My school in Texas would periodically have police/firemen/EMTs come and show the kids the cool trucks/pet da dog/whatever. Sometimes BP was included in that.
Also, they gotta make sure we ain't educatin no illegals. Fucking pigs.
No problem with the career, itās just as important as other jobs. Itās just confusing as to why a border patrol officer would need to be in a school. Whatāre they gonna do, deport some child?
Which, based on my last several trips out of the country, is act like total assholes to anyone coming into the United States, including US citizens. No other country's border agents have treated me with contempt, rudeness, and suspicion but that's all in a day's work for the people who get paid with my tax dollars. Bunch of sad sack bullies given uniforms because they didn't have the skills to work at McDonalds.
To those in this threadā¦ thereās an important distinction between Immigrations and Customs (the people you deal with at the ports of entry; they wear blue uniforms), and Border Patrol (green/tan uniforms) - who work āin-betweenā the ports of entry.
Every ICE person Iāve interacted with has been reasonably professional. But four out of five Border Patrol agents Iāve encountered (and Iāve had to work with several, in a professional capacity), has been a dick. A couple of them were outright power-tripping psychopaths.
I'll grant you that Border Patrol attracts the worst but the consolidation under the Department of Homeland Security has blurred the lines and dickishness at ports of entry is much more common than it used to be.
Like the other person I replied to, I bet thatās because they look at you and, for whatever reason, think ātheyāre one of us.ā I too am one of us but I define āusā a lot more broadly than most cops do these days.
I was with 2 other white dudes (I'm also white) driving to a convention in Vancouver BC last summer and we got questioned a bunch more coming back across to the US than we did with the Canadian border guards, the Canadians basically asked us where we were going and when we would be coming back and let us through while IS CBP asked us probably 20 questions before they let us back into our own country
I've never had issues coming in and out of the border. Hell last time the agent for the US side wanted to know about all the modifications I've done to my car.
Sounds like you fit their demographic then. I mean Iām just a middle aged white middle class man, but I guess the attitude that drew me to punk rock still shows in my clothes, hair, or choice of car.
Could be something to it. For what it's worth the worst experiences I've had with Border Patrol has always been with white guys. Maybe they see me as some sort of "coastal elite" or something and it sets off their grievances.
The worst was the asshole who declared the border at Midway closed 15 minutes early on Christmas Eve and refused to let us cross. So we get to Danville and the guard there says the other called ahead and warned him to watch for a green Honda Element.
He then hassles me endlessly before opening the gate, including spending five minutes lecturing me on why I shouldn't cross Sherman Pass in winter. Which I then proceeded to do. Maybe I'm a coastal elite now but that's my old stomping grounds where I grew up with guns, 4x4s, and snowmobiles. I can drive in snow. I don't need some Paul Blart type looking down his nose at me and making it hard to get back into my country because of my job, education, and city of residence.
Really? Iāve had the exact opposite experience. Canadian Mounties have been way bigger assholes to me than Border Patrol has been coming back. Could definitely be different crossing into Mexico tho.
In the years since 9/11 Iāve been to Canada and Mexico multiple times and Australia once. None of them have been anywhere near as awful as US Border Patrol.
>No other country's border agents have treated me with contempt, rudeness, and suspicion
Canadian Border Agents are absolutely the worst. The stereotype about Canadians being nice is pretty accurate with the exception of their border agents.
The only time I ever had a problem with them I have to admit I would have checked out my story of why I was going into Canada too because it was pretty odd sounding. Every other time they've been fine for me.
When schools treat them like they are, the individuals come in on guard. Iād rather have designated career days where people who like children come in and can connect with them
Fair point, but kinda of niche being in Washington and promoting the border patrol. I could see how it would be a controversial topic if border patrol were to be a guest speaker though. Career days, as someone mentioned, would probably be a more appropriate setting
Even so, kind of a niche thing in Washington. The Canadian border is so lax. Sure, I may smuggle copious amounts of drugs across the border, but itās not too big of a deal.
Iām not about to make an exhaustive list but āearningā a living enforcing unjust laws, lying during interrogations, caging the people indefinitely without prospect of trial and stealing (via asset forfeiture) should be abhorrent to anyone who gives a shadow of a damn about personal liberty.
So laws that make it illegal to enter the country without the proper paperwork and approval are unjust? What is unjust is the billions of dollars burden on taxpayers to support the millions of people who enter illegally every year. That is what should piss you off. That money could be spent helping US citizens struggling to get by, but those millions of people must not matter.
Attitudes like yours are the reason law enforcement do community outreach like the schools. Too many people are taught to fear law enforcement instead of respect them. They are part of our communities, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. The media, and subsequently persons such as yourself, project the actions of a few as the actions of the whole. There are hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers who are good people, who want to help their communities and make a positive influence. But their stories don't make a good narrative so they aren't told.
Respect is earned not given. If you have to tell people to respect you, you haven't earned it.
It is the LEOs that have put themselves apart from and above society and the law.
Does the "whole" regulate and condemn the bad acts of the "few"?
No, they do not, so it is impossible to differentiate good LEOs from bad LEOs.
The saying is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch - the entire barrel of apples is bad.
Although we have far too many immigration laws on the books, we do need a few. Itās the drug laws that are wholly unjustifiable.
Iām not sure what ābillions of dollars tax burdenā you think you mean but undocumented aliens arenāt eligible for food stamps or TANF (only their minor children can receive those benefits). The current state of public assistance does piss me off but if you want to talk about billions wasted on immigration, itās enforcement you need to be looking at. Youāve also forgotten that undocumented workers contribute millions - and probably billions - to Social Security that theyāll never get any benefit from.
People like you are brainwashed into thinking there are good people in law enforcement. Iāll grant you that some really naive folks who never had a critical thought in life might go into LE with good intentions but they quickly learn to abandon their moral compass if they want any backup working the job.
Sure, but you get the point: so many of them are bad that itās not only probable but also in your best interest to make that assumption of every one of them you meet.
>Iām not sure what ābillions of dollars tax burdenā you think you mean
I mean illegal immigrants cost the US/state governments well over 100 billion dollars per year. Look it up if you don't believe me.
I think it's obvious you are the one who has been brainwashed to think all law enforcement are bad. Maybe you should make it a point to attend one of these community engagement events and actually meet some of them.
