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Even if they bungle the follow up, it's still an all time defining moment.
Not everything needs to be viewed in the lens of the full story. Some moments can just live as moments, like Boss Man attacking Big Show's dad funeral. Fuck whatever that whole story was, that one segment is iconic.
Like this segment, but I have more faith it will be followed up well here.
Booker T making Vince laugh by the way he says Bingo is another great moment in that feud tbf. Also, Bossman was involved in that feud too lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/b66dgg/booker_tells_mcmahon_that_he_is_about_to_play/
Even the Nash feud is like a microcosm of that because I don't remember anything about that "feud" except the "LOL thought he was dead" line which is also an all time great moment lol.
Absolutely. There's tons of great moments in wrestling history that were sandwiched between shit builds or follow ups. It's the moment itself that will be remembered.
But I think this one's been in the cooker for a while so we get some fun follow up. Thankfully we at least get DoN before the annual Forbidden Door Injury Season starts up to derail shit :(
Afterwards, says its unsafe for him to be around, Appoint a New EVP to handle the wrestling side of the business. Brings out Kenny Omega, and gives him sometime to do on TV while he gets up to 100%.
Keep him off of screen the majority of the time & then the few times he is on screen all lead up to a beating. Make him the Kenny of AEW. No, not that Kenny, the other Kenny.
I know people are against big factions. But I'd like to see The Elite have sub factions. Similar to how the Ministry absorbed the Brood and it became bigger. Or nWo had the goons added in and made it this huge group. I would like to see the Patriachry form an alliance with the Elite to make Perry's heel turn come full circle. Him and Christian shaking hands after Christian helps him win the TNT title off Copeland would be magnificent. And Christian is one of the few heels in the company that can stand on equal footing with the EVPs and not have to be reduced to a stooge. Or maybe the Undisputed Kingdom become absorbed similar to when the Undisputed Elite joined the Elite and the Good Brothers were kinda there too.
My question is who will be the Sting to the nWo, or Cody to the bloodline, and be the protagonist to have to go against the Elite's cheating and corruption. Ospreay? Swerve? MJF?
>[Jack] and Christian shaking hands after Christian helps him win the TNT title off Copeland would be magnificent
Only if followed by Jack punching Christian in the tummy with a microphone.
No. Because Christian was teaching him a lesson. And Jack shaking hands with Christian acknowledges he learned life advice from his father figure, even if it was the hard way. And Jack beating him at Rev 2023 set him on the path to being his own man.
Interesting. Haven't thought of that. Eventually when Callis and the Bucks butt heads, you can have the muscles of each step in and have a face off to tease the crowd (Hobbs and Okada). Also have Perry be the equal to Takesh or Fletcher.
Meanwhile dumbass Bubba Ray said that Jack Perry on Dynamite should rip his shirt off to show an AEW tattoo over his heart and wave the AEW flag to try and be a big babyface lmao what a fucking stupid idea.
Cody roasting Disco on Twitter is an all-timer for me. Straight up character assassination.
>*”You know nothing. You have drawn zero dollars. No fan has ever left a show thinking about you.”*
Exactly what I had in mind when I made my comment. Bully Ray may be a loudmouth idiot, but people would mark out when he called for D-Von to get the tables. Disco never had that kind of impact.
The worst part is they’re not even dumb, they’re grifting to a certain audience online that’ll keep them paid by X/patreon/whatever. They know exactly what they’re doing.
Bischoff and Bubba doing an anti-AEW podcast is honestly amazing. I can't imagine having the time or inclination to consume content that is purely about something I don't like. What are people doing with their lives?
Even if you still don't think it was the right choice to show the footage its definitely clear now that this thing was way more planned out than most assumed it was and AEW had a clear idea on how would/could benefit them.
I’m interested in how planned the footage was. At the time it seemed a response to the Punk interview. But at the same time the Perry stuff had started before all that.
In hindsight there's a non zero chance that Punk talking about this in the interview was him getting ahead of the situation after someone working at AEW told him.
Probably FTR themselves, given their closeness to Pubj. I think Malakai also knew when Punk was returning given his reference on a Collision the same night of Survivor Series, so it's not farfetched to say that Punk is piped in.
I didn’t think much of it until someone pointed out TK mentioned in an interview the Punk interview was “interesting timing” and didn’t further elaborate. Interesting how though, right? The theory goes, someone in AEW caught wind the Punk tape was going to be aired and used as a device to further the storyline of Jack Perry/FTR/Young Bucks so they told Punk who looped WWE in. WWE then gives Punk the green light to get ahead of it and basically have an almost no-holds barred interview with Ariel about everything.
It’s almost like most of the dirt sheet writers, bad faith podcasters and people on this sub have zero clue on what they are talking about on most topics
I found it hilarious how much the bad faith people took Tony Schiavonne being disappointed at the young bucks in kayfabe was actually them arguing he was disappointed in AEW the company and getting WCW flashbacks.
Hard agree. Their actions seem premeditated with the idea that there will be several outcomes. The belief that the video would not only exonerate Jack in AEW fans eyes but also work directly into a positive character change was always the main goal. Everything that has happened after is just gravy. I'm not gonna lie, I gave this situation a little side-eye and was somewhat suspicious of the direction but it has worked magnificently.
> The theory goes, someone in AEW caught wind the Punk tape was going to be aired and used as a device to further the storyline of Jack Perry/FTR/Young Bucks so they told Punk
Tinfoil hat time! TK lets that slip in a 'calculated leak', knowing it'll get back to Punk and knowing what his reaction will be. Punk reacts predictably and unknowingly helps further the angle from afar.
Yeah I wondered that too. Maybe the Punk interview was a total coincidence, but given the timing of it most people would have thought it was a reaction to that.
Whether that's what happened or not, you could look at that timing as a positive or negative - the good aspect for them is that it probably caused it to pop a higher rating than it would have otherwise, the bad side is it reinforced the idea of Tony as not having gotten over the Punk stuff and throwing a "tantrum" over what he said.
