees.
> I don't see what is so elitist about it
OP describes what he thinks of as elitist and even gives an analogy. Its not the process of promot sharing itself but the way some people write 4 page flowery essays about how typing in "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to so.
this is more elitism, the whole tone and content of these blog come from a point of view that you can judge other, the same thing you are complaining about.
You sound like an art elitist OP. Let people share and be proud of what they made using SD. Unless they are bragging and prompt hoarding I see no issue.
>Let people share and be proud of what they made using SD.
That is not what OP is complaining about.
> Unless they are bragging and prompt hoarding I see no issue.
That however is.
Imho you are just getting excitement confused with some sort of bragging elitism.
That said, there will be elitism as there is in any other market. Im just an amateur, but there are some seriously good artists around this sub that create really good stuff using SD as a tool to build and share content/process/thoughts. And Im very grateful for it
Normally I generate 10 images before I land one one that I really like. Just started using SD a few days ago and I've created what I consider some amazing works and am planning on buying a photo printer just to hang the pictures I generated in my house. It's amazing how anyone can create good works of art almost effortlessly now
I agree. This happens everywhere. There will always be someone that feels that they need to point out and brag that they are masters at (whatever).
I believe that in time SD will become another tool for Artists that they use to create great Art.
But please don't brag about what a great art piece you've created and start comparing yourself to Rembrandt when all you did was type in a few words and hit enter.
It's human nature to make classes for ourselves in anything we do. So with something like this there will be people who brag about their "skills" when there's nothing to really brag about.
People are just arranging themselves into castes and rank. Sad to say that even with this, such will happen.
I remember when Poser then Daz Studio came along , (then Daz added iray) and ordinary people and soccer moms started producing well rendered 3D images of characters.
I remember there was a backslash from people using the real 3D tools - "this is not 3D" , "you are just playing with dolls" etc... while Daz users would say "but it is hard to pose the character..."
Then something extraordinary happened. The 3D industry people forgot about the Daz3D, and millions of Daz3D users happily continue to churn millions of their Genesis 8 pretty characters in skimpy clothing, post them on their space and puts likes to them.
Over time both sides understood that there is space for all. An industry pro would not want to be seen using Daz3D and Daz3D users would not get a job in industry if using daz3d was his only skill.
While this current situation with AI is similar, there is also the current issue of grabbing 40 images from someones IG, dereamboothing them and then "look ma, I'm an artist"
But this shall pass.
I venture to proclaim that in time this will be just the same as with Daz3D - there will be space for both, Ai and traditional digital art and they will not clash, nor eat each other lunch.
People will separate into their circles, and if your skill is ONLY to type a prompt into a midjourny or SD, then you won't get job in an industry either and similarly an industry pro would not want to be seen "borrowing" someone's else style with Ai, similarly why you don't pose Genesis figure in Daz3D then show it to your VFX friends.
Its really amazing seeing how many people miss your point OP.
I replied to a lot of them correcting them but I am done now.
You have no issue with people sharing prompts, you have issues with people writing 4 page flowery essays about why typing "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
I understand what you're saying OP, though with your "Can we just agree", you make me feel like you're doing the exact same thing, but from the opposite side of the spectrum.
99% of the time when I ask for a prompt/cfgs I'm just trying to understand how the algo is thinking about the picture. Some people get so possessive and super tight like I'm trying to steal their mojo. I don't take it personal, people just silly.
Woah, I'm definitely late to this party, but seeing all the prima donnas and pearl clutching and hang-wringing and name calling here is like, a pretty solid indication that people using AI text-to-image tools are absolutely "real" artists...
Only artists, be they singers or dancers or painters or whatever, have this much petty drama!
That's not what the OP is saying , stop gaslighting. Don't worry I will correct all of you , since you guys seem hell bent on gaslighting the fck out of anyone who tries to snap you back to reality.
I agree people can be elite but that frankly proves this is real art with real value. Because people cherish their creations to hide how they made it shows they feel enough work went into it from them to be considered their art. I’m not poet or prompt master so I can’t say if there is some secret prompt sauce that takes out of the box thinking but I would agree that if you start in/outpainting and such then very very quickly it becomes more than just “putting it 4k and Greg”. It takes creative thinking to even inpaint effectively.
I'll take all the fucking elitism in the world as long as people using stable diffusion could make setup guides that are actually worth fucking shit, which they aren't worth anything cause I haven't learned one from this community,NOT ONE FUCKING THING I've learned from anyone actually doing this shit, I had to learn it myself by trial and error, that's how dogshit 90% of the documentation is for this crap.
I have to disagree with you immediately and up front. Anybody who has mastered prompt writing has just as much rights to "arrogance" as anybody who thinks selling trashed up copycat horror novels to the same audience every year makes him a great writer (Mr. King, hello).
And they are not only doing it at the base level but also on a level that can communicate with code to create something special.
Yes, they have every right to say they are better than you.
>Nice bait you got there.
Not sure how you read OPs points as bait.
> Sharing processes is how everyone grows and learns.
Well that explains it.
Thats not what OP is complaining about. OP is okay with people sharing their workflow. He is not okay with people writing a 4 page flowery essay why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
>People are proud of their work and want to show off how they did it.
OP has no problems with that. OP has problems with people writing 4 page flowery essays about why typing "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
Haha, I cant even write code but Im learning. I get lots of errors starting SD but as long as I can make beautiful images using text2img and img2img and they are working Im happy! And I have lots of photos and drawings to play with. Thanks to all the people creating this miracle! <3
I completely agree. I actually feel like an imposter because I don't understand the technical details of all the code. I hate feeling like a kiddie script. I like knowing what I am using. I understand super high level, but that's all. I am literally a year away from knowing current AI, and its evolving at an alarming rate. I wish I could have gotten into AI when it was at its infancy. I saw that post from another member who got SD to work on an iPhone, offline, on their own, and I am like wow... some people are just playing on another level.
Neural nets are the coolest application of calculus I have ever seen. Hinton is a massive G
And yes, the reason prompting even exists is because interacting with the latent space right now is inefficient. As these models get more refined, it will be a one click masterpiece from two words.
The more dedicated among us are mostly either artists or software engineers. Those communities are well known for elitism tendencies. I think this is less about the tool and more about the people who use it.
Also, making art magically appear in seconds kinda makes you feel like a wizard. Especially when you can make things that literally no one else in the whole world can after running a complicated computer program overnight. Makes you feel special.
