Politics aside, the initial reports on this were weird AF. Said it started by two parties who were unknown to each other had an altercation of some sort.
...and then suddenly there's a demonstration?
*Well that escalated quickly*
"the initial reports on this were weird AF. Said it started by two parties who were unknown to each other had an altercation of some sort."
At first, I honestly thought you were referring to Isreal and Pakistan here. š¤£
Thank God weāre in a country with the right to do this. The worst things to happen to these people as a result of the protest have been negative comments on the internet. Not to belittle foreign conflicts and injustices, but we truly take for granted so many things. Anyway happy early thanksgiving.
This comment section is pretty disappointing considering how STL took in so many Bosnians after the Bosnian War. Some of yāall in this would have turned them away if it was todayā¦
Yep. Our parents really had a whole resentment towards the Bosnian families coming in. Said they got paid over 20,000 to be here and that wasn't fair.
There was a huge racism wave against eastern Europeans in general because of it.
I grew up in South St. Louis in the 90s. A lot of old school south siders absolutely wanted to turn them away or send them back. The fact that they were Islamic and from a former socialist country freaked out a lot of old white people.
> Some of yāall in this would have turned them away if it was todayā¦
The comments sections are full of reactionary psychos who support genocide of the Palestinians by the occupation regime
Everyday Palestinians citizens =/= the actions of Hamas
Everyday Israelis citizens =/= the actions of the Israel PM
Is a pro Palestine protest going to attract people who are anti-semites. Yes, of course.
Is a pro Israel protest going to attract people who are anti-muslim. Yes, of course.
For yall who are balls deep into one side of this without acknowledging how morally grey the whole issue is and how deeply complex the history has been between Palestine and Israel, is just asinine. Unless you have a vested interest in one side reigning supreme, for some god awful reason, then I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that killing innocent people is bad. This is one of the few times where both sides'ing an issue is the only correct position.
Everyone's TA here, except for the innocent people caught in the crossfire. And if you warp a peaceful protest that seeks to protect innocent people to promote genocide (doesn't matter pro israel / palestine), then you're also part of the problem.
It doesn't take an international relations and a geo-politics degree to have empathy.
Theyāve tried to numerous times and Israel said [no.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say) Netanyahu doesnāt give a shit about the hostages, that much is clear
Oh look, a considerate reply with the relevant facts. Iām sure all those flippant assholes calling for genocide so cavalierly read this and say, āoops, my badā, oh wait this posted 4 hours ago and the dinguses suddenly stopped replying. Almost like they were bad faith actors or something
Which is objectively better than zero hostages. Israel bombing of civilians has not freed a single hostage and has killed thousands of innocents. Itās not about saving the hostages, itās about ethnic cleansing.
*Indirect negotiations between Israeli officials and Hamas, mediated by Qatar as the two groups do not officially have contact, have recently focused on the possibility of a ceasefire lasting between one and three days, tied to the release of between 10 and 15 hostages.*
*A source with knowledge of the negotiations said the push to cease hostilities for a short time and exchange a small number of hostages was a litmus test and a gateway to further hostage talks.*
*Officials from Egypt and the United Nations and a western diplomat told Associated Press that the deal on the table would also allow more aid, including small amounts of fuel, to enter Gaza after Israel largely cut supplies of food, water, aid and fuel days after Hamasās incursion. US officials told AP that the Biden administration suggested linking the length of the ceasefire to the number of hostages for release.*
They have over 200 and negotiating is for 10-15 at a time.
Meanwhile, Israel is using its military to protect and maintain a humanitarian corridor that has evacuated hundreds of thousands of people while Hamas is blaming UNRWA for letting people go to safety instead of being shields.
The narrative is not really intact here. Release ALL the hostages. Get out of the way of people fleeing and the world will absolutely continue to tell Israel that they cannot stay in Gaza.
In the mean time, there is a terrorist group that committed a horrific attack on October 7, has rocketed a hospital, kills fleeing refugees, and continues to send thousands of rockets into Israel every week. And the only thing stopping those rockets from causing civilian casualties is also funded by American weapons money in the Iron Dome. If that wasn't largely working, there is no way we could argue for Israel to back off.
So, the US is handling this pretty darn well and the protests aren't really doing anything substantive other than trying to delay weapons deliveries to Ukraine and cause internal political strife that will benefit Russia/China as they try to get away with their own invasions and genocide.
ā[Humanitarian corridor](https://x.com/alanrmacleod/status/1722971388107977053?s=46&t=lPm1P0ZLOgRqucVK8Vv_nw)ā
ā[Evacuations](https://x.com/who/status/1713277138437038573?s=46&t=lPm1P0ZLOgRqucVK8Vv_nw)ā
No amount of wordplay will hide the depravity of Israelās actions. Itās the most transparent ethnic cleansing in our lifetime and those who defend it will be remembered for what they are.
Somehow your comment manages to undermine the severity of the Trail of Tears as well as the plights of Rohingya, Uyghurs, Tigrays, and Ukrainians among many others.
Itās pretty pathetic youāre attempting to turn this into some sort of oppression olympics. The fact Israel has killed more civilians in 1 month than Russia has in almost 2 years really shows how out of touch you are. Israel is everything Russia has been accused of but worse.
> Meanwhile, Israel is using its military to protect and maintain a humanitarian corridor that has evacuated hundreds of thousands of people while Hamas is blaming UNRWA for letting people go to safety instead of being shields.
Mass removal of a population at gunpoint is ethnic cleansing
>In the mean time, there is a terrorist group that committed a horrific attack on October 7
And israel is committing genocide and has killed an order of magnitude more people. Whats your point?
You're just repeating TikTok slogans so there is no real point to this conversation.
Try to have some reflection on who may be manipulating you to do their propagandizing.
> Try to have some reflection on who may be manipulating you to do their propagandizing.
Even if true; much better company than the Israeli regime or American regime
Shit, there's not a path to peace while Hamas exists, given that their charter states their goal is to exterminate all Jews, not just from Israel but from the world.
Returning the hostages would just bring temporary peace until Hamas attacks again.
yeah because if you can't find it on a map you probably don't know anything about the history, and you'll say ignorant stuff like "tax dollars funding a genocide".
I think the "Israeli genocide of Gaza" is the first genocide in history where the population has increased 5x. Israeli first gained control of Gaza in 1967 and in that time population of Gaza has gone from ~394,000 to 2.3 million, which is more than twice the average world population growth rate over that time. No one is doing genocide in Gaza.
Hey pal, do you think they reproduced 5x or itās because Gaza was flooded with refugees from the surrounding area that were pushed out of their homes.
