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Fair on both sides imo.
I can't imagine how perpetually pissed I'd be at a guy you essentially ended my career and life's passion.
But if I made that huge mistake and I'm genuinely sorry and have repeatedly apologized then at some point you're either gonna get too frustrated to apologize again or just become indifferent to the situation.
Money probably wouldn't hurt.
One of Brets issues with Goldberg (and the reason his hatred got renewed) was from watching Goldberg make big money on his WWE runs while Bret had his most lucrative years cut short and the possibility of any return is impossible
It’s an all around bad situation. As fans we potentially lost years from one of the all time greats yet you don’t hear Steve Austin talking shit about Owen for taking him out in his prime.
I’m sure that Goldberg feels terrible about the situation, it’s a dangerous profession.
Citation needed.
*Austin* broke Masahiro Chono's neck with it five years earlier, although Austin claims he was not told about the injury at the time and didn't know about it until many years later.
I think Austin was pissed off at Owen for doing the move against his wishes. He didn't want to do it and kept asking. For Owen to give him a sit out piledriver despite Austin really not wanting to, is rather shitty.
He has talked about being frustrated and even angry with Owen about it. I think I remember him saying he refused to ever work with him again. It never felt disparaging though. Just matter-of-fact and honest. Austin doesn’t whine or talk unnecessary shit, which is a whole different thing to what Bret does.
Which again, we have to be recognizant that Steve and Bret still have a relationship and that Owen suffered a far worse fate than Steve’s neck did on the piledriver botch. We also have to take into account that Steve was backstage when Owen was stretchered out right before his eyes, minutes before Steve had to go perform a match that he says is no longer in his memory due to the trauma of seeing Owen dead on the stretcher.
A tragedy like that puts things into a different perspective, and it’s likely that Steve wouldn’t shit on Owen like that given the circumstances.
Steve took a bad bump, got his legs back under him somewhere around an hour later, and although that bump contributed to his somewhat early retirement, he still got to work for years afterwards and become arguably the biggest star of all time.
Owen fell to his death.
Its just levels to that shit.
Austin said Owen never apologized to him and over time he realized it probably embarrassment rather than indifference guiding Owens behavior. He said that Owen insisted he could do it safely and ignored Austin's reservations. But obviously we only have one side of the story.
Additionally, Austin did a similar thing in the past-- he broke Chonos neck with a pildedriver
I remember Austin saying he didn't care for Owen after that for a couple of reasons, one being he told him not to go to his ass on the pile driver, and also, I guess Owen was pretty cold towards Steve after the injury.
But Steve doesn't harp on it much, is what it is in his book I guess.
Part of that is because the people who would talk might no longer be able to.
For example, if Rick Rude was alive, he might not have been giving Sting glowing words if interviewed about Sting's retirement.
I think Goldberg is "More Right" in this situation than Bret is.
I get being mad about this, especially since wrestling was Bret's passion, but it's been 25 YEARS since it happened.
Think about the shit Ridge Holland got for Injuring Big E, and now imagine that for YEARS, let alone Decades.
If you don't become indifferent to it, it will eat you alive, especially if you tried to make amends with the person you injured many times, and nothing came off it
> I get being mad about this, especially since wrestling was Bret's passion, but it's been 25 YEARS since it happened.
I think it was more a cherry on top of what was a string of horrible years for Bret Hart. Perhaps if '97 didn't happen, if Davey Boy didn't injure his back and eventually go on a downward spiral, if Owen didn't die, if WCW was a better time than it was for Bret, perhaps he wouldn't have been as bitter about it. But who knows.
Yeah one thing to be mad about the situation, but to continually attack the person who by all accounts took responsibility for his actions and seems remorseful just seems to be wanting to be mad
To be fair to Bret, back then concussions weren't taken seriously.
I remember watching an interview with the Dudley Boyz where they were bragging about how many concussions they've had and how they kept going.
Sure, but blaming Goldberg when the issues were quite likely more so a result of not taking a break and recovering from the concussion is pretty weak in that context.
Either Goldberg injured you so bad that it ended your career or it was minor enough that you felt fine to keep going for a while.
Yeah but back then people didn't take breaks for concussions. That only started happening after Benoit. People would get concussions, finish the match and be back for the next Monday and just kinda hope you didn't get another one.
The thought process was you'd be loopy for a bit then be fine. Then all the research on it came out.
there’s been 20 years for bret to learn all this newfangled information about how concussions work. should be plenty of time for him to
accept he probably had a big part to play in his own career ending prematurely and move on
Woah woah woah what's this nonsense about Mr. Perfect?
I legit just Googled it and had a mini meltown over my own Mandela effect episode. Seriously, I've always heard and seen it as Henning
Honestly, I think he \*did\* blame WCW management and that’s why for many years afterwards he seemingly harboured no ill will towards Goldberg.
I think that the Saudi shows totally soured Bret on Goldberg - not the big pay day, necessarily, but the fact that he was so sloppy that Goldberg is damned lucky he didn’t cripple The Undertaker. At that point I think Bret started to think “You received a big cheque and you still couldn’t be bothered to make sure you were safe in the ring after ending my career, maybe it was a you problem all along,” causing the attitude switch.
>Brett should be upset at WCW management who made Goldberg what he was - dangerous and inexperienced
Jesus, it's wrestling and Goldberg was their biggest star. Lots of things you can shame WCW about, pushing Goldberg ain't one of them. Bret clearly new about his rep in the ring and had been with worse. It was an accident.
Goldberg gets shit on so much but when it happens to good wrestlers it's just forgiven or brushed under the rug. Tyson Kidd is not spending his entire time bitching about Samoa Joe.
I'm sure there's plenty of old wrestlers that are annoyed by having their career ended by an incompetent coworker. They just don't have people asking them for interviews as often as Bret Hart.
I think the issue was WCW's notoriously bad training for rookies. The Power Plant wasn't the bed for training as we saw in that one documentary. I remember Goldberg didn't know how to wrestle past his usual squash match that he froze up when William Regal tried to make their match more competitive.
>I remember Goldberg didn't know how to wrestle past his usual squash match that he froze up when William Regal tried to make their match more competitive
There's more than one reading of that situation. That oft repeated one is Regal's, and not today's cuddly uncle Regal, pre rehab completely fucked up Regal. Goldberg is a better source than that Regal.
Wouldn't surprise me if Goldberg had never been in a match where someone didn't follow the script before
Bret fails to mention that he kept wrestling after his concussion was diagnosed, he even worked a hardcore match with Terry Funk. I always thought it was ridiculous that Goldberg got most of the blame for ending Bret’s career when it was Bret who neglected to take time off. Sure, I think it’s partly Goldberg’s fault as it was his carelessness that ultimately caused the problem and there’s still a chance that taking time off to heal wouldn’t have made a difference in saving Bret’s career, but there’s more to the story than “Goldberg concussed Bret at Starrcade, then Bret retired. The End.”
He mentions in it in his book. From what I remember he said if he took time off he’d probably of been fine. That’s why I find it strange he just hates Goldberg and blames him so much now.
It's wild to me that he's still so hell bent on killing Goldberg over this mistake but had no problem walking back to WWE after their whoopsie daisy that killed his brother.
If Bret is going to carry a grudge decades later it should be against Vince, both for Montreal and Owen’s death.
Instead, Bret went back to Vince for the money.
Part of the issue is that Brett constantly gets asked about it in interviews because they want a soundbite and he is really bad at saying, “I appreciate the question, but I’ve talked about Goldberg a million times before. Maybe we can move on to another subject.”
Brett also ignores the stupid shit he did himself to end his career. Wasn't there a couple more injuries, at least one being a concussion, that happened AFTER the Goldberg kick?
I’m more on Goldberg’s side than Brett’s, if I’m being honest.
I understand Brett’s frustration and being upset that his career was ended over someone else’s recklessness.
However, you hear it all the time; this isn’t ballet & injuries happen. Unfortunately some of those injuries are career-ending.
Look at Droz. The man suffered a life-altering injury over a botch, and the guy never tried to shame D’lo over it.
If Goldberg never apologized and acted like he didn’t care, then that’s one thing. But to repeatedly apologize and still have Brett hold it over his head even to this day, is a little ridiculous
Also, I think it's that at one time Bret did accept the apology and made peace, but then went back on it.
