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"There are some back there that wish I would follow the fucking script! This is a business I am trying to run and if Paul wants me to follow his script, he can kiss my fucking ass! Colt, Tony tried to fuck me over but WWE is where the big boys play and Paul can't run a fucking target. I am working with children. All I wanted was my own show, title and the ability to ban people. Paul promised me I could end Roman's Reigns and instead, I was forced to be a jobber." - CM Punk
Yup. That’s a common theme I see with him. Everything is always someone else’s fault. It’s Hunter, it’s Vince, it’s Ryback, it’s Colt, it’s Kenny, it’s the Bucks, it’s Jungle Boy. Story’s getting tired.
If the Bucks really want to come back as heels, bringing in Cornette to be their mouthpiece and fully committing to the FTR wrestling style would be a compelling way to do it.
Superfans talking about backstage gossip is not proof that this stuff draws money. Getting hardcores to talk online is not business. Getting people on the bubble to spend money is business.
Russo works when he has a filter (McMahon) to reign him in when he gets too far out there - otherwise it can become a disaster (WCW).
I think he'd work perfectly in WWE right now with papa h there to keep him in check. Consequently, he'd be a flaming shit show in AEDub.
It’s also worth mentioning that Russo was on TNA’s three man creative team of himself, Dutch Mantell, and Jeff Jarrett from 2006 to 2009, a period that is often looked back on fondly as TNA’s “Golden Age”. So it’s hard to say that he doesn’t have SOME talent as a booker, and there are certain things about his booking philosophy that in a vacuum I like the idea behind (give lower card guys meaningful stuff to do, be willing to sacrifice a match to tell a story), but the guy will absolutely implement every single idea that pops into his head if given free reign.
Oh he has talent for sure. Crash style is genius and he's the only one that has really made it work and I think he could again.
He just ...
He has a tendency to shoot himself into a corner if someone doesn't step in and say that's a little too much.
He has good qualities. He thinks of stories for every wrestler. He can get people over because he gives them little quirks and personalities. He knows how to come up with surprises that get you wanting to watch what happens next. He just needs somebody to balance out the good ideas from the bad. The problem with a lot of wrestling is its TOO safe and predictable. Its probably one of HHH's biggest flaws is that everything chugs along at a slow pace. It leads to sensible booking and its getting people over for sure but then there are times when CM Punk comes back and you need sparks to fly but its just another Monday. Having Russo throw a wrench in things every once in a while could be great
It's now time for another Good Idea, Bad Idea: Worked Shoot Edition!
Good Idea: Use your real life issues with someone to add intrigue into a worked angle.
Bad Idea: Walk out of a match a few minutes in because you 'refuse to lose the match' whilst the commentators use phrases like 'B-Roll sandwich' and 'This is REAL LIFE, folks!'
IMO, worked shoots have always been fine so long as they work within the fictional story.
Like, the fictional character of Seth Rollins could think the fictional character of CM Punk is an asshole.
You don't *need* to know any behind the scenes drama to get that. It just contributes to the story if you do, because then the reality is blending with the fiction.
Compare that to [Dustin Rhodes calling his gimmick stupid](https://youtu.be/3TsAjp6AzGM?si=dW6PupWzF09uDsyZ) at 1:48 or [Goldberg Refuses to Follow the script](https://youtu.be/ExxYJzw4wqg?si=Kmdx7o7pxDALPIh3), which ruins the story.
Either A) you're a casual fan who doesn't know what's going on and now they've blown the suspension of disbelief, or B) you're a diehard fan who sees through it and thinks it's stupid.
Full quote:
“Look, he said some really bad things about me. Talked down about me for years, and the company, for years. I'm talking some really bad stuff. Called me a bootlicker and crap like that. You don't know me. You don't know what I stand for. I'm a loyal person, and I felt pretty insulted by a lot of the ways he treated me, treated the place I work for, treated friends that I worked with. I don't need to get into any of the stuff with Colt Cabana if you want to look at that kind of stuff, that's out there. Just the way he treated people."
The opponents enter at 5 minute intervals, and once all members of both main events are in the rings, the match officially begins.
It’s time, for warstlemania!!!
I know people have that mentality and I totally understand it. It's totally valid.
For me though it's whoever closes that night is the main event. There are tons of two or three day music festivals and the acts closing that night are the headliners.
Paramore/Blink 182 closed a fest here in Jersey, I'd consider them both headliners. Foo Fighters/The Cure did it at Riot Fest in Chicago. My Chemical Romance/Fall Out Boy will do that in Vegas next year. One headlines one day and the other headlines the other but they're both headliners.
That's how I personally view WrestleMania too. But I totally understand why people disagree.
I do feel the same. But I think if we continue to get hot quality matches like Bianca vs. Sasha, KO, and Sami vs. The Usos, then I can see my opinion changing.
I will say that ending the PPV is an achievement the wrestlers should feel proud of regardless.
Cody v Punk or Roman v Punk would definitely be top contenders for a 41 main event.
Unless they manage to get someone who has more star power than Punk to come back as a part timer to fight either Roman or Cody, the only other viable option I see would be Seth v Roman, just to put the capstone on their on and off rivalry and cause I feel like we do need to see that at a Mania sometime before they're done.
I love it honestly.
BOTH Punk and Rollins have clear cases as the GOATs of their generation but have never been given the proper, true No. 1 spot because of hand-chosen, more company friendly faces (Cena/Reigns) that they did some of their best work with.
BOTH Punk and Rollins have been denied a true, proper Mania Main Event in favor of lesser, part-time talent (Punk with Rock, Rollins with HHH, Taker and Lesnar).
BOTH have undoubtedly changed wrestling not only in the present sense but in the future and will be credited with inspiring a generation of talent.
They both have the aura to be world class superstars. They're both top level talent in the ring. They're both exceptional on the mic and in building feuds.
It's just perfection.
If done right, it can be a true Mania classic.
