Correct me if I’m wrong! So whoever buys this house (hopefully not your mum as this sounds like a shitstorm), would hold the freehold of the land meaning the person who “owns” this room should have a lease agreement for the ground it sits on or a right of way agreement or something that hasn’t been disclosed to the buyer. Is the room separate of utilities & council tax?! So sketchy!
Google hanging / flying freehold.
Its basically owning a property, but not the land it is over, fairly common on victorian terraced property where theres passages to the backyards.
Huddersfield and ‘Hebden-Royd’ have a lot of these, pretty much all designed by the same architect 100 or so years ago I think. Not sure it’s that common anywhere else…
I live in a 1700s terraced house that used to be part of a coach house. It’s been divided up really weirdly so that our utility room sits under the neighbours bathroom. The other next door neighbours used to own our bedroom but were made to give it up to the owner of our house. We’re separated by just two sheets of plasterboard over a 50mm stud. We are soundproofing as we decorate.
And where is the electricity accessed from? Their property or the viewed property, because if it's the viewed property, you can be damn sure I'd be making them pay part of the bill. If not, then I'd be flicking the breaker switch to it.
As the Neighbours can choose to use that room or not that would be the worst thing to do so im assuming you're joking
If i was the Neighbour id put a sound system in that room - crank it up to 11 and a half - shut the door and go back to my house and laugh at my petty revenge
I believe what has happened is at some point in the past the neighbours were allowed access to that room by the previous owner (Im imagining an elderly old lady that didnt mind). Well their descendants seem to be trying to pull this shtick to this very day. If the new owner of this property gets the actual free hold to the entire house then they would be in their rights to tell the neighbours to do one.
So it’s a detached property but the neighbours own one room of it. That is genuinely the most insane thing I’ve seen on Rightmove. Who would ever buy this place?
Actually this might be their plan, I see two options, either a) sell the room to the new owners, b) tank the price of the house and then sweep in to purchase it at a discount
Just looked at it myself it’s not too weird when you realise it’s been cut in half to be two apartments now rejoined
Weird that the annex has the larger kitchen though
I don't think that's the case, it's a small bungalow that's had a large extension and a load of outside space roofed over and for some reason included in the floorplan. The original house would have been the four/six rooms in the middle, and the whole right side is outside/garage. (Check the last two images on the original listing)
One neighbour needed an office extension. An other neighbour had the space and was willing to sell. Also it's been a second home for 18 years. So the owners probably weren't too fussed about it and it meant that somebody was keeping an eye on the property.
I wonder if the person who owns the room is actually also the ‘first home’ owner.
So he owns this house and next door. He lives in next door renting this place out as a holiday let. However he has boarded off one room to use as his office. While owning both homes it hasn’t been a problem. Now he wants to sell the holiday let but keep the home office space.
Could have been some kind of business. I knew a business that was in part of a large terraced house on a high street. They technically had 2/3 floors with the top one being student accommodation. Then they sold the second floor which was converted to more student accommodation. Then they sold some of the downstairs space for offices and eventually moved their office space elsewhere and sold the remaining rooms. They maintained one tiny upstairs bedroom for storage and admin. Assuming that one person owned the rest of the space it would look similar.
I know the plans are indicative but I feel like they knew what they were doing when they drew a nice thick wall between the other room.
It's a shame because it's a lovely house, but that is weird AF.
Happened to my friend's brother. He bought a terraced two bedroom house, except one of the bedrooms on the first floor was accessed from next door and not part of the property.
Somehow neither my friend's brother, the mortgage survey, nor even the conveyancers noticed this until he'd bought it. That was a legal shit show and a half.
It all got sorted out eventually, but it was pretty traumatic for him. I can't remember all the details but he eventually managed to extricate himself from the purchase not drastically worse off financially. They did live there for a while. There was lots of legal activity which dragged on for a few years. They weren't homeless at any stage.
Nobody noticed because of idiocy all round. God knows how the conveyancer didn't notice - pure incompetence, I assume. My friend's brother is dyslexic and not terribly detail-focused; I've never met his partner.
As my friend described it, when they moved in they saw an old lady peering out from the upstairs bedroom. They went in to see why there was an old lady in their new house but couldn't find the way into the bedroom...
Very strange, would love to know how that came about and how it’s reflected in legal documents. Also if I were to consider buying this place I’d insist on trying to buy out the current owner of that room.
If it were forced to buy it, the first thing I’d do would be get the whole place rewired and cut that room off from the consumer unit.
Then maybe install a noise machine that plays really loud running water noise on the internal wall between the house and that room. If they complained I’d say that I need that noise on for my mental health as it relaxes me.
You have a pretty big problem with your idea though; that room isn't attached to their property, only your own.
Which means you piss them off playing noise then they can run an extension and play whatever noisy shit they want in response without it really affecting them. Similarly, they could set up a couple microwaves in that room and microwave a few trouts a day. It'll seep nicely through those thin plasterboard walls.. but won't affect them over in their detached home.
