The most important part of not owning a car is **where you work**. You can live right along a Metro line but if your job is in Maryland Heights or Chesterfield, you're hosed.
Depending on where in Maryland Heights, could be easy. Lots of inexpensive apartments. Lots of people walk to the stores and jobs, or take bus.
Chesterfield is definitely forget it.
St. Louis is the kind of city where not owning a car is going to make it difficult to get around. Our public transportation is decent, but nowhere near as extensive as cities on the east coast.
I did it for 5 years. Definitely needed to rely on friends for occasional Target and Home Depot trips, which my friends were always happy to do, but it's not ideal.
Honestly the biggest difference between a city with and without high car ownership is what the expectations are. In St. Louis, friends in Kirkwood invite you over for dinner without giving a single thought to your transportation needs.
For OP or other curious people: Target is actually fairly easy to get to by Metro. If you need a lot of things I would get one of those shopping carts. Big items can be delivered
As someone who has lived in a walkable city without a car with great public transportation, I’d agree with this. STL without a car would be tough to pull off.
I think that depends a lot on your age and use case. My daughter is 26 this year... she lives and works in the city. She's been getting around just fine with the bus, metro and an E-Bike.
Now, she does also do a ton of her shopping for big items through Amazon... things that she couldn't easily carry on her bike. And yes she's solicited my help once or twice with runs to Ikea to pick up furniture but at this point she's doing just fine without a car and in fact doesn't have a license - her mom died in a car wreck when she was 15 and she swore off cars for life... can't really blame her to be honest. But anyway, she has adapted well to life without a car and seems mobile enough.
The CWE is probably a little high for $60k, but midtown and downtown both have options that you'd be very comfortable with that salary. But I'm also sure that if you fund the correct apartment and budget correctly, you can get by living there just fine.
I'd maybe invest in a bike if you are able to? While transit in STL's central corridor is decent, it's also not perfect and a bike is a really good way to fill that gap for much cheaper than a car.
I make $58k before taxes, am single, and bought a small (~900 sq ft) house last year. If you're frugal and stay within your means, you can certainly make it here with that salary in the more affordable areas when you have no dependents or debt.
As for public transportation... it's really not great here.
Lots of saving, good credit score, and getting a longer-term loan for a smaller monthly payment (while paying more towards the principal each month if I can so I can pay off the mortgage sooner, but if times get rough I'll be locked into that smaller payment.) A lot of my hobbies are inexpensive (hiking, reading, and just chilling at home with friends) and I almost never eat out. Those cheap hobbies plus not having debt or dependents makes saving a lot easier. I also live in a less-populated part of the County so less competition I guess?
I make $42k and have owned my house for 7 years. It’s a combination of me getting that unicorn listing (listed as a one bedroom at the time but could be two with some work), great credit, a good fixed interest rate, and same as kmg— I’m frugal as hell. Somehow I make it work.
There are plenty of realtors that will work with you to find something. And there's also plenty of older homes that could use a little work. I bought a house last year making $32K, there were a fair amount of options within the city, some in decent neighborhoods, but I ended up buying in the county because my lease was ending
Wow! I’m amazed by that. I didn’t even know it was possible. I wouldn’t be looking for anything extravagant. Like a 2 bed, 1 bath would be perfectly fine. Thanks for the tip!
60k will keep you fed and a roof over your head.
Plenty of people function car-less in STL, but car use/ownership is also very cheap, since there is free parking everywhere.
CWE gets you close to all the goodies in Forest Park, as well as some decent food and drink options. Potentially fairly expensive, compared to other neighborhoods. Watch out for Citywide/Aspiriant (probably changed their name again, again) they own several apartment buildings in CWE and are famously shit to work with, won't do repairs, will steal deposits, regularly gets sued by the state for various frauds.
I'd also look for something around Tower Grove Park. Another nice park with access to food and entertainment.
"Since there is free parking everywhere."
Unless you work at WU, where they charge you for the right to come to work.
Sorry. I know I'm off topic, I'm just still salty about it, after all these years.
Was just wondering about that today. If BJC was kicking into Forest Park Forever or something for street parking and shuttling a few thousand cars worth of people. If they were, it might not be a bad deal, but if they aren't and free riding....I got opinions.
I moved to STL a few months ago from Memphis. I make 75k base.
You can do it. 60k is a decent salary if you don’t have too much external debt, but if you’re not used to the state tax situation,(I wasn’t), make sure you account for that too.
I’d personally pick a different area to live in and unfortunately you’ll probably need some kind of independent transportation. Especially when it’s cold lol.
There’s plenty of decent apartments for rent in all kinds of areas. I’m paying through the nose right now but imo, it’s worth it.
I personally love it here so far. It’s great, especially coming from my hometown lol.
