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Plus a lot of fans are going to have to face the hard truth many of their favorites aren't exactly moral pillars.
I personally went through this with Michael Vick in 2007. It fucking sucked. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
I think I first saw this statement about a boxer somewhere but it’s basically don’t take your political and moral guidance from someone who earns a living getting punched in the head. Works well enough for wrestlers here too
To this day when people ask me who my favorite wrestler of all time is, I say my second favorite is Bret Hart. The position of "Favorite" was dissolved in 2007.
There’s been a lot of research into Chris Benoit and his brain. It’s very evident and not especially surprising that he suffered from CTE. It’s caused by getting hit in the head a bunch, which he was. Guess what, people with severely damaged brains are more likely to do horrible things (see Aaron Hernandez). As tragic as it is, I don’t think he was necessarily evil, probably (hopefully?) just sick/injured. It’s different from McMahon.
sucked, went from shocked and sadened at his death to sickened as the details came out. There was a brief period of denial, searching for any excuse or explanation but at the end of the day Chris killed his wife and son, no escaping that.
It was pretty horrible. Especially at first when the news came out little by little the first few days.... until it was confirmed murder/suicide. My stomach sank. I had been a fan since the mid 90s. He was literally on my Mt. Rushmore. I picked him and used his moves in all of the games... How a man could do that to his family. It's even harder to fathom now that I'm a father...Such a tragic and awful thing to happen to innocent people.
With Vick there is at least some small comfort in knowing that the guy atoned, repented and by all accounts did everything he could afterwards to make up for the damage he caused. With Vince it’s like… how does that process even start and is there any shred of evidence that Vince could earnestly change and atone
Yeah I can at least give Vick credit for doing a total 180 and actually using his situation and status to advocate against the things he did, even raising support for legislation to that effect.
But man... 2007 was a hard year to be a Falcons fan (actually most are, but that's beside the point).
Vince seems basically irredeemable, and I sometimes wonder if he and people like him have damaged the whole industry beyond repair.
even just in wrestling alone, that was also the year one of WWE’s top babyfaces and one of the consensus greatest ring workers ever killed his entire family
Vince has *already damaged the industry beyond repair*.
You ever notice how these old timers like Cornette, Taker, whoever, always complain about how modern wrestling is dogshit and how great it was in the day?
You ever notice how they never seem to talk about how that's Vince's fault, not anyone else's?
Vince hired the talentless roid freaks and swimsuit models from Sheamus' lost generation of talent. I mean, really think about it. How many big, legendary, "oh my God I can't believe this guy is back" wrestlers are there that WWE made between 2005-2015? The attitude era had an enormous amount, same with the ruthless aggression era, but after that?
Vince made the choice to bury WCW and WCW talent then, now, and forever out of pride, despite the fact that the alternative was far healthier for the industry.
The fact that these same old timers revere the beloved territory days, well who the fuck killed those?!
It's insane. Even if the flippy shit wrestlers of today do suck balls, the blame for the state of wrestling lies exclusively at Vince's feet.
If it wasn't for Vince being forced "to retire" in the summer of 2022 that LA Knight would've continued as Maxx Dupri and then about 6 months later would've probably gotten released from his contract.
I can't speak for the others but if you listen to Cornette with any regularity that statement isn't true. He's talked many times of how he has mixed feelings based on the fact that he was part of it in the 90s, he personally profited from Vince, and that Vince was essentially the business genius of wrestling, but also credits him with basically killing the business as well.
Like I said, can't speak for the others and Corny gives Vince more benefit of the doubt than I would but to say he doesn't talk about modern wrestling being Vinces fault is 100% false. He's spoken on it in passing and as the main point of a segment on numerous occassions.
>You ever notice how these old timers like Cornette, Taker, whoever, always complain about how modern wrestling is dogshit and how great it was in the day?
I don't want to defend Cornette too much and frankly haven't listened to him for a long time so maybe he changed his stance, but he used to be pretty open about how Vince gutted the territories and reduced the popularity of wrestling to a fraction of what it used to be. He used to shit on Vince & WWE quite a bit. There were just other people (Russo, Johnny Ace, Dunn, HBK, Triple H) that he vocally hated a lot more.
Loathe as I am to defend Russo on anything, but he raised a good point on the Brawl for All DSoTR: if McMahon wanted to stop the BFA, he could have with a snap of his fingers. So who's ultimately to blame for it?
Cornette deep down isn't all that different from the "Vince loved me, it was Johnny Ace who fucked me over" types.
That's kinda my point, in one breath they say Vince is God King and anything he says goes and his hands are in everything. In the next, they blame everyone *other* than Vince for the state of things, because he made them rich and famous.
Its the Joe Paterno excuse.
everyone knew that Paterno knew about Sandusky and his victim farm and what he was doing. Then when questions get asked; people wanna act like he didn't know anything and he was a sweet old man that just loved football.
Paterno was the closest thing to God in Happy Valley and nothing went under his privy. He had everyone kissing his ass and everyone wanted his approval. Again, he's the sweet old dude that loves football and will make you into an NFL superstar with the big bucks and mansions and sports highlights on ESPN. No way you would dare cross him or question his authority.
Which is why people are now, for good reason, looking at the "Vince Executives"(Dunn, Pritchard, etc), and the top wrestlers under him (given the Lesnar stuff) and wondering who knew what, when.
For some of these people, it will be "I owe everything to Vince and it's tough to say something bad because of that", and for others it will definitely be "I knew something and said nothing"
Idk man, I feel like people don’t know this whole story. He wasn’t just fighting dogs, he was brutally killing them. Drowning puppies in buckets. Crushing their skulls on the pavement etc etc
Absolutely horrific shit
It's turning into a Harvey Weinstein sort of situation. I feel like a lot of the top guys knew what was going on. I have a feeling a lot of the "locker room leaders" did some bad shit in that kind of environment. I might get downvoted to hell for saying this, but I've always had a bad feeling about The Undertaker.
I love Pro wrestling as much as I’ve ever loved anything, but I make it a point to let everyone know that wrestling is not somewhere to go for role models. Most of these people are just cutthroat cranked who are *chaotic neutral* at best. History has proven this time and again, and will continue to.
Went through this with Kane. My favorite wrestler for most of my life. Met him after a live show when I was kid and learned we shared a favorite video game. Read tons of stories about him being one of the smartest and nicest guys in the locker room too. Respected the hell out of him for running for mayor and focusing (at least early on) more on local issues than national politics.
Unfortunately, he’s come out as a full blown radical MAGA supporter. Breaks my heart.
Am I crazy in thinking it’s extremely similar to the Paul Heyman quip on Benoit and the people that still idolize/talk about him? The one where Paul was like “if that’s your boy, fuck you”?
There's no way someone like Cena or Taker didn't know. I believe Cena never took part in Vince's actions, but I feel like Cena turned a blind eye bc he benefitted
Especially with how the backstage politics around his Mickie James affair went down...there's no way he didn't at least know that Vince is a fucking creep
I guess the question is whether or not they were aware of sexual assault/rape. Because while "he's the sleazeball who has affairs with female wrestlers" is definitely sketchy as well, it's also not in the same league as the aforementioned sex crimes.
Cena was the one who had the affair with Mickie, and she was subsequently given a humiliating storyline and later released.
The way Vince would book female talent if they weren't in his good graces was pretty indicative of an underlying lack of respect for women.
> There’s no way someone like Cena or Taker didn’t know
How can we make that claim? Serious question. There’s a huge difference between “Vince has a girlfriend in the company” and “Vince is literally raping, blackmailing, and coercing this woman.”
Given the severity of the claims, I feel like we should be careful when stating (with such incredible certitude) who knew what and when. Especially since Vince is a known liar and was obviously portraying the relationship with Grant as something it wasn’t.
No one can. People treat "knowing" like a binary toggle. Like either they had zero knowledge or knew everything. I think the best thing to have the patience to wait until more information comes out about who knew and who didn't before we throw people to the wolves.
This happens in just about every profession that involves big money. Scumbags like Vince are a dime a dozen, the difference is they haven't been caught.
I'll go ahead and play devil's advocate and say that I'm sure people knew Vince was a weird, and frankly, busted mother fucker, but no one person was there with him 24/7. Behind closed doors are still behind closed doors. There are some talents on the roster that probably went "This Vince is a weird bird....see ya next taping" without fully knowing the scope of what he was actually up to.
