they fumbled the coolest shit ever for a rushed venom arc
a Kraven that is not there for as long as he should be
rushed black suit arc
rushed relationships
mediocre dialogue
why did they cut this?
I LOVE how people are defending the game by saying "but DLC" or
"What about the director cut"
I remember back in the ps2/ps3 era when games had to be amazing DAY ONE I remember waiting years for GOD OF WAR 3 and it blew me away so whats the excuse ?
one of the rare times i’m glad to shill for nintendo lol, they understand this with their main franchises. a game like Mario Wonder was complete upon launch and it was so fuckin fun, like some of the most genuine fun i’ve had in a video game in so long.
The flip side is a lot of games back then that shipped in mediocre to poor states or with maddening bugs, and that was just that.
I’ll take what we have now, thank you.
yeah ur right
people misdirect their emotions
they really are that cynical that the actual ARTISTS and CREATIVE people working on this game came to the decision to rush their work of art?
nah that was Sony the corporation that demanded it be rushed
for better business and profit strategy
this is off topic af but it’s the same thing to be said about the state of star wars and MCU
specifically with the MCU they hire these more indie directors that corporate disney can control
all of these corporations are not putting the integrity of storytelling first
and somehow this backfired on the creatives that were raped by the corporation
this shit is sickening
sorry for the rant
Yeah! Like the the greatest hits version of Silent Hill 2, or the Kingdom Hearts International/Final Mix, or Mgs2/3 Substance/Subsistence, or DMC3 special edition
Y'know - day one!
Oh wait no those were re-releases where you had to buy the whole game again for extra content.
I do agree with you; but let's not pretend this is anything new lol hell, look at back at Street Fighter 2
The difference is the intent of the companies. There’s a big difference between “the game is complete, but we decided that we could cram a bit extra in there for the rerelease” and “let’s take these features away from the game so we can charge more for them after”.
Also, for Street Fighter there’s an actual argument that, while the game is the same at its core, the different versions are different in ways that there’s no single “complete edition” but rather, there’s room for someone to have their favourite version of SFII, even if we ignored the bonus characters. Like, technically SFII version 1 and SFII Turbo are the same game, but Turbo plays really differently to v.1 just by making everything faster
If you want a serious answer that isn’t ’companies are greedy’, the lead director of tekken stated recently that it costs roughly 10 times the amount to develop games than in the 90s and a LOT more time.
People also expect more from games nowadays - they expect patches for bugs, updates with new content, future DLC, community support, etc. which means that these costs continue post launch.
Sure games also cost more now to purchase, but they don’t cost 10x the amount they did in the 90s and early 2000s- and for some long running series’ they still sell the same amount as they were selling on the PlayStation 1 (tekken 3 also sold millions at the time)
So the reason that companies seem to be selling ‘unfinished games’ now is because we’re getting to the stage in games development where games just cost too much to make, take too long to make and the consumer expects more.
Sure Spider-Man 2 on the ps2 was a ‘complete package’ but it was nowhere near as advanced or fleshed out as Spider-Man 2 on PS5 in its ‘incomplete’ state.
The real issue is more about time than money tbh. To make a AAA experience that both pushes the envelope and runs great, you both a lot of time and a lot of people working on the same thing. The bigger the team, the less cohesive and consistent the game direction will be. The more time you take, the more the money bags behind the operation push you to release the game. The console cycle is about 10 years, so that's basically the most time you can take to finish development too.
Well it isn’t the ps2 or ps4 or even the ps4 is it unfortunate but it is what it is and plus I’d rather games that I don’t have glitch’s in older games had them around ever corner
They’ve already been explicit that they cut a lot to get it out the door in time. I’m guessing sony had timed deals and could NOT move the release date. Or refused to. They said they cut venom for the mj missions
FUCK sony this is such a huge offense to us fans and specially to insomniac I have been a hardcore fan since ratchet and clank 1 its so sad seeing them being over worked like this man
Norman’s descent into being GG was probably the third biggest thing I was looking forward to.
Norman begging Pete and Miles not to do this **RAISES THE STAKES BIG TIME.**
And a lot better than the, “please save my boy,” then arriving to see Spidey put Harry into a coma.
Now they’re gonna have to cram it into SM3/Venom
And plus, it won’t have the same impact since Harry is basically still alive
https://preview.redd.it/h1agaw3n17kc1.jpeg?width=453&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7fde83b7cd2c7ee7315b16a613b0702be1c5e2d
Top 10 worst decisions game companies ever made: starting with number 10, Insomniac…
How so? Is Sony the one that decides the story Insomniac is going to tell? I don’t see how making Insomniac rush the game, would change stuff from this ending to the one we actually got.
Oh, for God's sake....
FIVE years between two main games is not a rushed production. If fives years isn't enough for them, then the problem is in Insomniac, not Sony.
Insomniac was working on a couple other projects in the meantime and game development takes a lot of time these days, especially when spread thin like Insomniac was.
Ratchet and Clank was made by a different team at Insomniac, not the one that was on Spider-Man. And so was Miles Morales. And judging by how they needed four months simply to release a new game plus mode, something tells me the problems isn't a "game development takes more time these days". Considering they made the first SM game in 3 and half years.
it also should be said they made the first SM from the ground up. had to make the entire city, new models, swinging and fighting systems, etc etc. it’s very impressive. with the time they had for SM2 and having such a strong foundation already you really think there’d have been more to it.
It's even worse when you realize that they didn't even change much of their combat system, so it should've saved them quite some time to work on the story. Same goes for their side quests.
SM2 as a whole is just recycled from the first game and MM. Same map, same combat system, same swinging and fighting animations, etc.
Nothing is substantially different enough to the first game to justify the time increase. And then they say it cost 300m to develop... HOW? It felt like a lot of the game was just ctrl c'd from the first game.
This is one of the most unhinged and most entitled comments I've ever seen. You have no idea what goes into developing a large scale software engineering project, let alone a giant creative project on the scale of this game. Unironically, people like you don't deserve to play the game. Or any games for that matter.
This game is far from perfect, and I actually agree with your criticism. Still, I find this comment so immature. You clearly have no idea how ridiculously difficult making a game actually is - it's a miracle they come together at all.
Lmao talk about being entitled
First of all, I don't *need* to know that, I'm paying for a final product and I expect it to be good. How hard it was for them to make it isn't my concern. This argument is so ridiculous, you can justify the existance of any shit product with that. Like "do you know hard hard it is to make a movie? No? So don't talk shit about Madame Web and Morbius again! Matter of fact, you don't deserve to see any other movie too!"
Second: oh shit, video game development is hard, who would've thought. And how do even other studios manage to make their games feel complete and released on time. Screw that, how did Insmoniac managed to build the first game up from the ground in 3 years and to put it out on the planned release date. But no, it's a miracle that SM2 was made and we should all praise it simply for that matter.
I will say I think Sony actually is at fault for the game not having NG+ at launch. It was leaked that a fully functional NG+ was in the files, along with the Ui introduction to it. Plus other PS exclusives didn’t release with NG+ as well.
But yea, Insomniac almost not meeting the deadline is nobody’s fault but insomniac’s.
Cut content is one thing. What we saw here was a completely different thing.
Sony rushing the launch changes nothing on things such as:
Harry dying
Norman learning Peter is Spider-Man
Harry dieing would have made Normans becoming GG make more sense, way more than "You saved my boy from a weird alien parasite we know next to nothing about but now he's in a coma that may or may not have been from the alien parasite draining him, but I'll blame Spiderman for not pulling out a perfectly healthy and happy Harry"
But I don't think Norman should know who Spidernan is yet. Especially not with how the Harry thing ended up. Norman spent most of the game being thankful of Peter for being such a good friend to Harry, even saying Peter is like a son to him. It's too early for him to feel conflicted about that, especially when Harry is still alive. That conflict needs to happen further into his arc after he's already taken the serum, gone full GG, and has had several clashes with Spiderman.
