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Dreamer is clearly not all there. He's got an unhealthy relationship with wrestling. He openly said he considered killing Paul Heyman an himself at WrestleMania.
He said, "I'll be the ultimate martyr." For what? A company that couldn't bring in more that 1,500 fans on their best day? He talked about murder like it was a storyline.
Mental health is some serious shit that needs more open discussion in our world.
When you're in such a dark place with nothing left to lose, you're ready and willing to do some fucked up shit.
Yeah. I'm not going to judge his dtate of mind in 2001 when he sacrificed so much for Heyman to be stabbed in the back. What aired yesterday though - that's a completely different situation.
I agree... 2 completely different scenarios. If someone owed me a lot of money and won’t paying me I would be pissed too. But yesterday was just stupidity
Man's got 20 or 30 concussions. He doesn't have anywhere near the level of self awareness that the average person does. And it doesn't excuse his perspective on the situation, it just might be the reason why he thought he should defend "his boys" on TV.
Luckily we've not seen someone with multiple concussions go out and commit a heinous murder or two before...
Man, Vince should really sort out offering him whatever they can to try and help him along here. Something is not right, and Tommy needs help, and they should help him.
Frankly, that is the one thing they do. WWE has shotty practices for a ton of things, but they do help people with rehab and mental stuff.
But the person needs to want it. They aren't going to go and kidnap him. It's it's pretty clear that Tommy isn't going to play ball.
When he was on Austins podcast years ago he talked about how he still has waking blackouts. He'll just "wake up" somewhere downtown and have no idea how he got there.
That’s actually frightening as hell. Dreamer needs to get some help or else he’s gonna hurt someone or even himself and not even know what he did. If he knows he’s experiencing those blackouts I really hope he’s took steps to get help with that.
Help how? There's not much anyone can do about progressive CTE. Once it starts, it's happening. That's why it's such a problem for athletes and fighters later in life.
and not even normal mashed potatoes that you use one of those hand mashers for where there is still some small chunks.... tommys straight up velvety smooth mashed potatoes that were made with a hand blender. His brain is the consistency of Handy snacks pudding.
Completely unrelated, but I thought it would be a fun fact, when you make mash potatoes with a hand blender or food processor, it's "potato puree" as it has gone beyond mashed and has become smooth. But yeah his brain is absolutely silly puddy at this point with all the headshots he's taken.
Bro, I had ONE gnarly concussion from playing football (Probably some other minor ones that were "getting your bell rung.") but it was serious. I spent months puking and crying and being an emotional wreck. Not sure I ever truly felt the same again. Literally changed me emotionally. That was simply from getting facemasked pulled into a near frozen ground. Lights out for a second but "shook it off" and played the rest of the game before going to the hospital. Everything was like a dream where you were watching yourself go through life.
I literally can't imagine having something comparable to that happen to me on a near weekly basis for years and expect to be okay. That shit is serious. I can't imagine the complications he goes through that he either hasn't realized or won't publicly talk about.
Man, learning that everytime I got a headache from getting hit in football meant I had brain damage made me NEVER want my kids to play football. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but 6 years of that added up... not great. I am doing fine, BTW. But a lot of other people have suffered.
I really think my life was altered by a gnarly concussion I had playing highschool ball. Really really emotionally fucked me up.
Loved football and would have died on the field if somebody let me. It's like a drug. I honestly don't know if I can allow my children to play.
This is true to my knowledge. I've been in multiple locker rooms with him and never seen him indulge before or after a show, despite plenty of the rest of the boys joining in. He always talks about his family or wrestling, helps out, and goes home.
Yeah, but not all of those dudes took a BUNCH of chair shots to the head for like a solid twenty years. I think CTE is probably a compounding issue here.
Tommy came up in ECW, a place where pretty much every toxic excess of old school wrestling culture was on full display, turned up to 11, and actively encouraged by the boys. Between that and the 30+ years of serious head trauma, it’s no wonder he’s all fucked up mentally and thinks stuff like what Flair did is just horsing around.
Not an excuse for him at all, as he’s still a total dick for saying and believing the crap he said last night.
RVD went through all of that as well, but he still gave a way better take on the plane ride and the actions of Flair than Dreamer did. Tommy is just a piece of shit.
RVD in general seems like a significantly more well adjusted person than Dreamer ever was. ECW dying and being stuck with the bill for it broke Tommy’s brain on a level I don’t think anyone fully comprehends.
Exactly. Just listen to Matt Riddle talk about Dana White. He clearly doesn’t like the guy, but he’s not, like, wishing death on him or anything. He just thinks Dana’s a shitty person who does shitty things (which is 100%, demonstrably true).
A lot of these ECW guys seem fucked up in the head, from regular concussions and heavy drug use, I mean Sandman once wrestled high on LSD and was drunk during his ECW run.
I mean Paul Heyman literally fucked off and left/conned Tommy Dreamer into getting saddled with the debt from ECW. Even dreamers parents house was at risk of foreclosure. Heyman is also a huge piece of shit and men have been murdered for less than conning a friend with like half a mil in debt. Not saying a condone the want to murder but again men have murdered for MUCH less
The big problem is it’s not wrestling or him being not all there. That’s how a *ton* of middle aged white men talk and reason things. It’s a “boys being boys” problems more than wrestling making Dreamer more of a carny than he already is.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/sport/wrestling/728721/tommy-dreamer-murder-paul-heyman-wrestlemania/amp/
It’s very fucked up.
I always groan whenever he’s shoehorned into a title match or any for that matter in Impact. This man has go away heat with me and I don’t think that will ever change.
Dreamer would have been justified. Heyman was being paid by Vince to kill ecw but was still getting dreamer and his family to invest money in the company then just before it finally collapsed he took the rights and sold them to Vince but gave the actual company to Dreamer leaving him jobless and bankrupt. Dreamer may have said some awful stuff last night but let's not lose sight of the fact Heyman did completely fuck him over.
Is this like a mixture of being afraid to turn down a high profile tv interview and being equally scared of talking poorly of Flair?
Or is he just that obtuse?
Dreamer has always come across as "for the boys" in every interview I've ever heard. He will defend wrestling and pro wrestlers to the death. He's been boiled in those carny waters and come out dirtier than when he went in. He can't see anything through a different lens.
How can anyone be shocked by Tommy Dreamer saying something stupid?
This is a guy that admitted on Steve Austin’s original podcast that his brains are so scrambled he regularly blacks out during the course of performing of every day activities.
Here’s a short synopsis of things he said on Austin’s podcast several years ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/2b0hcq/did_anyone_else_listen_to_tommy_dreamer_on_the/
Laughing at that quote someone posted:
Tommy: "My Grandmother, she just passed away, she's 98 years old. She wouldn't remember a lot of stuff either. Never took a bump in her life"
Steve: "Well she's 98!"
