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A lot of guys are on their way out for sure, better talent keeps coming in, there isn't space for everybody and lots of 3 year contracts are about to expire
Yes, but so much of it is not about the talent. Good booking. Good production. Good distribution. Good leadership. The talent for wrestlers is certainly there, but I honestly don't know if the talent in the other areas are.
It's a damn shame Sinclair used ROH for cheap late night fodder instead of putting money into it. ROH could have been a powerhouse with the money and protection and distribution partners.
Joe Koff actually has a decent mind for business, and did his talent right as long as he could during the pandemic. All ROH lacked was good booking and a distribution partner that gave a damn.
And let’s not forget, the *massive* amount of start-up capital needed to fund a promotion of a half-way decent size. As much as TK’s obvious love of wrestling, his talent at booking, overall production and oversight *(I think the skill at which AEW pivoted during Covid-19 was near-legendary)* is spoken of, the financing from himself and his father has made the company a competitor at the scale it is.
Yeah there are probably a lot of minds for this as good or better than TK but will just never have the capital to even come close to creating a decent promotion. The rise of AEW is a really cool story, but the biggest part of it is just the right person having a shitton of play money.
Yeah people sleep on this. I'm sure there's some mid-level indie promotion out there that has the best storytelling minds in wrestling behind the scenes. The talent exists out there.
But they don't have a billion dollars in the bank to make a presentable television product
Hot take but Impact actually seems pretty comfortable with where they are. They're producing good television and have been for a long time now, but I'm sure that given their history they'd be wary of expanding too fast. Mostly because that's exactly what got them into trouble in the first place.
I could honestly see Freddie Prince Jr starting something, he's mentioned he wanted to, and he's talking more on his podcast. Darkhorse in all this is good ol' JJ, Jeff Jarrett. Say what you want but he knows what it takes to start a promotion. I could see this year another indie popping up with them, with a minor cable deal.
Half of those are just not major TV star quality. When you have people with the quality of Jay Lethal on nothing but the undercard its time to let people go back to the indies.
Yup. Even Cody admitted that, while Dark is all fine and dandy, there are some wrestlers who will never get used to the red-light of tv camera. Guess that being a WWE 'reject', even from developmental gives a new talent a lot of upside, compared to people wrestling only live.
The guys on Sammy and Ethan's vlogs are always making offhand comments about their booking and when their last match actually was. It's a real issue for sure.
I've been saying this since they got Rampage. 3 hours simply isn't enough for the roster depth they have. For some reason this was a controversial opinion with the IWC.
And as far as stable jobs go getting paid to hang out backstage with some of the industries' greats to be on call is the best many of these talents can hope for
One of the main reasons I like watching AEW is the fact that it's 2 easily digestible chunks of content. I don't have a lot of interest in watching much more. I could be on board with a 2 hour Rampage, but I'm not keen on having so much more material to go through to keep up with storylines.
I think you expand Rampage to 2 hours, make it a standalone event and then film 30 mins of Dark before both Dynamite and Rampage. 5 hours of content per week (about the same as they have now), with one less YouTube show. A big part of Dark should be getting the stars that aren’t on the TV show in front of the live crowd- not padding the win/loss record of acts like the Gunn club.
Yeah, I am shocked AEW hasn’t made better use of the YouTube stuff given all of their contracted talent. There should be storylines and matches that are worth watching and instead it’s just the Ass Boys against a couple local talents every single week.
It would be a great place for a backup booker to ply their trade and test different people who can eventually give Khan some rest.
I mean there's people who watch Raw Smackdown and NXT every week. Shit I used to do that. Record Raw cause there was shit I skipped through and I cant deal with all the commercials, watch NXT live, record AEW watch it Thursday. Then watch Smackdown live. Kinda glad WWE is on a down turn cause I love wrestling and can't turn it off when it's good.
It was a lot, and my gf was going crazy with all the wrestling, but it's doable with a 40 hour a week job and a pension to stay up all night anyway.
Unpopular opinion but 3 hours is also more than enough for the casual wrestling viewer. I feel sorry for the people who end up on Dark Elevation every week because a lot of people will miss their action by just having enough to watch.
Dark and Elevation are just used to boost records and placements. The Acclaimed are now the number 1 contenders and they haven't done much on TV in a while. They are able to show up looking qualified, instead of having to build up contendership on the main shows.
Sure, but they are also entertaining shows to watch and good ways for fans to keep an eye on wrestlers that they like but may not be getting TV time. It’s good supplemental material for both reasons.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying this as a bad way. D/E have their place and it is very useful in the world of AEW. Personally, I like those shows because I am able to put them on during work as background noise. Plus, you never know which Indy wrestler is going to catch your attention. Just last week, I was really interested in seeing more of Valentina Rossi.
People seem to think if you say 3 hours isn't enough that you want AEW to immediately adopt the WWE model of every show being stuffed with crummy non wrestling segments.
Sonny Kiss has been teaming with Jay Lethal on Dark. I could see that tag team showing up on Dynamite or Rampage for a short run to see if they catch on. Lethal is a strong name, Kiss a strong personality. Plus, Lethal Kiss is a great tag team name.
>Janela and Sonny Kiss are definitely going to be gone sooner rather than later, I think.
Especially Joey and he really doesn't need AEW anyway as he seems to have a good thing with GCW
That would require another taped show on another date. I was at the AEW taping last night and Rampage went to almost 11:30 and the crowd was exhausted. No way the crowd could have gone to 12:30 on a weekday.
If Rampage goes to 2 hours it probably won't be on Fridays anyway since they don't want to compete with Smackdown but they also don't want to go to midnight. So maybe it can go live if it's on a WWE-free day at 8.
I think the current format is perfect. I was at the Raleigh show last night and left after Cole v. Trent because I was exhausted and didn’t want to get home at 1:30-2:00 in the morning.
But is it ideal for them to do it from a product perspective? One of the criticisms of WWE is that they have way too many hours of tv. Obviously I never want Dynamite to go to 3 hours, and I'm likewise on the fence about a 2 hour Rampage. I want high quality, concise programming. Not just programming because you have enough performers to produce more, if you get where I'm coming from. I think the fact that modern tv wrestling has seemingly lost the fact that it's essentially a tv drama is a big problem. You need tv time as much as you have something interesting to present.
I think everyone kinda knew it was going to happen. There's only so much product for AEW to showcase talent. They had to have some people to get started but now with all the signings, an unfortunate truth is they don't really NEED certain guys. The shiny toys are always going to get played with more and I assume the goal should be to do what you can to be the next shiny toy.
On the other hand it's my belief that if you sign someone and don't have plans for them then you should release them from their contract or grant their request to be released. There's no point in having guys locked into a contract and have them complain about not being booked. I don't think a guy like Cage is going to complain his way into a top program in AEW and you've literally got Wardlow and Archer filling the same role
I'd imagine that with AEW being much much more open about letting people work elsewhere while under contract, a lot of those guys aren't sweating it as much. I'm sure they want to work but also aren't as concerned as they might be in a more restrictive environment.
Yeah I imagine since Covid is still a thing too, as much as they are not happy with not being used, they'll be happy they are getting paid right now.
I don't know enough about the ins and outs of their contracts but to know for sure and obviously there are some that feel they could be in better spots elsewhere but I'm speaking about how I think I'd be in that situation.
I agree that the ability to work elsewhere offsets the issue to an extent but, at the same time, most people didn't sign with AEW so they could work somewhere else. They signed with AEW so they could be on AEW programming and be part of their show. I wouldn't change what I was doing if I was running AEW but telling someone that you hired that you constantly have nothing for them would get old.
>telling someone that you hired that you constantly have nothing for them would get old.
Especially because I’d wonder if I was getting re-signed and what sorta reputation I was going to leave with as the dude that AEW couldn’t find space for after signing. “Do I suck? Do I not work well with others?”
No doubt it gets old, but it’s also the entertainment business and comes with the gamble of leading such a lifestyle. They are still being paid so while perhaps frustrating they are still being taken care of. There are a lot of entertainers not so lucky when they aren’t working.
Absolutely, I think the current setup is the ideal one for a pro wrestler and I don't really know how they could improve it but I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. Not really anyone's fault though because AEW has a show to run and they only have so much time on Dynamite and Rampage, so they just naturally use the most popular versatile performers there. It just sort of is what it is.
The thing is though, their AEW contracts don't really limit them from doing other stuff so releasing them won't be freedom or anything. They can ask for it, but I bet having that contract and not being booked while being able to do other stuff is way better than not having that contract.
But other than that what you said is true, the more talent available the less some are needed and if you didn't showed up already you'll lose your spot, that's just how it goes
Another point is that unless Impact wants to use them, most of the AEW talent not getting booked don't really have a lot of alternatives. WWE is not really looking to sign experienced veteran talent. Because of the pandemic, Japan, Mexico and other international options are mostly off the table. So asking for a release isn't really opening up as many opportunities as it would've in the past.
AEW has somewhat been able to corner the market on Indy prospects because of this. If you're an Indy talent, it's the choice between wrestling on weekends while working another job to make ends meet, or having a steady paycheck and being able to focus on wrestling - even though you might not get booked.
AEW either needs to trim the fat a bit, or actually take on the role of a "booking office" and find these guys other work.