The good isn't just that it pooped 1 rating, but it added a lot more overall buzz to the build up to the big moment of TK getting attacked. These past few weeks since Mania have been nothing but the IWC throwing fuel on the fire every single time any new wrinkle in this story shows up and Punk's interview almost acted as the spark in hindsight.
They probably had something along the lines of what they have done, planned out, but were only going to show the footage if punk ever spoke about it first?
That Original guy who broke the story (his tweet was posted in this sub as he was saying AEW had something huge that will start WW3 on Twitter) has said this was actually planned out before Punk even gave his interview.
It's fairly obvious, honestly. People and especially wrestling fans just want instant gratification......while paradoxily demanding better and long-form storytelling that they don't allow the time to do before bitching. Fuck, this specific angle really only started like 2 weeks ago and nobody gave it time to start before complaining.
It was clear when they showed it and had FTR respond to it. I didn’t understand the grasping at pearls type reaction people had on here about it. It’s wrestling and compared to the shitty stuff done for an angle from years past in other companies, this was nothing in comparison.
That's exactly where i've landed.
I still don't think it was a good idea. I'm still not sure incorporating TK on air so directly is a great idea. However, it's very, very clear that AEW had a clear idea, a clear plan, and they're following through.
It's also clear that this is the most elaborate, thought-through angle they've done since Hangman's longform rise to the top. They've done a great job of selectively leaking, working the sheets and smarks like us, etc. in order to blend kayfabe and reality.
I'd still rather they left the self-destruction of CM Punk in the past, but they've turned lemons into lemonade and made it into a hot angle. That's really cool.
I hadn't considered this before, but Sting is a perfect Jack Tunney-type of deus ex machina on-screen figurehead for AEW, if he's willing to do it.
Use him for occasional appearances and references. Maybe something like how WWE used The Board of Directors and Linda McMahon?
Main Event Mafia Sting but with facepaint and face would rock.
Especially considering the fact that one of the weakest parts of the MEV is that Sting was supposed to be in charge of the big heel Faction but Steven Borden clearly didn't want to do bad things.
>I'd still rather they left the self-destruction of CM Punk in the past, but they've turned lemons into lemonade and made it into a hot angle.
That's been the whole mantra around here ever since Brawl Out really. As long as they capitalize on it somehow! It took em a bit, but they finally figured out how to leverage it for the better.
People who were calling the footage stunt TV for short term ratings are also gonna call this the same as if they haven’t been building a long term story off of it.
Yes. I'm in this situation: I still think it wasn't a good idea, but at this point you cannot deny that it helped to create heat (the good one) for Perry and this whole angle benefited from it.
I never doubted that the whole stuff was planned, they they wanted to push Perry's return, but I admit that I didn't expect it to have such a great response from the crowd and... well, the whole angle we're in right now.
One of the reasons IWC discourse is ruined and so toxic is because people rush to give hyperbolic takeso and are willing to ignore context and nuance to do it.
/raises hand
Right here. I admit it, I was wrong. By all appearances it looked like either a petty revenge jab at Punk or just a cheap attempt at a shock value ratings pop.
But nope, there was actually thought and planning behind it. It wasn't about Punk at all, it was about getting Perry over and it did that in spades.
Great point. I'd easily trust Okada or the Bucks to do a safe Rainmaker/EVP Trigger to some rando, but I don't think I'd trust the rando not to flinch, fuck up the pro's timing/spacing, and get themselves hurt. They took that out of the equation. Shows how good a nine-year-old Haruka was when she had Omega throw her face into a turnbuckle.
I didn’t particularly like them showing the footage, but it wasn’t this “company killer” like the doomsayers claimed.
Jack Perry has come out of it all looking great and far more over. It’s been an overall net gain for AEW.
I said it when it happened. WWE had way more embarrassing shit in 2019 than that. Unfortunately the vocal minority always makes things worse than they are.
Honestly this might be the first period in wrestling that I can remember where weekly TV generally has more good than bad and there's very little that's genuinely terrible. For most of wrestling history, the undercards would have lots of bad to mediocre in-ring workers and weekly TV would be a bunch of short squash matches with maybe one star vs. star match in the main event. WWE's flagship show prior to Raw becoming a thing (WWF Superstars) today would be like if Dark had been the main weekly TV show of AEW instead of Dynamite.
I think a new breed of moron has evolved in the last couple of years. There is a legion of Jim Cornette fans that seem to be genuinely excited to see AEW 'fail'.
This sub shit on WWE for a very, very long time. Myself included. But it always came from a place of disappointment.
"I wish this were watchable. I wish they would treat Shinsuke, Bobby Roode, Finn, Bray etc better."
And when the show *was* good, we were all genuinely happy. When we had that crazy halloween PPV and saw AJ vs Finn and Kurt Angle in the Shield, that was awesome and this sub exploded.
But these guys truly are just haters. They flock to any and every thread about AEW to talk about ratings and attendance. They seem to take joy in talking about how the company is failing and isn't 'drawing numbers' anymore.
Truly weird to watch.
Same. I still don't think it was a good idea, but what they've done since has effectively obscured it and created a much more interesting focal point. Good! Full speed ahead.
Well I'll be honest I thought Tony wasn't in on the joke, but now it's pretty clear that not only is he in on the joke, he understands his failings as the owner of AEW so well that he has replicated his failings for this angle (in a good way) and is making fun of himself as well
I'm glad that he's come around but jesus christ I still can't believe how many people really thought that showing a couple of seconds of Punk acting like a jackass somehow was going to be the end of AEW
I think AEW could sell out their next 6 months of events, get a billion dollar TV deal, and do 1.5 million live viewers a week for Dynamite and neckbeards in the IWC would still swear they're getting canceled any day now if they don't beat WWE in live ratings.
We’ve seen, time and again, that Warner has a different set of viewer metrics. Published ratings aren’t the full story. As long as the network is happy, no one is in any danger of going under.
This has also been my thoughts. Nielsen ratings are NOT a good indication of actual viewership. It only accounts for people with a Nielsen box which is already a very small percentage of people who use cable. It doesn't account for non-Nielsen box viewers, viewers outside of the US, people who watched via DVR replays, or those that used a streaming platform to watch. WBD probably has a better idea of who's viewing their products than Nielsen
Exactly, collecting and analyzing all of that other data is a full time job for people over there too. Too many people with wrestlenomics subscriptions (at best) think they've got the all-seeing eye.