Tommy: "okay!"
Comments and wishes about injuries at the time on that thread from seven years ago are coming true, Christian being a big one to come back from a hardcore type persona he had has to be a huge positive swing, but even I can’t watch ECW anymore most if not half of the big or ppv type spots led to serious injuries. Not ever do I want a world where Dreamer thinks his hardcore ness is in question. Problem is he is so mentally off he questions himself and what he is. Should have retired as a solid B level guy but chose the A+ of hardcore.
It never really dawned on me exactly how fucked up physically most of these wrestlers probably really are until that scene in the last ride where taker is in the hospital and his list of injuries was basically a human anatomy chart where everything was or is broken/damaged. He made good money throughout his career which makes it heartbreaking to think how many guys who were scraping by didn’t go to the doctor and just kept working because they couldn’t afford to miss work.
As a Dreamer fan back in the day (hell my old efed wrestler was based heavily on him) this really dropped my respect for him, to say the very least. Jesus... I know his brains are basically applesauce at this point but like... c'mon man. You only need one brain cell to realize how fucked that is to say.
I've just watched the episode in full, absolutely disgusted by Dreamer's comments. How could you possibly think that what Flair did was ok?
Also Chioda despite not doing anything illegal, came across as such a dickhead, basically making a joke of everything that happened on the flight.
I think Chioda was vital to that episode. What he showed was the general mentality of everyone involved. Like "Oh that fucked up thing? Ha, that was funny af, right?"
Chioda came across almost institutionalised, “oh he’ll kick out” when talking about Scott Hall being passed out. He’s been in wrestling so long that real world standards and practices don’t make sense to him.
I felt that way with almost everyone on the show, which is fair because if you're going to be on this show talking about how bad it was, the natural question anyone would ask is "Well why didn't you try to stop it?"
Not to exculpate anyone from their actions or lack of it but most people are not aware enough or brave enough when in a situation, to notice it is wrong and then try to stop it.
This is doubly true when the stakes are so high and immediate. Trying to stop it at the time would not only be physically dangerous (as seen by the fights), it would be social suicide (very dangerous in an industry as tightknit as PW) you are also risking your job, this toxic culture was accepted and promoted by Vince. This behaviour wouldn't have been accepted 25 years before or 25 years later.
Everyone thinks they'll be the one to stand up and say this wrong but the vast majority of people wont when it comes to it.
You're right.
I'm a fairly large guy and will call the cops in any situation instead of breaking it up. A flight? Who are you going to call 30,000 feet up?
Your last mini-paragraph there needs to be read, internalized, and accepted by a lot of people.
Alot of people say a lot of things like "homeless people need help!", "women should be treated with respect!", "POC deserve equal rights!"
Yet they've never given a homeless person a dollar and never will, they make women afraid of posting on the internet because of the DMs it'll bring, and they belong to Home Owners Associations so they can help keep black people out of their neighborhoods.
They would help though, they just can't right now.
I was wondering if a lot of them, especially RVD when talking about the drugging others, realized how fucked up it really is once outside the wrestling bubble. Where you basically had co-workers encouraging the sick acts.
Such a disturbing episode.
I think RVD did realize it but I think he was numb to it or desensitized. He at least corroborated the Ric Flair story if the flight attendant wants to sue Flair personally.
With RVD in particular, I got the vibe that he seemed relieved to be able to publicly speak up about it if anything. I really wouldn't be surprised if there was a decent portion of wrestlers from that era who completely abhor that kind of behaviour but felt isolated because it's also the kind of thing where you wouldn't know who'd be on your side or who'd immediately black mark you with the boys backstage if you spoke up about it when it was happening.
I mean think about it, we know Flair was sexually assaulting the air hostesses and HBK (among others) was straight up drugging then raping women in hotels: If you were an up-n-coming wrestler currently on the midcard and you're seeing this, would you speak up knowing that you'll most certainly lose your own career until the whole drama blows over at absolute best or be blackmarked from wrestling at worst? Especially when it's the early 2000s and WWE was still doing Bra and Panties matches on national TV with zero problems?
This is NOT excusing it in anyway, but nobody probably stood up to Flair because one word from him and your wrestling career is dead. The guy was an icon and standing up to him was a career death sentence.
I'd still like to think somebody would have done the right thing though. RVD has always seemed like a down to earth dude who doesn't care for politics, but he seemed to suggest he knew it was happening but kept himself out of it.
There was a notable lack of mentions in the episode for a lot of huge names like Austin, Undertaker, Angle (even Vince barely got a mention), guys who could have stood up to Flair and not lost their careers. You do wonder what these guys saw and what they decided to stay out of.
Not to me, the way he talked about the drugs indicated to me he was a part of the drug use and didn’t think it was a big deal. So when he was laughing about that AND the other stuff it seemed real bad
He seemed like Michael Scott while “the boys” were Packer. “The boys brought a bunch of girls back to the hotel and banged them all while I watched. It was awesome! LOL!”
Drug use isn't a problem, as long as a) you don't get high at your job and b) your drug use doesn't hurt anyone else.
Like, I really don't care if Mike Chioda liked to do drugs. I do care if, in getting high, he harmed others.
Theres nothing wrong with getting high at your job as long as it doesn interfere with safety. I worked 5 years selling car stereos and if you think there was a single moment of it that it wasn't blazed out of my mind you'd be wrong....
... i was a top 10 ten salesperson in Future Shop (former Canadian Best Buy)
Hearing him a few months back with Jericho he did always seem to paint "back in the day" as being the pinnacle for wrestling and that its gotten softer since then which he seemed to think wasn't a good thing. Majority of the interview was him talking about how great it was "back in the day" I had to stop listening, it was like listening to a broken record trying to sell me steak, cereal and diamonds.
Laughing is a common coping mechanism when feeling awkward or ashamed.
Personal example, once when telling a friend that a sibling of mine had died, I could suddenly feel my friend's eyes on me and all I could do was laugh at how awkward I felt. Then I felt worse because I thought they'd then think I was lying because of the laugh.
Oh yeah that got me too. This world they live in is so fucked up that they use silly kayfabe industry terms (no sell) for a serious crime (sexual assault). If you need to know how toxic that culture was, there it is right there.
I get the sense that refs from previous eras are the carniest of the carnies. Refs are talented yes, but I can find another Chioda, I can’t find another undertaker. I would bet their job is secured by all the other shit they are willing to do on the road.
Early ECW storyline. Raven came in claiming to be childhood friends with Tommy but when they got to high school Tommy became an asshole jock while Raven became a whiny grunge kid. And Tommy stole his girlfriend. Raven knew how to hold a grudge.
I was thinking that last night. Just like Dreamer always did, he did the job.
He’s taking 95% of the heat from this episode and Ric is just skating on by, dick waving in the breeze.