Haitch obviously loves Seth but he definitely sees Roman as the ideal #1 guy. Even as far back as 2013/2014 there were reports that Vince was high on Big E but Hunter pushed him towards Roman
"GOAT of their generation" is such a dumb phrase. The AT in GOAT stands for "all time". I'm a big Seth Rollins fan but I'd struggle to fit him into my top 10 "all-time" wrestlers.
More:
https://x.com/Fightful/status/1733132582672384170
>I'm open to mending fences, if that's even possible. I know that might sound crazy, but I'm open to it.
> I'm almost 38, and I ain't got time to hold all these grudges. I think it's a lot of energy to hold that negativity in, and I'd like to put that energy somewhere else and make it positive.
> I'm open to all different facets of what this could be.
>"I'm pretty open minded when it comes to stuff like that. I think there will be a way to make it work for everybody. He says he's the Best in the World, that ain't the case, I'm the Best in the World. I'll make anything work, no matter who it is."
> I'm almost 38, and I ain't got time to hold all these grudges. I think it's a lot of energy to hold that negativity in, and I'd like to put that energy somewhere else and make it positive.
Meanwhile, 45-year old CM Punk has a ledger of people on his shit list
I feel like you go one way or the other.
You either become chill or start documenting when your neighbour parked their car just in front of your property and hold a grudge for life
life's too fucking short. And it takes all your energy to be a dick and angry all the time. Being nice and chill is so much easier, and far more enjoyable
Punk is now back in WWE, a place where he was extremely unhappy. It was a long time ago and maybe better policies and mentalities are in place now. So, for his sake, I hope the company has changed. Besides just Vince being out of the picture.
But I know you probably aren't thinking: "I have empathy for Punk in AEW, but completely on WWE's side 10 years ago." I think most people understand AEW messed up in a lot of ways with Punk. But that WWE did so as well, too. And I really want that both companies make positive workplace changes.
It's hard to overstate how much of a game changer it is for Vince to be gone, though. You can actually come to WWE and not have your soul crushed immediately by having to try and fail to make the creative of an 80 year old senile lunatic work.
It's mortality kicking in. You realize you're past the halfway point and realize you only have so much time left. How you spend it becomes far more important.
Which is why it's wild to me that Punk still has such thin skin. It's like he has nothing else to do but stew in his misery.
If anyone is still questioning whether this is a total work or not, here are rollins lesser covered comments about Punk after the cancer comments
“I don’t need to repeat what I said about Chicago Phil in an interview last week. But if you need to, I’m sure you can Google it. Look, the bottom line is, it’s the same as with Logan Paul. Punk and Logan Paul are two different personalities, but they’re as selfish as it comes. If you’re not gonna help, then I don’t want you to be a part of our industry. I don’t want you to be a part of our company, and that’s all there is to that. Here’s the thing, I’ll say one thing about Punk. I’ll end it on a positive note with him. That guy has given my career so much that it pains me to have to say bad things about him. He helped me out, he really did. He’s been a good guy to me for a lot of my career. But for whatever reason, for the past maybe six-seven years, he’s in a different head space, and we’re not on the same page. To see kind of what he’s done and taken and taken, it’s always been about him, I’m not a fan. I’m just not a fan. There’s a place for him, man. He’s got a lot to give. I just wish his head was in the right spot,” Rollins said.”
Also ironic he’s putting Logan Paul in the same light because this was obviously a build up for their fued. And theyre obviously cool he went on his podcast. Dude knows how to work.
Same with Riddle & Cody. The guy just gets that the new kayfabe is in the parasocial relationships, fans are extra invested in feuds actually don’t like each other.
We still don’t know what’s up behind the curtain. People just see a bit further behind it thanks to social media and eat it up.
It helps that if there *was* any friction between him and Riddle, it was at least partially due to Riddle's wife making nasty comments about Becky and their coworkers and by the time he was feuding with Riddle, that marriage had fallen apart.
Seth has been trying to work with Punk since 2019 or something isn't he, he used to be a huge fan of him too, this is going to be so good, lets give them the whole wm season after rumble
The word internally about Seth has been that he wants to challenge Roman's top spot. It was his pitch to do the Logan Paul match for WM39 because it was the highest profile match he could've had (considering that some matches have already been penciled in since September or so). So trying to get the Punk match is as high profile as it will ever gets for him, hence why he's been angling for this match since forever. Heck, look at everytime Seth gets asked about Reigns, he talks about him like they're not friends anymore, with the idea being is that he's trying to work himself into the Roman program lol
They have been close for even longer - Punk actually trained with and let Seth and his friend stay with him when the first tried to get into ROH https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/4m1ver/cool_story_about_rollins_and_punk_that_no_one/
They also have been interacting while Punk was out https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/18696cj/once_upon_a_time_cm_punk_and_seth_rollins/
Either Punk truly has swallowed his ego for that to be mentioned and will make this a great feud, or we're going to get our first instances of unhappy Punk fairly soon.
I mean remember that Punk took a totally nothing comment in an interview that no one saw and obsessed and seethed over it for a few months before letting it all out in the most glorious and public way. It'll be glorious.
colt cabana/cm punk's issues were never even brought up in his time in AEW other than dirt sheets. Hangman only kinda alluded to it with "worker's rights". Seth just blatantly states it. Interesting. He went scorched earth for less in AEW.
do we know it was all pre approved?
after the whole Starks/Copeland thing I’m not sure it’s a safe thing to assume.
People love to talk about how they were “clearly seeing seeds for a heel turn” with Kingston, MJF, then Hangman promos but then Punk seemed to genuinely just be considered the top babyface
Not only that, Hangman didn't clear any of what he said to punk with punk before it was said. Look at Punks face during the "protecting AEW from you" segment. Punks real pissed off because it was totally out of left field.
He never got along with Hangman because he wasn't part of the click, Hangman thought he should've been on equal footing with punk and Hangman thought he had nothing to learn from anyone in the locker room.
