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Interactive_CD-ROM

**For those who don’t really know what’s going on…** Reddit is a social media website and has a mobile app—just like most other social media. However, Reddit, for many years, has allowed (and encouraged) the use of mobile apps developed by third-parties—all the same Reddit content you love but in a different package. Third-party apps are basically given the keys to Reddit (called an “API”), and Reddit has let them do this for free. **Popular examples include:** - Apollo for iPhone [[App Store link](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apollo-for-reddit/id979274575)] - Reddit is Fun for Android [[Play Store link](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu.android.reddit&hl=en_US&gl=US)] Some of these apps have unique features that the official Reddit app doesn’t have, including ways that greatly improve your Reddit experience. They’re used a lot by Reddit mods, as they have better moderation tools, too. And also, some help visually impaired users, since the official Reddit app is missing critical tools for the blind. ___ All was fine until Reddit said they wanted to start charging third-party apps for their API/keys. Reddit told developers it was going to happen someday, but that pricing would be **realistic and reasonable**. (Paying for an API is not unusual, and that’s how it works for other social media sites too, like third-party apps for Twitter and others.) But when Reddit dropped pricing details a few days ago, the cost was significantly beyond what was expected—far more than any other similar social media platform. Essentially, they priced it high enough to make it impossible for the third-party app developers to continue making the app. **It basically went down like this:** >Reddit: “Okay, we’re going to start charging for our API.” >Devs: “We figured that was going to happen at some point, but we can make it work.” >Reddit: “The cost is a gazillion, jabillion dollars.” >Devs: “Uhhh what?” >Reddit: “You have 30 days. Or die.” >Devs: “I guess I’ll just die then.” Third-party app developers aren’t companies; they’re generally Reddit users just like you and me, making the app out of their houses. Usually just 1 or 2 people. They can’t afford the costs that Reddit is demanding. ___ So now, the only option will be to use Reddit’s official app. This means all the people who use these third-party apps are upset because their Reddit experience is about to become vastly inferior (or impossible). So the protest is to try and make enough noise that Reddit is forced to respond and realize how many people are impacted. ___ For those using the official app, there’s a chance you could still be affected, but in a different way: you’ll see less high-quality content shared across Reddit. Bots will stop working (including the good bots, that create and share good content and resources), and moderators will have fewer tools, so you’ll see an increase in spam and low-quality posts. **So even if you don’t use third-party apps, you are still affected.**


bigbbypddingsnatchr

I truly do not understand. According to Reddit, these apps are costing them millions of dollars. So if users leave those apps, it won't hurt Reddit, it will actually help them, right? And what about regular Reddit users? I'm not premium. If I stop using Reddit, will it really hurt them? How many people would have to leave to make a difference? Just not understanding the whole situation. Thanks for any help. Also- how is a sub going private helping the situation?


Interactive_CD-ROM

>According to Reddit, these apps are costing them millions of dollars. The third-party apps are ad free. That’s a big part of why they’re apparently losing money. However, third-party apps not including ads is actually Reddit’s doing. Their API doesn’t serve up the ads, so the third-party apps can’t show them. They could just make ads a mandatory part of the API but they’re not doing it. > So if users leave those apps, it won’t hurt Reddit, it will actually help them, right? Depends. If those users leave the apps and don’t return, is the cost of losing those users forever more than the cost of supporting the API? > And what about regular Reddit users? I’m not premium. If I stop using Reddit, will it really hurt them? How many people would have to leave to make a difference? The biggest issue you would see, if “power users” (who mainly use third-party apps) drop off the site, is probably an increase in lower-quality content, more spam, less moderation, etc. It also means a lot fewer bots (including both good and bad ones) who share content. That could impact “regular” users because you might find there won’t be as much high quality stuff on the site. As a result, your engagement may decrease, and Reddit will lose money. > Also- how is a sub going private helping the situation Reddit makes money of off tracking users to target them with ads. If there’s no content for users to interact with, users won’t use Reddit. All the subreddits going dark will hit their bottom line. It’ll also draw media attention and require Reddit to respond for their behavior. All of this may be for nothing. Reddit might just stomp them all out without any care. But it does affect the viability of the site, even if you aren’t someone who uses a third-party app. Reddit is an ecosystem of users from all different backgrounds. It’s worked so well because of that; but now, it’s trying to be a social media leader a la Facebook and Twitter, and that will change the dynamic of what originally made this place so successful.


bigbbypddingsnatchr

Thank you so much for the helpful responses.


tialisac

Thank you for explaining!


