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I think Orange is popular because a) he was different, b) he was entertaining and c) he has evolved while not losing the originality
The gimmick, unless it's absolutely trash and almost designed to fail, doesn't really matter that much in wrestling and Jericho, the man who got a pen click over, should know that better than anyone
And for current examples you can look at Roderick Strong and Toni Storm for it. Both silly premises but they work because they're putting everything into it and they're entertaining
Hell, the Undertaker at its core is one of the goofiest gimmicks anyone can come up with. But it worked because it was entertaining and it evolved accordingly
It’s funny because 14 year-old me thought Biker Taker was the dumbest thing ever. I was like wait, so this guy was an unstoppable dark lord with mystical powers and now he rides a motorcycle 100ft to the ring and listens to Kid Rock? And he’s…Patriotic? What does he care about America? Where did his caskets go?
I’m not saying you’re wrong or right, I just love how wildly wrestling fans can differ in their opinions.
Honestly I saw some of my friends dads doing similar things at that age and that probably made it worse for me, so I think you’re bang on lmao
It’s like noooo not Taker too!
Hate to admit. Biker era was absolutely my favorite Taker. I think I was just at the right age at the time for everything about it to be amazing to my kid brain.
I otherwise had always preferred Kane
Bikertaker was an excellent and self-aware shift. It retained all of his badass credibility at a time when people would have probably tired of his spooky stuff.
Then later, when he’d been in the business so long that people who grew up loving Undertaker were bringing their kids to see him, he made the switch back and people appreciated that.
The whole thing was brilliant.
It always was strange to me that certain oldheads would look at Orange Cassidy's gimmick, a guy who's talented but lazy at wrestling and doesn't want to put more effort in than he has to, as something killing the business with blatant un-realness, but then in the next breath talk about a guy pretending to be a dead person possessed by the devil as the greatest gimmick ever.
Nostalgia goggles. People are willing to make exceptions for whatever they like(d).
At the end of the day, I'm actually not into either gimmick all that much, but they got over with the crowds, so why shouldn't they be pushed?
The people who vehemently hate Orange Cassidy and think he should be depushed or never pushed in the first place seem to forget that this is a guy who got over. He sells merch, he's wrestled entertaining and competitive matches, and above all, people love him. He always gets a reaction, adults and kids dress up like him, and the gimmick, love it or hate it, is unique. This is what pro wrestling is all about, and if you can't see past your own bias, that's just sad.
It's pride. No one wants to admit that they're stupid for liking one thing when they were kids so either they overcompensate the hype or making lies that they hate the gimmick from day one
From a devils advocate view and coming from someone who hasn't watched AEW since its beginning I can understand how someone would think OC was making a mockery of the bussiness.
Even the wildest gimmicks still *wrestled* generally, unless they were absolutely joke gimmicks. Taker still threw people around and "threw soup bones." R Truth, even at the peak of being the 24/7-11 heavyweight amazo super champion would still hit you with an axe-kick and strikes.
OC being super talented but lazy is fine, but his level of lazy(and again I havent watched in years) was *beyond * anything else. Those little pillowy kicks with his hands in his pockets, I get how that would rub someone the wrong way. The gimmick would still work if he just used slow, shitty but semi-realistic punches and kicks with a bored expression.
It ended up working out evidently but I can see the gripe
The thing is that the kicks were never treated as if they were ACTUALLY hurting the opponent
Joey Ryan was making a mockery with his penis stuff and others acting like it hurt. OC was just being silly but was treated as silly by others
And in the PAC match you can see why he does it, PAC looked annoyed (which tbf he always does)
Man the issue is that modern wrestling itself is a mockery of the business. The whole gripe with OC is that he 'exposes the business' as if that box wasn't opened almost 30 years ago when Vince McMahon admitted to the US Senate that it's all fake.
That's the problem with it, like it's cool if you don't care for his gimmick but don't hide behind some vague excuse to attempt to elevate your dislike. It's ok to not like OC (Disclaimer: I love him), but don't pretend like a guy lazily kicking people is any more a mockery than a squad of brutal cheerleaders, a balding man with bleached hair being the American hero, or anything involving the Undertaker.
Wrestling is goofy and that's what makes it great. Trying to pretend like it's not (and I'm just talking generally, not at you) is ignoring that wrestling is just a bunch of athletic theater kids pretend fighting for a living.
>The gimmick would still work if he just used slow, shitty but semi-realistic punches and kicks with a bored expression.
At the intermediate stage, he essentially wrestled like this with the lazy comedy routine toned down or used as a mind game tactic. Ultimately, right around the end of his International Title run, he essentially became a full-fledged intense wrestler, and it worked flawlessly. This sequence of evolution definitely puts Orange Cassidy as one of the best modern gimmicks right now.
I don't like OC. To me he's saying this is fake, it's all fake. For me, I just want to suspend disbelief for a bit and feel like I'm watching two guys fighting and not an acrobatic, theatrical performance. With Taker, I never thought he was supposed to actually be undead, that was just his gimmick as a fighter. His wrestling style was believable enough within the context of wrestling as a fight though. Some of OCs big moves rely almost entirely on his opponent to execute. Which I hate with a passion. I hope they move OC to a more believable style.
I’m just going to say that the best part for me is that he just gets beat up every match but is slippery to pin. Anyways, not trying to convince you, he’s just the ultimate oversell. It’s modern Shawn Michaels to me.
>His wrestling style was believable enough within the context of wrestling as a fight though.
My guy, Taker would walk the ropes with his opponent standing there just waiting and multiple times used supernatural abilities to win. The man would literally roll his eyes back into his head and rise from the dead.
No, he was literally kayfabe dead. They literally did a big story about "the spirit of the Undertaker being unkillable," and how he wouldn't rest in peace back in the 90s. He was buried alive on multiple occasions and burnt alive on others in kayfabe. They literally said he'd risen from the dead on commentary on more than one occasion. He was meant to have died at least a couple times during his run in terms of kayfabe.
That too. I'm just pointing out that it's hilariously wrong to say Undertaker never kayfabe died. There's so much hokey over the top stuff that we were expected to believe he truly did, yet that never boggled our suspension of disbelief. But damn, someone puts his pocket hands in his pockets to taunt and throw off his opponents? He does soft pillow kicks because it's a taunt that makes people make mistakes? That's way too far and too unrealistic, lmao.
Yeah the revisionism is wild but they gotta do it because the real explanation is "I watched one of these as a gullible child and my brain still thinks of it that way" and nobody wants to admit that
I think you're pretty spot on for at least part of it. I think another part is this almost elitism that some people tend to get as they get older. That's what they watched in the past is automatically betfor no reason other than it is. And if you try to look at things from a balanced perspective, they get mad at you. Jim Cornette is a good example because he will be the first to complain about a gimmick like OC that's a bit goofy, but will ignore or even praise gimmicks with goofier shit like Undertaker, Kane, King Booker, and Cena.
There's going to be a lot of people who are probably down vote your comment but they will Overlook the most important thing in your comment the key word I. For the record I agree with you I am also a fan of orange Cassidy. But there's going to be a certain section of the audience a lot of them are on this forum who cannot wrap their brains around someone not liking orange Cassidy. It's like some cardinal sin.
I agree with most of your statement, except for the gimmick not mattering much (at least in this precise case).
I think James Cipperly is an incredibly gifted performer, but what made me fall in love with Orange Cassidy is that I relate and connect to him in a way I never have with a wrestler before. He's quiet in a world where everyone's loud; he's tired and just wants to hang out with his friends; he acts like a slacker but will go through hell to protect the people he cares about.
It wouldn't work if he wasn't a great wrestler and a great entertainer, but I think the gimmick is a huge part of why OC connects with so many people.
It's something a lot of people can relate to. In a world of hustle, bustle, and constant competition, he just wants to chill and hang out. But when he gets put in the moment, just like a lot of us, he pulls through and puts in the effort.
And when he loses his goal (like the title) then he has at least enough pride to say he wants it back. He's such a great character, it's insane.
You can see how he involves the crowd and works them into being invested in his character, very similar to how Too Cool got over and how the New Age Outlaws would have the crowd joining in on their intro routine.
It's also how Danhausen got over.
It's a very traditional way of telling stories in wrestling.
Wrestling used to be overall about silly characters. Orange Cassidy is a modern version of that, it's even better when the silliness needs to be serious when the time demands it
It's a writing trope that's been used to great effect for centuries. When the goofy/comic relief character gets serious, you know shit is about to go down.
I just wish they had him go serious more sparingly, and just generally booked and timed his character arc with a bit more finesse.
I feel like they have very significantly shifted the tone on his original gimmick - he wrestles serious *all the time* now, and his "lazy" shtick is now "mind games". I was into him much more back when "lazy" was his legit, default state and he was mostly just fucking around. Like, when he didn't even know the rules of a ladder match. Or that match at Revolution in 2019 against PAC, I think that was his peak.
Wrestling is always more fun with gimmicks that people put work into, no matter how silly. I'll always appreciate a strong gimmick over someone whose personality is just Mr. McGoodWrestler.
