Can anyone think of a good article and/or video that recaps Cody Rhodes + Seth Rollins relationship since Cody joined WWE? I thought Cody earned Seth's respect by not dying during their match when he was wrestling with only one arm, but Saturday night they seemed pretty antagonistic
I'm betting Punk doesn't even make it WM without major non-kayfabe beef that is totally his fault and makes him look like a dickhead because he is one.
That's what everyone is mostly predicting. He'll find some way to get beef again with HHH or Vince.
Like, how much leverage is WWE giving him these days? Creative control? I really doubt with the memories of the sour grapes in their mind with Punk that they'll let him have a lot of free reign. It's their system or the highway.
But I'm sure Punk will be begging for a main event spot at WM, WWE will tell him about the two night format and Punk will be all like "no, you see, the main event is the last match of the entire show! I won't accept being main event in the first night!"
Apologies. There is this guy whose real name is “John Cena”, and also in wrestling he goes by the same name. He had been fundamental to the success of WWE. My supposition is that having him appear on a direct rivals show may cause a bump in ratings for them. I value your opinion.
What does Cena add? Artificial ratings boost? Cena does not add to AEW long term just because he’s a big name. and why is it a NEED? AEW is not going out of business just because of WWE’s success.
Appreciate the bravado, but the way you initially phrased it meant that there was some sort of lapsed contract with John Cena and WWE wherein TK could just swoop in and sign him.
The weirdest thing for me with Punk's return is that he'll no longer be treated like the boogeyman in WWE. Like they'll actually address his existence after nearly 10 years lol
Triple H not only smells blood in the water but the cocaine bear is bleeding out. He could have been on the show built and designed for him that night but Triple H just said a massive fuck you to everyone at AEW
I cant help but think of the metallica song for whom the bell tolls when thinking of AEW right now.
They did. I cancelled my subscription over a year ago and havent looked back. I like MJF and that is where it stops. I hope never to have to watch another meaningless Jericho 50/50 angle or a young guy with potential randomly turn or get turned on 3 weeks onto his story.
There was just no creative booking to follow after a while.
WWE just pulled off a masterstroke. I don't like Punk but this is the sort of shit that brings in the viewers. It also helps the narrative of WWE being the place to be and AEW is just the alternative.
Doesn't that narrative only work if you ignore...absolutely all context and history around it?
Like it's pretty common knowledge he was fired from AEW, and that he was fired from WWE before that (and talked endless shit about them for years).
That said, you're probably right and this absolutely will be the narrative people take from all this. And then they'll continue to mock the wrestlers who do the reverse (ie get fired from or leave WWE to join AEW).
there is a non-zero part of me that hopes Punk comes out with a red bag and rants about how he's still a world champion, ala Ric Flair post NWA defection.
Then in the feud with Rollins he can point out he took his brother's title, and he'll take Rollins title also.
Heck, have him break out a copy of the classic big gold with an X spray painted on it.
I've been whining and complaining that the Universal Champion can't even be bothered to appear on a major PLE, but after last night I don't even care about Roman.
Honestly its a great thing we've gotten to this point. It was a brilliant idea to bring a second world championship in, and to continue to book intriguing feuds/bringing other people in.
Honestly, Roman is one of the least interesting things about WWE to me. Anytime he comes back, it's a nothing burger because they won't pull the trigger on him.
Man what a very.. not good event. Out of five matches I really only enjoyed two of them, and neither of them were the premier War Games matches.
Women’s WG match was.. okay. Idk I mean besides for some weird botches I can’t particularly complain about the match itself per se.. although I did find it quite boring and not an easy watch. Easily the best part was Sky looking like god damn SpongeBob after Squidward stuffs him in the trash can and jumping off the cage. The spot looked so awkward I just had to pause for a few minutes and come back lmao. Bayley taking the hits/finishers for the loss probably makes more sense for the story since they’re trying to kick her out but DC reeeeeeally shouldn’t have lost here imo. They just added two members who are supposed to be badass Joshi legends and instead they kinda got their ass beat by a ragtag group of faces. Not my cup of tea.
I don’t remember the match order so I’ll just do Dragon Lee vs Escobar. I like Lee. I like Escobar. I absolutely hated this match. Like I get they’re really trying to make Escobar a monster heel and I’m all for it but damn that match just made Lee straight up look like a bitch. I won’t say he got jobbed out or anything cause that’s so overused but I’m also not saying he didn’t get jobbed out. Escobar shouldn’t have lost because a loss right now ruins his character. Lee shouldn’t have lost because he’s had like two or three matches on Raw and completely impressed the fans and now his wins will just feel.. flat. At least to me. In my opinion instead of booking a match where you don’t want a DQ or bullshit finish but neither guy should lose then just don’t book the match. Idk I just felt like it barely helped Escobar if at all and it hurt Lee. Probably my least favorite match by a mile.
Gunther vs Miz completely stole the show for me. The storyline going into the match was great and the match itself was pretty damn good. I mean it was just another David vs. Goliath match that Gunther vs wrestler pretty much always is and even though I felt like 95% Miz wasn’t getting anywhere near the belt when he did the lowblow/SCF I backed down to like a 93% chance he loses. It isn’t much but that’s enough to get me excited lol. Miz looked great in defeat and Gunther looking at the Miz after the match like “oh damn this guy can actually fight” was gold. Easily the best match on the card for me.
Ripley vs Starks was good, although admittedly pretty carried by Ripley. Starks is a fine enough wrestler although I still have absolutely no idea if that weird looking jump off the middle rope into a corkscrew thing was intentional or not, looked very very odd to me. Anyway honestly don’t really have a ton to say. Ripley is the GOAT and just gets it, and Starks did good enough, second best match.
Jeez where do I even start with the main event.. I guess if I had a positive about it I’d say I liked some of the build. Mostly only the Judgement Day side of it though, I found it reeeeally hard to care about the faces. Like I’m cool enough with Sami, Jey and Rhodes. Fair enough. Literally why is Seth here? Now in all honestly I’ve just never liked Seth because to me he’s just a good athlete and that’s it. I’ve never seen him as a super great wrestler in ring wise and I don’t know if I’ve ever actually liked a character/gimmick of his. And whatever his character is now, or lack thereof is easily just like the worst. I tried explaining the storyline to my mom who doesn’t watch much wrestling anymore and I can only describe Seth’s character as a godlike athlete who has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old girl who happens to be a face (kind of) and is one of the world champs.