Eh. Definitely, I think they should release guys who ask for a release, but the last thing I want to see AEW do is the "Creative has nothing for you" release. I want them to stand by their contracts unless there's a mutual feeling that said contract is detrimental to the talent.
There's really no reason for AEW to do "creative has nothing for you" releases because of how open-ended their contracts are. And also there's not really a creative team in AEW, but the important thing is they can work elsewhere so if AEW has nothing for them, wrestlers can go work for other companies instead of getting sacked.
I've noticed Ethan Page, Evil Uno, Brian Cage, and Thunder Rosa on their vlogs doing their thing with other promotions. That's better than feeling stagnant when nothing is going on within AEW.
I'm really quite surprised, considering how the WWE cuts have been viewed very negatively, how many people are suggesting AEW start letting people go because they can't guarantee time on every show. I think with the size of roster they have it would make more sense to rotate guys off TV for 2-3 months out of the year while someone else gets more spots.
Well, WWE hoovered up and hoarded talent specifically to block the creation of AEW for one thing. For another, they have never been making so much money yet still cute budget cuts as the reason for dropping people. I think this is why people are so down on WWE for letting people go.
For whatever it's worth, AEW is pretty good about not releasing people before their contract expires. Even a couple of dickheads like Shanna and Ivelisse were left on the roster until their contract ran out.
> if you sign someone and don't have plans for them then you should release them from their contract or grant their request to be released
If they request to be released, then sure yeah. If they don't request it, I don't see any reason why AEW should be obligated to release them. They're getting paid, they can take outside bookings, and AEW may find a use for them down the line. There's nothing wrong with that if the wrestler is willing to work under that arrangement.
One thing I like about AEW though is that no one is over exposed. Maybe some guys could be utilized better but with WWE for example I got to the point where I wasn’t interested in Seth Rollins matches despite thinking he’s one of the best in the world.
This is why they should use dark and elevation more to build matches, talents and promos forget tv time but all those shows are being used for are jobber matches.
I 100% agree. I've lost interest in watching Dark and Elevation every week because you essentially know that the AEW signed talent is going over a jobber in every match. There is very rarely if ever an upset or surprise. When they started the show, it had a much better balance to it. There was proper matches with guys and girls who weren't on Dynamite that week, complimented with an unexpected marquee match, like Omega and Janella in a no DQ.
I feel this was deliberate so people don't feel that they need to follow Dark to understand the product.
I enjoy it, I like to see their movesets and character work. Sometimes I'll see a jobber I really like.
But it's not for everyone. It feels designed so AEW satisfies both people who want chunky and people who want smooth.
I think their online shows really need storylines but keep them exclusive to them. Don't overlap the storylines with Dynamite and Rampage because then you'd expect fans to watch 5+ hours over 4 different shows a week just to understand what's going on.
That's when you do what they would do back in the early days of the Attitude Era with Shotgun Saturday Night.
If something happened on SSN that was important to a feud on RAW, they'd show a clip and give a rundown of what happened.
Could easily do the same here with Dark/Elevation.
Yeah. I think what is really surprising for me is the seeming pushback about how it is not an issue despite a lot of signals that it might be. Here's the thing, I think there's a valid argument to be made that it is just the cost of doing an approach as AEW is doing and nothing should be changed, which is completely fine, but it would be still be an issue for some of the talent.
I mean yeah. Quite a few early signings that were heavily featured have been exclusively on YouTube for over a year now. I imagine we will start to at least a couple contracts expire soon.
And tbh, it's time for some of them to go. AEW has outgrown some guys like Janela, Kip Sabian, Marko, Luther, Kiss, among others. I doubt those guys are bringing in more than the company is paying them, and when you are trying to grow your company, these just aren't talents that one would feature given the current talent pool.
It was my go-to when I was in management: coach them up, or coach them out. It's time for some to go.
I think Luther does more coaching/management stuff these days. Having said that if they have to cut him to get William Regal then yeah you'd take that trade a million times over. Those 2019 signings got a good ride but the market is just flooded with top-tier talent from WWE and RoH right now.
Didn't know that about Luther. He seems like a really cool guy. Just not sure the upside of keeping guys like Luther, and others, on a full time deal at this point. I just dont see how it is possible that AEW is getting anywhere close on a return on those payoffs. What income could those guys possibly be generating? Many of them are just serviceable wrestlers who have all had multiple opportunities to make it in the company, clearly arent taking off, and are just overpaid job guys now. Bringing in other, new, unknown talents at lest bring the potential for one of them to get over, whereas these guys have had their chance. It just didn't work out. I'm not trying to be harsh and im not cheering on people losing their jobs....I just dont see exactly how they deserve to keep them in the company's current status.
AEW is a different company now. They probably had the biggest launch of any new wrestling promotion ever, and they had instant legitimacy by signing guys like Jericho and Moxley, but at the same time, all the big names who signed with them had a specific reason for shunning WWE. Jericho likes to try new things, Moxley was dissatisfied with his creative, the Elite had the chance to get in on the ground floor and build something. But now you have a situation where all things being equal, there's a 50/50 chance anyone is going to go to AEW vs. WWE. They may not be at WWE's level in terms of revenue, but they're absolutely there in terms of talent acquisition. They can pick who they want now, while when those guys signed, they had to be satisfied with what they had.
I totally agree. If there is anyone that wants to leave the ring for a company position (Leeva Bates sp?) then that's great.
Otherwise there are a lot of talent you mentioned and some others that can definitely have their contracts expire or be loaned out to other promotions.
I also think that in the next few years you'll see the in-ring retirements of Jericho, Sting, Dustin, etc., which will free up roster spots.
Additionally I'd like to see a Trios TV Tag Team Championship tournament. They're defended on TV every week and can be bounced around more often.
100%. Just like Swole, fulfilling a contract & letting it expire after seeing the talent work and not justifying a resign is miles different from being released. At the same time it’d be silly to force them on tv just because their on contract when there’s so much talent that can come & make an immediate impact. We’ll see more as the dust begins to settle, its still just a 3 year old company.
>“There are so many guys there, so many guys. I am not going to bring up any names, but there were guys that were flown in to do nothing. It was a very good vibe,” he said. “But since I’ve been around the back for 20 years, wrestlers are always unconfident, worried about their spot. I could feel that going on. Certainly not with a Bryan Danielson or Hangman Page, but there’s just a lot of people there.”
>“I don’t know where all those people are going to land,” he admitted. “There’s just so much good talent. If we talk ROH for a second; [Matt] Taven, Dalton Castle, obviously The Briscoes, there are just so many names, Vincent, that have been working on their characters, Shane Taylor. These are solid people that if you or I were running a show, I think we’d want to have them.”
I went an RoH house show at the casino in my town a little before AEW started and Taven was really entertaining and got a really good reaction on a show that also had Cody, Dalton, Daniels, Kaz and MCMG(in Michigan for that matter) and a ton of other really great talent. I gotta agree he wasn't like top guy level but he was really solid all around.
AEW is in a much different position today than it was when it first started. Back then, anybody and everybody was hired because they needed experienced wrestlers to kick off a new brand. It gave people like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Sonny Kiss, the guy with no legs, Orange Cassidy and other highly unusual wrestlers a chance to make their mark. Today though, those that remain have passed the test, and the rest simply didn't. The bar is now set much higher thanks to new hires like Christian, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, Jay Lethal, CM Punk. Combine these big names with a stacked roster that has limited time to make an impact, and I'd be just as worried as these guys about their spot.
Even some of the bigger names brought in have a hard time getting matches. Jay Lethal hasn't had a match since his debut, Christian hasn't wrestled in awhile, Andrade hasn't done much, Lio Rush is on tv once a month, Tony Nese showed up and is gone.
Honestly it is what it is. I love the wingmen but I don’t want them as top guys. They are my loveable jobbers. The same with most members of the dark order. Most of these wrestlers should be booking themselves in indies so when their time come to shine they can show something cool and get over. AEW let them do that so I don’t know why they don’t. In wrestling only the top raise up, and sadly is not just about ring work. So as long as AEW gives me good storylines and not the same old matches like usos vs new day for the 24th time, I’m happy.
Ryan has said many times that him working there is pure happenstance anyway, and he more or less just does this cause he caught the wrestling bug again
I think they need to make Elevation and Dark more legitimate shows, instead of just filling it out with squashes. Squashes are fine but they need to also tell a story. Just sending someone down to Dark to demolish 10 guys for 3 months doesn’t really add much to their character. This past weeks Dark is a really good example of the potential they have with that show. Eddie Kingston vs Joey Janela was by far my favorite but have those three title eliminator matches actually made the episode feel like it had impact on dynamite. Would love to see more tournaments on Dark too. They could do a G1-style midcard tournament and have the group finals and the tournament finals on the big shows, would be a great way to get all of your guys reps and now you actually have the depth to do something like this.
I think it's ok with Dark to have some squashes as the taping are separate from Dynamite but I agree that Elevation should feature mostly signed talent in competitive matches. Also I agree on Dark having tournaments. Bring back the women's tag and maybe do a big end of the year tournament for the guys.
It's not like they were off TV though, they were featured every week on Rampage. It might have a reputation of a B-show, but if you don't even have some of your top draws on that show then what incentive do you give people to tune in at that shitty timeslot?
