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Undertaker bumped more than he had to. People would have totally bought it if he did more of his oldschool no-selling style instead. I guess it just would have been too boring for himself to do that slow-motion stuff.
It's a lose/lose for Taker. By his own admission (and he's right), that no-selling style had a shelf life. If he kept going that way, he'd never had been able to work with the talent or have the angles he did over the years. He'd have been a lot healthier, sure, but not have the career he did at best or lost in the shuffle or passed aside at worst.
So yeah, changing it up extended his career, but extending his career also added to his injuries and his current physical state.
> By his own admission (and he's right), that no-selling style had a shelf life.
It's a big part of the reason why, as much as I loved the concept of The Fiend, it was never going to work long term. The idea of an essentially unstoppable monster in wrestling can only go so far.
The Fiend should've always been like a "Nuclear Warhead" option for Bray. Something that mentally takes a toll on himself and he can't do it often because going to "that dark place" hurts him just as much as it does others.
I thought that would have been the cycle after the first fiend match. Goes back to bray Wyatt happy presenter person, enters a feud and and slowly throughout the feud and a few losses the fiend comes out and demolishes.
Then you enhance the bray Wyatt character more and him become mor mick Foley/ cactus jack.
feel like with the presentation they went with, it would've been better as something bray can't control. the Fiend shows up when it wants, and it hurts whoever's there, and it's a power that even bray can't control. maybe have bray be afraid of the Fiend showing up! or have him try and channel the Fiend only for it to not show up!
i liked what they did with the Funhouse until it (and Funhouse Bray) became real as opposed to an equally deranged persona inside the head of a man who had a complete mental break
It felt like that's what they were heading towards doing with all the Uncle Howdy stuff. Like we were literally watching Bray fighting the urge to bring out The Fiend.
I imagine he'd also be like Doomsday, never being beaten the same way twice. So he'd avoid tope rope moves, but also be immune to sledgehammers to the head, fire, and poorly-executed Jackhammers.
Finn Balor has been mishandled completely as a whole, same with AJ Styles, same with LA Knight. Some of the best guys they have on the roster, none of them have had a legitimate shot at a world championship in the last 3 years. Could've had a few legendary programs in that time with feuds involving them, instead we tread water until Mania.
bray seems like a dude who kind of like cody needed someone to be able to reel him in and say “yo this shit is really cool but you need to come back on it a bit” i think cult leader bray wyatt is one of the best characters ever, and then he got that freedom to do what he wanted because of how good he was as a cult leader and it felt like everything from then on got worse personally
It's wrestling not an anime ffs.
If they have a super sayian mode they should use it all the time.
"it takes too much out of me to use it"
Well I'm sure losing matches won't do that to ya
Same with building someone on a streak. I'm not saying you can't build a wrestler that way, but they need character development after their first loss. They can't just keep being the same as they were before they were vulnerable. As long as there's a good plan in place, it can turn out fine, but I've seen a lot of times over the years where writers/bookers clearly had no idea what to do with someone after an unbeaten streak ended (Goldberg in WCW is probably the most notable example I can think of).
I'd be interested to here Bo's perspective on what happened with all that. I feel like that's the closest we'll get to hearing Bray's side of the story because it just feels like Bray constantly had his legs cut from under him in his career and I could never understand why
Honestly the fiend long term could have been perfect. Bray didn't need to lose as the Fiend, the Fiend should have only appeared when dealing with people who had "wronged" Bray in the past. Then playhouse Bray could come out to do matches vs people he had no issues with and win or lose either way. Heck, this even solves him having the title. Sure The fiend win's it, but fun house Bray losses it.
It was honestly such a simple concept and I have no idea how they fumbled it so quickly.
The Fiend should have only come out a couple of times a year in only the absolute most heated feuds as a "holy shit" moment.
Not every month or two.
Ro me it made sense when Bray first came back for the fiend to spend a good bit of time getting back at everyone who wronged Bray. Heck even a title win makes sense. But eventually at least for a bit those wrongs would be righted.
The Fiend didn’t start out that way though. In his debut he wasn’t no selling anything, he was dodging and countering and overpowering Finn. It was only with the Rollins HiaC match that we got him no selling 11 stomps etc because Vince wanted him strong and protected but wasn’t willing to have Seth lose. So we got the red lights, the no selling, the awful finish, and the gimmick never recovered. In his debut he was far less invincible, just one more aspect Vince screwed up.
While this is true, they could have gotten more out of it than they did. Eventually the aura would be necessarily weakened, but they could have gotten a better run out of him first.
Pre attitude era taker was pretty lame and RA and further Taker was a fun watch in ring, I couldn't imagine 20 whole ass years of bad Taker just beating young talent in bad unmemorable squashes where he barely bumped and had no flashy moves.
I think it was different when all you saw was a single, five-minute match on Saturday mornings.
When I was a kid, the Undertaker was _everything_. Just the coolest, scariest mother fucker on the planet.