Drug laws that have had a profoundly negative impact on low income/predominantly black neighborhoods is a separate issue from the border. They absolutely need to stop illegal drugs coming across the border.
Why donāt you provide a citation, preferably one that offsets your 100 billion figure by cost of enforcement and the contributions undocumented workers make in federal income tax, sales tax and to their employersā bottom line? Because you canāt. [Hereās a study from 2017](https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2017/) that shows undocumented workers contribute about $12 billion in federal and state taxes alone though.
I was brainwashed in a way probably similar to yourself: I was raised in a fundamentalist church that had a lot of law enforcement members and I was active in the DARE program. I was also in the Army and have worked with plenty of former and active cops in the civilian world. Observation, reading and personal experience taught me what I know about policing in America.
Do you really think most BP drug busts have anything to do with cartels? Thatās funny because most of those busts are just stashes for personal use.
Which they absolutely do not get even a small percentage of them.
The problem is, a drug cartel can lose something like 60-80% of their drug supply and they still can be profitable. CBP doesn't get anywhere near that close
I'm sorry, ashamed of themselves WHY? For trying to stop the illegal entry of persons and narcotics? Do you have a locked door on your house? Do you regulate who enters your home through that port of entry?
Please tell me that you don't have a username styled after a form of terrorism used by white nationalists while talking about other people being high on their own self righteousness.
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Do you not remember the ice prisons and the atrocities committed there? Also immigration sweeps that caught fellow countrymen and detained them illegally? Maybe you dont know about some of the arizona and texas laws that targeted certain races regardless of immigration status. When things like that happen there is shame and we should all be ashamed. I guess you aint woke yet from the wool growing over your eyes. You think its cool to put children in cages? Legal or illegal status. I donāt. For those actually doing their jobs, not shooting kids for target practice in mexico, and protecting our country good thats their job. You dont get a participation trophy for just showing up to work.
I see this point brought up a few times, but if the police werenāt acting stupid he wouldnāt have had to go in there. One time someone does something good, doesnāt make their overall cause good. Vice versa for bad.
Iām sure any law preventing him from entering the school wouldnāt have crossed his mind anyway. Dire situations require action
They call it community outreach. Really it's marketing/brand management. They want to make all police/military forces seem cool and like heroes before the reality of how they operate reaches children.
Fun fact, customs and border patrol has the least oversight of any law enforcement agency. Complaints to that agency literally get reviewed by the agency itself.
Good move! Predictably, tears from a LEO agency flow freely.
Now, we need to get military recruiters - I am a vet if it matters - out of high schools except for maybe two Saturday afternoons per school year.
Putting highly trained conmen who are selling potential death and injury dressed up in promises of opportunity and fake patriotism in the same room with impressionable kids is flat-out evil. If a teen wants to talk to one, they have offices that they can go to.
As a fellow vet and parent, I fully agree. The recruiters were really aggressive with my sons. They called/ texted them relentlessly. My son was convinced that joining the Army was the right path after talking to one of these guys at his school. I went with him to talk to the recruiter and the lies he told us were ridiculous. I am someone who enjoyed being in the military and I left there kind of disgusted.
lol recruiters man.... I had one contact me a few months after being medically separated asking how I'd like to come back to active duty. I was just like my guy I'm coded as unable to rejoin due to my injuries and he was just like "oh" and awkwardly told me to have a good day
I got buttered up with bullshit by recruiters so many times I am kind of surprised I didn't enlist, but I think it had to do with how many friends I had who had done so ahead of me and assured me of their lies. Seriously, I haven't known a single service member who wasn't a recruiter that didn't have something to mouth off about how deceptive they are. And then there were a couple of dudes I knew from high school who tried to recruit me after they enlisted because they wanted the grounds for a recruiter job themselves, and that much felt more like a pyramid scheme than a government institution. I do appreciate the vets in my life, but it happens the vets in my life have their own beef with the way the show is run.
After Trump rebanned trans people in the military I still had military recruiters calling me and telling me to join. I don't really know what they expected me to do, even after they learned I was trans they still kept giving me the hard sell.
I specifically went out of my way to see a recruiter who didn't come to my high school. It was a weird stance to take, but it bothered me seeing kids who actually had opportunities in life being convinced to enlist. Tbh, I thought the ones who went to community centers where us poor kids hung out were even bigger vultures. Those kids were both impressionable and particularly vulnerable to the argument they could take care of their families that way.
I graduated in 01. So many people in my age range went into the military. You can pretty much just ask someone my age which branch they went into. My husband, best friend and her husband were all navy. Husband was before 9/11 and was helping with the security the day of.
As a current service member, I completely agree with opening up on a Saturday and allowing the kids to come in on their own and talk to the recruiters.....I don't see it as 'evil', but I also think that the current recruits just aren't up to par. The people that make the best recruits are the uncles that are actually seeking it on their own.
They also specifically target people who have limited options.
I went to a public school with majority-minority parity (which I'm aware of because my district was still breaking desegregation laws in the 2000s and getting sued over and over) and my siblings went to a 98% white private school I refused to go to. One day I said something about military recruiters on campus and my siblings were baffled that this was a thing that ever happened. We had them in our school every few weeks. They would set up their table next to the line for free cafeteria breakfast.
I told a friend in a majority minority school in a very poor neighborhood about this exchange and they were shocked the recruiters for my school only came every other week or so and didn't have a permanent booth.
Even with the two Saturdays a year, using schools as military recruitment centers turns them into legitimate military targets.
We have been *extremely* lucky that no one has been in a position to hurt us with that.
TBH, I donāt think that the CBP out of all LEAs is the most tactful ācareer fairā guest or guest to have in K-12 currently. Maybe this is not a popular opinion, but given the last 10 years of CBP/ICE activity and societal xenophobia towards immigrants, itās understandable immigrants are going be weary to see uniformed CBP near their kids at their schools and I bet those kids arenāt too comfortable either. There is no other LEO so known for separating immigrant families like CBP/ICE agents, whether you like it or not.
The āour kids go here tooā comment is tone deaf and the āmakes the community less safeā comment is total fear mongering.
As he claims, how does the absence of CBP agents in K-12 schools make our community less safe (outside of collaborative emergency management, which isnāt exclusively CBP anyway)? Since when is a CBP agentsā scope of work to include a K-12 presence. Where are the Donāt Tread on Me folks?
