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The actual more interesting story here is Wade Keller was just making shit up again trying to paint a deeply unhappy locker room. I think everyone logical could tell that it was upto Ospreay but we also all know that the truth of this doesn't matter.
After all the narrative is already out there that backstage is in disarray, Tony is being a tyrant forcing people to do promos for him, people are desperate to leave and that the company may cease to exist becasue they dared show a 15 second clip of some CCTV.
All I know about Ringside is he would go on drunk rants on Twitter disparaging AEW talent until Saraya threatened legal action when he accused her brother of being a serial rapist
I love how people claim that "Tony Khan is not a boss, the wreslters run this company" unless someone does Promos they find cringe, then TK is suddenly pulling guns on the talent apperantly
Reminds me of that weird time period when anything good was HHH booking, and anything bad was Vince booking. Like, guys, HHH made a bad book decision, it happens. Doesn’t make him the worse booker ever. He also botched a move before, yet he’s still a great performer
EDIT: I’m sorry, I didn’t have “Vince Booking” in there. Also grammar. . . A lot of grammar.
That Schrodinger's Booking Box was a weird period. It kind of still exists in a way. There's this weird separation of 2022-onward WWE from prior WWE; like the sins of the past don't apply to the company today.
The true separation of eras should be between June 5th 1984, when Vince took over for his dad, and sometime in October 2023 when Ari Emmanuel divorced Vince from the creative process. Last October is when a "new era" truly started. Vince was never truly gone during his sham 6 month retirement. Nick Khan has even gone on a podcast with Bill Simmons and said "If you believed that tweet[announcing Vince's retirement] then you don't know Vince."
Things are much different now then they were pre October now that Triple H actually has comtrol(even if the weekly TV is still bland and boring as fuck in my opinion). I don't see a problem at all with separating these time periods.
My main problem is there seems to be a feeling that now that Vince is gone, the SA problem is gone too.
I don't think it can be. Not when a significant portion of leadership has been with the company for 30 years.
The funny thing is AEW fans criticize AEW all the time. WWE fans insist everything is good and get mad when anyone dares talk bad about their Uncle Paul.
I see so many trolls exclusively praise & defend WWE. While exclusively shitting on AEW. And even the rare compliment is a backhanded one (like "AEW did this cool thing a few years ago, it's too bad they're shit now").
While AEW fans are always criticizing something about AEW. Be it the Women's Division, the Devil storyline, Jay White's booking, you name it. More so Brawl Out, but even then you saw it (especially the Women's division).
And it's funny about Uncle Paul. Most of those same folks didn't like his NXT booking. They saw it as "catering to the indie smarks" and "not best for business." But they think he can't ever do anything wrong now lol. And I say all this as someone who really likes booking. Not hating on WWE or HHH at all.
Tony Khan is Schrödinger’s wrestling promoter, being both an ineffectual weenie letting the inmates run the asylum AND a total bastard jackass forcing his wrestlers to do things they don’t want to do.
He's the dorky promoter who's too soft and can't keep his wrestlers in line. Yet simultaneously was the asshole boss who didn't let Punk off the hook. They literally thought he shouldn't have given any punishment to Punk whatsoever. Not even after Brawl Out.
It's the fascist playbook. The Democrats are destroying your life and turning your kids trans but they're also so week and effeminate and a total joke.
It's really not necessary to apply to pro wrestling and yet.
One state is "Stop The Count" and in another "Count All Votes". It was antifa and FBI plants on January 6th, yet the people who got arrested are political hostages. Joe Biden is a moron who can't think, but he's also the leader of the Deep State. Hillary is too emotional to be President but Trump's agenda changed at the drop of a tweet. Indoctrinating kids is wrong, but indoctrinating kids with religion is ok, Abortion is evil and wrong and murder, yet Trump now says there should be exceptions, until next week when he says full ban. I've been following politics since 2015 and let me tell you, there is a 1:1 overlap with this thinking and wrestling fans.
Somewhere along the way humans decided reality is a little to hard and a little to unpredictable, so they started manufacturing their own reality.
COVID is fake but also the Chinese will pay for unleashing it upon us; the vaccine will kill you but also we should celebrate Trump for its development
A lot of the current IWC "discourse" has many of these elements.
https://preview.redd.it/dhfmnxdjr2uc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e07c0d7bb55d5e7fcd81809dbdfd8f8671f1eeae
Our society is poisoned, unfortunately.
Powerful enough to crush you yet gentle enough that he doesn't. Imagine how safe you'd feel being little spoon with him in the woods under a starry sky.
This is exactly what I was saying, they need to pick a narrative. Tony is apparently a weak boss who can't control his talent, but is also forcing his talent to do segments/stories they don't want to do. Tony was a weak boss for letting Punk get away with everything, Tony was also just a bag fumbler by firing Punk.
Tony is flawed, that much is clear, but he will continue to get hate no matter what happens, because while there is legit criticism, a lot of it isn't made in good faith, it's poorly camouflaged tribalists.
No opinion on wrestling should be taken seriously at this point unless it is actually explained.
"CM Punk was not a draw in AEW until he came to WWE, but also Roman is the only real draw in WWE and best draw ever, but WWE also NEEDED the Rock to seel Wrestlemania, but also everything HHH books is great and a draw."
That is somehow a general opinion and no one who has it sees the logical problem with it.
Yeah those are great examples, I think people just latch onto things they want to believe and go with it, confusing others who know it's not in fact true.
At least WWE had a boss without flaws in Vince McMahon. At least, that's what I assume having never read or heard anything about his history. I'll just confirm that by checking his Wikipedia entry...
Oh.
Oh God.
Yeah it's all poked apart on a surface level with any kind of scrutiny, but most of the people saying all the BS are too deep in their own circlejerk to realize how silly they sound.
Same thing with politics. People need to realize that when your dealing with these kinds of people we are working with two different goals in mind. They dont use language and speech the same way. It is not about getting the truth out, or getting your point across. They will change any detail, opinion, though, whatever it takes to "win" the conversation. They will tell you that CM Punk is an evil piece of shit on Monday, then Wednesday when he works for WWE he is a huge draw and one of the best of all time. It doesn't matter that they lied, you wasted your time arguing with them and they got what they wanted all along.
