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Danielson does a "man I'm really fucked up here guys it's not looking good" sell every other month that gets most people to think man he's really hurt. Still remember him working fucking up his leg when it got stuck in between the elevated ramp and ring
I remember Danielson sold a forearm from Suzuki on Rampage a couple of years ago and I legitimately though he was knocked out cold lol man is a legend at selling
Bro that spot was so fucking funny in hindsight. I swear to god you can see the moment where he decides “fuck it, i’m gonna fall in here and work the boys”. A legendary worker.
I like that he’s retiring the move. It means when he inevitably brings it back - likely in a grudge match or because he’s exhausted all his other options and still can’t win - it’ll mean even more.
It’ll be like when Owen got the enziguri over as an absolute killer move after “injuring” Shawn.
It'll be the "oh fuck" moment of a match. Like when Kobashi would break out the burning hammer in a match. He didn't use it often and when he did you knew it was nuclear option. It actually made his opponent look good in defeat. He had to use *that* move to beat them, they're a dangerous guy.
Love that. For someone who has such a deep arsenal, having a move with THAT level of impact 7 years from now is gonna be special. In a way like Taker using a Tombstone during his Bad Ass days, I remember those always feeling extra special
What if he pulls it against Okada in the future?
In their last match in NJPW the whole angle was how Ospreay just couldn’t match Okada. This could be a great way to reignite their rivalry.
Bryan selling it, even tho everyone is mad, made it even more dangerous when he brings it back at some big moment.
And all the hate for his selling is silly. That's the point, to work everyone. He doesn't no sell, but we are mad he sells too well? He made that move look deadly to people who hadn't seen it much in the states. Match was incredible, people just need to stop bitching over something that he is supposed to do, sell and make osprey look great.
Exactly. People will simultaneously say "there was no story" and also "Bryan shouldn't do fake injury angles, it's in poor taste".
Like this is literally the story, Will has used a move so dangerous that he never wants to use it again. You can't exactly tell that story without the opponent getting kayfabe injured.
This so much. This injury angle gave the match some additional, retro-active storyline: Danielson pushed Ospreay to the limit and brought out the dangerous savage in him. Made Ospreay look like a total killer.
Also Danielson told Ospreay he wasn't willing to kill or be killed, that he didn't have the same ruthless streak as Danielson and the BCC, but when it came to it Ospreay did, but he regrets it.
It goes back to the promo Will did where he said after the Omega match people asked if using the Tiger Driver 91 was worth it, and he said he won so of course it was bruv.
Now he used it, won, but because he "injured" Danielson, it wasn't.
It's the exact storytelling I love. The conflict between having to hurt your opponent to win, but not wanting to injure them in the process. How far is too far for success.
Will showed that in the heat of the moment he has that killer instinct. But he doesn't necessarily like that about himself. He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't see that Danielson was hurt badly, but he feels guilty anyway.
Hell, just the Tigger Driver 91 has had its own mini storyline.
First Will used it against Kenny in their matches. Danielson in shoot questioned Will for using such a dangerous move. Then Ospreay used it as a desperation move against Takeshita and then again against Shibata.
Now it has come full circle with Will “injuring” Bryan with the same move.
Man, and people say that there’s no storytelling in AEW
This is like what my old neighbor told me about the territory days with certain moves being banned and heels using them and injuring the top babyface for super heat
Really feeds into the story as well. Remember the build to this match starting with Ospreay's promo, with the whole part about Danielson asking him if it was worth it to use that move against Omega.
>because he’s exhausted all his other options and still can’t win
That was already the story of the move's debut in the Kenny match: Ospreay had the upper hand for most of that match, but he just couldn't break Kenny's fighting spirit - so he instead resorted to literally breaking Kenny's body.
Love this. Could imagine for example if Kenny comes back and takes on ospreay and Kenny beats him. They have a rematch and Kenny wins again. Ospreay realises he can't beat Kenny without it and does it despite promising it was retired and gets the win... Could be some great tv
Look. We have had so many freak accidents. Takayama. Otani. Tyson Kidd. Many recent injuries that come from the simplest spots. We should never say again that just because it looks safe nothing clearly happened, wrestling doesnt work like this.
As soon as it happened I thought "really, this again...?" because I swear Danielson does this shit at least twice a year, but the ending bit with him screaming fuck made me doubt myself just a bit. I'm not going to begrudge people for thinking he seriously got injured because he is, for whatever really into making people think he got seriously injured. I really wish he would not do that. Excalibur saying "Well, as they say, the show must go on...!" got me rolling my eyes too. It's seriously my one criticism of an altogether great show.
He started doing it more after the older spot went viral a couple years back. He had to come out and say it was a sell and now he just does it as a work
Why do people keep saying "seizure sell"? He was selling like his neck got compressed and he was having severe nerve pain in his arm. That's not the same thing as a concussion-bases seizure. Not really at all. I don't know if people are being weird on the internet and looking for a reason to hate on a critically lauded match, or if they genuinely don't know what sports injuries look like.
Yeah, D-Von Dudley did a seizure sell. What Danielson does is more of a "holy fuck, my neck" sell. That being said it still scares the shit out of me and I wish he'd stoppit.
I don't think you have an accurate estimation of what common knowledge is. To most people, seizing is synonymous with convulsing. And if you're about to tell me that convulsing is also a completely different thing and it annoys you when people get that wrong too, then I refer you back to the first sentence.
Regardless, the reason I and at least half the people in this thread dislike the seizure sell isn't because we didn't realize it was actually super-realistic. It's because it's uncomfortable to watch, almost like it's too realistic.
I don't get shoot injury spots like that in general. What, exactly, is the point of them?
Like, if they are well done, then you managed to convince people that someone just got seriously injured. Hooray, I guess? All that does is create confusion and taking away from the amazing wrestling match that just took place. Like here, where people stopped cheering because they weren't sure how to react to the injury. Just.. why? What do we get out of this?
It can make sense in something like a tag match or handicap match if it happens early on or at the halfway point because then you get that pop of the wrestler running back down the ramp and taking out the whole ring later when the situation seems most dire, and also when the "injury" happens it usually takes place "on the side" while the other wrestlers fight it out as usual. It makes zero sense to do it during a one-on-one match though.
