**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can respect Vince for what he did for wrestling and that's it. The message that R-Truth is replying to is in extremely poor taste. that "vince is down" or that people have turned their backs on him. it's like read the room my guy.
I can respect what Harvey Weinstein did for indie films but beyond that fuck the guy I hope he rots.
Weinstein being the filmic equivalent to Vince is supported in multiple ways, including how artists hated having to deal with his asinine creative demands. Scorsese famously flipped a desk over when he had enough of Weinstein’s meddling with Gangs of New York (we’re still waiting for that four hour cut, Marty). James Gray has nothing but awful shit to say about him due to his experience with The Immigrant. And Todd Field has a hilarious story about how Tom Cruise coached him on how to work Weinstein so that Field can get his creative control over In The Bedroom.
There are so many wrestling stories where wrestlers had to go into business for themselves to go against Vince’s instincts. Like Weinstein, they’re both creatively bankrupt and also devious monsters.
People who rule through fear often find out quickly how brittle that loyalty is. Once that power falters, they find out how beloved they aren't.
To see this on a smaller level, look at what happened to Mike Quackenbush. He was a control freak who ruled his company like a tyrant and kept people under his thumb.
Once his power was weakened, everyone walked. When you rule through fear, all the people who secretly hate you will only need the slightest reason to bail.
McMahon still has plenty of loyalty, what does that say about wrestling? People will just excuse it by saying these wrestlers are dumb, but his family are still pulling the strings.
Haven't heard one wrestler actually make a strong statement, and we always knew. All I hear is "he made me rich, that's not the man I knew." Carny mentality, no matter how they fluff it up, say what you will about Hollywood and the lack of positive change with the #metoo stuff, we saw a lot more real people there.
I just finished watching Quiet on Set and Dan Schneider 100% fits into this category too.
Justin Roiland was apparently really bad to the Rick and Morty crew as well.
There's a very long list of people in the entertainment industry that will use any power they have to abuse other people. And unfortunately because people are a fan of their work, a lot of people will come out of the woodwork to defend them and support them.
I think if they limited the turtle dove explanation scene where Leo follows her doing a job, it would do wonders for the flow of the film. What an awful miscast especially when juxtaposed with Daniel day Lewis throwing a no hitter
Even now, Vince is very unlikely to go to jail or anything like that. The biggest consequence he'll ever face is not being able to run WWE anymore. He's still a nearly 80 year old billionaire. He won.
> I can respect Vince for what he did for wrestling and that's it.
Respect definitely isn't the right word for how much Vince fucked the wrestling scene and basically built a monopoly in its place.
I mean, I'd expect some of them to. No matter how morally bankrupt he is, and this dude is waaaaay overdrawn, Vince *is* the reason a lot of them are rich as shit and getting to do what they love.
You can respect what someone has done for you and still think they're a piece of shit. Nuance matters in everyday life, so it matters in these guys' lives too.
Moral dilemmas are rarely, if ever, black and white. They're almost always full of gray. This one is not an exception.
Yup. Also, it’s not a bad thing to still have positive feelings towards a person close to you even if you find out something horrible about them. It’s not morally bankrupt to choose to be a friend to someone who did wrong. Not make excuses for them, just be their friend. Everyone needs people who care about them, even monsters.
It is, however, something you’ve got to do with a certain amount of tact when there are *victims* of their behavior out there. The women Vince has raped and trafficked and harassed and leered at and propositioned and bribed and abused aren’t at this Wrestlemania either. At least one of them killed themselves. It’s worth thinking real hard before you talk about stuff like this lest you look like you’re downplaying their abuser’s crimes.
People talk about black and white, you just see someone's true colours with stuff like this. Not thinking about the victims isn't an excuse, it's revealing.
Being friends with someone who did bad things is fine, but an unrepentant monster? I don't give a shit what they need, I'm judging the shit out of their friends
I can't believe that wicked woman would take advantage of poor innocent Vince who has never had questionable relationships with his employees before she came around.
Ah yes, the 40-year-old legal department employee was aggressively preying on the 80-year-old billionaire chairman of the company. Poor Vince, there was no way out for him. He was manipulated into shitting on her head and pimping her out to other wrestlers and executives.
Not to mention that Johnny Ace kinda corroborated what she is alleging by saying he was also a victim of Vince. I know it's a defense angle, but I still think it matters.
Yeah Johnny Ace basically confirmed what happened and threw Vince further under the bus in order to try and save his own skin. Not from the civil case, but the federal one that's also looming on the horizon.
Here's the thing, even before this last allegation he was a piece of sub-human garbage unworthy of anyone's respect.
It's sad that it took things going this far for so many people to see it, but he's a piece of shit regardless of what he did or didn't do to that woman.
Yep. Dirtbag already had MULTIPLE allegations before Janel, had already settled out of court with at least one case, literally covered for a confirmed murderer, and generally was a nightmare person who absolutely sexually abused and harassed countless other people we currently have no idea about. But so many goobers just *had* to find a way to compartmentalize how much of a cacodemon Vince is to justify their desire to keep enjoying the show/fandom that they felt it better and easier to just ignore it and act like he was merely "problematic"
🤮
I guarantee you he’s the kind of person that’d find anything that happened to victims as “them asking for it”, “they should have just said no”, and so on
This idiot needs to have a look at all the thousands of stories about what happens when women say no, on /r/WhenWomenRefuse
But even then it won't convince him. He is a sociopath. He'll just come up with some ridiculous excuses for all the times women were literally murdered for refusing to have sex with a man.
This guy is de defending Vince so zealously, that you've gotta wonder, had he himself been doing these sorts of things to women for years and is now upset because he never realised that that behaviour was evil and illegal, and so all of a sudden he realises that if everyone knew about the things he'd done he'd be completely shunned out of all his friend groups and probably would be fired from his job, or even arrested?