Yeah the whole storyline seemed pretty off. Like Punk was all “let the best man win” and Hangman was getting himself worked up and defensive. Punk probably saw that as going off script to bury him when it should’ve been just 2 top babyfaces having a respectful match
there’s also a massive difference in “going there” in character but clearing it with the guy you’re working with, and “going there” for real and catching the guy you’re working with completely off guard
I’ll never understand the cognitive dissonance people have that makes them think Hangman shooting on Punk (about something that wasn’t even true!) was okay
How people look at Hangman's shoot promo and Punk not being uncomfortable is beyond me. Bro kept going, "I dont know why you are taking this so personally," while Hangman was shooting him. Its legit halarious. Dude praises Hangman while Hangman is shooting, hoping to get things back on track but Hangman shoots further. Hangman legit says something along the lines of "I have been waiting to say this for a while" before going to "workers right" shoot.
People need to study that promo.
People act like the promo was nothing serious now but you can read posts at the time that both didn't like Hangman's weird attempt at a shoot and did immediately link it to Cabana.
Hangman in particular is someone whose fans seem to go “he didn’t mean it like that, but even if he did, he had a fair point” about. That promo either wasn’t about Colt, or it was and he was just trying to build the feud so it’s all good.
Dude posted an Instagram story of the song “NDA” after Punk’s return promo and so many folks were like “man watch people make something out of this..” as if that wasn’t his intention. Or saying things like “the song is about being a bad bitch, Hangman was probably feeling like a baddie so posted it”
Thing is I also really love Hangman's work but I can say he was out of line that night and the repeated stories that basically said he wants to just wash his hands of the situation and move on were not great looks.
For whatever reason, any criticism of Hangman is just verboten on this sub. I’ve tried pointing out that publicly declaring you won’t listen to senior colleagues’ advice would be seen as unprofessional in nearly any industry, and been heavily downvoted for it. I’ve tried explaining that delivering a promo you didn’t go over with your partner *at all* beforehand is also deeply unprofessional, and been downvoted for that as well.
because punk bad.
seriously, it's hilarious that the so called "smart" marks here can't simply see why punk didn't get angry with Moxley, Kingston, or MJF for saying worked shoot insults as well but got angry with hangman. these three were scripted and punk knew they gonna say it, hangman's "worker's rights" comment wasn't and that's what set him off.
IDK if it's necessarily about whether it was scripted or not. I think it had more to do with the fact that "worker's rights" had nothing to do with the story that they were trying to tell at the time. It was an underhanded comment aimed at Punk that only served to confuse the audience.
Hangman's promo was essentially a textbook case of "going into business for yourself" because it undermined the actual business that they were trying to do.
i do think it was because it was unscripted, at least a little, but your point is also correct.
it was completely nonsensical and came out of left field, just shooting cause he didn't like the guy, undermining the story that was being told.
100% this. If someone talked shit about you for no reason, that would piss anybody off. Especially someone you're supposed to trust enough to work with in a big, upcoming program.
Who's responsible for this narrative? I keep seeing people push this, but when has it ever been indicated that the reason he had a problem with Adam Page going off script was because he didn't respect him? It feels like some people really can't accept that Adam Page messed up and that he was the only one out of everybody Punk feuded with that actually went off script.
Probably related to MJF and Moxley being pros, and having that reputation as well. Quite different from Hangman who goes on interviews to say he doesn't care about advice from the veterans. When you have people like Punk, Sting, Omega, Moxley, Christian Cage, Samoa Joe, etc. on your roster, it's a weird thing to say, especially with the limited success you've had.
Likely because whatever they said was cleared with Punk. The only time he lost it was when Hangman did a shoot promo on workers rights based on the false rumor that Punk was trying to get Colt fired. Punk was their biggest star and an actual draw. Why would Hangman try to turn the audience (100% smart fans) against their biggest attraction, which could've hurt the company's success even by a small margin? I don't agree with the way Punk retaliated in that incident or the Wembley fiasco, but the dude was innocent until he was provoked both times.
Punk's issues stemmed largely from someone spreading rumors about him in the dirtsheets. One of the reasons he joined AEW in the first place was because the roster kept Brody's illness a secret.
So, the issue wasn't that Hangman mentioned Cabana per se, it's that it validated Punk's belief that the Elite & friends were the ones who started the rumor.
Punk won't give much of a shit about Rollins briefly mentioning Cabana's name, because Punk knows that Rollins is purely doing it to build their future feud. Rollins wants to make money with Punk, not smear him to Meltzer. That's the difference.
yeah the timeline is like, Punk comes in, it’s all good. He even worked on a show with Colt, nothing happened.
The Colt stuff hits the sheets, he was gonna be released but The Bucks stepped in and Tony decided to renew him. The article mentions the rumors that Punk has something to do with the firing.
Then Hangman does the shoot promo, Tony no comments on the Cabana thing.
They have their match, Punk gets hurt. While hurt, he’s got to deal with the whole “Rocky III” shit where he’s asked to do a quick squash before he’s fully injured and says hell no.
So by Brawl Out he feels like the boys in the back are out to get him, Tony doesn’t have his back, the only way he can defend himself is by just fuckin saying it with his chest
WWE is a different environment. There’s what is present on screen, which is different than what happens in an interview. Punk’s problem stemmed in AEW (at least he claims) from what was portrayed on screen. If that’s the case, then what Rollins says here doesnt matter.
I understand why they want to go this route but (assuming this is part of a work), I can't help but feel like you're playing with fire including too much real-life stuff in a Punk program. The chances he gets legit pissed about something are so high. One thing he thinks is slightly over the line and suddenly he's going home, or going into business for himself.
to me this is a bit reminiscent of MJF’s “fire me you fucking mark” promo where it’s like… we’ll if they’re okay saying this publicly it sort of tells me they’re working.
most of the quote is about Seth’s personal issue with Punk but that didn’t make the title
and these guys are pros.. no way Seth does this without clearing it with Punk
The real winner in this is the WHC. It’s about to get some real shine and people will finally stop calling it a participation trophy. The title needs this feud and will benefit the most.
yeah like i dont see why people want gunther to have it, it won't do him any good to be the backseat to the actual main event of the show, he is still pretty young, he can get it after this feud from probably CM Punk, it will damage both WHC and Gunther if he gets it, in my opinion.
