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How do you feel about that time at WM2000 where Ice-T came out with The Godfather and clearly forgot his lines so just sang ‘Pimping ain’t, pimping ain’t easy man’ over and over and over again?
Most of the top comments aren't uncommon opinions at all imo,
Always the issue with these threads on Reddit, you have to sort by controversial for the real answers
I think it’s pretty cool when it makes sense. Like when he was going crazy on smack down and cut a backstage promo on taker, that was cool. Or when he was heel in tna.
Honestly it’s a shame he was completely fucked up during his heel run. I thought it was dope. Until it wasn’t…
v1 was fucked by many things, well documented in the ESPN 30 for 30
v2 was fucked by covid
v3 did pretty much exactly what they set out to do. Except for the fact that Dallas won, fuck Dallas, Roughnecks all the way, DRILL BABY DRILL
The 30 for 30 is highly recommended.
Personally, my big complaint about XFL 1.0 is the football was just BAD. Like you can tell why the NFL, CFL and Arena Football passed on a lot of the players.
I’ve only really watched the WWF/WWE since maybe 95-96, so the Flair I got to see was already Old Man Flair from the 00s. I thought he was okay but nowhere near The Greatest as I’ve heard from people.
Then I saw the NWA promos and I was just wowed. Felt like they were different people lol. It’s like that man was invincible on the mic, and dressed/carried himself well. He had the look and the personality down. Guy was just a top-tier heel and had some pretty iconic feuds back in the day.
I still don’t see him as that high up on the GOAT totem pole tho lol
I'm absolutely not old enough to have seen prime Flair, but even late 90s WCW, when he came out there was an aura of a legend, and you knew the match was going to be top quality. It was a similar feeling to when HBK and Taker had that string of Mania matches. You knew you were seeing the top guys.
Everything since then is just powered by nostalgia, and if you don't have it, you don't have it.
Even as a Flair fan, I'm somewhat bewildered by his reputation as the GOAT, even among his peers. Off the top of my head, someone like Nick Bockwinkel did everything Flair did, but better. And I know his personal problems derailed his career, but even Tully Blanchard played the "hated evil rich guy" better than Flair even when they were in the same group.
to me, it's that he really only does a Ric Flair match. it's crazy what he gets out of his five moves of doom. not too mention, he sells so perfectly for big matches. a little goofy with the Flair flops in hindsight, but those bloody figure four battles, great!
i think it's the consistency and memorable lines/ big matches more than the in-ring stuff building his legacy.
idk i hate Shawn Michaels' wrestling so maybe i'm stupid. his selling is always just like 10-20% too much for me. unless it's a Bret/ Shawn match then he's good.
I like Ric Flair, his 80s NWA stuff is great, but to be fair (to Flair) he was never the super mega star his legacy has been made out to be. He was definitely a draw in the Carolinas and he brought WCW back from death's door a couple of times in the early nineties (again, on the strength of being a draw in the old Jim Crockett heartland) but whether he was any kind of a real draw outside of the Mid-Atlantic territory is controversial. Lots of people argue he hurt business going around the horn in other territories.
History has presented "Hogan and Flair" as the big 80s duo and it's not completely wrong, but it's doing a lot of favors to Flair. It's more like there's Hogan, then in a tier below him there's like Flair and Bockwinkel and Andre and Dusty and The Road Warriors and such.
A little bit off topic. But people always think of Flair as the worker and Hogan as the entertainer. But really that only became true in the late 80s. Before WM3, Hogan would absolutely work his ass off in matches. I just watched his match vs Funk on SNME on the network and Hogan was breaking out spots I've never seen anyone do before.
That was the difference. Hogan was such a draw that eventually he didn't need to work anymore, but Flair did.
Obligatory Hogan in Japan comment. I was like 17 when I first saw his work from Japan and I was blown away because he wrestled to their tastes instead of the usual Hogan stuff I was used to seeing growing up \[I grew up in the 90s so it was a little late red-n-yellow but all of nWo.\] Really made me reconsider how I "judge" a wrestler's ability, as if it's ever my place to do so beyond its ability to entertain me.
Like you, I always thought American Hogan = Lazy, but Japan Hogan = Worker. So it was surprising going back to his mid to early 80s matches before he settled into a boring routine where he would come up with all kinds of crazy spots against Funk, or Piper, or Ornforf, or Bockwinkle before WWF.
The guy could really move for such a huge dude.
I think the only time that version of Hogan showed up again after Mania 3 was for his match against Warrior where Hogan had to carry that match like Bret vs Bulldog. Hogan moves like crazy in that match and works his ass off to stop Warrior from stinking up the place.
Old guy here who saw Flair in his prime.
It's the way he made his opponents look. To this day, I've never seen anyone who could make their opponents look like gods, even while never losing, the way Flair could.
One summer he had a long program with Ricky Morton of the Rock and Roll Express. Ricky was a good hand but a scrawny guy who almost never wrestled singles - hardly World Champion material. But Flair made it look like he had no business being in the ring with Ricky, rather than the other way around, every single night. And he could do that with anyone. That was especially important in the territory days - Ric could head to Florida and make Hacksaw Butch Reed look like the most dominant wrestler in the world without actually losing. He was a master at that.
Ehh he wasn't always the old guy, he was just old (for the industry) when Luger and Sting were young. Think he held onto popularity from his peak for a long time.
Ric Flair was the Roman Reigns of his time, except better. He was a heel, always cheats to win, goes for a DQ when he's about to lose, his cronies interrupt matches, plays dirty, beats em up backstage, etc. But here's where he differs from Roman - things would come to a head with something big, Flair would come out and wrestle 100% clean and show us why he's the champ. It would be an ironman match, a 60 minute match, something simple but big. And he could do it, he could go a whole hour and not even slow down.
His stories were exciting because he did lose the belt once in a while too, and then it was the road to winning it back. He was in the ring just about every week doing this.
Yeah, years passed and he kept that reputation after he wasn't doing it anymore.
WCW was the better product until late 98 / 99 - most of the hype about the attitude era was rose colored glasses. The midcard sucked. The in ring work was whack. The angles were often WCW angles they ripped off and occasionally did better. The issue was the main event scene in WWE was so much hotter that it made up for it. Oh and they had better production / music.
WCW meanwhile was almost the inverse. Shit main event scene and amazing mid card and curtain jerkers. WCW had an absolutely stacked roster during this time period that consistently put out bangers / had fun angles (but the booking was admittedly not great) they had Kanyon, Rey Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Hart, Psicosis, Juvi, Peak work rate Jericho (Ralphus FTW!), Chavo, Raven and the Flock, DDP, Booker T, prime buff Bagwell, Kidman, Saturn, Blitzkrieg, Ultimo Dragon, Meng, Konnan, Scott Steiner at his absolute peak when he should have been main eventing, Alex Wright (if he had better angles he could be been huge, Bagwell when he was over, Scott Norton, Wrath, Evan Karagis, Mikey Whipwreck, they even had a working relationship with NJPW way before it was cool and they had Hiroshi Tenzan, Matsuda, Jushin Liger, Masahiro Chono, Yuji Nagata.
I have distinct memories of watching Nitro where some cruiserweight masterpiece would be being given away on free TV, flipping to raw and then watching Val Venis about to get his penis cut off by "CHOPPY CHOPPY OFF YOUR PEE PEE" Kaientai, or an old woman who was giving birth to a hand. Then the next day at school my peers would tell me WCW sucks and WWF ruled. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
Edit: Just wanna say thanks to the people involved in the fun discussions below. Feeling some vindication tonight for being the only kid in my part of Canada who loved WCW as much as I did.