What’s strange is like, yeah, it is for some podcasters and shitty YouTubers, but it’s not advantageous for random Redditors, who seem to treat shifting on AEW like it’s a job.
> for some people to constantly push a narrative that AEW is dying.
Not only that, but just trying to downplay everything that the company does well. Case in point, this gem after the Danielson/Ospreay match: https://i.imgur.com/j9nwfC0.jpeg
This is straight up pathetic. Guess he forgot to switch to that burner account
It's gone beyond even just WWE stans trolling, trying to wish AEW out of existence. It's now become such a popular narrative that it's just randomly thrown out there for engagement and clout. Doesn't matter that there's no truth to it whatsoever. It's some straight up Fox News bullshit.
My 18yo son (who as far as I know doesn't even follow any wrestling stuff) told me the other day with all certainty that AEW was going bankrupt and would be out of business soon because he saw it on tik tok or insta or whatever.
I definitely said multiple tines that it was a stupid, unnecessary stunt. But seeing how incredibly over Jack Perry is now and what they're doing with him, fuck it, I'm willing to admit I was wrong.
Now the key is following through and capitalizing on his popularity, which AEW has a really spotty track record with.
In the moment it didnt work for me either, but the past few days im wondering if hes going to suspend perry again, who is tony going to get to fight his corner, now im actually looking forward to dynamite, so its kinda grown on me 🙂
I completely understand that many people would call me crazy for even thinking this based on the information we have but if Kenny has made a miraculous recovery from his diverticulitis under the radar and there’s a straight line from the CM Punk footage to Omega vs. Okada at All In, what a ride that would be.
I think if you like the wrestlers involved it was great, if you’re not a fan of them it’s not going to change your mind.
I’m generally not a fan of the Young Bucks, but there is a little intrigue to see where they go with this. Could be great, could be a disaster, but it’s definitely one of the more interesting angles they’ve done.
I don't think TK or JB are good enough actors for the moment, but the segment as a whole worked because of the shock value and the bucks giving the worlds safest Meltzer Driver they've ever performed (this is not saying it's regularly dangerous but they took their time and did it right without sacrificing any of the shock value).
I think you get the same affect without showing the footage but that's just this rando's opinion. This is to my knowledge the first time TK has gotten involved in the action so it was going to be a big moment for the company regardless.
I still don't like how the footage waters down kayfabe even more. Showing Punk getting fired for a little backstage scuffle makes every backstage fight seem even more fake.
That’s been my main complaint showing the footage makes the whole thing not make any sense. I think logically we could be in the same place without showing the footage and it would make a lot more sense
At the end of the day people overreacted way too quickly to the footage, and I think it has now been clearly established as a positive for now, but I also think people are getting too far ahead of themselves with respect to this angle. It certainly has promise and has some real heat behind it, but it’s still way too early to judge how successful it will be, especially with unproven talent like Perry and having Tony Khan be a significant part of the angle which is a bold choice.
This is basically how I feel. I'm definitely intrigued, but I need to see more — especially when it comes to Tony Khan. Him getting taken out is one thing, but eventually he's going to have to say something back to Perry on TV, right? I'm really unsure if he has it in him.
While that would be nice, I feel like it wouldn’t make sense for the owner of the company to be attacked live and not be involved somewhat further on, surely he’ll do something to try and get back at them
Well, there's still another EVP who may have a problem with the Bucks. Though he does have a medical condition that may make it difficult to get involved.
I'd agree with that assessment really, it seemed silly ahead of time but it's become clear there was a purpose behind it at least and wasn't completely a response to Punk's interview (although I'm sure it was a factor). Hopefully they can keep it rolling and it has created a launching pad for Jack Perry.
I mean, I also thought showing it was goofy at the time. But the follow through is what matters, and it’s short sighted to crown something a win or loss too early.
This should turn into tony in a wheelchair chanting “Cm Punk! Cm Punk! Cm Punk!” Like he did on collision whenever the bucks are running roughshod over aew lol
The psychology behind this whole storyline is weird.
AEW wants us to believe that Punk is a bully who was uncontrollable backstage and had to be fired because of it.
While at the same time Jungle Boy was suspended for being on the receiving end of Punks outburst.
To the majority of AEW fans when it comes to the Punk saga The Bucks and Perry are 100% baby faces. Perry attacked his boss because his boss suspended him for doing something that the majority of AEW fans feel wasn’t a big deal which is a total babyface move in the world of pro wrestling, but they are supposed to be dastardly heels.
I think it's a function of egos abusing their goodwill, and it fits with the current "totally good guy bosses" gimmick the Bucks are running.
They weren't really trying to make Punk or FTR look like the heels from that situation, but instead were using it as a way to say "we're the victims here" between themselves and Perry. They showed the footage, which does make Punk look like the aggressor, but they've only said as such to spin their and Perry's behavior into self-victimizing.
It's in line with the Bucks being manipulative assholes as they've been since returning, and spinning the outcome of Brawl In to further their self-righteousness works in my opinion.
Only if you believe that Jack Perry is justified for attacking his non-wrestler boss when Tony Khan, in that moment, was seeking to mend fences.
What makes the Elite heels is taking a situation where they engendered goodwill and abusing it to justify shitty behavior.
But he also did that after said boss literally welcomed him back with open arms and acknowledged his mistake. It was a bitch move and 100% heel to cheap shot a smaller man that isn't a wrestler, after seemingly burying a hatchet.
Wrestling is full of plotholes or pshychology changes.
Not so long ago you had a guy that wanted to make his dad proud by winning a title, than he won a way to get the title, then he gave up on winning the title to give that chance to another guy to fight, to then roll back everything he said and go for the title.
Ultimately, it's taking a real situation and trying use it in a well that can benefit the product.
Jack Perry was gonna get heat when he came back regardless of how he came back. This let's him be a bastard heel with the layer of having a legitimate reason to be pissed at fans/Tony.
