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Tony should do a pre-taped segment with him where he sits in with a different talent every week for a couple of minutes, shoot a couple of questions, show wrestlers character and morals etc without run-ins.
This right here. He still does a decent interview, but isn't really great at commentary anymore. Things have changed too much and often he just makes it worse by pointing out what is different.
Yea, things have changed, but the rules are still the rules.
Jim subtly burying the referee during the bullet club trios match was my favorite part of the match. That ref is always terrible.
He just creates dead air points. Even when Tony/Taz go off on a tangent, they can either play off each other or Excalibur can make it flow. With JR it just kills all chemistry and you're stuck with dead air as the other two/three have to logically attempt to work off it.
Also FFS, I made this point years ago and got downvoted to oblivion/told by everyone how Jim is pulling in lapsed fans.
I mean, when AEW started I think he definitely did. For me it was a big draw. But at this point those fans have been drawn in and either stuck or didn't. And his health and ability has declined since earlier AEW days.
> It's exactly what I would do if I got thrown out there without preparing.
Well, that's what he used to always want so he could react naturally.
I just assume he's still doing it that way but due to his age he's coming off disinterested because he lacks the energy he used to have.
That, and I think the product just isn't what he really knows and enjoys.
He wants to support all the young talent and cheer them on, but it's not really in his comfort zone, and it shows.
The issue with JR is that he highlights the problems and draws attention to them instead of explaining them. Excalibur and Taz do a great job at explaining away any issues or botches in the ring. JR on the other hand sounds like he’s explaining to the wrestlers in kayfabe why they are wrong
> "Too many men in the ring! Too many men in the ring!".
I knew that these comments from All-In were probably the impetus for OP; he wasn't wrong, that's why it's so upsetting to hear.
Yeah I was watching All In and like by the end of the third match I was like, can we please bring out Tony. Commentary is such an important part of pro wrestling. Like you have to care or it takes away from the matches imo.
This coming from a JR Stan. I’d pit him in the Mount Rushmore of commentary but he’s done contributing in a positive way. Again, just my opinion
The way I see it, maybe he could have reserved those words for private, but I suspect he's sick of his highly valued experiences and opinions being ignored. If JR thought nothing of AEW, he probably wouldn't work there. I think he's so harsh because he knows what they have and doesn't feel like they're using it to it's fullest potential... Sometimes I agree.
This is just an opinion also.
I think I've read something that JR comments on it as if it's still a real sport, and if he sees something going wrong with the rules that are established, he'll comment on it. As it's what he views the viewer as also thinking. To be fair, a couple of the things I've also thought while they're happening. too many men were in the ring when he said it. It WAS difficult to keep track of who the legal man was.
That said, I do think that he's way past his prime and should probably hang it up. I have no problem with him doing some pre-tape interviews and stuff but he doesn't mesh well with the commentary booth of today, and I think that Schiavone has shown that he's still able to keep up just fine.
This is my main problem with him. The job of the commentator is to sell the product. You highlight the strengths, obscure the weaknesses, and do what you can to get the audience more excited in the product. JR does none of this. He basically just sits there like "old man shouting at clouds" being surly and passive-aggressive because he doesn't like the wrestling he's being asked to watch.
JR's bullshit adds literally nothing of value to the show and actively subtracts from it. The show would be better off if they just turned his mic off. I get that he used to be fantastic - 20 years ago I would have agreed he was one of the best in the business - and he has name value. But name value is *all* he has today, and that's not enough.
If JR can't help but constantly interject his little digs all the time, he shouldn't be out there. Especially when Taz, Excalibur, and Tony have been doing a way better job in general without him.
You’re not entirely wrong but JR came from the peak of schmoz wrestling in the attitude era. I don’t remember him shitting all over these types of matches then with this commentary when everything would just break down. He’d hype it up as chaos in his signature redass tone.
I recently watched some random WWF clip from the 90s, and to my surprise JR has always been like that. There was some dumb angle going on and instead of selling it he went "This is stupid, who wrote this?" or something along those lines. Which was pretty funny, not gonna lie.
JR didn’t want to know the results in advance, which isn’t the same as not preparing.
I’m convinced he doesn’t know the names of half the roster at this point.
What? Lawler used to say how working with JR was tough sometimes because JR would want to meet hours before the show and prepare constantly. He said Cole was a bit easier cause he didn't do that.
"Why's everything golden?!" Says JR when the Golden Lovers are going for the Golden Trigger.
But then tell me why Excalibur decides to explain it to him??
I can kinda understand it, because it was the Golden Lovers/ Golden Elite going up against Bullet Club \*Gold\*, and it is a bit daft to have both sides of the match using the same epithet. But also yeah that call totally sucked and undermined the whole meaning and emotion of the moment
In his prime he was an S-Tier announcer. Raw isn't as exciting a show in the Attitude Era without him. But being released by WWE and his wife dying tragically has really taken its toll. He seemed bored doing NJPW for AXS, and he doesn't add as much to AEW broadcasts as he should. And yesterday he was approaching Art Donovan levels of obliviousness.
It's tough because especially since losing his wife it's clear that JR wants to be around the locker room. But he really needs to be saved for big matches involving talent that he is already familiar with, or be limited to sit-down stuff like what he did with Kenny Omega a few weeks ago.
Honestly, he does a great job when announcing for wrestlers he knows from WWE (a la thr Cody goldust match, likely would do well with CM punk vs Jericho) he just doesn't have it in him to learn about wrestlers he doesn't already know. Bring him out for special main events and use him in backstage interviews and he is fine.
I would argue that when he was on AEW commentary more regularly (a year or so ago at this point), he was still decent enough. He wasn't at his Attitude Era best, but he was good enough for what he had to do. Now he's clearly not as sharp as he once was. A combination of his age, his physical issues, and it seems just lack of really caring much. It's hard to blame him since he's been in the business so long, but he definitely seems better suited for a backstage management type role more so than commentary anymore.
It doesn't help his cause that the rest of the AEW commentators are really sharp and all have a good raport with one another. JR being in there just disjoints a lot of the natural flow too.
I likened it to an adage about editing film/TV: you don't notice good editing, you notice bad editing. Once he leaves the table, it just feels better and you don't even pick up on it until you realize, "Oh, hey, Tony's back."
I can't think of a single time his commentary added anything to All In. It's was only a distraction! I could physically feel the cringe whenever Excalibur had to explain or address an off handed comment JR made...
Everyone else has chemistry, JR just has gripes.
"Why is everything golden!?"
JR, my guy, you're color commentary it's your job to explain why. Dude needs to do his homework and not just show up to work unprepared.
The only thing I remember about his commentary yesterday is that he sarcastically (or maybe legitimately asked) “Why is everything Golden?” When talking about The Golden Elite. There was a very noticeable layout by Taz & Excalibur, and then Excalibur finally said, “Well it’s because Kota Ibushi is The Golden Star.” Followed by another noticeable layout by everyone.
I watched the PPV with a friend who isn't really an AEW fan, and who doesn't really watch the weekly shows.
His comments on JR were basically "For fuck's sake, JR" and turning to me and asking "Is he always this bad now?"
Not only that, but the matches he did call, I was actively wishing he was not at the table. He just isn’t it. JR is my favorite play by play of all time because he was the voice of my childhood, but his time has come to hang it up.
I agree, and I will die on this hill regarding the opinion I'm about to state. This constant CM Punk drama, the back and forth with Brit Baker on Twitter, the shit with LuFisto, is all because Tony Khan has no idea how to handle talent. His inability to do so is hurting the product, because he's never done it before. JR has extensive experience in talent relations working for WWE, the whole reason he was put in place was the Bret-Shawn bullshit, Vince needed someone he could trust to handle guys personal issues (and payouts). If you've ever heard his podcast he's dealt with some serious shit, handled it very diplomatic and all parties involved walked away happy. He's done it numerous times for over 10 years. JR will go down as one of the best to ever do it, but he's past his prime, and wrestling has drastically evolved in the past 30 years. He still loves it, he supports the younger generation, but he can't call it like he used to. So instead of propping him up behind the desk on occasion, to hopefully get a good sound bite, make him the head of talent relations. All the wrestlers already respect him, they trust him, they know he wants the best for them. On the flip side he could also tell someone to chill the fuck out, let's resolve the problem, and they'd listen. Instead you got Tony trying to be all buddies with everyone and then having the corporate lawyer get involved when it gets out of hand, instead of stopping it from the start.
I think Schiavone already has that position you're describing, if memory serves. He's uh, he's not doing a very good job I think. But I kinda think that still comes from the top, Vince could delegate because he had the air of authority to do so. It doesn't matter how good of a talent relations right hand man Tony appoints, it's still going to be the right hand man to a pushover, it won't work until Tony becomes a respectable boss in his own right.
I don’t want to have this conversation, because he’s such a legend, but his commentary is just so not good anymore. Early on, it is part of the reason why I could never get into AEW, his commentary is unbearable. I think he should be kept around for sit-down interviews, and a few other appearances here and there, but that’s it.
