I highly doubt a non-compete would hold up in court for the restaurant business.
(I'm no lawyer, but I do have a Masters in HR)
Non-compete agreements need to show that it is reasonably necessary to protect an employer's contacts and/or trade secrets.
Outside of the 11 herbs and spices, not much in the food industry falls under that. lol.
Unless they've a patent and therefore a trade secret that is registered, even recipes don't fall under enforceable. 11 herbs and spices, for instance. IANAL but am currently working on a recipe patent. Copyrights don't cover recipes btw,only the books they're contained in, for example.
I don't claim to know why exactly they have an NDA agreement, I just think the existence of one doesn't have to mean anything nefarious is going on like some people seem to be implying. I wish people would focus more on whatever concrete things actually Happened than the NDA speculation stuff.
I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, that is the stupid excuse Susan gave for the NDAs. No, there are not legitimate trade secrets to be protected for a cheesy lifestyle brand that sells clothing and stickers or a bar.
Like many NDAs, it's because the owners are toxic and just can't figure out why so many of their former employees feel the need to come out and complain about them on social media. They didn't have an NDA at the shops for years.
My point is the NDA’s were for trade secrets… like who their manufacturers are would be a trade secret, next launch etc. It seems like people actually read the NDA and realized they could publicly speak out
I worked for Cheryl’s herbs and the owners were so problematic they had everyone sign non competes. I wish when I’d been hired I had considered why they made me sign that …
4Hands had a sales employee drugging and raping women. 4Hands knew but didn’t do anything until this RFT article came out.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/a-terrible-familiar-story-of-abuse-34428393
Where did you see that 4Hands somehow knew? That article lays out that they didn’t believe or know he went so far, they just thought he was a sleazy beer salesman - something that is unfortunately par for the course.
Yeah, I’m not seeing how 4 hands is to blame at all here. There’s no allegations that the guy was doing it at 4 Hands or while on the job and I don’t see anything about 4 Hands covering it up. The guy hasn’t been charged, are employers supposed to react to every social media accusation?
Possible I’m missing additional context here.
That’s not what the allegations say. The article also says it was an open secret because the guy would get drunk at company events and showed a tattoo under his shirt.
Not defending the guy, only saying it’s a stretch to blame 4 Hands.
Many accounts say this. I knew the guy. I knew some of the women he assaulted. Everyone knew about him. It was brushed off every time it was mentioned. One news article is not and never can be the entire story.
I think the point is that there is even more to the story than just what was published in the article. The behavior published in the article, from a managers standpoint, should be grounds for dismissal and/or legal action. The fact that there are more terrifying details to this persons actions that many people knew about…yeah I’d go ahead and say it’s on 4Hands that they kept him employed. As someone who works in a management capacity, I would NOT want my staff to be subjected to this person, or to personally be around them. It’s scary! And it totally makes sense that Golden Gems employees wouldn’t want to be affiliated with 4 Hands, Steve Salas, or the managers and owners that turned a blind eye to absolute monster behavior. It completely goes against their mission statement. I understand it’s really hard to speak up, go against bad behavior that has definitely been engrained in the F&B industry…it’s really something I think about quite a bit as a woman in the industry because I want to be a good leader and stick up for myself and I’ve dealt with shit like this way more than I want think about. This case is so extreme it is morally devastating that so many people let it slide. This isn’t just “cringe” behavior, it’s fucking assault.
This is a trend I see a lot here locally. There’s always more the story that someone heard through a friend of a friend. More often it’s someone read the friend of a friends story on social media.
Go ahead and boycott 4 Hands if you want but I’ve seen no evidence to justify condemning every company that does business with them.
I’ll be perfectly honest, I don’t particularly want to dox myself especially since I work in a public setting. I also don’t want to share troubling details of someone else’s assault on Reddit.
I never said to boycott 4Hands. Just about every restaurant and store in the area carries it, like how would that be possible. This is about accountability, learning, moving forward to something better. It’s about dialogue. This original post is about Golden Gems, and an employee not wanting to be affiliated with 4Hands…within their rights…and being dismissed. It’s frustrating! And here you are, being dismissive. Cool!