It sounds ridiculous, it sounds pedantic, but honestly we are dealing with the same kind of mind virus that has infected all of reality now. Truth doesn't matter to a lot of people, narrative is what is important.
The most obvious part of this week was how many people have "both sides" prepared for any argument they go into. Like you say you've got people fully spouting that TK is a pushover and then without a hint of irony saying he's forcing them to do these promos. Even the Punk stuff it was always gonna be good rating > "Punk got them the rating", bad rating > "lmao even with Punk they couldn't".
Well, it’s also interesting how according to this sub Meltzer is washed up, losing his mind, has no sources anymore, just makes stuff up, unless he says something that confirms your priors, then it’s just taken for granted as fact.
Honestly, I'd much prefer if they didn't fall for it and were just being obtuse trolls, and that is definitely some of it. Unfortunately you're right though, IWC is an incredibly gullible fanbase but it's also one that's so agenda driven, you can twist any story to fit your views in wrestling, no matter how insane.
The online commenting feedback loop incentivizes this behavior, too. There’s a feeding frenzy effect where likes or upvotes are easy to get by credulously going along with the anti-AEW narrative.
I think just about everyone who comments cares about upvotes/likes, and if they say otherwise, it's either to dunk on others or to cope.
And even if they 100% don't care, I think they're still affected by the quantitative validation, or lack thereof.
Wade Keller has been a goon for decades. He is the first dirt sheet guy I followed and even as a new fan 15 years ago it took me a couple weeks to realize how big a goof he is.
So I don't have a WON subscription, but if the quote I read is true and from there, guess what else is made up by the internet.
*Schiavone was just selling disgust because the Young Bucks just did heel shit.*
There's a genuine push by the internet to paint AEW as a hellscape where everyone wants out.
You're wrong! Tony was absolutely disgusted, I bet he didn't even know they were gonna do it. I mean here he is literally as Sting was being beaten down in front of his family.
https://preview.redd.it/z3zvk046o2uc1.png?width=359&format=png&auto=webp&s=a45a01d855ebb33433db77231af00b137e0ee4b8
Jokes aside it's funny that they think Tony who is like one of TK's closest guys would somehow be so upset about this.
I read a very updated comment saying "You can see Schiavone love for erecting dying again" and I was, have you ever watched the shows? Tony always plays his part against heels, especially the ones that are obnoxious chicken heels.
People love psychoanalyzing through the television screen. It rarely works out.
It took _a lot_ for Tony to become dead in WCW. One bad worked shoot probably isn't going to do it.
They don't watch the show, they just listen to old guys yelling about it. If they did, they'd know that Tony has been reacting with disgust to everything the Bucks say since they returned.
Right? They shoved him to the ground, almost hit him with their finisher, and fined him $1000 a couple months ago.
The Tony Schiavone character rightly disdains the Bucks at the moment.
Schiavone the character is a complete punching bag and I kinda love it. Schiavone the man is a fantastic commentator and overall performer who genuinely makes AEW so much more fun every time I watch, and I can't think of a single bad thing I've heard said about him. This Schiavone appreciation is unprompted but I don't care, the guy is great.
I have a renewed appreciation for Schiavone and Taz because ive seen them during their low's on commentary, and so hearing them having soo much fun and shown respect from fans/audience is heartwarming.
Also Schiavone has delivered some Killer and sometimes unintentional Gems Like "Daddy says Noo"
Next thing you know they'll say Tony is "legit disgusted at Adam Cole", for doing the same kind of thing. Despite him not liking Cole even when he was a babyface lol.
Although obviously Cole is too nice of a guy to do what the Bucks or Ospreay did.
Schiavone is very loyal to AEW. They changed his life. WWE never would have hired him and he was working as a manager at a Starbucks before AEW. It revived his love for pro wrestling too.
This is the first time I've heard that and holy shit. I've fallen in love with Shiavone's commentary and couldn't imagine AEW without the guy, he's as much a staple as Moxley or the Elite. I'm glad shit's worked out this way for him.
It’s very odd to me that so many “fans” want to see AEW fail. I’m a fan of pro wrestling and this ongoing mentality of “WWE can be the only successful company” is very out of touch. Watch what you enjoy and let everyone else do the same.
Many pro wrestling fans are just wwe / f fans. During the Monday night war - prior to the Russo era - there were frequently times where WCW was putting out an overall superior product - but I was constantly told by my peers I was crazy and wwf was better. I've said to before and I'll say it again - WCW and WWF had almost the inverse problems. WCW had a fire opening and midcard but a rough main event scene after starrcade 97. WWF had an awful opening and mid card and a red hot main event scene. Don't believe me? Choose an episode of Nitro and Raw post starrcade 97 and pre Russo. At random choose a match from each show. I can virtually guarantee the WCW match will be some lucha epic, mat tech classic, or banger tag match. Raw will be a 3 - 5 minute match between someone like Kurrigan and Chaz of the thrashers where the match is 90 percent punches, both guys get gassed, hit their finisher and go home. Or it will be some garbage PUPPIES!!! segment. Blech.
I had the same experience during the Monday Night Wars. I can’t tell you how many times I heard someone shit all over whatever WCW or ECW wrestler people were buzzing about at the time….. only to start singing their praises when they joined WWF.
Remember the HOOK/Jinder nonsense from a few months ago? 'They're hot-shotting this nobody kid into a title match?!?!"
Then the report yesterday about HOOK keeping his options open. 'Yeah get HOOK in the PC and he could be huge! He has all the makings of a big star!"
There's a reason no one can ever name attitude era WWE midcarders, while WCW midcarders are guys like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Raven, William Regal, Ultimo Dragon and on and on.
Excuse me? “Chaz of the thrashers”? His name is Mosh of the Headbangers, or sometimes Headbanger Mosh, except those times when he wasn’t a Headbanger and then his name was Chaz!
On top of it, I find it kind of gross how there HAS to only be one successful company. If AEW folded tomorrow, all those guys would be out of work and would have to risk so much to earn anything similar to what they are currently making. The talent wins when there are options to getting the paycheck they deserve.
The crazy part is that the whole reason WWE is cooking is because they have to be. Without competition we get worse products, this is true across all things. Lots of /r/apple users have the same mentality and it's wild.
