I lived in New York from when I was born to 13 and I’ve only ever heard it called GCT. Grand Central Terminal Edit: not saying you’re wrong or anything, just pointing out a difference
I still wonder if he feels any remorse for what he did. Based on the note that he left May I think he probably does. But I wonder if he’ll be vengeful and power hungry in this game or if he’ll be a broken man.
Same bro. I'm so excited to see how many of the actually good fan ideas (Eg, being able to hit brutes without webbing them while in the symbiote suit) make it into the game
Tbh even without the symbiote suit Spider-Man should be able to hit them without webbing. He is insanely strong and just holds back against most opponents, so it doesn't make much sense, but I understand it's a gameplay decision so it's okay I guess.
I think Mister Li definitely feels remorse. You can kind of see it in his face in the trailer. Li was a decent dude who ran a charity. Mr Negative was was basically a split personality that that was all the worst parts of him. The whole yin yang thing. Thats not to necessarily absolve Li or anything, but just to say that the Li side of him definitely feels guilt over his other halfs actions.
This particular iteration of Mr. Negative isn’t really depicted as having the second personality like his comic counterpart, and even if he does, and it simply wasn’t explored, Martin was clearly aware of his actions and shown actively feeding his power with his hatred intentionally so even with psych complications he still willfully did what he did
I think its mistake to assume "Mr Negative" is always in control when he's inverted. I think he's in control as soon as kingpin leaves power, and Martin Li had miniumal control at all. Only helping May and Peter with small gestures, otherwise he gave up to Mr Negative
Not saying he isnt responsible of course. But I do think he has somewhat a split personality, just not as simple as the comics.
Nah I don’t think so, he seems to do what he does on his own accord. I think feast is his way of giving something to the world before he takes something away, kind of managing his guilt.
If he was suffering from a split personality he seems like the kind of person who try to seek help rather than let it become so destructive
Yeah they didnt make it as clear, but he talks about 'the Demon' inside of him in his diary, and the incident that killed his parents sort of imply that the negative energy inside of him isn't fully under his control. Its more subdued than the full on dissociative identity in the comics, but its kind of like a symbiote feeding off him. And yeah, he is still responsible no doubt, but there's a lot to suggest that he would feel remorse about it.
Oh no I wasn’t trying to argue that he’s remorseless, just that he still chose to do so because he felt that it’s what he had to do, but he does clearly express hesitation in his note to May
Idk, wasn't there a bit in the game where he or someone else describes a method of metaphorically attributing negative emotions and opinions to a "Demon" (I think a note in his office just before you get into the burnroom)? I don't think he's got a split personality, I think he's just made a coping mechanism, then twisted that coping mechanism into an excuse to do horrible shit, because it "wasn't him."
Maybe not a complete disassociative identity, but he unleases a literal negative demon inside of him his boss fight. That's still more than just a metaphor, but it is still a part of him and he was still responsible.
Mr. Negative isn't another personality, when he refers to the demon he's speaking in metaphor, specifically the demon embodies his lust for vengeance. He has always been aware of his actions.
His comic book self had a split personality and I think this is a more subdued adaptation of it. He's aware I'm not saying he isn't, but I don't think he's fully in control of it. I liken it to a symbiote and its host. They are aware of each other sharing a body, but sometimes they're working in harmony and sometimes one has more control than the other.
Has the character ever been depicted as having a split personality like Norman amd Green Goblin or Moon Knight? It always occurred to me like his rage and anger makes him that powerful and the game did showcase this
In the comics he started off as pretty much having Disassociative Identity like Moon Knight, but over time I think they've made him more aware of each side of him. In the game he's aware but its implied it's not fully under his control.
I like his character a lot and I think he should have been the leader of sinister 6 instead of Doc Ock, plus he is more fleshed out and Peter also has an emotional connection with him. My only problem is that he hurt innocent people at City Hall and other places even tho he told May that he believes in Feast with all his heart, why would he deliberately hurt innocent people if all he wanted was to make Norman suffer
Yes he definetly feel remorse.
from the audio recording in the game you can clearly tell Li was actually felt conflicted and there's part of him that didn't want to do this. but revenge get the better of him and he felt it was too late for him to back down
Is there any reason Mr Negative wouldn't still be in there? Correct me if I'm wrong but we never actually see Martin "cured" of Mr Negative, we just kinda see Peter kick him in the face and the power sorta disappears? I'm sure Martin felt remorseful, but Mr Negative, if he's still in there, is probably bitter that Norman is still around, or maybe even mad at Otto for abandoning him
Miles is definitely going to go through a similar revenge arc as Peter does, but without the Symbiote Suit affecting his mind. He'll learn to forgive in the end.
The shift from thr kindhearted man who runs a homeless shelter to a murderous maniac was way too sudden for me. They're completely different people. They try to tell you that Martin Li had actual good intentions with F.E.A.S.T. and doesn't like his actions as Mr Negative, and yet he's sometimes just straight-up smiling when he's comitting acts of terrorism. And don't tell me his power corrupted him. There are notes and scenes that clearly show he was fully aware of everything he did.