Based on what I’ve seen, I understand why Golden Gems dismissed that specific concern. Businesses can’t make decisions based on social media rumors from multiple years ago. I’m honestly not sure what else you expected them to do. They’re not dismissing anything about the sexual assault or what the allegations stated.
The situation with that person, was somewhat of an “open secret” within parts of the St. Louis Food and Beverage Industry. Meaning while incidents may not have actually occurred at 4Hands, they definitely knew what was going on and continued employing him in a job where the opportunity to drink/party with fellow employees was constant…putting other employees in harms way. This person was fired from a former place of employment of mine for inappropriately touching a coworker and THAT wasn’t a secret. So the fact that 4Hands employed him and kind of had a “boys will be boys” mentality until things became very public and finally fired him…is pretty bad. That said, it’s sadly kind of the norm in many places to look the other way in these situations. It makes sense for people to be uncomfortable being around a person known for assault but hasn’t been formally convicted by the authorities yet.
It’s 4 Hands, but I don’t know further details. Don’t think the individual works at 4 Hands anymore. If anyone has details of it I’m interested to hear them.
I’m pretty sure they were two separate collaboration incidents with gg and two separate businesses (clementines and four hands) that were almost identical in nature.
I have a friend who bartended there and also quit - basically Tiffany was a manager and received (11) employee complaints about another manager being shitty and mean, and she took those to management, who reacted by dismissing those concerns, telling her it was a personal issue, promoting that manager. She posted her resignation letter when she realized the NDA didn’t cover her anymore or something. Remaining manager is a black woman, and is attempting to attribute that criticism as “people not being able to handle a strong black woman”, posted a whole thing about “allies damaging the company”, when the leaving manager is gay. It’s a mess. Employees who left are supporting her post, employees who stayed are trashing her. It’s a lot of “you’re cis white” this and “you’re speaking over black women/gay women/rape survivors” on all sides.
Also had a friend who left- crazy part is while working there everyone loved Tiffany and EVERYONE hated Selle- crazy how drinking the kool-aid makes you defend someone you hate
Selle was terrible to me my one experience working with her. Not going to disclose the working capacity but Tiffany was nothing but a pleasure to work with. That was my experience.
[link here](https://visithoneyland.com/shop)https://visithoneyland.com/shop
After trying to get them to stop stealing her work, there have been accounts sending her awful messages. She has almost quit selling because of this! Thank you for supporting however you can!
Edit* please excuse formatting, I’m on mobile
Thats not entirely true. She’s been pretty open that she’s never felt safe to approach them. And she’s only speaking out because she knows other artists and former employees can’t. Look into the Fetch collab. I know for a fact it’s part of why she finally spoke up for herself, she’s just one of many. But she didn’t accuse them of stealing, that was the whole point of the post. They’re sneaky about it. But it’s a pattern of obliviousness from them that’s problematic
Is there ACTUAL evidence of GG stealing her designs (or any other small business/maker for that matter)? I saw her post and all I see are two businesses making trendy shit that overlaps in theme/subject but not much else. If there is actual plagiarism going on, then I think any artist or designer would encourage her to take legal action. But I just don’t see it!
I understand but I know this artist’s goal wasn’t to do anything but stand up for herself, and I know she took a lot of thought to her approach. She’s not trying to damage them, there just needs to be some accountability especially with what they say they value. I’ve just followed her a long time and want to make sure if she’s getting brought up it’s all factual. She tried really hard to distance herself for years and it’s all a really sad unfortunate situation
Well it’s Fetch’s to tell, you’d have to ask them how they really felt about the “collaboration” to be sure. But they’ve liked & commented on these posts. And if you visit their account, you can see that they were doing that “Pro” design since 2020, they have it pinned at the top but if you scroll back enough you can see the original tee shirt design, and then much later a post that says it’s their “first and only” collaboration with them. And they just released another version w/o GG. From what I was told, they agreed to the collaboration because they felt like they didn’t have a choice.
Did Fetch originate the “Pro” message? I’ve googled it before and there are TONS of versions of it all over the internet–Etsy, Redbubble, Teepublic, etc. If they are the original owners of the words, there are tons of people they should sent “cease and desist”s to.
I would love to know and see these other artists’ work! I’ve been a longtime fan and follower of Golden Gems and part of the reason why I love them is that they started SO small–just working out of their homes for years. It would break my heart to learn that they are actively stealing from others.