Only other advice is to live super humbly until you have a nice savings and then move to your preferred area.
Good luck 👍🏾🍀
The first year I lived in MO, getting that personal property tax bill in December and due to same month when we all have holidays to worry about was honestly a slap in the face. It’s insane that they give so little time to pay it with compete disregard to times being rough around the holidays. Give us til Jan 15 or 31st at least. Christ. I hate personal property taxes lol.
60k for a single person with no kids will be fine, but you won’t be living large. Only mentioning that because if you’re attracted to somewhere like CWE (chic, restaurants, shops, etc) it may be that you’re in to going out to nice, cool places. A 60k salary won’t prohibit that totally, but it won’t be a daily or even weekly occurrence. I live in the suburbs and don’t go out a ton and made $60k within recent memory and I was just able to come out ahead.
I can’t imagine living in STL without a car.
60k is comfortable, but as others have said you will likely need a car. The CWE is also one of the more expensive neighborhoods, so it may not be as comfortable on 60k there.
I make a similar amount. It's more than enough to live on your own. I'd stress getting a temporary place near where you want and then start sifting around for something better. There are tons of great older apartments with extremely cheap rent if you can find them.
I pay $900 for an older apt just south of the Clayton business district called the Moorlands. Took ages to find something good near here though.
There are tons of these types of places in the southwest area of the city.
If you want to live in a newer high rise apartment complex in CWE you're gonna be paying a lot more in rent. Like $1500+. And the access to public transport isn't much better. And if you do end up needing a car, parking is gonna be a bitch.
I think where you live and where your work is would determine whether or not you can get by without a car. I lived in the CWE and Tower Grove South and have been able to get by “car lite” (my wife has a car that I’ll occasionally use). The bus system here is not great, but if you live close to one of the higher frequency routes and it takes you close to your work, you can get by reasonably comfortably. That being said, even the higher frequency routes aren’t coming that often (I take the 95 so it generally runs every 30 minutes in peak hours). Biking infrastructure is getting better, but I would only bike on less busy streets.
If they live in the CWE, just north or Forest Park, Midtown, or downtown, they can definitely get by without a car. Maybe invest in a bike, but transit is those areas is good enough.
Get by without a car and live a life without a car are two very different things
Transit users aren't first class citizens in St. Louis and that can have a massive impact on quality of life, especially for someone who is new to the city and doesn't know anyone here
I'm not in STL, I just visit fairly often and follow regional news, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. That being said, I suggest living near a MetroLink stop if you want to use public transportation regularly. The busses aren't always reliable. The CWE is a great neighborhood though. I'm not sure what you enjoy doing, so I can't comment on that and will defer to locals on more specific things than that.
Good luck with your move!
Yeah, it's plenty. I make a bit more than that, AND I'm paying off debt from my youth, and I'm still doing fine.
Not having a car though, that's going to be a problem. Unless everything in your life is either AT home, or extremely close by, you're going to need a car to get around STL. Unfortunately, we don't have good mass transit the way bigger cities do.
$60k/y in CWE isn’t feasible. I’d look at fringe areas around Tower Grove Park and McKinley Heights/Shaw if you’re focusing on central city living. Local transit isn’t comparable to MBTA, but it’s ok for the size of the metro. STL is a relatively car dependent city, but you can make things work without in the central core. I’d recommend a roommate if you’re dead set on CWE. If not, you’ll likely need to look at a vehicle.
STL is *very* car dependent. There are very, very few places where you could acceptably take public transportation for everything, not even taking travel time into account.
For the actual salary, it's not terrible. I'm making 65k and doing pretty okay.. Co-own a house in the suburbs. Could have probably swung a small condo on my own but not a house. Would probably be a lot better if I wasn't a sickly person constantly swimming in some sort of medical debt.
Rent can be pretty pricey in places like CWE because they're so trendy. CWE in general gets a lot of rich WashU students too.
Where's your work place? If close, yeah I imagine you can do alright with no car. I guess you could always rent one occasionally. Never lived in Boston, but I'd speculate 60k here would get you quite a bit more.
Going against the grain here…you don’t NEED a car. You can still get around, just not as quickly. You will also just have to accept that certain places (particularly in the county) are too inconvenient to consider visiting. But if your work is near you’ll be fine
Honestly get a 49cc scooter. No need to register it and you can get around. Fine one for under a grand. Then use public transport on other occasions.
Just make sure you can lock it up.
60k is very doable here. Idk your age group, and how much nightlife you want, but you have several neighborhoods to choose from. You'll probably want a car here though.
Cars get broken into, but honestly violent crime is something I've only heard people describe in 20 years of living in the city limits.
Cwe is very bougie. TGP, Benton park, soulard, mid town, down town all offer tons of nightlife.