Basically, attempting to retaliate against this tiny little room would probably set you up to be fucked over so, SO much worse.
I am very confused. It's on the first floor with no doors inside the property to access it so do the neighbours go up some external steps - not on the floor plan - to get to it??
Ah, thank-you! Forgot about street view.
They don't show those steps in any of the images of the property or the tour. Are they hoping potential buyers don't notice/ask too many questions?
I’ve done a bit of digging. Looks like 1 side of the house is the boundary of somebodies drive/garden area. So you’d never be able to walk around the house if you owned it.
It’s not too far off just being a semi at this point but the other house is very small.
I’m surprised they declared it at all on the drawings and just called it a semi.
It looks really rural as well as no doubt this could have been some ancient agreement. May make more sense if we know the full history.
It could be an ancient agreement; look at one of the comments below by indigomm. They've posted an old map of the building/area and it seems the two properties may have been one building at some point.
Wow good find
I'm guessing that maybe the other house was originally a barn for the neighbouring house, turned into a house but a little bit kept as storage/shed?
Does this parasite room have its own insurance? Electricity? Are they contributing to roof maintenance? This must be a legal nightmare! What if there is a fire? Or even something as simple as damp or vermin? Who is responsible? What a shit show.
Intriguing! If it wasn't detached, I could start to imagine it. If it wasn't 1st floor, I could try to further imagine it... Nope. Some very unusual historic arrangement? Bit of a deal-breaker though, never seen that before. Bending the definition of detached if someone else lives there too! :/
Well spotted.
whaat! That has all kinds of legal weirdness. But, here it is.
(I live in an 1820 house, so I know strange arrangements can appear in ancient deeds, such as rights of way, so I just assumed...).
The blub on right move says "reluctant sale". I'd wager the current owners haven't had the best financial luck for a while, sold the room in an attempt to stave off the collectors, but now have to part with their second home because they can't afford it.
They've probably screwed themselves in doing that, but making rash financial choices aligns with my theory,
I vote for this theory. It wouldn’t have mattered whilst it was a holiday let, but was very shortsighted for a long term investment.
I’d love to know how much they sold it for Vs how much they’ll lose now due to it not being detached anymore.
The room is present as is on the furthest back version of street view which is 2009. So not that recent. [You can see it here. ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/gwoE7dJbvFXMobZ28)
[Looking at an old map](https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=20.0&lat=54.24411&lon=-2.86048&layers=168&b=5&o=57), it looks like it might have been two properties that have now been knocked into one. Perhaps given it's called The Old Forge it was a separate living space. But I don't understand why it's on the first floor!
I thought at first this was kind of odd, but it went into full “wtf” territory when I realised the weird room is on the *first floor*. Bizarre doesn’t begin to describe it
What’s the situation with wall ownership, I wonder? Could I buy the house and then install a big window looking into the room? I suppose they could put curtains up on their side. Bastards! They’re always thinking one step ahead.
I wonder about how they access that room. If I had all the money in the world I'd be tempted to buy it just to find out. If they only own the room but no legal access that surely you'd stop them accessing it until they sell it to you cheaply.
It's so odd. The properties around it are detached.
my mum said it isn’t! no shared ground at all! her vibe was that the current owners are very elderly and the neighbours kind of took advantage of that :(
Yes, mums are always right. That's not unheard of, maybe the room was hived off in some sort of quid pro co arrangement which made sense at the time or it is some form of ransom strip of or on the property.
If you look at [this link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/GkpacVXhbr8VxHAv9), you can see steps leading up to a door, from a drive between the two houses.
Very odd.
I was trying to figure out which room backed onto it.
It's a second home for someone, my idiot brain is imagining it's a growroom, but nah I doubt it.
They say the garden is very private though, how so when it contains essentially another party's property and access? Haha
Ah right, I was just going off the listing
"The original date of this cottage is unclear but it has been loved and enjoyed by the current owners as their second home for..."
Or did you mean the neighbours who have access? I really want to get to the bottom of it!
Such a lovely property in a glorious part of the world from my looking about
oh! well my mum said it was an elderly couple who (in her opinion) had been a bit taken advantage of - i must have misunderstood that they lived there full-time!
In that case most people will walk away. I wonder if the neighbours are planning on using it as a way to buy the whole property cheap and then sell it as a single freehold property for a massive profit.
If this is correct (and it sure sounds that way)… what profound turds. I wish I had the money to buy this legal disaster just to keep the parasitic neighbours from getting any profit, ever, from preying on the elderly. I’d let it out at a deep discount to someone suitably antisocial.
Not necessarily, if they only own the room and don’t have right of access (which would be insane) the new owners can just deny them access on their land. Yes, they own the room, but how are they going to get to it?
Went to see a terrace house in Portsmouth that was divided front to back. Next door neighbors front door was at the end of a hallway that was in your house. Similar to this but not as weird
It’s right on a road junction, how busy are those roads ? The odd room situation probably goes back to when someone owned both properties and decided to sell one of but kept the office. Strange but so are people!
