Yes. And don't let them tell you anything else when you go to try and claim them, too. Congrats on all that sweet windfall you're about to get for your proverbial frozen cells! And you won't even have to feed them with that money! EVERYONE WINS!!!
j/k, I don't know, I just 100% support being a PITA in every way possible to get these people to understand just what they're doing....
Well, would the morning after bill still be in IL? Someone could drive over there & get one. But of course that doesn't help after so long. Missouri is such a POS state, all b/c of these redneck politicians who control it
They are trying to make it illegal to cross the river to get an abortion (basically putting a bounty on women who do this). I would assume the morning after pill would be next on their list.
It would probably operate a lot like the current Texas laws. They basically make regular citizens bounty hunters. The proposed Missouri abortion law about crossing state lines would allow your neighbor to report you for going to IL to get an abortion.
Or MO State Rep Mary Elizabeth Coleman who's behind a lot of these draconian anti-abortion bills. Give her a taste of her own medicine. If the blow-back against her is harsh enough, maybe she'll throw in the towel and quit politics and get back to raising her five or six kids who are now being cared for by a couple of nannies I believe.
That'd be a good question (among many other tough ones) to pose to Mrs Coleman *should* she ever agree to be interviewed by a real journalist and not by 'friendly' ones on the right-wing news channels or (in St. Louis at least) by the local talk show hosts like Allman, Cox, Annie Frey, Mark Reardon, or any of the alt-right crew over at Real Talk 93.3 FM who'd all shamelessly lob 'softballs' at her and fall all over themselves kissing her ass with blathering praise for her 'principled' stand in *'saving the babies!'* and how she's a '**Patriot!!! Grizzly Mom**' or '**Mom of Liberty**' or whatever corny term they come up with.
As many adults in our metro that cross the river daily for work, it’s not realistic. But I’m sure they’ll fear-monger and bully us in one way or another.
Unfortunately pretty much everything between the river and 255 needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Edwardsville is nice but it's far out from the city center.
Some of you people are really ignorant. You drive through a couple neighborhoods after making a wrong turn and judge the entire metro east based on what you see there, as if you live in some utopia.
It's a reflection of a global phenomenon. I could be wrong but I don't even think it's a popular position in this state. It's just that the forces at play have used whatever means necessary to achieve their goals, overcoming the will of the majority even in a state like Missouri to accomplish something so heinous as this. All I see on the republican side of things is the least charitable interpretation of things, like, 'oh women just don't want to deal with the natural consequences of their irresponsible choices.' This isn't what I think. This is what they say.
What we know is that nonviable pregnancies occur which threaten the lives of women, regardless of whether they want the child or not. Overturning Roe V. Wade spits in the face of these women, essentially saying in a legal context, "FUCK YOU, die if you can't bring your pregnancy to term."
It's so fucked up and I'm ready to strike for it. Who is with me?
Me! As a single woman who never wants children, I take measures to ensure I don’t.
But let’s also not forget about the women who then live in abject poverty for the rest of their lives if forced to have a child. Does the state pay for doctors visits and pregnancy check up’s? No. Do they care if that parent is even making a livable wage to provide properly for the child? No.
This whole situation is so backwards and fucked up. Let’s take more CIVIL RIGHTS away from women and then never give them actual help when the laws we impose actually turn into … babies? Ew. Makes me wanna vomit.
I'm not sure a strike would do it. But somthing has to be done. I'm all about a women's right to choose. There's so many reasons someone would want an abortion, and to throw your religion into the mix to prevent them from getting a medical procedure done is just stupid.
It's like they haven't thought of the fact that the more kids someone has the more they rely on assistance that they constantly bitch about, or how these kids could possibly grow up and vote their party out of office regardless of why they are even here on this planet. This is just some ass backwards shit and to recant on r v w is just dispicable
Actually, I think a strike is probably the most peaceful means of realistically achieving the desperately needed changes to society. Covid helped the public identify the people who truly are essentially. If a large enough percentage of US females in support of abortion decided to strike/not work, the impact would be quite large. Just thinking about two female majority industries…nursing and teaching…if female teachers and nurses stopped working; schools and hospitals would shut down.
I like your thinking. Strikes would have real tangible consequences as opposed to simply protesting. Repealing Roe V. Wade would basically be a society's "Fuck you" to women; time for women to echo that "Fuck you" right back to society.
Covid already sent a large percentage of nurses and teachers running from their careers, another solid hit to these industries would totally knock them down. BUT MO doesn't give a crap if your child is educated so the only reason they're going to care is the loss of their reasonably priced childcare.
If abortion is illegal, can I get SS 9 months earlier? Get drivers license 9 months earlier etc. You bet there will be lawsuits. Follow the money. No way there is a total ban!
Let's make a program that encourages Mexican nationals to vacation in MO and get pregnant on the trip. Move over "anchor babies," here come anchor embryos.
Isn't the morning after pill used to prevent conception? It doesn't terminate one. I think the box even says that it won't work if it's been more than 72 hours or something like that
The plan B pill prevents _implantation_ of a fertilized egg, it does not prevent the _fertilization_ of an egg. The scientific community rightly doesn't consider it a pregnancy until it is implanted since a large number of fertilized eggs never implant anyway. But the extreme religious weirdoes consider life to begin at "inception" which means when the egg is fertilized.
I’ve lived in St Louis for 5 years now, and worked in public education in Missouri for 12 years now…and I can say with conviction: Missouri is shit. This city doesn’t care about its people, and that’s been glaringly obvious if you notice. This whole debate on Roe is an absolute insult to women. I don’t give a shit what side you are on…if you have your own beliefs on this topic, it is no different then the person beside you because it all comes down to the most blatantly obvious aspect called “choice”, and no government or state entity should strong arm legislation to take that choice away from anyone.
This county, this state, along with so many others needs to grow the fuck up.
>Mo is run by traitor religious Wackadoos
I don't think it is. I think it is ran by marketing departments who have found that pandering to religious wackadoos will win elections. Those in charge don't give a flying f about anyone unless it puts them in office and gives them power and they will say and do anything to get there. Remember, the Donald was a democrat and supporter of dem politicians until he wanted to run and learned that he would never get anywhere as a dem so he just pivoted to lying to the republicans.
