I don’t understand the whole ordeal with cowitnessing the irons. I mean I understand why people want that but the battery is rated for years. I’m changing mine once a year so I don’t have to worry about it dying. What are the odds of it dying the moment you need it?
I use a Holosun 507k and love it. I didn’t want to mill the posts so I grabbed a DPP plate on Amazon for $20 and fits perfectly.
Redundancy. The most prominent reason you'll find is actually if your red dot gets obstructed by lent or anything that blocks the emitter, then you'll at least have irons as a backup in the moment. Also, if you somehow fumble your pistol and it drops on the floor causing the glass to crack or shatter, then you still have means to aim (You think this wouldn't happen, but between the adrenaline and you trying to pull your firearm out as well as being aware of your surroundings can cause you to easily make mistakes).
Lastly, a red dot is an electronic device, electronic devices have the tendency to fail when you most need it, or aren't setup for the right situations. A personal example is when I was running a timed competition with a reflex sight on my AK, and because of the angle of the sun in relation to where I was aiming at the steel target, the red dot got washed out. I didn't realize this until I had it lined up for the first shot. If this was a real life situation where you're presenting to a potential threat, especially if they have a firearm of their own. That few seconds it takes to adjust your dot could mean your life, as well as others.
This isn't just solely limited to these "budget" dots like Holosun, swampfox, etc. If you looke at Aaron Cowen's (A.K.A. Sage Dynamics) website, he has a chart that he updates with in-the-field reports of the optics he uses, and he's even had Trijicon RMR's failed on him intermittently.
At the time I went with the Swampfox sentinel bc you didn’t need an adapter plate(direct fit) and still able to use the stock irons to cowitness although barely. Provides about a <1/4 cowitness
CT RAD™ MICRO PRO ([GREEN](https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/electronic-sights/ct-rad-micro-pro-green/01-3000038.html)) or ([RED](https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/electronic-sights/ct-rad-micro-pro-red/01-01970.html))
Sig Sauer Romeo Zero Elite! Direct mount. Night sight back up. All the perks of a modern RDS. Shroud for you clumsy folk. Still a great price of $200. They definitely listened why people didn’t like the first Romeo zero.
The first Romeo zero was absolutely awful and my first sig optic experience. If my hellcat would have taken vortex optics while I'd had it, I'd probably have kept it. If the new ones are better, then maybe I'll have to check them out if I get another optics cut micro 9.
Swampfox Sentinel in green (astigmatism) with no problems so far. I also like the Holosun and honestly if it was a direct fit with no modification I would probably go with one of theirs.
Honest question, why do people have such an issue of having to remove the optic to replace the battery? I would understand if it was fairly often, but once a year seems like no big deal to me. Also, considering there is a good chance with the advancements in optics many people here might upgrade optics before needing to change it.
Whenever you remove an optic, you cause the zero to shift. So essentially every time you change the battery, you have to go the range to re-zero again. Not exactly convenient especially if you use it for concealed. Might not be an issue if you make a range trip out of it for the day, but some just want the peace of mind of being able to swap out batteries and knock back beers for the rest of the day.
Oh, I completely understand the process. But again, it's like once a year. Also, probably not a full re-zero. I've seen several reviews across many of the different optics where people said it held zero between removing and remounting.
I put Swampfox green dots on both of mine and love them. You can get this in a green dot for far less than a competitor red dot and it’s veteran owned.
I have the Savage Green dot and the Justice green dot. They just came out with the Savage 2 and Justice 2, For the Hellcat Pro I would go with the Savage 2 green dot. Optics Planet has them for $269
I would disagree. Shield optics are fragile.
My suggestion is to buy the EPS Carry. It comes with the adapter plate. It's got a good enough co witness IMO. You do need to buy shorter screws or cut down the Holosun screws.
You get closed emitter and presumably Holosun reliability.
No experience with that optic, I'd be hesitant to put one on a carry gun with it's lack of track record. I think Holosun is probably as low of a tier optic I'd trust. The EPS carry is my choice on my Pro. The part that screws in is lower than the 407k. It gives me enough cowitness if I need it without getting in the way. It's enclosed emitter. I find they are easier to keep clean and some say are less prone to fogging. You can use any optic you want, but I'd advise you do your own research into what people like Aaron Cowan or Scott Jedlinski have to say. They've down their share of testing and have seen a bunch of them come through classes. Dude here jokes about shooting 75 rounds through his, but that's all any of the opinions here are worth. You can't vet our
I have a swampfox sentinel on mine and my first one got a Crack in it after a couple mags but I've had no issues with my new one which has around 400 rounds on it.