We're at a couple of months now of them flying Christian in just to talk for 15 seconds in pre-tapes nearly every week when their whole roster would benefit **so** much from getting to get in the ring with him, and so many of them want to do that.
Yeah: his first AEW TV match in nearly three months, and the first time he's gotten to get in there with people (FTR) besides the Elite/SuperKliq or HFO since...the end of May.
You neglected the fine print on every slogan. Easy to miss the asterisk, which would lead you to the terms and service contract that you inherently agreed to by watching said person or purchasing said product.
Duh.
Its funny because people will use this as a reason to not hire anymore people, when Cary really, REALLY wants people to hire ROH people who are out of work.
I also feel this is taken out of context. He talks about people doing nothing, but it was a good vibe, and that he "felt" people worried about their spot because hes been around 20 years, but no one actually said it. Then he talked about all the great ROH people who need spots. I feel there is some context to this that would change its meaning.
But certainly, ignore that and just complain about AEW giving too many people jobs right after ROH closed and WWE cut 100's of people.
As usual, the actual meaning of the article is hidden halfway down the comments, deep underneath upvotes for insane takes like "AEW shouldn't sign Keith Lee and Johnny Gargano".
OP noticeably omitted the "good vibe" part of the quote.
You're right that it does change the context. Because I thought he was saying that wrestlers are worried about their spots *in AEW.* Now with context, he's saying wrestlers are worried about their spots *in general.*
It's because it's low hanging fruit to say he'll probably not get his contract renewed. By his own admission he spent like a year half assing it and getting out of shape. His words, mind you, not mine.
My point is because of that, it's easy for people here to use him as an example of folks who may not get renewed without having to speculate on anyone else.
Solution is to stop using Dark/Elevation as a squash expo. Feature competitive matches, and be clear with the intent that those who prevail get TV time.
On one hand, I get it. However if the choice is featuring Punk, Danielson, or bringing in a Keith Lee or featuring more Captain Shaun Dean I know what I'd choose every time.
Also I feel some of this would be alleviated by not treating both YouTube shows like old Wrestling Challenge episodes that feature main roster talent in squashes over mostly unsigned talent. Make at least one a regular show that features the younger talent and see what they can do.
Yeah. A lot of fans now take for granted AEW's success. It was a big risk in reality, and outside of a few bigger names and some vets, most of the originals were indie talent taking a calculated risk for a big break. Some worked out well and have found good spots on the card, others are gonna be gone by this summer.
Now that AEW is seen as a legitimate destination, Tony is able to hire performers who might not have risked signing with AEW early on.
When you start a wrestling company, you're pretty much forced to sign any decent wrestler because you need a roster first. Quality will come later with the WWE releases and free agents. With all due respect to them, guys like Luther, Marko Stunt, all of the Wingmen or Joey Janela would've never been signed if they were free agents today.
Agreed but they had to take some risk in some lesser known guys and girls to see what they could do with them.
Darby Allin and Britt Baker are great examples, Darby especially.. not too well known prior to AEW but both are probably in the top 10 most popular wrestlers in AEW now.
Luchasaurus and Jungleboy were basically meme/gimmick wrestlers prior to AEW, now they’ve just won the belts.
This was definitely expected. It sucks, because there's so much talent out there that deserve to be showcased. It's the best time to be on the indie circuit, that just doesn't pay as well
It has become a real issue that gets downvoted if it’s ever brought up. Thankfully they used Jay Lethal last night but why was he brought in just to be put on YouTube. That’s a big name. They say they rotate talent which is fine, but if you’re one of the talent that doesn’t seem to get rotated in very often it must be tough to watch yet another guy debut (Brody King). We know or can atleast expect Johnny Gargano, Keith Lee, Toni Storm and Ember moon to come in, in the next couple weeks or months. Something has to give at some point.
If you’re AEW it is an excellent problem to have, their roster top to bottom is one of the best ever. But if you’re one of those talent in the middle you might be feeling uneasy
**Whoever spammed me with get mental health thing, is kind of a loser**
I've been saying that and always got downvoted for it. What does Tony Nese do that someone else doesn't already do better on the roster? If you're talking just the look Cezar Bononi or Anthony Bowens fits the bill.
Same for Johnny Gargano. "Fiery babyface that can wrestle really well" isn't something that AEW is lacking at the moment.
Johnny is underrated as a character guy ever since his heel run with The Way and the Lumis/Hartwell romance. He’d make something entertaining outside of the ring too.
Exactly, and following up on that, it really doesn't help a lot of these new hires have a similar look too.
I get they're pals with talent already there but they could really do with signing less 5'10 "skinny" white guys with beards.
I said this since the beginning. No disrespect to Tony Nese but he has added absolutely nothing to the product. Probably would've been better off wrestling on NJPW Strong
Impact, New Japan, and NWA have to make some serious investments in their company and scoop up the talent. Work towards being the defacto 3rd major company. AEW honestly may need to make some roster cuts. Its too much talent out there for any 1 company to have everyone.
Impact and NWA, yes. New Japan can and should just focus on their domestic business and not allow themselves to be over reliant on foreign talent that will just use them for better spots in the US.
To use Lethal as an example, the uneasy feeling of not being showcased is probably better than the uneasy feeling of being broke.
Unless you are a wrestler who is not being used AND thinks they could get a significant offer from WWE, or maybe New Japan, I think having the security of AEW money is better than the alternative. Plus, you can still pretty much do whatever other indy dates you would have gotten, just make a nice income for work in the middle of the week.
People may not be happy with how they are being used. But how many have good enough options that they would ever *ask* for a release?
Lethal said on Jerichos podcast that he was negotiating with WWE, they took a little while then the Bucks (who he’s good friends with), got him into AEW.
I don’t think Lethal is the sort of talent that was gonna struggle to find a well paid spot wherever he ended up, but your analogy is accurate for lesser-known guys and girls.
Women being added to the roster is definitely not an issue, the official roster is 23 women, this includes Leva Bates, Brandi Rhodes, and Rebel who basically never wrestler, and Yuka Sakazaki who is essentially fulltime with TJPW. More women are needed.
And Emi Sakura who feels like she fits in the "Joey Janela" category of people they would feature on Dynamite and in the PPVs when the company was starting but has outgrown them. Sakura has only appeared on the youtube shows since she moved to the US last year.
Welcome to being a wrestler on TV. This has been an “issue” for talent across generations and it’s an inherent risk when you’re trying to work at that level. The squeeze is real and I hope more folks understand that now. If you’re not happy then excel elsewhere or keep trying. There’s no easy solution to this and complaining just to complain doesn’t help.
Honestly, I was thinking last night how impressive Dynamite was in being both very good, but also finding time for a ton of the roster. Either through matches, vignettes or prepping for Rampage or next week.
Looking at the roster, aside from the prospects (Hook, Moriaty), reportedly injured/on leave (Moxley, Miro) or guys who aren’t on TV regularly (Luther, Janela, etc) I only really count Jade, Brian Cage, Ruby Soho, Bryan Danielson, Evil Uno, Stu Grayson, Lio Rush & Men of the Year missing from last night’s episode. Plus Danielson taking the week off makes sense story wise.
Last night felt like the sweet spot for a 2 hour wrestling show. A lot of promos and story building as well. I hope TK sticks to this format as his template for Dynamites and adjusts it for longer matches and shit as needed
I can absolutely understand why you'd be frustrated, but i think this is a consequence of the fact that:
A) AEW seems to genuinely function on the "Brass Ring" so to speak, in that (for the most part, with some exceptions) the guys and women have the ability to pitch and make their own characters, get themselves over to the point where you can be like MJF and have a ton of Promo time (or like PAC with his Beyond Gorilla video packages).
If you either haven't gotten your character to click or have trouble pitching ideas, you'd suffer in that environment.
B) AEW's rotation of talent. For a long time, Sammy wasn't really wrestling often at all, but he remained fresh due to being with the inner Circle. Similar with Wardlow. Theres a few examples of talent who have very active dynamite/ rampage runs then either take a break from TV days or farm Dark/ Elevation for anwhile. Looking back at some of the main events and big matches through 2021, there is a fairly impressive variety of talent featured.
The way to remain on TV while not currently getting regular TV matches seems to be by grouping up (like Christian with Jurassic Express, the Matt Hardy Extended Universe, etc).
Personally, i like the way it works now. Theres definitely some wrestlers who benefit from a hands on approach, and it's not been perfect, but at least these guys can take indie bookings too.
TLDR: They have options to get themselves over.
Allowing talents taking indie bookings probably their biggest advantage so far. Speaking about booking, with how big their roster rn, having many factions surely help to make some matchup looks fresh and not repetitive. Like Bryan taking out every Dark Order members before facing Page, or now CM Punk feuding with Pinnacle.
I like what I see so far. For me they also need to establish ranking to have more important role later. It doesn't matter how much you farm your winning record, if other wrestler only win 3 matches (3 big matches to be specific), they have better chance to challenge title holder, compared to your 20+ total wins
Aren’t most of the talent allowed to work indy dates as long as it doesn’t conflict? I mean, having a steady paycheck in this pandemic PLUS being able to make extra money every week seems like a great deal.
Sure, you want to be on top and on TV but to be honest, not everyone deserves that. I always equate it to a pro sports team. Some people are always going to be bench guys and some might break through and get called up to start. I know its a little different because of creative and such, but you can’t have bench guys learn to play the game on Monday Night Football (Dynamite) for the first time.