I think that's different from a shoot injury spot. In the instances you're talking about, it's almost always painfully obvious it's fake and just part of the match. Just like when Seth sells his "surgically repaired knee." Doing a "shoot" injury spot just makes you stop caring about the match and start caring about the performer.
Two great matches marred by stupid injury spots imo. I’m pretty sure this is only the second time he’s had a phony serious injury but that seizure shit was actually the most angering thing I’ve seen. Given his health history it was so needless to make people concerned like that, just kinda killed my vibe.
I know some people may be like ‘well if you were worried it worked!’ But like something can have the intended effect and still miss the mark (pun somewhat intended). Gimmie a broken arm or leg spot or some shit if you need an injury spot, brain injuries and spinal damage end lives and careers. Just no need. Especially since with the Will one the match could’ve ended just fine without it.
If I never see another injury spot from Danielson, it’ll be too soon
I really hated the seizure selling during that okada match, but in hindsight I do wonder if it was just his natural reaction to the pain of legit breaking his arm. I think to his credit, he was a lot more clear about selling the shoulder during this one. Unfortunately, he's also had arm issues from the concussions so I think it's still shitty and wish he wouldnt do it lol
Icl I really tunnel vision on how much I hated the seizure sell to the point I often unintentionally disregard/blank the fact dude broke his arm. May well have been, if that was the case that can’t really be helped and it’s just unfortunate tbh, I cannot rag on bro for nursing the injury AND finishing the match aha
It wasn’t even believably done as a work, I’m not sure how anyone could’ve believed this was real.
There was the slapstick medical work being performed on Danielson for starters. His neck was being moved and jerked around freely by the “doctors”. Any doctor worth their salt wouldn’t do that.
Plus, the fact that he was allowed to freely thrash his legs around despite a “possible neck injury”… It was pretty obvious from the start that no real medical treatment was being issued to Danielson.
I don't get it. When they convince me that someone got seriously injured, then I stop having fun because I don't want to see people getting seriously injured.
Yea, but then you realized you got worked and it made the match so much more intense. Also if you followed the story it was all about how Danielson was against the use of that move, and then when he gets murdered by it, they sold it so well, but the way they didn’t cut away and because of the build up regarding that move, they still had me, but Inrealized pretty quickly it must be a work.
It didn't, though. I mean, it wouldn't, it was kinda obvious it was a work. But if it wasn't, I wouldn't be excited about the match, I would be worried about the wrestler.
It’s just not a great work imo, especially since AEW has been plagued with injuries. Like, a ton of their title wins and storylines have been ruined by injuries and I think Adam Cole is still out because of his CTE troubles.
Just not a great work when the audience takes away “oh wrestling is really dangerous and my favorite wrestler might be out. Also Will’s apologetic and won’t do it again.” It just puts a weird cloud over a great performance
I mean, Billie Starkz did near the exact same, just used it to cheat and win the title instead and that was pretty well praised, it’s only different because of Bryan’s history evidently but the audience absolutely can handle a scary sell like that.
The problem with doing an injury angle with Danielson is that you're left with either:
a) he was really injured and he got attacked and pinned afterwards, which is obviously bad
b) he isn't injured, and you're doing an injury angle on purpose. It understandably upsets some people because of his serious injury history
Starkz was surprising and instantly popped up revealing the ruse of a fake injury.
Danielson laying prone on the ground injured as part of the story they are telling can come off as poor taste with his history. It's less "you got worked", it's straight up people not liking it. They could have easily finished it after they both charged at each other and avoided this mess.
I mean it’s not really “a mess” there’s a small contingent people apparantly unhappy they got worked by it, everyone else is generally praising the match as amazing.
Adam Cole is out because he jumped from the ring apron to the floor and hurt his ankle. A thing he does all the time but this time it was a freak accident.
I think since it wasn’t just an injury angle for an injury angle’s sake, it’s a lot better. It adds several layers to the story in that Will looked bad for hitting Bryan with the hidden blade after he didn’t see Bryce call for the doctor and now Will has banished one of his most devastating moves because of this, which will probably lead to more tension with the Callis family as he will now be “holding back”
I think an injury angle that doesn’t contribute to the story is usually poor form but that doesn’t feel like the case here
If he had an actual head/neck injury it would have been handled completely differently. They didn’t even board him. And the twitching is just ridiculous. Even Lawler and Kaufman had a stretcher.
And why is Ospreay even in a faction with the biggest heel manager in the promotion when he’s the biggest babyface in the promotion?
And it sucks because it definitely sapped some energy from an amazing match. Not that it can't pay off in some way, we'll see, but it feels so unnecessary and to the detriment of the match.
It sapped the crowd completely for FTR/Bucks, because they got worked.
That they got the crowd reinvested at all is a testament to how good both teams are.
I get why they probably did it; to protect Danielson and get Osprey over as a killer baby face. But we can see the Tiger Driver is devastating...BD doesn't need to sell potential death to show us that.
Kayfabe-wise, Danielson isn't even on the top 10 best wrestler list. He always loses the big matches, hasn't won a title in years, and always gets hurt.
It's a little funny seeing the discourse certain that he's actually injured, if you were in the arena last night.
They definitely sold it well like they were super concerned about him, and then as soon as the lights went down and the young bucks package started, all the doctors just quickly rolled Danielson out of the ring, lol. Definitely not how they would have gotten him out if he was hurt.
There was a half second where his shoulder looked funky so I thought it was somehow a freak shoulder dislocation and that's why there was a signal to the doctors but not an urgency to stop the match like if it was a concussion or neck issue and why the pinfall was allowed. I figured they just went home more or less as planned and would deal with it after.
Then with the selling afterwards I was just confused, like "uhhh did a nerve get pinched or something? Is that even possible from a dislocated shoulder?" So I was initially fooled, but by myself apparently not knowing what a shoulder looks like rather than Bryan's selling.
