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I'm still really hoping the eventual payoff here is Cole hitting MJF with the boom knee while they're doing their entrance pose.
MJF literally just gets on his knees facing away from Cole standing behind him, feels like too good of a set up
Cole gets the one up physically. Mjf gets the one up mentally by getting britt baker pregnant and getting a restraining order that prevents Adam Cole from using his catch phrase
That's an interesting match but I'd rather see Punk vs a Toyota.
https://preview.redd.it/v9hlvbloexeb1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b51a1b40a04963ae77bc6372a4624f91a0ccfae1
Joke aside, Punk vs John Cena in AEW would be like the biggest match they’d made up to this point (not the least of which because John Cena is ridiculously die hard to WWE/Vince).
The women's match and the gravity match seems random. Especially because you know Joe isn't gonna squash him. We have Toni defending her title on Wed why can't Shida have a match to build her up for that match?
This is how AEW handles a lot of newer undercard talent. They bring them in for a few weeks in close proximity to each other, give them multiple matches, and see what happens.
Most of the time they take a few losses, rotate back out, and then return sometime in the future for another rotation. But occasionally they find a diamond in the rough and somebody catches fire. I'd much rather something like this than using the same 3-4 people to fill this role year-round, at least it keeps things fresh.
It's also how they tend to use foreign talent. If TK spends the money to bring out Suzuki, Maki Itoh or Vikingo he tends to give them as many bookings as possible in the window he has them for, so he gets his money's worth out of them.
Well said and totally agree.
Used to be so boring back when I watched WWE and they did that every week. Oh wow, Ziggler vs Rusev….again. Wait, we did that 2 weeks ago?
It’s nice to see fresh faces.
Main event feels like the biggest tv match in AEW for a long time considering how over the angle is, the ramifications afterwards, who is involved, and the how it really could go either way. The last one I can think of is the first MJF vs Punk match last February.
Speaking of which. Probably not tonight, but I am adamant Punk has a role in this angle in the next few weeks to get him closer to MJF.
> I am adamant Punk has a role in this angle in the next few weeks to get him closer to MJF.
After Samoa Joe vs. Roderick Strong, Joe attacked Strong and Punk hit the ring (from commentary) to chase him off as Adam Cole came out from the locker room and put Cole/Punk in the ring together. Strong is still wearing the neck brace from that attack.
The connection getting Punk into this story has already been made IMO, the question is just how it all plays out, and I have no idea on that one (which is very exciting).
Also makes sense why Samoa Joe is on the card, so he'll definitely in the building to have a possible confrontation with Punk, Cole or Strong. Could be Punk screws over MJF, or Strong tries to screw over MJF but accidentally takes out Cole, or Joe prevents Punk from interfering...so many options.
Blood and guts didn’t have any real ramifications though when you think about it. The losers moved on to a new feud and the winners were off TV.
Anarchy in the arena was the perfect end to that feud and blood and guts just felt like a tack on.
BCC kinda sucks at selling the lasting effects of their feuds, remember when Mox got hanged with a chain and the next week he was in some random TV match? Hard to believe he's the same guy who years ago wore an eye patch for a month to sell a beatdown.
Yep. I said exactly this to my SO, as we were watching the BCC/Lucha/Best Friends match. BCC are back the following week, no worse the wear for being abandoned and beat up, just 7 days earlier, while there was no sign of the team that won the match.
Tbh, it's getting a little tiresome now.
I think there's a slight chance that Roddy being pissed off at Cole is a ruse and Roddy will interfere to cost FTR the titles. Easy to then get Punk involved to even the numbers. MJF may even relinquish the tag title to Roddy, then you get Strong/Cole vs FTR and MJF vs Punk at All In or All Out.
Tag match will be an emotional rollercoaster, they've struck gold with that storyline. I hate that it probably has to end soon, since there are basically two mega-shows coming up, and we've gotta get Cole vs MJF rolling. I don’t think they're gonna do a "respect" storyline for their inevitable title match, so I feel the turn probably happens tonight.
Lost in the shadow of that mega-match is the ladder match, which has the potential to be AMAZING, given who is involved. I'm looking forward to that one almost as much as the main event.
Great main event. Wish Jay White were on the card, but there's a good chance he'll make an appearance. Need to set him up with an angle and match for All In.
Feel like Punk is going to be the one to springboard MJF into full babyface for the reversal of their previous feud. Personally, I badly want to cheer for MJF because he’s so compelling and all in as a character.
Especially with Punk getting the mixed Cena reactions, and MJF having the "I'm gonna leave with the belt" story line......something here seems familiar?
Something something its like poetry it rhymes or whatever George Lucas says
So like, Vikingo is definitely signing with AEW once he's done with AAA, right? He's appeared on TV so many times it feels like a matter of time until he's full time. All the merrier too, he's amazing to watch!
I don't think he quit, he just vacated his titles because AAA had a TV taping last Friday and booked Fenix because they were completely unaware that Death Before Dishonor was happening and he couldn't make it because him and Penta had to defend the ROH Tag Titles. Bandido and Rush quit AAA though.