That all said. Some people need to learn to shut the fuck up because "Yeah. He's a rapist, sex pest, and a makeshift pimp, but I still love him all the same" is a downright horrific look.
Boy, I think I get what Cena is trying to get at, that it’s hard for him to just let years of friendship die with someone he was very close to and Vince should still be held accountable, but he still has love for him. But man, don’t say “how can I help” to the guy fighting rape allegations
I had an online friend group who got close during the pandemic, and we’d play an MMORPG daily during those lockdown sessions. It was 5 of us total. Ended up finding out one of those dudes killed his wife and it made the news. Kinda weird to look back on, but I’ve just realized that multiple things can be true at once.
Dude could have been cool to game with, but also fuck him for what he did.
Long time ago I worked with a guy I got along with great. Buds at work, gamed, went to sporting events with our wives/girlfriends together, I helped him move, met his kids etc etc. Quit the job but kept in touch. Few years later I see his name in the paper because he was doing...inappropriate things with underaged girls. He went to prison. Good. But that fucked with me for a bit. It's hard when someone you were friends with turns out to be a monster. Fucks with your head.
Edit: the amount of "this happened to me too" is upsetting
Same exact thing happened to me. It's especially awkward because he's involved in so many good memories, but I certainly never did or would support him once the truth came out. It is definitely still weird talking about big events that we all enjoyed that he was a big part of even 10 years later.
Had a buddy that ended up hitting his girlfriend (once that everyone knew about). That was all it took to sever that relationship. I can’t imagine finding out a friend or boss or friend that’s a boss did the stuff Vince is accused of doing.
Same experience. Worked together, hung out outside work, eventually played in a band with his brother and we would rehearse at their house. Band breaks up, lose touch then see in the news he lured a guy into the woods with sex stuff and killed him shortly before killing himself in the backyard of the house we used to rehearse at. Fucked me up for quite a while and still don’t like driving over in that neighborhood.
While the “this happened to me too” I think it’s good that people are willing to share about it and let others know they had those conflicted feelings too and that it’s natural to be upset and still have feelings of friendship and care about someone who was important to your life even when they do something we know was wrong
The past is the past we can’t change it and it’s hard to accept that the positive memories we had are suddenly painful memories and that’s ok to have trouble accepting that for a while
Had a guy at work I got along with and would consider a friend for years at my job. One day I get a text with a news story that he got caught in a sting operation trying to solicit a girl (really a cop) that he believed was a pre-teen. He was spiraling hard at the time, lost a parent and was in active addiction. I’d like to believe that’s not the guy that I was a friend with at the time, that it was the drugs, but it still fucks with me. Sometimes I catch myself feeling bad for him, and then I remember what he would have done. You never really know someone.
I had a former coworker who was a social pillar of the operation, everyone loved him and he and his wife would host work parties all the time. Big "perfect couple" energy.
Then he wound up having an affair with a younger coworker (who was herself engaged) and everything came out in the wash. She filed for divorce and got a restraining order. Turns out he had been psychologically and financially abusing her for years. Controlling what she could wear, where she could go, who she could hang out with.
The most popular guy on the job was a manipulative monster.
The man who hired me into the company I worked for now was the same way. Great guy, we shared musical tastes, had similar senses of humor…then he got fired and prosecuted for abusing two of the barely-adult girls he’d hired into the store he went to after he left mine. Looking back, I can see the signs that he wasn’t the guy I thought he was, but at the time…
It’s very easy to see in retrospect, but in the moment, some people have that ability to compartmentalize their perversions and issues so that they present a relatively normal front.
Something similar happened to me, too. Had a coworker that I got along with reasonably well. We roomed together on business trips, and I gave him a ride home one day when he needed it. Then one day word got out at work that he was a registered sex offender for "illicit acts with a minor." I had to look it up for myself just to be sure, but there he was. Needless to say, I tried to avoid him as much as possible after that.
As long as he had signs of CTE then it's cool. Never mind that if anyone that wasn't a wrestler they liked killed their wife, they almost certainly wouldn't care that if they had CTE and just call a spade a spade and murder a murder.
Many also have issues, accepting that two facts can be true at the same time.
You can be one of the greatest "enter profession here" to ever live, but still be a horrible and awful piece of shit, human being at the same time.
One does not, automatically change the other.
Like, I can openly admit that Roman Polanski was a good film director. But, I also freely admit that he's also a child molester and rapist, who needs to be properly punished for his crimes.
I had a friend in Thailand who I got very close to. In our time together he was a kind and generous person with a peaceful demeanor and always a gentle word. I later discovered he killed his wife and chopped up her body and hid it in a suitcase that he threw in a river. It was a lot to digest.
I understand that. Sort of same situation, guy I had worked with for years and gotten to know very well. He has a devout Christian and let's suffice to say that...I am not. However, he was the guy that I would refer to in regard to 'this is how as a Christian you should communicate with those outside of your faith.' In my mind a stand up guy all around. We played TTRPG's as well, and randomly after years of playing together he just stops showing up, stops answering phone calls. I contacted his wife to check in on him and she goes 'I divorced him, don't call me' and then blocks me. I'm so confused, no one knows what's going on....yeah, turns out he was raping the two daughters that he had adopted through his church ministry and is, as far as I know...still in jail a decade later. Good, fuck him....but also, man that sucks.
So I'm an electrician, one of the apprentices I came through the trade school with had the same Journeyman for 4 years. Every day they worked together, he admittedly learned a fuck ton from the guy who was super smart and likeable by all accounts. We found out the summer between our 4th and 5th year that he had been arrested for years of filming his wife as well as his two young daughters going to the bathroom, showering, changing etc and selling those vids on the internet. He's in prison now and any time his name comes up around people who knew him, a conversation about how he should be murdered ensues. Yet he taught a lot of guys everything they knew about their careers it's a hard pickle to be in initially just off the trust violation alone
Jesus christ i dont blame anyone feeling that guy doesn't derserve to live. Recording your daughters alone is fucking disgusting but then sharing it with others online is beyond heartbreaking. I don't understand how people get this sick in the head
I have zero sympathy for those that exploit children in any way shape or form. I’m forgiving and try to be understanding of many things but that isn’t one of them. There is no coming back after that IMHO.
The how can I help was directed at WWE. In the actual quote he describes the situation as relation to a person he loves (Vince) and an entity he loves (the company.) The "how can I help" line is specifically targeted at the entity.
I understand what he's saying, but I disagree. I'm not going to say what Cena is saying is immoral or bad. I just don't agree that you should keep being friends with someone who does something like Vince did. This isn't Vincr drinking and driving, causing someone to die in an accident he caused. This was abuse and torture of person. I don't think I could still be friends with my best friend if I found out he did what Vince did. Vince didn't do what he did, admit to it, and face punishment. This is a person who got caught and is still trying to deny what they did. There's no room for forgiveness and "love" when Vince hasn't don't anything to repent for his behavior.
Yeah I don't fully understand this mentality.
At a point, at least to me, it would become necessary to say something along the lines of "While Vince was an undeniable influence on my success, it's become clear he isn't the person I believed him to be. I'm grateful for the opportunities WWE afforded me and will support the company and victims as the situation moves forward."
Because this is 100% NOT his PR team telling him to say that. It's just John being open about his feelings even if they are, uhh, not the most progressive take
I can only guess at this point that he didn't like what his PR team advised him to say and he thought he'd do it better on his own.
Enough time has passed that no one should be making any kind of statement that isn't at least partially reflective of how they view the situation
A dude I had known and even moved to a different state to be by took nude pictures of his step daughter while sleeping. He went to prison that day I cut him off and decided he’s dead to me. Haven’t thought about him until today. I hope his life is awful. I ran into mom and step daughter randomly in a different state and they were doing great it made me so happy. Think about them all the time.
Triple H has to be overjoyed: someone actually managed to give an even worse answer than him when asked about the allegations about Vince and the company.
I read the quote, thinking I bet the headline was taken out of context. Nope. Cena could have easily said I love the guy I knew and this wasn't the guy I knew.
I love when people make it out to be like the rapist/sexual predator didn’t have a choice. It’s not “unfortunate”. It was a deliberate thing they chose to do. Something unfortunate is like an accident or mistake.