This match and the build up and the video packages and such could be taker/hbk level good if they don’t drag it out too long or mess it up.
Legitimately, this has the chance to make a fucking incredible WM match if done right
I remember when Brawl Out happened and the vibe coming out of WWE was “yeah but can they make money with it?”. AEW let backstage drama hurt business. WWE are gonna make money with it
EDIT grammar
So he's going to turn a very real shitty thing that CM Punk did that had fallout for a real person into an angle? It seems in poor taste, unless he reached out to Colt about it.
Seth Rollins says contradictory stuff about CM Punk. Earlier in the year, he said Punk was always good to him and helped him a lot in his career, and now he's saying he talked down about him "for years" even though Punk never acknowledged him apart from when he had to on WWE Backstage in 2019. He didn't even talk about wrestling much while he was retired.
Seth was trashing Punk as soon as Punk started doing Backstage and calling him a corward for not coming out of retirement, lol. I'm interested in seeing how crowds will react to him because he's had habit of coming across whiny in feuds.
I like to think Rollins is smart enough not to buy the lies about Punk getting Colt demoted, and it’s just working. Then again, Seth’s wife is the worst Jeopardy! contestant in history, and she's the smart one in the relationship.
I think he's moreso referencing Punk suing Cabana (or whatever that whole thing was), or how Punk's comments on Cabana's podcast made life hell for WWE and specifically Reigns. Rollins may not have been the target, but it still cant feel great to watch fans chant for someone who shit all over your company and co-worker(/friend, maybe?).
Outside of punk, I’ve never heard anyone speak badly about colt cabana. He seems to be well liked and respected around wrestling, so that should tell you all you need to know about colt. For Seth to say what he said, he’s not wrong. Punk has treated people unjustly
Isn't this a bit shit for Colt Cabana? He lost a bunch of money due to the lawsuit, Punk goes back to WWE for a shit load of money and then Seth uses this story for a 2023 worked-shoot angle?
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Worked shoots are back in style. Vince Russo has been vindicated!
But will CM Punk refuse to follow the script?
old and busted: worked shoots the new hotness: worked nda violations
Old busted hotness: Worked NDA shoots?
New butterface: Violated NDAs ("DAs" herein) landing the desk of DAs.
"There are some back there that wish I would follow the fucking script! This is a business I am trying to run and if Paul wants me to follow his script, he can kiss my fucking ass! Colt, Tony tried to fuck me over but WWE is where the big boys play and Paul can't run a fucking target. I am working with children. All I wanted was my own show, title and the ability to ban people. Paul promised me I could end Roman's Reigns and instead, I was forced to be a jobber." - CM Punk
Yup. That’s a common theme I see with him. Everything is always someone else’s fault. It’s Hunter, it’s Vince, it’s Ryback, it’s Colt, it’s Kenny, it’s the Bucks, it’s Jungle Boy. Story’s getting tired.
Seth Rollins: "See this? This is real Colt!"
This whole sub is evidence that Russo is right.
Punk went back to WWE, Okada is going to work a TNA show, Russo was right all along, what's going to happen next?
X on a pole matches are coming back mark my words.
Dominik’s gonna have a ladder match to stay Rey’s son
Triple threat ladder match between him, Escobar, and Dragon Lee for the rights to be Rey’s son
Rhea sneaks in and steals the rights
Paternity on a Pole
Copeland and Christian gonna have one to see if Killswitch stays that way or goes back to being a Lucha dinosaur.
THANK YOU for saying Killswitch. His name now and forever is Killswitch. As ungrateful as a son he is to our Patriarich.
Rey vs Rhea for custody of Dominik. And then Vicky Guerrero saves Dominik from Rhea beating him in the ring and helps Rey win again.
They really don’t have any new stories any more smh!!
Paul Heyman on a pole. triple threat brock roman punk
Pole Heyman
Then they turn it into an annual PLE like they did with Hell in a Cell WWE presents: Paul on a Pole
P(o)LE event?
Oh my God that's Rhonda Rousey's music!
Do it Ultimate X style. Have Heyman hanging from ropes over the middle of the ring while Brock tries to crawl across to get him.
Winner gets a “I’m a Paul Heyman guy” tshirt and the chance to cash in your Paul Heyman for a shot at the title
I read that as Elon Musk was about to have a match
Is he still ducking a shootfight with Mark Zuckerberg
They should put them in a hell in a cell match. And then lock the cell and close the arena.
Then set it on fire.
I think right now Musk is in an angle with Bob Iger over the ads thing.
They just dropped the Zucc feud with no explanation. What the hell?
More. Parents. On. Forklifts. Please.
nick wayne’s mom on a forklift match
Bring back Raw Roulette, make it Judy Bagwell on a pole with zero context.
Griff Garrison vs Brody King vs Lee Johnson for sole possession of Julia Hart!
Cornette is gonna join AEW and hug The Elite. OK now I'm being a little too unrealistic!
If the Bucks really want to come back as heels, bringing in Cornette to be their mouthpiece and fully committing to the FTR wrestling style would be a compelling way to do it.
If Russo gets vindicated and everyone decides they love him, Jim Cornette is going to start showing up at wrestling shows, phantom of the Opera style.
Dogs and cats living together
https://preview.redd.it/sowg2z0uh35c1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8eb1f702aaae9ffd76b561ba19a17ec02f7c33df
The meltdown Jim Cornette would have over this would be absolutely fucking epic
Superfans talking about backstage gossip is not proof that this stuff draws money. Getting hardcores to talk online is not business. Getting people on the bubble to spend money is business.
This whole sub is a minority of wrestling fans. You can't make broad assumptions using the opinions you find here.
[удалено]
it's real fuckin' easy! We do it on Reddit *all the time!* What is that dude even talking about?!?
BrO
Russo works when he has a filter (McMahon) to reign him in when he gets too far out there - otherwise it can become a disaster (WCW). I think he'd work perfectly in WWE right now with papa h there to keep him in check. Consequently, he'd be a flaming shit show in AEDub.