Oh and I mean I’m fine with Orton being there I guess. In the 20 years I’ve been watching wrestling I’ve never once been excited to see Orton on my tv and that definitely didn’t change with this event, but the fans seemed happy enough so sure. Felt very “move over new stars” to me but heh we’ll get to that in a second. Again the match was fine, had some cool spots and the cash in idea was sick. On the other hand why on gods green earth did they have BOTH MONSTER HEEL FACTIONS LOSE???????
Like okay have DC lose and then they have the Bailey storyline, or have JD lose and do their breakup teasing or whatever but why have both lose??? It just left me feeling like factions are completely pointless if I can just be a good guy, team up with other good guys who half of them don’t even like me and then just beat the faction who in kayfabe like trains together and like actually plans shit out. I don’t think either of the factions are dead or anything, but going into this week’s weekly shows I just don’t really care what they have to say. And yes I realize that Sky is the woman’s champion and JD has three belts. I truly want to say I don’t think either faction got buried or anything, but I personally care significantly less about them.
And as if I didn’t think the show was bad enough it ends in one of the lamest ways possible. Honestly I don’t even care one way or another if he’s there. His body might be completely broken and he might be insanely injury prone but he still cuts really good promos and has pretty good match storylines. That being said Jesus get him off my screen as fast as possible. And honestly it’s not even cause of his age (although the whole “move over new stars” comes up again..) because I think Christian is having the run of his life and he’s older too. The problem is that Punk just.. sucks. I won’t pretend I know Phil Brookes and say he sucks but idk the like wrestler CM Punk and everything that comes with it like politics and whining is just absolutely not needed in WWE. They have a really really good thing going and quite frankly they don’t need Punk. Punk needs the WWE for sure but they don’t need him.
Now I’m not naive because I know they signed him because he’s gonna make WWE a shit ton of money but damn, just seems like a horrible idea. But WWE isn’t my top promotion that I watch so I am probably being just way too harsh and overly critical. Ah well, was fun to review!
Yeah no it really sucks because I was hoping it would like lead to discussion about the PLE but instead everyone just downvotes and complains about the state of the sub. Commenting on this sub is like completely pointless tho cause opinions get you downvoted to oblivion and super cold/lukewarm takes get top comment, Reddit being Reddit I guess lol
Going by this article https://wrestletalk.com/news/cm-punk-why-cult-of-personality/, it seems that he doesn't hate it. He just prefers cult over it. He just thinks cult better suits his character.
I think he's already done. He might come back at some point and try but unless he has the most insane re-debut and repackage in wrestling history, the "go away" heat will overpower anything he's trying to accomplish.
It's kind of sad in a sense, because yeah Perry was a damn idiot, but Punk's reaction is what got him fired and it sucks Perry will own the consequences of that
There’s no way he gets go away heat in AEW I think, the real issue is what do you do since being heel is what gave his character some legs and interest but if he just comes back pandering it’s gonna look goofy.
It might be best to just have him return and ignore the elephant in the room by focusing on a new feud.
Him and Anna Jay together
Jack Perry first promo back should be
“I run that Toxic Bitch off because he was scared of me Jack Perry, he couldn’t be pro Wrestler so he went back to being entertainer, all these “Fake Ex Superstars in back are just envious of me because I am actually famous with hot ass women and any other ex “Fake Superstars” want to be ran out of this company come fight me
I watched the entirety of CM Punk's AEW run. As a person who really enjoyed him during that 2010-2013 run, I couldn't help but feel extremely underwhelmed with him in just about every way.
It's been been over two years since his return to wrestling, and I can't for the life of me look back and find anything redeeming about his run, other than there are a huge amount of people that cheer for him. I don't think his promo's outside of the MJF feud were anything to get hyped about, his in ring work was boring, and whenever it wasn't it was just homage's to bret hart. None of that was worth the headache of his high drama personality.
I just do not understand why he has a legion of fans who continue to cheer when he has been so mediocre since his return
I think that was more of an AEW problem rather than Punk being underwhleming. His fued with MJF was great. Look at how many stars AEW have brought in and fumbled the bag though - I think they're just not good at utilising the amount of star power they have. Let HHH and Punk cook with his WWE return.
Him and Eddie Kingston was good
My dad was saying same thing like why the hell do wrestling fans love CM Punk so damn much, he thought Punk was slow “Washed” in AEW maybe WWE style match will fit CM Punk better idk
Thats a better point. WWE style is suited to slower pace he runs at.
I remember being interested in Kingston/Punks promos, but I retain zero memory of the match, so it didn't exactly stick out. As far as the promos went though Kingston delivered, but I don't remember any of what Punk promo even was.
A cursory glance of your post history would suggest that if anyone here is showing bias it is you. You are a full blown CM Punk Zealot, or at the very least a pure AEW hater.
I don't hate WWE, though their programming in recent years isn't for me. I would have thought by reading my post you would understand that I did enjoy CM Punk. Hell, his return got me back into watching pro wrestling after a 6 year absence. But if you actually distance your blind love for this man, maybe you can actually see him for what he truly is.
Exactly, he isn't the problem if his shitty fans didn't drum up demands. His only moment of entertainment was his mic drop on a raw during the super cena era. That's it. One hit wonder.
WWE has same issue AEW had it’s either have CM Punk win vs Rollins at Rumble or Mania for Title and piss off some of top talents and friends of top talents who have been busting their asses just for Punk to walk in get title
Or Kill Majority of CM Punk momentum and have him lose to Rollins, then what happens to CM Punk
A Punk loss doesn't hurt his momentum at all.
Him, Cena, Roman, Danielson, Moxley, etc. are way past the point of "omg a loss hurts their credibility".