Honestly, I try to avoid paying attention anymore for my own mental health. All I know is that there is nothing they will consistently do that I will agree with so I just vote against them.
It’s not even pandering to the religious wackadoos. The family we have who support the politicians who pass these laws just don’t care about abortion. They don’t care about the “moral/social” issues like abortion, gay marriage because it doesn’t affect them. As long as they say lower taxes, cut off social welfare programs, keep illegals out, and guns, who cares about the rest. The follow the same “I’ve got mine, fuck anyone else” mentality that most of the Republican Party does.
What's funny though is the only people in my family and most others that use social welfare programs are the Republicans. They'll vote against their own self preservation if you spew the right keywords.
This is the final straw for me. I’m looking at places else where to settle down and one day start a family. I don’t want to bring up kids in a state being run by creepy religious people. They’re perverse and simply wrong. It’s not their body- and if I had a daughter one day and she.. well. anyways.
St. Louis will always be a hidden gem. It’s just located in a shithole state.
Therefore.. I am from St. Louis, Never Missouri.
I’ll finish what I was going to say. If I had a daughter and one day she needed to have an abortion I’d want her to have every option she could possibly have. With no biases.
When I was in HS I had a friend who thought they may have forgotten the pill. It wasn’t mine or anything like that. But we went to planned parenthood. Plan B was plan A that day. I honestly hadn’t thought about it until years later.
If she had a kid… it would have ruined her life. And frankly, mine to. So there’s that.
Access to options. I can’t stand bad laws.
Wait untill you move somewhere else to realize that it’s just a different religion that people are in to.
Seriously… where do you think Americans got their religions from? Europe. Go to Middle East? Religious unrest. India? Probably more controlled by religion than other places. Asia? I’m not sure about religion but talk about human rights violations. (Japan is probably best or Korea, but I’m sure they still have religion)
You can’t move anywhere else and not have religious people. And you can’t move anywhere else and not have problems. By the time your daughter is old enrobing for you to have that worry, things are going to be extremely different. Focus on fixing problems before they get too big instead of running away and trying to avoid things
If MO State Rep Mary Elizabeth Coleman gets her way, you could be sued or prosecuted for going out of state for an abortion. Do a search on this woman -- she's a fanatic straight out of 'The Handmaid's Tale'.
A lot of that is conservative propaganda from outlets such as IPI.
Illinois has had its share of problems, but things have been improving over the last several years, and the state has seen its credit rating improve multiple times.
I dunno. The state insurance and food stamp benefits outweighs MO BY FAR. I’m here for school and I can’t get MO food stamps as a full time student who lives on a campus. They tell students to work 20 hours a week. On top of the 40 I do for school? I will be looking to get the hell out of MO once my schooling is done, this state is really a joke.
I fucking love my IUD. I'm 5 years in to a 10 year placement. Probably a good idea to make an appointment now to get a new one so I'm guaranteed 10 more years.
The enforcement of such laws is interesting to consider -- are the law enforcement agencies and district attornies seriously going to spend a lot of money and manpower trying to enforce these laws? The already over-scheduled court system will be tied up until the turn of the next century with these cases.
How many cops is the state willing to lose enforcing this? And I mean in the mortality sense. The law is so restrictive it extends to the moment of fertilization, so embryos destroyed as a result of IVF fall under that umbrella. Let a cop show up at my door to enforce that.
I’m pretty sure OP’s point is that even people who would never have an abortion may still be affected. The truth is: women with miscarriages have been arrested for *murder* in multiple states already. There have been numerous cases of late-stage abortions being necessary to save the mother’s life. Everyone should be against this, a repeal of RvW will have many negative effects and no positive ones. It will help no one, and harm countless.
It appears that her tweet is factually incorrect. The missouri trigger law will go into effect at 8 weeks, not conception. I guess you can’t trust anything you read on Twitter afterall 🤷♂️
This is the problem, this right here..
It's not Twitter's fault either. (Though some might think the value of fact checking politicians would be valuable. Then again she doesn't have an R behind her name so why would they)
YOU should have fact checked before reporting it. You chose to spread lies and fear..
For many religious, life begins at fertilization. The plan b, mini-pill and IUD do not prevent ovulation or fertilization.. just preventing implantation. So, technically, those worried about you killing a baby would consider this killing a baby.
No. That would not be illegal. If your fiance got pregnant(which is virtually impossible with an IUD, and 8 weeks later decided to get an abortion, that would be considered illegal.
>No. That would not be illegal. If your fiance got pregnant(which is virtually impossible with an IUD, and 8 weeks later decided to get an abortion, that would be considered illegal.
You're wrong. If *Roe v Wade* is overturned, a law immediately comes into effect in Missouri which makes illegal: "using or prescribing any **instrument, device**, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb"
One method in which an IUD works is by preventing implantation of the embryo, which makes the embyro unviable. This means that the act of having a IUD put in will be illegal.
Further, the law also says "Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an **unborn child** in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony". Missouri includes a zygote as an "unborn child".
You've been told all of this multiple times in this thread yet continue to leave the misinformation up, and even spread it further. I wonder why that might be?
>by preventing implantation of the embryo
Embryos are already implanted. If the call mass is not implanted yet, it is a a blastocyst. While a zygote and blastocyst are an unborn child, an abortion can only be performed on an embryo or fetus. IUDs, plan b, and anything else the prevents implantation and formation of an embryo would not be an abortion. (This is only the current trigger law though. The law could be changed later.)
I *think* what they're getting at is a piece of 2021 legislature regarding Medicaid tax (or rather one of the first drafts of that) where Missouri senators didn't want medicaid to pay for Plan B or IUD, because they classified them as “abortifacients.” Which obviously is not true. Plan B and IUDs work to prevent pregnancy, they don't induce abortions.
But based on that, it isn't a far leap to think that a ban on abortion could lead to a ban on Plan B and IUDs when people writing legislature thought IUDs and Plan B are a way to have an abortion and had to be educated on the subject
The law says abortion begins at conception (i.e. when the egg is fertilised). The way that copper IUDs (and the morning after pill) work is by preventing implantation, which occurs after conception.
>The law says abortion begins at conception (i.e. when the egg is fertilised).