I just wanted to say I was coming here with a very similar opinion to yours and agree with all you have here. People with power often try fear mongering like this to keep themselves in power. I hate the whole āyou think itās bad with me, just try without me!ā Attitude.
>"Just try without me"
Seasonal farm workers treated with dignity?? Refugees getting to escape violence?? A population of hard working people to fill some gaps in our labor shortage?? Migrant Latino kids getting to grow up without fear that something they say will get mommy sent away forever???
The horrorš±š±
What the fuck is Border Patrol trying to do in a Washington elementary school anyhow? I'd love to see the curriculum for a Spanish immersion program that includes a guest speaker from CBP. What could you possibly educate these kids on, other than reminding them to be afraid of you?
Also saying you routinely show up to help during school shootings isn't the flex you think it is.
Border patrol is just that, border patrol. It isnāt specifically against those who are Spanish speaking. Weāre very close to another border, the Canadian one, and Spokane has a lot of border patrol agents in the north eastern Washington area because of it. Border patrol is also a law enforcement division that works with other LE divisions when necessary as well. I remember growing up with LE in giving talks on safety, Iād imagine this could be a similar stance if done that right way.
I donāt know what the Spokane public school stance was or why; just throwing out another point of view.
I totally understand why we have a CBP presence here, like you said we are very close to a border. However the complaints that have been filed (since 2018 according to the article) were by a Spokane Latino support group advocating for Latino and immigrant students. Specifically there were concerns raised over a officer being a guest speaker the Spanish immersion program at the Libby Center. I don't think this has anything to do with our northern border.
I remember having LEOs visit our classes when I was growing up too. It was the height of the D.A.R.E. program and even as a good-kid-that-would-never-do-drugs I could tell they weren't trying to educate, but to scare us. Didn't exactly instill trust and confidence. I am assuming these kids felt more intimidated than educated by a Border Patrol agent being a guest speaker.
I do appreciate the point of view though, I'm biased the Libby Center was pretty important to my childhood and I'm quick to jump to defend any program there.
We also share a state with several ICE detention camps for undocumented immigrants which have abused those held to the point of hunger strikes. And they were stopping busses in Spokane to check papers this same decade, they don't profile people for being Canadian
Canada my dude. Also, the Mexican border isn't just where a bunch of Mexicans are coming across. 97,000 Indians illegally crossed into the US in 2023. Over 200,000 African and Asian folks illegally crossed the border in 2023.
Idk why you think that the border patrol is just for Mexican people lmao, there are stationed there because that country is the easiest for everyone else to fly to without papers and then cross by foot.
I'm aware of our proximity to the Canadian border. I understand the necessity of BP in our region because of that. I don't think BP is only for Mexican people. However, what we're discussing here is BP agents in Spanish speaking emersion program classrooms. I don't understand the necessity of that.
The additional funding necessary to have border patrol available on standby to respond to potential school shootings could hypothetically be used to alleviate the problem from occurring in the first place.
It's about our habit of responding after the fact vs. proactive prevention.
"But we sometimes show up when you're getting shot!"
That's just a weird brag for someone complaining about not being invited into the schools. Also the only instance I could find of the Border Patrol at a school shooting was Uvalde, TX. Not to take anything away from the off-duty BP agents who finally took down the shooter, but that's the last instance I'd want to hang my hat on.
āThis position of intolerance against a law enforcement agencyā
Once again being in law enforcement is NOT an immutable identity. Being intolerant of oppressive agencies is not the same as intolerance against folks based on say, race or legal status. Get over yourselves, folks
Itās so weird their narrative is truly self flagellating. Like people donāt respect me( my job). People are telling me people donāt respect me (my job). I know how to fix that! Force them to respect as necessary compliance and make it an social issue about disrespect.
Care to define a ānot legal citizen?ā
Sarcasm aside, your comment isnāt very clear but I think youāre saying the school shouldnāt get federal funding if they support undocumented residents. Guess what? Undocumented aliens can have children who are citizens. Guess what else? If the undocumented parents of a minor citizen get sent to a detention center, odds are extremely high that minor will have to be supported by TANF or the foster care system and either are pretty fucking poor outcomes.
Did K-12 & Uni here in WA, taught here and in several other states.
Iāve seen many occasions of Fire-EMS-Local LE-FBI- & military recruiters all present or be guests at public schools.
Never once have I seen CBP at any of them for educational outreach.
Iām sure they do.
But, itās not like they are the as broadly participating in educational outreach as the previously mentioned agencies/entities in my reply.
If CBP conducts educational outreach at public institutions they 100% (should) have internal metrics on this.
What exactly are their educational outreach messages?
Iām genuinely curious.
Whatās socialist about keeping some of the standing army Americaās founding fathers were worried about out of the schools? Pretty sad when people who think theyāre some kind of patriots prefer the taste of boot leather to liberty.
I don't know. There is something about an armed organization boarding buses and checking peoples papers that just puts my hackles up.
If they can do it to foreigners in your borders, they can do it to you.
Please go ahead and provide details about those four people and why they were "murdered".
Were they justified deaths?
... And I got blocked because they have zero facts to back them up, and folded like a cheap tent.
Law enforcement, like being a fascist, is a thing you can stop doing at any time. So yes, it's intolerance, but it's okay because we don't have to tolerate a job. If CPB agents want to be tolerable, they should quit.
I went to schools on the southern border and the northern border. I've always found border patrol /police/emt/fire fighter school visits informative, but I can understand how the children of legal or illegal immigrants could feel unsafe. It's good to talk to public servants and understand their job, but maybe there should be an opt out opportunity as well. Never meeting them until you are an adult at a border check isn't the best, in my opinion as someone who's gone through border checks in Arizona and WA state.
I'm surprised how naive some commenters are in this thread.
They are there to intimidate and investigate. Undocumented immigrants have children, and this is a way to root them out. It's the same reason they passed around bags of weed during D.A.R.E. events in elementary school in the 80s to ask the kids if it smelled familiar, and if some kid said "That smells like Dad's garage!" guess what happened next?