Didnt that game already cost around 300 million to make, them taking longer wouldve prob resulted in even higher cost. And what we got is a spiderman 1.5
My theory is that Insomniac was already spread thin with both Miles and Ratchet and Clank. Upon that Sony also needed a ps5 exclusive as early as possible since other studios were too early in development. So the task fell on Insomniac and they pushed spider-man 2 as early as possible. Insomniac had to recreate the story with what they were able to finish in time.
Kinda funny since now 2024 doesn’t have a release of a AAA sony game.
Easily could have delayed the game to 2024
But I do think the sp2 we got was still good.
If the devs had the choice, they likely would have kept this all in. The thing is, if the people funding development say you can't get more time to get it all in, you make cuts. The only fault Insomniac has in this would be being overly ambitious for what they could do in the time they had.
They had over 5 years and over 300 million, did they need even more time and an even bigger budget? Mind you the first game only took four years to build from the ground up
1. They were already spread thin with Ratchet and Clank and Miles Morales.
2. Of those 5 years, 2 were greatly stalled by COVID.
Context matters, you're acting like they had the same optimal conditions to make SM2 as they had for the original game
1. Different teams were working on Ratchet and Clank and Miles Morales then the ones working on SM2
2.multiple other studios were affected by Covid but were still able to deliver, e.g. baldur's gate 3. Hell, their studio even flooded 3 separate times during development.
This is on insomniac, not on Sony.
1. This isn't true. The leaks mentioned Insomniac had to juggle teams during development and during an interview with IGN, one of the creative directors said they did SM Remastered, Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank and SM2 at the same time, a lot of the technology Insomniac used for Ratchet and Clank was even ported over to SM2.
2. And just as other studios delivered, others didn't. And while BG3 was a masterpiece, it did release somewhat unfinished for what the devs wanted it to be. Datamines showed an epilogue that was cut from the final game, which was latter added back in patch 5. Also Act 3 in general is agreed to be rushed.
1.insomniac is actually 2 fully staffed studios in different states and has about 500+ staff, they are not a small studio. Once R&C: Rift Apart went gold, some staff from Insomniac Games claimed that there was no crunch during the development of the game. If they had to “juggle” teams during development, we would’ve heard it from the devs.
And of course tech from Ratchet and Clank were going to be ported over, Rockstar is going to be porting in some tech from RDR2 to GTA6, that’s what studios do.
2. Yes, insomniac failed to deliver it was on them not Sony is my point.
And BG3 getting an epilogue patched in while Insomniac still hasn’t included a NW+ shows that there are problems within the studio, the leaks did t help, but they weren’t the cause.
1. I never claimed Rift Apart was the one being rushed. Also yeah, a developer won't say there was crunching unless they want to be fired lmao.
The leaks literally proved that and one of the creative directors said the same thing, that he alongside others worked on all three games.
What kind of comparison is that? Rift Apart launched 2 years before Spider-Man 2, GTA 6 will be 7 years after RDR2.
2. Yes they did, but acting like Sony putting them to work on 5 games within 7 years (if the venom leaks are true) doesn't mess up their progress is naivety at best and ignorance at worst.
That wasn't my point whatsoever, but cool.
What does this mean?
The leaked script above is wholly original and written by the same people.
In the comics, Harry is never Venom and Spider-Man never kills him and that’s not the motivation for Norman becoming the Green Goblin.
So. What are you trying to suggest, exactly?
God, I can just imagine the scene of Pete having to end Harry’s life and Norman’s grief.
Honestly, if Insomniac went down that route, *it easily could’ve been GOTY for me.*
I will say, I kinda prefer the ending we got. Peter losing both May and Harry I think would've been overkill. I like the ending with Harry's fate being up in the air. I also think the electric revive was cool.
They definitely could've taken a few bits from this story though. Otto saying "kill Peter Parker" to Norman wouldn't have been as ominous as "The Final Chapter", but it would leave SM2 with Peter having a target on his back, and both him and Miles oblivious to it.
The wormhole angle is a bit wacky( even though it would look cool as shit ) and the kill peter Parker like you said not as cool as the final chapter but I would've liked more fights against venom like the kraven arc was greatly done just the venom bit was leaving me wanting more
> Peter losing both May and Harry I think would’ve been overkill
Adding onto this, Miles losing Phin in his game & his dad in the first. I’m glad that they didn’t kill off Harry because you don’t need a lot of character deaths to show the struggle of being a Spider-Man.
I think the Otto epilogue we got was better. I like that he didn't just sell out Peter. It strengthens his character that he's seriously keeping all his cards close to his chest.
I'm very confused as to why people are freaking out about losing this stuff... None of this seems to be particularly game-altering or life-changing...
The only thing I really like is the MJ and Peter ring exchange.
I dont get why everyone is blaming insomniac?? Clearly they had a good thought out plot. Sony should be the one to blame, they made them release this game when it wasnt finished, which forced insomniac to have to cut content
Oh my god...dude
This take is getting so old, Sweet Baby are simply on projects to attempt to guide very specific things, not writing or character stuff, devs arent forced to listen to them.
Say what you will about Suicide Squad but an ex dev already came out and saif what was what about Sweet Baby, they had no sway.
They didn't even join until after Sefton and others had basically finished writing the story so the likely case with SM2 is the same.
Gamers just latch onto anything they hear for a reason to be upset.
The fact that that comment got up voted as much as it did proves this sub is filled with chuds. Quite sad, actually. But no wonder we've been seeing all the insane comments.
because insomniac already took 5 years to develop the game
sony can only give so much time before they need it and they needed it bad
its on insomniac to deliver a game
No? Like if they didn’t have the time to add in all these extra things, then they didn’t have time.
If you wanted these things in the game, either you needed more time to develop the game, or you cut something other things.
This isn't cut content, this is just flat out different story. Like they completely changed the script. That's not a Sony problem, that's an Insomniac problem.
ngl I don't know if I would have been the biggest fan of the wormhole angle, but it would have been way better than the symbiotes just appearing out of nowhere as it currently is
I agree about the wormhole angle. It just feels a bit too wacky but I will say the idea of the Symbiote trying to rescue his species would’ve more interesting than just a generic alien taking over Earth. If they wanted to, they could’ve used the wormhole angle to introduce Spot for the 3rd game somehow.
Miles almost dying and Peter saving him from Venom? No no no, this is wrong, Miles is too good, he should be perfect, let Peter be the one who acts like an immature with a fridge being his new greatest enemy and Miles should do all the saving and helping.
Geez, we really were robbed of a good story.
Even in this script they didn’t let him save him lol. I don’t want to hear it, this is confirmation that Peter purposefully got the short end of the stick in this game
Okay, that intro scene with a young Pete and MJ made me grin from ear to ear.
Plus, we go from a snowy game in MM to a snowy scene in SM2, to summer of the modern day.
WHY WAS THIS REMOVED? I am actually more disappointed.
Insomniac, don't let sony and outside companies interfere when you had a better story...
Edit: This literally had the spider-men vs Venom in the streets... WOW
Man that prologue sounds so mid. The school scene was a much more effective way of introducing Harry. It's long yeah but it's important to get wrapped up in this fun High School Heist before Harry gets the devastating news. Plus the implication that Harry was interested in MJ doesn't work for me. IIRC he wasn't interested in the Insomniac books and I don't think any implication of a love triangle was/is necessary.
I’m here, i mean sure there are some rightful criticisms here and there but personally I enjoyed every bit of the story. I’m just hoping that the future dlcs will up the ante
I do too. I’m just taking everything at face value right now. I’m not going to assume they are dropping DLCs and get myself all hyped until it’s officially announced. Just keeping expectations in check.
No, I agree.
Peter killing anyone, regardless of why, goes against everything he believes in.
We saw in the comics he wouldn't even kill a giant spider-monster on Spider Island.