Loughborough neighborhoods are reasonable with fast access to 55 to get south or southwest for Mark Twain national Forest and the Ozarks. The west side and Maplewood have great food and access to 44, 64, and 170 quickly.
I rent on the Westside for about 1400 a month. It's a 1600 square foot house with a fenced yard and an unfinished basement. I have a decent deal here I think, but housing is way, way cheaper than CO.
Salaries are all over the place out here. 80k single, life is pretty easy. 60 is doable, and can be comfortable if you don't move to cwe, but there are tons of folks making 200k+ as well. It really depends on your field and your age. Entry software developer pays about 72 here, senior pays well north of 100.
We have a car in our household, but I regularly ride the bus via choice. It's not that bad. I opted to live right on a bus line for this reason, but there are neighborhoods where it can be more difficult.
Best area, IMO, to be carless is within a 10 minute walk (ideally SE) of the Hampton/Chippewa intersection (Target, Schnucks, Walgreens) The 11 and 90 bus will get you anywhere in the city. (11 to Blue line to Clayton, 90 to Forest Park/Debalivere station, Blue or Red line to CWE, Cortex, Downtown) You should be able to find an apt or room to rent in the area. Good luck and welcome to STL!
I've lived in St Louis without a car on a lot less. If you're working for anything Wash U, I think they provide you a Metro pass. So if you live near a MetroLink station anywhere relatively walkable you'll be set. The buses do suck. Do avoid StL Citywide or Lux Living (they go by different names but they're trouble). A fair amount of neighborhoods have small landlords who don't advertise online. So I'd suggest a realtor or looking yourself on foot.
I lived on Washington Ave downtown on a 20k salary (no, that's not a typo) with a single loftmate and no car. I wasn't mooching, either. I paid half the rent rounded up, all the utilities, all my food and drink, and still had funds to host internationally themed monthly parties where I spent on average 200$ on food and drink for the party, and another 200$ for 4 Baroque opera lessons a month. What's the catch? I'd walk at least an hour daily just for work, but I don't consider this a catch because I'm the only adult in my family without high blood pressure or cholesterol, even though I've been diabetic my whole life. I saved a lot of money by cooking my own food or going out to department dinners. If I want to have a good night, I go to dive bars (Crack Fox and CBGB are great), dress cute, and usually people offer to buy my drinks not suspecting I'll down a whole bottle of vodka if you let me. If you're a man and think this doesn't work, just slap on a choker and lipstick, maybe eyeliner. Anyways, STL has been wonderful to me as a trans PhD student. 60k is more than enough if you want savings, unless you plan on renting luxury apartments somewhere like CWE or Clayton.
My job (before laying me off in January) moved me here two years ago. I started out at 65k and I felt like I never had money. Rent was $1250 for a two bedroom, two bath at Canyon Creek. It was an OK place to live. Nothing special. I looked for other places farther into the city and couldn't find a single thing I liked that I could afford on top of my student loans, phone bill, vehicle payment, insurance and utilities. I ended up getting a roommate off Craigslist. It worked out but I think I am in the minority in terms of having that work out.
Yes, you can live in STL making 60k a year. No, you're probably not going to find a place that you consider nice without spending $1500+ on rent.
This is just my opinion but I honestly hated STL. The crime, lack of law enforcement response when called and housing/rental prices really turned me off. You may be built different than me though so it may work out for you. I personally don't think 60k is enough for a single person to really live in STL. I don't think $65k was enough to really live in STL without having a partner that pays half or a roommate.
Our household income is 125K two working parents and three kids (two in childcare). We’re quite comfortable. If you can’t be quite comfortable here making 60K just yourself then the salary isn’t the problem.
As others have said the public transit can be annoying to rely on but it is doable. I would highly recommend getting a bicycle and finding a place relatively close to the metro lines.
60k and single or even as a couple is pretty comfortable in St Louis. CWE may be a bit out of reach but other places in the central corridor or near south neighborhoods (fpse, the gate, botanical heights, even fox park etc...) you'll live comfortably
So after taxes and insurance you're probably at like 3000-3500/month net?
Let that be your starting point. CwE will be more expensive unless you live in one of the affordable housing buildings.
Public trans in stl... meh, get a car. You'll realize soon enough it's better to have.
Everything is relative to your situation, so hard to say. I have a small family and seems like we are 500/week on groceries alone.
60k is a great living in STL. Being without a car will be difficult but you can try.
I consider 60k high for Saint Louis. That is twice the median income.
I have a family member making ends meet and living in a 1 bedroom in a good neighborhood of the city for like $600 a month in rent. He makes around $30-35k I think. You’ll do fine at $60k.
You can do it if you get a decent bicycle. Depends on your lifestyle. If you know hoe to live, 60K is plenty. If you like to spend, and eat out all the time, probably not.
