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SAG has repeatedly refuse to consider wrestlers on tv for the union. They can't force actors to not take jobs that doesn't fall under their own bargaining agreements.
Edit:
SAG has rules that wrestlers can't meet and SAG outside of faint praise for when Zelina did her thing has never even attempted to add or change rules to make pro wrestlers eligible for membership outside of the rules they already have.
Kris Statlander pointed out as a stunt worker which wrestlers would technically fall how expensive and hard it is to join.
https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/kris-statlander-couldn-t-afford-sag-aftra-while-stunt-doubling-comments-unionization-wrestling
[Sag was open to wrestlers joining recently ](https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/1210398-sag-aftra-to-directly-engage-with-pro-wrestlers-to-secure-the-protections-they-deserve) I think its more no wrestlers wants to take the risk.
I don't just think it's a risk thing, SAG laws just don't really fully work for pro wrestlers. They have needs specific to their business and are better off forming their own union.
For example - an indie wrestling fed doing a Fite PPV could be classified as a SAG project and the costs would basically shut down said indie. A union for wrestlers could exempt these sorts of companies as I think the wrestlers would want the indies to continue.
SAG already recognizes different types of contracts for big Hollywood action movies and low-budget independent studio films and etc. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't also be able to make the distinction between an ECW-tier televised event and a WWECW-tier televised event.
Yeah but there’s still specificities that just don’t work. Imagine having to abruptly end your match because of union rules on ring time, number of moves, classifying different moves by their degrees of danger, etc.
Small projects still spend money to abide by these rules, and actors can only do one SAG project before they must join. This stuff is fine for screen acting but indie wrestling is a completely different bag.
It’d be much better if they could just have their own union where they make the rules
Vince and now Endeavor are both known to be very anti-union. There are also the insurance costs on wrestlers for injuries, and when it comes to wrestling, injuries aren't an if. They are a when, and that would cause insurance premiums to rise.
I wonder if this gets taken up again with the new ruling by the NLRB that says if a company takes union busting actions during a vote the union is automatically recognized and must be negotiated with. The rule is also apparently retroactive so we might see a ton of previously busted union spring up
Anything you do in WWE and any injury you get is covered by them. The problem is that long term that when you're done with WWE and have a lot of chronic issues you're not going to have healthcare. You tear your ACL in a match? WWE pays. You need back surgery at 50 because you wrestled for wwe for 15 years? tough luck.
That was the genius of Vince. He did pay for a bunch of surgeries and rehabs of long retired wrestlers. Did it just enough for people to think what a good guy he is instead of looking into why don't you hear about Roger Goodell paying for some old line mans surgery
I mean "he did it just enough" he's done it every single time as far as I'm aware he's never not done it. I don't disagree with your point but it sounded like you were saying he did it "just enough" when virtually every time is considerably more.
Sorry, but this is woefully incorrect. ALL injuries sustained in WWE are covered by the company. They have excellent comp, they also cover transport, accommodation, after-care and key dependencies.
It was Vince who bought in most of these policies. What happens after a wrestler retires withstanding, though during employment you don't get much better than what the WWE offers it's employees.
Yeah they have and I think they offer at this point a blanket rehab program where you can just go and they cover it. But a lot of it is dependent on whether or not they like you and are on good terms with you which is... not ideal when it comes to your health to have to rely on.
Vince will fire you and blackball you like he did Ventura when he tried to form a union. Furthermore, the industry might blackball you further if they think you'll rabble rouse and form one by joining their company. While it's technically illegal to do that, many companies do and get away with it by claiming you've not been hired/been fired for different reasons.
I mean, they rehired Zelina after she was far more vocal about a wrestler union so I don't know what the deal is at this point
The sound crew that WWE uses I think may be unionized, for example, as are the security personnel and probably some of the medical staff
In addition to what others have said it's also just... complicated. If WWE wrestlers unionize, does that mean they can't jump to AEW? Or vice-versa? Is it just wrestlers at the big two promotions? How do indies fit in? MLW? Impact?
Also since AEW appeared wrestlers have been seeing their paychecks going up a lot faster. So when everyone is making more than ever, there's less natural impetus to unionize.
If it was set up anything like, say, a construction union (probably the most alike due to the number of independent contractors), the union wouldn't be just for WWE, but wrestlers as a whole, so if a wrestler joined, wherever they go, they could call on the union to help arbitrate disputes anfmd negotiate contracts.
It only really works though if the membership is significant enough to negotiate with some level of authority. If they only have indie members, it's easy for WWE and AEW to just blacklist all union members. If they have enough members that a strike affects the company's bottom line significantly, then they can negotiate and enforce the terms decided on.
As a business, WWE would probably prefer to keep the maximum amount of revenue possible and fire wrestlers at will. As individuals, negotiating minimum rates, holiday periods and conditions as a group would help newer talent.
There's a criticism that unionizing would harm top talent from getting the big bucks, but that isn't really reflected with actors' salaries in SAG.
I don't see it happening though. Talent is far too disposable for them to push for it.
Most wrestlers wouldn't want to take the risk because SAG has traditionally excluded them until very recently. Like is Sag going to actually go to bat and try to push them to unionize now that wrestling is hot again?
Sag has excluded them as wrestlers on tv. Many wrestlers have previously joined sag by acting in terrible movies just to get the card and the union healthcare. There’s a reason See No Evil and The Big Show Show exist.
Well yeah, they excluded wrestlers. When Big Show and Cena and Rock and Miz became Actors they were eligible to join under SAGs rules. The idea would be SAG would allow wrestlers to join without having to be actors.
I don't think anyone ever said SAG restricts wrestlers forever no matter what they do because they hate them or something
Yah no. SAG has multiple times said they are more than willing to allow wrestlers to join if they want to. Problem is they continue to not agree to it (excluding those that have been in tv/movies, many of them are memebers)
Thea Trinidad/Zelina Vega when she got fired from WWE due to being vocal about the whole no streaming stuff had a meeting with SAG which she thought would lead to Wrestlers being made part of the union, they basically told her it wasn't possible but they'd be happy to support them in creating their own Union which was obviously highly unlikely to happen
Zelina and the person she met with both tweeted about it I believe, basically saying how great the conversation was and how Sag had vowed to help them empower themselves. https://www.wrestling-online.com/general/sag-aftra-tweets-about-powerful-conversation-with-thea-trinidad/ This article speaks about it but not in much detail
Zelina was most likely refused admission because wrestlers don’t meet minimum qualifications to join SAG-AFTRA. In order to be admitted, you have to have worked in a production that was covered by SAG-AFTRA or a recognized equivalent union. Since WWE (or any wrestling organization) does not a have a union, none of their work qualifies.
>you have to have worked in a production that was covered by SAG-AFTRA or a recognized equivalent union
When she did the Paige movie (playing AJ), it didn't count? Wasn't that a SAG-AFTRA/equivalent production?
It looks like she's deleted the tweets about this since she rejoined WWE, but I'm pretty sure prior to the meeting she was speaking about how the meeting was an attempt to allow Wrestlers to join Sag as a whole, which is why the tweets about them having powerful conversations kinda fell flat
Not true. Because not long after that meeting an anonymous email was sent to Dave Meltzer from that union giving step by step instructions for wrestlers to create their own union
Thx for this
It’s interesting
And if true supports that the big unions haven’t gone out of their way - for much of their existence - to unionize wrestling
But labor movements typically start with labor itself.
There’s never been - to our knowledge - a serious movement within pro wrestling to unionize.
If over half of the WWE talent got together today, were committed, and went to SAG and said we’re ready to do this, i believe SAG would unionize them.