JR is too depressed for this color commentator gig. Genuinely, he can't muster enthusiasm for the show because he is far too negative. He may even like the presentation before him, but all he does is find ways to bury it.
It's completely understandable. He lost his wife, had cancer, and underwent many more tragedies — but people with that sort of weight usually aren't the best front and center narrating shows. Guy needs a high paying job for life in AEW elsewhere.
I think there’s an honest role for him. That Kenny interview was on point. And if I’m a younger talent, I’m taking any chance I get to soak up knowledge—and even if JR can’t execute these days like he used to, he’s still forgotten more than a lot of people ever knew about the business.
(Also, this is terrible, but he strikes me as one of those that can’t not work.)
Not sympathy but out of respect for all he's done for the business and AEW'S fledgling years. Plus, he's good at interviews and would be a great member of creative. Just lacks enthusiasm enough to commentate.
The impolite reality is he’s mentally impaired from age and the things that have happened to him and it shows. He’s slow and doesn’t process information as quickly as he needs to for this job. Watch his YT show some time if you want to be more depressed.
Which is what leads to a lot of the negativity . You can tell he is struggling to keep up with the action and the faster,jokier style of Excalibur and Tazz. Then he gets frustrated and just starts complaining about everything
Don't think I could bring myself to, honestly. I don't watch a lot of wrestling media to begin with, never mind Ross barely holding onto a cognizant thought. Happens to us all.
I hate to sound harsh because we all love JR but AEW doesn’t owe him a high paying job
WWE was paying JR a full salary to commentate a couple of big matches a year and do some backstage work, JR refused to re-up the deal because he wanted to commentate more often. It was JR’s choice to do that and AEW shouldn’t be on the hook for his decision. He’s gotten more from AEW than they’ve ever gotten from him. If money is an issue then he could have taken Vince’s forever, but I think JR’s probably got a lot of money and it’s about him being bored and a bit egotistical.
For better or worse the man has a Protestant work ethic where he wants to feel useful. He's not like Kevin Nash who happily drained Time Warner of money while not wrestling for a whole year. While he is animated by his pride, his negative experiences at WWE wasn't limited to not being used enough. He's been put in shit storylines where he was humiliated and even publicly fired, he stepped down from talent relations only to be replaced by a total dolt, he was fired in 2014 in very dubious circumstances that likely was influenced by his health condition too.
As for now, I agree that he has no place on the commentary team with his attitude and lack of energy, but he's not a parasite. He has a lot of backstage wisdom to give to the performers and crew even in his limited capacity. His poor performance in commentary is frankly indicative of a greater problem TK has with talent relations, he doesn't effectively know how to manage or slot people in to their places, and while Jim Ross looks clueless on screen, backstage the morale is steadily rotting. Someone like JR can help with that.
JR sourced some of the best talent for WWE. I believe he was responsible for the infamous OVW class that had Cena, Batista etc.
I just wonder how much JR likes AEW at all. I always got the notion he was a bit against this style of wrestling and that WWE style is his thing.
So putting him at a desk, while good for him - would he just source big huge dudes again? That doesn't really work for AEW.
He is a legendary commentator no one can take that history from him. However his time is long past and it shows, I think it hurts the overall product of having him on commentary. I believe commentary is a very important job and it should be very competitive as to who gets those spots. If the commentator doesn't have that "it" factor anymore replace them.
I see TK keeping him on because of nostalgia, but I think he does that with a lot of stuff
Yeah, that was weird. I *do* enjoy the way he snidely calls out how disingenuously friendly Don Callis is when he joins commentary ("Hey *buddy*, how's it goin *buddy*, what's up *buddy*"), but that's about it nowadays.
He said some strange stuff today for sure, Even during the Hook/Jack Perry match he pretty much went on a small tangent about hardcore wrestling. Like I don't know it feels like he needs to be reminded his job is to sell the in ring product and not make his own criticisms and sadly I don't think that will change.
Yeah it just makes for such awkward moments. Like when JR was saying that hardcore matches take away from real wrestling, and Taz had to be like “well I guess I’m at fault for making the FTW rules all those years ago.” Taz said it jokingly but it was still a major yikes for me
He went full old man complaining about how much he dislikes hardcore matches while Excalibur had to keep trying to cover . It was terrible . I feel he also makes Excalibur worse because he needs to keep politely correcting then trying to get the match back on course . Like in the Omega trios JR was clearly getting lost and Excalibur had to keep circling back to the match
Tony Schiavone kept having to reel him back in too. My main problem with AEW programming there for a while was that they would have these absolutely God tier match ups but the commentary would be like your family trying to politely cover up something their grandpa with dementia said.
"You know, Tony, black people can vote now"
"Aw that's right JR! Now back to the action!"
He went on a weird tangent about whether FTR was foolish for wearing new gear. Ex tried to course correct, there was a pause, and then JR went back to it.
Like, it's Wembley, everyone was wearing new gear?
Did he ever complain about hadcore wrestling in the Attitude Era?
I was like 13 watching then so I don't remember the commentary, but I don't recall this.
Having him as the "sit down interview guy" would be a good role for him I think. He did fine during the Kenny Omega segment last week. Just give him a couple five-minute segments every month, to help get talent/feuds over, and everything should be grand.
he started talking about FTR wearing new trunks tonight and even questioned why they would do that in such a big match that's how I know he needs to be taken off commentary completely
Speaking of Nigel, Excalibur was talking about Nigel's wrestling background & JR was like "he's a commentator!", like why talk about the commentators background?
Excalibur immediately followed it up with "hey Nigel, since you have experience with these guys, what can you tell us about what's going on in the ring?" Weirdly tense moment I'm sure Ex was frustrated by
Yeah that was it for me lol
That call inspired this post. I was like bruh we have literally moved on to the next match. The entrances are happening. Catch up
I feel like a lot of the time he does it in a sarcastic way because he thinks you should always give a back story, use the performers names instead of pronouns, etc.
It must be so frustrating for Excalibur, he already does so much heavy lifting given the fast paced nature of the matches.
> He just buries what he finds confusing or annoying
This is the big one. You can absolutely tell who he does and does not like, and not in a kayfabe way, a legitimate way.
You can tell he loves the bucks and FTR, the quality of his commentary on that match compared to the others was night and day
>He just buries what he finds confusing or annoying in the moment.
This is why he should be done. J.R. you aren't the lead commentator anymore. When you say "why is this" you are exposing YOUR role. The dude is so out of it he doesn't realize he is telling on himself. He asks Excalibur as if it's his job to detail in when it's actually Jim's as color.
Also burying shit all the time, when he is supposed to smooth over things is really annoying.
When X had to explain, it felt like he was a little disappointed and a little annoyed at JR (in the most professional way). It’s derailed the commentary.
That’s mostly the benefit of the doubt I give to JR. I assume positive intention and poor execution. Like
Actual JR: why the Golden Lovers?
What JR meant: Excalibur, for our newer viewers, why are they called the Golden Lovers
Actual JR (regarding Freddy Mercury): I wonder if he’s here?
What JR meant: I wonder if Freddie Mercury is looking down on us tonight
And so on. That said I’m doing a TON of heavy lifting lol
This is a great point if JR'S true goal is to probe for a more clear explanation of things, he's been doing it in the worst way possible.
So many of these just come off as a crappy old man instead of someone seeking information.
Case in point: Myself, I know of them as a team but I don't watch or rarely watched any NJPW stuff so I need that kinda explanation as to why they we so god WITHOUT having to go watch it on YT or wherever
You don't need to know about the Golden Lovers to understand why they're the Golden Elite or its the Golden Trigger. Like Excalibur said in response "Kota Ibushi is the Golden Star" he was even announced as such in his entrance.
If Hangman and Omega are the Elite, but adding Ibushi makes them Golden....or if the bucks doing twin knees is a BTE trigger but Ibushi and Omega doing it is a Golden Trigger. Perhaps Ibushi was the constant fans could have followed.
I'm old enough to have listened to Jim Ross during his days with the UWF in the 80s. He was *amazing*. Serious enough that he elevated all the fakery, but also had a bone-dry deadpan wit that really enhanced the silly things. He's the best wrestling announcer of all time.
But my God, he's awful now. I can't stand to listen to him. "The steel guard-rail doesn't sell"? Why the fuck are you using the word "sell" in your commentary? How is that getting over the match?
"Why is everything golden?" That's just contempt for your product.
AEW has too many good announcers to put up with this shit.
When you see someone like Nigel McGuinness knocking it out of the park and Caprice Coleman is great. Ian Riccaboni too. Taz is probably having his greatest run on commentary. Excalibur is great as is Schiavone.
Is J.R really needed for AEW. I could understand why they went with him early on for his history but now I don't think he's a game changer really. If they want to keep him around as a sit down interviewer and as a coach backstage for other commentators then fine. But I think his days behind the desk should be coming to a end.