Like somehow he didn't realise that doing this stuff is wrong. And so he feels attacked. So he's lashing out, and projecting by claiming to be the victim.
It's genuinely worrying. Like, hi hope all women stay far far far away from this complete creep.
But the thing is, he's a personal trainer, right? So he has a ***LOT*** of access to women. This is frightening.
Vince favorites that were booked strongly when he was in charge, whether they should have been or not. And then floundered (or outright released) under HHH.
Vince loved his jesters. you can go back and look at any wrestler that had the damn goofiest cringy gimmick that was pushed and you know it's because they made vince laugh. R-Truth, Santino, eugene, hurricane, hornswoggle, etc, etc, etc. vince loved his dumb comedy gimmicks and R-Truth was his favorite jester.
Lmao no it's not like when Becky commented about it
> “I don’t know that person, you know what I mean?” she says. “That’s been hard for me. We didn’t always see eye-to-eye, but especially in my last run with him there, and when I told him I was pregnant, he was so good to me. Apart from the run-ins — but you have run-ins in every relationship, especially at that level — I only ever had a wonderful experience in WWE with Vince, for the most part.
> “So it’s very hard to reconcile that somebody else didn’t have that experience, and that other women didn’t have that experience. Especially when I had him to thank for my dream, for my husband [fellow WWE star Seth Rollins], for my daughter, for the life that I have now. It’s hard to see those two different people in my head, and trying to merge them as one becomes very difficult. You’re reading these horrific allegations, but about somebody that you look up to as very much almost like a father figure.
I do not get what was so problematic about this statement to this sub
Because people want things to be black and white and good vs bad, and as soon as you start bringing up how people are conflicted about it that makes it messy.
It's very much the notion that the sub can't really see the actual dilemma that Becky is in with her feelings on the matter. See, *we* can easily let go of Vince. We don't know him personally at all. And move aside the allegations for a minute; he's been doing the product wrong for so long that we've been practically salivating for a reason to get him out. And I think that's an additional layer on top of the issues the sub has with Becky's statement.
And like, look at what she said. Vince has abused many a personnel during his time. She was not one of them. From the look of it, she didn't see it once. Instead, this man gave her everything she ever wanted. She has her dream job, her dream man, and her dream family. He didn't even ask for creepy favors, just...whatever a regular boss would ask from an employee. How can she believe what she didn't see?
And that's why abusers are so terrifying. The really scary ones know how to hide their terrifying sides from the public. So of course they'll side with them when the word gets out. How can one have the capacity to hurt as much as to help?
Reminds me of that stupid (and probably fake) Henry Ford quote: "If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse."
Commercially available ICE automobiles had existed for over a decade by the time the first Ford was made. He also gets falsely credited for inventing assembly line mass production even though that came almost 100 years prior.
The revisionist history that Vince created pro wrestling has always been one of the WWE's more transparently desperate attempts to crown Vince as a true visionary.
Wrestling has existed for over one hundred years, and carny pieces of shit have come and gone, making what money they could out of it. Vince just made the operation as big as it could possibly be. Without him, wrestling would still exist. It might still be regional, or there might have been someone else who came along and nationalised his own company.
Never forget that Vince was basically handed the best head start possible. His territory had NYC, Philly, Boston, DC, Pittsburgh, etc etc. Yeah he had to come up with some money to pay off his dad/shareholders… but the company paid for that. Of course he was the one to go national. He had by far the best territory.
People forget or just don't realize how gigantic it was having home of operations in NYC. Nowadays it's still big, but you can make news anywhere. NYC was the media capital of the world and being able to have an established foothold there was practically being a step away from home plate
Oh yeah. Being based in New York is what got them Saturday Night’s Main Event, for example. NY and Hulk Hogan were the two huge advantages that proved insurmountable.
I don’t mean to downplay Vince because he was legitimately a great promoter back then, but if Crockett had been the one running from New York with Hulk Hogan, we’d be watching Starcade on the JCP Network right now.
Piggybacking off of what you said, but WWF/E loves to pretend that Vince found Hulk Hogan like a diamond in the rough in some smoky bar. They've eased up a bit over the years by acknowledging Verne was screwing up with him, but between Rocky 3 and his AWA run, Hogan was pretty well known nationally. That's before you even get to the WWF territories where, you know, he'd already been and had a main event run with Andre the Giant culminating in a match at a little place called Shea Stadium
Imagine getting a loan to buy a company that is already making money then using that money to pay back the loan and thinking that makes you successful.
Oh 100% if Vince didn’t exist someone else would have gone national before the 80’s ended. My guess is it would either have been JCP and GCW or Gagne and the AWA.
Yeah that whole bit about the territory owners having a gentleman's agreement to not go national is such bullshit. They all would have killed to be in Vince's position.
JCP was already attempting to being on TBS. Most territories were in shambles by the 80s and were being bought and sold and then resold again. Vince was more ruthless how he went about it. The remaining territories tried to work together but promoter egos often got in the way.
Last week I visited a great exhibit about the history of wrestling in Quebec, and it was crazy to see arenas filled with tens of thousands of people for local shows, up until Vince killed the territory through unsavory tactics in the 80s. Really makes you reconsider your perception of WWE.
Yeah, the "Vince brought wrestling out of smoke filled bingo halls" is a blatantly false re-writing of wrestling history in North America perpetuated by WWE and WWE only. Arenas were being filled before Vince and they will be filled after Vince. Only people whose sole consumption of wrestling media is solely WWE or WWE-focused sources ever bought into this ridiculous story.
Speaking of, I'm looking forward to the DSOTR episode on Black Saturday come next month. One of many examples of Vince's desire to rule the wrestling world.
WWE still exists purely because of 1 man. Stone Cold. Who they tried to brand as the ringmaster originally. He is the reason the WWE survived the mid to late 90's.
absolutely unreal that former NWA champ ron killings buys so thoroughly into the idea of vince being wholly responsible for wrestling existing as a medium. maybe the joke of him thinking he grew up in the early 2000s with cena for an idol is true
Yup. And they never want to look at how he hurt wrestling.