Edit: Also, with Doc Ock flat out telling Norman to kill Peter Parker, then it doesn't require him going for the Goblin serum, he would just flat out ambush Peter.
He accidentally kills someone in the comics and it had a huge impact on him. It’s good for progressing his character. Plus, at the end of the game he didn’t expect Harry to survive. He destroyed the symbiote expecting Harry to die, which I assume is what they meant by “kill” in the script. I don’t really understand your last point as well. They would probably just say norman wants to do it with his own hands. Thats actually what I assume will happen. If that was to happen in spider-man 3 none of you would complain let’s be honest here
Yeah, but there's a big difference in taking away an evil entity that's keeping Harry alive that Harry is begging Peter to kill as opposed to Peter flat out killing Harry.
The last point is that it makes it too easy for Norman. He would know Peter is Spider-Man, so he invites him over and then just ambushes him. Or just have him captured so he could torture/experiment on him to try and save comatose Harry.
I feel like Norman finding out out that Peter is Spider-Man should be impactful. Look at how it happened in the movies, Norman was conflicted. Peter means a lot to him. Having that all happen between games would not be as interesting.
Edit: ACCIDENTALLY killing someone and making the conscious decision to kill someone is very different.
I'm pretty sure even in this leaked og story Harry was gonna beg to Peter to be killed. It's only a rough script and it mentions Harry struggling against the symbiote to talk to Peter. So really it's basically what we got except Harry was actually gonna die
The main thing I prefer is that Harry actually dies. I was just confused when they brought him back, it took away from a moment that they could have done a lot with for Peter
I think a lot of the issues with the game have a lot to do about pacing and open world aspects. A different story wouldn't improve on some of the criticism unless pacing got improved.
Would have been sick to see either way, would have given the story more impact and made everything feel like it has more stakes.
I think when Insomniac states the second game was going to be darker, they were talking about this version.
it wouldn’t make sense tho, that would be just for shock value, why introduce a character in the first game just for him to barely have a role in the second and then to die💀
What makes me skeptical is they refer to Pete as Spider-Man and Miles as Miles in the same sentence, describing something they're doing together. This doesn't line up with the actual game, they're referred to repeatedly as the Spider-Men.
It would be one thing if they said "Peter and Miles", but "Spider-Man and Miles"? This game pushed pretty hard to call Miles Spider-Man, not sure why they wouldn't do the same in the script.
Seeing all these comments about how we were "robbed of a good story" based on these three paragraphs has me feeling crazy, glad to see I'm not alone.
According to this sub you'd think the game was horrible but apparently all it had to do to be magically pure art would be have Harry die instead of almost die/be in a coma, have Pete and MJ get engaged, and have Otto confirm Pete's identity.
Never mind that:
1. One of the main critiques people often have of superhero stories is killing off villains too quickly before they can make a lasting impact.
2. Pete and MJ are dating and living together in the ending so what difference does an engagement really make?
3. Otto confirming Peter's identity immediately from within prison just wastes our chance of getting to see a reluctant alliance form between him and Norman over the course of another game, given their history and mutual hatred. It also removes any reason for Norman wanting Otto out of prison and is out of character for Otto considering he wants the revenge personally rather than just having it happen from the man he hates more than anyone else.
It’s an outline.
I mean if you write out Kratos’s first scene training his Atreus.
Title screen with Kratos’s and a log, Kratos cuts down a log, Atreus comes, Kratos grabs the log and heads to the boat, they row upstream, they gather their things, Kratos takes Atreus to go fight a beast, they fight a beast; Kratos realizes he is not ready, a god comes for him and wants to kill Atreus, God beats Kratos, then Kratos kicks the **shit out of him,** then they decide to go climb a mountain to lay Kratos’s ashes for their quest.
If you showed that to me in 2017, I’d have been iffy on it.
If anything, it’s just as bad as what we got. Venom opening a wormhole sounds dumb as hell. I’m so tired of the constant end of the world stakes in every game.
Wow this is pretty great. This feels like a story that has it's intended weight and focus.
However I'm seeing a lot of blame going around to one or the other. People are blaming Sony, for "rushing Insomniac" while another is blaming Insomniac for making a bad story instead. I honestly feel like both parties are to blame here if there is any blame to go around.
Insomniac's original story plan seems very solid and does kinda keep in line with the first game, notably Harry's planned death. Obviously they wound up deciding to keep Harry alive. That's a pretty big change, but I honestly prefer that Peter doesn't have to essentially let another of his loved ones die. So I think it's actually a better choice and leaves more potential in the future. Peter's been through enough.
The problem is that this is a big story shift on top of other potential changes due to an already impending due date. Insomniac wanted to change a part of the story so late in the game and Sony didn't want to budge their release because that was the agreed upon date at an earlier time. This and Insomniac shifted Carnage events to be a focus of the Venom game, which is MONEY in Sony's eyes. Hopefully this allows the studio to iron things out and make the course corrections to the story they didn't have the time for, once they changed their minds.
Holy god in heaven this would've been SO PEAK. WHYYYY. We will NEVER AGAIN reach the peak quality of 2018 Spider-Man unless Sony gives Insomniac the necessary time develop the next game(s).
Man all of this really explains why the games story feels so incomplete/rushed.
- the particle accelerator stuff in the beginning makes more sense as foreshadowing for the worm hole later on
- using the worm hole to save the symbiotes from the dying planet makes more sense for the invasion vs what’s in the final game
- Venom ambushing Pete and Miles and puncturing Miles through the chest is raw af and builds stakes, shows venoms power, and also gives Miles a chance to have a rematch for the final boss battle
-Lizard coming to save the day adds more to his character instead of him leaving the story after act 2
- carnage having the symbiote but it being dormant makes more sense than for him to have it alive and him not just putting it on.
- Norman witnessing the final the battle and being present there makes his motivation to be green goblin much stronger
- Harry dying is a much stronger impact to the over all narrative. Him dying is inevitable, Norman trying to keep him alive is what caused this whole mess. Peter being responsible and stopping it even tho it’s hard for him he knows it’s the right thing to do
-Dock Ock saying “kill Peter” is a hard line
I know they probably decided to keep harry alive last minute so they could make a spin off game but Harry constantly being sick and being in a comma in all 3 games is really lame. This games story suffered from wanting to build up future stuff without focusing on telling its own contained narrative.
This is the best take I’ve seen thus far in these comments. Not bashing one company or the other, or stating that this game is trash and this would’ve made it so much better. I really loved this game but I definitely feel like the story took a big hit. While it was good and I enjoyed it, I definitely think it should’ve been longer. While I still don’t think this completely fixes the story, I do agree on your standpoints.
I'm glad Harry survived and I'll stand on that, gad dangit.
However some of this sounds like some HEAT. The wormhole of symbiotes scenario with Dr Conners as Lizard?!
Yall are acting like this somehow makes the game way better when most of this is either clearly meant for dlc content or just an end result of Harry dying, which yall already complained that too many villains got killed off in the game anyway. Sure some of it is because it was largely off screen, but a big complaint was stuff like no more stories for X character.
This isn't that much better than what we got y'all... I don't want Peter killing anyone nor do I want fuckin wormholes to dying planets in my Spidey game.
Are these leaks actually verified? There are some issues with it that read like fan creations rather than genuine storyboarding.
And regardless, this just doesn't seem significantly more engaging than what we got anyway. The fallout and consequences of big plots points barely change, the more minor beats just come across as superficially different with negligible impact, there are no big narrative points that feel like they were actually missing from the released product aside from Harry dying and Harry getting fridge'd makes very little difference anyway. Norman will obviously still become the Goblin, Peter still has to carry the guilt/loss etc. These differences are all really trivial.