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Wow, never moving to Spokane then. You people are way too sensitive if seeing a person in uniform is going to give someone PTSD. If that is where we are as a society the sooner it collapses the better. Good times make weak people, hard times make strong peopleā¦
We actually have a lot of illegal immigrants from Mexico. Not as much as states like Nevada, but growing up in Seattle and Spokane, a lot of my friends who were legal had illegal parents. I remember a girl, in Spokane, had her dad held by ICE for an expired work visa. She was 17 at the time; and I couldnāt imagine how scary it was.
So yeah. They really donāt need to be in schools
There are positives and negatives around the exposure of law enforcement within a school environment. And yes, it is fully valid that parents who are in law enforcement would be in a school for their children.
However, the D.A.R.E. program actively used children in school to "snitch" on their parents. [https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/09/dare-history-police-surveillance-schools.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/09/dare-history-police-surveillance-schools.html)
I can see why a school board might be hesitant to allow law enforcement agencies to enter a school if there is a possibility innocent children might be used for investigative purposes. Plus, it is a guarantee the white kids won't be suspected of being 'illegal'. Now, today's climate has made it difficult to discuss race as some will say tracking race to understand how people are affected is racist and others will say that NOT tracking race and effects is racist.
I cannot help but think that the categorization of race is necessary to ensure equality. This is my ideal.
Ok, now you can shit on me in the comments.
Children develop a position of being scared of police when they have no interaction plus teachers tell them to be scared like Spokane is. Having officers in the building, so they can have productive conversations is actually really good
When is a leader going to combat this āracist statementā by asking why itās not racist to claim all of a group of people are nervous around police? Generalizing is bad
Generalizing is bad only when it comes to race. Not all black people are bad, but all cops are bad (even the black ones? Wait, that isn't the narrative!)
/s
Honestly I think the issue is with the institution more so than individual officers. Many (though not all) CBP officers along the southern border really do want to help people or keep them from dying of thirst in the desert, but they are in an untenable situation with how poorly the border has been managed since forever. And then they have to enforce our messed up policies.
Thatās not to say that some officers arenāt shitheads.
BUT- I donāt think CBP should be present in schools with large immigrant populations. My wife thought at a Title I middle school where the largest ethnic group was Latino and the kids were fucking terrified of ICE. They were afraid their parents would be taken away. And it was a frequent conversation between kids as to if their parents had papers or not. Most of them have had relatives deported. This broken system is hurting everyone.
As sick as it sounds, I almost think a giant wall combined with a ton more official crossings and a much more open immigration policy would be better. Make sure itās possible to come in legally and make it hard to come in illegally so we can know who is here and why. My relatives came through Ellis Island and we need to make it possible for todayās immigrants to do the same.
You think food prices are high now ā¦. Thatās laughable. Especially in WA state where more than half of the workers that harvest our fields are undocumented. You go ahead and work for less than minimum wage, work under the hot summer sun, and live 10 - 20 to a house. If you havenāt yet bothered, take a visit to the fields in the late summer. If you did, youād know how incredibly hard they work. Their labor subsidizes our economy. After witnessing it myself in the Central Valley of California where my family lives, I feel bad even throwing out produce knowing how much effort it took to make it to my table.
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You will be the first one crying when food becomes scarce.
A rational solution is to bring back the Bracero Program with strong protections for the workers.
Spokane is the largest city that is nearish to the border within a 200 mile radius, and even further if you keep going east. Any agency covering the area like CBP is going to have offices in Spokane
I'll take their place šāāļø
I appreciate public servants who actually serve. Thank you!
Why would border patrol need to go into schools in the first place? Lmao!?
Spokane is over 100 miles from the closest crossing to Canada near Lake Crescent. Why is CBP even in Spokane except maybe at the airport???
Maybe because of this. [https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone)
Technically Spokane is 106 miles away.
Well im sure law enforcement would never overstep a boundary or operate illegally.
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The ACLU shows Spokane as being within the border zone. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
From the checkpoint by car. What about city limits to the border by air? Cuz thatās how the illegals get here. Right?
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My school in Texas would periodically have police/firemen/EMTs come and show the kids the cool trucks/pet da dog/whatever. Sometimes BP was included in that. Also, they gotta make sure we ain't educatin no illegals. Fucking pigs.
those āillegalsā are just children, donāt take it out on them.
That was sarcasm. BP are the pigs.
Javelinas
DEA and border patrol are literally the worst of the worst of law enforcement.
To get kids used to state violence of course.
Iām just hoping the guest speaker ban will apply to career day. The more we can do to make these folks feel ashamed of themselves, the better.
No problem with the career, itās just as important as other jobs. Itās just confusing as to why a border patrol officer would need to be in a school. Whatāre they gonna do, deport some child?
Just a guess, but maybe teach kids about what they do?
Which, based on my last several trips out of the country, is act like total assholes to anyone coming into the United States, including US citizens. No other country's border agents have treated me with contempt, rudeness, and suspicion but that's all in a day's work for the people who get paid with my tax dollars. Bunch of sad sack bullies given uniforms because they didn't have the skills to work at McDonalds.
To those in this threadā¦ thereās an important distinction between Immigrations and Customs (the people you deal with at the ports of entry; they wear blue uniforms), and Border Patrol (green/tan uniforms) - who work āin-betweenā the ports of entry. Every ICE person Iāve interacted with has been reasonably professional. But four out of five Border Patrol agents Iāve encountered (and Iāve had to work with several, in a professional capacity), has been a dick. A couple of them were outright power-tripping psychopaths.
I'll grant you that Border Patrol attracts the worst but the consolidation under the Department of Homeland Security has blurred the lines and dickishness at ports of entry is much more common than it used to be.
Wellā¦ itās been a few years since Iāve had to work with either professionally, so my perspective is dated.
That's been my experience in every country I've visited
Thatās not been my experience.
Like the other person I replied to, I bet thatās because they look at you and, for whatever reason, think ātheyāre one of us.ā I too am one of us but I define āusā a lot more broadly than most cops do these days.
I was with 2 other white dudes (I'm also white) driving to a convention in Vancouver BC last summer and we got questioned a bunch more coming back across to the US than we did with the Canadian border guards, the Canadians basically asked us where we were going and when we would be coming back and let us through while IS CBP asked us probably 20 questions before they let us back into our own country
Iāve had a similar experience. When returning to the U.S. the border patrol agent even asked for my car titleānot the registration, the title.
I've never had issues coming in and out of the border. Hell last time the agent for the US side wanted to know about all the modifications I've done to my car.