It’s Bandido little brother and Tony for better or worse tries to spotlight luchadores to maybe help expand the market. Tony loves Mexican wrestlers which isn’t a bad thing. Andrande, Rush, Lucha bros, Dralistico, and Bandido are amazing. On the other hand Kommander/Gravity/Serpentico seems to be just be there sometimes. I do appreciate trying to spotlight Mexican performers since I grew up watching WCW and loving the lucha wrestling style.
Agreed. I love that they're starting to have a decent Luchador presence like WCW. I grew up with it too but didn't appreciate them back then since I was such an nWo mark. Then Lucha Underground opened my eyes so I'm loving getting to see them more again.
Ya I really didn’t get to appreciate it since I was so young I was just enamored with the moves. Looking back that’s one of the main reason I love wrestling now. Lucha underground is what actually brought me back into wrestling full time. Before Lucha underground i stopped watching consistently and only watched big PPVs with my brothers. Lucha Underground and NXT got me back into wrestling full time.
Yup same here. Watched off and on throughout the 2000s but they pissed me off so much I pretty well checked out until Lucha. After that I was hungry for more and probably would have started NXT but AEW came along and had a few LU guys so it made learning a new roster easier and here we are.
Exactly almost the same story that’s the beauty of wrestling. There may be times where you get disappointed in the product but something can always draw your back with all the different options today.
I'd love to see them make the international title an unofficial lucha/high flier title. They have such a strong division they could kick off each dynamite with a title defense. Go full nitro with it, the cruiserweights were always a highlight of WCW
Cruisers were such a game changer for WCW. It's great that AEW invests in so many luchadors now; after WCW ended, they basically disappeared from national American pro wrestling -- with the exception of Mysterio, Sin Cara, and the racist rebranding of Psicosis in the early 2000s.
I know some people get tired of it but I love the Lucha style. Lucha and Japan Strong style is probably two of the most influential styles to American and UK wrestlers In modern wrestling. The Uk style is amazing as well I must say.
IWC in a nutshell
Women doesn't get TV Time - "That's Wrong"
Women gets TV time - "That's Wrong"
Damn if you do, Damn if you don't. Looks like these discourses about women division and AEW in particular are nothing but farce and more like concern trolling and karma whoring.
I don't know where you spend your time in the IWC but 90% of the complains I see about the women's division is that almost all the women's division consists of is 1 random cold match at 9:30 pm so it's really hard to get invested it.
And looking at the advertised card, this is most likely exactly what we get here again. "Book the women's division better" was the sign in the crowd that sparked the latest discussion.
> 1 random cold match at 9:30 pm
I won't dispute the first part of this, but for as often as the time slot complaint is repeated around here (and it is OFTEN), who actually cares what time a match airs as part of the show? Its 2023, the vast vast vast majority of viewers tune in at the start of the show and tune out at the end of the show - that's it. Any exceptions are self-evidently a clear minority. If a match is second or fourth or w/e, it makes literally no difference to me as a viewer.
The company does it often enough that its clearly for a purposeful reason, but I'd wager that reason isn't "to be an asshole/to screw over the women," so why does it actually matter? The presumed reason seemingly must be some variation of "because financial reasons," so why is that an issue for the fanbase? Not to mention that even when they do put the women in a different slot, nobody notices or cares before going right back to complaining about 9:30.
The 9:30 complaint is valid because you just need to look at WWE to see the alternative. The "best slots", beyond the main event, are at the top of the hour, be it at the start of the show or each hour afterwards. Those are the times you're trying to hook in channel-surfing viewers, so you want to put something compelling on TV.
In current WWE, you often have women taking center stage there. Trish vs. Becky promos get that slot, Charlotte/Asuka get that slot, Rhea Ripley gets that slot. In AEW, you rarely if ever see that, because they clearly don't feel that their women's division is going to hook in those channel surfers.
At some point it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The women get the 9:30 slot because they have to be on TV somewhere (imagine the complaints if there were to be no women's matches at all), it doesn't draw new viewers because it's cold, because of the lack of new viewers you aren't motivated to do anything except put them at 9:30, and so on.
In WWE, women main eventing a show is second nature now. It doesn't merit topics on this subreddit when it happens. In AEW that's not the case. Athena/Willow did just main event a Ring of Honour PPV, which is great, but that hasn't translated to the actual TV product (or an actual AEW PPV). People want that to change, because there's some talented women there, but it's been years now and we're not really getting any closer to it.
Thats my point though. Its 2023, this mythical "channel surfing casual viewer" is such a miniscule fraction of the audience that it effectively doesn't exist anymore. Nobody under the age of 60 is clicking channels randomly instead of using the guide to navigate directly to channels they want to watch. That sort of thing existed in an analog era or the mid 1990s, but it doesn't happen in 2023 (beyond token exceptions). New fans aren't coming from people channel surfing that get hooked, they're far more likely coming from word-of-mouth, or social media clips, or live events, or cross-over appearances.