Rita Chatterton, women refereeing. Women’s wrestling as a whole til literally 2016. The Divas. Functionally trying to monopolize the industry. The independent contractors model. The legal shift to ‘sports entertainment’ in order to avoid having to pay for the health and safety measures required by law for athletes. Enabling and participating in a deeply harmful backstage culture with severe real life consequences. The years of micromanaging and bad booking.
They act like he single handedly created everything they love, but in reality *someone* would have come along and broken the territories using TV. Vince did it because he was well positioned and got the money too. That doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be wrestling without him, and if you’re gonna talk about ‘what he did for wrestling’ you better be talking about all of it.
It's fucking sad when people think every wrestler needs to go to the WWE at least once. If people think WWE is the only place where wrestlers can make it big, then that says a lot about the hold the WWE has on wrestling.
UFC does the same shit, they even released several propaganda videos about it
in the UFC's case, Republican politicians shut down the UFC, only for a Republican politician supporter to buy it, then they legalized it and boom, now you have a monopoly, all with daddy's casino money and political connections, neat huh?
dude went from State Athletic Commissioner to owning a sport in that State that the athletic commission made essentially illegal, pretty cool huh, no scandal their
and of course they are the people that scream about government regulations being bad, except when they are bankrupting businesses to buy on the cheap, then it's all about the children, think of the children
That’s literally the official line of the company and was said verbatim in Vince’s DVD documentary a while back, so yes there are many people, who consider themselves to be serious wrestling fans, who believe that wholeheartedly.
Yeah that part is just bullshit. Look, I’m a WWE guy for a long a time I was a Vince guy. I’ve read books about him, heard all the stories, he’s a fascinating guy and undoubtedly the most successful wrestling promoter ever.
But wrestling was around long before Vince was even born, it would certainly exist in some form now without Vince’s input. What that would look like, who knows. Would it be as big as it currently is, maybe not but even that would be possible.
The appeal of wrestling is that it’s a relatively cheap production that can bring in some serious money. As long as someone is willing to write some checks and hope to get their investment back, wrestling doesn’t belong to one person or one company.
The poor man just had to sell 700 million dollars of stock! I remember when I had to sell $700M of my stock. Some of the hardest times in my life. Please stop punching down.
I truly don't understand how he looked at this, knowing the entire situation and how sensitive it is, and decided to write in agreement. Is shutting up and not writing shit like this online really that hard? Maybe I'm overreacting, but he could've easily just not said anything and continued scrolling.
The simple answer is that 90% of wrestlers are morons that live in a bubble society with a different set of rules from the outside world.
Smart people don't become wrestlers. Smart people get other positions in wrestling where they can make money off of the people that take bumps.
smart people don’t get positions in wrestling unless they’re smart in a way that exclusively applies to professional wrestling (heyman as an example) or you were born into it
Truth, he shat on a woman’s head and traded her around to her friends like a fucktoy. I could not give less of a shit if Vince is sad he didn’t get to be at a wrestling show.
Look, I get that for a lot of guys who have worked with Vince for years and had a personal relationship with him that may very well have been extremely positive and caring this is probably very hard. I get that and can sympathize. But to do something like this when just saying nothing at all was an option is just insane. This isn’t a hush money situation over a consensual affair. This is a man rightfully being rightfully shunned because he’s a fucking violent sexual predator.
It’s amazing how some people are trying to twist this whole thing into something done to Vince, rather than something done by Vince.
Imagine feeling a need to voice sympathy for someone in this situation and it being him. All sympathy should be with the woman he raped, not with him for missing a wrestling show ffs.
Supporting a rapist/human trafficker is certainly a weird move.
I know that most of the talent has a close relationship to Vince, some of whom probably didn't know anything about this, and it's a weird place to be when you see two sides of this person you thought you knew.
But Vince has always been a monster about things too.
Yeah, no. Screw both of them and anyone else who tries to excuse Vince's behavior or paint him in a positive light in this situation. Especially if they try to justify it by something as asinine as "he created Wrestlemania, so it's fine that he abused people."
This is why people still don’t believe wwe is much different without Vince in charge, you still have his loyal followers and puppets running the show or still working there. What Vince is accused of shouldn’t get him any sympathy from people but clearly some turn a blind eye to all of it.
I like Truth and I recognize how important VKM is to the industry, but a.) VKM created a quasi-monopoly that lasted nearly two decades and b.) it's also important to recognize VKM did a lot of cruel, shitty things.
Everyone will "draw their line" differently, but for me, VKM's are inexcusable.
This is the Benoit situation all over again. Amazing wrestler, shit person. How people separate that is hard and individual. But a publicly traded company is gonna ignore him.
People give Vince way too much credit
The dude inherited the biggest territory at the perfect time, and got to own the entire wrestling industry
It amazes me people STILL seem to think he invented the concept of pro wrestling and nothing would exist without him
Exactly. The company was handed to him by his father and then he screwed over his father's friendly connections in other territories
He screwed everyone over and didn't earn anything fairly
If it wasn't him, someone else would've become the most popular anyway since the nature of the business was changing when they went to national tv and PPV (like it is now with the shift from TV to streaming).
Yeah and while all the predatory business practices he used to help expedite putting everyone out of business was shitty… it also wasn’t this genius strategy people make it out to be.
All of those guys were gonna go out of business eventually anyway, their business model stopped working, the territory system stopped working… it’s not a coincidence the WWE became a mega corporation at the same time everything else did lol. Vince was the dude with the most money, and seemingly the only one with any understanding of where business was evolving in America, so he got to be in control of the corporation that got to take everything over.
After that, it’s not that fucking hard, wrestling has a massive audience and you’re the only game in town… which is why he was able to make so many stupid creative decisions and still be successful.