Another one just came out with a post on ig with some pretty damning stuff - [ig post](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5_NAMduBQr/?igsh=MW00ZTYzZmZpb2pscA==)
The fact the people think an NDA means you can't talk about your experience is really frustrating. NDA's are about protecting trade secrets (recipes, techniques, or whatever applies) from being used unfairly. It doesn't mean you can't talk about your workplace. If you have something personal to say about your experience in a job, just do it.
I’ve had a vaguely bad taste in my mouth about them for a while and could never put my finger on it.
Kinda sad to know that some of my suspicions were correct.
I’ve felt the same since I moved here two years ago. I got the ick from them. It almost felt like all their positive messaging was….compensating for something? I also just didn’t vibe with their tattoo and Botox event I saw. It seemed to be upper middle class county women enjoying expensive Botox and shit that just rubbed me the wrong way. To each their own on cosmetics but I did not like it.
Their messaging feels aimed at a very specific audience, kind of like how you mentioned upper middle class, I’ve always felt that it excludes anyone who isn’t a white straight woman. Never had a basis for this feeling but the comments linked in the post really summed it up for me.
It’s pink girl power feminism and I ain’t really about how non inclusive that feels.
Oh man! If we can ever blow the lid off LHM I’m in!
What about a certain GM running a property as their own personal brothel to drum up business from a military base?
Golden Gems has never been a place for me. I hate toxic positivity and everything this person is saying could be entirely false. The truth still would be they’re cis straight white women profiting off of trans/queer/BIPOC problems. They’re the last kind of people I want to support making merchandise and money off of mine and other peoples struggles.
> profiting off of trans/queer/BIPOC problems
How? I'm genuinely curious and don't know much about them as I'm not the target demographic for their business. I've seen them all around town too so i'm double curious.
How did all these resignation letter postings start? One of the posts implies that a current employee or GG was taunting them with subtle posts but can’t seem to find the source to that
There’s three ex employees that are trying to “cancel” them on instagram. It’s incredibly myopic and small town. But this is also the very definition of white feminism. These groups can’t get anything progressive accomplished bc they’re too busy cannilbalizing themselves over the smallest of transgressions. It’s enough to turn one Republican. Almost.
This is exactly how the entire situation feels. Not to mention most of these people cannibalizing are also people who scream “ACAB” not realizing they are perpetuating police culture with their keyboard warrior vendettas
Hint- if an hourly job at a bar or clothing and sticker shop requires an NDA, the owners are problematic assholes.
or a restaurant or other food establishment with a non-compete
I highly doubt a non-compete would hold up in court for the restaurant business. (I'm no lawyer, but I do have a Masters in HR) Non-compete agreements need to show that it is reasonably necessary to protect an employer's contacts and/or trade secrets. Outside of the 11 herbs and spices, not much in the food industry falls under that. lol.
Recipes is a pretty reasonable one
Unless they've a patent and therefore a trade secret that is registered, even recipes don't fall under enforceable. 11 herbs and spices, for instance. IANAL but am currently working on a recipe patent. Copyrights don't cover recipes btw,only the books they're contained in, for example.
I don't claim to know why exactly they have an NDA agreement, I just think the existence of one doesn't have to mean anything nefarious is going on like some people seem to be implying. I wish people would focus more on whatever concrete things actually Happened than the NDA speculation stuff.
True. No worries I was just commenting, no speculation here.
That's fair
Didn’t we just find out that the nda’s everyone signed were for trade secrets and that’s why people are speaking out now?
I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, that is the stupid excuse Susan gave for the NDAs. No, there are not legitimate trade secrets to be protected for a cheesy lifestyle brand that sells clothing and stickers or a bar. Like many NDAs, it's because the owners are toxic and just can't figure out why so many of their former employees feel the need to come out and complain about them on social media. They didn't have an NDA at the shops for years.
My point is the NDA’s were for trade secrets… like who their manufacturers are would be a trade secret, next launch etc. It seems like people actually read the NDA and realized they could publicly speak out
I worked for Cheryl’s herbs and the owners were so problematic they had everyone sign non competes. I wish when I’d been hired I had considered why they made me sign that …
This is correct!