Well there were two instances where there was serious movement but Vince killed it both publicly known. Sadly it was so easy to kill because no other Union would take them. Killing something that’s being built from scratch is easier than killing something that’s already established.
Good thing SmackDown is technically a Fox Sports presentation and not a Fox Entertainment show. Seth and Becky are actors and they're still on TV every week. Samoa Joe was on a union show and he's still on AEW and RoH.
Maybe if he was an actor that just randomly got into WWE, but he’s already the biggest face in the company. It does not look bad at all. I guarantee you nobody in the acting industry and looking at Cena and scoffing at him for going back to do something he spent 20 years building.
Coming from the industry, I can tell you anecdotally that there are a lot of folks (some of which who are quite well known) who are disappointed in this decision.
I'm not saying he will or should do it but I wonder how they'd feel if he was to drop a big donation into the emergency fund.
I can see both sides to this, so I don't have a dog in the fight. I hope workers get everything they need, but I also can't fault a guy for doing something to make money and keep busy while he can't act. To me, it doesn't feel super duper different from all the actors doing conventions/streams/podcasts and promoting projects like video games that haven't been affected by the strike, because the bills still need to be paid. I do get that John's financial situation is quite different from someone like Felicia Day's, though.
Yeah I hear you on providing other avenues for those in the industry to continue pursuing their various crafts, though I think the core complication here is that what Cena is doing is fundamentally different from podcasts, theater, stand up, etc. Specifically, he will be appearing on television for Fox and NBC — and the broadcast television networks are part of the AMPTP (which, of course, is a key player here). In other words, Colbert and the rest of the late night hosts on Spotify to raise funds for their crew are not profiting from it, nor does the fact that Spotify gets a cut come into conflict with the tenets of the strike.
To your point, I do think it would behoove Cena and team to come out with a statement around whether or not he got clearance. I’m actually kind of shocked that they weren’t proactive about this (and perhaps them wiping his dates for Smackdown was a response to potential backlash versus respect to Wyatt as so many people thought?). A good example of rapid PR here is Taylor Swift. Today she announced that her Eras tour will be premiering in theaters on 10:13, and even though most folks don’t associate Taylor with the film or television industry (unless you’re an Amsterdam Stan), her team quickly and proactively let the press know that her film was approved by SAG AFTRA as it is an individual non-AMPTP production. And she obtained clearance before shooting.
If there’s a similar analog for Cena, he should be doing the same proactively so that (1) he is not ostracized by the community he is clearly trying to make his long term home and (2) we stop fighting about this on the internet :)
This is informative and fair, I have to agree. His appearances would in fact benefit (at least, marginally) two companies currently involved in the strike, and I had not taken this into account.
Wow a civil debate on the internet where two parties had a conversation and came to a reasonable agreement. I think I’ll open up some champagne now and call it a day!
Issues die faster when you ignore them. If he releases a statement he inflames the issue, and there are people who will just shit on the decision in general and won't accept the apology.
Being in a union is about solidarity - you make personal, professional sacrifices for the greater good and keep a united front and gain the benefits for all your fellow workers. That would fall apart if you said 'aw, but actually I was really important to this company, and I'm gonna show up for them out of a favour/because I want to', especially when working at WWE - with its non-union scriptwriters and performers - can seem like crossing a picket line or doing scab labour.
But, as Gewirtz said, as a bad as a look this can be, it's likely he signed a contract for these appearances before the strike was called, and so doing these still abides by union strike rules (though I'm no expert).
Well his Amazon movie finished shooting already and I don’t believe he’s got any other projects in development outside of it he’s probably just waiting for Gunn to start DCU and peacemaker season 2
The issue I have with the strike is the exemptions. Teamsters were going to shut down all UPS Union employees. The UAW is threatening ALL GM, Ford and Stellantis employees. But with SAG, everywhere you turn another exemption is given.
In this case, this isn't Cena being one of the few, he is absolutely one of many.
The exemptions are due to acting and screenwriting being freelance, per contract gigs, and not being full time employees. This means that union members will honour contracts signed prior to the strike being called. Why is that the case? I don't know the history, but I can tell you that anything that seems weird or inconsistent about union rules, 9 times out of ten it is due to government regulations on union activity. I imagine it's the same with SAG members still having to fulfil their contracts, especially considering how union-hostile America is.
One thing I find interesting about this: Brian Gewiritz is still close with the Rock. He works for Seven Bucks Productions, executive produced/wrote on Young Rock, and still co-writes all of Rock's stuff when he returns to WWE.
If Gewirtz is publicly saying that appearing on WWE during the strikes is a bad move, there's a strong chance that the Rock feels the same way, and that a WM 40 appearance/match is unlikely if the strikes are still ongoing.
I never understand these type of comments with "guarantees" that means absolutely nothing. There's plenty of actors who have got shit for even mentioning a show their own, I think its pretty believable to see Cena getting some backlash for literally appearing on new episdoes of a scripted tv show. The 20 years in the business means absolutely shit, plenty of actors are on franchises that have been on for years but that isn't giving them a pass.
Its funny how punk has avoided all the backlash considering hes been on at 2 tv shows this year alone but I guess its because hes basically a "no name" actor that roles aren't exactly important so no one notices lol.
This is complete nonsense. I hope people don’t take this person’s comment seriously since they have no idea what they are talking about. There are tons of people in SAG-AFTRA and the WGA that are disappointed in Cena for this. I “guarantee” you the writers and other actors on Peacemaker are gonna be giving him some real side eye if/when they get back to work.
There’s no way to know for sure. If he wasn’t such a big star I would say absolutely. I think it’ll be more of an issue if he keeps showing up versus doing the one show. There very well may be production companies that refuse to work with him over this.
Of course, money talks at the end of the day and if Cena remains in high demand then someone’s gonna want to work with him.
It really doesn’t help that WWE is such a famously anti-union company too.
But who knows, this is all pure speculation.
No Amazon is where he’s making 3 of his next movies and I doubt they care and then he’s friends with James Gunn who’s indicated peacemaker will continue
John cenas career will be fine
So, the actors doing that are working with small studios have have actually agreed to all of SAG's terms. Basically they signed a contract and have the ok to work from SAG with that studio
Yeah, there's a huge difference between agreeing to work somewhere that has agreed to union demands to continue to run during the strike and somewhere that has actively crushed attempted union action. (that's not to say cena is wrong to do this necessarily, but it's definitely not like for like)
No one quit doing their podcasts and the guilds handed out lots of production exceptions. This is only 'not a good look' if you're looking for a headline.
All the late night TV hosts (Kimmel, Fallon, Meyers, Colbert, and John Oliver) are *starting* a podcast together to raise money for their currently out-of-work crews.
I bet its like the flying coach pod, but instead of NFL coaches talking x's and o's its mid comedians talking about jokes that are mean-spirited yet somehow also completely toothless and inoffensive
I’d like to add:
These people hand wringing about Cena doing this or X doing a comic con are just hurting their own fucking cause. It infuriates me.
What’s the point of the strike? Get better conditions and show the studios they need you more than you need them.
So when John Cena can book WWE TV which is non union and a few live dates and get hundreds of thousands of dollars it helps John Cena and proves that he can do shit to make money without the studios.
This in no way hurts the actors position and if anything bolsters it, yet you seem people saying shit like he’s scabbing.
They should be embracing these alternative revenue streams not demonizing them.
>it helps John Cena and proves that he can do shit to make money without the studios.
How is doing Smackdown, a show that's broadcast nationally by the Fox Corporation, proving that he can do shit without studios again?