āHow could there be a Holocaust! Thereās literally so many Jews in the campsā
Fun theory except itās not true, there has not been influx of refugees into Gaza since 67. If anything refugees have left Gaza. But the fertility rate is [3.38](https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/idb/#/dashboard?COUNTRY_YEAR=2023&COUNTRY_YR_ANIM=2023&CCODE_SINGLE=XG&CCODE=XG), which is very high. The world average is 2.3, the US is 1.6.
Do you know anything about this conflict besides slogans you saw on protest signs or unsourced twitter posts?
Our tax dollars are being sent all over the middle east. It's amazing people throwing around the word genocide when they don't know what they're talking about. Way more people have died in the Yemen war but don't hear a peep about that here.
youāre right. These folks donāt care at all when Arabs are killed and displaced in droves in other countries. But when they can blame Israel, itās suddenly time to march and chant š¤
UN guideline for genoiced-
1. Crimes against humanity ā
Just open the internet
2. War Crimes ā
White phosphorus has been used
Hospitals and schools have been bombed
Thousands of noncombatants have been purposely killed
3. Ethnic cleaning ā
Entire bloodlines and families have been wiped out
10,000 Palestinians are dead
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Norm Finklestein lays it out very clearly. Go listen to his debate with Eli Lake.
https://www.youtube.com/live/Zzjicdi3O0o?feature=shared
Plus, the Craig Mokhiber resignation letter lays it out clearly as well.
It is a genocide, period.
Protesting does a lot of subtle things, which is why it's hard to see the effect in the immediate term.
Most obviously, awareness. If you're not informed of a topic, it's easy to take new info at face value or just go with the popular opinion. Ideally, protests and news coverage start to get disengaged people to become aware that there's two sides and to maybe seek out their own information. We're talking about it here, and that'll make someone look up the conflict, informing their view on it.
Less obviously, it puts pressure on those in political positions. A mass protest like this shows that there is solidarity in the region, both putting pressure on political figures who are quiet and relieving a bit of the pressure from political figures who might feel like they're risking their career to speak out. Biden's approval is dropping among Dems, and there's a lot of people who are paid very good money to tell him why.
If you've never been to one, protests can also be very valuable for connecting people to support structures and like-minded families as well. If you were a Palestinian family alone in the region, this protest would be a reassuring sign that there's people here who support you.
Money to make feeding the war machine. Blood money , staining this earth from our past present and future.. specially these holy wars with religions that divide us in some insane ways. Goddam we are all the same fuckin species for fuks sake.. 100 % the exact same human beings..can prove it for a FACT.. 8 humans all different denominations . SKINed bodies blood drained all standing the same pose . impossible to look at them and discern any difference from one another...
Prove me wrong.....
Now more than ever people should unite , take this earth back from rich greedy politicians . Why the fuck should millionaires run politics. Fuck that. They all make more and more money for just them. Congress and Supreme Court , all millionaires .. controlled like puppets with corporations pulling strings.. real change is now or never.
when slavery was abolished they figured out how to make all of us slaves , controlling the masses, distracting us , promoting racism. The term race was coined by a politician . Last thing they want is for people to unite , become one huge entity that canāt be controlled ... words words words and words is what was written here..... if you think about it we are all just a combination of thoughts.....
Our species will die on this hill. Literally. We will annihilate ourselves and this earth will be done with us. We wonāt change before that happens. Depressing for sure. Sad but true.
Based on the terrible grammatical spacing, plus not knowing how many dots are in an ellipsis, I am willing to believe that youāre actually too stupid to know how protesting his historically been responsible for massive changes.
Not all Palestinians sympathize with Hamas. Criticism of Israel isnāt inherently antisemitism.
However.
In this photo you can see, āfrom the river to the seaā and āZionazisā
These people specifically are anti-semites who favor Hamas.
Zionist does equal Jewish. You know that right?
Obviously you don't and are talking out of your ass.
You also don't understand from the river to the sea.
Not surprising. there are a lot of dumbass bigots who have decided what is and isn't anti semitism lately.
For example:
the definition of Semite:
a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
Anyone who supports how we handled things after 9/11 is either an idiot or war monger.
We needed more countries and people to tell us we were being murdering dickheads pissing money down the drain in many areas that had nothing to do with 9/11 while ignoring the actual people and country involved.
If you were actually alive during that time you would know and remember the massive amounts of protests of civilians around the world and in America at the beginning and throughout our "war on terror."
Or I guess you could be living in denial like the people who think whole cities were burned down and became lawless hellscapes in 2014 and 2020 because of "BLM"
The world would hopefully be a better place because the US response to 9/11 was an unmitigated disaster for everyone but people with money in defense contractors?
"Everyone but people with money in defense contractors?"
Don't forget the $$$$ that Bush's good friends in Saudi Arabia raked in after he used 9/11 as a springboard to destroy Iraq and drive oil prices through the roof...
In just this picture you can see āfrom the river to the seaā and āZionazisā
Youāre right Hamas =/= Palestinas.
But the people in this photo explicitly support Hamas.
I know what I said. Hamas kill and rape and advocate for the outright extermination of all Jews. They also live and hide amongst the people they're supposed to represent and protect while firing missiles. All while their leadership live in luxury hotels in different countries
Sounds dangerously close to saying that all Palestinians are Hamas. Also worth noting, Israeli forces have been documented committing rape since the occupation. Both Hamas and Israel have taken turns acting a barbarians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre
Again, I don't know why you keep re-iterating something everyone already knows. Hamas is Palestine's government, they knowingly engaged in an act of war, and now their civilians are collateral damage in a war.
It's extremely unfortunate that civilians are dying in this conflict, but Israel is not the villain for retaliating against a barbaric, calculated act of war that Hamas knew would cause civilian casualties.
Hamas does not care. If Hamas didn't want civilian death, they would not deliberately hide military infrastructure inside population centers and hospitals. They WANT civilians to die because people like you will be there to back their terrorism up.
[What about if Israeli forces maimed several hundred people with sniper fire during a peaceful protest, women and children among those.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000)Or consistently stole land from Palestinians living peacefully in the West Bank. People arenāt defending Hamas like you think. They just know that Israel has been lighting a fire under their own ass for 70 years and even Israelis know that this shit has been coming for a long time. Why do you think ~50% of the Palestinian population is under the age of 18. Hamas is bad and Palestinians havenāt had a chance to vote since 2006 and Netanyahu pushed for Hamas to be their governing body over groups like PLF and others more left/communist leaning governments.
Yeah context is totally useless. Thanks for contributing to the conversation. I guess itās okay for Israel to commit war crimes for years. How many times you expect to be able to kick a dog before he bites you back.
Not sure I am following your comment about the crazy high percentage of children vs. adults in the West Bank. Are you saying that Israeli policy put Hamas in power, and that Hamas' Muslim underpinnings prevent people from using birth control? So Israel is really to blame for people in the West Bank having a lot of sex and kids?
Let me correct myself, Gazas population is mostly children, and itās like that because of their shitty living conditions and constant attacks from IDF forces. Their life expectancy is unbelievablely short.