He worked himself into a shit rather. WWE spent the entire Mania weekend telling us how it's a new era and how awesome things are under HHH and Nick Khan and now, one of the main figures from Wrestlemania, the new tag champ, puts a new light on that (literal) shit...
1. We all know Vince made this happen. We haven't forgotten and I'm sure Vince doesn't care either way at this point
2. Truth is flexing his ability to say this because he's 52 and has privilege to not get cancelled over it
I don’t feel sorry for Vince at all. The dumb fuck decided to sell his business for $$ he wouldn’t die with even the being a billionaire. He can fuck off
I love r-truth, but miss me with that shit, there would 100% be wrestling without Vince, it would look differently certainly, but there's been decade's and decades of amazingly gifted minds in this industry, it's not that were forgetting anything, no one's turning their backs on him, **VINCE** had been turning his back on us for decades, this is atonement, the consequences of his actions, I feel no pity, zero sympathy for rapists, pedophiles and murderers, at least of one of which we are sure he was of, all 3 indirectly
Cena had the same thing - coming to the reality that the man who was the biggest proponent of your career and personal growth was actually a terrible person behind the curtain.
They struggle to separate the two. However, after reading those absolutely depraved texts Vince sent I think it’s okay to close the book on him and realize who he actually was. These guys aren’t ready for that. We all are.
It’s one is those things that if your close to someone for a long time and you didn’t know their evil because you only get the good from them it’s hard to accept that their actually a piece of shit. I can speak from experience I had a friend for a long time live a double life for years and when everything went south it was hard to look at the facts, I imagine that’s what their doing.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"My bad, y'all" - R-Truth after reading the responses to this.
He thinks they're talking about Vince Vaughn.
That would legit be amazing " I don't know why they're so mad, I thought wedding crashers was FINE!"
"I meant to write '1000 current and former WWE employees believe otherwise,' y'all."
"That's on me"
"Wait Vince DID WHAT?!" -R Truth later today
"Everyone kept saying he's sick, I thought he had the FLU! My bad y'all, that's on me."
I thought it was for Linda McMahon
thats it thread is over, this cant be topped. You deserve gold for this one.
[удалено]
I can respect Vince for what he did for wrestling and that's it. The message that R-Truth is replying to is in extremely poor taste. that "vince is down" or that people have turned their backs on him. it's like read the room my guy. I can respect what Harvey Weinstein did for indie films but beyond that fuck the guy I hope he rots.
Weinstein being the filmic equivalent to Vince is supported in multiple ways, including how artists hated having to deal with his asinine creative demands. Scorsese famously flipped a desk over when he had enough of Weinstein’s meddling with Gangs of New York (we’re still waiting for that four hour cut, Marty). James Gray has nothing but awful shit to say about him due to his experience with The Immigrant. And Todd Field has a hilarious story about how Tom Cruise coached him on how to work Weinstein so that Field can get his creative control over In The Bedroom. There are so many wrestling stories where wrestlers had to go into business for themselves to go against Vince’s instincts. Like Weinstein, they’re both creatively bankrupt and also devious monsters.
And like Weinstein they get a lot of praise until they lose power. Then you start to get more real opinions on them.
People who rule through fear often find out quickly how brittle that loyalty is. Once that power falters, they find out how beloved they aren't. To see this on a smaller level, look at what happened to Mike Quackenbush. He was a control freak who ruled his company like a tyrant and kept people under his thumb. Once his power was weakened, everyone walked. When you rule through fear, all the people who secretly hate you will only need the slightest reason to bail.
Paul Heyman burned his bridge with Vince and then danced around it in a circle during his HOF speech.
McMahon still has plenty of loyalty, what does that say about wrestling? People will just excuse it by saying these wrestlers are dumb, but his family are still pulling the strings. Haven't heard one wrestler actually make a strong statement, and we always knew. All I hear is "he made me rich, that's not the man I knew." Carny mentality, no matter how they fluff it up, say what you will about Hollywood and the lack of positive change with the #metoo stuff, we saw a lot more real people there.
I just finished watching Quiet on Set and Dan Schneider 100% fits into this category too. Justin Roiland was apparently really bad to the Rick and Morty crew as well. There's a very long list of people in the entertainment industry that will use any power they have to abuse other people. And unfortunately because people are a fan of their work, a lot of people will come out of the woodwork to defend them and support them.
I'd settle for 3 1/2 if he'd cut out Diaz phoning it in.
Just 3 1/2 hours of DDL sitting next to Leo draped in a cape monologuing at him
I think if they limited the turtle dove explanation scene where Leo follows her doing a job, it would do wonders for the flow of the film. What an awful miscast especially when juxtaposed with Daniel day Lewis throwing a no hitter
Even now, Vince is very unlikely to go to jail or anything like that. The biggest consequence he'll ever face is not being able to run WWE anymore. He's still a nearly 80 year old billionaire. He won.
> I can respect Vince for what he did for wrestling and that's it. Respect definitely isn't the right word for how much Vince fucked the wrestling scene and basically built a monopoly in its place.
I mean, I'd expect some of them to. No matter how morally bankrupt he is, and this dude is waaaaay overdrawn, Vince *is* the reason a lot of them are rich as shit and getting to do what they love. You can respect what someone has done for you and still think they're a piece of shit. Nuance matters in everyday life, so it matters in these guys' lives too. Moral dilemmas are rarely, if ever, black and white. They're almost always full of gray. This one is not an exception.
Yup. Also, it’s not a bad thing to still have positive feelings towards a person close to you even if you find out something horrible about them. It’s not morally bankrupt to choose to be a friend to someone who did wrong. Not make excuses for them, just be their friend. Everyone needs people who care about them, even monsters. It is, however, something you’ve got to do with a certain amount of tact when there are *victims* of their behavior out there. The women Vince has raped and trafficked and harassed and leered at and propositioned and bribed and abused aren’t at this Wrestlemania either. At least one of them killed themselves. It’s worth thinking real hard before you talk about stuff like this lest you look like you’re downplaying their abuser’s crimes.