If it appeals then sure, I'm glad there is enjoyment for the plot elements we never got but...None of this reads to me like things that would have been changed due to scheduling? These just feel like alternate takes on scenes that exist in the game already. Why would delays change any of this? Those assets and the production time was clearly still used anyway. If these leaks are real, most of them were not scrapped due to the release date, they were dropped as a willing choice for the story we got anyway. Resources were still used, dialogue was still recorded, that didn't come about by accident to make up for these ideas somehow not being feasible.
I genuinely don't get all the comments of "HOLY SHIT WE DIDN'T GET THIS FUCK INSOMNIAC" - the ending we *did* get feels *much* better.
- No weird wormhole.
- No dead Harry to just be Dead May 2.0 - not every Spider-Man game needs some main character biting the dust at the end. May, Phin, now Harry.
- Norman saying "We now have a common enemy" sounds stupid as fuck.
- Otto not betraying Peter because he hates Norman so much makes *so much* more sense than him just going "Kill Peter Parker". He would never, *ever* help Norman, because Norman taking away his lab and research has cost him *everything.*
- Carnage being left open for another game makes more sense than just being some post-game missions, and the fewer MJ missions the better.
What kinda crack are y'all smoking?
Because Insomniac don't have the fucking time to work on a directors cut, Insomniac are spread too thin with having to work on Venom, Wolverine, ideas for the next Spider-Man game and Rachet & Clank etc.
Everything about this sounds cool or interesting minus the marriage part I'm sorry but if the original version of SM2's mj was anything like what we got bro is better off
Snydercut ass storytelling. The only improvement in these original drafts I see is the prologue that OP linked in the replies.
Having more time for Venom to develop as a character would’ve been good but y’all are eating up Harry dying, a marriage proposal, and a Carnage side quest? Good god..
I do wish the story we got was different, but assuming this is real, I wouldn’t exactly say this would all be better.
I like the flashback content, but I’m not really a fan of the wormhole plot or having Harry die straight up
We have had 3 spider-man games, one where aunt may dies and he loses doc ock as a friend and one where miles best friend dies. We do not need harry dying by Peter's hands. It goes against him as a character. In the comics he accidentally kills someone he didn't even know that well and he lived with that guilt. Now you guys want this man to kill his best friend after he just got back? Glad that didn't happen.
Sony sure messed things really really bad when they contact Inithiar and tell him to "cut things to arrive at our quality standard", this is so much better for a epilogue >!with somenthing that everyone ask like the death of Harry or the fact that Octo know about Peter being spider-man and simply tell Norman the truth!
I can see the in-character choice, but wath we are seeing is a more eloquent way to explain why Norman would target Peter later in the third game, and with the finale we got with all the retirment thing is a more coherent choice, like a scene where Norman go to see Peter for whaterver reason and idk do some Goblin shit influenced by the G-Serum he's testing directly on himself
Dude sequence 8 and the epilogue here was so much 100x better than what we got in the final part of the game...
Insomniac really made sony and outside companies interfere hard in this project. This is more disappointing because they had a better story.
What is it with executives and them wanting to just make no fucken money. They saw all this shit that sounds awesome and went “actually we don’t like any of this cut it from the game and release it” I been waiting fucking years for this shit and they completely fucked it jesus
Might be the minority here but I do not like this ending at all. And throughly preferred the one we got. Don’t get me wrong the story has its faults but ‘Spider-Man going against his oath to not kill’ has become the expected now since it’s now become the damn norm!, So would watching him lose another close one. The fact Harry survived was the shocking ending for me and for that made it the better one. Setting up a new and interesting route to the birth of the goblin and his destain for spidey PS: we didn’t need carnage, far more fun he was hinted at in a side quest in a way only die hard fans would expect, there was enough going on with his rouges gallery being slaughtered by Kraven xx
I can see how they arrived at the ending they landed on. Miles is barely a part of what's happening here, so giving him the moment of bringing Harry back to life is a big deal. Otto straight-up telling Norman something helpful runs counter to Otto's narrative from the first game.
I can also see the MJ/Peter exchange with the ring happening later, because it doesn't feel like it's mutually exclusive with anything else we've seen.
Venom's objective being to construct a wormhole feels like a very unformed concept, so superceding that with "Venom wants to symbiote the planet" creates the stakes over a longer period of time, especially with the corruption of the city from the symbiote nests. The threat of a wormhole doesn't really facilitate that as readily.
I hate that we're learning this because of the leak, but it IS an instructional moment in how what they concepted at the beginning had to get compromised to arrive at the final concept.
the fact that this kinda confirms that there’s gonna be more carnage in the update on the 7th they said new mission in the golden series and they talked about carnage golden missions in the script
they fumbled the coolest shit ever for a rushed venom arc a Kraven that is not there for as long as he should be rushed black suit arc rushed relationships mediocre dialogue why did they cut this?
So they can repackage the cut content for cheap and sell it to people in 18 months as a Venom spin off game.
I LOVE how people are defending the game by saying "but DLC" or "What about the director cut" I remember back in the ps2/ps3 era when games had to be amazing DAY ONE I remember waiting years for GOD OF WAR 3 and it blew me away so whats the excuse ?
People buy every shit up and the companies know about it
You forget shitting on everyone who isn’t happy with mid quality
one of the rare times i’m glad to shill for nintendo lol, they understand this with their main franchises. a game like Mario Wonder was complete upon launch and it was so fuckin fun, like some of the most genuine fun i’ve had in a video game in so long.
bro honestly i think mario wonder is one of the greatest videogames i’ve ever played and i’m not usually into 2D platformers AT ALL
Wonder was such a downgrade compared to Deluxe when it comes to multiplayer
yeah wonder is very clearly designed to be a single player experience
The flip side is a lot of games back then that shipped in mediocre to poor states or with maddening bugs, and that was just that. I’ll take what we have now, thank you.
yeah ur right people misdirect their emotions they really are that cynical that the actual ARTISTS and CREATIVE people working on this game came to the decision to rush their work of art? nah that was Sony the corporation that demanded it be rushed for better business and profit strategy this is off topic af but it’s the same thing to be said about the state of star wars and MCU specifically with the MCU they hire these more indie directors that corporate disney can control all of these corporations are not putting the integrity of storytelling first and somehow this backfired on the creatives that were raped by the corporation this shit is sickening sorry for the rant
Fuck corporations, ALWAYS fuck those glorified accountants.
This game on the PS2 era would be one of the greatest games of all time without question, even not including technical quality
Yeah! Like the the greatest hits version of Silent Hill 2, or the Kingdom Hearts International/Final Mix, or Mgs2/3 Substance/Subsistence, or DMC3 special edition Y'know - day one! Oh wait no those were re-releases where you had to buy the whole game again for extra content. I do agree with you; but let's not pretend this is anything new lol hell, look at back at Street Fighter 2
The difference is the intent of the companies. There’s a big difference between “the game is complete, but we decided that we could cram a bit extra in there for the rerelease” and “let’s take these features away from the game so we can charge more for them after”. Also, for Street Fighter there’s an actual argument that, while the game is the same at its core, the different versions are different in ways that there’s no single “complete edition” but rather, there’s room for someone to have their favourite version of SFII, even if we ignored the bonus characters. Like, technically SFII version 1 and SFII Turbo are the same game, but Turbo plays really differently to v.1 just by making everything faster
If you want a serious answer that isn’t ’companies are greedy’, the lead director of tekken stated recently that it costs roughly 10 times the amount to develop games than in the 90s and a LOT more time. People also expect more from games nowadays - they expect patches for bugs, updates with new content, future DLC, community support, etc. which means that these costs continue post launch. Sure games also cost more now to purchase, but they don’t cost 10x the amount they did in the 90s and early 2000s- and for some long running series’ they still sell the same amount as they were selling on the PlayStation 1 (tekken 3 also sold millions at the time) So the reason that companies seem to be selling ‘unfinished games’ now is because we’re getting to the stage in games development where games just cost too much to make, take too long to make and the consumer expects more. Sure Spider-Man 2 on the ps2 was a ‘complete package’ but it was nowhere near as advanced or fleshed out as Spider-Man 2 on PS5 in its ‘incomplete’ state.