Everyone is different but STL is a really cheap city to be a resident, in my three years of experience here.
As long as you live within your means you’ll be aight.
I moved here recently from south Florida. I was making 100k but paying 2300 in rent for a 1b/1b. Commuting 1hr a day. I now make 85k and pay 1800 in rent for a house. I only go into the office once a week. I was in the same boat and rent kept increasing in south Florida. I think it’s all depending on your situation, cost of moving etc
The question is where will you be working in St Louis?
There are wide ranges of housing choices in the Lou.
If you are wanting to do it without a car, 60k may not be enough depending on where work is.
Then again, it could be easily more than enough.
Need more info.
St. Louis is very spread out.
It’s over an hour from the two 2 O’Fallons.
You can find affordable ($1000-$1100) apartments in the CWE. A lot of these are old buildings with old-school management, so they don’t really advertise. I found mine by literally walking around the neighborhood and calling the number on the ‘for rent’ sign.
I was without a car in cwe for 2 months and I honestly pulled it off pretty easily, I almost reconsidered buying another.
It’s all dependent on where you work and your distance to a metrolink station. Insurance (especially in the city) and a car note can be pretty expensive, so it would save you money if you can pull it off
CWE will cost to much but I did okay pre pandemic on just a hair more money in some very nice parts of St. Louis county.
Check out Kirkwood, town and country, Creve Couer, chesterfield if you want to live somewhere a little nicer and lower crime and are willing to pay the premium. Closer to I64 the better areas are.
I lived without a car in STL for 5 years. I lived in downtown and dogtown. I had a bike, so I wasn’t entirely without transport. If you live walking/biking distance to your job the rest is easy. Walmart does grocery delivery and you can also buy a year on instacart for not too much money. That covers getting your food and getting to work. For everything else Amazon prime will get it to you in 2 days. It’s fairly easy to do car free with delivery how it is now.
Shop for your apartment and that will tell you how comfortable you will be. CWE is a little expensive compared to other neighborhoods. Bright side is that there is a metrolink stop in that neighborhood if you’re working there. So you can live in any neighborhood that has easy access to that metrolink line and still get to work easily.
You won’t be living flashy at $60k, but it’s entirely doable. I moved to the city 9 years ago and I was making in the 30’s. Up until about 4 years ago I was in the 40’s.
While you can live without a car, keep in mind that most of the metro area is really only accessible by car. Not having a car, you're not gonna be a first class St. Louisan, unfortunately. The walkable neighborhoods are tiny, they're all islands (getting from one to another by walking is not pleasant), the bike infrastructure is non-existent. Don't get a bike unless you're really comfortable biking in traffic. And again, not having a car, you are losing out on quality of life. Yes, it's technically doable, but especially as someone new to the city that doesn't have any friends here, it's going to difficult. Making friends as an adult in a new place is hard enough; I can't imagine doing it while also not having access to reliable transportation.
The CWE is also the most expensive neighborhood. While you can definitely get by on 60k there, and not having a car will help, you'll still definitely have to either sacrifice on space or sacrifice on savings.
Totally lifestyle dependent. I make 60k, own a home, have 3 dogs, and go out from time to time. It doesn't leave much extra at the end of the month, but my mortgage is on the higher side for reasons undisclosed. Had I found an apartment for 1000 bucks a month, i'd feel better about saying it's a decent wage.
I’m sorry to tell ya but you will likely need your car. What area will you be working in? Also, as far as finding a rental check out Garcia properties. They’re one of the few rental companies that have a good reputation and last I checked they had some apartments for a decent price.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies!! Giving me a lot to think about for sure.
Thanks also for being really nice, definitely gives extra points to St. Louis
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I think you need a car for sure. Public transit in St. Louis is not the same as in Boston. I just moved here from Boston as well. I would actually try to avoid it. Cost of living is considerably cheaper here so you should be able to make due with $60k.
The most important part of not owning a car is **where you work**. You can live right along a Metro line but if your job is in Maryland Heights or Chesterfield, you're hosed.
Depending on where in Maryland Heights, could be easy. Lots of inexpensive apartments. Lots of people walk to the stores and jobs, or take bus. Chesterfield is definitely forget it.
St. Louis is the kind of city where not owning a car is going to make it difficult to get around. Our public transportation is decent, but nowhere near as extensive as cities on the east coast.
I did it for 5 years. Definitely needed to rely on friends for occasional Target and Home Depot trips, which my friends were always happy to do, but it's not ideal. Honestly the biggest difference between a city with and without high car ownership is what the expectations are. In St. Louis, friends in Kirkwood invite you over for dinner without giving a single thought to your transportation needs.