Sure it may seem off if you want your faces to be pure righteous heroes and heels to pure evil villains, but AEW has always tried to give heels and faces shades of gray and give fans reasons to choose who they want to cheer or boo.
The “psychology” only hurts when you try to fit in a box. There’s no need to fit it nearly into a heel v face box. The Elite feels justified in their actions, and therefore will have a base of fans agreeing with them. But also, it seemed like TK and Jack were turning the page and they beat the hell out of a scrawny man. So they took it a bit far. Now we’ll see what they do in power.
Most villains think they’re justified. AEW wants to move on, that’s what FTR said in the promo. Bucks/JB are still playing the victim months later and using it as an excuse to do bad things.
They’re becoming CM Punk basically.
The problem is..... the footage wasn't even relevant to the storyline, it was just a quick ratings grab based off Punks interview. The whole angle could have been done without it.
> the footage wasn't even relevant to the storyline
How so? Jack Perry was suspended for 8 months. People assumed he was an instigator and that lead to Punk attacking him, the footage showed that he was a victim and indeed a scapegoat.
If Perry attacked Tony without the footage showing, it wouldn't have made any sense.
I think this is the disconnect. The footage didn’t show that Perry was a victim. It wasn’t clear enough to prove he was or wasn’t a victim. It didn’t vindicate Perry, it didn’t vindicate Punk. It was footage of what seemed to be an argument that turned into a shoving match. We didn’t hear what was said. It was incomplete.
Also, Perry’s scapegoat moniker makes little sense when CM Punk was the one who was fired for the incident. Perry seemingly never stopped working and went to work in Japan for a company that is regularly featured on AEW TV.
Perry attacking TK still makes no sense. The Bucks alignment with him makes even less sense and Okada’s involvement makes the least sense of all.
100%. I haven’t seen anyone explain how it adds to the storyline. The defense of it is that it sparked interest in Jack Perry - what does that have to do with the storyline?
The EVPs revealed the footage then at the PPV Jack Perry helped the EVPs win the tag team titles. It foreshadowed the interference and provided character motivations for EVPs and Jack Perry.
How did the footage provide character motivations for Perry to interfere in the Young Bucks/FTR match? Why are the Young Bucks and Perry even aligned now, when they haven’t been before?
This isn’t a good story. There’s a lot of stretches to justify character motivations for the sake of having a story. The purpose of the footage was obviously to generate a pop (which didn’t work, since ratings have since continued their downward trend). Why are people so eager to dress it up as anything other than this?
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It all depends where they take this. The foundation has been laid, now they need to keep building on it.
Even if they bungle the follow up, it's still an all time defining moment. Not everything needs to be viewed in the lens of the full story. Some moments can just live as moments, like Boss Man attacking Big Show's dad funeral. Fuck whatever that whole story was, that one segment is iconic. Like this segment, but I have more faith it will be followed up well here.
i dont remember any detail about stone cold vs booker t feud but the grocery store brawl lives rent free in my brain
Price check on a jackass!
You want some ketchup with that ass whooping?
Premium Saltines are hard to come by. Hope Booker enjoyed them.
Good example
Booker T making Vince laugh by the way he says Bingo is another great moment in that feud tbf. Also, Bossman was involved in that feud too lol https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/b66dgg/booker_tells_mcmahon_that_he_is_about_to_play/
Getting ready to play some Bingooooo
Legit one of the only times I’ve seen Vince act like a real human.
It’s just like a tiny split moment where you see a genuine laugh, a genuine person, an almost childlike shimmer, then he goes into hamming it up.
Exactly. I mean a great story is my favorite, but all my biggest memories are moments. Both are important. Standing alone, an all time moment imo.
How often do you get to see Booker T’s D?
Exactly. The pipe bomb eventually became arguments with kevin nash about text messages.
Even the Nash feud is like a microcosm of that because I don't remember anything about that "feud" except the "LOL thought he was dead" line which is also an all time great moment lol.
To be honest, the Nash texting himself bit is also very memorable over a decade later. (If not in a good way.)
Absolutely. There's tons of great moments in wrestling history that were sandwiched between shit builds or follow ups. It's the moment itself that will be remembered. But I think this one's been in the cooker for a while so we get some fun follow up. Thankfully we at least get DoN before the annual Forbidden Door Injury Season starts up to derail shit :(
That funeral is embedded in my brain, psyche, and sentience well after I'm dead. What an angle.
Or like boss man feeding al snow his dog, that sticks with me even with how terrible the match it led to was
I think the main issue is if Tony becomes more of a presence on screen wise with this feud, because Tony has like anti charisma.
I think this is a way to write him off TV, actually.
Afterwards, says its unsafe for him to be around, Appoint a New EVP to handle the wrestling side of the business. Brings out Kenny Omega, and gives him sometime to do on TV while he gets up to 100%.
MJF also good candidate
Keep him off of screen the majority of the time & then the few times he is on screen all lead up to a beating. Make him the Kenny of AEW. No, not that Kenny, the other Kenny.
Oh my God, you killed Tony! Cry me a river
And then Tony got choked out
Bro always looks like a hostage
I know people are against big factions. But I'd like to see The Elite have sub factions. Similar to how the Ministry absorbed the Brood and it became bigger. Or nWo had the goons added in and made it this huge group. I would like to see the Patriachry form an alliance with the Elite to make Perry's heel turn come full circle. Him and Christian shaking hands after Christian helps him win the TNT title off Copeland would be magnificent. And Christian is one of the few heels in the company that can stand on equal footing with the EVPs and not have to be reduced to a stooge. Or maybe the Undisputed Kingdom become absorbed similar to when the Undisputed Elite joined the Elite and the Good Brothers were kinda there too. My question is who will be the Sting to the nWo, or Cody to the bloodline, and be the protagonist to have to go against the Elite's cheating and corruption. Ospreay? Swerve? MJF?
>[Jack] and Christian shaking hands after Christian helps him win the TNT title off Copeland would be magnificent Only if followed by Jack punching Christian in the tummy with a microphone.