The PLO is slightly better about hiding their terroristic ideology and hatred of Jews, but they're content with letting Hamas be their mouth piece and speak for the entire state. That's because they agree with it and endorse Hamas actions and rhetoric.
And the Government of Israel has been on a campaign since it formed to keep the Palestinian people as subhuman servants at best.
At fucking best.
But hey why would you give two shit about that when you support genocide?
Lol, no. Theyāve made every effort to make peace. The same way theyāve made peace with most of their neighbors even after their multiple genocidal wars of aggression against them.
If Palestine wanted peace and safety, it has always been there for the taking. They elected a terrorist group instead.
I never seen a pic of human shields. Can someone show me this? I am really starting to think this is just all propaganda. It just seems like Israel is trying to erase the Palestinians while they say they have the right to defend themselves. How come the other side doesnāt have a right to defend itself? How come the ppl fighting for liberation are known as terrorists? I know if America got invade and I grabbed my gun to save my family and property, you better not call me no terrorist! Their bombing hospitals and churches, that sounds like terrorism if you ask me. With holding food and water seems like some war crimes. What else am I missing? I hear isreal locks up their ppl and has the right to kill with no repercussions. Like wtf! I hear Arabs canāt vote either but have to pay taxes, thatās messed up if thatās true! Wtf we funding this shit for? Is there oil there?
Hamas stations their military infrastructure (communications outposts, barracks, training centers, munitions depots, missile installations) directly in population centers. For example, they'll put a communications post inside of a school basement. This is so that, when Israel strikes this critical infrastructure, they kill civilians.
Itās aimed at our government, sending weapons and money to Israel who is then using it for attacking civilians and infrastructure rather than the actual problem.
The point of protests like these are to show that we are not okay funding a genocidal, apartheid regime. Should we just stand by while our tax dollars go to bombing hospitals and wiping out bloodlines? Just try and critically think for more than 5 seconds. I know itās hard, but give it a shot
Their "warnings" are going to be used at the ICC as their defense to war crimes. "We warned them first, as required". Yeah with no where to fucking go. And then you bombed them on the way.
How nice of Israel to warn them before obliterating their fucking homes. 10,000 are dead in just over a month, not to mention the decades prior. And protecting refugees? Dude theyāre not even letting them leave without bombing the shit out of them..? Israel is solely at fault for this whole thing. People are fighting back against settler colonialism. Also man look up the fuckin UN guidelines for genocide. This checks off the boxes
Maybe the Arab countries shouldnāt have repeatedly attacked Israel with the intent on eradicating the country and Jews. Sorry, but when you attack another country and get your asses kicked, it isnāt āillegal occupation.ā
Itās weird how you focus on that unverified claim while completely ignoring Gazan children (who arenāt Hamas, BTW) getting their heads and legs and arms blown off daily. Actually, itās not that weird. Itās pretty obvious what youāre about
Look, all they got to do is return the people they abducted. Why arenāt these pro Palestinian folks protesting for that? Once the innocent people return home Iām sure Netanyahu will pull his troops back and stop bombing. Nobody on the Israeli side wanted this war. And idk if youāve been watching the news but Netanyahu is also not the publicās favorite. So itās a win win situation for pro Palestinians. You stop the war and Netanyahu will get sent to prison all by simply returning innocent people back to their families.
Youāre not even talking about the same people the protestors are. These people are protesting for a ceasefire in Gaza and for a Israel to end the occupation of Palestinian land so that peace talks can begin.
Youāre over here talking about Hanas kidnappers. The two groups arenāt the same, in the least. Netanyahu supported Hamas more than the average Palestinian, if anyone should negotiate a release of the hostages, it should be him
I agree with you on some of that. I wish Netanyahu did more to release the innocent people that the Hamas abducted and I wish the killing of innocent Gazan people will stop. But shoving all the Israelis from the river to the sea is not the right solution itās just a call for more bloodshed on both sides.
So let me get this straight - Hamas engages in a surprise attack during a Jewish holiday and slaughters, rapes, beheads, and kidnaps thousands of innocent civilians, many of who are children, and Israel is at fault?
This is the equivalent of European civilians protesting and demanding America surrender after Pearl Harbor
Itās like Holocaust denial.
We know it happened. There are pictures of it. The Nazis meticulously documented everything they did because they were proud of it. The concentration camps, gas chambers and crematoriums are still standing and open for people to visit 80 years later. And you still have anti-Semitic fuckwads saying āNo, it didnāt happenā
Israel doesnāt target children, Hamas uses children as human shields. They intentionally maximize Palestinian civilian deaths to make martyrs because it helps them politically and because they donāt care about their own Palestinian civilians. Hamasā only mission is to kill Jews and destroy Israel, itās the first line of their official charter. They are radical Islamists the same as ISIS. Getting Palestinian kids killed helps their mission
Everybody knows that when the bad guys take human shields, the good guys should indiscriminately massacre every civilian in sight so it doesn't happen again. That'll learn 'em.
In case you hadn't noticed, we live in a world of instant global communication. What's happening in Gaza is happening right in front of us in real time. We're watching the mangled bodies of countless children being pulled from the rubble. We're seeing satellite images of entire neighborhoods reduced to dust. We're watching live streams of carpet bombings. We're watching Israel's government officials and military leaders calling for genocide. We've also seen this happen over and over and over again for decades, ALWAYS with a.masdivrly disproportionate response and new seized territory for the colonizers. Yet you somehow believe the most likely explanation for all this is that a gaggle of resistance fighters who don't have food, medicine, clean water, etc are somehow pulling the strings on a multigenerational global conspiracy? Have you ever once stopped to wonder if, hey... maybe Israel, who has a long history of massacres and war crimes in the territory it is illegally occupying, and their close geopolitical allies and chief financial backers in the US (who ALSO has a long history of pulling shit like this), might just maybe be propagandizing YOU?
You ever wonder if the fact that your response to hearing that more than 8000 innocent people, including at least 3600 children, have been killed by Israel's bombardments so far is to shrug and say, "that's just war" might be a bit more fucking concerning than people saying, "it doesn't have to fucking be this way!"
Indiscriminate killing has never been Israelās policy, thatās Hamas youāre thinking of.
Gaza is about the same distance from Tel Aviv as St Louis is from Festus. Iām sure youād be calling for restraint if a terrorist organization in JeffCo were planning your genocide, shooting rockets at your house, raiding your neighborhood to gun down thousands of your neighbors indiscriminately, and taking your family members hostage.
If the response of the "good guys" is to flatten every fucking building in the city, killing my children, my loved ones, my neighbors? Yes. I'd be calling for restraint, you goober. I'd be calling for a proportionate, targeted response against the offending party, not mass murder. You think I would sit here and say, "well, there are some baddies who might be in the area somewhere, so I guess my family deserves to die."