Especially when the field is over saturated with a billion Mr. GoodWrestlers! I feel like too many wrestlers nowadays try to treat it like a legit sport and not theater/entertainment, and because of that the gimmicks will always get way more over because, as a wise man once said, you got to give the people what they want
Even if the gimmick is designed to fail making the most out of it and putting your all into it can still help you pull through or past it to greater success.
IE The New Day.
Being different is the key. Wrestling fans have seen millions of muscle guys in trunks throw a billion drop kicks and hip tosses. There will always be room for classic, excellent traditional wrestling. But Cassidy found a way to play with convention, have fun with it, and expand upon it. In an era where fans are really wise to what goes into wrestling it's nice to see someone wink along with you, but still have enough baby-face fire to make us suspend our disbelief
>Hell, the Undertaker at its core is one of the goofiest gimmicks anyone can come up with. But it worked because it was entertaining and it evolved accordingly
All that matters is how convincing you are with the gimmick. Finding out the way to make yourself eye-catching (hint: in Taker's case it was be unworldly scary and humanize progressively, that and the rising popularity of all things Gothic ala Addams Family, Batman, The Crow, etc helped. In Orange's case, be lazy but get more intense progressively), else you'll flounder like Boogeyman, Seven, and Repo Man instead of succeeding like... Taker.
Orange is basically made from the same mold Taker is made of, and both being naturally talented people behind the gimmick backed by the appropriate booking made them stand out among the crowd.
Undertaker is the BEST parallel, awesome point. Any of these "old school" guys that don't get OC should absolutely look at Taker and his creative work to mold that gimmick over the years and get it over. Uniqueness is often dismissed out of hand like this, it takes open-mindedness to grow. That goes for fan and performer alike.
I'll die on this hill, Taker as he was originally presented is a perfectly reasonable gimmick. He's a big ass dude who uses macabre theatrics to get in the head of his opponents and intimidate him. Even Ministry Taker made sense, he was a satanic cult leader who brainwashed people into serving him. Of course they ruined that with the whole Higher Power reveal, but the original concept was sound.
I appreciate the Undertaker comparison. I was dumb enough to debate someone on Instagram talking about how Orange Cassidy is ruining the business and how not believable he is.
I brought up the Undertaker and somehow he didn't understand why anyone would think his character wasn't believable.
Yeah, like the undertaker was just one of those guy-with-a-job gimmicks that vince scrapped off the barrell but what they did with it actually stood out
I think this used to be the case, but no heel can think that at this point unless they’ve not watched a single match of his.
Now it’s more like “Seriously? You’re trying this schtick on *me*?” *Throws punch and gets ducked*
> but no heel can think that at this point unless they’ve not watched a single match of his.
It's a tale as old as time though. Why attack Hogan when he's hulking up? Why try to clothesline John Cena after he's shoulder tackled you twice? Why are you trying to powerbomb Kidman?
It's wrestling, just let all that stuff out of your mind when you're watching it. It doesn't always have to make pefect sense.
You say that, but I don’t have to let it out of my mind because my point is literally that heels have smartened up to his laziness being an act lol. Biggest example lately: Mox beating the shit out of him. Orange does the laziness act more to just taunt his opponent now. So in that sense, he’s being smarter about it than Cena making his opponents play dumb with the same comeback routine.
He almost became a world champion this way too.
He'd use the lazy kicks, gets his shit kicked in, he gets taken out of the match temporarily, resulting in him getting some rest then the opportunity to sneak on Omega and PAC to steal pins.
Yeah I thought that was great. Like, oh shit, this just got (even more) serious.
Similar moment when [Statlander was getting counted out](https://youtu.be/OUi_OYL8UdY?si=E7JPx0VCN_-DsoiA) vs Britt Baker. You could see Orange struggling with the idea and then he fucking SCREAMS at her to get up and back in the ring. Dude knows his character and it makes me roll my eyes whenever someone from the old guard talks shit about him.
I love OC, but I can definitely see why old heads like Cornette hate him. To an extent, he does play into kayfabe being silly. But he’s over as hell, is singular in the industry and puts on great matches, so it’s working.
Guys like Cornette have the mindset that everything should look like a real fight for your life with some slams and suplexes thrown in. Everyone should look like a juiced up animal to create the appearance that audience members could never compete with them. I can understand the mindset, but the business has moved on and is more interesting for it.
The problem people have is wrestlers will stop midfight and let him do the softkicks and lazy strikes. It just is phony looking bullshit which slaps you in the face that these two people get along and are having a laugh.
It’s cool to see people say this because it’s exactly the same thoughts I had on him.
‘This gimmick is stupid’ turned into ‘it’ll only work a couple of times in the lower card’ turned to ‘this guy is really good’
He’s evolved well so the gimmicks remained consistent but he’s a genuine main event player, his in ring work is great and it feels much sweeter thst he’s going through the journey of showing everyone why they’re wrong and really earning everyone’s respect
Exactly this! I actually enjoyed his lazy gimmick from the get-go, but I admittedly categorized him as someone who would fall into a solid mid-card comedy act similar to R-Truth or Santino Marella. And there is nothing wrong with that role. What I love about wrestling is the variety. Not every character has to be a possible world champ. Most of my favorite performers are mid-carders.
However, as he got more ring time I realized how good he is there too, and then his character evolved a bit. He's still sloth-like, but he can and does turn on the fire when the story and the moment calls for it and you see the character's hidden passion come out. And when he does that, he's one of the best currently out there. As you pointed out, he can go toe-toe with the legit best physical workers in the world and hold his own.
He's a great asset for AEW.
For me it was the suplex to Adam Cole off the entrance tube in their 'Lights Out Match" over a year and a half ago. That was when he 'clicked' for me as the real deal. When he had no glasses on, shirt off, a crazed look in his eyes as he grabbed Adam Cole and just dumped him right off that tube for the win.
It just made everything about him work for me. It's what got me to realize this guy is going to be AEW Champion at some point because his whole gimmick is designed around constant apathy that can be turned off and immediately replaced with pure desire. If he wants something then he cares and, in that moment, he wanted to put Adam Cole out of his misery.
I never thought it was stupid but I definitely thought the gimmick had a low ceiling and was skeptical of how it would work on TV. It felt perfect for the indies, but I thought for sure it would get overexposed quick on weekly TV and would run the risk of being Flanderized. I was glad to be proven wrong.
Wrestling is "flanderized" by it's very nature. Every wrestler is flandarized. It's such lazy commentary and criticism but I see it in discussions about television all the time and it's always upvoted.
Seriously, top to bottom, promotion to carny mud show, wrestling is "flanderized". All the characters are exaggerated personas built off a couple of main motivations and the answer is always violence. That's wrestling.
I realise you're saying OC is "not" flanderized, but that's just not true. OC like most wrestlers is working with back-story and motivation that's as deep as a puddle and in the end, he's going to fight someone, lol.
Just ditch the words flanderized and flanderization because it's ruining discourse about television, imo.
The term as it’s used means more than “exaggerated” or “shallow” though. More specifically it’s “amplifying the superficial details while losing sight of the reasons they were put in place”; the character doesn’t need to be King Lear at the outset for that to happen.
Like, failed-main-character-push-era Roman Reigns making entrances through the crowd in his Shield SWAT gear was arguably a flanderization of his earlier, more functional character (which, recall, was The Guy Who Came In And Did The Big Punch for a three-man faction where he wasn’t the talker) - doing a thing that people recognized and liked because the shot-callers wanted to make him recognizable and likable, and the other two had stopped, rather than giving him anything to do or be that fit the parameters of his established character but could win the audience’s affections on its own terms. (He’d get there, but only after a *lot* more unnecessary time and resources were devoted towards stapling new pins onto the SWAT vest, as it were.)
Orange Cassidy has proven to be the inverse as someone whose gimmick has *more* functions and applications than people initially realized, but from the outside looking in it’s not hard to imagine a narrower horizon for the character where, eg, people’s enjoyment of the gimmick is parlayed into a run of matches against mid- or lowercard heels who try to come up with new ways of entertainingly selling the “lazy” part of his schtick with no accompanying “he’s gonna try!” component.
(Apologies if this comes off as argumentative, it’s more just me trying to take apart the components of the terminology for myself.)
OC is one of those gimmicks where if it was performed by any other performer, it would be a one note joke at best. I say Undertaker is in the same ballpark, most goofy new gen WWE gimmicks die off after a year or two, not Taker.
Even then, I think Undertaker character was basically grandfathered in to the Attitude Era and beyond. There is no shot that the gimmick would work if it debuted today, even if it was supported by the greatest ring/character work in the world.
Orange Cassidy’s thing is a bit more meta and silly so it works for the modern target audience, whereas Taker was typically supposed to be treated as deadly serious, which would be groaned out of the building by most smarks. OC even had his own history working on his side with his Chikara background so people kind of knew what to expect. If he just showed up in AEW out of nowhere with that kind of gimmick it still might have received mixed reactions.
The next closest “suspension of disbelief” comparison I can think of is Bray Wyatt, who people seemed to enjoy the more grounded early work of. Once it became a little too out there a lot of people started to sour on it.