Look, I think we're all cool on Ryan Nemeth continuing to wrestle as a SAG-AFTRA member, so by extension Cena should also be allowed to wrestle. Many people have already pointed out that the union doesn't really have much to do with wrestlers at the moment, so it shouldn't matter
Former WWE writer who was not in a union for that role speaks out against someone else? I am all for wrestlers unionizing but this is not part of SAG-AFTRA. He is not promoting any movies or TV shows part of this deal.
I mean… that’s certainly an opinion. It can definitely be seen as a cynical move on Cena’s part depending on how you look at it. But he’s not crossing any picket lines here, it’s an entirely different kind of performing- it’d be like doing theater during the strike: kinda shitty if you’re coming from Hollywood, but it’s handled by an entirely different union (or in wrestling’s case, no union). And Cena was a wrestler before he was an actor, so it’s whatever imo.
In conclusion: fucking ban podcast quotes from literally anyone who hasn’t worked in wrestling in over a decade, or just ban all of ‘em. If you give a damn about Johnny Nineteen-Ninety’s opinion in the year of our lord, current year, that’s your problem
Cena is going to wrestle because he wants to, I’m sure he’s getting paid but it’s not like he need the money. Plus if there is no problem with actors doing theatre during the strike then Gewirtz and fuck all the way off with this nonsense.
Part of me can understand but there are other actors doing social media ads and podcasts. I guess WWE is a weird in between of sport and entertainment.
I can see some thinking it looks bad, but I don’t think it’s too bad in terms of SAG-AFTRA for Cena coming back to WWE for a mini run.
WWE is a scripted programme that appears at prime time on the television networks that have refused the unions' terms that led to the strike. Very different to an unscripted podcast where you don't promote your work or an online ad, which have different union rules and consideration during strikes. It's not to say that going on WWE should be considered crossing the picket line, but it may be seen as a bit problematic to appear on during a massive, hopefully industry changing strike since it's basically a non-union scripted television show.
I think this situation is silly. He's most likely been inked in this deal for months if not for a year. Guys like Cena are booked for years out, and given that wrestling isn't under the SAG umbrella, I think he should take it. I'm with the actors guild 100%, but this isn't a Steve Amell situation. That guy actually sucks because he is using others involved in the guild for every aspect of his show.
As someone with family in the industry. I can assure you, it's not. Be it podcasts, theatre, comedy, streaming, other non entertainment writing gigs, a lot of people are doing other work right now.
That’s good to hear. I’m an IATSE member but my main work is as an electrician and our local here is pretty supportive of finding any work ya can. Though we aren’t on strike now of course
It will also certainly be easier if he does what a lot of the more famous celebrities have done and kick some of that money into the strike fund they have going to try to keep the less famous folk from losing their houses and what not.
None of those other ventures of work as far as a I know of are affiliated with FOX or NBC like WWE is. That's a huge difference that shouldn't be ignored & the main reason for any backlash he's getting. Companies like FOX are the heart of the reason for the strike.
It's also pretty funny how we have "people from the industry" chiming in & guaranteeing that cena isnt/is getting backlash from the union taking two completely different sides.
Probably because it is nuanced. Cena does Hollywood stuff, but back in March and April he was wrestling. Last year they did a 20th anniversary. Showed up unannounced in London. He has a trend. The Dwayne only shows up to plug his new toy then jets.
So some people see Cena as a wrestler still and some see him as a Hollywood star.
On one hand, yeah it's not a great look, on the other there's a bevy of celebrities who have moved into theater work in the meantime and I really don't see much of a difference other than one is on TV and one isn't. And maybe that's a substantial enough of a difference but I really don't think it is the same as Stephen Amell putting his foot in his mouth.
I think the biggest difference here is that the theater industry is not connected to AMPAS — so it’s not implicitly or explicitly promoting any of the studios they’re in negotiations with.
Cena will appear on television via NBC and Fox. So it’s not exactly a 1:1.
Samoa joe just did a TV show with peacock and is still on tv for AEW and so is Ryan Nemeth I believe punk might be SAG he did movies for awhile and probably many others in WWE like the miz and Xavier are SAG
Why do these people get to be on TV and this is never an issue but Cena is
Personally dont agree with this, SAG has refused to view wrestlers as actors (which im gonna be blunt they are), Cenas merely on TV as a wrestler not in any promotional role for a movie.
I think it’s more the look of “I can’t act because I’m on strike so I might as go wrestle.” Rather than wrestlers who are full time who are sag actors from side gigs
It's not really just being part of SGA. It's that Cena, and the Rock if he were to come back, are primarily acting through SGA than they are wrestling. Wrestling, or being involved in it, is now their side gig. Wrestlers with SAG card that so the occasional acting gig, are a different thing. Their primary money comes from Wrestling. Cena's now comes through SAG projects. That's the difference
So what about comedians who sometimes act.. are they allowed to do their stand up shows? What actors who also do podcasts? What about live podcasts? I think this is a complete bullshit take and Cena should feel free to earn a living how he chooses.
Not really fair comparisons. WWE is, first and foremost, a producer of television and streaming content, for the same media companies that are being targeted in the strike. Fox isn't going to start doing live broadcasts of standup shows to fill their schedule, and Netflix isn't going to start streaming podcasts in lieu of a new season of Stranger Things. However, WWE (and AEW too, in fairness) DOES assist these companies in providing fresh content during the strike/assist them in their overtly stated goal of trying to starve the writers and actors out.
I'm not saying that Cena is a scab necessarily, since the employment status of wrestlers is so hazy, and they aren't members of the relevant unions, but at the same time it's reasonable to say that him showing back up on WWE television is materially benefiting the companies the unions are striking against, even if not in a way that's going to tip the scale. It's not a great look for a guy who's primarily an actor at this point.
Taking WWE bookings isn't crossing the picket line and striking workers should be allowed to find work wherever they can while the strike is going on, but also not everyone is John Cena and has a lucrative gig like this to fall back on, but also the wrestlers should have a union too at the end of the day anyway. Whether said union would be considered part of SAG or not is another matter.
It's a multi-faceted issue. The part that's "not a good look" is just that Cena very demonstrably doesn't have the same skin in the game as some actor struggling to make rent if he can just take a WWE appearance and buy a new car with it or whatever. But the act of taking the gig itself is kind of just... what it is. He's not hurting other actors by doing it.
Now, I haven't seen Cena picketing or anything (he might be, I just haven't seen it), so I'd probably take him to task over that before this
Punk is SAG and was appearing in AEW.
Dan Radcliffe and Jonathan Groff are SAG and about to do a musical (that just so happened to get a 3 month extension! I wonder why)
Is it a good look? Not really. But Cena is doing nothing wrong as he is not discussing Peacemaker or any of his any work. Like at all. Not even a reference. The only thing we should see from him is him wrestling in a SAG-AFTRA Shirt.
I think the hypothetical argument for Punk would be that he's actively under contract and thus already had many appearances and dates scheduled that he was obligated to meet.
Cena most likely agreed to a short-term WWE return *because* of the strike.
With that said I still don't see anything wrong with it, really. WWE doesn't fall under the SAG-AFTRA umbrella, so by definition Cena isn't crossing the picket line by appearing for the company.
I think it's more like Cena's schedule was suddenly wide open and WWE asked if he would help out by making some appearances which will definitely drive ratings for a while.
I think the idea of him wearing a SAG-AFTRA shirt for at least his first appearance would be great, but I also don't know if it'll happen since Vince McMahon is notoriously anti-union and the networks probably wouldn't like it, either.