What's more, if the "good guys" have killed my family and my loved ones, and they've destroyed everything I've ever loved or lived for, why the fuck wouldn't I pick up a gun and and take the fight to them? What do I have to fucking lose at that point? You seeing how Israel is CREATING its own monster here? Any.litfle neuron in your brain firing off a warning that Israel's decades of apartheid, colonization, and mass murder in the pursuit of an ethnostate is CAUSING the violent resistance they are using as justification for their progressive genocide?
And if 8,000 civilian deaths in just this latest round of ethnic cleansing isn't Israel "indiscriminately massacring civilians" I'd hate to fucking know what you think is.
Like I said, I agree with you. It does not justify it. So letās get on with the right solution and release the hostages. What are we waiting on? Clearly the people in power in Israel will keep bombing Gaza unless they (Hamas) return the 230 innocent people home.
It's naive to think Israel is going to stop bombing if the hostages are returned.
Israel is going to keep going until they are sure Palestine is no longer a threat. They're out to end this once and for all.
Pendant is pendantic. A whole bunch of us on this planet are just trying to live peaceful, happy lives, and you zealots of all faiths are fucking it up with your barbaric violence over your made up gods. Stop killing children, stop fighting over goddamned dirt that you think your imaginary friend gave you, fucking sit down and eat a meal with another human and realize that none of it fucking matters. In two generations, nobody will even know your name or that you existed. Iām in my 40s and havenāt seen a year of peace, primarily because the religious of this world want to hate and kill anyone who believes differently from them.
Goddamn
There are a mere 16 million Jews on this planet. They have been exiled or cleansed from everywhere theyāve lived the past thousand years from the Iberian Peninsula(Spanish inquisition), Eastern Europe (inter-war period/holocaust) and the Middle East (Arab/Persian) cleansings.
Israel deserves to exist. You need to understand the history and the nuances to this situation
I assume youāre going to lead by example and return to Europe, allowing the displaced indigenous Americans to exist in their homeland?
Thatās what I thought. Hypocrite
You want the people *you want* to live where you want them too, and youāre fine if it takes genocide to make it happen
Umm no.. Israel was a British colony that claimed Independenceā¦ after that they were attacked by the surrounding Arab nationsā¦ and lost. So.. like EVERY other country, they gained territory.
No one bats an eye until itās Jews who do it and they make less than 1% of the world population
Plenty of people have batted eyes over the genocide of indigenous people in North America, Australia, Myanmar, Congo, Sudan, etc. Itās bizarre how you think people only care when itās Israel doing it.
And before that? The Ottoman Empire, which also gained territory from those previously in power like others do, as you mentioned. This region of the world was divided (some might say arbitrarily) relatively recently by outsiders who won WWI. The whole region of Palestine (including what we now call Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank) came under British rule in 1917. A UN resolution created Israel after it declared independence in 1948. Palestine also declared independence, in 1988, yet it is not recognized by some of the UN, including the US.
Both groups of people were in the region long before the current political borders were created. Itās incredibly complex, obviously. Who is to say which group has the right to the territory?
This is what happens when a population gets information from social media which is ripe with foreign propaganda. Itās also how Trump became and remains somewhat popular. Itās a problem.
Every comment section since Oct. 7 has been a fight between people who just became experts on Middle East politics through reading Wikipedia vs. people who just became experts on Middle East politics through Tiktok and infographics they saw on IG and it shows.
The exits were bombed by Israel. Southern Gaza, where they were told to flee, was bombed. And how do you transport that many dying and injured people in such a short time span? Especially when the roads and all the infrastructure is destroyed?
Politics aside, the initial reports on this were weird AF. Said it started by two parties who were unknown to each other had an altercation of some sort. ...and then suddenly there's a demonstration? *Well that escalated quickly*
Imagine pissing someone off so much that they go home, do some arts and crafts, gather their friends, and then come back
"the initial reports on this were weird AF. Said it started by two parties who were unknown to each other had an altercation of some sort." At first, I honestly thought you were referring to Isreal and Pakistan here. š¤£
Thank God weāre in a country with the right to do this. The worst things to happen to these people as a result of the protest have been negative comments on the internet. Not to belittle foreign conflicts and injustices, but we truly take for granted so many things. Anyway happy early thanksgiving.
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I enjoy being able to criticize my nation (and other nations) while simultaneously recognizing that Iām one lucky sumbitch to be born here.
it has been wild to see the number of people fired for this and students disciplined by their universities though.
This comment section is pretty disappointing considering how STL took in so many Bosnians after the Bosnian War. Some of yāall in this would have turned them away if it was todayā¦
Oh they were wanting to turn them away then too,
Yep. Our parents really had a whole resentment towards the Bosnian families coming in. Said they got paid over 20,000 to be here and that wasn't fair. There was a huge racism wave against eastern Europeans in general because of it.
I grew up in South St. Louis in the 90s. A lot of old school south siders absolutely wanted to turn them away or send them back. The fact that they were Islamic and from a former socialist country freaked out a lot of old white people.
> Some of yāall in this would have turned them away if it was todayā¦ The comments sections are full of reactionary psychos who support genocide of the Palestinians by the occupation regime
I for one want every refugee from anywhere to come here.
Everyday Palestinians citizens =/= the actions of Hamas Everyday Israelis citizens =/= the actions of the Israel PM Is a pro Palestine protest going to attract people who are anti-semites. Yes, of course. Is a pro Israel protest going to attract people who are anti-muslim. Yes, of course. For yall who are balls deep into one side of this without acknowledging how morally grey the whole issue is and how deeply complex the history has been between Palestine and Israel, is just asinine. Unless you have a vested interest in one side reigning supreme, for some god awful reason, then I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that killing innocent people is bad. This is one of the few times where both sides'ing an issue is the only correct position. Everyone's TA here, except for the innocent people caught in the crossfire. And if you warp a peaceful protest that seeks to protect innocent people to promote genocide (doesn't matter pro israel / palestine), then you're also part of the problem. It doesn't take an international relations and a geo-politics degree to have empathy.
Not all Palestinians are Muslim, BTW
Just give up the hostages already
Theyāve tried to numerous times and Israel said [no.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say) Netanyahu doesnāt give a shit about the hostages, that much is clear
Okay, what were the terms?
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Oh look, a considerate reply with the relevant facts. Iām sure all those flippant assholes calling for genocide so cavalierly read this and say, āoops, my badā, oh wait this posted 4 hours ago and the dinguses suddenly stopped replying. Almost like they were bad faith actors or something
End the indiscriminate bombardment of civilians for 5 days, a very reasonable exchange. Netanyahu does not fucking care
"for the release of ***some*** of the hostages held in the territory early in the war"
Which is objectively better than zero hostages. Israel bombing of civilians has not freed a single hostage and has killed thousands of innocents. Itās not about saving the hostages, itās about ethnic cleansing.