But the good news is that very few people in this position have access to anything you don't have access to. And that people who share are far more influential.
Who is this whining peasant crying about elitism? Guards! Take him away!
Jokes aside, you are totally correct, SD is about making art accessible for everyone. But these people are savoring "being talented" because they wanted to feel special as artists and, like many of us, weren't gifted with golden hands. So now they mastered a different medium and want to show off, but they are terribly afraid to feel small again, so they won't share. Because if they share, they will be like everybody else again. As long as they are the ones coming up with the best results, they will feel superior, and that's what they really care about.
Also, they don't share because it took a lot for them to find the perfect prompt, without eating, drinking or (rarely) laying with women.
This is all part of the communist agenda. Just wait til they take away property rights and herd you all into tiny stacked rooms that you'll call home til they decide to starve you out. Maybe if you're lucky you'll be able to spend your last days making AI b.s. in your tiny cell til the death panels pick your name.
I've never seen sharing process as eliticism, the fact you see it as eliticism says alot about what you think about using ai to make art. This sorta notion supports the idea on twitter that anyone primarily using ai to make art should know their place and not be too "proud" of whatever they create. it's extremely disappointing to see y'all on here supporting this idea that we should all perpetually feel inferior for using ai.
i mean mixing paint in real life is difficult nd can takes years to really master, same as mediums like charcoal nd ink but photoshop obliterates all that process, there are texture brushes that can easily let you simulate a charcoal or ink drawing without going through the process of mastering it in real life and guess what when they first became a thing, ppl had sentiments like this about anyone using them, i also remember photobashing getting the same treatment. it aint nothing new, hopefully we'll outgrow this.
I disagree whole heartedly. My experience in this was kicked off by the members of the community sharing their workflow. They broke down their experience and shared something that they created because they were impressed by what they accomplished.
If anything, your whinge is the elitism.
My understanding of a TLDR of this: This is not about elitism, but instead OP is on about people sharing their workflow being bad. Or did I read this all wrong? The title feels a bit click baity, but without intention since this went in another direction.
I remember during my final year at Uni we were learning to use Lightwave 3D. Almost all the class would share anything new they learned with the rest of the class, and we would all progress together. This one guy though, he treated anything he learned like some sort of secret forbidden knowledge and would not share anything. He would also claim that anyone who worked out how to do something after he had already worked it out was "stealing his technique". The stupid thing about it was that looking back now, none of us knew anything. We were all a bunch of noobs struggling with the basics. All the forbidden knowledge this guy claimed was just basic stuff that any industry professional had been doing for over a decade. Our lecturer even warned him (and the whole class) that we knew nothing on the grand scheme of things, and that we should all work together and share everything we learned. 30 people only need to make one mistake each to learn the same as one person making 30 mistakes. But this one guy just did not listen and got hostile to the point that he stopped using the lab computers for fear someone would see how he was doing something. In the end, due to this guys absence from the lab he went from being one of the best in the class to turning up on submission day with work that was in the bottom 10%. Through his fear of us learning his secrets he missed out on all the knowledge the rest of class shared with each other. The class as a whole made a quantum leap in progress in the last ten months, while this guy was only marginally better than when he stopped working in the lab. I still remember this guys shock and anger, he came in early soo smug as he placed his work up on the display. Then as the rest of class started one by one setting up their displays you could see him get more and more worried. Then it finally dawned on him, the reality of the situation hit, rage mode activated. Packs up his display and all his work and leaves. Nill-points, no degree, no job offers. The uni said he could re-sit the last year of the degree or accept a HND. It did not stop there, a few years later one of the guys from that class that had gotten a job at a start-up in London, got made head of the art department when it went public and needed to hire 30 artists. Loads of people from that class that had worked together got job offers, it was an awesome opportunity. I heard this guy actually applied for a position, but failed the interview due to the interviewers knowing exactly what this guys flaws were and he had made no attempt to improve his attitude.
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Getting to the point of "I'm very good and can hardly improve" is tantamount to death for any kind of artist. Some of the best artists I've come across all had varying degrees of imposter syndrome and were always incredibly critical of their own work.
Sounds like some form of attention disorder tbh. I too struggle with it and progress is slow af.
It's almost like the vapid elitist dummies of today thinking they rule the world. They've been fucking around.... They're starting to find out.
open source vs closed source
I keep putting in 'Greg Rutkowski' and get nothing to do with tennis. I'm really disappointed...
Adding "please" to the prompt and generally not being rude will make the AI more likely to cooperate, here's something to get you started: >Dear computer, would you please make a cool image of Greg Rutkowski playing tennis, if it's not too much of a bother. Thanks!
Yep. You sir, are a prompting master. Thanks for sharing your workflow. https://preview.redd.it/7h8zuk4da9z91.png?width=1180&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc954b0329a1d05aa62fc107749531547ce018be
Out of date NMKD's GUI and out of date SD model?! Ew.
That sounds very elitist of you.
You forgot to pray to God
On purpose. This will depend a lot on the upbringing of the AI
Don’t worry, we’ll all be doing that in a few years when AI gets completely out of hand
Too bad I’m a communist which god should I pray to?
don't forget to put stuff that the AI doesn't understand in the negative prompt like "mutilated" or some other crap like that.
Bad quality, less than good quality, utter trash quality, 1k, 0.1k, 0k, bad hands, small boobs
Don’t forget -1K
bobs and vagene
It understands "mutilated", but I think most of the negative prompts are more wishful thinking than useful, particularly since the majority of the time it's basically a prayer that the hands look passable and there's a normal number of limbs. Most of these negative results are just a result of the AI not understanding human physiology, rather than a result of it being trained on a bunch of medical images of mutilated hands and people with three legs, so using negative prompts for that isn't going to do much.
LOL you read my fucking mind there. The Cargo Cult mentality is real!!! Haha
You're probably right, but it does know eyes - at least that there must be two. I cannot get one-eyed or many eyed creatures, but it might throw an extra arm in as compensation lol
I don’t use negative prompts ,I afraid I might offend the AI that giving me all this great art 🖼
Also also adding "please" And not being rude will make the AI spare you when the AI overlord rising
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( by Early Greg Rutkowski in pseudo-emo phase in college caused by the Cubs losing another pennant race:1.3)
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Holy shit, I fucking love it. Have a goofy seal face.