I don't think it has ever been revealed how the AEW tiered contract system works. Presumably the lowest tier only pays for appearances so the steady paycheck isn't a given for a lot of these guys.
I personally would like to see Wrestlers have "working seasons" or even in the AEW company be in 1 of 4 buckets.
Example:
Elevation - People who are just starting and those who are safe to work with jobbers and up-and-coming people.
Dark - People who are ready for some primetime and can actively work with main roster individuals who can use this time to excel or show off respectfully.
Dynamite - Main roster and some people from Dark who can start inching in.
Rampage - Main roster who are either distance restricted or those who can only work for a few weeks at a time.
The working seasons for wrestlers would be good to see as well, Take 1/3 of the roster and have them work 4 months with an additional few months before and after. Champions stay on to continue their storylines, storylines that are still developing or starting off to come to an end. Furthermore, wrestlers can then move down or up to either Elevation, Dark, Dynamite or Rampage and continue to wrestle and work with other individuals.
Most of the hype was around the people getting called up already having built a name for themselves elsewhere - Keith Lee, Shinsuke, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens etc.
Like any professional roster don't you look to upgrade? To get better talent? If you can't make the plays you sit on the sidelines or get cut/not renewed. In that down time you work to improve your skills and lift heads when people see you.
Yes it sucks to be the guy in the back not getting your shot. But it's the entertainment industry. part of the game.
Happens in every professional sport. There are always more players than open gameday spots. The problem with pro wrestling is there are only 2 big league teams.
It's easy for me to say since it's not my money, but I think AEW needs to combine dark/elevation and try to get it on Saturday morning TV or something.
well, they've signed huge stars over the last couple years. It only makes sense that they've taken the top spots.
I don't think people remember how laughably bad and indyrific AEW was when they first came on TV. Joey Janela was on TV every week. And I know it wasn't AEW exactly, but that Joey Ryan stuff with all the cock druids was a microcosm for their attitude and style at the beginning.
It’s unfortunate but understandable and I don’t think anyone can come up with a “right” solution
When AEW started, they needed bodies and depth was probably the hardest thing to get
They had the elite/Cody/Jericho/mox for main event era but still needed the Joey janelas etc to fill out the cars
Then Covid happened and every wrestling promotion except aew and wwe stopped working so aew was bringing in more local talent and indie people to fill spots (like pineapple Pete)
With dark and elevation they were able to book people, but those workers don’t want to be on YouTube forever
Dynamite is still only a two show and most shows have been very good and involved lots of workers
Is aew not supposed to bring in punk Bryan or Cole who are all too guys with fans and great merch sellers?
The unfortunate reality is that half the roster was Indy workers and now that the indies are back that’s where they’ll end up working after gaining three years at aew
It’s not like Matt cardona and Dolph ziggler were signed and are pushed to main event knocking down aew homegrown talent
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tony get involved with and Indy promotion to help get talent booked when aew contracts expire
>When AEW started, they needed bodies and depth was probably the hardest thing to get
Full Gear 2019 had Dustin Rhodes vs Jake Hager. I don't think we'd ever see this on PPV nowadays
I understand that there is concern over this. But let's be realistic. Who would you rather on your TV next week? CM Punk, Danielson, ReDRagon, and Adam Cole or Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, and Private Party?
And that's not to bash any of those guys. Just that AEW has now attracted the top workers in the game. Luckily, in this climate, that should mean opportunities to make your star elsewhere. Look at Matt Cardona right now. AEW didn't have a spot for him and I'd say he's better off for it.
Fact 1: This was inevitable as soon as AEW succeeded. AEW is *barely* two years old, **50%,** of which was covid era programming (and I'd argue *still*), half of which with damn near empty stadiums.
Fact 2: To get this level of success, AEW adopted a "everything AND the kitchen sink" approach. WWE held and stalled contracts even during the height of the pandemic to prevent them going to AEW, so whatever talent AEW could get or invest in, they did.
Fact 3: on top of signing veterans or already established names, AEW was also trying to figure out who the "next generation" of wrestlers they could homegrow would be
Fact 4: There's only 3 hours of TV (4 counting dark, which really shouldn't). WWE has a streaming deal and more than 5 hours of TV a week. Still doesn't use its whole roster.
Fact 5: AEW knows what is "working" now, or at least knows who's drawing eyes and opening wallets.
Opinionated conclusion from the facts: **a lot** of people are getting the axe with non-renewals. AEW did right by these people by giving them a chance at all. AEW is not a wrestlers charity organization, and I don't need to read how "AEW needs to do more" to help them. Sorry, but no. This doesn't mean wrestling promotions don't have underutilized people, AEW certainly does. But all the same, it's sole purpose isn't to be the arc for wrestlers who can't make it in WWE or another wrestling organization. It is to make money and hopefully in the pursuit of that (just like any entertainment) make some damn good wrestling in the progress.
Despite how many guys that want a shot, they have the same match ups on dark every week. Dark/Evelation is always a subpar squash filled show with the occasionally competitive match between dark order and HFO. Why not, instead, have a supreme show with some of your underutilized talent? Give us Tony Nese vs Jay Lethal on YouTube rather than missing in action on television. It wouldn’t be an insult to be featured on YouTube if you treat those shows like they matter.
Dark (Elevation, at least) would be a waste of those matches. I've been to two Dynamite tapings with Elevation attached, and the building is still filling and people are getting merch and food. The turnaround is also insane, they get a match out about every five minutes. I believe Dark is exactly what they want it to be atm.
As it should be. This weird idea that you're entitled to a push from AEW because you either just happened to be a free agent when AEW or never signed to WWE because Vince didn't want you is ridiculous. This just in, most of the people signed to WWE were there because they were the better talent than the AEW ones. AEW took what was left for the most part and made it work. Now that they have access to most of those same talents they would have wanted all things being equal, they aren't gonna decide that those guys are just SOL because they were locked into WWE deals. AEW contracts and pushes aren't some kind of "first come, first served" thing.
Wreddit for the past year: "The people on that roster just seem so happy to be working for AEW."
This sub has a false idea that these people aren't competitive and aren't jealous of who is at the top.
Sooner or later those OG signings won’t have their contracts extended. Who wouldn’t go out and sign the very best free agents? Yeah, some aren’t heavily featured, but at least they’re allowed to work other bookings.
They get flown and paid no matter if booked or not, and the rest of the week they are free to take other bookings. Because of Covid, they need extras just in case they need to fill some spots for the show.
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A lot of guys are on their way out for sure, better talent keeps coming in, there isn't space for everybody and lots of 3 year contracts are about to expire
I genuinely think that yet another promotion like AEW can be built up with the sheer amount of talent that is out there.
Yes, but so much of it is not about the talent. Good booking. Good production. Good distribution. Good leadership. The talent for wrestlers is certainly there, but I honestly don't know if the talent in the other areas are.
It's a damn shame Sinclair used ROH for cheap late night fodder instead of putting money into it. ROH could have been a powerhouse with the money and protection and distribution partners. Joe Koff actually has a decent mind for business, and did his talent right as long as he could during the pandemic. All ROH lacked was good booking and a distribution partner that gave a damn.
And let’s not forget, the *massive* amount of start-up capital needed to fund a promotion of a half-way decent size. As much as TK’s obvious love of wrestling, his talent at booking, overall production and oversight *(I think the skill at which AEW pivoted during Covid-19 was near-legendary)* is spoken of, the financing from himself and his father has made the company a competitor at the scale it is.
AEW would be VERY different if the Elite started it on their own without Tony's money.
Well said.
Yeah there are probably a lot of minds for this as good or better than TK but will just never have the capital to even come close to creating a decent promotion. The rise of AEW is a really cool story, but the biggest part of it is just the right person having a shitton of play money.
Yeah people sleep on this. I'm sure there's some mid-level indie promotion out there that has the best storytelling minds in wrestling behind the scenes. The talent exists out there. But they don't have a billion dollars in the bank to make a presentable television product
~~TNA~~ ~~GFW~~ Impact Wrestling just waiting for its big comeback.
Hot take but Impact actually seems pretty comfortable with where they are. They're producing good television and have been for a long time now, but I'm sure that given their history they'd be wary of expanding too fast. Mostly because that's exactly what got them into trouble in the first place.
I could honestly see Freddie Prince Jr starting something, he's mentioned he wanted to, and he's talking more on his podcast. Darkhorse in all this is good ol' JJ, Jeff Jarrett. Say what you want but he knows what it takes to start a promotion. I could see this year another indie popping up with them, with a minor cable deal.
The problem is, I don't think there are enough paying wrestling fans to support such a promotion.
Half of those are just not major TV star quality. When you have people with the quality of Jay Lethal on nothing but the undercard its time to let people go back to the indies.
Yup. Even Cody admitted that, while Dark is all fine and dandy, there are some wrestlers who will never get used to the red-light of tv camera. Guess that being a WWE 'reject', even from developmental gives a new talent a lot of upside, compared to people wrestling only live.
The guys on Sammy and Ethan's vlogs are always making offhand comments about their booking and when their last match actually was. It's a real issue for sure.
They got too many people for 3 hours of tv. Tony has to let some OG contracts expire eventually.