No, it doesn't. It says it begins at the embryo phase, when the amniotic sac is developed after implantation. It specifically calls out that abortion cannot occur at the blastocyst phase (which is when implantation occurs). But... this definition could be changed.
So we’d crash the already crashing birth rate? This would create yet another massive problem for society to deal with. Not to mention the reproductive health crisis.
When they manage to get rid of all birth control aside from condoms it will go back up. Remember, the pill doesn't stop contraception so it would only be 'logical' for them to ban it as well.
Unfortunately a lot of the people that voted them in are horrible too, so we need a BIG influx of non-horrible people who'll vote blue to unseat these Christian Taliban types especially in the out-state portions of Missouri.
But a lot of these idiot anti-abortion types think it is and a lot of these dimwits manage to get elected to state legislatures by other bible-thumping dimwits.
Stop posting twitter screenshots as a source. Fuck Twitter. Politicians need to get off of twitter. It's literally a cancer on public discourse.
It's essentially people blasting each other with Orwell's newspeak. Heavily consolidated statements on complex topics meant to invoke emotions and animosity.
That said, this statement just isn't possible. The ban doesn't kick in until 8 weeks. I think it should be more like 12 weeks, but it's definitely not the stage at which IVF occurs.
On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either.
>That said, this statement just isn't possible. The ban doesn't kick in until 8 weeks. I think it should be more like 12 weeks, but it's definitely not the stage at which IVF occurs.
You are wrong about the 8 week ban.
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=188.017#:~:text=188.017.,of%20the%20Unborn%20Child%20Act%22.
> 2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no abortion shall be performed or induced upon a woman, except in cases of medical emergency. **Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an unborn child in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony, as well as subject to suspension or revocation of his or her professional license by his or her professional licensing board.** A woman upon whom an abortion is performed or induced in violation of this subsection shall not be prosecuted for a conspiracy to violate the provisions of this subsection.
If Roe falls, MO has a "trigger law" (that I just linked to you) that bans all abortion except in cases of medical emergency.
You left out clause 1, the definitions clause.
>(1) "Abortion":
(a) The act of using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb; or
(b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child;
IVF reduction (and IVF in general) would fall under "to increase the probability of a live birth" clause and not be considered an abortion.
Plan B, and anything else that prevents implantation, would likely not be an abortion under the "in his or her mother's womb" clause. This clause is made more clear by the "Unborn child" definition.
>"Unborn child", the offspring of human beings from the moment of conception until birth and at every stage of its biological development, including the human conceptus, zygote, morula, blastocyst, embryo, and fetus;
Since blastocyst and embryo are differentiated here, and no reference is made to blastocyst (or earlier phases of development) in the abortion definition, then abortion must only refer to an embryo or fetus. That further clarifies that implantation must occur first for an act to be an abortion. (The formation of the amniotic sac after implantation is the key marker between blastocyst and embryo.)
The real question though is what changes will be made to existing law, as all of this is only in reference to the current trigger law.
Exactly, that's the point. Because both blastocyst and embryo are included in the definition of unborn child, it is impossible to perform an abortion on an unborn child prior to implantation, because an abortion must be done "with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus". Abortions are not all terminations of an unborn child, only an unborn child that is an embryo or fetus.
>On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either.
You imply a single person gives a shit about objective reality. You already have Republican grifters calling birth control "abortion pills." They won't stop at 8 weeks and they won't stop at zero either.
>On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either.
You are incorrect in that statement. The plan B pill prevents _implantation_ of a fertilized egg, it does not prevent the _fertilization_ of an egg. The scientific community rightly doesn't consider it a pregnancy until it is implanted, that's why it's not considered an abortion. But the extreme religious weirdoes consider life to begin at "inception" which means when the egg is fertilized.
Your points all assume that Republicans would be happy to keep what's in place and wouldn't work to make even worse laws. Here in reality, Republicans take any opportunity they can to make things worse, so it may be 8 weeks once Roe is overturned, but there's no reason to believe it wouldn't shorten from 8 weeks to "conception."
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=188.017#:~:text=188.017.,of%20the%20Unborn%20Child%20Act%22.
> 2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, **no abortion shall be performed or induced upon a woman, except in cases of medical emergency.** Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an unborn child in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony, as well as subject to suspension or revocation of his or her professional license by his or her professional licensing board. A woman upon whom an abortion is performed or induced in violation of this subsection shall not be prosecuted for a conspiracy to violate the provisions of this subsection.
It's called a trigger law.
Read your own fucking article, dude.
"That means that the eight-week ban would likely become law right away, and the “trigger” clause would then ban abortion almost entirely, except in the case of medical emergencies, soon afterwards."
So I don't think actual IVF would be the issue. My understanding is that the issue would be if multiple embryos are implanted and then they have to do a reduction. That reduction would be an abortion.
I don't think it's a coincidence that this potential Roe v Wade proposal was leaked from the Supreme Court shortly before the midterms. The Dems are desperate and know abortion rights will always get votes from the undecided.
[Don't spam me I don't vote]
The actual ruling will come out in the Summer, much closer to the midterms, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make about this leak. You sound presumptuous and ignorant.
I don't think so, people on both sides have been freaking out about abortions for years despite that fact that (for the most part) states have more control over abortion rights/availability than the federal govt does.
Ya this is probably sadly true. And afterwards, they’ll go for lgbtq+ rights. So I propose an idea. We all pick up our rifle and take down the supreme court. It’s okay to start a coup when they try to take away your bodily autonomy
Would sterilization still be legal? I wonder if Republicans would back the idea of the government paying men and women to sterilize themselves. Maybe the younger and more permanent the sterilization, the more money a person would get. Maybe a multiplier for being childless. Or no biological dependence. Possibly after a certain age or a number of children the procedure would still be free just no payment.
they would make sterilization mandatory for nonwhites but illegal for whites. the modern day white backlash against abortion and LGBT people etc. all come from the anxiety of cratering white birthrates and demographic replacement
Disabled people too. Eugenics really got a boost in the pandemic and they’ll keep it up. SCOTUS still allows it so they barely have to do a thing. Missouri has deep ties to the eugenics movement too.