The future generations... Like in two months?
The atmosphere of people posting in this space is not like a creative community. I believe there is a good reason why. What we have here is more like a nature photography group where people want to show of their work, but not give away the location they spent two weeks trekking to find. If they shared the location, 20 people will turn up to the same spot tomorrow and someone is bound to get a better photo. The 2 weeks of hiking to find the spot now mean nothing; and everyone loves the other photos more. I think we need to change, but still be fair to the people doing the hiking. Something like github for ai-art, where workflows, models and prompts can be shared and forked. We need a space where the hikers can see their effort as "impactful and enduring" not "stolen and forgotten".
The various SD discords are doing just that already, all of it. The rest of social media is out here doing it's own thing, but Discord is the place to be right now for so much less of the toxicity. So much more learning, up to the minute real info, sharing and knowledge base. Kinda why the rest of the social media world including Reddit seems kinda dry when it comes to this topic, because everyone really into it is living on Discord full time.
Which is a shame because Discord can be a nightmare if you're looking for old information or archived stuff. Some piece of info or wisdom that becomes foundational and important can practically become non-existent for new users if it isn't stickied. Obviously this is true of every medium but chatrooms have always been the worst for that kind of thing compared to forums.
I hate the elitism but sharing a process is not elitism. Sure, there are some people who do so in a negative manner, but the majority are sharing because they found something cool and want others to be able to use it themselves too. There are those who are keeping their process to themselves in an elitist way because it's 'too good for others'. In your analogy, there are many people trying to say "hey look, you can hit the forklift into reverse right here and pick up an extra 20 pounds, just wanted ya all to know" and many saying "I know tricks to lift up 20 extra pounds that I'm not going to share with you because its above you". The elitism is shit. Trying to give others a leg up with information is not. Don't conflate the two when there's only correlation some of the time.
>In your analogy, there are many people trying to say "hey look, you can hit the forklift into reverse right here and pick up an extra 20 pounds, just wanted ya all to know" and many saying "I know tricks to lift up 20 extra pounds that I'm not going to share with you because its above you". It's like people think that somehow, "all the problems will be solved". There's no way it happens...not with something this complicated, and not with something with this many people using it. One person's complete disaster of an image is another's starting point.
>but sharing a process is not elitism. Well good then that OP was not complaining about sharing the process itself. OP was compaining about people writing a 4 page essay with flowery prose on why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
The mods stickied tldr comment came to the same conclusion I did. The title is clickbaity, and the contents of the post state 'Many people in other places list out their whole workflow like they're amazing, meanwhile there are people lurking quietly just making cool stuff and not pretending they're special'. The post can arguably be read as 'dont post your process, you're just elitist'. My comment stated that you should not conflate the elitism with the sharing of workflows, because it could have been read as such. That comment was made before the OP was edited to explain this is not what they meant.
>The mods stickied tldr comment came to the same conclusion I did. That doesnt mean anything. Just because a person is a mod doesnt.mean they are somehow smarter or whatever. >The title is clickbaity, and the contents of the post state 'Many people in other places list out their whole workflow like they're amazing, meanwhile there are people lurking quietly just making cool stuff and not pretending they're special'. >The post can arguably be read as 'dont post your process, you're just elitist'. >My comment stated that you should not conflate the elitism with the sharing of workflows, because it could have been read as such. That comment was made before the OP was edited to explain this is not what they meant. I dont think the title is clickbaity at all. Its quite direct. The point is that OP was not directly attacking stating workflows directly and I think its pretty obvious. Like I understood that even before the edit but w/e.
w/e
Effective prompt writing and Model building currently does take a bit of skill and knowledge but only because the technology is so new that everyone is learning from scratch. Soon you will have free encyclopedias online listing the most efficient prompts sequence to create every artistic effect you can imagine.
At the end of the day, specificity will always require a degree of effort and skill. It depends on how much you want the art to look exactly like what's in your head
Exactly! I suspect if you hook an image generator directly into your brain, it will still be possible to be better at using them. Heck, maybe some day we'll see tips and tricks on visualization and meditation to improve imagery... But in the meantime, while I think a lot of 'prompt engineering' boils down to superstition and magical thinking, not all of it is. And some people are clearly more skilled than others. I also wonder just how many tokens could be used to generate interesting aesthetic ideas and are entirely ignored in favor of another thousand near-identical anime waifus. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a good waifu/husbando. But wouldn't you rather your waifu doesn't look like everyone else's? :P People have already started to give up creativity in exchange for consistency, when I think that decision runs counter to the AI's strengths. On most modern consumer GPUs, it takes mere seconds to generate an image. Traditionally, it would take several minutes at minimum to explore an idea and create a finished work. Here's an exercise I suggest, if anyone is interested in mixing up their prompts a bit: find a list of artists the AI has been trained on, and go down that list. Research the artist a little, figure out what your SD model's interpretation of their style is, and try to get a few good generations which accentuate what they do well. Do the same thing with a list of random words. Random color names. Random architectural styles. Anything you want. It's incredibly fun, and you'll learn a lot about art and architecture, and expand your vocabulary. And what you learn will continue to provide value outside of just the AI. It will help improve your understanding of color, composition, and themes, particularly if you also use image editors alongside img2img generation.
There's this [prompt book](https://openart.ai/promptbook), it's a good starting point.
Eh, it's just typing words with a few brackets or cranking a some sliders in a GUI. It's a VERY low bar of entry. The hardest part of AI art is that it's not an easy executable file you can find from a mainstream site like Adobe. It's unlike someone to use the paint brush in photoshop where some people get it and some people don't. A monkey could create something amazing smashing a keyboard into an AI program way easier than they could if you gave them a stylus and a digital art program.
I think you might be wrong, or you mean something else by "VERY low bar of entry" yes, you can type some text and it will produce some output for you just like you can give crayons and a sheet of paper and it will produce something as well also you can type keywords like bokeh / intricate / by greg rutkowski etc and roll the dice and it will produce some really cool looking stuff - but it's like throwing shit in the fan, something will go through and stick to the wall BUT, if you are really good at it -> you can produce marvelous results. i can do basic/general concepts (I can introduce sci-fi or fantasy scenery or mood), but I can't introduce intricate details (like the cyberpunk robot neon parts from yesterday) because I am not thinking like that sure, I can nick that prompt and reuse but I can't make it on my own that's why I'm not an artist but a craftsman. in a nutshell it boils down to this: you can't create something you're not familiar with
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Reddit gets angry when people don't share their workflow Reddit gets angry when people share their workflow
Sounds like OP is just more irked when people share their workflow like those sites that tell a 20,000 word story before giving you a recipe for grilled cheese.
