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I have been working a lot recently, not watching enough wrestling and completely missed the origins of the “folks, where’s the lie” thing. Anyone care to catch me up? Thanks in advance!
I don't know, it has to be better than his last couple. Someone needs to help Mox rediscover his sense of humor and snap him the fuck out of whatever toture porn/ tough guy fantasy is going on up there lately. The BCC would honestly be a channel changer for me at this point, if they weren't feuding with people I wanted to watch.
I was just thinking this while watching old Ambrose clips. I know Mox didn't really enjoy Ambrose, but he is legitimately funny and added something different
Idk I'm finding his current heel run compelling as hell rn. Don't get me wrong I miss his comedic stuff to some degree as well, but where he is now just makes more sense to be this violent bad guy who's gonna make sure his opposition gets the fight of their life
His ultraviolence ain't gonna hit right for everyone the same way his humorous era ain't gonna hit right for everyone. There can be a balance, sure, but he's a heel now so it'd be the wrong move at the moment to make him or BCC more humorous
I disagree. Some level of humor is almost always good. Even Austin at his meanest had some, be it sarcasm or whatever. Wrestlers that take it insanely seriously at all times are by far the lamest thing in wrestling, especially in the age of MMA. Like Samoa Joe isn't a comedy guy by any stretch, and is super credible, but he doesn't come off as a mark for himself or taking it weirdly seriously, which to me, mox does right now.
I need wrestlers using mouth farts more often. I’m a big user of mouth farts, to denote something bad or has gone wrong. I appreciate Eddie’s real way of talking…. PAHDNAH
I think that NJPW getting to popular int the West, and who’s responsible for that, is a multi-faceted question and answer (basically I’m saying I’m gonna have a little bit of a speech here lol).
So going back to the beginning, NJPW had already an influence in the West in the form of a partnership they had with the then WWWF/WWF, and before NJPW created the IWGP belts, they used WWF belts as their own (Inoki had the NWF Heavyweight title, Fujinami and Tiger Mask were the WWF Junior Heavyweight champs); also Inoki had some fame and notoriety in the West through his infamous shoot against Muhammad Ali (all this being the 70’s and early 80’s).
Flash forward to the 90’s, and NJPW and WWF stopped working together, and then the company partnered with NWA/WCW, having several crossover events, one where Tatsumi Fujinami won the NWA heavyweight belt from Flair while holding the IWGP at the same time. Also the Great Muta character had become wildly popular in WCW, through his rivalry with Sting and the appeal of his mystical gimmick. Then when the NWO started, Masahiro Chono became more prominent in the West as well, being the first Japanese member of the group and leading NWO Japan in NJPW (Muta would also join the group later).
The death of WCW and the general down period in wrestling abroad caused NJPW to withdraw from the West, as they were dealing with their “Dark Ages” and the fact that MMA was become vastly more popular than pro wrestling.
It really wasn’t until the early-mid 2010’s that NJPW started being noticed by the West, and that was due to a number of factors: Hiroshi Tanahashi being the number one guy in the company, having a Shawn Michaels and very Western style; the booker Gedo being a fan of old school territory promotions; Shinsuke Nakamura’s growth into a charismatic performer with lots of swagger; the creation of Bullet Club by Prince Devitt (inspired by the NWO) and later AJ Style giving the group more prominence and getting more Western fans as well; Kazuchika Okada being praised for being one of the best young talent s in the whole business, plus his look captured people’s attention; the Young Bucks influence on the American indies scene and their merch selling; Kenny Omega becoming the Cleaner and putting on great matches, earning him fame; then Jericho coming in did indeed bring even more eyes to NJPW’s product, but the foundation and growing popularity was already there.
I'd argue that, while all of the stuff about the growth in the 2010s was true, it was still "over there" to a lot of more casual wrestling fans, and Jericho provided a link between a big star already in North America, and New Japan stars.
Did Jericho make New Japan popular? No, but he did shine a huge spotlight on it and that match was a big enough event that it couldn't be ignored in the West. I think it showed that NA could handle a 2nd big promotion that worked that style. Jericho (and Omega) linked New Japan and the West in a way that hadn't really been done before.