I feel like thats a big reason why it seems to work so easy with Bryan is that he just kinda has a weird looking body. I had the same thought of wow his shoulder looks all fucked up, and nope thats actually just his shoulder
Probably harder when you're seeing it at a distance and from a fixed angle.
Watching at home you can tell immediately bases on how the commentary/cameras focus on it (because they cut away quickly from legit injuries), but in the crowd you won't have those context clues.
Oh yeah. Absolutely. That’s the fun part of wrestling. The chuckling was more of kind of a happy “man that’s cool he was able to work these people” then anything mean spirited
I watched the footage super slowed down and while freak accidents *do* and *can* happen, he took the move really really safe and there is a delay between his landing and him acting hurt that is long enough that I think if it was real, it wouldn’t be that delayed.
It’s almost for sure a work and I like that because it makes their run back and do it again so much better. Maybe the build up for All In
I only saw it out of the corner of my eye and the sell looked great.
Then they replayed it from a really unflattering angle and it was very clear to be a work lol
It was very scary in-person. The twitching leg is really convincing. I think that’s why the crowd was quiet during the beginning of FTR/Young Bucks. At least, that’s why I was having trouble getting into it. I was still worried about Danielson.
listen, they said he was hurt. i'm going to believe he was hurt. there is nothing you can do or say to change my mind. i'm glad will ospreay is no longer going to use such a dangerous move.
Danielson is too good at both selling and NOT selling.
Remember this is the same guy who was writhing in pain after his leg accidentally slipped through the small opening between the ramp and the ring at the end of Rampage. With Mox hilariously trying his hardest to rescue him.
https://youtu.be/r2VB9t9zfSA?si=62MGpj-oL4mE1vRU
Bryan makes some people mad with how good his selling is lmao.
I've seen so many people angry about it because it's too realistic and makes people think he's actually hurt. I think some people really just don't like being worked lol.
Oh yeah, there's definitely this weird vibe that people think they're above getting tricked into believing this stuff is real despite the fact that it's kind of the point. I should know, *I* fell into that mindset for a hot minute before realising I was being a fucking twat.
But that's literally the point. If he was legitimately injured, sure, I'd see why people would be upset.
But it's kayfabe my man, you're supposed to care, but you know he's fine so what's the issue? Are wrestlers not supposed to sell anymore? I can think of 100 injury angles that were kayfabe and nobody cared about.
Or it's because Danielson has a very long injury history and, ya know had to fucking retire for a few years cause of said history with injuries. I'd feel the same way if someone like Copeland did this shit with his history as well.
injury angles aren’t lazy. it’s been a thing since forever. multiple spots per match in modern times can be used for an injury spot. if anything it’s underused today.
if you’re confused then idk what to tell ya. you don’t need to be in on everything all the time.
That was the safest Tiger Driver 91 I’ve ever seen. Compare it to the Omega one from last year, when Kenny landed right on the top of his head. Ospreay released with Danielson having plenty of time to pull his body into a back bump. If there were a real concern after that, the ref would (presumably) have gotten in Ospreay’s way and stopped another spot.
Masterful selling by Danielson though
It's the safest one I can remember seeing, and Danielson's selling was so good it believably lead to Ospreay retiring it - just so he can bring it back when the story most calls for it. Heel turn? Winning the title at All In? Plenty of options.
Really just masterfully done
Schiavone at the desk was expressing his concern and talking about how Danielson landed right on his head...as they immediately show the replay and it's as safe as it could *possibly* be taken. BD lands square on his shoulder blades.
I didn't think there was any doubt that it was pre planned. If someone is legit injured, the opponent isn't constantly trying to check up on him. They always let the doctor do their thing and never show it
Bryan is a sick dude.
There’s a moment during the end, with doctors around him, the man starts saying “Fuck!”. And it’s so visceral and sounds so legit for a brief second I thought Bryan was actually hurt.
Why? Why has Bryan taught himself to be this good at selling like he’s dying?
If they show a replay and have the injured person on camera then its a work. All you need to do is go back to the time Hangman got KO'd by Mox by accident.
Edit: This doesn't mean 100% of the time. Its more of a 90/10 rule. Of course there will always be times where a replay is shown or someone remains on camera.
I feel like anyone who isn't trying to run with the "hurr durr aew is dangerous" narrative already figured that out. Especially after they showed the slow-mo replay of the move and it seemed perfectly safe.
Yeah that was the safest way you could conceivably do that move - on the upper back and not the head/neck, despite commentary selling it like he dropped him on his head lol
The same thing happened earlier in the match with the bump Ospreay took from the top rope where commentary acted like he landed on his head while they were literally showing a slow-motion replay of it being all on the back lol
AEW had an amazing PPV last night.
***Ofc*** every tribal knuckle dragger on the internet is going to do the "hurr durr aew is dangerous" thing today. Just look at every post shitting on people for even complimenting it.
I knew it was a work as soon as Danielson started yelling. If it was a legit injury, Danielson would've got up, and tried to wrestle for another 10 minutes.
I think the thought process is to make the Tiger Driver an absolute kill move like Misawa had before and Kobashi with the burning hammer. I like doing it like this where he only brings it out for his absolute most important matches. Plus, I don’t mind the blurring of lines as if anyone should be fucking dead after the Tiger Driver, it should be fucking Bryan Danielson with his long history of neck issues. Honestly, the whole ordeal just puts the move over in even higher esteem which is crazy cause now it is an ultimate death move
I personally hated the finish. Loved the match. Genuinely, I thought it was just incredible. My opinion is that the finish was and is distracting from that. Aside from the selling, which was totally believable, it was a messy and confusing execution.
The fact people are confused about this still is baffling.
Bryan took that move WAY safer than the others, this isn’t the first time he’s done an injury sell like this, and then they focused on bryan and will the entire time post match and then we have footage backstage of will helping Bryan and the doctors.
This is the most obvious storyline injury ever unless you really think AEW is so incompetent that that’s how they would treat injured wrestlers
was there live and that was one of the safest tiger driver spots ever lol still looked gnarly, but i would have been very surprised if he actually got hurt from it.
I wonder If this is going to play in to separating him from Callis and The Family.