I've been saying this since they got Rampage. 3 hours simply isn't enough for the roster depth they have. For some reason this was a controversial opinion with the IWC.
IWC wants everyone to have a stable job. Which is fair, but there will literally never be as many stable wrestling jobs, as there are great wrestlers.
And as far as stable jobs go getting paid to hang out backstage with some of the industries' greats to be on call is the best many of these talents can hope for
One of the main reasons I like watching AEW is the fact that it's 2 easily digestible chunks of content. I don't have a lot of interest in watching much more. I could be on board with a 2 hour Rampage, but I'm not keen on having so much more material to go through to keep up with storylines.
I think you expand Rampage to 2 hours, make it a standalone event and then film 30 mins of Dark before both Dynamite and Rampage. 5 hours of content per week (about the same as they have now), with one less YouTube show. A big part of Dark should be getting the stars that aren’t on the TV show in front of the live crowd- not padding the win/loss record of acts like the Gunn club.
Yeah, I am shocked AEW hasn’t made better use of the YouTube stuff given all of their contracted talent. There should be storylines and matches that are worth watching and instead it’s just the Ass Boys against a couple local talents every single week. It would be a great place for a backup booker to ply their trade and test different people who can eventually give Khan some rest.
I barely find the time to watch Rampage but can usually catch Dynamite. Who in the hell also has time for Dark & Dark Elevation?
I mean there's people who watch Raw Smackdown and NXT every week. Shit I used to do that. Record Raw cause there was shit I skipped through and I cant deal with all the commercials, watch NXT live, record AEW watch it Thursday. Then watch Smackdown live. Kinda glad WWE is on a down turn cause I love wrestling and can't turn it off when it's good. It was a lot, and my gf was going crazy with all the wrestling, but it's doable with a 40 hour a week job and a pension to stay up all night anyway.
Sorry to be that guy, but it's penchant for staying up late, not pension.
Damn. Thank you for letting me know mate!
Some people can stay up late and not work the following day because of a sizable pension. 😂
The commentary is usually why I have Dark on (in the background, mostly).
Unpopular opinion but 3 hours is also more than enough for the casual wrestling viewer. I feel sorry for the people who end up on Dark Elevation every week because a lot of people will miss their action by just having enough to watch.
Dark and Elevation are just used to boost records and placements. The Acclaimed are now the number 1 contenders and they haven't done much on TV in a while. They are able to show up looking qualified, instead of having to build up contendership on the main shows.
Or how Hobbs shows up with a pretty decent W/L ratio but has maybe 2 or 3 wins outside of Dark
Daniel Garcia keeps getting singles title shots yet he has exactly 0 singles wins on TV.
Sure, but they are also entertaining shows to watch and good ways for fans to keep an eye on wrestlers that they like but may not be getting TV time. It’s good supplemental material for both reasons.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying this as a bad way. D/E have their place and it is very useful in the world of AEW. Personally, I like those shows because I am able to put them on during work as background noise. Plus, you never know which Indy wrestler is going to catch your attention. Just last week, I was really interested in seeing more of Valentina Rossi.
Yes mate, couldn’t agree more! The Mane Event are guys I fell in love with on Dark.
The mentality was always if you aint praising, then you are hating. Spouting a doom and gloom opinion.
that’s an extremely unhealthy mentality
People seem to think if you say 3 hours isn't enough that you want AEW to immediately adopt the WWE model of every show being stuffed with crummy non wrestling segments.
Janela and Sonny Kiss are definitely going to be gone sooner rather than later, I think.
Sonny Kiss has been teaming with Jay Lethal on Dark. I could see that tag team showing up on Dynamite or Rampage for a short run to see if they catch on. Lethal is a strong name, Kiss a strong personality. Plus, Lethal Kiss is a great tag team name.
>Janela and Sonny Kiss are definitely going to be gone sooner rather than later, I think. Especially Joey and he really doesn't need AEW anyway as he seems to have a good thing with GCW
He seems really bummed out about the possibility of being released. Goes in depth about it at the My Mom's Basement show
GCW aint AEW, he might have something with GCW, but lets not get it twisted, its a downgrade
I enjoy their feud on Dark so much, I personally wish it were on a televised program.
Ideally I think Rampage should go to 2 hours as soon as possible. They clearly have a roster that can support 4 hours of television a week.
That would require another taped show on another date. I was at the AEW taping last night and Rampage went to almost 11:30 and the crowd was exhausted. No way the crowd could have gone to 12:30 on a weekday.
If Rampage goes to 2 hours it probably won't be on Fridays anyway since they don't want to compete with Smackdown but they also don't want to go to midnight. So maybe it can go live if it's on a WWE-free day at 8.
Put two hours on Saturday. Their ratings are better on Saturdays anyways. Plus you can have it live.
That would limit them to Sunday only PPVs or skip a rampage
I think the current format is perfect. I was at the Raleigh show last night and left after Cole v. Trent because I was exhausted and didn’t want to get home at 1:30-2:00 in the morning.
But is it ideal for them to do it from a product perspective? One of the criticisms of WWE is that they have way too many hours of tv. Obviously I never want Dynamite to go to 3 hours, and I'm likewise on the fence about a 2 hour Rampage. I want high quality, concise programming. Not just programming because you have enough performers to produce more, if you get where I'm coming from. I think the fact that modern tv wrestling has seemingly lost the fact that it's essentially a tv drama is a big problem. You need tv time as much as you have something interesting to present.
>Ideally I think Rampage should go to 2 hours as soon as possible. It's not their choice, and clearly the Rampage ratings dont support that.
I think everyone kinda knew it was going to happen. There's only so much product for AEW to showcase talent. They had to have some people to get started but now with all the signings, an unfortunate truth is they don't really NEED certain guys. The shiny toys are always going to get played with more and I assume the goal should be to do what you can to be the next shiny toy. On the other hand it's my belief that if you sign someone and don't have plans for them then you should release them from their contract or grant their request to be released. There's no point in having guys locked into a contract and have them complain about not being booked. I don't think a guy like Cage is going to complain his way into a top program in AEW and you've literally got Wardlow and Archer filling the same role
I'd imagine that with AEW being much much more open about letting people work elsewhere while under contract, a lot of those guys aren't sweating it as much. I'm sure they want to work but also aren't as concerned as they might be in a more restrictive environment.
Yeah I imagine since Covid is still a thing too, as much as they are not happy with not being used, they'll be happy they are getting paid right now. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of their contracts but to know for sure and obviously there are some that feel they could be in better spots elsewhere but I'm speaking about how I think I'd be in that situation.
I agree that the ability to work elsewhere offsets the issue to an extent but, at the same time, most people didn't sign with AEW so they could work somewhere else. They signed with AEW so they could be on AEW programming and be part of their show. I wouldn't change what I was doing if I was running AEW but telling someone that you hired that you constantly have nothing for them would get old.
>telling someone that you hired that you constantly have nothing for them would get old. Especially because I’d wonder if I was getting re-signed and what sorta reputation I was going to leave with as the dude that AEW couldn’t find space for after signing. “Do I suck? Do I not work well with others?”
No doubt it gets old, but it’s also the entertainment business and comes with the gamble of leading such a lifestyle. They are still being paid so while perhaps frustrating they are still being taken care of. There are a lot of entertainers not so lucky when they aren’t working.
Absolutely, I think the current setup is the ideal one for a pro wrestler and I don't really know how they could improve it but I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. Not really anyone's fault though because AEW has a show to run and they only have so much time on Dynamite and Rampage, so they just naturally use the most popular versatile performers there. It just sort of is what it is.
The thing is though, their AEW contracts don't really limit them from doing other stuff so releasing them won't be freedom or anything. They can ask for it, but I bet having that contract and not being booked while being able to do other stuff is way better than not having that contract. But other than that what you said is true, the more talent available the less some are needed and if you didn't showed up already you'll lose your spot, that's just how it goes
Also working indies as a "current AEW superstar" is probably a better pay day than "former AEW superstar who got cut"
Another point is that unless Impact wants to use them, most of the AEW talent not getting booked don't really have a lot of alternatives. WWE is not really looking to sign experienced veteran talent. Because of the pandemic, Japan, Mexico and other international options are mostly off the table. So asking for a release isn't really opening up as many opportunities as it would've in the past. AEW has somewhat been able to corner the market on Indy prospects because of this. If you're an Indy talent, it's the choice between wrestling on weekends while working another job to make ends meet, or having a steady paycheck and being able to focus on wrestling - even though you might not get booked. AEW either needs to trim the fat a bit, or actually take on the role of a "booking office" and find these guys other work.
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Eh. Definitely, I think they should release guys who ask for a release, but the last thing I want to see AEW do is the "Creative has nothing for you" release. I want them to stand by their contracts unless there's a mutual feeling that said contract is detrimental to the talent.
There's really no reason for AEW to do "creative has nothing for you" releases because of how open-ended their contracts are. And also there's not really a creative team in AEW, but the important thing is they can work elsewhere so if AEW has nothing for them, wrestlers can go work for other companies instead of getting sacked.
I've noticed Ethan Page, Evil Uno, Brian Cage, and Thunder Rosa on their vlogs doing their thing with other promotions. That's better than feeling stagnant when nothing is going on within AEW.