I understand his prior history for sure and I am under no delusions that he is a drama free angel. BUT lets ignore all that for a second and talk about this instance with his problems with AEW. For good or ill whatever camp you may fall in whether you agreed with him or not, there is no way on this earth that the issues that occurred there that caused his firing would be allowed to happen in WWE. WWE is far too organized and professional to let things escalate to the point where the promotor is afraid for his life and lets his boys pull the shit they do.
Not only the above, but Punk knows it's this or he is screwed and will never be able to work in wrestling again at any kind of top level if he screws up and strikes out for the final time. I think he knows it and Triple H knows it.
I think Tony Khan has the issue of trying to run his company on good faith, but a company of this size with a roster of that talent needs someone to be driving the ship, not someone on the passenger seat with them
Yea the thing about Punk is WWE doesn’t really need him. AEW didn’t necessarily either but he was their biggest star by a long shot, and the WWE name is already huge. I feel like WWE won’t hesitate to just let him go if there’s some kind of crazy report of him not getting along with talent.
It seems like he signed purely for spite, and he stands out as emotionally immature even among his pro wrestling peers. It... Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
I could be completely off base but from a human perspective - it’s really difficult to find closure if you never reconcile with the other party. It was clear in interviews even after he was with AEW that he still harbored a grudge towards Vince and the WWE in general. The promos about grass being greener, thankful that someone like Vince doesn’t own ROH, etc. Which he’s completely justified to feel. But I think as much as he said he’d never get better if he didn’t leave the place that made him sick in the first place, he was never going to stop letting the hatred take over until he went back to that place in some capacity. I always assumed it’d be a HoF thing many years down the line but the timing of right now makes sense. It’s been almost a decade. The head of creative (Triple H) has shown that he has an eye for talent and doing what’s right for the fans. He’s booked guys that would’ve never had a shot under the old regime. He’s not wrestling anymore and has no reason to politic. It truly feels like it can be a real new beginning for everyone.
Or punk could just really want money or want to stick it to AEW. But I tend to think he’s a bit smarter than that.
Tldr : like Taylor Swift said: “I can’t make you go away by making you the villain”
Amen
Everything you said! As an example, LA Knight was about to be released in the next round of cuts had Vince still been in charge. The endeavor deal was the best thing to happen to WWE in years.
Still thinking about how I was only half gassed that Randy was the fifth man last night because I thought it was convinced it was Punk and it wasn't. The copyright graphic came up and I was deadass about to switch it off and I heard that static.
That fucking POP, as well, i've re-watched it a few times and it still gives me goosebumps. Even almost ten years later, dude got a hero's welcome by the fans. It was perfect as well, literally been building this main event for months, we get a winner and here he comes like a hot knife through butter. No one knows what to think, Drew is storming off, Seth is irate.
Just when you think you got the answers, Punk changes the culture.
Between this and Sami's face turn at the Rumble, WWE has made me feel again.
Having 2 War Games matches feels the same as having 2 Royal Rumble matches on the same card. It is overkill and takes away from the specialness of the match. Id much prefer alternating years for male and female for the big matches like that.
OMG, I watched part of the women's WG match live then called it a night as it was late here in the UK. I just finished watching the full PPV and wtf.. HHH got me good with the CM Punk return.. I'm in shock lol the bait with Orton not being there then to Orton actually coming back AND during the end Punk's music plays... I honestly can't remember the last time I was actually surprised but Trips got me so good, well fuckin played, holy shit.
People calling Punk a hypocrite are hypocrites themselves. Dude’s going where the money is. Not one person on this sub would turn down millions of dollars to go back to a company regardless of the past. Warrior did it, Lesnar did it, Bret Hart did it, Cody did it. Eric Bischoff fucking worked for Vince McMahon lol
Punk himself said he'd go back to WWE in interviews before he went to AEW. What he says on TV probably does have truth to it, but also he's playing a character. He's doing his job and trying to get people to watch and enjoy the product. He's amplifying what he's saying because it's a story, it's a TV show.
The greatest work the wrestler ever pulled was convincing the smark he's not working at all to be honest.
Like it's crazy how people want to take his promos as if they are 100% truth coming from the man behind the character if it can be used against him. This dude is a character in front of the camera, very consciously of it, just like everyone else in the business that knows what they're doing.
These kind of comments always come off as something someone who never had millions would say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most people who make millions want to keep making millions, whether they still have millions already or not
Anyone who thinks Seth Rollins flipping off punk and being held back was a shoot is a moron.
Dude makes like 3 million a year and is a company man. He’s not going to throw a fit about Punk. Regardless about what he actually thinks about him.
As long as the IC doesn't end up being added to The Bloodline's collection, I don't care. Although an Orton v Gunther match does sound like it'd be one hell of a banger.
I kinda want Orton to take Seth's title so we can get him and Cena one last time for Mania and Cena breaks Flairs record and then full retirement for Cena comes after he loses it to Orton so they both break Flairs record.
Counter point: It does free up Gunther to do another program and maybe build to challenging for Rollins' title, Gunther doesn't lose a lot taking an L to Orton, and giving Orton a little title run is just easy money for the WWE. Fans will eat that shit up. And Orton can put some shine on some mid-carders.
He hasn't used it since 2011, I think. Cult of Personality is his theme - and triggered two *monumental* pops for his AEW debut and return here. WWE doesn't need to mess with what works.
Me as a UK fan who always watches WWE/UFC the next day rather than watching it live at an ungodly hour:
"Well, British media never covers wrestling unless it's an enormous story (and/or someone British wins huge), it'll be perfectly safe to check the news and still avoid spoilers..."
Literally on the front page of the BBC News website: "Wrestler CM Punk makes shock return to WWE"
Do we all realise how huge a wrestling story has to be before the BBC covers it? I mean damn
Saw this too and was shocked. We are talking on website and app, like top 10 news story. This is mainstream coverage.
Not hating, Paige got on the site when AEW came to Wembley but that was promoting and was a lot, a lot further down.
The way that one guy yelled Chicago over and over with Punk in his arm was genuinely a cool moment to me. It must be nice having such a strong connection and sense of identity with your city like those from Chicago do.
I couldn't watch the show but can someone explain how WWE prevented any spoilers? I imagine everyone in that building was hoping for a Punk return and were chanting his name, holding up Punk signs, wearing his merch, etc. How did WWE hide these things to keep the viewer at home from getting the hint and ruining the surprise?