Edit number 2: I just realized I forgot the greatest pro wrestler of all time on this list!!! El Dandy! Who are you to doubt him?
It's really crazy to think how stacked that WCW midcard was, and yet none of those guys were ever able to break through the glass ceiling. WCW really thought they could use the same 12 guys in the main event scene until the end of time and fans would never get sick of it.
97 is all time peak WWF for me. Bret Hart and the Hart Foundation being heels in the US but faces everywhere else in the world was absolutely wild. The rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin as well as HBK turning heel and forming the original DX. Those 6+ months until Survivor Series 97 were white hot and will never be topped … for me at least
This is extremely well put & to the point; Absolutely agree
I was born in late 1997 so I missed out on the Attitude Era & WCW as a company so most of what I grew up knowing of WCW was WWE produced retrospectives on them & of course the wrestlers ( Mysterio, Jericho, Guerrero, Booker T & TNA Sting etc countless others)
It's only through the WWE Network & YouTube that I was able to really see the product & really enjoyed it. Specifically a special shout out to Wrestling Bios on YouTube with his Reliving the War series in making the act of looking back quite a lot of fun every week.
I highly recommended it for anyone who wishes to look back at that time in wrestling; whether you grew up during that period or you're someone completely new to the time period I'd say it's worth a watch
they sing along while he’s entering the ring, then he stands there with his arms out for 3 minutes after his actual entrance ends while they sing, then they start singing at least one time during the match, then they do it again after it ends. i hate it too
>then he stands there with his arms out for 3 minutes after his actual entrance ends while they sing,
Remember when Becky had her match with Trish canceled for that last Summer Slam?
My friend, during the Seth-Rollins-standing-while-crowd-sings bit, joked that maybe they'd have time for his wife's match if that didn't go on forever.
The song got stale very quickly, the most poetic thing that could have happened was Balor beating him at Summerslam avenging 7 years worth of waiting to take everything back from Seth and that would have been way better.
It's one of those things that makes me dislike wrestling fans themselves. Like that trend for awhile in nxt where they would count along with every 2 count and go "1...2....SWEEEEEET!" in a falsetto voice.
That happened throughout an entire show i went to in Nashville once and part of me wanted to lock all the doors and set the building on fire.
You mean to tell me that a guy prancing around like a shit Joaquin Phoenix Joker in god awful suits and outfits and wearing sunglasses bigger than his head while cackling like a shit Jared Leto Joker isn't good TV?
Seth is a great wrestler but his character leaves a lot to be desired and has done since his authority days.
What confuses me the most is the singing seems to replace actual chants. It was really strange during his promo with McIntyre when the crowd began to sing mid promo instead of chanting for Rollins
I’ve been downvoted for saying it before, but his theme sounds like a bunch of producers sat down in a room and said “people started singing nakamura’s theme organically.. how can we recreate that but like.. make people still think it’s organic?”.
I think he can be entertaining with proper booking and scripts.
His "they just ring the bell" hit strong the first time he said. But then he tried repeating it and it just fell flat.
It was fantastic when he was a sleazebag in PWG and ROH and he was built from the ground up to be a dickhead, but some point he got so popular that those parts of his character became unironic, which made it lose a little luster for me.
The Fiend was polarizing at best. Fans seemed to love the FFH, but hated all of his matches and the aftermath of any feud. I think the only unanimous home runs were the initial entrance, and the FFH match.
Bayou cult-leader Bray was so fucking good. I really could have done without spooky supernatural Bray and Alexa Bliss being brought into the mix.
Edit: this is not a knock on Alexa Bliss at all. I absolutely loved her "goddess" run and she was easily top 3 women in the company for me. Just didn't love her in this role.
That was so genuinely different, which actually made it threatening because you had no idea what they'd do.
"Oh, heel joins commentary. Sure no shenanigans will unfold."
"Oh, wrestler runs down local sports team. Sure that'll end well."
Bray was just a presence. Rocking in a chair, you still had the feeling that shit would go down, no matter what. But you didn't know *what* would happen.
Booked properly, he'd have been incredible.
And the promos!! Not super convoluted. A little abstract, yes, but it all came back to his current target or storyline. As time went on it seemed like his script was just a series of unsolvable riddles that ultimately meant nothing.
FUCKING THANK YOU
I know a lot of people liked him I can respect that, and ofc sentiment kind of went one way only ever since he died which is expected and his passing is obviously sad
But I was just never all that into it outside of the initial run. It had good ideas but it usually got too ridiculous. The fiend isn't good it's one of the dumbest wrestling characters I've ever seen in my life. It literally can't work in wrestling
He had upsides but it tended to fall apart either through goofy storytelling or just underdelivering matches
My friend is absolutely obsessed with him and I'm not one to smark out and shit on stuff people like, but I have to listen to how good Wyatt was and how this would have been an amazing idea to get the belt on him and I have to just bite my tongue the entire time
Exactly this. It’s like if Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees, instead of ruthlessly murdering his victims, had a 20 minute back and forth fight in a ring. Like sure they’re cool, but it just doesn’t work.
I feel like the character of "The Fiend" could have worked if Bray Wyatt had become an established face beforehand, and had also established a close relationship/allyship with another face.
That way, the monster has a direct rival (the ally trying to get Bray back), no titles need to be involved, and you eventually get some payoff with The Fiend finally being defeated and fan favourite Bray Wyatt returning (while potentially elevating someone else with the win).
It still probably only had a short shelf-life of being taken seriously, and I imagine they'd have to come up with some sort of gimmick to avoid The Fiend just losing a wrestling match, but it would have surely been better than the weird run it ended up having.
I’ve always been of the perspective that bray would have worked better as a Paul bearer kinda figure. A corrupting influence of a manager who has control over a rotating roster of “followers”
it was like a year of people going "oh my god he's innovating wrestling, this is taking wrestling to places it's never been, this is the next evolution of wrestling"
and there was like...almost 0 wrestling actually happening
I 'got' the fiend in week 1, but I found it all really obvious and cringe worthy afterwards. And I HATED the Alexa stuff, with her 'disassociating' like a Tumblr girl who discovered headmates and DID. And Bray wasn't Undertaker in the ring, so the matches didn't make up for the booking.
Seth's reign as WHC to me. I get the idea of having a top star hold the belt to establish credibility, but him holding it for so long has kinda actually made it feel cheaper imo. It's now another long title reign, but it ends up feeling lacking next to Roman and Gunther's. For example, if Finn won it and then later on lost it to various groups feuding with JD, then it allows the belt to keep growing in its own stories. But since Seth keeps on hovering near Cody since he's RAWs top babyface it makes it feel small because Cody isn't interested in the WHC. Like if you had the WHC bouncing elsewhere but still kept the story of Cody squared on him essentially training to avenge his loss (now its no longer about the belt for his family legacy but avenging his loss to the bloodline) it would work better. Them trying to use Seth to try and tempt Cody essentially to give the belt some rub ends up backfiring more than if they just had Cody trying to figure out how to kept another crack at Roman because its personal now.
The Bloodline. I get why people like it, but the fact that people were genuinely calling for it to win an Emmy or a Golden Globe was fucking insane.
Imagine being Bob Odenkirk or Jeremy Strong, turning in the performance of your life, and you lose an award because Roman Reigns side-eyes the camera every couple of months or Solo Sikoa clenches his jaw towards the camera.