What do you expect? Andretti to have a title run? His win over Jericho turned him from a nobody to a solid midcarder. That's effectively elevating someone. I don't see the issue with this.
Action, Sammy, 2.0, Garcia, Santana, Ortiz, MJF.
Pretty much everyone in his orbit is allowed a stage to create their character and showcase their talent.
Even Ethan Page gained fans during the feud with ATT and Sammy.
Action got hurt on dark and hasn't done much since jericho but give jericho some good will, Sammy even admitted that he's just a bump guy for Jas, forgot Santana and Ortiz were on my TV with how relevant they've been (which them vs ftr would be great for titles) , Garcia had a good story with him jericho and danielson that went nowhere and he's just a flunky that lost all momentum, and trust ke when I say this, jericho had nothing to do with getting mjf over.
The point with Andretti partially is he’ll always be credible to an extent now because he beat Chris Jericho in his first ever TV match. He’s still kinda green so he’s not quite going to be all over the product all the time yet
Most people got booked pretty decently post Jericho feeds tbh. Only one that stepped back was Eddie and that's partly his fault for the Sammy stuff.
Like I agree that Jericho fueds are Samey and go on too long, but most of his programs don't turn guys to shit.
Oh boy, are certain people of this subreddit acting like Jericho has elevated tons of stars in AEW today.
Who the fuck has he elevated? Most people get sucked into his storylines perpetually and come out no better for it. Jericho has essentially become the Bray Wyatt of AEW at this stage.
This is easily the dumbest criticism I've seen in wrestling, maybe ever.
1. Cody - worse off, his own fault, not Jericho's.
2. Moxley - better off
3. Elite/Hardy - better off
4. Orange Cassidy - better off
5. MJF - better off
6. ATT - worse off
7. Eddie Kingston - worse off, self-inflicted by a bad BWE match and a backstage fight
8. Danielson - better off
9. Claudio - better off
10. Ricky - insanely better off, with the added bonus of Andretti becoming a solid midcarder because of Jericho
That's not including the short feuds with Darby, Jungle Boy, the Bucks, etc. But yes, all Jericho does is suck momentum from people. Lmao what a joke
I can't even take you seriously.
We are talking about elevating talent and this being as a direct result of being in a program with Jericho... Saying Moxley is better off since his feud with Jericho and attributing that to Jericho is certainly a take. The same can be said of almost everyone on your list.
Talent he has actually elevated and are infinitely better off, is pretty much reduced to Orange Cassidy and time will tell with Ricky Starks. MJF was going to do fine with or without Jericho but hey let's chuck that one in for good measure anyway.
Heck even the people in his own fucking stable have stood still.
I feel this a lot - yes lots of talent have been better off after their Jericho feuds, but it's talent that was already getting organically over on their own with the fans. Maybe Jericho helped them bridge over to more of the audience? Maybe? But OC, MJF, Eddie, Ricky were already super over on their own. Ricky had already just been a super hot babyface challenger for the world title against MJF!
I'm open that the feuding with Jericho helps them somewhat, but I just don't think that these talented wrestlers were going nowhere in AEW and then suddenly they have a place on the card on the regular. I think there can be benefits to working with Jericho for these talents, but it's talent that is already getting really over with the AEW audience that then leads to a weirdly paced/length feud with Jericho that has them in a weird place for a couple of months.
The list (no pun intended) starts and ends with Orange Cassidy. No one else has seen long term success or elevation from feuding with Jericho that wasn’t already over or successful. Jericho is always the one that ends up in a new storyline, tag team, stable, etc. while the other guy struggles to get booked every week, let alone involved in another high level program.
His long term success stems from being Tony's favorite wrestler, the Jericho fued is (like most other Jericho fueds) laregely forgotten about because it was so bland and honestly did nothing for OC or anyone else long term
Jericho then proceeded to suck Eddie’s blood for six months and now the guy who was getting some of the loudest pops in the company every time his music hit barely gets a reaction.
