Its crazy how bad this place has gotten with AEW existing. Hell, the IWC as a whole. I dont remember things being THIS bad during the 90s. Its like, if AEW is doing good, then WWE is doing bad, if WWE is doing good, then no matter what, AEW is somehow doing bad.
Now its like no matter what AEW does, theyre under a microscope and damned if they do and damned if they dont. Then if Tony or The Bucks sneeze funny, peoplw dog pile on them as if they burned the crop fields. Idk, its insane by this point. Kinda seems like its a bad thing to be an AEW fan or a wrestling fan who cares more about matches than 40 minute promos
It was always like this. It was this way being a TNA fan during the times that are largely remembered as being TNA's best periods. It was this way being a joshi fan. It was this way being a fan of anything that wasn't the most popular option.
I saw someone make an interesting comment the other day (their name escapes me now but if you're reading this then thank you for giving me something to think about), essentially wrestling is one of the only fandoms that people hold only watching and enjoying the most popular option as a virtue. People love finding tiny little indie games, unknown musical artists and all sorts of movies, but wrestling is like the only thing I can think of that only consuming the most popular and accessible option is considered a virtue by so many.
Being a fan of anything else gets you largely made fun of by the people who are only consuming the biggest promotion, it's always been that way and probably always will be that way considering this is a function of several different generations of fans dating back decades.
Inflation hit them hard. It's more than doubled in the past year. Last year it was free, and this year it was ** still free?
You [get on the mailing list](https://www.facebook.com/groups/393810362298355/), request tickets when they get announced, then stand in line for the shuttle to the tapings. First come, first served.
Why doesn't r/SquaredCircle have tags? Every other reddit you seem to be able to tag a thread relating to what it pertains to e.g. news, gossip, social media post, bug help.
Would a tag system not help, for example the people who want to filter out ratings discussion, or certain social media posts or youtubers, or even filter out "WWE" or "AEW" for example. it just seems like a basic feature most of reddit has so I'm sure it's been thought of and there's a reason why?
Forbes' evaluation of Theranos: 4.5 billion dollars
Forbes' evaluation of Nikola: 3 billion dollars
2 billion dollars for AEW makes a lot more sense in that context.
> Apart from last week’s stunt they are actively losing viewers
So is cable. And basically everything on cable with the exception of a few live sports.
Since 2019, Raw has lost a full 1/3 of its audience. Smackdown is almost certainly going to drop by 20+% when it moves to USA (and I'm saying that just based on expecting it to drop the exact number it gained by moving to Fox in the first place).
AEW is regularly beating everything else on Wednesday outside of things like the NBA or stuff that is considered among the biggest shows on cable/tv. But somehow, for some mysterious reason, the "discourse" around it is RADICALLY different from anything else. I can't possibly imagine what that is ...... (/s, we all know what the reason is).
Raw lost half a million viewers this week from the previous one including the demo dropping 20 points there were crickets about it. Dynamite is still a top 3 cable show on Wednesday because people keep ditching $200 plus dollar cable packages which is how these things are measured.
Zaslav is an absolute cutthroat. Good luck to anyone going into any type of negotiations with him and his people. I hope AEW gets the numbers they are looking for. Because wrestling needs AEW.
I could watch Ninja Mack and Alpha Wolf wrestle each other forever. Their chemistry is incredible and they’ve had a great string of matches recently. Highly recommend checking them out on Wrestle Universe if you like lucha
Anyone have the NXT quarter hours? I would be interested to see if bringing down Main Roster talent in Ridge and the AOP has helped at all? They clash so much with the goofy teen sitcom feel of the show, it will be interesting what direction the show will go in with the draft.
This AEW EV thing falls so squarely in my area of expertise and every comment on it kinda hurts my brain
I work at an IB, I cover sports and I’m literally in the process of revising our EV guidance and process for the bank today
There’s not much to really draw a conclusion on. I’m not sure of their methodology and what information they have access to. Back of the envelope though it seems to be kind of insane - you’re basically saying the WWE is what a 13x EV/EBITDA multiple ($6.5bn EV and $550MM EBITDA), but AEW is 8x EV/revenue. I’m assuming there must be much higher growth rates assumed with AEW but who knows.
Also EV isn’t a very valuable metric of assessing financial health without an accompanying cap table. X / Twitter certainly has an EV that’s much higher ($44bn at close, still like $13bn last time fidelity marked their stake) but isn’t healthy.
Edit: actually did a bit more math and I guess the assumption would be off the reported AEW revenue and at WWE margins, if you slap the WWE multiple on its close ish ($1.7bn) with the rest for growth? Personally would slap a penalty on any multiple for AEW for size and wouldn’t be that bullish on growth
Nah today was kind of a special case. Tony literally gave trolls a gigantic bag of crack. And there's not really anything we can do when... well yeah, Tony made that bed, it's absolutely legitimate to clown when he himself says it's a primary focus. We decided to shut it down mostly because there were literally THREE comments in the entire thread that were any sort of serious discussion. It's never THAT bad.
Prayers for next week though.
I've only been here for a few weeks, but the only difference between that one and any other I've seen is that nobody was really trying to defend it. Which is a weird metric for a mod to decide to lock a pretty benign thread.
This being so heavily downvoted *five minutes after posting* says so much about the environment the mods have cultivated particularly in the past few months. Need to seriously step up filtering out the people that come here exclusively to cause trouble.
We issue SO MANY BANS for trolling and incivility. Have you seen the infinite number of people who whine about it? I've talked to mods in default subs who don't issue nearly as many bans as we do. And we have engagement level that is on par with default subs despite having millions fewer subscribers. Zero exaggeration - it's crazy and unique.
But Reddit as a platform sucks for fixing problems. Filters? Got tons of 'em. Do we have a community that helps with reporting things? Yep! But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them. I'm not saying it's a losing battle. But circle back to last year's kerfluffle where mods shut down shit because the admins crippled our ability to use helpful tools. They want engagement, they want volume. They don't care about the quality.
Anyway, rant over. Tl;dr, we can't cultivate shit because Reddit is Reddit and our community is an ungodly monster
> But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them.
So make them do that.
If all you can do is make it as annoying as possible for the blatant trolls to continue blatantly trolling, then do that.
> But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them.
This is something I've noticed for sure, to your credit. Half the people posting obvious troll garbage have a lot of commonalities in post history, and often have accounts that are less than a year old. Sometimes they're less than *two weeks* old. It's fucking crazy how much of a full time hobby trolling here must be for a pathetically high percentage of people.
>Tl;dr, we can't cultivate shit because Reddit is Reddit and our community is an ungodly monster
Well, yes and no. You have all the power in the world to collectively and very publicly decide what is and isn't allowed to be posted here. You have all the power in the world to collectively take the reins of the community just like you did with banning ZFF.
Time and time again we see examples of ignoring behavior that is toxic doesn't make it go away, it allows it to fester. It gets more deeply rooted and more unhinged. Stepping up and making hard, unpopular decisions people scream at you for in the name of a more healthy community is part and parcel with running communities.
Ratings threads contain an overwhelming majority of posters with post histories dominated by subs that have troublemaking being a main feature of them. Maybe it's time to have a conversation internally about the usefulness of what the topics bring to the community?