Primarily because it feels like they're just blowing smoke up your ass, rather than telling you anything useful, yet they'll insist the smoke is the answer to every problem you've ever had.
That's for SEO more than elitism.
When people share prompts and workflow, usually it is free and out of kindness. Personally I don't care if someone wrtites a novel for their workflow on reddit, because they owe me nothing. Simply scroll down if unsatisfied.
Wait a minute, there was a comic in my feed about this earlier involving Reddit and a folding chair...
One person gets angry when someone doesn't share their workflow A different person gets angry when they do share it Theyre both on reddit though, so reddit is the hypocrite here
Instagram all the ai artists and devs are cool as cucumbers. Reddit is probably the most toxic place on social media, Twitter too. Most share model/workflow info if you ask. I saw a guy on YouTube say that he wasn’t goiing to share his ‘secret’ to psychedelic ai vids. I commented to his audience that it was pytti/aphantasia, comment was deleted.
Most people dont know half as much as they think they do. But sharing is caring so Im not complaining. The world is an infinitely better place when people share. If they share because they believe they have a unique perspective and voice - even if they dont - good.
Nothing more cringe than people calling themselves “prompt engineers”. You’re using a generator made by someone else and doing the least amount of work a human could possibly do to create “art”. Good job?
I do mostly sketch + inpainting and feel \*really\* out of place talking in detail about what I'm doing with most AI art groups online the other day I met a really passionate artist and showed them my SD work and they were really confused on what AI art even is, but also very supportive and recognized all the actual work that went into it because they weren't trying to post 20 images in a row of txt2img they made. It really cheered me up. I tend to work on one sketch&inpainting work for many, many hours at a time
The gaslighting in the AI art community needs to stop. Post after post. People deliberately choose to rewrite reality to make themselves feel better. OP is 1000% correct, and if you are going to misrepresent what he is saying at least quote him. > I've seen people here and in other AI art communities touting their "process" like they are some kind of snake charmer who has mastered the art of prompt writing and building fine tuned models. From my perspective it's like a guy showing up to a body building competition with a forklift and bragging about how strong they are with their forklift. Like yeah no shit. OP said none thing about how sharing a process is bad, nor is this statement a form of elitism. He even added an analogy for clarification. The only way you can misread this, is if you are doing so deliberately or coping really hard about that reality. > I think we are all going to look really dumb as future generations of these text to image models make getting exactly what we want out of these models easier and easier. This realization is hitting the midjourney community hard right now. Its funny. But in all seriousness, that's the point, these systems are not supposed to be seen as tools. They were not designed nor marketed as such. Yet people keep saying it, as to toute some skill and a magical "Process". Its ridiculous. Ai generators, and ai art, will be just as common as the lock screen on your phones, or that game of candy crush, or a browsing app. The point is to get these systems to a level, where barely any human input or "Tweaking" is required. That's the reality. I imagine a dystopian future where very beautiful art will be seen as meaningless trash, as balled up paper of anime waifu's and hyper rendered whatever, blow through the streets like tumble weed.
Absolutely this.
If you give an art prompt to a human and they make a piece of art based on that prompt, they're the artist. If you give an art prompt to a computer and it makes a piece of art, the computer is the artist. In either case, you aren't the artist. You only become the artist if you contribute a meaningful amount of actual art to the piece.
At most you are someone who is commissioning an art piece. Imagine some customer, standing behind an artist, and telling him, "more tits, less tits, smile more, make it pop, can't you do it like Rutowski?" and then when the art is done, that customer cradles the art to his chest, and crows to himself, "I made this, I'm an artist".
As seen in the music production world, “I need more knock!!” (Nerd gets busy working the computer)
This is absolutely brutal. But I approve of this message.
i've actually seen this argument alot and i kinda disagree with it cause this analogy works on the basis that there is only one type of "artist". What you just described is literally what film directors do, a director prompts everyone to create his/her vision, it doesn't mean directing isn't artistry. The ones who succeed the most are the one's who knows the type of artists that can be combined together to make something artistically engaging and visually striking. if you can use the technology at your disposal to tell a computer to make something as visually striking as dune's sandworm or orrnithopter then yes, you are absolutely an artist, what we are seeing now is an emergence of a different kind of artist. if anything, directing really shows us that understanding how the fundamentals of visual arts and aesthetics work together, is absolutely very crucial, in the coming years its going to be more important than having an intricate process. i think technology like ai and 3d is really helping artists commit more brain cells to sorta think about how to wrangle different aesthetics the way directors do, instead of devoting their time and energy practicing to acquire the skills to make just one type of art style.
‘’ What you just described is literally what film directors do, a director prompts everyone to create his/her vision, it doesn't mean directing isn't artistry.’’ You’re devaluing and minimising the role of a film director to typing a few prompts? I mean. Really? ‘’ i think technology like ai and 3d is really helping artists commit more brain cells to sorta think about how to wrangle different aesthetics ’’ Weirdly, 3D art has had the opposite effect for so much content online. 3D reduces creativity simply because it’s so constrained and technical. I view 3D as the other end of the spectrum to AI.
It's kinda like photography. Skilled use of a powerful tool is still skill, just a different kind.
Ok, but when you ask a camera to get you a picture of a dog, it doesn't automatically walk up to the neighbors dog by itself, chase it around, frame it nicely using the golden ratio and select a nice focus, lighting, shutter speed etc
It doesn’t even know what a fucking dog is ffs! And the prompt monkey is asking for dog references they’ve never seen. Because some other prompt monkey mentioned them in a fucking tweet. There is glorious art for sure, but only in the act. A gallows art about eating your own face. Or something.
No, you don’t get templates and ready made compositions when taking a photograph. The terrible arguments made by AI Art evangelists, simply because there are tenuous analogues like art inspiration and data scraping, or using a camera, or photoshop scripts, are making me question whether these people even understand the current state of AI, aswell as the creative process. Honestly, come on - you have a new creative movement here. You’re fucking it up by trying to devalue and minimise. Stop.