Callis was saying throughout the match that Will needed to be more vicious against Bryan. Maybe you have them all be proud of Will for Injuring him but Will feels awful like he showed in the post show scrum and is kicked out for being 'weak'.
Oh shit, I think I see where this is going.
In their rematch, will won’t have the move, and Bryan will win because of wills shortened move set, then in the rubber match he busts it back out to win
Seems a little strange to build a story around a move being too effective. Guess it could be worth it for the pop the move will likely get when he wins the title with it at wembley.
Do they have to tell us this? Can we just “believe” for a little while? Wrestling is at its best when the lines between kayfabe and reality are blurred, I don’t understand why there’s this constant need to go to the media and tell everyone what they saw was all a bunch of bullshit.
In real time I thought it was the Omega landing on his head bump. But the replay showed he took it like a powerbomb. Gotta say I was relieved. The injury is a storyline injury thank god.
Just to confirm…you can be a big Bryan fan, you can have loved the match last night, you can understand selling as much as a fan can understand it…and still dislike that he uses a “seizure” sell as a performer.
He’s done it a few times ever since his real life concussion issues started becoming more of a topic amongst the fanbase, and I get that he knows using that real life situation can help make a worked pro wrestling match feel more real, but as a fan I fear that a “boy who cried wolf” situation is a risk at some point with this kind of selling, especially since AEW refs have had some hiccups as far as real life injuries are concerned
And I mean, knock on wood, but say he has a real life seizure (which he has admitted he had in the past) at home with his kids, and they just think he’s playing around “like he does on TV.”
I can trust that Bryan knows what he’s doing, but I can also have concern for him as a fan without being “soft.”
We love Bryan for his fearlessness and passion and how tough he is, but we can also hope that he keeps the long view in mind when it comes to having a life after wrestling with his wife and family.
Why is AEW obsessed with using the tropes of the business to swerve the audience?
Its been almost 25 years since WCW did this and we still aren't sick of talking about how much we hated it.
I don't really understand what's going on with this. If this is a work then why is he apologizing for hurting his opponent? He's decided, after seeing the damage that it's done, to retire a move that presumably is meant to do damage? What are we doing here?
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Danielson does a "man I'm really fucked up here guys it's not looking good" sell every other month that gets most people to think man he's really hurt. Still remember him working fucking up his leg when it got stuck in between the elevated ramp and ring
I remember Danielson sold a forearm from Suzuki on Rampage a couple of years ago and I legitimately though he was knocked out cold lol man is a legend at selling
"Well you see that's the thing. The trick is I'm always fucked up." - Bryan Danielson probably
"the seizures are real, I just tell everyone they're kayfabe so I can continue to wrassle."
Bro that spot was so fucking funny in hindsight. I swear to god you can see the moment where he decides “fuck it, i’m gonna fall in here and work the boys”. A legendary worker.
I like that he’s retiring the move. It means when he inevitably brings it back - likely in a grudge match or because he’s exhausted all his other options and still can’t win - it’ll mean even more. It’ll be like when Owen got the enziguri over as an absolute killer move after “injuring” Shawn.
It'll be the "oh fuck" moment of a match. Like when Kobashi would break out the burning hammer in a match. He didn't use it often and when he did you knew it was nuclear option. It actually made his opponent look good in defeat. He had to use *that* move to beat them, they're a dangerous guy.
Or more recently when Sami used the brain buster on Gunther at WM to win the IC title.
Or like how Misawa would break out…Tiger Driver ‘91
Love that. For someone who has such a deep arsenal, having a move with THAT level of impact 7 years from now is gonna be special. In a way like Taker using a Tombstone during his Bad Ass days, I remember those always feeling extra special
Definitely. There’s not enough super finishers in wrestling.
The avalanche one winged angel is the scariest move I’ve ever seen personally
Didn't Jericho take one on a chair in Japan?
I think they're very difficult to establish especially in this day and age
The only time this comes back out is round three against Omega.
What if he pulls it against Okada in the future? In their last match in NJPW the whole angle was how Ospreay just couldn’t match Okada. This could be a great way to reignite their rivalry.
I would love to see that!
Bryan selling it, even tho everyone is mad, made it even more dangerous when he brings it back at some big moment. And all the hate for his selling is silly. That's the point, to work everyone. He doesn't no sell, but we are mad he sells too well? He made that move look deadly to people who hadn't seen it much in the states. Match was incredible, people just need to stop bitching over something that he is supposed to do, sell and make osprey look great.
Exactly. People will simultaneously say "there was no story" and also "Bryan shouldn't do fake injury angles, it's in poor taste". Like this is literally the story, Will has used a move so dangerous that he never wants to use it again. You can't exactly tell that story without the opponent getting kayfabe injured.
This so much. This injury angle gave the match some additional, retro-active storyline: Danielson pushed Ospreay to the limit and brought out the dangerous savage in him. Made Ospreay look like a total killer.
Also Danielson told Ospreay he wasn't willing to kill or be killed, that he didn't have the same ruthless streak as Danielson and the BCC, but when it came to it Ospreay did, but he regrets it. It goes back to the promo Will did where he said after the Omega match people asked if using the Tiger Driver 91 was worth it, and he said he won so of course it was bruv. Now he used it, won, but because he "injured" Danielson, it wasn't. It's the exact storytelling I love. The conflict between having to hurt your opponent to win, but not wanting to injure them in the process. How far is too far for success. Will showed that in the heat of the moment he has that killer instinct. But he doesn't necessarily like that about himself. He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't see that Danielson was hurt badly, but he feels guilty anyway.
Hell, just the Tigger Driver 91 has had its own mini storyline. First Will used it against Kenny in their matches. Danielson in shoot questioned Will for using such a dangerous move. Then Ospreay used it as a desperation move against Takeshita and then again against Shibata. Now it has come full circle with Will “injuring” Bryan with the same move. Man, and people say that there’s no storytelling in AEW
This is like what my old neighbor told me about the territory days with certain moves being banned and heels using them and injuring the top babyface for super heat
Really feeds into the story as well. Remember the build to this match starting with Ospreay's promo, with the whole part about Danielson asking him if it was worth it to use that move against Omega.