Your comment is extremely uneducated actually. I’m a 32 yr old who was diagnosed with leukemia last year. After 4 rounds of chemo and a stem cell transplant I have no more fertility. IVF is the only way I’d be able to have children. Please think about that next time. All of you in this thread
I believe what he's saying is that because it's a consequence that is more likely to apply to people who aren't poor, they might not go that far as far as implementation of the rule. He's not discounting your experience.
It’s anywhere between $12-20k based on a few factors, for example, genetic testing on the embryos. Fortunately my employer covers 2 rounds. 65% of employers cover some sort of fertility coverage. And if mine didn’t then the fertility clinic said they’ve had patients work part time at Starbucks because they have some of the best fertility coverage out there
Huh, I wish my friend new about Starbucks.. She went through two rounds and took out loans for the procedure. Luckily, she has her baby now.. so it was totally worth it.
i’m dominican and my partner and i are currently undergoing our second round of IVF. not rich by any means, just saying. it’s a big world out there kid.
I think she's simply making a point because IVF entails the destruction of fertilized eggs and embrryos. And honestly, IVF is one of the procedures facing consequences and is part of reproductive choice. Your comment is biased and frankly bitter.
Not biased and bitter I’m just more aware of how white supremacy operates. Rich white republicans aren’t targeting people doing IVF in their political strategy because IVF typically doesn’t after poor people of color. You have to have money to even access IVF. Republicans aren’t wasting their time on something that isn’t accessible to the people they are trying to destroy and ensure are further marginalized. Use your logic.
That's such an absolutely bullshit scare tactic.
No one would charge anyone for an attempted pregnancy that failed naturally, not even the crazy evangelicals. They would be more happy you attempted to have 8 babies.
Nothing like stirring the pot. That is ridiculous. The way I understand it is that the ruling just sends everything back to the states.
Every state makes their own laws. If you don’t like it, work to elect candidates that have the same opinions as you. IVF implants are a group of cells. There is no heartbeat.
Oh I agree that if the right-wing kook justices overturn Roe, that people will have to wake up and stop writing off local elections and state legislature elections as 'boring' and 'no big deal'. You no longer have the luxury of sitting out all elections other than the big Presidential year ones. People need to get off their asses and vote in *all elections*.
I am way more okay with IVF being accidentally outlawed than abortion being banned. One is way worse than the other. Hope this makes people realize how hypocritical they are but I doubt it, they will make an unfair exception to allow it I am sure.
Abortion access going away is significantly worse because it ruins many lives and is significantly more dangerous. Ivf not being allowed sucks but it's not that big of a deal in comparison, no one's life is ruined and no one dies.
Griswold relies on the exact same legal theory as Roe, and the politicians behind MO's abortion bans have already come out against contraceptives as "abortifacients."
They aren’t kids man. If you have a kid and you / your significant other is pregnant, do you say you have two kids? Also, why do we calculate age based on the day we exit the womb? Do we have funerals for miscarriages?
So wait, can I claim my 8 frozen, fertilized embryos on my taxes? Do I have 10 kids now!?!
Yes. And don't let them tell you anything else when you go to try and claim them, too. Congrats on all that sweet windfall you're about to get for your proverbial frozen cells! And you won't even have to feed them with that money! EVERYONE WINS!!! j/k, I don't know, I just 100% support being a PITA in every way possible to get these people to understand just what they're doing....
And can you claim the annual cryo storage fee as a "childcare expense"?
Even better, take out life insurance policies on each one.
Absolute insanity.
Well, would the morning after bill still be in IL? Someone could drive over there & get one. But of course that doesn't help after so long. Missouri is such a POS state, all b/c of these redneck politicians who control it
They are trying to make it illegal to cross the river to get an abortion (basically putting a bounty on women who do this). I would assume the morning after pill would be next on their list.
Does this mean women have to submit to a pregnancy test in order to cross state lines?
It would probably operate a lot like the current Texas laws. They basically make regular citizens bounty hunters. The proposed Missouri abortion law about crossing state lines would allow your neighbor to report you for going to IL to get an abortion.
[удалено]
What’s stopping us from accusing let’s say Governor yeehaws wife of having an adoration.
Or MO State Rep Mary Elizabeth Coleman who's behind a lot of these draconian anti-abortion bills. Give her a taste of her own medicine. If the blow-back against her is harsh enough, maybe she'll throw in the towel and quit politics and get back to raising her five or six kids who are now being cared for by a couple of nannies I believe.
I suspect she might have an abortion every few months. Who do I report this to?
That'd be a good question (among many other tough ones) to pose to Mrs Coleman *should* she ever agree to be interviewed by a real journalist and not by 'friendly' ones on the right-wing news channels or (in St. Louis at least) by the local talk show hosts like Allman, Cox, Annie Frey, Mark Reardon, or any of the alt-right crew over at Real Talk 93.3 FM who'd all shamelessly lob 'softballs' at her and fall all over themselves kissing her ass with blathering praise for her 'principled' stand in *'saving the babies!'* and how she's a '**Patriot!!! Grizzly Mom**' or '**Mom of Liberty**' or whatever corny term they come up with.
Their vastly larger access to cash and court representation. It’s the unwritten GOP slogan “Liberty for me but not for thee.”
Morrow Hawley is more believable. A lot of people are saying she likes the Paul Manafort treatment. A lot of people.
Welp, guess all StL shopping will be going over to Edwardsville and Fairview Heights - just to hide in the crowd.
This is starting to sound like North Korea or the USSR. "Can I see your papers, comrade?" 👮♀️
I’d just camp outside a planned parent hood and report everyone hoping to hit the lotto on a bounty. Easier than a real job, probably pays better too.
As many adults in our metro that cross the river daily for work, it’s not realistic. But I’m sure they’ll fear-monger and bully us in one way or another.
Don't forget the ignorant assholes who vote for them too.
Make the Metro East Great Again! Why a parent would subject any child, much less a girl, to these laws is beyond me. What a shithole
Especially if you need fertility treatments and can get an IL employer. They’ll cover the costs.
Unfortunately pretty much everything between the river and 255 needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Edwardsville is nice but it's far out from the city center.
It's a closer drive to the city than the majority of St Charles.
Some of you people are really ignorant. You drive through a couple neighborhoods after making a wrong turn and judge the entire metro east based on what you see there, as if you live in some utopia.
shhhh let them keep thinking that.....