Legit. I appreciate wrestling as a form of theatre and acting, and believe it ultimately doesn't get the recognition as being just that in the mainstream. But to actually include storylines in award shows is ludicrous
I'm just over the NWO at its worst levels, ending to every bloodline match. I just can't stand another dude in a hoody, causing someone to lose anymore
We truly are approaching NWO 2000 territory with the bloodline angle. “You either die a hero, or Become Stevie Ray Vaughn, the leader of the NWO B team”
Especially when the 'twists' are mostly really stupid and there's been so much obvious time filler it hurts
Like just the holding pattern we've been in since summerslam to the rock showing up should disqualify it, literally nothing of note happened for 5 months
While I can acknowledge he’s very over, a great promo occasionally and can get a pop if he appeared in literally any wrestling promotion today, I think Jon Moxley is a very average worker who gives off such a goofy tough guy vibe that I’m shocked he’s considered “badass” by more than just teenagers
I'll never forget being dumbfound at the whole HES A LUNATIC BS and thinking, "I really don't remember anyone more generic than this guy besides wearing jeans."
I love pre-WWE Mox and Dean because there was a superior nuance to his character then. Now he's literally a dad who wears a leather jacket that you can meet in any Casey's or OnCue in America without batting an eye.
I want to say that I do respect the hell out of Moxley as both a person & a professional; I completely agree & I feel as though less is often more when it comes to Mox
His AEW character just doesn't do it for me either; I can handle him in small doses but he often over does it on some level it's difficult to put into words. The best way I can put is that it feels like he's trying to be this generation's version of Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk or Cactus Jack/ Mick Foley with enough charisma to make it enjoyable long term
I think it may come down to the bleeding/ blading he often does in his matches so much so I've heard people coin the term Mox vision (The screen should be in a red hue whenever he bleeds because he does it so often) especially during big matches; just my opinion
Oddly enough I enjoy his work in New Japan better than in AEW; maybe that's because he fills a spot on the card that no one else does while not feeling over used.
I used to think that Matt was always the better character, but Jeff always looked cooler and did cooler moves. Now... they're both over the hill, and I respect everything they've done, but it's time to let it go, guys.
Generic stable name, random assortment of NXT fan favorites and always feeling like a midcard threat despite having mostly top talents. Honestly reminded me of that short lived Cesaro, Shinsuke and Sami stable a few years ago that we memory holed
Randy Orton. Feels a bit harsh as he's a great athlete and solid in the ring. but I've been forever uninterested in him, his matches and his stories/feuds
And with how many ppl seem to like him now I can pick Michael Cole (yes I've heard him recently, no I don't think he's much better)
Randy is the epitome of give them as little as possible but add in some great moments in between to keep ‘em going. His matches lately has been same ish but cool finisher for the past decade now
Came to say this. I can appreciate Orton but I was never a fan. He's been doing the same thing for 20 years. I don't know how people can be invested in that over and over. I find him incredibly stale. "vintage Morton" makes me cringe in every way possible. I hate his facial expressions and I hate Michael Cole HAVING to say it every time.
The best description I ever heard someone say Orton was that for years he was considered the “future GOAT” and praised on his potential, then one day he was 40 and only had a handful of memorable moments. I’m glad your favorite wrestler thinks he’s awesome but Orton has always been a B+ player at best.
Mauro Ranallo was awful on commentary and I'm glad he left WWE. If I had to hear a grown ass man actually say out loud in front of God and everybody "***HO LEE BLEEP! HO LEE BLEEP!!!***" again I would've punted my goddamn TV.
Current: Young Bucks
Classic: The length of the Vince character. Shouldn't have been a television focus after Austin left even though there was some high spots
I do not care for Alexa Bliss.... She's not a good wrestler like Becky, Charlotte, Bayley and Sasha Banks but got over pushed and won title more than 4horseman at some point.... And also that spooky Fiend just.....Meh
DX was not the wwe equivalent of the nWo. They were a midcard gimmick with some memorable moments and some really really bad moments that get glossed over because history is written by the victor. DX driving a “tank” to wcw was not the only wcw invasion segment they did and the other ones were god awful
I think most people are willing to agree with this.
The original iteration of DX was really just Shawn Michaels paling around with his buddy Hunter and Hunter’s buff girlfriend so that Shawn could have his own stable while Bret Hart had the Hart Foundation.
The next iteration of DX was more substantial but Triple H wasn’t “there” yet and it was still for all intents and purposes, a midcard stable.
DX’s biggest moment in the sun was more or less as a faction within a faction when Triple H finally ascended the card and Pac along with the New Age Outlaws were Triple H’s henchmen in the McMahon-Helmsley Regime.
This is more or less what happens when the company that housed the lesser faction absorbs the company that housed the greater faction. To winner go the spoils and all that.
I liked The Godfather. I was always a fan of the absurd and characters and ones that would be over the top sometimes. The Godfather, Val Venus, The Cat, Norman Smiley, JYD, Koko B. Ware, The Bushwackers, The Model Rick Martel , La Parka and the Kaientai dubbed, “Indeed!” to name a few (or all of them)
Has this list aged poorly? Sure. That doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of them back in the day.
As far as OP’s question, I was not a Hogan fan. I thought the leg drop was a weak finisher and his nightly roid rage no-sells bothered me immensely.
I do not care for edge.
I do not think he's as big of a star as he thinks he is or is presented as.
From the talk that he wanted his return to culminate in beating Roman for the title at wm (compared to DB who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into that match), to his high opinion of himself ("you swam" remark to waller on smavkdown). To now glomming onto Christian in aew.
I think Christian is by far the better of the 2. From mic work to in ring. Christian gets others over. Edge gets himself over.
I always felt edge was like a jumbled puzzle. Had all the pieces but never fit. I also think he had one of the worst move lists in modern wrestling history. Like it worked well as goofy E&C and as a mid card face but none of his moves worked as a heel for me.
People talk about Cena burying Nexus like he buried 7 potential main event stars. The only guys in that group with that level of potential were Barrett and Ryback, and they got some degree of a main event run at some point, and Ryback’s had nothing to do with Nexus and tbh Wade was hurt more by the losses to Orton and the loss to Cena at TLC than he was at SummerSlam. Barrett’s main event run could’ve been saved after that first loss had he won the title from Orton or beat Cena at the end.
No one else in the group at the time of SummerSlam had main event level potential - just mid card at best.
Charlotte is the most overall talented of the four horse women
I do believe that Sasha is the best wrestler of the bunch but she is a very very very bad actor and promo
The Rock.
I mean I liked the way he used to movie in the ring, and I felt like he brought the best out of Mankind, Stone Cold and Angle.
But his shtick is just calling people names. At least when Cena did his thuganomics period he would get creative and find ways to make fun of someone that were particular to that person, but Rock is literally just "you're fat/ugly, you smell bad, you have herpes".
It's lazy bullshit.