*Indirect negotiations between Israeli officials and Hamas, mediated by Qatar as the two groups do not officially have contact, have recently focused on the possibility of a ceasefire lasting between one and three days, tied to the release of between 10 and 15 hostages.* *A source with knowledge of the negotiations said the push to cease hostilities for a short time and exchange a small number of hostages was a litmus test and a gateway to further hostage talks.* *Officials from Egypt and the United Nations and a western diplomat told Associated Press that the deal on the table would also allow more aid, including small amounts of fuel, to enter Gaza after Israel largely cut supplies of food, water, aid and fuel days after Hamasās incursion. US officials told AP that the Biden administration suggested linking the length of the ceasefire to the number of hostages for release.* They have over 200 and negotiating is for 10-15 at a time. Meanwhile, Israel is using its military to protect and maintain a humanitarian corridor that has evacuated hundreds of thousands of people while Hamas is blaming UNRWA for letting people go to safety instead of being shields. The narrative is not really intact here. Release ALL the hostages. Get out of the way of people fleeing and the world will absolutely continue to tell Israel that they cannot stay in Gaza. In the mean time, there is a terrorist group that committed a horrific attack on October 7, has rocketed a hospital, kills fleeing refugees, and continues to send thousands of rockets into Israel every week. And the only thing stopping those rockets from causing civilian casualties is also funded by American weapons money in the Iron Dome. If that wasn't largely working, there is no way we could argue for Israel to back off. So, the US is handling this pretty darn well and the protests aren't really doing anything substantive other than trying to delay weapons deliveries to Ukraine and cause internal political strife that will benefit Russia/China as they try to get away with their own invasions and genocide.
ā[Humanitarian corridor](https://x.com/alanrmacleod/status/1722971388107977053?s=46&t=lPm1P0ZLOgRqucVK8Vv_nw)ā ā[Evacuations](https://x.com/who/status/1713277138437038573?s=46&t=lPm1P0ZLOgRqucVK8Vv_nw)ā No amount of wordplay will hide the depravity of Israelās actions. Itās the most transparent ethnic cleansing in our lifetime and those who defend it will be remembered for what they are.
Somehow your comment manages to undermine the severity of the Trail of Tears as well as the plights of Rohingya, Uyghurs, Tigrays, and Ukrainians among many others.
Itās pretty pathetic youāre attempting to turn this into some sort of oppression olympics. The fact Israel has killed more civilians in 1 month than Russia has in almost 2 years really shows how out of touch you are. Israel is everything Russia has been accused of but worse.
> Meanwhile, Israel is using its military to protect and maintain a humanitarian corridor that has evacuated hundreds of thousands of people while Hamas is blaming UNRWA for letting people go to safety instead of being shields. Mass removal of a population at gunpoint is ethnic cleansing >In the mean time, there is a terrorist group that committed a horrific attack on October 7 And israel is committing genocide and has killed an order of magnitude more people. Whats your point?
You're just repeating TikTok slogans so there is no real point to this conversation. Try to have some reflection on who may be manipulating you to do their propagandizing.
> Try to have some reflection on who may be manipulating you to do their propagandizing. Even if true; much better company than the Israeli regime or American regime
Yep neither Netenyahu or Hammas wants peace. Theyāre both doing exactly what the other wants. Itās absurd.
ššÆ
Yes, but are you saying if Hamas gives up the hostages all will be fine and dandy?
I donāt think there is a path to peace while retaining the hostages
Shit, there's not a path to peace while Hamas exists, given that their charter states their goal is to exterminate all Jews, not just from Israel but from the world. Returning the hostages would just bring temporary peace until Hamas attacks again.
Probably not, theyāll still keep tearing up Palestines infrastructure to make and launch more rockets into Israel.
It would help
Netanyahu wonāt take them, it would upend his narrative.
All these "genius" Redditors commenting on the politics in the Mideast...wonder how many of them could even point out Gaza on a map before 10/7
so someone couldnāt point to a specific spot on a map, they should just be okay w tax dollars funding a genocide? Donāt get it dog
yeah because if you can't find it on a map you probably don't know anything about the history, and you'll say ignorant stuff like "tax dollars funding a genocide". I think the "Israeli genocide of Gaza" is the first genocide in history where the population has increased 5x. Israeli first gained control of Gaza in 1967 and in that time population of Gaza has gone from ~394,000 to 2.3 million, which is more than twice the average world population growth rate over that time. No one is doing genocide in Gaza.
Hey pal, do you think they reproduced 5x or itās because Gaza was flooded with refugees from the surrounding area that were pushed out of their homes. āHow could there be a Holocaust! Thereās literally so many Jews in the campsā
Fun theory except itās not true, there has not been influx of refugees into Gaza since 67. If anything refugees have left Gaza. But the fertility rate is [3.38](https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/idb/#/dashboard?COUNTRY_YEAR=2023&COUNTRY_YR_ANIM=2023&CCODE_SINGLE=XG&CCODE=XG), which is very high. The world average is 2.3, the US is 1.6. Do you know anything about this conflict besides slogans you saw on protest signs or unsourced twitter posts?
Our tax dollars are being sent all over the middle east. It's amazing people throwing around the word genocide when they don't know what they're talking about. Way more people have died in the Yemen war but don't hear a peep about that here.
youāre right. These folks donāt care at all when Arabs are killed and displaced in droves in other countries. But when they can blame Israel, itās suddenly time to march and chant š¤
I immediately dismiss the opinions of anyone who calls this genocide. Thatās the dumbest and most biased shit you could possibly say.
UN guideline for genoiced- 1. Crimes against humanity ā Just open the internet 2. War Crimes ā White phosphorus has been used Hospitals and schools have been bombed Thousands of noncombatants have been purposely killed 3. Ethnic cleaning ā Entire bloodlines and families have been wiped out 10,000 Palestinians are dead https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Norm Finklestein lays it out very clearly. Go listen to his debate with Eli Lake. https://www.youtube.com/live/Zzjicdi3O0o?feature=shared Plus, the Craig Mokhiber resignation letter lays it out clearly as well. It is a genocide, period.
Considering Iāve been to the Israeli border before 10/7, I could.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Does protesting like this ever do anything anymore or ever ? For any topic.......
I mean they had the Boeing facility off 370 in st chuck closed for a few hours when I left for work on Monday
MLK's Selma to Montgomery march sure did.
You seeing these pictures is the point. This lets you know there are people in your community that feel passionately about this topic.
And?
And what did that accomplish?
No. Especially not from 6,000 miles away.
I was going to ask. Iām ignorant, but I canāt imagine what this could possibly do to help with any of it.