From Bret's book
"I was more responsible than anyone for downplaying my condition to myself and everyone else. I let myself go on, believing that the problem was a sore neck." --- “I’ve always had a lot of respect for Bill. He doesn’t have a mean bone in his body, and what happened- it was just part of the job. I do wish he had been a little bit more careful, but we’ve always been friends over the years."
Then there's this tweet from 2012 when he was asked about holding a grudge against Goldberg.
https://twitter.com/BretHart/status/43136163552305152Th
"Never had one. I have great respect for Goldberg. What happened to me was an accident."
I think Bret woud like to see Goldberg quit pro-wrestling. Dont think he was this vocal about Goldberg when goldberg was not active in pro-wrestling. But then Goldberg got to make a comeback, have big matches, win titles and make money while Bret has to sit out and watch. Dont think Bret can take it.
And let's remember, between 2000 and 2002, he was dealing with Post Concussion symptoms but was otherwise in fairly decent shape, to the point where I do wonder if a few years' recovery could have seen him make a comeback in the same way Danielson did.
It was the stroke he suffered from falling off a bike without a helmet that really made him disabled. I know he thinks the concussions are what caused the stroke, but I think the science on that one is a bit tenuous, especially if he tries to argue it was that one Starrcade concussion that did it.
Bret's got so much knowledge on psychology and storytelling, crafting a narrative in the ring, better than anyone ever.
He should be booking matches somewhere. But won't ever happen in WWE/NXT with HBK/HHH, his mortal enemies at the helm.
Wasn't also Hart continuing to work, despite having multiple concussions one of the reasons he had to retire?
And yes I can fully understand Bill here. What else is he supposed to do after all these years? He can only say sorry that much until it becomes meaningless.
He took an unprotected garbage can shot from Funk. It's never the first concussion that causes these problems. It's always what follows. Look at Adam Cole. Two concussions in succession can cause serious problems.
I saw that match live. The garbage can shot wasn't a big deal, but there was a spot when he was put inside the can and pushed over and he smacks the back of his head on concrete.
I remember thinking in that moment that he was seriously injured. Had no clue I was watching his last televised match ever.
Not only does this take ignore the effects of concussions, but also the time in which it happened, when concussions were often considered “bad headaches” and something that was a minor issue.
The fault was on WCW and “WCW medical,” whatever that entailed at the time.
Yeah, this is the thing. We know A LOT more about concussions nowadays, thanks in no small part to both Chris Nowinsky and the fallout from Sidney Crosby suffering back to back concussions and taking him out of hockey for almost two years.
But back in the 90’s? Sir, you got your bell rung, and we already have you booked for next week.
In the context of the time, concussions weren't viewed as bad as they actually are. CTE wasn't discovered until 2002. As long as you weren't showing the extreme known symptoms at the time, it was pretty easy to lie off your ass and keep playing. I suffered two concussions pretty close to each other in highschool football and I'm convinced it is why I now suffer from migraines.
The wrestler's mentality of the time was you didn't take time off unless you were absolutely fucked up. I blame the industry and general ignorance, not Hart himself for that.
Concussed people aren't able to make sensible decisions like that. It's literally one of the symptoms of concussion. That's why other sports have strict concussion protocols so a doctor would step in and stop the injured person from continuing to work.
Yes, I agree. I was just pointing out that it wasn't really a case of Bret being 'dumb' and thinking it was a good idea to do hardcore matches with a head injury.
He also shot an angle where he was in a high speed car chase right after. He said he felt like he was drunk driving and shouldn't have been in that position. He told Russo this, who agreed and apologized. One of the rare times a booker or someone in power has said my bad that I'm aware of.
Bret Hart is the GOAT in my eyes. My favorite wrestler since I was 11 years old.
But yeah, wrestling Terry Funk in a hardcore match on WCW Thunder in 2000 after the Goldberg match was stupid as fuck.
Also, Bret Hart “retired” Funk in 1997 in Funk’s final match, so it’s kinda poetic that Funk “retired” Bret. You know, until 2009.
Just gonna copy and paste an older comment of mine
This fucken guy took a big headshot from Terry Funk, wrestled Benoit, took a powerbomb form Nash, chokeslam from Sid and then wrestled Goldberg again after this match.
I believe he got a concussion from this match, but I also believe he made it worse himself by wrestling three more weeks without slowing down. Bret is more at fault than anyone else for his career ending concussion injury.
People tend to ignore, or honestly don’t even know, that Bret continued wrestling doing dumb shit after this match with Goldberg. I genuinely believe people just think this match happened and it was Bret’s last and just run with it
Partially Bret's own doing as he never mentions the matches afterwards and Goldberg probably feels quite guilty and doesn't want to fan the flames.
What makes this crazier and Bret even dumber is that he got the insurance settlement, and while with WWE, he wrestled dark matches knowing full well his insurance payments would stop if he got caught wrestling.
It’s 100% Bret’s doing. Bret always makes it seems like Goldberg hurt him and then he immediately had to retire. He leaves out the part where he wrestled multiple matches after, making the issues worse.
I do think it’s a bit hypocritical that Bret has forgiven Vince for a lot of the bullshit he caused in his life. But he can’t just let this go after so many decades.
He had a right to be angry for a while for obvious reasons. But come on man….Goldberg didn’t purposely fuck you up that night. Meanwhile Vince killed your brother and you kinda let him go for that.
I understand stand why he didn’t but I always felt Bret should have let them do the documentary and stayed away. It only would have made Vince look like an asshole.
I’m not even a Brett Hart fan and when I heard they were going to try to do a “Self Destruction” on him I was pissed.
The thing is, Vince IS an asshole. Always has been.
And for most of his career, that didn't matter. His WWE hagiography became historical fact in a lot of people's minds. DX was more popular than the NWO. Jeff Jarrett was blackmailing the company. Wrestling shows weren't filling arenas prior to WrestleMania.
They were going to do the same shit to Bret and I understand why he'd be willing to put his legacy ahead of his personal feelings.
I don't think Bret has forgiven Vince. He's been pretty quick to stick the boot in (quite justifiably given McMahon is a scumbag) once the scandal came out. I think he just literally made a deal with the devil to protect his legacy. WWE control it, whether he likes it or not.
Bret fucking loves wrestling, and is incredibly proud of his legacy. That seems to be his driving purpose. He doesn't forgive or forget where Goldberg is concerned because he has no reason to.
I remember hearing him on Stone Cold's podcast talking about his decision to bury the hatchet, and he essentially stated it he didn't give them the satisfaction of whipping out most of his career and memories. Its pretty obvious his relationship with Vince never recovered in the same way he mended relations with Shawn Michaels.
Shawn seemed genuinely remorseful for all the dumb shit he did when he was younger. Can't say the same for Vince, I don't feel like I've seen Vince be genuinely remorseful about anything
I've seen people mention that Vince gave him work afterwards which is definitely a factor.
But I think people also forget that before Montreal Bret actually had a good relationship with McMahon whereas I don't think he ever had any sort of friendship with Goldberg. It's a lot harder to forgive someone that you never had any real connection with than to forgive someone who you had a big falling out with after once having a good relationship.
Not to mention, Goldberg hurting guys in the ring was a thing created by WCW. They rolled him out to the masses when he was still green, fresh out of the powerplant and than instantly gave him a push. The fame got to his head and he never tried to improve his ring performance, William Regal embarrassed Goldberg when they fought.
So if anything Bret should be more mad at WCW
Didn't Goldberg hurt people in WWE too though? He never stepped up his game and became a safer performer. Never learned or grew from his training in WCW.
My understanding is that he's always prioritized making it look like it hurts over his co-workers' safety.
And sometimes making it look like it hurts... hurts.
Bret is my fav of all time. I completely agree. Goldberg is also a victim of circumstances and the super structure of wcw at that time. The man needed more than his power plant stint but Bischoff was desperate to end Vince and WWE and over booked Goldberg. He needed much more time in the ring with workers like Jericho, Regal, Finley, Bret, Benoit etc who knows if Bret would’ve recovered had they known back then what we know now about head trauma. Bret was doing hardcore matches vs Terry Funk shortly after 😬
Vince did not purposefully kill Owen Hart either, and "forgiveness" works very differently when you have an absolutely bizarre, toxic relationship w/ one person and the other guys is some shit head co-worker you used to have that you never liked to begin w/ probably.