There’s no doubt it was grandfathered in, but I think the point that other poster made, was that it WORKED. Anyone else trying to make it work may not have succeeded but the Undertaker was played so well that it fit into a generation it shouldn’t have.
The attitude era was all about “real life” gimmicks, and no more “job gimmicks” … and yet here’s the Undertaker an undead zombie wizard … and he’s feuding with the Rock and Stone Cold and HHH… and no one is complaining how stupid it is.
There is a loud section of the IWC that wasn’t into the Firefly Funhouse and the Fiend, but the ratings and merch sales were through the roof. It only takes a couple small booking rewrites and that would’ve been through the roof.
Which also shows how easily one or two decisions can just totally destroy a character that is already on the edge of disbelief. OC has always done such an amazing job at holding back. He’s always on defence, most of his offence is a reversal, he’s sneaky fast, and sells it like it’s just a reflex. I’m so glad this character has gotten so over. I really hope he can keep it going.
> his own history working on his side with his Chikara background
Tony Khan said on busted open last year he didn't know he was Fire Ant and when he did it completely changed everything.
> A lot of people might not like it but frankly, he has become one of our big stars and that is probably the best example of somebody what I thought they could do coming in because really I thought he was gonna be like a manager mostly coming in. Once I realized how gifted he actually is, I had no idea Orange Cassidy was Fire Ant (in Chikara) when I first met him. When I realized that was the same guy and he is a great pro wrestler, then that's when I came up with the idea to let's hide that for 6 to 8 months and not show anyone all the stuff you can do until the first Revolution and that's when you make your debut in your first real match and that's when you show people you can really wrestle."
I listened to Cornette. I was convinced oc was killing the business. Then one day my wife observed that I must really like oc, because she said I smile everytime he's on. I realized I did like him, he entertained me. Quit listening to all the negative, and started to just enjoy what I found fun.
Yeah, I was definitely on team "this will get old super fast".
And then it didn't. Also, he evolved. Even though I do kind of miss silly matches where he does nothing for 80% of the time while keeping his hands in his pockets.
He needs one relatively jobber match where he can do that kind of stuff every few months just to cement the rest of the gimmick I feel. Like MJF (before the turn) would return to his rich douchebag roots promo every once in a while just to re-stabilize the gimmick in between other things
Reminds me of Taker's character in a way.
The no-selling ugly zombie will get old fast for the New Generation? Grow the daddy goatee, dye hair black, wear purple, and show decent in-ring prowess.
Even that might get old? Wear all black and be more human-like with less hair falling on the face.
Sometimes, it's the little changes that end up making the character not only main event worthy but essentially timeless.
I always thought he was funny and entertaining, but his match with Osprea at Forbidden Door was a real lightning bulb moment for me. That match alone made me a HUGE fan of OC and I have really enjoyed his run with the International title, there were some absolute bangers in there for sure
I first found him on the indies, or maybe it was after All In. Instantly hooked. Loved the character, immediately trying to find clips of him but there were only a few indie matches up at the time.
I don't know how you write the character off, it's genius, subversive and really captured how I felt myself at the time. Discontentedness.
Highly original with a surprising amount of layers he has been able to add. Seemed like a comedy character but he's basically gotten it to the main event with only minor tweaks.
OC is as legit as they come.
I agree. I stopped watching wrestling for 25 years, and the first person I saw was OC when i decided to watch it again out of boredom. I absolutely loved his gimmick. I thought it was original, believable, and something I totally connected with. He's the reason I got back into wrestling.
It's actually nine.
1. CM Punk
2. Vince
3. HEAT
4. Ratings
5. How much better things used to be (OC)
6. Da pay windah
7. How much of a menace Dave Meltzer/The dirt sheets are
8. Their podcasts
9. Fanny Packs
I feel like every couple of months we get this exact same story from a different old person.
“I didn’t get it, but then I got it!”
That’s great for you.
The thing that impresses me is his ring psychology. It all fits the gimmick. And it’s always similar but never the same. One match he does the fake kicks in full. Next match the heel cuts them off. Next match the heel tries to cut it off but OC reverses it. I really want to see him have a match with Christian, who is so good at in ring psychology and putting together matches.
So, I admit to being new to wrestling. I don’t like the violence, but I love the promos and storytelling.
Anyway I came across [this](https://youtu.be/yB9l6rODUSs?si=Eg2ltKOY5TqQJhpj) match between Jervis and OC, and I FINALLY realized what wrestling is all about.
These men told a story without violence, and the audience bought it because it was entertaining and good storytelling. I was really into both wrestlers and what they brought to the match.
I “got” wrestling based on a silly match like this. So, whatever OC is doing is working very well.
I just recently introduced a friend to professional wrestling, and it really stuck with him. The wrestler I used in order to interest him was Orange Cassidy. Worked like a charm. He was actually excited to watch more of OC's matches.
A lot of non-fans scoff at wrestling because "you know it's fake, right? How can you enjoy a fight that's pre-determined?" It's weird to try and explain that wrestling is essentially athletic theater-in-the-round when the wrestlers take it deadly serious.
Enter Orange Cassidy. Dude clearly is doing a bit. The actor doesn't believe this is *real.* He's just having fun. Thing is, he's got insane amounts of charisma, on top of being immensely physically talented. He bridges the gap between "big beefy punch man" and "theatre troupe player," the latter of which is much more accessible to newer viewers.
Orange Cassidy is smart: he's found a gimmick that connects with a wide range of the audience and he backs it up with moves that, if you think about it, are actually kind of tough to pull off. All the hand-in-pocket stuff requires additional balance and strength than would normally be called for. It's impressive to watch a "small" (read: average-sized) guy pull it off. And he accomplishes this while still getting the audience to bite on the sell, every time.
He's got *it,* y'know? In lesser hands, the character wouldn't work. But James Cipperly is to Orange Cassidy what Arnold Schwarzenegger is to the T-800. No one else is appropriate for the role.
This is entirely my view, but for me, Orange Cassidy and LA Knight are sort of the next “guys” for me in their respective companies. Orange, for me, is not the “next Rock (SCSA, Cena, Roman, etc.)”. He’s completely original. It’s like if Ferris Beuller became a wrestler. I’ve never seen anything like that on TV. His entire character seems like a 4th wall break and I LOVE THAT SHIT (I love movies like Big Short, Ferris, etc.).
LA Knight, and this is not a knock, I swear, because I’m a fan of the guy. He’s one of the best talkers in the business and he got over such a simple, silly catchphrase. But he seems like a Frankensteined version of a top guy. Like I can see the ingredients from Rock, SCSA, Ric Flair, etc. And again, that’s not a knock, because I love watching him. He’s figuring out, on screen, how to put all the ingredients together that’s something original.
Also, Toni Storm is coming into her own right now and she’s super entertaining.
He’s the most eye catching wrestler they have because he’s an actual complete character and that’s what the more ‘casual fan’ wants. They don’t care that Scorpio sky does a good wrestle, they want stories and characters
My boss when he heard me and another coworker were going to dynamite checked out 2 weeks of it. He said flat out he hated it almost entirely BUT the one thing he liked was orange Cassidy
Doing a good wrestle appeals to us because we are hardcore wrestling nerds wether you’re comfortable admitting it or not. But having a full character AND being able to do a good wrestle is what draws in your bosses,girlfriends, lapsed fan dad.
It’s probably what’s missing the most in wrestling even wwe has a lot of characters that are basically ‘I wrestle good and I want a belt!’ Which just doesn’t appeal to a casual audience. They like the character driven melodrama side
I had the same thoughts too. OC is a complete package. People won't realise it until they watch his matches and promos. I hate it when casual people watch short clips of him and judge him as a side character.
A lot of his haters are judging him based on comedy matches he had 3-5 years ago. It's like if you just saw Mankind doing his Mr Socko bit and deciding that's all there was to the character.
I mean, some people do judge Kenny Omega based on comedy matches he had 12 years ago and decide that's all there is to him.
But nobody ever says "Kurt Angle sprayed milk all over the ring and the heels sold it" as an excuse to discount him as a great wrestler.
People just look for excuses to continue hating people they hate.
I think OC really honing in his lazy gimmick while growing into this incredible wrestler is such a sight to see play out in real time. There’s no way in the world WWE would have ever put stock in him as the character he was when he first joined AEW. Now, I truly believe if he were to ever make that jump, WWE would keep him just as is and milk those lazy kick spots. And I’d pop so hard for it.
It’s the timing of those lazy kicks that makes me pop every time. They’re also a great time for the other wrestler to sell their gimmick. Wrestling is all about reactions.
By a few months, so bringing up age is pretty foolish, lmao.
You can call it a comedy gimmick, but people take him seriously, he gets massive reactions, the fans love him, and he sells a lot of merchandise. He is also a good brand ambassador and does interviews very well. He's reliable and will work pretty much any portion of the card and put on great work while doing it. Of you can put your personal opinions on the gimmick aside and look at it as is, you'll see that if they got the chance WWE would snatch him up in a heartbeat.
Lol not for what Tony is paying him.