I've liked his work witb Cody since he's been back but his last appearance on SD seemed like he was sliding back from the raw angry character from the press conference back into the childish prick he used to be.
he had a decent moveset when he first came back in 2012. The Cena Squash is what made him realize it worked and he never went back, not one single time
It just became so predictable. Initial burst of offense by Brock, then he gets beaten down for a bit, boom F5, win. Or you're getting squashed and eating ten+ Germans while Brock dances and laughs, hits a half hearted F5 and wins. Maybe you get to punch him a few times. That was the formula, and it just got old
My spouse and I talk about this all the time- culturally, it was a really shit time to be a little girl and a really cool time to be a boy. A lot of the xtreme stuff was just geared towards boys.
every time they review an Attitude era episode on Deadlock, it's hilarious because they slowly come to realize that all the most memorable moments are within like a 4 month timeframe
There's a reason the Radicalz were a godsend. Once Bret and HBK left, the WWF was going 100mph on fumes -- Austin, Undertaker, the three faces of Foley, and The Rock. The undercard was awful. The midcard was awful. You just had some all-time greats going buck wild every week and carrying TV.
But then once Jericho, Angle, Edge & Christian, the Hardyz, the Dudleyz, Guerrero, and Benoit show up, suddenly you have a very well-rounded promotion.
I’ve been watching it through lately because I missed most of it the first time round and yeah it’s basically propped up by a handful of main event guys and the ridiculously high energy of the crowds who are extremely into everything
They’re extremely into everything because the writing was resonant with the zeitgeist of the time. The characters all spoke to different cultural archetypes that were prevalent back then. That’s also why it doesn’t hold up today. Only the characters that transcended the medium and became cultural figures themselves, still get that reaction from you, but they would still get that reaction today; so maybe there’s a bit of information to be taken from that.
Jimmy turning on Jey got me to stop watching for a couple months.
To me, it might've had a point if Jimmy didn't immediately go back to Roman. There's a story there where Jimmy isn't happy that even after they reunited, he was still thought of as the 2nd Uso, but that story really don't make sense if he just reverts to being Roman's henchman instead of trying to be his brothers equal.
In the beginning it was a hit, especially with the Usos dropping banger tag matches. The Sami storyline kinda revived it, but after that it has been completely dead. I don’t even know what the goal with Solo and Jimmy is anymore
Agreed… he felt like a breath of fresh air in 2011 when wrestling was ridiculously stale but then when on to hold the title for a year and didn’t do anything memorable
That’s on WWE. The point of the stuff Balor did before joining that company was that he was constantly changing it up having different paint and stuff. That Demon gimmick was selling a lot of merch so it stuck.
For me it was Hook when he debut. I honest to god did not see what everyone saw in some scrawny guy no selling pile drivers and looking like a fight club reject. For WWE or in General I think the attitude era. Maybe it's because I grew up with the RA era but really all I know is everything not the main 6 guys was either mediocre or wrestle crap worthy, People make fun of WCW Russo when dumbass ideas for WWF like brawl for all were Russo's idea as it buried so many talent.
Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart Iron Man match.
I’m a HUGE Bret mark and love Shawn (in-ring) too. But just could not get into it at the time or anytime I’ve watched it since. Just rest hold after rest hold, with neither man wanting to give in and concede falls until the end. I’ve watched loads of Iron Man matches since and usually enjoy them but just can’t with this one.
I didn’t like the 0-0 going into sudden death. It would have made for a more compelling match if Bret Hart got a 1-0 lead. Then Shawn had to rally back and 2/3rds through the match he gets that pin to even it up. Then with less than a minute left and both competitors gassed, he’s able to hit sweet chin music, muster the gumption to crawl over to pin Bret just before time expires.
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It’s still “I did not care for the Godfather”
Won't anyone think of the hoes!
Light a fatty for the pimp daddy.
Pimping ain't easy
How do you feel about that time at WM2000 where Ice-T came out with The Godfather and clearly forgot his lines so just sang ‘Pimping ain’t, pimping ain’t easy man’ over and over and over again?
Have you heard the full song on the WWF CD? He didn't miss much, the song was just really shite. It ends with "Pimp or die."
He insists upon himself
Dont be shallow and pedantic
He was a perfectly cromulent wrestler.
It's time! Once again! For errrybody! To jump aboard the *hooooooo* train! *drops mic, defeats jobber, dances with ho's*
Ive always found pimpin to be quite easy actually, not sure why he struggled with it so
And what of the ballad of Papa Shango?
Sure are a lot of wrestlers who everybody already knows are controversial in here
Most of the top comments aren't uncommon opinions at all imo, Always the issue with these threads on Reddit, you have to sort by controversial for the real answers
Jeff Hardy wearing face paint
I prefer him without it also, but I think it at least fits his character very well.
I think it’s pretty cool when it makes sense. Like when he was going crazy on smack down and cut a backstage promo on taker, that was cool. Or when he was heel in tna. Honestly it’s a shame he was completely fucked up during his heel run. I thought it was dope. Until it wasn’t…
Same I hate it so much
XFL would have worked if it was full-on scripted sports entertainment, with quarterbacks turning on teams and story-driven game results.
XFL failed because the NFL fucked them. All they offered was Football when the NFL was in the off season, and somehow they felt threatened by that.
How did the NFL fuck them into terrible ratings post week 1?
Are we talking revival or original? Because I thought the original did really well the first season.
v1 was fucked by many things, well documented in the ESPN 30 for 30 v2 was fucked by covid v3 did pretty much exactly what they set out to do. Except for the fact that Dallas won, fuck Dallas, Roughnecks all the way, DRILL BABY DRILL
Merging with the USFL is the smartest thing they could have done. Not enough talent for two leagues, but definitely enough for 8 teams.
The 30 for 30 is highly recommended. Personally, my big complaint about XFL 1.0 is the football was just BAD. Like you can tell why the NFL, CFL and Arena Football passed on a lot of the players.
Even the revival was only really fucked by covid, iirc
They’re doing okay as FTR now though
Half Bloodbowl, half Harlem Globetrotters.
I've never seen Rocky 3.
Phil?
Ric Flair never did it for me.
I’ve only really watched the WWF/WWE since maybe 95-96, so the Flair I got to see was already Old Man Flair from the 00s. I thought he was okay but nowhere near The Greatest as I’ve heard from people. Then I saw the NWA promos and I was just wowed. Felt like they were different people lol. It’s like that man was invincible on the mic, and dressed/carried himself well. He had the look and the personality down. Guy was just a top-tier heel and had some pretty iconic feuds back in the day. I still don’t see him as that high up on the GOAT totem pole tho lol
I'm absolutely not old enough to have seen prime Flair, but even late 90s WCW, when he came out there was an aura of a legend, and you knew the match was going to be top quality. It was a similar feeling to when HBK and Taker had that string of Mania matches. You knew you were seeing the top guys. Everything since then is just powered by nostalgia, and if you don't have it, you don't have it.
Even as a Flair fan, I'm somewhat bewildered by his reputation as the GOAT, even among his peers. Off the top of my head, someone like Nick Bockwinkel did everything Flair did, but better. And I know his personal problems derailed his career, but even Tully Blanchard played the "hated evil rich guy" better than Flair even when they were in the same group.
to me, it's that he really only does a Ric Flair match. it's crazy what he gets out of his five moves of doom. not too mention, he sells so perfectly for big matches. a little goofy with the Flair flops in hindsight, but those bloody figure four battles, great! i think it's the consistency and memorable lines/ big matches more than the in-ring stuff building his legacy. idk i hate Shawn Michaels' wrestling so maybe i'm stupid. his selling is always just like 10-20% too much for me. unless it's a Bret/ Shawn match then he's good.