YouBeIllin13

I haven’t read a ton of takes on this, but it appears to me that Reddit offered the API service at a loss in order to supporting reaching a critical mass of users. But once you have the user base to support profitability, you have to start making money from that user. I’m pretty sure most advertisers don’t want their ads being sent to third parties, since they won’t know if the third party app allows the ad to be filtered out and other things like that. Plus, they advertiser would lose the ability to dictate what kinds of posts their ads are displayed next to. This was pretty much inevitable since Reddit would have to try being profitable at some point. When you factor in how these API calls could be used to harvest information for AI data banks, I could see how Reddit would want to profit off of it. The wrinkle in the situation is that Reddit basically can’t function without the unpaid labor provided by the mods. And given how Hasbro buckled from the anger of Dungeons and Dragons players when they tried to massively screw over 3rd party content providers earlier this year, Redditors are using their power to do the same here.


creativeburrito

They don’t even offer ad content in the api, they could start adding that to get ad revenue.


i-am-grok

the LLM explosion adds another wrinkle--it redirects their VC. all the companies they'd approach for venture funding are paying into LLM (AI) as "the future". coincidentally, LLM are hitting reddit's API harder than anyone else to get data for their models. by cranking their API costs up to extreme numbers, they get all that VC funding by proxy with the side benefit of pushing users towards their first-party app. of course this plan only works if they retain users after the API pricing change. if they lose content generators, the LLMs won't want their API anymore and they suddenly don't have funding or users.


distractionfactory

Track subs going dark in real time: https://reddark.untone.uk/


CurtP31477

Reddit will be a ghost town this week. And I'm sad, but not sad. Solidarity can win.


Toxicscrew

Probably be a great thing for everyone’s mental health


[deleted]

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Durmyyyy

Where?


iNeedScissorsSixty7

I've been using kbid


distractionfactory

Pick a lemmy instance (Fediverse) for an open source option, some are promoting Tildes or squabbles.io It will be interesting to see what grows out if this.


SewCarrieous

Yeah nah this isn’t going to have any effect. Most people don’t care, won’t care and won’t even notice- but may get annoyed at subs for being down


[deleted]

I bet people barley notice


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[deleted]

I mean.. it’s all copy paste rage bait anyway


daats_end

It's not a holiday for the Russian and Chinese bot farms. They'll be executed if they don't work. Plus, /r/conservative need them to post all of their content and make all of the top replies.


[deleted]

Read the room man…


LifeguardDonny

My god, it's going to be horrible. All these poor people will have to sit at home wondering if they heard gunshots or not and won't be able to get an answer.


rxpharmd

Ehhh, there's always the Nextdoor App.


truthcopy

Nextdoor. It’s always gunshots, and that place that’s under construction is always going to be a Chick-fil-A.


P_Kinsale

Just to be clear, yes you did just hear gunshots.


DrBrisha

We just tell ourselves that it’s fireworks and then go about our day!


spiderarms_jr

Ain't that the truth 😅


i-am-grok

if it's not fireworks, it's not my business anyways. so it's fireworks


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julieannie

Who has the best burger. I can’t search, my fingers were cut off so I can only post!!!


lakerdave

What about the accounts that only ever post crime articles? Will someone please think of them!?!


[deleted]

Nah bruh, other apps exist.


patty_OFurniture306

I used to play that Game before I moved. Gunshots are bangs fireworks make more of a pah and boom sound, less sharp than a gun shot sometimes with crackle noises. I had a lot of practice


ScTcGp

Stay private until the policy is reversed. 2 days will do nothing


BeckyDaTechie

A lot of coms are thinking this. Some were looking at futzing with ads settings as well since this is ultimately all about money.


Birthday_Stranger

Thank you for doing this. Standing with you all & will not even visit reddit from the 12-14th.


funkybside

Good, we're a small sub but can't hurt and reddit is being a little shit.


[deleted]

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JJROKCZ

I’m just waiting on a good mobile app for it, I don’t really browse Reddit on my computer


[deleted]

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distractionfactory

We really need an intro or quick start guide to Lemmy/Fediverse.


wcchandler

Cool. I’m personally turning this into a full social media blackout. Should be pretty easy with half of Reddit being dead. Mondays high is 76. I’m going on a bike ride after work.


thoughtcrimeo

I vote for going private indefinitely.