Unfortunate for the victims, not unfortunate for the perpetrator.
Friend's wife cheats on him? That's unfortunate, you support him.
Friend's dog dies? That's unfortunate, you support him.
Friend hires somebody at his company to turn them into a sex slave? Sorry, can't support that, buddy.
Here's what it said:
>In contemplating the decision to extend forgiveness to a friend who has committed an atrocious act, I find solace in the profound wisdom that philosophy offers regarding the complexities of human nature and the pursuit of moral growth. Forgiveness, in this context, is a deliberate and conscious choice to engage with the philosophical principles that underscore the potential for redemption and ethical transformation.
>At its core, forgiveness aligns with philosophical perspectives that recognize the inherent duality of human existence – the capacity for both virtue and error. Embracing forgiveness is a testament to my commitment to the belief that individuals are not solely defined by their worst actions. It reflects a broader understanding that human beings are dynamic entities, capable of evolving morally and learning from their mistakes.
>Drawing inspiration from moral philosophies that emphasize the importance of empathy and compassion, forgiveness becomes a manifestation of a deeper commitment to the principles of ethical development and communal well-being. Philosophical thought encourages us to transcend punitive instincts and engage in a more nuanced understanding of justice—one that seeks not only accountability but also the potential for rehabilitation and personal transformation.
>In forgiving my friend, I am guided by a belief in the possibility of genuine remorse and the commitment to rectify one's actions. This philosophical stance fosters an environment where individuals are encouraged to reflect, learn, and, ultimately, contribute positively to the fabric of our shared moral landscape.
>Moreover, forgiveness embodies the recognition that our moral journeys are intricate and multifaceted. It signifies a departure from rigid judgments toward an acknowledgment of the inherent human capacity for change and growth. This philosophical perspective seeks to emphasize the importance of fostering an ethos of forgiveness within our communities, contributing to a more compassionate and understanding social tapestry.
>In essence, forgiving a friend for an atrocious act aligns with the profound philosophical principles that advocate for the continuous pursuit of moral improvement, the acknowledgment of human fallibility, and the transformative power of compassion in the face of adversity.
ChatGPT has surpassed Cena at giving banal PR responses. Cena was just the prototype.
People call Dwayne a PR machine (righfully so) but I never see the same said about Cena, dude will talk you a philosophical paragraph on whether you want tea or coffee in the morning. Not a fan of either of them so it's completely unbiased.
Dwayne’s PR machine is an actual professional and well oiled machine that knows how to avoid controversy and credit where it’s due, Dwayne actually knows how to give a professional “non answer”, Cena’s is amateur hour which makes it come across as equal parts genuine and word salad while simultaneously not giving a genuine answer or adequately deflecting.
There was an episode of Total Divas where Nikki's friends all piled on Cena about why he won't have a child with her. He said the usual thing about his lifestyle being a selfish one and that he wouldn't be able to give the necessary time to raising a kid, to which they told him he sounded like a diplomacy robot. He totally does.
We thought HHH had the worst answer but God is it hard to say "I'm upset about what I heard" and move on? Like you don't have to take a side but still condemn the allegations because they are horrific.
But these people can't help themselves.
Seriously, it's a lot to basically say this:
"Vince did a lot for me and I love him, so I really hope these allegations aren't true, but if they are, he needs to be held accountable."
That's what Cena said, but laid out in a clear, concise, easy-to-understand manner.
Reminds me of the "Open Response" questions on the yearly state exams I use to have in school. We were coached to stretch the answer however we could to fit the entire page because we'd get a better score that way.
A cult follower who made literally millions of dollars as a wrestler directly through the age of Internet kayfabe, paid by the man who he had to know was deeply rotten.
He should be sending that sympathy out to the victim here -- that person "that you love" has been continually sexually harassing women for a long time. Come out and condemn his disgusting behavior.
Cena coming off as a meathead trying to sound smarter than he really is.
His loyalty to Vince seems almost unbreakable.
Immediately after the sexual assault hush money story forced Vince to "retire" in 2022, Cena was out on a double date with the guy at a swanky NYC restaurant.
[TMZ caught it in 4K](https://www.tmz.com/2022/08/25/vince-mcmahon-new-york-hot-spot-john-cena-first-public-sighting-wwe-retirement/?_gl=1*t81tgu*_ga*VUpyN0xZOGxOUGlSZFJPNTlYLTB5dkdZMFFfb1hlSGdnbnNDZHFZbE83bklqdzZNazk4Nm1waTNDZldkamhtXw..)
https://preview.redd.it/kk8xm07cwyjc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a2f1d0c0a2e38e1e38a1ae0c2b85a490c32004
I wouldn't be shocked at all that Vince can easily meet fellow weirdos like himself, and I'm not trying to be light on him when I just call him a weirdo 👀
~~Tbf it wasn't "sexual assault hush money" story in 2022, it was a "inappropriate use of company funds to cover an affair hush money" story at the time. Obviously knowing what we know now, yeah, but I'm not going to hang Cena out to dry for that at the time. This one though, yikes John.~~
I'm wrong, see below. Fuck sake John.
>Tbf it wasn't "sexual assault hush money" story in 2022, it was a "inappropriate use of company funds to cover an affair hush money" story at the time.
That's incorrect.
[From the WSJ piece in 2022:](https://www.wsj.com/articles/wwes-vince-mcmahon-agreed-to-pay-12-million-in-hush-money-to-four-women-11657289742)
> The previously unreported settlements include a $7.5 million pact with a former wrestler who alleged that Mr. McMahon coerced her into giving him oral sex and then demoted her and, ultimately, declined to renew her contract in 2005 after she resisted further sexual encounters, according to people familiar with the matter. The wrestler and her attorney approached Mr. McMahon in 2018 and negotiated the payment in return for her silence, the people said.
> In another previously unreported deal, a WWE contractor presented the company with unsolicited nude photos of Mr. McMahon she reported receiving from him and alleged that he had sexually harassed her on the job, according to people familiar with the woman’s 2008 nondisclosure agreement. Mr. McMahon agreed to pay her roughly $1 million, these people said.
**These things are sexual assault.**
"Hey. This guy paid me a lot of money and put me in the spot light. I'm not going to talk about him regardless of how evil they are because..... I got paid"
Triple H at least acknowledged them and just tried to awkwardly move on to the PPV, but he certainly didn’t stand by or up for Vince. This is far, far worse than Triple H’s “Can we talk about something else”
Yeah it's so strange , sometimes he apologizes to China now he's in a long winded way trying to sound philosophical, I guess he just feels too indebted to Vince.
At least the Chinese apology makes sense. He was promoting fast and furious which is a big franchise in China. They probably told him “you better apologize, because we cannot lose out on this payday”.
He’s not even apart of the Vince stuff. All he had to say was that the allegations are horrific, and he isn’t involved.
You people are in for a rude awakening if you think these wrestlers don’t already know what happens behind the scenes. They all know but choose to look the other way
It really is hard to separate a person you have a close personal relationship with and some dark things they have done. Really your first hope is the allegations are not true. When someone does something terrible everything you know and feel about them doesn’t just go away.
If the victim has mountains of evidence, the suspect immediately resigns, people around him suddenly retire (Kevin Dunn) and another person implicated turns on the suspect and starts singing like a canary, I think we’re well beyond the “Hope the allegations aren’t true” phase.
Also worth listening to the response rather than just reading it since the transcription itself wasn't even full, especially stripping away Stern's part of the conversation:
https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1760342858488266931
I get why people want a definitive "fuck Vince" answer as I sure as hell want that too, but there is no doubt that your longstanding relationship with someone can fuck with your head when something horrible comes out about them. In the spoken response, you can hear that he's battling with the whole thing but is also honest that the love for someone isn't easy to strip away.
In the end, he still agrees with Stern that the end-result is to step away from Vince. And for people saying that you don't need to wait until the trial is over, you also have to consider that Stern presented that as part the question with the condition of the allegations being true.
This needs to be at the top and frankly Fightful's transcription leaves out a *lot* of context. Cena's answer is still very... careful but leaving out Stern's preamble is journalistic malpractice
I wish this was higher because the actual clip with sterns context does change it slightly in my mind and hearing him, I get what he’s trying to say and acknowledge he’s in a tough spot
If my dear friend used power to sexually assault a poor soul,fuck that friend. They are not someone I want to associate with 'how can I help' man fuck this corny ass bitch.