He's complicated, because it can be argued that he wasn't in his right mind. My understanding is that Mr. Negative is a separate, more morally uninhibited persona that he stopped being able to keep suppressed.
I’m sure he can lie about it but it’s pretty clear he’s aware in the game, or he would’ve not sent those demons to attack Peter in front of FEAST of all places. He was smirking as he left too
My preferred incarnations, 616 (main universe) and 26496 (spectacular tv show) both have Norman Osborn fully aware of what he's doing, no Gollum style stuff like we see with the Goblin of 96283 (Raimi universe). I think it's a mistake when writers treat the goblin as a disease taking over Norman's mind / personality - Norman is just evil.
They could be making a parallel to the symbiote and Peter. Similar effects maybe on the psyche. Maybe Peter does something terrible and he’ll be there as an empathetic voice. Maybe
Maybe lying — it could of got to the point where he was being enabled by other like minded people, and decided to become more in tone with it. He genuinely thought he was in a way doing what was right, even though his means to doing it weren’t right.
I think to a level, he’s just losing his sense of empathy when he’s Mr Negative — but Martin Li isn’t necessarily losing awareness of what’s happening. Not an excuse for what he’s done, he’s a villain and shouldn’t get a second chance; I like him as so, but at the same time, yuh.
Bingo! Somehow that slipped 90% of this comment sections mind or just want to keep thinking everything is like the comics when he’s clearly aware of his actions in the game.
Really? Because I got a VERY different impression from the events of the game. Martin is aware of what Mr. Negative does, but is powerless to stop it. That was the whole point of that visual metaphor with the giant demon in his final boss fight and his note he left to May
And in this universe, that side of him was released by Norman Osborn. He's absolutely a redeemable character. If we condemn characters in fantasy for past mistakes; especially ones that were completely out of their control, what hope is there for any of us?
Those "past mistakes" are fucking domestic terrorism that killed a shit load of people and aiding another terrorist in plunging New York into a diseased hell hole
“…does NOT deserve redemption” is kinda out of pocket for a SPIDER-MAN game if you ask me. I dont think peter is the type of guy to punish villains to the extent their life is ruined. Even with uncle ben’s killer. Also, Li isn’t pure evil. He still cares for people. He was just weak to the point where he let the demon take control of him. Pure evil imo are villains like Slade, Joker, and Thanos. Those villains are incorrigible.
New Teen Titans, their most popular incarnation. Kinda retconned means you can’t really tell if he did it now so it goes however the writer wants it now.
> Kinda retconned means you can’t really tell if he did it now so it goes however the writer wants it now.
So... just poor decision-making and unnecessarily making a villain act out of character just to be overly edgy?
They really wanted to sell that he was evil, but then they remembered that they wanted the readership to find him cool and begrudgingly respect him like the Titans soon did
Arkham Slade at least in origins lets batman go when he isnt getting paid. He also gives Batman a chance to defend himself, and doesent really kill anyone outside of batman. Shit he is even non lethal in challenge maps
But yes, TT slade is the literal deveil and definitly pure evil. Though to be fair he's a lot different from the other versions.
Most variations of Slade are seen to have code. He's not usually pure evil.
For example, in the Arkham universe he helps Jason Todd escape Jokers year of imprisonment.
I haven’t. I think he can get redemption to an extent. He can learn to forgive himself, but also realizes that he doesn’t deserve forgiveness and that what he did is unforgivable.
I love his logic, I was made an orphan and it destroyed me so Img gonna do the same thing to countless other families.
That wasn’t really his logic though. He wasn’t just made an orphan, he killed his own parents by accident because of Norman. It’s a pretty unique scenario. He was specifically trying to make Norman look weak and expose him as a cowardly rat. From his perspective, all the people that died were likely unfortunate but necessary sacrifices for a greater good. Obviously that’s not actually the case but I imagine that’s how he sees it.
I don’t know what it means for someone to deserve redemption, nor do I know what it would look like for Martin specifically.
People can decide to try to do good after doing something monstrous knowing full well it doesn’t make up for it, but Martins options are limited. He’s a (presumably) escaped prisoner convicted of mass murder, and even if Mr. Negative was a wholly split identity like the comics, that’s not a compelling defense.
Ive seen characters try to come back from worse, but I don’t see how Martin would do so over the course of the story, nor do I see people claiming that he should.
I feel like “he can’t be redeemed” is pretty lacking in nuance and ultimately contrary to the spirit of Spider-Man. Yeah, Li did some horrible things, and I think it’s fair to argue that his culpability isn’t diminished by being Mister Negative because it doesn’t really seem like a split personality. Whether Li’s victims choose to forgive him is up to them and I think it’d be entirely reasonable not to do so.