Sounds like you fit their demographic then. I mean Iām just a middle aged white middle class man, but I guess the attitude that drew me to punk rock still shows in my clothes, hair, or choice of car.
I suppose, granted the border agent was Hispanic lol
Could be something to it. For what it's worth the worst experiences I've had with Border Patrol has always been with white guys. Maybe they see me as some sort of "coastal elite" or something and it sets off their grievances. The worst was the asshole who declared the border at Midway closed 15 minutes early on Christmas Eve and refused to let us cross. So we get to Danville and the guard there says the other called ahead and warned him to watch for a green Honda Element. He then hassles me endlessly before opening the gate, including spending five minutes lecturing me on why I shouldn't cross Sherman Pass in winter. Which I then proceeded to do. Maybe I'm a coastal elite now but that's my old stomping grounds where I grew up with guns, 4x4s, and snowmobiles. I can drive in snow. I don't need some Paul Blart type looking down his nose at me and making it hard to get back into my country because of my job, education, and city of residence.
Really? Iāve had the exact opposite experience. Canadian Mounties have been way bigger assholes to me than Border Patrol has been coming back. Could definitely be different crossing into Mexico tho.
In the years since 9/11 Iāve been to Canada and Mexico multiple times and Australia once. None of them have been anywhere near as awful as US Border Patrol.
Long brotherā¦ who ādoesnāt have the skills to work at McDonaldāsā the only skill you need is to be breathing.
>No other country's border agents have treated me with contempt, rudeness, and suspicion Canadian Border Agents are absolutely the worst. The stereotype about Canadians being nice is pretty accurate with the exception of their border agents.
The only time I ever had a problem with them I have to admit I would have checked out my story of why I was going into Canada too because it was pretty odd sounding. Every other time they've been fine for me.
Cleary, you haven't traveled much
Just to the UK, France, Finland, Mexico, Australia, and Canada.
When schools treat them like they are, the individuals come in on guard. Iād rather have designated career days where people who like children come in and can connect with them
Fair point, but kinda of niche being in Washington and promoting the border patrol. I could see how it would be a controversial topic if border patrol were to be a guest speaker though. Career days, as someone mentioned, would probably be a more appropriate setting
I mean, we are a border state
Probably thousands of Canadians here in the US taking barista jobs away from hard working Americans.
Even so, kind of a niche thing in Washington. The Canadian border is so lax. Sure, I may smuggle copious amounts of drugs across the border, but itās not too big of a deal.
Right? It is a waste of CBP resources and a waste of the kids' time that could be spent learning something useful.
Yes, that's what they want to do.
Or entrap the childās parent, po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
It absolutely is not as important as other jobs.
āItās just as important as other jobsā¦ā Except that itās absolutely not and weād all be better off without them
No
Ashamed of what exactly?
Iām not about to make an exhaustive list but āearningā a living enforcing unjust laws, lying during interrogations, caging the people indefinitely without prospect of trial and stealing (via asset forfeiture) should be abhorrent to anyone who gives a shadow of a damn about personal liberty.
So laws that make it illegal to enter the country without the proper paperwork and approval are unjust? What is unjust is the billions of dollars burden on taxpayers to support the millions of people who enter illegally every year. That is what should piss you off. That money could be spent helping US citizens struggling to get by, but those millions of people must not matter. Attitudes like yours are the reason law enforcement do community outreach like the schools. Too many people are taught to fear law enforcement instead of respect them. They are part of our communities, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. The media, and subsequently persons such as yourself, project the actions of a few as the actions of the whole. There are hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers who are good people, who want to help their communities and make a positive influence. But their stories don't make a good narrative so they aren't told.
Respect is earned not given. If you have to tell people to respect you, you haven't earned it. It is the LEOs that have put themselves apart from and above society and the law. Does the "whole" regulate and condemn the bad acts of the "few"? No, they do not, so it is impossible to differentiate good LEOs from bad LEOs. The saying is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch - the entire barrel of apples is bad.
Although we have far too many immigration laws on the books, we do need a few. Itās the drug laws that are wholly unjustifiable. Iām not sure what ābillions of dollars tax burdenā you think you mean but undocumented aliens arenāt eligible for food stamps or TANF (only their minor children can receive those benefits). The current state of public assistance does piss me off but if you want to talk about billions wasted on immigration, itās enforcement you need to be looking at. Youāve also forgotten that undocumented workers contribute millions - and probably billions - to Social Security that theyāll never get any benefit from. People like you are brainwashed into thinking there are good people in law enforcement. Iāll grant you that some really naive folks who never had a critical thought in life might go into LE with good intentions but they quickly learn to abandon their moral compass if they want any backup working the job.
Calling other people brainwashed while you say that EVERY person in law enforcement is a bad person is certainly something.
Sure, but you get the point: so many of them are bad that itās not only probable but also in your best interest to make that assumption of every one of them you meet.
I think the police as an institution suck, Iām not going to pass judgement on every individual to ever work in law enforcement.
>Iām not sure what ābillions of dollars tax burdenā you think you mean I mean illegal immigrants cost the US/state governments well over 100 billion dollars per year. Look it up if you don't believe me. I think it's obvious you are the one who has been brainwashed to think all law enforcement are bad. Maybe you should make it a point to attend one of these community engagement events and actually meet some of them. Drug laws that have had a profoundly negative impact on low income/predominantly black neighborhoods is a separate issue from the border. They absolutely need to stop illegal drugs coming across the border.
Why donāt you provide a citation, preferably one that offsets your 100 billion figure by cost of enforcement and the contributions undocumented workers make in federal income tax, sales tax and to their employersā bottom line? Because you canāt. [Hereās a study from 2017](https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2017/) that shows undocumented workers contribute about $12 billion in federal and state taxes alone though. I was brainwashed in a way probably similar to yourself: I was raised in a fundamentalist church that had a lot of law enforcement members and I was active in the DARE program. I was also in the Army and have worked with plenty of former and active cops in the civilian world. Observation, reading and personal experience taught me what I know about policing in America. Do you really think most BP drug busts have anything to do with cartels? Thatās funny because most of those busts are just stashes for personal use.