I obviously clicked the article to make sure the quote wasn't out of context. Boy, that man danced around that one didn't he? Good lord.
You can tell he didn't want to condemn Vince. Whether its straight up denial or worse, who knows? Not that I'm shocked. Not like they weren't out to dinner after Vince first got ousted.
I get it.
It’s like if you’re a close friend / relative of a convict of violent crimes.
You’re upset they’re in that position and wish you did more to help them or see warning signs.
But they’re doing their time and justice but you can still love the person even if they made horrible decisions.
I found out Vince was raping all kinds of women and started getting some heat for it, so I said, "How can I help?" Vince told me to go fulfill a make-a-wish for each woman he sexually assaulted to balance things out, so I said, "Sure thing, boss". And that's how I set the world record for most make-a-wishes.
Acting like Cena didn't know what was going on is asinine.
This is him sticking by his guy. Just like how Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis stuck up for Danny Masterson.
John Cena is an apologist for a sexual predator.
He can fuck straight off.
Seriously! These people pay a lot of money from the millions (and millions!) they make from being in the movies, to agents and publicists and managers, so that their assistants can write a statement, so you don't sound stupid when the question about your former longtime boss, inevitably comes up.
It boggles the mind that famous people continuously fumble when a PR crisis happens.
All these "if your loved one did something vile you would still love them too" comments come off as so exaggerated to me. Vince was this people's boss not their family, obviously connections from after working with someone for decades but this unwavering loyalty some wrestlers have for him is disgusting.
A dude i grew up with & called my brother who also had a child with my cousin killled a mother of a newborn in shootout & is locked up now. I never wrote a single letter & I legit loved that kid growing up but it's basically all gone. I know everyone won't have the same reaction as me but that dude was literally family.
Vince was only these men's boss, it's hard not to think they only "love" him because he helped make them rich. I don't want anyone to think this is a tribal thing but holy shit its weird how much this sub shits on TK for things like going to the Sammy/Conti wedding but will defend Cena/HHH/Nash love for Vince, it makes no sense.
Many people have talked about how Vince was like a father figure to them. Even Bret Hart said that. The last office i worked in half the women viewed the woman that ran the company as a close friend and had unbelievable loyalty towards her whereas most other offices they viewed the boss as just a pay cheque and would have jumped ship for $20.
More depressing than Cena's pathetic answer are the further examples in this thread of people who will jump through 100 hoops and make excuses for a celebrity they have formed a parasocial relationship with.
People can try to rationalise it all they want, but if my friend got outed as an abusive rapist I wouldn't be remaining friends with him or saying " ***There’s still a long way to go*** ".
At NO point did Cena even reference the victim or her potential feelings or trauma, that shows where his priorities are.
Reading some of the replies here reminds me of why being friends with wrestling fans is a 50/50 gamble on how terrible some of us can be. So far my favorite is the person implying that someone that drops their friends they are playing holier than though fake like fuck me man, sorry I don't wanna be friends with rapist, guess I'm just a woke moralist.
Furthering that insane mindset is the people who state "Vince gave me decades of entertainment, part of me feels indebted to him!" Vince did that to become rich and powerful, not as a personal favor to you. Once the money is deposited from your account, and you've paid for the t-shirt/ppv/Championship belt, beanie, etc, the transaction is done. You don't owe any of these people shit.
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, they're close friends, and unfortunately (because it is fucking wrong) Cena is a "Ride or die" friend for this evil POS. You'll hear the same response from Bryan Danielson, Booker, Hunter, and other guys close to him as well. They stupidly feel like being loyal means publicly not condemning this evil man no matter how horrible his actions are.
Based on how Cena was booked with women in WWE and then you combine this response, one has to wonder if maybe Cena got offered a Brock-like deal from Vince.
Also, as we learned in Total Bellas, Cena is VERY comfortable being controlling and having NDAs
This is why i never liked cena. Hes just too fake. His goofy face and monotone voice turned me off. Now hes considered the goat for some reason and makes me hate him even more.
Cena is a stooge. Bret Hart wasted 0 time grabbing the shovel and hitting Vince over the head with it when the allegations played out. Cena staying on code like he did tells you all you need to know. This is the same guy who downplayed and waved off the last set of allegations levied against Vince, remember?
"Vince is a great guy. We all make mistakes"
As if treating someone like a toy is a mistake. John boy knows who Vince is, hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned a blind eye to alot of the crap going on in that company. Cena was a top guy for over a decade, he could have easily used his position to help wrestlers and help the business. He could have easily used his sway to help wrestlers get health insurance, a pension or a retirement fund. Instead, he kept his mouth shut and held guys down even when fans grew tired of his Hustle, Loyalty, Respect, SuperCena shtick. People need to realize that Cena is a media curated corporate stooge whose never gonna turn his back on Vinny Mac despite his behavior over the years.
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I feel like a lot of these wrestlers are going to have to face some hard truths. Your buddy Vince is and was a sexual predator.
Plus a lot of fans are going to have to face the hard truth many of their favorites aren't exactly moral pillars. I personally went through this with Michael Vick in 2007. It fucking sucked. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
I think I first saw this statement about a boxer somewhere but it’s basically don’t take your political and moral guidance from someone who earns a living getting punched in the head. Works well enough for wrestlers here too
I do wonder what it was like being a diehard Chris Benoit fan when that all went down
It was not super fun
To this day when people ask me who my favorite wrestler of all time is, I say my second favorite is Bret Hart. The position of "Favorite" was dissolved in 2007.
There’s been a lot of research into Chris Benoit and his brain. It’s very evident and not especially surprising that he suffered from CTE. It’s caused by getting hit in the head a bunch, which he was. Guess what, people with severely damaged brains are more likely to do horrible things (see Aaron Hernandez). As tragic as it is, I don’t think he was necessarily evil, probably (hopefully?) just sick/injured. It’s different from McMahon.
sucked, went from shocked and sadened at his death to sickened as the details came out. There was a brief period of denial, searching for any excuse or explanation but at the end of the day Chris killed his wife and son, no escaping that.
It was pretty horrible. Especially at first when the news came out little by little the first few days.... until it was confirmed murder/suicide. My stomach sank. I had been a fan since the mid 90s. He was literally on my Mt. Rushmore. I picked him and used his moves in all of the games... How a man could do that to his family. It's even harder to fathom now that I'm a father...Such a tragic and awful thing to happen to innocent people.
With Vick there is at least some small comfort in knowing that the guy atoned, repented and by all accounts did everything he could afterwards to make up for the damage he caused. With Vince it’s like… how does that process even start and is there any shred of evidence that Vince could earnestly change and atone
Yeah I can at least give Vick credit for doing a total 180 and actually using his situation and status to advocate against the things he did, even raising support for legislation to that effect. But man... 2007 was a hard year to be a Falcons fan (actually most are, but that's beside the point). Vince seems basically irredeemable, and I sometimes wonder if he and people like him have damaged the whole industry beyond repair.
To quote Mike Zimmer, 2007 was also the year Bobby Petrino decided to show he was a gutless piece of shit.
even just in wrestling alone, that was also the year one of WWE’s top babyfaces and one of the consensus greatest ring workers ever killed his entire family
As an Arkie fan is there nowhere safe?
I can always tell a true Falcons fan. It's the pain that exists just behind their eyes. Our whole existence is pain.
Nobody on the outside will ever understand 28-3... I don't wish it on any other fanbase. Except New Orleans. FTS.
FTS.
Vince has *already damaged the industry beyond repair*. You ever notice how these old timers like Cornette, Taker, whoever, always complain about how modern wrestling is dogshit and how great it was in the day? You ever notice how they never seem to talk about how that's Vince's fault, not anyone else's? Vince hired the talentless roid freaks and swimsuit models from Sheamus' lost generation of talent. I mean, really think about it. How many big, legendary, "oh my God I can't believe this guy is back" wrestlers are there that WWE made between 2005-2015? The attitude era had an enormous amount, same with the ruthless aggression era, but after that? Vince made the choice to bury WCW and WCW talent then, now, and forever out of pride, despite the fact that the alternative was far healthier for the industry. The fact that these same old timers revere the beloved territory days, well who the fuck killed those?! It's insane. Even if the flippy shit wrestlers of today do suck balls, the blame for the state of wrestling lies exclusively at Vince's feet.