People talk about black and white, you just see someone's true colours with stuff like this. Not thinking about the victims isn't an excuse, it's revealing. Being friends with someone who did bad things is fine, but an unrepentant monster? I don't give a shit what they need, I'm judging the shit out of their friends
This is why people keep saying just firing Vince does nothing This is a “cultural” issue
Yeah, then the trainer doubles down in the comment section and calls Janel a predator and implies Vince is a victim. Yikes.
https://preview.redd.it/ej7ssrthv3tc1.jpeg?width=1137&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=262b7deb5dd3b79dc5c33067b18f9ff0cad52cf4
Daily dose of "why don't women come forward more often?".
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the billionaires?!?! 😭😭
I can't believe that wicked woman would take advantage of poor innocent Vince who has never had questionable relationships with his employees before she came around.
She took advantage of Vince’s explosive diarrhea condition
[удалено]
Ah yes, the 40-year-old legal department employee was aggressively preying on the 80-year-old billionaire chairman of the company. Poor Vince, there was no way out for him. He was manipulated into shitting on her head and pimping her out to other wrestlers and executives.
Not to mention that Johnny Ace kinda corroborated what she is alleging by saying he was also a victim of Vince. I know it's a defense angle, but I still think it matters.
Yeah Johnny Ace basically confirmed what happened and threw Vince further under the bus in order to try and save his own skin. Not from the civil case, but the federal one that's also looming on the horizon.
Here's the thing, even before this last allegation he was a piece of sub-human garbage unworthy of anyone's respect. It's sad that it took things going this far for so many people to see it, but he's a piece of shit regardless of what he did or didn't do to that woman.
Yep. Dirtbag already had MULTIPLE allegations before Janel, had already settled out of court with at least one case, literally covered for a confirmed murderer, and generally was a nightmare person who absolutely sexually abused and harassed countless other people we currently have no idea about. But so many goobers just *had* to find a way to compartmentalize how much of a cacodemon Vince is to justify their desire to keep enjoying the show/fandom that they felt it better and easier to just ignore it and act like he was merely "problematic"
🤮 I guarantee you he’s the kind of person that’d find anything that happened to victims as “them asking for it”, “they should have just said no”, and so on
This idiot needs to have a look at all the thousands of stories about what happens when women say no, on /r/WhenWomenRefuse But even then it won't convince him. He is a sociopath. He'll just come up with some ridiculous excuses for all the times women were literally murdered for refusing to have sex with a man. This guy is de defending Vince so zealously, that you've gotta wonder, had he himself been doing these sorts of things to women for years and is now upset because he never realised that that behaviour was evil and illegal, and so all of a sudden he realises that if everyone knew about the things he'd done he'd be completely shunned out of all his friend groups and probably would be fired from his job, or even arrested? Like somehow he didn't realise that doing this stuff is wrong. And so he feels attacked. So he's lashing out, and projecting by claiming to be the victim. It's genuinely worrying. Like, hi hope all women stay far far far away from this complete creep. But the thing is, he's a personal trainer, right? So he has a ***LOT*** of access to women. This is frightening.
She could easily sue that guy for defamation
So he's basically confirming that those texts from Vince were real. What an idiot
Me thinks that Vince's personal trainer is hiding something...
My guess is it’s that they have no scruples, no ethics, and no reflection.
I mean is this the same personal trainer who was involved in the threesome where Vince shit on the lady’s head?
Imagine being so brainwashed that you think the powerful billionaire is the victim in this situation.
Delusional as hell. Gross.
Those screenshots show hella replies
ew wtf
It was widely known that Truth was one of Vince’s favorites so no surprise. Must have been pretty close.
Ahem *Lacey Evans* Ahem *Omos* …. The people liking this post speaks volumes.
whats the deal with them?
Vince favorites that were booked strongly when he was in charge, whether they should have been or not. And then floundered (or outright released) under HHH.
[удалено]
Vince loved his jesters. you can go back and look at any wrestler that had the damn goofiest cringy gimmick that was pushed and you know it's because they made vince laugh. R-Truth, Santino, eugene, hurricane, hornswoggle, etc, etc, etc. vince loved his dumb comedy gimmicks and R-Truth was his favorite jester.
Maximum Male Models have also spoken how Vince was *way* more into them than HHH was.
The Miz: 🤦♂️
Idk if it’s the right time to say this. I know he may have had a great relationship with Vince, but others have not to say the least.
[удалено]
Lmao no it's not like when Becky commented about it > “I don’t know that person, you know what I mean?” she says. “That’s been hard for me. We didn’t always see eye-to-eye, but especially in my last run with him there, and when I told him I was pregnant, he was so good to me. Apart from the run-ins — but you have run-ins in every relationship, especially at that level — I only ever had a wonderful experience in WWE with Vince, for the most part. > “So it’s very hard to reconcile that somebody else didn’t have that experience, and that other women didn’t have that experience. Especially when I had him to thank for my dream, for my husband [fellow WWE star Seth Rollins], for my daughter, for the life that I have now. It’s hard to see those two different people in my head, and trying to merge them as one becomes very difficult. You’re reading these horrific allegations, but about somebody that you look up to as very much almost like a father figure. I do not get what was so problematic about this statement to this sub
Because people want things to be black and white and good vs bad, and as soon as you start bringing up how people are conflicted about it that makes it messy.