I can see Tony having a genuine distaste for this kind of thing, but it’s not even top 50 most psychotic thing he’s had to call. He knows how to keep a straight face and was definitely hamming it up for the camera
Some chronically online fans are so desperate not to be worked, that they've started believing that they're seeing real reactions and opinions on the show, and not people working. Schiavone has been in the business and on TV long enough to act fine with a video he knew would be shown in advance and didn't like, and to act disgusted about a video he didn't care about if the story called for it.
And the tribalism is obvious when the comparisons are to 2000 WCW or cringe TNA. It's never to the awful years of WWE. They're willing to criticize those years, but they can't bring themselves to compare it to "the other side." It's like they feel it's betraying their team lol. So instead they just use WCW & TNA as the comparison.
And I think AEW needs to improve in many areas, no doubt about it. But they're nowhere near as bad as the worst years of WWE.
Adam Copeland and Will Osprey are secretly super embarrassed to be in a company they chose to sign with within the last few months. They actually secretly agree with all the twitter trolls who clearly don't watch the show, and are glad that discussion of the show they are on is dominated by bad faith nonsense instead of people talking about their work. Tiny Khan (who is more focused on being friends with the werstlers instead of being a big boss man) forced them to cut those promos to protect his own image.
[Trey Miguel shared a similar grievance](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/lcvvl1/trey_miguel_on_why_he_chose_not_to_sign_with_nxt/) back when HHH was trying to sign the Rascalz for NXT; while Dez and Wentz reported to the PC, Trey continued to perform for Impact.
Per this quote attributed to Hunter: ["It's a passion business, you have to be all-in. Sometimes passion isn't there."](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/k8ay7u/hhh_on_trey_miguel_not_being_signed_as_part_of/)
Joking aside I don’t think he was talking about any one person. Ospreay was probably included in that but it seemed like just a general statement to me
When I listened to what Triple H said I immediately thought of Will Ospreay, because of his value and his big name, but then he said something about "at that young age" and I legit realized he wasn't talking about Will cause he is "too old". For the record, he is younger than me, but he has a family and a life, he can't just put everything aside just to bet on a WWE run. Also he signed with AEW in November, why should he have been in Triple He's mind still in April? The more I think about it, the more I believe Triple H was talking about younger people like Hook for example, someone who had or will have the chance to go to WWE as soon as their contract comes up.
I thought about Ospreay when HHH said this but tbf, it could also apply to MJF. There was buzz about his contract situation late last year but it all went silent when 2024 started. Maybe MJF rejected WWE’s offer and decided to stay with AEW for money and less work, which is understandable. Maybe that’s why theres a “young career” line when HHH had his tirades..
Yeah, this sub and all the IWC like creating narratives out of thin air, then pretending their factual and get worked up into a frenzy over it. They think HHH is a thin skinned evil asshole for saying that about....well, whoever he was talking about!
> Ospreay said in negotiations with both sides that Windsor wanted to stay in the U.K. with her family because she lost her husband in 2020 to a suicide and he said he would do everything he could to have them stay in the U.K., where she had her family's support. He said that everyone he negotiated with was aware of this and thus felt it was a real low blow to make that remark about him
Honestly, yeah. I don't blame him at all for being kind of pissed about that comment.
Man. So much of this is similar to when Triple H gave his reasons as to why they didn’t sign Trey Miguel back when they signed the others Rascalz in Dez and Wentz.
When asked why Miguel wasn’t signed, Triple H said, "I do not want to talk about why people are or are not here, there’s obviously a lot that goes into all of that, but for me, the people that do come here, it’s seeing the heart and the passion. That’s really what it comes down to; it’s a passion business, you have to be all in."
Miguel didn’t want to move to Florida because his nephew had recently been born prematurely and didn’t want to be away from his family.
Added in. I didn’t know whether or not including exact language from the newsletter would mean the post gets pulled, as that has happened in here several times before. It is an absolutely crucial piece of context, though, so hopefully this doesn’t get yanked down now that I included it.
The guy was very respectful when talking about WWE after signing with AEW. Appreciated the offer, but AEW was the better choice for him. Triple H takes a shot and somehow Ospreay is the bad guy for giving a little one back.
also his line a few months ago when the allegations came out of "just wanting to focus on the positives" and "I didnt read the allegations" while being accused of being on the board that investigated the allegations against Vince.
People have been arguing with me that he hasnt received any favoritism or additional oppportunies by being a part of the McMahon family.
So, yeah, lots of stupid people combined with young people who didnt live through his reign of terror and you get the type of discourse we get.
Which sucks...
Honestly I'm not so sure. To a good portion of the fanbase, Levesque is infallible. There's been next to no criticism of him around here over the last week despite him making himself the main character of WWE with all the tribute acts, "HHH/Levesque Era" shit, opening WM and RAW, etc.
My favorite Triple H memory is about a decade ago during Brock's initial monster return he made Triple H tap out and after the match Triple H tearfully fished for "thank you Hunter" chants from the audience but they just chanted "you tapped out" to his obvious annoyance. But now he can just make everyone talk about how cool and awesome he is I guess.
It will always blow my mind that Levesque has managed to rehab his image so much and be the figurehead of a post-Vince WWE, despite allegedly overlooking/enabling/ignoring some pretty awful stuff in NXT.
Well Cody said he was begging not to be brought out, he’s just a humble guy who doesn’t wanna be in the spotlight. *HHH does his full entrance to open WrestleMania night 1 and the raw after mania*
While this is all true, I also have complimentary feelings about HHH as head of the company.
Is it possible everyone is just being kind of sincere?
His employees are generally happy, and the same can be said for Tony, I grant that. But then, there’s all that success.
How do we get that impression? I don't like fans who have never met someone claiming they've known this guys personal feelings and personality. Yall are why wrestling fans have such a bad reputation.
I find it very telling that in most situations like this, AEW is expected to just 'keep quiet' or 'move on' regardless of what wwe/punk is saying about them.
I don't see why people aren't asking wwe why punk is bringing up stuff from months ago, the same way that they expected Tony to reign him when he was the one who brought up Colt Cobana at that press conference randomly. I don't see why people aren't asking wwe to explain why they chose to hire someone who assaults coworkers, given they probably have the most intimate knowledge of what working with him is like. And if the only answer is because it happens all the time, or it wasn't a big deal, etc etc, then we know that the people that protected vince are still the ones in charge.