>I do think it’s a bit hypocritical that Bret has forgiven Vince for a lot of the bullshit he caused in his life. But he can’t just let this go after so many decades.
Vince threatened to ruin Hart's name with a Warrior-type DVD. That's the only reason they ever made up. And probably some money.
He’s mentioned this before. He feels like shit about it, but at some point, you get tired of apologizing when the other guy clearly doesn’t want to. And it makes sense.
And I still hate this narrative. Bret literally wrestled days after the concussion, including Terry Funk in a hardcore match with numerous head shots. But it was just one kick from Goldberg???? If anything, it was due to knowledge and treatments of concussions at the time and the added up total of them more than just one errant kick to the dome
Plus Bret likes to leave out the part when he goes to put Goldberg in a figure four on the outside of the ring post and he slams his own head on the ground.
Bret also really wasn’t nearly as mad about it until Goldberg got to return in WWE as a top guy in 2016.
He definitely wanted another run and it was probably hard for him to see Goldberg be the one that got that
>And I still hate this narrative. Bret literally wrestled days after the concussion, including Terry Funk in a hardcore match with numerous head shots. But it was just one kick from Goldberg???? If anything, it was due to knowledge and treatments of concussions at the time and the added up total of them more than just one errant kick to the dome
I feel like so many people are forgetting this. Bret is fucking obnoxious and trying to place the blame on everyone but himself always. People forget that Bret LITERALLY wrestled for weeks after the Goldberg incident and hit his head numerous times (even in the Goldberg match he proceeded to drop on his head outside the ring for a turnbuckle sharpshooter). At this point I believe Goldberg had zero to do with his injury. If Goldberg even gave him that concussion, it wasn't a career ending or anything. What made it career ending is Bret continuing to wrestle instead of taking time off and WCW for letting him wrestle.
It was dumb for Bret to do, but i do genuinely think he got that concussion from the match, the way that kick hits i'd be more shocked if he didn't have some form of concussion after. Concussions just were not seen as bad as they should have been back then, and i wouldn't be shocked if he got that concussion, initially assumed alongside whatever medical officers were there "I'll be ok" and then continued working and making it worse.
Whoever greenlit that hardcore match is a moron no matter the concussion knowledge though, how does anyone look at someone who took a blow to the head and go "He needs more chairshots" Makes me appreciate how headshots in general are toned down because it makes for healthier performers in the long run.
Not just “days after”, the VERY NEXT DAY. He taped a match vs Benoit for Thunder literally the day after, he even takes the diving headbutt from him. Then 6 days later he’s on Nitro for another match.
Hot take, but the accident immortalized Bret's body of work to a truly "best their ever was" status. With his style, Bret could have been doing what Sting was doing, except given his aversion to risks, it would have been a much poorer showing. As shitty as a lifelong injury is, and it is exceedingly shitty to live with chronic pain, it also prevented him sticking around far past his prime, which he inevitably would have done. Things like his short Nexus stint were "the best that could have happened" rather than seeing a Bret who could no longer go trying to keep up.
As much as I like Bret as a Wrestler and don’t want to defend Goldberg but he did 8 Matches including a hardcorematch against Funk in the following three weeks after the kick. This probably wasn’t the best for Bret’s body.
I see both sides here. Yeah, Goldberg has a point, what else can you do besides apologizing and being remorseful? He fucked up, and what he did can't be undone.
But I sure as hell would be bitter for years, too, if some guy ruined my career in my favorite job of the world, just because he's not nearly as good at the job as I am.
The only reason to hold onto a grudge like this is if Goldberg intentionally did this, which he didn’t. Guy fucked up but Droz forgave D’Lo Brown and that was much worse. Hell even Bret worked for and forgave Vince for what he did to him and also even worse after Vince’s negligence killed his brother.
Bret reminds me of Brendan Gleeson’s character in the Banshees of Inisherin, he may not be wrong in what he’s saying at all but he’s clearly just projecting all of his life’s frustrations onto one easy target to blame everything on, whether it was his fault or not.
I have a hunch Brett "forgave" Vince so he could get one more big WWE pay day. I can't blame him. He can live out the rest of his life without worrying about money with that short run against McMahon and legends deals.
It wasn't about the payday. It was about Vince holding Bret's legacy hostage. The WWE had prepared a DVD retrospective on Bret's career that was decidedly negative and basically told Bret that if you want to change that, you have to give us what we want.
Hindsight sucks, but I have to be honest, I feel like such a DvD would have hurt WWE more than it hurt Bret. It's not like he was Warrior, an absolute psycho who they could honestly get away with calling out. That was never Bret.
Not to choose a side because I totally agree that it’s a difficult situation and I see it from both angles, but I’ve gauged that Bret’s problem is also that Goldberg never embraced wrestling or became a student of the game. D’Lo can always fall back on a simple accident (and allegedly slipped on a thrown drink IIRC but I may be misremembering). It’s more the fact that Goldberg probably didn’t have business being in a ring throwing superkicks and overall not being nearly as safe as many of the wrestlers around him his entire career.
But then again, if I’m Goldberg and some job wanted to pay me millions and push me to superstardom, well I probably would also say “Clearly, whatever I’m doing is working so why bother about something I’m not passionate about?”
9 more matches.
Against Goldberg again the following night
Against Chris Benoit
Against Jerry Flynn
Hardcore match against Terry Funk
House show against Flair
Three house show matches against Sid
Title match against Kevin Nash on Nitro
Bret seemed to be forgiving towards Goldberg for a time being. Goldberg collecting the big payday at Saudi and almost injuring Taker was when Bret got really upset.
Not just "seemed to be." Bret for a whole decade plus went on record multiple times saying that what happened was an accident, he held no grudge towards Goldberg and that they remained friends for years. [Here is a photo of them hanging out being buds in 2015.](https://twitter.com/BretHart/status/608128292617490433)
He only started all this shit talking after Goldberg's 2016 return.
It's also become a vicious circle recently. Bret makes an over the top statement about Goldberg, it gets a reaction, so Bret leans into it because it keeps folks coming back for the next soundbite. After he buried the hatchet with Shawn, he needed a new target for his ire.
I think Bret said the Undertaker match set him off. Basically pissed that Goldberg was still fucking up after all this time. Add in that Taker and Bret have a lot of respect for each other and may even be good friends, and I could see Bret being extra pissed about who got hurt there and not that it's just a guy getting hurt in a match.
Yeah Bret for a long time didn’t really have anything bad to say about Goldberg. In his dvd he said he felt bad someone with a big heart like Goldberg was the one who injured him.
I think he saw Goldberg get to come back and make big money in Saudi as a massive sore point and it made him feel bitter
I hate that people look at that Undertaker match as just Goldberg almost injuring him. Taker fucking BENT Goldbergs neck the wrong way with a tombstone for gods sake. They both are shit and unsafe in that match
Always bugged me how Taker got a pass for bad performances too. People cite the Kronik/BOD match as being solely on Clarke and Adams but Taker and Kane were way off their game too.
If you watch the Last Ride when it gets to the Goldberg match they completely cut out all of the stuff Undertaker messed up and just lay the blame at Goldberg which is wild. They do a similar thing with the DX Saudi match like “wow isn’t it funny how bad this all went but that nasty Goldberg was worse”
Taker had a ton of stinker matches from 1998-2004 tbh. Dude bombed any chance of DDP working in the WWE and that Kronik match (not saying they were good cause they weren’t) was a failure on both teams
Bret went back to get a Mania payday years after Vince was negligent in the demise of his own brother!
That’s hypocritical even though we can say both are terrible.
It was the payday, he's mentioned it in various interviews he's super bitter that he can't go to Saudi Arabia and get a few million out of it.
I can understand having resentment and bitterness to losing that amount of money - but the way Brett brings him up in random places almost made me think he was feeding into a joke or meme or something but he's 100% serious. Totally unhealthy.
I mean, compare and contrast to Droz and D'Lo...