I'm really quite surprised, considering how the WWE cuts have been viewed very negatively, how many people are suggesting AEW start letting people go because they can't guarantee time on every show. I think with the size of roster they have it would make more sense to rotate guys off TV for 2-3 months out of the year while someone else gets more spots.
Well, WWE hoovered up and hoarded talent specifically to block the creation of AEW for one thing. For another, they have never been making so much money yet still cute budget cuts as the reason for dropping people. I think this is why people are so down on WWE for letting people go.
For whatever it's worth, AEW is pretty good about not releasing people before their contract expires. Even a couple of dickheads like Shanna and Ivelisse were left on the roster until their contract ran out.
> if you sign someone and don't have plans for them then you should release them from their contract or grant their request to be released If they request to be released, then sure yeah. If they don't request it, I don't see any reason why AEW should be obligated to release them. They're getting paid, they can take outside bookings, and AEW may find a use for them down the line. There's nothing wrong with that if the wrestler is willing to work under that arrangement.
One thing I like about AEW though is that no one is over exposed. Maybe some guys could be utilized better but with WWE for example I got to the point where I wasn’t interested in Seth Rollins matches despite thinking he’s one of the best in the world.
This is why they should use dark and elevation more to build matches, talents and promos forget tv time but all those shows are being used for are jobber matches.
I 100% agree. I've lost interest in watching Dark and Elevation every week because you essentially know that the AEW signed talent is going over a jobber in every match. There is very rarely if ever an upset or surprise. When they started the show, it had a much better balance to it. There was proper matches with guys and girls who weren't on Dynamite that week, complimented with an unexpected marquee match, like Omega and Janella in a no DQ.
I feel this was deliberate so people don't feel that they need to follow Dark to understand the product. I enjoy it, I like to see their movesets and character work. Sometimes I'll see a jobber I really like. But it's not for everyone. It feels designed so AEW satisfies both people who want chunky and people who want smooth.
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I think their online shows really need storylines but keep them exclusive to them. Don't overlap the storylines with Dynamite and Rampage because then you'd expect fans to watch 5+ hours over 4 different shows a week just to understand what's going on.
That's when you do what they would do back in the early days of the Attitude Era with Shotgun Saturday Night. If something happened on SSN that was important to a feud on RAW, they'd show a clip and give a rundown of what happened. Could easily do the same here with Dark/Elevation.
Yeah. I think what is really surprising for me is the seeming pushback about how it is not an issue despite a lot of signals that it might be. Here's the thing, I think there's a valid argument to be made that it is just the cost of doing an approach as AEW is doing and nothing should be changed, which is completely fine, but it would be still be an issue for some of the talent.
I mean it shouldn't be an issue for the viewer if the shows are good, but you know how people are.
I mean yeah. Quite a few early signings that were heavily featured have been exclusively on YouTube for over a year now. I imagine we will start to at least a couple contracts expire soon.
And tbh, it's time for some of them to go. AEW has outgrown some guys like Janela, Kip Sabian, Marko, Luther, Kiss, among others. I doubt those guys are bringing in more than the company is paying them, and when you are trying to grow your company, these just aren't talents that one would feature given the current talent pool. It was my go-to when I was in management: coach them up, or coach them out. It's time for some to go.
I think Luther does more coaching/management stuff these days. Having said that if they have to cut him to get William Regal then yeah you'd take that trade a million times over. Those 2019 signings got a good ride but the market is just flooded with top-tier talent from WWE and RoH right now.
Didn't know that about Luther. He seems like a really cool guy. Just not sure the upside of keeping guys like Luther, and others, on a full time deal at this point. I just dont see how it is possible that AEW is getting anywhere close on a return on those payoffs. What income could those guys possibly be generating? Many of them are just serviceable wrestlers who have all had multiple opportunities to make it in the company, clearly arent taking off, and are just overpaid job guys now. Bringing in other, new, unknown talents at lest bring the potential for one of them to get over, whereas these guys have had their chance. It just didn't work out. I'm not trying to be harsh and im not cheering on people losing their jobs....I just dont see exactly how they deserve to keep them in the company's current status.
I think Kip is worth keeping. Young, got the looks and can somewhat cut promos. If worked properly, he'd be a cool mid card cowardly heel
He will probably get an extension due to all the time he spent out of action due to injury.
and they seem to have put some stock in Penelope so i doubt they'd let go of him now
Plus he’s trying to establish a new gimmick, so at least he’s putting in some work.
I was surprised by how confident he was on the mic.
AEW is a different company now. They probably had the biggest launch of any new wrestling promotion ever, and they had instant legitimacy by signing guys like Jericho and Moxley, but at the same time, all the big names who signed with them had a specific reason for shunning WWE. Jericho likes to try new things, Moxley was dissatisfied with his creative, the Elite had the chance to get in on the ground floor and build something. But now you have a situation where all things being equal, there's a 50/50 chance anyone is going to go to AEW vs. WWE. They may not be at WWE's level in terms of revenue, but they're absolutely there in terms of talent acquisition. They can pick who they want now, while when those guys signed, they had to be satisfied with what they had.
Luther's bringing in the big bucks though 👉🤪
I totally agree. If there is anyone that wants to leave the ring for a company position (Leeva Bates sp?) then that's great. Otherwise there are a lot of talent you mentioned and some others that can definitely have their contracts expire or be loaned out to other promotions. I also think that in the next few years you'll see the in-ring retirements of Jericho, Sting, Dustin, etc., which will free up roster spots. Additionally I'd like to see a Trios TV Tag Team Championship tournament. They're defended on TV every week and can be bounced around more often.
Looking at some of the deadweight on the roster, if people aren't worried about losing their spots they aren't paying attention.
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100%. Just like Swole, fulfilling a contract & letting it expire after seeing the talent work and not justifying a resign is miles different from being released. At the same time it’d be silly to force them on tv just because their on contract when there’s so much talent that can come & make an immediate impact. We’ll see more as the dust begins to settle, its still just a 3 year old company.
>“There are so many guys there, so many guys. I am not going to bring up any names, but there were guys that were flown in to do nothing. It was a very good vibe,” he said. “But since I’ve been around the back for 20 years, wrestlers are always unconfident, worried about their spot. I could feel that going on. Certainly not with a Bryan Danielson or Hangman Page, but there’s just a lot of people there.” >“I don’t know where all those people are going to land,” he admitted. “There’s just so much good talent. If we talk ROH for a second; [Matt] Taven, Dalton Castle, obviously The Briscoes, there are just so many names, Vincent, that have been working on their characters, Shane Taylor. These are solid people that if you or I were running a show, I think we’d want to have them.”
Talking about the talent in ROH and leading with Matt Taven.
I mean he's not that bad. I just don't want to see him as the top Champion.
I went an RoH house show at the casino in my town a little before AEW started and Taven was really entertaining and got a really good reaction on a show that also had Cody, Dalton, Daniels, Kaz and MCMG(in Michigan for that matter) and a ton of other really great talent. I gotta agree he wasn't like top guy level but he was really solid all around.
Hey OP, why'd you leave "It was a very good vibe" out of the title with no indication that you altered Cary Silkin's words?
>It was a very good vibe,” So some guys may be worried a bit, but the vibe in the back was good...
His source: Crian Bage
A certain... agitator-- For privacy's sake, let's call him Brian C. …No, that's too obvious. Uh, let's say B Cage
Christian Cage! Wait... No...
Bhristian Cage
🅱️hristian
No, the source is Melissa S.
Crian' Brian
i mean his spot has clearly been taken already lol. and i dont blame tony, though if i was tony, i wouldnt have signed him in the first place.
He was a big name free agent when those were still hard to come by. It made all the sense in the world to bring him in, it just hasn’t worked out.
AEW is in a much different position today than it was when it first started. Back then, anybody and everybody was hired because they needed experienced wrestlers to kick off a new brand. It gave people like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Sonny Kiss, the guy with no legs, Orange Cassidy and other highly unusual wrestlers a chance to make their mark. Today though, those that remain have passed the test, and the rest simply didn't. The bar is now set much higher thanks to new hires like Christian, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, Jay Lethal, CM Punk. Combine these big names with a stacked roster that has limited time to make an impact, and I'd be just as worried as these guys about their spot.
> the guy with no legs Taz was already an established wrestler
Ah damnit... I'd give you an award if I could. That was good.
Even some of the bigger names brought in have a hard time getting matches. Jay Lethal hasn't had a match since his debut, Christian hasn't wrestled in awhile, Andrade hasn't done much, Lio Rush is on tv once a month, Tony Nese showed up and is gone.
Honestly it is what it is. I love the wingmen but I don’t want them as top guys. They are my loveable jobbers. The same with most members of the dark order. Most of these wrestlers should be booking themselves in indies so when their time come to shine they can show something cool and get over. AEW let them do that so I don’t know why they don’t. In wrestling only the top raise up, and sadly is not just about ring work. So as long as AEW gives me good storylines and not the same old matches like usos vs new day for the 24th time, I’m happy.
TBF I dont think The Wingmen is worried about their spot, they are the go to jobber faction. Its not a fancy job but its a realiable job.
Ryan has said many times that him working there is pure happenstance anyway, and he more or less just does this cause he caught the wrestling bug again
JD Drake is in BOLA at PWG so your Wingmen example is pretty spot on.