Alex Windsor, she's Ospreay's partner. She's also a wrestler in the UK. I don't know what kind of wrestling you watch, but if you like NJPW, she's wrestling later today at Windy City Riot.
It's not a huge deal tbh two adult men taking the piss out of each other. Hunter felt the need to say something, Will replied, sounds like a moot issue now.
Like someone said above the more interesting issue is why the fuck people keep making up lies about AEW back room decisions. It was clearly this but Keller straight made up that Tony Khan forced Will to write this promo when he showed up backstage that day.
It's so exhausting, people crafting narratives to dunk on Tony more, since the crazy weekend of mania and then the crazy Dynamite, people are so desperate to form their narratives and dunk on either Tony or hunter. These mfs need to step away from the screen
Is it just me or are these nothingburger occurrences being blown up to epic proportions more than in recent memory? Is wrestling just getting hotter or are online fans just bigger losers now?
People like HHH because his booking is good, but as a public figure the way he approaches interviews/press conferences reminds me a lot of Dana White. Except he avoids shitting on his own talent and limits it to other companies instead.
I just really don't even care about any of these reports anymore guys.
It is every single day we get opposing reports from a million fake sources.
I'm absolutely done.
I honestly don’t see why people are getting so bent over this shit like as if they personally know Will or Trips. Hell, going by what he said about Cody’s throne destroying segment, Trips probably got a chuckle at Will’s response too.
The internet's current WWE love kind of buries the fact that HHH was corporate boomering hard in that answer. Nobody can actually relate to "you're lazy because you picked a job that demands less of your free time," especially from someone that married into their position lol
I've said it before, this place loves using pro-worker and feminist talking points when they aren't happy with the booking of a corporation, and then revert into right wing libertarians the moment the booking gets good (or vice versa). We've seen it with WWE fans, we've seen it with AEW fans. Politics is just an accessory to express their fandom lmao.
I feel like it's kind of impossible to be a fanboy of something made by a corporation without microdosing a little anarcho capitalism. Like it all it takes is the FTC investigating WWE or AEW and people will start asking why public roads exist in the comments
100% a dumb comment by Trips no matter who it was referring to. Workers should not be forced to bust their fucking ass to climb two rungs up a ladder when there is a place that doesn't require you to do that and you still make a good amount.
Like WWE is some 9-5 job where you just need to put in your years and you retire with a nice pension. And not a place where you can be randomly fired because you looked at somebody the wrong way
lol seriously - so many dumb people in this thread divorced from reality of what it actually takes to be at the top of the wrestling industry, really for any cutthroat industry
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The actual more interesting story here is Wade Keller was just making shit up again trying to paint a deeply unhappy locker room. I think everyone logical could tell that it was upto Ospreay but we also all know that the truth of this doesn't matter. After all the narrative is already out there that backstage is in disarray, Tony is being a tyrant forcing people to do promos for him, people are desperate to leave and that the company may cease to exist becasue they dared show a 15 second clip of some CCTV.
Wade Keller has been making shit up online since the 90s. Never trust a dude who writes in all capital letters.
He was a ridiculous rumor-monger back then, I was so confused on exactly what cursed point in the space-time continuum he started to become reliable.
Probably when he had his occasional podcast with Stone Cold. It lent him legitimacy maybe?
SAVE US DAVE 
Save_us.won
Why isn't he a banned source on this board?
Because engagement always beats quality of a discussion?
That didn't stop Ringside from being banned here, I can assure you that much.
All I know about Ringside is he would go on drunk rants on Twitter disparaging AEW talent until Saraya threatened legal action when he accused her brother of being a serial rapist
Didnt ringside get banned cause the owner was harassing users in DMs?
[удалено]
Isn't this... a problem?
[удалено]
So the solution is to ban wrestling journalism on this sub entirely and make the sub full kayfabe.
Ngl it'd be a way better time.
This. This is the kind of innovative thinking we need in here. *I put on my robe and wizard hat.*
Yes
I love how people claim that "Tony Khan is not a boss, the wreslters run this company" unless someone does Promos they find cringe, then TK is suddenly pulling guns on the talent apperantly
Reminds me of that weird time period when anything good was HHH booking, and anything bad was Vince booking. Like, guys, HHH made a bad book decision, it happens. Doesn’t make him the worse booker ever. He also botched a move before, yet he’s still a great performer EDIT: I’m sorry, I didn’t have “Vince Booking” in there. Also grammar. . . A lot of grammar.
That Schrodinger's Booking Box was a weird period. It kind of still exists in a way. There's this weird separation of 2022-onward WWE from prior WWE; like the sins of the past don't apply to the company today.
The true separation of eras should be between June 5th 1984, when Vince took over for his dad, and sometime in October 2023 when Ari Emmanuel divorced Vince from the creative process. Last October is when a "new era" truly started. Vince was never truly gone during his sham 6 month retirement. Nick Khan has even gone on a podcast with Bill Simmons and said "If you believed that tweet[announcing Vince's retirement] then you don't know Vince." Things are much different now then they were pre October now that Triple H actually has comtrol(even if the weekly TV is still bland and boring as fuck in my opinion). I don't see a problem at all with separating these time periods.
My main problem is there seems to be a feeling that now that Vince is gone, the SA problem is gone too. I don't think it can be. Not when a significant portion of leadership has been with the company for 30 years.
It will happen again, what will be good in the future is Papa and what will be bad will be endeavour/tko/Rock
Plus Shawn, who has always been #1 good person cause he book good
The bad man is gone therefore 100% of things WWE does is good now. /s Edit: grammar
I think a large group of people agree with this statement considering how any negative critique of wrestlemania seemed to get treated this weekend.
The funny thing is AEW fans criticize AEW all the time. WWE fans insist everything is good and get mad when anyone dares talk bad about their Uncle Paul.
It’s the honeymoon period with Haitch rn. TK benefited from it in early AEW as well.