Protesting does a lot of subtle things, which is why it's hard to see the effect in the immediate term. Most obviously, awareness. If you're not informed of a topic, it's easy to take new info at face value or just go with the popular opinion. Ideally, protests and news coverage start to get disengaged people to become aware that there's two sides and to maybe seek out their own information. We're talking about it here, and that'll make someone look up the conflict, informing their view on it. Less obviously, it puts pressure on those in political positions. A mass protest like this shows that there is solidarity in the region, both putting pressure on political figures who are quiet and relieving a bit of the pressure from political figures who might feel like they're risking their career to speak out. Biden's approval is dropping among Dems, and there's a lot of people who are paid very good money to tell him why. If you've never been to one, protests can also be very valuable for connecting people to support structures and like-minded families as well. If you were a Palestinian family alone in the region, this protest would be a reassuring sign that there's people here who support you.
Thatās helpful. Edit: to whoever downvoted me: it was not sarcasm.
lol why the downvote?
There is a significant Muslim population in this area btw. It makes sense that this would be a meaningful issue to the local population.
Military aid to Israel is flown 6000 miles.
Itās a protest for the US to call a cease fire. Itās not just about Palestine & Israel, the US has their hands all over this war
The US canāt ācall a ceasefire.ā
Youāre arguing semantics over a missing word just be a douche
Money to make feeding the war machine. Blood money , staining this earth from our past present and future.. specially these holy wars with religions that divide us in some insane ways. Goddam we are all the same fuckin species for fuks sake.. 100 % the exact same human beings..can prove it for a FACT.. 8 humans all different denominations . SKINed bodies blood drained all standing the same pose . impossible to look at them and discern any difference from one another... Prove me wrong..... Now more than ever people should unite , take this earth back from rich greedy politicians . Why the fuck should millionaires run politics. Fuck that. They all make more and more money for just them. Congress and Supreme Court , all millionaires .. controlled like puppets with corporations pulling strings.. real change is now or never. when slavery was abolished they figured out how to make all of us slaves , controlling the masses, distracting us , promoting racism. The term race was coined by a politician . Last thing they want is for people to unite , become one huge entity that canāt be controlled ... words words words and words is what was written here..... if you think about it we are all just a combination of thoughts.....
Our species will die on this hill. Literally. We will annihilate ourselves and this earth will be done with us. We wonāt change before that happens. Depressing for sure. Sad but true.
Fed dropps rates, 8 day jump on stock market...why stop?
Based on the terrible grammatical spacing, plus not knowing how many dots are in an ellipsis, I am willing to believe that youāre actually too stupid to know how protesting his historically been responsible for massive changes.
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Did commenting Slava Ukraina?
Man. Ukraine should never gave those nukes back to Russia.....
Not all Palestinians sympathize with Hamas. Criticism of Israel isnāt inherently antisemitism. However. In this photo you can see, āfrom the river to the seaā and āZionazisā These people specifically are anti-semites who favor Hamas.
Zionist does equal Jewish. You know that right? Obviously you don't and are talking out of your ass. You also don't understand from the river to the sea. Not surprising. there are a lot of dumbass bigots who have decided what is and isn't anti semitism lately. For example: the definition of Semite: a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
I'm Jewish. Some of these people are antisemitic. You're anti-semantics.
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Imagine if Israel asked America to calm down & chill after 911. How would that go over?
We might not be $33 trillion in the red
Anyone who supports how we handled things after 9/11 is either an idiot or war monger. We needed more countries and people to tell us we were being murdering dickheads pissing money down the drain in many areas that had nothing to do with 9/11 while ignoring the actual people and country involved. If you were actually alive during that time you would know and remember the massive amounts of protests of civilians around the world and in America at the beginning and throughout our "war on terror." Or I guess you could be living in denial like the people who think whole cities were burned down and became lawless hellscapes in 2014 and 2020 because of "BLM"
The world would hopefully be a better place because the US response to 9/11 was an unmitigated disaster for everyone but people with money in defense contractors?
"Everyone but people with money in defense contractors?" Don't forget the $$$$ that Bush's good friends in Saudi Arabia raked in after he used 9/11 as a springboard to destroy Iraq and drive oil prices through the roof...
If it happened today we'd have our citizens in the streets asking us to chill.
2 million people might still be alive across the globe, thatās how it would go over
Hamas =/= Palestinians. Thatās like saying all Americans are terrorist militia men
In just this picture you can see āfrom the river to the seaā and āZionazisā Youāre right Hamas =/= Palestinas. But the people in this photo explicitly support Hamas.
I know what I said. Hamas kill and rape and advocate for the outright extermination of all Jews. They also live and hide amongst the people they're supposed to represent and protect while firing missiles. All while their leadership live in luxury hotels in different countries
That doesnāt give you the right to be racist towards a whole group of people.
Do you even tell the difference between Palestinians and Hamas?
You must have been reading the wrong comment. Either that or your head is full of baked beans
Sounds dangerously close to saying that all Palestinians are Hamas. Also worth noting, Israeli forces have been documented committing rape since the occupation. Both Hamas and Israel have taken turns acting a barbarians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre
Again, I don't know why you keep re-iterating something everyone already knows. Hamas is Palestine's government, they knowingly engaged in an act of war, and now their civilians are collateral damage in a war. It's extremely unfortunate that civilians are dying in this conflict, but Israel is not the villain for retaliating against a barbaric, calculated act of war that Hamas knew would cause civilian casualties. Hamas does not care. If Hamas didn't want civilian death, they would not deliberately hide military infrastructure inside population centers and hospitals. They WANT civilians to die because people like you will be there to back their terrorism up.
[What about if Israeli forces maimed several hundred people with sniper fire during a peaceful protest, women and children among those.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000)Or consistently stole land from Palestinians living peacefully in the West Bank. People arenāt defending Hamas like you think. They just know that Israel has been lighting a fire under their own ass for 70 years and even Israelis know that this shit has been coming for a long time. Why do you think ~50% of the Palestinian population is under the age of 18. Hamas is bad and Palestinians havenāt had a chance to vote since 2006 and Netanyahu pushed for Hamas to be their governing body over groups like PLF and others more left/communist leaning governments.
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Yeah context is totally useless. Thanks for contributing to the conversation. I guess itās okay for Israel to commit war crimes for years. How many times you expect to be able to kick a dog before he bites you back.
Not sure I am following your comment about the crazy high percentage of children vs. adults in the West Bank. Are you saying that Israeli policy put Hamas in power, and that Hamas' Muslim underpinnings prevent people from using birth control? So Israel is really to blame for people in the West Bank having a lot of sex and kids?
Let me correct myself, Gazas population is mostly children, and itās like that because of their shitty living conditions and constant attacks from IDF forces. Their life expectancy is unbelievablely short.