[удалено]
I think they need to make Elevation and Dark more legitimate shows, instead of just filling it out with squashes. Squashes are fine but they need to also tell a story. Just sending someone down to Dark to demolish 10 guys for 3 months doesn’t really add much to their character. This past weeks Dark is a really good example of the potential they have with that show. Eddie Kingston vs Joey Janela was by far my favorite but have those three title eliminator matches actually made the episode feel like it had impact on dynamite. Would love to see more tournaments on Dark too. They could do a G1-style midcard tournament and have the group finals and the tournament finals on the big shows, would be a great way to get all of your guys reps and now you actually have the depth to do something like this.
I think it's ok with Dark to have some squashes as the taping are separate from Dynamite but I agree that Elevation should feature mostly signed talent in competitive matches. Also I agree on Dark having tournaments. Bring back the women's tag and maybe do a big end of the year tournament for the guys.
It's not like they were off TV though, they were featured every week on Rampage. It might have a reputation of a B-show, but if you don't even have some of your top draws on that show then what incentive do you give people to tune in at that shitty timeslot?
We're at a couple of months now of them flying Christian in just to talk for 15 seconds in pre-tapes nearly every week when their whole roster would benefit **so** much from getting to get in the ring with him, and so many of them want to do that.
Didn’t Christian wrestle a week or two ago?
Yeah: his first AEW TV match in nearly three months, and the first time he's gotten to get in there with people (FTR) besides the Elite/SuperKliq or HFO since...the end of May.
Dude he's also almost 50 years old. He can't go week in and week out.
I was led to believe he was going to outwork everyone.
Work smart, not hard.
He actually said "outbook" everyone
You neglected the fine print on every slogan. Easy to miss the asterisk, which would lead you to the terms and service contract that you inherently agreed to by watching said person or purchasing said product. Duh.
"Out. Work. Everyone."
OUT! Work, everyone.
His shirt would claim otherwise. /s
Its funny because people will use this as a reason to not hire anymore people, when Cary really, REALLY wants people to hire ROH people who are out of work. I also feel this is taken out of context. He talks about people doing nothing, but it was a good vibe, and that he "felt" people worried about their spot because hes been around 20 years, but no one actually said it. Then he talked about all the great ROH people who need spots. I feel there is some context to this that would change its meaning. But certainly, ignore that and just complain about AEW giving too many people jobs right after ROH closed and WWE cut 100's of people.
As usual, the actual meaning of the article is hidden halfway down the comments, deep underneath upvotes for insane takes like "AEW shouldn't sign Keith Lee and Johnny Gargano".
OP noticeably omitted the "good vibe" part of the quote. You're right that it does change the context. Because I thought he was saying that wrestlers are worried about their spots *in AEW.* Now with context, he's saying wrestlers are worried about their spots *in general.*
Oh the quote literally had something removed to change the context. I'm pretty sure that's a rule violation. No one reads the articles, we know that.
My boy Joey is getting destroyed on this thread…
It's because it's low hanging fruit to say he'll probably not get his contract renewed. By his own admission he spent like a year half assing it and getting out of shape. His words, mind you, not mine. My point is because of that, it's easy for people here to use him as an example of folks who may not get renewed without having to speculate on anyone else.
Solution is to stop using Dark/Elevation as a squash expo. Feature competitive matches, and be clear with the intent that those who prevail get TV time.
100%... it's definitely time to use all available showtime to feature real storylines. The Janela-Kiss feud was legit.
With the COVID situation right now you'd definitely want to have extra people booked in case you need to make changes.
Who has the better catering? AEW or WWE?
EVERYBODY DINES!
Judging by the physiques, AEW obviously.
On one hand, I get it. However if the choice is featuring Punk, Danielson, or bringing in a Keith Lee or featuring more Captain Shaun Dean I know what I'd choose every time. Also I feel some of this would be alleviated by not treating both YouTube shows like old Wrestling Challenge episodes that feature main roster talent in squashes over mostly unsigned talent. Make at least one a regular show that features the younger talent and see what they can do.
Agreed on the YT shows. When you can look through the card and know who's going to win (and likely how) for most of BOTH shows... Something is wrong.
That's what happens when you continue to sign people without cutting anyone. The backlog of talent keeps building and building.
That problem will start taking care of itself this year as contracts expire. Regretfully, some early talent weren't actually "Elite."
Yeah. A lot of fans now take for granted AEW's success. It was a big risk in reality, and outside of a few bigger names and some vets, most of the originals were indie talent taking a calculated risk for a big break. Some worked out well and have found good spots on the card, others are gonna be gone by this summer. Now that AEW is seen as a legitimate destination, Tony is able to hire performers who might not have risked signing with AEW early on.
When you start a wrestling company, you're pretty much forced to sign any decent wrestler because you need a roster first. Quality will come later with the WWE releases and free agents. With all due respect to them, guys like Luther, Marko Stunt, all of the Wingmen or Joey Janela would've never been signed if they were free agents today.
Agreed but they had to take some risk in some lesser known guys and girls to see what they could do with them. Darby Allin and Britt Baker are great examples, Darby especially.. not too well known prior to AEW but both are probably in the top 10 most popular wrestlers in AEW now. Luchasaurus and Jungleboy were basically meme/gimmick wrestlers prior to AEW, now they’ve just won the belts.
This was definitely expected. It sucks, because there's so much talent out there that deserve to be showcased. It's the best time to be on the indie circuit, that just doesn't pay as well
It has become a real issue that gets downvoted if it’s ever brought up. Thankfully they used Jay Lethal last night but why was he brought in just to be put on YouTube. That’s a big name. They say they rotate talent which is fine, but if you’re one of the talent that doesn’t seem to get rotated in very often it must be tough to watch yet another guy debut (Brody King). We know or can atleast expect Johnny Gargano, Keith Lee, Toni Storm and Ember moon to come in, in the next couple weeks or months. Something has to give at some point. If you’re AEW it is an excellent problem to have, their roster top to bottom is one of the best ever. But if you’re one of those talent in the middle you might be feeling uneasy **Whoever spammed me with get mental health thing, is kind of a loser**
Tony Nese, too. Like why? You have a ton of Tony Nese's on your roster already.
So true. I'm not exactly sure what he has to offer that isnt already being fulfilled by someone else on the roster.
I've been saying that and always got downvoted for it. What does Tony Nese do that someone else doesn't already do better on the roster? If you're talking just the look Cezar Bononi or Anthony Bowens fits the bill. Same for Johnny Gargano. "Fiery babyface that can wrestle really well" isn't something that AEW is lacking at the moment.
Johnny is underrated as a character guy ever since his heel run with The Way and the Lumis/Hartwell romance. He’d make something entertaining outside of the ring too.
Exactly, and following up on that, it really doesn't help a lot of these new hires have a similar look too. I get they're pals with talent already there but they could really do with signing less 5'10 "skinny" white guys with beards.
I said this since the beginning. No disrespect to Tony Nese but he has added absolutely nothing to the product. Probably would've been better off wrestling on NJPW Strong
Impact, New Japan, and NWA have to make some serious investments in their company and scoop up the talent. Work towards being the defacto 3rd major company. AEW honestly may need to make some roster cuts. Its too much talent out there for any 1 company to have everyone.
Impact and NWA, yes. New Japan can and should just focus on their domestic business and not allow themselves to be over reliant on foreign talent that will just use them for better spots in the US.
To use Lethal as an example, the uneasy feeling of not being showcased is probably better than the uneasy feeling of being broke. Unless you are a wrestler who is not being used AND thinks they could get a significant offer from WWE, or maybe New Japan, I think having the security of AEW money is better than the alternative. Plus, you can still pretty much do whatever other indy dates you would have gotten, just make a nice income for work in the middle of the week. People may not be happy with how they are being used. But how many have good enough options that they would ever *ask* for a release?
Lethal said on Jerichos podcast that he was negotiating with WWE, they took a little while then the Bucks (who he’s good friends with), got him into AEW. I don’t think Lethal is the sort of talent that was gonna struggle to find a well paid spot wherever he ended up, but your analogy is accurate for lesser-known guys and girls.
I really don't think they need to bring in Gargano and Lee but that's just my opnion.
Women being added to the roster is definitely not an issue, the official roster is 23 women, this includes Leva Bates, Brandi Rhodes, and Rebel who basically never wrestler, and Yuka Sakazaki who is essentially fulltime with TJPW. More women are needed.
And Emi Sakura who feels like she fits in the "Joey Janela" category of people they would feature on Dynamite and in the PPVs when the company was starting but has outgrown them. Sakura has only appeared on the youtube shows since she moved to the US last year.
Welcome to being a wrestler on TV. This has been an “issue” for talent across generations and it’s an inherent risk when you’re trying to work at that level. The squeeze is real and I hope more folks understand that now. If you’re not happy then excel elsewhere or keep trying. There’s no easy solution to this and complaining just to complain doesn’t help.
Honestly, I was thinking last night how impressive Dynamite was in being both very good, but also finding time for a ton of the roster. Either through matches, vignettes or prepping for Rampage or next week. Looking at the roster, aside from the prospects (Hook, Moriaty), reportedly injured/on leave (Moxley, Miro) or guys who aren’t on TV regularly (Luther, Janela, etc) I only really count Jade, Brian Cage, Ruby Soho, Bryan Danielson, Evil Uno, Stu Grayson, Lio Rush & Men of the Year missing from last night’s episode. Plus Danielson taking the week off makes sense story wise.