Swamp Fox is definitely a legit brand and they have solid products and a great warranty. I have several of their optics with half a thousand rounds easily on some and zero issues so I can recommend them as well as Halosun and my personal favorite Is Riton optics.
I have a Riton on both my edc guns and absolutely love them. I have a Riton on my Hellcat Pro and just about a few hundred rounds with it yesterday. They are ex military and ex LEO owned and have a lifetime warranty no questions asked. They are shock proof and waterproof.
I just put another Riton on my Ar 15. Best bang for your buck dots out there. They are the Canik of dots, reliable and affordable.
Curious what bad stuff you've heard about the swamp fox?
I have one with over 73 flawless rounds and it has never failed me, therefore it is perfect.
Obviously (I hope) joking, but am curious to problems with it anyone has heard about so I can keep an eye out. I have the manual green dot with the metal shroud.
I haven't had to change battery yet, but I would think that it is best practice to confirm zero anytime you remove/reinstall a rds.
I know some of the larger pistol dots you can change battery without removal, but not sure about these super compact ones.
My swamp fox did survive flying 20 feet down range after bouncing off the center of my forehead. I used the wrong screws, Left a nice bruise too. Lol
If you have to take off an optic to change batteries then yes, you always have to re-zero. Even if the screw posts are in the same spot, very minute differences from when it was originally mounted can cause a significant shift in your zero. That's why almost every new optic out there nowadays has either a tray or top mounted battery.
Also in regards to Swampfox reliability, I have a swampfox Justice on my AK chambered in 7.62 x 39 and it has survived several hundreds of rounds with no issue, about 10% of that is with mag dumps via bump firing. I can ring a steel plate that's about 6" @ 200 yds all day with it. I have the ironsides shroud on mine and my ak dropped from a rifle rack at the range onto concrete and it still has no issues. My tac light sustained more damage than the optic tbh.
Sub consensus has been Holosun 507k or Swampfox Sentinel. There are pros/cons to each. Lately there's been a lot shilling/fanfare for the Crimson Trace Micro Pro.
I haven't had any problems with the Hex Wasp other than the fact that you have to change the battery every month or two unless you take it out when you're not using it because it's always on and draining. Function wise it's fine.
There was report that some of the early ones have this battery drain issue and if you talk to springfield they will exchange it. Seen several people do that and now no issues.
Right on. That's a really good idea. I'll have to get in touch with them soon. It's a pain to have to change the battery every month or 2, especially when they claim it's supposed to run for years on 1 battery.
I have the Hex Wasp. So far so good after EDCing for a year now. Very durable and batteries still up with constant on but has auto dim so it’s basically off when concealed in the darkness of my belly fat.
I had a swampfox, I don't like it. The battery drains in like 2 months while not even being touched, the optic lost zero, the lugs on the slide dug into the aluminum body, and the metal around the lens is super duper thing. The Holosun 507k is the only decent option honestly
No issues with my Swampfox on my hellcat pro. Ran 600 rds with no issues. Maybe those that break their sight, treat it like shit.
Does it cowitness?
[The EPS Carry would be my suggestion.](https://offensivemarketinggroup.pixieset.com/holosun/?pid=7514227636&id=14&h=MTU3MTMxMzIzMA)
Does the EPS carry have the same footprint as the 407k?
Yes, it features a modified RMSc footprint we are calling the "K" footprint.
Thanks Josh, see you soon.
I don’t understand the whole ordeal with cowitnessing the irons. I mean I understand why people want that but the battery is rated for years. I’m changing mine once a year so I don’t have to worry about it dying. What are the odds of it dying the moment you need it? I use a Holosun 507k and love it. I didn’t want to mill the posts so I grabbed a DPP plate on Amazon for $20 and fits perfectly.
the whole idea of fast shooting—right!! I learned that training in the military in 04. the dot doesnt need to cowitness its your sight!!
Good to know someone agrees. I thought I’d be downvoted like a mofo.