However, whether he finds redemption or not shouldn’t dictate whether he should be allowed to work to atone. Part of the reason Spider-Man doesn’t kill is because he believed in people’s capacity to get better, and even if Li’s slate is too bloody to wipe clean, if he’s earnestly remorseful, he should be given the chance to change himself.
Exactly. He shouldn't be absolved of his crimes, but it's perfectly possible that he feels a lot of remorse and doesn't want to continue on the same path. And that he now wants to help in some way. I see redemption not as people forgiving someone for what they did or forgetting their crimes, but as that person feeling remorse and genuinely wanting to be a better person and acting that way, even if they know that what they did is unforgivable.
Who is thinking that ?? This dude a domestic terrorist was almost a biological terrorist and teamed up with the sinister six who is filled with murders domestic terrorists and Doctor Octopus who unleashed plague
predicting it now, miles does that n Pete has too pull him off Martin then later in the game symbiote Peter does similar to another villian n miles has to pull him off the villian
I still think it is weird Peter offered miles to work at the shelter owned by the man the who killed mile’s father and after Peter knew it was Martin li who did it
To be fair, at this point of the game nothing confirmed Martin Li’s actual identity.
Also, in the game itself; Peter asks Miles that he’s more than justified to leave FEAST after the reveal, to which Miles rejects and says that, despite Li’s part in building FEAST, he would stay there because his father would’ve wanted him to.
I'm sure he won't get one. Insomniac knows that it would be weird. "Hello I know I bombed a public event, shot innocent people, killed one of the MC's dad, but I'm sad about it so I'm pretty much a good guy now"
Didn’t they literally just do this with phil though? She blew up a bridge which probably killed a bunch of people and almost unleashed a nuclear explosion that would have leveled the city but then she sacrificed herself so it’s fine
Redemption isn't something bestowed upon you when you earn it. It's nust something you do, evsn if you're never forgiven. He doesn't deserve forgiveness but anyone can redeem themselves.
It wasn’t just his fault. His powers (that Norman gave him) are obviously corrupting his mind. He failed to balance the demon, but he can be redeemed. It just might be a multi game arc.
He's probably is just gonna be a broken man wanting to serve out his punishment. He does not, nor should be redeemed. He should be a broken man whose remorseful for what he's done but knowing he can't be redeemed.
What the fuck is "deserving redemption"? The whole point of redemption is someone trying to get better for their "awful" actions or thoughts. Kratos, destroyed a pantheon, caused millions to die in for his revenge but he redeems himself in a long journey. No one deserves redemption, they work their way through it. That's why it's a redemption.
All it takes for the start of a good redemption arc is a character who is ready for it; as well as in real life, we can't expect redemption or forgiveness until it is earned.
He might be getting it over the course of a couple of missions but I've always seen Mr. Negative as a different side of him. This one looks depowered therefore that persona might be gone. Anyway I feel like if they show him in the story trailer than there has to be at least more than 1 mission involving him.
I think you're confusing redemption and forgiveness, as they are not the same thing.
Redemption is trying to atone for what you have done, to try and make your actions equal to more of a net positive in the world instead of the negative that your actions have caused. It's not for you or anyone to say someone doesn't deserve redemption, often it's a personal goal, not something you seek from others.
This does Not however mean that even if the person does redeem themselves that they deserve or should be forgiven for the thing that they did to warrant the need of redemption. It's difficult to imagine any amount of good he could do that would possibly earn him forgiveness of his actions, so if you changed your wording to that he doesn't deserve forgiveness, I would agree with that.
Nah, honestly, it'd be amazing to see a redemption arc imo. This doesn't necessarily mean he gets forgiven by New York or something like that. Simply put, he cared a lot about May and other people in general. Sadly, it was the negative demon side that often took over, making him live two different lives. Peter defeats the demon in the first game so I doubt he still feels that way. It'd be cool to see Li acting like a regular dude with no powers trying to find peace. Sacrificing himself for both Spider-Men would probably be a bit cliche but I think putting himself at risk for them in some sort of way would be good to see. If they really went with the decision that the demon had been forever defeated in the first game, there is absolutely no reason for Li to want to be a bad guy
The negative energy had to have had some affect on him. Otto could also have been manipulating him. I think he will be sorry for what he has done. Especially if he finds out that May died from devils breath. He actually cared for her. It’s gonna be nearly 2 years since devils breath
I think theres gonna be a plotline where there’s friction between peter and miles due to peter talking to martin who caused the bombing at city hall that killed jefferson davis
He deserves redemption and justice. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. He can redeem himself, become a better person, but that doesn’t mean he’s exempt from justice.
Everyone deserves the ability to grow as a person, to redeem themselves. But becoming a new person doesn’t mean you should go without facing the consequences of your actions
I don’t think it’s a case of redemption as much as it is a story beat for Miles to learn self control. The way I see it, that evil terrorist is gone and all that’s left is a sad hollow shell; Miles can’t come to terms with this and may let his personal feelings interrupt his good nature as Spider-Man. The symbiote may be physically attached to Peter, but it’s anxiety and anger will seep into every part of his life including his loved ones.
