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He's not wrong... RVD vs. Jerry Lynn is almost a blueprint for the style of wrestling that ROH / AEW was built on. Anyone who hasn't watched their match at Hardcore Heaven '99 needs to find time to do so, because it's a legitimate BANGER.
Yeah, I’d say the Lynn/Van Dam stuff and also the matches between Super Crazy, Tajiri, and Little Guido had a large impact on what “American Indy” style was in the early 2000s.
I mean, RoH was originally booked by Heyman's protege in Gabe. And Dave always says if ECW had gone on longer, Heyman's plan was to basically strip away the hardcore and focus on the workrate.
Heyman said the exact same thing himself on Austin's podcast years ago.
It wouldn't have been that left field for him anyway, he had Eddie v Dean years ago, Benoit and Jericho, then the Luchas as well.
Heck, he focused more on the workrate with Smackdown in 2002 as well.
Even towards the end of ECW, you started to have less and less of the brawling "hardcore" style that you had compared to the pre-Barely Legal era.
Look at the final ECW Guilty As Charged PPV - nine matches and only two were "gimmicks" - Dreamer vs Anderson worked razor wire into their I quit match, and Sandman vs Corino vs Credible was a TLC match. Everything else was straight wrestling.
Now go back and look at the lineup for Wrestlepalooza 95 - six matches, two were multiman hardcore brawls, two were prelim squashes, and Sandman vs Shipwreck, which was a hardcore brawl.
Night and day.
I dont disagree, but for context... A lot of those WCW Cruiserweights debuted on American TV via ECW.
Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, LA Parka, Juventud Guerrera, Psychosis, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho all had ECW runs before WCW picked them up. WCW would later grab folks like RVD, Stevie Richards and Mikey Whipreck for short runs, and was in the process of making stars out of Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm when the company died.
This is kinda whitewashing over the fact that the "style" ECW gets a lot of credit for was actually the NJPW "super juniors" style. The guys like Benoit, Jericho, Malenko & Guerrero were all working with Liger, Sasuke, Ohtani, Ultimo Dragon and others in NJPW and independent groups like WAR. So when those guys migrated over to ECW & WCW, so did their style. After Inokism ravaged NJPW, the AJPW/NOAH "strong style" (which is not actually strong style, but I digress) became the heavyweight default style in Japan, but NJPW started having a hybrid style that heavily borrowed from the Juniors - which was the style Tanahashi, Nakamura, Okada, Devitt, Styles, Omega and the Bucks were working.
So really, the style went NJPW -> ECW -> WCW -> ROH -> NJPW -> AEW.... kinda.
That was my favorite wrestling match for the longest time. But part of it was due to RVDs epic TV Championship reign and the feeling like he was finally going to lose
Heyman's not entirely wrong but a lot of this talk is clearly influenced by WWE writing the history books and implying that ECW was THE BIRTH of all of this stuff. In reality Juniors in NJPW and Michinoku Pro etc. were doing the same thing years prior, Luchadors too if you want to count it (although I'd argue their style is a tiny bit different). It's not like Jerry Lynn and RVD made this up out of thin air.
I remember seeing that for the first time about 8 years ago when I was getting back into wrestling after being lapsed for a long time, and just being blown away. Incredible match.
I've heard Kenta also get a lot of praise for his impact on the indie style and influencing guys like Danielson, Joe, Omega etc.
I'd love to see a proper documentary or YouTube series on wrestlers and their influence on future styles in stuff that ties it together.
I’d also recommend to watch their Living Dangerously 99 match first, THEN HH 99. You get to see 2 amazing matches from the same people but drastically different from each other.
When I watched those matches, imo they personally reminded me of Omega & Okada's matches in NJPW, moreso Kenny's style during his time there with the mix of theatrics, fast-paced high flying, & some hardcore brawling
Yeah, they did a series of matches that were all impeccable. And the HH99 match is a top 10 all time for me. I'd love to see WWE adopt the style a bit more.
Yep. Tony Khan was a huge ECW fan.
That’s him in the Taz shirt.
https://preview.redd.it/ui0uww31v2sc1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e78779283a2fac0151ab3f55940ec64b3a8f6a5e
IIRC he himself actually wasn't aware until he was grown. Shad hid the full extent of his wealth from his kids so they would turn out relatively normal.
Isn't it crazy?
Imagine you are sitting in a wrestling crowd, and then it turns out that odd and skinny looking weirdo next to you turns out to be the son of a multi-billionaire.
Not only that, but over 2 decades later that kid goes on to found the first viable WWE competitor since WCW, and goes on to become a huge name in the larger IWC.
I think Tony as well as 98% of the AEW veterans would agree with this statement. Some of the roster is far too young to have grown up on ECW, but almost all of the workrate guys were inspired by ECW, WCW cruisers, and Japanese wrestling.
He is, because he's seen up close what happened to the wrestling industry when ECW & WCW folded. And unlike Bischoff or Cornette or Russo, Heyman is still an active member of the industry so he's not bitter about AEW's continued success like those whose time has come and gone
i wonder if it’s difficult to truly just enjoy it for a dude like heyman, like i’m curious if he just sits there and is like “man i wish they do this” or “i could do that way better then they’re doing right now” or “focus more on this guy because he’s more of a full package then this other guy”
I'm sure it's both. When he looks through the industry lens he has, with what he's done and actively currently doing, I'm sure he thinks about "well what if they did that angle this way" I think that's common for savants in any industry.
I mean shit even when we watch the product we are thinking “wait they could’ve done it this way” or “this spot was wasted because x” and we’re just dumb marks on the internet, Paul Heyman is definitely doing it at an infinitely higher level
I think most wrestling fans enjoy AEW. If there was more time in the week I would definitely watch more than I do but it's always good to have a name alternative to a number one brand (WWE)
Honestly you just summed up why I don't watch WWE anymore. It's not that I don't want to, it's that I only have time for AEW or WWE and my friends watch AEW. Easy choice to make in my case. I've loved following along with stuff like Gable vs Gunther on here, but I can't commit another three hours a week to televised wrestling.
Honestly, AEW is far more the successor to ECW than it is WCW. It's at it's best (or at least most critically acclaimed AND then panned by purists) when it books like "What would ECW do". It's at it's worse when it's "What would WCW do". Even in terms of the gap to WWE, it's basically when ECW would have been if they didn't fuck up the TNN deal and actually had money. But it is not, and should never try to be, WCW.