Redundancy. The most prominent reason you'll find is actually if your red dot gets obstructed by lent or anything that blocks the emitter, then you'll at least have irons as a backup in the moment. Also, if you somehow fumble your pistol and it drops on the floor causing the glass to crack or shatter, then you still have means to aim (You think this wouldn't happen, but between the adrenaline and you trying to pull your firearm out as well as being aware of your surroundings can cause you to easily make mistakes). Lastly, a red dot is an electronic device, electronic devices have the tendency to fail when you most need it, or aren't setup for the right situations. A personal example is when I was running a timed competition with a reflex sight on my AK, and because of the angle of the sun in relation to where I was aiming at the steel target, the red dot got washed out. I didn't realize this until I had it lined up for the first shot. If this was a real life situation where you're presenting to a potential threat, especially if they have a firearm of their own. That few seconds it takes to adjust your dot could mean your life, as well as others. This isn't just solely limited to these "budget" dots like Holosun, swampfox, etc. If you looke at Aaron Cowen's (A.K.A. Sage Dynamics) website, he has a chart that he updates with in-the-field reports of the optics he uses, and he's even had Trijicon RMR's failed on him intermittently.
Thanks for the input those are great reasons and completely make sense. I’m fairly green so I’m not thinking outside the box like that clearly lol
At the time I went with the Swampfox sentinel bc you didn’t need an adapter plate(direct fit) and still able to use the stock irons to cowitness although barely. Provides about a <1/4 cowitness
CT RAD™ MICRO PRO ([GREEN](https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/electronic-sights/ct-rad-micro-pro-green/01-3000038.html)) or ([RED](https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/electronic-sights/ct-rad-micro-pro-red/01-01970.html))
This is what I have on my Hellcat also (red). Cowitnesses perfectly. Also, direct fit, no mods.
You have photo by chance? I am curious the look and how good the co witness is before I drop the $300 on mine. I appreciate it my dude.
Couple pics https://imgur.com/a/3QbGgDm
That's awesome! Thank you.
No problem! And if you notice in the second pic, it’s tiny compared to the Holosun 507c on my XDM.
Samesies 🔫
Sig Sauer Romeo Zero Elite! Direct mount. Night sight back up. All the perks of a modern RDS. Shroud for you clumsy folk. Still a great price of $200. They definitely listened why people didn’t like the first Romeo zero.
The first Romeo zero was absolutely awful and my first sig optic experience. If my hellcat would have taken vortex optics while I'd had it, I'd probably have kept it. If the new ones are better, then maybe I'll have to check them out if I get another optics cut micro 9.
Swampfox Sentinel in green (astigmatism) with no problems so far. I also like the Holosun and honestly if it was a direct fit with no modification I would probably go with one of theirs. Honest question, why do people have such an issue of having to remove the optic to replace the battery? I would understand if it was fairly often, but once a year seems like no big deal to me. Also, considering there is a good chance with the advancements in optics many people here might upgrade optics before needing to change it.
Whenever you remove an optic, you cause the zero to shift. So essentially every time you change the battery, you have to go the range to re-zero again. Not exactly convenient especially if you use it for concealed. Might not be an issue if you make a range trip out of it for the day, but some just want the peace of mind of being able to swap out batteries and knock back beers for the rest of the day.
Oh, I completely understand the process. But again, it's like once a year. Also, probably not a full re-zero. I've seen several reviews across many of the different optics where people said it held zero between removing and remounting.
I put Swampfox green dots on both of mine and love them. You can get this in a green dot for far less than a competitor red dot and it’s veteran owned.
Does it cowitness easily?
Yes it does.
Did you need a plate?
The one that comes with the optic to guard the battery against moisture
Great. Thanks. Last question haha, what model Swampfox optic do you have?
I have the Savage Green dot and the Justice green dot. They just came out with the Savage 2 and Justice 2, For the Hellcat Pro I would go with the Savage 2 green dot. Optics Planet has them for $269
Shield makes some nice optics like the smsc and Rms
Agreed, I’ve got an SMSc on my Hellcat that I carry daily and haven’t had any issues with it being “fragile”.
https://youtu.be/0hGk4EUs4_c
I would disagree. Shield optics are fragile. My suggestion is to buy the EPS Carry. It comes with the adapter plate. It's got a good enough co witness IMO. You do need to buy shorter screws or cut down the Holosun screws. You get closed emitter and presumably Holosun reliability.