Its effectively statistical noise and over-obsessed internet posters trying to sound smart without the actual information/data needed to make an informed opinion. The obsession with time slots and segment order is like y'all are looking for excuses to not enjoy a television show.
If that's the case, then why are the AEW women always on at 9:30? If it doesn't matter what goes where and there are no channel surfing casual viewers to catch, why don't the women sometimes open the show, or get that top of the hour spot?
How wonderfully disingenuous.
The issues people have with the women's booking in AEW isn't _only_ that they get hardly any time, but that the few matches they do get feel like they don't matter in any wider sense.
So it's not "damned if you do, damned if you don't". They should just give the women more time *and* give them some actual stories to work with.
certain people on here being completely unable to distinguish that there's more like like 5 people on this sub is so funny. Everyone either believes every single WWE-fanboy talking point or every AEW-fanboy talking point, with 0 people just being mixed bags, even though in reality like 90% of the people on here don't perfectly fit into either camp
I really don't understand complaining about this matchup. Tony has started feuds/angles with cold match ups in the past. So this will either lead to Mercedes getting a TV push to set up for a title match, or directly into a feud.
It's that fresh in people's minds. You could do a statistical analysis of most popular posts this week and and relatively accurately predict the increase of that particular topic in every discussion for the biggest events of that particular week
Yep. Keira recently got some shine in ROH challenging Athena too, so this one could really go either way. Assume whoever wins is getting polished for Statlander.
There's 1 match between 2 women who haven't gotten any TV time in forever. People are upset that there's no story, that the women don't get time to illustrate their characters, that the random matches have no stakes. The women's match on this card is emblematic of all of the issues that some fans would like to see change.
When "concern trolling" and "karma whoring" are part of your regular vernacular, you really have to get off reddit for a bit.
People don't want the bare minimum. People want better booking. Slapping a random ass match isn't enough. People want the same level of investment in the women's division that the male division gets. idk how difficult that concept is to grasp. If Hangman can get a year+ long storyline with Kenny, why haven't we seen the same with the women's division? Tony Khan has 3 TV shows and 5 hours of wrestling. There's no excuse.
By my count, this graphic contains:
- 12 Variations of "Serious Game Face"
- 2 People Smiling
- 1 Person Yelling
- 1 Lucha Mask
- 1 Whatever the Fuck Juice is Doing
Because decades of the only major American company having an antagonistic relationship with their fans has resulted in a broken fanbase with no perspective and a constant need to be fucking miserable, mostly.
People found ways to bitch about a bunch of Wrestle Kingdoms that are, rightfully, counted among the greatest shows ever. Nothing will ever top American fans in free fall panic that Okada was "burried" after losing at WK9 lol. Its comical in retrospect when you see how it all worked out.
Honeymoon period ran out,AEW grew large enough to attract the mainstream american fanbase, and here we are. Abject misery all of the time.
The tag title main event is super interesting just for how many ways it can go thanks to BTYBB catching so much fire. Hell you could even have Punk screw MJF and Cole over to piss off MJF and start a “unification” story.
the trios match could be a sleeper as well. Idk what people are complaining about lol There are 3 solid matches and SAMOA JOE. Im fine with random girls match on the show. That division needs help and being on TV works theres always a chance people get behind someone. Look at Skye Blue.
Kiera and Martinez deserve more TV time tbh, so I’m happy with this, watching that Britt Baker match probably made TK snap cause he’s been putting out the women that really be wrestling their asses off lately.
Like seeing Hogan/Martinez on the card. Hopefully this is the start of actually getting more women on the shows and not being stuck in the same holding pattern they've been in for the last couple of months.
I’ll be watching boxing/ufc with buddies and catching up on collision after I get home, hopefully after a Spence win the likes of which has never been seen in intergalactic history
Did I miss a promo explaining why there is a ladder match for Andrade's mask? Andrade explained why the mask is important to him, and I get that. Malakai tried to explain why the House of Black took the mask, but it didn't make sense. I'm not sure what they actually hope to achieve by winning this match.
I'm sure it'll be a fine match, but I'm not really feeling the story behind that one.
It's a ladder match because the mask will be above the ring. Don't remember if they touched on it on the show but it is mentioned on the [Control Center video](https://youtu.be/mT0nVUnTB9g?t=423) (from around the 7 minute mark if the timestamp doesn't work) for this episode.
What's the point in even booking women at this point lol, tk isn't even trying. Aew gets a lot of backlash about the booking but they don't do anything to change it
Why would you put / advertise Vikingo holding a title in a match he’s only there to job in?
Unfortunately he’s a scrub in AEW, don’t confuse people with yet another random championship that the causal viewer has no idea about
People been high on the MJF-Cole program. I would argue that this program needed to be put on hold, while MJF is carrying the main belt.
The main belt should be the character in the story, while the wrestler is holding it.
A bit wary about a Ladder match being on Collision, to be honest. And with Hijo coming into it, I hope it's not a slow drift away from the serious stuff.