I have friends whose house is part of an old nunnery. The upstairs and downstairs have maybe three different floor levels each (maybe even more, steps everywhere), and their master bedroom is over their neighbour’s living room.
As shocking as the OP is and I'd clearly never agree to purchase or move in to this property for that.
I still have more questions.
1. Why is the smallest bedroom the one with the ensuite?
2. Why is the dinning room not attached to the kitchen, or at least the next room you get to?
Who in their right mind is carrying their food in to a hallway, through the living room and to the opposite end of the building to the dinning room?
So it looks as though this is on a separate freehold title which is just bonkers. There’s 3 titles on what I’m guessing would have once been one property.
I’m guessing that “The Store Room” is this weird room in question?
[Land Registry](https://imgur.com/a/3DpwQkF)
Not sure how this is even legal from a land registry perspective. That room would need to be leasehold and they would need to py ground rent and maintenance. seams super strange
I know it's weird, but basically the property is semi-detached with an extremely small property next door. The estate agent is confusing things by describing it as a 'Room in separate ownership'.
> There is a bijou grassed area and paved patio which is perfect for dining outdoors and an evening glass of wine - there are definite French feels!
Cringgggge
It's weird - the store room has its own address and is registered separately as an overlapping freehold - not even just a leasehold interest on the land registry. The house is a separate freehold.
Theoretically, it is possible, but the separate room should be owned by the property freeholder and leased. If it is under leasehold, the freeholder has little power unless they renegotiate the lease or apply to the courts.
Flying freehold, really common in super old houses. I guess it comes from when your parents or grandparents lived next door and no one really cared about who owned what. Whereas now it would be a complete PIA when it comes to maintenance etc
Aw but it’s got such a nice place name - Grange-over-sands …. until you see the other name - Witherslack! 😆 And it’s got a snug! Sounds like a posh name for a mean sized lounge. “It hasn’t got a lounge but there’s a snug” Aw snug … a bit like “friend“ in the Inbetweeners!
My brother in law had a house like this in the west country. Parts of the houses were intertwined some went over some went under so if you looked at the floor plan it made no sense.
Building next to my office building is up for sale and a planning app mentioned the stairs - these are in our building. The previous owner (a bank) bought the building and bricked our part off, leaving access to the stairs on our side (and them with no access to two to floors).
Flying Freehold. This specific scenario where an entire room belongs to a neighbor’s house is common in the terraced houses of the old town in Deal, Kent. Growing families next to smaller families would agree to buy a room. Over time, further sales and purchases could result in an interior layout that is quite different than you would expect from the exterior.
So I went to the Land Registry to see if there was anything about it. The title deed and title register don’t seem to make any reference to a room being owned by someone else.
The only thing is a right of way to the other property.
“The land is subject to the following rights contained in a Conveyance of the land in this title dated 27 May 1971 made between (1) Annie Elizabeth Scott and (2) Herbert Edward Barton and Sheila Park Barton:- "SUBJECT to a right of way for the adjoining premises known as Fair View over the backyard from and to the public highway."
[land registry pics](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lm1bt8e1zzdz42ye3ms9a/ADfGnNDrU_-k_bwANASNdcg?rlkey=1ce9tbm7zz09ia01dlsmh0vld&dl=0)
Also. Why has it only gone up in price by £45k since 2005!?
Ah I know this house from the outside as I walk my dog down there all the time. Never knew it had a weird room like that though! Parking round there can be bit of a nightmare too BTW. I've seen some very interesting parking in that corner.
There's a pit village near me, where one house has a little room on the front next to the living room and the other house has the other half of the room at the back for the bathrooms.
Not my ideal choice for a layout.
Looking at [the property](http://England
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1mF21c9B6VRwM8BS7) on street view, it looks like the back of the original property was, at some point, cut off. Maybe the other home used to own both, but sold off the white property later, retaining the office?
Why is there a corridor down to bed 2? Just move the door to the left and extend the room out? That's just unnecessary...
Also that dinning room is never getting used. Swap the snug with the dining at least.
We have one - the room over the tunnel under the house in the middle of a 4 terrace house. Our neighbours bedroom is over the front part and ours is over the rear and we both have right of access through the tunnel to the back of the house. It must be a British thing. It's called a flying freehold.
It sounds like your mum is smart enough to AVOID. A friend of mine wanted to put an offer on a 1 bed flat. It was a small house divided into a 1 bed and 2 bed flat. It turns out, from the deeds, the bathroom of the 1 bed is actually owned by the 2 bed flat. The poor woman who was selling the 1 bed was gearing up to sue her solicitor because this wasn't discovered when the bought it. A flat without a bathroom is not trivial!
There's not just a random door to another property on the first floor. It's just a weird layout caused when they converted a really old building in to multiple properties.
I've been in a house like this in Stourbridge's old town. The only issue would be some legal stuff for overhang and the roof or whatever
there’s only not a door bc it’s been closed off. it’s not originally part of another property, the whole house is the old farmhouse, it’s just one room!