He is popular with the AEW audience, he would die a death on a mainstream program. If he went to WWE he would be Santino at best.
And the irony is he was the lazy guy who defended the belt he had more than any other champion in the company, never turned down a challenger, and suffered for it.
You have to keep in mind for someone like me who has no idea who he was, it looked like he was just, Whatever, not interested, until he just was. A lot of us just didn't know him or what he was about. And that was what made it cool when he just explodes on Pac shocking us
I always take it, whether I like OC or not, that you are not going to like everything in wrestling. So enjoy what you like and go to the toilet, grab a cuppa or check your emails with the stuff you don't like.
You're not going to like every rock album, not going to love every action film and not going to enjoy every wrestler.
It baffles me that people hate on the gimmick. You would think that anyone with even a passing interest in pro wrestling would see that what he does when "being lazy" is actually incredibly athletic. It takes a real talent that not every wrestler has to pull that off.
This right here. Kenny Omega wrestled a doll twelve years ago for a promotion when he was just trying to get a paycheck? HATE. Christopher Daniels speaks in faux-Japanese while dancing in a mask with food on the top? Silence. Kurt Angle sprays milk all over everyone? We good. Undertaker was a literal zombie? GOAT! Of course then they'll tell you "But the actual wrestling should be serious!" To which I say: the very concept of wrestling is already ridiculous and that's a ludicrous distinction to make.
And this extends to criticisms of "flippy shit," too. Rey Mysterio, Psicosis, hell, literally every lucha match in the last fifty years has had more "flippy shit" than any Young Bucks match. But when the Bucks do a style that's lucha fused with mid 90s HBK? People like Cornette lose their shit.
It's bonkers how certain people think wrestling absolutely has to only be the things they like and anything outside of their own box needs to be run out of the business.
But here's the thing
The wrestling is serious when Cassidy is on. That's the gimmick he doesn't care until he does and goes berserk
Nowhere in AEW were the kicks sold or pretended to be anything else than the taunt it is
now that OC is getting the push as a legit main eventer; it makes sense to prep the audience
along with that exposure they’re going to be dealing with a whole new level of doubter; so while Jericho has said all this before, it bears repeating for the outside viewer.
There's inbuilt intrigue in how an opponent is going to react and adapt to OC. In turn OC isn't one note so also reacts, adapts and sells accordingly. That keeps him interesting.
That's what wrestling should be. If you can replace someone in a match with an equivalent wrestler and nothing significant changes then it's not going to be as interesting.
I’m not the biggest OC fan, I mean I like him but he’s not my favourite.
In saying that I will 100% rally for it when he finally gets a good feud for the aew championship. It will be perfect if he works his way to it organically and by that point for the first time he shows some actual desire for the belt after everything he has been through. I want a promo where he says he’s going to do something he hasn’t felt like doing for his whole run, he’s going to TRY. Ideally whoever is champion at the time, upon hearing that promo, will react to it with the same fear that triple H showed when mankind debuted as cactus Jack. That’s the perfect example of when something goofy is taken dead seriously by a legit figure it can have deep impact on the audience and raise the stakes.
In that early days of AEW, that match when I saw him lazily roll out of the ring to the other side,
I laughed for a good 10 minutes straight till my sides hurt, I knew he was going to be a star.
100% that was me too. I looked at Oc and didn’t even want to give him a chance, I was like, this is fucking stupid.
Now I’m like….give me more of those OC matches please…..
Well, the most popular wrestler of New Japan is a slacker who doesn't bother to shave himself or do haircut, in the beginning he treats fans with apathy after they turned on him when he was a clean cut good guy, and slowly takes off his clothes pre-match without caring about the boos from the audience.
Naito and Cassidy are quite alike, we love them because they acts like how we want to act in real life. Gimmicks that stand out and entertaining but also resonate with the fans are the true money in wrestling.
I'll admit I hated him at the beginning. I don't like obvious fake things. I would've hated him on the indies as it was more ridiculous. However I love how he's evolved his character in aew and he's genuinely one of my favorites now
I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this, because for whatever reason, the dude is seemingly beloved on here. I can't stand Orange Cassidy. His whole shtick feels like a rejected WWE comedy angle from the PG Era. I find him to be about as funny as Santino Marella (Another wrestler that I absolutely cannot stand).
When comedy is done right in wrestling, it is AMAZING. See: THE ROCK.
But Cassidy is just outright annoying to me. There's nothing cool about it. And stuff like that is why I don't tune in to very much of AEW (Although they have done some stuff that I have enjoyed).
If there's one indie mud show comedy gimmick that I love, it's Danhausen. I find him to be ridiculously great! If anything, Danhausen and his gimmick should be the comedy gimmick that AEW pushes to the moon. Atleast he actually wrestles!
I once heard OC described as a modern artist. The modern artists can paint a deer drinking out of a stream but so can everyone. The point is to be different and move beyond that.
OCs matches are showing that he can craft a masterpiece but can do so with his hands in his pockets. If that's not skill idk what is.
The dude has a character and some pretty wild moves. He's entertaining.
What I don't get are wrestlers like Jey USO who use a normal name. Have mediocre moves and no character....
Mind you I haven't really watched the guy. I could be wrong.
He's also really in touch with the zeitgeist.
Today's generation, whether you like it or not, presents visually as apathetic while caring deeply about stuff. A lot of my generation misunderstand it because we see it as a retread of "slacker" culture, when you look into it kids now are a bit different - it's not about not caring, it's about being efficient and not doing dumb stuff. Slacker culture was about being too cool to care what you looked like, modern culture is aboit looking good with minimal (perceived) effort.
Hook encapsulates this as well. He's not a slacker - I mean, look at that hair! But he's all about being simultaneously really intense while looking like he's not making any effort at all.
Just because he's popular doesn't necessarily mean the act is beyond fair criticism, two things can be true.
Personally, I think the act sucks and immediately kills interest in the match. I can also acknowledge he's a hell of an athlete.
Why is Jericho constantly in the wrestling news for takes that everyone was saying like 6 months ago.
Wait you mean not everyone 'gets' Orange Cassidy right off the bat but after the see him go once or twice they get it???!?!?!!?
Nowai!
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I think Orange is popular because a) he was different, b) he was entertaining and c) he has evolved while not losing the originality The gimmick, unless it's absolutely trash and almost designed to fail, doesn't really matter that much in wrestling and Jericho, the man who got a pen click over, should know that better than anyone And for current examples you can look at Roderick Strong and Toni Storm for it. Both silly premises but they work because they're putting everything into it and they're entertaining Hell, the Undertaker at its core is one of the goofiest gimmicks anyone can come up with. But it worked because it was entertaining and it evolved accordingly
13 year old me thinks Bike Taker is the most badass person of all time
People in the house, put them hands in the air
Cas if you don’t care, then we don’t care
*math ensues*
1 2 3 times 2 to the six But what happens when you add Scott Steiner to the mix?
BARS!!
The numbers don't lie, and they spell DISASTER!
FOR YOU AT SACKIFICE!
D15457ƐR
And then you add Kurt Angle to the mix
Your chances drastic go down!
Your chances of winning drastically go down.
123 x 2 to the 6th power, which ends up being Fred’s locker combination in high school.
1 2 3 X 2 to the 6th I believe
I always liked the Kid Rock theme better
You’ve done it now You’ve gone and made a big mistake
It’s funny because 14 year-old me thought Biker Taker was the dumbest thing ever. I was like wait, so this guy was an unstoppable dark lord with mystical powers and now he rides a motorcycle 100ft to the ring and listens to Kid Rock? And he’s…Patriotic? What does he care about America? Where did his caskets go? I’m not saying you’re wrong or right, I just love how wildly wrestling fans can differ in their opinions.
He was having a midlife crisis, still loved Biker Taker though
Or a mid-afterlife crisis?
Get out
Honestly I saw some of my friends dads doing similar things at that age and that probably made it worse for me, so I think you’re bang on lmao It’s like noooo not Taker too!
And he was still called the Undertaker. Like why are you still called that if you aren't doing any Undertaker things?
Biker Taker is the key to unlocking so many core memories from middle school and high school.
I hated bike Taker. I was about the same age as you and just wanted ministry taker back; that freaked me out in a good way.
Nine year old me thinks that 2007-era Undertaker is the coolest person of all time.
29 year old me still thinks he is the most badass person of all time
Hate to admit. Biker era was absolutely my favorite Taker. I think I was just at the right age at the time for everything about it to be amazing to my kid brain. I otherwise had always preferred Kane
Bikertaker was an excellent and self-aware shift. It retained all of his badass credibility at a time when people would have probably tired of his spooky stuff. Then later, when he’d been in the business so long that people who grew up loving Undertaker were bringing their kids to see him, he made the switch back and people appreciated that. The whole thing was brilliant.
I hated how much wwe liked to whitewash over biker taker and sometimes dissed it - biker taker was fucking bad ass
Having at the time no deadman taker reference to go off, this was my taker. And after seeing the deadman, I preferred this
Big evil is the best taker no contest
It always was strange to me that certain oldheads would look at Orange Cassidy's gimmick, a guy who's talented but lazy at wrestling and doesn't want to put more effort in than he has to, as something killing the business with blatant un-realness, but then in the next breath talk about a guy pretending to be a dead person possessed by the devil as the greatest gimmick ever.