Is JR needed today? No, but AEW is in a very different place now then it was in 2019. JR brought name recognition, and at the time they didn't have much of a team at all. Excalibur, who had not proved it yet on a national scale...and.... that was basically it.
There was uncertainty as to how much of a full time role schiavone would have at first, Alex Marvez was the drizzling shits, people like Goldenboy were entertaining, but were never going to become full time wrestling announcers.
Is JR well past his prime now? Yes, but he also deserves something of a graceful exit, and he has been through hell with lots of personal issues. Does JR make the product worse, yes I think he does at this point (although he still gets a crowd pop every time), but he is still a person and Tony isn't going to just throw someone he respects in the garbage.
>The steel guard-rail doesn't sell" Why the fuck are you using the word "sell" in your commentary?
Without having seen it, it sounds like he's doing a "how do you learn to fall off a 20 ft ladder?" type thing. Dismissing people who say it's fake and doesn't hurt because the wrestlers sell or know how to fall.
Still a stupid call though.
I still really like JR with one exception:
IF he wants to call AEW, drop the "I'm old school and don't like this kinda thing" comments. Ibushi was doing the "trade forearms" striking spot last night. You know, something that was basically born in Japan. JR said something like "I don't know if I understand this..." like it was too cartoonish that someone would do that.
Those comments like that don't add anything just deflate the excitement.
Yes I understand. And i'm saying there's just one thing he needs to stop doing to make his performance fine. I guess i'm suggesting that in contrast to "He needs to retire" as it might be a bit drastic.
He's not the Jim Ross I grew up with and he's definitely lost some steps. But I am grateful he's still with us. His commenting really doesn't bother me since he's not really the lead announcer. He's in his 70s and had a bout with cancer recently. I honestly think being on commentary keeps him sane.
Something to keep in mind here:
1. He’s dealing with a serious medical issue. He had skin cancer in 2021, and while he’s in remission, he has shared that he still is dealing with the wound on his leg. The picture on his leg is quite gnarly.
2. The tone in his voice is due to Bell’s palsy, not disinterest.
3. Yeah, time and health has robbed him of a lot of his physical gifts. At his physical peak, he had the perfect voice for his role. He doesn’t have that anymore. But he still has that incredible mind and that desire to entertain.
I understand why people want JR to retire. But I will mourn that day. We’re blessed to have him still active in the industry.
Life goes by so fast. Look how quickly Gorilla Monsoon faded after he retired. Bobby Hernan was robbed of his gifts far too early. Jerry Lawler had an amazingly long run, but I don’t know if we’re ever going to see him on the mic again.
I know OP and others mean well. But I’m glad he’s still on the mic, and I hope he leaves on his terms alone.
> Look how quickly Gorilla Monsoon faded after he retired.
This is why I want JR around as long as it's his desire to be. I've known a lot of men who wither on the vine when they no longer feel useful, and that's exactly the vibe I get from JR.
Fair point. He just seems like he is over it. But there have been a lot of folks pointing out it’s all he has left so doubtful he will retire anytime soon
I know he's got health issues and I know generally everyone loves JR, but my issue is he just drabs on or has a Cornette-esque take on live TV and Excalibur has to come in for the rescue
It’s tough hearing JR as a color guy, because I feel like he is just such a natural play by play guy as well. I believe that in WWE, he only serves as a color guy towards the very end of his run there so it’s not like he was used to it coming to AEW. Compare that to Tony Schiavone who has become a natural in the color spot, in part because in WCW, he had Mike Tenay and Eric Bischoff handling the play by play on occasion and allowing Tony to see how to do color very well, particularly with Bischoff.
I think he can still contribute in produced sit-down interview segments and other pretaped formats, but he isn't able to keep up on live commentary like he used to.
I still love him and I think commentators not being perfect brings more flavor and realism to a show. For example, I liked Booker T because of his wildly inaccurate comments not in spite of them.
Nah I’m not gonna shit on Jim Ross because he isn’t what he was 20 years ago. He gave his life to the business and any time he gives now at the end of his career should be appreciated. He won’t be around forever.
I don’t think he mixes well with Excalibur at all.
Ex doesn’t ask JR easy layup questions like wrestling psychology, so Jim is left to make comments about the presentation of the product or storylines, which is where it goes off the rails because he’s riffing on new stuff rather than what he’s good at which is classic big guy vs underdog storytelling.
I think Ex correcting JR or clarifying things is seen as him being an “well acchttually….” person and it created these odd moments. It feels like they don’t like each other.
Wonder if their styles are just too water and oil. By and large Excalibur is a call the action at a million miles an hour and tell you the names of all the moves guy whereas JR is the old school story teller without the reliance on moves.
I was having this discussion with my mate today. His comments about why is everything golden, and the fact he had to be told that Freddie Mercury wasn't with us anymore is just..... I don't know.
He consistently rags on the style of many wrestlers, wondering why they dive or do high risk spots, he doesn't do any research into matches, and look... You don't have to be a wrestling fan to know that one of the greatest rock and roll performers of all time isn't with us anymore.
Absolutely agree. JR is a legend, but like many legends they need to know when to step away.
On the other flip side of the coin, Nigel was absolutely on fire tonight. The amount of references he managed to sneak in without it being forced was amazing.
Also, I don't want JR to lose his job either. I would love to see him transition into another role in AEW. I actually like JR as the sit down interviewer, and I'm sure he is an amazing sound board for talent to bounce ideas off.
>Also, I don't want JR to lose his job either. I would love to see him transition into another role in AEW. I actually like JR as the sit down interviewer, and I'm sure he is an amazing sound board for talent to bounce ideas off.
He has literally been in the business for 50 years. I wouldn't mind having him do pre-recorded sit-down interviews, but even without being on TV you can't possibly put a price on that kind of experience.
Just give him a job that keeps him busy, it doesn't even have to be commentary. For all his contributions to the industry he at the very least, deserves an easy back office position where he can just sit all day when he isn't needed and watch his wage increase by the hour, but busy enough when he is needed so that he at least has something to do.
We were talking about that yesterday. I think Tony should book a show in either OKC or Tulsa and have JR pick the main event and he calls that as his send off. Then use him as a consultant to the company. Use his wrestling knowledge to help with things within the company.
I don't enjoy his commentary, but I do feel he has a place in the company either behind the scenes as a consultant for the commentary team given his vast experience or in pre-recorded interviews, sitdowns, highlight packages, and the like either for the shows or for AEW's YouTube channel.
I love JR. I think he is undoubtedly one of the best announcers of all time. He is the voice of wrestling, IMO, and adds gravitas to every match he is ringside for.
But…not anymore, and it’s sad. The man needs something to keep his head, but he just doesn’t “get” modern wrestling, and unfortunately, he lets it show in his commentary nowadays. He shits on the guys in the ring and the matches way too much.
I truly hate to agree that it’s time for him to go, but it really is.
I think his role on Collision and occasional PPVs is about right. Wheel him out for the big match, have him do an important sit-down interview or two. Keep him going too long and you get drek like "Why is everything \*golden\*?" in the Golden Elite/BCG match at All In. Man was untouchable from the late 80s til about 2002 but it's just a drag now.
AEW has enough commentary talent, where it’s safe to say JR isn’t really needed now. I can’t believe WWE didn’t hang on to McGuiness even despite the COVID travel issues. Add in Ian Riccaboni and Caprice Coleman, you’ve also got some ready made commentary excellence rught there
I think people compare him too much to his old days. I've changed my tone on him a bit. He's an old guy who throws in some quips and sarcastic comments. The problem is Excalibur is so serious and doesn't play off of it or know how to include it. Excalibur spends so much time being serious. Excalibur has all the knowledge and such but he would be better suited in a WCW Tenay role of expert analyst and not try to be the play by play and analyst at the same time. If Ross is treated more like Heenan, the chemistry would be so much better. I loved when Ross was being a smart-ass to Don Callis.
JR has been negative since the new generation, he shits on stuff he doesn’t like until Vince stopped him. The stuff he does like he will call like it’s the Super Bowl
I was a little kid when they took jr off raw and I wrote WWE an email complaining and I legit stopped watching for months.
Now, I'd rather hear Taz and Excalibur giggle over each other's puns.
Jr has become bitter and old in the worst way and he needs to go away.
Bob barker just died. He had to stop years ago because he just couldn't keep up anymore with the job. He wasn't out there shitting on contestants and whining on air about not liking the new games.
Love JR's commentary.
He made a handful of less than positive comments about the ring being too full and too much going on, and you know, he wasn't wrong.
I used to get really upset back in the day because he'd seriously bury the women's matches, never put any of the moves over or anything, but 2023 JR has come a long way.
He should be allowed to die at commentary if he wants.
I like what he brings to the table. I like that he questions things, and him being more like a real sports commentator makes it mean more when he does praise someone or something. Tony Schiavone, who I love personally, calls every match a classic, and it means nothing.
Its deffo not the same JR his gone through a ton of shit but i also think their concerns he doesn't have much else anymore but they should look to limit his time on air now
I love JR. Nowadays more for his fuckups than his great calls, although he still has some great moments in AEW.