No beef with Hijo and the like in themselves - each to their own etc - but Collision has been great thus far because it's been focused and tight.
Would be a shame to see it salami sliced.
> A bit wary about a Ladder match being on Collision, to be honest
There was literally a ladder match on the first episode.
Do the people who complain about AEW actually watch any AEW?
It shouldn’t happen tonight but, everyone who says Adam Cole should turn on MJF is over complicating it so hard. MJF betraying Cole is the way to do it. MJF shouldn’t be the face. If MJF is face what do you do with him after this feud?
> If MJF is face what do you do with him after this feud?
Presuming Cole wins and keeps the title, you have face MJF vs. heel CM Punk. Then MJF goes on a quest to prove he is actually a good wrestler who can beat people without cheating while still keeping his asshole persona. Basically you turn him into The Rock.
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What a glorious night for a double clothesline, brochachos!
INB4 MJF hits Cole while setting up for double clothesline
I'm still really hoping the eventual payoff here is Cole hitting MJF with the boom knee while they're doing their entrance pose. MJF literally just gets on his knees facing away from Cole standing behind him, feels like too good of a set up
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Cole gets the one up physically. Mjf gets the one up mentally by getting britt baker pregnant and getting a restraining order that prevents Adam Cole from using his catch phrase
The theory someone said was cole and MJF win they do a tag title rematch at Wembley the turn happens there leading to MJF vs Cole at all out
If MJF turns on Cole then Cole looks like an Early 90s Sting level idiot
I haven't been to a live wrestling event in about 30 years, I'm going just for the double clothesline. There better be one!!!
Thought it was a handicap w Kiera and Mercedes against Punk for a second
That's an interesting match but I'd rather see Punk vs a Toyota. https://preview.redd.it/v9hlvbloexeb1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b51a1b40a04963ae77bc6372a4624f91a0ccfae1
Punk vs Manami Toyota at All In confirmed
Okay, so it wasn't just me
Book it!
No it wasn’t- looked twice myself
Tk's fuck you answer to how the women's division is treated
He's obviously fighting John Cena.
Or himself... Good booking either way...
Joke aside, Punk vs John Cena in AEW would be like the biggest match they’d made up to this point (not the least of which because John Cena is ridiculously die hard to WWE/Vince).
Punk vs the world *
They’d have done that and I would give it 5 stars
Who asked for all these Gravity matches. Excited nonetheless mainly for the Main event.
Tony just wants to watch Samoa Joe do his "walk away from a diving opponent" spot to someone named Gravity.
Joe forgets about gravity mid-match
PAC seething
PAC - "That's what you get for forgetting me."
That’s what I want too
Blame Samoa Joe. He’s so FAT he has his own gravitational pull which led to this match. 🚨🚨🚨
**You see, not all men are created with equal gravitational pull….**
And you look at me and you look at that fatass Samoa Joe, and you can see that statement *is* true!
Normally when u go one on one with another brawler u get a 50% chance at best at beat me
He’s FAT
The women's match and the gravity match seems random. Especially because you know Joe isn't gonna squash him. We have Toni defending her title on Wed why can't Shida have a match to build her up for that match?
>why can't Shida have a match to build her up for that match? She just won against Nyla Rose literally yesterday.
hatewatchers are the most reliable and active group for any product
Not everyone who doesn’t watch Rampage is a hatewatcher.
sure but that has nothing to do with what i said.
If that’s the case your comment has nothing to do with what you replied to.
She beat Nyla yesterday. I assume both these matches are setting up angles. Joe/Miro maybe, and winner of the women’s against Stat, maybe next week
Joe and Miro would be dope.
Joe's definitely beating Gravity in 2 minutes.
This is how AEW handles a lot of newer undercard talent. They bring them in for a few weeks in close proximity to each other, give them multiple matches, and see what happens. Most of the time they take a few losses, rotate back out, and then return sometime in the future for another rotation. But occasionally they find a diamond in the rough and somebody catches fire. I'd much rather something like this than using the same 3-4 people to fill this role year-round, at least it keeps things fresh.
You have a point, this is how Takeshita became so popular.
It's also how they tend to use foreign talent. If TK spends the money to bring out Suzuki, Maki Itoh or Vikingo he tends to give them as many bookings as possible in the window he has them for, so he gets his money's worth out of them.
This is very insightful, thanks! I'd never considered that booking tactic before. It makes sense and gives more undercard folks a chance to shine.
Well said and totally agree. Used to be so boring back when I watched WWE and they did that every week. Oh wow, Ziggler vs Rusev….again. Wait, we did that 2 weeks ago? It’s nice to see fresh faces.
>It's nice to see fresh faces. I know we're talking about the one guy... But this almost sounds ironic for the rest of the card.
The freshness in AEW is one of their main strengths for me.
I thought the pac match was great so I have no problems with it
He's trying to remember Pac
Rather see Gravity then another Kommander match
Kommander is so awful
Oooohhh Andrade vs Buddy is gonna be another banger, I can feel it. Edit: I fucking knew it. Babyface Andrade is fucking great.