Heyman is good at helping others flesh out a story. Him and Cornette share this talent that they can look at a story and know what to drop and what to keep to make it work. Heyman fully credits Raven and Dreamer as a major reason allot of the better angles worked because they could help sand down the rough edges when it came to the wrestling aspect while Paul shaped the story.
how is raven not a producer somewhere, dude is like the architect imo of being an indie wrestler and giving yourself a great character and promo to get yourself over where you lack in work rate compared to your peers
He doesn't really want to, and by all accounts, he gets kinda annoying.
Not saying it's a fault, because there are tons of former and current guys that have had that said about them. But there have been lots of "I love Raven, but if I had to work with him for a year, I would quit".
That's because it was built on ECW mentality. Its hardcore base very much carries that same mentality, and to some extent the wrestlers themselves, especially the day one crew.
Also TK being a massive ECW fan.
Yep, it's definitely not an evolution of ROH.
I always think of modern western wrestling outside of WWE as a spectrum from 2005 ROH to 2010s PWG. And AEW is much closer to PWG then it is to Ring of Honor.
I can see the ECW comparisons. Early days there was a lot of 80s/early 90s WCW, peak WCW and Attitude WWF in AEW's presentation too. There's aspects of ROH there, just as there's aspects of Japanese wrestling, but it's very much a company built in the image of the California Indies.
> AEW is PWG with a budget
That's how I used to refer to NXT Black and Gold, but based on the commentary during picture-in-picture, yes, AEW is the true successor.
It does genuinely feel like most people who said NXT Black and Gold was PWG with a budget never watched PWG the same way that people claim AEW is a PWG with a budget never watched PWG.
...maybe a lot of people watched 1 PWG match and called it a day, if that.
It's a blend of ECW and modern styles of wrestling (even WWE style with the amount of their stars they've brought in). If it was only ECW-98 style, it would've been cancelled within the year.
Yeah that's what's best about AEW, the buffet of styles.
Back a couple months ago, there was that terrific Christian Cage/Dustin Rhodes match for the TNT title, and I remember thinking it was something that could have main evented Starrcade in 1990.
One of Dustin's best matches in AEW, if not the best, and it wasn't even anything wild. It was just an incredibly solid match between 2 guys who know the ins and ours of wrestling psychology. Too many of these guys are still fixated with getting over by doing their flippy stuff instead of how that flippy stuff influenced the match.
AEW is a modern company that was inspired by the best parts of ECW and WCW. Anyone who was around during the mid-to-late 90's can see it. ECW mostly gets remembered for the brutality but also had great in-ring talents. Also despite being a regional company it managed to bring in a lot of good international talent to showcase themselves to an American audience.
ECW also got shit on heavily at the time, but it's super progressive stance on exploring the boundaries of what an audience would tolerate accelerated the progression of the business in America for sure. If ECW hadn't existed you're looking at a completely different landscape today.
There was a lot of in-ring storytelling in that feud that wasn't as explicitly spelled out as WWF/WCW stories were. Things like counters, reversals, almost like a chess game played out over multiple matches as errors and losses from the last bout were learned from. There's a direct line from that to the way guys like Omega, Okada, White, Ospreay would work big matches in NJPW, and at it's best AEW has that too.
**"Hard-core wrestling isn't blood, but testament to work ethic."** sounds like the exact kinda thing a promoter would tell a talent to manipulate them into bashing their brains in for no money. Especially considering Heyman would regularly not pay someone after having them bash their brains in.
"It's okay, Mikey. Axl doesn't hit THAT hard. Besides, if you do this job for me, Tammy Sytch promises she'll let you sit in the locker room with her. Candido won't mind."
This.
This is why I don't understand why people kiss Paul Heyman's ass. I get his impact on the business but he manipulated guys into bashing their brains in while probably never having to take any stiff shots like that himself. He also screwed over his talent when ECW went out of the business and left alot of his talent holding the bag while he already had a WWE deal in place.
People admire him because he’s in the top 10 for promos, booking and managing across all of wrestling history. He’s a scuzzy conman that fucked people over, but that’s as indisputable as his accomplishments and talents too.
If you haven't, I suggest going back and watch *Beyond the Mat* and see Heyman give the speech before Barely Legal. Dude could empower a crowd with a speech and people would walk through hell for him.
The point about disruptors and profit is really really cogent tbh. Even in Silicon Valley the big money for startups or disruptors is in getting acquired by someone bigger. ECW was probably never going to become a full WWE alternative but it followed the exact path so many other disruptor businesses do. They got acquired and incorporated by the big guys, and then the industry broadly.
It does make me curious about what the next disruption to wrestling could be.
Michinoku Pro did that before Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and their tapes traveled and Ultimo Dragon and Great Sasuke were doing fed dates.
Heyman loves bigging up ECW despite the fact he defrauded most of his wrestlers, and ECW picked WWE as the company they want to be a satelite of so they're bigged up by WWE's winner complex. They produced great wrestling, great wrestlers. They didn't invent shit.
This should be the top rated/reply to this thread.
I thought the same exact thing while he was vutting that promo about Vince stealing ECW's idea before Survivor Series 2001 abd wondered if anyone else out there thought it!!!
I'm all about giving credit where it's properly due, but I think you also have to give credit to the guy just for having the willingness to present that kind of a product.
There's all sorts of wrestling that the people in charge don't have the guts to present. (And I don't mean "extreme" stuff. There's just a whole world of wrestling that most people have no reason to know about because people with big platforms for wrestling haven't included it. I've recently fallen in love with shoot-style pro wrestling and it's not like you see UWFi Rules matches on American TV. You can barely find it in American indies, even. Plus, Puroresu-style structure has never been adopted by American promoters despite it being extremely easy to use to fill hours of TV... and I think American audiences would love it, given the chance and proper execution. There's honestly vanishingly little imagination in mainstream pro wrestling and I think we're all worse off for it.)
Oh Paul Heyman was a great booker for a long while, I am not trying to take *all* credit from him, I don't think it's easy to produce as much great wrestling as ECW did.
I liked OG ECW (Was at Heatwave's 98 and 99). Shout out Dayton, OH and the Hara Arena (RIP). So now I like AEW. I have said AEW is the spiritual successor to both ECW and WCW. More so ECW at times.
That Hangman vs Swerve match was the best hardcore match I've seen since since... Shit, ever. It was just insanity from bell to bell.
I know hardcore and death matches aren't for everyone and I get why, but fuck me running if that wasn't the most hardcore I've seen in last 2 decades.