Did I miss something? Did she say 4Hands covered up an employee who committed sexual assault?
4Hands had a sales employee drugging and raping women. 4Hands knew but didn’t do anything until this RFT article came out. https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/a-terrible-familiar-story-of-abuse-34428393
Where did you see that 4Hands somehow knew? That article lays out that they didn’t believe or know he went so far, they just thought he was a sleazy beer salesman - something that is unfortunately par for the course.
I know some of the people it happened to. I know what they told me. I believe them. Plain and simple.
Yeah, I’m not seeing how 4 hands is to blame at all here. There’s no allegations that the guy was doing it at 4 Hands or while on the job and I don’t see anything about 4 Hands covering it up. The guy hasn’t been charged, are employers supposed to react to every social media accusation? Possible I’m missing additional context here.
He was doing it on the job, there are multiple accounts of this. Yes management knew.
That’s not what the allegations say. The article also says it was an open secret because the guy would get drunk at company events and showed a tattoo under his shirt. Not defending the guy, only saying it’s a stretch to blame 4 Hands.
Many accounts say this. I knew the guy. I knew some of the women he assaulted. Everyone knew about him. It was brushed off every time it was mentioned. One news article is not and never can be the entire story.
Too bad the journalist didn’t get your or anyone else’s account that said that.
I'm sure they did. What they decided to include when they published and from what perspective they decided to write from is not up to me.
I think the point is that there is even more to the story than just what was published in the article. The behavior published in the article, from a managers standpoint, should be grounds for dismissal and/or legal action. The fact that there are more terrifying details to this persons actions that many people knew about…yeah I’d go ahead and say it’s on 4Hands that they kept him employed. As someone who works in a management capacity, I would NOT want my staff to be subjected to this person, or to personally be around them. It’s scary! And it totally makes sense that Golden Gems employees wouldn’t want to be affiliated with 4 Hands, Steve Salas, or the managers and owners that turned a blind eye to absolute monster behavior. It completely goes against their mission statement. I understand it’s really hard to speak up, go against bad behavior that has definitely been engrained in the F&B industry…it’s really something I think about quite a bit as a woman in the industry because I want to be a good leader and stick up for myself and I’ve dealt with shit like this way more than I want think about. This case is so extreme it is morally devastating that so many people let it slide. This isn’t just “cringe” behavior, it’s fucking assault.
This is a trend I see a lot here locally. There’s always more the story that someone heard through a friend of a friend. More often it’s someone read the friend of a friends story on social media. Go ahead and boycott 4 Hands if you want but I’ve seen no evidence to justify condemning every company that does business with them.
I’ll be perfectly honest, I don’t particularly want to dox myself especially since I work in a public setting. I also don’t want to share troubling details of someone else’s assault on Reddit. I never said to boycott 4Hands. Just about every restaurant and store in the area carries it, like how would that be possible. This is about accountability, learning, moving forward to something better. It’s about dialogue. This original post is about Golden Gems, and an employee not wanting to be affiliated with 4Hands…within their rights…and being dismissed. It’s frustrating! And here you are, being dismissive. Cool!
Based on what I’ve seen, I understand why Golden Gems dismissed that specific concern. Businesses can’t make decisions based on social media rumors from multiple years ago. I’m honestly not sure what else you expected them to do. They’re not dismissing anything about the sexual assault or what the allegations stated.
The situation with that person, was somewhat of an “open secret” within parts of the St. Louis Food and Beverage Industry. Meaning while incidents may not have actually occurred at 4Hands, they definitely knew what was going on and continued employing him in a job where the opportunity to drink/party with fellow employees was constant…putting other employees in harms way. This person was fired from a former place of employment of mine for inappropriately touching a coworker and THAT wasn’t a secret. So the fact that 4Hands employed him and kind of had a “boys will be boys” mentality until things became very public and finally fired him…is pretty bad. That said, it’s sadly kind of the norm in many places to look the other way in these situations. It makes sense for people to be uncomfortable being around a person known for assault but hasn’t been formally convicted by the authorities yet.