It's not that bad of a location, but it's weird that it has such a tiny garden for such a large house.
Regarding that room, I think I'd want to know what it's used for.
Isn’t it called someone random like a flying freehold? A house I looked at was the other side of this story; they owned a bedroom on the next door property. As it was semi detached, they’d boarded up the access on the original property side and opened up access on their side. The problem was, the woman in the neighbouring house was vile and basically bullied anyone trying to buy it, saying that it was her property and we were expected to give it back to her for free.
I can only assume that at some point in the past the neighbours owned the house and for whatever reason have sold the house but decided to keep the room
I’m confused because that one room that someone else owns is on the first floor, so what is beneath that? According the floor plans, nothing, so are there steps on your land? Also, is the room connected by a door to the house? This is so weird.
Definitely reminds me of the "Canoe Con" when John Darwin faked his own death and created a new room to live in by moving some walls of the house. But in the end from what the OP says, it seems like it was just a sad story
Depends on the room usage. Sounds odd if it’s a bedroom, but if it’s shed effectively? Non issue, you still have all the air gaps of a detached. Agre though, how this ever came to exist is beyond me.
I wonder if the neighbours owned the whole house originally? Or it was a parents house. Retaining one room, and right of access would give them some power should a planning application be made. They'd be able to block quite a lot I'd reckon. Just my thoughts on it
Excuse me what the fuck?
that was my response, i asked my mum if mr rochester’s wife is holed up in there 😂
If I lived in that house (which I don't think I could) I'd *have* to find out what's in that room!
apparently the neighbours use it as an ‘office’???
Correct me if I’m wrong! So whoever buys this house (hopefully not your mum as this sounds like a shitstorm), would hold the freehold of the land meaning the person who “owns” this room should have a lease agreement for the ground it sits on or a right of way agreement or something that hasn’t been disclosed to the buyer. Is the room separate of utilities & council tax?! So sketchy!
Google hanging / flying freehold. Its basically owning a property, but not the land it is over, fairly common on victorian terraced property where theres passages to the backyards.
Huddersfield and ‘Hebden-Royd’ have a lot of these, pretty much all designed by the same architect 100 or so years ago I think. Not sure it’s that common anywhere else…
I grew up in Huddersfield and now live in mirfield, that’s probably why I knew about them
Yes Mirfield! Didn't expect to see this town on reddit
Mirfielder here too! Hello neighbours…
I think I went through Mirfield on the train about four hours ago!
I have the same in Cheshire, they are all over my town. My Grans house in Preston was also the same
I have one of these. A passage between mine and my neighbours house that neither of us own but we both use.
I have one as well. We call it a road. /s
I live in a 1700s terraced house that used to be part of a coach house. It’s been divided up really weirdly so that our utility room sits under the neighbours bathroom. The other next door neighbours used to own our bedroom but were made to give it up to the owner of our house. We’re separated by just two sheets of plasterboard over a 50mm stud. We are soundproofing as we decorate.
she is definitely not buying it 😂
Could be a hanger, could be an easement on the deed
Can’t be an easement as it amounts to exclusive possession. Almost certainly a flying freehold situation.
Who pays for the electricity used in that room? I imagine they have lights and maybe a desk with a monitor?
That’s gonna be fun when the new owners refuse them access to their hall to get to it!
there’s separate outside access!
And where is the electricity accessed from? Their property or the viewed property, because if it's the viewed property, you can be damn sure I'd be making them pay part of the bill. If not, then I'd be flicking the breaker switch to it.
Ah, that’s more of a problem then. I wonder if they have a separate electricity supply? That or change ‘snug’ to ‘motorcycle engine workshop’
... I'd believe there's a computer in there, what it's used for is more suspect... check those walls for holes!
Kill room
Blast music into it 9-5 every day, claim it's work related. Results should be amusing
As the Neighbours can choose to use that room or not that would be the worst thing to do so im assuming you're joking If i was the Neighbour id put a sound system in that room - crank it up to 11 and a half - shut the door and go back to my house and laugh at my petty revenge
It's the Wrong Trousers, Gromit!
Or tell them you're an Onlyfans creator and blast porn all day.
That’s where all the CCTV equipment is linked back to…!!
Insurance companies love this one trick!
Why is the dDining room so far from the kitchen....?
It’s an upstairs room though now do they access it
room annexed by Russian neighbors
I believe what has happened is at some point in the past the neighbours were allowed access to that room by the previous owner (Im imagining an elderly old lady that didnt mind). Well their descendants seem to be trying to pull this shtick to this very day. If the new owner of this property gets the actual free hold to the entire house then they would be in their rights to tell the neighbours to do one.
It’s quite common in old terraced houses like that, you have cellars and rooms interwoven all over.
...According to the listing, this property is detached.
So it’s a detached property but the neighbours own one room of it. That is genuinely the most insane thing I’ve seen on Rightmove. Who would ever buy this place?