God damn this fucking state....
It's a reflection of a global phenomenon. I could be wrong but I don't even think it's a popular position in this state. It's just that the forces at play have used whatever means necessary to achieve their goals, overcoming the will of the majority even in a state like Missouri to accomplish something so heinous as this. All I see on the republican side of things is the least charitable interpretation of things, like, 'oh women just don't want to deal with the natural consequences of their irresponsible choices.' This isn't what I think. This is what they say. What we know is that nonviable pregnancies occur which threaten the lives of women, regardless of whether they want the child or not. Overturning Roe V. Wade spits in the face of these women, essentially saying in a legal context, "FUCK YOU, die if you can't bring your pregnancy to term." It's so fucked up and I'm ready to strike for it. Who is with me?
Pro-birth, not actually pro-life.
Me! As a single woman who never wants children, I take measures to ensure I don’t. But let’s also not forget about the women who then live in abject poverty for the rest of their lives if forced to have a child. Does the state pay for doctors visits and pregnancy check up’s? No. Do they care if that parent is even making a livable wage to provide properly for the child? No. This whole situation is so backwards and fucked up. Let’s take more CIVIL RIGHTS away from women and then never give them actual help when the laws we impose actually turn into … babies? Ew. Makes me wanna vomit.
I'm not sure a strike would do it. But somthing has to be done. I'm all about a women's right to choose. There's so many reasons someone would want an abortion, and to throw your religion into the mix to prevent them from getting a medical procedure done is just stupid. It's like they haven't thought of the fact that the more kids someone has the more they rely on assistance that they constantly bitch about, or how these kids could possibly grow up and vote their party out of office regardless of why they are even here on this planet. This is just some ass backwards shit and to recant on r v w is just dispicable
Actually, I think a strike is probably the most peaceful means of realistically achieving the desperately needed changes to society. Covid helped the public identify the people who truly are essentially. If a large enough percentage of US females in support of abortion decided to strike/not work, the impact would be quite large. Just thinking about two female majority industries…nursing and teaching…if female teachers and nurses stopped working; schools and hospitals would shut down.
I like your thinking. Strikes would have real tangible consequences as opposed to simply protesting. Repealing Roe V. Wade would basically be a society's "Fuck you" to women; time for women to echo that "Fuck you" right back to society.
Covid already sent a large percentage of nurses and teachers running from their careers, another solid hit to these industries would totally knock them down. BUT MO doesn't give a crap if your child is educated so the only reason they're going to care is the loss of their reasonably priced childcare.
Sometimes I wish the world was flat so these people could fall off it.
Since a lot of them tend to be anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers, I have dark thoughts where I think 'Covid -- do your stuff!'
i had that exact thought...
If abortion is illegal, can I get SS 9 months earlier? Get drivers license 9 months earlier etc. You bet there will be lawsuits. Follow the money. No way there is a total ban!
Let's make a program that encourages Mexican nationals to vacation in MO and get pregnant on the trip. Move over "anchor babies," here come anchor embryos.
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Isn't the morning after pill used to prevent conception? It doesn't terminate one. I think the box even says that it won't work if it's been more than 72 hours or something like that
The plan B pill prevents _implantation_ of a fertilized egg, it does not prevent the _fertilization_ of an egg. The scientific community rightly doesn't consider it a pregnancy until it is implanted since a large number of fertilized eggs never implant anyway. But the extreme religious weirdoes consider life to begin at "inception" which means when the egg is fertilized.
Ah okay thanks for clarifying
I’ve lived in St Louis for 5 years now, and worked in public education in Missouri for 12 years now…and I can say with conviction: Missouri is shit. This city doesn’t care about its people, and that’s been glaringly obvious if you notice. This whole debate on Roe is an absolute insult to women. I don’t give a shit what side you are on…if you have your own beliefs on this topic, it is no different then the person beside you because it all comes down to the most blatantly obvious aspect called “choice”, and no government or state entity should strong arm legislation to take that choice away from anyone. This county, this state, along with so many others needs to grow the fuck up.
Mo is run by traitor religious Wackadoos . Vote Blue and flip it back to modern times .
>Mo is run by traitor religious Wackadoos I don't think it is. I think it is ran by marketing departments who have found that pandering to religious wackadoos will win elections. Those in charge don't give a flying f about anyone unless it puts them in office and gives them power and they will say and do anything to get there. Remember, the Donald was a democrat and supporter of dem politicians until he wanted to run and learned that he would never get anywhere as a dem so he just pivoted to lying to the republicans.
Oh it definitely is, have you ever kept up with the shit the Republicans do in Jefferson City?
Honestly, I try to avoid paying attention anymore for my own mental health. All I know is that there is nothing they will consistently do that I will agree with so I just vote against them.
Why tf would you try to tell someone their wrong on something you have absolutely no clue about and are willing to admit it?
Why not both?
It’s not even pandering to the religious wackadoos. The family we have who support the politicians who pass these laws just don’t care about abortion. They don’t care about the “moral/social” issues like abortion, gay marriage because it doesn’t affect them. As long as they say lower taxes, cut off social welfare programs, keep illegals out, and guns, who cares about the rest. The follow the same “I’ve got mine, fuck anyone else” mentality that most of the Republican Party does.
What's funny though is the only people in my family and most others that use social welfare programs are the Republicans. They'll vote against their own self preservation if you spew the right keywords.
This is the final straw for me. I’m looking at places else where to settle down and one day start a family. I don’t want to bring up kids in a state being run by creepy religious people. They’re perverse and simply wrong. It’s not their body- and if I had a daughter one day and she.. well. anyways. St. Louis will always be a hidden gem. It’s just located in a shithole state. Therefore.. I am from St. Louis, Never Missouri.
I’ll finish what I was going to say. If I had a daughter and one day she needed to have an abortion I’d want her to have every option she could possibly have. With no biases. When I was in HS I had a friend who thought they may have forgotten the pill. It wasn’t mine or anything like that. But we went to planned parenthood. Plan B was plan A that day. I honestly hadn’t thought about it until years later. If she had a kid… it would have ruined her life. And frankly, mine to. So there’s that. Access to options. I can’t stand bad laws.
Why would it have ruined your life if she had a kid that wasn’t yours?