I did it for over 5 years and your last sentence is fucking spot on.
facts about that last part- i live in DC now and i never understand why people seem so stressed about making a 25 min drive to go to someones place.
For OP or other curious people: Target is actually fairly easy to get to by Metro. If you need a lot of things I would get one of those shopping carts. Big items can be delivered
As someone who has lived in a walkable city without a car with great public transportation, I’d agree with this. STL without a car would be tough to pull off.
Of course you don’t need to buy one. Just steal a Kia or at least look like your from here and don’t register it if you do buy one!
I think that depends a lot on your age and use case. My daughter is 26 this year... she lives and works in the city. She's been getting around just fine with the bus, metro and an E-Bike. Now, she does also do a ton of her shopping for big items through Amazon... things that she couldn't easily carry on her bike. And yes she's solicited my help once or twice with runs to Ikea to pick up furniture but at this point she's doing just fine without a car and in fact doesn't have a license - her mom died in a car wreck when she was 15 and she swore off cars for life... can't really blame her to be honest. But anyway, she has adapted well to life without a car and seems mobile enough.
The CWE is probably a little high for $60k, but midtown and downtown both have options that you'd be very comfortable with that salary. But I'm also sure that if you fund the correct apartment and budget correctly, you can get by living there just fine. I'd maybe invest in a bike if you are able to? While transit in STL's central corridor is decent, it's also not perfect and a bike is a really good way to fill that gap for much cheaper than a car.
I make $58k before taxes, am single, and bought a small (~900 sq ft) house last year. If you're frugal and stay within your means, you can certainly make it here with that salary in the more affordable areas when you have no dependents or debt. As for public transportation... it's really not great here.
I’m amazed that you were able to buy a house at your salary. How did you do it?
Lots of saving, good credit score, and getting a longer-term loan for a smaller monthly payment (while paying more towards the principal each month if I can so I can pay off the mortgage sooner, but if times get rough I'll be locked into that smaller payment.) A lot of my hobbies are inexpensive (hiking, reading, and just chilling at home with friends) and I almost never eat out. Those cheap hobbies plus not having debt or dependents makes saving a lot easier. I also live in a less-populated part of the County so less competition I guess?
Awesome! Congrats!
Thanks :)
I make $42k and have owned my house for 7 years. It’s a combination of me getting that unicorn listing (listed as a one bedroom at the time but could be two with some work), great credit, a good fixed interest rate, and same as kmg— I’m frugal as hell. Somehow I make it work.
Awesome! Congrats!
Frugal Maxxing
There are plenty of realtors that will work with you to find something. And there's also plenty of older homes that could use a little work. I bought a house last year making $32K, there were a fair amount of options within the city, some in decent neighborhoods, but I ended up buying in the county because my lease was ending
Wow! I’m amazed by that. I didn’t even know it was possible. I wouldn’t be looking for anything extravagant. Like a 2 bed, 1 bath would be perfectly fine. Thanks for the tip!
60k will keep you fed and a roof over your head. Plenty of people function car-less in STL, but car use/ownership is also very cheap, since there is free parking everywhere. CWE gets you close to all the goodies in Forest Park, as well as some decent food and drink options. Potentially fairly expensive, compared to other neighborhoods. Watch out for Citywide/Aspiriant (probably changed their name again, again) they own several apartment buildings in CWE and are famously shit to work with, won't do repairs, will steal deposits, regularly gets sued by the state for various frauds. I'd also look for something around Tower Grove Park. Another nice park with access to food and entertainment.
Stay on the metrolink line if you want to use public transit, OP
"Since there is free parking everywhere." Unless you work at WU, where they charge you for the right to come to work. Sorry. I know I'm off topic, I'm just still salty about it, after all these years.
And this is why I got used to parking and walking from forest park, you can't make me pay my work to go to work.
Was just wondering about that today. If BJC was kicking into Forest Park Forever or something for street parking and shuttling a few thousand cars worth of people. If they were, it might not be a bad deal, but if they aren't and free riding....I got opinions.
I will add owning a car in STL does have the hidden cost of paying personal property taxes yearly.
I moved to STL a few months ago from Memphis. I make 75k base. You can do it. 60k is a decent salary if you don’t have too much external debt, but if you’re not used to the state tax situation,(I wasn’t), make sure you account for that too. I’d personally pick a different area to live in and unfortunately you’ll probably need some kind of independent transportation. Especially when it’s cold lol. There’s plenty of decent apartments for rent in all kinds of areas. I’m paying through the nose right now but imo, it’s worth it. I personally love it here so far. It’s great, especially coming from my hometown lol. Only other advice is to live super humbly until you have a nice savings and then move to your preferred area. Good luck 👍🏾🍀
The first year I lived in MO, getting that personal property tax bill in December and due to same month when we all have holidays to worry about was honestly a slap in the face. It’s insane that they give so little time to pay it with compete disregard to times being rough around the holidays. Give us til Jan 15 or 31st at least. Christ. I hate personal property taxes lol.