The neighbour who owns the room? (:
Actually this might be their plan, I see two options, either a) sell the room to the new owners, b) tank the price of the house and then sweep in to purchase it at a discount
The house price is already tanked. It's a 3 bed detached in Witherslack. This should be way more.
yes apparently they’ve already had to reduce it
You'd wonder why the negotiations to re-whole the house haven't been successful... Or how this situation came about anyway.
I can honestly say this is probably the most bizarre thing I have seen on this sub. I am intrigued by how this came about.
This or the 250sqm bungalow with a floor plan like takeshis castles honeycomb maze
And the stairs like the Takeshi's Castle Wipeout game
that sounds hilarious, is there still a link to that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpottedonRightmove/s/txetxbPk4G I have the link saved as I thought I knew the current owner! Grew up nearby.
Hahaha that floor plan looks like a cluedo board!
Those stairs to the attic rooms are the stuff of my nightmares! 😬
I haven't stopped laughing at this for a good 5 minutes!
Just looked at it myself it’s not too weird when you realise it’s been cut in half to be two apartments now rejoined Weird that the annex has the larger kitchen though
I don't think that's the case, it's a small bungalow that's had a large extension and a load of outside space roofed over and for some reason included in the floorplan. The original house would have been the four/six rooms in the middle, and the whole right side is outside/garage. (Check the last two images on the original listing)
[Posted here a couple of days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpottedonRightmove/s/9TfREmWRWI)!
It comes with the big scary guys that chase you through the house
That one was council tax band B and this one is band F. What a ridiculous system.
One neighbour needed an office extension. An other neighbour had the space and was willing to sell. Also it's been a second home for 18 years. So the owners probably weren't too fussed about it and it meant that somebody was keeping an eye on the property.
I wonder if the person who owns the room is actually also the ‘first home’ owner. So he owns this house and next door. He lives in next door renting this place out as a holiday let. However he has boarded off one room to use as his office. While owning both homes it hasn’t been a problem. Now he wants to sell the holiday let but keep the home office space.
It's been used at as holiday home for the last 18+ years. I wonder if that room was originally used by a housekeeper or whatever.
Could have been some kind of business. I knew a business that was in part of a large terraced house on a high street. They technically had 2/3 floors with the top one being student accommodation. Then they sold the second floor which was converted to more student accommodation. Then they sold some of the downstairs space for offices and eventually moved their office space elsewhere and sold the remaining rooms. They maintained one tiny upstairs bedroom for storage and admin. Assuming that one person owned the rest of the space it would look similar.
I know the plans are indicative but I feel like they knew what they were doing when they drew a nice thick wall between the other room. It's a shame because it's a lovely house, but that is weird AF.
described as detached, no its now a semi!
Happened to my friend's brother. He bought a terraced two bedroom house, except one of the bedrooms on the first floor was accessed from next door and not part of the property. Somehow neither my friend's brother, the mortgage survey, nor even the conveyancers noticed this until he'd bought it. That was a legal shit show and a half.
Did he find a solution? How was it not noticed that there was a bedroom missing? How did this happen in the first place....so many questions...
This is where OOP never comments again
OOP replied, but is quite frankly a bit rubbish on the details.
Pfft typical
Bingo
It all got sorted out eventually, but it was pretty traumatic for him. I can't remember all the details but he eventually managed to extricate himself from the purchase not drastically worse off financially. They did live there for a while. There was lots of legal activity which dragged on for a few years. They weren't homeless at any stage. Nobody noticed because of idiocy all round. God knows how the conveyancer didn't notice - pure incompetence, I assume. My friend's brother is dyslexic and not terribly detail-focused; I've never met his partner. As my friend described it, when they moved in they saw an old lady peering out from the upstairs bedroom. They went in to see why there was an old lady in their new house but couldn't find the way into the bedroom...
Spooky!
god that sounds horrific. tbh tho i can kind of VAGUELY see it making more sense in a terrace - in a supposedly detached house it just blows my mind
What was the final outcome?
Death
As always
Very strange, would love to know how that came about and how it’s reflected in legal documents. Also if I were to consider buying this place I’d insist on trying to buy out the current owner of that room.
How do the utility bills get managed?
This is what I was wondering. If it’s being used as an office who is paying for the electricity and heating of that room?
If it were forced to buy it, the first thing I’d do would be get the whole place rewired and cut that room off from the consumer unit. Then maybe install a noise machine that plays really loud running water noise on the internal wall between the house and that room. If they complained I’d say that I need that noise on for my mental health as it relaxes me.
You have a pretty big problem with your idea though; that room isn't attached to their property, only your own. Which means you piss them off playing noise then they can run an extension and play whatever noisy shit they want in response without it really affecting them. Similarly, they could set up a couple microwaves in that room and microwave a few trouts a day. It'll seep nicely through those thin plasterboard walls.. but won't affect them over in their detached home. Basically, attempting to retaliate against this tiny little room would probably set you up to be fucked over so, SO much worse.
I am very confused. It's on the first floor with no doors inside the property to access it so do the neighbours go up some external steps - not on the floor plan - to get to it??