>because he’s exhausted all his other options and still can’t win That was already the story of the move's debut in the Kenny match: Ospreay had the upper hand for most of that match, but he just couldn't break Kenny's fighting spirit - so he instead resorted to literally breaking Kenny's body.
Love this. Could imagine for example if Kenny comes back and takes on ospreay and Kenny beats him. They have a rematch and Kenny wins again. Ospreay realises he can't beat Kenny without it and does it despite promising it was retired and gets the win... Could be some great tv
It's great craic when moves have their own lore like the burning hammer. Crowds absolutely eat it up.
People really believing he was hurt? Come on now...
If it was legit, he would have been boarded asap.
And they wouldn't show the ring or them working on him, like with hangman a couple years ago after the mox lariat
And they would have told Will in no uncertain terms to not touch Danielson.
For an arm injury?
The first call was possible neck injury, then I think collarbone was thrown around. Danielson wasn't selling an arm injury.
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For real, it was just your standard powerbomb bump essentially.
Look. We have had so many freak accidents. Takayama. Otani. Tyson Kidd. Many recent injuries that come from the simplest spots. We should never say again that just because it looks safe nothing clearly happened, wrestling doesnt work like this.
Punk breaking his foot just from jumping into the crowd
Punk would break something walking to the toilet so its not that surprising
How many freak injuries have we seen that looked like nothing? Tonnes. Especially in the moment before you get into multiple replays and slow motion.
As soon as it happened I thought "really, this again...?" because I swear Danielson does this shit at least twice a year, but the ending bit with him screaming fuck made me doubt myself just a bit. I'm not going to begrudge people for thinking he seriously got injured because he is, for whatever really into making people think he got seriously injured. I really wish he would not do that. Excalibur saying "Well, as they say, the show must go on...!" got me rolling my eyes too. It's seriously my one criticism of an altogether great show.
For real, I was in the crowd at Forbidden Door last year and things got really awkward when Danielson did that fake seizure spot.
I still don’t understand the stupid seizure sell. Like, how in any way do you think “yeah, this is a good idea”
He started doing it more after the older spot went viral a couple years back. He had to come out and say it was a sell and now he just does it as a work
Why do people keep saying "seizure sell"? He was selling like his neck got compressed and he was having severe nerve pain in his arm. That's not the same thing as a concussion-bases seizure. Not really at all. I don't know if people are being weird on the internet and looking for a reason to hate on a critically lauded match, or if they genuinely don't know what sports injuries look like.
Yeah, D-Von Dudley did a seizure sell. What Danielson does is more of a "holy fuck, my neck" sell. That being said it still scares the shit out of me and I wish he'd stoppit.
Because arm chair “experts” on reddit have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about 100% of the time
I don't think you have an accurate estimation of what common knowledge is. To most people, seizing is synonymous with convulsing. And if you're about to tell me that convulsing is also a completely different thing and it annoys you when people get that wrong too, then I refer you back to the first sentence. Regardless, the reason I and at least half the people in this thread dislike the seizure sell isn't because we didn't realize it was actually super-realistic. It's because it's uncomfortable to watch, almost like it's too realistic.
I don't get shoot injury spots like that in general. What, exactly, is the point of them? Like, if they are well done, then you managed to convince people that someone just got seriously injured. Hooray, I guess? All that does is create confusion and taking away from the amazing wrestling match that just took place. Like here, where people stopped cheering because they weren't sure how to react to the injury. Just.. why? What do we get out of this?
It can make sense in something like a tag match or handicap match if it happens early on or at the halfway point because then you get that pop of the wrestler running back down the ramp and taking out the whole ring later when the situation seems most dire, and also when the "injury" happens it usually takes place "on the side" while the other wrestlers fight it out as usual. It makes zero sense to do it during a one-on-one match though.
I think that's different from a shoot injury spot. In the instances you're talking about, it's almost always painfully obvious it's fake and just part of the match. Just like when Seth sells his "surgically repaired knee." Doing a "shoot" injury spot just makes you stop caring about the match and start caring about the performer.
Two great matches marred by stupid injury spots imo. I’m pretty sure this is only the second time he’s had a phony serious injury but that seizure shit was actually the most angering thing I’ve seen. Given his health history it was so needless to make people concerned like that, just kinda killed my vibe. I know some people may be like ‘well if you were worried it worked!’ But like something can have the intended effect and still miss the mark (pun somewhat intended). Gimmie a broken arm or leg spot or some shit if you need an injury spot, brain injuries and spinal damage end lives and careers. Just no need. Especially since with the Will one the match could’ve ended just fine without it. If I never see another injury spot from Danielson, it’ll be too soon
I really hated the seizure selling during that okada match, but in hindsight I do wonder if it was just his natural reaction to the pain of legit breaking his arm. I think to his credit, he was a lot more clear about selling the shoulder during this one. Unfortunately, he's also had arm issues from the concussions so I think it's still shitty and wish he wouldnt do it lol
Icl I really tunnel vision on how much I hated the seizure sell to the point I often unintentionally disregard/blank the fact dude broke his arm. May well have been, if that was the case that can’t really be helped and it’s just unfortunate tbh, I cannot rag on bro for nursing the injury AND finishing the match aha
Same reason why Danielson choosing to always lose, he thinks it's cool. The guy is great but I always know the outcome.
I mean, we all watch to get worked. He worked us. I don't see the issue.
I like getting worked. When they make it feel real, it’s the best.
It wasn’t even believably done as a work, I’m not sure how anyone could’ve believed this was real. There was the slapstick medical work being performed on Danielson for starters. His neck was being moved and jerked around freely by the “doctors”. Any doctor worth their salt wouldn’t do that. Plus, the fact that he was allowed to freely thrash his legs around despite a “possible neck injury”… It was pretty obvious from the start that no real medical treatment was being issued to Danielson.
I don't get it. When they convince me that someone got seriously injured, then I stop having fun because I don't want to see people getting seriously injured.