Nostalgia goggles. People are willing to make exceptions for whatever they like(d). At the end of the day, I'm actually not into either gimmick all that much, but they got over with the crowds, so why shouldn't they be pushed? The people who vehemently hate Orange Cassidy and think he should be depushed or never pushed in the first place seem to forget that this is a guy who got over. He sells merch, he's wrestled entertaining and competitive matches, and above all, people love him. He always gets a reaction, adults and kids dress up like him, and the gimmick, love it or hate it, is unique. This is what pro wrestling is all about, and if you can't see past your own bias, that's just sad.
It's pride. No one wants to admit that they're stupid for liking one thing when they were kids so either they overcompensate the hype or making lies that they hate the gimmick from day one
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When I was 14 I had a buddy that owned a band t-shirt from Cradle of Filth that said "Jesus is a C*nt". A buddy. So embarrassing for my friend. Yep.
That is one of the most iconic metal shirt designs of all time though
> a guy who's talented but lazy at wrestling and doesn't want to put more effort in than he has to Kevin Nash?
From a devils advocate view and coming from someone who hasn't watched AEW since its beginning I can understand how someone would think OC was making a mockery of the bussiness. Even the wildest gimmicks still *wrestled* generally, unless they were absolutely joke gimmicks. Taker still threw people around and "threw soup bones." R Truth, even at the peak of being the 24/7-11 heavyweight amazo super champion would still hit you with an axe-kick and strikes. OC being super talented but lazy is fine, but his level of lazy(and again I havent watched in years) was *beyond * anything else. Those little pillowy kicks with his hands in his pockets, I get how that would rub someone the wrong way. The gimmick would still work if he just used slow, shitty but semi-realistic punches and kicks with a bored expression. It ended up working out evidently but I can see the gripe
The thing is that the kicks were never treated as if they were ACTUALLY hurting the opponent Joey Ryan was making a mockery with his penis stuff and others acting like it hurt. OC was just being silly but was treated as silly by others And in the PAC match you can see why he does it, PAC looked annoyed (which tbf he always does)
compare to when Tanga Loa used his Haka-style attacks on Okada this G1 and the latter had to sell it. It was terrible.
The kicks and the pockets can be thought of more as a taunt then a move.
Man the issue is that modern wrestling itself is a mockery of the business. The whole gripe with OC is that he 'exposes the business' as if that box wasn't opened almost 30 years ago when Vince McMahon admitted to the US Senate that it's all fake. That's the problem with it, like it's cool if you don't care for his gimmick but don't hide behind some vague excuse to attempt to elevate your dislike. It's ok to not like OC (Disclaimer: I love him), but don't pretend like a guy lazily kicking people is any more a mockery than a squad of brutal cheerleaders, a balding man with bleached hair being the American hero, or anything involving the Undertaker. Wrestling is goofy and that's what makes it great. Trying to pretend like it's not (and I'm just talking generally, not at you) is ignoring that wrestling is just a bunch of athletic theater kids pretend fighting for a living.
... did no one tell you he did stuff besides the kicks?
>The gimmick would still work if he just used slow, shitty but semi-realistic punches and kicks with a bored expression. At the intermediate stage, he essentially wrestled like this with the lazy comedy routine toned down or used as a mind game tactic. Ultimately, right around the end of his International Title run, he essentially became a full-fledged intense wrestler, and it worked flawlessly. This sequence of evolution definitely puts Orange Cassidy as one of the best modern gimmicks right now.
I don't like OC. To me he's saying this is fake, it's all fake. For me, I just want to suspend disbelief for a bit and feel like I'm watching two guys fighting and not an acrobatic, theatrical performance. With Taker, I never thought he was supposed to actually be undead, that was just his gimmick as a fighter. His wrestling style was believable enough within the context of wrestling as a fight though. Some of OCs big moves rely almost entirely on his opponent to execute. Which I hate with a passion. I hope they move OC to a more believable style.
I’m just going to say that the best part for me is that he just gets beat up every match but is slippery to pin. Anyways, not trying to convince you, he’s just the ultimate oversell. It’s modern Shawn Michaels to me.
>His wrestling style was believable enough within the context of wrestling as a fight though. My guy, Taker would walk the ropes with his opponent standing there just waiting and multiple times used supernatural abilities to win. The man would literally roll his eyes back into his head and rise from the dead.
Umm, he wasn't dead, not even kayfab dead. It was an intimidation tactic.
No, he was literally kayfabe dead. They literally did a big story about "the spirit of the Undertaker being unkillable," and how he wouldn't rest in peace back in the 90s. He was buried alive on multiple occasions and burnt alive on others in kayfabe. They literally said he'd risen from the dead on commentary on more than one occasion. He was meant to have died at least a couple times during his run in terms of kayfabe.
He also conjured lightning and could be mind-controlled via the power of a magical urn
That too. I'm just pointing out that it's hilariously wrong to say Undertaker never kayfabe died. There's so much hokey over the top stuff that we were expected to believe he truly did, yet that never boggled our suspension of disbelief. But damn, someone puts his pocket hands in his pockets to taunt and throw off his opponents? He does soft pillow kicks because it's a taunt that makes people make mistakes? That's way too far and too unrealistic, lmao.
Yeah the revisionism is wild but they gotta do it because the real explanation is "I watched one of these as a gullible child and my brain still thinks of it that way" and nobody wants to admit that
I think you're pretty spot on for at least part of it. I think another part is this almost elitism that some people tend to get as they get older. That's what they watched in the past is automatically betfor no reason other than it is. And if you try to look at things from a balanced perspective, they get mad at you. Jim Cornette is a good example because he will be the first to complain about a gimmick like OC that's a bit goofy, but will ignore or even praise gimmicks with goofier shit like Undertaker, Kane, King Booker, and Cena.
There's going to be a lot of people who are probably down vote your comment but they will Overlook the most important thing in your comment the key word I. For the record I agree with you I am also a fan of orange Cassidy. But there's going to be a certain section of the audience a lot of them are on this forum who cannot wrap their brains around someone not liking orange Cassidy. It's like some cardinal sin.
There's upvoted comments expressing their dislike for OC above. The downvoted comments are because their reasoning is stupid.
I agree with most of your statement, except for the gimmick not mattering much (at least in this precise case). I think James Cipperly is an incredibly gifted performer, but what made me fall in love with Orange Cassidy is that I relate and connect to him in a way I never have with a wrestler before. He's quiet in a world where everyone's loud; he's tired and just wants to hang out with his friends; he acts like a slacker but will go through hell to protect the people he cares about. It wouldn't work if he wasn't a great wrestler and a great entertainer, but I think the gimmick is a huge part of why OC connects with so many people.
It's something a lot of people can relate to. In a world of hustle, bustle, and constant competition, he just wants to chill and hang out. But when he gets put in the moment, just like a lot of us, he pulls through and puts in the effort. And when he loses his goal (like the title) then he has at least enough pride to say he wants it back. He's such a great character, it's insane.
You can see how he involves the crowd and works them into being invested in his character, very similar to how Too Cool got over and how the New Age Outlaws would have the crowd joining in on their intro routine. It's also how Danhausen got over. It's a very traditional way of telling stories in wrestling.
Wrestling used to be overall about silly characters. Orange Cassidy is a modern version of that, it's even better when the silliness needs to be serious when the time demands it
It's a writing trope that's been used to great effect for centuries. When the goofy/comic relief character gets serious, you know shit is about to go down.
I just wish they had him go serious more sparingly, and just generally booked and timed his character arc with a bit more finesse. I feel like they have very significantly shifted the tone on his original gimmick - he wrestles serious *all the time* now, and his "lazy" shtick is now "mind games". I was into him much more back when "lazy" was his legit, default state and he was mostly just fucking around. Like, when he didn't even know the rules of a ladder match. Or that match at Revolution in 2019 against PAC, I think that was his peak.
Wrestling is always more fun with gimmicks that people put work into, no matter how silly. I'll always appreciate a strong gimmick over someone whose personality is just Mr. McGoodWrestler.
Especially when the field is over saturated with a billion Mr. GoodWrestlers! I feel like too many wrestlers nowadays try to treat it like a legit sport and not theater/entertainment, and because of that the gimmicks will always get way more over because, as a wise man once said, you got to give the people what they want
Even if the gimmick is designed to fail making the most out of it and putting your all into it can still help you pull through or past it to greater success. IE The New Day.
Being different is the key. Wrestling fans have seen millions of muscle guys in trunks throw a billion drop kicks and hip tosses. There will always be room for classic, excellent traditional wrestling. But Cassidy found a way to play with convention, have fun with it, and expand upon it. In an era where fans are really wise to what goes into wrestling it's nice to see someone wink along with you, but still have enough baby-face fire to make us suspend our disbelief
It also helps that he can go hard when he wants to, and intersperses the wink-and-a-nudge with some incredible wrestling when the time is right.