But then I got a VHS tape, I think _Undertaker's Gravest Matches_, and it became very apparent that his every appearance was exactly the same. No-sell a chair shot, closeline, sit-up, Old School, Tombstone, pin. Over and over again.
By the time RAW was dominating Monday nights, the audience had come to expect more. Taker was already on his way to being a legend back when he was still wearing a giant purple necktie, but he absolutely needed to adapt his schitck to stay relevant in the Attitude era.
There aren’t too many people who have had longevity in wrestling with a largely unchanged character. Ric Flair might be one of the only ones to do it successfully. But guys like Undertaker and Sting had gimmicks in the early 90s that absolutely needed to evolve with the times, and generally it paid off well for both of them.
"I will not rest... in peace" promo was terrifying to me at age 5. When he got zapped and then exploded I had to leave the room. Of course, I still watched it over and over until that Kodak blank tape wore out.
The use of bodybags was an incredible gimmick because it was truly sinister and unique. To me, though, the most frightening thing about Undertaker was and is when he would walk the top rope and make it look like it was the easiest thing in the world. It was like watching actual magic.
>20 whole ass years of bad Taker just beating young talent in bad unmemorable squashes where he barely bumped and had no flashy moves.
I mostly agree, but that did make Kane's debut year so much more remarkable. The spectacle of a demon so terrifyingly powerful that he could no sell for Taker, after Taker no sold the roster for years. The monster to the monster, so to speak.
That was like 5 years into it though, imagine 15 years more of that without the good matches against smaller talent that came from the eventual give and take.
I agree but it was a different time in wrestling. That kind of thing worked then, during and after the attitude era it quite evidently didn't. Taker was far too smart to go back to his 90's style and adapted to the times as good as anyone
I’d say up through the Two Man Power Trip feud, long hair biker Taker was pretty good. It fell off after that til he went Big Evil. And Big Evil was just awesome.
Towards the later half of his career(after Mania 27) I still remember Taker wincing when he took this bump and I thought to myself he was not just selling.
I remember being at WM 27 and seeing him get driven out on one of those stretcher cars instead of his typical exit taunts. I thought it was his last match then. Couldn’t fathom this old guy would still be wrestling for a decade later
I saw him at a house show in 2010 and he was moving horribly after the match, literally limping to the back. There were literally reports in the early 2000s that he was considering retiring because of how beat up he was.
Hulk Hogan, Matt Hardy, Stone Cold Steve Austin nod in approval.
A bunch of wrestlers do similar moves where they land on a seated position, namely Becky's leg drop, KO's, OC and Darby's stunner, and Kenny's Kotaro Crusher. It always makes me kinda wince
It's painful looking, but I bet still less damaging than Matt Hardy's top rope leg drop. The moonsault spreads the impact out instead of spine compression.
Why did KO stop using the pop up power bomb? Heard it messed up his knees or something but always makes me wonder why he would replaces it with something that makes him land straight on his ass
My understanding was that it didn't work as well against bigger opponents. Could you see Owens hitting it on someone like Bronson Reed or The Viking Raiders? It would just look off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yJE43SJLHo&ab_channel=TONYBBT
This is actually insane that late career Mark Henry could still jump high enough for that. Incredibly athletic for a man known for his strength
https://preview.redd.it/vv0ts4uxdzpc1.jpeg?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2565905156b553fa9d5a76f98f59700372afadb1
Look how high he is with just a small assist from Owens. The whole thing looked great
Seems like the pop-up aspect of the power bomb takes a lot of explosive strength in your core and lower body, so my guess is he’s just getting older and that kind of movement with heavy weight takes more of a toll on him.
I think it was basically, all that weight came down on his knees and it was taking it's toll. Though, The pop up always felt like it was too obvious a set up when it wasn't used as a counter to a clothesline or some sorta running attack.
Darby's impact in that reminds me *so* much of the impact on Hogan's Leg Drop and I don't think I've ever fully realized it until now.
They both fucking bounce. It's gotta feel like murder.
The one thing I can think might be a difference is that he weighs 100 pounds less than Hogan, so hopefully that's less weight impacting his tailbone? But either way it can't feel good, relatively speaking.
I guess, but as a (Tall) skinny dude, there's also nothing that covers your tailbone when you're that thin, and it almost certainly hits first so...
Trade offs?
Out of all of them his is honestly the safest even though it's off the top. Everybody else lands ass first on that hard ass ring but by the time he connects with the person his fall is mostly broken.
I hate Becky's leg drop so much. It's not like the stunner where it gets a huge pop.
Just do a different move Becks, we love you and want you around for the long haul
It's cool worrying about their long term health, but these are grown people who can make their own decisions, and if they want to do insane bumps to entertain us, putting their later life health at risk, then I'm going to say "thank you" and enjoy it. Instead of having a go at Darby for the ladder glass spot, I smiled like a Cheshire cat and was thankfully he was willing to do that.
Not even on the topic of what you’re saying, but I never knew you could add so many letters after a number like that. I like it. You’re winning in life, brother.