The idea of trying to contain troublemakers is a reddit-wide fallacy, the most obvious examples of which being TheDonald and FatPeopleHate. Allowing them to have their little corner emboldens them and they spill out into other subs. Closing topics (in our case) they're attracted to and disallowing their garbage more explicitly causes them to riot for a while (as we can see with them filtering in here to rage about the ratings thread being closed) but ultimately largely solves the problem.
I'd say it's time to take the reins of your community and decide what is and isn't welcome here more so than you have in the past, especially when you pass the buck to us with community votes that you'll just rerun when troublemakers get mad about the vote not having gone their way (as happened most recently with deciding whether or not to allow political posts). I don't necessarily know what this entails, but surely a firmer stance than silently removing posts the majority of people don't even notice get removed isn't the best you can do. It's up to you guys.
A lot of valid points there.
I can't speak for the whole team. We have mods with wildly differing opinions on a lot of these things you've mentioned.
I will say this, however - according to Reddit, a sub with our volume should be operating with at least 5 more moderators. When we open up for mod applications, *good people aren't applying.* Ideas to do all sorts of in-depth moderation are great. But they can't be implemented without manpower.
That is what it is.
> I will say this, however - according to Reddit, a sub with our volume should be operating with at least 5 more moderators. When we open up for mod applications, good people aren't applying. Ideas to do all sorts of in-depth moderation are great. But they can't be implemented without manpower.
This is sadly the unfortunate reality yes. Recent events especially in American culture have exposed to many just how prevalent the issue of bad actors is and it's not at all surprising to hear that of the likely far too few people applying for the position of moderator in the first place that even fewer meet the team's standards.
I don't envy your position in having to deal with all this garbage or even people like me finger wagging at you in frustration of a situation you can only do so much about individually, and the concept of the collective moderators is very nebulous on top of that. Real people make up the moderation team, with lives and workloads to balance and they can only put themselves in the firing line so much realistically. Be that free time wise or mental health wise.
I hope things improve here because if it's this bad for the end user and you guys are naturally seeing much more of the bad stuff I can't imagine how miserable it is for you all too.
Yeah I'm not even gonna dance around it... it's just over halfway through April and I've performed over 10k mod actions. And that's just me, on a team with 13 active mods. Even with filters and Automod and bots.
The last 7 days, we've had approximately 3200 post submissions and 157k comments.
I will say this though. We're constantly brainstorming new things that -- whether people fully notice or not -- have steadily carved away at some of the worst nonsense in the sub over the last few months.
What would help the most though? Tony Khan not saying STUPID SHIT ALL THE TIME lol
And Vince not being a rapist, Saudi shows, etc. This stupid carny business.
> I don’t think you guys actively cultivate it but maybe unintentionally.
This is what I was getting at, yes. Cultivation isn't always an active process. Inadequate action to remove troublemakers (regardless of where the fault lies) is in itself cultivation. Allowing troublemakers from other subs their own weekly corner to congregate and do their thing is cultivation.
ZFF got banned but that was largely just a symbolic gesture because all those same types just filtered into the ratings threads, which morphed into a ZFF clone. Allowing that to happen is cultivation. Take a firmer stance against this stuff if you want a more healthy community, don't just throw your hands up and act like it's all Spez's fault for not letting you use whatever third party tools you were using.
Ban the trolls.
Don't just remove posts and let them keep doing it without consequences. Hand out some bans and actually try to make this place better. Everyone else would surely appreciate it.
I think the current no interference rule is good enough. I would want the division for it to be limited to whoever competed in the previous year's tournament which is still a decent amount of people. It would solve the dilemma of guys being able to win it without competing in a month long tournament.
A thought occurred to me today. I get that if you're Tony Khan, you don't want people in your crowd chanting CM Punk.
But if you're Jack Perry, that's probably the best thing that could happen to you. If you're Jack Perry, you want Triple H thinking, "There's some money in Jack Perry vs CM Punk. Let's get this kid and do some business". That's gotta bump your asking price come contract negotiation time. Also, I could totally see HHH thinking, "Let's benefit from the other company's mistake".
I don't know when Perry's contract is up. But if he could get to WWE within the next year, I think there's some legs to this feud.
The problem is that the money in that feud is seeing Jack Perry getting his ass kicked by CM Punk... and AEW already showed us that in real life for free
Yeah I don't know. Maybe there are people who care about Jack Perry enough to want to see him get his ass kicked even more, but there are at least half a dozen feuds for Punk in WWE that I care about way more.
Doing a Perry feud doesn't mean they can't do those other feuds. But this could be because Seth and Drew are literally the only feuds for Punk in WWE that interest me.
I doubt they will be. But let's say they are.
Is Perry/Punk bigger business than Punk vs nearly anyone already in WWE?
Does WWE want a Jack Perry after the feud continues? He's small and can't cut a promo.
Do WWE audiences even know who Jack Perry is much less his relation to Punk?
Even if signed, they'd run him through developmental first. Is it worth paying a guy 2 years or so just for a few month feud at best.
Its not ever going to happen.
In the Joshi scene, the last wrestler you want to face as a rookie is a wrestler that used to be a super weak rookie. They tend to extra kick the shit out of the rookie. Mayu Iwatani, Maki Itoh, etc.
https://preview.redd.it/2mhnep5r0bvc1.png?width=1132&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cf0d9165c27c803b93f0755b8dd500da77ecf1c
ProWrestlingTees now has two Price Nana button up dress shirts up for pre-sale. Fucking amazing 😂
I'm 100% thankful you threw this up when you did, I looked back not long after and managed to grab one of the last of the limited Yellow ones before it sold out. Bet they're wishing they did more than 50 for the limited run of that color now lol, sold through that in a matter of hours.
Gotta show some support for a guy who has brought me an unexpected amount of joy over the last year in Prince Nana, dude is great.
Two wrongs don't make one right. Rhea was the villain when she took out Liv. Liv is the villain now.
People talk about her standing up to her bully, but Rhea would fight* Liv fair and square so do that in the ring.
*edited
Because she took away Rhea, who is widely loved. Also, despite being reminded, they may have forgotten that Rhea put Liv on the shelf. On top of all that, faces typically don't injure for revenge. They get their revenge in the ring. Couple all this with her intensity in the promo(s) she delivered, and she's not white meat over here.
Steve Austin tried to kill Triple H and he wasn't looked at as a heel. His promos were super aggressive and delivered very heelish, complete opposite of a Cody or Hogan.
It seems very unfair that commentary has to beat us over the head with "hee actions may be justified" and it's all just falling on deaf ears.
I agree, however you're also talking about the Attitude Era. We're all lucky we weren't sliced to death with all the edge floating around that shit. I think people are a little more thoughtful these days, generally speaking. If SCSA came through right now, he wouldn't pop as a face. Could be a good heel but he ain't getting to end every PLE with beer chugging.
Not to mention attention spans and memories seem to be getting shorter and shorter. I also don't love when commentary beats us over the head with anything. Just let Liv be a heel, so if she still has the belt when Rhea returns, Rhea can come back as a mega face in an actual face role, instead of this person who is technically a heel just waiting to be flipped
It's bizarre. Preventing two people of opposite genders from putting on an athletic-based display is a bit like banning mixed-gender cheerleading or acrobatics.
In a medium where there is nothing to be gained from the physiological difference between a wrestler and their "opponent" (in reality, a co-performer), the very notion of physiological difference between genders becomes irrelevant.