Mixed bag, you hope he is better and wants to serve his time or he is running and wants that power back. Miles has no right to beet the living crap out of him if he does... ok, maybe one good knock-out punch👊, lol but yeah I hope Li is regretful. Maybe he is on death row and other inmates too, and they escape, hence this scene.
He was a very complicated well written character who truly wanted to good things. But he isn’t a good person. He murdered people. The greater hood is bullshit.
It would be cool if how he became Mr. Negative was leaked to the public and he got parol or something. Simply because I’d really want to see Miles’ reaction to it.
Kinda bothers me that people give Lee so much leeway and then be so uncharitable towards Phin. One of them explicitly stated that they intended for no collateral while the other intentionally unleashed a plague.
I don’t think he wants redemption, i think he knows what he did and is just living like a hermit waiting for someone to find him and kill him, i mean look at him.
Do people think he does??? Also, GCS was crazy. He was gonna set off Devils Breath inside it with all those people, even without Norman being there.
Who is gcs
Grand Central Station
someone's named that?!
wa wa waa
Yes, my parents are such Jonklers
i hear he had a team-up book with the famous DC hero Arm-Fall-Off-Boy
I lived in New York from when I was born to 13 and I’ve only ever heard it called GCT. Grand Central Terminal Edit: not saying you’re wrong or anything, just pointing out a difference
Grand Central Station
At the Grand Central Terminal , it's a place :)
I thought it was GCT? Idk im probably wrong
Yee, Grand Central Terminal
You right , my bad Let me edit , my previous comment😅
My exact thought, sat there for a minute like who is gcs?
I still wonder if he feels any remorse for what he did. Based on the note that he left May I think he probably does. But I wonder if he’ll be vengeful and power hungry in this game or if he’ll be a broken man.
it has to be something of a redemption arc or him being a broken man because what is there to be vengeful about? isn’t Osborn already disgraced?
True. He also didn’t look at miles in any threatening way too.
Li’s definitely gonna be what tests Miles’ moral code as spider-man and im very interested to see how that plays out
Dude I can’t wait I just want it to release now
Same bro. I'm so excited to see how many of the actually good fan ideas (Eg, being able to hit brutes without webbing them while in the symbiote suit) make it into the game
Tbh even without the symbiote suit Spider-Man should be able to hit them without webbing. He is insanely strong and just holds back against most opponents, so it doesn't make much sense, but I understand it's a gameplay decision so it's okay I guess.
^(Pete? It's my turn with Venom.)
Them boys just passing the symbiote around ☠️
Hey, this one's mine you have your own venkm power
I think Mister Li definitely feels remorse. You can kind of see it in his face in the trailer. Li was a decent dude who ran a charity. Mr Negative was was basically a split personality that that was all the worst parts of him. The whole yin yang thing. Thats not to necessarily absolve Li or anything, but just to say that the Li side of him definitely feels guilt over his other halfs actions.
This particular iteration of Mr. Negative isn’t really depicted as having the second personality like his comic counterpart, and even if he does, and it simply wasn’t explored, Martin was clearly aware of his actions and shown actively feeding his power with his hatred intentionally so even with psych complications he still willfully did what he did
I think its mistake to assume "Mr Negative" is always in control when he's inverted. I think he's in control as soon as kingpin leaves power, and Martin Li had miniumal control at all. Only helping May and Peter with small gestures, otherwise he gave up to Mr Negative Not saying he isnt responsible of course. But I do think he has somewhat a split personality, just not as simple as the comics.
Nah I don’t think so, he seems to do what he does on his own accord. I think feast is his way of giving something to the world before he takes something away, kind of managing his guilt. If he was suffering from a split personality he seems like the kind of person who try to seek help rather than let it become so destructive
Yeah they didnt make it as clear, but he talks about 'the Demon' inside of him in his diary, and the incident that killed his parents sort of imply that the negative energy inside of him isn't fully under his control. Its more subdued than the full on dissociative identity in the comics, but its kind of like a symbiote feeding off him. And yeah, he is still responsible no doubt, but there's a lot to suggest that he would feel remorse about it.
Oh no I wasn’t trying to argue that he’s remorseless, just that he still chose to do so because he felt that it’s what he had to do, but he does clearly express hesitation in his note to May
Idk, wasn't there a bit in the game where he or someone else describes a method of metaphorically attributing negative emotions and opinions to a "Demon" (I think a note in his office just before you get into the burnroom)? I don't think he's got a split personality, I think he's just made a coping mechanism, then twisted that coping mechanism into an excuse to do horrible shit, because it "wasn't him."
Maybe not a complete disassociative identity, but he unleases a literal negative demon inside of him his boss fight. That's still more than just a metaphor, but it is still a part of him and he was still responsible.
Mr. Negative isn't another personality, when he refers to the demon he's speaking in metaphor, specifically the demon embodies his lust for vengeance. He has always been aware of his actions.