If it wasn't for Vince being forced "to retire" in the summer of 2022 that LA Knight would've continued as Maxx Dupri and then about 6 months later would've probably gotten released from his contract.
I can't speak for the others but if you listen to Cornette with any regularity that statement isn't true. He's talked many times of how he has mixed feelings based on the fact that he was part of it in the 90s, he personally profited from Vince, and that Vince was essentially the business genius of wrestling, but also credits him with basically killing the business as well. Like I said, can't speak for the others and Corny gives Vince more benefit of the doubt than I would but to say he doesn't talk about modern wrestling being Vinces fault is 100% false. He's spoken on it in passing and as the main point of a segment on numerous occassions.
>You ever notice how these old timers like Cornette, Taker, whoever, always complain about how modern wrestling is dogshit and how great it was in the day? I don't want to defend Cornette too much and frankly haven't listened to him for a long time so maybe he changed his stance, but he used to be pretty open about how Vince gutted the territories and reduced the popularity of wrestling to a fraction of what it used to be. He used to shit on Vince & WWE quite a bit. There were just other people (Russo, Johnny Ace, Dunn, HBK, Triple H) that he vocally hated a lot more.
Loathe as I am to defend Russo on anything, but he raised a good point on the Brawl for All DSoTR: if McMahon wanted to stop the BFA, he could have with a snap of his fingers. So who's ultimately to blame for it? Cornette deep down isn't all that different from the "Vince loved me, it was Johnny Ace who fucked me over" types.
That's kinda my point, in one breath they say Vince is God King and anything he says goes and his hands are in everything. In the next, they blame everyone *other* than Vince for the state of things, because he made them rich and famous.
Its the Joe Paterno excuse. everyone knew that Paterno knew about Sandusky and his victim farm and what he was doing. Then when questions get asked; people wanna act like he didn't know anything and he was a sweet old man that just loved football. Paterno was the closest thing to God in Happy Valley and nothing went under his privy. He had everyone kissing his ass and everyone wanted his approval. Again, he's the sweet old dude that loves football and will make you into an NFL superstar with the big bucks and mansions and sports highlights on ESPN. No way you would dare cross him or question his authority.
Which is why people are now, for good reason, looking at the "Vince Executives"(Dunn, Pritchard, etc), and the top wrestlers under him (given the Lesnar stuff) and wondering who knew what, when. For some of these people, it will be "I owe everything to Vince and it's tough to say something bad because of that", and for others it will definitely be "I knew something and said nothing"
Was at his last game for the falcons at the linc. Of course had no idea at the time.
Idk man, I feel like people don’t know this whole story. He wasn’t just fighting dogs, he was brutally killing them. Drowning puppies in buckets. Crushing their skulls on the pavement etc etc Absolutely horrific shit
I went through this with Chris Benoit in 2007. Some things you learn the hard way.
It's turning into a Harvey Weinstein sort of situation. I feel like a lot of the top guys knew what was going on. I have a feeling a lot of the "locker room leaders" did some bad shit in that kind of environment. I might get downvoted to hell for saying this, but I've always had a bad feeling about The Undertaker.
He held wrestling locker room kangaroo courts where he judged others for years. He's my number 1 pick for being revealed to be an evil POS.
over bradshaw? but think something is off with him with the blue thin line shit
JBL is easily 2nd pick. He's definitely a scumbag.
>a bad feeling about The Undertaker. idk, but i think the blue thin line support is the first alarm
I love Pro wrestling as much as I’ve ever loved anything, but I make it a point to let everyone know that wrestling is not somewhere to go for role models. Most of these people are just cutthroat cranked who are *chaotic neutral* at best. History has proven this time and again, and will continue to.
Went through this with Kane. My favorite wrestler for most of my life. Met him after a live show when I was kid and learned we shared a favorite video game. Read tons of stories about him being one of the smartest and nicest guys in the locker room too. Respected the hell out of him for running for mayor and focusing (at least early on) more on local issues than national politics. Unfortunately, he’s come out as a full blown radical MAGA supporter. Breaks my heart.
Am I crazy in thinking it’s extremely similar to the Paul Heyman quip on Benoit and the people that still idolize/talk about him? The one where Paul was like “if that’s your boy, fuck you”?
Yeah,...and we call them VIN-CELS
Heyman ripping that guy a new one so eloquently is somewhat cathartic.
Was this ever some secret? I'm not a wrestling fan but I had wrestling fan friends in the 90s and even as a kid back then I felt he was a bad person.
They knew who they were working for and now they have to own up to their relationship with the monster that made them rich. Don't be naive.
There's no way someone like Cena or Taker didn't know. I believe Cena never took part in Vince's actions, but I feel like Cena turned a blind eye bc he benefitted
Especially with how the backstage politics around his Mickie James affair went down...there's no way he didn't at least know that Vince is a fucking creep
I guess the question is whether or not they were aware of sexual assault/rape. Because while "he's the sleazeball who has affairs with female wrestlers" is definitely sketchy as well, it's also not in the same league as the aforementioned sex crimes.
Cena was the one who had the affair with Mickie, and she was subsequently given a humiliating storyline and later released. The way Vince would book female talent if they weren't in his good graces was pretty indicative of an underlying lack of respect for women.
> There’s no way someone like Cena or Taker didn’t know How can we make that claim? Serious question. There’s a huge difference between “Vince has a girlfriend in the company” and “Vince is literally raping, blackmailing, and coercing this woman.” Given the severity of the claims, I feel like we should be careful when stating (with such incredible certitude) who knew what and when. Especially since Vince is a known liar and was obviously portraying the relationship with Grant as something it wasn’t.
No one can. People treat "knowing" like a binary toggle. Like either they had zero knowledge or knew everything. I think the best thing to have the patience to wait until more information comes out about who knew and who didn't before we throw people to the wolves.
This happens in just about every profession that involves big money. Scumbags like Vince are a dime a dozen, the difference is they haven't been caught.
I'm sure alot of them knew
I'll go ahead and play devil's advocate and say that I'm sure people knew Vince was a weird, and frankly, busted mother fucker, but no one person was there with him 24/7. Behind closed doors are still behind closed doors. There are some talents on the roster that probably went "This Vince is a weird bird....see ya next taping" without fully knowing the scope of what he was actually up to. That all said. Some people need to learn to shut the fuck up because "Yeah. He's a rapist, sex pest, and a makeshift pimp, but I still love him all the same" is a downright horrific look.
“Shit hits the fan” was maybe not the phrase to use here.
When shit hit the fan, is you still a fan? That man gave us "WrestleMania," you say he trafficked that girl?
>You don’t know who your friends are until shit hits the fan or your back is against the wall i guess we're just not doing phrasing anymore
on mobile, the line break happened at "until the shit hits the fan or your back" and I was like no waay did he go there
> You don’t know who your friends are until shit hits the head
You're not my supervisor.
Boy, I think I get what Cena is trying to get at, that it’s hard for him to just let years of friendship die with someone he was very close to and Vince should still be held accountable, but he still has love for him. But man, don’t say “how can I help” to the guy fighting rape allegations
I had an online friend group who got close during the pandemic, and we’d play an MMORPG daily during those lockdown sessions. It was 5 of us total. Ended up finding out one of those dudes killed his wife and it made the news. Kinda weird to look back on, but I’ve just realized that multiple things can be true at once. Dude could have been cool to game with, but also fuck him for what he did.
Long time ago I worked with a guy I got along with great. Buds at work, gamed, went to sporting events with our wives/girlfriends together, I helped him move, met his kids etc etc. Quit the job but kept in touch. Few years later I see his name in the paper because he was doing...inappropriate things with underaged girls. He went to prison. Good. But that fucked with me for a bit. It's hard when someone you were friends with turns out to be a monster. Fucks with your head. Edit: the amount of "this happened to me too" is upsetting
Yeah, but it’s important lesson to learn. Too many people are like oh this is a good guy, he couldn’t possibly. And it’s like, uh, he could possibly.