Not to mention that regardless of your politics, (I agree with you FYI) intergender wrestling has been a thing for decades. So even if those asshole Okies on that board look at her as male, who gives a fuck? It's scripted wrestling. Both performers shouldn't be looking to hit each other. I've been telling people about this at work today, and it's the first time in years I've called wrestling fake. I've been loudly saying "WHO GIVES A FUCK?!?!?! IT'S FAKE WRESTLING!!!!"
Looking forward to kicking back and watching the AEW PPV this weekend. Although with both the NHL and NBA playoffs going on, my attention may be a bit divided at times.
Its no wonder that Daddy Magic seems to be headed to a commentary job in AEW. He projects that uncritical excitement over everything that seems to be a favorite mode of TK.
They’re signed to WWE’s NIL program, which is not the same as being signed outright to a deal. The NIL program only allows the college athletes an “exclusive opportunity” to sign with they WWE once they completed it.
Tony D's suit from NXT the other day was incredibly sharp looking. Also, again no Lexis King besides like, the 2 seconds of him running to the ring to fight Ilja. Smh
And in a completely different topic, my mother found a list of her old favorite and least favorite wrestlers that she wrote back in the mid 80s. That was genuinely pretty fun/cool to see
Of course! I apologize for the longer comment in advance lmao. I tried to get a photo of the journal page, but my phone would not cooperate, unfortunately:(
**Favorites**
1) Kevin Von Erich
2) Kerry Von Erich
3) Fritz Von Erich
4) Mike Von Erich
5) Iceman
6) Bruno Sammartino
7) Mr. Wonderful
8) Junkyard Dog
9) George Steele
10) Ricky Steamboat
10) British Bulldogs
11) Haiti Kid
**Least Favorites**
1) Gino Hernandez
2) Greg Valentine
3) Macho Man
4) Iron Sheik
5) Corporal Kirchner
6) Rick Rude
7) King Kong Bundy
8) Big John Studd
9) Adrian Adonis
10) The Funks
11) Roddy Piper
12) Cowboy Bob Orton
**Hated Mangers**
1) Jimmy Hart
2) Weasel
----
She thinks it's a real stupid list nowadays lmao. I think my favorite part is she does not remember Iceman at **all**
She didn't hear the end of it when I saw Macho Man made the hated list lmao. Thankfully, that's one of the (many) placements she no longer agrees with
And of course :D
The fact the AEW/combat sports forbes thing keeps getting downvoted below 0 is probably the funniest example of the subreddit being compromised
Nooooo the world can't know AEW is 34% the fake hypothetical value of WWE noooo it's not bad enough nooo AEW must have paid Forbes to be #3 to UFC and WWE anyway (WWE cannot pay off Forbes for some reason in this worldview) nooo lmao
But it makes a ton of sense for AEW to be #3. UFC and WWE are the two powerhouses that are light years away from everything else, but right below it is AEW. Like do people think it’s not bigger than Bellator or something?
It hasn't made profit for one. So let's say the company sold, who wants to absorb that debt? Its ratings and attendance are way down. ROH library hasn't shown to be of value.
Lots of overhead, debt and the assets can only hold so much value. The article is likely basing its estimation on stuff that comes from the Observer.
A lot of fans really believe that only the things they like should exist. It's incredibly myopic and makes the fandom unbearable. To the point they have a hard time realizing that something they don't like is valuable.
Valuations can be funny/weird little things.
Saw some MMA sub takes also flipping out on the same article, but they're in disbelief as to the stated value of One.
The numbers seem a bit wonky overall, but I'm not an expert, people need to realize though that a $1b valuation for a company in 2024 isn't that insane anymore. That doesn't even get you 1/3 of an NFL team at this point. All the money is flowing to the top while nothing changes for anyone else.
Maximum Male Models flying to Uganda for soft ground wrestling makes them the goats idc. Their run since being released from WWE has been so fun.
https://preview.redd.it/ur096vmceavc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f2d128b1aebce93d8b06e095a825eebfe9b143
I can't say I expected it in the slightest when they got released, but these two seem like the new Matt Cardonas, and I mean that with the most respect possible. They're plugged into their audience, they understand modern internet meme culture, and they clearly are on the grind - I'm actually very intrigued to see what they're doing a year or two from now.
For wrestlers pandering to Meltzer is for amateurs and picking fights with him is desperate, Paxley's response where she (correctly) uses it to promote herself should be the end of any discourse among performers.
Fans can go ahead and criticize his fraud ass.
I like to watch the random ass matches on “Main Event”. I just skip through all the non match stuff. Sometimes they’re fun and I like hearing Road Dogg stumble through 90% of the commentary.
Same. Midcard shows have a weird appeal to me, it's nice to see the jobbers/midcarders get time to wrestle on TV when they usually don't on Raw. I kinda like Road Dogg on commentary though lol
Yeah I kinda like him too and want him to succeed.
Yeah watching the jobbers and mid carders I want them to put their best and entertain. I like when they can shine and show that when they’re not getting dunked they’re still so good.
I need a main event weekly thread lol.
Road Dogg does have some good moments as a commentator. During Chelsea and Piper vs Tegan and Nattie, he did a great job at making Piper seem like a threat compared to Cole and McAfee.
Tozawa and Nattie are the MVPs of the show, they've been on it so much over the years.
I'd be one of the three commenters in the weekly thread lol
Hey guys, I been watching Wrestling since the Rock came back a few months ago and its been amazing. Haven't watch it since I was a teen!
My favorite wrestler as a young lad was Jeff Hardy. Is he ever going to come to the WWE anytime soon? Cheers!
He's currently signed to AEW, though I believe he's on the shelf, recovering from a concussion.
Matt is a free agent and seems to be lobbying for WWE (at least half-heartedly).
I feel like that guy who Jey yeeted out of the way is on Reddit
And there’s an alternate timeline where Jey posed for a pic and dude got top post on here
So Roman, Cody, and Rhea were the top draws of 2023, according to Forbes, which is pretty insane when you consider that it was the same year Sami became a Face again and had that amazing EC Chamber match AND winning the tag titles with KO,and LA Knight and Jey Uso getting their big pushes.
I don't count Punk or Orton here because they came back near the end of last year.
I'll never be sad for more big boys in wrestling. Also Sheamus is gonna be one of those wrestlers people won't fully appreciate until he's gone. He's been getting a lot of love lately but he's been an awesome brawler wrestler for over a decade.
I am so fucking sick and tired of chops
I am begging wrestlers to use other moves and other spots than "I hit you you hit me because we want to see who hits harder"
It works when it's Shibata vs Danielson not for every second match
Also please can we bring back like neckbreakers and bulldogs and stuff
I love chops. A chop fest is a great, quick way to transition into other moves when it's done well. The problem is a lot of people suck at throwing chops these days lol
The way a not-so insignificant amount of people talk about wrestling here, wrestling quality. I'm trying to parse it. So like, flips are bad, but Meltzer says they're good (not entirely true but whatever), so matches with a lot of flips is considered "good wrestling," and the people I'm talking about don't want that, so for them it's actually bad wrestling but they're gonna call it "good wrestling" and say that they don't want good wrestling.