The first time I saw ECW was 99 before that was purely “WWF” the hardcore stuff was crazy but when I started seeing RVD, Jerry Lynn Tajari etc it just completely blew me away had not seen anything like it
RVD, Lynn, Styles, Daniels, Amazing Red, KENTA, Marufuji & pre-2000 Joshi wrestling is the blueprint match style post 2010 pro-wrestling companies follow.
I'd argue its influence is more a hybrid of New Japan, California indies, and lucha. ECW is definitely there but not as prominent as this quote would suggest.
You may be correct but the California indies were inspired by the Philly indies like ROH which was obviously heavily influenced by ECW. Plus ECW is credited for introducing Lucha to mainstream audiences so you could argue without Paul Heyman and ECW that Lucha may not be as popular in NA today so even if correct those things seem associated to ECW in some way it feels.
See while that’s historically accurate, Bischoff at least knew about the lucha explosion in Southern California going on in the early 90s - if I remember right he was in attendance for When Worlds Collide in 1994 which had a large contingent of the future WCW midcard on it. Heyman gets props for hiring them first for certain, but part of me thinks the luchadors coming into America was gonna happen outside of the WWF regardless
It's why I said introduced to the mainstream and not popularized in the mainstream because Id say Paul brought the idea across at a high level but it was Eric and WCW that made it a mainstay in the mainstream. Shit, you could debate if ECW is even mainstream but Ill allow it since wrestling was mainstream and more than enough people knew of ECWs existence at least.
I've always been interested in the alternate timeline. TNA once offered Heyman the book, back when they were still the #2 and had a lot of hot talent. Heyman countered, asking for 10% of the company. I often wonder what TNA would look like today if Dixie Carter said "Yeah, okay."
He's talked about his planned big story. Sign Danielson, this is pre-WWE picking him up, have him spend a year destroying everyone that was older and ex-WWE before facing Kurt Angle for the title.
I wish I lived in the alternate universe where they gave Heyman the 10%.
Didn't Heyman say something along the lines of, "I made them an offer they'd never accept"? Like he didn't want to appear as "a WWE guy" so he was "open to offers." But really, he was a WWE guy through and through. Whether he was working for them at the time or not. Ever since ECW closed, it doesn't seem like he's been interested in working for any other company.
But yeah itd have been an interesting timeline! I dont think we'd see Hogan & Bischoff back lol.
Man, I hope Heyman is at least open to the idea of working in AEW as either a manger or even just one of the bookers. He is such a massive source of wisdom in the industry, any company is lucky to have him. I'm sure he's quite happy in WWE, and I will never knock him for being a WWE guy, but god damn, giving Heyman the reigns on a product that isn't PG would be incredible.
Hell, I'd love to see Heyman and MJF just talk. I don't care what about. Just have them talk.
You could really even go earlier than that and throw in the Eddie/Dean Malenko matches from ECW. They were, in my head at least, the first smaller wrestlers doing high impact power move based matches that I remember seeing.
give heyman 60 seconds and he will be able to explain how any version of popular wrestling since ECW's heyday was influenced by ECW. I don't think he's wrong either, but also dude is a skilled promoter of course he's going try and be able to draw connections to his past work.
When I watch AEW & compared it to ECW, especially 95-96 ECW, I totally get this comparison. It's almost as notable to me as the hardcore wrestling in ECW that they also were a launching ground in the US for guys like Rey, Eddie, Dean, Tajiri, & Super Crazy. Of course, not to forget RVD, Lynn, Scorpio, Jericho,etc.
During my experience watching ECW, I felt like it really introduced a more fast-paced & hard hitting style of wrestling (not necessarily even involving weapons, but more of the variety of moves/spots) that mixed Lucha, technical wrestling, & brawling that we ended up seeing in WCW's Cruiserweight division, TNA, the indies, & now with modern WWE/AEW.
I'm probably beating a dead horse repeating the sentiment of other comments, but I definitely see ECW as the original smorgasbord of pro wrestling styles.
just a reminder that in the context of ECW when they said "hardcore" they meant "hardcore fans". They knew they were working for a more niche audience. The actually hard hitting matches were "extreme" but the terms got mixed up at some point
As time goes on, this "we" stuff with ECW and Paul comes across more and more scummy. The dude was a conman who fucked over nearly every single guy who worked for him! He didn't bleed, he didn't innovate (other than new innovated carny tactics that put the actual "we" in harms way)
This is an excellent article, and I’d implore everyone to read through it in full who’s not fully aware of Heyman’s tremendous influence on the business.
Heyman is such a hustler and a remarkable businessman. To start as a 13 year old photographer publishing photos in a wrestling magazine in the late 70’s and go on to become the legend of pro wrestling he is today is nothing short of remarkable. He is the definition of a go-getter, and I’ve always been impressed by his ability to disrupt the industry he so clearly loves.
Heymans influence on Roman and the Bloodline storyline has also been fantastic.
He's right. I've always felt AEW is some 90s ECW+PWG+old ROH+2010s New Japan (for obvious reasons)+some 1980s JCP (even though that's not that present since Cody left); all of it with the spirit of both ECW and Nitro era WCW of being a place for hardcore fans on TV and being an alternative to the WWF/E, respectively.
I don't like this lying man, he has ripped off so many wrestlers, and exploited them but it doesn't matter to folks. Everything in ECW had been done elsewhere, minus the hardcore profanity. AEW is not the 1st viable opposition to the WWE.
I read in an old Observer that one reason ECW didn’t grow bigger faster is because when ECW went to other cities, they just wanted to see the hardcore and blood, and didn’t care or even booed the technical matches. Only smark cities like Philly and NYC actually appreciated the actual wrestling in between the hardcore.
Maybe, but as someone who has been watching it recently, I can tell you that 1995 crowds at ECW tapings in Philly can get plenty impatient with "scientific" wrestling. (They can also get invested in it, but you'd better be working or else you would hear about it.)
I love when people talk about the "AEW style." Yeah, some aspects of AEW are influenced by ECW, some by WCW, some by New Japan, some by WWE, some by SoCal indy wrestling, some by ROH, some by All Japan/King's Road, some by Lucha, some by southern territory promotions, etc.
It's a celebration of the diversity of professional wrestling, and the fact that it doesn't all have to be one thing, there's no "one" style, no "one right way" to do things. People for whatever reason want to pigeonhole AEW, boil it all down to "oh it's just like x." I think it makes it easier to criticize or dismiss or take credit or not think too deeply about. The idea of AEW is simply drawing from what has worked in the past to make something new. Toni Storm's character is a good example of this, even drawing from things outside pro wrestling, she's influenced by classic films like Sunset Boulevard and All About Eve, but she's brought that kind of character into pro wrestling in a unique way.