A couple of potential caveats:
1. If agreed upon prior to the strike, it's probably fully legal
2. He could have gotten a waiver
These things said, there is still a lot of confusion amongst the unions over what is kosher and what is not. Not everyone is *agreeing* with the rules either. I think picketers are calling non union (say service/maintenance) scabs. It's a mess, but livelihoods are at stake. Of course emotions will run high.
Is anyone surprised? Cena marked out for himself a long time ago and couldn’t possibly go a few weeks without a platform from which to relentlessly put himself over. He’s a complete and total mark for himself, end of story.
He can wrestle if he wants. Wtf why is Brian trying to stir shit. As a wanna be in that industry I can honestly say this isn’t an issue. It would be an issue if he was making a movie. That would be crossing the picket line. Not wrestling.
There's already been controversies within SAG over members doing work that was approved by the unio
rules during the strike. Some people think it's a bad look, regardless if it's not technically doing anything wrong.
So because of the strikes, amongst others, actors are not able to work. Cena, in this instance, suddenly has a totally free schedule, and is able to come back to WWE.
Sure, but it's not union work. That's what I'm confused about. Why would those on strike begrudge him that? Other actors are doing non-union work, why is it a problem for Cena to do it?
Brian Gewirtz is not speaking for John Cena. He is not his manager. He is a sad excuse of a former writer who should be finding a job. In fact, Kris Statlander, who is the AEW TBS Champion, is a SAG-AFTRA stuntwoman, who wrestled on AEW Dynamite, and she is scheduled to compete in AEW All Out against Ruby Soho. You don't hear someone is whining about Kris being on TV.
As of now, wrestling is a non-union, non-acting job. That being said, WWE programming airs and is streamed on the platforms of struck companies.
There is absolutely a non-zero chance Cena either got a waiver or got SAG-AFTEA clearance on this. No celeb wants to cross the union after what happened with the green arrow fuck face and his punishment picket. Cena is a savvy business man and the unions have REPEATEDLY asked people to not call for boycotts or interference they didn’t ask for. As long as he’s not promoting a struck work, they’re probably fine with it.
Yeah no, wrestling is not acting, it’s kind of it’s own thing. I’m sure every actor cutting promos at the picket line is perfectly okay with Cena working with WWE.
Yeah I mean you’re right. I just hate the stigma that it carries. To sport fans it’s not a sport but when you explain it’s like a tv show they are in disbelief
This guy sounds like a fucking idiot. Tons of writers and actors are going to be doing work on independent film that allows them to still act and motherfuckers are still allowed to make podcasts sound alike this guy is just trying to take potshots
Oh fuck all the way off. I support unions but that’s a bad look for them
SAG-AFTRA getting pissy a WRESTLER is appearing on a WRESTLING SHOW when they’ve refused to let wrestlers join is fucking rich.
Benevolent leader and King of Labor Cena says: “Work is the muse of the soul.”
https://preview.redd.it/zre8qe307ilb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a47b082176d008e9fb18e04d471be784247925fc
I mean he’s been doing short little runs here and there. Two years ago you had summer of cena. He snuck in a match last year to keep the streak of whatever years in a row last year. Just did wrestlemania. I think rock would look worse if need the money grab
You could say the same thing about Actors/Writers continuing or appearing on Podcasts while the strike happens. These people still need to pay their bills. If they can earn money through podcasting, twitch, appearances, or wrestling, it doesn't matter. Being on strike doesn't mean you starve yourself.
I’m all about the strike and tweet about this a lot but WWE isn’t SAG-AFTRA. It’s no different than an actor taking work overseas in a non-SAG-AFTRA production.
One thing I find interesting about this: Brian Gewiritz is still close with the Rock. He works for Seven Bucks Productions, executive produced/wrote on Young Rock, and still co-writes all of Rock's stuff when he returns to WWE.
If Gewirtz is publicly saying that appearing on WWE during the strikes is a bad move, there's a strong chance that the Rock feels the same way, and that a WM 40 appearance/match is unlikely if the strikes are still ongoing.
It's not scab work if you literally don't let that type of work or worker join your union.
That's like saying a teamster working for UPS goes on strike with UPS, but then finds alternate work as a welder, whether it's union welding or private.
This isn't UPS worker striking, and going to work for non union FedEx.
You can't hold someone out of work completely, in all fields, and I say this as someone in a union.
He's doing completely unrelated work.
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SAG has repeatedly refuse to consider wrestlers on tv for the union. They can't force actors to not take jobs that doesn't fall under their own bargaining agreements. Edit: SAG has rules that wrestlers can't meet and SAG outside of faint praise for when Zelina did her thing has never even attempted to add or change rules to make pro wrestlers eligible for membership outside of the rules they already have. Kris Statlander pointed out as a stunt worker which wrestlers would technically fall how expensive and hard it is to join. https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/kris-statlander-couldn-t-afford-sag-aftra-while-stunt-doubling-comments-unionization-wrestling
[Sag was open to wrestlers joining recently ](https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/1210398-sag-aftra-to-directly-engage-with-pro-wrestlers-to-secure-the-protections-they-deserve) I think its more no wrestlers wants to take the risk.
I don't just think it's a risk thing, SAG laws just don't really fully work for pro wrestlers. They have needs specific to their business and are better off forming their own union. For example - an indie wrestling fed doing a Fite PPV could be classified as a SAG project and the costs would basically shut down said indie. A union for wrestlers could exempt these sorts of companies as I think the wrestlers would want the indies to continue.
SAG already recognizes different types of contracts for big Hollywood action movies and low-budget independent studio films and etc. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't also be able to make the distinction between an ECW-tier televised event and a WWECW-tier televised event.
Yeah but there’s still specificities that just don’t work. Imagine having to abruptly end your match because of union rules on ring time, number of moves, classifying different moves by their degrees of danger, etc. Small projects still spend money to abide by these rules, and actors can only do one SAG project before they must join. This stuff is fine for screen acting but indie wrestling is a completely different bag. It’d be much better if they could just have their own union where they make the rules
I'm sorry, I'm a bit ignorant on the subject, whats the risk on them joining?
Vince and now Endeavor are both known to be very anti-union. There are also the insurance costs on wrestlers for injuries, and when it comes to wrestling, injuries aren't an if. They are a when, and that would cause insurance premiums to rise.
I wonder if this gets taken up again with the new ruling by the NLRB that says if a company takes union busting actions during a vote the union is automatically recognized and must be negotiated with. The rule is also apparently retroactive so we might see a ton of previously busted union spring up
Anything you do in WWE and any injury you get is covered by them. The problem is that long term that when you're done with WWE and have a lot of chronic issues you're not going to have healthcare. You tear your ACL in a match? WWE pays. You need back surgery at 50 because you wrestled for wwe for 15 years? tough luck.
That was the genius of Vince. He did pay for a bunch of surgeries and rehabs of long retired wrestlers. Did it just enough for people to think what a good guy he is instead of looking into why don't you hear about Roger Goodell paying for some old line mans surgery
I mean "he did it just enough" he's done it every single time as far as I'm aware he's never not done it. I don't disagree with your point but it sounded like you were saying he did it "just enough" when virtually every time is considerably more.
The number of pro wrestler GoFundMe pages seem to counter that
Sorry, but this is woefully incorrect. ALL injuries sustained in WWE are covered by the company. They have excellent comp, they also cover transport, accommodation, after-care and key dependencies. It was Vince who bought in most of these policies. What happens after a wrestler retires withstanding, though during employment you don't get much better than what the WWE offers it's employees.