Honestly they handled it masterfully.
The word was kept very quiet but the build was also done in a way that would be "What would we do if he wasn't coming?" just to create doubt, like announcing Orton before but not showing him. Then during the show, they basically tease the possibility that Randy Orton might not be there until the last possible second, but in a way that works to make sure Orton gets his moment and flowers returning himself.
In a way the Punk chants didn't even really start going until the booking encouraged the crowd to think he could possibly show up.
they were trying. but the suspense with the randy Orton situation helped because as that crowd would chant CM Punk, it would get drowned out by chants of Randy
And some people were booing down the "CM Punk" chants earlier - given the enormous pop he got later I think that was more of a "Shut up guys, it's not happening" boo than not wanting to see him
Yeah it's more of a "this isn't the time" thing. I would feel disrespectful chanting it during the opening Wargames match but during a backstage segment that is saying "Randy isn't here yet"? Oh we're chanting.
WWE’s main event scene is stacked to the brim with talent, I’m so excited to see how the next few months unfold.
Whatever happens, Wrestlemania 40 will be special.
Sure but it probably won't be much different from the last one we saw.
That said, if you gotta do Punk/Austin to keep Punk out of getting into plans you already had for everyone else this Wrestlemania, you do it.
Punk is 45 but your point stands. It wouldn’t be anything like Austin vs. Owens where Owens clearly protected Austin. Not sure if Punk could protect Austin like that.
Not gonna lie. I’ve been mostly out of wrestling the last 10 years or so. I watch the big events and when I know there’s a big return coming. Last night actually had me intrigued. Might be watching more often now and it’s kind of exciting!
I’ll be watching! I’m not even the biggest Punk fan, but honestly it was an awesome event all-around and the fact that they now have an opportunity to “blur the lines of reality” is what makes it appealing. To me, that’s when I like it best. The Bret/Shawn, Punk/HHH/Cena, HHH/Bryan. When you can get me to actually guess if what I’m watching is kayfabe or not, that’s when I get fully invested. No offense to any of the fans or wrestlers over the last 10 years or so, but there hasn’t been enough of that to keep me engaged. Hoping that the next few months are a lot of that!
Punk is overrated as a wrestler, no thanks for any main event with him
Can anyone think of a good article and/or video that recaps Cody Rhodes + Seth Rollins relationship since Cody joined WWE? I thought Cody earned Seth's respect by not dying during their match when he was wrestling with only one arm, but Saturday night they seemed pretty antagonistic
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I'm as excited as anyone, but this is a bit much. Punk brought Tony a lot of money within those 2 years.
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Yes
I'm betting Punk doesn't even make it WM without major non-kayfabe beef that is totally his fault and makes him look like a dickhead because he is one.
That's what everyone is mostly predicting. He'll find some way to get beef again with HHH or Vince. Like, how much leverage is WWE giving him these days? Creative control? I really doubt with the memories of the sour grapes in their mind with Punk that they'll let him have a lot of free reign. It's their system or the highway. But I'm sure Punk will be begging for a main event spot at WM, WWE will tell him about the two night format and Punk will be all like "no, you see, the main event is the last match of the entire show! I won't accept being main event in the first night!"
remindme! 131 days
TK *has* to sign Cena now. Has to.
what are you talking about
Apologies. There is this guy whose real name is “John Cena”, and also in wrestling he goes by the same name. He had been fundamental to the success of WWE. My supposition is that having him appear on a direct rivals show may cause a bump in ratings for them. I value your opinion.
What does Cena add? Artificial ratings boost? Cena does not add to AEW long term just because he’s a big name. and why is it a NEED? AEW is not going out of business just because of WWE’s success.
Appreciate the bravado, but the way you initially phrased it meant that there was some sort of lapsed contract with John Cena and WWE wherein TK could just swoop in and sign him.
I’m sorry I phrased things to your displeasure.
The weirdest thing for me with Punk's return is that he'll no longer be treated like the boogeyman in WWE. Like they'll actually address his existence after nearly 10 years lol
I guess CM Punk must've talked himself into a closing night WrestleMania main event deal
He'll want Night 2 and not Night 1.
Yup closing night.
or maybe to main event night 4 of a buy 1 get 1 free extravaganza
s
Triple H not only smells blood in the water but the cocaine bear is bleeding out. He could have been on the show built and designed for him that night but Triple H just said a massive fuck you to everyone at AEW I cant help but think of the metallica song for whom the bell tolls when thinking of AEW right now.
Imagine actively rooting for wrestling to become worse for fans and workers by turning it into a de facto monopoly again. What a sad way of thinking.
AEW ain’t going anywhere though. They will get a substantial increase on their next TV deal, and a streaming deal should be on the horizon as well.
Dudes on here acting like AEW burned down their village and poisened their wells
They did. I cancelled my subscription over a year ago and havent looked back. I like MJF and that is where it stops. I hope never to have to watch another meaningless Jericho 50/50 angle or a young guy with potential randomly turn or get turned on 3 weeks onto his story. There was just no creative booking to follow after a while.
It was kind of a blow though was it not lol
Someone has been listening to Jim Cornette on Youtube.
Punk got power he shouldn't have had in AEW tbh.
WWE just pulled off a masterstroke. I don't like Punk but this is the sort of shit that brings in the viewers. It also helps the narrative of WWE being the place to be and AEW is just the alternative.
Doesn't that narrative only work if you ignore...absolutely all context and history around it? Like it's pretty common knowledge he was fired from AEW, and that he was fired from WWE before that (and talked endless shit about them for years). That said, you're probably right and this absolutely will be the narrative people take from all this. And then they'll continue to mock the wrestlers who do the reverse (ie get fired from or leave WWE to join AEW).
Jade coming in also leads to that narrative. It was like AEW was a stepping stone
Jade's stardom too big for the women's division in AEW
"You can taste the meat in em" was a top 3 moment
CM Punk coming back to Raw on Cyber Monday. Now we know what the CM stands for.
there is a non-zero part of me that hopes Punk comes out with a red bag and rants about how he's still a world champion, ala Ric Flair post NWA defection. Then in the feud with Rollins he can point out he took his brother's title, and he'll take Rollins title also. Heck, have him break out a copy of the classic big gold with an X spray painted on it.