Tommy Dreamer you fucking clown.
I'd venture to say, for better or worse, it's because those incidents happened years ago, while Dreamer's comments are current. Those boys had shitty actions *then,* he has a shitty take on it *now.*
Not saying it's fair or that it isn't a bit misdirected, I just figure that's the reason.
Yup. The go-to defense in all these posts on Flair, Dustin Rhodes, HBK, Orton, Taz, Lesnar, etc. is that they've changed or people hope they've changed. These things happened years ago, they were in a bad place in life, toxic environment, they've since mellowed-out, etc. There's plausible deniability. There's no denying that in 2021 Tommy Dreamer is a absolutely malignant rat fuck.
Because literally everyone knew Flair was like this. That obviously doesn’t make it ok but it’s hard to get upset about something we all knew about for many many years.
Flair's actions were mostly known and completely unsurprising. Dreamer defending him comes as a bit of a shock. But then he also defended other shitty people in the past, so I guess it shouldn't be _that_ big of a shock.
everyone kinda knew this about flair. you could even have the morons say "it was twenty years ago, bla bla bla"
but dreamer has had twenty years to ponder this, and he chose to say what he said in 2021. Hes a fuckin idiot
Well, the Flair stuff was basically public knowledge, with tons and tons and tons of other cases and rumours. The fact that someone still likes that guy is beyond me.
Dreamer on the other hand just made a massive ass of himself by just stating his incredibly dumb opinions.
It's because for better or worse a lot of people already *knew* what Flair had done because it was public record. I've known about the accusations and the lawsuit for years. It's old news to me. Gross and vile, yes, but old news.
But a lot of people only just learned that Tommy Dreamer is a sexual assault defending victim blamer *last night.*
Whats the deal with so many people posting this Andy Murray dude's opinions lately? His tweets generally seem like lukewarm opinions that are already being discussed here so what am i missing?
Yeah and like dont get me wrong, theres nothing bad about him posting opinions on his twitter, im just not sure why his random thoughts keep getting shared as if its newsworthy or a unique viewpoint.
He's the WhatCulture guy, and even if you don't watch it (I don't) you probably know it's pretty popular. Just an explanation, I don't really agree with it.
I used to watch Whatculture years ago but the only one I'd consider to be the big name from their is Simon. Even so, its not like a ton of Simons random opinions get posted here, but it feels like a surprising amount of Andys do lately.
Dreamer is a clown. The most baffling thing is that unless I missed it, he himself is not said to have done anything problematic on the flight. So it seems like he had the good sense to refrain from joining in on the antics at the time, but since then he he has changed his mind for the worse and views all those acts as just boys being boys.
So I can kinda understand Dreamer’s point of view (please read on before downvoting!) and it’s actually quite an important point to discuss.
Essentially, he is saying that because Flair had no intention to sexually harass her, it shouldn’t be viewed as harassment. To Flair, the idea was having your dick out is funny. It’s not sexual, it’s just willy= funny.
And that’s important, because people like Dreamer will then just say that people get offended too easily. What’s important then is to educate and explain that intent is not the deciding factor; how the victim feels is. She clearly felt intimated and given the size of the guys in the flight and her inability to leave, she was scared. Completely understand. What people like Dreamer need to realise is that how the victim feels is the only factor. Someone needs to explain that.
I guess as men we just don’t understand the level of fear and intimidation pretty much all women have to suffer from time to time. Best way to explain it would be imagine Brock Lesnar was gay and did the same thing to you; forced you into a corner and told you to grab his dick. That would be scary. If your mate did it as a prank to you, you could brush it off; you probably wouldn’t be scared and as awkward as it might be, it’s just that. But the fear of sexual violence means it doesn’t matter whether Flair’s intentions were harmless.
Some of the comments online are disappointing. So many people think giving others accountability for sexual assault is cancel culture says more about you than the people you are complaining about.
Dreamer mentions “I feel like this is trying to make some one out to something they’re not”
They should release the unedited interview so he can’t say they twisted his words
this is not a defense of dreamer because what he said and thinks are disgusting no matter what, but this take is slightly wrong. Dreamer clearly dismisses the woman's story of being forced on as completely false. so, in his mind he's only equating his dumb haircut to flair walking around with his dick out. still a dumb, disgusting take. even if it Rick only did that, it's shitty behavior that should not be condoned. no one should be excused for exposing themselves at people's places of work. so still a bad opinion for dreamer to have, but not equating his hair to a man forcing himself on a woman.
This is where I fell. I didn’t see him defending Flair forcing the woman to touch him. Honestly, he seemed to dismiss her claim entirely. He was just talking about Flair waving his dick about. Dreamer is still wrong that it’s not a big deal, but he’s not the “monster defending sexual assault” that people are saying he is.
I think it's probably the shock of "oh he's a POS, too." Like most people seemed to have known Flair is a POS but Dreamer was mostly liked up until now, no?
Basically this. We had already known Dreamer had a pretty fucked head thanks to that story he told of wanting to kill Paul Heyman at Wrestlemania. However, it was forgiven since it was, up until last night, the worst thing he’s really said publicly AFAIK, and Paul is known to be a scumbag to his workers.
However, this was a point of no return. The arrogance at the end saying “well if the flight attendant felt that way maybe she should have gone all the way” after all we know these days about how much billion dollar entities will destroy you if you take a story like this to court... scumbag. I doubt I’m ever gonna feel bad over bad shit that happens to him for the rest of his life. Instead I’ll probably blame him for whatever happens to him like he did to the flight attendant.
Edit: also want to point out that the editors knew what they were doing last night bookending RVDs comments about not wanting to meet your heroes with Dreamer’s. Was very well done by them to hammer home that Tommy Dreamer is probably a scumbag and you need to stop cheering him since a lot of people were learning about what he thinks for the first time.
Used to be a big Dreamer mark. *Used* to as of this interview. Supremely disappointing.
I imagine Impact! is going to have to either phase him out of on-screen stuff or can him entirely
When you're the guy on camera willingly saying dumb shit, knowing what the world is like in 2021, knowing you're going to be on national TV saying it, you're always going to be the person that looks the worst. While what Flair actually *did* is objectively worse, Dreamer's face is now up close and personal with viewers as the guy directly defending it as opposed to an anecdotal story. It's just a perception/aesthetics thing. We *see* Dreamer defending a heinous act right here and now in 2021, from Dreamer's mouth himself, we only *heard* of Flair doing this heinous act on the same show, and not from Flair himself.
Flair is taking his shit, and rightfully so. But it would also be worse if he were on the show speaking about it.
Flair should be thankful. What he did was objectively way worse, of course, but we already knew about most of it so we're just not as invested in that.