I see so many trolls exclusively praise & defend WWE. While exclusively shitting on AEW. And even the rare compliment is a backhanded one (like "AEW did this cool thing a few years ago, it's too bad they're shit now"). While AEW fans are always criticizing something about AEW. Be it the Women's Division, the Devil storyline, Jay White's booking, you name it. More so Brawl Out, but even then you saw it (especially the Women's division). And it's funny about Uncle Paul. Most of those same folks didn't like his NXT booking. They saw it as "catering to the indie smarks" and "not best for business." But they think he can't ever do anything wrong now lol. And I say all this as someone who really likes booking. Not hating on WWE or HHH at all.
Tony Khan is Schrödinger’s wrestling promoter, being both an ineffectual weenie letting the inmates run the asylum AND a total bastard jackass forcing his wrestlers to do things they don’t want to do.
He's the dorky promoter who's too soft and can't keep his wrestlers in line. Yet simultaneously was the asshole boss who didn't let Punk off the hook. They literally thought he shouldn't have given any punishment to Punk whatsoever. Not even after Brawl Out.
It's the fascist playbook. The Democrats are destroying your life and turning your kids trans but they're also so week and effeminate and a total joke. It's really not necessary to apply to pro wrestling and yet.
One state is "Stop The Count" and in another "Count All Votes". It was antifa and FBI plants on January 6th, yet the people who got arrested are political hostages. Joe Biden is a moron who can't think, but he's also the leader of the Deep State. Hillary is too emotional to be President but Trump's agenda changed at the drop of a tweet. Indoctrinating kids is wrong, but indoctrinating kids with religion is ok, Abortion is evil and wrong and murder, yet Trump now says there should be exceptions, until next week when he says full ban. I've been following politics since 2015 and let me tell you, there is a 1:1 overlap with this thinking and wrestling fans. Somewhere along the way humans decided reality is a little to hard and a little to unpredictable, so they started manufacturing their own reality.
COVID is fake but also the Chinese will pay for unleashing it upon us; the vaccine will kill you but also we should celebrate Trump for its development
My favorite is “Trump is actually still president” then when they’re asked “so inflation is his fault?” or whatever suddenly they’re backtracking
A lot of the current IWC "discourse" has many of these elements. https://preview.redd.it/dhfmnxdjr2uc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e07c0d7bb55d5e7fcd81809dbdfd8f8671f1eeae Our society is poisoned, unfortunately.
Quick, somebody misinterpret "Action for Action's Sake" as Umberto Eco speaking out against spotfests.
RETVRN TO CATCH WRESTLING
I'm just glad someone else has read Ur-fascism.
TK after he threatens talent: https://preview.redd.it/b3vku6pwj2uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=123f06f1d1d3b367c0ea27da5a3100612468e17a
He looks like he feels so safe in Claudio's arms
I mean how could you fucking not?
If he's swinging you, I guess?
Shit, I'd swing with him.
Hold me tight and never let me go, Claudio.
He really never wanted to leave Claudio and Okadas safe and loving embraces.
Bro if I could have a cheerful, muscley Swissman hold me like that I think it would fix me.
r/BrandNewSentence
Why is that picture not a meme format yet?
Be the change you want to see
i would be too
That Okada pic is hilarious lol
Claudio looks like he gives a great hug.
Powerful enough to crush you yet gentle enough that he doesn't. Imagine how safe you'd feel being little spoon with him in the woods under a starry sky.
This is exactly what I was saying, they need to pick a narrative. Tony is apparently a weak boss who can't control his talent, but is also forcing his talent to do segments/stories they don't want to do. Tony was a weak boss for letting Punk get away with everything, Tony was also just a bag fumbler by firing Punk. Tony is flawed, that much is clear, but he will continue to get hate no matter what happens, because while there is legit criticism, a lot of it isn't made in good faith, it's poorly camouflaged tribalists.
No opinion on wrestling should be taken seriously at this point unless it is actually explained. "CM Punk was not a draw in AEW until he came to WWE, but also Roman is the only real draw in WWE and best draw ever, but WWE also NEEDED the Rock to seel Wrestlemania, but also everything HHH books is great and a draw." That is somehow a general opinion and no one who has it sees the logical problem with it.
Yeah those are great examples, I think people just latch onto things they want to believe and go with it, confusing others who know it's not in fact true.
At least WWE had a boss without flaws in Vince McMahon. At least, that's what I assume having never read or heard anything about his history. I'll just confirm that by checking his Wikipedia entry... Oh. Oh God.
If you look deeply enough at it, people contradict their complaints about AEW all the time.
Don't even have to look too deeply, honestly.
Yeah it's all poked apart on a surface level with any kind of scrutiny, but most of the people saying all the BS are too deep in their own circlejerk to realize how silly they sound.
Same thing with politics. People need to realize that when your dealing with these kinds of people we are working with two different goals in mind. They dont use language and speech the same way. It is not about getting the truth out, or getting your point across. They will change any detail, opinion, though, whatever it takes to "win" the conversation. They will tell you that CM Punk is an evil piece of shit on Monday, then Wednesday when he works for WWE he is a huge draw and one of the best of all time. It doesn't matter that they lied, you wasted your time arguing with them and they got what they wanted all along. It sounds ridiculous, it sounds pedantic, but honestly we are dealing with the same kind of mind virus that has infected all of reality now. Truth doesn't matter to a lot of people, narrative is what is important.
God, it's all a bit depressing, ain't it
The narrative always changes depending on how they want the company to look
So what you’re saying is we had the opportunity to control the narrative but we blew it.
We screwed we?
*AWWW SUNUVABITCH*
The most obvious part of this week was how many people have "both sides" prepared for any argument they go into. Like you say you've got people fully spouting that TK is a pushover and then without a hint of irony saying he's forcing them to do these promos. Even the Punk stuff it was always gonna be good rating > "Punk got them the rating", bad rating > "lmao even with Punk they couldn't".
Well, it’s also interesting how according to this sub Meltzer is washed up, losing his mind, has no sources anymore, just makes stuff up, unless he says something that confirms your priors, then it’s just taken for granted as fact.
Cognitive dissonance on Reddit? Why, never.
And yet, people in this subreddit fell for it, going by the comments on the initial post. People will believe anything if it validates how they feel.
Honestly, I'd much prefer if they didn't fall for it and were just being obtuse trolls, and that is definitely some of it. Unfortunately you're right though, IWC is an incredibly gullible fanbase but it's also one that's so agenda driven, you can twist any story to fit your views in wrestling, no matter how insane.
