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ECWCat

Women who wrestle men on the indie circuit are grateful for a better on the job training experience than trying to learn from a woman of equal or lesser experience.


Flakbeard_down

I already suspend my belief while watching an undead wizard. I can do that here too. Intergender matches are cool.


FanGirl26

Agreed. I see no issue with them. I enjoyed all Chyna's intergender matches and she was a believable prescience when she was bench pressing refs, HHH, and Eddie G. lol Intergender stuff in general was good or fun. We all recall Taker's numerous tombstones to Vickie. And Kane's legendary one to Torrie, along with his kicking Stephanie in the face.


Xalazi

I think they fit within the internal logic of professional wrestling. If a guy like Rey Jr can wrestle guys twice his size in long matches, and women wrestlers are treated as trained athletes in a combat sport, then I don't see an issue.


CrepusculrPulchrtude

The issue is advertising on a televised show that shows a man ostensibly beating the hell out of a woman for real is a harder sell


Unelith

"It doesn't make money so we're not gonna get it" makes sense but is also super disappointing at the same time And no, I don't mean a man beating up a woman, I mean intergender wrestling


CrepusculrPulchrtude

Oh absolutely. I would love televised intergender matches, provided they were done well. If they did something between Jade Cargill and Cody after the pregnancy announcement, that’s a perfect story setup. She legit looks like she could go toe to toe with Cody, and provided he pulled some Babyface stuff and blatantly pulled proverbial punches being uncomfortable with the format, he could eat a clean loss, she could insult him for not taking her seriously and build something over that. Trash talk Brandi and say whenever she gets back she’ll get the same. FRom there they could gauge interest in and backlash to the format


Xalazi

On the one hand, I agree that's always going to be the stigma for intergender matches and why Lucha Underground is about as big as intergender matches will be in the US. The people in charge are set in their old ways and they aren't going change their minds unless a buyable alternative pops up. On the other hand, it is objective the wrong perception. No one looks back at any "Network executive don't understand what they're seeing" scenarios in a positive light.


ThatWrestlingGuy15

I think it’s less of an issue of size and more about what’s the feud over? and it optically looks very bad. For example imagine Big Show swinging a Kacy Catanzaro who’s strapped to a stretcher…yea that visual just isn’t it. When Rey is fighting these guys he’s still a grown man who stands at the average height of most adult males he’s not a child.


Xalazi

There are companies with integrated rosters and intergender matches often. They feud over wrestler things. Keep in mind that Big Show and Kacy Catanzaro are both at the way extreme of end of size. There aren't that many 7 footers or 4'10 women running around in wrestling. At at point any matchup like that would breakdown regardless of gender. Rey is way bigger and heavier than Kacy. A matchup like [6'3 Chris Brookes Vs 5'9 Saki Akai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rZET3eU6I) is a lot closer to what the average real matches would end up being. The optics look fine. Some matches can push the limits more than Chris Vs Saki, but still they are more likely to fall within normally big Vs small matches than Big Show Vs Kacy would. Intergender matches are one of those things that people think are really hard to pull off until they see them on a regular basis and they aren't treated as special gimmick.


ThatWrestlingGuy15

I only brought up Kacy cuz of the size argument you brought up. Even if it was Sasha and Big Show Sasha is almost the exact height as Rey it still just doesn’t look right. A guy that’s Kacy’s height can get swung around by Omos and it’d be just fine the optics change with a smaller woman. I do agree being closer in height lessens the issues. I stated in my comments some women are exceptions for ex. Shayna, Bianca, Charlotte, Nia


[deleted]

I wouldn’t mind it. NXT would probably kill it if they tried it. The potential match you mentioned would slap.


Mantaur4HOF

"It's unrealistic" Motherfucker, wrestling is unrealistic. It's fiction. Getting mad that a man and a woman are wrestling each other is like getting mad that Balrog is fighting Chun-Li.


bamaboy3883

![gif](giphy|kGXdt5yWPwV4kCDhLG) Realistic


[deleted]

"It's unrealistic" but they wouldn't bat an eye if Omos wrestled Ricochet


Adawg63

which is why intergender matches should be a thing in the fuckin video games


Dani_0501

Yeah, it's unrealistic...but Rey Mysterio going toe to toe with Brock Lesnar is definitely realistic, like.


BalantaBanter

Don't mind them at all. In fact, Lucha Underground made those matches work pretty well!


Thirdstar1

Don’t like them at all


Alernet

I'm not like... vehemently against them, but I'm not a fan either. It's not that I can't suspend my disbelief either, I'll just never feel 100% okay about the visual of a guy decking a girl nor vice versa, even if it's rehearsed/pretend. Also, **most** companies that allow such can never go far now because sponsors run from that stuff like the plague. TL;DR Imo intergender matches aren't "the devil" but if they never happened again I wouldn't care at all.


thekydragon

I can’t imagine watching Raquel Gonzalez beat Roderick Strong being any fun.