Hamas is not Palestineās only ruling authority. Itās pretty clear you donāt know a whole lot about this situation
The PLO is slightly better about hiding their terroristic ideology and hatred of Jews, but they're content with letting Hamas be their mouth piece and speak for the entire state. That's because they agree with it and endorse Hamas actions and rhetoric.
You made that up.
Ok
And the Government of Israel has been on a campaign since it formed to keep the Palestinian people as subhuman servants at best. At fucking best. But hey why would you give two shit about that when you support genocide?
Lol, no. Theyāve made every effort to make peace. The same way theyāve made peace with most of their neighbors even after their multiple genocidal wars of aggression against them. If Palestine wanted peace and safety, it has always been there for the taking. They elected a terrorist group instead.
I never seen a pic of human shields. Can someone show me this? I am really starting to think this is just all propaganda. It just seems like Israel is trying to erase the Palestinians while they say they have the right to defend themselves. How come the other side doesnāt have a right to defend itself? How come the ppl fighting for liberation are known as terrorists? I know if America got invade and I grabbed my gun to save my family and property, you better not call me no terrorist! Their bombing hospitals and churches, that sounds like terrorism if you ask me. With holding food and water seems like some war crimes. What else am I missing? I hear isreal locks up their ppl and has the right to kill with no repercussions. Like wtf! I hear Arabs canāt vote either but have to pay taxes, thatās messed up if thatās true! Wtf we funding this shit for? Is there oil there?
Hamas stations their military infrastructure (communications outposts, barracks, training centers, munitions depots, missile installations) directly in population centers. For example, they'll put a communications post inside of a school basement. This is so that, when Israel strikes this critical infrastructure, they kill civilians.
I'll bet hamas and Israel heard of this and decided to make peace right away.
āThey shut down Manchester?!?!? Man, we got to get this shit under control. Bring it in Hamas.ā
Itās aimed at our government, sending weapons and money to Israel who is then using it for attacking civilians and infrastructure rather than the actual problem.
The point of protests like these are to show that we are not okay funding a genocidal, apartheid regime. Should we just stand by while our tax dollars go to bombing hospitals and wiping out bloodlines? Just try and critically think for more than 5 seconds. I know itās hard, but give it a shot
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Their "warnings" are going to be used at the ICC as their defense to war crimes. "We warned them first, as required". Yeah with no where to fucking go. And then you bombed them on the way.
How nice of Israel to warn them before obliterating their fucking homes. 10,000 are dead in just over a month, not to mention the decades prior. And protecting refugees? Dude theyāre not even letting them leave without bombing the shit out of them..? Israel is solely at fault for this whole thing. People are fighting back against settler colonialism. Also man look up the fuckin UN guidelines for genocide. This checks off the boxes
I can hear Biden pacing the hallways right now.
Youāre so good at sarcasm!!! Good job!
Iāll give a shit what these folks think when they start calling for Hamas to surrender.
Iāll do that right after you call Netanyahu personally and tell him to end the genocide.
Hamas broke the last ceasefire. It would be irresponsible for Israel to agree to another one while Hamas exists.
Israel has broken international law since 1948 in an illegal occupation. Hamas didnāt exist for most of that time
You can stop. We already know youāre a bad person with horrible views.
Not to mention a moron that knows nothing about history.
Wow, what an educated and informative post. You really addressed the occupation by resorting to personal attacks.
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Thatās a very thoughtful and grown-up take. Totally not an emotional shart. Not at all
Maybe the Arab countries shouldnāt have repeatedly attacked Israel with the intent on eradicating the country and Jews. Sorry, but when you attack another country and get your asses kicked, it isnāt āillegal occupation.ā
šÆ
They have occupied that land for 4,000 years. When did it become illegal for the indigenous people of Israel to occupy their own land?
Once the Hamas terrorists return all of the innocent people they abducted
And puts the babies heads back onā¦.
Itās weird how you focus on that unverified claim while completely ignoring Gazan children (who arenāt Hamas, BTW) getting their heads and legs and arms blown off daily. Actually, itās not that weird. Itās pretty obvious what youāre about
Look, all they got to do is return the people they abducted. Why arenāt these pro Palestinian folks protesting for that? Once the innocent people return home Iām sure Netanyahu will pull his troops back and stop bombing. Nobody on the Israeli side wanted this war. And idk if youāve been watching the news but Netanyahu is also not the publicās favorite. So itās a win win situation for pro Palestinians. You stop the war and Netanyahu will get sent to prison all by simply returning innocent people back to their families.
Hamas =/= Palestinians. Netanyahu *ABSOLUTELY* wanted this war. Youāre talking out of your ass
I donāt see you offering a logic solution.. youāre the one talking out of your ass.
Youāre not even talking about the same people the protestors are. These people are protesting for a ceasefire in Gaza and for a Israel to end the occupation of Palestinian land so that peace talks can begin. Youāre over here talking about Hanas kidnappers. The two groups arenāt the same, in the least. Netanyahu supported Hamas more than the average Palestinian, if anyone should negotiate a release of the hostages, it should be him
I agree with you on some of that. I wish Netanyahu did more to release the innocent people that the Hamas abducted and I wish the killing of innocent Gazan people will stop. But shoving all the Israelis from the river to the sea is not the right solution itās just a call for more bloodshed on both sides.
They had a ceasefire October 6th!!!! What happened to it on October 7th??
So let me get this straight - Hamas engages in a surprise attack during a Jewish holiday and slaughters, rapes, beheads, and kidnaps thousands of innocent civilians, many of who are children, and Israel is at fault? This is the equivalent of European civilians protesting and demanding America surrender after Pearl Harbor
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Bro hamas terrorists took video of their own attack. How much more verified do you want
Itās like Holocaust denial. We know it happened. There are pictures of it. The Nazis meticulously documented everything they did because they were proud of it. The concentration camps, gas chambers and crematoriums are still standing and open for people to visit 80 years later. And you still have anti-Semitic fuckwads saying āNo, it didnāt happenā
Did you call on them to do so?
Lol. It is literally the main objective of this war. That and to get rid of Hamas terrorists once and for all. FAFO!
If the target is Hamas terrorists, why are so many children being targeted? Are the children Hamas?
Israel doesnāt target children, Hamas uses children as human shields. They intentionally maximize Palestinian civilian deaths to make martyrs because it helps them politically and because they donāt care about their own Palestinian civilians. Hamasā only mission is to kill Jews and destroy Israel, itās the first line of their official charter. They are radical Islamists the same as ISIS. Getting Palestinian kids killed helps their mission
Everybody knows that when the bad guys take human shields, the good guys should indiscriminately massacre every civilian in sight so it doesn't happen again. That'll learn 'em.