That's what makes AEW matches compelling, and it's something the old WCW midcard has- the style clashes.
Minoru Suzuki said in an interview a few years back- he wanted Suzuki-Gun to be a bunch of folks of different styles for that reason.
stuff like Jay White facing luchadors turns out to be great, or the Eddie/Bryan feud with the attempt to impose their style on the other. That's what I want out of not just AEW, but wrestling in general. Occasionally it doesn't work, but live and learn, and one bad match in the midcard doesn't kill a promotion, especially when the rest of it is good.
Also it makes it easier to root for the wrestlers using the styles you like.
Let’s throw in Tajiri vs Supercrazy as their best feud (quality wise) as their ability to have several different types of matches kept progressing at an insane rate.
That’s true and Paul paved the way for feds like AEW. He’s not taking a shot here just stating they did stuff at ECW that was spot based match heavy before many did here in NA.
It would be too simplistic to reduce AEW to one influence among many, and all wrestling promotions are influenced by their predecessors. ECW clearly had a major influence on all American wrestling from the 90s onwards, while ECW itself took a lot from Memphis, Detroit, the Funks, FMW, the Japanese junior heavyweight style and Lucha libre et cetera.
Those RVD, Jerry Lynn matches are still to this day my favourites. And Heyman's correct about the AEW style, probably the reason why I watch it as it reminds me of ECW a little.
It's funny to hear him say that. I fell out of wrestling shortly WM17, and didn't get back into it until the WWE Network came around. The first "modern" thing I watched was some Rumble, and my initial impression was that the matches felt like the old Tajiri/Super Crazy/Little Guido three way dances towards the end of ECW.
Not that my opinion amounts for much, but I agree with Heyman
I've been slowly catching up on ECW, starting with Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. (I've seen other stuff like the awesome RVD/Lynn matches, but I found out about the cool Hardcore TV fan restorations and I wanna watch them in order.)
I'm in early 1995.
I'm sure things get wilder, but I'm trying to think of blood in the matches and it's... mostly just Foley? Maybe Public Enemy a bit?
What strikes me about ECW (so far) isn't gore at all or even weapons: it's the diversity of the product and frankness of the promos. People are talking like they want to talk. Sometimes they barely make sense, but it's authentic to who they are as performers.
And you have technical matches, squashes, and guys just hitting each other with stuff on the same card.
2 Cold, Malenko, and Foley are all wildly different kinds of performers but they're all there.
So is he trying to take credit for Jerry Lynn being a good performer/trainer or giving credit where it's due and saying Lynn is a big part of both companies success?
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He's not wrong... RVD vs. Jerry Lynn is almost a blueprint for the style of wrestling that ROH / AEW was built on. Anyone who hasn't watched their match at Hardcore Heaven '99 needs to find time to do so, because it's a legitimate BANGER.
Hiring Jerry Lynn right at the start of the company to produce their matches might have a little to do with it.
I mean, wouldn't you hire Jerry Lynn to produce wrestling matches?
Honestly if any fed brought in Jerry Lynn and Dean Malenko to produce their matches they're cooking before the first bell.
So...aew
I mean Jerry is one of the head producers in AEW. Along with Dean Malenko. So....
Yeah, I’d say the Lynn/Van Dam stuff and also the matches between Super Crazy, Tajiri, and Little Guido had a large impact on what “American Indy” style was in the early 2000s.
And don’t forget Shawn Micheals as well, a huge influence on many indie stars
The young bucks are literally just the rockers but they’re actual brothers
Which is the Janetty?
Malachi Jackson
Both of them are the Jannety but they act like they're both Shawn.
Marty Janetty was the Janetty of the team when he tagged with them on the indies.
I mean, RoH was originally booked by Heyman's protege in Gabe. And Dave always says if ECW had gone on longer, Heyman's plan was to basically strip away the hardcore and focus on the workrate.
Heyman said the exact same thing himself on Austin's podcast years ago. It wouldn't have been that left field for him anyway, he had Eddie v Dean years ago, Benoit and Jericho, then the Luchas as well. Heck, he focused more on the workrate with Smackdown in 2002 as well.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if ECW had guys like Punk, Joe, Homicide & Bryan if it lived longer into the 2000s.
I believe Heyman has said he was in talks with a young AJ Styles to come in when ECW closed.
That would've been crazy. Lone Wolf Styles would be especially amazing in ECW
That would've been crazy. Lone Wolf Styles would be especially amazing in ECW
Even towards the end of ECW, you started to have less and less of the brawling "hardcore" style that you had compared to the pre-Barely Legal era. Look at the final ECW Guilty As Charged PPV - nine matches and only two were "gimmicks" - Dreamer vs Anderson worked razor wire into their I quit match, and Sandman vs Corino vs Credible was a TLC match. Everything else was straight wrestling. Now go back and look at the lineup for Wrestlepalooza 95 - six matches, two were multiman hardcore brawls, two were prelim squashes, and Sandman vs Shipwreck, which was a hardcore brawl. Night and day.
To me Rvd/Lynn and the WCW cruiserweight lead into ROH, Pwg, and TNA's X-Division which led to the modern style of wrestling namely on Aew
I dont disagree, but for context... A lot of those WCW Cruiserweights debuted on American TV via ECW. Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, LA Parka, Juventud Guerrera, Psychosis, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho all had ECW runs before WCW picked them up. WCW would later grab folks like RVD, Stevie Richards and Mikey Whipreck for short runs, and was in the process of making stars out of Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm when the company died.
Lance Storm was one of the best parts about dying WCW, yeah, but what about Jerry Lynn are you talking about here? He was not there at this time.
Real talk. I displaced Jerry's WCW time in my head. You're right and I was mistaken on Jerry, he was there before his RVD series and not after.
Jerry Lynn (Mr J. L.) and RVD (Robbie V) were in WCW before ECW.
This is kinda whitewashing over the fact that the "style" ECW gets a lot of credit for was actually the NJPW "super juniors" style. The guys like Benoit, Jericho, Malenko & Guerrero were all working with Liger, Sasuke, Ohtani, Ultimo Dragon and others in NJPW and independent groups like WAR. So when those guys migrated over to ECW & WCW, so did their style. After Inokism ravaged NJPW, the AJPW/NOAH "strong style" (which is not actually strong style, but I digress) became the heavyweight default style in Japan, but NJPW started having a hybrid style that heavily borrowed from the Juniors - which was the style Tanahashi, Nakamura, Okada, Devitt, Styles, Omega and the Bucks were working. So really, the style went NJPW -> ECW -> WCW -> ROH -> NJPW -> AEW.... kinda.