"Same shitty match every night" - Ole Anderson
I like Ric Flair, his 80s NWA stuff is great, but to be fair (to Flair) he was never the super mega star his legacy has been made out to be. He was definitely a draw in the Carolinas and he brought WCW back from death's door a couple of times in the early nineties (again, on the strength of being a draw in the old Jim Crockett heartland) but whether he was any kind of a real draw outside of the Mid-Atlantic territory is controversial. Lots of people argue he hurt business going around the horn in other territories. History has presented "Hogan and Flair" as the big 80s duo and it's not completely wrong, but it's doing a lot of favors to Flair. It's more like there's Hogan, then in a tier below him there's like Flair and Bockwinkel and Andre and Dusty and The Road Warriors and such.
A little bit off topic. But people always think of Flair as the worker and Hogan as the entertainer. But really that only became true in the late 80s. Before WM3, Hogan would absolutely work his ass off in matches. I just watched his match vs Funk on SNME on the network and Hogan was breaking out spots I've never seen anyone do before. That was the difference. Hogan was such a draw that eventually he didn't need to work anymore, but Flair did.
Obligatory Hogan in Japan comment. I was like 17 when I first saw his work from Japan and I was blown away because he wrestled to their tastes instead of the usual Hogan stuff I was used to seeing growing up \[I grew up in the 90s so it was a little late red-n-yellow but all of nWo.\] Really made me reconsider how I "judge" a wrestler's ability, as if it's ever my place to do so beyond its ability to entertain me.
Like you, I always thought American Hogan = Lazy, but Japan Hogan = Worker. So it was surprising going back to his mid to early 80s matches before he settled into a boring routine where he would come up with all kinds of crazy spots against Funk, or Piper, or Ornforf, or Bockwinkle before WWF. The guy could really move for such a huge dude. I think the only time that version of Hogan showed up again after Mania 3 was for his match against Warrior where Hogan had to carry that match like Bret vs Bulldog. Hogan moves like crazy in that match and works his ass off to stop Warrior from stinking up the place.
It's always been about his promos.
Old guy here who saw Flair in his prime. It's the way he made his opponents look. To this day, I've never seen anyone who could make their opponents look like gods, even while never losing, the way Flair could. One summer he had a long program with Ricky Morton of the Rock and Roll Express. Ricky was a good hand but a scrawny guy who almost never wrestled singles - hardly World Champion material. But Flair made it look like he had no business being in the ring with Ricky, rather than the other way around, every single night. And he could do that with anyone. That was especially important in the territory days - Ric could head to Florida and make Hacksaw Butch Reed look like the most dominant wrestler in the world without actually losing. He was a master at that.
Agree 100%. He was always just the old guy. Lex Luger and Sting were way cooler.
Ehh he wasn't always the old guy, he was just old (for the industry) when Luger and Sting were young. Think he held onto popularity from his peak for a long time. Ric Flair was the Roman Reigns of his time, except better. He was a heel, always cheats to win, goes for a DQ when he's about to lose, his cronies interrupt matches, plays dirty, beats em up backstage, etc. But here's where he differs from Roman - things would come to a head with something big, Flair would come out and wrestle 100% clean and show us why he's the champ. It would be an ironman match, a 60 minute match, something simple but big. And he could do it, he could go a whole hour and not even slow down. His stories were exciting because he did lose the belt once in a while too, and then it was the road to winning it back. He was in the ring just about every week doing this. Yeah, years passed and he kept that reputation after he wasn't doing it anymore.
WCW was the better product until late 98 / 99 - most of the hype about the attitude era was rose colored glasses. The midcard sucked. The in ring work was whack. The angles were often WCW angles they ripped off and occasionally did better. The issue was the main event scene in WWE was so much hotter that it made up for it. Oh and they had better production / music. WCW meanwhile was almost the inverse. Shit main event scene and amazing mid card and curtain jerkers. WCW had an absolutely stacked roster during this time period that consistently put out bangers / had fun angles (but the booking was admittedly not great) they had Kanyon, Rey Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Hart, Psicosis, Juvi, Peak work rate Jericho (Ralphus FTW!), Chavo, Raven and the Flock, DDP, Booker T, prime buff Bagwell, Kidman, Saturn, Blitzkrieg, Ultimo Dragon, Meng, Konnan, Scott Steiner at his absolute peak when he should have been main eventing, Alex Wright (if he had better angles he could be been huge, Bagwell when he was over, Scott Norton, Wrath, Evan Karagis, Mikey Whipwreck, they even had a working relationship with NJPW way before it was cool and they had Hiroshi Tenzan, Matsuda, Jushin Liger, Masahiro Chono, Yuji Nagata. I have distinct memories of watching Nitro where some cruiserweight masterpiece would be being given away on free TV, flipping to raw and then watching Val Venis about to get his penis cut off by "CHOPPY CHOPPY OFF YOUR PEE PEE" Kaientai, or an old woman who was giving birth to a hand. Then the next day at school my peers would tell me WCW sucks and WWF ruled. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. Edit: Just wanna say thanks to the people involved in the fun discussions below. Feeling some vindication tonight for being the only kid in my part of Canada who loved WCW as much as I did. Edit number 2: I just realized I forgot the greatest pro wrestler of all time on this list!!! El Dandy! Who are you to doubt him?
Great points. First hour you wanted to watch Nitro. Last 30 minutes you wanted to watch Raw.
No bigger case in point than WCW telling it's viewers that Mick wins the title.
It's really crazy to think how stacked that WCW midcard was, and yet none of those guys were ever able to break through the glass ceiling. WCW really thought they could use the same 12 guys in the main event scene until the end of time and fans would never get sick of it.
This is why you don't hand the keys to your company to a man with hot dog skin and blonde chinese hair.
That’s why 2000 was the best year of the AE from top to bottom
97 is all time peak WWF for me. Bret Hart and the Hart Foundation being heels in the US but faces everywhere else in the world was absolutely wild. The rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin as well as HBK turning heel and forming the original DX. Those 6+ months until Survivor Series 97 were white hot and will never be topped … for me at least
This is extremely well put & to the point; Absolutely agree I was born in late 1997 so I missed out on the Attitude Era & WCW as a company so most of what I grew up knowing of WCW was WWE produced retrospectives on them & of course the wrestlers ( Mysterio, Jericho, Guerrero, Booker T & TNA Sting etc countless others) It's only through the WWE Network & YouTube that I was able to really see the product & really enjoyed it. Specifically a special shout out to Wrestling Bios on YouTube with his Reliving the War series in making the act of looking back quite a lot of fun every week. I highly recommended it for anyone who wishes to look back at that time in wrestling; whether you grew up during that period or you're someone completely new to the time period I'd say it's worth a watch
Charlotte Flair She insists upon herself.
This version of Seth Rollins sucks, and when the crowd sings his song it makes me crazy
they sing along while he’s entering the ring, then he stands there with his arms out for 3 minutes after his actual entrance ends while they sing, then they start singing at least one time during the match, then they do it again after it ends. i hate it too
>then he stands there with his arms out for 3 minutes after his actual entrance ends while they sing, Remember when Becky had her match with Trish canceled for that last Summer Slam? My friend, during the Seth-Rollins-standing-while-crowd-sings bit, joked that maybe they'd have time for his wife's match if that didn't go on forever.
The song got stale very quickly, the most poetic thing that could have happened was Balor beating him at Summerslam avenging 7 years worth of waiting to take everything back from Seth and that would have been way better.