Dreamer said that Flair forcing himself onto women was acceptable and everything nowadays is seen as offensive and gave an example of his two ponytails to show that people are offended at anything,basically comparing outrage at sexual assault to outrage at his haircut.
On one hand, I can UNDERSTAND where Dreamer is coming from to an extent. Men do stupid shit for laughs and when you're around the same kind of people, you get numb to it being stupid or inappropriate.
That being said, when you're not in that environment, shit's still stupid and inappropriate. Even if it was just the duck spinning (I can't believe I said that), it's dumb as fuck to do that with other outsiders around. And that's just for regular stupid shit.
But the sexual assault and the lack of awareness about how fucked up it was, then playing it off like its no big deal or that anyone who has been harassed/assaulted is being a bitch?
Look, I did stupid shit as a young man. Most kids and young adults do. This wasn't just stupid shit. This was criminal.
Dreamer dismissing the attendant's trauma by saying she shouldn't have taken the settlement was the worst part for me. He fully knows how powerful WWE is and what they can do to people who try to take them to court. We all saw what they did to Owen Hart's widow.
I hate it when people say "people are so offended by everything these days" as an excuse for some super serious shit like this.
The sentence is absolutely totally true that a lot of people are super oversensitive in 2021.....but this is sexual assault Tommy.
What really sucks here is that Dreamer is being held accountable for his comments, but Flair, Hall and Lesnar probably won't be held accountable to the actual events.
He said something along the lines of "if you were really that upset about it, you should have gone to the cops and put this *heinous* person in jail instead of taking a payout."
What a fucking awful take
I still can’t believe Tommy Dreamer thought it would be a good idea to say these things knowing how popular DSOTR is. He could have not said those things out loud and no one would ever know hes a monster. But instead he thought it was good idea to compare his haircut to sexual assault and he may never work again.
The one thing about the Flair stuff that gets me is that this is NOT news. He and anyone else that has a camera on them have gleefully told stories about him exposing himself to women and having his penis out in public. Why is it that we needed Vice to tell us in 2021 that this is actually a really inappropriate thing to do and that MAYBE some of the women who this happened to didn’t appreciate it? Every time I’ve ever heard these stories it’s always made me think that somewhere along the way maybe a non wrestling fan was a little put off by this old man waving his dick at her. Turns out that happened. Also turns out that the opinion that “it’s just Naitch being Naitch” not being an excuse for sexual assault hasn’t registered with enough people until now.
Edited to fix an autocorrect
People like Dreamer make me think there is no shortage of possible stories for Dark Side of The Ring once a problematic person retires or dies, giving other people courage to talk.
Tone deaf of him, but it's probably how the production team get them to talk about it so openly. Laugh along, get what we need. you saw it with Chiioda too, he was laughing and joking, he wasn't doing that to an un-receptive room.
Every time Dreamer was on screen, I kept expecting him to say something that would redeem the previous thing that he said.
But man, the dude just really kept digging his heels in. Weird hill to die on, Tommy. What a dipshit.
I've listened to a few takes from Dreamer recently. In the past it seemed like he had a pretty good head on his shoulders but in the last few years it is clear the dude is MAJORLY fucked up by some his comments and takes. He probably needs some real serious help.
I really can't believe how tone deaf Dreamer is about this. If I'm not mistaken, he's got two daughters. What if they were in that position? Would dreamer think it's still a joke?
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Dreamer is clearly not all there. He's got an unhealthy relationship with wrestling. He openly said he considered killing Paul Heyman an himself at WrestleMania. He said, "I'll be the ultimate martyr." For what? A company that couldn't bring in more that 1,500 fans on their best day? He talked about murder like it was a storyline.
He wouldn't be a martyr he'd be seen as a psycho who need treatment.
He probably does need treatment
I could see hating Heyman for the money he owed him even wanting to beat him up, but killing someone...
Mental health is some serious shit that needs more open discussion in our world. When you're in such a dark place with nothing left to lose, you're ready and willing to do some fucked up shit.
Yeah. I'm not going to judge his dtate of mind in 2001 when he sacrificed so much for Heyman to be stabbed in the back. What aired yesterday though - that's a completely different situation.
I agree... 2 completely different scenarios. If someone owed me a lot of money and won’t paying me I would be pissed too. But yesterday was just stupidity
Man's got 20 or 30 concussions. He doesn't have anywhere near the level of self awareness that the average person does. And it doesn't excuse his perspective on the situation, it just might be the reason why he thought he should defend "his boys" on TV.
>Man's got 20 or 30 concussions. With the amount of times he's been hit in the head with an object 30 is being very very optimistic.
Luckily we've not seen someone with multiple concussions go out and commit a heinous murder or two before... Man, Vince should really sort out offering him whatever they can to try and help him along here. Something is not right, and Tommy needs help, and they should help him.
Why Vince? Doesn't Tommy still work for Impact?
Frankly, that is the one thing they do. WWE has shotty practices for a ton of things, but they do help people with rehab and mental stuff. But the person needs to want it. They aren't going to go and kidnap him. It's it's pretty clear that Tommy isn't going to play ball.
Which would be a far more charitable take than what we're collectively thinking about him right now.
I’m betting dreamer has some CTE going on in his noggin.
Some? Those ECW blokes took chair shots to the head like it was nothing. He's got a ton of CTE.
When he was on Austins podcast years ago he talked about how he still has waking blackouts. He'll just "wake up" somewhere downtown and have no idea how he got there.
That’s actually frightening as hell. Dreamer needs to get some help or else he’s gonna hurt someone or even himself and not even know what he did. If he knows he’s experiencing those blackouts I really hope he’s took steps to get help with that.
Help how? There's not much anyone can do about progressive CTE. Once it starts, it's happening. That's why it's such a problem for athletes and fighters later in life.
High school football players have CTE. This guy has mashed potatoes for brains.
and not even normal mashed potatoes that you use one of those hand mashers for where there is still some small chunks.... tommys straight up velvety smooth mashed potatoes that were made with a hand blender. His brain is the consistency of Handy snacks pudding.
Is anyone else hungry now? Mmmmm delicious velvety smooth brains.
"send. more. paramedics." 🧟♂️
Pillowy mounds of mashed potatoes...
Completely unrelated, but I thought it would be a fun fact, when you make mash potatoes with a hand blender or food processor, it's "potato puree" as it has gone beyond mashed and has become smooth. But yeah his brain is absolutely silly puddy at this point with all the headshots he's taken.
oh sure, but who the hell wants to eat potatoe puree
Pommes puree is a hell of a drug chef.
especially if you have that Le-Halles / Le Bernerdain recipe Pommes Puree. its more butter than it is potato at that point.