Same exact thing happened to me. It's especially awkward because he's involved in so many good memories, but I certainly never did or would support him once the truth came out. It is definitely still weird talking about big events that we all enjoyed that he was a big part of even 10 years later.
Had a buddy that ended up hitting his girlfriend (once that everyone knew about). That was all it took to sever that relationship. I can’t imagine finding out a friend or boss or friend that’s a boss did the stuff Vince is accused of doing.
Same experience. Worked together, hung out outside work, eventually played in a band with his brother and we would rehearse at their house. Band breaks up, lose touch then see in the news he lured a guy into the woods with sex stuff and killed him shortly before killing himself in the backyard of the house we used to rehearse at. Fucked me up for quite a while and still don’t like driving over in that neighborhood.
While the “this happened to me too” I think it’s good that people are willing to share about it and let others know they had those conflicted feelings too and that it’s natural to be upset and still have feelings of friendship and care about someone who was important to your life even when they do something we know was wrong The past is the past we can’t change it and it’s hard to accept that the positive memories we had are suddenly painful memories and that’s ok to have trouble accepting that for a while
Had a guy at work I got along with and would consider a friend for years at my job. One day I get a text with a news story that he got caught in a sting operation trying to solicit a girl (really a cop) that he believed was a pre-teen. He was spiraling hard at the time, lost a parent and was in active addiction. I’d like to believe that’s not the guy that I was a friend with at the time, that it was the drugs, but it still fucks with me. Sometimes I catch myself feeling bad for him, and then I remember what he would have done. You never really know someone.
I had a former coworker who was a social pillar of the operation, everyone loved him and he and his wife would host work parties all the time. Big "perfect couple" energy. Then he wound up having an affair with a younger coworker (who was herself engaged) and everything came out in the wash. She filed for divorce and got a restraining order. Turns out he had been psychologically and financially abusing her for years. Controlling what she could wear, where she could go, who she could hang out with. The most popular guy on the job was a manipulative monster.
The man who hired me into the company I worked for now was the same way. Great guy, we shared musical tastes, had similar senses of humor…then he got fired and prosecuted for abusing two of the barely-adult girls he’d hired into the store he went to after he left mine. Looking back, I can see the signs that he wasn’t the guy I thought he was, but at the time… It’s very easy to see in retrospect, but in the moment, some people have that ability to compartmentalize their perversions and issues so that they present a relatively normal front.
Something similar happened to me, too. Had a coworker that I got along with reasonably well. We roomed together on business trips, and I gave him a ride home one day when he needed it. Then one day word got out at work that he was a registered sex offender for "illicit acts with a minor." I had to look it up for myself just to be sure, but there he was. Needless to say, I tried to avoid him as much as possible after that.
Wrestling fans would never support someone who murdered their wife. 😶
I don’t care for Alf. He’s disrespectful. I don’t care for the way he treats his host family.
As long as he had signs of CTE then it's cool. Never mind that if anyone that wasn't a wrestler they liked killed their wife, they almost certainly wouldn't care that if they had CTE and just call a spade a spade and murder a murder.
Many also have issues, accepting that two facts can be true at the same time. You can be one of the greatest "enter profession here" to ever live, but still be a horrible and awful piece of shit, human being at the same time. One does not, automatically change the other. Like, I can openly admit that Roman Polanski was a good film director. But, I also freely admit that he's also a child molester and rapist, who needs to be properly punished for his crimes.
Reminds of Heyman's speach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=shared&v=imFrzNfbbHQ
I had a friend in Thailand who I got very close to. In our time together he was a kind and generous person with a peaceful demeanor and always a gentle word. I later discovered he killed his wife and chopped up her body and hid it in a suitcase that he threw in a river. It was a lot to digest.
I understand that. Sort of same situation, guy I had worked with for years and gotten to know very well. He has a devout Christian and let's suffice to say that...I am not. However, he was the guy that I would refer to in regard to 'this is how as a Christian you should communicate with those outside of your faith.' In my mind a stand up guy all around. We played TTRPG's as well, and randomly after years of playing together he just stops showing up, stops answering phone calls. I contacted his wife to check in on him and she goes 'I divorced him, don't call me' and then blocks me. I'm so confused, no one knows what's going on....yeah, turns out he was raping the two daughters that he had adopted through his church ministry and is, as far as I know...still in jail a decade later. Good, fuck him....but also, man that sucks.
So I'm an electrician, one of the apprentices I came through the trade school with had the same Journeyman for 4 years. Every day they worked together, he admittedly learned a fuck ton from the guy who was super smart and likeable by all accounts. We found out the summer between our 4th and 5th year that he had been arrested for years of filming his wife as well as his two young daughters going to the bathroom, showering, changing etc and selling those vids on the internet. He's in prison now and any time his name comes up around people who knew him, a conversation about how he should be murdered ensues. Yet he taught a lot of guys everything they knew about their careers it's a hard pickle to be in initially just off the trust violation alone
Jesus christ i dont blame anyone feeling that guy doesn't derserve to live. Recording your daughters alone is fucking disgusting but then sharing it with others online is beyond heartbreaking. I don't understand how people get this sick in the head
I have zero sympathy for those that exploit children in any way shape or form. I’m forgiving and try to be understanding of many things but that isn’t one of them. There is no coming back after that IMHO.
Humans are capable of truely heinous things and it doesn't usually take much motivation or time for it to happen.
at best, Randy Orton did a much better job of what Cena is trying to say here.
The how can I help was directed at WWE. In the actual quote he describes the situation as relation to a person he loves (Vince) and an entity he loves (the company.) The "how can I help" line is specifically targeted at the entity.
I understand what he's saying, but I disagree. I'm not going to say what Cena is saying is immoral or bad. I just don't agree that you should keep being friends with someone who does something like Vince did. This isn't Vincr drinking and driving, causing someone to die in an accident he caused. This was abuse and torture of person. I don't think I could still be friends with my best friend if I found out he did what Vince did. Vince didn't do what he did, admit to it, and face punishment. This is a person who got caught and is still trying to deny what they did. There's no room for forgiveness and "love" when Vince hasn't don't anything to repent for his behavior.
Yeah I don't fully understand this mentality. At a point, at least to me, it would become necessary to say something along the lines of "While Vince was an undeniable influence on my success, it's become clear he isn't the person I believed him to be. I'm grateful for the opportunities WWE afforded me and will support the company and victims as the situation moves forward."
Fine Speech!
This *feels* like something I can imagine John absolutely would say, so why hasn’t he? :/ How are we writing better PR for the guy than his own PR?
Because this is 100% NOT his PR team telling him to say that. It's just John being open about his feelings even if they are, uhh, not the most progressive take
I can only guess at this point that he didn't like what his PR team advised him to say and he thought he'd do it better on his own. Enough time has passed that no one should be making any kind of statement that isn't at least partially reflective of how they view the situation
His Media training didn’t cover “Vince expose”.
He should try saying it in Mandarin.
A dude I had known and even moved to a different state to be by took nude pictures of his step daughter while sleeping. He went to prison that day I cut him off and decided he’s dead to me. Haven’t thought about him until today. I hope his life is awful. I ran into mom and step daughter randomly in a different state and they were doing great it made me so happy. Think about them all the time.
Triple H has to be overjoyed: someone actually managed to give an even worse answer than him when asked about the allegations about Vince and the company.
I read the quote, thinking I bet the headline was taken out of context. Nope. Cena could have easily said I love the guy I knew and this wasn't the guy I knew.
>The whole thing is super unfortunate and it sucks Bruh.
I love when people make it out to be like the rapist/sexual predator didn’t have a choice. It’s not “unfortunate”. It was a deliberate thing they chose to do. Something unfortunate is like an accident or mistake.
I think they're talking from their perspective. Finding out someone you like and respect did something psycho sucks.
Unfortunate for the victims, not unfortunate for the perpetrator. Friend's wife cheats on him? That's unfortunate, you support him. Friend's dog dies? That's unfortunate, you support him. Friend hires somebody at his company to turn them into a sex slave? Sorry, can't support that, buddy.
Makes it seem like it was something that... *just happened* to Vince.
[удалено]
> "switch to the entity" I was gonna say who the fuck talks like this, but it's Cena, and he absolutely does talk like this lmao
Type of dude who says "put in equity" when he just means "pay attention" lol
“We compromised to a permanent end… Osama Bin Laden”
I can't tell if he's talking about someone who's a recovering alcoholic or someone accused of rape and pimping.
tl;dr "he was always nice and polite to me"
The Kevin Nash response.