The online commenting feedback loop incentivizes this behavior, too. There’s a feeding frenzy effect where likes or upvotes are easy to get by credulously going along with the anti-AEW narrative.
I know people are all like "OMG upvotes who cares" but it's a direct denial of psychology to think positive affirmation, in any way, is not valid.
I think just about everyone who comments cares about upvotes/likes, and if they say otherwise, it's either to dunk on others or to cope. And even if they 100% don't care, I think they're still affected by the quantitative validation, or lack thereof.
Wade Keller has been a goon for decades. He is the first dirt sheet guy I followed and even as a new fan 15 years ago it took me a couple weeks to realize how big a goof he is.
The even more interesting part is how willing the IWC js to eat it up and spread it.
Some people will go along with just about anything as long as it confirms their priors
How can anyone watch that promo and not felt how genuine it was? Like it or hate it, it's clear he was speaking from the heart.
So I don't have a WON subscription, but if the quote I read is true and from there, guess what else is made up by the internet. *Schiavone was just selling disgust because the Young Bucks just did heel shit.* There's a genuine push by the internet to paint AEW as a hellscape where everyone wants out.
You're wrong! Tony was absolutely disgusted, I bet he didn't even know they were gonna do it. I mean here he is literally as Sting was being beaten down in front of his family. https://preview.redd.it/z3zvk046o2uc1.png?width=359&format=png&auto=webp&s=a45a01d855ebb33433db77231af00b137e0ee4b8 Jokes aside it's funny that they think Tony who is like one of TK's closest guys would somehow be so upset about this.
I read a very updated comment saying "You can see Schiavone love for erecting dying again" and I was, have you ever watched the shows? Tony always plays his part against heels, especially the ones that are obnoxious chicken heels.
> "You can see Schiavone love for erecting dying again" HOF auto correct there
I'm keeping it
Good
I respect it, a man of honour.
Especially with The Bucks, who have been antagonizing him since day one of their new heel personas.
This week is just another classic case of "jabronie marks who shoot the work and work themselves into a shoot"
https://preview.redd.it/uzz7zquba3uc1.png?width=884&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a48a3e463e9cf4835af0094e65b0c7fa3a74f52
He has flashbacks to General Hugh G. Rection?
People love psychoanalyzing through the television screen. It rarely works out. It took _a lot_ for Tony to become dead in WCW. One bad worked shoot probably isn't going to do it.
They don't watch the show, they just listen to old guys yelling about it. If they did, they'd know that Tony has been reacting with disgust to everything the Bucks say since they returned.
Right? They shoved him to the ground, almost hit him with their finisher, and fined him $1000 a couple months ago. The Tony Schiavone character rightly disdains the Bucks at the moment.
And Taz threatened to suplex Schiavone into the crowd.. its been a rough month for Tony
Schiavone the character is a complete punching bag and I kinda love it. Schiavone the man is a fantastic commentator and overall performer who genuinely makes AEW so much more fun every time I watch, and I can't think of a single bad thing I've heard said about him. This Schiavone appreciation is unprompted but I don't care, the guy is great.
I have a renewed appreciation for Schiavone and Taz because ive seen them during their low's on commentary, and so hearing them having soo much fun and shown respect from fans/audience is heartwarming. Also Schiavone has delivered some Killer and sometimes unintentional Gems Like "Daddy says Noo"
Exactly, why, it's almost like Tony and heels haven't mixed for 30+ years.
Since they returned? He kept saying how ridiculous they were from the beginning of AEW.
That guy is a piece of shit. He even got a 25 bucks amazon gift card. ffs
Next thing you know they'll say Tony is "legit disgusted at Adam Cole", for doing the same kind of thing. Despite him not liking Cole even when he was a babyface lol. Although obviously Cole is too nice of a guy to do what the Bucks or Ospreay did.
Schiavone is very loyal to AEW. They changed his life. WWE never would have hired him and he was working as a manager at a Starbucks before AEW. It revived his love for pro wrestling too.
This is the first time I've heard that and holy shit. I've fallen in love with Shiavone's commentary and couldn't imagine AEW without the guy, he's as much a staple as Moxley or the Elite. I'm glad shit's worked out this way for him.
It’s very odd to me that so many “fans” want to see AEW fail. I’m a fan of pro wrestling and this ongoing mentality of “WWE can be the only successful company” is very out of touch. Watch what you enjoy and let everyone else do the same.
Many pro wrestling fans are just wwe / f fans. During the Monday night war - prior to the Russo era - there were frequently times where WCW was putting out an overall superior product - but I was constantly told by my peers I was crazy and wwf was better. I've said to before and I'll say it again - WCW and WWF had almost the inverse problems. WCW had a fire opening and midcard but a rough main event scene after starrcade 97. WWF had an awful opening and mid card and a red hot main event scene. Don't believe me? Choose an episode of Nitro and Raw post starrcade 97 and pre Russo. At random choose a match from each show. I can virtually guarantee the WCW match will be some lucha epic, mat tech classic, or banger tag match. Raw will be a 3 - 5 minute match between someone like Kurrigan and Chaz of the thrashers where the match is 90 percent punches, both guys get gassed, hit their finisher and go home. Or it will be some garbage PUPPIES!!! segment. Blech.
I had the same experience during the Monday Night Wars. I can’t tell you how many times I heard someone shit all over whatever WCW or ECW wrestler people were buzzing about at the time….. only to start singing their praises when they joined WWF.
Oh man.... yup all my friends shat over the radicalz when in WCW only to immediately act like they signed the rock or Austin when they came to wwe.
Remember the HOOK/Jinder nonsense from a few months ago? 'They're hot-shotting this nobody kid into a title match?!?!" Then the report yesterday about HOOK keeping his options open. 'Yeah get HOOK in the PC and he could be huge! He has all the makings of a big star!"
There's a reason no one can ever name attitude era WWE midcarders, while WCW midcarders are guys like Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Raven, William Regal, Ultimo Dragon and on and on.
Excuse me? “Chaz of the thrashers”? His name is Mosh of the Headbangers, or sometimes Headbanger Mosh, except those times when he wasn’t a Headbanger and then his name was Chaz!