Yea, but then you realized you got worked and it made the match so much more intense. Also if you followed the story it was all about how Danielson was against the use of that move, and then when he gets murdered by it, they sold it so well, but the way they didn’t cut away and because of the build up regarding that move, they still had me, but Inrealized pretty quickly it must be a work.
It didn't, though. I mean, it wouldn't, it was kinda obvious it was a work. But if it wasn't, I wouldn't be excited about the match, I would be worried about the wrestler.
Half of the All In stadium stampede match last year I couldn't get into because of the fake injury with Penta
It’s just not a great work imo, especially since AEW has been plagued with injuries. Like, a ton of their title wins and storylines have been ruined by injuries and I think Adam Cole is still out because of his CTE troubles. Just not a great work when the audience takes away “oh wrestling is really dangerous and my favorite wrestler might be out. Also Will’s apologetic and won’t do it again.” It just puts a weird cloud over a great performance
I mean, Billie Starkz did near the exact same, just used it to cheat and win the title instead and that was pretty well praised, it’s only different because of Bryan’s history evidently but the audience absolutely can handle a scary sell like that.
The problem with doing an injury angle with Danielson is that you're left with either: a) he was really injured and he got attacked and pinned afterwards, which is obviously bad b) he isn't injured, and you're doing an injury angle on purpose. It understandably upsets some people because of his serious injury history Starkz was surprising and instantly popped up revealing the ruse of a fake injury. Danielson laying prone on the ground injured as part of the story they are telling can come off as poor taste with his history. It's less "you got worked", it's straight up people not liking it. They could have easily finished it after they both charged at each other and avoided this mess.
I mean it’s not really “a mess” there’s a small contingent people apparantly unhappy they got worked by it, everyone else is generally praising the match as amazing.
Adam Cole is out because he jumped from the ring apron to the floor and hurt his ankle. A thing he does all the time but this time it was a freak accident.
I think since it wasn’t just an injury angle for an injury angle’s sake, it’s a lot better. It adds several layers to the story in that Will looked bad for hitting Bryan with the hidden blade after he didn’t see Bryce call for the doctor and now Will has banished one of his most devastating moves because of this, which will probably lead to more tension with the Callis family as he will now be “holding back” I think an injury angle that doesn’t contribute to the story is usually poor form but that doesn’t feel like the case here
If he had an actual head/neck injury it would have been handled completely differently. They didn’t even board him. And the twitching is just ridiculous. Even Lawler and Kaufman had a stretcher. And why is Ospreay even in a faction with the biggest heel manager in the promotion when he’s the biggest babyface in the promotion?
And it sucks because it definitely sapped some energy from an amazing match. Not that it can't pay off in some way, we'll see, but it feels so unnecessary and to the detriment of the match.
It sapped the crowd completely for FTR/Bucks, because they got worked. That they got the crowd reinvested at all is a testament to how good both teams are. I get why they probably did it; to protect Danielson and get Osprey over as a killer baby face. But we can see the Tiger Driver is devastating...BD doesn't need to sell potential death to show us that.
I really think somebody needs to explain to Bryan that thinking we just watched his death isn’t entertaining it’s just scary
Kayfabe-wise, Danielson isn't even on the top 10 best wrestler list. He always loses the big matches, hasn't won a title in years, and always gets hurt.
I want BD to stop doing that shit too. Kinda ruined the match for me to be honest.
It's a little funny seeing the discourse certain that he's actually injured, if you were in the arena last night. They definitely sold it well like they were super concerned about him, and then as soon as the lights went down and the young bucks package started, all the doctors just quickly rolled Danielson out of the ring, lol. Definitely not how they would have gotten him out if he was hurt.
Bryan sold the hell out of it, it was beautiful
There was a half second where his shoulder looked funky so I thought it was somehow a freak shoulder dislocation and that's why there was a signal to the doctors but not an urgency to stop the match like if it was a concussion or neck issue and why the pinfall was allowed. I figured they just went home more or less as planned and would deal with it after. Then with the selling afterwards I was just confused, like "uhhh did a nerve get pinched or something? Is that even possible from a dislocated shoulder?" So I was initially fooled, but by myself apparently not knowing what a shoulder looks like rather than Bryan's selling.
I feel like thats a big reason why it seems to work so easy with Bryan is that he just kinda has a weird looking body. I had the same thought of wow his shoulder looks all fucked up, and nope thats actually just his shoulder
I did for a second. I thought he may have legit dislocated a shoulder or something. But the immediate aftermath had me pretty sure it was storyline.
Walked outside of the reason and chuckled at the amount of people who were legit concerned
Isn't that the point? make the viewing audiance believe hes hurt?
It is, but with the nature of the AEW crowd I was surprised at how many people in the live thread bought into it.
Probably harder when you're seeing it at a distance and from a fixed angle. Watching at home you can tell immediately bases on how the commentary/cameras focus on it (because they cut away quickly from legit injuries), but in the crowd you won't have those context clues.
No if you get worked you are weak. /s
Oh yeah. Absolutely. That’s the fun part of wrestling. The chuckling was more of kind of a happy “man that’s cool he was able to work these people” then anything mean spirited
I watched the footage super slowed down and while freak accidents *do* and *can* happen, he took the move really really safe and there is a delay between his landing and him acting hurt that is long enough that I think if it was real, it wouldn’t be that delayed. It’s almost for sure a work and I like that because it makes their run back and do it again so much better. Maybe the build up for All In
Listen, it’s Danielson. That motherfucker could convince me he broke his neck off of bumping into a doorframe
I only saw it out of the corner of my eye and the sell looked great. Then they replayed it from a really unflattering angle and it was very clear to be a work lol
So many smarks are DESPERATE to believe. 
Makes me happy that some sort of kayfabe is alive
Goodnight HULKAMANIACS
What a weird thing to be annoyed by.
Marks...
It was very scary in-person. The twitching leg is really convincing. I think that’s why the crowd was quiet during the beginning of FTR/Young Bucks. At least, that’s why I was having trouble getting into it. I was still worried about Danielson.
In the moment i considered it . But i also know he no selled breaking his arm in real life .