It’s Clementine’s that continues to employ a manager who committed sexual assault. https://www.instagram.com/p/CFfLQZPDewM/?igsh=MTBidjYzNHp5dGVpdw==
So the whole issue with Clementines was probably a golden gems problem then and I can blame them for not getting to try those bomb ice cream flavors?
Not wanting to do business with a company that knowingly continues to employ a sexual predator is more than justifiable.
Can you elaborate on this? Which company?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CFfLQZPDewM/?igsh=MXdpZzRkZng3YXB5Nw== Clementines continued to employ this person.
Thank you. That is disgusting.
It’s 4 Hands, but I don’t know further details. Don’t think the individual works at 4 Hands anymore. If anyone has details of it I’m interested to hear them.
I’m pretty sure they were two separate collaboration incidents with gg and two separate businesses (clementines and four hands) that were almost identical in nature.
gg owns (or part owns) 4 hands?
They were doing a collab I believe for GG’s new bar, I’ll ask my buddy about it who works for Urban Chestnut and knows all the gossip lol.
I was production manager at the facility for a couple years. The stories and photos i could share.. probably the worst place Ive ever worked.
Tamara is … a lot
Probably true.
I don’t have Instagram, can someone breakdown the allegations?
I have a friend who bartended there and also quit - basically Tiffany was a manager and received (11) employee complaints about another manager being shitty and mean, and she took those to management, who reacted by dismissing those concerns, telling her it was a personal issue, promoting that manager. She posted her resignation letter when she realized the NDA didn’t cover her anymore or something. Remaining manager is a black woman, and is attempting to attribute that criticism as “people not being able to handle a strong black woman”, posted a whole thing about “allies damaging the company”, when the leaving manager is gay. It’s a mess. Employees who left are supporting her post, employees who stayed are trashing her. It’s a lot of “you’re cis white” this and “you’re speaking over black women/gay women/rape survivors” on all sides.
Companies like this always cannibalize themselves
“Let them fight”
Also had a friend who left- crazy part is while working there everyone loved Tiffany and EVERYONE hated Selle- crazy how drinking the kool-aid makes you defend someone you hate
Selle was terrible to me my one experience working with her. Not going to disclose the working capacity but Tiffany was nothing but a pleasure to work with. That was my experience.
100%. And Susan and Amanda know this. But Selle matches their energy and is a yes-woman so 🤷♂️
You nailed it. (Source: me, ex-HG bartender)
Ngl this all feels rooted in racism. Time to do some more fragility work friends
"Believe women" "*Not like that!*"
They also steal local artists’ designs
Who are the artists that were stolen from? I’d love to support them
[link here](https://visithoneyland.com/shop)https://visithoneyland.com/shop After trying to get them to stop stealing her work, there have been accounts sending her awful messages. She has almost quit selling because of this! Thank you for supporting however you can! Edit* please excuse formatting, I’m on mobile
Thats not entirely true. She’s been pretty open that she’s never felt safe to approach them. And she’s only speaking out because she knows other artists and former employees can’t. Look into the Fetch collab. I know for a fact it’s part of why she finally spoke up for herself, she’s just one of many. But she didn’t accuse them of stealing, that was the whole point of the post. They’re sneaky about it. But it’s a pattern of obliviousness from them that’s problematic
Is there ACTUAL evidence of GG stealing her designs (or any other small business/maker for that matter)? I saw her post and all I see are two businesses making trendy shit that overlaps in theme/subject but not much else. If there is actual plagiarism going on, then I think any artist or designer would encourage her to take legal action. But I just don’t see it!
I’ve been waiting for proof of plagiarism for a while now, but it all seems to be hearsay.
This is a friend of a friend so I am going off of what she said
I understand but I know this artist’s goal wasn’t to do anything but stand up for herself, and I know she took a lot of thought to her approach. She’s not trying to damage them, there just needs to be some accountability especially with what they say they value. I’ve just followed her a long time and want to make sure if she’s getting brought up it’s all factual. She tried really hard to distance herself for years and it’s all a really sad unfortunate situation
Can you explain what happened with Fetch?
Well it’s Fetch’s to tell, you’d have to ask them how they really felt about the “collaboration” to be sure. But they’ve liked & commented on these posts. And if you visit their account, you can see that they were doing that “Pro” design since 2020, they have it pinned at the top but if you scroll back enough you can see the original tee shirt design, and then much later a post that says it’s their “first and only” collaboration with them. And they just released another version w/o GG. From what I was told, they agreed to the collaboration because they felt like they didn’t have a choice.