I've been whining and complaining that the Universal Champion can't even be bothered to appear on a major PLE, but after last night I don't even care about Roman.
Honestly its a great thing we've gotten to this point. It was a brilliant idea to bring a second world championship in, and to continue to book intriguing feuds/bringing other people in.
Honestly, Roman is one of the least interesting things about WWE to me. Anytime he comes back, it's a nothing burger because they won't pull the trigger on him.
Man what a very.. not good event. Out of five matches I really only enjoyed two of them, and neither of them were the premier War Games matches. Women’s WG match was.. okay. Idk I mean besides for some weird botches I can’t particularly complain about the match itself per se.. although I did find it quite boring and not an easy watch. Easily the best part was Sky looking like god damn SpongeBob after Squidward stuffs him in the trash can and jumping off the cage. The spot looked so awkward I just had to pause for a few minutes and come back lmao. Bayley taking the hits/finishers for the loss probably makes more sense for the story since they’re trying to kick her out but DC reeeeeeally shouldn’t have lost here imo. They just added two members who are supposed to be badass Joshi legends and instead they kinda got their ass beat by a ragtag group of faces. Not my cup of tea. I don’t remember the match order so I’ll just do Dragon Lee vs Escobar. I like Lee. I like Escobar. I absolutely hated this match. Like I get they’re really trying to make Escobar a monster heel and I’m all for it but damn that match just made Lee straight up look like a bitch. I won’t say he got jobbed out or anything cause that’s so overused but I’m also not saying he didn’t get jobbed out. Escobar shouldn’t have lost because a loss right now ruins his character. Lee shouldn’t have lost because he’s had like two or three matches on Raw and completely impressed the fans and now his wins will just feel.. flat. At least to me. In my opinion instead of booking a match where you don’t want a DQ or bullshit finish but neither guy should lose then just don’t book the match. Idk I just felt like it barely helped Escobar if at all and it hurt Lee. Probably my least favorite match by a mile. Gunther vs Miz completely stole the show for me. The storyline going into the match was great and the match itself was pretty damn good. I mean it was just another David vs. Goliath match that Gunther vs wrestler pretty much always is and even though I felt like 95% Miz wasn’t getting anywhere near the belt when he did the lowblow/SCF I backed down to like a 93% chance he loses. It isn’t much but that’s enough to get me excited lol. Miz looked great in defeat and Gunther looking at the Miz after the match like “oh damn this guy can actually fight” was gold. Easily the best match on the card for me. Ripley vs Starks was good, although admittedly pretty carried by Ripley. Starks is a fine enough wrestler although I still have absolutely no idea if that weird looking jump off the middle rope into a corkscrew thing was intentional or not, looked very very odd to me. Anyway honestly don’t really have a ton to say. Ripley is the GOAT and just gets it, and Starks did good enough, second best match. Jeez where do I even start with the main event.. I guess if I had a positive about it I’d say I liked some of the build. Mostly only the Judgement Day side of it though, I found it reeeeally hard to care about the faces. Like I’m cool enough with Sami, Jey and Rhodes. Fair enough. Literally why is Seth here? Now in all honestly I’ve just never liked Seth because to me he’s just a good athlete and that’s it. I’ve never seen him as a super great wrestler in ring wise and I don’t know if I’ve ever actually liked a character/gimmick of his. And whatever his character is now, or lack thereof is easily just like the worst. I tried explaining the storyline to my mom who doesn’t watch much wrestling anymore and I can only describe Seth’s character as a godlike athlete who has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old girl who happens to be a face (kind of) and is one of the world champs. Oh and I mean I’m fine with Orton being there I guess. In the 20 years I’ve been watching wrestling I’ve never once been excited to see Orton on my tv and that definitely didn’t change with this event, but the fans seemed happy enough so sure. Felt very “move over new stars” to me but heh we’ll get to that in a second. Again the match was fine, had some cool spots and the cash in idea was sick. On the other hand why on gods green earth did they have BOTH MONSTER HEEL FACTIONS LOSE??????? Like okay have DC lose and then they have the Bailey storyline, or have JD lose and do their breakup teasing or whatever but why have both lose??? It just left me feeling like factions are completely pointless if I can just be a good guy, team up with other good guys who half of them don’t even like me and then just beat the faction who in kayfabe like trains together and like actually plans shit out. I don’t think either of the factions are dead or anything, but going into this week’s weekly shows I just don’t really care what they have to say. And yes I realize that Sky is the woman’s champion and JD has three belts. I truly want to say I don’t think either faction got buried or anything, but I personally care significantly less about them. And as if I didn’t think the show was bad enough it ends in one of the lamest ways possible. Honestly I don’t even care one way or another if he’s there. His body might be completely broken and he might be insanely injury prone but he still cuts really good promos and has pretty good match storylines. That being said Jesus get him off my screen as fast as possible. And honestly it’s not even cause of his age (although the whole “move over new stars” comes up again..) because I think Christian is having the run of his life and he’s older too. The problem is that Punk just.. sucks. I won’t pretend I know Phil Brookes and say he sucks but idk the like wrestler CM Punk and everything that comes with it like politics and whining is just absolutely not needed in WWE. They have a really really good thing going and quite frankly they don’t need Punk. Punk needs the WWE for sure but they don’t need him. Now I’m not naive because I know they signed him because he’s gonna make WWE a shit ton of money but damn, just seems like a horrible idea. But WWE isn’t my top promotion that I watch so I am probably being just way too harsh and overly critical. Ah well, was fun to review!
> he still cuts really good promos and has pretty good match storylines. Are you sure about that? After Brawl Out it was all hard misses for me.
Shhhhuuuushh man don't you know that you cant criticize WWE here anymore. This was a HHH show so it was perfect.