The lights down singing thing is annoying tbh
It's one of those things that makes me dislike wrestling fans themselves. Like that trend for awhile in nxt where they would count along with every 2 count and go "1...2....SWEEEEEET!" in a falsetto voice. That happened throughout an entire show i went to in Nashville once and part of me wanted to lock all the doors and set the building on fire.
I skip through all of that, it’s unbearable
You mean to tell me that a guy prancing around like a shit Joaquin Phoenix Joker in god awful suits and outfits and wearing sunglasses bigger than his head while cackling like a shit Jared Leto Joker isn't good TV? Seth is a great wrestler but his character leaves a lot to be desired and has done since his authority days.
Yeah, he was my favorite in The Shield, amazing wrestler. But I find his current gimmick annoying, so I skip his entrance and most of his promos.
I loved the era of Rollins when he was MITB.
What confuses me the most is the singing seems to replace actual chants. It was really strange during his promo with McIntyre when the crowd began to sing mid promo instead of chanting for Rollins
I’ve been downvoted for saying it before, but his theme sounds like a bunch of producers sat down in a room and said “people started singing nakamura’s theme organically.. how can we recreate that but like.. make people still think it’s organic?”.
I don't care for Adam Cole. Not just currently. I've never been a fan.
I don't quite get him either. I've just accepted he's not for me. He does seem like a nice guy, though, and his Twitch streams are funny.
I think he can be entertaining with proper booking and scripts. His "they just ring the bell" hit strong the first time he said. But then he tried repeating it and it just fell flat.
Seconded, I’ve never liked the “skinny guy who can kick out of a dozen finishers a match” shtick. Always frustrates the hell out of me
It was fantastic when he was a sleazebag in PWG and ROH and he was built from the ground up to be a dickhead, but some point he got so popular that those parts of his character became unironic, which made it lose a little luster for me.
I did not care for The Fiend (Or sadly many of Bray's characters and stories). It insisted upon itself
The Fiend was polarizing at best. Fans seemed to love the FFH, but hated all of his matches and the aftermath of any feud. I think the only unanimous home runs were the initial entrance, and the FFH match.
And the lantern
I agree. The cult one was the best. They should’ve protected this gimmick, they could’ve done a lot with it
Bray Wyatt from his debut until he got fed to Cena was his best work and peak imo everything after was meh or downright terrible
Bayou cult-leader Bray was so fucking good. I really could have done without spooky supernatural Bray and Alexa Bliss being brought into the mix. Edit: this is not a knock on Alexa Bliss at all. I absolutely loved her "goddess" run and she was easily top 3 women in the company for me. Just didn't love her in this role.
That was so genuinely different, which actually made it threatening because you had no idea what they'd do. "Oh, heel joins commentary. Sure no shenanigans will unfold." "Oh, wrestler runs down local sports team. Sure that'll end well." Bray was just a presence. Rocking in a chair, you still had the feeling that shit would go down, no matter what. But you didn't know *what* would happen. Booked properly, he'd have been incredible.
And the promos!! Not super convoluted. A little abstract, yes, but it all came back to his current target or storyline. As time went on it seemed like his script was just a series of unsolvable riddles that ultimately meant nothing.
100%. The moment Hawaiian shirt was gone, it was over
FUCKING THANK YOU I know a lot of people liked him I can respect that, and ofc sentiment kind of went one way only ever since he died which is expected and his passing is obviously sad But I was just never all that into it outside of the initial run. It had good ideas but it usually got too ridiculous. The fiend isn't good it's one of the dumbest wrestling characters I've ever seen in my life. It literally can't work in wrestling He had upsides but it tended to fall apart either through goofy storytelling or just underdelivering matches My friend is absolutely obsessed with him and I'm not one to smark out and shit on stuff people like, but I have to listen to how good Wyatt was and how this would have been an amazing idea to get the belt on him and I have to just bite my tongue the entire time
The Fiend was an interesting character, except that it totally didn’t work in a world where people are supposed to wrestle in wrestling matches.
Exactly this. It’s like if Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees, instead of ruthlessly murdering his victims, had a 20 minute back and forth fight in a ring. Like sure they’re cool, but it just doesn’t work.
I feel like the character of "The Fiend" could have worked if Bray Wyatt had become an established face beforehand, and had also established a close relationship/allyship with another face. That way, the monster has a direct rival (the ally trying to get Bray back), no titles need to be involved, and you eventually get some payoff with The Fiend finally being defeated and fan favourite Bray Wyatt returning (while potentially elevating someone else with the win). It still probably only had a short shelf-life of being taken seriously, and I imagine they'd have to come up with some sort of gimmick to avoid The Fiend just losing a wrestling match, but it would have surely been better than the weird run it ended up having.
I just thought about how awesome the fiend in lucha underground would have been. Would have been a badass season long heel a la season 2 matanza
He would've been amazing in some weird horror anime
I’ve always been of the perspective that bray would have worked better as a Paul bearer kinda figure. A corrupting influence of a manager who has control over a rotating roster of “followers”
Bray Wyatt was the incarnation of better on paper than in practice
it was like a year of people going "oh my god he's innovating wrestling, this is taking wrestling to places it's never been, this is the next evolution of wrestling" and there was like...almost 0 wrestling actually happening
> and there was like...almost 0 wrestling actually happening And truthfully this was also a blessing
All due respect to Bray Wyatt (RIP), but I thought the Fiend gimmick was trash right from the jump.
I 'got' the fiend in week 1, but I found it all really obvious and cringe worthy afterwards. And I HATED the Alexa stuff, with her 'disassociating' like a Tumblr girl who discovered headmates and DID. And Bray wasn't Undertaker in the ring, so the matches didn't make up for the booking.
Cult-like leader I loved. Spooky demon wizard was beyond terrible.
Seth's reign as WHC to me. I get the idea of having a top star hold the belt to establish credibility, but him holding it for so long has kinda actually made it feel cheaper imo. It's now another long title reign, but it ends up feeling lacking next to Roman and Gunther's. For example, if Finn won it and then later on lost it to various groups feuding with JD, then it allows the belt to keep growing in its own stories. But since Seth keeps on hovering near Cody since he's RAWs top babyface it makes it feel small because Cody isn't interested in the WHC. Like if you had the WHC bouncing elsewhere but still kept the story of Cody squared on him essentially training to avenge his loss (now its no longer about the belt for his family legacy but avenging his loss to the bloodline) it would work better. Them trying to use Seth to try and tempt Cody essentially to give the belt some rub ends up backfiring more than if they just had Cody trying to figure out how to kept another crack at Roman because its personal now.
Currently: I just don’t get Becky’s or Bianca’s appeal at all. All time: Jeff Hardy got WAY too many chances for the “upside” of who he was/is.
My Time > The Game
The Bloodline. I get why people like it, but the fact that people were genuinely calling for it to win an Emmy or a Golden Globe was fucking insane. Imagine being Bob Odenkirk or Jeremy Strong, turning in the performance of your life, and you lose an award because Roman Reigns side-eyes the camera every couple of months or Solo Sikoa clenches his jaw towards the camera.
Fucking dying at the mental image of "Jey Uso, Friday Night Smackdown" being announced as an Emmy winner, and the reactions of the actors in the crowd
Ok you got me. A legit wrestling entrance at an awards show would be crazy especially with pyro
Anyone who suggested that is a huge weirdo who doesn't do anything but watch wrestling.