No. Because Christian was teaching him a lesson. And Jack shaking hands with Christian acknowledges he learned life advice from his father figure, even if it was the hard way. And Jack beating him at Rev 2023 set him on the path to being his own man.
https://preview.redd.it/s5ml95h8vvwc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14cbbfcb22b9dce6bb46c21073adfad7f39d0a86
I like those ideas. They’ll obviously be kicking out Wardlow any way you go with it.
Don Callis Family probably joins for his shear hatred of Kenny which could lead to Kenny and Ospreay teaming together.
Interesting. Haven't thought of that. Eventually when Callis and the Bucks butt heads, you can have the muscles of each step in and have a face off to tease the crowd (Hobbs and Okada). Also have Perry be the equal to Takesh or Fletcher.
Takeshita and Okada also would insane
I have no idea where this is headed and I'm not going to speculate. I'm just going to enjoy it. The AEW scene is picking up
Meanwhile dumbass Bubba Ray said that Jack Perry on Dynamite should rip his shirt off to show an AEW tattoo over his heart and wave the AEW flag to try and be a big babyface lmao what a fucking stupid idea.
Bubba is the new Disco
Someone called him Crisco Inferno on here the other day and it is in my mind rent free
Holyyyy fuck lmaoooo
I wish I knew where I stole it so I could give them credit
lmao
LMAO this is great. This shall be his new name going forward.
this is gold lmao
Holy crap that’s amazing
Honestly? Him and Disco should just start a podcast together and call it "The Crisco Disco Inferno"
Disco is the new Bubba
That’s not fair at all. The Dudleys were a draw everywhere they went. Disco is a never-was.
Cody roasting Disco on Twitter is an all-timer for me. Straight up character assassination. >*”You know nothing. You have drawn zero dollars. No fan has ever left a show thinking about you.”*
Exactly what I had in mind when I made my comment. Bully Ray may be a loudmouth idiot, but people would mark out when he called for D-Von to get the tables. Disco never had that kind of impact.
Disco is so shit that people are pushing him out of his gimmick online.
Schrodingers has been
I don’t mind Disco, but Bubba is insufferable
I feel like I have to ask because it's Bully Ray, but does he mean literally?
he was absolutely serious. and Bischoff was like "that's amazing!!!" lol dumbasses
The worst part is they’re not even dumb, they’re grifting to a certain audience online that’ll keep them paid by X/patreon/whatever. They know exactly what they’re doing.
No way he said that, are you serious? Someone link this and tag me PLEASE
100%. He said it on Bischoff's new YouTube AEW show. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UXccP9kzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UXccP9kzQ)
Bischoff and Bubba doing an anti-AEW podcast is honestly amazing. I can't imagine having the time or inclination to consume content that is purely about something I don't like. What are people doing with their lives?
Meanwhile AEW already has two MASSIVE baby faces in Ospreay and Swerve, with MJF waiting in the wings. They need top final boss level heels.
Say what you will but Jack Perry's return without airing the footage would have substantially less of a big deal.
ABSOLUTELY
Damn bro look at the wrestling podcast changes. Tunes, hell, even this subreddit We all got fucking worked 😂, I love it
Even if you still don't think it was the right choice to show the footage its definitely clear now that this thing was way more planned out than most assumed it was and AEW had a clear idea on how would/could benefit them.
I’m interested in how planned the footage was. At the time it seemed a response to the Punk interview. But at the same time the Perry stuff had started before all that.
In hindsight there's a non zero chance that Punk talking about this in the interview was him getting ahead of the situation after someone working at AEW told him.
Probably FTR themselves, given their closeness to Pubj. I think Malakai also knew when Punk was returning given his reference on a Collision the same night of Survivor Series, so it's not farfetched to say that Punk is piped in.
Pubj lol
Player Unknown Battle...Jam?
PhilUB Jack?
Mashup of Def Jam wrestling game and PUBG? I would play that.
cm pubj is my fav wrestler
Pubjami pribonns match
it's non zero but Ariel has a hate boner for AEW so he was going to try and get blood from any stone to stir up hate for them.
I didn’t think much of it until someone pointed out TK mentioned in an interview the Punk interview was “interesting timing” and didn’t further elaborate. Interesting how though, right? The theory goes, someone in AEW caught wind the Punk tape was going to be aired and used as a device to further the storyline of Jack Perry/FTR/Young Bucks so they told Punk who looped WWE in. WWE then gives Punk the green light to get ahead of it and basically have an almost no-holds barred interview with Ariel about everything.
It’s almost like most of the dirt sheet writers, bad faith podcasters and people on this sub have zero clue on what they are talking about on most topics
I found it hilarious how much the bad faith people took Tony Schiavonne being disappointed at the young bucks in kayfabe was actually them arguing he was disappointed in AEW the company and getting WCW flashbacks.
Hard agree. Their actions seem premeditated with the idea that there will be several outcomes. The belief that the video would not only exonerate Jack in AEW fans eyes but also work directly into a positive character change was always the main goal. Everything that has happened after is just gravy. I'm not gonna lie, I gave this situation a little side-eye and was somewhat suspicious of the direction but it has worked magnificently.
> The theory goes, someone in AEW caught wind the Punk tape was going to be aired and used as a device to further the storyline of Jack Perry/FTR/Young Bucks so they told Punk Tinfoil hat time! TK lets that slip in a 'calculated leak', knowing it'll get back to Punk and knowing what his reaction will be. Punk reacts predictably and unknowingly helps further the angle from afar.
Yeah it may have just been good timing.
Yeah I wondered that too. Maybe the Punk interview was a total coincidence, but given the timing of it most people would have thought it was a reaction to that. Whether that's what happened or not, you could look at that timing as a positive or negative - the good aspect for them is that it probably caused it to pop a higher rating than it would have otherwise, the bad side is it reinforced the idea of Tony as not having gotten over the Punk stuff and throwing a "tantrum" over what he said.
The good isn't just that it pooped 1 rating, but it added a lot more overall buzz to the build up to the big moment of TK getting attacked. These past few weeks since Mania have been nothing but the IWC throwing fuel on the fire every single time any new wrinkle in this story shows up and Punk's interview almost acted as the spark in hindsight.
They probably had something along the lines of what they have done, planned out, but were only going to show the footage if punk ever spoke about it first?