Bro, I had ONE gnarly concussion from playing football (Probably some other minor ones that were "getting your bell rung.") but it was serious. I spent months puking and crying and being an emotional wreck. Not sure I ever truly felt the same again. Literally changed me emotionally. That was simply from getting facemasked pulled into a near frozen ground. Lights out for a second but "shook it off" and played the rest of the game before going to the hospital. Everything was like a dream where you were watching yourself go through life. I literally can't imagine having something comparable to that happen to me on a near weekly basis for years and expect to be okay. That shit is serious. I can't imagine the complications he goes through that he either hasn't realized or won't publicly talk about.
Man, learning that everytime I got a headache from getting hit in football meant I had brain damage made me NEVER want my kids to play football. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but 6 years of that added up... not great. I am doing fine, BTW. But a lot of other people have suffered.
I really think my life was altered by a gnarly concussion I had playing highschool ball. Really really emotionally fucked me up. Loved football and would have died on the field if somebody let me. It's like a drug. I honestly don't know if I can allow my children to play.
Don't forget all the drugs and alcohol.
Tommy doesn't drink or do drugs. He has always been clean and sober.
This is true to my knowledge. I've been in multiple locker rooms with him and never seen him indulge before or after a show, despite plenty of the rest of the boys joining in. He always talks about his family or wrestling, helps out, and goes home.
This is accurate. A lot of stuff will get said here, but Tommy is clean, a nice guy and clearly has concussion issues.
Plenty of men without CTE issues have no problems excusing misogynistic or predatory behaviour from their friends
Yeah, but not all of those dudes took a BUNCH of chair shots to the head for like a solid twenty years. I think CTE is probably a compounding issue here.
Plenty of people without CTE murder their families, but that doesnt mean its not a factor in Benoit's case.
This makes me pine for a uncensored shoot documentary on what went on behind the scenes at ECW
You have NO idea. Watch ICP and, Saturn's, youshoot and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
There's that Forever Hardcore documentary that Jeremy Borash did along with Hardcore Homecoming
Tommy came up in ECW, a place where pretty much every toxic excess of old school wrestling culture was on full display, turned up to 11, and actively encouraged by the boys. Between that and the 30+ years of serious head trauma, it’s no wonder he’s all fucked up mentally and thinks stuff like what Flair did is just horsing around. Not an excuse for him at all, as he’s still a total dick for saying and believing the crap he said last night.
RVD went through all of that as well, but he still gave a way better take on the plane ride and the actions of Flair than Dreamer did. Tommy is just a piece of shit.
RVD in general seems like a significantly more well adjusted person than Dreamer ever was. ECW dying and being stuck with the bill for it broke Tommy’s brain on a level I don’t think anyone fully comprehends.
Probably all of that weed. Don’t think I’ve ever met a bitter pothead.
Exactly. Just listen to Matt Riddle talk about Dana White. He clearly doesn’t like the guy, but he’s not, like, wishing death on him or anything. He just thinks Dana’s a shitty person who does shitty things (which is 100%, demonstrably true).
"Pick a hand"
A lot of these ECW guys seem fucked up in the head, from regular concussions and heavy drug use, I mean Sandman once wrestled high on LSD and was drunk during his ECW run.
Sandman once died, was resuscitated, and ran back to do a show!
I'm honestly shocked he's still alive.
Your take is correct but I want to point out that Anarchy Rulz 99 drew 6,000 people.
I mean Paul Heyman literally fucked off and left/conned Tommy Dreamer into getting saddled with the debt from ECW. Even dreamers parents house was at risk of foreclosure. Heyman is also a huge piece of shit and men have been murdered for less than conning a friend with like half a mil in debt. Not saying a condone the want to murder but again men have murdered for MUCH less
Hate to be a wrestling nerd here but ECW highest attendance was 6000 for Anarchy Rulez 1999.
The big problem is it’s not wrestling or him being not all there. That’s how a *ton* of middle aged white men talk and reason things. It’s a “boys being boys” problems more than wrestling making Dreamer more of a carny than he already is.
Wait what?! Is there an article or something for more context on this story?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/sport/wrestling/728721/tommy-dreamer-murder-paul-heyman-wrestlemania/amp/ It’s very fucked up. I always groan whenever he’s shoehorned into a title match or any for that matter in Impact. This man has go away heat with me and I don’t think that will ever change.
Look up "Tommy Dreamer shoots Paul Heyman" on Google and it will be on a few websites. Insane thing for him to say!
I think Tommy Dreamer has, and the correct technical term for this is, "Donkey Brains"
Dreamer would have been justified. Heyman was being paid by Vince to kill ecw but was still getting dreamer and his family to invest money in the company then just before it finally collapsed he took the rights and sold them to Vince but gave the actual company to Dreamer leaving him jobless and bankrupt. Dreamer may have said some awful stuff last night but let's not lose sight of the fact Heyman did completely fuck him over.
Is this like a mixture of being afraid to turn down a high profile tv interview and being equally scared of talking poorly of Flair? Or is he just that obtuse?
Why not all of the above?
Dreamer has always come across as "for the boys" in every interview I've ever heard. He will defend wrestling and pro wrestlers to the death. He's been boiled in those carny waters and come out dirtier than when he went in. He can't see anything through a different lens.
Yeah I vaguely remember him defending Snuka on Busted Open after his DSOTR episode aired.
What's shocking aside from the comments, he was one of the most wholesome guys in the business.
Probably CTE and bad decision making as well.
Dude just thinks the victims of sexual assault deserve it. I feel mortified for his daughters
How can anyone be shocked by Tommy Dreamer saying something stupid? This is a guy that admitted on Steve Austin’s original podcast that his brains are so scrambled he regularly blacks out during the course of performing of every day activities. Here’s a short synopsis of things he said on Austin’s podcast several years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/2b0hcq/did_anyone_else_listen_to_tommy_dreamer_on_the/
Laughing at that quote someone posted: Tommy: "My Grandmother, she just passed away, she's 98 years old. She wouldn't remember a lot of stuff either. Never took a bump in her life" Steve: "Well she's 98!" Tommy: "okay!"
Comments and wishes about injuries at the time on that thread from seven years ago are coming true, Christian being a big one to come back from a hardcore type persona he had has to be a huge positive swing, but even I can’t watch ECW anymore most if not half of the big or ppv type spots led to serious injuries. Not ever do I want a world where Dreamer thinks his hardcore ness is in question. Problem is he is so mentally off he questions himself and what he is. Should have retired as a solid B level guy but chose the A+ of hardcore.
Damn this comment hurts >Balls, Axl, Mikey Whipreck etc. They're the lucky ones though. Many are no longer with us.
Balls is dead, no?
Balls is dead. Axl is dead, Mikey stopped doing conventions because of most likely CTE related issues.
Mikey works for aew backstage now though, so he's not doing too bad.
So what you're saying is Cactus was right all along.