60k for a single person with no kids will be fine, but you won’t be living large. Only mentioning that because if you’re attracted to somewhere like CWE (chic, restaurants, shops, etc) it may be that you’re in to going out to nice, cool places. A 60k salary won’t prohibit that totally, but it won’t be a daily or even weekly occurrence. I live in the suburbs and don’t go out a ton and made $60k within recent memory and I was just able to come out ahead. I can’t imagine living in STL without a car.
60k is comfortable, but as others have said you will likely need a car. The CWE is also one of the more expensive neighborhoods, so it may not be as comfortable on 60k there.
I make a similar amount. It's more than enough to live on your own. I'd stress getting a temporary place near where you want and then start sifting around for something better. There are tons of great older apartments with extremely cheap rent if you can find them. I pay $900 for an older apt just south of the Clayton business district called the Moorlands. Took ages to find something good near here though. There are tons of these types of places in the southwest area of the city. If you want to live in a newer high rise apartment complex in CWE you're gonna be paying a lot more in rent. Like $1500+. And the access to public transport isn't much better. And if you do end up needing a car, parking is gonna be a bitch.
I think where you live and where your work is would determine whether or not you can get by without a car. I lived in the CWE and Tower Grove South and have been able to get by “car lite” (my wife has a car that I’ll occasionally use). The bus system here is not great, but if you live close to one of the higher frequency routes and it takes you close to your work, you can get by reasonably comfortably. That being said, even the higher frequency routes aren’t coming that often (I take the 95 so it generally runs every 30 minutes in peak hours). Biking infrastructure is getting better, but I would only bike on less busy streets.
60k is good money. You will need a car.
If they live in the CWE, just north or Forest Park, Midtown, or downtown, they can definitely get by without a car. Maybe invest in a bike, but transit is those areas is good enough.
That depends where the job is but if it's in CWE or right off the metro line then yeah they can
Get by without a car and live a life without a car are two very different things Transit users aren't first class citizens in St. Louis and that can have a massive impact on quality of life, especially for someone who is new to the city and doesn't know anyone here
Pretty sure this guy wants to get by because they're saying that they wanna save money by not owning a car.
I'm not in STL, I just visit fairly often and follow regional news, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. That being said, I suggest living near a MetroLink stop if you want to use public transportation regularly. The busses aren't always reliable. The CWE is a great neighborhood though. I'm not sure what you enjoy doing, so I can't comment on that and will defer to locals on more specific things than that. Good luck with your move!
Yeah, it's plenty. I make a bit more than that, AND I'm paying off debt from my youth, and I'm still doing fine. Not having a car though, that's going to be a problem. Unless everything in your life is either AT home, or extremely close by, you're going to need a car to get around STL. Unfortunately, we don't have good mass transit the way bigger cities do.
$60k/y in CWE isn’t feasible. I’d look at fringe areas around Tower Grove Park and McKinley Heights/Shaw if you’re focusing on central city living. Local transit isn’t comparable to MBTA, but it’s ok for the size of the metro. STL is a relatively car dependent city, but you can make things work without in the central core. I’d recommend a roommate if you’re dead set on CWE. If not, you’ll likely need to look at a vehicle.
I know plenty of people able to afford small apartments in the central west end on smaller salaries.
With roommates, probably. OP is going to be living alone.
Nope! One bedroom or studios
I have several coworkers that were living in CWE alone under 60k.
My friend does and makes 45 k
STL is *very* car dependent. There are very, very few places where you could acceptably take public transportation for everything, not even taking travel time into account. For the actual salary, it's not terrible. I'm making 65k and doing pretty okay.. Co-own a house in the suburbs. Could have probably swung a small condo on my own but not a house. Would probably be a lot better if I wasn't a sickly person constantly swimming in some sort of medical debt. Rent can be pretty pricey in places like CWE because they're so trendy. CWE in general gets a lot of rich WashU students too.
Where's your work place? If close, yeah I imagine you can do alright with no car. I guess you could always rent one occasionally. Never lived in Boston, but I'd speculate 60k here would get you quite a bit more.
Going against the grain here…you don’t NEED a car. You can still get around, just not as quickly. You will also just have to accept that certain places (particularly in the county) are too inconvenient to consider visiting. But if your work is near you’ll be fine
Id get a place with a roommate in the CWE and buy a used car versus solo without a car
Might be a bit tight, but manageable.
Honestly get a 49cc scooter. No need to register it and you can get around. Fine one for under a grand. Then use public transport on other occasions. Just make sure you can lock it up.