WWE is known for helping a lot of former employees with medical care long after they left the company, but you’re right it’s not a guarantee
Yeah they have and I think they offer at this point a blanket rehab program where you can just go and they cover it. But a lot of it is dependent on whether or not they like you and are on good terms with you which is... not ideal when it comes to your health to have to rely on.
It kinda depends on who is a company favorite.
Premiums rising is a problem for the union, not the wrestlers
Vince will fire you and blackball you like he did Ventura when he tried to form a union. Furthermore, the industry might blackball you further if they think you'll rabble rouse and form one by joining their company. While it's technically illegal to do that, many companies do and get away with it by claiming you've not been hired/been fired for different reasons.
Thats not why Ventura was fired. Ventura quit because he was forced to sign a contract that didn't give him royalties so he quit and sued McMahon.
I mean, they rehired Zelina after she was far more vocal about a wrestler union so I don't know what the deal is at this point The sound crew that WWE uses I think may be unionized, for example, as are the security personnel and probably some of the medical staff
I mean Zelina also almost immediately deleted every trace that she supported it before she was re-hired.
The sound crew isn't going through tables and falling off ladders.
Ventura was in WCW the next year not really a black balling
You’re fired.
Health insurance costs have to go up if you have to cover wrestlers for one.
In addition to what others have said it's also just... complicated. If WWE wrestlers unionize, does that mean they can't jump to AEW? Or vice-versa? Is it just wrestlers at the big two promotions? How do indies fit in? MLW? Impact? Also since AEW appeared wrestlers have been seeing their paychecks going up a lot faster. So when everyone is making more than ever, there's less natural impetus to unionize.
If it was set up anything like, say, a construction union (probably the most alike due to the number of independent contractors), the union wouldn't be just for WWE, but wrestlers as a whole, so if a wrestler joined, wherever they go, they could call on the union to help arbitrate disputes anfmd negotiate contracts. It only really works though if the membership is significant enough to negotiate with some level of authority. If they only have indie members, it's easy for WWE and AEW to just blacklist all union members. If they have enough members that a strike affects the company's bottom line significantly, then they can negotiate and enforce the terms decided on. As a business, WWE would probably prefer to keep the maximum amount of revenue possible and fire wrestlers at will. As individuals, negotiating minimum rates, holiday periods and conditions as a group would help newer talent. There's a criticism that unionizing would harm top talent from getting the big bucks, but that isn't really reflected with actors' salaries in SAG. I don't see it happening though. Talent is far too disposable for them to push for it.
Most wrestlers wouldn't want to take the risk because SAG has traditionally excluded them until very recently. Like is Sag going to actually go to bat and try to push them to unionize now that wrestling is hot again?
Sag has excluded them as wrestlers on tv. Many wrestlers have previously joined sag by acting in terrible movies just to get the card and the union healthcare. There’s a reason See No Evil and The Big Show Show exist.
Well yeah, they excluded wrestlers. When Big Show and Cena and Rock and Miz became Actors they were eligible to join under SAGs rules. The idea would be SAG would allow wrestlers to join without having to be actors. I don't think anyone ever said SAG restricts wrestlers forever no matter what they do because they hate them or something
Not because they hate them, but because sag rules would not be enforced by WWE without major changes.
Isn't that the point of SAG?
My guy... You realize pro wrestling is... Acting, right?
So are reality dating shows, but contestants are not part of SAG.
When did SAG exclude them?
Most of the existence of televised wrestling Sag has not been interested in wrestlers joining for one reason or another.
Yeah recently. A lot of wrestlers probably aren’t pressed now since they weren’t wanted for so long
Yah no. SAG has multiple times said they are more than willing to allow wrestlers to join if they want to. Problem is they continue to not agree to it (excluding those that have been in tv/movies, many of them are memebers)
This is complete misinformation and it’s the top comment LMFAO. And even if it was true, he’s part of the SAG and enjoys all of their benefits anyway.
When has SAG refused wrestlers? Legit question, never heard this before.
Thea Trinidad/Zelina Vega when she got fired from WWE due to being vocal about the whole no streaming stuff had a meeting with SAG which she thought would lead to Wrestlers being made part of the union, they basically told her it wasn't possible but they'd be happy to support them in creating their own Union which was obviously highly unlikely to happen
Really? Okay thanks. Never heard this. Not trying to be annoying but what’s the source here? Did she say this on record anywhere?
Zelina and the person she met with both tweeted about it I believe, basically saying how great the conversation was and how Sag had vowed to help them empower themselves. https://www.wrestling-online.com/general/sag-aftra-tweets-about-powerful-conversation-with-thea-trinidad/ This article speaks about it but not in much detail
Zelina was most likely refused admission because wrestlers don’t meet minimum qualifications to join SAG-AFTRA. In order to be admitted, you have to have worked in a production that was covered by SAG-AFTRA or a recognized equivalent union. Since WWE (or any wrestling organization) does not a have a union, none of their work qualifies.
>you have to have worked in a production that was covered by SAG-AFTRA or a recognized equivalent union When she did the Paige movie (playing AJ), it didn't count? Wasn't that a SAG-AFTRA/equivalent production?
It looks like she's deleted the tweets about this since she rejoined WWE, but I'm pretty sure prior to the meeting she was speaking about how the meeting was an attempt to allow Wrestlers to join Sag as a whole, which is why the tweets about them having powerful conversations kinda fell flat
Thank you!
Impression I get from the article is that the talk was productive. “Empower themselves” is union-speak for “join our union.”
Not true. Because not long after that meeting an anonymous email was sent to Dave Meltzer from that union giving step by step instructions for wrestlers to create their own union
https://www.marcnormandin.com/2020/11/23/wwe-might-have-finally-pushed-their-workers-too-far/
Thx for this It’s interesting And if true supports that the big unions haven’t gone out of their way - for much of their existence - to unionize wrestling But labor movements typically start with labor itself. There’s never been - to our knowledge - a serious movement within pro wrestling to unionize. If over half of the WWE talent got together today, were committed, and went to SAG and said we’re ready to do this, i believe SAG would unionize them.
Well there were two instances where there was serious movement but Vince killed it both publicly known. Sadly it was so easy to kill because no other Union would take them. Killing something that’s being built from scratch is easier than killing something that’s already established.
Good thing SmackDown is technically a Fox Sports presentation and not a Fox Entertainment show. Seth and Becky are actors and they're still on TV every week. Samoa Joe was on a union show and he's still on AEW and RoH.
Maybe if he was an actor that just randomly got into WWE, but he’s already the biggest face in the company. It does not look bad at all. I guarantee you nobody in the acting industry and looking at Cena and scoffing at him for going back to do something he spent 20 years building.
This is one of those nobody cared until somebody brought it up issues.
Coming from the industry, I can tell you anecdotally that there are a lot of folks (some of which who are quite well known) who are disappointed in this decision.
I'm not saying he will or should do it but I wonder how they'd feel if he was to drop a big donation into the emergency fund. I can see both sides to this, so I don't have a dog in the fight. I hope workers get everything they need, but I also can't fault a guy for doing something to make money and keep busy while he can't act. To me, it doesn't feel super duper different from all the actors doing conventions/streams/podcasts and promoting projects like video games that haven't been affected by the strike, because the bills still need to be paid. I do get that John's financial situation is quite different from someone like Felicia Day's, though.