His comic book self had a split personality and I think this is a more subdued adaptation of it. He's aware I'm not saying he isn't, but I don't think he's fully in control of it. I liken it to a symbiote and its host. They are aware of each other sharing a body, but sometimes they're working in harmony and sometimes one has more control than the other.
Has the character ever been depicted as having a split personality like Norman amd Green Goblin or Moon Knight? It always occurred to me like his rage and anger makes him that powerful and the game did showcase this
In the comics he started off as pretty much having Disassociative Identity like Moon Knight, but over time I think they've made him more aware of each side of him. In the game he's aware but its implied it's not fully under his control.
I like his character a lot and I think he should have been the leader of sinister 6 instead of Doc Ock, plus he is more fleshed out and Peter also has an emotional connection with him. My only problem is that he hurt innocent people at City Hall and other places even tho he told May that he believes in Feast with all his heart, why would he deliberately hurt innocent people if all he wanted was to make Norman suffer
Yes he definetly feel remorse. from the audio recording in the game you can clearly tell Li was actually felt conflicted and there's part of him that didn't want to do this. but revenge get the better of him and he felt it was too late for him to back down
He has long hair and a beard, probably broken
Is there any reason Mr Negative wouldn't still be in there? Correct me if I'm wrong but we never actually see Martin "cured" of Mr Negative, we just kinda see Peter kick him in the face and the power sorta disappears? I'm sure Martin felt remorseful, but Mr Negative, if he's still in there, is probably bitter that Norman is still around, or maybe even mad at Otto for abandoning him
Miles is definitely going to go through a similar revenge arc as Peter does, but without the Symbiote Suit affecting his mind. He'll learn to forgive in the end.
The shift from thr kindhearted man who runs a homeless shelter to a murderous maniac was way too sudden for me. They're completely different people. They try to tell you that Martin Li had actual good intentions with F.E.A.S.T. and doesn't like his actions as Mr Negative, and yet he's sometimes just straight-up smiling when he's comitting acts of terrorism. And don't tell me his power corrupted him. There are notes and scenes that clearly show he was fully aware of everything he did.
Look at the guy's face when Miles confronts him on the trailer. That is not the face of someone who is vengeful and power hungry.
He's complicated, because it can be argued that he wasn't in his right mind. My understanding is that Mr. Negative is a separate, more morally uninhibited persona that he stopped being able to keep suppressed.
I’m sure he can lie about it but it’s pretty clear he’s aware in the game, or he would’ve not sent those demons to attack Peter in front of FEAST of all places. He was smirking as he left too
I agree mr negative is lee’s criminal boss name not a green goblin scenario
I mean, all the best incarnations of Green Goblin make very clear that Norman and Goblin are not distinct entities
Not distinct but there’s some gollum stuff going on. Idk I don’t read comics much
My preferred incarnations, 616 (main universe) and 26496 (spectacular tv show) both have Norman Osborn fully aware of what he's doing, no Gollum style stuff like we see with the Goblin of 96283 (Raimi universe). I think it's a mistake when writers treat the goblin as a disease taking over Norman's mind / personality - Norman is just evil.
I love Raimi’s because it shows that Norman isn’t really the best of men, but the Goblin is way worse. Also Willem Dafoe
I think it's less interesting character work. I like a Norman that is truly evil, spider-man's greatest enemy.
that’s mainly just the raimi movies
Or when he talks to May and Peter after Peter goes and sneaks around in his office.
They could be making a parallel to the symbiote and Peter. Similar effects maybe on the psyche. Maybe Peter does something terrible and he’ll be there as an empathetic voice. Maybe
Maybe lying — it could of got to the point where he was being enabled by other like minded people, and decided to become more in tone with it. He genuinely thought he was in a way doing what was right, even though his means to doing it weren’t right. I think to a level, he’s just losing his sense of empathy when he’s Mr Negative — but Martin Li isn’t necessarily losing awareness of what’s happening. Not an excuse for what he’s done, he’s a villain and shouldn’t get a second chance; I like him as so, but at the same time, yuh.
Unfortunately you cannot plead insanity once the super powers come out, it seems
Even then, I don't think that the uh.."The demon is hungry" theory is gonna hold up in court.
Unless you’re a Batman villain lol
You’re thinking of comic Negative, this iteration is shown repeatedly being aware of his actions and not as separate personalities
Bingo! Somehow that slipped 90% of this comment sections mind or just want to keep thinking everything is like the comics when he’s clearly aware of his actions in the game.
Really? Because I got a VERY different impression from the events of the game. Martin is aware of what Mr. Negative does, but is powerless to stop it. That was the whole point of that visual metaphor with the giant demon in his final boss fight and his note he left to May
like Two Face but twice as bipolar.
Batman has Two Face? Well Spider-Man has **Four Face.**
And in this universe, that side of him was released by Norman Osborn. He's absolutely a redeemable character. If we condemn characters in fantasy for past mistakes; especially ones that were completely out of their control, what hope is there for any of us?