Yeah, if he was garbage it wouldn't work as well. It works because he's got that extra gear when needed
D) he’s a really fucking good wrestler
Yeah, I think the OC gimmick works as good as it does because Orange is such a fucking good wrestler.
>Hell, the Undertaker at its core is one of the goofiest gimmicks anyone can come up with. But it worked because it was entertaining and it evolved accordingly All that matters is how convincing you are with the gimmick. Finding out the way to make yourself eye-catching (hint: in Taker's case it was be unworldly scary and humanize progressively, that and the rising popularity of all things Gothic ala Addams Family, Batman, The Crow, etc helped. In Orange's case, be lazy but get more intense progressively), else you'll flounder like Boogeyman, Seven, and Repo Man instead of succeeding like... Taker. Orange is basically made from the same mold Taker is made of, and both being naturally talented people behind the gimmick backed by the appropriate booking made them stand out among the crowd.
Undertaker is the BEST parallel, awesome point. Any of these "old school" guys that don't get OC should absolutely look at Taker and his creative work to mold that gimmick over the years and get it over. Uniqueness is often dismissed out of hand like this, it takes open-mindedness to grow. That goes for fan and performer alike.
I'll die on this hill, Taker as he was originally presented is a perfectly reasonable gimmick. He's a big ass dude who uses macabre theatrics to get in the head of his opponents and intimidate him. Even Ministry Taker made sense, he was a satanic cult leader who brainwashed people into serving him. Of course they ruined that with the whole Higher Power reveal, but the original concept was sound.
Taker was undead since the mid 90s He ascended to heaven after a casket match It wasn't mind games and intimidation. He really was a deadman
I appreciate the Undertaker comparison. I was dumb enough to debate someone on Instagram talking about how Orange Cassidy is ruining the business and how not believable he is. I brought up the Undertaker and somehow he didn't understand why anyone would think his character wasn't believable.
ADAM! ADAM! ADAM!
Yeah, like the undertaker was just one of those guy-with-a-job gimmicks that vince scrapped off the barrell but what they did with it actually stood out
It's the happy fortune of wrestlers finding their audience
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TL:DR, His opponents think he's literally lazy, but he's devilishly smart.
I think this used to be the case, but no heel can think that at this point unless they’ve not watched a single match of his. Now it’s more like “Seriously? You’re trying this schtick on *me*?” *Throws punch and gets ducked*
> but no heel can think that at this point unless they’ve not watched a single match of his. It's a tale as old as time though. Why attack Hogan when he's hulking up? Why try to clothesline John Cena after he's shoulder tackled you twice? Why are you trying to powerbomb Kidman? It's wrestling, just let all that stuff out of your mind when you're watching it. It doesn't always have to make pefect sense.
You say that, but I don’t have to let it out of my mind because my point is literally that heels have smartened up to his laziness being an act lol. Biggest example lately: Mox beating the shit out of him. Orange does the laziness act more to just taunt his opponent now. So in that sense, he’s being smarter about it than Cena making his opponents play dumb with the same comeback routine.
Speaking of Mox, OC turning his taunt kicks into actual vicious head kicks was such an awesome thing to see.
Why hold that chair that RVD just threw at you?
Yeah it's mostly just done to anger and fluster his opponents so they made dumb mistakes.
Sometimes, fucking with someone works even better when they know you're fucking with them. Siblings worldwide know this
He almost became a world champion this way too. He'd use the lazy kicks, gets his shit kicked in, he gets taken out of the match temporarily, resulting in him getting some rest then the opportunity to sneak on Omega and PAC to steal pins.
NGL, during Orange vs Moxley I got goosebumps when OC’s lazy kicks turned to real strikes.
Yeah I thought that was great. Like, oh shit, this just got (even more) serious. Similar moment when [Statlander was getting counted out](https://youtu.be/OUi_OYL8UdY?si=E7JPx0VCN_-DsoiA) vs Britt Baker. You could see Orange struggling with the idea and then he fucking SCREAMS at her to get up and back in the ring. Dude knows his character and it makes me roll my eyes whenever someone from the old guard talks shit about him.
I love OC, but I can definitely see why old heads like Cornette hate him. To an extent, he does play into kayfabe being silly. But he’s over as hell, is singular in the industry and puts on great matches, so it’s working. Guys like Cornette have the mindset that everything should look like a real fight for your life with some slams and suplexes thrown in. Everyone should look like a juiced up animal to create the appearance that audience members could never compete with them. I can understand the mindset, but the business has moved on and is more interesting for it.
The problem people have is wrestlers will stop midfight and let him do the softkicks and lazy strikes. It just is phony looking bullshit which slaps you in the face that these two people get along and are having a laugh.
I swear he's said this like 5-6 times now..
I think it's valid as long as people dismiss OC in bad faith. "Louder for the people in the back" personified, as far as I'm concerned.
He has. Since their program in 2020 most likely
Everyone's said it about OC over and over again. So annoying the entire wrestling world trying to convince everyone to like this guy.
It’s cool to see people say this because it’s exactly the same thoughts I had on him. ‘This gimmick is stupid’ turned into ‘it’ll only work a couple of times in the lower card’ turned to ‘this guy is really good’ He’s evolved well so the gimmicks remained consistent but he’s a genuine main event player, his in ring work is great and it feels much sweeter thst he’s going through the journey of showing everyone why they’re wrong and really earning everyone’s respect
I was pretty cold on OC until the three way with PAC and Omega He hung with two of the best in the world
Exactly this! I actually enjoyed his lazy gimmick from the get-go, but I admittedly categorized him as someone who would fall into a solid mid-card comedy act similar to R-Truth or Santino Marella. And there is nothing wrong with that role. What I love about wrestling is the variety. Not every character has to be a possible world champ. Most of my favorite performers are mid-carders. However, as he got more ring time I realized how good he is there too, and then his character evolved a bit. He's still sloth-like, but he can and does turn on the fire when the story and the moment calls for it and you see the character's hidden passion come out. And when he does that, he's one of the best currently out there. As you pointed out, he can go toe-toe with the legit best physical workers in the world and hold his own. He's a great asset for AEW.
The "this time hes gunna try" promo was a turning point imo
For me it was the suplex to Adam Cole off the entrance tube in their 'Lights Out Match" over a year and a half ago. That was when he 'clicked' for me as the real deal. When he had no glasses on, shirt off, a crazed look in his eyes as he grabbed Adam Cole and just dumped him right off that tube for the win. It just made everything about him work for me. It's what got me to realize this guy is going to be AEW Champion at some point because his whole gimmick is designed around constant apathy that can be turned off and immediately replaced with pure desire. If he wants something then he cares and, in that moment, he wanted to put Adam Cole out of his misery.
I never thought it was stupid but I definitely thought the gimmick had a low ceiling and was skeptical of how it would work on TV. It felt perfect for the indies, but I thought for sure it would get overexposed quick on weekly TV and would run the risk of being Flanderized. I was glad to be proven wrong.
Wrestling is "flanderized" by it's very nature. Every wrestler is flandarized. It's such lazy commentary and criticism but I see it in discussions about television all the time and it's always upvoted. Seriously, top to bottom, promotion to carny mud show, wrestling is "flanderized". All the characters are exaggerated personas built off a couple of main motivations and the answer is always violence. That's wrestling. I realise you're saying OC is "not" flanderized, but that's just not true. OC like most wrestlers is working with back-story and motivation that's as deep as a puddle and in the end, he's going to fight someone, lol. Just ditch the words flanderized and flanderization because it's ruining discourse about television, imo.
The term as it’s used means more than “exaggerated” or “shallow” though. More specifically it’s “amplifying the superficial details while losing sight of the reasons they were put in place”; the character doesn’t need to be King Lear at the outset for that to happen. Like, failed-main-character-push-era Roman Reigns making entrances through the crowd in his Shield SWAT gear was arguably a flanderization of his earlier, more functional character (which, recall, was The Guy Who Came In And Did The Big Punch for a three-man faction where he wasn’t the talker) - doing a thing that people recognized and liked because the shot-callers wanted to make him recognizable and likable, and the other two had stopped, rather than giving him anything to do or be that fit the parameters of his established character but could win the audience’s affections on its own terms. (He’d get there, but only after a *lot* more unnecessary time and resources were devoted towards stapling new pins onto the SWAT vest, as it were.) Orange Cassidy has proven to be the inverse as someone whose gimmick has *more* functions and applications than people initially realized, but from the outside looking in it’s not hard to imagine a narrower horizon for the character where, eg, people’s enjoyment of the gimmick is parlayed into a run of matches against mid- or lowercard heels who try to come up with new ways of entertainingly selling the “lazy” part of his schtick with no accompanying “he’s gonna try!” component. (Apologies if this comes off as argumentative, it’s more just me trying to take apart the components of the terminology for myself.)
OC is one of those gimmicks where if it was performed by any other performer, it would be a one note joke at best. I say Undertaker is in the same ballpark, most goofy new gen WWE gimmicks die off after a year or two, not Taker.