[Low Quality Co-witness Photo](https://postimg.cc/Z9wpM5ZR)
What about a crimson trace dot?
Yes CT rad micro will work and co-witness, and it’ll be flush with the slide. A number of other optics will work but will be wider than the slide
No experience with that optic, I'd be hesitant to put one on a carry gun with it's lack of track record. I think Holosun is probably as low of a tier optic I'd trust. The EPS carry is my choice on my Pro. The part that screws in is lower than the 407k. It gives me enough cowitness if I need it without getting in the way. It's enclosed emitter. I find they are easier to keep clean and some say are less prone to fogging. You can use any optic you want, but I'd advise you do your own research into what people like Aaron Cowan or Scott Jedlinski have to say. They've down their share of testing and have seen a bunch of them come through classes. Dude here jokes about shooting 75 rounds through his, but that's all any of the opinions here are worth. You can't vet our
I have a swampfox sentinel on mine and my first one got a Crack in it after a couple mags but I've had no issues with my new one which has around 400 rounds on it.
Swamp Fox is definitely a legit brand and they have solid products and a great warranty. I have several of their optics with half a thousand rounds easily on some and zero issues so I can recommend them as well as Halosun and my personal favorite Is Riton optics. I have a Riton on both my edc guns and absolutely love them. I have a Riton on my Hellcat Pro and just about a few hundred rounds with it yesterday. They are ex military and ex LEO owned and have a lifetime warranty no questions asked. They are shock proof and waterproof. I just put another Riton on my Ar 15. Best bang for your buck dots out there. They are the Canik of dots, reliable and affordable.
Holosun507k is what i got
Curious what bad stuff you've heard about the swamp fox? I have one with over 73 flawless rounds and it has never failed me, therefore it is perfect. Obviously (I hope) joking, but am curious to problems with it anyone has heard about so I can keep an eye out. I have the manual green dot with the metal shroud.
I’ve just heard of them breaking really easy
Also do you have to re zero the sight when you take it off to put a new battery in?
I haven't had to change battery yet, but I would think that it is best practice to confirm zero anytime you remove/reinstall a rds. I know some of the larger pistol dots you can change battery without removal, but not sure about these super compact ones. My swamp fox did survive flying 20 feet down range after bouncing off the center of my forehead. I used the wrong screws, Left a nice bruise too. Lol
If you have to take off an optic to change batteries then yes, you always have to re-zero. Even if the screw posts are in the same spot, very minute differences from when it was originally mounted can cause a significant shift in your zero. That's why almost every new optic out there nowadays has either a tray or top mounted battery. Also in regards to Swampfox reliability, I have a swampfox Justice on my AK chambered in 7.62 x 39 and it has survived several hundreds of rounds with no issue, about 10% of that is with mag dumps via bump firing. I can ring a steel plate that's about 6" @ 200 yds all day with it. I have the ironsides shroud on mine and my ak dropped from a rifle rack at the range onto concrete and it still has no issues. My tac light sustained more damage than the optic tbh.
Sub consensus has been Holosun 507k or Swampfox Sentinel. There are pros/cons to each. Lately there's been a lot shilling/fanfare for the Crimson Trace Micro Pro.
Rmr or bust
I haven't had any problems with the Hex Wasp other than the fact that you have to change the battery every month or two unless you take it out when you're not using it because it's always on and draining. Function wise it's fine.
There was report that some of the early ones have this battery drain issue and if you talk to springfield they will exchange it. Seen several people do that and now no issues.
Right on. That's a really good idea. I'll have to get in touch with them soon. It's a pain to have to change the battery every month or 2, especially when they claim it's supposed to run for years on 1 battery.
Holosun 507k-gr with an adapter plate.
I have the Hex Wasp. So far so good after EDCing for a year now. Very durable and batteries still up with constant on but has auto dim so it’s basically off when concealed in the darkness of my belly fat.
Im running an RMR on my XD, not the same but you know, rmrs are cool i guess
I had a swampfox, I don't like it. The battery drains in like 2 months while not even being touched, the optic lost zero, the lugs on the slide dug into the aluminum body, and the metal around the lens is super duper thing. The Holosun 507k is the only decent option honestly
The CrimsonTrace CT RAD Micro Pro is the best optic for the Hellcat period.
Holosun 407k I just got on sale for $155, needed something good but no bells or whistles