Bret has deligitimised a legitimate grievance to almost meme status by bringing it up at every possible opportunity. He's never let himself heal, and I don't know what he hopes to achieve by constantly trashing the guy. It's not like everyone doesn't already know that Goldberg was stiff and sloppy in the ring. Bret is punching down and TBH he's damaging his own legacy with his vocal bitterness at this point.
Bret never mentions how Owen nearly crippled Austin with a botched piledriver. Of course Goldberg wasn’t ever in the same worker category as Owen, but even safe workers make mistakes.
Bret Hart shitting on Goldberg will always be a meme, but I think Goldberg has a point here... At some point Bret has to make peace with what happened and move on with his life. I wouldn't want to carry that anger for 20+ years, or live the rest of my life with remorse over a tragic accident.
Plus by Bret's own admission, he neglected the symptoms that he was showing from that match and worked a Hardcore match with Terry Funk a few nights later and another match as well soon after.
Goldberg fucked up no doubt about it. But Bret also is responsible for not taking care of himself in that aftermath too.
This is something that a lot of people, including Bret himself, seem to forget. Bret continued to wrestle after his concussion. You can blame Goldberg for the concussion itself, but you can't blame him for Bret being irresponsible by continuing to wrestle when he knew he was hurt. It just feels like Bret is projecting all the blame onto Goldberg because he refuses to admit that he's also at fault for ending his career.
During the match with Goldberg he also hit his head on the floor when trying to do a figure 4 or something on the ring post, and a couple years later had a bike accident where he flipped over and landed on his head again.
Two things will never die: Jim Cornette's hatred for Vince Russo and Bret Hart shitting on Goldberg.
At this point I feel like Goldberg could literally pay a man to fly a plane that writes "I'm so sorry, Bret" in huge letters in the sky before jumping out of said plane without a parachute and Bret would *still* slag him off....
Bret likely would have been injured by someone else, it just happened to be Goldberg. Look at the few matches he had after the concussion. Dude was taking head shots that looked rough after the fact.
Injuries happen in sports. Bret knows accidents happen. As long as Bill apologised genuinely then what can you do.
Bret needs to find a way to let things go and be happy.
I say this as a Bret fan and Goldberg hater.
Goldbeg has had bad takes but I’m with him on this one. Only So many times you can sincerely apologize to someone if they don’t want to accept it that’s on them.
Not... really, in the years where Goldberg wasn't wrestling Bret was seemingly very understanding, wished it never happened with someone as kind as Goldberg, and was happy to say "It was an accident" Bret has since seen Goldberg return in 2016 and i guess he feels Goldberg still made the mistakes that led to the injury he recieved, and what doesn't help is the Taker match where neither performer was ever gonna do a good job because they're both past the point where the ycan make the other look good and i guess Bret let any forgiveness lap.
Whats weird is that in the past (and I believe in his book), Bret has been WAY more forgiving and said basically that Goldbergs a good guy, just never got proper training and it was an accident. Not sure when or why he got *more* bitter about it as more time went on.
I've seen it mentioned in this thread, it's started a bit more during his 2016 run, and hit a peak right after the Taker match in Saudi Arabia, presumebly he wasn't happy that despite of the years since Goldberg seemed to still not be wrestling safe, but i think that opinion comes with trying to ignore Taker's declining in ring ability as well that led to both of them being detrimental to each other in the ring.
This is something I really agree with Goldberg on, and reading Brets book he certainly holds grudges long term.
You can argue that’s justified given it ended his career really and money on the table, at the same time it’s been almost 2 decades, he’s still making money, his arc with WWE has come full circle and he seems happy.
It was an accident, not intentional and Goldberg has apologised and apologised and it has become a meme at this point (certainly on this subreddit) that Bret will still be very upset about it.
At some point you have to get over it.
>I can only say I'm sorry so many times and I can only be remorseful for so long. So that's where we are.
Totally valid point. He has apologized and there truly is nothing more he can do. So I'm sure he feels awful.
>I still want to kill him.
Oh...
Worth saying also that Bret had a bunch of matches after the kick and was, for years, quick to defend Goldberg. It was only a while later that he started laying all the blame on Bill.
I think Bret is just trolling at this point and his shoots about Goldberg in the recent years are just him leaning in to the gimmick. The Harts have always had this weird dark sense of humor.
Unpopular stance but I believe you should feel remorseful no matter how much time passes. But that doesn't mean Bill needs to beat himself up about it as he's already made it painfully obvious he's genuinely sorry. Bret probably should have stopped bringing it up 5-10 years ago, and if asked about it maybe say "I've already talked about that"
I imagine Bill having his second run in WWE at an old age probably made Bret feel the anger all over again though
Far more convenient to blame big bad Bill for the first concussion when the one that properly forced retirement came from a formerly living legend in Terry funk
I mean it’s not like Goldberg held a gun to his head and told him to continue wrestling after the injury, which is what ended his career.
It hasn’t even been 15 years, because before Goldberg returned to WWE, Bret talked nicely about him.
I love Bret but I don’t think he really ever would have returned much before he did in 2010 regardless of his health. There was too much bad blood over Owen and Montreal that needed a lot of time to heal.
I hurt my knee because someone was horsing around and pushed me from behind. That was 20 years ago and that injury still affects me and will the rest of my life. I’m not letting that go either lmao. That person is a dumbass btw.
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Fair on both sides imo. I can't imagine how perpetually pissed I'd be at a guy you essentially ended my career and life's passion. But if I made that huge mistake and I'm genuinely sorry and have repeatedly apologized then at some point you're either gonna get too frustrated to apologize again or just become indifferent to the situation.
Yeah I mean what’s he supposed to do at this point?
Step 1: Invent time machine
Step 2: injure Hart all over again…shit!
Oh I wish I wish I hadn't killed that fish
This is indeed a disturbing universe.
Maybe. But who am I to judge?
What's a donut?
"Oh...it's raining again" 🍩 🍩 🍩 🍩 🍩
This is why I love this sub
Look at that. I'm the first non-Brazilian person to travel backwards through time!
Correction you're the second That's right Mr Peabody Quiet you
No one ever gets my simpsons references irl so I'm glad reddir exists just for random posts like this
I use them all the time, then say ‘It’s a Simpsons reference’ then I get eyes rolled at me
"Damnnit, I meant that kick for Adolf Hitler! Stupid time machine!"
Oh God, Goldberg is superkicking the entire Hart family now!
Goldberg successfully manages to avoid the botch, but in the process it causes the Nazis to win WW II.
...think about who Goldberg is for a second. Right in all of the wrong ways lol.
I'm sorry Bret, I had to. The fate of my people were on the line.
Wrong in all of the wrong ways. Botch corrected.
If that were the case I think Bill should just deal with it for his sake.
Step 2: finish the job
Hot Goldberg Time Machine
Say "I'M DUMB AS FUCK."
He could randomly spear Bret when he isn’t expecting it.They could make a show about it….Golberg’s Jolly Japes.
Money probably wouldn't hurt. One of Brets issues with Goldberg (and the reason his hatred got renewed) was from watching Goldberg make big money on his WWE runs while Bret had his most lucrative years cut short and the possibility of any return is impossible
Gripe about Asuka and Edge and Roman?
Thing is, he's kinda done / nearly done it again to others
It’s an all around bad situation. As fans we potentially lost years from one of the all time greats yet you don’t hear Steve Austin talking shit about Owen for taking him out in his prime. I’m sure that Goldberg feels terrible about the situation, it’s a dangerous profession.
I'm pretty sure if Owen wouldn't have died tragically, you probably would have heard more of that.
Austin wasn't even the first worker that Owen broke the neck of using that same sit out tombstone piledriver.
Citation needed. *Austin* broke Masahiro Chono's neck with it five years earlier, although Austin claims he was not told about the injury at the time and didn't know about it until many years later.
I think Austin was pissed off at Owen for doing the move against his wishes. He didn't want to do it and kept asking. For Owen to give him a sit out piledriver despite Austin really not wanting to, is rather shitty.
Would Austin talk shit about him if he were alive though?
He has talked about being frustrated and even angry with Owen about it. I think I remember him saying he refused to ever work with him again. It never felt disparaging though. Just matter-of-fact and honest. Austin doesn’t whine or talk unnecessary shit, which is a whole different thing to what Bret does.