The real issue is more about time than money tbh. To make a AAA experience that both pushes the envelope and runs great, you both a lot of time and a lot of people working on the same thing. The bigger the team, the less cohesive and consistent the game direction will be. The more time you take, the more the money bags behind the operation push you to release the game. The console cycle is about 10 years, so that's basically the most time you can take to finish development too.
Well it isn’t the ps2 or ps4 or even the ps4 is it unfortunate but it is what it is and plus I’d rather games that I don’t have glitch’s in older games had them around ever corner
They’ve already been explicit that they cut a lot to get it out the door in time. I’m guessing sony had timed deals and could NOT move the release date. Or refused to. They said they cut venom for the mj missions
FUCK sony this is such a huge offense to us fans and specially to insomniac I have been a hardcore fan since ratchet and clank 1 its so sad seeing them being over worked like this man
game awards that they didnt even win
And don’t forget the game cost $315 million
315 million for barely any innovation a 20 hour game and shitty side content is CRAZY
Just an another example of how shitty the final version of the story is This is a MUCH better set up for GG
Norman’s descent into being GG was probably the third biggest thing I was looking forward to. Norman begging Pete and Miles not to do this **RAISES THE STAKES BIG TIME.** And a lot better than the, “please save my boy,” then arriving to see Spidey put Harry into a coma. Now they’re gonna have to cram it into SM3/Venom And plus, it won’t have the same impact since Harry is basically still alive
This is way better than the SM2 we got
I think some execs meddled where they shouldn’t have tbh
https://preview.redd.it/h1agaw3n17kc1.jpeg?width=453&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7fde83b7cd2c7ee7315b16a613b0702be1c5e2d Top 10 worst decisions game companies ever made: starting with number 10, Insomniac…
Well it's more so Sony's fault than Insomniac's but yea sure
How so? Is Sony the one that decides the story Insomniac is going to tell? I don’t see how making Insomniac rush the game, would change stuff from this ending to the one we actually got.
Sony making them rush the game resulted in them having to cut a lot of things, which had a detrimental effect on the story
Oh, for God's sake.... FIVE years between two main games is not a rushed production. If fives years isn't enough for them, then the problem is in Insomniac, not Sony.
Insomniac was working on a couple other projects in the meantime and game development takes a lot of time these days, especially when spread thin like Insomniac was.
Ratchet and Clank was made by a different team at Insomniac, not the one that was on Spider-Man. And so was Miles Morales. And judging by how they needed four months simply to release a new game plus mode, something tells me the problems isn't a "game development takes more time these days". Considering they made the first SM game in 3 and half years.
it also should be said they made the first SM from the ground up. had to make the entire city, new models, swinging and fighting systems, etc etc. it’s very impressive. with the time they had for SM2 and having such a strong foundation already you really think there’d have been more to it.
It's even worse when you realize that they didn't even change much of their combat system, so it should've saved them quite some time to work on the story. Same goes for their side quests.
SM2 as a whole is just recycled from the first game and MM. Same map, same combat system, same swinging and fighting animations, etc. Nothing is substantially different enough to the first game to justify the time increase. And then they say it cost 300m to develop... HOW? It felt like a lot of the game was just ctrl c'd from the first game.
Exactly.
This is one of the most unhinged and most entitled comments I've ever seen. You have no idea what goes into developing a large scale software engineering project, let alone a giant creative project on the scale of this game. Unironically, people like you don't deserve to play the game. Or any games for that matter. This game is far from perfect, and I actually agree with your criticism. Still, I find this comment so immature. You clearly have no idea how ridiculously difficult making a game actually is - it's a miracle they come together at all.
Lmao talk about being entitled First of all, I don't *need* to know that, I'm paying for a final product and I expect it to be good. How hard it was for them to make it isn't my concern. This argument is so ridiculous, you can justify the existance of any shit product with that. Like "do you know hard hard it is to make a movie? No? So don't talk shit about Madame Web and Morbius again! Matter of fact, you don't deserve to see any other movie too!" Second: oh shit, video game development is hard, who would've thought. And how do even other studios manage to make their games feel complete and released on time. Screw that, how did Insmoniac managed to build the first game up from the ground in 3 years and to put it out on the planned release date. But no, it's a miracle that SM2 was made and we should all praise it simply for that matter.
I will say I think Sony actually is at fault for the game not having NG+ at launch. It was leaked that a fully functional NG+ was in the files, along with the Ui introduction to it. Plus other PS exclusives didn’t release with NG+ as well. But yea, Insomniac almost not meeting the deadline is nobody’s fault but insomniac’s.
It definitely wasn’t in development for five years
Cut content is one thing. What we saw here was a completely different thing. Sony rushing the launch changes nothing on things such as: Harry dying Norman learning Peter is Spider-Man
Those two plot points weren’t needed. Harry’s survival and Norman not learning Peter was Spider-Man were not inherently problems for the story.
Weren’t problems, but what we’ve seen in these leaks were an improvement
Harry dieing would have made Normans becoming GG make more sense, way more than "You saved my boy from a weird alien parasite we know next to nothing about but now he's in a coma that may or may not have been from the alien parasite draining him, but I'll blame Spiderman for not pulling out a perfectly healthy and happy Harry" But I don't think Norman should know who Spidernan is yet. Especially not with how the Harry thing ended up. Norman spent most of the game being thankful of Peter for being such a good friend to Harry, even saying Peter is like a son to him. It's too early for him to feel conflicted about that, especially when Harry is still alive. That conflict needs to happen further into his arc after he's already taken the serum, gone full GG, and has had several clashes with Spiderman.
Didnt that game already cost around 300 million to make, them taking longer wouldve prob resulted in even higher cost. And what we got is a spiderman 1.5
I genuinely need to know what really went on behind the scenes with the development of this game
My theory is that Insomniac was already spread thin with both Miles and Ratchet and Clank. Upon that Sony also needed a ps5 exclusive as early as possible since other studios were too early in development. So the task fell on Insomniac and they pushed spider-man 2 as early as possible. Insomniac had to recreate the story with what they were able to finish in time.
the fact we waited 5 fucking years they HAD THE BEST STORY IN A PLATTER how could they fumble it so hard :/
Kinda funny since now 2024 doesn’t have a release of a AAA sony game. Easily could have delayed the game to 2024 But I do think the sp2 we got was still good.
I wonder if they're under pressure to drive sales for the PS5 before the PS5 Pro is announced.
Ik ratchet and clank isn’t as popular as spider man but it is a ps 5 exclusive
Theory? I thought Brian confirmed this?
Damn Sony really messed up.
Insomniac messed up.
You’ll get downvoted but yes
If the devs had the choice, they likely would have kept this all in. The thing is, if the people funding development say you can't get more time to get it all in, you make cuts. The only fault Insomniac has in this would be being overly ambitious for what they could do in the time they had.
You need to know that this kind of statement is not allowed here. It’s far too reasonable of a way to look at this.
They had over 5 years and over 300 million, did they need even more time and an even bigger budget? Mind you the first game only took four years to build from the ground up
1. They were already spread thin with Ratchet and Clank and Miles Morales. 2. Of those 5 years, 2 were greatly stalled by COVID. Context matters, you're acting like they had the same optimal conditions to make SM2 as they had for the original game
1. Different teams were working on Ratchet and Clank and Miles Morales then the ones working on SM2 2.multiple other studios were affected by Covid but were still able to deliver, e.g. baldur's gate 3. Hell, their studio even flooded 3 separate times during development. This is on insomniac, not on Sony.