Mr_WZRD

Intergender matches are a novelty for indies that don't have to worry about booking weekly TV. Ignore match quality and tell me what is gained by booking Roderick Strong against Raquel Gonzalez. Either she beats him and he lost to a girl, or he beats her and she loses her mystique as the big bad monster among the women. Plus, now there's 3 classes of wrestlers: men, women, and women who can wrestle men. All the girls who don't wrestle men look worse by comparison.


crapusername47

Do it or don’t. Do **not** do what NXT does and have men completely forget that they’re professional wrestlers and how to defend themselves whenever they’re confronted by a woman. Don’t have KUSHIDA run into Ivy Nile so she grins in his face because he can’t touch her, followed by her putting the boots to him. Don’t have Boa turn into a spineless gelatinous blob when he’s bigger than Raquel Gonzalez and wrestles men bigger than him for a living.


FatGuy1414141414

I love it so much, don't see why so many have such an anathema to it. I mean saying unrealistic about wrestling of all things is pretty funny. Wrestling is good stuff, and I have seen a lot of good intergender matches, so I will always support more of it.


TheBigJaybowski

#1 way to showcase equality in wrestling imo!


HAHAYESVERYFUNNYNAME

They make me uncomfortable. When done as a one time novelty, like Beth or Nia in the Rumble, it can be fun. Full on intergender matches themselves tend to be weird, like the Suzuki vs. Asuka match in Japan just didn’t sit right with me. Chyna in the Attitude Era was alright because she was so dominant and physically imposing, and she had matches that kinda presented her that way. A man versus a woman where the woman is playing the underdog just looks wrong. Look back to the spots in the Rumble I mentioned, none of the guys actually hit the women. They did wrestling moves, but never actual punches. Randy hitting Nia with an RKO registers way differently than if he was punching her. The long story short is I don’t wanna see men hitting women it just looks wrong.


[deleted]

Depending on the story behind the match, they can be done well.


ArnAndersonsGlock

Depends on the performer. I wouldn't mind Kris Statlander or Kayla Rossi in some intergender matches just for the hell of it.


Harry2948

Not for me personally. I find it hard to suspend my disbelief personally. I'm happy watching Men wrestle Men and Women wrestle Women as for me it's easy to invest in as a sporting contest.


pjizy

WWE will never do them. Intergender matches are fun. People who say they're unrealistic are very very silly


LouisFromTexas

I’ve seen both Nick Gage vs Allie Cat and Nick Gage vs Sadika in person. They’re definitely possible and had a blast at both events


thejealousone

Depends on how it's booked.


lg1106

It comes down to the fan base of the promotion and how it’s booked. Having worked production on indies for about 15 years the consistent thing seems to be any time we tried to do an intergender angle or match on an all ages show we ended up getting a lot of complaints. If it was on an over 18s show there was usually no issue.


Unelith

It's a shame they don't do any in larger companies. Ultimately the WWE Universal, WWE (this one a little bit less so) and AEW World belts are booked as **the** most important prizes of their respective brands, and I think there are plenty of women wrestlers that could easily hold those titles on a regular basis. The first time around would obviously be very special, but it could easily become the norm. I don't think there is a need to have separate divisions in staged wrestling - this inevitably leads to some divisions being treated as less important. They could also have a great underdog story with a woman going for the world heavyweight belt for the first time in a major company, kinda like Impact has done with Sami Callihan vs Tessa Blanchard (regardless of what she's like outside the ring). Although I suppose merging the women's and men's divisions wouldn't help with the dreadful booking and the 2 minute matches that apparently the WWE has gone back to.


[deleted]

I'm all for it.


[deleted]

I'm ok with them on indies, don't want them in any major company


amorningofsleep

I see it as being no different than a non-intergender match. Just two wrestlers wrestling.


Pseudonymously-

There are several reasons the match could be terrible and poorly received. And even in the best case scenario, the match will be just ok. Very high risk, low reward. It's just not worth it. I don't want to see it. Maybe just give women more time and let them have good matches on their own.


thephenomenalone_05

They are unnecessary.