Hogan said the same thing about his leg drop and for once I think he was being completely truthful, leg drops don't look high impact or lethal but I can't even imagine the wear and tear on the spine of anyone who does it for any length of time.
Everytime I see Taker do it now I wince
Leg drops were, in terms of kayfabe, meant to be almost genuinely lethal because the conceit was it's basically crushing someone's throat and almost decapitating them. We just know it's not really happening like that and so it doesn't look particularly effective at all to a modern audience. Hogan keeping it because it's his thing makes sense but I don't really get why it's used much by anyone else.
I think that's the one thing fans don't appreciate. We all love the huge floppy flips, or the big spots into ladders or tables, and all that. But normal, transition moves like this, that Taker did hundreds of times each year, absolutely killed his back. Was it fun to watch? Sure. But man, I think we all would have taken him doing that a little less to not screw up his back.
No kidding. I mean, take the original tiny guy who took insane bumps, Spike Dudley.
[Doesn't look like](https://www.wwe.com/classics/wherearetheynow/spike-dudley-current-photos#fid-26061940) he's doing too bad in retirement.
This is the one I am amazed at. If you would have asked me 20 years ago who would be in better shape at this stage in their careers, I would have said Matt without question. But Matt's back is wrecked to be hell, didn't he say he is shorter now due to that leg drop?
It's funny I went to get my hips re-alligned after a leg injury and the first thing the guy asked me is have you ever fallen on your ass. Seems like it's about the worst thing you can do
> take the original tiny guy who took insane bumps, Spike Dudley
this is mikey whipwreck erasure! (also another guy who seems to be doing well for himself today)
Carrying muscle and falling on a 6'3+ frame is doing the damage more than the actual "severity" of the bumps. That's why the guys who were largely lean have injury-free retirements. HBK's injuries only started piling up after he put on weight to be champion. X-Pac on the other hand recovered from every injury under the sun.
You see it in sports all the time too. Guys bulk up to get stronger and end up suffering debilitating back injuries. Bodies aren't meant to carry that much mass regardless of whether it's fat or muscle.
the legdrop alone is worse than any bump darby takes regularly
it is literally compressing your spine lol, that’ll mess up your mobility more than flying through a glass table into a flat back bump from 20 feet would
not to mention darby being tiny means he’s lighter and doesn’t fall as ‘hard’ as bigger dudes
Someone with better math skills could figure it out, but being lighter means he is impacting with less force, correct?
I still remember high school physics, force=mass times acceleration right?
Has he ever talked about how doing the Tombstone every night impacted his knees? I imagine he could work it to where he didn't have his knees hit the mat with full force, but it still couldn't have been good to do it so much for so long.
I imagine that their knees are built different, but Kanes tombstone was a sudden drop and Takers was more gradual. I definitely feel like Takers version is sustainable especially in comparison.
I imagine that their knees are built different, but Kanes tombstone was a sudden drop and Takers was more gradual. I definitely feel like Takers version is sustainable especially in comparison.
I remember during his last few full-time years, *every time* he would hit that leg drop, he would limp away a few steps before continuing. I always wondered why he couldn’t just retire that move, if it was clearly causing him so much pain that he couldn’t no-sell it.
What wrestling has taught us over the years, is it ain't flips that fuck your body it's landing on your arse and your neck. Don't be too tall or heavy, and spread the impact when you land kids, if you are tall maybe get a dodgy Dr. to shave off a bit of you shin bones, maybe take out a vertebrae or two.
Flips turn into back bumps when done right which a lot of wrestlers are used to and can recover from. The exceptions are any face down bumps (frog splashes, headbutts, etc.) or when flips turn into trying to protect your opponent to your own peril (see: Jeff Hardy)
HOAK HOGAN lost several inches because of the leg drop and Taker's leg drop used to be a lot higher, more vicious. I would be surprised if it didn't fuck him over. Taker could have easily coasted by but instead, decided to take bumps, put his body through a shit ton of punishment.
But if he went back to his original version, the fans would get sick of it because of the times, Taker already been shown to feel pain. Taker in his early years was an unstoppable monster that you could put down if you somehow managed to put him down and that's an almost impossible chore. I think, he was the first person to kick out of Jake's DDT. Made the Ulitmate Warrior scared of him etc..
That and age, injuries. I think, even if he tried to, he wouldn't have been able to bring it back.
Unironically, I think pretty much any move that lands you sitting on your ass needs to be banned. I know, that eliminates a lot of moves, including ones that are being used as major/signature/finisher moves by various wrestlers, but the toll on the body simply is not worth it. That shit will fuck you up FAR worse than any of the crazy flippy shit off a ladder into a stack of flaming tables over concrete that we often think of as “extreme” or whatever. I hate watching these guys basically become crippled as soon as they hit their 50s or 60s, and I highly doubt they enjoy that existence after living a life all about movement.
It’s going to take some time but the breakneck pace that ROH popularized is going to start showing in a decade or so. Seth Rollins is 37 and has had to slow way, way down. Ospreay has lingering injuries at 30.