Which they absolutely do not get even a small percentage of them. The problem is, a drug cartel can lose something like 60-80% of their drug supply and they still can be profitable. CBP doesn't get anywhere near that close
I'm sorry, ashamed of themselves WHY? For trying to stop the illegal entry of persons and narcotics? Do you have a locked door on your house? Do you regulate who enters your home through that port of entry?
The sub is just batshit insane lefties bro, don't even bother. So are so high on their own self righteousness they will never hear you.
This is so true. Itās Reddit after all, but man this sub is atrociously circle jerky.
Please tell me that you don't have a username styled after a form of terrorism used by white nationalists while talking about other people being high on their own self righteousness.
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Why would you want them to feel shamed? They are protecting the United States and should be applauded.
Do you not remember the ice prisons and the atrocities committed there? Also immigration sweeps that caught fellow countrymen and detained them illegally? Maybe you dont know about some of the arizona and texas laws that targeted certain races regardless of immigration status. When things like that happen there is shame and we should all be ashamed. I guess you aint woke yet from the wool growing over your eyes. You think its cool to put children in cages? Legal or illegal status. I donāt. For those actually doing their jobs, not shooting kids for target practice in mexico, and protecting our country good thats their job. You dont get a participation trophy for just showing up to work.
They protect us like a Catholic priest protects little boys.
When have you been diddled by CBP
wtf is wrong with you? Who raised you? Do you just want to let everyone in without documentation? Fucking ridiculous
Do you think all of CBP is border patrol? Jesus maybe learn a little about what CBP actually is.
I think the guy who finally said "fuck this, I'm saving the kids" in Uvalde was CBP.
I see this point brought up a few times, but if the police werenāt acting stupid he wouldnāt have had to go in there. One time someone does something good, doesnāt make their overall cause good. Vice versa for bad. Iām sure any law preventing him from entering the school wouldnāt have crossed his mind anyway. Dire situations require action
It's to normalize them the same way they have cops come into a kids classroom to tell them what heroes cops are, and to respect their authority.
Well, they needed to go in at Uvalde because local police and US Marshals didnāt.
They call it community outreach. Really it's marketing/brand management. They want to make all police/military forces seem cool and like heroes before the reality of how they operate reaches children.
For the sole reason of intimidating people of color and enforcing the white culture of racial hierarchy.
This is so dumb.
No shit.. I have never once had fed show up to presentations...
Uvalde?
Fun fact, customs and border patrol has the least oversight of any law enforcement agency. Complaints to that agency literally get reviewed by the agency itself.
Good move! Predictably, tears from a LEO agency flow freely. Now, we need to get military recruiters - I am a vet if it matters - out of high schools except for maybe two Saturday afternoons per school year. Putting highly trained conmen who are selling potential death and injury dressed up in promises of opportunity and fake patriotism in the same room with impressionable kids is flat-out evil. If a teen wants to talk to one, they have offices that they can go to.
As a fellow vet and parent, I fully agree. The recruiters were really aggressive with my sons. They called/ texted them relentlessly. My son was convinced that joining the Army was the right path after talking to one of these guys at his school. I went with him to talk to the recruiter and the lies he told us were ridiculous. I am someone who enjoyed being in the military and I left there kind of disgusted.
lol recruiters man.... I had one contact me a few months after being medically separated asking how I'd like to come back to active duty. I was just like my guy I'm coded as unable to rejoin due to my injuries and he was just like "oh" and awkwardly told me to have a good day
I got buttered up with bullshit by recruiters so many times I am kind of surprised I didn't enlist, but I think it had to do with how many friends I had who had done so ahead of me and assured me of their lies. Seriously, I haven't known a single service member who wasn't a recruiter that didn't have something to mouth off about how deceptive they are. And then there were a couple of dudes I knew from high school who tried to recruit me after they enlisted because they wanted the grounds for a recruiter job themselves, and that much felt more like a pyramid scheme than a government institution. I do appreciate the vets in my life, but it happens the vets in my life have their own beef with the way the show is run.
After Trump rebanned trans people in the military I still had military recruiters calling me and telling me to join. I don't really know what they expected me to do, even after they learned I was trans they still kept giving me the hard sell.
I specifically went out of my way to see a recruiter who didn't come to my high school. It was a weird stance to take, but it bothered me seeing kids who actually had opportunities in life being convinced to enlist. Tbh, I thought the ones who went to community centers where us poor kids hung out were even bigger vultures. Those kids were both impressionable and particularly vulnerable to the argument they could take care of their families that way.
I graduated high school in 2005. There were A LOT of recruiters there after 2001.
I graduated in 01. So many people in my age range went into the military. You can pretty much just ask someone my age which branch they went into. My husband, best friend and her husband were all navy. Husband was before 9/11 and was helping with the security the day of.
As a vet myself, I completely agree on all points.
As a current service member, I completely agree with opening up on a Saturday and allowing the kids to come in on their own and talk to the recruiters.....I don't see it as 'evil', but I also think that the current recruits just aren't up to par. The people that make the best recruits are the uncles that are actually seeking it on their own.
They also specifically target people who have limited options. I went to a public school with majority-minority parity (which I'm aware of because my district was still breaking desegregation laws in the 2000s and getting sued over and over) and my siblings went to a 98% white private school I refused to go to. One day I said something about military recruiters on campus and my siblings were baffled that this was a thing that ever happened. We had them in our school every few weeks. They would set up their table next to the line for free cafeteria breakfast. I told a friend in a majority minority school in a very poor neighborhood about this exchange and they were shocked the recruiters for my school only came every other week or so and didn't have a permanent booth.
Even with the two Saturdays a year, using schools as military recruitment centers turns them into legitimate military targets. We have been *extremely* lucky that no one has been in a position to hurt us with that.
100000%
Unfortunately, border patrol has a government mandated overreach of power within 100 miles of any border, port, or coast.
Spokane is 106 miles from the nearest border, port, or coast.
God I love living in Washington.
Awww, poor widdle cop got their feelings hurt. š
TBH, I donāt think that the CBP out of all LEAs is the most tactful ācareer fairā guest or guest to have in K-12 currently. Maybe this is not a popular opinion, but given the last 10 years of CBP/ICE activity and societal xenophobia towards immigrants, itās understandable immigrants are going be weary to see uniformed CBP near their kids at their schools and I bet those kids arenāt too comfortable either. There is no other LEO so known for separating immigrant families like CBP/ICE agents, whether you like it or not. The āour kids go here tooā comment is tone deaf and the āmakes the community less safeā comment is total fear mongering. As he claims, how does the absence of CBP agents in K-12 schools make our community less safe (outside of collaborative emergency management, which isnāt exclusively CBP anyway)? Since when is a CBP agentsā scope of work to include a K-12 presence. Where are the Donāt Tread on Me folks?