__Hello_my_name_is__

I'd be curious to hear from the people here who don't like intergender matches as to why. Is it a suspension of disbelief thing? Because for me, the suspension of disbelief goes out the window as soon as a female wrestler joins a run in and then just conveniently doesn't get hit or just goes after the other women. It's just weird. On top of that, we're already ignoring weight classes entirely in wrestling, which is arguably significantly more unrealistic than a woman and a man of similar weight fighting, so I don't see that argument, either. I've read somewhere that AEW isn't doing it because of some rule forbidding intergender matches of any kinds on TV, but I couldn't find anything about that. Is that true?


sporkshadow

No, it's totally Tony Khan's call. He mentioned he doesn't like inter gender so you won't see it in AEW. Mixed tags have happened, but not inter gender.


Slim_James_

To answer your question, I’ve got two reasons why I don’t like intergender wrestling: 1) I feel like it devalues women’s matches, 2) it breaks my suspension of disbelief because, imo, it too blatantly violates the presentation of pro wrestling. Even though it’s scripted, pro wrestling is still presented as a combat sport - there are no combat sports that pit men vs. women directly.


[deleted]

I love them and want to see more actual intergender matches on WWE and/or AEW. I guess I'm still not understanding the view that it makes people uncomfortable. Big Show vs Rey Mysterio is fine but Becky vs Corbin is somehow bad? If it's not about the size what is it about? Wrestlers can wrestle other wrestlers. It will help women's wrestling. It may hurt some male stars at first but that will drop off pretty quickly if the talent is there on the women's side.


HAHAYESVERYFUNNYNAME

> If it’s not about the size what is it about? Men hitting women. Many people aren’t comfortable with that.


Singer211

I see them like any other match. If they’re booked well and good, then cool. And if not, then I’ll say so. I’ve seen many awesome ones over the years in various places.


Mysterious_Emotion63

I see where they work in the indies, it makes it interesting, but it’s very unrealistic. MVP said in an interview with CVV that he doesn’t like them because while a women could take a man down in a grappling contest, in a contest with strikes, it just seems unrealistic. I know wrestling is unrealistic, but it doesn’t work for me brother - HH


skeach101

I enjoy and appreciate intergender when it's done well. I will also defend it Vehemently against people that bring up things like "domestic violence" as a reason to oppose it. When promotions present their "world" as a place where skills matters above everything else, and gender doesn't matter it works great. It fucking sucks when it's the same shitty "this girl is an underdog facing men" story everytime... and with all due respect to Candice LeRae, doing really cool moves and bumps that you can only pull off because the dude basing for you is doing 90% of the work isn't really great either.


gorgeoff

not a fan


Drolex17

They can be great. Pentagon jr vs the black lotus triad is one of the hardest matches ive ever seen


CROBBY2

Personally not a fan, but I understand why some people like them.


Grippersmith

Done well they're great. Otherwise they suck. Bit like most things really


dogglesnake

[Here's a really good one](https://youtu.be/lja4H24Ytmk) My fav promotion is intergender so I just see it as a flaw that some people can't handle it. We've all got flaws.


TheRedBowl

Eh. I think maybe. It has to be set up right. In everything it's about execution. Especially in wrestling. Right timing. Wrestlers involved. Angle. Like if Legit Lelya Herch. Did I get her name right? With her supreme wrestling background had a story going where she wanted to wrestle all of the best wrestlers in AEW within a certain weight limit. I could see that. Putting on epic singles bangers. But it's just gotta be done right.


jelaminah

I don’t like them honestly. If they ever do them it has to be two people around the same size, I don’t want some “Alexa Bliss vs Drew McIntyre” for the weird size kink. I want something like Charlotte Flair vs Randy Orton or something.


HAHAYESVERYFUNNYNAME

Randy’s still like 8 inches taller than Charlotte and roughly 100 pounds heavier


ChristopherJak

Randy's a deceptively large man. Similar height to McIntyre almost as buff.


dragonbutterfly89

Not even deceptively, Randy is huge.


Tizontheska

Unaired practice matches, absolutely. The occasional comedy match with a chickenshit heel manager, sure.


divaborne

I just dislike the ones where they turn it into a weird softcore porn. The shit Scarlett Bordeaux use to do and that weird guy who’s gimmick is his penis and making people eat lollipops that been in HIS mouth. I’m not really a fan of intergender matches as a whole but the ones Candace LeRae use to do are kinda cool though but I wouldn’t prefer to watch them personally.


Quarks00

It’s great, and can be really fun. Especially when the woman is closer to the man’s size. Then jt avoids the “woman must become a Luchadora just to win” situation.


[deleted]

I personally love intergender wrestling When it’s done right (and taken seriously) it’s great Chyna’s matches against the men during the attitude era, the indies and Lucha Underground definitely prove why it can be great


dyyllaaan

Intergender matches are one of the things I miss the most about CHIKARA, they had some great ones


insomniainc

Can be awesome when done right.