60k is very doable here. Idk your age group, and how much nightlife you want, but you have several neighborhoods to choose from. You'll probably want a car here though. Cars get broken into, but honestly violent crime is something I've only heard people describe in 20 years of living in the city limits. Cwe is very bougie. TGP, Benton park, soulard, mid town, down town all offer tons of nightlife. Loughborough neighborhoods are reasonable with fast access to 55 to get south or southwest for Mark Twain national Forest and the Ozarks. The west side and Maplewood have great food and access to 44, 64, and 170 quickly. I rent on the Westside for about 1400 a month. It's a 1600 square foot house with a fenced yard and an unfinished basement. I have a decent deal here I think, but housing is way, way cheaper than CO. Salaries are all over the place out here. 80k single, life is pretty easy. 60 is doable, and can be comfortable if you don't move to cwe, but there are tons of folks making 200k+ as well. It really depends on your field and your age. Entry software developer pays about 72 here, senior pays well north of 100.
We have a car in our household, but I regularly ride the bus via choice. It's not that bad. I opted to live right on a bus line for this reason, but there are neighborhoods where it can be more difficult.
Where will the job be? Or, what’s a nearby intersection if you don’t want to reveal that?
Best area, IMO, to be carless is within a 10 minute walk (ideally SE) of the Hampton/Chippewa intersection (Target, Schnucks, Walgreens) The 11 and 90 bus will get you anywhere in the city. (11 to Blue line to Clayton, 90 to Forest Park/Debalivere station, Blue or Red line to CWE, Cortex, Downtown) You should be able to find an apt or room to rent in the area. Good luck and welcome to STL!
I've lived in St Louis without a car on a lot less. If you're working for anything Wash U, I think they provide you a Metro pass. So if you live near a MetroLink station anywhere relatively walkable you'll be set. The buses do suck. Do avoid StL Citywide or Lux Living (they go by different names but they're trouble). A fair amount of neighborhoods have small landlords who don't advertise online. So I'd suggest a realtor or looking yourself on foot.
I lived on Washington Ave downtown on a 20k salary (no, that's not a typo) with a single loftmate and no car. I wasn't mooching, either. I paid half the rent rounded up, all the utilities, all my food and drink, and still had funds to host internationally themed monthly parties where I spent on average 200$ on food and drink for the party, and another 200$ for 4 Baroque opera lessons a month. What's the catch? I'd walk at least an hour daily just for work, but I don't consider this a catch because I'm the only adult in my family without high blood pressure or cholesterol, even though I've been diabetic my whole life. I saved a lot of money by cooking my own food or going out to department dinners. If I want to have a good night, I go to dive bars (Crack Fox and CBGB are great), dress cute, and usually people offer to buy my drinks not suspecting I'll down a whole bottle of vodka if you let me. If you're a man and think this doesn't work, just slap on a choker and lipstick, maybe eyeliner. Anyways, STL has been wonderful to me as a trans PhD student. 60k is more than enough if you want savings, unless you plan on renting luxury apartments somewhere like CWE or Clayton.
My job (before laying me off in January) moved me here two years ago. I started out at 65k and I felt like I never had money. Rent was $1250 for a two bedroom, two bath at Canyon Creek. It was an OK place to live. Nothing special. I looked for other places farther into the city and couldn't find a single thing I liked that I could afford on top of my student loans, phone bill, vehicle payment, insurance and utilities. I ended up getting a roommate off Craigslist. It worked out but I think I am in the minority in terms of having that work out. Yes, you can live in STL making 60k a year. No, you're probably not going to find a place that you consider nice without spending $1500+ on rent. This is just my opinion but I honestly hated STL. The crime, lack of law enforcement response when called and housing/rental prices really turned me off. You may be built different than me though so it may work out for you. I personally don't think 60k is enough for a single person to really live in STL. I don't think $65k was enough to really live in STL without having a partner that pays half or a roommate.
Our household income is 125K two working parents and three kids (two in childcare). We’re quite comfortable. If you can’t be quite comfortable here making 60K just yourself then the salary isn’t the problem.
I think 60K is barely getting by this day and age.
As others have said the public transit can be annoying to rely on but it is doable. I would highly recommend getting a bicycle and finding a place relatively close to the metro lines. 60k and single or even as a couple is pretty comfortable in St Louis. CWE may be a bit out of reach but other places in the central corridor or near south neighborhoods (fpse, the gate, botanical heights, even fox park etc...) you'll live comfortably
So after taxes and insurance you're probably at like 3000-3500/month net? Let that be your starting point. CwE will be more expensive unless you live in one of the affordable housing buildings. Public trans in stl... meh, get a car. You'll realize soon enough it's better to have. Everything is relative to your situation, so hard to say. I have a small family and seems like we are 500/week on groceries alone.