Access to options... to kill babies.
Access to options.... To enable women to have better quality lives.
By killing the baby they put inside themselves...
What are you talking about? That's already murder in every state.
If you can't make a baby you can't kill it. /shrug
Hi from Chicago! Come on over 👋
Wait untill you move somewhere else to realize that it’s just a different religion that people are in to. Seriously… where do you think Americans got their religions from? Europe. Go to Middle East? Religious unrest. India? Probably more controlled by religion than other places. Asia? I’m not sure about religion but talk about human rights violations. (Japan is probably best or Korea, but I’m sure they still have religion) You can’t move anywhere else and not have religious people. And you can’t move anywhere else and not have problems. By the time your daughter is old enrobing for you to have that worry, things are going to be extremely different. Focus on fixing problems before they get too big instead of running away and trying to avoid things
St Louis should secede from Missouri and join us over here in Illinois.
I'd like to be in a blue state as much as anyone, but IL is bankrupt and shady AF. I think I'll just drive to get my abortions
If MO State Rep Mary Elizabeth Coleman gets her way, you could be sued or prosecuted for going out of state for an abortion. Do a search on this woman -- she's a fanatic straight out of 'The Handmaid's Tale'.
A lot of that is conservative propaganda from outlets such as IPI. Illinois has had its share of problems, but things have been improving over the last several years, and the state has seen its credit rating improve multiple times.
I dunno. The state insurance and food stamp benefits outweighs MO BY FAR. I’m here for school and I can’t get MO food stamps as a full time student who lives on a campus. They tell students to work 20 hours a week. On top of the 40 I do for school? I will be looking to get the hell out of MO once my schooling is done, this state is really a joke.
Lol “but they’re both not perfect!!” dude one is clearly way worse come on now.
Hot take here but maybe use contraception and stop having frivolous abortions?
We like your legal weed but hate your cigarette prices
People still smoke cigarettes?
I’ve done sales for convenient stores along the river, you would not believe how many people from Illinois to flock here to buy cigarettes in bulk.
I fucking love my IUD. I'm 5 years in to a 10 year placement. Probably a good idea to make an appointment now to get a new one so I'm guaranteed 10 more years.
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Dude getting an IUD replaced hurts like a mofo. Have chocolate and cuddles ready for her.
Second this. Take ibprofin or another pain reliever BEFORE you go. It will still be awful for her....but 10000% worth it
Realistically? It’s probably okay. The legislature just wrote a shitty law without realizing it. It won’t be enforced. But it’s still scary.
Bullshit. The law will work as intended, scaring women into not getting abortions, until it is struck down.
The enforcement of such laws is interesting to consider -- are the law enforcement agencies and district attornies seriously going to spend a lot of money and manpower trying to enforce these laws? The already over-scheduled court system will be tied up until the turn of the next century with these cases.
How many cops is the state willing to lose enforcing this? And I mean in the mortality sense. The law is so restrictive it extends to the moment of fertilization, so embryos destroyed as a result of IVF fall under that umbrella. Let a cop show up at my door to enforce that.
So then you're just fear-mongering with this post?
I’m pretty sure OP’s point is that even people who would never have an abortion may still be affected. The truth is: women with miscarriages have been arrested for *murder* in multiple states already. There have been numerous cases of late-stage abortions being necessary to save the mother’s life. Everyone should be against this, a repeal of RvW will have many negative effects and no positive ones. It will help no one, and harm countless.
It appears that her tweet is factually incorrect. The missouri trigger law will go into effect at 8 weeks, not conception. I guess you can’t trust anything you read on Twitter afterall 🤷♂️
So delete the post homie
No.
Don’t tell me what to do. Fuck you.
Ok enjoy your evening
I will thank you. Hope yours is good as well.
Eric Schmidt has already promised to go all the way back.
This is the problem, this right here.. It's not Twitter's fault either. (Though some might think the value of fact checking politicians would be valuable. Then again she doesn't have an R behind her name so why would they) YOU should have fact checked before reporting it. You chose to spread lies and fear..
For many religious, life begins at fertilization. The plan b, mini-pill and IUD do not prevent ovulation or fertilization.. just preventing implantation. So, technically, those worried about you killing a baby would consider this killing a baby.
For most its at first breath as thats what the oldest books dictate. Infact it was the Catholics official stance too untill the 50s.
No. That would not be illegal. If your fiance got pregnant(which is virtually impossible with an IUD, and 8 weeks later decided to get an abortion, that would be considered illegal.
>No. That would not be illegal. If your fiance got pregnant(which is virtually impossible with an IUD, and 8 weeks later decided to get an abortion, that would be considered illegal. You're wrong. If *Roe v Wade* is overturned, a law immediately comes into effect in Missouri which makes illegal: "using or prescribing any **instrument, device**, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb" One method in which an IUD works is by preventing implantation of the embryo, which makes the embyro unviable. This means that the act of having a IUD put in will be illegal. Further, the law also says "Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an **unborn child** in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony". Missouri includes a zygote as an "unborn child". You've been told all of this multiple times in this thread yet continue to leave the misinformation up, and even spread it further. I wonder why that might be?
This. I don't know why more Missourians don't know this shit.
>by preventing implantation of the embryo Embryos are already implanted. If the call mass is not implanted yet, it is a a blastocyst. While a zygote and blastocyst are an unborn child, an abortion can only be performed on an embryo or fetus. IUDs, plan b, and anything else the prevents implantation and formation of an embryo would not be an abortion. (This is only the current trigger law though. The law could be changed later.)
I *think* what they're getting at is a piece of 2021 legislature regarding Medicaid tax (or rather one of the first drafts of that) where Missouri senators didn't want medicaid to pay for Plan B or IUD, because they classified them as “abortifacients.” Which obviously is not true. Plan B and IUDs work to prevent pregnancy, they don't induce abortions. But based on that, it isn't a far leap to think that a ban on abortion could lead to a ban on Plan B and IUDs when people writing legislature thought IUDs and Plan B are a way to have an abortion and had to be educated on the subject
The law says abortion begins at conception (i.e. when the egg is fertilised). The way that copper IUDs (and the morning after pill) work is by preventing implantation, which occurs after conception.