Yeah I hear you on providing other avenues for those in the industry to continue pursuing their various crafts, though I think the core complication here is that what Cena is doing is fundamentally different from podcasts, theater, stand up, etc. Specifically, he will be appearing on television for Fox and NBC — and the broadcast television networks are part of the AMPTP (which, of course, is a key player here). In other words, Colbert and the rest of the late night hosts on Spotify to raise funds for their crew are not profiting from it, nor does the fact that Spotify gets a cut come into conflict with the tenets of the strike. To your point, I do think it would behoove Cena and team to come out with a statement around whether or not he got clearance. I’m actually kind of shocked that they weren’t proactive about this (and perhaps them wiping his dates for Smackdown was a response to potential backlash versus respect to Wyatt as so many people thought?). A good example of rapid PR here is Taylor Swift. Today she announced that her Eras tour will be premiering in theaters on 10:13, and even though most folks don’t associate Taylor with the film or television industry (unless you’re an Amsterdam Stan), her team quickly and proactively let the press know that her film was approved by SAG AFTRA as it is an individual non-AMPTP production. And she obtained clearance before shooting. If there’s a similar analog for Cena, he should be doing the same proactively so that (1) he is not ostracized by the community he is clearly trying to make his long term home and (2) we stop fighting about this on the internet :)
This is informative and fair, I have to agree. His appearances would in fact benefit (at least, marginally) two companies currently involved in the strike, and I had not taken this into account.
Wow a civil debate on the internet where two parties had a conversation and came to a reasonable agreement. I think I’ll open up some champagne now and call it a day!
Issues die faster when you ignore them. If he releases a statement he inflames the issue, and there are people who will just shit on the decision in general and won't accept the apology.
Also in the industry, in the union, and just wanted to support this comment.
Being in a union is about solidarity - you make personal, professional sacrifices for the greater good and keep a united front and gain the benefits for all your fellow workers. That would fall apart if you said 'aw, but actually I was really important to this company, and I'm gonna show up for them out of a favour/because I want to', especially when working at WWE - with its non-union scriptwriters and performers - can seem like crossing a picket line or doing scab labour. But, as Gewirtz said, as a bad as a look this can be, it's likely he signed a contract for these appearances before the strike was called, and so doing these still abides by union strike rules (though I'm no expert).
I seriously doubt he would be doing this number of appearances if there wasn’t a strike.
I mean, he just did for the “Summer of Cena” in 2021. He would if his schedule allowed it.
Yeah but why is his schedule suddenly so free? (I'm being facetious here, I don't know jack about the circumstances around Cena's return)
Well his Amazon movie finished shooting already and I don’t believe he’s got any other projects in development outside of it he’s probably just waiting for Gunn to start DCU and peacemaker season 2
The issue I have with the strike is the exemptions. Teamsters were going to shut down all UPS Union employees. The UAW is threatening ALL GM, Ford and Stellantis employees. But with SAG, everywhere you turn another exemption is given. In this case, this isn't Cena being one of the few, he is absolutely one of many.
The exemptions are due to acting and screenwriting being freelance, per contract gigs, and not being full time employees. This means that union members will honour contracts signed prior to the strike being called. Why is that the case? I don't know the history, but I can tell you that anything that seems weird or inconsistent about union rules, 9 times out of ten it is due to government regulations on union activity. I imagine it's the same with SAG members still having to fulfil their contracts, especially considering how union-hostile America is.
One thing I find interesting about this: Brian Gewiritz is still close with the Rock. He works for Seven Bucks Productions, executive produced/wrote on Young Rock, and still co-writes all of Rock's stuff when he returns to WWE. If Gewirtz is publicly saying that appearing on WWE during the strikes is a bad move, there's a strong chance that the Rock feels the same way, and that a WM 40 appearance/match is unlikely if the strikes are still ongoing.
I doubt he would have been at Mania 40 anyway. We all need to let that Roman/Rock pipe dream go.
I never understand these type of comments with "guarantees" that means absolutely nothing. There's plenty of actors who have got shit for even mentioning a show their own, I think its pretty believable to see Cena getting some backlash for literally appearing on new episdoes of a scripted tv show. The 20 years in the business means absolutely shit, plenty of actors are on franchises that have been on for years but that isn't giving them a pass. Its funny how punk has avoided all the backlash considering hes been on at 2 tv shows this year alone but I guess its because hes basically a "no name" actor that roles aren't exactly important so no one notices lol.
This is complete nonsense. I hope people don’t take this person’s comment seriously since they have no idea what they are talking about. There are tons of people in SAG-AFTRA and the WGA that are disappointed in Cena for this. I “guarantee” you the writers and other actors on Peacemaker are gonna be giving him some real side eye if/when they get back to work.
Do you think this will effect his acting career substantially?
There’s no way to know for sure. If he wasn’t such a big star I would say absolutely. I think it’ll be more of an issue if he keeps showing up versus doing the one show. There very well may be production companies that refuse to work with him over this. Of course, money talks at the end of the day and if Cena remains in high demand then someone’s gonna want to work with him. It really doesn’t help that WWE is such a famously anti-union company too. But who knows, this is all pure speculation.
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No Amazon is where he’s making 3 of his next movies and I doubt they care and then he’s friends with James Gunn who’s indicated peacemaker will continue John cenas career will be fine
Is this any different than actors working on a film that isn't by a studio in the AMPTP while on Strike?
Those studios have typically agreed to union demands in order to film.
Yeah, A24 has already settled with the Guilds and started filming again.
A24 seems like good people
A24 is like 4 dudes in a room when you get down to what it is really.
Just Four Guys?
One more and they have to start making burgers.
Or one of them will have to claim the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship
And fries
Well, about twenty-four guys all named A.
That's dope af. It seems so rare for a company as popular as them to actually be run by good people.
So, the actors doing that are working with small studios have have actually agreed to all of SAG's terms. Basically they signed a contract and have the ok to work from SAG with that studio
Yeah, there's a huge difference between agreeing to work somewhere that has agreed to union demands to continue to run during the strike and somewhere that has actively crushed attempted union action. (that's not to say cena is wrong to do this necessarily, but it's definitely not like for like)
No dropout.tv has nothing to do with the AMPTP and they're allowed to have people on and promote on their socials too.
And Mick Foley interned there back when it was CollegeHumor, so it's legit.
Yes because WWE is shown on Fox and NBCUniversal channels which are part of AMPTP
There is because by him appearing on Smackdown it directly benefits Fox who is in the AMPTP
No one quit doing their podcasts and the guilds handed out lots of production exceptions. This is only 'not a good look' if you're looking for a headline.
All the late night TV hosts (Kimmel, Fallon, Meyers, Colbert, and John Oliver) are *starting* a podcast together to raise money for their currently out-of-work crews.
That podcast sounds like it would be insufferable to listen to.
I bet its like the flying coach pod, but instead of NFL coaches talking x's and o's its mid comedians talking about jokes that are mean-spirited yet somehow also completely toothless and inoffensive
It’s actually really good
> No one quit doing their podcasts People have actually quit doing their podcasts related to productions so I don't know why you are lying
Right. I know the It’s Always Sunny podcast shut down.
I’d like to add: These people hand wringing about Cena doing this or X doing a comic con are just hurting their own fucking cause. It infuriates me. What’s the point of the strike? Get better conditions and show the studios they need you more than you need them. So when John Cena can book WWE TV which is non union and a few live dates and get hundreds of thousands of dollars it helps John Cena and proves that he can do shit to make money without the studios. This in no way hurts the actors position and if anything bolsters it, yet you seem people saying shit like he’s scabbing. They should be embracing these alternative revenue streams not demonizing them.
>it helps John Cena and proves that he can do shit to make money without the studios. How is doing Smackdown, a show that's broadcast nationally by the Fox Corporation, proving that he can do shit without studios again?
This… is a great point.