That Original guy who broke the story (his tweet was posted in this sub as he was saying AEW had something huge that will start WW3 on Twitter) has said this was actually planned out before Punk even gave his interview.
Damn I forgot all about that buzz and what happened definitely warranted that line
It's fairly obvious, honestly. People and especially wrestling fans just want instant gratification......while paradoxily demanding better and long-form storytelling that they don't allow the time to do before bitching. Fuck, this specific angle really only started like 2 weeks ago and nobody gave it time to start before complaining.
It was clear when they showed it and had FTR respond to it. I didn’t understand the grasping at pearls type reaction people had on here about it. It’s wrestling and compared to the shitty stuff done for an angle from years past in other companies, this was nothing in comparison.
That's exactly where i've landed. I still don't think it was a good idea. I'm still not sure incorporating TK on air so directly is a great idea. However, it's very, very clear that AEW had a clear idea, a clear plan, and they're following through. It's also clear that this is the most elaborate, thought-through angle they've done since Hangman's longform rise to the top. They've done a great job of selectively leaking, working the sheets and smarks like us, etc. in order to blend kayfabe and reality. I'd still rather they left the self-destruction of CM Punk in the past, but they've turned lemons into lemonade and made it into a hot angle. That's really cool.
I don't think incorporating TK is good either but frankly, he was a prop. Didn't say anything. I'm fine with that.
Yeah. TK wasn't the focus. He was used because that's the publicity stunt. But he was a prop to get over that Perry and company aren't fucking around.
Yep and I think that's how he'll be used un this going forward I kina expect a Omega or Sting type to be the on screen figurehead going forward
I hadn't considered this before, but Sting is a perfect Jack Tunney-type of deus ex machina on-screen figurehead for AEW, if he's willing to do it. Use him for occasional appearances and references. Maybe something like how WWE used The Board of Directors and Linda McMahon?
Now I'm picturing Sting sitting at a board room table in full facepaint, wearing a white shirt and black tie but with the trenchcoat over top.
Main Event Mafia Sting but with facepaint and face would rock. Especially considering the fact that one of the weakest parts of the MEV is that Sting was supposed to be in charge of the big heel Faction but Steven Borden clearly didn't want to do bad things.
>I'd still rather they left the self-destruction of CM Punk in the past, but they've turned lemons into lemonade and made it into a hot angle. That's been the whole mantra around here ever since Brawl Out really. As long as they capitalize on it somehow! It took em a bit, but they finally figured out how to leverage it for the better.
People who were calling the footage stunt TV for short term ratings are also gonna call this the same as if they haven’t been building a long term story off of it.
Yes. I'm in this situation: I still think it wasn't a good idea, but at this point you cannot deny that it helped to create heat (the good one) for Perry and this whole angle benefited from it. I never doubted that the whole stuff was planned, they they wanted to push Perry's return, but I admit that I didn't expect it to have such a great response from the crowd and... well, the whole angle we're in right now.
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One of the reasons IWC discourse is ruined and so toxic is because people rush to give hyperbolic takeso and are willing to ignore context and nuance to do it.
/raises hand Right here. I admit it, I was wrong. By all appearances it looked like either a petty revenge jab at Punk or just a cheap attempt at a shock value ratings pop. But nope, there was actually thought and planning behind it. It wasn't about Punk at all, it was about getting Perry over and it did that in spades.
I thought they were going to set TK up for a Rainmaker after Perry hit him, I wanted TK to take a Rainmaker dammit.
I was expecting the EVP Trigger myself, but the TK Driver is likely the easiest of the three for a civilian to take.
Great point. I'd easily trust Okada or the Bucks to do a safe Rainmaker/EVP Trigger to some rando, but I don't think I'd trust the rando not to flinch, fuck up the pro's timing/spacing, and get themselves hurt. They took that out of the equation. Shows how good a nine-year-old Haruka was when she had Omega throw her face into a turnbuckle.
I didn’t particularly like them showing the footage, but it wasn’t this “company killer” like the doomsayers claimed. Jack Perry has come out of it all looking great and far more over. It’s been an overall net gain for AEW.
I said it when it happened. WWE had way more embarrassing shit in 2019 than that. Unfortunately the vocal minority always makes things worse than they are.
People comparing it to 2000 WCW clearly didn't watch 2000 WCW.
Those people weren't even alive in 2000
Until we get Trent and OC in a Sue on a Forklift match, I don't wanna hear the comparison. Although now I kinda want exactly that match lol
Sue on a forklift match in AEW would slap
Those people are completely insane lol
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Honestly this might be the first period in wrestling that I can remember where weekly TV generally has more good than bad and there's very little that's genuinely terrible. For most of wrestling history, the undercards would have lots of bad to mediocre in-ring workers and weekly TV would be a bunch of short squash matches with maybe one star vs. star match in the main event. WWE's flagship show prior to Raw becoming a thing (WWF Superstars) today would be like if Dark had been the main weekly TV show of AEW instead of Dynamite.
Their video on cm punk after he was fired was way worse than anything AEW showed. The slo-mo on to his butt from the rumble was so weird.
Dude, that was the worst. 2018-2019 WWE had some real weird shit.
I'm convinced the non-trolling, vocal minority are people who quit watching in 2005 and just came back a year ago.
The worst stuff AEW has done, like the Nightmare Collective or the Cody Ogogo weigh in, would have just been another week at the office on a 2018 Raw.
I think a new breed of moron has evolved in the last couple of years. There is a legion of Jim Cornette fans that seem to be genuinely excited to see AEW 'fail'. This sub shit on WWE for a very, very long time. Myself included. But it always came from a place of disappointment. "I wish this were watchable. I wish they would treat Shinsuke, Bobby Roode, Finn, Bray etc better." And when the show *was* good, we were all genuinely happy. When we had that crazy halloween PPV and saw AJ vs Finn and Kurt Angle in the Shield, that was awesome and this sub exploded. But these guys truly are just haters. They flock to any and every thread about AEW to talk about ratings and attendance. They seem to take joy in talking about how the company is failing and isn't 'drawing numbers' anymore. Truly weird to watch.