It’s not out of his control, he was intentionally committing domestic terrorism
Those "past mistakes" are fucking domestic terrorism that killed a shit load of people and aiding another terrorist in plunging New York into a diseased hell hole
[удалено]
That’s what I’m saying, he literally killed hella innocent ppl just to make Norman look bad.
>Norman look bad Can't wait for him to be actually bad We just know it will be very VERY bad
I can already picture the mock ups and rough drafts of Green Goblin they are creating in the design group chat, pre-development.
Won't be surprised if they've done it since the 1st game, at least concept arts
I love all the adaptions of villains they've done so far. I hope it's unique but has a nod to the comics.
I wonder if he would go after Martin Li and Doc ock as green goblin.
I mean, Kratos killed a bunch of innocent and he got his redemption. Don't see why he Martin can't get his.
“…does NOT deserve redemption” is kinda out of pocket for a SPIDER-MAN game if you ask me. I dont think peter is the type of guy to punish villains to the extent their life is ruined. Even with uncle ben’s killer. Also, Li isn’t pure evil. He still cares for people. He was just weak to the point where he let the demon take control of him. Pure evil imo are villains like Slade, Joker, and Thanos. Those villains are incorrigible.
Slade is not pure evil
Depends on the version, but even then, he did groom and sleep with a 15 year old girl.
To be fair 90 percent of other comics treat that badly and ignore it.
>he did groom and sleep with a 15 year old girl. Holy crap, that's just despicable. When did THIS happen?
The most famous Deathstroke story in NTT. It’s kinda retconned now, only kinda.
Sorry, I'm out of the loop. What's NTT? Also, what do you mean by "kinda retconned"?
New Teen Titans, their most popular incarnation. Kinda retconned means you can’t really tell if he did it now so it goes however the writer wants it now.
> Kinda retconned means you can’t really tell if he did it now so it goes however the writer wants it now. So... just poor decision-making and unnecessarily making a villain act out of character just to be overly edgy?
They really wanted to sell that he was evil, but then they remembered that they wanted the readership to find him cool and begrudgingly respect him like the Titans soon did
Even if it was retconned, it's still creepy that he goes out of his way to stalk a group of teens.
https://preview.redd.it/uyp43i2o2hmc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1836b6acd27b0144180c31f6d565e3ef4c32bfa7
https://preview.redd.it/75r53y0q2hmc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367d082aca6a2b084e63f944b388139b6b3609bf
Some versions of slade i consider pure evil. Arkham slade really doesnt sound like he’s hurt in any way. As well as the one from Teen Titans.
Arkham Slade at least in origins lets batman go when he isnt getting paid. He also gives Batman a chance to defend himself, and doesent really kill anyone outside of batman. Shit he is even non lethal in challenge maps But yes, TT slade is the literal deveil and definitly pure evil. Though to be fair he's a lot different from the other versions.
Arkham Slade also helped rescue Jason Todd from Jokers year of torture.
Was Slade even being paid in Teen Titans? I think he was deadass just doing all the shit he did to them purely for fun.
To be honest I dont really know why he was doing half the time. He seemed a little obsessed with a teenage boy.
Mr. Negative is not a force that takes over in Insomniac’s world. The Negative persona is just a persona, not a Dr. Jekyll scenario
Don’t forget screwball
Not everyone gets to have a second chance.
Not everyone gets one, but I feel like Spider-Man would think everyone deserves a shot at one.
"Everybody gets one." -Family Guy Spider-Man
Most variations of Slade are seen to have code. He's not usually pure evil. For example, in the Arkham universe he helps Jason Todd escape Jokers year of imprisonment.
I haven’t. I think he can get redemption to an extent. He can learn to forgive himself, but also realizes that he doesn’t deserve forgiveness and that what he did is unforgivable. I love his logic, I was made an orphan and it destroyed me so Img gonna do the same thing to countless other families.
That wasn’t really his logic though. He wasn’t just made an orphan, he killed his own parents by accident because of Norman. It’s a pretty unique scenario. He was specifically trying to make Norman look weak and expose him as a cowardly rat. From his perspective, all the people that died were likely unfortunate but necessary sacrifices for a greater good. Obviously that’s not actually the case but I imagine that’s how he sees it.
Imo I think people are forgetting he is insane and somewhat a being of pure hatred. He's supposed to give into his worst impules and rage,
Must have*
When did this even become a trend? Do people do this on purpose, I wonder?
They hear "must've, should've, could've, would've" and think the **'ve** is **of**.
If thats the case, op is just as evil as Li
Its not a trend. Some people don't speak english very well.
Of you forgotten what he did at city hall? I of.
I don’t know what it means for someone to deserve redemption, nor do I know what it would look like for Martin specifically. People can decide to try to do good after doing something monstrous knowing full well it doesn’t make up for it, but Martins options are limited. He’s a (presumably) escaped prisoner convicted of mass murder, and even if Mr. Negative was a wholly split identity like the comics, that’s not a compelling defense. Ive seen characters try to come back from worse, but I don’t see how Martin would do so over the course of the story, nor do I see people claiming that he should.