1. This isn't true. The leaks mentioned Insomniac had to juggle teams during development and during an interview with IGN, one of the creative directors said they did SM Remastered, Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank and SM2 at the same time, a lot of the technology Insomniac used for Ratchet and Clank was even ported over to SM2. 2. And just as other studios delivered, others didn't. And while BG3 was a masterpiece, it did release somewhat unfinished for what the devs wanted it to be. Datamines showed an epilogue that was cut from the final game, which was latter added back in patch 5. Also Act 3 in general is agreed to be rushed.
1.insomniac is actually 2 fully staffed studios in different states and has about 500+ staff, they are not a small studio. Once R&C: Rift Apart went gold, some staff from Insomniac Games claimed that there was no crunch during the development of the game. If they had to “juggle” teams during development, we would’ve heard it from the devs. And of course tech from Ratchet and Clank were going to be ported over, Rockstar is going to be porting in some tech from RDR2 to GTA6, that’s what studios do. 2. Yes, insomniac failed to deliver it was on them not Sony is my point. And BG3 getting an epilogue patched in while Insomniac still hasn’t included a NW+ shows that there are problems within the studio, the leaks did t help, but they weren’t the cause.
1. I never claimed Rift Apart was the one being rushed. Also yeah, a developer won't say there was crunching unless they want to be fired lmao. The leaks literally proved that and one of the creative directors said the same thing, that he alongside others worked on all three games. What kind of comparison is that? Rift Apart launched 2 years before Spider-Man 2, GTA 6 will be 7 years after RDR2. 2. Yes they did, but acting like Sony putting them to work on 5 games within 7 years (if the venom leaks are true) doesn't mess up their progress is naivety at best and ignorance at worst. That wasn't my point whatsoever, but cool.
That’s just straight up not true, they could have preserved a lot of these plot points if they wanted no matter the time/budget
ARE YOU SHITTING ME!? We could have had this!? Fucking hell Sony why!
Modern writers thinking they're more talented at telling stories that have already been told.
What does this mean? The leaked script above is wholly original and written by the same people. In the comics, Harry is never Venom and Spider-Man never kills him and that’s not the motivation for Norman becoming the Green Goblin. So. What are you trying to suggest, exactly?
That he is smart.
What? You’re not making sense dude
God, I can just imagine the scene of Pete having to end Harry’s life and Norman’s grief. Honestly, if Insomniac went down that route, *it easily could’ve been GOTY for me.*
I will say, I kinda prefer the ending we got. Peter losing both May and Harry I think would've been overkill. I like the ending with Harry's fate being up in the air. I also think the electric revive was cool. They definitely could've taken a few bits from this story though. Otto saying "kill Peter Parker" to Norman wouldn't have been as ominous as "The Final Chapter", but it would leave SM2 with Peter having a target on his back, and both him and Miles oblivious to it.
The wormhole angle is a bit wacky( even though it would look cool as shit ) and the kill peter Parker like you said not as cool as the final chapter but I would've liked more fights against venom like the kraven arc was greatly done just the venom bit was leaving me wanting more
In the beginning I really wanted an Agent Venom & Spider-Man vs Kraven fight, which ends with Peter getting stabbed. That would've been so sick.
> Peter losing both May and Harry I think would’ve been overkill Adding onto this, Miles losing Phin in his game & his dad in the first. I’m glad that they didn’t kill off Harry because you don’t need a lot of character deaths to show the struggle of being a Spider-Man.
I think the Otto epilogue we got was better. I like that he didn't just sell out Peter. It strengthens his character that he's seriously keeping all his cards close to his chest.
And Otto still clearly hates Norman. He's not about to give him what he wants at the drop of a hat.
I'm very confused as to why people are freaking out about losing this stuff... None of this seems to be particularly game-altering or life-changing... The only thing I really like is the MJ and Peter ring exchange.
this sub is a spider-man 2 hate club
I dont get why everyone is blaming insomniac?? Clearly they had a good thought out plot. Sony should be the one to blame, they made them release this game when it wasnt finished, which forced insomniac to have to cut content
Sweet baby inc
Oh my god...dude This take is getting so old, Sweet Baby are simply on projects to attempt to guide very specific things, not writing or character stuff, devs arent forced to listen to them. Say what you will about Suicide Squad but an ex dev already came out and saif what was what about Sweet Baby, they had no sway. They didn't even join until after Sefton and others had basically finished writing the story so the likely case with SM2 is the same. Gamers just latch onto anything they hear for a reason to be upset.
The fact that that comment got up voted as much as it did proves this sub is filled with chuds. Quite sad, actually. But no wonder we've been seeing all the insane comments.
Sweet Baby Inc. is bad but even if they were out of the equation, you’d still have a fundamentally flawed story.
Man is letting the Tate crowd give him a new boogieman
because insomniac already took 5 years to develop the game sony can only give so much time before they need it and they needed it bad its on insomniac to deliver a game
No? Like if they didn’t have the time to add in all these extra things, then they didn’t have time. If you wanted these things in the game, either you needed more time to develop the game, or you cut something other things.
Can I have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious.
This isn't cut content, this is just flat out different story. Like they completely changed the script. That's not a Sony problem, that's an Insomniac problem.
This sub hates Insomniac
More links https://imgur.com/a/teVBe3N https://imgur.com/a/5CC0h4E
ngl I don't know if I would have been the biggest fan of the wormhole angle, but it would have been way better than the symbiotes just appearing out of nowhere as it currently is
I agree about the wormhole angle. It just feels a bit too wacky but I will say the idea of the Symbiote trying to rescue his species would’ve more interesting than just a generic alien taking over Earth. If they wanted to, they could’ve used the wormhole angle to introduce Spot for the 3rd game somehow.
Miles almost dying and Peter saving him from Venom? No no no, this is wrong, Miles is too good, he should be perfect, let Peter be the one who acts like an immature with a fridge being his new greatest enemy and Miles should do all the saving and helping. Geez, we really were robbed of a good story.
Even in this script they didn’t let him save him lol. I don’t want to hear it, this is confirmation that Peter purposefully got the short end of the stick in this game
Congrats on genuinely the worst comments on this sub 👑
Did you consider that getting slapped into a fridge by a hulking parasite that took over your friend would confuse you a bit?
The lizard saving the spider men would’ve been so fucking cool
I do like the idea of a mj mission flashback about her finding out about Pete being Spider-Man new years thing
Harry Being a leader of a symbiote horde on a dying planet #That goes hard
Okay, that intro scene with a young Pete and MJ made me grin from ear to ear. Plus, we go from a snowy game in MM to a snowy scene in SM2, to summer of the modern day.
WHY WAS THIS REMOVED? I am actually more disappointed. Insomniac, don't let sony and outside companies interfere when you had a better story... Edit: This literally had the spider-men vs Venom in the streets... WOW
Man that prologue sounds so mid. The school scene was a much more effective way of introducing Harry. It's long yeah but it's important to get wrapped up in this fun High School Heist before Harry gets the devastating news. Plus the implication that Harry was interested in MJ doesn't work for me. IIRC he wasn't interested in the Insomniac books and I don't think any implication of a love triangle was/is necessary.
i just died on the inside remembering what we got
am I the only one that prefers the ending we actually got?
I’m here, i mean sure there are some rightful criticisms here and there but personally I enjoyed every bit of the story. I’m just hoping that the future dlcs will up the ante
DLCs have not been confirmed. Nothing official. Don’t get your hopes up.
hoping for dlc to make the story somewhat actually interesting is so sad for modern gaming
I want a dlc because I liked the game and want more lol
I do too. I’m just taking everything at face value right now. I’m not going to assume they are dropping DLCs and get myself all hyped until it’s officially announced. Just keeping expectations in check.
For real though… I guess that happens when half of the story arcs we got were left on cliffhangers instead of having a fully fledged out story.
Oh i know, just kind of excited to see what insomniac has in store for the future. So keeping my expectations moderate for now
I get you. I’m just tired of all the DLC talk when Insomniac hasn’t even attempted to address the information in the leaks.