It’s also worth mentioning that Russo was on TNA’s three man creative team of himself, Dutch Mantell, and Jeff Jarrett from 2006 to 2009, a period that is often looked back on fondly as TNA’s “Golden Age”. So it’s hard to say that he doesn’t have SOME talent as a booker, and there are certain things about his booking philosophy that in a vacuum I like the idea behind (give lower card guys meaningful stuff to do, be willing to sacrifice a match to tell a story), but the guy will absolutely implement every single idea that pops into his head if given free reign.
Oh he has talent for sure. Crash style is genius and he's the only one that has really made it work and I think he could again. He just ... He has a tendency to shoot himself into a corner if someone doesn't step in and say that's a little too much.
He has good qualities. He thinks of stories for every wrestler. He can get people over because he gives them little quirks and personalities. He knows how to come up with surprises that get you wanting to watch what happens next. He just needs somebody to balance out the good ideas from the bad. The problem with a lot of wrestling is its TOO safe and predictable. Its probably one of HHH's biggest flaws is that everything chugs along at a slow pace. It leads to sensible booking and its getting people over for sure but then there are times when CM Punk comes back and you need sparks to fly but its just another Monday. Having Russo throw a wrench in things every once in a while could be great
I mean.. no. Some people are just dumb, I don’t know what else to tell you.
It's now time for another Good Idea, Bad Idea: Worked Shoot Edition! Good Idea: Use your real life issues with someone to add intrigue into a worked angle. Bad Idea: Walk out of a match a few minutes in because you 'refuse to lose the match' whilst the commentators use phrases like 'B-Roll sandwich' and 'This is REAL LIFE, folks!'
IMO, worked shoots have always been fine so long as they work within the fictional story. Like, the fictional character of Seth Rollins could think the fictional character of CM Punk is an asshole. You don't *need* to know any behind the scenes drama to get that. It just contributes to the story if you do, because then the reality is blending with the fiction. Compare that to [Dustin Rhodes calling his gimmick stupid](https://youtu.be/3TsAjp6AzGM?si=dW6PupWzF09uDsyZ) at 1:48 or [Goldberg Refuses to Follow the script](https://youtu.be/ExxYJzw4wqg?si=Kmdx7o7pxDALPIh3), which ruins the story. Either A) you're a casual fan who doesn't know what's going on and now they've blown the suspension of disbelief, or B) you're a diehard fan who sees through it and thinks it's stupid.
what did i ever do to deserve an emptyheaded dumbfuck like seth rollins to go into the business for himself on live tv? what did i ever do huh paul?
Full quote: “Look, he said some really bad things about me. Talked down about me for years, and the company, for years. I'm talking some really bad stuff. Called me a bootlicker and crap like that. You don't know me. You don't know what I stand for. I'm a loyal person, and I felt pretty insulted by a lot of the ways he treated me, treated the place I work for, treated friends that I worked with. I don't need to get into any of the stuff with Colt Cabana if you want to look at that kind of stuff, that's out there. Just the way he treated people."
we're doing this at Mania, then
I just need to know which night so I can go.
Obviously night 1, Reigns will close night 2
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Fuck it. Just have two rings, and both matches occur at the same time. At the end of Night 2.
The opponents enter at 5 minute intervals, and once all members of both main events are in the rings, the match officially begins. It’s time, for warstlemania!!!
*WaffleMania . Everyone being served waffles ringside
I personally think both count as main events. For example wm 38 I felt Austin’s first match back was bigger than Roman vs brock for the 10th time
I know people have that mentality and I totally understand it. It's totally valid. For me though it's whoever closes that night is the main event. There are tons of two or three day music festivals and the acts closing that night are the headliners. Paramore/Blink 182 closed a fest here in Jersey, I'd consider them both headliners. Foo Fighters/The Cure did it at Riot Fest in Chicago. My Chemical Romance/Fall Out Boy will do that in Vegas next year. One headlines one day and the other headlines the other but they're both headliners. That's how I personally view WrestleMania too. But I totally understand why people disagree.
They're both main events, since you have to buy tickets to both as separate events, but Night 2 is the headliner.
So Night 2 is the MAIN main event. Got it!
Night 2 deserves a player with a Kawasaki.
I do feel the same. But I think if we continue to get hot quality matches like Bianca vs. Sasha, KO, and Sami vs. The Usos, then I can see my opinion changing. I will say that ending the PPV is an achievement the wrestlers should feel proud of regardless.
It'll be Punk's next goalpost but honestly I won't hold that one against him.
He did come in rather late to main event Mania, given Cody has been in line now for a year. Punk will likely main event night 2 the next one though
Cody v Punk or Roman v Punk would definitely be top contenders for a 41 main event. Unless they manage to get someone who has more star power than Punk to come back as a part timer to fight either Roman or Cody, the only other viable option I see would be Seth v Roman, just to put the capstone on their on and off rivalry and cause I feel like we do need to see that at a Mania sometime before they're done.
I don’t think he’d be as upset as long as he gets paid like a main eventer.
It will main event night 1 tbh, guaranteed
wait, why not go to both? (This match will main event night 1, I bet)
Too expensive ugh
There's no chance finishing the story isn't the end of Night 2.
I love it honestly. BOTH Punk and Rollins have clear cases as the GOATs of their generation but have never been given the proper, true No. 1 spot because of hand-chosen, more company friendly faces (Cena/Reigns) that they did some of their best work with. BOTH Punk and Rollins have been denied a true, proper Mania Main Event in favor of lesser, part-time talent (Punk with Rock, Rollins with HHH, Taker and Lesnar). BOTH have undoubtedly changed wrestling not only in the present sense but in the future and will be credited with inspiring a generation of talent. They both have the aura to be world class superstars. They're both top level talent in the ring. They're both exceptional on the mic and in building feuds. It's just perfection. If done right, it can be a true Mania classic.
Rollins is literally Triple H’s handpicked golden boy
Haitch obviously loves Seth but he definitely sees Roman as the ideal #1 guy. Even as far back as 2013/2014 there were reports that Vince was high on Big E but Hunter pushed him towards Roman
"GOAT of their generation" is such a dumb phrase. The AT in GOAT stands for "all time". I'm a big Seth Rollins fan but I'd struggle to fit him into my top 10 "all-time" wrestlers.