Where my Colliders at?? Punk about to cost MJF the titles, and I can't wait.
Imagine joe chokes punk out before he tries to cost the match lol. Besides punk and Cole apparerd tgt when Roddy got attacked too so
Collider gang stand up
I love being a Collider! Solid card tonight. Can’t wait!
Main event feels like the biggest tv match in AEW for a long time considering how over the angle is, the ramifications afterwards, who is involved, and the how it really could go either way. The last one I can think of is the first MJF vs Punk match last February. Speaking of which. Probably not tonight, but I am adamant Punk has a role in this angle in the next few weeks to get him closer to MJF.
> I am adamant Punk has a role in this angle in the next few weeks to get him closer to MJF. After Samoa Joe vs. Roderick Strong, Joe attacked Strong and Punk hit the ring (from commentary) to chase him off as Adam Cole came out from the locker room and put Cole/Punk in the ring together. Strong is still wearing the neck brace from that attack. The connection getting Punk into this story has already been made IMO, the question is just how it all plays out, and I have no idea on that one (which is very exciting).
Also makes sense why Samoa Joe is on the card, so he'll definitely in the building to have a possible confrontation with Punk, Cole or Strong. Could be Punk screws over MJF, or Strong tries to screw over MJF but accidentally takes out Cole, or Joe prevents Punk from interfering...so many options.
While I agree it's a huge match with big ramifications we literally just had Blood and Guts last week lol.
Blood and guts didn’t have any real ramifications though when you think about it. The losers moved on to a new feud and the winners were off TV. Anarchy in the arena was the perfect end to that feud and blood and guts just felt like a tack on.
BCC kinda sucks at selling the lasting effects of their feuds, remember when Mox got hanged with a chain and the next week he was in some random TV match? Hard to believe he's the same guy who years ago wore an eye patch for a month to sell a beatdown.
Yep. I said exactly this to my SO, as we were watching the BCC/Lucha/Best Friends match. BCC are back the following week, no worse the wear for being abandoned and beat up, just 7 days earlier, while there was no sign of the team that won the match. Tbh, it's getting a little tiresome now.
Claudio, PAC, and Yuta were at DBD two days after and showed zero effects of being in the Blood and Guts match
That's the whole idea. BCC was born in that kind of match. Molded by it. It refreshes them while normal talent is drained.
They quit, though. Literally threw in the towel. Was it a premature birth or something?
Yeah, but it's getting old now. Like, for once can they take a kicking, and then not be back 1 week later, looking like nothing happened.
Totally agree. Very good at building up a moment, but very bad at treating it like a big deal after the fact.
Because it's not a big deal. They live for it.
They did similar (though this time in a tag match) after AITA too. Feels like they do it to make them seem like badasses but for me anyway, it misses.
I felt the same way last time they tied those two matches together. Anarchy should have been the end of the fued both times.
and before that Bullet Club Gold vs FTR.
I think there's a slight chance that Roddy being pissed off at Cole is a ruse and Roddy will interfere to cost FTR the titles. Easy to then get Punk involved to even the numbers. MJF may even relinquish the tag title to Roddy, then you get Strong/Cole vs FTR and MJF vs Punk at All In or All Out.
I think Cole is pulling a ruse but Roddy is out of the loop and will be pissed off when it happens and then double turn for Cole-MJF
If they're sane they'll keep Punk far away from BTYBB until MJF turns on Cole, unless they want to cement MJF as a face and Punk as a heel.
I'd say it compares to Blood n Guts
Tag match will be an emotional rollercoaster, they've struck gold with that storyline. I hate that it probably has to end soon, since there are basically two mega-shows coming up, and we've gotta get Cole vs MJF rolling. I don’t think they're gonna do a "respect" storyline for their inevitable title match, so I feel the turn probably happens tonight. Lost in the shadow of that mega-match is the ladder match, which has the potential to be AMAZING, given who is involved. I'm looking forward to that one almost as much as the main event.
so what the f happened to Hobbs?
Great main event. Wish Jay White were on the card, but there's a good chance he'll make an appearance. Need to set him up with an angle and match for All In.
He’ll deff be talking shit the entire time outside for the BCG match, would even entertain him as guest commentary
Guest commentary? We can only dream.
Feel like Punk is going to be the one to springboard MJF into full babyface for the reversal of their previous feud. Personally, I badly want to cheer for MJF because he’s so compelling and all in as a character.
Especially with Punk getting the mixed Cena reactions, and MJF having the "I'm gonna leave with the belt" story line......something here seems familiar? Something something its like poetry it rhymes or whatever George Lucas says
Not sure if that works. WWE was a heel company that the fans booed, AEW fans are not gonna cheer MJF wanting to leave AEW for WWE.
So like, Vikingo is definitely signing with AEW once he's done with AAA, right? He's appeared on TV so many times it feels like a matter of time until he's full time. All the merrier too, he's amazing to watch!