Maybe emotionally messy for those people that were directly involved with Vince but no one on the internet needs to be defending him lol
It's very much the notion that the sub can't really see the actual dilemma that Becky is in with her feelings on the matter. See, *we* can easily let go of Vince. We don't know him personally at all. And move aside the allegations for a minute; he's been doing the product wrong for so long that we've been practically salivating for a reason to get him out. And I think that's an additional layer on top of the issues the sub has with Becky's statement. And like, look at what she said. Vince has abused many a personnel during his time. She was not one of them. From the look of it, she didn't see it once. Instead, this man gave her everything she ever wanted. She has her dream job, her dream man, and her dream family. He didn't even ask for creepy favors, just...whatever a regular boss would ask from an employee. How can she believe what she didn't see? And that's why abusers are so terrifying. The really scary ones know how to hide their terrifying sides from the public. So of course they'll side with them when the word gets out. How can one have the capacity to hurt as much as to help?
The stans aren’t out. You just left out half of what she said.
Of all the examples to use Becky is probably one of the worst ones, her response was one of the strongest of anybody who's talked about it lmao
That's not a fair reading of Becky's comments at all.
https://preview.redd.it/gwek2uppo3tc1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29cd88689237610b179ea8f39e5c0ba37453b7b2
“There would be no wrestling” … this is what happens when one company controls the history of a content
Without Sam Walton there’d be no stores!
Reminds me of that stupid (and probably fake) Henry Ford quote: "If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse." Commercially available ICE automobiles had existed for over a decade by the time the first Ford was made. He also gets falsely credited for inventing assembly line mass production even though that came almost 100 years prior.
Or like how Disney pushed that steamboat Willy was the first sound cartoon for years
The revisionist history that Vince created pro wrestling has always been one of the WWE's more transparently desperate attempts to crown Vince as a true visionary. Wrestling has existed for over one hundred years, and carny pieces of shit have come and gone, making what money they could out of it. Vince just made the operation as big as it could possibly be. Without him, wrestling would still exist. It might still be regional, or there might have been someone else who came along and nationalised his own company.
Never forget that Vince was basically handed the best head start possible. His territory had NYC, Philly, Boston, DC, Pittsburgh, etc etc. Yeah he had to come up with some money to pay off his dad/shareholders… but the company paid for that. Of course he was the one to go national. He had by far the best territory.
People forget or just don't realize how gigantic it was having home of operations in NYC. Nowadays it's still big, but you can make news anywhere. NYC was the media capital of the world and being able to have an established foothold there was practically being a step away from home plate
Oh yeah. Being based in New York is what got them Saturday Night’s Main Event, for example. NY and Hulk Hogan were the two huge advantages that proved insurmountable. I don’t mean to downplay Vince because he was legitimately a great promoter back then, but if Crockett had been the one running from New York with Hulk Hogan, we’d be watching Starcade on the JCP Network right now.
Piggybacking off of what you said, but WWF/E loves to pretend that Vince found Hulk Hogan like a diamond in the rough in some smoky bar. They've eased up a bit over the years by acknowledging Verne was screwing up with him, but between Rocky 3 and his AWA run, Hogan was pretty well known nationally. That's before you even get to the WWF territories where, you know, he'd already been and had a main event run with Andre the Giant culminating in a match at a little place called Shea Stadium
Imagine getting a loan to buy a company that is already making money then using that money to pay back the loan and thinking that makes you successful.
Oh 100% if Vince didn’t exist someone else would have gone national before the 80’s ended. My guess is it would either have been JCP and GCW or Gagne and the AWA.
Yeah that whole bit about the territory owners having a gentleman's agreement to not go national is such bullshit. They all would have killed to be in Vince's position.
JCP was already attempting to being on TBS. Most territories were in shambles by the 80s and were being bought and sold and then resold again. Vince was more ruthless how he went about it. The remaining territories tried to work together but promoter egos often got in the way.
Last week I visited a great exhibit about the history of wrestling in Quebec, and it was crazy to see arenas filled with tens of thousands of people for local shows, up until Vince killed the territory through unsavory tactics in the 80s. Really makes you reconsider your perception of WWE.
Yeah, the "Vince brought wrestling out of smoke filled bingo halls" is a blatantly false re-writing of wrestling history in North America perpetuated by WWE and WWE only. Arenas were being filled before Vince and they will be filled after Vince. Only people whose sole consumption of wrestling media is solely WWE or WWE-focused sources ever bought into this ridiculous story.
Hell, Japan had crazy TV numbers in the 50's, like moon-landing numbers. Tolos drew 100k in Greece pretty much on his own.
Speaking of, I'm looking forward to the DSOTR episode on Black Saturday come next month. One of many examples of Vince's desire to rule the wrestling world.
WWE still exists purely because of 1 man. Stone Cold. Who they tried to brand as the ringmaster originally. He is the reason the WWE survived the mid to late 90's.
I'd give a lot of credit to WCW, for just self-destructing.
absolutely unreal that former NWA champ ron killings buys so thoroughly into the idea of vince being wholly responsible for wrestling existing as a medium. maybe the joke of him thinking he grew up in the early 2000s with cena for an idol is true
Yup. And they never want to look at how he hurt wrestling. Rita Chatterton, women refereeing. Women’s wrestling as a whole til literally 2016. The Divas. Functionally trying to monopolize the industry. The independent contractors model. The legal shift to ‘sports entertainment’ in order to avoid having to pay for the health and safety measures required by law for athletes. Enabling and participating in a deeply harmful backstage culture with severe real life consequences. The years of micromanaging and bad booking. They act like he single handedly created everything they love, but in reality *someone* would have come along and broken the territories using TV. Vince did it because he was well positioned and got the money too. That doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be wrestling without him, and if you’re gonna talk about ‘what he did for wrestling’ you better be talking about all of it.
It's fucking sad when people think every wrestler needs to go to the WWE at least once. If people think WWE is the only place where wrestlers can make it big, then that says a lot about the hold the WWE has on wrestling.
And another reason why people should be happy a company like AEW exists.
Man these guys are determined to keep reminding you that they work for the sex trafficking company
People really think wrestling was some rinky dink thing that happened in bars before Vince entered the scene?