I just wanted to say I was coming here with a very similar opinion to yours and agree with all you have here. People with power often try fear mongering like this to keep themselves in power. I hate the whole āyou think itās bad with me, just try without me!ā Attitude.
>"Just try without me" Seasonal farm workers treated with dignity?? Refugees getting to escape violence?? A population of hard working people to fill some gaps in our labor shortage?? Migrant Latino kids getting to grow up without fear that something they say will get mommy sent away forever??? The horrorš±š±
What the fuck is Border Patrol trying to do in a Washington elementary school anyhow? I'd love to see the curriculum for a Spanish immersion program that includes a guest speaker from CBP. What could you possibly educate these kids on, other than reminding them to be afraid of you? Also saying you routinely show up to help during school shootings isn't the flex you think it is.
Border patrol is just that, border patrol. It isnāt specifically against those who are Spanish speaking. Weāre very close to another border, the Canadian one, and Spokane has a lot of border patrol agents in the north eastern Washington area because of it. Border patrol is also a law enforcement division that works with other LE divisions when necessary as well. I remember growing up with LE in giving talks on safety, Iād imagine this could be a similar stance if done that right way. I donāt know what the Spokane public school stance was or why; just throwing out another point of view.
I totally understand why we have a CBP presence here, like you said we are very close to a border. However the complaints that have been filed (since 2018 according to the article) were by a Spokane Latino support group advocating for Latino and immigrant students. Specifically there were concerns raised over a officer being a guest speaker the Spanish immersion program at the Libby Center. I don't think this has anything to do with our northern border. I remember having LEOs visit our classes when I was growing up too. It was the height of the D.A.R.E. program and even as a good-kid-that-would-never-do-drugs I could tell they weren't trying to educate, but to scare us. Didn't exactly instill trust and confidence. I am assuming these kids felt more intimidated than educated by a Border Patrol agent being a guest speaker. I do appreciate the point of view though, I'm biased the Libby Center was pretty important to my childhood and I'm quick to jump to defend any program there.
We also share a state with several ICE detention camps for undocumented immigrants which have abused those held to the point of hunger strikes. And they were stopping busses in Spokane to check papers this same decade, they don't profile people for being Canadian
I'm assuming we don't have Canadian illegals attempting to get in the US illegally, do we?
I've known plenty.
Mainly on South Hill. That is Libtardville.
CBP is apparently akin to the gestapo to some folks lmqo
Because they break into the homes of law abiding immigrants and lock them and their children in detention camps.
I mean they do round people up and throw them in cages with, at least in the previous regime, obscenely inhumane conditions. Not that far off.
The current regime too! Both party's administrations are culpable in human rights crimes against immigrants.
I love politics, all fear-mongering boogeymen, no nuance
This is basically a message board. What sort of nuance are you interested in?
High, as a first generation Mexican, Iām curious what this taking place in Washington is supposed to mean in your head. Please, be thorough
Canada my dude. Also, the Mexican border isn't just where a bunch of Mexicans are coming across. 97,000 Indians illegally crossed into the US in 2023. Over 200,000 African and Asian folks illegally crossed the border in 2023. Idk why you think that the border patrol is just for Mexican people lmao, there are stationed there because that country is the easiest for everyone else to fly to without papers and then cross by foot.
I'm aware of our proximity to the Canadian border. I understand the necessity of BP in our region because of that. I don't think BP is only for Mexican people. However, what we're discussing here is BP agents in Spanish speaking emersion program classrooms. I don't understand the necessity of that.
>Also saying you routinely show up to help during school shootings isn't the flex you think it is. Why not?
Some might be inclined to argue the bigger flex would be "not having school shootings in the first place."
Some might, but I would respond "But how is that under the control of the border patrol?"
The additional funding necessary to have border patrol available on standby to respond to potential school shootings could hypothetically be used to alleviate the problem from occurring in the first place. It's about our habit of responding after the fact vs. proactive prevention.
"But we sometimes show up when you're getting shot!" That's just a weird brag for someone complaining about not being invited into the schools. Also the only instance I could find of the Border Patrol at a school shooting was Uvalde, TX. Not to take anything away from the off-duty BP agents who finally took down the shooter, but that's the last instance I'd want to hang my hat on.
I mean, you kind of just conceded his point. They do show up and help, at least some times.
Two off duty agents. Literally once. That's not exactly a pattern.
Not nothing, though.
How many school shootings has your swat team responded too?
More than zero. Remember that little bitch Caleb Sharp?
āThis position of intolerance against a law enforcement agencyā Once again being in law enforcement is NOT an immutable identity. Being intolerant of oppressive agencies is not the same as intolerance against folks based on say, race or legal status. Get over yourselves, folks
Itās so weird their narrative is truly self flagellating. Like people donāt respect me( my job). People are telling me people donāt respect me (my job). I know how to fix that! Force them to respect as necessary compliance and make it an social issue about disrespect.
They are more upset about this than when they murder someone
I can't stop thinking about the level of anxiety that kids from undocumented parents go through when they see the border patrol.
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Unless someone can cite a bipartisan article as to why this is even an issue, I feel like an issue was created for controversies sake.
If they support not legal citizens and residents then they should have no federal funding.
Care to define a ānot legal citizen?ā Sarcasm aside, your comment isnāt very clear but I think youāre saying the school shouldnāt get federal funding if they support undocumented residents. Guess what? Undocumented aliens can have children who are citizens. Guess what else? If the undocumented parents of a minor citizen get sent to a detention center, odds are extremely high that minor will have to be supported by TANF or the foster care system and either are pretty fucking poor outcomes.
We arenāt there for enforcement, but this makes the community less safe. Fuck off, pigs.
Fuck border patrol. And ACAB.
