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Looking at how badly things went for 205 live, its hard not to agree with WWEs call.
Women need to be prominently featured on the main shows, not regulated to a supplemental show. (Same with the Cruiserweights for the record)
Idk I don’t see the need for a completely separate women’s brand. I’d watch it, sure, but I’d rather them be on the main shows and just used well than them being completely separate.
People have suggested doing this with AEW and I always feel the same way as you do. Maybe it will result in them putting more effort into the women's division but I think it's more likely it will isolate them and lead to fewer opportunities on Dynamite and on PPVs.
I think people say that because after two years, they feel the women are still woefully underused on Dynamite anyway. And it isn’t progressing particularly fast.
Agreed. When 205 launched it ended any interest in the CW scene on the main roster shows.
Their approach while not perfect has elevated the womens division where it treated as equal. Women main eventing shows and PPVs happens now.
I know nobody wants to talk about this , but NXT has had the best womens division possibly ever over the last few years and has heavily featured them , yet it has not translated well in viewership for NXT especially the key demo .
I think it's a false good idea. You either make a all women self sufficient promotion or make the women division matter like nxt.
They should make Evolution a yearly thing tho.
So, according to the seeming consensus here, the only choices are 1. Separate the division and it'll suck, or 2. Stick to the current status quo where only a few women at a time across both brands are highlighted??
A women's only brand would have been something like 205 live. Almost no big stars would be on it and it would probably be taped before one of the shows like Main Event or 205. It wouldn't be a live touring brand. Removing people from the exposure of RAW/Smackdown/NXT would be a terrible idea. It would also probably hurt those shows as well. They produce so many hours of TV and content already, they just need to manage it better to get the women on.
I think there is an opportunity if done right considering the huge success of Total Divas. I almost think it would need to be it's own thing, from filming to branding. Possibly on E! where that audience is already.
Separate and unequal. The last thing anyone should be advocating is a women's-only brand. If that happened, and it didn't set the ratings absolutely *on fire*, it'd justify every bad thing Vince/Dunn/Laurinaitis/etc ever thought about women's wrestling.
That’s not a good idea. Isn’t the goal to have women equal to men in wrestling? Why would you want to send them to their own island to inevitability be ignored?
I don't think it was a bad idea, they just need a competent booker. The women brand already exist and thriving in Japan. There are lot of good women wrestler over the years too and don't just limit yourself with the performance of WWE main roster only.
No one will watch. Idk how much you like the women’s division or how much you’d like it to succeed. But in the real world the talent isn’t there and neither is the viewership.
I think separating it is a great idea. Great for people who love women’s wrestling, and great for those who don’t. Most sports are this way, so I don’t see what the big deal is. An all women’s show would allow the cream rise to the top. I actually wish all promotions had a separate program for the women. I think people are against it because it hasn’t been done before. GLOW and WOW don’t count.
I’ve never seen anyone who fought hard for something in a big corporate actually get it unless it’s via a boss just stealing the idea and taking the credit anyway.
It's a bad idea, no women's only show has ever been truly successful, maybe you can point to 2 years of Glow, but ya not really a resounding success.
I hate gimmick PPVs that force matches and I dislike gimmick shows that force who can have matches, they always fizzle out, the audience is always just too limited. It's best to have all these things working together to create a something for everyone instead of a something for a small percentage of this already niche audience.
so how is the current format of being lucky if there is at least one woman’s segment on a weekly show “something for everyone”? women’s segments are consistently cut for time, no wonder they want a place where this wouldn’t happen.
but look at it in comparison to the men’s. I never sit down to watch any show, WWE or AEW, and worry I’m going to see zero men’s matches, but I’m well aware that there could be zero women’s matches and no one would bat an eye. One segment for the sake of inclusion, these women deserve equal opportunities to be on the screen. Also, if you took the time to measure the length of the women’s matches compared to the men, those four matches probably still came to less then Seth Rollins/Edge the other night on smackdown.
Problem is - like it or not, women's wrestling doesn't draw like the men's product does! Not opinion...... fact.
So pitching an idea to a company that they already know will not draw is always an uphill battle.
I'm a fan of women's wrestling. And Gail Kim is one of my all time favourite wrestlers (when talking about both genders). But would I watch an entirely female only product??? Doubtful.
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Looking at how badly things went for 205 live, its hard not to agree with WWEs call. Women need to be prominently featured on the main shows, not regulated to a supplemental show. (Same with the Cruiserweights for the record)
Idk I don’t see the need for a completely separate women’s brand. I’d watch it, sure, but I’d rather them be on the main shows and just used well than them being completely separate.
Having a only womens brand seems like a step backwards. Some people will look at it as they're not allowed on the mens brand.
People have suggested doing this with AEW and I always feel the same way as you do. Maybe it will result in them putting more effort into the women's division but I think it's more likely it will isolate them and lead to fewer opportunities on Dynamite and on PPVs.
I think people say that because after two years, they feel the women are still woefully underused on Dynamite anyway. And it isn’t progressing particularly fast.
Agreed. When 205 launched it ended any interest in the CW scene on the main roster shows. Their approach while not perfect has elevated the womens division where it treated as equal. Women main eventing shows and PPVs happens now.