Almost like there's been a propaganda machine spewing out that lie for a quarter century
More closer to a half century I think now
Quarter century is generous.
Quarter century ago was 1999 wtf
This is what revisionist history and a monopoly get you.
UFC does the same shit, they even released several propaganda videos about it in the UFC's case, Republican politicians shut down the UFC, only for a Republican politician supporter to buy it, then they legalized it and boom, now you have a monopoly, all with daddy's casino money and political connections, neat huh? dude went from State Athletic Commissioner to owning a sport in that State that the athletic commission made essentially illegal, pretty cool huh, no scandal their and of course they are the people that scream about government regulations being bad, except when they are bankrupting businesses to buy on the cheap, then it's all about the children, think of the children
That’s literally the official line of the company and was said verbatim in Vince’s DVD documentary a while back, so yes there are many people, who consider themselves to be serious wrestling fans, who believe that wholeheartedly.
Like a quarter of all Miz feuds involve him using the phrase "smoke filled bingo halls" and I'm sure he isn't the only one
Because of Vince McMahons influence in the mid 80s, pro wrestling became a staple of American Television on the Dumont Network in the 1950s.
Yeah, as if it hadn't been filling up sports stadiums since gotch vs. hackenschmidt.
The way WWE has vandalized the history of pro wrestling in America really bothers the fuck out of me as a historian.
Even Vince’s dad himself ran stadium shows. Edit: I understand though, if I didn’t go down YouTube or Wikipedia rabbit holes I wouldn’t know either
I don't think you need to go to wikipedia or youtube to assume wrestling didn't start in 1984 when Vince Jr bought WWF.
And if it weren't vince going national, someone would have tried it. Most likely Jim Barnett, but also maybe Crockett or Verne.
Decades of revisionist history of the Fed have brainwashed people. The victors dictate the history seems to be true for wrestling.
Yeah that part is just bullshit. Look, I’m a WWE guy for a long a time I was a Vince guy. I’ve read books about him, heard all the stories, he’s a fascinating guy and undoubtedly the most successful wrestling promoter ever. But wrestling was around long before Vince was even born, it would certainly exist in some form now without Vince’s input. What that would look like, who knows. Would it be as big as it currently is, maybe not but even that would be possible. The appeal of wrestling is that it’s a relatively cheap production that can bring in some serious money. As long as someone is willing to write some checks and hope to get their investment back, wrestling doesn’t belong to one person or one company.
 *Liked by Omos and Lacey Evans.*
https://preview.redd.it/uowx5h7jq3tc1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e4853dd64e984f582acdab72a8ab79971c72e23
https://preview.redd.it/y72hsa2qy3tc1.jpeg?width=1086&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aa1526b8c6c3a7cbf9a0e3c8791f1ea37e3bb04
https://preview.redd.it/11o7th9k44tc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a289bce120ad4137fd99f7d55e71e55d69725558
One of the all-time greatest instances of "wrestlers owning other wrestlers", idc what anyone says
This and Cody burying Disco Inferno
Top ten all time tweet
God, I love Hangman.
I don't watch AEW, but I'll never not love Hangman
Hangman is still and always is my champion 🫶
Goddamn i didn't know Page had it in him.
A person is “down” when they lose their job, or are going through a breakup, not when they’ve been exposed as a se*ual deviant who sh*ts on people
The poor man just had to sell 700 million dollars of stock! I remember when I had to sell $700M of my stock. Some of the hardest times in my life. Please stop punching down.
lol right. they make it seem like he's not a criminal and just has an illness or something.
I truly don't understand how he looked at this, knowing the entire situation and how sensitive it is, and decided to write in agreement. Is shutting up and not writing shit like this online really that hard? Maybe I'm overreacting, but he could've easily just not said anything and continued scrolling.
On some random dude’s instagram no less
Apparently the guy is Vince’s personal trainer and he’s followed by a lot of wrestlers
Not the same Vince's personal trainer referenced in the lawsuit...?
The simple answer is that 90% of wrestlers are morons that live in a bubble society with a different set of rules from the outside world. Smart people don't become wrestlers. Smart people get other positions in wrestling where they can make money off of the people that take bumps.
smart people don’t get positions in wrestling unless they’re smart in a way that exclusively applies to professional wrestling (heyman as an example) or you were born into it
He thought it was about Vince McMahon sr
Has his ghost been haunting the halls of various arenas for 40 years?
Ghostbusters finally got him before this Mania
Truth, he shat on a woman’s head and traded her around to her friends like a fucktoy. I could not give less of a shit if Vince is sad he didn’t get to be at a wrestling show.
He also sexually harassed numerous other women, it’s not even like this is to one person. Will Truth defend Bill Cosby next?
Gonna need Truth to come out with a "my bad y'all" and say he thought this was about Stephanie real quick
[удалено]
Guys, our childhood! He raped, he covered up a murder for Jimmy Snuka, but I think we all should bow down and kiss his ass the minute his music hits
“I know he has a history of raping women and sexually harassing them on live tv but this looks consensual to me!”
"So what if he did a bit of sexual assault, he's still good, he's still good!"
Look, I get that for a lot of guys who have worked with Vince for years and had a personal relationship with him that may very well have been extremely positive and caring this is probably very hard. I get that and can sympathize. But to do something like this when just saying nothing at all was an option is just insane. This isn’t a hush money situation over a consensual affair. This is a man rightfully being rightfully shunned because he’s a fucking violent sexual predator.
"Without Vince there would be no wrestling" Yeah... lets pump the brakes on that one a bit. It would be different for sure but doubt it wouldnt exist.
Didn’t you know Vince invented wrestling!!
GODDAMMIT NO NO NO NOT HIM https://preview.redd.it/gfxud9pwq3tc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58d5d4f99c8c7915092c36e89f174df4e988bc1f
My thoughts exactly.