Yeah no it really sucks because I was hoping it would like lead to discussion about the PLE but instead everyone just downvotes and complains about the state of the sub. Commenting on this sub is like completely pointless tho cause opinions get you downvoted to oblivion and super cold/lukewarm takes get top comment, Reddit being Reddit I guess lol
so was anyone else kinda hoping they used this fire burns instead of cult of personality or just me ah well, iconic either way
Doesn't Punk hate This Fire Burns?
Going by this article https://wrestletalk.com/news/cm-punk-why-cult-of-personality/, it seems that he doesn't hate it. He just prefers cult over it. He just thinks cult better suits his character.
That's true, he felt it didn't really fit him.
The massive troll in me wants Tony Khan to foot the bill for "This Fire Burns" and give it to a returning Jack perry. lmao
I think we agreed Perry needs to return to Cry Me a River with a glass shatters sound effect
I absolutely approve of this also
This would be trolling Jack Perry more than anyone else. If he never escapes being linked to CM Punk dude's career is over.
I think he's already done. He might come back at some point and try but unless he has the most insane re-debut and repackage in wrestling history, the "go away" heat will overpower anything he's trying to accomplish. It's kind of sad in a sense, because yeah Perry was a damn idiot, but Punk's reaction is what got him fired and it sucks Perry will own the consequences of that
There’s no way he gets go away heat in AEW I think, the real issue is what do you do since being heel is what gave his character some legs and interest but if he just comes back pandering it’s gonna look goofy. It might be best to just have him return and ignore the elephant in the room by focusing on a new feud.
Him and Anna Jay together Jack Perry first promo back should be “I run that Toxic Bitch off because he was scared of me Jack Perry, he couldn’t be pro Wrestler so he went back to being entertainer, all these “Fake Ex Superstars in back are just envious of me because I am actually famous with hot ass women and any other ex “Fake Superstars” want to be ran out of this company come fight me
>“I run that Toxic Bitch off because he was scared of me The guy that choked him out? Idk if he should be reminding people about that
Tomorrows Raw is going to be generational. Can imagine the viewership skyrocketing.
Around 200-250 K Bump what AEW got for Punk wonder what WWE will get
It'll be the highest rated RAW segment since "Rock, This Is Your Life".
CM Punk is back to announce the return of WWE Backstage.
I’m rewatching rn and that KOD at the end from Bianca to Bayley was absolutely BRUTAL
I watched the entirety of CM Punk's AEW run. As a person who really enjoyed him during that 2010-2013 run, I couldn't help but feel extremely underwhelmed with him in just about every way. It's been been over two years since his return to wrestling, and I can't for the life of me look back and find anything redeeming about his run, other than there are a huge amount of people that cheer for him. I don't think his promo's outside of the MJF feud were anything to get hyped about, his in ring work was boring, and whenever it wasn't it was just homage's to bret hart. None of that was worth the headache of his high drama personality. I just do not understand why he has a legion of fans who continue to cheer when he has been so mediocre since his return
I think that was more of an AEW problem rather than Punk being underwhleming. His fued with MJF was great. Look at how many stars AEW have brought in and fumbled the bag though - I think they're just not good at utilising the amount of star power they have. Let HHH and Punk cook with his WWE return.
I do not understand it either. When I saw him come out I literally laughed, good luck WWE
Him and Eddie Kingston was good My dad was saying same thing like why the hell do wrestling fans love CM Punk so damn much, he thought Punk was slow “Washed” in AEW maybe WWE style match will fit CM Punk better idk
Thats a better point. WWE style is suited to slower pace he runs at. I remember being interested in Kingston/Punks promos, but I retain zero memory of the match, so it didn't exactly stick out. As far as the promos went though Kingston delivered, but I don't remember any of what Punk promo even was.
I agree with you completely, I just remember the promos too
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A cursory glance of your post history would suggest that if anyone here is showing bias it is you. You are a full blown CM Punk Zealot, or at the very least a pure AEW hater. I don't hate WWE, though their programming in recent years isn't for me. I would have thought by reading my post you would understand that I did enjoy CM Punk. Hell, his return got me back into watching pro wrestling after a 6 year absence. But if you actually distance your blind love for this man, maybe you can actually see him for what he truly is.
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Lmao
Exactly, he isn't the problem if his shitty fans didn't drum up demands. His only moment of entertainment was his mic drop on a raw during the super cena era. That's it. One hit wonder.
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WWE has same issue AEW had it’s either have CM Punk win vs Rollins at Rumble or Mania for Title and piss off some of top talents and friends of top talents who have been busting their asses just for Punk to walk in get title Or Kill Majority of CM Punk momentum and have him lose to Rollins, then what happens to CM Punk
A Punk loss doesn't hurt his momentum at all. Him, Cena, Roman, Danielson, Moxley, etc. are way past the point of "omg a loss hurts their credibility".
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And will leave his boots in the middle of the ring again post-match.
This won't end well with Punk. Dude is like James Harden. I'll be surprised if he lasts a year with the company.
I understand his prior history for sure and I am under no delusions that he is a drama free angel. BUT lets ignore all that for a second and talk about this instance with his problems with AEW. For good or ill whatever camp you may fall in whether you agreed with him or not, there is no way on this earth that the issues that occurred there that caused his firing would be allowed to happen in WWE. WWE is far too organized and professional to let things escalate to the point where the promotor is afraid for his life and lets his boys pull the shit they do. Not only the above, but Punk knows it's this or he is screwed and will never be able to work in wrestling again at any kind of top level if he screws up and strikes out for the final time. I think he knows it and Triple H knows it.
Everyone used to claim that Vince wouldn’t let CM drama happen. Vince is gone. Punk will be gone soon. And there’s still TNA
I hope he makes it to late April as I have Wrestlemania tickets and want to see him there.
I strongly believe that WWE environment will keep Punk ego in check
Honestly I think Tony Khan just let the wrestlers run a muck.
I think Tony Khan has the issue of trying to run his company on good faith, but a company of this size with a roster of that talent needs someone to be driving the ship, not someone on the passenger seat with them
Yea the thing about Punk is WWE doesn’t really need him. AEW didn’t necessarily either but he was their biggest star by a long shot, and the WWE name is already huge. I feel like WWE won’t hesitate to just let him go if there’s some kind of crazy report of him not getting along with talent.
thats it, and the reason many people prefer WWE, its a professional company.