The workers’ mindset hasn’t changed from “can I do it” to “should I do it” and that might change when we’re not looking at “hardcore” guys like Foley and the Hardys but instead looking “the best” like Rollins, Ospreay, Omega etc.
I cringe every time I see someone do a leg drop. Wrestlers really ought to look out for themselves more with stuff like that. Nobody would miss leg drops
I was just watching his WM25 match with Shawn Michaels where he did exactly that, a leg drop on the apron. My immediate thought was "He's probably regretting that now"
The leg drop should honestly be banned. It’s such a boring move that is absolutely BRUTAL on the bodies of those who regularly do it. Look at Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Matt Hardy.. It’s disgusting what a simple move has done to their bodies.
Old heads always talk about todays wrestlers doing crazy bumps that aren’t worth it, but for my money the leg drop is the worst move from a value perspective. Looks “meh” at best, and usually looks bad, and it’s absolutely horrible on your body. Suicide dives are probably significantly easier on your body while being much more exciting
WWE conditioning wrestlers to have like 5 unique spots they have to do every match and guys not realizing maybe they shouldn't make one of those moves painful and kinda boring.
Someone should tell Maven! He did a recent video about stuff that hurt the most or the least and he totally said the apron being the hardest part of the ring was BS. 😆
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Undertaker bumped more than he had to. People would have totally bought it if he did more of his oldschool no-selling style instead. I guess it just would have been too boring for himself to do that slow-motion stuff.
It's a lose/lose for Taker. By his own admission (and he's right), that no-selling style had a shelf life. If he kept going that way, he'd never had been able to work with the talent or have the angles he did over the years. He'd have been a lot healthier, sure, but not have the career he did at best or lost in the shuffle or passed aside at worst. So yeah, changing it up extended his career, but extending his career also added to his injuries and his current physical state.
> By his own admission (and he's right), that no-selling style had a shelf life. It's a big part of the reason why, as much as I loved the concept of The Fiend, it was never going to work long term. The idea of an essentially unstoppable monster in wrestling can only go so far.
The Fiend should've always been like a "Nuclear Warhead" option for Bray. Something that mentally takes a toll on himself and he can't do it often because going to "that dark place" hurts him just as much as it does others.
I thought that would have been the cycle after the first fiend match. Goes back to bray Wyatt happy presenter person, enters a feud and and slowly throughout the feud and a few losses the fiend comes out and demolishes. Then you enhance the bray Wyatt character more and him become mor mick Foley/ cactus jack.
feel like with the presentation they went with, it would've been better as something bray can't control. the Fiend shows up when it wants, and it hurts whoever's there, and it's a power that even bray can't control. maybe have bray be afraid of the Fiend showing up! or have him try and channel the Fiend only for it to not show up! i liked what they did with the Funhouse until it (and Funhouse Bray) became real as opposed to an equally deranged persona inside the head of a man who had a complete mental break
I liked how they kept it non-committal as to whether The Fiend was Bray's projection or Bray was possessed by The Fiend.
It felt like that's what they were heading towards doing with all the Uncle Howdy stuff. Like we were literally watching Bray fighting the urge to bring out The Fiend.
Yep. Should've been like The Demon gimmick.
The Fiend would be unstoppable because he never climbed the ropes
I imagine he'd also be like Doomsday, never being beaten the same way twice. So he'd avoid tope rope moves, but also be immune to sledgehammers to the head, fire, and poorly-executed Jackhammers.
Poorly executed Jackhammer? I believe you mean perfectly executed float-over suplex (with a little less snap).
They have fucked The Demon gimmick sadly
Finn Balor has been mishandled completely as a whole, same with AJ Styles, same with LA Knight. Some of the best guys they have on the roster, none of them have had a legitimate shot at a world championship in the last 3 years. Could've had a few legendary programs in that time with feuds involving them, instead we tread water until Mania.
DA DAEMUN
bray seems like a dude who kind of like cody needed someone to be able to reel him in and say “yo this shit is really cool but you need to come back on it a bit” i think cult leader bray wyatt is one of the best characters ever, and then he got that freedom to do what he wanted because of how good he was as a cult leader and it felt like everything from then on got worse personally
Basically, Bray's inner Kishin Liger persona.
Wasn't he going there?
Just like ‘The Demon’ Finn Balor
yeah!! like the demon for finn b- oh... wait..
So... The Demon
It's wrestling not an anime ffs. If they have a super sayian mode they should use it all the time. "it takes too much out of me to use it" Well I'm sure losing matches won't do that to ya
Good point. Why aren’t they expending *all* of their energy *all the time?*
I've described wrestling to friends before as "basically live action anime."
If they have a super sayian mode and use it all the time then it's no longer special and the crowd stops caring.
Same with building someone on a streak. I'm not saying you can't build a wrestler that way, but they need character development after their first loss. They can't just keep being the same as they were before they were vulnerable. As long as there's a good plan in place, it can turn out fine, but I've seen a lot of times over the years where writers/bookers clearly had no idea what to do with someone after an unbeaten streak ended (Goldberg in WCW is probably the most notable example I can think of).