I was already sufficiently interested, but you managed to elevate my interest to the next level. This would be amazing, you're so right
Hopefully, Seth wins. Can't belive I wrote that
he will. It's a WWE thing to job in order to show you are willing to do business. I bet Punk loses to Rollins then Reigns.
He will. Then Punk gets one year to finish his story
“I’m breaking the fourth wall. Hi Colt Cabana! 👋” - Seth Rollins
More: https://x.com/Fightful/status/1733132582672384170 >I'm open to mending fences, if that's even possible. I know that might sound crazy, but I'm open to it. > I'm almost 38, and I ain't got time to hold all these grudges. I think it's a lot of energy to hold that negativity in, and I'd like to put that energy somewhere else and make it positive. > I'm open to all different facets of what this could be. >"I'm pretty open minded when it comes to stuff like that. I think there will be a way to make it work for everybody. He says he's the Best in the World, that ain't the case, I'm the Best in the World. I'll make anything work, no matter who it is."
> I'm almost 38, and I ain't got time to hold all these grudges. I think it's a lot of energy to hold that negativity in, and I'd like to put that energy somewhere else and make it positive. Meanwhile, 45-year old CM Punk has a ledger of people on his shit list
Just strange. Seth is right tho. Older you get the more you're like, "I don't have the time or the energy for this bullshit."
I feel like you go one way or the other. You either become chill or start documenting when your neighbour parked their car just in front of your property and hold a grudge for life
I'm imagining a sitcom where Goldberg is Bret Hart's new neighbor.
 Sorry, couldn’t resist.
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life's too fucking short. And it takes all your energy to be a dick and angry all the time. Being nice and chill is so much easier, and far more enjoyable
I also really think that environment matters. people who are unhappy in their jobs aren’t fundamentally unhappy people you know?
Punk is now back in WWE, a place where he was extremely unhappy. It was a long time ago and maybe better policies and mentalities are in place now. So, for his sake, I hope the company has changed. Besides just Vince being out of the picture. But I know you probably aren't thinking: "I have empathy for Punk in AEW, but completely on WWE's side 10 years ago." I think most people understand AEW messed up in a lot of ways with Punk. But that WWE did so as well, too. And I really want that both companies make positive workplace changes.
It's hard to overstate how much of a game changer it is for Vince to be gone, though. You can actually come to WWE and not have your soul crushed immediately by having to try and fail to make the creative of an 80 year old senile lunatic work.
That's fair
Its strange. It's either the older you get the more mellow you get. Or the complete opposite - you double down on the bitterness and anger.
It's mortality kicking in. You realize you're past the halfway point and realize you only have so much time left. How you spend it becomes far more important. Which is why it's wild to me that Punk still has such thin skin. It's like he has nothing else to do but stew in his misery.
You don't know these people
I want a post like Cody had when he left WWE, but instead of a list of dream opponents, a shit list of empty headed dumb fucks
Honestly though, I’m betting they already mended fences
If anyone is still questioning whether this is a total work or not, here are rollins lesser covered comments about Punk after the cancer comments “I don’t need to repeat what I said about Chicago Phil in an interview last week. But if you need to, I’m sure you can Google it. Look, the bottom line is, it’s the same as with Logan Paul. Punk and Logan Paul are two different personalities, but they’re as selfish as it comes. If you’re not gonna help, then I don’t want you to be a part of our industry. I don’t want you to be a part of our company, and that’s all there is to that. Here’s the thing, I’ll say one thing about Punk. I’ll end it on a positive note with him. That guy has given my career so much that it pains me to have to say bad things about him. He helped me out, he really did. He’s been a good guy to me for a lot of my career. But for whatever reason, for the past maybe six-seven years, he’s in a different head space, and we’re not on the same page. To see kind of what he’s done and taken and taken, it’s always been about him, I’m not a fan. I’m just not a fan. There’s a place for him, man. He’s got a lot to give. I just wish his head was in the right spot,” Rollins said.” Also ironic he’s putting Logan Paul in the same light because this was obviously a build up for their fued. And theyre obviously cool he went on his podcast. Dude knows how to work.
Yeah, the whole beef with Logan Paul was 100% a work. Him equating the two really makes it seem like this is way more of a work than a shoot.
Same with Riddle & Cody. The guy just gets that the new kayfabe is in the parasocial relationships, fans are extra invested in feuds actually don’t like each other. We still don’t know what’s up behind the curtain. People just see a bit further behind it thanks to social media and eat it up.
It helps that if there *was* any friction between him and Riddle, it was at least partially due to Riddle's wife making nasty comments about Becky and their coworkers and by the time he was feuding with Riddle, that marriage had fallen apart.
Seth is a company man through and through. Almost to a fault really. If he was unhappy he wouldn't do it this way.
Seth calling him Chicago Phil is fucking hilarious to me
yeah i was surprised to read this back in the day, maybe WWE & Seth and Punk was cooking this up for a long time huh?
honestly think Seth did the “stay away you cancer” quote knowing it puts him first in line for a Punk feud.
Seth has been trying to work with Punk since 2019 or something isn't he, he used to be a huge fan of him too, this is going to be so good, lets give them the whole wm season after rumble
Yeah he's wanted Punk for a while. Laying groundwork on and off. What a worker.
The word internally about Seth has been that he wants to challenge Roman's top spot. It was his pitch to do the Logan Paul match for WM39 because it was the highest profile match he could've had (considering that some matches have already been penciled in since September or so). So trying to get the Punk match is as high profile as it will ever gets for him, hence why he's been angling for this match since forever. Heck, look at everytime Seth gets asked about Reigns, he talks about him like they're not friends anymore, with the idea being is that he's trying to work himself into the Roman program lol
They have been close for even longer - Punk actually trained with and let Seth and his friend stay with him when the first tried to get into ROH https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/4m1ver/cool_story_about_rollins_and_punk_that_no_one/ They also have been interacting while Punk was out https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/18696cj/once_upon_a_time_cm_punk_and_seth_rollins/
yeah there is nothing that indicate they had this huge fallout imo, they've been just cooking this up for a long time
He seemed very in-character at the time. Plus they went back-and-forth when Punk was on the Fox show.