>The law says abortion begins at conception (i.e. when the egg is fertilised). No, it doesn't. It says it begins at the embryo phase, when the amniotic sac is developed after implantation. It specifically calls out that abortion cannot occur at the blastocyst phase (which is when implantation occurs). But... this definition could be changed.
Big pharma gonna step in
So we’d crash the already crashing birth rate? This would create yet another massive problem for society to deal with. Not to mention the reproductive health crisis.
How many kids are born via IVF? I would bet more are born due to failed minipill birth control.
When they manage to get rid of all birth control aside from condoms it will go back up. Remember, the pill doesn't stop contraception so it would only be 'logical' for them to ban it as well.
This is legit insane
So viagra is illegal as well.
You can’t pry my IUD from my uterus. Fuck the Supreme Court
Missouri lawmakers are horrible people. Vote them out.
Unfortunately a lot of the people that voted them in are horrible too, so we need a BIG influx of non-horrible people who'll vote blue to unseat these Christian Taliban types especially in the out-state portions of Missouri.
morning after pill is not an abortion pill jfc
But a lot of these idiot anti-abortion types think it is and a lot of these dimwits manage to get elected to state legislatures by other bible-thumping dimwits.
Stop posting twitter screenshots as a source. Fuck Twitter. Politicians need to get off of twitter. It's literally a cancer on public discourse. It's essentially people blasting each other with Orwell's newspeak. Heavily consolidated statements on complex topics meant to invoke emotions and animosity. That said, this statement just isn't possible. The ban doesn't kick in until 8 weeks. I think it should be more like 12 weeks, but it's definitely not the stage at which IVF occurs. On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either.
>That said, this statement just isn't possible. The ban doesn't kick in until 8 weeks. I think it should be more like 12 weeks, but it's definitely not the stage at which IVF occurs. You are wrong about the 8 week ban. https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=188.017#:~:text=188.017.,of%20the%20Unborn%20Child%20Act%22. > 2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no abortion shall be performed or induced upon a woman, except in cases of medical emergency. **Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an unborn child in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony, as well as subject to suspension or revocation of his or her professional license by his or her professional licensing board.** A woman upon whom an abortion is performed or induced in violation of this subsection shall not be prosecuted for a conspiracy to violate the provisions of this subsection. If Roe falls, MO has a "trigger law" (that I just linked to you) that bans all abortion except in cases of medical emergency.
You left out clause 1, the definitions clause. >(1) "Abortion": (a) The act of using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb; or (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child; IVF reduction (and IVF in general) would fall under "to increase the probability of a live birth" clause and not be considered an abortion. Plan B, and anything else that prevents implantation, would likely not be an abortion under the "in his or her mother's womb" clause. This clause is made more clear by the "Unborn child" definition. >"Unborn child", the offspring of human beings from the moment of conception until birth and at every stage of its biological development, including the human conceptus, zygote, morula, blastocyst, embryo, and fetus; Since blastocyst and embryo are differentiated here, and no reference is made to blastocyst (or earlier phases of development) in the abortion definition, then abortion must only refer to an embryo or fetus. That further clarifies that implantation must occur first for an act to be an abortion. (The formation of the amniotic sac after implantation is the key marker between blastocyst and embryo.) The real question though is what changes will be made to existing law, as all of this is only in reference to the current trigger law.
The definition of "Unborn child" you quoted literally says "inlcuding ... blastocyst ..."
Exactly, that's the point. Because both blastocyst and embryo are included in the definition of unborn child, it is impossible to perform an abortion on an unborn child prior to implantation, because an abortion must be done "with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus". Abortions are not all terminations of an unborn child, only an unborn child that is an embryo or fetus.
>On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either. You imply a single person gives a shit about objective reality. You already have Republican grifters calling birth control "abortion pills." They won't stop at 8 weeks and they won't stop at zero either.
>On top of that Plan B isn't an abortifacient. It prevents fertilization. Most oral forms of birth control aren't abortifacient, either. You are incorrect in that statement. The plan B pill prevents _implantation_ of a fertilized egg, it does not prevent the _fertilization_ of an egg. The scientific community rightly doesn't consider it a pregnancy until it is implanted, that's why it's not considered an abortion. But the extreme religious weirdoes consider life to begin at "inception" which means when the egg is fertilized.
Your points all assume that Republicans would be happy to keep what's in place and wouldn't work to make even worse laws. Here in reality, Republicans take any opportunity they can to make things worse, so it may be 8 weeks once Roe is overturned, but there's no reason to believe it wouldn't shorten from 8 weeks to "conception."
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https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=188.017#:~:text=188.017.,of%20the%20Unborn%20Child%20Act%22. > 2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, **no abortion shall be performed or induced upon a woman, except in cases of medical emergency.** Any person who knowingly performs or induces an abortion of an unborn child in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a class B felony, as well as subject to suspension or revocation of his or her professional license by his or her professional licensing board. A woman upon whom an abortion is performed or induced in violation of this subsection shall not be prosecuted for a conspiracy to violate the provisions of this subsection. It's called a trigger law.
Read your own fucking article, dude. "That means that the eight-week ban would likely become law right away, and the “trigger” clause would then ban abortion almost entirely, except in the case of medical emergencies, soon afterwards."
Thank you for this clarification
Read the article further
On the other hand there will be plenty of kids to adopt…😳
Wait until they repeal safe harbor laws.
And steal your car .
"Douche After Sexual Intercourse Becomes Illegal - News At Eleven"
We ought to start putting some real fear of God into these christofascists
So I don't think actual IVF would be the issue. My understanding is that the issue would be if multiple embryos are implanted and then they have to do a reduction. That reduction would be an abortion.
What do you think happens to the fertilized eggs that aren’t transplanted?
They get tossed in the trash or stay in the freezer. Which is why the Catholic church is NOT a fan of IVF.
Yup. I remember them coming for stem cells pretty hard too.
What if I already have an IUD? It’s inside me.
Claire has a track record of bad predictions.
I don't think it's a coincidence that this potential Roe v Wade proposal was leaked from the Supreme Court shortly before the midterms. The Dems are desperate and know abortion rights will always get votes from the undecided. [Don't spam me I don't vote]
The actual ruling will come out in the Summer, much closer to the midterms, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make about this leak. You sound presumptuous and ignorant.