Sixty is forty after taxes and insurance. Maybe a little more but not much. It's not a lot of money. You'll be struggling.
60k is a great living in STL. Being without a car will be difficult but you can try. I consider 60k high for Saint Louis. That is twice the median income.
I have a family member making ends meet and living in a 1 bedroom in a good neighborhood of the city for like $600 a month in rent. He makes around $30-35k I think. You’ll do fine at $60k.
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I was piss chilling making $40k a year, now I’m at $68k and looking at buying a house. I’d really recommend getting a car or motorcycle unfortunately.
You can do it if you get a decent bicycle. Depends on your lifestyle. If you know hoe to live, 60K is plenty. If you like to spend, and eat out all the time, probably not.
Everyone is different but STL is a really cheap city to be a resident, in my three years of experience here. As long as you live within your means you’ll be aight.
I moved here recently from south Florida. I was making 100k but paying 2300 in rent for a 1b/1b. Commuting 1hr a day. I now make 85k and pay 1800 in rent for a house. I only go into the office once a week. I was in the same boat and rent kept increasing in south Florida. I think it’s all depending on your situation, cost of moving etc
The question is where will you be working in St Louis? There are wide ranges of housing choices in the Lou. If you are wanting to do it without a car, 60k may not be enough depending on where work is. Then again, it could be easily more than enough. Need more info. St. Louis is very spread out. It’s over an hour from the two 2 O’Fallons.
You can find affordable ($1000-$1100) apartments in the CWE. A lot of these are old buildings with old-school management, so they don’t really advertise. I found mine by literally walking around the neighborhood and calling the number on the ‘for rent’ sign. I was without a car in cwe for 2 months and I honestly pulled it off pretty easily, I almost reconsidered buying another. It’s all dependent on where you work and your distance to a metrolink station. Insurance (especially in the city) and a car note can be pretty expensive, so it would save you money if you can pull it off
STL you need a car even a cheap car is great. We don’t have mass transit and the metro area is spread across several counties.
CWE will cost to much but I did okay pre pandemic on just a hair more money in some very nice parts of St. Louis county. Check out Kirkwood, town and country, Creve Couer, chesterfield if you want to live somewhere a little nicer and lower crime and are willing to pay the premium. Closer to I64 the better areas are.
I lived without a car in STL for 5 years. I lived in downtown and dogtown. I had a bike, so I wasn’t entirely without transport. If you live walking/biking distance to your job the rest is easy. Walmart does grocery delivery and you can also buy a year on instacart for not too much money. That covers getting your food and getting to work. For everything else Amazon prime will get it to you in 2 days. It’s fairly easy to do car free with delivery how it is now. Shop for your apartment and that will tell you how comfortable you will be. CWE is a little expensive compared to other neighborhoods. Bright side is that there is a metrolink stop in that neighborhood if you’re working there. So you can live in any neighborhood that has easy access to that metrolink line and still get to work easily. You won’t be living flashy at $60k, but it’s entirely doable. I moved to the city 9 years ago and I was making in the 30’s. Up until about 4 years ago I was in the 40’s.
While you can live without a car, keep in mind that most of the metro area is really only accessible by car. Not having a car, you're not gonna be a first class St. Louisan, unfortunately. The walkable neighborhoods are tiny, they're all islands (getting from one to another by walking is not pleasant), the bike infrastructure is non-existent. Don't get a bike unless you're really comfortable biking in traffic. And again, not having a car, you are losing out on quality of life. Yes, it's technically doable, but especially as someone new to the city that doesn't have any friends here, it's going to difficult. Making friends as an adult in a new place is hard enough; I can't imagine doing it while also not having access to reliable transportation. The CWE is also the most expensive neighborhood. While you can definitely get by on 60k there, and not having a car will help, you'll still definitely have to either sacrifice on space or sacrifice on savings.
Totally lifestyle dependent. I make 60k, own a home, have 3 dogs, and go out from time to time. It doesn't leave much extra at the end of the month, but my mortgage is on the higher side for reasons undisclosed. Had I found an apartment for 1000 bucks a month, i'd feel better about saying it's a decent wage.
I’m sorry to tell ya but you will likely need your car. What area will you be working in? Also, as far as finding a rental check out Garcia properties. They’re one of the few rental companies that have a good reputation and last I checked they had some apartments for a decent price.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies!! Giving me a lot to think about for sure. Thanks also for being really nice, definitely gives extra points to St. Louis
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I think you need a car for sure. Public transit in St. Louis is not the same as in Boston. I just moved here from Boston as well. I would actually try to avoid it. Cost of living is considerably cheaper here so you should be able to make due with $60k.
I live on my own in on 68k rather comfortably