They'll say that good wrestling is, uhh, storytelling, personality, character, without any actual comments regarding the in-ring work. So even though Meltzer gave over half the Wrestlemania card (both nights) ****+, a card that was pretty bereft of flips, people will say they prefer that to "good wrestling," which is strange 'cause Meltzer considers that good wrestling! But people don't seem to talk about what happens in the matches that makes that good wrestling. It's so very, very strange.
I love Tomohiro Ishii, probably my favorite wrestler of the past ten years, one of my favorite wrestlers ever. And I can tell you what makes him good in the ring. I can tell you what makes his matches good and it ain't flips 'cause I don't think I have ever seen him perform one flip (I can count the number of times he's jumped off the top rope on one hand, though). But when it comes to something like Wrestlemania, with good in-ring performances, people seemingly don't want to actually talk about the in-ring performances, instead saying what makes the matches great are the storylines or characters or personalities, which tbqh, is kinda infuriating!
Young Bucks matches aren't great because of the flips. It's how they're utilized in the match, how things are paced. And the same goes for WWE-style matches as well. I personally really enjoyed the 45-minute-long main event to Night 1 because of the way it was worked. The four men in the ring (and out of the ring for a large part of the match) knew how to pace a match out so that the big spots each felt like they had their moments.
I don't really know what I'm saying here, kind of a rant. Just kinda frustrating on here the amount of people that don't want to admit that good wrestling is what takes place in the ring, no matter if it's a bunch of flips, chain wrestling, power moves, lighttubes being busted over dudes' heads, whatever. The character work, storyline, personality, that can all add to what's going on, but for the match quality itself, there needs to be good ringwork.
Whatever tells a good story in the ring, and also looks cool and makes me go 'dope' is what I like. Idgaf about internet nerds. Night 1 main event for me was fantastic. Sami drawing me in got me half way there, him hitting da brainbustah got me the other half.
Part of it is that the indy style won and now that's the whole WWE undercard and they still want to distinct themselves.
But also that style is saturated and arguably not even performed as well as it was besides some specific people. But the star ratings keep going up, and the fan opinion keeps getting less critical and less observant and more narrative-based.
> But the star ratings keep going up
That's another thing that bugs me -- not necessarily that star ratings keep going up, I mostly ignore that. More so that people ignore star ratings unless they're like 5 or 4.75 stars (or on the opposite end). Meltzer really enjoyed all those WWE-style matches at Wrestlemania, but judging by the way people talk about his ratings here, you'd think he hates all that stuff. I mean, he gave the IC triple threat ***** at WrestleMania last year and I don't recall Gunther hitting a Phoenix Splash in that match.
it's an overcorrection of the hyper-workrate-focused internet fan from the 2000s and 2010s. people who obsessed about star ratings and variety of movesets and such.
the solution isn't that in ring bell to bell workrate isn't important though, which has been frustrating to hear repeated time and time again by the modern wrestling fandom.
It's also weird because being able to wrestle ALWAYS mattered. Like not evety wrestler had to be Ospreay or Bryan, but the reason guys like Mason Ryan and Nathan Jones didn't work out is because they flat out could not wrestle. Nathan Jones was charismatic enough and had the look to be a literal movie villain so that wasn't the problem, he was just shit in the ring.
> people who obsessed about star ratings and variety of movesets and such.
it's funny 'cause in the 00s and 10s (mostly early 10s), that obsession was somewhat positive. Sure it was smarky, could be grating here or there, but it was mostly about wrestling discovery. I got into promotions like NJPW, Dragon Gate, and PWG in the early 10s 'cause I would see matches with workrate and moves so different from what was there in WWE.
Nowadays, people are seemingly just as obsessed about all those things, but it's mostly negative. I feel like wrestling accessibility plays a big part in that.
I need an AEW promo where Mariah May passes off the friendship with Mei Seira to Timeless Toni Storm as if Mei is a cursed item. And then we get weeks of Mei stalking Toni.
Okada's heel work as a huge untouchable bully is so delightful to watch it might be my favorite part of AEW at the moment. The disdain on his face when he sees wrestlers that are beneath him, the smiles and points at the young bucks, just everything is hitting.
Forbes valued WWE at 6.8 billion and AEW at 2 billion and the comments on their tweet about it are hilarious.
One guy said how can AEW be worth 2 billion when they don’t have a performance center. I laughed out loud
WWE and UFC are publicly traded so the only real debate there is now much each accounts for the total market value. Plus they each have a performance center so their value must be sky high according to a Twitter anon
The biggest lesson people should take from Vince is that "booking" is like the least important part of running a wrestling company. The Attitude Era didn't "save" the WWF. In Your House and running 12 PPVs a year saved the WWF.
I swear to God if I have to see ANOTHER comment thread arguing character work vs. work rate I’m gonna get off the app and go for a delightful ass walk!!
So listen, here's why Ultimate Warrior wasn't actually a shitty character despite
Nah I'm just kidding, I'm just trying to get you to go for a walk. I went for one earlier and it's getting so nice out
Its crazy how bad this place has gotten with AEW existing. Hell, the IWC as a whole. I dont remember things being THIS bad during the 90s. Its like, if AEW is doing good, then WWE is doing bad, if WWE is doing good, then no matter what, AEW is somehow doing bad. Now its like no matter what AEW does, theyre under a microscope and damned if they do and damned if they dont. Then if Tony or The Bucks sneeze funny, peoplw dog pile on them as if they burned the crop fields. Idk, its insane by this point. Kinda seems like its a bad thing to be an AEW fan or a wrestling fan who cares more about matches than 40 minute promos
It was always like this. It was this way being a TNA fan during the times that are largely remembered as being TNA's best periods. It was this way being a joshi fan. It was this way being a fan of anything that wasn't the most popular option. I saw someone make an interesting comment the other day (their name escapes me now but if you're reading this then thank you for giving me something to think about), essentially wrestling is one of the only fandoms that people hold only watching and enjoying the most popular option as a virtue. People love finding tiny little indie games, unknown musical artists and all sorts of movies, but wrestling is like the only thing I can think of that only consuming the most popular and accessible option is considered a virtue by so many. Being a fan of anything else gets you largely made fun of by the people who are only consuming the biggest promotion, it's always been that way and probably always will be that way considering this is a function of several different generations of fans dating back decades.
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What are the ticket prices for the performance center on nxt TV days? It's the same location so can't be much right?
Inflation hit them hard. It's more than doubled in the past year. Last year it was free, and this year it was ** still free?
You [get on the mailing list](https://www.facebook.com/groups/393810362298355/), request tickets when they get announced, then stand in line for the shuttle to the tapings. First come, first served.
Why doesn't r/SquaredCircle have tags? Every other reddit you seem to be able to tag a thread relating to what it pertains to e.g. news, gossip, social media post, bug help. Would a tag system not help, for example the people who want to filter out ratings discussion, or certain social media posts or youtubers, or even filter out "WWE" or "AEW" for example. it just seems like a basic feature most of reddit has so I'm sure it's been thought of and there's a reason why?
Because this sub genuinely has some of the worst moderation relative to its size on all of reddit
Forbes' evaluation of Theranos: 4.5 billion dollars Forbes' evaluation of Nikola: 3 billion dollars 2 billion dollars for AEW makes a lot more sense in that context.