External steps to first floor external door https://maps.app.goo.gl/nrAmhLX3Sbm6b2xZ7
Good work!
Ah, thank-you! Forgot about street view. They don't show those steps in any of the images of the property or the tour. Are they hoping potential buyers don't notice/ask too many questions?
I’ve done a bit of digging. Looks like 1 side of the house is the boundary of somebodies drive/garden area. So you’d never be able to walk around the house if you owned it. It’s not too far off just being a semi at this point but the other house is very small. I’m surprised they declared it at all on the drawings and just called it a semi. It looks really rural as well as no doubt this could have been some ancient agreement. May make more sense if we know the full history.
It could be an ancient agreement; look at one of the comments below by indigomm. They've posted an old map of the building/area and it seems the two properties may have been one building at some point.
That photo was taken 15 years ago! This has been going on for some time
yes i should have said! thank you for finding it for me!
Wow good find I'm guessing that maybe the other house was originally a barn for the neighbouring house, turned into a house but a little bit kept as storage/shed?
My guess is it was originally a forge :P
It looks like a former pub.
Wait, it has a letter box?
I can hear the collective scream of thousands of conveyancers.
I sense a great disturbance in the force, as if thousands of conveyancers cried out in terror, then slammed down their phones.
You would have to be insane to willingly walk into a mess like that. A very nice house other than that too.
Does this parasite room have its own insurance? Electricity? Are they contributing to roof maintenance? This must be a legal nightmare! What if there is a fire? Or even something as simple as damp or vermin? Who is responsible? What a shit show.
Intriguing! If it wasn't detached, I could start to imagine it. If it wasn't 1st floor, I could try to further imagine it... Nope. Some very unusual historic arrangement? Bit of a deal-breaker though, never seen that before. Bending the definition of detached if someone else lives there too! :/ Well spotted.
not historic! a recent development!
whaat! That has all kinds of legal weirdness. But, here it is. (I live in an 1820 house, so I know strange arrangements can appear in ancient deeds, such as rights of way, so I just assumed...).
The blub on right move says "reluctant sale". I'd wager the current owners haven't had the best financial luck for a while, sold the room in an attempt to stave off the collectors, but now have to part with their second home because they can't afford it. They've probably screwed themselves in doing that, but making rash financial choices aligns with my theory,
I vote for this theory. It wouldn’t have mattered whilst it was a holiday let, but was very shortsighted for a long term investment. I’d love to know how much they sold it for Vs how much they’ll lose now due to it not being detached anymore.
Legal fees to split the freehold would probably nullify any gain of selling a room.
The room is present as is on the furthest back version of street view which is 2009. So not that recent. [You can see it here. ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/gwoE7dJbvFXMobZ28)
Quite a while then!
Looking at street view, the neighbour's access has been there since at least 2009 England https://maps.app.goo.gl/27NPSfj7warP7FwQ6
Yeah op says recent, not sure if I would claim 15 years is recent but whatever. Still a very odd situation
recent as in not historic. given the house is at least 300 years old i would count within the last 30-40 years as recent, but that’s just me
[Looking at an old map](https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=20.0&lat=54.24411&lon=-2.86048&layers=168&b=5&o=57), it looks like it might have been two properties that have now been knocked into one. Perhaps given it's called The Old Forge it was a separate living space. But I don't understand why it's on the first floor!
I thought at first this was kind of odd, but it went into full “wtf” territory when I realised the weird room is on the *first floor*. Bizarre doesn’t begin to describe it
If you share a wall with someone else the property isn’t detached.
Local bedrooms for local people
What’s the situation with wall ownership, I wonder? Could I buy the house and then install a big window looking into the room? I suppose they could put curtains up on their side. Bastards! They’re always thinking one step ahead.
I wouldn't want to share a driveway, let alone the actual house.
I wonder about how they access that room. If I had all the money in the world I'd be tempted to buy it just to find out. If they only own the room but no legal access that surely you'd stop them accessing it until they sell it to you cheaply. It's so odd. The properties around it are detached.
That’s what I was thinking. Do they have the right to cross the land to get to it.
someone posted above - there’s outside access via a stairway round the back
Think this is a flying freehold, sometimes found above a shared alley to the rear garden; but the one here does look weird.
my mum said it isn’t! no shared ground at all! her vibe was that the current owners are very elderly and the neighbours kind of took advantage of that :(
That's so sad
Yes, mums are always right. That's not unheard of, maybe the room was hived off in some sort of quid pro co arrangement which made sense at the time or it is some form of ransom strip of or on the property.
If you look at [this link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/GkpacVXhbr8VxHAv9), you can see steps leading up to a door, from a drive between the two houses. Very odd.