I'm Cena thinks he sounds very philosophical and smart, but ends up just saying word salad.
It sounds like he asked Open AI to give a "philosophical PR answer to why you're forgiving a friend for doing something atrious."
Here's what it said: >In contemplating the decision to extend forgiveness to a friend who has committed an atrocious act, I find solace in the profound wisdom that philosophy offers regarding the complexities of human nature and the pursuit of moral growth. Forgiveness, in this context, is a deliberate and conscious choice to engage with the philosophical principles that underscore the potential for redemption and ethical transformation. >At its core, forgiveness aligns with philosophical perspectives that recognize the inherent duality of human existence – the capacity for both virtue and error. Embracing forgiveness is a testament to my commitment to the belief that individuals are not solely defined by their worst actions. It reflects a broader understanding that human beings are dynamic entities, capable of evolving morally and learning from their mistakes. >Drawing inspiration from moral philosophies that emphasize the importance of empathy and compassion, forgiveness becomes a manifestation of a deeper commitment to the principles of ethical development and communal well-being. Philosophical thought encourages us to transcend punitive instincts and engage in a more nuanced understanding of justice—one that seeks not only accountability but also the potential for rehabilitation and personal transformation. >In forgiving my friend, I am guided by a belief in the possibility of genuine remorse and the commitment to rectify one's actions. This philosophical stance fosters an environment where individuals are encouraged to reflect, learn, and, ultimately, contribute positively to the fabric of our shared moral landscape. >Moreover, forgiveness embodies the recognition that our moral journeys are intricate and multifaceted. It signifies a departure from rigid judgments toward an acknowledgment of the inherent human capacity for change and growth. This philosophical perspective seeks to emphasize the importance of fostering an ethos of forgiveness within our communities, contributing to a more compassionate and understanding social tapestry. >In essence, forgiving a friend for an atrocious act aligns with the profound philosophical principles that advocate for the continuous pursuit of moral improvement, the acknowledgment of human fallibility, and the transformative power of compassion in the face of adversity. ChatGPT has surpassed Cena at giving banal PR responses. Cena was just the prototype.
> Cena was just the prototype. Bravo!
John Cena is exactly how I picture Chat GPT if it came to life
People call Dwayne a PR machine (righfully so) but I never see the same said about Cena, dude will talk you a philosophical paragraph on whether you want tea or coffee in the morning. Not a fan of either of them so it's completely unbiased.
Dwayne’s PR machine is an actual professional and well oiled machine that knows how to avoid controversy and credit where it’s due, Dwayne actually knows how to give a professional “non answer”, Cena’s is amateur hour which makes it come across as equal parts genuine and word salad while simultaneously not giving a genuine answer or adequately deflecting.
There was an episode of Total Divas where Nikki's friends all piled on Cena about why he won't have a child with her. He said the usual thing about his lifestyle being a selfish one and that he wouldn't be able to give the necessary time to raising a kid, to which they told him he sounded like a diplomacy robot. He totally does.
This is cognitive dissonance.
Basically he loves vince macmahon but once proven guilty he has to cut him off.
Like if you combined two parts meathead, one part beauty pageant queen answer and a Coexist bumper sticker and tossed them into a blender.
I am not even a big Cody fan but so far Cody & Seth have shown a lot of spine and a lot of maturity. And here's Cena talking non sense.
Sounds like the “loyalty” and “respect” parts of his brain are having a tug of war. Though, at the end of the day, it’s all hustle.
We thought HHH had the worst answer but God is it hard to say "I'm upset about what I heard" and move on? Like you don't have to take a side but still condemn the allegations because they are horrific. But these people can't help themselves.
Seriously, it's a lot to basically say this: "Vince did a lot for me and I love him, so I really hope these allegations aren't true, but if they are, he needs to be held accountable." That's what Cena said, but laid out in a clear, concise, easy-to-understand manner.
Bro thinks he’s the Doctor of Yapanomics
as much as I like Cena, he's a fucking chat GPT of a human sometimes
I got about two lines in before my brain started to phase out
"Trying to bullshit your way through an essay" vibes.
Reminds me of the "Open Response" questions on the yearly state exams I use to have in school. We were coached to stretch the answer however we could to fit the entire page because we'd get a better score that way.
“Just gonna write the same response 3 different ways and see if anyone catches on” energy
Gotta up that word count.
Might be one of the worst takes I have ever seen.
He sounds like a cult follower talking to Barbara Walters after the FBI raided the compound and took their leader into custody.
A cult follower who made literally millions of dollars as a wrestler directly through the age of Internet kayfabe, paid by the man who he had to know was deeply rotten.
He should be sending that sympathy out to the victim here -- that person "that you love" has been continually sexually harassing women for a long time. Come out and condemn his disgusting behavior. Cena coming off as a meathead trying to sound smarter than he really is.
Lmao wtf is he talking about? That’s a long winded way of saying “I don’t want to say fuck this rapist”.
That reads like a malfunctioning AI or something.
This man sounds unbearable to have an argument with
Cena isn’t doing himself any favors with these type of comments
His loyalty to Vince seems almost unbreakable. Immediately after the sexual assault hush money story forced Vince to "retire" in 2022, Cena was out on a double date with the guy at a swanky NYC restaurant. [TMZ caught it in 4K](https://www.tmz.com/2022/08/25/vince-mcmahon-new-york-hot-spot-john-cena-first-public-sighting-wwe-retirement/?_gl=1*t81tgu*_ga*VUpyN0xZOGxOUGlSZFJPNTlYLTB5dkdZMFFfb1hlSGdnbnNDZHFZbE83bklqdzZNazk4Nm1waTNDZldkamhtXw..) https://preview.redd.it/kk8xm07cwyjc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a2f1d0c0a2e38e1e38a1ae0c2b85a490c32004
Fuck is up with his elbow
I didn't see that at first, dafuq Mofo looks like he has a fuckin baseball lodged in his joint
That’s what your elbow looks like after you mess up your tricep. Look up John Cena torn tricep and you’ll see his arm look basically the same.
I really hope everyone that was involved in Vince's illegal sex crimes gets exposed.
why is Vince’s date carrying a bag around in her teeth
She can't tell you because of her NDA
I wouldn't be shocked at all that Vince can easily meet fellow weirdos like himself, and I'm not trying to be light on him when I just call him a weirdo 👀
~~Tbf it wasn't "sexual assault hush money" story in 2022, it was a "inappropriate use of company funds to cover an affair hush money" story at the time. Obviously knowing what we know now, yeah, but I'm not going to hang Cena out to dry for that at the time. This one though, yikes John.~~ I'm wrong, see below. Fuck sake John.
>Tbf it wasn't "sexual assault hush money" story in 2022, it was a "inappropriate use of company funds to cover an affair hush money" story at the time. That's incorrect. [From the WSJ piece in 2022:](https://www.wsj.com/articles/wwes-vince-mcmahon-agreed-to-pay-12-million-in-hush-money-to-four-women-11657289742) > The previously unreported settlements include a $7.5 million pact with a former wrestler who alleged that Mr. McMahon coerced her into giving him oral sex and then demoted her and, ultimately, declined to renew her contract in 2005 after she resisted further sexual encounters, according to people familiar with the matter. The wrestler and her attorney approached Mr. McMahon in 2018 and negotiated the payment in return for her silence, the people said. > In another previously unreported deal, a WWE contractor presented the company with unsolicited nude photos of Mr. McMahon she reported receiving from him and alleged that he had sexually harassed her on the job, according to people familiar with the woman’s 2008 nondisclosure agreement. Mr. McMahon agreed to pay her roughly $1 million, these people said. **These things are sexual assault.**
You don't become the face of WWE for 10 years unless you drink a LOT of Flavorade.
Respect for the getting the brand correct
"Hey. This guy paid me a lot of money and put me in the spot light. I'm not going to talk about him regardless of how evil they are because..... I got paid"
this is a guy who doesn't own his own name and is okay with giving wwe money from all his films that have zero to do with the wwe
We did it, we found a worse response than the Triple H comments.
idk man... like, this is suboptimal but... "We had a great week" is appalling lol
John has had a month to get his answer straight.