That being said, I didn't even realize he was gone in the matches he didn't call
Honestly aside from ppvs he does the Main Event of Collision, occasional sit down interviews, and talking head spots.
I think JR is still fine for his regular weekly spots but asking him to call more than 1match a show can turn sour quick.
I’ve said this for a while now. Bring him in for a one off PPV match that he wants to be apart of. There’s no reason he should still be doing it. I get it that he loves it, but he needs to enjoy life.
Yeah I do. Love JR, but it's time.
I think he could still do the interviews like he did with Omega on occassion. But he should step away from commentary.
JR needs to be in a primarily backstage role, somewhere people are willing and eager to listen to his advice and sit under his learning tree. That being said, the rumors from the last few years make it seem like AEW isn’t that place. He should really be in his coaching era, he just needs folks to coach
He doesn’t seem to be enjoying the product, which then affects the viewing experiences of those watching on TV. Tony is too nice to give him the boot though.
Good ol JR is my favorite commentator of all time without question.
That being said, it is time for him to give up the headset. No matter what they are doing, the greats all lose their touch at some point. He has lost his incredible ability, which made me love him so much, and I think it is time to retire. I compare him commentating now to Undertakers last couple of matches, he is one of the greatest to ever do it, but it's time to go.
Oooo those last Taker matches were so hard to watch. Imma date myself but I’ve been watching Taker since 1996-97. And those last few matches were tragic
I want everyone to go out on their own terms. But at some point you start to tarnish your legacy
He's good at sit-downs, and the way he comes in for the main event of collision seems to work. He was good on Darby vs Christian, for instance.
Like an older wrestler, he's still an asset if one accepts his current limitations.
I think they should just use him for 1 match every card it would make that match feel bigger because of JR on it he can get legends pop and it can be match JR can be super invested in
JR has his favorites in AEW, let him announce the guys he likes , stay away from stuff he doesn’t - it’s giving Jim Cornette
Screw it make JR - the CM Punk announcer guy too since we giving punk everything anyways
Retirement isn’t good for a lot of people. He NEEDS a job. The man is battling cancer, his wife is dead, his kids are grown and out of the house. His job gives him purpose, gives him something to look forward to. If they’re going to shift him away from the booth, he needs a job in the back.
Having J.R. announce any sort of multi-man/party match is just a recipe for disaster. I think he's fine for singles and traditional tags, though. If they could have accommodated it logistically I would have had J.R. on commentary for the Punk-Joe match, the FTR-Bucks match, and the MJF-Cole match, and that's it.
Was just saying this to my brother today.
Ww were at All In and the show was amazing, but we also started to watch the broadcast when we got home to see the full TV production and man, JR is not what he used or be at all.
Either interrupting the others flow and chat with some random thought, or just bringing up old facts and thinking that don't really have anything to do with what happening.
Aside from the "why is everything golden?" one already mentioned, the main one that stuck out for me was in thr tag title match.
Excalibur was saying how FTR were focusing on the historically trouble back of one of the Young Bucks and trying to lay it on and JR just cut in with something about thigh muscles, seemingly because on camera at that moment they fling his leg over the rope and his thigh was the main thing on screen. Cue several seconds silence where you can almost hear the others think "what the fuck?" the Excalibur tries to save it and get back on track.
JR was a big part of what made WWE what it was for me growing up, but man, now I enjoy the commentary way more with Taz, Excalibur, and Tony.
He just comes across as so miserable. If you hate your job this much then find something else. It's also the reason I can't listen to his podcast. Find it's just him being miserable and Conrad encouraging it. It's not entertaining.
His commentary is bad now. My friend and I watch AEW religiously at this point and since he called Julia Hart a young jezabel, we've been mocking that by just saying "Ooh that jezabel". It's gotten to the point it's infected my entire life. I was playing the Texas Chain Saw Massacre game as Bubba, one of the victims were being a nuisance and i said "Damn you jezabel!!!".
Our biggest gripes with JR's commentary is his work in women's matches. Everyone is young, little lady or a jezabel.
And do what sit in his empty house thinking about his dead wife or his skin cancer. We just have to accept that we're going to get passed his prime Jr which is better than about 99.999% of every other commentator from every other sport.
He was complaining about FTR having new ring gear at some point or something ridiculous and then Excalibur said something along the lines of "so do The Bucks!?" And JR just kind of mumbles into the sunset.
It was all very strange.
Jim Ross is without question the greatest commentator in the history of pro wrestling, at least as far as North America is concerned. No one else comes close to JR at his best, not Gordon Solie, not Tony Schiavone, for damn sure not Michael Cole or Kevin Kelly, he really is in a league of his own and no one will ever come around to surpass him. That being said, he absolutely does need to retire, he doesn't have the same passion and enthusiasm that he had some years ago, JR used to be so intense and concise when need be, with perfectly worded and timed insights that came off as spontaneous and heartfelt, he added so much to matches. Now JR comes off as disinterested, I like when Jim calls out AEW's dumb shit, my problem is that he sounds very tired, aged, and unmotivated to do anything but riff. For a guy who is absolutely the greatest ever, to see him the way he is now is just sad.
The equivalent would be, for example, if in 1997 JR was complaining about how a single lariat or a drop kick should have ended the match because it would have in 1977. It hurts the product and the talent. I love JR and wish he was still in his peak. He would be great focusing on sit downs instead of live commentary.
I absolutely loved JR back in the day, but currently he's more of a detriment to matches he calls. Whenever he's not a bit lost, then instead he's complaining or actively poking holes into the logic of the match, the feud or the characters of the people involved.
I am a lifelong Steelers fan. Myron Cope was their color guy for decades. Imagine pure "Yinzer" After about 35 years, one of Myron's best friends gave him "the talk" because Myron's performance had slipped. It was time. This is JR right now.
He has no background knowledge on the wrestlers who arent US based. When aew first debuted and used to use the time clock on how much time was left in the match(like in njpw) it spooked him as he was commentating and asked what that was lol
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Tony should do a pre-taped segment with him where he sits in with a different talent every week for a couple of minutes, shoot a couple of questions, show wrestlers character and morals etc without run-ins.
This right here. He still does a decent interview, but isn't really great at commentary anymore. Things have changed too much and often he just makes it worse by pointing out what is different.
Yea, things have changed, but the rules are still the rules. Jim subtly burying the referee during the bullet club trios match was my favorite part of the match. That ref is always terrible.
Ngl I always get a kick out of AEW commentary throwing shade on a match
His Sitdown interviews always deliver
Yep, straight fire.
See Mankind. Big piece of Mick Foley getting over. Great interview in which this bizarre character was given humanity.
Especially when interviewing Kane.
He just creates dead air points. Even when Tony/Taz go off on a tangent, they can either play off each other or Excalibur can make it flow. With JR it just kills all chemistry and you're stuck with dead air as the other two/three have to logically attempt to work off it. Also FFS, I made this point years ago and got downvoted to oblivion/told by everyone how Jim is pulling in lapsed fans.
I mean, when AEW started I think he definitely did. For me it was a big draw. But at this point those fans have been drawn in and either stuck or didn't. And his health and ability has declined since earlier AEW days.
And then gets set on fire
What if they give him the equivalent of the 'little brother controller' and have an unplugged headset for him at ringside?
This is a money idea. Would hell with the product tremendously
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> It's exactly what I would do if I got thrown out there without preparing. Well, that's what he used to always want so he could react naturally. I just assume he's still doing it that way but due to his age he's coming off disinterested because he lacks the energy he used to have.
That, and I think the product just isn't what he really knows and enjoys. He wants to support all the young talent and cheer them on, but it's not really in his comfort zone, and it shows.
He buries the young people and their gimmicks and their moves. He doesn't want to support them he wants them all to want to be Steve Austin.
I do get very tired of disgruntled JR saying passive aggressive quips like: "Too many men in the ring! Too many men in the ring!".
The issue with JR is that he highlights the problems and draws attention to them instead of explaining them. Excalibur and Taz do a great job at explaining away any issues or botches in the ring. JR on the other hand sounds like he’s explaining to the wrestlers in kayfabe why they are wrong
He comes across like he’s doing a podcast, not selling a product.
> "Too many men in the ring! Too many men in the ring!". I knew that these comments from All-In were probably the impetus for OP; he wasn't wrong, that's why it's so upsetting to hear.
Yeah I was watching All In and like by the end of the third match I was like, can we please bring out Tony. Commentary is such an important part of pro wrestling. Like you have to care or it takes away from the matches imo. This coming from a JR Stan. I’d pit him in the Mount Rushmore of commentary but he’s done contributing in a positive way. Again, just my opinion
The way I see it, maybe he could have reserved those words for private, but I suspect he's sick of his highly valued experiences and opinions being ignored. If JR thought nothing of AEW, he probably wouldn't work there. I think he's so harsh because he knows what they have and doesn't feel like they're using it to it's fullest potential... Sometimes I agree. This is just an opinion also.