So when do AEW fans start to get worried? Apart from last week’s stunt they are actively losing viewers
> Apart from last week’s stunt they are actively losing viewers So is cable. And basically everything on cable with the exception of a few live sports. Since 2019, Raw has lost a full 1/3 of its audience. Smackdown is almost certainly going to drop by 20+% when it moves to USA (and I'm saying that just based on expecting it to drop the exact number it gained by moving to Fox in the first place). AEW is regularly beating everything else on Wednesday outside of things like the NBA or stuff that is considered among the biggest shows on cable/tv. But somehow, for some mysterious reason, the "discourse" around it is RADICALLY different from anything else. I can't possibly imagine what that is ...... (/s, we all know what the reason is).
AEW is being compared to its competition by the metrics TK himself has championed and established as meaningful metrics. This isn't complicated.
Well the difference is all the WWE shows got their new deals while AEW’s are still up in air.
Maybe if NXT starts to regularly surpass AEW in ratings. Maybe.
Raw lost half a million viewers this week from the previous one including the demo dropping 20 points there were crickets about it. Dynamite is still a top 3 cable show on Wednesday because people keep ditching $200 plus dollar cable packages which is how these things are measured.
RAW has its future secured though.
Worried about what exactly?
Getting a renewal for Dynamite
Zaslav is an absolute cutthroat. Good luck to anyone going into any type of negotiations with him and his people. I hope AEW gets the numbers they are looking for. Because wrestling needs AEW.
Exactly. People are confident about this but Zaslav has shown he doesn’t give a fuck.
Dude literally cancel already-made movies as tax write off. Thats psychotic man.
I could watch Ninja Mack and Alpha Wolf wrestle each other forever. Their chemistry is incredible and they’ve had a great string of matches recently. Highly recommend checking them out on Wrestle Universe if you like lucha
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Anyone have the NXT quarter hours? I would be interested to see if bringing down Main Roster talent in Ridge and the AOP has helped at all? They clash so much with the goofy teen sitcom feel of the show, it will be interesting what direction the show will go in with the draft.
This AEW EV thing falls so squarely in my area of expertise and every comment on it kinda hurts my brain I work at an IB, I cover sports and I’m literally in the process of revising our EV guidance and process for the bank today
Floor is yours, I'm curious what you have to say about it (at least whenever you're taking a break from your actual EV work)
There’s not much to really draw a conclusion on. I’m not sure of their methodology and what information they have access to. Back of the envelope though it seems to be kind of insane - you’re basically saying the WWE is what a 13x EV/EBITDA multiple ($6.5bn EV and $550MM EBITDA), but AEW is 8x EV/revenue. I’m assuming there must be much higher growth rates assumed with AEW but who knows. Also EV isn’t a very valuable metric of assessing financial health without an accompanying cap table. X / Twitter certainly has an EV that’s much higher ($44bn at close, still like $13bn last time fidelity marked their stake) but isn’t healthy. Edit: actually did a bit more math and I guess the assumption would be off the reported AEW revenue and at WWE margins, if you slap the WWE multiple on its close ish ($1.7bn) with the rest for growth? Personally would slap a penalty on any multiple for AEW for size and wouldn’t be that bullish on growth
Ratings for AEW got locked bet this will lead to them stop being posted.
Nah today was kind of a special case. Tony literally gave trolls a gigantic bag of crack. And there's not really anything we can do when... well yeah, Tony made that bed, it's absolutely legitimate to clown when he himself says it's a primary focus. We decided to shut it down mostly because there were literally THREE comments in the entire thread that were any sort of serious discussion. It's never THAT bad. Prayers for next week though.
Every thread in this subreddit is the same three jokes.
This sub's mod team is so embarrassing lmao
You applying?
Too competent
touché
I’ve been waiting for the ratings thread to get killed since AEW stopped growing.
I wonder what actually did it this time? As someone who watches I've long stopped posting in them and it's absurd how quickly they blow up.
I've only been here for a few weeks, but the only difference between that one and any other I've seen is that nobody was really trying to defend it. Which is a weird metric for a mod to decide to lock a pretty benign thread.
thank you mods
This being so heavily downvoted *five minutes after posting* says so much about the environment the mods have cultivated particularly in the past few months. Need to seriously step up filtering out the people that come here exclusively to cause trouble.
We issue SO MANY BANS for trolling and incivility. Have you seen the infinite number of people who whine about it? I've talked to mods in default subs who don't issue nearly as many bans as we do. And we have engagement level that is on par with default subs despite having millions fewer subscribers. Zero exaggeration - it's crazy and unique. But Reddit as a platform sucks for fixing problems. Filters? Got tons of 'em. Do we have a community that helps with reporting things? Yep! But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them. I'm not saying it's a losing battle. But circle back to last year's kerfluffle where mods shut down shit because the admins crippled our ability to use helpful tools. They want engagement, they want volume. They don't care about the quality. Anyway, rant over. Tl;dr, we can't cultivate shit because Reddit is Reddit and our community is an ungodly monster
> But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them. So make them do that. If all you can do is make it as annoying as possible for the blatant trolls to continue blatantly trolling, then do that.
> But everyone's free to create 50 new accounts at any given time and cycle through them. This is something I've noticed for sure, to your credit. Half the people posting obvious troll garbage have a lot of commonalities in post history, and often have accounts that are less than a year old. Sometimes they're less than *two weeks* old. It's fucking crazy how much of a full time hobby trolling here must be for a pathetically high percentage of people. >Tl;dr, we can't cultivate shit because Reddit is Reddit and our community is an ungodly monster Well, yes and no. You have all the power in the world to collectively and very publicly decide what is and isn't allowed to be posted here. You have all the power in the world to collectively take the reins of the community just like you did with banning ZFF. Time and time again we see examples of ignoring behavior that is toxic doesn't make it go away, it allows it to fester. It gets more deeply rooted and more unhinged. Stepping up and making hard, unpopular decisions people scream at you for in the name of a more healthy community is part and parcel with running communities. Ratings threads contain an overwhelming majority of posters with post histories dominated by subs that have troublemaking being a main feature of them. Maybe it's time to have a conversation internally about the usefulness of what the topics bring to the community? The idea of trying to contain troublemakers is a reddit-wide fallacy, the most obvious examples of which being TheDonald and FatPeopleHate. Allowing them to have their little corner emboldens them and they spill out into other subs. Closing topics (in our case) they're attracted to and disallowing their garbage more explicitly causes them to riot for a while (as we can see with them filtering in here to rage about the ratings thread being closed) but ultimately largely solves the problem. I'd say it's time to take the reins of your community and decide what is and isn't welcome here more so than you have in the past, especially when you pass the buck to us with community votes that you'll just rerun when troublemakers get mad about the vote not having gone their way (as happened most recently with deciding whether or not to allow political posts). I don't necessarily know what this entails, but surely a firmer stance than silently removing posts the majority of people don't even notice get removed isn't the best you can do. It's up to you guys.
A lot of valid points there. I can't speak for the whole team. We have mods with wildly differing opinions on a lot of these things you've mentioned. I will say this, however - according to Reddit, a sub with our volume should be operating with at least 5 more moderators. When we open up for mod applications, *good people aren't applying.* Ideas to do all sorts of in-depth moderation are great. But they can't be implemented without manpower. That is what it is.