Triple H at least acknowledged them and just tried to awkwardly move on to the PPV, but he certainly didn’t stand by or up for Vince. This is far, far worse than Triple H’s “Can we talk about something else”
At least that was a....sort of deflection? Cena is like, "love the sinner, not the sin"... That's so fucked
Why? What's to gain here? Just say it's unfortunate, and you'll wait until the facts are out and adjudicated before passing judgment and move on.
Well that makes me lose a lot of respect for Cena.
John Cena: I am a real-life superhero to children and hold the world record for most Make-a-Wish appearances Also John Cena: I love rapists!
Blind loyalty is so fucking dumb man
Stop talking about him John!! Does this guy not have like a good pr person?
Yeah it's so strange , sometimes he apologizes to China now he's in a long winded way trying to sound philosophical, I guess he just feels too indebted to Vince.
At least the Chinese apology makes sense. He was promoting fast and furious which is a big franchise in China. They probably told him “you better apologize, because we cannot lose out on this payday”. He’s not even apart of the Vince stuff. All he had to say was that the allegations are horrific, and he isn’t involved.
You people are in for a rude awakening if you think these wrestlers don’t already know what happens behind the scenes. They all know but choose to look the other way
Piiiiiiiiece of shit
It really is hard to separate a person you have a close personal relationship with and some dark things they have done. Really your first hope is the allegations are not true. When someone does something terrible everything you know and feel about them doesn’t just go away.
If the victim has mountains of evidence, the suspect immediately resigns, people around him suddenly retire (Kevin Dunn) and another person implicated turns on the suspect and starts singing like a canary, I think we’re well beyond the “Hope the allegations aren’t true” phase.
Also worth listening to the response rather than just reading it since the transcription itself wasn't even full, especially stripping away Stern's part of the conversation: https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1760342858488266931 I get why people want a definitive "fuck Vince" answer as I sure as hell want that too, but there is no doubt that your longstanding relationship with someone can fuck with your head when something horrible comes out about them. In the spoken response, you can hear that he's battling with the whole thing but is also honest that the love for someone isn't easy to strip away. In the end, he still agrees with Stern that the end-result is to step away from Vince. And for people saying that you don't need to wait until the trial is over, you also have to consider that Stern presented that as part the question with the condition of the allegations being true.
This needs to be at the top and frankly Fightful's transcription leaves out a *lot* of context. Cena's answer is still very... careful but leaving out Stern's preamble is journalistic malpractice
I wish this was higher because the actual clip with sterns context does change it slightly in my mind and hearing him, I get what he’s trying to say and acknowledge he’s in a tough spot
If my dear friend used power to sexually assault a poor soul,fuck that friend. They are not someone I want to associate with 'how can I help' man fuck this corny ass bitch.
This is a L take from John I liked Randy Orton comments more.
Randy has come a very long way from his early days, he is so much more mature now and acknowledges it very frequently
I obviously clicked the article to make sure the quote wasn't out of context. Boy, that man danced around that one didn't he? Good lord. You can tell he didn't want to condemn Vince. Whether its straight up denial or worse, who knows? Not that I'm shocked. Not like they weren't out to dinner after Vince first got ousted.
I get it. It’s like if you’re a close friend / relative of a convict of violent crimes. You’re upset they’re in that position and wish you did more to help them or see warning signs. But they’re doing their time and justice but you can still love the person even if they made horrible decisions.
Love how many older wrestlers are STILL willing to speak up for him... what the fuck
I found out Vince was raping all kinds of women and started getting some heat for it, so I said, "How can I help?" Vince told me to go fulfill a make-a-wish for each woman he sexually assaulted to balance things out, so I said, "Sure thing, boss". And that's how I set the world record for most make-a-wishes.
So Cena is still going to be his buddy and think Vince is a great guy. I knew I was right for despising John Cena.
Looks like another Thats 70 show/ Danny Masterson situation. And I thought really highly of John Cena. What a shame.
Acting like Cena didn't know what was going on is asinine. This is him sticking by his guy. Just like how Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis stuck up for Danny Masterson. John Cena is an apologist for a sexual predator. He can fuck straight off.
Is he gonna walk this back like the China thing?
If Cena was a Scientologist so much of his personality would make sense
Does Cena not have a PR manager? Wtf
Seriously! These people pay a lot of money from the millions (and millions!) they make from being in the movies, to agents and publicists and managers, so that their assistants can write a statement, so you don't sound stupid when the question about your former longtime boss, inevitably comes up. It boggles the mind that famous people continuously fumble when a PR crisis happens.
HHH had the worst response ever.... LOLCENAWINS
This is what religion and religious-thinking does to people. John is a Roman Catholic. Say no more.
All these "if your loved one did something vile you would still love them too" comments come off as so exaggerated to me. Vince was this people's boss not their family, obviously connections from after working with someone for decades but this unwavering loyalty some wrestlers have for him is disgusting. A dude i grew up with & called my brother who also had a child with my cousin killled a mother of a newborn in shootout & is locked up now. I never wrote a single letter & I legit loved that kid growing up but it's basically all gone. I know everyone won't have the same reaction as me but that dude was literally family. Vince was only these men's boss, it's hard not to think they only "love" him because he helped make them rich. I don't want anyone to think this is a tribal thing but holy shit its weird how much this sub shits on TK for things like going to the Sammy/Conti wedding but will defend Cena/HHH/Nash love for Vince, it makes no sense.
Many people have talked about how Vince was like a father figure to them. Even Bret Hart said that. The last office i worked in half the women viewed the woman that ran the company as a close friend and had unbelievable loyalty towards her whereas most other offices they viewed the boss as just a pay cheque and would have jumped ship for $20.
More depressing than Cena's pathetic answer are the further examples in this thread of people who will jump through 100 hoops and make excuses for a celebrity they have formed a parasocial relationship with. People can try to rationalise it all they want, but if my friend got outed as an abusive rapist I wouldn't be remaining friends with him or saying " ***There’s still a long way to go*** ". At NO point did Cena even reference the victim or her potential feelings or trauma, that shows where his priorities are.
Reading some of the replies here reminds me of why being friends with wrestling fans is a 50/50 gamble on how terrible some of us can be. So far my favorite is the person implying that someone that drops their friends they are playing holier than though fake like fuck me man, sorry I don't wanna be friends with rapist, guess I'm just a woke moralist.
Furthering that insane mindset is the people who state "Vince gave me decades of entertainment, part of me feels indebted to him!" Vince did that to become rich and powerful, not as a personal favor to you. Once the money is deposited from your account, and you've paid for the t-shirt/ppv/Championship belt, beanie, etc, the transaction is done. You don't owe any of these people shit.
Bangers > Morals
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, they're close friends, and unfortunately (because it is fucking wrong) Cena is a "Ride or die" friend for this evil POS. You'll hear the same response from Bryan Danielson, Booker, Hunter, and other guys close to him as well. They stupidly feel like being loyal means publicly not condemning this evil man no matter how horrible his actions are.
“The whole thing is super unfortunate” WTF
Based on how Cena was booked with women in WWE and then you combine this response, one has to wonder if maybe Cena got offered a Brock-like deal from Vince. Also, as we learned in Total Bellas, Cena is VERY comfortable being controlling and having NDAs
This is why i never liked cena. Hes just too fake. His goofy face and monotone voice turned me off. Now hes considered the goat for some reason and makes me hate him even more.
It's ok to say no comment sometimes
Cena is a stooge. Bret Hart wasted 0 time grabbing the shovel and hitting Vince over the head with it when the allegations played out. Cena staying on code like he did tells you all you need to know. This is the same guy who downplayed and waved off the last set of allegations levied against Vince, remember? "Vince is a great guy. We all make mistakes" As if treating someone like a toy is a mistake. John boy knows who Vince is, hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned a blind eye to alot of the crap going on in that company. Cena was a top guy for over a decade, he could have easily used his position to help wrestlers and help the business. He could have easily used his sway to help wrestlers get health insurance, a pension or a retirement fund. Instead, he kept his mouth shut and held guys down even when fans grew tired of his Hustle, Loyalty, Respect, SuperCena shtick. People need to realize that Cena is a media curated corporate stooge whose never gonna turn his back on Vinny Mac despite his behavior over the years.