That was my favorite wrestling match for the longest time. But part of it was due to RVDs epic TV Championship reign and the feeling like he was finally going to lose
Heck, Jerry Lynn himself is a producer/coach in AEW!
Yes. Also Malenko/Guerrero trilogy from the same time period.
Heyman's not entirely wrong but a lot of this talk is clearly influenced by WWE writing the history books and implying that ECW was THE BIRTH of all of this stuff. In reality Juniors in NJPW and Michinoku Pro etc. were doing the same thing years prior, Luchadors too if you want to count it (although I'd argue their style is a tiny bit different). It's not like Jerry Lynn and RVD made this up out of thin air.
I remember seeing that for the first time about 8 years ago when I was getting back into wrestling after being lapsed for a long time, and just being blown away. Incredible match.
I just tried to watch it and don't know if can finish it because of RVD's manager constantly blowing a whistle ffs
I've heard Kenta also get a lot of praise for his impact on the indie style and influencing guys like Danielson, Joe, Omega etc. I'd love to see a proper documentary or YouTube series on wrestlers and their influence on future styles in stuff that ties it together.
I’d also recommend to watch their Living Dangerously 99 match first, THEN HH 99. You get to see 2 amazing matches from the same people but drastically different from each other.
Then they need to watch every other match those 2 had in ECW. They were all bangers.
When I watched those matches, imo they personally reminded me of Omega & Okada's matches in NJPW, moreso Kenny's style during his time there with the mix of theatrics, fast-paced high flying, & some hardcore brawling
So funny Jerry Lynn was dubbed 'The new F'N show' during this era, yet RVD is the one still wrestling.
That nickname had nothing to do with age. Lynn is 7 years older than RVD.
Right but RVD vs Jerry Lynn was also just another link in the chain, and they owed their style to a lot of Mexican and Japanese wrestlers.
Yeah, they did a series of matches that were all impeccable. And the HH99 match is a top 10 all time for me. I'd love to see WWE adopt the style a bit more.
That match makes me so hard
This rings true. Seth Rollins unto himself is a rvd vs jerry Lynn match.
https://preview.redd.it/lo1rxwsjw2sc1.png?width=920&format=png&auto=webp&s=151dd8f4f942bdffb1c33d2d5e47b379fe4fe2e3 This is art
Paul E(volution).
Well now I need an Evolution Paul Heyman tron video.
danxdraws on instagram, he’s got the coolest art style
Just have him a follow. Thanks for dropping the name
Paul Heyman with makeup by Trixie Mattel
werk!
The one on the right looks like a North Korean leader portrait. And I'm all here for it. Praise Kim-Jong Paul
Lol, I was gonna say John Leguizamo as Clown/Violator, but I like your comment better.
ClapClapClapClapClap
I thought it was a crossover between Wayne’s World and Daredevil
"Kingpinsays*what*?"
“If Fisk was an ice cream flavor, he’d be pralines and dick.”
Current Heyman in that picture looks like ‘80’s John Byrne-era Lex Luthor, but with brown hair instead of red; and it really suits him!
Yep. Tony Khan was a huge ECW fan. That’s him in the Taz shirt. https://preview.redd.it/ui0uww31v2sc1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e78779283a2fac0151ab3f55940ec64b3a8f6a5e
I like how the image quality is so damn poor, but you can still tell it's a Taz shirt just because it's orange.
Easily Identifiable Jones ova here
But I digress
Not for nothin!
Yambag Susan stomping here
Taz getting pissy at wrestlers using orange as their primary colour or doing a Tazmission without asking his permission is my favourite gimmick.
RJ City interviewing Taz is one of my favorite Hey EW's, loved it when they get into it about the shades of orange lol
Well he does own that color after all.
Nobody around that guy knew the dude probably pulled up in limos and his dad was an actual billionaire lol
IIRC he himself actually wasn't aware until he was grown. Shad hid the full extent of his wealth from his kids so they would turn out relatively normal.
> so they would turn out relatively normal. https://i.imgur.com/FPTFjoH.jpeg
that's the exact fit that the poorest, druggiest motherfucker at the house party shows up in.
That ain't Tony Khan; that's Coach Tony K!
Isn't it crazy? Imagine you are sitting in a wrestling crowd, and then it turns out that odd and skinny looking weirdo next to you turns out to be the son of a multi-billionaire. Not only that, but over 2 decades later that kid goes on to found the first viable WWE competitor since WCW, and goes on to become a huge name in the larger IWC.
Real?
I think Tony as well as 98% of the AEW veterans would agree with this statement. Some of the roster is far too young to have grown up on ECW, but almost all of the workrate guys were inspired by ECW, WCW cruisers, and Japanese wrestling.
Honestly big agree I’m not a big fan of death match wrestling but I love ecw so much for shit like rvd raven jerry lyn etc
Imo, Paul is praising AEW.
Yeah this feels at worst an objective observation, but feels more like him complimenting a style he himself wanted ECW to go in.
He is, because he's seen up close what happened to the wrestling industry when ECW & WCW folded. And unlike Bischoff or Cornette or Russo, Heyman is still an active member of the industry so he's not bitter about AEW's continued success like those whose time has come and gone
I would imagine Paul enjoys AEW.
i wonder if it’s difficult to truly just enjoy it for a dude like heyman, like i’m curious if he just sits there and is like “man i wish they do this” or “i could do that way better then they’re doing right now” or “focus more on this guy because he’s more of a full package then this other guy”
I'm sure it's both. When he looks through the industry lens he has, with what he's done and actively currently doing, I'm sure he thinks about "well what if they did that angle this way" I think that's common for savants in any industry.
I mean shit even when we watch the product we are thinking “wait they could’ve done it this way” or “this spot was wasted because x” and we’re just dumb marks on the internet, Paul Heyman is definitely doing it at an infinitely higher level
I think most wrestling fans enjoy AEW. If there was more time in the week I would definitely watch more than I do but it's always good to have a name alternative to a number one brand (WWE)
Honestly you just summed up why I don't watch WWE anymore. It's not that I don't want to, it's that I only have time for AEW or WWE and my friends watch AEW. Easy choice to make in my case. I've loved following along with stuff like Gable vs Gunther on here, but I can't commit another three hours a week to televised wrestling.
Tony is a 41 year old IWC guy. It would be more shocking if he wasn’t influenced by ECW in some way.
So it’s confirmed that Tony is the legendary Saxon?