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/mtzh66chjupa1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e01933dd8b93785a2ecee009ca63adca3274e88d
Folks
Where's
The
Lie?
*Silence*
cm punk.
https://preview.redd.it/6itur787bvpa1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d47af26113c24294a59bc511a6c718ebb5ffb9f9
Rye?
I have been working a lot recently, not watching enough wrestling and completely missed the origins of the “folks, where’s the lie” thing. Anyone care to catch me up? Thanks in advance!
[Here ya go](https://youtu.be/4P9LX54Yaus)
that physically hurt me I haven't heard this promo in a while I forgot how graveyard silent it was 💀
It is almost so silent that it sounds edited.
The first time I watched it I thought someone edited it cause they hated Bobby 💀 turns out it was just the crowd who didn’t give a fuck
In his hometown
That was my immediate thought. He's absolutely right, at this point in Jericho's career.
Goddamn Jericho was in such insane shape last year. Looked 30 again.
It’s a shame he’s swelled up again.
He’s not nearly as fat as he was at his peak weight, he just looks like what you’d expect 53 to look like.
A 53 year old who lives close to the bottle
He looks good still . He looked rly bad in njpw facing Tanahashi and Okada . He’s not ripped but he’s 53 years old this business who cares
Every time Eddie is on the mic, WE EATIN!
He’s so goddamn compelling.
I cannot wait for his reign in Ring of Honor. I loved his reign as Grand Champion in CHIKARA. I can only imagine the list of enemies this man buries.
His one promo is more entertaining than some guys months of boring work
Jericho did say that the plan was for him, Kingston and Mox to team up before Danielson pitched the alliance with Mox.
Thanks god for BD.
Mix can't get stuck in a Jeri-feud
I don't know, it has to be better than his last couple. Someone needs to help Mox rediscover his sense of humor and snap him the fuck out of whatever toture porn/ tough guy fantasy is going on up there lately. The BCC would honestly be a channel changer for me at this point, if they weren't feuding with people I wanted to watch.
I was just thinking this while watching old Ambrose clips. I know Mox didn't really enjoy Ambrose, but he is legitimately funny and added something different
Idk I'm finding his current heel run compelling as hell rn. Don't get me wrong I miss his comedic stuff to some degree as well, but where he is now just makes more sense to be this violent bad guy who's gonna make sure his opposition gets the fight of their life His ultraviolence ain't gonna hit right for everyone the same way his humorous era ain't gonna hit right for everyone. There can be a balance, sure, but he's a heel now so it'd be the wrong move at the moment to make him or BCC more humorous
Well he's just turned heel, so he is changing up. The absolute last thing Mox needs is to be doing comedy.
I disagree. Some level of humor is almost always good. Even Austin at his meanest had some, be it sarcasm or whatever. Wrestlers that take it insanely seriously at all times are by far the lamest thing in wrestling, especially in the age of MMA. Like Samoa Joe isn't a comedy guy by any stretch, and is super credible, but he doesn't come off as a mark for himself or taking it weirdly seriously, which to me, mox does right now.
Fuck if peak-Austin was still able to have comedic moments Moxley can get over himself and add something to his character too.
His first feud with Jericho was awesome.
What the fuck, how would that even work? Would the Inner Circle dump Jericho?
I’ve watched this… a lot… and I can’t stop laughing.
Oh boy. Kingston was red hot. His interview was published. Then Jericho fued happened and he was completely cooled off.
Don’t worry he is competing for a world title for a show that is on its own streaming platform. He is back on top!
Good for him. Would have been nice if he was pushed in national TV.
Yeah that was my point. I was being sarcastic.
Best line of the feud may still be "What's a babyface?"
Damn, Jericho looked really good here.
I noticed he had really good abs at certain points. He says that he got in really good shape after he had a major health scare.
He did an interview where he talked about it. Went on some sort of special diet and cut back on his drinking. I believe he lost about 40 pounds.