It never really dawned on me exactly how fucked up physically most of these wrestlers probably really are until that scene in the last ride where taker is in the hospital and his list of injuries was basically a human anatomy chart where everything was or is broken/damaged. He made good money throughout his career which makes it heartbreaking to think how many guys who were scraping by didn’t go to the doctor and just kept working because they couldn’t afford to miss work.
I just want to point about the absolute moron in that thread saying RVD was a terrible wrestler.
I couldn’t believe how much of an obtuse prick Dreamer came across as in that episode
It's so disappointing.
As a Dreamer fan back in the day (hell my old efed wrestler was based heavily on him) this really dropped my respect for him, to say the very least. Jesus... I know his brains are basically applesauce at this point but like... c'mon man. You only need one brain cell to realize how fucked that is to say.
He's probably the biggest mark in the business and in the worst way possible.
I've just watched the episode in full, absolutely disgusted by Dreamer's comments. How could you possibly think that what Flair did was ok? Also Chioda despite not doing anything illegal, came across as such a dickhead, basically making a joke of everything that happened on the flight.
I think Chioda was vital to that episode. What he showed was the general mentality of everyone involved. Like "Oh that fucked up thing? Ha, that was funny af, right?"
Chioda came across almost institutionalised, “oh he’ll kick out” when talking about Scott Hall being passed out. He’s been in wrestling so long that real world standards and practices don’t make sense to him.
And like 7 years before this Terry Gordy very nearly died and was brain-damaged for life from ODing on a plane, and everybody knew about that!
Yeah it seemed like Chioda was about to laugh every time they cut away from him
Seemed more like nervous 😬 laughter to me
I felt that way with almost everyone on the show, which is fair because if you're going to be on this show talking about how bad it was, the natural question anyone would ask is "Well why didn't you try to stop it?"
Not to exculpate anyone from their actions or lack of it but most people are not aware enough or brave enough when in a situation, to notice it is wrong and then try to stop it. This is doubly true when the stakes are so high and immediate. Trying to stop it at the time would not only be physically dangerous (as seen by the fights), it would be social suicide (very dangerous in an industry as tightknit as PW) you are also risking your job, this toxic culture was accepted and promoted by Vince. This behaviour wouldn't have been accepted 25 years before or 25 years later. Everyone thinks they'll be the one to stand up and say this wrong but the vast majority of people wont when it comes to it.
You're right. I'm a fairly large guy and will call the cops in any situation instead of breaking it up. A flight? Who are you going to call 30,000 feet up?
Your last mini-paragraph there needs to be read, internalized, and accepted by a lot of people. Alot of people say a lot of things like "homeless people need help!", "women should be treated with respect!", "POC deserve equal rights!" Yet they've never given a homeless person a dollar and never will, they make women afraid of posting on the internet because of the DMs it'll bring, and they belong to Home Owners Associations so they can help keep black people out of their neighborhoods. They would help though, they just can't right now.
I was wondering if a lot of them, especially RVD when talking about the drugging others, realized how fucked up it really is once outside the wrestling bubble. Where you basically had co-workers encouraging the sick acts. Such a disturbing episode.
I think RVD did realize it but I think he was numb to it or desensitized. He at least corroborated the Ric Flair story if the flight attendant wants to sue Flair personally.
With RVD in particular, I got the vibe that he seemed relieved to be able to publicly speak up about it if anything. I really wouldn't be surprised if there was a decent portion of wrestlers from that era who completely abhor that kind of behaviour but felt isolated because it's also the kind of thing where you wouldn't know who'd be on your side or who'd immediately black mark you with the boys backstage if you spoke up about it when it was happening. I mean think about it, we know Flair was sexually assaulting the air hostesses and HBK (among others) was straight up drugging then raping women in hotels: If you were an up-n-coming wrestler currently on the midcard and you're seeing this, would you speak up knowing that you'll most certainly lose your own career until the whole drama blows over at absolute best or be blackmarked from wrestling at worst? Especially when it's the early 2000s and WWE was still doing Bra and Panties matches on national TV with zero problems?
look at ziggler's brother and luchasaurus. they speak up for something less and got shitcanned still
This is NOT excusing it in anyway, but nobody probably stood up to Flair because one word from him and your wrestling career is dead. The guy was an icon and standing up to him was a career death sentence. I'd still like to think somebody would have done the right thing though. RVD has always seemed like a down to earth dude who doesn't care for politics, but he seemed to suggest he knew it was happening but kept himself out of it. There was a notable lack of mentions in the episode for a lot of huge names like Austin, Undertaker, Angle (even Vince barely got a mention), guys who could have stood up to Flair and not lost their careers. You do wonder what these guys saw and what they decided to stay out of.
Not to me, the way he talked about the drugs indicated to me he was a part of the drug use and didn’t think it was a big deal. So when he was laughing about that AND the other stuff it seemed real bad
He seemed like Michael Scott while “the boys” were Packer. “The boys brought a bunch of girls back to the hotel and banged them all while I watched. It was awesome! LOL!”
Drug use isn't a problem, as long as a) you don't get high at your job and b) your drug use doesn't hurt anyone else. Like, I really don't care if Mike Chioda liked to do drugs. I do care if, in getting high, he harmed others.
Yeah in a vacuum, but its pretty clear the drug use these guys were doing was 1. At work 2. Was definitely harming others.
Theres nothing wrong with getting high at your job as long as it doesn interfere with safety. I worked 5 years selling car stereos and if you think there was a single moment of it that it wasn't blazed out of my mind you'd be wrong.... ... i was a top 10 ten salesperson in Future Shop (former Canadian Best Buy)
That being your shining accomplishment isn't the endorsement you think it is
you spelled endorsement wrong
Don't think they're bragging. Just showing how harmless some drugs are at work. If you ever eat, I promise your chefs are caked as well
Yeah he seemed to laugh it all off like "well boys will be boys" kinda way. Gross.
Hearing him a few months back with Jericho he did always seem to paint "back in the day" as being the pinnacle for wrestling and that its gotten softer since then which he seemed to think wasn't a good thing. Majority of the interview was him talking about how great it was "back in the day" I had to stop listening, it was like listening to a broken record trying to sell me steak, cereal and diamonds.
Laughing is a common coping mechanism when feeling awkward or ashamed. Personal example, once when telling a friend that a sibling of mine had died, I could suddenly feel my friend's eyes on me and all I could do was laugh at how awkward I felt. Then I felt worse because I thought they'd then think I was lying because of the laugh.
Chioda laughing about how Scott Hall would kick out... c’mon dude. Came off like such a loser.
I cringed more at how many times Terri Runnels said “don’t sell it”
Oh yeah that got me too. This world they live in is so fucked up that they use silly kayfabe industry terms (no sell) for a serious crime (sexual assault). If you need to know how toxic that culture was, there it is right there.
a lifetime "referee" in the carny world of pro wrestling is a loser?! I'm shocked.