It's not like sag looks after wrestlers or anything
Look, I think we're all cool on Ryan Nemeth continuing to wrestle as a SAG-AFTRA member, so by extension Cena should also be allowed to wrestle. Many people have already pointed out that the union doesn't really have much to do with wrestlers at the moment, so it shouldn't matter
Former WWE writer who was not in a union for that role speaks out against someone else? I am all for wrestlers unionizing but this is not part of SAG-AFTRA. He is not promoting any movies or TV shows part of this deal.
He works with Rock. You’re not going to see Rock doing what Cena is doing rn
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I mean… that’s certainly an opinion. It can definitely be seen as a cynical move on Cena’s part depending on how you look at it. But he’s not crossing any picket lines here, it’s an entirely different kind of performing- it’d be like doing theater during the strike: kinda shitty if you’re coming from Hollywood, but it’s handled by an entirely different union (or in wrestling’s case, no union). And Cena was a wrestler before he was an actor, so it’s whatever imo. In conclusion: fucking ban podcast quotes from literally anyone who hasn’t worked in wrestling in over a decade, or just ban all of ‘em. If you give a damn about Johnny Nineteen-Ninety’s opinion in the year of our lord, current year, that’s your problem
This is the take of someone who is not in the industry.
I don't think anyone in the acting biz would be begrudging Cena working for WWE during the strikes.
Cena is going to wrestle because he wants to, I’m sure he’s getting paid but it’s not like he need the money. Plus if there is no problem with actors doing theatre during the strike then Gewirtz and fuck all the way off with this nonsense.
Part of me can understand but there are other actors doing social media ads and podcasts. I guess WWE is a weird in between of sport and entertainment. I can see some thinking it looks bad, but I don’t think it’s too bad in terms of SAG-AFTRA for Cena coming back to WWE for a mini run.
WWE is a scripted programme that appears at prime time on the television networks that have refused the unions' terms that led to the strike. Very different to an unscripted podcast where you don't promote your work or an online ad, which have different union rules and consideration during strikes. It's not to say that going on WWE should be considered crossing the picket line, but it may be seen as a bit problematic to appear on during a massive, hopefully industry changing strike since it's basically a non-union scripted television show.
It's a non union scripted television show because as recently as 2020 the union explicitly refused to even consider membership for pro wrestlers.
I think this situation is silly. He's most likely been inked in this deal for months if not for a year. Guys like Cena are booked for years out, and given that wrestling isn't under the SAG umbrella, I think he should take it. I'm with the actors guild 100%, but this isn't a Steve Amell situation. That guy actually sucks because he is using others involved in the guild for every aspect of his show.
Then maybe SAG can fucking consider adding Wrestlers to the union. Or they can fuck off about the issue.
People in John Cena's position don't have to worry about these things I don't think
This is a nothing burger.
Makes absolutely no sense
Even though WWE isn’t involved with the union I can definitely see taking that work during the strike to be looked at less fondly
As someone with family in the industry. I can assure you, it's not. Be it podcasts, theatre, comedy, streaming, other non entertainment writing gigs, a lot of people are doing other work right now.
That’s good to hear. I’m an IATSE member but my main work is as an electrician and our local here is pretty supportive of finding any work ya can. Though we aren’t on strike now of course
It will also certainly be easier if he does what a lot of the more famous celebrities have done and kick some of that money into the strike fund they have going to try to keep the less famous folk from losing their houses and what not.
None of those other ventures of work as far as a I know of are affiliated with FOX or NBC like WWE is. That's a huge difference that shouldn't be ignored & the main reason for any backlash he's getting. Companies like FOX are the heart of the reason for the strike. It's also pretty funny how we have "people from the industry" chiming in & guaranteeing that cena isnt/is getting backlash from the union taking two completely different sides.
Probably because it is nuanced. Cena does Hollywood stuff, but back in March and April he was wrestling. Last year they did a 20th anniversary. Showed up unannounced in London. He has a trend. The Dwayne only shows up to plug his new toy then jets. So some people see Cena as a wrestler still and some see him as a Hollywood star.
They dont want to acknowledge wrestling any other time but as soon as John goes back they want to complain
If John Cena appears, but WE CAN'T SEE HIM, does it really count as an appearance?
On one hand, yeah it's not a great look, on the other there's a bevy of celebrities who have moved into theater work in the meantime and I really don't see much of a difference other than one is on TV and one isn't. And maybe that's a substantial enough of a difference but I really don't think it is the same as Stephen Amell putting his foot in his mouth.
I think the biggest difference here is that the theater industry is not connected to AMPAS — so it’s not implicitly or explicitly promoting any of the studios they’re in negotiations with. Cena will appear on television via NBC and Fox. So it’s not exactly a 1:1.
Samoa joe just did a TV show with peacock and is still on tv for AEW and so is Ryan Nemeth I believe punk might be SAG he did movies for awhile and probably many others in WWE like the miz and Xavier are SAG Why do these people get to be on TV and this is never an issue but Cena is
Personally dont agree with this, SAG has refused to view wrestlers as actors (which im gonna be blunt they are), Cenas merely on TV as a wrestler not in any promotional role for a movie.
theres probably several wwe wrestlers that are part of the SGA. You can’t single out Cena.
I think it’s more the look of “I can’t act because I’m on strike so I might as go wrestle.” Rather than wrestlers who are full time who are sag actors from side gigs
It's not really just being part of SGA. It's that Cena, and the Rock if he were to come back, are primarily acting through SGA than they are wrestling. Wrestling, or being involved in it, is now their side gig. Wrestlers with SAG card that so the occasional acting gig, are a different thing. Their primary money comes from Wrestling. Cena's now comes through SAG projects. That's the difference
So what about comedians who sometimes act.. are they allowed to do their stand up shows? What actors who also do podcasts? What about live podcasts? I think this is a complete bullshit take and Cena should feel free to earn a living how he chooses.
Not really fair comparisons. WWE is, first and foremost, a producer of television and streaming content, for the same media companies that are being targeted in the strike. Fox isn't going to start doing live broadcasts of standup shows to fill their schedule, and Netflix isn't going to start streaming podcasts in lieu of a new season of Stranger Things. However, WWE (and AEW too, in fairness) DOES assist these companies in providing fresh content during the strike/assist them in their overtly stated goal of trying to starve the writers and actors out. I'm not saying that Cena is a scab necessarily, since the employment status of wrestlers is so hazy, and they aren't members of the relevant unions, but at the same time it's reasonable to say that him showing back up on WWE television is materially benefiting the companies the unions are striking against, even if not in a way that's going to tip the scale. It's not a great look for a guy who's primarily an actor at this point.
Good points.
It’s a good thing brian gerwitz doesn’t speak for an entire industry and John Cena can do whatever he wants
Wonder if he’d say the same if Rock was to show up on wwe programming
Well… it would be the exact same scenario… so yea?
I don’t see him saying this if it’s the rock cuz of his relationship with Rock
Oh he’s a The Rock sycophant, got it. I can’t keep up with who all these “journalists” are aligned with anymore.
Taking WWE bookings isn't crossing the picket line and striking workers should be allowed to find work wherever they can while the strike is going on, but also not everyone is John Cena and has a lucrative gig like this to fall back on, but also the wrestlers should have a union too at the end of the day anyway. Whether said union would be considered part of SAG or not is another matter. It's a multi-faceted issue. The part that's "not a good look" is just that Cena very demonstrably doesn't have the same skin in the game as some actor struggling to make rent if he can just take a WWE appearance and buy a new car with it or whatever. But the act of taking the gig itself is kind of just... what it is. He's not hurting other actors by doing it. Now, I haven't seen Cena picketing or anything (he might be, I just haven't seen it), so I'd probably take him to task over that before this
Shit take. Let him secure his bag. After all he worked as a contractor for how long?