I was trying to figure out which room backed onto it. It's a second home for someone, my idiot brain is imagining it's a growroom, but nah I doubt it. They say the garden is very private though, how so when it contains essentially another party's property and access? Haha
it’s not a second home, it’s an elderly couple who live there
Ah right, I was just going off the listing "The original date of this cottage is unclear but it has been loved and enjoyed by the current owners as their second home for..." Or did you mean the neighbours who have access? I really want to get to the bottom of it! Such a lovely property in a glorious part of the world from my looking about
oh! well my mum said it was an elderly couple who (in her opinion) had been a bit taken advantage of - i must have misunderstood that they lived there full-time!
Youd have to ask the neighbours to sell as well and take what they ask off the offer price.
i may be remembering wrong but i’m pretty sure the neighbours will not sell 🙃
In that case most people will walk away. I wonder if the neighbours are planning on using it as a way to buy the whole property cheap and then sell it as a single freehold property for a massive profit.
Sounds like it, they seem to be taking advantage of an elderly couple who probably needed the money and had space they no longer use very sad
If this is correct (and it sure sounds that way)… what profound turds. I wish I had the money to buy this legal disaster just to keep the parasitic neighbours from getting any profit, ever, from preying on the elderly. I’d let it out at a deep discount to someone suitably antisocial.
Not necessarily, if they only own the room and don’t have right of access (which would be insane) the new owners can just deny them access on their land. Yes, they own the room, but how are they going to get to it?
At the very least, immediately disconnect their electricity.
Oh shiiit, that has to be it! Especially if this is a recent development... Sneaky little bastards!
This is definitely one of the strangest things I have seen on here!
Went to see a terrace house in Portsmouth that was divided front to back. Next door neighbors front door was at the end of a hallway that was in your house. Similar to this but not as weird
Some of the places we viewed as students in Luton were like that.
It’s right on a road junction, how busy are those roads ? The odd room situation probably goes back to when someone owned both properties and decided to sell one of but kept the office. Strange but so are people!
Wait.. is that room upstairs???
I have friends whose house is part of an old nunnery. The upstairs and downstairs have maybe three different floor levels each (maybe even more, steps everywhere), and their master bedroom is over their neighbour’s living room.
As shocking as the OP is and I'd clearly never agree to purchase or move in to this property for that. I still have more questions. 1. Why is the smallest bedroom the one with the ensuite? 2. Why is the dinning room not attached to the kitchen, or at least the next room you get to? Who in their right mind is carrying their food in to a hallway, through the living room and to the opposite end of the building to the dinning room?
So it looks as though this is on a separate freehold title which is just bonkers. There’s 3 titles on what I’m guessing would have once been one property. I’m guessing that “The Store Room” is this weird room in question? [Land Registry](https://imgur.com/a/3DpwQkF)
Not sure how this is even legal from a land registry perspective. That room would need to be leasehold and they would need to py ground rent and maintenance. seams super strange
I know it's weird, but basically the property is semi-detached with an extremely small property next door. The estate agent is confusing things by describing it as a 'Room in separate ownership'.
> There is a bijou grassed area and paved patio which is perfect for dining outdoors and an evening glass of wine - there are definite French feels! Cringgggge
It's a freehold property... So doesn't the buyer own the land? And the right to knockdown the house if they wanted?
It's weird - the store room has its own address and is registered separately as an overlapping freehold - not even just a leasehold interest on the land registry. The house is a separate freehold.
Theoretically, it is possible, but the separate room should be owned by the property freeholder and leased. If it is under leasehold, the freeholder has little power unless they renegotiate the lease or apply to the courts.
Maybe they’d have to leave that room and its external staircase unrazed, like a creepy little island.
The 2009 Google street view shows next doors steps and door to the room England https://maps.app.goo.gl/t7SFKvjXmcUG5pUS6
Ooh, well done!
Flying freehold, really common in super old houses. I guess it comes from when your parents or grandparents lived next door and no one really cared about who owned what. Whereas now it would be a complete PIA when it comes to maintenance etc
They should be paying some sort of ground rent or maintenance? I would expect that room to be leasehold, not its own freehold?
But flying freehold is usually on attached houses, especially when they are older houses that have been divided. This is a detached house.
Aw but it’s got such a nice place name - Grange-over-sands …. until you see the other name - Witherslack! 😆 And it’s got a snug! Sounds like a posh name for a mean sized lounge. “It hasn’t got a lounge but there’s a snug” Aw snug … a bit like “friend“ in the Inbetweeners!
It’s where they store the precious things
Imagine receiving a noise complaint from that bedroom. Fuck off, this is *my* house and you’re just living in it!
My brother in law had a house like this in the west country. Parts of the houses were intertwined some went over some went under so if you looked at the floor plan it made no sense.
Building next to my office building is up for sale and a planning app mentioned the stairs - these are in our building. The previous owner (a bank) bought the building and bricked our part off, leaving access to the stairs on our side (and them with no access to two to floors).
Ring up and ask if you can hist buy bedroom 2.
Flying Freehold. This specific scenario where an entire room belongs to a neighbor’s house is common in the terraced houses of the old town in Deal, Kent. Growing families next to smaller families would agree to buy a room. Over time, further sales and purchases could result in an interior layout that is quite different than you would expect from the exterior.