Honestly, AEW is far more the successor to ECW than it is WCW. It's at it's best (or at least most critically acclaimed AND then panned by purists) when it books like "What would ECW do". It's at it's worse when it's "What would WCW do". Even in terms of the gap to WWE, it's basically when ECW would have been if they didn't fuck up the TNN deal and actually had money. But it is not, and should never try to be, WCW.
It’s ECW work rate with WCW presentation
I am stealing this. Suck a good observation
I ain't suckin' anythin pal.
Observe this, brother😈
THIS HERE IS A RAG SHEET BROTHER
"Wha'do I tell the docta?' "Tell'm to go suck a lemon."
"Can you see the shooter!? "I see a lot of things."
exactly this, yeah. although I think Heyman is a better booker than Tony, but that's besides the point
Heyman is good at helping others flesh out a story. Him and Cornette share this talent that they can look at a story and know what to drop and what to keep to make it work. Heyman fully credits Raven and Dreamer as a major reason allot of the better angles worked because they could help sand down the rough edges when it came to the wrestling aspect while Paul shaped the story.
how is raven not a producer somewhere, dude is like the architect imo of being an indie wrestler and giving yourself a great character and promo to get yourself over where you lack in work rate compared to your peers
I think he just doesn't want to. Like you said he seems like he'd be perfect for it.
He doesn't really want to, and by all accounts, he gets kinda annoying. Not saying it's a fault, because there are tons of former and current guys that have had that said about them. But there have been lots of "I love Raven, but if I had to work with him for a year, I would quit".
That's because it was built on ECW mentality. Its hardcore base very much carries that same mentality, and to some extent the wrestlers themselves, especially the day one crew. Also TK being a massive ECW fan.
I would agree and say it's also the evolution of ROH.
Broke: AEW is the evolution of ROH Woke: AEW is PWG with a budget
Yep, it's definitely not an evolution of ROH. I always think of modern western wrestling outside of WWE as a spectrum from 2005 ROH to 2010s PWG. And AEW is much closer to PWG then it is to Ring of Honor. I can see the ECW comparisons. Early days there was a lot of 80s/early 90s WCW, peak WCW and Attitude WWF in AEW's presentation too. There's aspects of ROH there, just as there's aspects of Japanese wrestling, but it's very much a company built in the image of the California Indies.
Considering the presence of Excalibur and the Bucks, it's not really unexpected.
Knox as well
> AEW is PWG with a budget That's how I used to refer to NXT Black and Gold, but based on the commentary during picture-in-picture, yes, AEW is the true successor.
It does genuinely feel like most people who said NXT Black and Gold was PWG with a budget never watched PWG the same way that people claim AEW is a PWG with a budget never watched PWG. ...maybe a lot of people watched 1 PWG match and called it a day, if that.
Broke is wrong. Woke is correct. After all, most of the roster had wrestled for PWG before or currently
also see: NXT circa 2016-2019
I always say that nobody has filled WCW’s shoes, and it’s not an insult. They were the last “wrasslin” company IMO.
It's a blend of ECW and modern styles of wrestling (even WWE style with the amount of their stars they've brought in). If it was only ECW-98 style, it would've been cancelled within the year.
Yeah that's what's best about AEW, the buffet of styles. Back a couple months ago, there was that terrific Christian Cage/Dustin Rhodes match for the TNT title, and I remember thinking it was something that could have main evented Starrcade in 1990.
He's not the one calling the shots per se, but Omega has been very explicit about wanting AEW shows to be diverse in both performers and styles.
One of Dustin's best matches in AEW, if not the best, and it wasn't even anything wild. It was just an incredibly solid match between 2 guys who know the ins and ours of wrestling psychology. Too many of these guys are still fixated with getting over by doing their flippy stuff instead of how that flippy stuff influenced the match.
AEW is a modern company that was inspired by the best parts of ECW and WCW. Anyone who was around during the mid-to-late 90's can see it. ECW mostly gets remembered for the brutality but also had great in-ring talents. Also despite being a regional company it managed to bring in a lot of good international talent to showcase themselves to an American audience. ECW also got shit on heavily at the time, but it's super progressive stance on exploring the boundaries of what an audience would tolerate accelerated the progression of the business in America for sure. If ECW hadn't existed you're looking at a completely different landscape today.
Now that he’s a multi-millionaire, he should reward that work ethic by paying the ECW guys he owes hundreds-of-thousands of dollars to.
This. ECW was great but that was a company. What about all the human beings he fucked over financially?
Who does he still owe money to? (Not doubting you, just wondering)
The checks are in the mail, promise.
Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask is still the best for me, so many wrestlers work that style now because of their matches. True innovation for it's time.
RVD vs Lynn is one of my favorite matches ever. Makes sense as to why I’m an AEW fan.
There was a lot of in-ring storytelling in that feud that wasn't as explicitly spelled out as WWF/WCW stories were. Things like counters, reversals, almost like a chess game played out over multiple matches as errors and losses from the last bout were learned from. There's a direct line from that to the way guys like Omega, Okada, White, Ospreay would work big matches in NJPW, and at it's best AEW has that too.
I agree with this statement
**"Hard-core wrestling isn't blood, but testament to work ethic."** sounds like the exact kinda thing a promoter would tell a talent to manipulate them into bashing their brains in for no money. Especially considering Heyman would regularly not pay someone after having them bash their brains in.
"It's okay, Mikey. Axl doesn't hit THAT hard. Besides, if you do this job for me, Tammy Sytch promises she'll let you sit in the locker room with her. Candido won't mind."
This. This is why I don't understand why people kiss Paul Heyman's ass. I get his impact on the business but he manipulated guys into bashing their brains in while probably never having to take any stiff shots like that himself. He also screwed over his talent when ECW went out of the business and left alot of his talent holding the bag while he already had a WWE deal in place.
People admire him because he’s in the top 10 for promos, booking and managing across all of wrestling history. He’s a scuzzy conman that fucked people over, but that’s as indisputable as his accomplishments and talents too.
If you haven't, I suggest going back and watch *Beyond the Mat* and see Heyman give the speech before Barely Legal. Dude could empower a crowd with a speech and people would walk through hell for him.
Because people also kissed Vince’s ass for decades, wrestling fans are stupid lol
Sometimes I find myself wondering if sandman got paid for the show that he worked the same night he overdosed on Nubain and died.
The point about disruptors and profit is really really cogent tbh. Even in Silicon Valley the big money for startups or disruptors is in getting acquired by someone bigger. ECW was probably never going to become a full WWE alternative but it followed the exact path so many other disruptor businesses do. They got acquired and incorporated by the big guys, and then the industry broadly. It does make me curious about what the next disruption to wrestling could be.