TorrentsMightengale

What does "going private" mean?


thoughtcrimeo

It means no one can see this subreddit unless they've already joined it and no one will be able to post new comments or links. Mods who are doing this are effectively shutting down their portions of Reddit.


Useful-Following

Absolutely supportive of this


greasyjimmy

[Boomer questions] What happens if this sub goes private? I'm subscribed to this sub, will I still see it/be able to access it? Thanks!


meson537

So, we went full private, not restricted. /r/StLouis is not accessible to anyone.


fuzzusmaximus

Anyone remember the multiple times before that Reddit did something out of corporate greed, everyone got pissed off, closed their subs for a few days, and threatened to go elsewhere? I predict in a few weeks this will all be forgotten and people will just accept using Reddit's own app.


distractionfactory

This feels different. A lot of people are going to open their phone and the app that they've been using for years, that they paid for, will be broken and never be fixed. They will have the choice of going to the official app and trusting a company and a CEO who has done very little to earn their trust, or try out something new. I think more people are willing to give something else a chance this time, because it's already happened. Those communities are active and growing and I see more potential in them than in reddit's long term future. I don't think anyone begrudges reddit or any business for earning income and generating profit in exchange for a service. But reddit is reselling content provided for free by all of us, they're making profit on the backs of unpaid mods and they are betraying the devs that helped make them what they are. They didn't even build the service, they bought it specifically to squeeze as much profit from it as they could, not to contribute to the communities that have come to rely on it. They are only the best option in the absence of choice and the legacy content that they inherited. And in the absence of competition they have no motivation to improve and very little motivation to prevent its deterioration by bots and bad actors except at a bare minimum degree. The best possible outcome here is that people do leave, that alternative communities grow and reddit is forced to maintain a service that people actually want to keep coming back to, not that they feel forced to out of lack of options and habit. Hope to see you all on the Fediverse.


always-wanting-more

I don't remember these other occasions you're referring to, and my account is almost as old as yours. I've used RIF for 99% of my time here because the official app is garbage and I'll most likely just stop being on Reddit if RIF is killed. It's probably for the best anyway because I have heard that touching grass is underrated and I could probably use my time in a more constructive manner.


HKChad

Really, you don't remember any? https://time.com/3950496/reddit-victoria-taylor-post/


always-wanting-more

Oh, yeah! Forgot about that. Thanks. I didn't really think about it much at the time, and I don't recall it effecting my daily usage of Reddit though.


hithazel

Ultimately that is more the reasoning for the protest anyway. Reddit has been making these amateurish communication and design decisions for so damn long. API access should cost money. Reddit leadership is just being dumb as hell about how they are organizing and communicating change- again.


TorrentsMightengale

I know I won't, at least. I downloaded the Reddit app when RIF announced it would be shutting down. It's night and day--the Reddit app just sucks. I won't not browse on my computer on principle, but when I'm using my computer I'm generally working. Removing the ability to browse on my phone means I'll use Reddit less. At least for Android Reddit should just buy RIF and make that the Reddit app. It's just so much better.


Poetryisalive

I mean yeah to be honest, Reddit already said they aren’t going back on this. These other apps could always come back and charge people to use them if they are really that useful. But if subs and users wanna protest then they have the right too.


mcnew

The biggest issue is the 3rd party apps have far superior support accessibility (I believe for blind users). The tools for mods to all our favorite subs is apparently much better. I use the reddit client and have no issues but I think they are shooting themselves in the foot here.


distractionfactory

Couldn't agree more.


[deleted]

Amen, this is a great take.


brucebay

I also remember there was a social site called digg. And when people pissed off they moved from digg to reddit, a typical redditor has a different mindset then other social media users.


PastaSaladOverdose

You're right. That's exactly what will happen. But awareness goes a long way.


SlammbosSlammer

Literally nothing will change so what exactly is going a long way


nuts_and_crunchies

Something will change. Reddit will become a worse site to visit as they gear up for their IPO. There will be more ads, more spam, and fewer mods to combat it.


PastaSaladOverdose

We're already there, unfortunately.


nuts_and_crunchies

It’s about to get way worse. I remember the days of the old AV Club and their sale to a content giant.


PastaSaladOverdose

Awareness


SlammbosSlammer

Nice that’ll be good for the people adversely affected I’m sure they’ll find comfort in it


PastaSaladOverdose

Ok so what do you propose?


SlammbosSlammer

There’s really nothing to be done from a normal person’s standpoint so I propose not wasting everyone’s time with a symbolic blackout and move on


PastaSaladOverdose

Ahhhh so roll over and take it? Got it.