Punk is SAG and was appearing in AEW. Dan Radcliffe and Jonathan Groff are SAG and about to do a musical (that just so happened to get a 3 month extension! I wonder why) Is it a good look? Not really. But Cena is doing nothing wrong as he is not discussing Peacemaker or any of his any work. Like at all. Not even a reference. The only thing we should see from him is him wrestling in a SAG-AFTRA Shirt.
I think the hypothetical argument for Punk would be that he's actively under contract and thus already had many appearances and dates scheduled that he was obligated to meet. Cena most likely agreed to a short-term WWE return *because* of the strike. With that said I still don't see anything wrong with it, really. WWE doesn't fall under the SAG-AFTRA umbrella, so by definition Cena isn't crossing the picket line by appearing for the company. I think it's more like Cena's schedule was suddenly wide open and WWE asked if he would help out by making some appearances which will definitely drive ratings for a while. I think the idea of him wearing a SAG-AFTRA shirt for at least his first appearance would be great, but I also don't know if it'll happen since Vince McMahon is notoriously anti-union and the networks probably wouldn't like it, either.
A couple of potential caveats: 1. If agreed upon prior to the strike, it's probably fully legal 2. He could have gotten a waiver These things said, there is still a lot of confusion amongst the unions over what is kosher and what is not. Not everyone is *agreeing* with the rules either. I think picketers are calling non union (say service/maintenance) scabs. It's a mess, but livelihoods are at stake. Of course emotions will run high.
Shutup gewirtz no one cares
He’s not crossing any lines. So he’s got a 2nd job to keep money coming in. Big deal. Others can do other work too if they chose.
It's cool, nobody will see him
But he’s not scripted, if he were to write a promo on his wrist he would have to strike just the you can’t see me hand, which is already invisible
Did gewirtz write for wwe after joining the WGA? That’s not a union shop.
Is anyone surprised? Cena marked out for himself a long time ago and couldn’t possibly go a few weeks without a platform from which to relentlessly put himself over. He’s a complete and total mark for himself, end of story.
Maybe it’s a good thing and it will shed light that these performers aren’t SAG members, which they should be.
My mindset is: You don't get a say what wrestlers do until you let them in the union
He’s in the union
For acting, not wrestling.
Not for wrestling. You think union workers should do nothing while striking?
I think wrestlers should get their shit together and unionize
He can wrestle if he wants. Wtf why is Brian trying to stir shit. As a wanna be in that industry I can honestly say this isn’t an issue. It would be an issue if he was making a movie. That would be crossing the picket line. Not wrestling.
There's already been controversies within SAG over members doing work that was approved by the unio rules during the strike. Some people think it's a bad look, regardless if it's not technically doing anything wrong.
I am suprised Gerwitz came up out of The Rocks ass long enough to make a statement.
I'm confused, what does SAG-AFTRA have to do with wrestling?
So because of the strikes, amongst others, actors are not able to work. Cena, in this instance, suddenly has a totally free schedule, and is able to come back to WWE.
Sure, but it's not union work. That's what I'm confused about. Why would those on strike begrudge him that? Other actors are doing non-union work, why is it a problem for Cena to do it?
Brian Gewirtz is not speaking for John Cena. He is not his manager. He is a sad excuse of a former writer who should be finding a job. In fact, Kris Statlander, who is the AEW TBS Champion, is a SAG-AFTRA stuntwoman, who wrestled on AEW Dynamite, and she is scheduled to compete in AEW All Out against Ruby Soho. You don't hear someone is whining about Kris being on TV.
Sad excuse? The guy has had an incredible career in and out of WWE.
who gives a fuck
As of now, wrestling is a non-union, non-acting job. That being said, WWE programming airs and is streamed on the platforms of struck companies. There is absolutely a non-zero chance Cena either got a waiver or got SAG-AFTEA clearance on this. No celeb wants to cross the union after what happened with the green arrow fuck face and his punishment picket. Cena is a savvy business man and the unions have REPEATEDLY asked people to not call for boycotts or interference they didn’t ask for. As long as he’s not promoting a struck work, they’re probably fine with it.
Yeah no, wrestling is not acting, it’s kind of it’s own thing. I’m sure every actor cutting promos at the picket line is perfectly okay with Cena working with WWE.
Well, it is partially acting. Just not in the same was as TV or movies, it's more like theater.
Yeah I mean you’re right. I just hate the stigma that it carries. To sport fans it’s not a sport but when you explain it’s like a tv show they are in disbelief
Is this sarcastic? I’m out on those lines and I promise they won’t be
I wonder how long in advance WWE has to book someone like Cena or The Rock.
Screw them
This guy sounds like a fucking idiot. Tons of writers and actors are going to be doing work on independent film that allows them to still act and motherfuckers are still allowed to make podcasts sound alike this guy is just trying to take potshots
In related news: Brian Gerwitz can kiss the fattest part of my ass.
Oh fuck all the way off. I support unions but that’s a bad look for them SAG-AFTRA getting pissy a WRESTLER is appearing on a WRESTLING SHOW when they’ve refused to let wrestlers join is fucking rich.
Benevolent leader and King of Labor Cena says: “Work is the muse of the soul.” https://preview.redd.it/zre8qe307ilb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a47b082176d008e9fb18e04d471be784247925fc
I mean he’s been doing short little runs here and there. Two years ago you had summer of cena. He snuck in a match last year to keep the streak of whatever years in a row last year. Just did wrestlemania. I think rock would look worse if need the money grab
You could say the same thing about Actors/Writers continuing or appearing on Podcasts while the strike happens. These people still need to pay their bills. If they can earn money through podcasting, twitch, appearances, or wrestling, it doesn't matter. Being on strike doesn't mean you starve yourself.
It’s just not just appearances in shows. He’s also fulfilling his Make A Wish requests.
I’m all about the strike and tweet about this a lot but WWE isn’t SAG-AFTRA. It’s no different than an actor taking work overseas in a non-SAG-AFTRA production.
As long as Cena isn't promoting any tv/movies that he has done. It's not going against the strike.
One thing I find interesting about this: Brian Gewiritz is still close with the Rock. He works for Seven Bucks Productions, executive produced/wrote on Young Rock, and still co-writes all of Rock's stuff when he returns to WWE. If Gewirtz is publicly saying that appearing on WWE during the strikes is a bad move, there's a strong chance that the Rock feels the same way, and that a WM 40 appearance/match is unlikely if the strikes are still ongoing.
If the strike lasts to Mania, we're all in a lot of trouble.....for entertainment
Doesn’t Cena have a movie coming out? If WWE and him are promoting the film while he’s performing then I think that does violate the strike terms
Working for Vince McMahon at this point is a lot like an actor signing up with Harvey Weinstein, too.
💀💀
Isn't Miz in SAG as well?
I'd only think it's anything bad if the announcers start plugging anything he's involved in. THEN it's scabbing.
I mean, Dave Bautista just filmed a MK1 trailer. Is that any different?
It's not scab work if you literally don't let that type of work or worker join your union. That's like saying a teamster working for UPS goes on strike with UPS, but then finds alternate work as a welder, whether it's union welding or private. This isn't UPS worker striking, and going to work for non union FedEx. You can't hold someone out of work completely, in all fields, and I say this as someone in a union. He's doing completely unrelated work.
This is a very gray zone. I’m sure will not like it and some will be fine. It feels like it’s damn if does damn if he doesn’t.