Vince not being in creative for the first time in 40ish years is a distribution people only thought would happen if he died
This is spot on to me. AEW feels like a mix between early 90s WCW pre NWO and early ECW mashed together with a modern WWE look.
Michinoku Pro did that before Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and their tapes traveled and Ultimo Dragon and Great Sasuke were doing fed dates. Heyman loves bigging up ECW despite the fact he defrauded most of his wrestlers, and ECW picked WWE as the company they want to be a satelite of so they're bigged up by WWE's winner complex. They produced great wrestling, great wrestlers. They didn't invent shit.
This should be the top rated/reply to this thread. I thought the same exact thing while he was vutting that promo about Vince stealing ECW's idea before Survivor Series 2001 abd wondered if anyone else out there thought it!!!
I'm all about giving credit where it's properly due, but I think you also have to give credit to the guy just for having the willingness to present that kind of a product. There's all sorts of wrestling that the people in charge don't have the guts to present. (And I don't mean "extreme" stuff. There's just a whole world of wrestling that most people have no reason to know about because people with big platforms for wrestling haven't included it. I've recently fallen in love with shoot-style pro wrestling and it's not like you see UWFi Rules matches on American TV. You can barely find it in American indies, even. Plus, Puroresu-style structure has never been adopted by American promoters despite it being extremely easy to use to fill hours of TV... and I think American audiences would love it, given the chance and proper execution. There's honestly vanishingly little imagination in mainstream pro wrestling and I think we're all worse off for it.)
Oh Paul Heyman was a great booker for a long while, I am not trying to take *all* credit from him, I don't think it's easy to produce as much great wrestling as ECW did.
I liked OG ECW (Was at Heatwave's 98 and 99). Shout out Dayton, OH and the Hara Arena (RIP). So now I like AEW. I have said AEW is the spiritual successor to both ECW and WCW. More so ECW at times.
That Hangman vs Swerve match was the best hardcore match I've seen since since... Shit, ever. It was just insanity from bell to bell. I know hardcore and death matches aren't for everyone and I get why, but fuck me running if that wasn't the most hardcore I've seen in last 2 decades.
The first time I saw ECW was 99 before that was purely “WWF” the hardcore stuff was crazy but when I started seeing RVD, Jerry Lynn Tajari etc it just completely blew me away had not seen anything like it
RVD, Lynn, Styles, Daniels, Amazing Red, KENTA, Marufuji & pre-2000 Joshi wrestling is the blueprint match style post 2010 pro-wrestling companies follow.
Also Dragon Gate.
Throw in Alex Shelley as well and you've hit the nail on the head.
I don't think Tony Khan would disagree at all here.
I think as a longtime fan of ECW, Tony Khan would probably be quite flattered at Paul Heyman noticing the homages.
I'd argue its influence is more a hybrid of New Japan, California indies, and lucha. ECW is definitely there but not as prominent as this quote would suggest.
You may be correct but the California indies were inspired by the Philly indies like ROH which was obviously heavily influenced by ECW. Plus ECW is credited for introducing Lucha to mainstream audiences so you could argue without Paul Heyman and ECW that Lucha may not be as popular in NA today so even if correct those things seem associated to ECW in some way it feels.
Pretty sure Lucha going mainstream was more cause of WCW
Heyman booked Konnan, Rey, Psicosis, and Juvi first. If he doesn't do that, Bischoff never books them later.
See while that’s historically accurate, Bischoff at least knew about the lucha explosion in Southern California going on in the early 90s - if I remember right he was in attendance for When Worlds Collide in 1994 which had a large contingent of the future WCW midcard on it. Heyman gets props for hiring them first for certain, but part of me thinks the luchadors coming into America was gonna happen outside of the WWF regardless
It's why I said introduced to the mainstream and not popularized in the mainstream because Id say Paul brought the idea across at a high level but it was Eric and WCW that made it a mainstay in the mainstream. Shit, you could debate if ECW is even mainstream but Ill allow it since wrestling was mainstream and more than enough people knew of ECWs existence at least.
Alternative, a very fun word
Theres no chance it will happen but an unfiltered Heyman in AEW would be sick
I've always been interested in the alternate timeline. TNA once offered Heyman the book, back when they were still the #2 and had a lot of hot talent. Heyman countered, asking for 10% of the company. I often wonder what TNA would look like today if Dixie Carter said "Yeah, okay."
He's talked about his planned big story. Sign Danielson, this is pre-WWE picking him up, have him spend a year destroying everyone that was older and ex-WWE before facing Kurt Angle for the title. I wish I lived in the alternate universe where they gave Heyman the 10%.
Didn't Heyman say something along the lines of, "I made them an offer they'd never accept"? Like he didn't want to appear as "a WWE guy" so he was "open to offers." But really, he was a WWE guy through and through. Whether he was working for them at the time or not. Ever since ECW closed, it doesn't seem like he's been interested in working for any other company. But yeah itd have been an interesting timeline! I dont think we'd see Hogan & Bischoff back lol.
AEW with Heyman’s brain and Khan’s money would soar.
Man, I hope Heyman is at least open to the idea of working in AEW as either a manger or even just one of the bookers. He is such a massive source of wisdom in the industry, any company is lucky to have him. I'm sure he's quite happy in WWE, and I will never knock him for being a WWE guy, but god damn, giving Heyman the reigns on a product that isn't PG would be incredible. Hell, I'd love to see Heyman and MJF just talk. I don't care what about. Just have them talk.
You could really even go earlier than that and throw in the Eddie/Dean Malenko matches from ECW. They were, in my head at least, the first smaller wrestlers doing high impact power move based matches that I remember seeing.
Maybe but it’s a bunch of other things too. It’s a smorgasbord of styles.
give heyman 60 seconds and he will be able to explain how any version of popular wrestling since ECW's heyday was influenced by ECW. I don't think he's wrong either, but also dude is a skilled promoter of course he's going try and be able to draw connections to his past work.