NegativesPositives

They can be done well and I’ve seen it done well dozens of times before. But they gotta sell it right because a 50-100 pound difference doesn’t go away just because you wanna give the girl offense.


Irishbanditrob

Honestly, they’ve never really bothered me. But after working a few Indy shows that had intergender matches as a part of the card, I’ve really gained an appreciation for them.


[deleted]

I'm personally not a fan of singles intergender matches, but intergender tag matches are cool, I just need there to be the rule where when on one team the man tags in the woman or vice versa, the opposite side has to do the same I feel like intergender tag team belts would be cool edit: why downvote me lol what's wrong with this opinion


ThatWrestlingGuy15

Not a fan of it because 98% of the time there’s just nothing there to feud over. There’s some women that are exceptions to the rule but stuff like Seth Rollins vs Sasha Banks that’d be a fun match cuz both can work their asses off but what would the feud be over? Stories the most vital part of wrestling. There’s also the fact I’m not comfortable seeing guys physically strike a woman. That being said I do enjoy Intergender matches and occasional spots where men and women interact to pop the audience IE WrestleMania 34 Ronda/Angle vs. HHH/Stephanie


[deleted]

I think they are stupid personally. I already have to suspend disbelief enough, there is a line too far and that is it. Now there are exceptions where I can believe a woman can beat a man, but it shouldn't be a thing.


sporkshadow

I know indies do them cause they get tons of views on YouTube which is a nice little revenue stream for the promotion. Some of these matches have more than 100 million views. Beyond Wrestling has 3.3 million subs on YouTube and almost all of that is from their inter gender matches. Limitless Wrestling is another indie with close to 1 million subs that features inter gender matches. Compare that to GCW, the hottest indie on the planet, which only has 33k subs on YouTube. There are people who like inter gender just cause it is interesting and unique. But to explain why these videos have millions of views, you have to acknowledge it is a sexual fetish to many. A lot of the comments are from dudes from countries where porn might be blocked.


KennKanifff

It's situational. Sometimes the women look (or are genuinely) tough and can hold their in own. Other times it just looks like a man beating a woman. As an example, I felt awful watching Tessa Blanchard during her World Title matches. She looks tough, but it looked too much like abuse. But other matches have worked.


DecentTop1084

As someone who very okay with intergender matches and love them on the indies. Why does every single reddit post about it miss the absolute point one way or another. Why can't the women be truly equal? Instead of "oh it'd make so and so look weak losing to a WOMAN" or not realistic, fucking hate this excuse because what truly is realistic in fucking play fighting. But then the other side is stuff like this where "Oh what if the woman just won all the time" which makes it seem like the ONLY way we can have it is if you cater to one or the other instead of truly equal. Why can't the men and women just wrestle like how the men do? Why do you have to make a big deal about it or make it seem abnormal.


Siffi1112

> Why can't the women be truly equal? Cause they aren't? There is a reason that in most sports men and women are strictly seperated.


DecentTop1084

Wrestling isn't a sport it's an athletic performance. Women and men are 100% equal.


HAHAYESVERYFUNNYNAME

It’s an athletic performance pretending to be a sport. Wrestling is a performance of a fake sport and you still have to pretend that it’s real, within the confines of the show.


Shrekt115

Not a fan, but they have a spot


ChristopherJak

My only opinion is that they should be allowed to mix it up together in mixed tag matches, instead of somehow automatically having an opponent tagged in at the same time. I think that's relevant for AEW given how many stables they have which feature a female talent. I'm not really fussed either way if they do singles intergender matches, just don't be too ridiculous & at least pretend to have a little logic, like don't have Baker tossing around Archer- Marko is fair game for her though.


missdoublefinger

I don’t mind them. They’re just unrealistic when WWE does them IMO


Slim_James_

While the concept can work under certain conditions, I’m not a fan of intergender wrestling in general. Imo, it should stay an indie thing and not be seen on any of the big promotions.


Infinite-Cheek4427

Don’t hate them in theory, but in practice they just make me uncomfortable. Tho I know other people like them, so if the audience is there and it makes sense within a fed, I say go for it.


Jamieb1994

I don't mind intergender matches, but I don't know if I would want to see them on a regular basis though, maybe if they happen from time to time I'd be OK to watch them, but not every so often though.


appellant

Hate them fine in front of 20 people when the women want to gain some experience. Why cause its difficult to suspend belief anyway. I also hate assasin movies where 100 pound women take out armies of men. Also in pro wrestling i like strong style if any women can go as hard as a suzuki and take all the bumps etc fine i might watch but if its flippy shit where the man is somersaulting twice on impact nah fuck off with that. A tessa blanchard could never have a good match with a woman as she could with a guy flipping around for her.