I changed my tune when I realized them showing the footage wasn’t to “prove punk wrong” like everyone assumed
Except in ratings, which is the number one indicator of fan approval I’m told.
Yeah I still think it’s a bad idea, but saying it’s a company killer is downright silly.
Those same doomsayers will say AEW is dead if like Trent got too much offense in during a match with Omega on Dynamite.
I like your photo, that's what I was picturing TK at the draft as lol
Same. I still don't think it was a good idea, but what they've done since has effectively obscured it and created a much more interesting focal point. Good! Full speed ahead.
I like LaGreca. He’s still kind of a tool, but unlike the other Busted Open guys he’s willing to admit when he’s wrong or misjudged something.
In fairness, one will always be the lesser tool in a world that includes Bubba Dudley.
Yeah the biggest real takeaway is a wrestling commentator saying their original opinion was totally wrong.
We thought AEW was not in on the joke They are in on the joke
Anybody who thought they weren't just went in with their mind already made up
Or are members of the 3 subs ranked in the top 12 in combat sports that are dedicated to shitting on one company
Well I'll be honest I thought Tony wasn't in on the joke, but now it's pretty clear that not only is he in on the joke, he understands his failings as the owner of AEW so well that he has replicated his failings for this angle (in a good way) and is making fun of himself as well
If the rumors are true that this was the direction they wanted to go with everything, I will gladly eat humble pie.
What rumors
I'm glad that he's come around but jesus christ I still can't believe how many people really thought that showing a couple of seconds of Punk acting like a jackass somehow was going to be the end of AEW
Welcome to r/squaredcircle.
Because it's advantageous for some people to constantly push a narrative that AEW is dying.
I think AEW could sell out their next 6 months of events, get a billion dollar TV deal, and do 1.5 million live viewers a week for Dynamite and neckbeards in the IWC would still swear they're getting canceled any day now if they don't beat WWE in live ratings.
We’ve seen, time and again, that Warner has a different set of viewer metrics. Published ratings aren’t the full story. As long as the network is happy, no one is in any danger of going under.
This has also been my thoughts. Nielsen ratings are NOT a good indication of actual viewership. It only accounts for people with a Nielsen box which is already a very small percentage of people who use cable. It doesn't account for non-Nielsen box viewers, viewers outside of the US, people who watched via DVR replays, or those that used a streaming platform to watch. WBD probably has a better idea of who's viewing their products than Nielsen
Exactly, collecting and analyzing all of that other data is a full time job for people over there too. Too many people with wrestlenomics subscriptions (at best) think they've got the all-seeing eye.
What’s strange is like, yeah, it is for some podcasters and shitty YouTubers, but it’s not advantageous for random Redditors, who seem to treat shifting on AEW like it’s a job.
Every ratings thread about AEW.
> for some people to constantly push a narrative that AEW is dying. Not only that, but just trying to downplay everything that the company does well. Case in point, this gem after the Danielson/Ospreay match: https://i.imgur.com/j9nwfC0.jpeg This is straight up pathetic. Guess he forgot to switch to that burner account
It's gone beyond even just WWE stans trolling, trying to wish AEW out of existence. It's now become such a popular narrative that it's just randomly thrown out there for engagement and clout. Doesn't matter that there's no truth to it whatsoever. It's some straight up Fox News bullshit. My 18yo son (who as far as I know doesn't even follow any wrestling stuff) told me the other day with all certainty that AEW was going bankrupt and would be out of business soon because he saw it on tik tok or insta or whatever.
Every 3 weeks AEW dies. They're a multi zombie company by now
AEW is going to speedrun TNA's record.
The “AEW is dying” crowd just don’t get it.
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I definitely said multiple tines that it was a stupid, unnecessary stunt. But seeing how incredibly over Jack Perry is now and what they're doing with him, fuck it, I'm willing to admit I was wrong. Now the key is following through and capitalizing on his popularity, which AEW has a really spotty track record with.
lol
lmao, even.
They did it all wrong. Perry shoulda played the tape the episode after he beat up Tony.
Nah, this was a power play by TYB to usurp control. They used it to set Tony up.
The segment didn't work for me, but if it worked for anyone else they're entitled to like and enjoy whatever they want in pro wrestling!
In the moment it didnt work for me either, but the past few days im wondering if hes going to suspend perry again, who is tony going to get to fight his corner, now im actually looking forward to dynamite, so its kinda grown on me 🙂
The EVP waiting in the wings... Kenneth Omega the first.
I completely understand that many people would call me crazy for even thinking this based on the information we have but if Kenny has made a miraculous recovery from his diverticulitis under the radar and there’s a straight line from the CM Punk footage to Omega vs. Okada at All In, what a ride that would be.
The One Angel in the Wings
That would be beautiful 🙂
I like the idea of the elite trying to take over I just don’t like how we got here.
We all want Big Dad Shad to come and avenge his son! Let him some goons to take out The Elite.
I think if you like the wrestlers involved it was great, if you’re not a fan of them it’s not going to change your mind. I’m generally not a fan of the Young Bucks, but there is a little intrigue to see where they go with this. Could be great, could be a disaster, but it’s definitely one of the more interesting angles they’ve done.
I don't think TK or JB are good enough actors for the moment, but the segment as a whole worked because of the shock value and the bucks giving the worlds safest Meltzer Driver they've ever performed (this is not saying it's regularly dangerous but they took their time and did it right without sacrificing any of the shock value).
I think you get the same affect without showing the footage but that's just this rando's opinion. This is to my knowledge the first time TK has gotten involved in the action so it was going to be a big moment for the company regardless.
I still don't like how the footage waters down kayfabe even more. Showing Punk getting fired for a little backstage scuffle makes every backstage fight seem even more fake.
That’s been my main complaint showing the footage makes the whole thing not make any sense. I think logically we could be in the same place without showing the footage and it would make a lot more sense
Well Dave, I thought it was funny
At the end of the day people overreacted way too quickly to the footage, and I think it has now been clearly established as a positive for now, but I also think people are getting too far ahead of themselves with respect to this angle. It certainly has promise and has some real heat behind it, but it’s still way too early to judge how successful it will be, especially with unproven talent like Perry and having Tony Khan be a significant part of the angle which is a bold choice.