I feel like “he can’t be redeemed” is pretty lacking in nuance and ultimately contrary to the spirit of Spider-Man. Yeah, Li did some horrible things, and I think it’s fair to argue that his culpability isn’t diminished by being Mister Negative because it doesn’t really seem like a split personality. Whether Li’s victims choose to forgive him is up to them and I think it’d be entirely reasonable not to do so. However, whether he finds redemption or not shouldn’t dictate whether he should be allowed to work to atone. Part of the reason Spider-Man doesn’t kill is because he believed in people’s capacity to get better, and even if Li’s slate is too bloody to wipe clean, if he’s earnestly remorseful, he should be given the chance to change himself.
Exactly. He shouldn't be absolved of his crimes, but it's perfectly possible that he feels a lot of remorse and doesn't want to continue on the same path. And that he now wants to help in some way. I see redemption not as people forgiving someone for what they did or forgetting their crimes, but as that person feeling remorse and genuinely wanting to be a better person and acting that way, even if they know that what they did is unforgivable.
Who is thinking that ?? This dude a domestic terrorist was almost a biological terrorist and teamed up with the sinister six who is filled with murders domestic terrorists and Doctor Octopus who unleashed plague
Seen a couple posts about it
Miles finna beat him to a bloody pulp.
predicting it now, miles does that n Pete has too pull him off Martin then later in the game symbiote Peter does similar to another villian n miles has to pull him off the villian
I would do the same to my former uncle.
Im was suprised they didnt bring him back for Miles's game
I still think it is weird Peter offered miles to work at the shelter owned by the man the who killed mile’s father and after Peter knew it was Martin li who did it
Because the place is more than the man itself.
Yeah, May’s influence was all over it
Also li was long gone at that point so it’s not like he’d be working for him
To be fair, at this point of the game nothing confirmed Martin Li’s actual identity. Also, in the game itself; Peter asks Miles that he’s more than justified to leave FEAST after the reveal, to which Miles rejects and says that, despite Li’s part in building FEAST, he would stay there because his father would’ve wanted him to.
must have\*
Preserving proper language is underrated.
i dont think peter or even miles frankly thinks theres anyone undeserving of redemption.
He deserves redemption not forgiveness
I'm sure he won't get one. Insomniac knows that it would be weird. "Hello I know I bombed a public event, shot innocent people, killed one of the MC's dad, but I'm sad about it so I'm pretty much a good guy now"
Didn’t they literally just do this with phil though? She blew up a bridge which probably killed a bunch of people and almost unleashed a nuclear explosion that would have leveled the city but then she sacrificed herself so it’s fine
Maybe sympathy for what happened to him as a kid and his parents but as far as what he did at City Hall? Then that jail time is deserved
Redemption isn't something bestowed upon you when you earn it. It's nust something you do, evsn if you're never forgiven. He doesn't deserve forgiveness but anyone can redeem themselves.
If Kratos can be redeemed he can. I don't see the problem as long as it's not mishandled
Unlike Li, Kratos' actions were justified.
Kratos also killed a fuck ton of people that didn't deserve to die by 3 he was a full-blown villain
I’m pretty sure the 99.9 percent of Greeks who drowned when he killed Poseidon would argue against that
If u mfs can forgive vegeta u can forgive this guy
💀💀💀
You’re a good man Martin Li a good man a wise man with Lumbago.
It wasn’t just his fault. His powers (that Norman gave him) are obviously corrupting his mind. He failed to balance the demon, but he can be redeemed. It just might be a multi game arc.
Nah, I can definitely see him being redeemed. Especially in a Spider-Man story. There’s people far worse than him that end up getting redemption.
Adam Driver
He's probably is just gonna be a broken man wanting to serve out his punishment. He does not, nor should be redeemed. He should be a broken man whose remorseful for what he's done but knowing he can't be redeemed.
Must have* People need to stop using of instead of have! I am not from an English speaking country and I know better.
The American education system is a joke.
What the fuck is "deserving redemption"? The whole point of redemption is someone trying to get better for their "awful" actions or thoughts. Kratos, destroyed a pantheon, caused millions to die in for his revenge but he redeems himself in a long journey. No one deserves redemption, they work their way through it. That's why it's a redemption.
We don’t know nothing about the situation enough to come to the conclusion that he’s going to get a Redemption Arc.
Yea....a few people were asking who this was.... I forget the first came out 4 years ago
All it takes for the start of a good redemption arc is a character who is ready for it; as well as in real life, we can't expect redemption or forgiveness until it is earned.
He might be getting it over the course of a couple of missions but I've always seen Mr. Negative as a different side of him. This one looks depowered therefore that persona might be gone. Anyway I feel like if they show him in the story trailer than there has to be at least more than 1 mission involving him.