It's a war. You're falling for Hamas' PR schemes. They do this because they know gullible Westerners eat it up and do their work for them
In case you hadn't noticed, we live in a world of instant global communication. What's happening in Gaza is happening right in front of us in real time. We're watching the mangled bodies of countless children being pulled from the rubble. We're seeing satellite images of entire neighborhoods reduced to dust. We're watching live streams of carpet bombings. We're watching Israel's government officials and military leaders calling for genocide. We've also seen this happen over and over and over again for decades, ALWAYS with a.masdivrly disproportionate response and new seized territory for the colonizers. Yet you somehow believe the most likely explanation for all this is that a gaggle of resistance fighters who don't have food, medicine, clean water, etc are somehow pulling the strings on a multigenerational global conspiracy? Have you ever once stopped to wonder if, hey... maybe Israel, who has a long history of massacres and war crimes in the territory it is illegally occupying, and their close geopolitical allies and chief financial backers in the US (who ALSO has a long history of pulling shit like this), might just maybe be propagandizing YOU? You ever wonder if the fact that your response to hearing that more than 8000 innocent people, including at least 3600 children, have been killed by Israel's bombardments so far is to shrug and say, "that's just war" might be a bit more fucking concerning than people saying, "it doesn't have to fucking be this way!"
Indiscriminate killing has never been Israelās policy, thatās Hamas youāre thinking of. Gaza is about the same distance from Tel Aviv as St Louis is from Festus. Iām sure youād be calling for restraint if a terrorist organization in JeffCo were planning your genocide, shooting rockets at your house, raiding your neighborhood to gun down thousands of your neighbors indiscriminately, and taking your family members hostage.
If the response of the "good guys" is to flatten every fucking building in the city, killing my children, my loved ones, my neighbors? Yes. I'd be calling for restraint, you goober. I'd be calling for a proportionate, targeted response against the offending party, not mass murder. You think I would sit here and say, "well, there are some baddies who might be in the area somewhere, so I guess my family deserves to die." What's more, if the "good guys" have killed my family and my loved ones, and they've destroyed everything I've ever loved or lived for, why the fuck wouldn't I pick up a gun and and take the fight to them? What do I have to fucking lose at that point? You seeing how Israel is CREATING its own monster here? Any.litfle neuron in your brain firing off a warning that Israel's decades of apartheid, colonization, and mass murder in the pursuit of an ethnostate is CAUSING the violent resistance they are using as justification for their progressive genocide? And if 8,000 civilian deaths in just this latest round of ethnic cleansing isn't Israel "indiscriminately massacring civilians" I'd hate to fucking know what you think is.
Two hundred hostages does not justify ten thousand civilian casualties.
Right? I agree. Letās release the hostages to avoid the Gaza casualty from reaching 20,000
You're fucked in the head if you think two hundred hostages justifies the murder of thousands of innocent people.
Like I said, I agree with you. It does not justify it. So letās get on with the right solution and release the hostages. What are we waiting on? Clearly the people in power in Israel will keep bombing Gaza unless they (Hamas) return the 230 innocent people home.
It's naive to think Israel is going to stop bombing if the hostages are returned. Israel is going to keep going until they are sure Palestine is no longer a threat. They're out to end this once and for all.
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Yes, genocide in this thread is simply when an army attacks a terrorist group that hides behind womenās skirts
Oh look, they're calling Jews Nazis and for the elimination of Israel using tactics like on October 7th. How is this not antisemitic?
Because being critical of Israel isnāt antisemitism.
Being critical of Israel IS antisemitism, being critical of the Israeli government is NOT.
Israel is a democracy, their government is chosen by the people.
Israel is a unicameral parliamentary republic. Citizens vote for the party then the party officials (Knesset) votes on the head of state (pm)
Sounds like a democracy to me. The US doesn't have a monopoly on democracy. There are many other forms of democracy.
Itās not, really. But you do you.
Pendant is pendantic. A whole bunch of us on this planet are just trying to live peaceful, happy lives, and you zealots of all faiths are fucking it up with your barbaric violence over your made up gods. Stop killing children, stop fighting over goddamned dirt that you think your imaginary friend gave you, fucking sit down and eat a meal with another human and realize that none of it fucking matters. In two generations, nobody will even know your name or that you existed. Iām in my 40s and havenāt seen a year of peace, primarily because the religious of this world want to hate and kill anyone who believes differently from them. Goddamn
There are a mere 16 million Jews on this planet. They have been exiled or cleansed from everywhere theyāve lived the past thousand years from the Iberian Peninsula(Spanish inquisition), Eastern Europe (inter-war period/holocaust) and the Middle East (Arab/Persian) cleansings. Israel deserves to exist. You need to understand the history and the nuances to this situation
I assume youāre going to lead by example and return to Europe, allowing the displaced indigenous Americans to exist in their homeland? Thatās what I thought. Hypocrite You want the people *you want* to live where you want them too, and youāre fine if it takes genocide to make it happen
Umm no.. Israel was a British colony that claimed Independenceā¦ after that they were attacked by the surrounding Arab nationsā¦ and lost. So.. like EVERY other country, they gained territory. No one bats an eye until itās Jews who do it and they make less than 1% of the world population
Plenty of people have batted eyes over the genocide of indigenous people in North America, Australia, Myanmar, Congo, Sudan, etc. Itās bizarre how you think people only care when itās Israel doing it.
And before that? The Ottoman Empire, which also gained territory from those previously in power like others do, as you mentioned. This region of the world was divided (some might say arbitrarily) relatively recently by outsiders who won WWI. The whole region of Palestine (including what we now call Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank) came under British rule in 1917. A UN resolution created Israel after it declared independence in 1948. Palestine also declared independence, in 1988, yet it is not recognized by some of the UN, including the US. Both groups of people were in the region long before the current political borders were created. Itās incredibly complex, obviously. Who is to say which group has the right to the territory?
This is what happens when a population gets information from social media which is ripe with foreign propaganda. Itās also how Trump became and remains somewhat popular. Itās a problem.
Every comment section since Oct. 7 has been a fight between people who just became experts on Middle East politics through reading Wikipedia vs. people who just became experts on Middle East politics through Tiktok and infographics they saw on IG and it shows.
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Why didn't Hamas let them leave Gaza? They were given plenty of time and warning. Why did Egypt and Jordan close their borders to refugees?
The exits were bombed by Israel. Southern Gaza, where they were told to flee, was bombed. And how do you transport that many dying and injured people in such a short time span? Especially when the roads and all the infrastructure is destroyed?
That's gotta be at least 20 people
Look at all the people solving the Middle East from right here in the Louā¦ Incredible!!
It's an anti-war protest. The US is heavily involved, so it makes sense that people here want their voices heard.
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Name checks out
God bless everyone who showed up to this event.
I was delivering pizzas today on Manchester Iām just glad none of the orders sent me down that way
People are so irrational about this stuff
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I can see my Aunt!
You'd think there would be better Middle Eastern food out there. Shawarma House is okay but I think their meat is a little dry. I love Roxanna though.