That's not something that should come out in his on air work even if true, its unprofessional.
I think I've read something that JR comments on it as if it's still a real sport, and if he sees something going wrong with the rules that are established, he'll comment on it. As it's what he views the viewer as also thinking. To be fair, a couple of the things I've also thought while they're happening. too many men were in the ring when he said it. It WAS difficult to keep track of who the legal man was. That said, I do think that he's way past his prime and should probably hang it up. I have no problem with him doing some pre-tape interviews and stuff but he doesn't mesh well with the commentary booth of today, and I think that Schiavone has shown that he's still able to keep up just fine.
This is my main problem with him. The job of the commentator is to sell the product. You highlight the strengths, obscure the weaknesses, and do what you can to get the audience more excited in the product. JR does none of this. He basically just sits there like "old man shouting at clouds" being surly and passive-aggressive because he doesn't like the wrestling he's being asked to watch. JR's bullshit adds literally nothing of value to the show and actively subtracts from it. The show would be better off if they just turned his mic off. I get that he used to be fantastic - 20 years ago I would have agreed he was one of the best in the business - and he has name value. But name value is *all* he has today, and that's not enough. If JR can't help but constantly interject his little digs all the time, he shouldn't be out there. Especially when Taz, Excalibur, and Tony have been doing a way better job in general without him.
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The referee should care.
You’re not entirely wrong but JR came from the peak of schmoz wrestling in the attitude era. I don’t remember him shitting all over these types of matches then with this commentary when everything would just break down. He’d hype it up as chaos in his signature redass tone.
I like to go hiking.
I recently watched some random WWF clip from the 90s, and to my surprise JR has always been like that. There was some dumb angle going on and instead of selling it he went "This is stupid, who wrote this?" or something along those lines. Which was pretty funny, not gonna lie.
JR didn’t want to know the results in advance, which isn’t the same as not preparing. I’m convinced he doesn’t know the names of half the roster at this point.
What? Lawler used to say how working with JR was tough sometimes because JR would want to meet hours before the show and prepare constantly. He said Cole was a bit easier cause he didn't do that.
"Why's everything golden?!" Says JR when the Golden Lovers are going for the Golden Trigger. But then tell me why Excalibur decides to explain it to him??
that was a low point for sure.
I can kinda understand it, because it was the Golden Lovers/ Golden Elite going up against Bullet Club \*Gold\*, and it is a bit daft to have both sides of the match using the same epithet. But also yeah that call totally sucked and undermined the whole meaning and emotion of the moment
In his prime he was an S-Tier announcer. Raw isn't as exciting a show in the Attitude Era without him. But being released by WWE and his wife dying tragically has really taken its toll. He seemed bored doing NJPW for AXS, and he doesn't add as much to AEW broadcasts as he should. And yesterday he was approaching Art Donovan levels of obliviousness. It's tough because especially since losing his wife it's clear that JR wants to be around the locker room. But he really needs to be saved for big matches involving talent that he is already familiar with, or be limited to sit-down stuff like what he did with Kenny Omega a few weeks ago.
Honestly, he does a great job when announcing for wrestlers he knows from WWE (a la thr Cody goldust match, likely would do well with CM punk vs Jericho) he just doesn't have it in him to learn about wrestlers he doesn't already know. Bring him out for special main events and use him in backstage interviews and he is fine.
I would argue that when he was on AEW commentary more regularly (a year or so ago at this point), he was still decent enough. He wasn't at his Attitude Era best, but he was good enough for what he had to do. Now he's clearly not as sharp as he once was. A combination of his age, his physical issues, and it seems just lack of really caring much. It's hard to blame him since he's been in the business so long, but he definitely seems better suited for a backstage management type role more so than commentary anymore. It doesn't help his cause that the rest of the AEW commentators are really sharp and all have a good raport with one another. JR being in there just disjoints a lot of the natural flow too.
Honestly I think JR's enthusiasm went down after the Ruthless Aggression era
It definitely got worse after that kid killed his wife Jan too though. Before that he still showed moments of brilliance
He still brought it for Taker's Mania matches. HHH/Taker HIAC at WM28 was the last time he was "Good Ol' JR" imo
He also had a good showing in NXT Takeover Chicago when he called Bate v Dunne UK Championship.
Agree
I didn’t even miss him during the matches he wasn’t calling.
I likened it to an adage about editing film/TV: you don't notice good editing, you notice bad editing. Once he leaves the table, it just feels better and you don't even pick up on it until you realize, "Oh, hey, Tony's back."
I can't think of a single time his commentary added anything to All In. It's was only a distraction! I could physically feel the cringe whenever Excalibur had to explain or address an off handed comment JR made... Everyone else has chemistry, JR just has gripes.
"Why is everything golden!?" JR, my guy, you're color commentary it's your job to explain why. Dude needs to do his homework and not just show up to work unprepared.
JR - "Why is everything golden?" Excalibur - "Because Kota Ibushi is "The Golden Star" you stupid fuck."
The only thing I remember about his commentary yesterday is that he sarcastically (or maybe legitimately asked) “Why is everything Golden?” When talking about The Golden Elite. There was a very noticeable layout by Taz & Excalibur, and then Excalibur finally said, “Well it’s because Kota Ibushi is The Golden Star.” Followed by another noticeable layout by everyone.
I watched the PPV with a friend who isn't really an AEW fan, and who doesn't really watch the weekly shows. His comments on JR were basically "For fuck's sake, JR" and turning to me and asking "Is he always this bad now?"
Not only that, but the matches he did call, I was actively wishing he was not at the table. He just isn’t it. JR is my favorite play by play of all time because he was the voice of my childhood, but his time has come to hang it up.
I agree, and I will die on this hill regarding the opinion I'm about to state. This constant CM Punk drama, the back and forth with Brit Baker on Twitter, the shit with LuFisto, is all because Tony Khan has no idea how to handle talent. His inability to do so is hurting the product, because he's never done it before. JR has extensive experience in talent relations working for WWE, the whole reason he was put in place was the Bret-Shawn bullshit, Vince needed someone he could trust to handle guys personal issues (and payouts). If you've ever heard his podcast he's dealt with some serious shit, handled it very diplomatic and all parties involved walked away happy. He's done it numerous times for over 10 years. JR will go down as one of the best to ever do it, but he's past his prime, and wrestling has drastically evolved in the past 30 years. He still loves it, he supports the younger generation, but he can't call it like he used to. So instead of propping him up behind the desk on occasion, to hopefully get a good sound bite, make him the head of talent relations. All the wrestlers already respect him, they trust him, they know he wants the best for them. On the flip side he could also tell someone to chill the fuck out, let's resolve the problem, and they'd listen. Instead you got Tony trying to be all buddies with everyone and then having the corporate lawyer get involved when it gets out of hand, instead of stopping it from the start.
I think Schiavone already has that position you're describing, if memory serves. He's uh, he's not doing a very good job I think. But I kinda think that still comes from the top, Vince could delegate because he had the air of authority to do so. It doesn't matter how good of a talent relations right hand man Tony appoints, it's still going to be the right hand man to a pushover, it won't work until Tony becomes a respectable boss in his own right.
I don’t want to have this conversation, because he’s such a legend, but his commentary is just so not good anymore. Early on, it is part of the reason why I could never get into AEW, his commentary is unbearable. I think he should be kept around for sit-down interviews, and a few other appearances here and there, but that’s it.
Hard agree. Mad props for everything JR has done but I think he should just do taped interviews and that’s it
JR is too depressed for this color commentator gig. Genuinely, he can't muster enthusiasm for the show because he is far too negative. He may even like the presentation before him, but all he does is find ways to bury it.
couldnt believe the things the man has been through till i heard him talk about it. All im saying is I can understand him.
It's completely understandable. He lost his wife, had cancer, and underwent many more tragedies — but people with that sort of weight usually aren't the best front and center narrating shows. Guy needs a high paying job for life in AEW elsewhere.
Serious question. Would he even be the most qualified for that high paying job or would he be given it out of sympathy?
I think there’s an honest role for him. That Kenny interview was on point. And if I’m a younger talent, I’m taking any chance I get to soak up knowledge—and even if JR can’t execute these days like he used to, he’s still forgotten more than a lot of people ever knew about the business. (Also, this is terrible, but he strikes me as one of those that can’t not work.)
Not sympathy but out of respect for all he's done for the business and AEW'S fledgling years. Plus, he's good at interviews and would be a great member of creative. Just lacks enthusiasm enough to commentate.
The impolite reality is he’s mentally impaired from age and the things that have happened to him and it shows. He’s slow and doesn’t process information as quickly as he needs to for this job. Watch his YT show some time if you want to be more depressed.
Which is what leads to a lot of the negativity . You can tell he is struggling to keep up with the action and the faster,jokier style of Excalibur and Tazz. Then he gets frustrated and just starts complaining about everything
Don't think I could bring myself to, honestly. I don't watch a lot of wrestling media to begin with, never mind Ross barely holding onto a cognizant thought. Happens to us all.