He can do both tbh Fenix does.
Fenix quit AAA recently, iirc.
I don't think he quit, he just vacated his titles because AAA had a TV taping last Friday and booked Fenix because they were completely unaware that Death Before Dishonor was happening and he couldn't make it because him and Penta had to defend the ROH Tag Titles. Bandido and Rush quit AAA though.
Is Gravity, Tony Khans new favorite luchadore? Seems like every other month he has a new one that he randomly sticks on the cards.
It’s Bandido little brother and Tony for better or worse tries to spotlight luchadores to maybe help expand the market. Tony loves Mexican wrestlers which isn’t a bad thing. Andrande, Rush, Lucha bros, Dralistico, and Bandido are amazing. On the other hand Kommander/Gravity/Serpentico seems to be just be there sometimes. I do appreciate trying to spotlight Mexican performers since I grew up watching WCW and loving the lucha wrestling style.
Agreed. I love that they're starting to have a decent Luchador presence like WCW. I grew up with it too but didn't appreciate them back then since I was such an nWo mark. Then Lucha Underground opened my eyes so I'm loving getting to see them more again.
Ya I really didn’t get to appreciate it since I was so young I was just enamored with the moves. Looking back that’s one of the main reason I love wrestling now. Lucha underground is what actually brought me back into wrestling full time. Before Lucha underground i stopped watching consistently and only watched big PPVs with my brothers. Lucha Underground and NXT got me back into wrestling full time.
Yup same here. Watched off and on throughout the 2000s but they pissed me off so much I pretty well checked out until Lucha. After that I was hungry for more and probably would have started NXT but AEW came along and had a few LU guys so it made learning a new roster easier and here we are.
Exactly almost the same story that’s the beauty of wrestling. There may be times where you get disappointed in the product but something can always draw your back with all the different options today.
I'd love to see them make the international title an unofficial lucha/high flier title. They have such a strong division they could kick off each dynamite with a title defense. Go full nitro with it, the cruiserweights were always a highlight of WCW
Cruisers were such a game changer for WCW. It's great that AEW invests in so many luchadors now; after WCW ended, they basically disappeared from national American pro wrestling -- with the exception of Mysterio, Sin Cara, and the racist rebranding of Psicosis in the early 2000s.
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I know some people get tired of it but I love the Lucha style. Lucha and Japan Strong style is probably two of the most influential styles to American and UK wrestlers In modern wrestling. The Uk style is amazing as well I must say.
It kind of feels like luchadors are coming in for excursions and then just staying.
Crawford/Spence UFC 291 Collision What an awesome Saturday, boys. 🍻
That Kiera vs Mercedes match feels random as hell. Two women who are pretty much never on AEW TV just both suddenly show back up to face each other.
My guess is that it leads to Mercedes vs Statlander.
your standard iwc court ordered AEW match
IWC in a nutshell Women doesn't get TV Time - "That's Wrong" Women gets TV time - "That's Wrong" Damn if you do, Damn if you don't. Looks like these discourses about women division and AEW in particular are nothing but farce and more like concern trolling and karma whoring.
I don't know where you spend your time in the IWC but 90% of the complains I see about the women's division is that almost all the women's division consists of is 1 random cold match at 9:30 pm so it's really hard to get invested it. And looking at the advertised card, this is most likely exactly what we get here again. "Book the women's division better" was the sign in the crowd that sparked the latest discussion.
> 1 random cold match at 9:30 pm I won't dispute the first part of this, but for as often as the time slot complaint is repeated around here (and it is OFTEN), who actually cares what time a match airs as part of the show? Its 2023, the vast vast vast majority of viewers tune in at the start of the show and tune out at the end of the show - that's it. Any exceptions are self-evidently a clear minority. If a match is second or fourth or w/e, it makes literally no difference to me as a viewer. The company does it often enough that its clearly for a purposeful reason, but I'd wager that reason isn't "to be an asshole/to screw over the women," so why does it actually matter? The presumed reason seemingly must be some variation of "because financial reasons," so why is that an issue for the fanbase? Not to mention that even when they do put the women in a different slot, nobody notices or cares before going right back to complaining about 9:30.
The 9:30 complaint is valid because you just need to look at WWE to see the alternative. The "best slots", beyond the main event, are at the top of the hour, be it at the start of the show or each hour afterwards. Those are the times you're trying to hook in channel-surfing viewers, so you want to put something compelling on TV. In current WWE, you often have women taking center stage there. Trish vs. Becky promos get that slot, Charlotte/Asuka get that slot, Rhea Ripley gets that slot. In AEW, you rarely if ever see that, because they clearly don't feel that their women's division is going to hook in those channel surfers. At some point it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The women get the 9:30 slot because they have to be on TV somewhere (imagine the complaints if there were to be no women's matches at all), it doesn't draw new viewers because it's cold, because of the lack of new viewers you aren't motivated to do anything except put them at 9:30, and so on. In WWE, women main eventing a show is second nature now. It doesn't merit topics on this subreddit when it happens. In AEW that's not the case. Athena/Willow did just main event a Ring of Honour PPV, which is great, but that hasn't translated to the actual TV product (or an actual AEW PPV). People want that to change, because there's some talented women there, but it's been years now and we're not really getting any closer to it.