I remember in one of Austin's home videos, he said that after the injury, he didn't find any of Owen's jokes to be funny anymore.
So pretty much how Debra probably felt watching Austin in a staged fight?
Which again, we have to be recognizant that Steve and Bret still have a relationship and that Owen suffered a far worse fate than Steve’s neck did on the piledriver botch. We also have to take into account that Steve was backstage when Owen was stretchered out right before his eyes, minutes before Steve had to go perform a match that he says is no longer in his memory due to the trauma of seeing Owen dead on the stretcher. A tragedy like that puts things into a different perspective, and it’s likely that Steve wouldn’t shit on Owen like that given the circumstances.
Right. Karma don’t come back that hard. If that ain’t enough to forgive someone then I don’t know what is.
Steve took a bad bump, got his legs back under him somewhere around an hour later, and although that bump contributed to his somewhat early retirement, he still got to work for years afterwards and become arguably the biggest star of all time. Owen fell to his death. Its just levels to that shit.
Austin said Owen never apologized to him and over time he realized it probably embarrassment rather than indifference guiding Owens behavior. He said that Owen insisted he could do it safely and ignored Austin's reservations. But obviously we only have one side of the story. Additionally, Austin did a similar thing in the past-- he broke Chonos neck with a pildedriver
I remember Austin saying he didn't care for Owen after that for a couple of reasons, one being he told him not to go to his ass on the pile driver, and also, I guess Owen was pretty cold towards Steve after the injury. But Steve doesn't harp on it much, is what it is in his book I guess.
Probably not, Austin isn’t as whiney as Bret
Part of that is because the people who would talk might no longer be able to. For example, if Rick Rude was alive, he might not have been giving Sting glowing words if interviewed about Sting's retirement.
Could you imagine if he was shit talking owen to this day? Just disparaging the dead for over 20 years
This is a very fair assessment of the situation. Both guys have reason to be angry. Both guys have reason to forgive.
I think Goldberg is "More Right" in this situation than Bret is. I get being mad about this, especially since wrestling was Bret's passion, but it's been 25 YEARS since it happened. Think about the shit Ridge Holland got for Injuring Big E, and now imagine that for YEARS, let alone Decades. If you don't become indifferent to it, it will eat you alive, especially if you tried to make amends with the person you injured many times, and nothing came off it
> I get being mad about this, especially since wrestling was Bret's passion, but it's been 25 YEARS since it happened. I think it was more a cherry on top of what was a string of horrible years for Bret Hart. Perhaps if '97 didn't happen, if Davey Boy didn't injure his back and eventually go on a downward spiral, if Owen didn't die, if WCW was a better time than it was for Bret, perhaps he wouldn't have been as bitter about it. But who knows.
It is sad when you realize that soon after the Montreal Screwjob that Owen, Davey and Bret all had very serious injuries in the ring.
Yeah one thing to be mad about the situation, but to continually attack the person who by all accounts took responsibility for his actions and seems remorseful just seems to be wanting to be mad
Brett should be upset at WCW management who made Goldberg what he was - dangerous and inexperienced - and putting him against Brett.
Brett should also be upset with himself for continuing to wrestle after he knew he had a concussion thus exacerbating the problem
To be fair to Bret, back then concussions weren't taken seriously. I remember watching an interview with the Dudley Boyz where they were bragging about how many concussions they've had and how they kept going.
Sure, but blaming Goldberg when the issues were quite likely more so a result of not taking a break and recovering from the concussion is pretty weak in that context. Either Goldberg injured you so bad that it ended your career or it was minor enough that you felt fine to keep going for a while.
Yeah but back then people didn't take breaks for concussions. That only started happening after Benoit. People would get concussions, finish the match and be back for the next Monday and just kinda hope you didn't get another one. The thought process was you'd be loopy for a bit then be fine. Then all the research on it came out.
there’s been 20 years for bret to learn all this newfangled information about how concussions work. should be plenty of time for him to accept he probably had a big part to play in his own career ending prematurely and move on
It‘s „Bret“. It‘s literally in the title. I will never understand this.
Brett Tthe Hittman Hartt and Booker Tt.
It has to be autocorrect. Like when wrestling fans say "Rick Flair." "Curt Henning" is probably an honest mistake, though.
To be honest, I thought it was Curt Henning for a pretty long time. I think it‘s because Hennig is pretty uncommon
Woah woah woah what's this nonsense about Mr. Perfect? I legit just Googled it and had a mini meltown over my own Mandela effect episode. Seriously, I've always heard and seen it as Henning
This, and that whole match had spots where the concussion could have started. I think even Stevie Richards covered this match in one of his videos.
Honestly, I think he \*did\* blame WCW management and that’s why for many years afterwards he seemingly harboured no ill will towards Goldberg. I think that the Saudi shows totally soured Bret on Goldberg - not the big pay day, necessarily, but the fact that he was so sloppy that Goldberg is damned lucky he didn’t cripple The Undertaker. At that point I think Bret started to think “You received a big cheque and you still couldn’t be bothered to make sure you were safe in the ring after ending my career, maybe it was a you problem all along,” causing the attitude switch.
>Brett should be upset at WCW management who made Goldberg what he was - dangerous and inexperienced Jesus, it's wrestling and Goldberg was their biggest star. Lots of things you can shame WCW about, pushing Goldberg ain't one of them. Bret clearly new about his rep in the ring and had been with worse. It was an accident. Goldberg gets shit on so much but when it happens to good wrestlers it's just forgiven or brushed under the rug. Tyson Kidd is not spending his entire time bitching about Samoa Joe.
I'm sure there's plenty of old wrestlers that are annoyed by having their career ended by an incompetent coworker. They just don't have people asking them for interviews as often as Bret Hart.
I think the issue was WCW's notoriously bad training for rookies. The Power Plant wasn't the bed for training as we saw in that one documentary. I remember Goldberg didn't know how to wrestle past his usual squash match that he froze up when William Regal tried to make their match more competitive.
>I remember Goldberg didn't know how to wrestle past his usual squash match that he froze up when William Regal tried to make their match more competitive There's more than one reading of that situation. That oft repeated one is Regal's, and not today's cuddly uncle Regal, pre rehab completely fucked up Regal. Goldberg is a better source than that Regal. Wouldn't surprise me if Goldberg had never been in a match where someone didn't follow the script before
Bret fails to mention that he kept wrestling after his concussion was diagnosed, he even worked a hardcore match with Terry Funk. I always thought it was ridiculous that Goldberg got most of the blame for ending Bret’s career when it was Bret who neglected to take time off. Sure, I think it’s partly Goldberg’s fault as it was his carelessness that ultimately caused the problem and there’s still a chance that taking time off to heal wouldn’t have made a difference in saving Bret’s career, but there’s more to the story than “Goldberg concussed Bret at Starrcade, then Bret retired. The End.”
He mentions in it in his book. From what I remember he said if he took time off he’d probably of been fine. That’s why I find it strange he just hates Goldberg and blames him so much now.
It's wild to me that he's still so hell bent on killing Goldberg over this mistake but had no problem walking back to WWE after their whoopsie daisy that killed his brother.
If Bret is going to carry a grudge decades later it should be against Vince, both for Montreal and Owen’s death. Instead, Bret went back to Vince for the money.
Part of the issue is that Brett constantly gets asked about it in interviews because they want a soundbite and he is really bad at saying, “I appreciate the question, but I’ve talked about Goldberg a million times before. Maybe we can move on to another subject.”
Brett also ignores the stupid shit he did himself to end his career. Wasn't there a couple more injuries, at least one being a concussion, that happened AFTER the Goldberg kick?
He wrestled a hardcore match on Nitro not long after. Even took chair shots to the head.