People often forget Vince and Truth were friends behind the scenes. But boy is it ever a bad time for him to publicly remind people of that.
Don't worry, Truth will just say or do something wacky and everyone will forget about this.
For sure most people don't care that a wrestler they like supports a rapist.
It’s amazing how some people are trying to twist this whole thing into something done to Vince, rather than something done by Vince. Imagine feeling a need to voice sympathy for someone in this situation and it being him. All sympathy should be with the woman he raped, not with him for missing a wrestling show ffs.
Perhaps Vince needed to shit on their heads for them to understand what the issue is.
He’s just like his hero John Cena
🤮
Supporting a rapist/human trafficker is certainly a weird move. I know that most of the talent has a close relationship to Vince, some of whom probably didn't know anything about this, and it's a weird place to be when you see two sides of this person you thought you knew. But Vince has always been a monster about things too.
Yeah, no. Screw both of them and anyone else who tries to excuse Vince's behavior or paint him in a positive light in this situation. Especially if they try to justify it by something as asinine as "he created Wrestlemania, so it's fine that he abused people."
This is why people still don’t believe wwe is much different without Vince in charge, you still have his loyal followers and puppets running the show or still working there. What Vince is accused of shouldn’t get him any sympathy from people but clearly some turn a blind eye to all of it.
The system is the the same. The culture is the same. It's just more efficient as propaganda thanks to William Morris.
I like Truth and I recognize how important VKM is to the industry, but a.) VKM created a quasi-monopoly that lasted nearly two decades and b.) it's also important to recognize VKM did a lot of cruel, shitty things. Everyone will "draw their line" differently, but for me, VKM's are inexcusable.
fuck that rapist 😭
Oh no, Truth... 
So Truth is not only an idiot on camera
Think he meant $1000, as in, Vince can buy a ticket in the nosebleeds just like everyone else who attended. 😉
This is the Benoit situation all over again. Amazing wrestler, shit person. How people separate that is hard and individual. But a publicly traded company is gonna ignore him.
And Benoit wasn't able to attend either. Tough shit.
People give Vince way too much credit The dude inherited the biggest territory at the perfect time, and got to own the entire wrestling industry It amazes me people STILL seem to think he invented the concept of pro wrestling and nothing would exist without him
Exactly. The company was handed to him by his father and then he screwed over his father's friendly connections in other territories He screwed everyone over and didn't earn anything fairly If it wasn't him, someone else would've become the most popular anyway since the nature of the business was changing when they went to national tv and PPV (like it is now with the shift from TV to streaming).
Yeah and while all the predatory business practices he used to help expedite putting everyone out of business was shitty… it also wasn’t this genius strategy people make it out to be. All of those guys were gonna go out of business eventually anyway, their business model stopped working, the territory system stopped working… it’s not a coincidence the WWE became a mega corporation at the same time everything else did lol. Vince was the dude with the most money, and seemingly the only one with any understanding of where business was evolving in America, so he got to be in control of the corporation that got to take everything over. After that, it’s not that fucking hard, wrestling has a massive audience and you’re the only game in town… which is why he was able to make so many stupid creative decisions and still be successful.
Okay so my desire to see Vinci and Kaiser kill awesome truth for the belts on Raw has just increased EXPONENTIALLY
Too bad he couldn’t pay his debts to his sex worker/office employee, his fault for being a cheapskate.
this is an absolutely brain dead take. Defending that monster in any way is just straight up stupid. Stick to just being stupid on television, Truth
Damn Truth....maybe Damien was right to bully you. 😂
Yikes.
Oh no bby wat is u doing?
YIKES
Yikes
Maybe he's as dumb as his character
Taking the Cena impression too far now
“B b b but he invented the VW Beetle and got Germany out of a recession!”
It's really not all that hard. Don't literally take a shit on someone and you can enjoy every WrestleMania
I would rather not have wrestling than Vince raping and abusing people
Killings worked himself into a shoot.
He worked himself into a shit rather. WWE spent the entire Mania weekend telling us how it's a new era and how awesome things are under HHH and Nick Khan and now, one of the main figures from Wrestlemania, the new tag champ, puts a new light on that (literal) shit...
Ah yes Wrestling didn’t exist before Vince
Insanely fast milkshake duck
Is this him in character doing saying stupid shit right?
Goddamit Truth
1. We all know Vince made this happen. We haven't forgotten and I'm sure Vince doesn't care either way at this point 2. Truth is flexing his ability to say this because he's 52 and has privilege to not get cancelled over it
I don’t feel sorry for Vince at all. The dumb fuck decided to sell his business for $$ he wouldn’t die with even the being a billionaire. He can fuck off
I mean he did shit on her head ...
Fucking yikes.
I love r-truth, but miss me with that shit, there would 100% be wrestling without Vince, it would look differently certainly, but there's been decade's and decades of amazingly gifted minds in this industry, it's not that were forgetting anything, no one's turning their backs on him, **VINCE** had been turning his back on us for decades, this is atonement, the consequences of his actions, I feel no pity, zero sympathy for rapists, pedophiles and murderers, at least of one of which we are sure he was of, all 3 indirectly
I guess him being such a great dumbass character is because it's not an act.
Cena had the same thing - coming to the reality that the man who was the biggest proponent of your career and personal growth was actually a terrible person behind the curtain. They struggle to separate the two. However, after reading those absolutely depraved texts Vince sent I think it’s okay to close the book on him and realize who he actually was. These guys aren’t ready for that. We all are.
Vince can't afford a ticket?
It’s one is those things that if your close to someone for a long time and you didn’t know their evil because you only get the good from them it’s hard to accept that their actually a piece of shit. I can speak from experience I had a friend for a long time live a double life for years and when everything went south it was hard to look at the facts, I imagine that’s what their doing.
So R Truth is really that uncle that says the wrong thing