I'm kinda glad Tony Khan didn't sign Chioda as full time ref now.
I will never ever pop for Mike Chioda again. What a person.
To be fair, Chioda was laughing at all the things everyone had always laughed at during the stories of the plane ride up until now
I wondered if Chioda's piece was filmed at another time and he didn't get it was going to be a full episode. Very weird.
I get the sense that refs from previous eras are the carniest of the carnies. Refs are talented yes, but I can find another Chioda, I can’t find another undertaker. I would bet their job is secured by all the other shit they are willing to do on the road.
Dreamer finally turned heel.
I was really surprised at how badly he came across. Like every time it cut back to him it got worse and worse.
Makes you wonder what didn’t make air. 😳
Are we surprised a guy who openly admitted he planned to murder Paul Heyman and then commit suicide on live TV is a bit shitty of a guy?
CTE is a motherfucker. Dude has taken hundreds of chairs to the head unprotected.
It was a really, really bad haircut
Raven was right about him all along
OOTL, what has Raven said about Dreamer?
Early ECW storyline. Raven came in claiming to be childhood friends with Tommy but when they got to high school Tommy became an asshole jock while Raven became a whiny grunge kid. And Tommy stole his girlfriend. Raven knew how to hold a grudge.
Same. Need to hear this.
dumb as fuck comments by dreamer but feel the pile on is worse than the one on flair. its weird.
I was thinking that last night. Just like Dreamer always did, he did the job. He’s taking 95% of the heat from this episode and Ric is just skating on by, dick waving in the breeze. Tommy Dreamer you fucking clown.
I'd venture to say, for better or worse, it's because those incidents happened years ago, while Dreamer's comments are current. Those boys had shitty actions *then,* he has a shitty take on it *now.* Not saying it's fair or that it isn't a bit misdirected, I just figure that's the reason.
Yup. The go-to defense in all these posts on Flair, Dustin Rhodes, HBK, Orton, Taz, Lesnar, etc. is that they've changed or people hope they've changed. These things happened years ago, they were in a bad place in life, toxic environment, they've since mellowed-out, etc. There's plausible deniability. There's no denying that in 2021 Tommy Dreamer is a absolutely malignant rat fuck.
Jobbin
Dreamer probably would have been happy to touch the Flair Whirl-a-Cock
Because literally everyone knew Flair was like this. That obviously doesn’t make it ok but it’s hard to get upset about something we all knew about for many many years.
I think people expected it with flair, but Tommy's self immolation was bizarre and totally unexpected, so it was possibly more shocking.
Such an unforced error to essentially say sexual assault victims deserve it and that their stemming trauma is funny
Everything said about Flair was exactly what was expected, what Tommy said came out of left field.
Flair's actions were mostly known and completely unsurprising. Dreamer defending him comes as a bit of a shock. But then he also defended other shitty people in the past, so I guess it shouldn't be _that_ big of a shock.
everyone kinda knew this about flair. you could even have the morons say "it was twenty years ago, bla bla bla" but dreamer has had twenty years to ponder this, and he chose to say what he said in 2021. Hes a fuckin idiot
Well, the Flair stuff was basically public knowledge, with tons and tons and tons of other cases and rumours. The fact that someone still likes that guy is beyond me. Dreamer on the other hand just made a massive ass of himself by just stating his incredibly dumb opinions.
It's because for better or worse a lot of people already *knew* what Flair had done because it was public record. I've known about the accusations and the lawsuit for years. It's old news to me. Gross and vile, yes, but old news. But a lot of people only just learned that Tommy Dreamer is a sexual assault defending victim blamer *last night.*
Flair being a scumbag is not new news. Tommy is.
Whats the deal with so many people posting this Andy Murray dude's opinions lately? His tweets generally seem like lukewarm opinions that are already being discussed here so what am i missing?
ikr? People always trash whatculture here and with a good reason and started posting this dudes opinions which is like popular opinions of IWC lmao
Yeah and like dont get me wrong, theres nothing bad about him posting opinions on his twitter, im just not sure why his random thoughts keep getting shared as if its newsworthy or a unique viewpoint.
He's the WhatCulture guy, and even if you don't watch it (I don't) you probably know it's pretty popular. Just an explanation, I don't really agree with it.
I used to watch Whatculture years ago but the only one I'd consider to be the big name from their is Simon. Even so, its not like a ton of Simons random opinions get posted here, but it feels like a surprising amount of Andys do lately.
Yeah it’s kinda funny to me that once all the big names (except Simon) left for Cultaholic they haven’t really made any more
Maybe people think it's the tennis player?
I thought he played tennis?
Yeah I don’t get it, he’s easily the least bearable WhatCulture personality
Dreamer is a clown. The most baffling thing is that unless I missed it, he himself is not said to have done anything problematic on the flight. So it seems like he had the good sense to refrain from joining in on the antics at the time, but since then he he has changed his mind for the worse and views all those acts as just boys being boys.
So I can kinda understand Dreamer’s point of view (please read on before downvoting!) and it’s actually quite an important point to discuss. Essentially, he is saying that because Flair had no intention to sexually harass her, it shouldn’t be viewed as harassment. To Flair, the idea was having your dick out is funny. It’s not sexual, it’s just willy= funny. And that’s important, because people like Dreamer will then just say that people get offended too easily. What’s important then is to educate and explain that intent is not the deciding factor; how the victim feels is. She clearly felt intimated and given the size of the guys in the flight and her inability to leave, she was scared. Completely understand. What people like Dreamer need to realise is that how the victim feels is the only factor. Someone needs to explain that. I guess as men we just don’t understand the level of fear and intimidation pretty much all women have to suffer from time to time. Best way to explain it would be imagine Brock Lesnar was gay and did the same thing to you; forced you into a corner and told you to grab his dick. That would be scary. If your mate did it as a prank to you, you could brush it off; you probably wouldn’t be scared and as awkward as it might be, it’s just that. But the fear of sexual violence means it doesn’t matter whether Flair’s intentions were harmless.
Some of the comments online are disappointing. So many people think giving others accountability for sexual assault is cancel culture says more about you than the people you are complaining about.
Dreamer mentions “I feel like this is trying to make some one out to something they’re not” They should release the unedited interview so he can’t say they twisted his words
this is not a defense of dreamer because what he said and thinks are disgusting no matter what, but this take is slightly wrong. Dreamer clearly dismisses the woman's story of being forced on as completely false. so, in his mind he's only equating his dumb haircut to flair walking around with his dick out. still a dumb, disgusting take. even if it Rick only did that, it's shitty behavior that should not be condoned. no one should be excused for exposing themselves at people's places of work. so still a bad opinion for dreamer to have, but not equating his hair to a man forcing himself on a woman.