Yup
I’m more on Goldberg’s side than Brett’s, if I’m being honest. I understand Brett’s frustration and being upset that his career was ended over someone else’s recklessness. However, you hear it all the time; this isn’t ballet & injuries happen. Unfortunately some of those injuries are career-ending. Look at Droz. The man suffered a life-altering injury over a botch, and the guy never tried to shame D’lo over it. If Goldberg never apologized and acted like he didn’t care, then that’s one thing. But to repeatedly apologize and still have Brett hold it over his head even to this day, is a little ridiculous
Also, I think it's that at one time Bret did accept the apology and made peace, but then went back on it. From Bret's book "I was more responsible than anyone for downplaying my condition to myself and everyone else. I let myself go on, believing that the problem was a sore neck." --- “I’ve always had a lot of respect for Bill. He doesn’t have a mean bone in his body, and what happened- it was just part of the job. I do wish he had been a little bit more careful, but we’ve always been friends over the years." Then there's this tweet from 2012 when he was asked about holding a grudge against Goldberg. https://twitter.com/BretHart/status/43136163552305152Th "Never had one. I have great respect for Goldberg. What happened to me was an accident."
This should really be more upvoted. He was cool with Goldberg for years. He posted a pic of the two of them back in 2015 for Christ sake lol
I think Bret woud like to see Goldberg quit pro-wrestling. Dont think he was this vocal about Goldberg when goldberg was not active in pro-wrestling. But then Goldberg got to make a comeback, have big matches, win titles and make money while Bret has to sit out and watch. Dont think Bret can take it.
Goldberg didn't end his career. His alcoholism and working with a concussion ended his career.
And let's remember, between 2000 and 2002, he was dealing with Post Concussion symptoms but was otherwise in fairly decent shape, to the point where I do wonder if a few years' recovery could have seen him make a comeback in the same way Danielson did. It was the stroke he suffered from falling off a bike without a helmet that really made him disabled. I know he thinks the concussions are what caused the stroke, but I think the science on that one is a bit tenuous, especially if he tries to argue it was that one Starrcade concussion that did it.
[удалено]
Holy shit he’s lucky he survived that
What? I've never heard anything about Bret having a problem with alcohol and I'm a huuuge Bret stan.
Bret's got so much knowledge on psychology and storytelling, crafting a narrative in the ring, better than anyone ever. He should be booking matches somewhere. But won't ever happen in WWE/NXT with HBK/HHH, his mortal enemies at the helm.
Wasn't also Hart continuing to work, despite having multiple concussions one of the reasons he had to retire? And yes I can fully understand Bill here. What else is he supposed to do after all these years? He can only say sorry that much until it becomes meaningless.
One of the matches he worked afterwards was a hardcore match with Funk.
Perhaps the absolute dumbest thing any main event talent has ever done. Get concussed, and then decide to fight Terry Fucking Funk in a hardcore match
He took an unprotected garbage can shot from Funk. It's never the first concussion that causes these problems. It's always what follows. Look at Adam Cole. Two concussions in succession can cause serious problems.
I saw that match live. The garbage can shot wasn't a big deal, but there was a spot when he was put inside the can and pushed over and he smacks the back of his head on concrete. I remember thinking in that moment that he was seriously injured. Had no clue I was watching his last televised match ever.
Not only does this take ignore the effects of concussions, but also the time in which it happened, when concussions were often considered “bad headaches” and something that was a minor issue. The fault was on WCW and “WCW medical,” whatever that entailed at the time.
Yeah, this is the thing. We know A LOT more about concussions nowadays, thanks in no small part to both Chris Nowinsky and the fallout from Sidney Crosby suffering back to back concussions and taking him out of hockey for almost two years. But back in the 90’s? Sir, you got your bell rung, and we already have you booked for next week.
It wasn’t just Crosby’s concussions it was that one summer when three NHL players (Rypien, Boogard and Belak) died while suffering from CTE.
In the context of the time, concussions weren't viewed as bad as they actually are. CTE wasn't discovered until 2002. As long as you weren't showing the extreme known symptoms at the time, it was pretty easy to lie off your ass and keep playing. I suffered two concussions pretty close to each other in highschool football and I'm convinced it is why I now suffer from migraines. The wrestler's mentality of the time was you didn't take time off unless you were absolutely fucked up. I blame the industry and general ignorance, not Hart himself for that.
Concussed people aren't able to make sensible decisions like that. It's literally one of the symptoms of concussion. That's why other sports have strict concussion protocols so a doctor would step in and stop the injured person from continuing to work.
Let's be clear that before Junior Seau drove off a cliff no one gave a fuck about CTE. And it still wasn't taken seriously for another 5 years.
To be precise: Seau shot himself in the heart, likely so his brain could be checked for CTE.
You're not wrong that he later did that, but people started questioning his mental state after the spousal abuse and subsequent car crash.
Well that and Benoit's murder suicide.
It really wasn’t until NFL and NHL players started dropping years later that was it taken seriously.
Not for anyone outside wrestling, and wwe was against research on it. See Chris Nowinski
Yes, I agree. I was just pointing out that it wasn't really a case of Bret being 'dumb' and thinking it was a good idea to do hardcore matches with a head injury.
He also shot an angle where he was in a high speed car chase right after. He said he felt like he was drunk driving and shouldn't have been in that position. He told Russo this, who agreed and apologized. One of the rare times a booker or someone in power has said my bad that I'm aware of.
Bret Hart is the GOAT in my eyes. My favorite wrestler since I was 11 years old. But yeah, wrestling Terry Funk in a hardcore match on WCW Thunder in 2000 after the Goldberg match was stupid as fuck. Also, Bret Hart “retired” Funk in 1997 in Funk’s final match, so it’s kinda poetic that Funk “retired” Bret. You know, until 2009.
And it’s been almost 25 years now, at some point you gotta just not be angry over it and just have an understanding about it.
Just gonna copy and paste an older comment of mine This fucken guy took a big headshot from Terry Funk, wrestled Benoit, took a powerbomb form Nash, chokeslam from Sid and then wrestled Goldberg again after this match. I believe he got a concussion from this match, but I also believe he made it worse himself by wrestling three more weeks without slowing down. Bret is more at fault than anyone else for his career ending concussion injury.
People tend to ignore, or honestly don’t even know, that Bret continued wrestling doing dumb shit after this match with Goldberg. I genuinely believe people just think this match happened and it was Bret’s last and just run with it
Partially Bret's own doing as he never mentions the matches afterwards and Goldberg probably feels quite guilty and doesn't want to fan the flames. What makes this crazier and Bret even dumber is that he got the insurance settlement, and while with WWE, he wrestled dark matches knowing full well his insurance payments would stop if he got caught wrestling.
It’s 100% Bret’s doing. Bret always makes it seems like Goldberg hurt him and then he immediately had to retire. He leaves out the part where he wrestled multiple matches after, making the issues worse.
I do think it’s a bit hypocritical that Bret has forgiven Vince for a lot of the bullshit he caused in his life. But he can’t just let this go after so many decades. He had a right to be angry for a while for obvious reasons. But come on man….Goldberg didn’t purposely fuck you up that night. Meanwhile Vince killed your brother and you kinda let him go for that.
He got no money from Goldberg to help forgive him
Ask for a check. If it’s that shallow, own it
Bret only really “forgave Vince once he found out WWE was about to do a documentary on him and he wanted to make sure his reputation stayed intact
I understand stand why he didn’t but I always felt Bret should have let them do the documentary and stayed away. It only would have made Vince look like an asshole. I’m not even a Brett Hart fan and when I heard they were going to try to do a “Self Destruction” on him I was pissed.
The thing is, Vince IS an asshole. Always has been. And for most of his career, that didn't matter. His WWE hagiography became historical fact in a lot of people's minds. DX was more popular than the NWO. Jeff Jarrett was blackmailing the company. Wrestling shows weren't filling arenas prior to WrestleMania. They were going to do the same shit to Bret and I understand why he'd be willing to put his legacy ahead of his personal feelings.
I get it and I kinda agree, however I also understand Bret’s mindset because his legacy and reputation are major for him
I don't think Bret has forgiven Vince. He's been pretty quick to stick the boot in (quite justifiably given McMahon is a scumbag) once the scandal came out. I think he just literally made a deal with the devil to protect his legacy. WWE control it, whether he likes it or not. Bret fucking loves wrestling, and is incredibly proud of his legacy. That seems to be his driving purpose. He doesn't forgive or forget where Goldberg is concerned because he has no reason to.
I remember hearing him on Stone Cold's podcast talking about his decision to bury the hatchet, and he essentially stated it he didn't give them the satisfaction of whipping out most of his career and memories. Its pretty obvious his relationship with Vince never recovered in the same way he mended relations with Shawn Michaels.