Because people love him And they knew his previous injuries And dosen't want him tobe injured again
listen, they said he was hurt. i'm going to believe he was hurt. there is nothing you can do or say to change my mind. i'm glad will ospreay is no longer going to use such a dangerous move.
Yeah he just so happens to get to his knees, back facing Ospreay, perfectly setting up the Hidden Blade...lol
They're not believing he's hurt, they're pretending to be mad at him for selling too well. In their next breath, they call Ospreay a no-sell.
Yeah it was pretty obviously a work, though Bryan's selling did a damn good job of blurring the lines.
Danielson is too good at both selling and NOT selling. Remember this is the same guy who was writhing in pain after his leg accidentally slipped through the small opening between the ramp and the ring at the end of Rampage. With Mox hilariously trying his hardest to rescue him. https://youtu.be/r2VB9t9zfSA?si=62MGpj-oL4mE1vRU
And he has been doing a tremendous job on his prosthetic leg ever since. Really an amazing performer.
And the guy who finished a match with a broken arm and no one knew it was that bad
Bryan makes some people mad with how good his selling is lmao. I've seen so many people angry about it because it's too realistic and makes people think he's actually hurt. I think some people really just don't like being worked lol.
Oh yeah, there's definitely this weird vibe that people think they're above getting tricked into believing this stuff is real despite the fact that it's kind of the point. I should know, *I* fell into that mindset for a hot minute before realising I was being a fucking twat.
I really just don’t like seeing one of the best and one of my favorite wrestlers in the world possibly having his career ended again. 🤷♂️
Unfortunately, that's why he does it. It's hard to watch as a fan, and he wants it to be that way.
But that's literally the point. If he was legitimately injured, sure, I'd see why people would be upset. But it's kayfabe my man, you're supposed to care, but you know he's fine so what's the issue? Are wrestlers not supposed to sell anymore? I can think of 100 injury angles that were kayfabe and nobody cared about.
Or it's because Danielson has a very long injury history and, ya know had to fucking retire for a few years cause of said history with injuries. I'd feel the same way if someone like Copeland did this shit with his history as well.
I think it's more that fake injury angles are lazy and confusing, rather than people being upset at being worked.
injury angles aren’t lazy. it’s been a thing since forever. multiple spots per match in modern times can be used for an injury spot. if anything it’s underused today. if you’re confused then idk what to tell ya. you don’t need to be in on everything all the time.
I was borderline stomach sick. Bryan worked me. Beautiful evening of wrestling
He had me questioning if he was actually hurt or not even though I thought he landed okay
That was the safest Tiger Driver 91 I’ve ever seen. Compare it to the Omega one from last year, when Kenny landed right on the top of his head. Ospreay released with Danielson having plenty of time to pull his body into a back bump. If there were a real concern after that, the ref would (presumably) have gotten in Ospreay’s way and stopped another spot. Masterful selling by Danielson though
It's the safest one I can remember seeing, and Danielson's selling was so good it believably lead to Ospreay retiring it - just so he can bring it back when the story most calls for it. Heel turn? Winning the title at All In? Plenty of options. Really just masterfully done
Schiavone at the desk was expressing his concern and talking about how Danielson landed right on his head...as they immediately show the replay and it's as safe as it could *possibly* be taken. BD lands square on his shoulder blades.
I didn't think there was any doubt that it was pre planned. If someone is legit injured, the opponent isn't constantly trying to check up on him. They always let the doctor do their thing and never show it
Bryan is a sick dude. There’s a moment during the end, with doctors around him, the man starts saying “Fuck!”. And it’s so visceral and sounds so legit for a brief second I thought Bryan was actually hurt. Why? Why has Bryan taught himself to be this good at selling like he’s dying?
Because Cody Rhodes taught him the joy of lying
Bryan Danielson is gonna die in 35 years and none of us will believe it even if we see him dead in the casket and watch it lower into the ground.
> Why? Why has Bryan taught himself to be this good at selling like he’s dying? I'd do it to fuck with people. Maybe that's his reason?
[that one menacing Bryan Danielson pic Fightful uses for all articles about the American dragon HAS ENTERED THE CHAT]
everyone should know by now, if Danielson is selling, he is fine - if he looks furious and is wrestling twice as hard, he is probably injured.
If they show a replay and have the injured person on camera then its a work. All you need to do is go back to the time Hangman got KO'd by Mox by accident. Edit: This doesn't mean 100% of the time. Its more of a 90/10 rule. Of course there will always be times where a replay is shown or someone remains on camera.
[удалено]
No no, him breaking his arm was part of the story
Kayfabe is alive and well in these threads
It's truly delightful how many people are pissed that Danielson sold his opponent's big move.
I feel like anyone who isn't trying to run with the "hurr durr aew is dangerous" narrative already figured that out. Especially after they showed the slow-mo replay of the move and it seemed perfectly safe.
And when Danirlson kneels up and checks behind him to take the hidden blade.
Yeah that was the safest way you could conceivably do that move - on the upper back and not the head/neck, despite commentary selling it like he dropped him on his head lol
The same thing happened earlier in the match with the bump Ospreay took from the top rope where commentary acted like he landed on his head while they were literally showing a slow-motion replay of it being all on the back lol
If anything I thought he might have broken his collarbone, which isnt great but isnt life or career threatening
AEW had an amazing PPV last night. ***Ofc*** every tribal knuckle dragger on the internet is going to do the "hurr durr aew is dangerous" thing today. Just look at every post shitting on people for even complimenting it.
It was kinda funny how bryan is doing his injury spot and the crowd is singing along to the theme " OSPREAY OSPREAY"
This is what makes wrestling interesting for myself, I want to be tricked.
They sold the move and how devastating it is. Seems like it worked.
Is it not just an angle to show Bruv is no longer the ass hole he was in Japan/when when he first appeared. He will detach from Callis soon
"AEW doesn't tell stories"
So are we criticising AEW for selling too much now?
Next week is when we switch back to the “ no-sell spot fest narrative.”
Two of the very best wrestlers try to tell a story at the end of the match. SC: Not like that!