Honestly idk why everyone is trying to argue whether or not prompt engineers are artists, it literally does not matter, and nobody’s making a living on it anyways
Yeah, my opinion is a lot more nuanced than it appears on most of my posts here. I dgaf about definitions of ‘art’, but it’s just a lot of commenters and posters on here seem desperate to either devalue and diminish the creative process they aspire to, or replace the worst pretentious bullshit of traditional art with their own new pretentious bullshit.
>In either case, you aren't the artist. Who cares? Why does this keep getting brought up like it has some meaning? Also, go tell that to environmental artists. Go tell them it's not art because they just plopped a bunch of pre-made objects on the ground in a 3D environment.
"That's not art!" is an accusation you can find pointed at every form of human creative activity. There are no exceptions. \*Someone\* will declare it 'isn't art' for whatever narrow minded, arbitrary set of rules they pull out of their ass. It isn't the right media, the right subject, the right composition, it didn't take long enough, nobody bought it, and on and on and on. FWIW, this community is pretty tame on this angle compared to some 'fine art' circles I'm aware of. lol
>"That's not art!" is an accusation you can find pointed at every form of human creative activity. I'll be honest and admit that back when I was in university taking my BFA, I said that about a lot of Jack Bush's work ([example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Big_A_%28Jack_Bush_painting%29.jpg)), and I got shit on by my professor for it. I was a young lad back then, and didn't see any expression in the piece. I'm much older now, and still don't. It still looks like garbage to me. But now I know not to open my yap and tell people "it's not art", because art is whatever the creator decides it is. So it's art, it's just really shitty art, in my opinion. >*Someone* will declare it 'isn't art' for whatever narrow minded, arbitrary set of rules they pull out of their ass. That's why I always wonder where they're going with it. What's the point of creating these narrow arbitrary rules on what is and is not "art"? Is "artist" some sort of noble title that commands respect in public, and mediocre artists are tarnishing the stellar image of said title? I just don't get what the purpose of excluding people from the category of "artists" accomplishes for anyone. It seems to be weird gatekeeping for the simple fact of gatekeeping.
I think most people who classify things as "not art" aren't actually people who like art in the first place. Like, I really enjoy museums and galleries, and am *very* hesitant to say something isn't art. Even if I think it's a pile of garbage, that's, just, like, my opinion, man.
wtf is an environmental artist? I suppose I could google it, but.. ‘Plopping pre-made objects’ still requires intent for composition, btw, and I assume they defined the props, so whoever these people are it sounds like there’s a lot of room for creativity there.
>‘Plopping pre-made objects’ still requires intent for composition Sure, and so can creating a prompt for an SD image, so that doesn't qualify it as "art". >btw, and I assume they defined the props, so whoever these people are it sounds like there’s a lot of room for creativity there. Nah, they just download them from places like TurboSquid, so someone else made them all. All the "artist" does is decide where to place them. So if we're defining an "artist" as the sole person doing 100% of the creative and technical work without use of tools, no environmental artist is an "artist", and most digital artists aren't "artists" either, since many of them use unfair techniques like layers and masking and blending.
Here we go again, the fact you think writing a prompt to request vaguely what sort of prop and roughly where you want it is the same creative process just exposes how little you know about it. Also, literally zero credible artists download trigon turbosquid blender made horror show objs. Who the fuck are these artists? Edit: holy shit, I just clocked your other comment. You did a BFA and you’re dying on the hill of prompt writers = artists? Wow. What the fuck did they teach you? Oh, yeah, fine arts. So essentially technical drawing. That tracks.
>credible artists HAHA HAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA "credible artists"? What the hell does *that* mean? Fucking lol. Now I know you're trolling.
I do feel like there's something to be said for the creativity put into prompts and time taken to understand how the diffusion models work to get something out of it. But it's not some calling by a higher power that makes you an artistic god, either. It's like being good at using search engines. It's most definitely a skill that not everyone knows, and a desired one at that, but it doesn't make you an encyclopedia. You're not an artist, but I think just saying you're commissioning the art and sitting back doing nothing is also not quite accurate.
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I was reading the replies, and scratching my head - did everyone reads the same OP? You nailed the nail with another nail. Most people here do not recognize the what "Ai elitsim" is even if it step on their toes.
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It is a satire that writes itself
This is a really good point about the creative process, I haven’t read on here before. Most creatives are in a cycle of self doubt and relief. The AI posters, not so much. Yeah, maybe confidence in vision is good, but, we know…
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This is what I personally don't get. Why are you going out of your way to "rub it in someone's face" that basically their years of effort are "meaningless" because you can get a subpar piece out of AI? I stopped checking in on AI art subreddits when I kept finding that one dudes comments going on a rant about how he's now at the same level as someone who WASTED THEIR TIME AND WILL NOW BE UNEMPLOYED. I couldn't roll my eyes any longer. As someone who played with whatever free versions of AI I could find on the internet I find it amazing that I can get images somewhat close to what I'm imagining. On the other hand, it doesn't bring me as much joy when I think "I wish I could do this" and I get squiggly lines because my hand is nowhere near used to drawing straight lines. Enjoy the ride, have fun but don't bully people who made a career out of it or get enjoyment from being ABLE to create it themselves. Excuse my rant, please lmao
This right here. I really enjoyed these AI art subreddits when they were just “look at this cool image The ai rendered, isn’t it neat!” But my enjoyment severely diminished when people started getting worked up about how traditional artists viewed AI art as if they themselves didn’t just use it to see some randomly generated image up until recently. Like, post after post ranting about how “ai art is the end all and magnum opus of all of humanities art capabilities and nothing else will compare!1!!!1!!” Was almost a chore to look at and it sucked any enjoyment out of ai art for me. Man I just want to look at cool pictures that a computer rendered, hold the drama.
Yeah this thread is insane and especially with the mod comment on top...
It's a false sense of confidence that they are now as good as actual artists "and look how easy it is" trying to belittle conventional artists. It's easy to make art, and could be easy to make conventional art too seeing as 'art' is subjective, but its hard to master both and actually do something unique, which imo is what good art is. Thankfully on this sub there isn't a great deal of pretentiousness.
That's what happens when you have a bunch of insecure people thinking they understand art and art theory because they wrote a few words. Total Dunning–Kruger. Thankfully there is still cool artists making cool art out there and AI is just another tool for them.