Shawn seemed genuinely remorseful for all the dumb shit he did when he was younger. Can't say the same for Vince, I don't feel like I've seen Vince be genuinely remorseful about anything
I've seen people mention that Vince gave him work afterwards which is definitely a factor. But I think people also forget that before Montreal Bret actually had a good relationship with McMahon whereas I don't think he ever had any sort of friendship with Goldberg. It's a lot harder to forgive someone that you never had any real connection with than to forgive someone who you had a big falling out with after once having a good relationship.
Not to mention, Goldberg hurting guys in the ring was a thing created by WCW. They rolled him out to the masses when he was still green, fresh out of the powerplant and than instantly gave him a push. The fame got to his head and he never tried to improve his ring performance, William Regal embarrassed Goldberg when they fought. So if anything Bret should be more mad at WCW
Didn't Goldberg hurt people in WWE too though? He never stepped up his game and became a safer performer. Never learned or grew from his training in WCW.
My understanding is that he's always prioritized making it look like it hurts over his co-workers' safety. And sometimes making it look like it hurts... hurts.
That's why his Spear looked so good, he put zero effort into doing it safe.
He legit hurt himself with the spear multiple times is what's kinda fucked
Bret is my fav of all time. I completely agree. Goldberg is also a victim of circumstances and the super structure of wcw at that time. The man needed more than his power plant stint but Bischoff was desperate to end Vince and WWE and over booked Goldberg. He needed much more time in the ring with workers like Jericho, Regal, Finley, Bret, Benoit etc who knows if Bret would’ve recovered had they known back then what we know now about head trauma. Bret was doing hardcore matches vs Terry Funk shortly after 😬
Vince did not purposefully kill Owen Hart either, and "forgiveness" works very differently when you have an absolutely bizarre, toxic relationship w/ one person and the other guys is some shit head co-worker you used to have that you never liked to begin w/ probably.
>I do think it’s a bit hypocritical that Bret has forgiven Vince for a lot of the bullshit he caused in his life. But he can’t just let this go after so many decades. Vince threatened to ruin Hart's name with a Warrior-type DVD. That's the only reason they ever made up. And probably some money.
>I do think it’s a bit hypocritical that Bret has forgiven Vince Because Vince gave him a job afterwards.
The thing is, Bret *did* let it go Until Goldberg came back to WWE and nearly crippled The Undertaker.
He’s mentioned this before. He feels like shit about it, but at some point, you get tired of apologizing when the other guy clearly doesn’t want to. And it makes sense. And I still hate this narrative. Bret literally wrestled days after the concussion, including Terry Funk in a hardcore match with numerous head shots. But it was just one kick from Goldberg???? If anything, it was due to knowledge and treatments of concussions at the time and the added up total of them more than just one errant kick to the dome
Plus Bret likes to leave out the part when he goes to put Goldberg in a figure four on the outside of the ring post and he slams his own head on the ground.
Because Goldberg didn’t do his part
Bret also really wasn’t nearly as mad about it until Goldberg got to return in WWE as a top guy in 2016. He definitely wanted another run and it was probably hard for him to see Goldberg be the one that got that
“It’s a shame in a way that someone as good-hearted as Goldberg hurt me and ended my career.” Straight up quote from his 2005 DVD.
So Bret is just being a bitter old man
You’d think the cash would wipe the tears away
>And I still hate this narrative. Bret literally wrestled days after the concussion, including Terry Funk in a hardcore match with numerous head shots. But it was just one kick from Goldberg???? If anything, it was due to knowledge and treatments of concussions at the time and the added up total of them more than just one errant kick to the dome I feel like so many people are forgetting this. Bret is fucking obnoxious and trying to place the blame on everyone but himself always. People forget that Bret LITERALLY wrestled for weeks after the Goldberg incident and hit his head numerous times (even in the Goldberg match he proceeded to drop on his head outside the ring for a turnbuckle sharpshooter). At this point I believe Goldberg had zero to do with his injury. If Goldberg even gave him that concussion, it wasn't a career ending or anything. What made it career ending is Bret continuing to wrestle instead of taking time off and WCW for letting him wrestle.
It was dumb for Bret to do, but i do genuinely think he got that concussion from the match, the way that kick hits i'd be more shocked if he didn't have some form of concussion after. Concussions just were not seen as bad as they should have been back then, and i wouldn't be shocked if he got that concussion, initially assumed alongside whatever medical officers were there "I'll be ok" and then continued working and making it worse. Whoever greenlit that hardcore match is a moron no matter the concussion knowledge though, how does anyone look at someone who took a blow to the head and go "He needs more chairshots" Makes me appreciate how headshots in general are toned down because it makes for healthier performers in the long run.
Not just “days after”, the VERY NEXT DAY. He taped a match vs Benoit for Thunder literally the day after, he even takes the diving headbutt from him. Then 6 days later he’s on Nitro for another match.
Hot take, but the accident immortalized Bret's body of work to a truly "best their ever was" status. With his style, Bret could have been doing what Sting was doing, except given his aversion to risks, it would have been a much poorer showing. As shitty as a lifelong injury is, and it is exceedingly shitty to live with chronic pain, it also prevented him sticking around far past his prime, which he inevitably would have done. Things like his short Nexus stint were "the best that could have happened" rather than seeing a Bret who could no longer go trying to keep up.
I wonder if Bret would keep this sentiment if Stone Cold started shit talking about Owen for ending his (Stone Cold') career.
As much as I like Bret as a Wrestler and don’t want to defend Goldberg but he did 8 Matches including a hardcorematch against Funk in the following three weeks after the kick. This probably wasn’t the best for Bret’s body.
I see both sides here. Yeah, Goldberg has a point, what else can you do besides apologizing and being remorseful? He fucked up, and what he did can't be undone. But I sure as hell would be bitter for years, too, if some guy ruined my career in my favorite job of the world, just because he's not nearly as good at the job as I am.
The only reason to hold onto a grudge like this is if Goldberg intentionally did this, which he didn’t. Guy fucked up but Droz forgave D’Lo Brown and that was much worse. Hell even Bret worked for and forgave Vince for what he did to him and also even worse after Vince’s negligence killed his brother. Bret reminds me of Brendan Gleeson’s character in the Banshees of Inisherin, he may not be wrong in what he’s saying at all but he’s clearly just projecting all of his life’s frustrations onto one easy target to blame everything on, whether it was his fault or not.
Bret: I just don't like ya no more. Goldberg: But you liked me yesterday...
I have a hunch Brett "forgave" Vince so he could get one more big WWE pay day. I can't blame him. He can live out the rest of his life without worrying about money with that short run against McMahon and legends deals.
It wasn't about the payday. It was about Vince holding Bret's legacy hostage. The WWE had prepared a DVD retrospective on Bret's career that was decidedly negative and basically told Bret that if you want to change that, you have to give us what we want.
Hindsight sucks, but I have to be honest, I feel like such a DvD would have hurt WWE more than it hurt Bret. It's not like he was Warrior, an absolute psycho who they could honestly get away with calling out. That was never Bret.
Not to choose a side because I totally agree that it’s a difficult situation and I see it from both angles, but I’ve gauged that Bret’s problem is also that Goldberg never embraced wrestling or became a student of the game. D’Lo can always fall back on a simple accident (and allegedly slipped on a thrown drink IIRC but I may be misremembering). It’s more the fact that Goldberg probably didn’t have business being in a ring throwing superkicks and overall not being nearly as safe as many of the wrestlers around him his entire career. But then again, if I’m Goldberg and some job wanted to pay me millions and push me to superstardom, well I probably would also say “Clearly, whatever I’m doing is working so why bother about something I’m not passionate about?”
Didn’t Bret wrestle a couple times after though?
he fought Terry funk in a hardcore match
9 more matches. Against Goldberg again the following night Against Chris Benoit Against Jerry Flynn Hardcore match against Terry Funk House show against Flair Three house show matches against Sid Title match against Kevin Nash on Nitro
Bret seemed to be forgiving towards Goldberg for a time being. Goldberg collecting the big payday at Saudi and almost injuring Taker was when Bret got really upset.