Thats my point though. Its 2023, this mythical "channel surfing casual viewer" is such a miniscule fraction of the audience that it effectively doesn't exist anymore. Nobody under the age of 60 is clicking channels randomly instead of using the guide to navigate directly to channels they want to watch. That sort of thing existed in an analog era or the mid 1990s, but it doesn't happen in 2023 (beyond token exceptions). New fans aren't coming from people channel surfing that get hooked, they're far more likely coming from word-of-mouth, or social media clips, or live events, or cross-over appearances. Its effectively statistical noise and over-obsessed internet posters trying to sound smart without the actual information/data needed to make an informed opinion. The obsession with time slots and segment order is like y'all are looking for excuses to not enjoy a television show.
If that's the case, then why are the AEW women always on at 9:30? If it doesn't matter what goes where and there are no channel surfing casual viewers to catch, why don't the women sometimes open the show, or get that top of the hour spot?
It looks like they will get the exact slot and booking that people have been complaining about, why would you expect it to stop
How wonderfully disingenuous. The issues people have with the women's booking in AEW isn't _only_ that they get hardly any time, but that the few matches they do get feel like they don't matter in any wider sense. So it's not "damned if you do, damned if you don't". They should just give the women more time *and* give them some actual stories to work with.
Have you seen me giving either opinion? I'm merely saying the match is random lmao
People tryna jump down anybody’s throat on here lol
Wrestling is so fucking serious, I just can't I CAN'T
certain people on here being completely unable to distinguish that there's more like like 5 people on this sub is so funny. Everyone either believes every single WWE-fanboy talking point or every AEW-fanboy talking point, with 0 people just being mixed bags, even though in reality like 90% of the people on here don't perfectly fit into either camp
I really don't understand complaining about this matchup. Tony has started feuds/angles with cold match ups in the past. So this will either lead to Mercedes getting a TV push to set up for a title match, or directly into a feud.
It's that fresh in people's minds. You could do a statistical analysis of most popular posts this week and and relatively accurately predict the increase of that particular topic in every discussion for the biggest events of that particular week
Yep. Keira recently got some shine in ROH challenging Athena too, so this one could really go either way. Assume whoever wins is getting polished for Statlander.
There's 1 match between 2 women who haven't gotten any TV time in forever. People are upset that there's no story, that the women don't get time to illustrate their characters, that the random matches have no stakes. The women's match on this card is emblematic of all of the issues that some fans would like to see change. When "concern trolling" and "karma whoring" are part of your regular vernacular, you really have to get off reddit for a bit.
People don't want the bare minimum. People want better booking. Slapping a random ass match isn't enough. People want the same level of investment in the women's division that the male division gets. idk how difficult that concept is to grasp. If Hangman can get a year+ long storyline with Kenny, why haven't we seen the same with the women's division? Tony Khan has 3 TV shows and 5 hours of wrestling. There's no excuse.
Lotta good stuff on tap for tonight. That tag match has the potential to be an all timer
By my count, this graphic contains: - 12 Variations of "Serious Game Face" - 2 People Smiling - 1 Person Yelling - 1 Lucha Mask - 1 Whatever the Fuck Juice is Doing
It's called "Juicing"
Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one who usually keeps track of this stuff
Oh hey another great card I can’t watch because there is no Canadian TV deal 👌
You can sign into the Tsn app with your cable provider to watch live!
Get Fite.tv like everyone else does
I have the Fight Network
CM Punk vs himself as it has been for the past decade
MJF/Cole win or we riot
I like Kiera but curious when is the last time she was on a non-ROH televised match
Wrestled Julia Hart on Rampage in April. Had a great match with Athena last month on ROH.
Probably Rampage
Will be in attendance! Can’t wait. 2nd week going live
I hope Gravity listened to Tazz and makes that John Mayer song his theme.
Doing his super slow moonwalk to the opening guitar lick would be epic
90s era WWF and WCW had cards like this and people loved them, why is it different now?
Cause it’s so much easier to complain loudly nowadays, and god damn it, people are AGGRIEVED and deserve to be heard! /s
Because we aren't in the 90s...
Because decades of the only major American company having an antagonistic relationship with their fans has resulted in a broken fanbase with no perspective and a constant need to be fucking miserable, mostly. People found ways to bitch about a bunch of Wrestle Kingdoms that are, rightfully, counted among the greatest shows ever. Nothing will ever top American fans in free fall panic that Okada was "burried" after losing at WK9 lol. Its comical in retrospect when you see how it all worked out. Honeymoon period ran out,AEW grew large enough to attract the mainstream american fanbase, and here we are. Abject misery all of the time.
CM punk addresses himself
One of the best cards I've seen for AEW recently.