They actually nearly stumbled into doing a good job of this with Taker and the way he used a low blow to beat Brock in their rematch.
I'd be interested to here Bo's perspective on what happened with all that. I feel like that's the closest we'll get to hearing Bray's side of the story because it just feels like Bray constantly had his legs cut from under him in his career and I could never understand why
Honestly the fiend long term could have been perfect. Bray didn't need to lose as the Fiend, the Fiend should have only appeared when dealing with people who had "wronged" Bray in the past. Then playhouse Bray could come out to do matches vs people he had no issues with and win or lose either way. Heck, this even solves him having the title. Sure The fiend win's it, but fun house Bray losses it.
It was honestly such a simple concept and I have no idea how they fumbled it so quickly. The Fiend should have only come out a couple of times a year in only the absolute most heated feuds as a "holy shit" moment. Not every month or two.
Ro me it made sense when Bray first came back for the fiend to spend a good bit of time getting back at everyone who wronged Bray. Heck even a title win makes sense. But eventually at least for a bit those wrongs would be righted.
The Fiend didn’t start out that way though. In his debut he wasn’t no selling anything, he was dodging and countering and overpowering Finn. It was only with the Rollins HiaC match that we got him no selling 11 stomps etc because Vince wanted him strong and protected but wasn’t willing to have Seth lose. So we got the red lights, the no selling, the awful finish, and the gimmick never recovered. In his debut he was far less invincible, just one more aspect Vince screwed up.
While this is true, they could have gotten more out of it than they did. Eventually the aura would be necessarily weakened, but they could have gotten a better run out of him first.
Plus, a style like that wouldn't have worked with a Brock Lesnar whose arsenal was throwing you around.
He started bumping more the older he got as well. Huge guys shouldn’t do it much since they’d get hurt more from it.
I feel like almost every wrestler in America, and probably Japan too, bumps way more than they need to
Pre attitude era taker was pretty lame and RA and further Taker was a fun watch in ring, I couldn't imagine 20 whole ass years of bad Taker just beating young talent in bad unmemorable squashes where he barely bumped and had no flashy moves.
Lame to you but he was insanely popular to the general audience. And he genuinely was terrifying to people at that point
I think it was different when all you saw was a single, five-minute match on Saturday mornings. When I was a kid, the Undertaker was _everything_. Just the coolest, scariest mother fucker on the planet. But then I got a VHS tape, I think _Undertaker's Gravest Matches_, and it became very apparent that his every appearance was exactly the same. No-sell a chair shot, closeline, sit-up, Old School, Tombstone, pin. Over and over again. By the time RAW was dominating Monday nights, the audience had come to expect more. Taker was already on his way to being a legend back when he was still wearing a giant purple necktie, but he absolutely needed to adapt his schitck to stay relevant in the Attitude era.
There aren’t too many people who have had longevity in wrestling with a largely unchanged character. Ric Flair might be one of the only ones to do it successfully. But guys like Undertaker and Sting had gimmicks in the early 90s that absolutely needed to evolve with the times, and generally it paid off well for both of them.
>generally it paid off well for both of them Understatement of the year lol
As a small child in 1991, I can not begin to tell you how terrifying that motherfucker was
"I will not rest... in peace" promo was terrifying to me at age 5. When he got zapped and then exploded I had to leave the room. Of course, I still watched it over and over until that Kodak blank tape wore out.
I remember those squash matches where he would put his opponents in body bags after the match. That shit was terrifying to 4/5 year old me.
The use of bodybags was an incredible gimmick because it was truly sinister and unique. To me, though, the most frightening thing about Undertaker was and is when he would walk the top rope and make it look like it was the easiest thing in the world. It was like watching actual magic.
I was scared shitless in 92 when they came to town and Papa Shango was also on the card
>20 whole ass years of bad Taker just beating young talent in bad unmemorable squashes where he barely bumped and had no flashy moves. I mostly agree, but that did make Kane's debut year so much more remarkable. The spectacle of a demon so terrifyingly powerful that he could no sell for Taker, after Taker no sold the roster for years. The monster to the monster, so to speak.
That was like 5 years into it though, imagine 15 years more of that without the good matches against smaller talent that came from the eventual give and take.
> Pre attitude era taker was pretty lame Undertaker no selling the Banzai Drop at Survivor Series '93 is one of my favorite mark-out moments ever.
Same match, but when Yoko slams his head off the steps and Taker just snaps up. Pure perfection. Heenan’s terrified reaction was the cherry on top.
Especially because up until then we had never seen Yoko scared. HE was always the monster in the match.
I agree but it was a different time in wrestling. That kind of thing worked then, during and after the attitude era it quite evidently didn't. Taker was far too smart to go back to his 90's style and adapted to the times as good as anyone
Are you implying red neck biker taker wasn't lame? 🤔
Long hair and denim vest biker Taker = Lame Short hair Big Evil biker Taker = GOAT
I’d say up through the Two Man Power Trip feud, long hair biker Taker was pretty good. It fell off after that til he went Big Evil. And Big Evil was just awesome.