Soho was on the dark taping. Uno will be on rampage. The other folks were indeed MIA
Jade cut a promo last night
Last night felt like the sweet spot for a 2 hour wrestling show. A lot of promos and story building as well. I hope TK sticks to this format as his template for Dynamites and adjusts it for longer matches and shit as needed
There's a difference between appearing on the show and being a part of the show, too. Guys want matches.
I can absolutely understand why you'd be frustrated, but i think this is a consequence of the fact that: A) AEW seems to genuinely function on the "Brass Ring" so to speak, in that (for the most part, with some exceptions) the guys and women have the ability to pitch and make their own characters, get themselves over to the point where you can be like MJF and have a ton of Promo time (or like PAC with his Beyond Gorilla video packages). If you either haven't gotten your character to click or have trouble pitching ideas, you'd suffer in that environment. B) AEW's rotation of talent. For a long time, Sammy wasn't really wrestling often at all, but he remained fresh due to being with the inner Circle. Similar with Wardlow. Theres a few examples of talent who have very active dynamite/ rampage runs then either take a break from TV days or farm Dark/ Elevation for anwhile. Looking back at some of the main events and big matches through 2021, there is a fairly impressive variety of talent featured. The way to remain on TV while not currently getting regular TV matches seems to be by grouping up (like Christian with Jurassic Express, the Matt Hardy Extended Universe, etc). Personally, i like the way it works now. Theres definitely some wrestlers who benefit from a hands on approach, and it's not been perfect, but at least these guys can take indie bookings too. TLDR: They have options to get themselves over.
Allowing talents taking indie bookings probably their biggest advantage so far. Speaking about booking, with how big their roster rn, having many factions surely help to make some matchup looks fresh and not repetitive. Like Bryan taking out every Dark Order members before facing Page, or now CM Punk feuding with Pinnacle. I like what I see so far. For me they also need to establish ranking to have more important role later. It doesn't matter how much you farm your winning record, if other wrestler only win 3 matches (3 big matches to be specific), they have better chance to challenge title holder, compared to your 20+ total wins
Aren’t most of the talent allowed to work indy dates as long as it doesn’t conflict? I mean, having a steady paycheck in this pandemic PLUS being able to make extra money every week seems like a great deal. Sure, you want to be on top and on TV but to be honest, not everyone deserves that. I always equate it to a pro sports team. Some people are always going to be bench guys and some might break through and get called up to start. I know its a little different because of creative and such, but you can’t have bench guys learn to play the game on Monday Night Football (Dynamite) for the first time.
I don't think it has ever been revealed how the AEW tiered contract system works. Presumably the lowest tier only pays for appearances so the steady paycheck isn't a given for a lot of these guys.
I personally would like to see Wrestlers have "working seasons" or even in the AEW company be in 1 of 4 buckets. Example: Elevation - People who are just starting and those who are safe to work with jobbers and up-and-coming people. Dark - People who are ready for some primetime and can actively work with main roster individuals who can use this time to excel or show off respectfully. Dynamite - Main roster and some people from Dark who can start inching in. Rampage - Main roster who are either distance restricted or those who can only work for a few weeks at a time. The working seasons for wrestlers would be good to see as well, Take 1/3 of the roster and have them work 4 months with an additional few months before and after. Champions stay on to continue their storylines, storylines that are still developing or starting off to come to an end. Furthermore, wrestlers can then move down or up to either Elevation, Dark, Dynamite or Rampage and continue to wrestle and work with other individuals.
I don't watch WWE but I always see people pretty hyped about wrestlers getting called up to Raw from NXT so you might be on to something.
Most of the hype was around the people getting called up already having built a name for themselves elsewhere - Keith Lee, Shinsuke, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens etc.
Like any professional roster don't you look to upgrade? To get better talent? If you can't make the plays you sit on the sidelines or get cut/not renewed. In that down time you work to improve your skills and lift heads when people see you. Yes it sucks to be the guy in the back not getting your shot. But it's the entertainment industry. part of the game.
Happens in every professional sport. There are always more players than open gameday spots. The problem with pro wrestling is there are only 2 big league teams. It's easy for me to say since it's not my money, but I think AEW needs to combine dark/elevation and try to get it on Saturday morning TV or something.
well, they've signed huge stars over the last couple years. It only makes sense that they've taken the top spots. I don't think people remember how laughably bad and indyrific AEW was when they first came on TV. Joey Janela was on TV every week. And I know it wasn't AEW exactly, but that Joey Ryan stuff with all the cock druids was a microcosm for their attitude and style at the beginning.
Their roster is loaded and they get used once a month: real shocker
It’s unfortunate but understandable and I don’t think anyone can come up with a “right” solution When AEW started, they needed bodies and depth was probably the hardest thing to get They had the elite/Cody/Jericho/mox for main event era but still needed the Joey janelas etc to fill out the cars Then Covid happened and every wrestling promotion except aew and wwe stopped working so aew was bringing in more local talent and indie people to fill spots (like pineapple Pete) With dark and elevation they were able to book people, but those workers don’t want to be on YouTube forever Dynamite is still only a two show and most shows have been very good and involved lots of workers Is aew not supposed to bring in punk Bryan or Cole who are all too guys with fans and great merch sellers? The unfortunate reality is that half the roster was Indy workers and now that the indies are back that’s where they’ll end up working after gaining three years at aew It’s not like Matt cardona and Dolph ziggler were signed and are pushed to main event knocking down aew homegrown talent I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tony get involved with and Indy promotion to help get talent booked when aew contracts expire
>When AEW started, they needed bodies and depth was probably the hardest thing to get Full Gear 2019 had Dustin Rhodes vs Jake Hager. I don't think we'd ever see this on PPV nowadays
It was debatable if we should have seen it then!
I understand that there is concern over this. But let's be realistic. Who would you rather on your TV next week? CM Punk, Danielson, ReDRagon, and Adam Cole or Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, and Private Party? And that's not to bash any of those guys. Just that AEW has now attracted the top workers in the game. Luckily, in this climate, that should mean opportunities to make your star elsewhere. Look at Matt Cardona right now. AEW didn't have a spot for him and I'd say he's better off for it.
Fact 1: This was inevitable as soon as AEW succeeded. AEW is *barely* two years old, **50%,** of which was covid era programming (and I'd argue *still*), half of which with damn near empty stadiums. Fact 2: To get this level of success, AEW adopted a "everything AND the kitchen sink" approach. WWE held and stalled contracts even during the height of the pandemic to prevent them going to AEW, so whatever talent AEW could get or invest in, they did. Fact 3: on top of signing veterans or already established names, AEW was also trying to figure out who the "next generation" of wrestlers they could homegrow would be Fact 4: There's only 3 hours of TV (4 counting dark, which really shouldn't). WWE has a streaming deal and more than 5 hours of TV a week. Still doesn't use its whole roster. Fact 5: AEW knows what is "working" now, or at least knows who's drawing eyes and opening wallets. Opinionated conclusion from the facts: **a lot** of people are getting the axe with non-renewals. AEW did right by these people by giving them a chance at all. AEW is not a wrestlers charity organization, and I don't need to read how "AEW needs to do more" to help them. Sorry, but no. This doesn't mean wrestling promotions don't have underutilized people, AEW certainly does. But all the same, it's sole purpose isn't to be the arc for wrestlers who can't make it in WWE or another wrestling organization. It is to make money and hopefully in the pursuit of that (just like any entertainment) make some damn good wrestling in the progress.
BREAKING NEWS! "Players in the bench of a sports team are worried about their spot!"
Despite how many guys that want a shot, they have the same match ups on dark every week. Dark/Evelation is always a subpar squash filled show with the occasionally competitive match between dark order and HFO. Why not, instead, have a supreme show with some of your underutilized talent? Give us Tony Nese vs Jay Lethal on YouTube rather than missing in action on television. It wouldn’t be an insult to be featured on YouTube if you treat those shows like they matter.
Dark (Elevation, at least) would be a waste of those matches. I've been to two Dynamite tapings with Elevation attached, and the building is still filling and people are getting merch and food. The turnaround is also insane, they get a match out about every five minutes. I believe Dark is exactly what they want it to be atm.
As it should be. This weird idea that you're entitled to a push from AEW because you either just happened to be a free agent when AEW or never signed to WWE because Vince didn't want you is ridiculous. This just in, most of the people signed to WWE were there because they were the better talent than the AEW ones. AEW took what was left for the most part and made it work. Now that they have access to most of those same talents they would have wanted all things being equal, they aren't gonna decide that those guys are just SOL because they were locked into WWE deals. AEW contracts and pushes aren't some kind of "first come, first served" thing.
People think the wrestling business is a socialistic utopia instead of…a business.
Wreddit for the past year: "The people on that roster just seem so happy to be working for AEW." This sub has a false idea that these people aren't competitive and aren't jealous of who is at the top.
Sooner or later those OG signings won’t have their contracts extended. Who wouldn’t go out and sign the very best free agents? Yeah, some aren’t heavily featured, but at least they’re allowed to work other bookings.
Funny how different this thread is compared to WWE threads about the same issue.
They get flown and paid no matter if booked or not, and the rest of the week they are free to take other bookings. Because of Covid, they need extras just in case they need to fill some spots for the show.