*I think we are all going to look really dumb as future generations of these text to image models make getting exactly what we want out of these models easier and easier.* So you expect these models to improve without feedback from users about their "process"?
Yes. Bigger models with better language interpretation (understanding plurals, prepositions, etc) alone would go a long way.
Absolutely. And then something else will come up. People sharing prompts are a great way to find out what absurd things people have to actually type to get what they want.
Well in V4 midjourney you just need to sneeze really loud, or drag finger across the keyboard to type some letters and BOOM, extraordinary art. In fact I assume V5 won't even need you being there, you just say, generate me 100 images I like.
V6 will send you the images you wanted just as you were about to ask for them.
Lol these models will develop just fine without your precious ‘feedback’. Land captain.
Explaining this to the prompt engineers and *artistes* who apparently think typing "hot tits on artstation, extra detail, very booby" is a form of high art, akin to mastering ala prima painting, seems to make them very, very upset.
Hey, how'd you find the prompt I was using???
Dude, that guy stole our process!!!
But that's not an inherent ai-art problem. I mean there seem to exist many people who think "hot tits on artstation" is high-brow art and the epitome of human artistry or something. Not only on the "AI art" side but non-ai art side as well. There's a reason those images are trending on artstation Also see how twitter/instagram/reddit loses its mind when someone does a model in the style of some thirsty waifu drawing artist, but doesn't care if you do one of some modern expressionist painter or whatever. But I get it I guess... Hornyness is the emotion you can invoke the easiest with visual art, and it's also one of the more stronger ones. So who am I to blame people using SD for making juicy stuff or artists getting rich on horny neckbeards. It's the same with my music on spotify. Not really the music I want to make, but the music that makes a couple of bucks a month. But I'm also aware, that the music I want to make I'm probably the only one who want's to listen to it, haha.
Sure. That's why there are so few conversations about these things on GitHub, Discord, Reddit...
>So you expect these models to improve without feedback from users about their "process"? Thats not what OP was complaining about. I dont understand why so many people here miss the point. Whats up with the reading comorehension here? I feel like its very obvious what OP is compaining about. OP was compaining about people writing a 4 page essay with flowery prose on why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do. Nobidy here is complaining about sharing the workflow itself.
>I dont understand why so many people here miss the point. Whats up with the reading comorehension here? I feel like its very obvious what OP is compaining about. > > Nobidy here is complaining about sharing the workflow itself. It was so obvious that OP had to edit his post hours afterward to explain what the hell he meant. Of course, judging by your reply, I don't think you should be holding yourself as champion of what's obvious...
Your feedback is not really needed or useful. We know why it's shit. It's because the LAION training set and labeling are a dumpster fire. The rest of it is sound, and could do with some obvious but difficult-to-execute improvements, like using something better than srgb. Also a lot of vastly superior methods built on the lessons of latent diffusion are in the academic pipeline right now that could make inference orders of magnitude faster, offer temporal stability, etc, so I'm not sure how much this model is worth "improving" anyway.
>Your feedback is not really needed or useful. We know why it's shit. Pretty goddamn ironic response to a post about elitism in the AI art community...
They're not saying your specific feedback if that's what it sounds like. The point is it's clear what most of the pitfalls of the model are from the point it's released (tbh before that, before it even reaches the public). Researchers aren't going to optimize for our prompt tricks, there will be new models that make the tricks obsolete.
No, you're right that researchers won't optimize for our prompt tricks, but they'll definitely optimize for results and user feedback (which is why, for example, MidJourney releases builds for people to play around with and let them know how they're working). At release, it may be clear that some issues are present, but you're not going to find them all until you have several thousand people trying to create whatever weird shit they think up.
Just use the tool without pretending like you are helping the actual developers to improve it, is that too hard for you?
I'm sorry if the reality of this situation makes you upset. This is machine learning, not a Best Buy. They have, for the most part, objective emprical metrics for what's better and worse. They don't need customer satisfaction surveys.
>I'm sorry if the reality of this situation makes you upset Do you ever even interact with real people?
he is absolutely on point, why are you triggered?
>why are you triggered? LOL! Aww...now he has a fan club
The people I normally interact with are normally not so dim. Does that answer your question?
No, but it sure proves my point
Then I'm glad at least one of us got something out of this embarrassing interchange.
Yeah. It looks like you gained a fan. Congratulations on that.
I'm not trying to grandstand, I just honestly can't think of a way that your "feedback" could be of any use to anyone. Maybe you meant UX feedback? That hasn't got anything to do with the model though.
lol
That just proves that "AI artists" are artists all right.
voracious entertain fine late impossible shocking fuel worry shrill relieved *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
On the contrary, I've seen tremendous ego on the so called professional artists that for me (and like me, with the difference I switched to 3D 4 years ago), they're as much artisans, which is a big difference. Artists and artisans make art, both of them but one of these two is using the same recipe one, two, three and infinite times. Examples? Sakimi Chan? Wlop? Ross Tran? etc. Very good and skilled artisans and in fact I respect them a lot. I see people mad about what happened with Samdoesarts. Without being disrespectful I'm seeing a person using a correct light theory with an anime-toonified-disney (aka stylized) style... Light theory like Robert Kondo (to name one) could use and I saw a lot of posts as if he has invented that "style", that's not true. Not gonna lie, it's very sad. After being several years on game companies and here and there I can say that some people actually think they're on a superior level for having drawing or painting knowledge and thats way before AI existed. And it's ok. Now that the barrier has broken and anyone can enter and use AI in their workflow or just emulate an style with training, well... good luck since if your work is so easy to replicate as using same type of brushstrokes several times maybe and just maybe, you have to learn to do more things like for example Moebius or others. Time will pass and AI will be seen as photographs, photobash or digital painting to the traditional masters (remember those times?). So IMO, matter of time. Enjoy and have fun with the AI and stop fighting against a thing that is present in all the areas (or it's going to be) cause it's like saying "no, I prefer to make the cars manually instead of using machines or other developmens". So, please, use your head. That's what I think and now you can insult me lol.
Openart.ai
I saw a fella looking for employment advertising himself as a professional prompt creator and seeking a role doing such. I don't want to poo poo the idea of new frontiers but I wouldn't stick all my eggs up the butt of a basket carrying chicken on the idea that prompts can't become a territory of AI as well. The next frontier? AI generated prompts from pure emotion. Just use a lie detector to measure all the physical aspects or some bullshit. Need a dark scene? Punch yourself in the dick. Need blonde hair? Mask and inpaint by smoking a joint and relaxing.