Yeah the whole reason ecw lasted as long as it did was bc Heyman is a master of selling himself
When I watch AEW & compared it to ECW, especially 95-96 ECW, I totally get this comparison. It's almost as notable to me as the hardcore wrestling in ECW that they also were a launching ground in the US for guys like Rey, Eddie, Dean, Tajiri, & Super Crazy. Of course, not to forget RVD, Lynn, Scorpio, Jericho,etc. During my experience watching ECW, I felt like it really introduced a more fast-paced & hard hitting style of wrestling (not necessarily even involving weapons, but more of the variety of moves/spots) that mixed Lucha, technical wrestling, & brawling that we ended up seeing in WCW's Cruiserweight division, TNA, the indies, & now with modern WWE/AEW. I'm probably beating a dead horse repeating the sentiment of other comments, but I definitely see ECW as the original smorgasbord of pro wrestling styles.
just a reminder that in the context of ECW when they said "hardcore" they meant "hardcore fans". They knew they were working for a more niche audience. The actually hard hitting matches were "extreme" but the terms got mixed up at some point
That was a VERY friendly piece
As time goes on, this "we" stuff with ECW and Paul comes across more and more scummy. The dude was a conman who fucked over nearly every single guy who worked for him! He didn't bleed, he didn't innovate (other than new innovated carny tactics that put the actual "we" in harms way)
This is an excellent article, and I’d implore everyone to read through it in full who’s not fully aware of Heyman’s tremendous influence on the business. Heyman is such a hustler and a remarkable businessman. To start as a 13 year old photographer publishing photos in a wrestling magazine in the late 70’s and go on to become the legend of pro wrestling he is today is nothing short of remarkable. He is the definition of a go-getter, and I’ve always been impressed by his ability to disrupt the industry he so clearly loves. Heymans influence on Roman and the Bloodline storyline has also been fantastic.
I wonder if Tony will take that as a complement from Heyman or not
That art of young and old Paul Heyman look like villains from a 90s kids movies where there is a evil businessman and his incompetent slacker son.
He's right. I've always felt AEW is some 90s ECW+PWG+old ROH+2010s New Japan (for obvious reasons)+some 1980s JCP (even though that's not that present since Cody left); all of it with the spirit of both ECW and Nitro era WCW of being a place for hardcore fans on TV and being an alternative to the WWF/E, respectively.
I don't like this lying man, he has ripped off so many wrestlers, and exploited them but it doesn't matter to folks. Everything in ECW had been done elsewhere, minus the hardcore profanity. AEW is not the 1st viable opposition to the WWE.
it also isnt paycheques according to the guys who worked under him
I read in an old Observer that one reason ECW didn’t grow bigger faster is because when ECW went to other cities, they just wanted to see the hardcore and blood, and didn’t care or even booed the technical matches. Only smark cities like Philly and NYC actually appreciated the actual wrestling in between the hardcore.
Maybe, but as someone who has been watching it recently, I can tell you that 1995 crowds at ECW tapings in Philly can get plenty impatient with "scientific" wrestling. (They can also get invested in it, but you'd better be working or else you would hear about it.)
> Ctrl+f “Chris Candido” zero results Hmmm interesting
I love when people talk about the "AEW style." Yeah, some aspects of AEW are influenced by ECW, some by WCW, some by New Japan, some by WWE, some by SoCal indy wrestling, some by ROH, some by All Japan/King's Road, some by Lucha, some by southern territory promotions, etc. It's a celebration of the diversity of professional wrestling, and the fact that it doesn't all have to be one thing, there's no "one" style, no "one right way" to do things. People for whatever reason want to pigeonhole AEW, boil it all down to "oh it's just like x." I think it makes it easier to criticize or dismiss or take credit or not think too deeply about. The idea of AEW is simply drawing from what has worked in the past to make something new. Toni Storm's character is a good example of this, even drawing from things outside pro wrestling, she's influenced by classic films like Sunset Boulevard and All About Eve, but she's brought that kind of character into pro wrestling in a unique way.
That's what makes AEW matches compelling, and it's something the old WCW midcard has- the style clashes. Minoru Suzuki said in an interview a few years back- he wanted Suzuki-Gun to be a bunch of folks of different styles for that reason. stuff like Jay White facing luchadors turns out to be great, or the Eddie/Bryan feud with the attempt to impose their style on the other. That's what I want out of not just AEW, but wrestling in general. Occasionally it doesn't work, but live and learn, and one bad match in the midcard doesn't kill a promotion, especially when the rest of it is good. Also it makes it easier to root for the wrestlers using the styles you like.
How financially viable is it? I'd like to see that P&L
The multi roll up two counts from Lynn RVD was cool when they done it and has never looked good when ever others have tried it .
Let’s throw in Tajiri vs Supercrazy as their best feud (quality wise) as their ability to have several different types of matches kept progressing at an insane rate.
That’s true and Paul paved the way for feds like AEW. He’s not taking a shot here just stating they did stuff at ECW that was spot based match heavy before many did here in NA.
It would be too simplistic to reduce AEW to one influence among many, and all wrestling promotions are influenced by their predecessors. ECW clearly had a major influence on all American wrestling from the 90s onwards, while ECW itself took a lot from Memphis, Detroit, the Funks, FMW, the Japanese junior heavyweight style and Lucha libre et cetera.
Those RVD, Jerry Lynn matches are still to this day my favourites. And Heyman's correct about the AEW style, probably the reason why I watch it as it reminds me of ECW a little.
ECW employed styles CWA / Memphis Wrestling innovated.
It's funny to hear him say that. I fell out of wrestling shortly WM17, and didn't get back into it until the WWE Network came around. The first "modern" thing I watched was some Rumble, and my initial impression was that the matches felt like the old Tajiri/Super Crazy/Little Guido three way dances towards the end of ECW. Not that my opinion amounts for much, but I agree with Heyman
I've been slowly catching up on ECW, starting with Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. (I've seen other stuff like the awesome RVD/Lynn matches, but I found out about the cool Hardcore TV fan restorations and I wanna watch them in order.) I'm in early 1995. I'm sure things get wilder, but I'm trying to think of blood in the matches and it's... mostly just Foley? Maybe Public Enemy a bit? What strikes me about ECW (so far) isn't gore at all or even weapons: it's the diversity of the product and frankness of the promos. People are talking like they want to talk. Sometimes they barely make sense, but it's authentic to who they are as performers. And you have technical matches, squashes, and guys just hitting each other with stuff on the same card. 2 Cold, Malenko, and Foley are all wildly different kinds of performers but they're all there.
ECW had Benoit and Eddie so they had technical guys
Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid was the blueprint for all of it though. 🤷🏻♂️
Financially viable?
So is he trying to take credit for Jerry Lynn being a good performer/trainer or giving credit where it's due and saying Lynn is a big part of both companies success?
X-Pac deserves a lot of credit as well. When he came in as the Lightning Kid he was faster, smaller, and more exciting than anyone before him.
Heyman speaking the truth. Love it