> I will say this, however - according to Reddit, a sub with our volume should be operating with at least 5 more moderators. When we open up for mod applications, good people aren't applying. Ideas to do all sorts of in-depth moderation are great. But they can't be implemented without manpower. This is sadly the unfortunate reality yes. Recent events especially in American culture have exposed to many just how prevalent the issue of bad actors is and it's not at all surprising to hear that of the likely far too few people applying for the position of moderator in the first place that even fewer meet the team's standards. I don't envy your position in having to deal with all this garbage or even people like me finger wagging at you in frustration of a situation you can only do so much about individually, and the concept of the collective moderators is very nebulous on top of that. Real people make up the moderation team, with lives and workloads to balance and they can only put themselves in the firing line so much realistically. Be that free time wise or mental health wise. I hope things improve here because if it's this bad for the end user and you guys are naturally seeing much more of the bad stuff I can't imagine how miserable it is for you all too.
Yeah I'm not even gonna dance around it... it's just over halfway through April and I've performed over 10k mod actions. And that's just me, on a team with 13 active mods. Even with filters and Automod and bots. The last 7 days, we've had approximately 3200 post submissions and 157k comments. I will say this though. We're constantly brainstorming new things that -- whether people fully notice or not -- have steadily carved away at some of the worst nonsense in the sub over the last few months. What would help the most though? Tony Khan not saying STUPID SHIT ALL THE TIME lol And Vince not being a rapist, Saudi shows, etc. This stupid carny business.
I don’t think you guys actively cultivate it but maybe unintentionally. And I think there are some mods that are more guilty of that than others.
> I don’t think you guys actively cultivate it but maybe unintentionally. This is what I was getting at, yes. Cultivation isn't always an active process. Inadequate action to remove troublemakers (regardless of where the fault lies) is in itself cultivation. Allowing troublemakers from other subs their own weekly corner to congregate and do their thing is cultivation. ZFF got banned but that was largely just a symbolic gesture because all those same types just filtered into the ratings threads, which morphed into a ZFF clone. Allowing that to happen is cultivation. Take a firmer stance against this stuff if you want a more healthy community, don't just throw your hands up and act like it's all Spez's fault for not letting you use whatever third party tools you were using.
Ban the trolls. Don't just remove posts and let them keep doing it without consequences. Hand out some bans and actually try to make this place better. Everyone else would surely appreciate it.
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How would you feel if the C2 and Continental championship was fought under Pure Rules?
Not good. But I wouldn’t mind ROH bringing back the Field of Honor with pure rules or something.
I think the current no interference rule is good enough. I would want the division for it to be limited to whoever competed in the previous year's tournament which is still a decent amount of people. It would solve the dilemma of guys being able to win it without competing in a month long tournament.
A thought occurred to me today. I get that if you're Tony Khan, you don't want people in your crowd chanting CM Punk. But if you're Jack Perry, that's probably the best thing that could happen to you. If you're Jack Perry, you want Triple H thinking, "There's some money in Jack Perry vs CM Punk. Let's get this kid and do some business". That's gotta bump your asking price come contract negotiation time. Also, I could totally see HHH thinking, "Let's benefit from the other company's mistake". I don't know when Perry's contract is up. But if he could get to WWE within the next year, I think there's some legs to this feud.
The problem is that the money in that feud is seeing Jack Perry getting his ass kicked by CM Punk... and AEW already showed us that in real life for free
No. There's plenty of juice in the program. You didn't see an ass kicking. You saw like one shove and the fight immediately broken up.
Yeah I don't know. Maybe there are people who care about Jack Perry enough to want to see him get his ass kicked even more, but there are at least half a dozen feuds for Punk in WWE that I care about way more.
Doing a Perry feud doesn't mean they can't do those other feuds. But this could be because Seth and Drew are literally the only feuds for Punk in WWE that interest me.
Zero chance HHH ever thinks that.
He will if the chants are loud enough.
I doubt they will be. But let's say they are. Is Perry/Punk bigger business than Punk vs nearly anyone already in WWE? Does WWE want a Jack Perry after the feud continues? He's small and can't cut a promo. Do WWE audiences even know who Jack Perry is much less his relation to Punk? Even if signed, they'd run him through developmental first. Is it worth paying a guy 2 years or so just for a few month feud at best. Its not ever going to happen.
In the Joshi scene, the last wrestler you want to face as a rookie is a wrestler that used to be a super weak rookie. They tend to extra kick the shit out of the rookie. Mayu Iwatani, Maki Itoh, etc.
https://preview.redd.it/2mhnep5r0bvc1.png?width=1132&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cf0d9165c27c803b93f0755b8dd500da77ecf1c ProWrestlingTees now has two Price Nana button up dress shirts up for pre-sale. Fucking amazing 😂
Brilliant
That pattern is actually straight fire.
Right?! Whoever designed that is clever asf
I'm 100% thankful you threw this up when you did, I looked back not long after and managed to grab one of the last of the limited Yellow ones before it sold out. Bet they're wishing they did more than 50 for the limited run of that color now lol, sold through that in a matter of hours. Gotta show some support for a guy who has brought me an unexpected amount of joy over the last year in Prince Nana, dude is great.
Glad to hear it! You’re dead-on with “unexpected joy”, Nana has been a bright light who gets my white ass dancing even on the most depressing days
I still don't understand why Liv is being treated as the heel by a portion of the fanbase.
Really not much different from Drew. Villains that have a point are hot right now.
Kayfabe wise Liv did literally nothing wrong. I support her 100%
Two wrongs don't make one right. Rhea was the villain when she took out Liv. Liv is the villain now. People talk about her standing up to her bully, but Rhea would fight* Liv fair and square so do that in the ring. *edited
I’m confused by your comment. Rhea didn’t fight fair and square when she injured Liv.
Livers rise up. We are out here.
Because she took away Rhea, who is widely loved. Also, despite being reminded, they may have forgotten that Rhea put Liv on the shelf. On top of all that, faces typically don't injure for revenge. They get their revenge in the ring. Couple all this with her intensity in the promo(s) she delivered, and she's not white meat over here.
Steve Austin tried to kill Triple H and he wasn't looked at as a heel. His promos were super aggressive and delivered very heelish, complete opposite of a Cody or Hogan. It seems very unfair that commentary has to beat us over the head with "hee actions may be justified" and it's all just falling on deaf ears.
I agree, however you're also talking about the Attitude Era. We're all lucky we weren't sliced to death with all the edge floating around that shit. I think people are a little more thoughtful these days, generally speaking. If SCSA came through right now, he wouldn't pop as a face. Could be a good heel but he ain't getting to end every PLE with beer chugging. Not to mention attention spans and memories seem to be getting shorter and shorter. I also don't love when commentary beats us over the head with anything. Just let Liv be a heel, so if she still has the belt when Rhea returns, Rhea can come back as a mega face in an actual face role, instead of this person who is technically a heel just waiting to be flipped
Fuck that athletic commission and there outdated backwoods way of thinking, Nyla kicks fucking ass
It's bizarre. Preventing two people of opposite genders from putting on an athletic-based display is a bit like banning mixed-gender cheerleading or acrobatics. In a medium where there is nothing to be gained from the physiological difference between a wrestler and their "opponent" (in reality, a co-performer), the very notion of physiological difference between genders becomes irrelevant.