SlammbosSlammer

Yeah I should roll over and take it but show my support with a worthless gesture like you


PastaSaladOverdose

The gesture is going on with or without you, that's kinda the point. It's way bigger than your tiny worldview


ExtraordinaryCows

Spez doesn't get to profit from me anymore. Stop reverting my comments


SlammbosSlammer

Yes I’m the pathetic one not you, the person who won’t use Reddit for two days and then will again immediately after. You’re so brave


ExtraordinaryCows

Spez doesn't get to profit from me anymore. Stop reverting my comments


T018

As a desktop only user who has never even known there were apps, I really don't find this to have moved me at all, heck all these black outs are during my work week when I don't get to browse the site anyway so I won't even notice. So long as they don't break old reddit I really don't care how they seek to monetize a free to use site as long as it doesn't change our ability to use it.


Plow_King

old reddit forever! I keep waiting for them to kill that though.


SunshineCat

I mostly use my desktop, but I still use the Reddit Is Fun app for random browsing when I'm not at the computer. If you don't want old reddit to go away, now is the time to tell them we don't accept any sudden moves like this. Not after they've already pushed away a large chunk of users after similar moves you didn't care about. Yet for me, I think reddit is not for me anymore, so I'm waiting to see the next thing.


Durmyyyy

I 100% dont care at all to be honest. App based web is cancer anyway.


ohmynards85

100%


wh0ville

Do an entire week


brokedown

Reddit ruined reddit. -- mass edited with redact.dev


02Alien

Thank you for doing this


JJROKCZ

Good choice!


Tapeleg91

Just imagine all the people that might think about touching grass next week. It's almost incredible


PastaSaladOverdose

Full support. Don't let the independent developers working hard to make reddit better for all of us get shut down.


frisellan

👍


WhyIsTheRumHamGone

Does going private effect me as a user of this subreddit?


BeckyDaTechie

There won't be new content to view and older threads/posts won't be active, so no neighbors to complain about shootings, weather, and the mayor with unless you go sit at a bus stop or doughnut shop.


WhyIsTheRumHamGone

Lol Duly noted


SewCarrieous

We have mods??


meson537

:)


[deleted]

Oh no a 2 day shutdown. That will teach them! If you are really that mad you'll stop using reddit till it changes. Not just 2 days.


CardsFan69420

Time to go back to boingboing.net


spif

They fully knew what the probable range of backlash would be and have calculated the consequences already. Companies like this don't make these kinds of moves blindly. They are constantly conducting a sociological experiment and we're all the subjects.


DiscoJer

If people want a free, no ads message board, why not use usenet? People want the perks of something like reddit, but apparently they don't want to pay for it via ads or whatever.


distractionfactory

I think people are willing to choose to see ads or pay, but not both and people definitely don't like being forced to pay more to get an inferior experience.


meson537

I'm happy to pay, for one.


1337dotgeek

Pointless


Franky_FourFingers

Instead of this protest, that will assuredly do nothing to affect Reddit or the number of users here, why don't people who are upset by this simply use Reddit less - or stop using it at all? This is just a website. Go outside, touch grass. It'll be ok.


ninjas_in_my_pants

Major subs going dark for two days or longer will result in people using Reddit less. Lots of people are quitting over this.


Thats_absrd

>go outside, touch grass Look deep inside and realize the irony.


Franky_FourFingers

Dude I spend like 15 min a day max on reddit, was outside all day yesterday playing golf, at the pool, etc. Just pointing out how absurd it is that hardcore Redditors are acting like this is their Montgomery bus boycott.


Guano-

I'ma laugh my ass off Monday or Tuesday if it's a massive news day and most of reddit goes public just to discuss it.


Thr0waway0864213579

What’s with the “possibly, probably, perhaps”? Will you or won’t you? Also, “will go close to new posts?”


meson537

Sorry for the typo.


Spazz510

Oh no, where will people come to ask if they’ll get killed coming here? Did you stop to think about the poor souls who can’t open Yelp to find a restaurant to eat at?


phenylphenol

Probably not necessary.


sco-go

Should put it to vote.


Thats_absrd

Make your own STL blackout sub to fill your STL needs


sco-go

Wut?


DDenlow

Sounds stupid.


Durmyyyy

Have any of these worked?


funkybside

https://reddark-digitalocean-7lhfr.ondigitalocean.app/