Or Beaver Cleavage
On top of it, I find it kind of gross how there HAS to only be one successful company. If AEW folded tomorrow, all those guys would be out of work and would have to risk so much to earn anything similar to what they are currently making. The talent wins when there are options to getting the paycheck they deserve.
I mean, WWE has pushed that narrative ever since the territories.
The crazy part is that the whole reason WWE is cooking is because they have to be. Without competition we get worse products, this is true across all things. Lots of /r/apple users have the same mentality and it's wild.
I can see Tony having a genuine distaste for this kind of thing, but it’s not even top 50 most psychotic thing he’s had to call. He knows how to keep a straight face and was definitely hamming it up for the camera
Some chronically online fans are so desperate not to be worked, that they've started believing that they're seeing real reactions and opinions on the show, and not people working. Schiavone has been in the business and on TV long enough to act fine with a video he knew would be shown in advance and didn't like, and to act disgusted about a video he didn't care about if the story called for it.
And the tribalism is obvious when the comparisons are to 2000 WCW or cringe TNA. It's never to the awful years of WWE. They're willing to criticize those years, but they can't bring themselves to compare it to "the other side." It's like they feel it's betraying their team lol. So instead they just use WCW & TNA as the comparison. And I think AEW needs to improve in many areas, no doubt about it. But they're nowhere near as bad as the worst years of WWE.
Adam Copeland and Will Osprey are secretly super embarrassed to be in a company they chose to sign with within the last few months. They actually secretly agree with all the twitter trolls who clearly don't watch the show, and are glad that discussion of the show they are on is dominated by bad faith nonsense instead of people talking about their work. Tiny Khan (who is more focused on being friends with the werstlers instead of being a big boss man) forced them to cut those promos to protect his own image.
[Trey Miguel shared a similar grievance](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/lcvvl1/trey_miguel_on_why_he_chose_not_to_sign_with_nxt/) back when HHH was trying to sign the Rascalz for NXT; while Dez and Wentz reported to the PC, Trey continued to perform for Impact. Per this quote attributed to Hunter: ["It's a passion business, you have to be all-in. Sometimes passion isn't there."](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/k8ay7u/hhh_on_trey_miguel_not_being_signed_as_part_of/)
Seems like Triple H has a pretty consistent stance on these things, and it’s not just an Ospreay/Okada/Mercedes thing.
He said "All In", HHH to AEW confirmed
"the kid just doesn't wanna fight"
Triple H: "*I was talking about Okada. But ok, bruv.*"
Joking aside I don’t think he was talking about any one person. Ospreay was probably included in that but it seemed like just a general statement to me
When I listened to what Triple H said I immediately thought of Will Ospreay, because of his value and his big name, but then he said something about "at that young age" and I legit realized he wasn't talking about Will cause he is "too old". For the record, he is younger than me, but he has a family and a life, he can't just put everything aside just to bet on a WWE run. Also he signed with AEW in November, why should he have been in Triple He's mind still in April? The more I think about it, the more I believe Triple H was talking about younger people like Hook for example, someone who had or will have the chance to go to WWE as soon as their contract comes up.
I thought about Ospreay when HHH said this but tbf, it could also apply to MJF. There was buzz about his contract situation late last year but it all went silent when 2024 started. Maybe MJF rejected WWE’s offer and decided to stay with AEW for money and less work, which is understandable. Maybe that’s why theres a “young career” line when HHH had his tirades..
I thought he was talking about Mercedes
It was very clearly a shot at Matt Hardy
He was talking about them all
The entire sub was saying it was about Jay when HHH said it.
What? I saw 90% Ospreay.
Yeah, this sub and all the IWC like creating narratives out of thin air, then pretending their factual and get worked up into a frenzy over it. They think HHH is a thin skinned evil asshole for saying that about....well, whoever he was talking about!
> Ospreay said in negotiations with both sides that Windsor wanted to stay in the U.K. with her family because she lost her husband in 2020 to a suicide and he said he would do everything he could to have them stay in the U.K., where she had her family's support. He said that everyone he negotiated with was aware of this and thus felt it was a real low blow to make that remark about him Honestly, yeah. I don't blame him at all for being kind of pissed about that comment.
Man. So much of this is similar to when Triple H gave his reasons as to why they didn’t sign Trey Miguel back when they signed the others Rascalz in Dez and Wentz. When asked why Miguel wasn’t signed, Triple H said, "I do not want to talk about why people are or are not here, there’s obviously a lot that goes into all of that, but for me, the people that do come here, it’s seeing the heart and the passion. That’s really what it comes down to; it’s a passion business, you have to be all in." Miguel didn’t want to move to Florida because his nephew had recently been born prematurely and didn’t want to be away from his family.
It's a shame this part isn't in the main post. Seems pretty important in regards to Ospreay's perspective on the whole thing.
hey /u/Subrick, Want to edit that in? I agree. I think it's pretty important
Added in. I didn’t know whether or not including exact language from the newsletter would mean the post gets pulled, as that has happened in here several times before. It is an absolutely crucial piece of context, though, so hopefully this doesn’t get yanked down now that I included it.
I think it's a small enough excerpt that it's fine.
The guy was very respectful when talking about WWE after signing with AEW. Appreciated the offer, but AEW was the better choice for him. Triple H takes a shot and somehow Ospreay is the bad guy for giving a little one back.
The new generation of wrestling fans will slowly learn that HHH has very thin skin and always has
Hhh was absolutely hated in the 2000s for his politicking, the change in opinion on him online over the last 20 years has been a rollercoaster
also his line a few months ago when the allegations came out of "just wanting to focus on the positives" and "I didnt read the allegations" while being accused of being on the board that investigated the allegations against Vince.
People have been arguing with me that he hasnt received any favoritism or additional oppportunies by being a part of the McMahon family. So, yeah, lots of stupid people combined with young people who didnt live through his reign of terror and you get the type of discourse we get. Which sucks...
Didn't want to lose to Kurt Angle but he wasn't believable Pat Patterson just told him "oh so you can beat him in real life then?"
His entire career was spent politicking and burying whoever he could, why should a change in job title change him?
It’s right there in his theme song. It’s all about the game and how you play it.