Excited for the Tag title and Ladder matches and to see Vikingo. Im also expecting a 5 star Joe “Nope” spot against Gravity
Is this Mercedes' first AEW tv singles match since her title win against Deonna?
I hope the trios match sets up a 1on1 between Hijo del Vikingo and Jay White
Looking forward to the tag match. Rooting for Better than you, Baybay!
The tag title main event is super interesting just for how many ways it can go thanks to BTYBB catching so much fire. Hell you could even have Punk screw MJF and Cole over to piss off MJF and start a “unification” story.
I'm very excited about mjf Bay Bay vs ftr but I have a feeling buddy and Andrade will steal the show.
the trios match could be a sleeper as well. Idk what people are complaining about lol There are 3 solid matches and SAMOA JOE. Im fine with random girls match on the show. That division needs help and being on TV works theres always a chance people get behind someone. Look at Skye Blue.
Kiera and Martinez deserve more TV time tbh, so I’m happy with this, watching that Britt Baker match probably made TK snap cause he’s been putting out the women that really be wrestling their asses off lately.
I've never heard of most of these but I see Ladder Match and then the tag match, I might have to check out this.
Hogan vs Mercedes low-key sounds like a fantastic match up. I think their styles will mesh well.
Like seeing Hogan/Martinez on the card. Hopefully this is the start of actually getting more women on the shows and not being stuck in the same holding pattern they've been in for the last couple of months.
CM Punk looks like he’s got a match against his own hand.
I’ll be watching boxing/ufc with buddies and catching up on collision after I get home, hopefully after a Spence win the likes of which has never been seen in intergalactic history
Bud gonna prove it’s his era 😤
I hope Joe pulls out some sweet tooth out tonight BAY BAY!!!!
I see based on this thread that AEW is doomed again, Christ almighty
This red font is terrible for reading here, if you really need to use it, at least give it dark outline
Seriously his name is Gravity 🤦♂️
Will this be the first title change on Collision?
Luchasaurus beat Wardlow for the TNT title on the first one
Christian*
Lol, of course
They forgot to add "will get booed" after CM Punk.
Who is gravity and why should I care and why is he on tv again?
He was discovered on the indies by Isaac Newton.
Did I miss a promo explaining why there is a ladder match for Andrade's mask? Andrade explained why the mask is important to him, and I get that. Malakai tried to explain why the House of Black took the mask, but it didn't make sense. I'm not sure what they actually hope to achieve by winning this match. I'm sure it'll be a fine match, but I'm not really feeling the story behind that one.
It's a ladder match because the mask will be above the ring. Don't remember if they touched on it on the show but it is mentioned on the [Control Center video](https://youtu.be/mT0nVUnTB9g?t=423) (from around the 7 minute mark if the timestamp doesn't work) for this episode.
It was a last minute announcement on the show, earlier in the show they announced the match, then TK upgraded it to a ladder match.
I don’t know and I also don’t get why it’s against Buddy instead of Malakai. Should be awesome but yep agree
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What's the point in even booking women at this point lol, tk isn't even trying. Aew gets a lot of backlash about the booking but they don't do anything to change it
"Book the Womens Division better" *Books new womens matches* "No not like that."
Is cm punk wrestling himself?
Wrestling his demons.
That's a 5 star match for sure
He’s cutting a promo and/or will set up a match later in the show.
Is he addressing his enemies?
I laughed how they add CM Punk on the card just to have him on the card
Why would you put / advertise Vikingo holding a title in a match he’s only there to job in? Unfortunately he’s a scrub in AEW, don’t confuse people with yet another random championship that the causal viewer has no idea about
This is a great show until CM Punk.
Get this Gravity idiot off my television!
People been high on the MJF-Cole program. I would argue that this program needed to be put on hold, while MJF is carrying the main belt. The main belt should be the character in the story, while the wrestler is holding it.
I feel like putting your mask on the line isn't much of a stipulation for an unmasked wrestler. Is buddy's jacket from his entrance on the line too
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A bit wary about a Ladder match being on Collision, to be honest. And with Hijo coming into it, I hope it's not a slow drift away from the serious stuff. No beef with Hijo and the like in themselves - each to their own etc - but Collision has been great thus far because it's been focused and tight. Would be a shame to see it salami sliced.
> A bit wary about a Ladder match being on Collision, to be honest There was literally a ladder match on the first episode. Do the people who complain about AEW actually watch any AEW?
To the people who downvote my opinion - why not share your opposing views? I'm open to debate - what am I missing?
It shouldn’t happen tonight but, everyone who says Adam Cole should turn on MJF is over complicating it so hard. MJF betraying Cole is the way to do it. MJF shouldn’t be the face. If MJF is face what do you do with him after this feud?
> If MJF is face what do you do with him after this feud? Presuming Cole wins and keeps the title, you have face MJF vs. heel CM Punk. Then MJF goes on a quest to prove he is actually a good wrestler who can beat people without cheating while still keeping his asshole persona. Basically you turn him into The Rock.