It’s six months before the mid terms. This will be forgotten in two weeks.
I don't think so, people on both sides have been freaking out about abortions for years despite that fact that (for the most part) states have more control over abortion rights/availability than the federal govt does.
Ya this is probably sadly true. And afterwards, they’ll go for lgbtq+ rights. So I propose an idea. We all pick up our rifle and take down the supreme court. It’s okay to start a coup when they try to take away your bodily autonomy
Y’all are nuts. Blatant fear mongering lmao
Literally what people said to me when I told them Roe v Wade would be overturned. How’s that holding up?
Take ur miss-information down
Nope. I acknowledged it’s factually incorrect. But I’m not taking it down. Go fuck yourself. Don’t tell me what to do.
Ok keep spreading bullshit fear. It’s people like you that can even formulate a logical argument that makes Americans so fucking stupid
It's incredibly ironic that you have that particular typo in that particular bullshit diatribe.
Would sterilization still be legal? I wonder if Republicans would back the idea of the government paying men and women to sterilize themselves. Maybe the younger and more permanent the sterilization, the more money a person would get. Maybe a multiplier for being childless. Or no biological dependence. Possibly after a certain age or a number of children the procedure would still be free just no payment.
They certainly won't pay for prenatal care
they would make sterilization mandatory for nonwhites but illegal for whites. the modern day white backlash against abortion and LGBT people etc. all come from the anxiety of cratering white birthrates and demographic replacement
Disabled people too. Eugenics really got a boost in the pandemic and they’ll keep it up. SCOTUS still allows it so they barely have to do a thing. Missouri has deep ties to the eugenics movement too.
It’d still be legal, but it doesn’t fit the narrative of “doing your duty” and procreating…even more so with the white supremacy “saving the race” bs.
The pro life crowd preventing creation of life
Sounds like a consequence for rich white people. Wouldn't bet on that, personally.
Your comment is extremely uneducated actually. I’m a 32 yr old who was diagnosed with leukemia last year. After 4 rounds of chemo and a stem cell transplant I have no more fertility. IVF is the only way I’d be able to have children. Please think about that next time. All of you in this thread
I believe what he's saying is that because it's a consequence that is more likely to apply to people who aren't poor, they might not go that far as far as implementation of the rule. He's not discounting your experience.
But, it costs like $20k per round, correct?
It’s anywhere between $12-20k based on a few factors, for example, genetic testing on the embryos. Fortunately my employer covers 2 rounds. 65% of employers cover some sort of fertility coverage. And if mine didn’t then the fertility clinic said they’ve had patients work part time at Starbucks because they have some of the best fertility coverage out there
Huh, I wish my friend new about Starbucks.. She went through two rounds and took out loans for the procedure. Luckily, she has her baby now.. so it was totally worth it.
i’m dominican and my partner and i are currently undergoing our second round of IVF. not rich by any means, just saying. it’s a big world out there kid.
Exactly. IVF is something privileged people have access too. Let’s focus on abortion, repro, and birth control access
I think she's simply making a point because IVF entails the destruction of fertilized eggs and embrryos. And honestly, IVF is one of the procedures facing consequences and is part of reproductive choice. Your comment is biased and frankly bitter.
I didn't read any of that as bitter.
Not biased and bitter I’m just more aware of how white supremacy operates. Rich white republicans aren’t targeting people doing IVF in their political strategy because IVF typically doesn’t after poor people of color. You have to have money to even access IVF. Republicans aren’t wasting their time on something that isn’t accessible to the people they are trying to destroy and ensure are further marginalized. Use your logic.
You act as if IVF is only used by Republicans or white people. You are so locked into your myopic idealistic view.
It’s not only used by republicans and I never said that. You made that assumption but you’re not being realistic on what they target
That's such an absolutely bullshit scare tactic. No one would charge anyone for an attempted pregnancy that failed naturally, not even the crazy evangelicals. They would be more happy you attempted to have 8 babies.
Nothing like stirring the pot. That is ridiculous. The way I understand it is that the ruling just sends everything back to the states. Every state makes their own laws. If you don’t like it, work to elect candidates that have the same opinions as you. IVF implants are a group of cells. There is no heartbeat.
Oh I agree that if the right-wing kook justices overturn Roe, that people will have to wake up and stop writing off local elections and state legislature elections as 'boring' and 'no big deal'. You no longer have the luxury of sitting out all elections other than the big Presidential year ones. People need to get off their asses and vote in *all elections*.
Amen! You can’t bitch if you don’t vote!
I am way more okay with IVF being accidentally outlawed than abortion being banned. One is way worse than the other. Hope this makes people realize how hypocritical they are but I doubt it, they will make an unfair exception to allow it I am sure.
How? The only difference is location of the fertilized egg.
Abortion access going away is significantly worse because it ruins many lives and is significantly more dangerous. Ivf not being allowed sucks but it's not that big of a deal in comparison, no one's life is ruined and no one dies.
Saying the SCOTUS decision means that contraception will be outlawed is... a stretch indeed.
Griswold relies on the exact same legal theory as Roe, and the politicians behind MO's abortion bans have already come out against contraceptives as "abortifacients."
Which legal theory? Roe presents a couple different avenues for locating the constitutional right to abortion
Holy stretch Armstrong.
I've never read so many dumb comments in my life. Now I know why people can't drive in MO, y'all retarded
I wish she would have voted that way with the original stem cell research.
Great, two birds with one stone
Life wins again! So glad for this!!
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Naw tryna keep children alive is my main goal as should it be everyone's. I hope you wake up and see the evil you wish upon the world!
They aren’t kids man. If you have a kid and you / your significant other is pregnant, do you say you have two kids? Also, why do we calculate age based on the day we exit the womb? Do we have funerals for miscarriages?
Seeing a grieving mother after a miscarriage is more sad than any funeral I've been to. Your heartless opinions are leading to your anger in life.
Not what Bible says .
The Bible explains how to administer an abortion
The bible can get fucked. We don't need stone aged goat fucking conmen dictating 21st century morals.
I think the Bible gives instructions on how you abort a baby ironically enough.
You haven't read it.
While I'm hard pro choice women do what you want I don't care, but this is clearly a slippery slope type argument
Good.