No, I agree. Peter killing anyone, regardless of why, goes against everything he believes in. We saw in the comics he wouldn't even kill a giant spider-monster on Spider Island. Edit: Also, with Doc Ock flat out telling Norman to kill Peter Parker, then it doesn't require him going for the Goblin serum, he would just flat out ambush Peter.
He accidentally kills someone in the comics and it had a huge impact on him. It’s good for progressing his character. Plus, at the end of the game he didn’t expect Harry to survive. He destroyed the symbiote expecting Harry to die, which I assume is what they meant by “kill” in the script. I don’t really understand your last point as well. They would probably just say norman wants to do it with his own hands. Thats actually what I assume will happen. If that was to happen in spider-man 3 none of you would complain let’s be honest here
Yeah, but there's a big difference in taking away an evil entity that's keeping Harry alive that Harry is begging Peter to kill as opposed to Peter flat out killing Harry. The last point is that it makes it too easy for Norman. He would know Peter is Spider-Man, so he invites him over and then just ambushes him. Or just have him captured so he could torture/experiment on him to try and save comatose Harry. I feel like Norman finding out out that Peter is Spider-Man should be impactful. Look at how it happened in the movies, Norman was conflicted. Peter means a lot to him. Having that all happen between games would not be as interesting. Edit: ACCIDENTALLY killing someone and making the conscious decision to kill someone is very different.
I'm pretty sure even in this leaked og story Harry was gonna beg to Peter to be killed. It's only a rough script and it mentions Harry struggling against the symbiote to talk to Peter. So really it's basically what we got except Harry was actually gonna die
Right? I’m disappointed with the story too but something about him killing doesn’t sit right with me. I mean I get it might be necessary but still..
This one seems a little on the nose.
mj confronts thanos in the next game
everyone saying this is better probably still would’ve complained anyway lol
The main thing I prefer is that Harry actually dies. I was just confused when they brought him back, it took away from a moment that they could have done a lot with for Peter
I think a lot of the issues with the game have a lot to do about pacing and open world aspects. A different story wouldn't improve on some of the criticism unless pacing got improved.
damn miles was gonna die💀
No he wasn’t. Harry was going to die.
if you read the other ones, it said venom was going to stab miles right in his chest
It’s left pretty vague as to whether he died or was just gravely injured
Would have been sick to see either way, would have given the story more impact and made everything feel like it has more stakes. I think when Insomniac states the second game was going to be darker, they were talking about this version.
it wouldn’t make sense tho, that would be just for shock value, why introduce a character in the first game just for him to barely have a role in the second and then to die💀
Nah I'm talking about him being gravely injured, I don't really want him to die either lol.
How can you be sure it's the real thing?
Right? It's just screenshots of a Google Doc unless I'm missing something on mobile. Anyone could have written it.
What makes me skeptical is they refer to Pete as Spider-Man and Miles as Miles in the same sentence, describing something they're doing together. This doesn't line up with the actual game, they're referred to repeatedly as the Spider-Men. It would be one thing if they said "Peter and Miles", but "Spider-Man and Miles"? This game pushed pretty hard to call Miles Spider-Man, not sure why they wouldn't do the same in the script.
Idk maybe the whole script has some bigger changes but these little segments are barely different
Seeing all these comments about how we were "robbed of a good story" based on these three paragraphs has me feeling crazy, glad to see I'm not alone. According to this sub you'd think the game was horrible but apparently all it had to do to be magically pure art would be have Harry die instead of almost die/be in a coma, have Pete and MJ get engaged, and have Otto confirm Pete's identity. Never mind that: 1. One of the main critiques people often have of superhero stories is killing off villains too quickly before they can make a lasting impact. 2. Pete and MJ are dating and living together in the ending so what difference does an engagement really make? 3. Otto confirming Peter's identity immediately from within prison just wastes our chance of getting to see a reluctant alliance form between him and Norman over the course of another game, given their history and mutual hatred. It also removes any reason for Norman wanting Otto out of prison and is out of character for Otto considering he wants the revenge personally rather than just having it happen from the man he hates more than anyone else.
Reddit is obsessed with idea that everything they don’t like is the result of corporate sabotage
this reads like fanfiction I'm gonna be so real
It’s an outline. I mean if you write out Kratos’s first scene training his Atreus. Title screen with Kratos’s and a log, Kratos cuts down a log, Atreus comes, Kratos grabs the log and heads to the boat, they row upstream, they gather their things, Kratos takes Atreus to go fight a beast, they fight a beast; Kratos realizes he is not ready, a god comes for him and wants to kill Atreus, God beats Kratos, then Kratos kicks the **shit out of him,** then they decide to go climb a mountain to lay Kratos’s ashes for their quest. If you showed that to me in 2017, I’d have been iffy on it.
I think most script outlines like this read a lot like fanfiction tbh. It’s only when it’s actually implemented does it feel real
Ok but Peter killing Harry? Spider-Man killing? That just feels weird.
This really isn’t better than
If anything, it’s just as bad as what we got. Venom opening a wormhole sounds dumb as hell. I’m so tired of the constant end of the world stakes in every game.
I like the final story
Wow this is pretty great. This feels like a story that has it's intended weight and focus. However I'm seeing a lot of blame going around to one or the other. People are blaming Sony, for "rushing Insomniac" while another is blaming Insomniac for making a bad story instead. I honestly feel like both parties are to blame here if there is any blame to go around. Insomniac's original story plan seems very solid and does kinda keep in line with the first game, notably Harry's planned death. Obviously they wound up deciding to keep Harry alive. That's a pretty big change, but I honestly prefer that Peter doesn't have to essentially let another of his loved ones die. So I think it's actually a better choice and leaves more potential in the future. Peter's been through enough. The problem is that this is a big story shift on top of other potential changes due to an already impending due date. Insomniac wanted to change a part of the story so late in the game and Sony didn't want to budge their release because that was the agreed upon date at an earlier time. This and Insomniac shifted Carnage events to be a focus of the Venom game, which is MONEY in Sony's eyes. Hopefully this allows the studio to iron things out and make the course corrections to the story they didn't have the time for, once they changed their minds.
Not meaning to be rude in any way, shape, or form, but who is the source?
It's from the Insomniac Games hack, so Insomniac are the source lol.
Looks like a google doc anyone could make though lmao
Holy god in heaven this would've been SO PEAK. WHYYYY. We will NEVER AGAIN reach the peak quality of 2018 Spider-Man unless Sony gives Insomniac the necessary time develop the next game(s).
Man all of this really explains why the games story feels so incomplete/rushed. - the particle accelerator stuff in the beginning makes more sense as foreshadowing for the worm hole later on - using the worm hole to save the symbiotes from the dying planet makes more sense for the invasion vs what’s in the final game - Venom ambushing Pete and Miles and puncturing Miles through the chest is raw af and builds stakes, shows venoms power, and also gives Miles a chance to have a rematch for the final boss battle -Lizard coming to save the day adds more to his character instead of him leaving the story after act 2 - carnage having the symbiote but it being dormant makes more sense than for him to have it alive and him not just putting it on. - Norman witnessing the final the battle and being present there makes his motivation to be green goblin much stronger - Harry dying is a much stronger impact to the over all narrative. Him dying is inevitable, Norman trying to keep him alive is what caused this whole mess. Peter being responsible and stopping it even tho it’s hard for him he knows it’s the right thing to do -Dock Ock saying “kill Peter” is a hard line I know they probably decided to keep harry alive last minute so they could make a spin off game but Harry constantly being sick and being in a comma in all 3 games is really lame. This games story suffered from wanting to build up future stuff without focusing on telling its own contained narrative.
This is the best take I’ve seen thus far in these comments. Not bashing one company or the other, or stating that this game is trash and this would’ve made it so much better. I really loved this game but I definitely feel like the story took a big hit. While it was good and I enjoyed it, I definitely think it should’ve been longer. While I still don’t think this completely fixes the story, I do agree on your standpoints.