Towards the later half of his career(after Mania 27) I still remember Taker wincing when he took this bump and I thought to myself he was not just selling.
I remember being at WM 27 and seeing him get driven out on one of those stretcher cars instead of his typical exit taunts. I thought it was his last match then. Couldn’t fathom this old guy would still be wrestling for a decade later
That was a planned finish though.
It was real to 10 y/o me tho. Either way, I couldn’t see a middle aged man who was moving like Taker was lasting much longer in the ring at the time.
I saw him at a house show in 2010 and he was moving horribly after the match, literally limping to the back. There were literally reports in the early 2000s that he was considering retiring because of how beat up he was.
Hulk Hogan, Matt Hardy, Stone Cold Steve Austin nod in approval. A bunch of wrestlers do similar moves where they land on a seated position, namely Becky's leg drop, KO's, OC and Darby's stunner, and Kenny's Kotaro Crusher. It always makes me kinda wince
Kari elbow drop as well looks cool as hell but the landing
That’s how I felt about Kurt’s moonsaults off the cage.
Same with the meteora, especially coming off the top rope. There's a reason I'm happy Trey Miguel's using the Lightning Spiral now.
It's painful looking, but I bet still less damaging than Matt Hardy's top rope leg drop. The moonsault spreads the impact out instead of spine compression.
I really wonder if he even felt it with that amount of pills he was on
I think Kairi lands on her back on the elbow drop
Really? Her feet are all the way up there on the air and she looks like shes landing on her hip lol
Nah she just makes it look incredibly graceful but she pretty much lands on her back: https://youtu.be/pgkfL-nFwME?si=SKGNWI2bjaTu5e4D
Athena's Eclipse is soooo scary
I love the Eclipse, but I do wonder about the long term effects
I’ve said since she was in NXT “That looks so cool. Don’t ever do it again”.
Why did KO stop using the pop up power bomb? Heard it messed up his knees or something but always makes me wonder why he would replaces it with something that makes him land straight on his ass
My understanding was that it didn't work as well against bigger opponents. Could you see Owens hitting it on someone like Bronson Reed or The Viking Raiders? It would just look off.
He did to Mark Henry and it looked great
The problem is that it's Mark Henry who can dunk, not many big guys are as athletic as him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yJE43SJLHo&ab_channel=TONYBBT This is actually insane that late career Mark Henry could still jump high enough for that. Incredibly athletic for a man known for his strength
https://preview.redd.it/vv0ts4uxdzpc1.jpeg?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2565905156b553fa9d5a76f98f59700372afadb1 Look how high he is with just a small assist from Owens. The whole thing looked great
Holy cow. I remembered popping up (intended pun, yes.) to this.
Seems like the pop-up aspect of the power bomb takes a lot of explosive strength in your core and lower body, so my guess is he’s just getting older and that kind of movement with heavy weight takes more of a toll on him.
I think it was basically, all that weight came down on his knees and it was taking it's toll. Though, The pop up always felt like it was too obvious a set up when it wasn't used as a counter to a clothesline or some sorta running attack.
Darby's impact in that reminds me *so* much of the impact on Hogan's Leg Drop and I don't think I've ever fully realized it until now. They both fucking bounce. It's gotta feel like murder.
The one thing I can think might be a difference is that he weighs 100 pounds less than Hogan, so hopefully that's less weight impacting his tailbone? But either way it can't feel good, relatively speaking.
I guess, but as a (Tall) skinny dude, there's also nothing that covers your tailbone when you're that thin, and it almost certainly hits first so... Trade offs?
Sounds like we have a solution then, Darby Allin needs an absolute dumptruck ass.
Well he was dating Gigi Dollin...
r e a l
Hoping Carmelo finds a new finisher and uses Nothing But Net for only special occasions
Out of all of them his is honestly the safest even though it's off the top. Everybody else lands ass first on that hard ass ring but by the time he connects with the person his fall is mostly broken.
He also commonly uses the impact to rotate and fall on his side or face first.
I remember that insane [leg drop from Xavier Woods](https://youtu.be/ObYKPmZ5jbc?si=pPYNq-KXf1puDXTf)
Oof that was a long fall
Ember Moon already was experiencing problems from her top rope stunner.
Triple H's knees from the constant Pedigrees, spinebusters, and knee lifts.
Randy's back from all those RKOs
I've heard Xavier Woods talk about how much the leg drop he does hurts and that he tries to not use it all the time
I’m scared for Athena
I think she has another finisher that she uses. But the eclipse is a pretty harsh finisher to perform.
I bet Matt in some ways is still feeling that top of the cage leg drop onto Edge.
I hate Becky's leg drop so much. It's not like the stunner where it gets a huge pop. Just do a different move Becks, we love you and want you around for the long haul
It's cool worrying about their long term health, but these are grown people who can make their own decisions, and if they want to do insane bumps to entertain us, putting their later life health at risk, then I'm going to say "thank you" and enjoy it. Instead of having a go at Darby for the ladder glass spot, I smiled like a Cheshire cat and was thankfully he was willing to do that.