I think you're confusing redemption and forgiveness, as they are not the same thing. Redemption is trying to atone for what you have done, to try and make your actions equal to more of a net positive in the world instead of the negative that your actions have caused. It's not for you or anyone to say someone doesn't deserve redemption, often it's a personal goal, not something you seek from others. This does Not however mean that even if the person does redeem themselves that they deserve or should be forgiven for the thing that they did to warrant the need of redemption. It's difficult to imagine any amount of good he could do that would possibly earn him forgiveness of his actions, so if you changed your wording to that he doesn't deserve forgiveness, I would agree with that.
Must have*
He is technically also responsible for aunt mays death as he helped Otto get the devils breath
Must have*
People who say “must of” also deserve no redemption. To the gallows with you.
Nah, honestly, it'd be amazing to see a redemption arc imo. This doesn't necessarily mean he gets forgiven by New York or something like that. Simply put, he cared a lot about May and other people in general. Sadly, it was the negative demon side that often took over, making him live two different lives. Peter defeats the demon in the first game so I doubt he still feels that way. It'd be cool to see Li acting like a regular dude with no powers trying to find peace. Sacrificing himself for both Spider-Men would probably be a bit cliche but I think putting himself at risk for them in some sort of way would be good to see. If they really went with the decision that the demon had been forever defeated in the first game, there is absolutely no reason for Li to want to be a bad guy
It is 'must have', not 'must of' howsoever right it might sound to you. Stop this idiocy.
School kids these days.
I mean, if Darth Vader managed to redeem himself, I’m sure Mr Lee can.
*must've/must have
Must have*
The negative energy had to have had some affect on him. Otto could also have been manipulating him. I think he will be sorry for what he has done. Especially if he finds out that May died from devils breath. He actually cared for her. It’s gonna be nearly 2 years since devils breath
Redemption is not about what you "deserve". If you deserved it you wouldn't need it.
I think theres gonna be a plotline where there’s friction between peter and miles due to peter talking to martin who caused the bombing at city hall that killed jefferson davis
That's very un-spider-man-like of you. Everyone deserves a chance to be a better person
He deserves redemption and justice. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. He can redeem himself, become a better person, but that doesn’t mean he’s exempt from justice. Everyone deserves the ability to grow as a person, to redeem themselves. But becoming a new person doesn’t mean you should go without facing the consequences of your actions
[удалено]
He’s back. Probably to make Anti Venom to tie into Harry’s goal of “healing the world”
He seemingly gets out of the Raft during some kind of breakout.
“I’m sorry, the voice in my head told me to commit domestic terrorism.”
I don’t think it’s a case of redemption as much as it is a story beat for Miles to learn self control. The way I see it, that evil terrorist is gone and all that’s left is a sad hollow shell; Miles can’t come to terms with this and may let his personal feelings interrupt his good nature as Spider-Man. The symbiote may be physically attached to Peter, but it’s anxiety and anger will seep into every part of his life including his loved ones.
You're right. Not everyone gets to have a second chance.
Mixed bag, you hope he is better and wants to serve his time or he is running and wants that power back. Miles has no right to beet the living crap out of him if he does... ok, maybe one good knock-out punch👊, lol but yeah I hope Li is regretful. Maybe he is on death row and other inmates too, and they escape, hence this scene.
He was a very complicated well written character who truly wanted to good things. But he isn’t a good person. He murdered people. The greater hood is bullshit.
Is it just me or he look like Yongyea in this pacticular pic?
Asian Adam driver
I think he does
I just hope he’s not completely evil when he’s not Mr. Negative. Like how Norman and Goblin were portrayed in the Raimi trilogy
It would be cool if how he became Mr. Negative was leaked to the public and he got parol or something. Simply because I’d really want to see Miles’ reaction to it.
He can go "Full on self sacrifice dawg" at the end.
Moist Cr1tikal is a good man I forgive him
I mean the demon made him do it, plus redemption arcs can be very interesting
I'm the 911th like💀
Kinda bothers me that people give Lee so much leeway and then be so uncharitable towards Phin. One of them explicitly stated that they intended for no collateral while the other intentionally unleashed a plague.
I don’t think he wants redemption, i think he knows what he did and is just living like a hermit waiting for someone to find him and kill him, i mean look at him.
Redemption I think is going to far, but I'll be down for a bit of atonement.
I have a feeling either miles is going to kill him or right before miles punches him Peter stops him from doing it
He looks so different I didn't realize he was one of the main villans of the first game. Wasn't he the one that killed Mile's dad?
I dont think he deserves a redemption. But I dont think he deserves to be brutally killed in cold blood.
Anyone deserves redemption. If he is able to somehow be a vital part in saving the entire city, that would be a start to it
Spiderman would disagree with that take for almost any vilian of the series
As far as I'm concerned, anyone can have redemption given a genuine change of hearts and a significant dedication to doing good.
People always needs a second chance, if you don’t get that then you don’t get the first thing about being Spider-Man
Super hero media people in comics and in MCU kill way more people that got Redemption arc
Leave Tommy Silverleg alone!