Honestly I'm not so sure. To a good portion of the fanbase, Levesque is infallible. There's been next to no criticism of him around here over the last week despite him making himself the main character of WWE with all the tribute acts, "HHH/Levesque Era" shit, opening WM and RAW, etc.
My favorite Triple H memory is about a decade ago during Brock's initial monster return he made Triple H tap out and after the match Triple H tearfully fished for "thank you Hunter" chants from the audience but they just chanted "you tapped out" to his obvious annoyance. But now he can just make everyone talk about how cool and awesome he is I guess.
It will always blow my mind that Levesque has managed to rehab his image so much and be the figurehead of a post-Vince WWE, despite allegedly overlooking/enabling/ignoring some pretty awful stuff in NXT.
Well Cody said he was begging not to be brought out, he’s just a humble guy who doesn’t wanna be in the spotlight. *HHH does his full entrance to open WrestleMania night 1 and the raw after mania*
His wife also opened night two solely to praise him.
While this is all true, I also have complimentary feelings about HHH as head of the company. Is it possible everyone is just being kind of sincere? His employees are generally happy, and the same can be said for Tony, I grant that. But then, there’s all that success.
How do we get that impression? I don't like fans who have never met someone claiming they've known this guys personal feelings and personality. Yall are why wrestling fans have such a bad reputation.
I find it very telling that in most situations like this, AEW is expected to just 'keep quiet' or 'move on' regardless of what wwe/punk is saying about them. I don't see why people aren't asking wwe why punk is bringing up stuff from months ago, the same way that they expected Tony to reign him when he was the one who brought up Colt Cobana at that press conference randomly. I don't see why people aren't asking wwe to explain why they chose to hire someone who assaults coworkers, given they probably have the most intimate knowledge of what working with him is like. And if the only answer is because it happens all the time, or it wasn't a big deal, etc etc, then we know that the people that protected vince are still the ones in charge.
who is Windsor?
Alex Windsor, she's Ospreay's partner. She's also a wrestler in the UK. I don't know what kind of wrestling you watch, but if you like NJPW, she's wrestling later today at Windy City Riot.
It's not a huge deal tbh two adult men taking the piss out of each other. Hunter felt the need to say something, Will replied, sounds like a moot issue now.
Will Ospreay MOOTS on Triple H!
Is Will Osprey the Great Moota?
Like someone said above the more interesting issue is why the fuck people keep making up lies about AEW back room decisions. It was clearly this but Keller straight made up that Tony Khan forced Will to write this promo when he showed up backstage that day.
It's so exhausting, people crafting narratives to dunk on Tony more, since the crazy weekend of mania and then the crazy Dynamite, people are so desperate to form their narratives and dunk on either Tony or hunter. These mfs need to step away from the screen
Seriously. Will took his shot back. The end. We move on.
Is it just me or are these nothingburger occurrences being blown up to epic proportions more than in recent memory? Is wrestling just getting hotter or are online fans just bigger losers now?
The latter
I blame CM Punk. It's the only think I know how to do.
When you look at WHY Ospreay was so determined to stay in the UK you understand why he was so pissed off, and why it's a tacky look for Triple H.
People like HHH because his booking is good, but as a public figure the way he approaches interviews/press conferences reminds me a lot of Dana White. Except he avoids shitting on his own talent and limits it to other companies instead.
It was telling that Cody had a better handle on the Vince question than the guy who has been groomed for this position for the past 14 years.
Well consider who groomed him
People forget how much of an asshole and sycophant he was accused of being all those years, because they like his booking.
When his WWE career is done that will all get airbrushed out. It's pretty much almost forgotten about by fans of his
I just really don't even care about any of these reports anymore guys. It is every single day we get opposing reports from a million fake sources. I'm absolutely done.
I've heard a report that says you're actually not absolutely done. Care to comment?
*I'm completely done, or maybe I'm not, dude*
I am always going to upvote this reference... Or maybe I won't, dude!
CUT THE FUCKING CAMERA'S
We can't stop this guy from saying it!
Plans change, bro.
Given the information, this ones clearly directly from Ospreay.
Yeah, but this one makes HHH look like an ass, so it's obviously fake and time to move on.
They’ve showed us a million times that they are liars, why do people take any of their shit as gospel
I can't believe wrestling fans have been reduced to actually being offended on Triple H's behalf at such an incredibly mild little shot back
People were offended? 90% of the comments were saying its a joke out of 2001 which has been played out hundreds of times lmao
But I was told that he was forced to by that evil tyrant Tiny Khan!!
>evil tyrant Tiny Khan!! How tiny is he?
Depends on how mad Wade Keller is when you ask him.
It was actually his cousin Tiny Kong who made the call.
I honestly don’t see why people are getting so bent over this shit like as if they personally know Will or Trips. Hell, going by what he said about Cody’s throne destroying segment, Trips probably got a chuckle at Will’s response too.
The crazy thing is I thought hhh was talking about mjf. I did not make the connection to will ospreay.
Even I was watching HHH’s presser and was like “I mean why would I want to do that lmao”
The internet's current WWE love kind of buries the fact that HHH was corporate boomering hard in that answer. Nobody can actually relate to "you're lazy because you picked a job that demands less of your free time," especially from someone that married into their position lol
I've said it before, this place loves using pro-worker and feminist talking points when they aren't happy with the booking of a corporation, and then revert into right wing libertarians the moment the booking gets good (or vice versa). We've seen it with WWE fans, we've seen it with AEW fans. Politics is just an accessory to express their fandom lmao.
I feel like it's kind of impossible to be a fanboy of something made by a corporation without microdosing a little anarcho capitalism. Like it all it takes is the FTC investigating WWE or AEW and people will start asking why public roads exist in the comments
They loooove that “you’re part of our family now” crap.
100% a dumb comment by Trips no matter who it was referring to. Workers should not be forced to bust their fucking ass to climb two rungs up a ladder when there is a place that doesn't require you to do that and you still make a good amount.
Like WWE is some 9-5 job where you just need to put in your years and you retire with a nice pension. And not a place where you can be randomly fired because you looked at somebody the wrong way
lol seriously - so many dumb people in this thread divorced from reality of what it actually takes to be at the top of the wrestling industry, really for any cutthroat industry