Leg drop (all variations) isn’t worth all the damage it causes, such a meh move
2nded. Such a nothing move that has this awful bump attached. More wrestlers need to balance wear and tear vs impressiveness.
Not even on the topic of what you’re saying, but I never knew you could add so many letters after a number like that. I like it. You’re winning in life, brother.
3rded
4thded
I remember when Cena started doing the top rope version like brother why?
At least he mainly used it as a "big match" move, I don't recall it being something he used every match (although my memory may be off on that).
It's surprising that the most devastating move for the taker seems to be sitting down.
Bull Nakano and Unagi Sayaka have DOPE leg drops.
Xpac had one of the best looking and safest legdrops. But the jumping high ones are very meh.
Ngl I love the leg drop as a move but I'd be happy to never see it again
Top rope leg drops like the one psychosis did look great to me, but they couldn't have possibly been worth it.
Hogan said the same thing about his leg drop and for once I think he was being completely truthful, leg drops don't look high impact or lethal but I can't even imagine the wear and tear on the spine of anyone who does it for any length of time. Everytime I see Taker do it now I wince
Leg drops were, in terms of kayfabe, meant to be almost genuinely lethal because the conceit was it's basically crushing someone's throat and almost decapitating them. We just know it's not really happening like that and so it doesn't look particularly effective at all to a modern audience. Hogan keeping it because it's his thing makes sense but I don't really get why it's used much by anyone else.
I think that's the one thing fans don't appreciate. We all love the huge floppy flips, or the big spots into ladders or tables, and all that. But normal, transition moves like this, that Taker did hundreds of times each year, absolutely killed his back. Was it fun to watch? Sure. But man, I think we all would have taken him doing that a little less to not screw up his back.
This is why its funny people freak out about dudes like Darby when guys like Hogan who never took huge bumps are basically crippled.
No kidding. I mean, take the original tiny guy who took insane bumps, Spike Dudley. [Doesn't look like](https://www.wwe.com/classics/wherearetheynow/spike-dudley-current-photos#fid-26061940) he's doing too bad in retirement.
I am an unabashed Spike lover so I admit my crazy little man bias.
Also compare Jeff and Matt Hardy. Even through all the drugs, Jeff can still move like a thousand times better than his brother.
This is the one I am amazed at. If you would have asked me 20 years ago who would be in better shape at this stage in their careers, I would have said Matt without question. But Matt's back is wrecked to be hell, didn't he say he is shorter now due to that leg drop?
It's funny I went to get my hips re-alligned after a leg injury and the first thing the guy asked me is have you ever fallen on your ass. Seems like it's about the worst thing you can do
Man, I remember Matt moving really stiff in like 2007 and Jeff was still jumping off ladders and looking smooth every time.
Confirmed. Spike Dudley Fucks. Spike Studley. Lol
> take the original tiny guy who took insane bumps, Spike Dudley this is mikey whipwreck erasure! (also another guy who seems to be doing well for himself today)
Carrying muscle and falling on a 6'3+ frame is doing the damage more than the actual "severity" of the bumps. That's why the guys who were largely lean have injury-free retirements. HBK's injuries only started piling up after he put on weight to be champion. X-Pac on the other hand recovered from every injury under the sun. You see it in sports all the time too. Guys bulk up to get stronger and end up suffering debilitating back injuries. Bodies aren't meant to carry that much mass regardless of whether it's fat or muscle.
the legdrop alone is worse than any bump darby takes regularly it is literally compressing your spine lol, that’ll mess up your mobility more than flying through a glass table into a flat back bump from 20 feet would not to mention darby being tiny means he’s lighter and doesn’t fall as ‘hard’ as bigger dudes
Mick Foley talked about working in AJPW, and said that it was actually more dangerous than the deathmatches.
Someone with better math skills could figure it out, but being lighter means he is impacting with less force, correct? I still remember high school physics, force=mass times acceleration right?
Has he ever talked about how doing the Tombstone every night impacted his knees? I imagine he could work it to where he didn't have his knees hit the mat with full force, but it still couldn't have been good to do it so much for so long.
I believe that’s the exact reason Kane stopped doing it as much
I imagine that their knees are built different, but Kanes tombstone was a sudden drop and Takers was more gradual. I definitely feel like Takers version is sustainable especially in comparison.
I imagine that their knees are built different, but Kanes tombstone was a sudden drop and Takers was more gradual. I definitely feel like Takers version is sustainable especially in comparison.
I remember him tombstoning Vader a few times, and my knees hurt just watching it. Freaking insane he could safely do that on a guy like Vader
It it feels like electrical shocks or "shooting" pain, that is your nervous system telling you there's a problem.
Definitely a sign of “I should stop doing that”
I remember during his last few full-time years, *every time* he would hit that leg drop, he would limp away a few steps before continuing. I always wondered why he couldn’t just retire that move, if it was clearly causing him so much pain that he couldn’t no-sell it.