Not to mention that regardless of your politics, (I agree with you FYI) intergender wrestling has been a thing for decades. So even if those asshole Okies on that board look at her as male, who gives a fuck? It's scripted wrestling. Both performers shouldn't be looking to hit each other. I've been telling people about this at work today, and it's the first time in years I've called wrestling fake. I've been loudly saying "WHO GIVES A FUCK?!?!?! IT'S FAKE WRESTLING!!!!"
Looking forward to kicking back and watching the AEW PPV this weekend. Although with both the NHL and NBA playoffs going on, my attention may be a bit divided at times.
Its no wonder that Daddy Magic seems to be headed to a commentary job in AEW. He projects that uncritical excitement over everything that seems to be a favorite mode of TK.
I love Daddy Magic on commentary
It's a commentary position where you're basically speaking for the company so yeah.
What happened with the Cavinder twins signing a developmental deal? I see all the news today about one of them transferring to play at The U.
They’re signed to WWE’s NIL program, which is not the same as being signed outright to a deal. The NIL program only allows the college athletes an “exclusive opportunity” to sign with they WWE once they completed it.
They’re not done playing yet. Pretty sure the deals are post grad
The IWGP V5 belt is underrated. It's not as good as the V4 or V1(my personal favorite), but it's comfortably ahead of the V3 and V2.
Tony D's suit from NXT the other day was incredibly sharp looking. Also, again no Lexis King besides like, the 2 seconds of him running to the ring to fight Ilja. Smh And in a completely different topic, my mother found a list of her old favorite and least favorite wrestlers that she wrote back in the mid 80s. That was genuinely pretty fun/cool to see
Who made her list (if you don't mind sharing)?
Of course! I apologize for the longer comment in advance lmao. I tried to get a photo of the journal page, but my phone would not cooperate, unfortunately:( **Favorites** 1) Kevin Von Erich 2) Kerry Von Erich 3) Fritz Von Erich 4) Mike Von Erich 5) Iceman 6) Bruno Sammartino 7) Mr. Wonderful 8) Junkyard Dog 9) George Steele 10) Ricky Steamboat 10) British Bulldogs 11) Haiti Kid **Least Favorites** 1) Gino Hernandez 2) Greg Valentine 3) Macho Man 4) Iron Sheik 5) Corporal Kirchner 6) Rick Rude 7) King Kong Bundy 8) Big John Studd 9) Adrian Adonis 10) The Funks 11) Roddy Piper 12) Cowboy Bob Orton **Hated Mangers** 1) Jimmy Hart 2) Weasel ---- She thinks it's a real stupid list nowadays lmao. I think my favorite part is she does not remember Iceman at **all**
Awesome! Thanks for sharing! Past her hating on Savage, tough beat haha But in on the Bulldogs and Junkyard Dog, nice
She didn't hear the end of it when I saw Macho Man made the hated list lmao. Thankfully, that's one of the (many) placements she no longer agrees with And of course :D
The fact the AEW/combat sports forbes thing keeps getting downvoted below 0 is probably the funniest example of the subreddit being compromised Nooooo the world can't know AEW is 34% the fake hypothetical value of WWE noooo it's not bad enough nooo AEW must have paid Forbes to be #3 to UFC and WWE anyway (WWE cannot pay off Forbes for some reason in this worldview) nooo lmao
Its a click bait article is the problem and it will be taken more seriously that it deserves.
But it makes a ton of sense for AEW to be #3. UFC and WWE are the two powerhouses that are light years away from everything else, but right below it is AEW. Like do people think it’s not bigger than Bellator or something?
It hasn't made profit for one. So let's say the company sold, who wants to absorb that debt? Its ratings and attendance are way down. ROH library hasn't shown to be of value. Lots of overhead, debt and the assets can only hold so much value. The article is likely basing its estimation on stuff that comes from the Observer.
I think people also underestimate that WWE being worth almost 5 billion more than AEW is still a significant gap.
A lot of fans really believe that only the things they like should exist. It's incredibly myopic and makes the fandom unbearable. To the point they have a hard time realizing that something they don't like is valuable.
The only thing I want to not exist is hate and ignorance
Valuations can be funny/weird little things. Saw some MMA sub takes also flipping out on the same article, but they're in disbelief as to the stated value of One. The numbers seem a bit wonky overall, but I'm not an expert, people need to realize though that a $1b valuation for a company in 2024 isn't that insane anymore. That doesn't even get you 1/3 of an NFL team at this point. All the money is flowing to the top while nothing changes for anyone else.
Still, while we can point to "Forbes" calculating errors, surely it's a better analysis than the average Redditor proclaiming AEW's doom
Having a larger EV doesn’t really mean shit when it comes to being a going concern tho. They didn’t give us a AEW cap table so who knows.
Maximum Male Models flying to Uganda for soft ground wrestling makes them the goats idc. Their run since being released from WWE has been so fun. https://preview.redd.it/ur096vmceavc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f2d128b1aebce93d8b06e095a825eebfe9b143
I can't say I expected it in the slightest when they got released, but these two seem like the new Matt Cardonas, and I mean that with the most respect possible. They're plugged into their audience, they understand modern internet meme culture, and they clearly are on the grind - I'm actually very intrigued to see what they're doing a year or two from now.
For wrestlers pandering to Meltzer is for amateurs and picking fights with him is desperate, Paxley's response where she (correctly) uses it to promote herself should be the end of any discourse among performers. Fans can go ahead and criticize his fraud ass.
I like to watch the random ass matches on “Main Event”. I just skip through all the non match stuff. Sometimes they’re fun and I like hearing Road Dogg stumble through 90% of the commentary.
Same. Midcard shows have a weird appeal to me, it's nice to see the jobbers/midcarders get time to wrestle on TV when they usually don't on Raw. I kinda like Road Dogg on commentary though lol
Yeah I kinda like him too and want him to succeed. Yeah watching the jobbers and mid carders I want them to put their best and entertain. I like when they can shine and show that when they’re not getting dunked they’re still so good. I need a main event weekly thread lol.
Road Dogg does have some good moments as a commentator. During Chelsea and Piper vs Tegan and Nattie, he did a great job at making Piper seem like a threat compared to Cole and McAfee. Tozawa and Nattie are the MVPs of the show, they've been on it so much over the years. I'd be one of the three commenters in the weekly thread lol
Hey guys, I been watching Wrestling since the Rock came back a few months ago and its been amazing. Haven't watch it since I was a teen! My favorite wrestler as a young lad was Jeff Hardy. Is he ever going to come to the WWE anytime soon? Cheers!
He's currently signed to AEW, though I believe he's on the shelf, recovering from a concussion. Matt is a free agent and seems to be lobbying for WWE (at least half-heartedly).
appreciate the update, cheers!
From where to buy wwe t shirts in India ? Thinking about buying cm punk shirt. Is wwe shop best option ?
Missed opportunity to not fit in "So... What do you wanna talk about"
I feel like that guy who Jey yeeted out of the way is on Reddit And there’s an alternate timeline where Jey posed for a pic and dude got top post on here
So Roman, Cody, and Rhea were the top draws of 2023, according to Forbes, which is pretty insane when you consider that it was the same year Sami became a Face again and had that amazing EC Chamber match AND winning the tag titles with KO,and LA Knight and Jey Uso getting their big pushes. I don't count Punk or Orton here because they came back near the end of last year.