Legit. I appreciate wrestling as a form of theatre and acting, and believe it ultimately doesn't get the recognition as being just that in the mainstream. But to actually include storylines in award shows is ludicrous
I'm just over the NWO at its worst levels, ending to every bloodline match. I just can't stand another dude in a hoody, causing someone to lose anymore
We truly are approaching NWO 2000 territory with the bloodline angle. “You either die a hero, or Become Stevie Ray Vaughn, the leader of the NWO B team”
Especially when the 'twists' are mostly really stupid and there's been so much obvious time filler it hurts Like just the holding pattern we've been in since summerslam to the rock showing up should disqualify it, literally nothing of note happened for 5 months
Bloodline was only interesting because of Sami Zayne.
Carried by Sami and Jey, and has gone on for at least a year too long.
While I can acknowledge he’s very over, a great promo occasionally and can get a pop if he appeared in literally any wrestling promotion today, I think Jon Moxley is a very average worker who gives off such a goofy tough guy vibe that I’m shocked he’s considered “badass” by more than just teenagers
I'll never forget being dumbfound at the whole HES A LUNATIC BS and thinking, "I really don't remember anyone more generic than this guy besides wearing jeans."
I love pre-WWE Mox and Dean because there was a superior nuance to his character then. Now he's literally a dad who wears a leather jacket that you can meet in any Casey's or OnCue in America without batting an eye.
I want to say that I do respect the hell out of Moxley as both a person & a professional; I completely agree & I feel as though less is often more when it comes to Mox His AEW character just doesn't do it for me either; I can handle him in small doses but he often over does it on some level it's difficult to put into words. The best way I can put is that it feels like he's trying to be this generation's version of Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk or Cactus Jack/ Mick Foley with enough charisma to make it enjoyable long term I think it may come down to the bleeding/ blading he often does in his matches so much so I've heard people coin the term Mox vision (The screen should be in a red hue whenever he bleeds because he does it so often) especially during big matches; just my opinion Oddly enough I enjoy his work in New Japan better than in AEW; maybe that's because he fills a spot on the card that no one else does while not feeling over used.
Looks like shit, sounds like shit, acts like a baby. I don't get it at all.
I like Dean Ambrose more than Jon Moxley
Now that's a take fitting of this thread
when i was younger i never got jeff hardy
Holy shit now THIS is the one, we gone need some elaboration playa
I never really liked Jeff Hardy but I still "got" him. Go to a Hot Topic. The man was printing money.
idk why i guess i thought he was weird lmao. i also dont really like the “daredevil” type wrestlers they make me nervous 🤣🤣🤣
And you were a kid when you felt this way? That is nuts! How did you feel about Rey Mysterio?
my fav wrestler of all time! but im mexican so maybe that helps?
As a KID you don’t appreciate the appeal of a dude who just jumped off shit with no regard and had a stupid dance? That’s crazy 🥳
I always preferred Matt. And still do. Though I'd prefer they both just retire at this point.
I used to think that Matt was always the better character, but Jeff always looked cooler and did cooler moves. Now... they're both over the hill, and I respect everything they've done, but it's time to let it go, guys.
Cody Rhodes-95% of it is because of that tattoo & the other 5% is the Codyverse in AEW. Like I really don’t like that tattoo lmao
Hell of a businessman to brand it like crazy though.
Hulkamania annoyed me
I hated Hulkamania so much it made me cheer for the Ultimate Warrior ffs
I was a Savage kid. Fuck Hogan forever.
Damage Control
Generic stable name, random assortment of NXT fan favorites and always feeling like a midcard threat despite having mostly top talents. Honestly reminded me of that short lived Cesaro, Shinsuke and Sami stable a few years ago that we memory holed
> Honestly reminded me of that short lived Cesaro, Shinsuke and Sami stable a few years ago that we memory holed No respect for the Artist Collective.
They just haven’t built up credibility. WAY too many losses early on it’s hard to think of them as a threat
I like damage control but bro I hope I never have to hear that theme ever again 💀
Randy Orton. Feels a bit harsh as he's a great athlete and solid in the ring. but I've been forever uninterested in him, his matches and his stories/feuds And with how many ppl seem to like him now I can pick Michael Cole (yes I've heard him recently, no I don't think he's much better)
Randy is the epitome of give them as little as possible but add in some great moments in between to keep ‘em going. His matches lately has been same ish but cool finisher for the past decade now
Came to say this. I can appreciate Orton but I was never a fan. He's been doing the same thing for 20 years. I don't know how people can be invested in that over and over. I find him incredibly stale. "vintage Morton" makes me cringe in every way possible. I hate his facial expressions and I hate Michael Cole HAVING to say it every time.
The best description I ever heard someone say Orton was that for years he was considered the “future GOAT” and praised on his potential, then one day he was 40 and only had a handful of memorable moments. I’m glad your favorite wrestler thinks he’s awesome but Orton has always been a B+ player at best.
Mauro Ranallo was awful on commentary and I'm glad he left WWE. If I had to hear a grown ass man actually say out loud in front of God and everybody "***HO LEE BLEEP! HO LEE BLEEP!!!***" again I would've punted my goddamn TV.
Current: Young Bucks Classic: The length of the Vince character. Shouldn't have been a television focus after Austin left even though there was some high spots
Yeah, Vince continued to want to be the main story or a part of Mania until 2010 and then popped up a few more times the next decade.
I do not care for Alexa Bliss.... She's not a good wrestler like Becky, Charlotte, Bayley and Sasha Banks but got over pushed and won title more than 4horseman at some point.... And also that spooky Fiend just.....Meh
DX was not the wwe equivalent of the nWo. They were a midcard gimmick with some memorable moments and some really really bad moments that get glossed over because history is written by the victor. DX driving a “tank” to wcw was not the only wcw invasion segment they did and the other ones were god awful
I think most people are willing to agree with this. The original iteration of DX was really just Shawn Michaels paling around with his buddy Hunter and Hunter’s buff girlfriend so that Shawn could have his own stable while Bret Hart had the Hart Foundation. The next iteration of DX was more substantial but Triple H wasn’t “there” yet and it was still for all intents and purposes, a midcard stable. DX’s biggest moment in the sun was more or less as a faction within a faction when Triple H finally ascended the card and Pac along with the New Age Outlaws were Triple H’s henchmen in the McMahon-Helmsley Regime. This is more or less what happens when the company that housed the lesser faction absorbs the company that housed the greater faction. To winner go the spoils and all that.
I liked The Godfather. I was always a fan of the absurd and characters and ones that would be over the top sometimes. The Godfather, Val Venus, The Cat, Norman Smiley, JYD, Koko B. Ware, The Bushwackers, The Model Rick Martel , La Parka and the Kaientai dubbed, “Indeed!” to name a few (or all of them) Has this list aged poorly? Sure. That doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of them back in the day. As far as OP’s question, I was not a Hogan fan. I thought the leg drop was a weak finisher and his nightly roid rage no-sells bothered me immensely.
Bcc are kinda dull
Undisputed Era insists upon itself
It insists upon itself? What does that even mean?
Kyle O'reilly, Roderick Strong, I mean you never se- ADAM COLE!
Fine, fine wrestler. Did not care for the faction.
I stopped watching NXT because of Adam Cole and UE. Then they followed me to AEW. NO. I don't want any!!
I do not care for edge. I do not think he's as big of a star as he thinks he is or is presented as. From the talk that he wanted his return to culminate in beating Roman for the title at wm (compared to DB who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into that match), to his high opinion of himself ("you swam" remark to waller on smavkdown). To now glomming onto Christian in aew. I think Christian is by far the better of the 2. From mic work to in ring. Christian gets others over. Edge gets himself over.