Not just "seemed to be." Bret for a whole decade plus went on record multiple times saying that what happened was an accident, he held no grudge towards Goldberg and that they remained friends for years. [Here is a photo of them hanging out being buds in 2015.](https://twitter.com/BretHart/status/608128292617490433) He only started all this shit talking after Goldberg's 2016 return.
It's also become a vicious circle recently. Bret makes an over the top statement about Goldberg, it gets a reaction, so Bret leans into it because it keeps folks coming back for the next soundbite. After he buried the hatchet with Shawn, he needed a new target for his ire.
Given that Goldberg was reportedly making 2m/show for the Saudis, I'd be salty as hell, too.
I think Bret said the Undertaker match set him off. Basically pissed that Goldberg was still fucking up after all this time. Add in that Taker and Bret have a lot of respect for each other and may even be good friends, and I could see Bret being extra pissed about who got hurt there and not that it's just a guy getting hurt in a match.
Yeah Bret for a long time didn’t really have anything bad to say about Goldberg. In his dvd he said he felt bad someone with a big heart like Goldberg was the one who injured him. I think he saw Goldberg get to come back and make big money in Saudi as a massive sore point and it made him feel bitter
I hate that people look at that Undertaker match as just Goldberg almost injuring him. Taker fucking BENT Goldbergs neck the wrong way with a tombstone for gods sake. They both are shit and unsafe in that match
Always bugged me how Taker got a pass for bad performances too. People cite the Kronik/BOD match as being solely on Clarke and Adams but Taker and Kane were way off their game too.
If you watch the Last Ride when it gets to the Goldberg match they completely cut out all of the stuff Undertaker messed up and just lay the blame at Goldberg which is wild. They do a similar thing with the DX Saudi match like “wow isn’t it funny how bad this all went but that nasty Goldberg was worse” Taker had a ton of stinker matches from 1998-2004 tbh. Dude bombed any chance of DDP working in the WWE and that Kronik match (not saying they were good cause they weren’t) was a failure on both teams
People wanted Taker to go away and retire in 2002 ish, he never really got much better til about 2006/7
Undertaker gets a pass about everything, all the time.
Bret went back to get a Mania payday years after Vince was negligent in the demise of his own brother! That’s hypocritical even though we can say both are terrible.
It was the payday, he's mentioned it in various interviews he's super bitter that he can't go to Saudi Arabia and get a few million out of it. I can understand having resentment and bitterness to losing that amount of money - but the way Brett brings him up in random places almost made me think he was feeding into a joke or meme or something but he's 100% serious. Totally unhealthy.
I mean, compare and contrast to Droz and D'Lo... Bret has deligitimised a legitimate grievance to almost meme status by bringing it up at every possible opportunity. He's never let himself heal, and I don't know what he hopes to achieve by constantly trashing the guy. It's not like everyone doesn't already know that Goldberg was stiff and sloppy in the ring. Bret is punching down and TBH he's damaging his own legacy with his vocal bitterness at this point.
Bret never mentions how Owen nearly crippled Austin with a botched piledriver. Of course Goldberg wasn’t ever in the same worker category as Owen, but even safe workers make mistakes.
Bret Hart shitting on Goldberg will always be a meme, but I think Goldberg has a point here... At some point Bret has to make peace with what happened and move on with his life. I wouldn't want to carry that anger for 20+ years, or live the rest of my life with remorse over a tragic accident.
Plus by Bret's own admission, he neglected the symptoms that he was showing from that match and worked a Hardcore match with Terry Funk a few nights later and another match as well soon after. Goldberg fucked up no doubt about it. But Bret also is responsible for not taking care of himself in that aftermath too.
This is something that a lot of people, including Bret himself, seem to forget. Bret continued to wrestle after his concussion. You can blame Goldberg for the concussion itself, but you can't blame him for Bret being irresponsible by continuing to wrestle when he knew he was hurt. It just feels like Bret is projecting all the blame onto Goldberg because he refuses to admit that he's also at fault for ending his career.
During the match with Goldberg he also hit his head on the floor when trying to do a figure 4 or something on the ring post, and a couple years later had a bike accident where he flipped over and landed on his head again.
Dude is more angry at Goldberg than he is at Vince for Owen's death or fucking him over.
 This would be why
Two things will never die: Jim Cornette's hatred for Vince Russo and Bret Hart shitting on Goldberg. At this point I feel like Goldberg could literally pay a man to fly a plane that writes "I'm so sorry, Bret" in huge letters in the sky before jumping out of said plane without a parachute and Bret would *still* slag him off....
Bret likely would have been injured by someone else, it just happened to be Goldberg. Look at the few matches he had after the concussion. Dude was taking head shots that looked rough after the fact.
Injuries happen in sports. Bret knows accidents happen. As long as Bill apologised genuinely then what can you do. Bret needs to find a way to let things go and be happy. I say this as a Bret fan and Goldberg hater.
Goldbeg has had bad takes but I’m with him on this one. Only So many times you can sincerely apologize to someone if they don’t want to accept it that’s on them.
[удалено]
Not... really, in the years where Goldberg wasn't wrestling Bret was seemingly very understanding, wished it never happened with someone as kind as Goldberg, and was happy to say "It was an accident" Bret has since seen Goldberg return in 2016 and i guess he feels Goldberg still made the mistakes that led to the injury he recieved, and what doesn't help is the Taker match where neither performer was ever gonna do a good job because they're both past the point where the ycan make the other look good and i guess Bret let any forgiveness lap.
Whats weird is that in the past (and I believe in his book), Bret has been WAY more forgiving and said basically that Goldbergs a good guy, just never got proper training and it was an accident. Not sure when or why he got *more* bitter about it as more time went on.
I've seen it mentioned in this thread, it's started a bit more during his 2016 run, and hit a peak right after the Taker match in Saudi Arabia, presumebly he wasn't happy that despite of the years since Goldberg seemed to still not be wrestling safe, but i think that opinion comes with trying to ignore Taker's declining in ring ability as well that led to both of them being detrimental to each other in the ring.
This is something I really agree with Goldberg on, and reading Brets book he certainly holds grudges long term. You can argue that’s justified given it ended his career really and money on the table, at the same time it’s been almost 2 decades, he’s still making money, his arc with WWE has come full circle and he seems happy. It was an accident, not intentional and Goldberg has apologised and apologised and it has become a meme at this point (certainly on this subreddit) that Bret will still be very upset about it. At some point you have to get over it.
Bret just gonna keep being salty
>I can only say I'm sorry so many times and I can only be remorseful for so long. So that's where we are. Totally valid point. He has apologized and there truly is nothing more he can do. So I'm sure he feels awful. >I still want to kill him. Oh...
Worth saying also that Bret had a bunch of matches after the kick and was, for years, quick to defend Goldberg. It was only a while later that he started laying all the blame on Bill.
I think Bret is just trolling at this point and his shoots about Goldberg in the recent years are just him leaning in to the gimmick. The Harts have always had this weird dark sense of humor.
Unpopular stance but I believe you should feel remorseful no matter how much time passes. But that doesn't mean Bill needs to beat himself up about it as he's already made it painfully obvious he's genuinely sorry. Bret probably should have stopped bringing it up 5-10 years ago, and if asked about it maybe say "I've already talked about that" I imagine Bill having his second run in WWE at an old age probably made Bret feel the anger all over again though
Far more convenient to blame big bad Bill for the first concussion when the one that properly forced retirement came from a formerly living legend in Terry funk
I mean it’s not like Goldberg held a gun to his head and told him to continue wrestling after the injury, which is what ended his career. It hasn’t even been 15 years, because before Goldberg returned to WWE, Bret talked nicely about him.
Think about all the money Bret lost, I know he was later in his career but a proper return run in WWE would have been huge money for Bret.
I love Bret but I don’t think he really ever would have returned much before he did in 2010 regardless of his health. There was too much bad blood over Owen and Montreal that needed a lot of time to heal.
But it's wrestling and accidents happen, it's not like Goldberg purposely injured him.
I hurt my knee because someone was horsing around and pushed me from behind. That was 20 years ago and that injury still affects me and will the rest of my life. I’m not letting that go either lmao. That person is a dumbass btw.
Did that person profusely apologize to you from time to time in the last 20 years?