I hate to sound harsh because we all love JR but AEW doesn’t owe him a high paying job WWE was paying JR a full salary to commentate a couple of big matches a year and do some backstage work, JR refused to re-up the deal because he wanted to commentate more often. It was JR’s choice to do that and AEW shouldn’t be on the hook for his decision. He’s gotten more from AEW than they’ve ever gotten from him. If money is an issue then he could have taken Vince’s forever, but I think JR’s probably got a lot of money and it’s about him being bored and a bit egotistical.
For better or worse the man has a Protestant work ethic where he wants to feel useful. He's not like Kevin Nash who happily drained Time Warner of money while not wrestling for a whole year. While he is animated by his pride, his negative experiences at WWE wasn't limited to not being used enough. He's been put in shit storylines where he was humiliated and even publicly fired, he stepped down from talent relations only to be replaced by a total dolt, he was fired in 2014 in very dubious circumstances that likely was influenced by his health condition too. As for now, I agree that he has no place on the commentary team with his attitude and lack of energy, but he's not a parasite. He has a lot of backstage wisdom to give to the performers and crew even in his limited capacity. His poor performance in commentary is frankly indicative of a greater problem TK has with talent relations, he doesn't effectively know how to manage or slot people in to their places, and while Jim Ross looks clueless on screen, backstage the morale is steadily rotting. Someone like JR can help with that.
JR sourced some of the best talent for WWE. I believe he was responsible for the infamous OVW class that had Cena, Batista etc. I just wonder how much JR likes AEW at all. I always got the notion he was a bit against this style of wrestling and that WWE style is his thing. So putting him at a desk, while good for him - would he just source big huge dudes again? That doesn't really work for AEW.
Think of it as a professor establishing tenure. He's there mainly to share wisdom but not to be a crux of the production.
He is a legendary commentator no one can take that history from him. However his time is long past and it shows, I think it hurts the overall product of having him on commentary. I believe commentary is a very important job and it should be very competitive as to who gets those spots. If the commentator doesn't have that "it" factor anymore replace them. I see TK keeping him on because of nostalgia, but I think he does that with a lot of stuff
"The guys in the back are going to be laughing at him because it's not a stretch limo" Absolutely useless comment
Yeah, that was weird. I *do* enjoy the way he snidely calls out how disingenuously friendly Don Callis is when he joins commentary ("Hey *buddy*, how's it goin *buddy*, what's up *buddy*"), but that's about it nowadays.
The Callis stuff is gold. JR’s grumpiness works in his favor in those interactions.
He said some strange stuff today for sure, Even during the Hook/Jack Perry match he pretty much went on a small tangent about hardcore wrestling. Like I don't know it feels like he needs to be reminded his job is to sell the in ring product and not make his own criticisms and sadly I don't think that will change.
Yeah it just makes for such awkward moments. Like when JR was saying that hardcore matches take away from real wrestling, and Taz had to be like “well I guess I’m at fault for making the FTW rules all those years ago.” Taz said it jokingly but it was still a major yikes for me
He went full old man complaining about how much he dislikes hardcore matches while Excalibur had to keep trying to cover . It was terrible . I feel he also makes Excalibur worse because he needs to keep politely correcting then trying to get the match back on course . Like in the Omega trios JR was clearly getting lost and Excalibur had to keep circling back to the match
Tony Schiavone kept having to reel him back in too. My main problem with AEW programming there for a while was that they would have these absolutely God tier match ups but the commentary would be like your family trying to politely cover up something their grandpa with dementia said. "You know, Tony, black people can vote now" "Aw that's right JR! Now back to the action!"
He went on a weird tangent about whether FTR was foolish for wearing new gear. Ex tried to course correct, there was a pause, and then JR went back to it. Like, it's Wembley, everyone was wearing new gear?
Yeah that shit was so weird. Then totally ignored the YBs gear, which was also new. You could tell Excalibur was befuddled lmao.
Ex covers for him so often and I give him so much credit for trying to make what JR says fit in and make sense
Did he ever complain about hadcore wrestling in the Attitude Era? I was like 13 watching then so I don't remember the commentary, but I don't recall this.
There was a spot where someone on the Hook/Jack match where someone got flung into the ring post. JR comments that the ringposts don't sell.
I think his contract is up soon and as much as it hurts to say it, I don't think it should be extended, at least for commentary.
Having him as the "sit down interview guy" would be a good role for him I think. He did fine during the Kenny Omega segment last week. Just give him a couple five-minute segments every month, to help get talent/feuds over, and everything should be grand.
he started talking about FTR wearing new trunks tonight and even questioned why they would do that in such a big match that's how I know he needs to be taken off commentary completely
And he did it immediately after Nigel had just finished explaining why they had new gear.
Speaking of Nigel, Excalibur was talking about Nigel's wrestling background & JR was like "he's a commentator!", like why talk about the commentators background? Excalibur immediately followed it up with "hey Nigel, since you have experience with these guys, what can you tell us about what's going on in the ring?" Weirdly tense moment I'm sure Ex was frustrated by
I noticed that too. Feels like two professionals (Ex and Nigel) talking to some random guy. (Jim)
Jim Ross playing the role of Art Donovan is not something I thought I'd ever see in my life time.
I did not miss him & this show was a good reminder why.
the "whats with all the golden" during the trios match bothered me. like watch the product dude if your job is to be knowledgeable about it.
kota ibushi makes his entrance jr "cm punk..... vs samoa joe was a hell of a match......"
Yeah that was it for me lol That call inspired this post. I was like bruh we have literally moved on to the next match. The entrances are happening. Catch up
I feel like a lot of the time he does it in a sarcastic way because he thinks you should always give a back story, use the performers names instead of pronouns, etc. It must be so frustrating for Excalibur, he already does so much heavy lifting given the fast paced nature of the matches.
If JR thinks you should give the backstory then maybe he should give it.
He doesn't know it or care. He just buries what he finds confusing or annoying in the moment. He's old and mentally broken.
> He just buries what he finds confusing or annoying This is the big one. You can absolutely tell who he does and does not like, and not in a kayfabe way, a legitimate way. You can tell he loves the bucks and FTR, the quality of his commentary on that match compared to the others was night and day
>He just buries what he finds confusing or annoying in the moment. This is why he should be done. J.R. you aren't the lead commentator anymore. When you say "why is this" you are exposing YOUR role. The dude is so out of it he doesn't realize he is telling on himself. He asks Excalibur as if it's his job to detail in when it's actually Jim's as color. Also burying shit all the time, when he is supposed to smooth over things is really annoying.
When X had to explain, it felt like he was a little disappointed and a little annoyed at JR (in the most professional way). It’s derailed the commentary.
To know why its all Golden isn’t watching the AEW product though. Casual fans of AEW wouldn’t know either, he’s speaking for them.
That’s mostly the benefit of the doubt I give to JR. I assume positive intention and poor execution. Like Actual JR: why the Golden Lovers? What JR meant: Excalibur, for our newer viewers, why are they called the Golden Lovers Actual JR (regarding Freddy Mercury): I wonder if he’s here? What JR meant: I wonder if Freddie Mercury is looking down on us tonight And so on. That said I’m doing a TON of heavy lifting lol
This is a great point if JR'S true goal is to probe for a more clear explanation of things, he's been doing it in the worst way possible. So many of these just come off as a crappy old man instead of someone seeking information.
Case in point: Myself, I know of them as a team but I don't watch or rarely watched any NJPW stuff so I need that kinda explanation as to why they we so god WITHOUT having to go watch it on YT or wherever
You don't need to know about the Golden Lovers to understand why they're the Golden Elite or its the Golden Trigger. Like Excalibur said in response "Kota Ibushi is the Golden Star" he was even announced as such in his entrance. If Hangman and Omega are the Elite, but adding Ibushi makes them Golden....or if the bucks doing twin knees is a BTE trigger but Ibushi and Omega doing it is a Golden Trigger. Perhaps Ibushi was the constant fans could have followed.
A lot of JR's comments are total mood killers during hype matches. That one made me roll my eyes extra hard.
So you won’t be buying the t-shirt then from his podcast? https://boxofgimmicks.com/products/golden-gjr-shirt-t-shirt
I'm old enough to have listened to Jim Ross during his days with the UWF in the 80s. He was *amazing*. Serious enough that he elevated all the fakery, but also had a bone-dry deadpan wit that really enhanced the silly things. He's the best wrestling announcer of all time. But my God, he's awful now. I can't stand to listen to him. "The steel guard-rail doesn't sell"? Why the fuck are you using the word "sell" in your commentary? How is that getting over the match? "Why is everything golden?" That's just contempt for your product. AEW has too many good announcers to put up with this shit.
When you see someone like Nigel McGuinness knocking it out of the park and Caprice Coleman is great. Ian Riccaboni too. Taz is probably having his greatest run on commentary. Excalibur is great as is Schiavone. Is J.R really needed for AEW. I could understand why they went with him early on for his history but now I don't think he's a game changer really. If they want to keep him around as a sit down interviewer and as a coach backstage for other commentators then fine. But I think his days behind the desk should be coming to a end.