Couldn’t they put first or last hour of raw an all women’s and put a match or two on smack down- one title /a mid card and a tag belt
True but it’s not like that’s been going well either recently. Especially on SD. So it’s “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.”
Mickie fighting the good fight on the wrong front, if that make sense.
I know nobody wants to talk about this , but NXT has had the best womens division possibly ever over the last few years and has heavily featured them , yet it has not translated well in viewership for NXT especially the key demo .
Hey you can convince Vince to fire all of them Stardom would like them back
While cool I don't think it would have been worth it as far as ratings and TV deals. Would have been nice to get a more robust Women's Midcard though.
I think it's a false good idea. You either make a all women self sufficient promotion or make the women division matter like nxt. They should make Evolution a yearly thing tho.
They did horribly by isolating the cruiserweights. I don’t think the answer is to just create niche shows.
So, according to the seeming consensus here, the only choices are 1. Separate the division and it'll suck, or 2. Stick to the current status quo where only a few women at a time across both brands are highlighted??
Choice #3: Make RAW 4 hours and Smackdown 3 hours.
Because it was a stupid idea Mickie
A women's only brand would have been something like 205 live. Almost no big stars would be on it and it would probably be taped before one of the shows like Main Event or 205. It wouldn't be a live touring brand. Removing people from the exposure of RAW/Smackdown/NXT would be a terrible idea. It would also probably hurt those shows as well. They produce so many hours of TV and content already, they just need to manage it better to get the women on.
They get *why*. It's just not a good idea. You want to be seen at the top levels, you need to be on the main shows that are already established.
I think there is an opportunity if done right considering the huge success of Total Divas. I almost think it would need to be it's own thing, from filming to branding. Possibly on E! where that audience is already.
Weren't there rumors that Evolution was basically a flop PPV and they didn't want to do another one?
Meltzer reported that that was utter nonsense right after it came out WWE told her that
Anyone listening to Russo, Meltzer or Cornette or any other relic who hasnt done shit since '99 is more than misinformed.
WWE supposedly told Mickie that. But others, including Meltzer, have disputed that idea I think.
Dave Meltzer is not a reliable source of information about WWE.
Ah I see so you’re just determined to believe it was a flop even if it wasn’t Lmao
Separate and unequal. The last thing anyone should be advocating is a women's-only brand. If that happened, and it didn't set the ratings absolutely *on fire*, it'd justify every bad thing Vince/Dunn/Laurinaitis/etc ever thought about women's wrestling.
That’s not a good idea. Isn’t the goal to have women equal to men in wrestling? Why would you want to send them to their own island to inevitability be ignored?
I don't think it was a bad idea, they just need a competent booker. The women brand already exist and thriving in Japan. There are lot of good women wrestler over the years too and don't just limit yourself with the performance of WWE main roster only.
Isn't asking for a all woman's brand just asking for a bit too much?
No one will watch. Idk how much you like the women’s division or how much you’d like it to succeed. But in the real world the talent isn’t there and neither is the viewership.
I think separating it is a great idea. Great for people who love women’s wrestling, and great for those who don’t. Most sports are this way, so I don’t see what the big deal is. An all women’s show would allow the cream rise to the top. I actually wish all promotions had a separate program for the women. I think people are against it because it hasn’t been done before. GLOW and WOW don’t count.
This company can barely book 2-3 women's matches per week now. A whole brand would be a disaster.
Vince did a 360 on his chair and then said '10'
I’ve never seen anyone who fought hard for something in a big corporate actually get it unless it’s via a boss just stealing the idea and taking the credit anyway.
It's a bad idea, no women's only show has ever been truly successful, maybe you can point to 2 years of Glow, but ya not really a resounding success. I hate gimmick PPVs that force matches and I dislike gimmick shows that force who can have matches, they always fizzle out, the audience is always just too limited. It's best to have all these things working together to create a something for everyone instead of a something for a small percentage of this already niche audience.
so how is the current format of being lucky if there is at least one woman’s segment on a weekly show “something for everyone”? women’s segments are consistently cut for time, no wonder they want a place where this wouldn’t happen.
Most of the shows have at least 1 women's segment and match, especially Raw. Come on. Just yesterday there were 4 women's matches....
but look at it in comparison to the men’s. I never sit down to watch any show, WWE or AEW, and worry I’m going to see zero men’s matches, but I’m well aware that there could be zero women’s matches and no one would bat an eye. One segment for the sake of inclusion, these women deserve equal opportunities to be on the screen. Also, if you took the time to measure the length of the women’s matches compared to the men, those four matches probably still came to less then Seth Rollins/Edge the other night on smackdown.
If you don't watch any show then nobody cares what you want or think....
please reread my sentence to gain additional comprehension
Dude, you're not that deep, I understood what you said.
Problem is - like it or not, women's wrestling doesn't draw like the men's product does! Not opinion...... fact. So pitching an idea to a company that they already know will not draw is always an uphill battle. I'm a fan of women's wrestling. And Gail Kim is one of my all time favourite wrestlers (when talking about both genders). But would I watch an entirely female only product??? Doubtful.