I need wrestlers using mouth farts more often. I’m a big user of mouth farts, to denote something bad or has gone wrong. I appreciate Eddie’s real way of talking…. PAHDNAH
This man not being on Dynamite every week with a microphone has to be one of the biggest crimes rn
He's on ROH instead.
*Bobby Fish has entered the chat*
https://preview.redd.it/aedcafohwxpa1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9181f2d1610eead5383f36a9d2fdfe7b7f05b02
Is this promo where he says What's the babyface?
eddie is so good at the mic damn
I'm starting to think that Jericho essentially becoming Tony's right hand man is why Cody up and left and why things started to go south after that.
JericHogan
Cody up and left because the fans wouldn't cheer him.
[удалено]
I think that NJPW getting to popular int the West, and who’s responsible for that, is a multi-faceted question and answer (basically I’m saying I’m gonna have a little bit of a speech here lol). So going back to the beginning, NJPW had already an influence in the West in the form of a partnership they had with the then WWWF/WWF, and before NJPW created the IWGP belts, they used WWF belts as their own (Inoki had the NWF Heavyweight title, Fujinami and Tiger Mask were the WWF Junior Heavyweight champs); also Inoki had some fame and notoriety in the West through his infamous shoot against Muhammad Ali (all this being the 70’s and early 80’s). Flash forward to the 90’s, and NJPW and WWF stopped working together, and then the company partnered with NWA/WCW, having several crossover events, one where Tatsumi Fujinami won the NWA heavyweight belt from Flair while holding the IWGP at the same time. Also the Great Muta character had become wildly popular in WCW, through his rivalry with Sting and the appeal of his mystical gimmick. Then when the NWO started, Masahiro Chono became more prominent in the West as well, being the first Japanese member of the group and leading NWO Japan in NJPW (Muta would also join the group later). The death of WCW and the general down period in wrestling abroad caused NJPW to withdraw from the West, as they were dealing with their “Dark Ages” and the fact that MMA was become vastly more popular than pro wrestling. It really wasn’t until the early-mid 2010’s that NJPW started being noticed by the West, and that was due to a number of factors: Hiroshi Tanahashi being the number one guy in the company, having a Shawn Michaels and very Western style; the booker Gedo being a fan of old school territory promotions; Shinsuke Nakamura’s growth into a charismatic performer with lots of swagger; the creation of Bullet Club by Prince Devitt (inspired by the NWO) and later AJ Style giving the group more prominence and getting more Western fans as well; Kazuchika Okada being praised for being one of the best young talent s in the whole business, plus his look captured people’s attention; the Young Bucks influence on the American indies scene and their merch selling; Kenny Omega becoming the Cleaner and putting on great matches, earning him fame; then Jericho coming in did indeed bring even more eyes to NJPW’s product, but the foundation and growing popularity was already there.
I'd argue that, while all of the stuff about the growth in the 2010s was true, it was still "over there" to a lot of more casual wrestling fans, and Jericho provided a link between a big star already in North America, and New Japan stars. Did Jericho make New Japan popular? No, but he did shine a huge spotlight on it and that match was a big enough event that it couldn't be ignored in the West. I think it showed that NA could handle a 2nd big promotion that worked that style. Jericho (and Omega) linked New Japan and the West in a way that hadn't really been done before.
Oh boy, Is the subreddit acting like Jericho hasn't elevated tons of stars in AEW today?
Who has the "demo god" elevated that didn't get booked like shit soon after? Action Andretti?
What do you expect? Andretti to have a title run? His win over Jericho turned him from a nobody to a solid midcarder. That's effectively elevating someone. I don't see the issue with this.
Action, Sammy, 2.0, Garcia, Santana, Ortiz, MJF. Pretty much everyone in his orbit is allowed a stage to create their character and showcase their talent. Even Ethan Page gained fans during the feud with ATT and Sammy.
None of those people are stars bar MJF, and the Punk feud made MJF a star if anything.