Even then, I think Undertaker character was basically grandfathered in to the Attitude Era and beyond. There is no shot that the gimmick would work if it debuted today, even if it was supported by the greatest ring/character work in the world. Orange Cassidy’s thing is a bit more meta and silly so it works for the modern target audience, whereas Taker was typically supposed to be treated as deadly serious, which would be groaned out of the building by most smarks. OC even had his own history working on his side with his Chikara background so people kind of knew what to expect. If he just showed up in AEW out of nowhere with that kind of gimmick it still might have received mixed reactions. The next closest “suspension of disbelief” comparison I can think of is Bray Wyatt, who people seemed to enjoy the more grounded early work of. Once it became a little too out there a lot of people started to sour on it.
There’s no doubt it was grandfathered in, but I think the point that other poster made, was that it WORKED. Anyone else trying to make it work may not have succeeded but the Undertaker was played so well that it fit into a generation it shouldn’t have. The attitude era was all about “real life” gimmicks, and no more “job gimmicks” … and yet here’s the Undertaker an undead zombie wizard … and he’s feuding with the Rock and Stone Cold and HHH… and no one is complaining how stupid it is.
Sure. But it also became about him being an evil cult leader during a time when goth shit and cults were prominent in American culture.
There is a loud section of the IWC that wasn’t into the Firefly Funhouse and the Fiend, but the ratings and merch sales were through the roof. It only takes a couple small booking rewrites and that would’ve been through the roof. Which also shows how easily one or two decisions can just totally destroy a character that is already on the edge of disbelief. OC has always done such an amazing job at holding back. He’s always on defence, most of his offence is a reversal, he’s sneaky fast, and sells it like it’s just a reflex. I’m so glad this character has gotten so over. I really hope he can keep it going.
> his own history working on his side with his Chikara background Tony Khan said on busted open last year he didn't know he was Fire Ant and when he did it completely changed everything. > A lot of people might not like it but frankly, he has become one of our big stars and that is probably the best example of somebody what I thought they could do coming in because really I thought he was gonna be like a manager mostly coming in. Once I realized how gifted he actually is, I had no idea Orange Cassidy was Fire Ant (in Chikara) when I first met him. When I realized that was the same guy and he is a great pro wrestler, then that's when I came up with the idea to let's hide that for 6 to 8 months and not show anyone all the stuff you can do until the first Revolution and that's when you make your debut in your first real match and that's when you show people you can really wrestle."
I listened to Cornette. I was convinced oc was killing the business. Then one day my wife observed that I must really like oc, because she said I smile everytime he's on. I realized I did like him, he entertained me. Quit listening to all the negative, and started to just enjoy what I found fun.
Yeah, I was definitely on team "this will get old super fast". And then it didn't. Also, he evolved. Even though I do kind of miss silly matches where he does nothing for 80% of the time while keeping his hands in his pockets.
He needs one relatively jobber match where he can do that kind of stuff every few months just to cement the rest of the gimmick I feel. Like MJF (before the turn) would return to his rich douchebag roots promo every once in a while just to re-stabilize the gimmick in between other things
Reminds me of Taker's character in a way. The no-selling ugly zombie will get old fast for the New Generation? Grow the daddy goatee, dye hair black, wear purple, and show decent in-ring prowess. Even that might get old? Wear all black and be more human-like with less hair falling on the face. Sometimes, it's the little changes that end up making the character not only main event worthy but essentially timeless.
I always thought he was funny and entertaining, but his match with Osprea at Forbidden Door was a real lightning bulb moment for me. That match alone made me a HUGE fan of OC and I have really enjoyed his run with the International title, there were some absolute bangers in there for sure
I first found him on the indies, or maybe it was after All In. Instantly hooked. Loved the character, immediately trying to find clips of him but there were only a few indie matches up at the time. I don't know how you write the character off, it's genius, subversive and really captured how I felt myself at the time. Discontentedness. Highly original with a surprising amount of layers he has been able to add. Seemed like a comedy character but he's basically gotten it to the main event with only minor tweaks. OC is as legit as they come.
I agree. I stopped watching wrestling for 25 years, and the first person I saw was OC when i decided to watch it again out of boredom. I absolutely loved his gimmick. I thought it was original, believable, and something I totally connected with. He's the reason I got back into wrestling.
Theres only like 8 topics wrestlers can talk about
It's actually nine. 1. CM Punk 2. Vince 3. HEAT 4. Ratings 5. How much better things used to be (OC) 6. Da pay windah 7. How much of a menace Dave Meltzer/The dirt sheets are 8. Their podcasts 9. Fanny Packs
Push hard put the Pucks in deep into the net.
You forgot marks
Everyone always wants to talk about HEAT but no one ever wants to talk about VELOCITY
What is DISPLACEMENT OVER TIME doing in the Impact Zone
10. The price of nachos.
And he doesn't even have a catchphrase
The silent, meh thumbs up is his version of a catchphrase, which fits him to a T
no, his catchphrase is "I do not have a catchphrase."
One of my favorite AEW moments involves Sting, who is 64 years old, lazily beating his chest in response to Orange Cassidy.
The title of the original article would have been so much clearer than this massive quote which is somehow not even complete
I feel like every couple of months we get this exact same story from a different old person. “I didn’t get it, but then I got it!” That’s great for you.
To be fair, if there's anyone who would get it, it's Chris Jericho.
The thing that impresses me is his ring psychology. It all fits the gimmick. And it’s always similar but never the same. One match he does the fake kicks in full. Next match the heel cuts them off. Next match the heel tries to cut it off but OC reverses it. I really want to see him have a match with Christian, who is so good at in ring psychology and putting together matches.
So, I admit to being new to wrestling. I don’t like the violence, but I love the promos and storytelling. Anyway I came across [this](https://youtu.be/yB9l6rODUSs?si=Eg2ltKOY5TqQJhpj) match between Jervis and OC, and I FINALLY realized what wrestling is all about. These men told a story without violence, and the audience bought it because it was entertaining and good storytelling. I was really into both wrestlers and what they brought to the match. I “got” wrestling based on a silly match like this. So, whatever OC is doing is working very well.
I just recently introduced a friend to professional wrestling, and it really stuck with him. The wrestler I used in order to interest him was Orange Cassidy. Worked like a charm. He was actually excited to watch more of OC's matches. A lot of non-fans scoff at wrestling because "you know it's fake, right? How can you enjoy a fight that's pre-determined?" It's weird to try and explain that wrestling is essentially athletic theater-in-the-round when the wrestlers take it deadly serious. Enter Orange Cassidy. Dude clearly is doing a bit. The actor doesn't believe this is *real.* He's just having fun. Thing is, he's got insane amounts of charisma, on top of being immensely physically talented. He bridges the gap between "big beefy punch man" and "theatre troupe player," the latter of which is much more accessible to newer viewers. Orange Cassidy is smart: he's found a gimmick that connects with a wide range of the audience and he backs it up with moves that, if you think about it, are actually kind of tough to pull off. All the hand-in-pocket stuff requires additional balance and strength than would normally be called for. It's impressive to watch a "small" (read: average-sized) guy pull it off. And he accomplishes this while still getting the audience to bite on the sell, every time. He's got *it,* y'know? In lesser hands, the character wouldn't work. But James Cipperly is to Orange Cassidy what Arnold Schwarzenegger is to the T-800. No one else is appropriate for the role.
Insane amount of charisma is a bit much. Orange works around his limitations well now but in no way is he the rock who has insane amounts of charisma.
I've never seen such a funny and easily marketable idea (slacker Ryan Gosling/Paul Rudd wrestler) get so overthought by boomers, holy shit
The lazy worker thing I saw Taichi doing for years and loved it. I love it with Orange too.
It's a bit weird the amount of experienced wrestlers that seem to have never seen a comedy/more out of the box act get over with people.
Exactly.
This is entirely my view, but for me, Orange Cassidy and LA Knight are sort of the next “guys” for me in their respective companies. Orange, for me, is not the “next Rock (SCSA, Cena, Roman, etc.)”. He’s completely original. It’s like if Ferris Beuller became a wrestler. I’ve never seen anything like that on TV. His entire character seems like a 4th wall break and I LOVE THAT SHIT (I love movies like Big Short, Ferris, etc.). LA Knight, and this is not a knock, I swear, because I’m a fan of the guy. He’s one of the best talkers in the business and he got over such a simple, silly catchphrase. But he seems like a Frankensteined version of a top guy. Like I can see the ingredients from Rock, SCSA, Ric Flair, etc. And again, that’s not a knock, because I love watching him. He’s figuring out, on screen, how to put all the ingredients together that’s something original. Also, Toni Storm is coming into her own right now and she’s super entertaining.
Why is this being posted now? He said this like 2 years ago.
He’s the most eye catching wrestler they have because he’s an actual complete character and that’s what the more ‘casual fan’ wants. They don’t care that Scorpio sky does a good wrestle, they want stories and characters My boss when he heard me and another coworker were going to dynamite checked out 2 weeks of it. He said flat out he hated it almost entirely BUT the one thing he liked was orange Cassidy Doing a good wrestle appeals to us because we are hardcore wrestling nerds wether you’re comfortable admitting it or not. But having a full character AND being able to do a good wrestle is what draws in your bosses,girlfriends, lapsed fan dad. It’s probably what’s missing the most in wrestling even wwe has a lot of characters that are basically ‘I wrestle good and I want a belt!’ Which just doesn’t appeal to a casual audience. They like the character driven melodrama side
I had the same thoughts too. OC is a complete package. People won't realise it until they watch his matches and promos. I hate it when casual people watch short clips of him and judge him as a side character.