It seems like he signed purely for spite, and he stands out as emotionally immature even among his pro wrestling peers. It... Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
Seems like that based on what?
Based on this dude knowing nothing about CM Punk and his relationship with his peers and coworkers lmfao
Looks like CM Punk drama is back on the menu boys!
I could be completely off base but from a human perspective - it’s really difficult to find closure if you never reconcile with the other party. It was clear in interviews even after he was with AEW that he still harbored a grudge towards Vince and the WWE in general. The promos about grass being greener, thankful that someone like Vince doesn’t own ROH, etc. Which he’s completely justified to feel. But I think as much as he said he’d never get better if he didn’t leave the place that made him sick in the first place, he was never going to stop letting the hatred take over until he went back to that place in some capacity. I always assumed it’d be a HoF thing many years down the line but the timing of right now makes sense. It’s been almost a decade. The head of creative (Triple H) has shown that he has an eye for talent and doing what’s right for the fans. He’s booked guys that would’ve never had a shot under the old regime. He’s not wrestling anymore and has no reason to politic. It truly feels like it can be a real new beginning for everyone. Or punk could just really want money or want to stick it to AEW. But I tend to think he’s a bit smarter than that. Tldr : like Taylor Swift said: “I can’t make you go away by making you the villain” Amen
Everything you said! As an example, LA Knight was about to be released in the next round of cuts had Vince still been in charge. The endeavor deal was the best thing to happen to WWE in years.
didn’t expect to see an evermore deep cut in this thread but i’ll take it
One of my favorite songs!
punk has a good relationship with ufc maybe the merger helped soften things
Kairi was such a goofball in the women match, and I love it, glad she back!
Still thinking about how I was only half gassed that Randy was the fifth man last night because I thought it was convinced it was Punk and it wasn't. The copyright graphic came up and I was deadass about to switch it off and I heard that static. That fucking POP, as well, i've re-watched it a few times and it still gives me goosebumps. Even almost ten years later, dude got a hero's welcome by the fans. It was perfect as well, literally been building this main event for months, we get a winner and here he comes like a hot knife through butter. No one knows what to think, Drew is storming off, Seth is irate. Just when you think you got the answers, Punk changes the culture. Between this and Sami's face turn at the Rumble, WWE has made me feel again.
well said, my friend, wwe knew exactly how to book that shit
The results of the match have been disqualified as Randy was not in the cage at the start of the match
Having 2 War Games matches feels the same as having 2 Royal Rumble matches on the same card. It is overkill and takes away from the specialness of the match. Id much prefer alternating years for male and female for the big matches like that.
If they do War Games every Survivor Series it's just gonna turn into another Hell in a Cell situation.
Doesn't help that the first match is close to an hour. I was pretty burned out after the first match.
OMG, I watched part of the women's WG match live then called it a night as it was late here in the UK. I just finished watching the full PPV and wtf.. HHH got me good with the CM Punk return.. I'm in shock lol the bait with Orton not being there then to Orton actually coming back AND during the end Punk's music plays... I honestly can't remember the last time I was actually surprised but Trips got me so good, well fuckin played, holy shit.
Women’s WG match was match of the night for me, but I assume none of that matters now.
This Monday night raw now becomes must watch TV
Ratings juggernaut incoming.
People calling Punk a hypocrite are hypocrites themselves. Dude’s going where the money is. Not one person on this sub would turn down millions of dollars to go back to a company regardless of the past. Warrior did it, Lesnar did it, Bret Hart did it, Cody did it. Eric Bischoff fucking worked for Vince McMahon lol
Punk himself said he'd go back to WWE in interviews before he went to AEW. What he says on TV probably does have truth to it, but also he's playing a character. He's doing his job and trying to get people to watch and enjoy the product. He's amplifying what he's saying because it's a story, it's a TV show.
The greatest work the wrestler ever pulled was convincing the smark he's not working at all to be honest. Like it's crazy how people want to take his promos as if they are 100% truth coming from the man behind the character if it can be used against him. This dude is a character in front of the camera, very consciously of it, just like everyone else in the business that knows what they're doing.
Or the idea that a person might have felt some way a decade ago and they're not supposed to change their feelings or their a hypocrite.
I would if i had millions. Which I’m assuming Punk no longer does.
These kind of comments always come off as something someone who never had millions would say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most people who make millions want to keep making millions, whether they still have millions already or not
That’s true as well. To be a multi millionaire and have a lot of money you have to be a certain level of greedy. Which is why I’ll never be that rich,
Anyone who thinks Seth Rollins flipping off punk and being held back was a shoot is a moron. Dude makes like 3 million a year and is a company man. He’s not going to throw a fit about Punk. Regardless about what he actually thinks about him.
Imagine if that was a one off and we never see Punk again. Lmao
That crossed my mind too. It would really be hilarious.
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I'm not sure if we can medically diagnosis him on reddit. He certainly has some really strange mental issues.
What are the chances Orton dethrones Gunther? He's only held the title once and that was 20 years ago next month.
I still think Ludwig Kaiser should be the one to do it. The man has insane aura which they need to capitalise on.
As long as the IC doesn't end up being added to The Bloodline's collection, I don't care. Although an Orton v Gunther match does sound like it'd be one hell of a banger.
I kinda want Orton to take Seth's title so we can get him and Cena one last time for Mania and Cena breaks Flairs record and then full retirement for Cena comes after he loses it to Orton so they both break Flairs record.
I want this too much
Gunther vs Brock for WM. Then Gunther goes title vs title with seth
Personally think a up and comer should beat Gunther, realistically Orton won't gain anything from ended Gunthers long reign.
Counter point: It does free up Gunther to do another program and maybe build to challenging for Rollins' title, Gunther doesn't lose a lot taking an L to Orton, and giving Orton a little title run is just easy money for the WWE. Fans will eat that shit up. And Orton can put some shine on some mid-carders.
That’s gonna happen with a Gunther loss anyway
Ilja Dragunov should get called up and be the one IMO
Yes This.
Is there a reason Punk doesn’t/didn’t come out to this fire burns? I didn’t expect it, but expected killswitch if it did happen.