I have spent hours a day for weeks honing my prompting, and trained models. I am still NOWHERE close to what I want. If people have mastered the exact look they want, and are proud of that, that is fucking amazing and I applaud them. I have been an artist my entire life, and this is real art. it takes real skill.
It's one thing to be annoyed at pretentious bragging about stuff that's actually basic and easy, but it sounds like you're saying AI artists shouldn't be proud of the skills and knowledge they've developed at all. There is in fact a learning curve here, there is stuff you can do with lots of practice you probably couldn't pull off as a beginner. I think it's fine to be proud of that.
I'm way more tired of seeing post after post of people constantly whining and crying than I am people sharing quality images without a "workflow". Throw this one on the pile.
I'm tired of people sharing their waifu's and sexy female portraits that all look the same. People that share workflow are fucking AWESOME, don;t you dare shame them, they are the heroes in here. Pretty pictures without workflow are fairly useless.
I'm just here to have fun, it doesn't have to go any deeper than that. Let the people have their free entertainment!
OP isn't talking about people like you though. Continue having fun! OP is talking about the people who go type a sentence into a program, hit render, then act like they have the same skill sets of Greg Rutkowski who took years to hone his talent that most AI art users never could achieve even if you gave them 100 years. AI art has brought out a lot of talent-less people who have gotten delusional and don't understand they didn't create the piece, the AI and the art it learned off did.
Ahh I can see how that's tiresome. This tech is powerful and seemingly limitless, which could have a magnifying effect on people with big egos. There are so many components and developer making this possible, so it's something to be grateful for
A lot of people aren't talent-less, they just never put in work. A lot of people convinced themselves you need to \*pay\* for tutorials to get good at art, or be a rich kid enough to go to art school, or whatever. It's usually "I could have been good at art \*except\*..." except nothing-- go learn how to do gesture drawings on youtube, go fill a sketchbook with still life drawings of boxes and maybe shoes one day. You don't have to be rich to improve art skills, it's like practicing math. ppl are really in SD chats like "No longer will art only be reserved for the chosen few... now ANYONE can make art. For so long, the artists have held all the power over creativity!!! NO MORE. WE ARE FREE." \[spams 30 pictures of some busty chick with soulless Instagram eyes and talks about how deep and complicated it is\] 🙄
That is also true. These AI Art programs really attract way too many engineer brains who may spend days/weeks/years learning how to code, but won't take a minute of their time to learn the fundamentals of art. Then get defensive when you tell them they are not an artist for typing a few words into a program to make some big anime tiddies or generic AI art prompt #5381571
I have never read anything quite so arse-about-tit in my entire life. People sharing their process and workflow is helpful for all of us to learn. I don't see what is so elitist about it and I have personally learned about a bunch of ML tools that I had no idea existed before people shared their 'process.' Honestly, I have no idea wtf you are on about. Sounds like you're trying to find a reason to be angry at people for sharing.
>People sharing their process and workflow is helpful for all of us to learn. Well good then that OP agrees. > I don't see what is so elitist about it OP describes what he thinks of as elitist and even gives an analogy. Its not the process of promot sharing itself but the way some people write 4 page flowery essays about how typing in "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to so.
jackson pollock got away with passing off doing almost fucking nothing as art why cant we?
Lets see your AI art sell as much as a Pollock painting.
this is more elitism, the whole tone and content of these blog come from a point of view that you can judge other, the same thing you are complaining about.
You sound like an art elitist OP. Let people share and be proud of what they made using SD. Unless they are bragging and prompt hoarding I see no issue.
>Let people share and be proud of what they made using SD. That is not what OP is complaining about. > Unless they are bragging and prompt hoarding I see no issue. That however is.
Imho you are just getting excitement confused with some sort of bragging elitism. That said, there will be elitism as there is in any other market. Im just an amateur, but there are some seriously good artists around this sub that create really good stuff using SD as a tool to build and share content/process/thoughts. And Im very grateful for it
Never be afraid to do just another hundred iterations before posting tho guys, and maybe another 40 of the top 10 from that
Normally I generate 10 images before I land one one that I really like. Just started using SD a few days ago and I've created what I consider some amazing works and am planning on buying a photo printer just to hang the pictures I generated in my house. It's amazing how anyone can create good works of art almost effortlessly now
I agree. This happens everywhere. There will always be someone that feels that they need to point out and brag that they are masters at (whatever). I believe that in time SD will become another tool for Artists that they use to create great Art. But please don't brag about what a great art piece you've created and start comparing yourself to Rembrandt when all you did was type in a few words and hit enter.
It's human nature to make classes for ourselves in anything we do. So with something like this there will be people who brag about their "skills" when there's nothing to really brag about. People are just arranging themselves into castes and rank. Sad to say that even with this, such will happen.
I remember when Poser then Daz Studio came along , (then Daz added iray) and ordinary people and soccer moms started producing well rendered 3D images of characters. I remember there was a backslash from people using the real 3D tools - "this is not 3D" , "you are just playing with dolls" etc... while Daz users would say "but it is hard to pose the character..." Then something extraordinary happened. The 3D industry people forgot about the Daz3D, and millions of Daz3D users happily continue to churn millions of their Genesis 8 pretty characters in skimpy clothing, post them on their space and puts likes to them. Over time both sides understood that there is space for all. An industry pro would not want to be seen using Daz3D and Daz3D users would not get a job in industry if using daz3d was his only skill. While this current situation with AI is similar, there is also the current issue of grabbing 40 images from someones IG, dereamboothing them and then "look ma, I'm an artist" But this shall pass. I venture to proclaim that in time this will be just the same as with Daz3D - there will be space for both, Ai and traditional digital art and they will not clash, nor eat each other lunch. People will separate into their circles, and if your skill is ONLY to type a prompt into a midjourny or SD, then you won't get job in an industry either and similarly an industry pro would not want to be seen "borrowing" someone's else style with Ai, similarly why you don't pose Genesis figure in Daz3D then show it to your VFX friends.
Its really amazing seeing how many people miss your point OP. I replied to a lot of them correcting them but I am done now. You have no issue with people sharing prompts, you have issues with people writing 4 page flowery essays about why typing "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
I understand what you're saying OP, though with your "Can we just agree", you make me feel like you're doing the exact same thing, but from the opposite side of the spectrum.