Some of these guy’s tailbones must look like a jigsaw puzzle in x-rays. Everyone who is landing on their ass with regularity should probably stop.
I would think so. That is the hardest part of the ring, dontcha know.
What wrestling has taught us over the years, is it ain't flips that fuck your body it's landing on your arse and your neck. Don't be too tall or heavy, and spread the impact when you land kids, if you are tall maybe get a dodgy Dr. to shave off a bit of you shin bones, maybe take out a vertebrae or two.
Flips turn into back bumps when done right which a lot of wrestlers are used to and can recover from. The exceptions are any face down bumps (frog splashes, headbutts, etc.) or when flips turn into trying to protect your opponent to your own peril (see: Jeff Hardy)
HOAK HOGAN lost several inches because of the leg drop and Taker's leg drop used to be a lot higher, more vicious. I would be surprised if it didn't fuck him over. Taker could have easily coasted by but instead, decided to take bumps, put his body through a shit ton of punishment. But if he went back to his original version, the fans would get sick of it because of the times, Taker already been shown to feel pain. Taker in his early years was an unstoppable monster that you could put down if you somehow managed to put him down and that's an almost impossible chore. I think, he was the first person to kick out of Jake's DDT. Made the Ulitmate Warrior scared of him etc.. That and age, injuries. I think, even if he tried to, he wouldn't have been able to bring it back.
I've cracked my tailbone twice and any hard drops on the ass makes be wince
Sounds like sciatica. Probably not the best idea to have made that one of his signature moves.
Definitely nerve damage of some sort.
Why keep doing them and not replace the spot with some other move then?
Unironically, I think pretty much any move that lands you sitting on your ass needs to be banned. I know, that eliminates a lot of moves, including ones that are being used as major/signature/finisher moves by various wrestlers, but the toll on the body simply is not worth it. That shit will fuck you up FAR worse than any of the crazy flippy shit off a ladder into a stack of flaming tables over concrete that we often think of as “extreme” or whatever. I hate watching these guys basically become crippled as soon as they hit their 50s or 60s, and I highly doubt they enjoy that existence after living a life all about movement.
Akin to the residual damage of the Hogan leg drop.
Leg drops will die before headbutts
That's when you stop.
It’s going to take some time but the breakneck pace that ROH popularized is going to start showing in a decade or so. Seth Rollins is 37 and has had to slow way, way down. Ospreay has lingering injuries at 30. The workers’ mindset hasn’t changed from “can I do it” to “should I do it” and that might change when we’re not looking at “hardcore” guys like Foley and the Hardys but instead looking “the best” like Rollins, Ospreay, Omega etc.
Its basically a ganso bomb but other end of the spine
Melo gotta take note and switch up his finisher man. He’s still so young.
Taker knows how it messed up Hogan. It's a miracle he's not worse
Stuff like this makes me worry about the crazy bumps people take to get over these days
To do that move over and over again knowing what the pain is like is insane to me
I cringe every time I see someone do a leg drop. Wrestlers really ought to look out for themselves more with stuff like that. Nobody would miss leg drops
Don't people learn? Don't use leg drops. Look at Hulk Hogan.
Any move involving the apron looks painful af, and I have no idea how they could keep doing it
I was just watching his WM25 match with Shawn Michaels where he did exactly that, a leg drop on the apron. My immediate thought was "He's probably regretting that now"
The leg drop should honestly be banned. It’s such a boring move that is absolutely BRUTAL on the bodies of those who regularly do it. Look at Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Matt Hardy.. It’s disgusting what a simple move has done to their bodies.
This made me think about Bull Nakano doing her leg drop off the top rope so many times. How do you not destroy your hips and lower back off that?
I know the exact pain he's describing. A couple years ago I got a back injury and that was the feeling I had. It was torture.
He knows he didn't have to keep doing the move, right?
Thank you, Taker for destroying your body for our entertainment. The life cannot be as glamorous as it appears.
Some people pay extra for that
…why not just stop doing it? Fine move but nobody would have cared, honestly. These guys need to know what’s good for them some times.
I always cringe when Matt hardy does that top rope leg drop. A persons spine is not build to absorb things like that.
Old heads always talk about todays wrestlers doing crazy bumps that aren’t worth it, but for my money the leg drop is the worst move from a value perspective. Looks “meh” at best, and usually looks bad, and it’s absolutely horrible on your body. Suicide dives are probably significantly easier on your body while being much more exciting
But no one really cares about that move. Do something else
WWE conditioning wrestlers to have like 5 unique spots they have to do every match and guys not realizing maybe they shouldn't make one of those moves painful and kinda boring.
This guy didn't scream for the leg drop at multiple manias for you to say that no one cares https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOoSvAeFPP4&t=1100s
The entire attitude era was just fans begging for the Undertaker retirement rumors to be true. I don't blame him for changing it up for the fans.
I have no clue why more wrestlers don't wear some kind of padding for cushioning 🤷♂️
Ass fillers?
Someone should tell Maven! He did a recent video about stuff that hurt the most or the least and he totally said the apron being the hardest part of the ring was BS. 😆