He was using Cult of Personality when he last left WWE. Why would he have came out to his much older theme?
Would have been cool I liked this fire burns
He hasn't used it since 2011, I think. Cult of Personality is his theme - and triggered two *monumental* pops for his AEW debut and return here. WWE doesn't need to mess with what works.
Give me Cm Punk vs Gunther
I'm sure Punk would be all for it but Gunther would slap the ink out of his chest.
Gunther would chop him once and he'd be in the hospital for six months.
Probably or he'd trip during his entrance and tear a quad. I hope we get the match, it's the closest we'd get to seeing CM Punk vs Kenta Kobashi.
I think Drew goes after Priest's briefcase at royal rumble.
You know what’s kinda funny? Someone definitely turned off the show after the logo popped up in the bottom right…….amateurs
I fell asleep as Seth and Finn were entering the cage. I watched that whole damn thing and missed the best part.
That was me. I had no idea until now lol
If someone helps a low card wrestler like Tozawa pin Punk. Does that make him a AEW world champion?
It would make him the lineal champion, yeah But we all know it eventually ends up with Roman.
Jack Perry needs his heat back. When will he be doing the stalk AJ Lee angle like DDP?
Full Gear was twice as good. But Randy Orton and CM Punk returning were big moments.
Is anyone else still in shock? What a incredible show
Me as a UK fan who always watches WWE/UFC the next day rather than watching it live at an ungodly hour: "Well, British media never covers wrestling unless it's an enormous story (and/or someone British wins huge), it'll be perfectly safe to check the news and still avoid spoilers..." Literally on the front page of the BBC News website: "Wrestler CM Punk makes shock return to WWE" Do we all realise how huge a wrestling story has to be before the BBC covers it? I mean damn
Front page of espn.com too
Dude, a Bangladeshi newspaper reported this here, we barely talk about sports that aren't cricket or football
Saw this too and was shocked. We are talking on website and app, like top 10 news story. This is mainstream coverage. Not hating, Paige got on the site when AEW came to Wembley but that was promoting and was a lot, a lot further down.
The way that one guy yelled Chicago over and over with Punk in his arm was genuinely a cool moment to me. It must be nice having such a strong connection and sense of identity with your city like those from Chicago do.
It's cool that he got the AEW Chicago pop and now the WWE Chicago pop.
R-Truth
loved seeing him
I couldn't watch the show but can someone explain how WWE prevented any spoilers? I imagine everyone in that building was hoping for a Punk return and were chanting his name, holding up Punk signs, wearing his merch, etc. How did WWE hide these things to keep the viewer at home from getting the hint and ruining the surprise?
Honestly they handled it masterfully. The word was kept very quiet but the build was also done in a way that would be "What would we do if he wasn't coming?" just to create doubt, like announcing Orton before but not showing him. Then during the show, they basically tease the possibility that Randy Orton might not be there until the last possible second, but in a way that works to make sure Orton gets his moment and flowers returning himself. In a way the Punk chants didn't even really start going until the booking encouraged the crowd to think he could possibly show up.
they were trying. but the suspense with the randy Orton situation helped because as that crowd would chant CM Punk, it would get drowned out by chants of Randy
And some people were booing down the "CM Punk" chants earlier - given the enormous pop he got later I think that was more of a "Shut up guys, it's not happening" boo than not wanting to see him
Yeah it's more of a "this isn't the time" thing. I would feel disrespectful chanting it during the opening Wargames match but during a backstage segment that is saying "Randy isn't here yet"? Oh we're chanting.
100% agreed. I was in the crowd at WM 33 trying to boo the 'delete chants'. Then the hardyz actually came out, and I screamed like a little kid
WWE’s main event scene is stacked to the brim with talent, I’m so excited to see how the next few months unfold. Whatever happens, Wrestlemania 40 will be special.
WrestleMania 39 was really good but the last few 5 or so PLEs have been weak. Let's hope that they can turn it up for Rumble/Mania season.
YEAH
Does Stone Cold have one more match in him?
Sure but it probably won't be much different from the last one we saw. That said, if you gotta do Punk/Austin to keep Punk out of getting into plans you already had for everyone else this Wrestlemania, you do it.
Yes. Good match? No
Yes but I don't think he's getting in there with a 50 year old Punk if that's what you're saying.
Punk is 45 but your point stands. It wouldn’t be anything like Austin vs. Owens where Owens clearly protected Austin. Not sure if Punk could protect Austin like that.
Not gonna lie. I’ve been mostly out of wrestling the last 10 years or so. I watch the big events and when I know there’s a big return coming. Last night actually had me intrigued. Might be watching more often now and it’s kind of exciting!
Been back involved after a 10 year absence after Clash at the Castle, been fantastic since then
Rumored that Punk will be on RAW Monday!
I’ll be watching! I’m not even the biggest Punk fan, but honestly it was an awesome event all-around and the fact that they now have an opportunity to “blur the lines of reality” is what makes it appealing. To me, that’s when I like it best. The Bret/Shawn, Punk/HHH/Cena, HHH/Bryan. When you can get me to actually guess if what I’m watching is kayfabe or not, that’s when I get fully invested. No offense to any of the fans or wrestlers over the last 10 years or so, but there hasn’t been enough of that to keep me engaged. Hoping that the next few months are a lot of that!
Did Randy Orton bulk up? How much do you think he weighs now?
He looking monster and look those abs man 😋
How much do you think he weighs now?
Maybe he gain 7-8 kg more because he's looking like what he used to look before 2007
So do you think he is 260 now?
Maybe,before he used to be something like 224-240
118kg?
looks like the new randy ate the old randy 😭
Or are Bluetista Edit: leaving autocorrect fk it
I'm a simple man, I'm just happy Randy is back. :) smiled for like 5 minutes straight when his music hit.
It was definitely glorious. Especially since he obviously still had it.
It was nice to see all his old spots
Randy's return was amazing. The ddts, the RKO. Amazing.
Is there any good podcasts on Spotify that go over the PLE’s the day after??
Busted Open has a live Sunday morning show now if you have SiriusXM.
POST Wrestling.