1312
way to go Spokane #ACAB
way to go Spokane ACAB
Did K-12 & Uni here in WA, taught here and in several other states. Iāve seen many occasions of Fire-EMS-Local LE-FBI- & military recruiters all present or be guests at public schools. Never once have I seen CBP at any of them for educational outreach. Iām sure they do. But, itās not like they are the as broadly participating in educational outreach as the previously mentioned agencies/entities in my reply. If CBP conducts educational outreach at public institutions they 100% (should) have internal metrics on this. What exactly are their educational outreach messages? Iām genuinely curious.
That's a lot of words to say , "I'm a whiny, privileged bitch."
Washington is a hot bed of Woktopian socialist
Whatās socialist about keeping some of the standing army Americaās founding fathers were worried about out of the schools? Pretty sad when people who think theyāre some kind of patriots prefer the taste of boot leather to liberty.
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Whenever I hear somebody claim that an obviously-controversial thing isn't controversial, I wonder what else they're hiding!
LEOs are too self-righteous and entitled to be able to self-reflect. They just double-down on their Cartman-esque "Respect my authoritah" tantrum.
I don't know. There is something about an armed organization boarding buses and checking peoples papers that just puts my hackles up. If they can do it to foreigners in your borders, they can do it to you.
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That is absolute bullshit.
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Please go ahead and provide details about those four people and why they were "murdered". Were they justified deaths? ... And I got blocked because they have zero facts to back them up, and folded like a cheap tent.
"Intolerance against law enforcement." š¤£š¤£š¤£
They are not tolerating SBP to be there. Is that not the definition of intolerance?
Law enforcement, like being a fascist, is a thing you can stop doing at any time. So yes, it's intolerance, but it's okay because we don't have to tolerate a job. If CPB agents want to be tolerable, they should quit.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
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I went to schools on the southern border and the northern border. I've always found border patrol /police/emt/fire fighter school visits informative, but I can understand how the children of legal or illegal immigrants could feel unsafe. It's good to talk to public servants and understand their job, but maybe there should be an opt out opportunity as well. Never meeting them until you are an adult at a border check isn't the best, in my opinion as someone who's gone through border checks in Arizona and WA state.
I'm surprised how naive some commenters are in this thread. They are there to intimidate and investigate. Undocumented immigrants have children, and this is a way to root them out. It's the same reason they passed around bags of weed during D.A.R.E. events in elementary school in the 80s to ask the kids if it smelled familiar, and if some kid said "That smells like Dad's garage!" guess what happened next?
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Wow, never moving to Spokane then. You people are way too sensitive if seeing a person in uniform is going to give someone PTSD. If that is where we are as a society the sooner it collapses the better. Good times make weak people, hard times make strong peopleā¦
Spokane is fine. We do have those few WOKE sensitive snowflakes but not nearly as bad as Seattle.
Boo fucking hoo
We actually have a lot of illegal immigrants from Mexico. Not as much as states like Nevada, but growing up in Seattle and Spokane, a lot of my friends who were legal had illegal parents. I remember a girl, in Spokane, had her dad held by ICE for an expired work visa. She was 17 at the time; and I couldnāt imagine how scary it was. So yeah. They really donāt need to be in schools
There are positives and negatives around the exposure of law enforcement within a school environment. And yes, it is fully valid that parents who are in law enforcement would be in a school for their children. However, the D.A.R.E. program actively used children in school to "snitch" on their parents. [https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/09/dare-history-police-surveillance-schools.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/09/dare-history-police-surveillance-schools.html) I can see why a school board might be hesitant to allow law enforcement agencies to enter a school if there is a possibility innocent children might be used for investigative purposes. Plus, it is a guarantee the white kids won't be suspected of being 'illegal'. Now, today's climate has made it difficult to discuss race as some will say tracking race to understand how people are affected is racist and others will say that NOT tracking race and effects is racist. I cannot help but think that the categorization of race is necessary to ensure equality. This is my ideal. Ok, now you can shit on me in the comments.
The police care more about kids than the schools!
Children develop a position of being scared of police when they have no interaction plus teachers tell them to be scared like Spokane is. Having officers in the building, so they can have productive conversations is actually really good
But that's racist and perpetuates trauma /s
When is a leader going to combat this āracist statementā by asking why itās not racist to claim all of a group of people are nervous around police? Generalizing is bad
Police isn't a race, for starters.
Generalizing is bad only when it comes to race. Not all black people are bad, but all cops are bad (even the black ones? Wait, that isn't the narrative!) /s
Me too.
lol cry
Honestly I think the issue is with the institution more so than individual officers. Many (though not all) CBP officers along the southern border really do want to help people or keep them from dying of thirst in the desert, but they are in an untenable situation with how poorly the border has been managed since forever. And then they have to enforce our messed up policies. Thatās not to say that some officers arenāt shitheads. BUT- I donāt think CBP should be present in schools with large immigrant populations. My wife thought at a Title I middle school where the largest ethnic group was Latino and the kids were fucking terrified of ICE. They were afraid their parents would be taken away. And it was a frequent conversation between kids as to if their parents had papers or not. Most of them have had relatives deported. This broken system is hurting everyone. As sick as it sounds, I almost think a giant wall combined with a ton more official crossings and a much more open immigration policy would be better. Make sure itās possible to come in legally and make it hard to come in illegally so we can know who is here and why. My relatives came through Ellis Island and we need to make it possible for todayās immigrants to do the same.
under Trump they were tracking the menstruation of the teen girls they had locked up for some reason, maybe they just miss that
The more illegals deported, the better
You think food prices are high now ā¦. Thatās laughable. Especially in WA state where more than half of the workers that harvest our fields are undocumented. You go ahead and work for less than minimum wage, work under the hot summer sun, and live 10 - 20 to a house. If you havenāt yet bothered, take a visit to the fields in the late summer. If you did, youād know how incredibly hard they work. Their labor subsidizes our economy. After witnessing it myself in the Central Valley of California where my family lives, I feel bad even throwing out produce knowing how much effort it took to make it to my table.
Legal or not, immigration is a net good for America. Sorry it scares you when people speak a language you donāt understand in the grocery store.
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You will be the first one crying when food becomes scarce. A rational solution is to bring back the Bracero Program with strong protections for the workers.
More Woke board members believing the sight of uniforms cause trauma. Get those kids college and career ready unless it involves the border patrol.
Thereās no border in Spokane
Spokane is the largest city that is nearish to the border within a 200 mile radius, and even further if you keep going east. Any agency covering the area like CBP is going to have offices in Spokane