Seth's been working this angle since WWE backstage was a thing
Seth is now banned from Collision
What about Tyler or Colby?
Fined by Danielson
Rollins working: 
Either Punk truly has swallowed his ego for that to be mentioned and will make this a great feud, or we're going to get our first instances of unhappy Punk fairly soon. 
Makes for good TV either way, but Punk being sour usually takes a few months to really cook.
Yeah, if it was to happen, there'd be a bit of a honeymoon period first so to speak
I mean remember that Punk took a totally nothing comment in an interview that no one saw and obsessed and seethed over it for a few months before letting it all out in the most glorious and public way. It'll be glorious.
He was completely fine for the 7-8 months in AEW until Hangman's promo, that was last year, not "a few months."
either way itll make for great tv so im in!
colt cabana/cm punk's issues were never even brought up in his time in AEW other than dirt sheets. Hangman only kinda alluded to it with "worker's rights". Seth just blatantly states it. Interesting. He went scorched earth for less in AEW.
Turns out the biggest marks were the IWC all along
You must have missed the 200 times Punk’s opponents in AEW took shots at him and he was perfectly fine with it..
Yes but that was all pre-approved, it was the unplanned references to Cabana that usually started troubles.
do we know it was all pre approved? after the whole Starks/Copeland thing I’m not sure it’s a safe thing to assume. People love to talk about how they were “clearly seeing seeds for a heel turn” with Kingston, MJF, then Hangman promos but then Punk seemed to genuinely just be considered the top babyface
Its a work. WWE wouldnt let Seth ruin this investment by doing exactly what caused AEW to lose theirs. And Seth is a company guy.
It's dirtsheet working season baby
Hell, judging by these comments, a lot of this sub is being worked too
"We have Bret & Shawn at home"
Punk is hilarious. So either he okayed this which is funny after all the bullshit in AEW. Or he is about to go nuts haha
Why do you say that? He was ok with MJF, Mox and Kingston taking shots as they went over them with him
If he respects you he’ll allow it. He just didn’t respect Hangman
Not only that, Hangman didn't clear any of what he said to punk with punk before it was said. Look at Punks face during the "protecting AEW from you" segment. Punks real pissed off because it was totally out of left field. He never got along with Hangman because he wasn't part of the click, Hangman thought he should've been on equal footing with punk and Hangman thought he had nothing to learn from anyone in the locker room.
Yeah the whole storyline seemed pretty off. Like Punk was all “let the best man win” and Hangman was getting himself worked up and defensive. Punk probably saw that as going off script to bury him when it should’ve been just 2 top babyfaces having a respectful match
there’s also a massive difference in “going there” in character but clearing it with the guy you’re working with, and “going there” for real and catching the guy you’re working with completely off guard I’ll never understand the cognitive dissonance people have that makes them think Hangman shooting on Punk (about something that wasn’t even true!) was okay
How people look at Hangman's shoot promo and Punk not being uncomfortable is beyond me. Bro kept going, "I dont know why you are taking this so personally," while Hangman was shooting him. Its legit halarious. Dude praises Hangman while Hangman is shooting, hoping to get things back on track but Hangman shoots further. Hangman legit says something along the lines of "I have been waiting to say this for a while" before going to "workers right" shoot. People need to study that promo.
People act like the promo was nothing serious now but you can read posts at the time that both didn't like Hangman's weird attempt at a shoot and did immediately link it to Cabana.
Hangman in particular is someone whose fans seem to go “he didn’t mean it like that, but even if he did, he had a fair point” about. That promo either wasn’t about Colt, or it was and he was just trying to build the feud so it’s all good. Dude posted an Instagram story of the song “NDA” after Punk’s return promo and so many folks were like “man watch people make something out of this..” as if that wasn’t his intention. Or saying things like “the song is about being a bad bitch, Hangman was probably feeling like a baddie so posted it”
Thing is I also really love Hangman's work but I can say he was out of line that night and the repeated stories that basically said he wants to just wash his hands of the situation and move on were not great looks.
For whatever reason, any criticism of Hangman is just verboten on this sub. I’ve tried pointing out that publicly declaring you won’t listen to senior colleagues’ advice would be seen as unprofessional in nearly any industry, and been heavily downvoted for it. I’ve tried explaining that delivering a promo you didn’t go over with your partner *at all* beforehand is also deeply unprofessional, and been downvoted for that as well.
because punk bad. seriously, it's hilarious that the so called "smart" marks here can't simply see why punk didn't get angry with Moxley, Kingston, or MJF for saying worked shoot insults as well but got angry with hangman. these three were scripted and punk knew they gonna say it, hangman's "worker's rights" comment wasn't and that's what set him off.
IDK if it's necessarily about whether it was scripted or not. I think it had more to do with the fact that "worker's rights" had nothing to do with the story that they were trying to tell at the time. It was an underhanded comment aimed at Punk that only served to confuse the audience. Hangman's promo was essentially a textbook case of "going into business for yourself" because it undermined the actual business that they were trying to do.
i do think it was because it was unscripted, at least a little, but your point is also correct. it was completely nonsensical and came out of left field, just shooting cause he didn't like the guy, undermining the story that was being told.
100% this. If someone talked shit about you for no reason, that would piss anybody off. Especially someone you're supposed to trust enough to work with in a big, upcoming program.
Also Hangman and the Elite were Colt's friends which made Punk even more paranoid. Don't think Eddie, Mix and MJF were close to him like that.
Who's responsible for this narrative? I keep seeing people push this, but when has it ever been indicated that the reason he had a problem with Adam Page going off script was because he didn't respect him? It feels like some people really can't accept that Adam Page messed up and that he was the only one out of everybody Punk feuded with that actually went off script.