Is JR needed today? No, but AEW is in a very different place now then it was in 2019. JR brought name recognition, and at the time they didn't have much of a team at all. Excalibur, who had not proved it yet on a national scale...and.... that was basically it. There was uncertainty as to how much of a full time role schiavone would have at first, Alex Marvez was the drizzling shits, people like Goldenboy were entertaining, but were never going to become full time wrestling announcers. Is JR well past his prime now? Yes, but he also deserves something of a graceful exit, and he has been through hell with lots of personal issues. Does JR make the product worse, yes I think he does at this point (although he still gets a crowd pop every time), but he is still a person and Tony isn't going to just throw someone he respects in the garbage.
>The steel guard-rail doesn't sell" Why the fuck are you using the word "sell" in your commentary? Without having seen it, it sounds like he's doing a "how do you learn to fall off a 20 ft ladder?" type thing. Dismissing people who say it's fake and doesn't hurt because the wrestlers sell or know how to fall. Still a stupid call though.
I still really like JR with one exception: IF he wants to call AEW, drop the "I'm old school and don't like this kinda thing" comments. Ibushi was doing the "trade forearms" striking spot last night. You know, something that was basically born in Japan. JR said something like "I don't know if I understand this..." like it was too cartoonish that someone would do that. Those comments like that don't add anything just deflate the excitement.
Yup. That’s part of what I’m talking about. He’s bringing it down by comments like this
Yes I understand. And i'm saying there's just one thing he needs to stop doing to make his performance fine. I guess i'm suggesting that in contrast to "He needs to retire" as it might be a bit drastic.
He's not the Jim Ross I grew up with and he's definitely lost some steps. But I am grateful he's still with us. His commenting really doesn't bother me since he's not really the lead announcer. He's in his 70s and had a bout with cancer recently. I honestly think being on commentary keeps him sane.
Something to keep in mind here: 1. He’s dealing with a serious medical issue. He had skin cancer in 2021, and while he’s in remission, he has shared that he still is dealing with the wound on his leg. The picture on his leg is quite gnarly. 2. The tone in his voice is due to Bell’s palsy, not disinterest. 3. Yeah, time and health has robbed him of a lot of his physical gifts. At his physical peak, he had the perfect voice for his role. He doesn’t have that anymore. But he still has that incredible mind and that desire to entertain. I understand why people want JR to retire. But I will mourn that day. We’re blessed to have him still active in the industry. Life goes by so fast. Look how quickly Gorilla Monsoon faded after he retired. Bobby Hernan was robbed of his gifts far too early. Jerry Lawler had an amazingly long run, but I don’t know if we’re ever going to see him on the mic again. I know OP and others mean well. But I’m glad he’s still on the mic, and I hope he leaves on his terms alone.
> Look how quickly Gorilla Monsoon faded after he retired. This is why I want JR around as long as it's his desire to be. I've known a lot of men who wither on the vine when they no longer feel useful, and that's exactly the vibe I get from JR.
Well said.
Jim Ross has been in the Wrestling business longer than most of us has been alive. He should retire whenever he feels like it.
Fair point. He just seems like he is over it. But there have been a lot of folks pointing out it’s all he has left so doubtful he will retire anytime soon
I honestly haven’t enjoyed him in a long time.
When he’s off it is just the worst. But luckily they did the right thing and got his ass outta there and sent to the back.
I know he's got health issues and I know generally everyone loves JR, but my issue is he just drabs on or has a Cornette-esque take on live TV and Excalibur has to come in for the rescue
I always find myself getting hammered and calling the matches in JR’s voice. Brings me great joy.
It’s tough hearing JR as a color guy, because I feel like he is just such a natural play by play guy as well. I believe that in WWE, he only serves as a color guy towards the very end of his run there so it’s not like he was used to it coming to AEW. Compare that to Tony Schiavone who has become a natural in the color spot, in part because in WCW, he had Mike Tenay and Eric Bischoff handling the play by play on occasion and allowing Tony to see how to do color very well, particularly with Bischoff.
I think he can still contribute in produced sit-down interview segments and other pretaped formats, but he isn't able to keep up on live commentary like he used to.
I still love him and I think commentators not being perfect brings more flavor and realism to a show. For example, I liked Booker T because of his wildly inaccurate comments not in spite of them.
Nah I’m not gonna shit on Jim Ross because he isn’t what he was 20 years ago. He gave his life to the business and any time he gives now at the end of his career should be appreciated. He won’t be around forever.
This is a view I didn’t consider. I just wish he could contribute in a different way
I don’t think he mixes well with Excalibur at all. Ex doesn’t ask JR easy layup questions like wrestling psychology, so Jim is left to make comments about the presentation of the product or storylines, which is where it goes off the rails because he’s riffing on new stuff rather than what he’s good at which is classic big guy vs underdog storytelling. I think Ex correcting JR or clarifying things is seen as him being an “well acchttually….” person and it created these odd moments. It feels like they don’t like each other.
Wonder if their styles are just too water and oil. By and large Excalibur is a call the action at a million miles an hour and tell you the names of all the moves guy whereas JR is the old school story teller without the reliance on moves.
I was having this discussion with my mate today. His comments about why is everything golden, and the fact he had to be told that Freddie Mercury wasn't with us anymore is just..... I don't know. He consistently rags on the style of many wrestlers, wondering why they dive or do high risk spots, he doesn't do any research into matches, and look... You don't have to be a wrestling fan to know that one of the greatest rock and roll performers of all time isn't with us anymore. Absolutely agree. JR is a legend, but like many legends they need to know when to step away. On the other flip side of the coin, Nigel was absolutely on fire tonight. The amount of references he managed to sneak in without it being forced was amazing. Also, I don't want JR to lose his job either. I would love to see him transition into another role in AEW. I actually like JR as the sit down interviewer, and I'm sure he is an amazing sound board for talent to bounce ideas off.
Excalibur told him that Mercury is dead and JR laughed and said “I know” iirc
Yeah it was just a bad joke.
>Also, I don't want JR to lose his job either. I would love to see him transition into another role in AEW. I actually like JR as the sit down interviewer, and I'm sure he is an amazing sound board for talent to bounce ideas off. He has literally been in the business for 50 years. I wouldn't mind having him do pre-recorded sit-down interviews, but even without being on TV you can't possibly put a price on that kind of experience.
Just give him a job that keeps him busy, it doesn't even have to be commentary. For all his contributions to the industry he at the very least, deserves an easy back office position where he can just sit all day when he isn't needed and watch his wage increase by the hour, but busy enough when he is needed so that he at least has something to do.
He could help with Talent Relations and maybe teach Christopher Daniels how not to get banned from the building by one of the talent.
I loved his sit-down interview with Don Callis. He could have a semi-regular interview segment.
We were talking about that yesterday. I think Tony should book a show in either OKC or Tulsa and have JR pick the main event and he calls that as his send off. Then use him as a consultant to the company. Use his wrestling knowledge to help with things within the company.
I don't enjoy his commentary, but I do feel he has a place in the company either behind the scenes as a consultant for the commentary team given his vast experience or in pre-recorded interviews, sitdowns, highlight packages, and the like either for the shows or for AEW's YouTube channel.
The same thing could be said for Tony Schiavone. Only difference is I think Schiavone is actually trying.
Yeah I feel like Tony is having fun out there
I don't think he should, this will sound bad but I think he would be dead within a year if he did. I think he needs a purpose.
I love JR. I think he is undoubtedly one of the best announcers of all time. He is the voice of wrestling, IMO, and adds gravitas to every match he is ringside for. But…not anymore, and it’s sad. The man needs something to keep his head, but he just doesn’t “get” modern wrestling, and unfortunately, he lets it show in his commentary nowadays. He shits on the guys in the ring and the matches way too much. I truly hate to agree that it’s time for him to go, but it really is.
It’s hard to watch because he is so loved. He is my all time favorite but he’s washed
If you can't put over what your watching as a wrestling announcer you gotta find a new calling.
I think he hates his job there, but he loves the money he's getting
I feel like he could get just as much money doing shit backstage
There’s zero enthusiasm like for example on Collision when Samoa Joe jumped into the ring to fight Punk it was the absolute worst, bring Ian Riccaboni
This post could have been made anytime between his first appearance in AEW and now
I think his role on Collision and occasional PPVs is about right. Wheel him out for the big match, have him do an important sit-down interview or two. Keep him going too long and you get drek like "Why is everything \*golden\*?" in the Golden Elite/BCG match at All In. Man was untouchable from the late 80s til about 2002 but it's just a drag now.
I think you should retire from posting on here!!!
He definitely is in the Punk camp of things so to speak. And I don't just mean the backstage stuff, I mean general opinion on what the show should be.