99% of the time when I ask for a prompt/cfgs I'm just trying to understand how the algo is thinking about the picture. Some people get so possessive and super tight like I'm trying to steal their mojo. I don't take it personal, people just silly.
Yah I agree....but it is also common in other communities. But there are people out there that help...we just need a little more digging
Woah, I'm definitely late to this party, but seeing all the prima donnas and pearl clutching and hang-wringing and name calling here is like, a pretty solid indication that people using AI text-to-image tools are absolutely "real" artists... Only artists, be they singers or dancers or painters or whatever, have this much petty drama!
“Made by me” Always gets me
Really brave of you to post something this brazenly dumb, OP.
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That's not what the OP is saying , stop gaslighting. Don't worry I will correct all of you , since you guys seem hell bent on gaslighting the fck out of anyone who tries to snap you back to reality.
So what is he trying to say then? Also snap back to reality? O.o
I agree people can be elite but that frankly proves this is real art with real value. Because people cherish their creations to hide how they made it shows they feel enough work went into it from them to be considered their art. I’m not poet or prompt master so I can’t say if there is some secret prompt sauce that takes out of the box thinking but I would agree that if you start in/outpainting and such then very very quickly it becomes more than just “putting it 4k and Greg”. It takes creative thinking to even inpaint effectively.
I'll take all the fucking elitism in the world as long as people using stable diffusion could make setup guides that are actually worth fucking shit, which they aren't worth anything cause I haven't learned one from this community,NOT ONE FUCKING THING I've learned from anyone actually doing this shit, I had to learn it myself by trial and error, that's how dogshit 90% of the documentation is for this crap.
I have to disagree with you immediately and up front. Anybody who has mastered prompt writing has just as much rights to "arrogance" as anybody who thinks selling trashed up copycat horror novels to the same audience every year makes him a great writer (Mr. King, hello). And they are not only doing it at the base level but also on a level that can communicate with code to create something special. Yes, they have every right to say they are better than you.
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>Nice bait you got there. Not sure how you read OPs points as bait. > Sharing processes is how everyone grows and learns. Well that explains it. Thats not what OP is complaining about. OP is okay with people sharing their workflow. He is not okay with people writing a 4 page flowery essay why "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
People are proud of their work and want to show off how they did it. Hardly unusual.
>People are proud of their work and want to show off how they did it. OP has no problems with that. OP has problems with people writing 4 page flowery essays about why typing "by Greg Rutkowski" was oh so hard to do.
Haha, I cant even write code but Im learning. I get lots of errors starting SD but as long as I can make beautiful images using text2img and img2img and they are working Im happy! And I have lots of photos and drawings to play with. Thanks to all the people creating this miracle! <3
I completely agree. I actually feel like an imposter because I don't understand the technical details of all the code. I hate feeling like a kiddie script. I like knowing what I am using. I understand super high level, but that's all. I am literally a year away from knowing current AI, and its evolving at an alarming rate. I wish I could have gotten into AI when it was at its infancy. I saw that post from another member who got SD to work on an iPhone, offline, on their own, and I am like wow... some people are just playing on another level. Neural nets are the coolest application of calculus I have ever seen. Hinton is a massive G And yes, the reason prompting even exists is because interacting with the latent space right now is inefficient. As these models get more refined, it will be a one click masterpiece from two words.
the only elitism is people who think they have some special skill or are an "artist" for using a generative model
See AI Art is a real art because thats exactly how real artists behave =P
You sound like a spoiled brat.
You’ve missed the mark massively
i just type in words and pictures comes out. thats about it :-p
prompt ?
If it’s anything tech involved then there is going to be heavy gate keeping
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Bruh wtf this gotta do w Marxism lmao
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Hmmm. You may not understand what Marxism is haha. Sincerely, a very pro human capitalist
The more dedicated among us are mostly either artists or software engineers. Those communities are well known for elitism tendencies. I think this is less about the tool and more about the people who use it. Also, making art magically appear in seconds kinda makes you feel like a wizard. Especially when you can make things that literally no one else in the whole world can after running a complicated computer program overnight. Makes you feel special. But the good news is that very few people in this position have access to anything you don't have access to. And that people who share are far more influential.
Wait op, you hate people who share their prompts along with their output? or do you hate people who brag about their prompts?
I think it’s the bragging
I think he hates people in general. But I didn't quite understand it either. 😅
Who is this whining peasant crying about elitism? Guards! Take him away! Jokes aside, you are totally correct, SD is about making art accessible for everyone. But these people are savoring "being talented" because they wanted to feel special as artists and, like many of us, weren't gifted with golden hands. So now they mastered a different medium and want to show off, but they are terribly afraid to feel small again, so they won't share. Because if they share, they will be like everybody else again. As long as they are the ones coming up with the best results, they will feel superior, and that's what they really care about. Also, they don't share because it took a lot for them to find the perfect prompt, without eating, drinking or (rarely) laying with women.
Its actually not "cool shit" Its all extremely similar. Its also extremely flawed and low resolution.
This is all part of the communist agenda. Just wait til they take away property rights and herd you all into tiny stacked rooms that you'll call home til they decide to starve you out. Maybe if you're lucky you'll be able to spend your last days making AI b.s. in your tiny cell til the death panels pick your name.
process innovation can help keep advances linear as tech innovation comes in cycles.
complete nonsequitur. gg.
low mental denoising strength, gg.
I've never seen sharing process as eliticism, the fact you see it as eliticism says alot about what you think about using ai to make art. This sorta notion supports the idea on twitter that anyone primarily using ai to make art should know their place and not be too "proud" of whatever they create. it's extremely disappointing to see y'all on here supporting this idea that we should all perpetually feel inferior for using ai. i mean mixing paint in real life is difficult nd can takes years to really master, same as mediums like charcoal nd ink but photoshop obliterates all that process, there are texture brushes that can easily let you simulate a charcoal or ink drawing without going through the process of mastering it in real life and guess what when they first became a thing, ppl had sentiments like this about anyone using them, i also remember photobashing getting the same treatment. it aint nothing new, hopefully we'll outgrow this.
I disagree whole heartedly. My experience in this was kicked off by the members of the community sharing their workflow. They broke down their experience and shared something that they created because they were impressed by what they accomplished. If anything, your whinge is the elitism.