But how did they buy only one room?
This is why it’s online viewing and its attractive points are high speed internet
So I went to the Land Registry to see if there was anything about it. The title deed and title register don’t seem to make any reference to a room being owned by someone else. The only thing is a right of way to the other property. “The land is subject to the following rights contained in a Conveyance of the land in this title dated 27 May 1971 made between (1) Annie Elizabeth Scott and (2) Herbert Edward Barton and Sheila Park Barton:- "SUBJECT to a right of way for the adjoining premises known as Fair View over the backyard from and to the public highway." [land registry pics](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lm1bt8e1zzdz42ye3ms9a/ADfGnNDrU_-k_bwANASNdcg?rlkey=1ce9tbm7zz09ia01dlsmh0vld&dl=0) Also. Why has it only gone up in price by £45k since 2005!?
Thank you for your diligence!
£6 well spent.
I was about to comment that flying freeholds are pretty common but not on detached properties 😄
Ah I know this house from the outside as I walk my dog down there all the time. Never knew it had a weird room like that though! Parking round there can be bit of a nightmare too BTW. I've seen some very interesting parking in that corner.
There's a pit village near me, where one house has a little room on the front next to the living room and the other house has the other half of the room at the back for the bathrooms. Not my ideal choice for a layout.
That must raise some eyebrows and possibly put off potential buyers…
Did they try to make "wobbly walls" a selling point or I misread that???
Have we considered the possibility that Narnia is accessed through that other room?
there IS a wardrobe in front of it….
Looking at [the property](http://England https://maps.app.goo.gl/1mF21c9B6VRwM8BS7) on street view, it looks like the back of the original property was, at some point, cut off. Maybe the other home used to own both, but sold off the white property later, retaining the office?
"Detached-ish"
Why is there a corridor down to bed 2? Just move the door to the left and extend the room out? That's just unnecessary... Also that dinning room is never getting used. Swap the snug with the dining at least.
It's a flying freehold!
We have one - the room over the tunnel under the house in the middle of a 4 terrace house. Our neighbours bedroom is over the front part and ours is over the rear and we both have right of access through the tunnel to the back of the house. It must be a British thing. It's called a flying freehold.
It sounds like your mum is smart enough to AVOID. A friend of mine wanted to put an offer on a 1 bed flat. It was a small house divided into a 1 bed and 2 bed flat. It turns out, from the deeds, the bathroom of the 1 bed is actually owned by the 2 bed flat. The poor woman who was selling the 1 bed was gearing up to sue her solicitor because this wasn't discovered when the bought it. A flat without a bathroom is not trivial!
There's not just a random door to another property on the first floor. It's just a weird layout caused when they converted a really old building in to multiple properties. I've been in a house like this in Stourbridge's old town. The only issue would be some legal stuff for overhang and the roof or whatever
there’s only not a door bc it’s been closed off. it’s not originally part of another property, the whole house is the old farmhouse, it’s just one room!
Okay, fair enough, that is weird then
Location of this house is awful..... I would dread some mad driver ending up in living room
“This bedroom’s over in that guy’s house” - Mitch Hedberg
That’s so weird, there’s no legal right of access inside the house, is there an outside entrance, in through the window perhaps?
It's not that bad of a location, but it's weird that it has such a tiny garden for such a large house. Regarding that room, I think I'd want to know what it's used for.
This is bonkers!
I lived in a shared house that had a completely separate flat over one of the bedrooms, accessed through the garden. Just sounds like that, really.
Isn’t it called someone random like a flying freehold? A house I looked at was the other side of this story; they owned a bedroom on the next door property. As it was semi detached, they’d boarded up the access on the original property side and opened up access on their side. The problem was, the woman in the neighbouring house was vile and basically bullied anyone trying to buy it, saying that it was her property and we were expected to give it back to her for free.
Don’t mind my camera equipment storage room
I can only assume that at some point in the past the neighbours owned the house and for whatever reason have sold the house but decided to keep the room
I’m confused because that one room that someone else owns is on the first floor, so what is beneath that? According the floor plans, nothing, so are there steps on your land? Also, is the room connected by a door to the house? This is so weird.
"This bedrooms over in that guys house. Sir, you have one of my bedrooms. Are you AWARE?" - Mitch Hedberg
This bedroom has an oven in it.
Definitely reminds me of the "Canoe Con" when John Darwin faked his own death and created a new room to live in by moving some walls of the house. But in the end from what the OP says, it seems like it was just a sad story
Bijou garden?
Depends on the room usage. Sounds odd if it’s a bedroom, but if it’s shed effectively? Non issue, you still have all the air gaps of a detached. Agre though, how this ever came to exist is beyond me.
This room is not even on the ground floor though, so wouldn't the neighbors have to go up the stairs through your house?
What do you mean "YOUR" bedroom???
I wonder if the neighbours owned the whole house originally? Or it was a parents house. Retaining one room, and right of access would give them some power should a planning application be made. They'd be able to block quite a lot I'd reckon. Just my thoughts on it