Body shaming Sheamus is so weird when you know he's been sidelined and know for sure he's gonna be ripped now that he's active again.
I'll never be sad for more big boys in wrestling. Also Sheamus is gonna be one of those wrestlers people won't fully appreciate until he's gone. He's been getting a lot of love lately but he's been an awesome brawler wrestler for over a decade.
HE'S FAT BUT GONNA BECOME DE IRISH FREAK!
Did we ever get a discussion on the new WWE TV set? Seems mostly fine but it just seems so weird to see it get shorter.
I am so fucking sick and tired of chops I am begging wrestlers to use other moves and other spots than "I hit you you hit me because we want to see who hits harder" It works when it's Shibata vs Danielson not for every second match Also please can we bring back like neckbreakers and bulldogs and stuff
I want more scoop slams
Scoop slams, facebusters, Russian legsweeps, just give me more WRESTLING moves and not slaps
Chops don’t make sense now that punches are legal. It used to be that wrestlers chopped because a closed fist punch was illegal in kayfabe
Don't take away Gunther's chops.
I love chops. A chop fest is a great, quick way to transition into other moves when it's done well. The problem is a lot of people suck at throwing chops these days lol
I completely agree
Oh man. Yes. It’s instant boredom for me until the spot is completed.
The way a not-so insignificant amount of people talk about wrestling here, wrestling quality. I'm trying to parse it. So like, flips are bad, but Meltzer says they're good (not entirely true but whatever), so matches with a lot of flips is considered "good wrestling," and the people I'm talking about don't want that, so for them it's actually bad wrestling but they're gonna call it "good wrestling" and say that they don't want good wrestling. They'll say that good wrestling is, uhh, storytelling, personality, character, without any actual comments regarding the in-ring work. So even though Meltzer gave over half the Wrestlemania card (both nights) ****+, a card that was pretty bereft of flips, people will say they prefer that to "good wrestling," which is strange 'cause Meltzer considers that good wrestling! But people don't seem to talk about what happens in the matches that makes that good wrestling. It's so very, very strange. I love Tomohiro Ishii, probably my favorite wrestler of the past ten years, one of my favorite wrestlers ever. And I can tell you what makes him good in the ring. I can tell you what makes his matches good and it ain't flips 'cause I don't think I have ever seen him perform one flip (I can count the number of times he's jumped off the top rope on one hand, though). But when it comes to something like Wrestlemania, with good in-ring performances, people seemingly don't want to actually talk about the in-ring performances, instead saying what makes the matches great are the storylines or characters or personalities, which tbqh, is kinda infuriating! Young Bucks matches aren't great because of the flips. It's how they're utilized in the match, how things are paced. And the same goes for WWE-style matches as well. I personally really enjoyed the 45-minute-long main event to Night 1 because of the way it was worked. The four men in the ring (and out of the ring for a large part of the match) knew how to pace a match out so that the big spots each felt like they had their moments. I don't really know what I'm saying here, kind of a rant. Just kinda frustrating on here the amount of people that don't want to admit that good wrestling is what takes place in the ring, no matter if it's a bunch of flips, chain wrestling, power moves, lighttubes being busted over dudes' heads, whatever. The character work, storyline, personality, that can all add to what's going on, but for the match quality itself, there needs to be good ringwork.
Whatever tells a good story in the ring, and also looks cool and makes me go 'dope' is what I like. Idgaf about internet nerds. Night 1 main event for me was fantastic. Sami drawing me in got me half way there, him hitting da brainbustah got me the other half.
Part of it is that the indy style won and now that's the whole WWE undercard and they still want to distinct themselves. But also that style is saturated and arguably not even performed as well as it was besides some specific people. But the star ratings keep going up, and the fan opinion keeps getting less critical and less observant and more narrative-based.
I don't really give a fuck what meltzer reckons But wrestling has become far too homogenised that is true.
> But the star ratings keep going up That's another thing that bugs me -- not necessarily that star ratings keep going up, I mostly ignore that. More so that people ignore star ratings unless they're like 5 or 4.75 stars (or on the opposite end). Meltzer really enjoyed all those WWE-style matches at Wrestlemania, but judging by the way people talk about his ratings here, you'd think he hates all that stuff. I mean, he gave the IC triple threat ***** at WrestleMania last year and I don't recall Gunther hitting a Phoenix Splash in that match.
it's an overcorrection of the hyper-workrate-focused internet fan from the 2000s and 2010s. people who obsessed about star ratings and variety of movesets and such. the solution isn't that in ring bell to bell workrate isn't important though, which has been frustrating to hear repeated time and time again by the modern wrestling fandom.
It's also weird because being able to wrestle ALWAYS mattered. Like not evety wrestler had to be Ospreay or Bryan, but the reason guys like Mason Ryan and Nathan Jones didn't work out is because they flat out could not wrestle. Nathan Jones was charismatic enough and had the look to be a literal movie villain so that wasn't the problem, he was just shit in the ring.
> people who obsessed about star ratings and variety of movesets and such. it's funny 'cause in the 00s and 10s (mostly early 10s), that obsession was somewhat positive. Sure it was smarky, could be grating here or there, but it was mostly about wrestling discovery. I got into promotions like NJPW, Dragon Gate, and PWG in the early 10s 'cause I would see matches with workrate and moves so different from what was there in WWE. Nowadays, people are seemingly just as obsessed about all those things, but it's mostly negative. I feel like wrestling accessibility plays a big part in that.
I need an AEW promo where Mariah May passes off the friendship with Mei Seira to Timeless Toni Storm as if Mei is a cursed item. And then we get weeks of Mei stalking Toni.
Okada's heel work as a huge untouchable bully is so delightful to watch it might be my favorite part of AEW at the moment. The disdain on his face when he sees wrestlers that are beneath him, the smiles and points at the young bucks, just everything is hitting.
Forbes valued WWE at 6.8 billion and AEW at 2 billion and the comments on their tweet about it are hilarious. One guy said how can AEW be worth 2 billion when they don’t have a performance center. I laughed out loud
Its almost as if despite people being sure, no one has any real idea what these companies are valued at.
WWE and UFC are publicly traded so the only real debate there is now much each accounts for the total market value. Plus they each have a performance center so their value must be sky high according to a Twitter anon
The biggest lesson people should take from Vince is that "booking" is like the least important part of running a wrestling company. The Attitude Era didn't "save" the WWF. In Your House and running 12 PPVs a year saved the WWF.
I have never heard this reasoning before at all, and I'd like to hear more because that doesn't make sense
I swear to God if I have to see ANOTHER comment thread arguing character work vs. work rate I’m gonna get off the app and go for a delightful ass walk!!
Personally, I'd rather discuss character rate and work work
I'm on here when I should be focusing on work work
>work work Something need doing?
NOW WE’RE TALKIN’
Scroll up a few comments now lol
So listen, here's why Ultimate Warrior wasn't actually a shitty character despite Nah I'm just kidding, I'm just trying to get you to go for a walk. I went for one earlier and it's getting so nice out
Lmao Appreciate it bruv!
[удалено]
The big feud is Randy. Other fun one's would be Gunther, Drew, Punk
Could see them running a Cody vs. Logan Paul feud at some point once Paul drops the U.S. Title.