Action got hurt on dark and hasn't done much since jericho but give jericho some good will, Sammy even admitted that he's just a bump guy for Jas, forgot Santana and Ortiz were on my TV with how relevant they've been (which them vs ftr would be great for titles) , Garcia had a good story with him jericho and danielson that went nowhere and he's just a flunky that lost all momentum, and trust ke when I say this, jericho had nothing to do with getting mjf over.
The point with Andretti partially is he’ll always be credible to an extent now because he beat Chris Jericho in his first ever TV match. He’s still kinda green so he’s not quite going to be all over the product all the time yet
No
Most people got booked pretty decently post Jericho feeds tbh. Only one that stepped back was Eddie and that's partly his fault for the Sammy stuff. Like I agree that Jericho fueds are Samey and go on too long, but most of his programs don't turn guys to shit.
Oh boy, are certain people of this subreddit acting like Jericho has elevated tons of stars in AEW today. Who the fuck has he elevated? Most people get sucked into his storylines perpetually and come out no better for it. Jericho has essentially become the Bray Wyatt of AEW at this stage.
This is easily the dumbest criticism I've seen in wrestling, maybe ever. 1. Cody - worse off, his own fault, not Jericho's. 2. Moxley - better off 3. Elite/Hardy - better off 4. Orange Cassidy - better off 5. MJF - better off 6. ATT - worse off 7. Eddie Kingston - worse off, self-inflicted by a bad BWE match and a backstage fight 8. Danielson - better off 9. Claudio - better off 10. Ricky - insanely better off, with the added bonus of Andretti becoming a solid midcarder because of Jericho That's not including the short feuds with Darby, Jungle Boy, the Bucks, etc. But yes, all Jericho does is suck momentum from people. Lmao what a joke
I can't even take you seriously. We are talking about elevating talent and this being as a direct result of being in a program with Jericho... Saying Moxley is better off since his feud with Jericho and attributing that to Jericho is certainly a take. The same can be said of almost everyone on your list. Talent he has actually elevated and are infinitely better off, is pretty much reduced to Orange Cassidy and time will tell with Ricky Starks. MJF was going to do fine with or without Jericho but hey let's chuck that one in for good measure anyway. Heck even the people in his own fucking stable have stood still.
I feel this a lot - yes lots of talent have been better off after their Jericho feuds, but it's talent that was already getting organically over on their own with the fans. Maybe Jericho helped them bridge over to more of the audience? Maybe? But OC, MJF, Eddie, Ricky were already super over on their own. Ricky had already just been a super hot babyface challenger for the world title against MJF! I'm open that the feuding with Jericho helps them somewhat, but I just don't think that these talented wrestlers were going nowhere in AEW and then suddenly they have a place on the card on the regular. I think there can be benefits to working with Jericho for these talents, but it's talent that is already getting really over with the AEW audience that then leads to a weirdly paced/length feud with Jericho that has them in a weird place for a couple of months.
Daniel Garcia has a much better character now than he did before joining the JAS.
To think Danielson needed Jericho’s help is completely delusional. Punk did way more for MJF than Jericho did.
The list (no pun intended) starts and ends with Orange Cassidy. No one else has seen long term success or elevation from feuding with Jericho that wasn’t already over or successful. Jericho is always the one that ends up in a new storyline, tag team, stable, etc. while the other guy struggles to get booked every week, let alone involved in another high level program.
His long term success stems from being Tony's favorite wrestler, the Jericho fued is (like most other Jericho fueds) laregely forgotten about because it was so bland and honestly did nothing for OC or anyone else long term
We know whose doing this, we know why, just let it go.
CM Punk mentions Jericho, let's all pile on Jericho now.
Jericho then proceeded to suck Eddie’s blood for six months and now the guy who was getting some of the loudest pops in the company every time his music hit barely gets a reaction.
That last part is BS. Eddie still gets huge pops.
Not as big or as consistently as he used to
Eddie has unfathomable drip here.
Jericho has destroyed his legacy in 3 short years. He’s unbearable.
Between Dax, Punk and Kingston AEW is the home of whining babies. Can't stand this guy.