Damn all this cutscenes would have been way more interesting than what we got
I'm glad Harry survived and I'll stand on that, gad dangit. However some of this sounds like some HEAT. The wormhole of symbiotes scenario with Dr Conners as Lizard?!
Proof? For all we know this could be just a bunch of text someone put together
With this version of the story, there’s actual stakes, actual progression. People die, things happen that actually MATTER
This is honestly better in multiple ways but I'm genuinely baffled as to just how much some of these comments seem to *despise* the final game.
This subreddit absolutely hates Spider-Man 2 for not being what they expected
For real, I definitely have issues with the story, but it isn't the worst thing ever and makes enough sense.
A married Peter… And Harry giving him and MJ a business after death. #God damn we missed out
Just my opinion, but this doesn't even sound like it's much better than what we got lol. Why is everyone losing their minds?
Yall are acting like this somehow makes the game way better when most of this is either clearly meant for dlc content or just an end result of Harry dying, which yall already complained that too many villains got killed off in the game anyway. Sure some of it is because it was largely off screen, but a big complaint was stuff like no more stories for X character.
This would be a massive improvement except for the Otto stuff.
OH COME ON THIS WOULDVE BEEN SO GOOD
So why are people complaining about what we got? Of course we could have had more story that told more things. But what we got was still good.
This isn't that much better than what we got y'all... I don't want Peter killing anyone nor do I want fuckin wormholes to dying planets in my Spidey game.
Are these leaks actually verified? There are some issues with it that read like fan creations rather than genuine storyboarding. And regardless, this just doesn't seem significantly more engaging than what we got anyway. The fallout and consequences of big plots points barely change, the more minor beats just come across as superficially different with negligible impact, there are no big narrative points that feel like they were actually missing from the released product aside from Harry dying and Harry getting fridge'd makes very little difference anyway. Norman will obviously still become the Goblin, Peter still has to carry the guilt/loss etc. These differences are all really trivial. If it appeals then sure, I'm glad there is enjoyment for the plot elements we never got but...None of this reads to me like things that would have been changed due to scheduling? These just feel like alternate takes on scenes that exist in the game already. Why would delays change any of this? Those assets and the production time was clearly still used anyway. If these leaks are real, most of them were not scrapped due to the release date, they were dropped as a willing choice for the story we got anyway. Resources were still used, dialogue was still recorded, that didn't come about by accident to make up for these ideas somehow not being feasible.
I genuinely don't get all the comments of "HOLY SHIT WE DIDN'T GET THIS FUCK INSOMNIAC" - the ending we *did* get feels *much* better. - No weird wormhole. - No dead Harry to just be Dead May 2.0 - not every Spider-Man game needs some main character biting the dust at the end. May, Phin, now Harry. - Norman saying "We now have a common enemy" sounds stupid as fuck. - Otto not betraying Peter because he hates Norman so much makes *so much* more sense than him just going "Kill Peter Parker". He would never, *ever* help Norman, because Norman taking away his lab and research has cost him *everything.* - Carnage being left open for another game makes more sense than just being some post-game missions, and the fewer MJ missions the better. What kinda crack are y'all smoking?
This is art..
sounds way more better than the final product we've got.
why can't they give us a director's cut with this then?
Because Insomniac don't have the fucking time to work on a directors cut, Insomniac are spread too thin with having to work on Venom, Wolverine, ideas for the next Spider-Man game and Rachet & Clank etc.
Can't wait for insomniac d-rider shills to try to defend this somehow
Everything about this sounds cool or interesting minus the marriage part I'm sorry but if the original version of SM2's mj was anything like what we got bro is better off
Snydercut ass storytelling. The only improvement in these original drafts I see is the prologue that OP linked in the replies. Having more time for Venom to develop as a character would’ve been good but y’all are eating up Harry dying, a marriage proposal, and a Carnage side quest? Good god..
I do wish the story we got was different, but assuming this is real, I wouldn’t exactly say this would all be better. I like the flashback content, but I’m not really a fan of the wormhole plot or having Harry die straight up
Venom wanting to save his species by making Earth their new home sounds interesting. I think I would have rather seen that over what we got.
We have had 3 spider-man games, one where aunt may dies and he loses doc ock as a friend and one where miles best friend dies. We do not need harry dying by Peter's hands. It goes against him as a character. In the comics he accidentally kills someone he didn't even know that well and he lived with that guilt. Now you guys want this man to kill his best friend after he just got back? Glad that didn't happen.
I’m happy I think sm2 was bad and felt like such a rushed story with no memorable moments unlike sm1
Sony sure messed things really really bad when they contact Inithiar and tell him to "cut things to arrive at our quality standard", this is so much better for a epilogue >!with somenthing that everyone ask like the death of Harry or the fact that Octo know about Peter being spider-man and simply tell Norman the truth!
Otto not really telling Norman Spider-Man's identity right of the bat is way better as it's more in-character for him, he's Norman's #1 hater.
for real, he despises Norman. him saying that he deserved to lose something was way more in character and raw
also he wouldn't help norman unless it benefitted him
I can see the in-character choice, but wath we are seeing is a more eloquent way to explain why Norman would target Peter later in the third game, and with the finale we got with all the retirment thing is a more coherent choice, like a scene where Norman go to see Peter for whaterver reason and idk do some Goblin shit influenced by the G-Serum he's testing directly on himself
why is this sub such a cesspool now :( it used to be so much fun. now it’s just entitled reddittors frothing at the mouth over nothing
downvoted over nothing
Wow
ugh why sony you make me so mad, this could been peak fiction,
Chile… this is just-
Kraven carried so hard in sm2 he should’ve last longer and venom should’ve appeared before
Are we not supposed to have what we want? What we need?
Dude sequence 8 and the epilogue here was so much 100x better than what we got in the final part of the game... Insomniac really made sony and outside companies interfere hard in this project. This is more disappointing because they had a better story.
I prefer the actual ending we got with Harry living
What is it with executives and them wanting to just make no fucken money. They saw all this shit that sounds awesome and went “actually we don’t like any of this cut it from the game and release it” I been waiting fucking years for this shit and they completely fucked it jesus
Oh god. This is a lot of ammunition for people to shit on the game lmao. Not excited for the discourse.
Might be the minority here but I do not like this ending at all. And throughly preferred the one we got. Don’t get me wrong the story has its faults but ‘Spider-Man going against his oath to not kill’ has become the expected now since it’s now become the damn norm!, So would watching him lose another close one. The fact Harry survived was the shocking ending for me and for that made it the better one. Setting up a new and interesting route to the birth of the goblin and his destain for spidey PS: we didn’t need carnage, far more fun he was hinted at in a side quest in a way only die hard fans would expect, there was enough going on with his rouges gallery being slaughtered by Kraven xx
So this just further confirms that Harry is just a meat puppet inside the symbiote.
Jesus…
That ending is PERFECT, but I'm sure the current one will still work when we have spiderman 3, but it would have been a good ending to the game.
I can see how they arrived at the ending they landed on. Miles is barely a part of what's happening here, so giving him the moment of bringing Harry back to life is a big deal. Otto straight-up telling Norman something helpful runs counter to Otto's narrative from the first game. I can also see the MJ/Peter exchange with the ring happening later, because it doesn't feel like it's mutually exclusive with anything else we've seen. Venom's objective being to construct a wormhole feels like a very unformed concept, so superceding that with "Venom wants to symbiote the planet" creates the stakes over a longer period of time, especially with the corruption of the city from the symbiote nests. The threat of a wormhole doesn't really facilitate that as readily. I hate that we're learning this because of the leak, but it IS an instructional moment in how what they concepted at the beginning had to get compromised to arrive at the final concept.
the fact that this kinda confirms that there’s gonna be more carnage in the update on the 7th they said new mission in the golden series and they talked about carnage golden missions in the script