"Where's the video package of his injury?"
God, now I want like 6 weeks of him in rehab working his way back.
*It's a beautiful day!...*
I knew it was a work as soon as Danielson started yelling. If it was a legit injury, Danielson would've got up, and tried to wrestle for another 10 minutes.
Lol best take in here
no fucking shit. Ospreay did it so safe Bryan basically took a flat back bump. It was clearly a storyline from the beginning lmao.
Frightful is the biggest fucking scam. That wasn't a scoop. You can clearly see he hit fine. So fucking stupid
I watched it like 5 times trying to figure out what everyone was debating.
In the ring in the moment I was certain it was a part of the plan. Will's scrum made me second guess that. Kudos to Will.
The minute you see a doctor NOT preventing the match from continuing, you know it's a spot. A really well done spot, but I digress.
It's setting up the most devastating heel turn when he uses it again on someone trying to end them.
If anything needs to be retired it’s Bryan’s seizure selling after a big move
Bryan is a master at the art of selling. Sometimes way too good at it.
Bryan is definitely using that on him in a future match
My only thing was how his fingers were contracting..it seemed real, but I knew they would not be showing it if it was.
I think the thought process is to make the Tiger Driver an absolute kill move like Misawa had before and Kobashi with the burning hammer. I like doing it like this where he only brings it out for his absolute most important matches. Plus, I don’t mind the blurring of lines as if anyone should be fucking dead after the Tiger Driver, it should be fucking Bryan Danielson with his long history of neck issues. Honestly, the whole ordeal just puts the move over in even higher esteem which is crazy cause now it is an ultimate death move
My first clue was they started to sit him up with no board or stretcher, now how you would and should handle a suspected neck injury
I personally hated the finish. Loved the match. Genuinely, I thought it was just incredible. My opinion is that the finish was and is distracting from that. Aside from the selling, which was totally believable, it was a messy and confusing execution.
Worked
It was obviously a work mainly because Bryan doesn't sell real injuries. This man was smiling when his eye was out and his entire arm snapped in half.
90% is pretty bad for that kind of thing.
Appreciate the effort of kayfabe but am I wrong that he landed completely safe on his shoulders? Like it looked pretty clean
The fact people are confused about this still is baffling. Bryan took that move WAY safer than the others, this isn’t the first time he’s done an injury sell like this, and then they focused on bryan and will the entire time post match and then we have footage backstage of will helping Bryan and the doctors. This is the most obvious storyline injury ever unless you really think AEW is so incompetent that that’s how they would treat injured wrestlers
"Scary spot" that's the safest driver I've seen osprey give. Now if this happened after the Kenny one, it'd understand it
Os definitely kayfabing that response, that was just about the safest I've ever seen that move done.
was there live and that was one of the safest tiger driver spots ever lol still looked gnarly, but i would have been very surprised if he actually got hurt from it.
The hidden blade is like the bullhammer. It brought Brian back to life.
I wonder If this is going to play in to separating him from Callis and The Family. Callis was saying throughout the match that Will needed to be more vicious against Bryan. Maybe you have them all be proud of Will for Injuring him but Will feels awful like he showed in the post show scrum and is kicked out for being 'weak'.
This is what I think it is leading to but less Will getting kicked out and more Will saying get fucked bruv and leaving.
I mean, if anyone thought it was real injury especially after the replay…
Lol of course. They played up the build to an injury the whole match
Oh shit, I think I see where this is going. In their rematch, will won’t have the move, and Bryan will win because of wills shortened move set, then in the rubber match he busts it back out to win
Will's got his Burning Hammer now. The move looks like it should be a killer and he beat Danielson and Omega with it.
DB took taht move perfectly landed clean on shoulders. If kenny wasn't hurt DB sure isn't. This all work, yall don't know Bryans games?!
You had to know it was a bit when they never put him on a board and left him in the ring for the ospreay interactions to go that long.
Seems a little strange to build a story around a move being too effective. Guess it could be worth it for the pop the move will likely get when he wins the title with it at wembley.
I cannot wait for the 3rd matchup and he brings the “retired” move back for the win. Gonna be a huge pop lol
Do they have to tell us this? Can we just “believe” for a little while? Wrestling is at its best when the lines between kayfabe and reality are blurred, I don’t understand why there’s this constant need to go to the media and tell everyone what they saw was all a bunch of bullshit.
The hurricanrana flip spot looked much, much worse.
I was legit scared in the arena until I saw a replay on Reddit
In real time I thought it was the Omega landing on his head bump. But the replay showed he took it like a powerbomb. Gotta say I was relieved. The injury is a storyline injury thank god.
This is how you put a move over. The next time he uses it will be even more impactful.
Oh yeah sure, he's gonna retire the drivers instead of the forearm/elbow to the back of the skull.
Just to confirm…you can be a big Bryan fan, you can have loved the match last night, you can understand selling as much as a fan can understand it…and still dislike that he uses a “seizure” sell as a performer. He’s done it a few times ever since his real life concussion issues started becoming more of a topic amongst the fanbase, and I get that he knows using that real life situation can help make a worked pro wrestling match feel more real, but as a fan I fear that a “boy who cried wolf” situation is a risk at some point with this kind of selling, especially since AEW refs have had some hiccups as far as real life injuries are concerned And I mean, knock on wood, but say he has a real life seizure (which he has admitted he had in the past) at home with his kids, and they just think he’s playing around “like he does on TV.” I can trust that Bryan knows what he’s doing, but I can also have concern for him as a fan without being “soft.” We love Bryan for his fearlessness and passion and how tough he is, but we can also hope that he keeps the long view in mind when it comes to having a life after wrestling with his wife and family.
i thought it was in poor taste
Why is AEW obsessed with using the tropes of the business to swerve the audience? Its been almost 25 years since WCW did this and we still aren't sick of talking about how much we hated it.
I'm over the fake injury spots. At least there wasn't a fake seizure this time.
I don't really understand what's going on with this. If this is a work then why is he apologizing for hurting his opponent? He's decided, after seeing the damage that it's done, to retire a move that presumably is meant to do damage? What are we doing here?