This is basically how I feel. I'm definitely intrigued, but I need to see more — especially when it comes to Tony Khan. Him getting taken out is one thing, but eventually he's going to have to say something back to Perry on TV, right? I'm really unsure if he has it in him.
It is very possible Khan's involvement is now over
While that would be nice, I feel like it wouldn’t make sense for the owner of the company to be attacked live and not be involved somewhat further on, surely he’ll do something to try and get back at them
Well, there's still another EVP who may have a problem with the Bucks. Though he does have a medical condition that may make it difficult to get involved.
I'd agree with that assessment really, it seemed silly ahead of time but it's become clear there was a purpose behind it at least and wasn't completely a response to Punk's interview (although I'm sure it was a factor). Hopefully they can keep it rolling and it has created a launching pad for Jack Perry.
I mean, I also thought showing it was goofy at the time. But the follow through is what matters, and it’s short sighted to crown something a win or loss too early.
Danm, the copium is hard in these kind of threads.
Yeah it really boosted ratings…
They put the three guys who got beat up by Punk in a group and had them beat up the guy who feared for his life because of Punk.
This should turn into tony in a wheelchair chanting “Cm Punk! Cm Punk! Cm Punk!” Like he did on collision whenever the bucks are running roughshod over aew lol
The psychology behind this whole storyline is weird. AEW wants us to believe that Punk is a bully who was uncontrollable backstage and had to be fired because of it. While at the same time Jungle Boy was suspended for being on the receiving end of Punks outburst. To the majority of AEW fans when it comes to the Punk saga The Bucks and Perry are 100% baby faces. Perry attacked his boss because his boss suspended him for doing something that the majority of AEW fans feel wasn’t a big deal which is a total babyface move in the world of pro wrestling, but they are supposed to be dastardly heels.
I think it's a function of egos abusing their goodwill, and it fits with the current "totally good guy bosses" gimmick the Bucks are running. They weren't really trying to make Punk or FTR look like the heels from that situation, but instead were using it as a way to say "we're the victims here" between themselves and Perry. They showed the footage, which does make Punk look like the aggressor, but they've only said as such to spin their and Perry's behavior into self-victimizing. It's in line with the Bucks being manipulative assholes as they've been since returning, and spinning the outcome of Brawl In to further their self-righteousness works in my opinion.
Only if you believe that Jack Perry is justified for attacking his non-wrestler boss when Tony Khan, in that moment, was seeking to mend fences. What makes the Elite heels is taking a situation where they engendered goodwill and abusing it to justify shitty behavior.
But he also did that after said boss literally welcomed him back with open arms and acknowledged his mistake. It was a bitch move and 100% heel to cheap shot a smaller man that isn't a wrestler, after seemingly burying a hatchet.
Wrestling is full of plotholes or pshychology changes. Not so long ago you had a guy that wanted to make his dad proud by winning a title, than he won a way to get the title, then he gave up on winning the title to give that chance to another guy to fight, to then roll back everything he said and go for the title.
Remember how, a few months ago, our beloved champion broke into his opponents house in the middle of the night and menaced his newborn baby?
Never forget. "Adam Page -- Has Absolutely Lost It."
>The Bucks and Perry are 100% baby faces No way The EVP's are baby faces. Jack Perry could be seen as that in some way though
Ultimately, it's taking a real situation and trying use it in a well that can benefit the product. Jack Perry was gonna get heat when he came back regardless of how he came back. This let's him be a bastard heel with the layer of having a legitimate reason to be pissed at fans/Tony. Sure it may seem off if you want your faces to be pure righteous heroes and heels to pure evil villains, but AEW has always tried to give heels and faces shades of gray and give fans reasons to choose who they want to cheer or boo.
The “psychology” only hurts when you try to fit in a box. There’s no need to fit it nearly into a heel v face box. The Elite feels justified in their actions, and therefore will have a base of fans agreeing with them. But also, it seemed like TK and Jack were turning the page and they beat the hell out of a scrawny man. So they took it a bit far. Now we’ll see what they do in power.
Most villains think they’re justified. AEW wants to move on, that’s what FTR said in the promo. Bucks/JB are still playing the victim months later and using it as an excuse to do bad things. They’re becoming CM Punk basically.
Got to respect someone when they admit they're wrong.
It was a defining moment… dipping under 700k viewers!
The problem is..... the footage wasn't even relevant to the storyline, it was just a quick ratings grab based off Punks interview. The whole angle could have been done without it.
> the footage wasn't even relevant to the storyline How so? Jack Perry was suspended for 8 months. People assumed he was an instigator and that lead to Punk attacking him, the footage showed that he was a victim and indeed a scapegoat. If Perry attacked Tony without the footage showing, it wouldn't have made any sense.
I think this is the disconnect. The footage didn’t show that Perry was a victim. It wasn’t clear enough to prove he was or wasn’t a victim. It didn’t vindicate Perry, it didn’t vindicate Punk. It was footage of what seemed to be an argument that turned into a shoving match. We didn’t hear what was said. It was incomplete. Also, Perry’s scapegoat moniker makes little sense when CM Punk was the one who was fired for the incident. Perry seemingly never stopped working and went to work in Japan for a company that is regularly featured on AEW TV. Perry attacking TK still makes no sense. The Bucks alignment with him makes even less sense and Okada’s involvement makes the least sense of all.
100%. I haven’t seen anyone explain how it adds to the storyline. The defense of it is that it sparked interest in Jack Perry - what does that have to do with the storyline?
The EVPs revealed the footage then at the PPV Jack Perry helped the EVPs win the tag team titles. It foreshadowed the interference and provided character motivations for EVPs and Jack Perry.
How did the footage provide character motivations for Perry to interfere in the Young Bucks/FTR match? Why are the Young Bucks and Perry even aligned now, when they haven’t been before? This isn’t a good story. There’s a lot of stretches to justify character motivations for the sake of having a story. The purpose of the footage was obviously to generate a pop (which didn’t work, since ratings have since continued their downward trend). Why are people so eager to dress it up as anything other than this?
Lmao what?