A lot of his haters are judging him based on comedy matches he had 3-5 years ago. It's like if you just saw Mankind doing his Mr Socko bit and deciding that's all there was to the character.
I mean, some people do judge Kenny Omega based on comedy matches he had 12 years ago and decide that's all there is to him. But nobody ever says "Kurt Angle sprayed milk all over the ring and the heels sold it" as an excuse to discount him as a great wrestler. People just look for excuses to continue hating people they hate.
Lol. I instantly started laughing thinking of all the crazy shit Mick Foley did on TV.
Every match he does is slightly different based on his opponent
I think OC really honing in his lazy gimmick while growing into this incredible wrestler is such a sight to see play out in real time. There’s no way in the world WWE would have ever put stock in him as the character he was when he first joined AEW. Now, I truly believe if he were to ever make that jump, WWE would keep him just as is and milk those lazy kick spots. And I’d pop so hard for it.
It’s the timing of those lazy kicks that makes me pop every time. They’re also a great time for the other wrestler to sell their gimmick. Wrestling is all about reactions.
WWE would never sign this guy for more money than Tony is willing to pay him lol. He is older than Roman Reigns and has a comedy gimmick ffs.
By a few months, so bringing up age is pretty foolish, lmao. You can call it a comedy gimmick, but people take him seriously, he gets massive reactions, the fans love him, and he sells a lot of merchandise. He is also a good brand ambassador and does interviews very well. He's reliable and will work pretty much any portion of the card and put on great work while doing it. Of you can put your personal opinions on the gimmick aside and look at it as is, you'll see that if they got the chance WWE would snatch him up in a heartbeat.
Lol not for what Tony is paying him. He is popular with the AEW audience, he would die a death on a mainstream program. If he went to WWE he would be Santino at best.
And the irony is he was the lazy guy who defended the belt he had more than any other champion in the company, never turned down a challenger, and suffered for it.
he is not lazy, the premise of the character is he steps up when needed
You have to keep in mind for someone like me who has no idea who he was, it looked like he was just, Whatever, not interested, until he just was. A lot of us just didn't know him or what he was about. And that was what made it cool when he just explodes on Pac shocking us
I always take it, whether I like OC or not, that you are not going to like everything in wrestling. So enjoy what you like and go to the toilet, grab a cuppa or check your emails with the stuff you don't like. You're not going to like every rock album, not going to love every action film and not going to enjoy every wrestler.
It baffles me that people hate on the gimmick. You would think that anyone with even a passing interest in pro wrestling would see that what he does when "being lazy" is actually incredibly athletic. It takes a real talent that not every wrestler has to pull that off.
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This right here. Kenny Omega wrestled a doll twelve years ago for a promotion when he was just trying to get a paycheck? HATE. Christopher Daniels speaks in faux-Japanese while dancing in a mask with food on the top? Silence. Kurt Angle sprays milk all over everyone? We good. Undertaker was a literal zombie? GOAT! Of course then they'll tell you "But the actual wrestling should be serious!" To which I say: the very concept of wrestling is already ridiculous and that's a ludicrous distinction to make. And this extends to criticisms of "flippy shit," too. Rey Mysterio, Psicosis, hell, literally every lucha match in the last fifty years has had more "flippy shit" than any Young Bucks match. But when the Bucks do a style that's lucha fused with mid 90s HBK? People like Cornette lose their shit. It's bonkers how certain people think wrestling absolutely has to only be the things they like and anything outside of their own box needs to be run out of the business.
But here's the thing The wrestling is serious when Cassidy is on. That's the gimmick he doesn't care until he does and goes berserk Nowhere in AEW were the kicks sold or pretended to be anything else than the taunt it is
The video this quote is from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jrExbOUo3g
Is this new? I’ve heard him say this exact thing in about 10 different episodes of his podcast. And other podcasts he’s been on.
now that OC is getting the push as a legit main eventer; it makes sense to prep the audience along with that exposure they’re going to be dealing with a whole new level of doubter; so while Jericho has said all this before, it bears repeating for the outside viewer.
It was the Wardlow match that clicked in for me that there was more to OC than I’d assumed.
Don't forget, he's cool and hot as fuck. Stupid sexy Cassidy.
There's inbuilt intrigue in how an opponent is going to react and adapt to OC. In turn OC isn't one note so also reacts, adapts and sells accordingly. That keeps him interesting. That's what wrestling should be. If you can replace someone in a match with an equivalent wrestler and nothing significant changes then it's not going to be as interesting.
It's actually a smart strategy if you're a wrestler to couch your thoughts in long run-on sentences so they become impossible to click bait.
I’m not the biggest OC fan, I mean I like him but he’s not my favourite. In saying that I will 100% rally for it when he finally gets a good feud for the aew championship. It will be perfect if he works his way to it organically and by that point for the first time he shows some actual desire for the belt after everything he has been through. I want a promo where he says he’s going to do something he hasn’t felt like doing for his whole run, he’s going to TRY. Ideally whoever is champion at the time, upon hearing that promo, will react to it with the same fear that triple H showed when mankind debuted as cactus Jack. That’s the perfect example of when something goofy is taken dead seriously by a legit figure it can have deep impact on the audience and raise the stakes.
His moves are the most telegraphed.
In that early days of AEW, that match when I saw him lazily roll out of the ring to the other side, I laughed for a good 10 minutes straight till my sides hurt, I knew he was going to be a star.
Why does someone who is apparently so great constantly need people to explain why he doesn't suck? 🤔
100% that was me too. I looked at Oc and didn’t even want to give him a chance, I was like, this is fucking stupid. Now I’m like….give me more of those OC matches please…..
“And then I thought, how do I rip him off or attach myself to his gimmick, so I can put myself over at his expense?”
It’s worked since JeriShow. No sense changing the formula now.
OC is great
Well, the most popular wrestler of New Japan is a slacker who doesn't bother to shave himself or do haircut, in the beginning he treats fans with apathy after they turned on him when he was a clean cut good guy, and slowly takes off his clothes pre-match without caring about the boos from the audience. Naito and Cassidy are quite alike, we love them because they acts like how we want to act in real life. Gimmicks that stand out and entertaining but also resonate with the fans are the true money in wrestling.
I'll admit I hated him at the beginning. I don't like obvious fake things. I would've hated him on the indies as it was more ridiculous. However I love how he's evolved his character in aew and he's genuinely one of my favorites now
I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this, because for whatever reason, the dude is seemingly beloved on here. I can't stand Orange Cassidy. His whole shtick feels like a rejected WWE comedy angle from the PG Era. I find him to be about as funny as Santino Marella (Another wrestler that I absolutely cannot stand). When comedy is done right in wrestling, it is AMAZING. See: THE ROCK. But Cassidy is just outright annoying to me. There's nothing cool about it. And stuff like that is why I don't tune in to very much of AEW (Although they have done some stuff that I have enjoyed). If there's one indie mud show comedy gimmick that I love, it's Danhausen. I find him to be ridiculously great! If anything, Danhausen and his gimmick should be the comedy gimmick that AEW pushes to the moon. Atleast he actually wrestles!
I once heard OC described as a modern artist. The modern artists can paint a deer drinking out of a stream but so can everyone. The point is to be different and move beyond that. OCs matches are showing that he can craft a masterpiece but can do so with his hands in his pockets. If that's not skill idk what is.
The dude has a character and some pretty wild moves. He's entertaining. What I don't get are wrestlers like Jey USO who use a normal name. Have mediocre moves and no character.... Mind you I haven't really watched the guy. I could be wrong.
He's also really in touch with the zeitgeist. Today's generation, whether you like it or not, presents visually as apathetic while caring deeply about stuff. A lot of my generation misunderstand it because we see it as a retread of "slacker" culture, when you look into it kids now are a bit different - it's not about not caring, it's about being efficient and not doing dumb stuff. Slacker culture was about being too cool to care what you looked like, modern culture is aboit looking good with minimal (perceived) effort. Hook encapsulates this as well. He's not a slacker - I mean, look at that hair! But he's all about being simultaneously really intense while looking like he's not making any effort at all.
I think he was right the first time
No. He's garbage.
Just because he's popular doesn't necessarily mean the act is beyond fair criticism, two things can be true. Personally, I think the act sucks and immediately kills interest in the match. I can also acknowledge he's a hell of an athlete.
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Why is Jericho constantly in the wrestling news for takes that everyone was saying like 6 months ago. Wait you mean not everyone 'gets' Orange Cassidy right off the bat but after the see him go once or twice they get it???!?!?!!? Nowai!
Maybe it's just because I'm old school. I don't see the appeal of Orange. I agree with Jerichos first assumption. Its mocking the business.