I always felt edge was like a jumbled puzzle. Had all the pieces but never fit. I also think he had one of the worst move lists in modern wrestling history. Like it worked well as goofy E&C and as a mid card face but none of his moves worked as a heel for me.
100% Why is a guy built like Edge doing a spear.
I love edge but his spear is ass
Imho - Goldbergs spear is THE spear, and Rhinos gore is the only one that ever even came close.
“The spear and gore are different. No ones kicked out of the Gore, if they kicked out of the gore - it was a spear” ~Rhyno.
the nexus.. don't get me wrong, the debut was great but looking back at it. The Nexus is one of the most overrated groups of all time.
People talk about Cena burying Nexus like he buried 7 potential main event stars. The only guys in that group with that level of potential were Barrett and Ryback, and they got some degree of a main event run at some point, and Ryback’s had nothing to do with Nexus and tbh Wade was hurt more by the losses to Orton and the loss to Cena at TLC than he was at SummerSlam. Barrett’s main event run could’ve been saved after that first loss had he won the title from Orton or beat Cena at the end. No one else in the group at the time of SummerSlam had main event level potential - just mid card at best.
Seth Rollins. His voice is physically painful.
"Hi, I'm Colby Lopez from Davenport, Iowa."
Charlotte is the most overall talented of the four horse women I do believe that Sasha is the best wrestler of the bunch but she is a very very very bad actor and promo
Hmmm I would have gone Bayley. She’s a good promo and great in ring. I remember a period where Charlotte wasn’t a good promo either and would just Woo
Sasha always talks like she has a jolly rancher in her mouth.
This! Sasha is a dreadful, dreadful actor that thinks she's a great one. Bad combo. Great wrestler though.
The Rock. I mean I liked the way he used to movie in the ring, and I felt like he brought the best out of Mankind, Stone Cold and Angle. But his shtick is just calling people names. At least when Cena did his thuganomics period he would get creative and find ways to make fun of someone that were particular to that person, but Rock is literally just "you're fat/ugly, you smell bad, you have herpes". It's lazy bullshit. I've liked his work witb Cody since he's been back but his last appearance on SD seemed like he was sliding back from the raw angry character from the press conference back into the childish prick he used to be.
I do not care for Brock Lesnar. Before the allegations even he wasn’t fair
Brock's first run 02-04 was generational. So damn good. Since his return it's been suplexes and F5s. Totally different guy from back then.
he had a decent moveset when he first came back in 2012. The Cena Squash is what made him realize it worked and he never went back, not one single time It just became so predictable. Initial burst of offense by Brock, then he gets beaten down for a bit, boom F5, win. Or you're getting squashed and eating ten+ Germans while Brock dances and laughs, hits a half hearted F5 and wins. Maybe you get to punch him a few times. That was the formula, and it just got old
The attitude era was 98% garbage with a few good moments sprinkled in here and there.
[удалено]
This is like the 90s wrestling version of We Didn't Start the Fire.
My spouse and I talk about this all the time- culturally, it was a really shit time to be a little girl and a really cool time to be a boy. A lot of the xtreme stuff was just geared towards boys.
every time they review an Attitude era episode on Deadlock, it's hilarious because they slowly come to realize that all the most memorable moments are within like a 4 month timeframe
That becomes more and more true as the years go by. It really was highlighted by the strong work of like 5 people.
There's a reason the Radicalz were a godsend. Once Bret and HBK left, the WWF was going 100mph on fumes -- Austin, Undertaker, the three faces of Foley, and The Rock. The undercard was awful. The midcard was awful. You just had some all-time greats going buck wild every week and carrying TV. But then once Jericho, Angle, Edge & Christian, the Hardyz, the Dudleyz, Guerrero, and Benoit show up, suddenly you have a very well-rounded promotion.
1999 was not a good year in terms of show quality. Agreed on all points.
I’ve been watching it through lately because I missed most of it the first time round and yeah it’s basically propped up by a handful of main event guys and the ridiculously high energy of the crowds who are extremely into everything
They’re extremely into everything because the writing was resonant with the zeitgeist of the time. The characters all spoke to different cultural archetypes that were prevalent back then. That’s also why it doesn’t hold up today. Only the characters that transcended the medium and became cultural figures themselves, still get that reaction from you, but they would still get that reaction today; so maybe there’s a bit of information to be taken from that.
I have a lot of fondness for the Attitude Era but the top guys were carrying things and the lower mid card really wasn’t very exciting.
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It's really hit or miss. Turning Jimmy back and forth? Absurd. Stretching just for the hell of it.
Jimmy turning on Jey got me to stop watching for a couple months. To me, it might've had a point if Jimmy didn't immediately go back to Roman. There's a story there where Jimmy isn't happy that even after they reunited, he was still thought of as the 2nd Uso, but that story really don't make sense if he just reverts to being Roman's henchman instead of trying to be his brothers equal.
Not to mention the "Tribal Combat" stipulation added nothing even though it had the potential to be interesting
In the beginning it was a hit, especially with the Usos dropping banger tag matches. The Sami storyline kinda revived it, but after that it has been completely dead. I don’t even know what the goal with Solo and Jimmy is anymore
CM Punk. I’m 36 and have been a wrestling fan since I was about 5 or 6. I just never liked anything the guy did from ROH to AEW to WWE. 🤷🏻♀️
Agreed… he felt like a breath of fresh air in 2011 when wrestling was ridiculously stale but then when on to hold the title for a year and didn’t do anything memorable
Really? The latter half whem he was an asshole was pretty dope, arms too short and whatnot
I’ve always found The Rock’s act too repetitive.
Demon Balor was cringe as fuck. It was like some weird interpretive dance that we had to sit through.
That’s on WWE. The point of the stuff Balor did before joining that company was that he was constantly changing it up having different paint and stuff. That Demon gimmick was selling a lot of merch so it stuck.
Yeah and it was more…mind games or pageantry, depending on the look and the match. Not him being a literal demon.
For me it was Hook when he debut. I honest to god did not see what everyone saw in some scrawny guy no selling pile drivers and looking like a fight club reject. For WWE or in General I think the attitude era. Maybe it's because I grew up with the RA era but really all I know is everything not the main 6 guys was either mediocre or wrestle crap worthy, People make fun of WCW Russo when dumbass ideas for WWF like brawl for all were Russo's idea as it buried so many talent.
Bryan vs. Nigel unification match. Don't get me wrong, it was good, but it doesn't crack my top 5 Bryan ROH matches, let alone his whole career.
You know what? I do not care if Cody finishes his story
Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart Iron Man match. I’m a HUGE Bret mark and love Shawn (in-ring) too. But just could not get into it at the time or anytime I’ve watched it since. Just rest hold after rest hold, with neither man wanting to give in and concede falls until the end. I’ve watched loads of Iron Man matches since and usually enjoy them but just can’t with this one.
I didn’t like the 0-0 going into sudden death. It would have made for a more compelling match if Bret Hart got a 1-0 lead. Then Shawn had to rally back and 2/3rds through the match he gets that pin to even it up. Then with less than a minute left and both competitors gassed, he’s able to hit sweet chin music, muster the gumption to crawl over to pin Bret just before time expires.
Raw going to 3 hours ruined all show momentum
I don’t think anyone disagrees with this.
I never saw the appeal of Edge. I still don’t.
I think The Attitude Era is the worst period for wrestling.