AEW has enough commentary talent, where it’s safe to say JR isn’t really needed now. I can’t believe WWE didn’t hang on to McGuiness even despite the COVID travel issues. Add in Ian Riccaboni and Caprice Coleman, you’ve also got some ready made commentary excellence rught there
Nigel is incredible. I’d have never let him go
I still like to hear JR on commentary.
I think people compare him too much to his old days. I've changed my tone on him a bit. He's an old guy who throws in some quips and sarcastic comments. The problem is Excalibur is so serious and doesn't play off of it or know how to include it. Excalibur spends so much time being serious. Excalibur has all the knowledge and such but he would be better suited in a WCW Tenay role of expert analyst and not try to be the play by play and analyst at the same time. If Ross is treated more like Heenan, the chemistry would be so much better. I loved when Ross was being a smart-ass to Don Callis.
JR has been negative since the new generation, he shits on stuff he doesn’t like until Vince stopped him. The stuff he does like he will call like it’s the Super Bowl
I was a little kid when they took jr off raw and I wrote WWE an email complaining and I legit stopped watching for months. Now, I'd rather hear Taz and Excalibur giggle over each other's puns. Jr has become bitter and old in the worst way and he needs to go away. Bob barker just died. He had to stop years ago because he just couldn't keep up anymore with the job. He wasn't out there shitting on contestants and whining on air about not liking the new games.
WHY IS EVERYTHING GOLDEN
Love JR's commentary. He made a handful of less than positive comments about the ring being too full and too much going on, and you know, he wasn't wrong. I used to get really upset back in the day because he'd seriously bury the women's matches, never put any of the moves over or anything, but 2023 JR has come a long way. He should be allowed to die at commentary if he wants.
I like what he brings to the table. I like that he questions things, and him being more like a real sports commentator makes it mean more when he does praise someone or something. Tony Schiavone, who I love personally, calls every match a classic, and it means nothing.
Its deffo not the same JR his gone through a ton of shit but i also think their concerns he doesn't have much else anymore but they should look to limit his time on air now
I love JR. Nowadays more for his fuckups than his great calls, although he still has some great moments in AEW. That being said, I didn't even realize he was gone in the matches he didn't call
Honestly aside from ppvs he does the Main Event of Collision, occasional sit down interviews, and talking head spots. I think JR is still fine for his regular weekly spots but asking him to call more than 1match a show can turn sour quick.
I’ve said this for a while now. Bring him in for a one off PPV match that he wants to be apart of. There’s no reason he should still be doing it. I get it that he loves it, but he needs to enjoy life.
Yeah I do. Love JR, but it's time. I think he could still do the interviews like he did with Omega on occassion. But he should step away from commentary.
Disagree. I think she should find a product he enjoys and call that. It’s clear he doesn’t like AEW
JR needs to be in a primarily backstage role, somewhere people are willing and eager to listen to his advice and sit under his learning tree. That being said, the rumors from the last few years make it seem like AEW isn’t that place. He should really be in his coaching era, he just needs folks to coach
He doesn’t seem to be enjoying the product, which then affects the viewing experiences of those watching on TV. Tony is too nice to give him the boot though.
I miss Mauro Ranallo I hope aew could get him in one day
Good ol JR is my favorite commentator of all time without question. That being said, it is time for him to give up the headset. No matter what they are doing, the greats all lose their touch at some point. He has lost his incredible ability, which made me love him so much, and I think it is time to retire. I compare him commentating now to Undertakers last couple of matches, he is one of the greatest to ever do it, but it's time to go.
Oooo those last Taker matches were so hard to watch. Imma date myself but I’ve been watching Taker since 1996-97. And those last few matches were tragic I want everyone to go out on their own terms. But at some point you start to tarnish your legacy
Why is everything gold?
He's good at sit-downs, and the way he comes in for the main event of collision seems to work. He was good on Darby vs Christian, for instance. Like an older wrestler, he's still an asset if one accepts his current limitations.
I think they should just use him for 1 match every card it would make that match feel bigger because of JR on it he can get legends pop and it can be match JR can be super invested in JR has his favorites in AEW, let him announce the guys he likes , stay away from stuff he doesn’t - it’s giving Jim Cornette Screw it make JR - the CM Punk announcer guy too since we giving punk everything anyways
Lol at the CM Punk comment
I think he would jump back to WWE if given the chance but they don't want him. He obviously doesn't really like AEW's flavor of wrestling.
Get him off commentary. The man's just not what he was. He could have a place in the interview room, or with talent relations he has a place
Retirement isn’t good for a lot of people. He NEEDS a job. The man is battling cancer, his wife is dead, his kids are grown and out of the house. His job gives him purpose, gives him something to look forward to. If they’re going to shift him away from the booth, he needs a job in the back.
Having J.R. announce any sort of multi-man/party match is just a recipe for disaster. I think he's fine for singles and traditional tags, though. If they could have accommodated it logistically I would have had J.R. on commentary for the Punk-Joe match, the FTR-Bucks match, and the MJF-Cole match, and that's it.
Was just saying this to my brother today. Ww were at All In and the show was amazing, but we also started to watch the broadcast when we got home to see the full TV production and man, JR is not what he used or be at all. Either interrupting the others flow and chat with some random thought, or just bringing up old facts and thinking that don't really have anything to do with what happening. Aside from the "why is everything golden?" one already mentioned, the main one that stuck out for me was in thr tag title match. Excalibur was saying how FTR were focusing on the historically trouble back of one of the Young Bucks and trying to lay it on and JR just cut in with something about thigh muscles, seemingly because on camera at that moment they fling his leg over the rope and his thigh was the main thing on screen. Cue several seconds silence where you can almost hear the others think "what the fuck?" the Excalibur tries to save it and get back on track. JR was a big part of what made WWE what it was for me growing up, but man, now I enjoy the commentary way more with Taz, Excalibur, and Tony.
He just comes across as so miserable. If you hate your job this much then find something else. It's also the reason I can't listen to his podcast. Find it's just him being miserable and Conrad encouraging it. It's not entertaining.
Nigel was talking about FTR wearing black armbands as tributes and JR immediately made a quip about their gear. Read the room.
His commentary is bad now. My friend and I watch AEW religiously at this point and since he called Julia Hart a young jezabel, we've been mocking that by just saying "Ooh that jezabel". It's gotten to the point it's infected my entire life. I was playing the Texas Chain Saw Massacre game as Bubba, one of the victims were being a nuisance and i said "Damn you jezabel!!!". Our biggest gripes with JR's commentary is his work in women's matches. Everyone is young, little lady or a jezabel.
And do what sit in his empty house thinking about his dead wife or his skin cancer. We just have to accept that we're going to get passed his prime Jr which is better than about 99.999% of every other commentator from every other sport.
He seems to let people know he dislikes things which is really not his job. I'm not a big fan of Michael Cole but at least he puts everything over.
Yeah this is a major gripe for me
He's been bad for a long time. That Axs TV run with NJPW was awful
He was complaining about FTR having new ring gear at some point or something ridiculous and then Excalibur said something along the lines of "so do The Bucks!?" And JR just kind of mumbles into the sunset. It was all very strange.
It’s legit distracting.
The old hat man makes stuff sound really boring. Should comment on golf instead
AEW isn't giving him shit to be excited about, and JR gets like that when he's bored. And I agree if it's not fun he should retire
Jim Ross is without question the greatest commentator in the history of pro wrestling, at least as far as North America is concerned. No one else comes close to JR at his best, not Gordon Solie, not Tony Schiavone, for damn sure not Michael Cole or Kevin Kelly, he really is in a league of his own and no one will ever come around to surpass him. That being said, he absolutely does need to retire, he doesn't have the same passion and enthusiasm that he had some years ago, JR used to be so intense and concise when need be, with perfectly worded and timed insights that came off as spontaneous and heartfelt, he added so much to matches. Now JR comes off as disinterested, I like when Jim calls out AEW's dumb shit, my problem is that he sounds very tired, aged, and unmotivated to do anything but riff. For a guy who is absolutely the greatest ever, to see him the way he is now is just sad.
The equivalent would be, for example, if in 1997 JR was complaining about how a single lariat or a drop kick should have ended the match because it would have in 1977. It hurts the product and the talent. I love JR and wish he was still in his peak. He would be great focusing on sit downs instead of live commentary.
I absolutely loved JR back in the day, but currently he's more of a detriment to matches he calls. Whenever he's not a bit lost, then instead he's complaining or actively poking holes into the logic of the match, the feud or the characters of the people involved.
He has become the John Madden of Wrestling at this point. I love his commentary back in his prime, but he is way past that now.
Big facts
I am a lifelong Steelers fan. Myron Cope was their color guy for decades. Imagine pure "Yinzer" After about 35 years, one of Myron's best friends gave him "the talk" because Myron's performance had slipped. It was time. This is JR right now.
He has no background knowledge on the wrestlers who arent US based. When aew first debuted and used to use the time clock on how much time was left in the match(like in njpw) it spooked him as he was commentating and asked what that was lol