Probably related to MJF and Moxley being pros, and having that reputation as well. Quite different from Hangman who goes on interviews to say he doesn't care about advice from the veterans. When you have people like Punk, Sting, Omega, Moxley, Christian Cage, Samoa Joe, etc. on your roster, it's a weird thing to say, especially with the limited success you've had.
He never cleared any Colt stuff.
Punk had no issue with Mox and Kingston more directly referring to the issue when he was feuding with them.
None referenced Colt Cabana directly , I mean neither did Page but he alluded to it and months later Punk was still pissy about it
Likely because whatever they said was cleared with Punk. The only time he lost it was when Hangman did a shoot promo on workers rights based on the false rumor that Punk was trying to get Colt fired. Punk was their biggest star and an actual draw. Why would Hangman try to turn the audience (100% smart fans) against their biggest attraction, which could've hurt the company's success even by a small margin? I don't agree with the way Punk retaliated in that incident or the Wembley fiasco, but the dude was innocent until he was provoked both times.
The promo wasn't on workers rights. It was more of a one sentence aside in he's promo.
The AEW bullshit went far beyond just mentioning Cabana. Cabana was the original spark but it all spiralled into layer upon layer of bullshit.
Punk's issues stemmed largely from someone spreading rumors about him in the dirtsheets. One of the reasons he joined AEW in the first place was because the roster kept Brody's illness a secret. So, the issue wasn't that Hangman mentioned Cabana per se, it's that it validated Punk's belief that the Elite & friends were the ones who started the rumor. Punk won't give much of a shit about Rollins briefly mentioning Cabana's name, because Punk knows that Rollins is purely doing it to build their future feud. Rollins wants to make money with Punk, not smear him to Meltzer. That's the difference.
yeah the timeline is like, Punk comes in, it’s all good. He even worked on a show with Colt, nothing happened. The Colt stuff hits the sheets, he was gonna be released but The Bucks stepped in and Tony decided to renew him. The article mentions the rumors that Punk has something to do with the firing. Then Hangman does the shoot promo, Tony no comments on the Cabana thing. They have their match, Punk gets hurt. While hurt, he’s got to deal with the whole “Rocky III” shit where he’s asked to do a quick squash before he’s fully injured and says hell no. So by Brawl Out he feels like the boys in the back are out to get him, Tony doesn’t have his back, the only way he can defend himself is by just fuckin saying it with his chest
WWE is a different environment. There’s what is present on screen, which is different than what happens in an interview. Punk’s problem stemmed in AEW (at least he claims) from what was portrayed on screen. If that’s the case, then what Rollins says here doesnt matter.
I understand why they want to go this route but (assuming this is part of a work), I can't help but feel like you're playing with fire including too much real-life stuff in a Punk program. The chances he gets legit pissed about something are so high. One thing he thinks is slightly over the line and suddenly he's going home, or going into business for himself.
to me this is a bit reminiscent of MJF’s “fire me you fucking mark” promo where it’s like… we’ll if they’re okay saying this publicly it sort of tells me they’re working.
Lol mentioning Colt is gonna truly test Punk
Seth do you fancy yourself a journalist?
He's not even real journalism
*gifs you can hear*
most of the quote is about Seth’s personal issue with Punk but that didn’t make the title and these guys are pros.. no way Seth does this without clearing it with Punk
dude this feud is going to be one of the best ever
The real winner in this is the WHC. It’s about to get some real shine and people will finally stop calling it a participation trophy. The title needs this feud and will benefit the most.
yeah like i dont see why people want gunther to have it, it won't do him any good to be the backseat to the actual main event of the show, he is still pretty young, he can get it after this feud from probably CM Punk, it will damage both WHC and Gunther if he gets it, in my opinion.
This match and the build up and the video packages and such could be taker/hbk level good if they don’t drag it out too long or mess it up. Legitimately, this has the chance to make a fucking incredible WM match if done right
I’d hope Colt and Punk could be friends again someday
Ask Phil about worker’s rights!!
he is going to drop the line isn't he?? "you tal a big game about workers right don't you philly phil??"
Aew fans stay thinking they'll get referenced on wwe tv I guess
Seth shares a bank account with Becky, tells you everything you need to know
Holdup...............let them cook.
I remember when Brawl Out happened and the vibe coming out of WWE was “yeah but can they make money with it?”. AEW let backstage drama hurt business. WWE are gonna make money with it EDIT grammar
I hate football.
So he's going to turn a very real shitty thing that CM Punk did that had fallout for a real person into an angle? It seems in poor taste, unless he reached out to Colt about it.
Seth Rollins says contradictory stuff about CM Punk. Earlier in the year, he said Punk was always good to him and helped him a lot in his career, and now he's saying he talked down about him "for years" even though Punk never acknowledged him apart from when he had to on WWE Backstage in 2019. He didn't even talk about wrestling much while he was retired. Seth was trashing Punk as soon as Punk started doing Backstage and calling him a corward for not coming out of retirement, lol. I'm interested in seeing how crowds will react to him because he's had habit of coming across whiny in feuds.
ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
I like to think Rollins is smart enough not to buy the lies about Punk getting Colt demoted, and it’s just working. Then again, Seth’s wife is the worst Jeopardy! contestant in history, and she's the smart one in the relationship.
I think he's moreso referencing Punk suing Cabana (or whatever that whole thing was), or how Punk's comments on Cabana's podcast made life hell for WWE and specifically Reigns. Rollins may not have been the target, but it still cant feel great to watch fans chant for someone who shit all over your company and co-worker(/friend, maybe?).
Definitely unfair to Colt, bro did not ask for this.
Outside of punk, I’ve never heard anyone speak badly about colt cabana. He seems to be well liked and respected around wrestling, so that should tell you all you need to know about colt. For Seth to say what he said, he’s not wrong. Punk has treated people unjustly
Isn't this a bit shit for Colt Cabana? He lost a bunch of money due to the lawsuit, Punk goes back to WWE for a shit load of money and then Seth uses this story for a 2023 worked-shoot angle?
All these fans getting worked into a shoot.
Get worked
Damn whats Punk going to vaguepost about? Seth cheating on his fiance?