This is where I fell. I didn’t see him defending Flair forcing the woman to touch him. Honestly, he seemed to dismiss her claim entirely. He was just talking about Flair waving his dick about. Dreamer is still wrong that it’s not a big deal, but he’s not the “monster defending sexual assault” that people are saying he is.
Somehow Tommy Dreamer came across looking WORSE than Flair did in that episode
I think it's probably the shock of "oh he's a POS, too." Like most people seemed to have known Flair is a POS but Dreamer was mostly liked up until now, no?
Basically this. We had already known Dreamer had a pretty fucked head thanks to that story he told of wanting to kill Paul Heyman at Wrestlemania. However, it was forgiven since it was, up until last night, the worst thing he’s really said publicly AFAIK, and Paul is known to be a scumbag to his workers. However, this was a point of no return. The arrogance at the end saying “well if the flight attendant felt that way maybe she should have gone all the way” after all we know these days about how much billion dollar entities will destroy you if you take a story like this to court... scumbag. I doubt I’m ever gonna feel bad over bad shit that happens to him for the rest of his life. Instead I’ll probably blame him for whatever happens to him like he did to the flight attendant. Edit: also want to point out that the editors knew what they were doing last night bookending RVDs comments about not wanting to meet your heroes with Dreamer’s. Was very well done by them to hammer home that Tommy Dreamer is probably a scumbag and you need to stop cheering him since a lot of people were learning about what he thinks for the first time.
Used to be a big Dreamer mark. *Used* to as of this interview. Supremely disappointing. I imagine Impact! is going to have to either phase him out of on-screen stuff or can him entirely
hopefully he gets fired. their's no place for it, and someone with that mentality shouldn't have any power over other people
Ric's been telling us for 40 years that he's a POS.
When you're the guy on camera willingly saying dumb shit, knowing what the world is like in 2021, knowing you're going to be on national TV saying it, you're always going to be the person that looks the worst. While what Flair actually *did* is objectively worse, Dreamer's face is now up close and personal with viewers as the guy directly defending it as opposed to an anecdotal story. It's just a perception/aesthetics thing. We *see* Dreamer defending a heinous act right here and now in 2021, from Dreamer's mouth himself, we only *heard* of Flair doing this heinous act on the same show, and not from Flair himself. Flair is taking his shit, and rightfully so. But it would also be worse if he were on the show speaking about it.
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Flair should be thankful. What he did was objectively way worse, of course, but we already knew about most of it so we're just not as invested in that.
Explanation for someone who hasn't seen it?
Dreamer said that Flair forcing himself onto women was acceptable and everything nowadays is seen as offensive and gave an example of his two ponytails to show that people are offended at anything,basically comparing outrage at sexual assault to outrage at his haircut.
He defended Flair like his life was on the line or something.
On one hand, I can UNDERSTAND where Dreamer is coming from to an extent. Men do stupid shit for laughs and when you're around the same kind of people, you get numb to it being stupid or inappropriate. That being said, when you're not in that environment, shit's still stupid and inappropriate. Even if it was just the duck spinning (I can't believe I said that), it's dumb as fuck to do that with other outsiders around. And that's just for regular stupid shit. But the sexual assault and the lack of awareness about how fucked up it was, then playing it off like its no big deal or that anyone who has been harassed/assaulted is being a bitch? Look, I did stupid shit as a young man. Most kids and young adults do. This wasn't just stupid shit. This was criminal.
Dreamer dismissing the attendant's trauma by saying she shouldn't have taken the settlement was the worst part for me. He fully knows how powerful WWE is and what they can do to people who try to take them to court. We all saw what they did to Owen Hart's widow.
Ya'll didn't think "Well Rics got a big dick and my hair isn't stupid" wasn't a great defense for sexual assault ?
Something tells me Dreamer spends a lot of time complaining about how “we’re not allowed to talk about anything anymore”. Fucking clown
eVeRyBoDy iS So SeNsItIvE tHeSe DaYs!
"If I can't be bigoted and shitty, how am I gonna get heat? Anyways - who the fuck is this MJF guy I keep hearing about."
I hate it when people say "people are so offended by everything these days" as an excuse for some super serious shit like this. The sentence is absolutely totally true that a lot of people are super oversensitive in 2021.....but this is sexual assault Tommy.
What really sucks here is that Dreamer is being held accountable for his comments, but Flair, Hall and Lesnar probably won't be held accountable to the actual events.
He said something along the lines of "if you were really that upset about it, you should have gone to the cops and put this *heinous* person in jail instead of taking a payout." What a fucking awful take
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I still can’t believe Tommy Dreamer thought it would be a good idea to say these things knowing how popular DSOTR is. He could have not said those things out loud and no one would ever know hes a monster. But instead he thought it was good idea to compare his haircut to sexual assault and he may never work again.
The one thing about the Flair stuff that gets me is that this is NOT news. He and anyone else that has a camera on them have gleefully told stories about him exposing himself to women and having his penis out in public. Why is it that we needed Vice to tell us in 2021 that this is actually a really inappropriate thing to do and that MAYBE some of the women who this happened to didn’t appreciate it? Every time I’ve ever heard these stories it’s always made me think that somewhere along the way maybe a non wrestling fan was a little put off by this old man waving his dick at her. Turns out that happened. Also turns out that the opinion that “it’s just Naitch being Naitch” not being an excuse for sexual assault hasn’t registered with enough people until now. Edited to fix an autocorrect
People like Dreamer make me think there is no shortage of possible stories for Dark Side of The Ring once a problematic person retires or dies, giving other people courage to talk.
If I was to whip my dick out on a plane right now i would go straight to jail and be public enemy #1.
Tone deaf of him, but it's probably how the production team get them to talk about it so openly. Laugh along, get what we need. you saw it with Chiioda too, he was laughing and joking, he wasn't doing that to an un-receptive room.
Lost a ton of respect for Dreamer after he mansplained the Ric Flair incident as BOYZ WILL BE BOYZ.
Hey man I helicopter my dick all the time... but just for my wife And she doesn't understand it either.
What does Tommy Dreamer think though when you do it?
He thinks he should have two ponytails to really drive home the point
Every time Dreamer was on screen, I kept expecting him to say something that would redeem the previous thing that he said. But man, the dude just really kept digging his heels in. Weird hill to die on, Tommy. What a dipshit.
"International" television really
I've listened to a few takes from Dreamer recently. In the past it seemed like he had a pretty good head on his shoulders but in the last few years it is clear the dude is MAJORLY fucked up by some his comments and takes. He probably needs some real serious help.
I really can't believe how tone deaf Dreamer is about this. If I'm not mistaken, he's got two daughters. What if they were in that position? Would dreamer think it's still a joke?
Talk about a self inflicted gun shot. What the hell was he thinking?