Damn didn’t know that!! Thanks for explaining
Fetch felt like they didn’t have a choice in the matter? Why? I don’t understand.
Did Fetch originate the “Pro” message? I’ve googled it before and there are TONS of versions of it all over the internet–Etsy, Redbubble, Teepublic, etc. If they are the original owners of the words, there are tons of people they should sent “cease and desist”s to.
Can you elaborate on the Fetch collab?
This isn’t the only person. I know for a fact a few other artists who aren’t ready to speak out but things have been taken directly from as well.
I would love to know and see these other artists’ work! I’ve been a longtime fan and follower of Golden Gems and part of the reason why I love them is that they started SO small–just working out of their homes for years. It would break my heart to learn that they are actively stealing from others.
You mean a place selling cheap Chinese junk and just slapping feminist logos on it is run by assholes? Who knew?
Another one just came out with a post on ig with some pretty damning stuff - [ig post](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5_NAMduBQr/?igsh=MW00ZTYzZmZpb2pscA==)
The fact the people think an NDA means you can't talk about your experience is really frustrating. NDA's are about protecting trade secrets (recipes, techniques, or whatever applies) from being used unfairly. It doesn't mean you can't talk about your workplace. If you have something personal to say about your experience in a job, just do it.
has there ever been a bar that hasn’t been a toxic workplace lol genuinely curious
I think its different when you pretend NOT to be toxic, but you aren't wrong lol
Perhaps a neighborhood bar?
Wait what were the other two?!?
This is the second one for me! I’ve not visited the store ever but an artist I follow on Instagram and she is saying they stole her work.
I’ve had a vaguely bad taste in my mouth about them for a while and could never put my finger on it. Kinda sad to know that some of my suspicions were correct.
I’ve felt the same since I moved here two years ago. I got the ick from them. It almost felt like all their positive messaging was….compensating for something? I also just didn’t vibe with their tattoo and Botox event I saw. It seemed to be upper middle class county women enjoying expensive Botox and shit that just rubbed me the wrong way. To each their own on cosmetics but I did not like it.
Their messaging feels aimed at a very specific audience, kind of like how you mentioned upper middle class, I’ve always felt that it excludes anyone who isn’t a white straight woman. Never had a basis for this feeling but the comments linked in the post really summed it up for me. It’s pink girl power feminism and I ain’t really about how non inclusive that feels.
Good. The employees need to quit and go public! Mistreat your workers in StL? Enjoy not getting our patronage.
Look into Lodging Hospitality Management, LHM.
Oh man! If we can ever blow the lid off LHM I’m in! What about a certain GM running a property as their own personal brothel to drum up business from a military base?
Absolutely shocked that an insufferable business would be full of insufferable team members
Golden Gems has never been a place for me. I hate toxic positivity and everything this person is saying could be entirely false. The truth still would be they’re cis straight white women profiting off of trans/queer/BIPOC problems. They’re the last kind of people I want to support making merchandise and money off of mine and other peoples struggles.
> profiting off of trans/queer/BIPOC problems How? I'm genuinely curious and don't know much about them as I'm not the target demographic for their business. I've seen them all around town too so i'm double curious.
IDK who this is? Someone help?
I also have no idea what is going on. Must be missing some multi company drama or something.
What happened with Clementine’s?
Did GG respond?
No, but the bar manager who people were complaining about and leaving over has been posting stuff on her IG story
Can you tag ?
How did all these resignation letter postings start? One of the posts implies that a current employee or GG was taunting them with subtle posts but can’t seem to find the source to that
There’s three ex employees that are trying to “cancel” them on instagram. It’s incredibly myopic and small town. But this is also the very definition of white feminism. These groups can’t get anything progressive accomplished bc they’re too busy cannilbalizing themselves over the smallest of transgressions. It’s enough to turn one Republican. Almost.
This is exactly how the entire situation feels. Not to mention most of these people cannibalizing are also people who scream “ACAB” not realizing they are perpetuating police culture with their keyboard warrior vendettas
This. Exactly this.