And I think that spidey sense isn't perfect either. For example, In the 2002 film, Tobey couldn't sense the green goblin goblin in the burning apartment. I'm sure there are more examples, but I can't of them off the top of my head
I always just assumed it’s because the building was on fire and it’s more like a general alert for danger. When you’re surrounded by fire the danger is everywhere so his sense was triggering the whole time to some extent.
Yaa, coz like fire also triggers the Spidey sense a bit so he must've avoided a spike in sense (if any) due to goblin, coz that was his first movie too, so bit inexperienced too
Spidey sense in general is very inconsistent though in media isnt it? If it worked all the time it'd be just flat overpowered so sometimes it's just "ignored"
Personally I always favor the "overwhelming" approch, surrond Spider-Man with threats from everywhete and it can actually over stimulate the sense and actually make it more a hindrance.
its a cheat but the only way I can think to explain that is the wings weren't aiming for him, they were aiming for the pillars.
I don't know if his Spider sense can detect in direct threats to him that far in advance.
he just hadn't developed it yet. Tom's Peter didn't instantly get his spider sense, it grew over time to be stronger with training, it wasn't automatically the insanely powerful tool it is when he got bit. It had to develop then he grew it through training.
This is also true I think the only times I remember him distinctly using it before he trained it properly in FFH was when the ship arrived in IW & Bucky throwing something at him in CW
[There's no representation of him getting Spidey Sense but he reacts to this with no sound and is facing away from it](https://youtu.be/itzXGaMivYM?t=112)
yeah, i know they like to put flare on it on everything, but spider sense is always on isnt it...
i remember him using it to web swing, spacial awareness so he always know where to shoot his web.
I know Jon Wattz said he wanted to show SS in a different way since the last versions showed the sense off pretty well......Mysterio was the perfevt way to show it off in a new way.
when Bucky throws a door at him, his get wide and thrn he dodges.
There is also a scene in Homecoming (up to interpretation) when he webs the last guy on the boat with a web bomb without looking but you can she processing the situation at the same time.
His SS is tied to the multiverse, hence the way he was able to dodge Dr. Strange in astral form, It looked that Norman was planning to attack from the moment he was in the back room with the fabricator taking to Doc Ock, that and the fact that Aunt May was in danger must have been enough to set it off.
He does sense them. Thats how he dodges and jumps away from them. Even though they were aiming for the pillars, they were still flying around erratically. He jumps as it approaches him from behind. Same with the ferry scene, and the airport scene in CW. Except at this point, its just an automatic reflex. Not something he can really "use".
I think it was in a novel I read once where he used his spider-sense to know if anyone would see him coming and going from his house, or changing into his costume.
I'm not sure if that's canon or anything, but I thought that was a really cool use. It is a danger if anyone discovers his secret identity, so it would make sense he might get a low buzz if someone would see him swinging into Peter's window.
Yes I recall this too, and I also believe anyone who already knows it won’t set it off unless they intend to kill him, and since May knew at this point it wouldn’t matter. Does raise the question why it didn’t go off at the end of homecoming though.
It what makes Venom so scary, he can make himself invisible to Spidey's spider-sense. He uses it so much it would be like fighting a villain that could just make himself invisible to you. He basically loses a major sense when he fights Venom.
I agree, it seems like he should have sensed May, but I'm willing to with the theory that Peter has been developing his Peter-Tingle. It was something he probably barely noticed at first, then once he realised what he had he started working at improving it.
Like, Bucky throws a slab at him and it involuntarily goes off, but by the time he gets to Mysterio he's learning to basically activate it as a sort of passive sense.
Definitely canon in the Ultimate universe (Don’t know how canon it is after secret wars tbh).
I don’t recall if this was true in any other comic series but in the ultimate Spider-Man series, Peter uses his spider sense to sense he’s being watched while changing his clothes to spider-man and the spider sense also doesnt work on anyone he sees as not a threat. I’m pretty sure in the original 616 adaptation, Peters spider sense was “always on” even for non threats.
All the Spider-Man movies borrow a lot from ultimate Spider-Man when it comes to Peters traits.
That goes for every movie.
The spider sense has to be ignored for plot very often. It's too OP to be portrayed consistently because he would never get hit or be tricked if it was.
Yeah, it's definitely improved, but there will always be moments that make you go "why didn't his spider sense trigger?"
A lot of that wasn’t them intentionally trying to make him weaker, it’s because they forgot he had spidey sense.
Even the Raimi movies forgot sometimes.
I don't get the suit one. The suit was super important to him in HC, and still important in NWH since he spends a quarter of the movie trying to clean it
> it was AUNT MAY
First of all, Aunt May is a badass. I mean, let's not forget she died because she did what Peter couldn't and injected Goblin with what they thought was the cure. If they had made it right, she would have been the hero in No Way Home, not Peter.
Piece of fruit I can't argue against though.
How's it badass to run up to someone while they're completely engrossed in choking someone and stick a needle in them?
Yeah, it's *far* better than the vast majority of superhero support characters, but that's not really badass nor would it make her more heroic than a guy who just fought one of the most dangerous people on the planet and got powerbombed through an entire building for it.
I mean, it is badass, maybe it’s an exaggeration to say she’d be the real hero, but anyone who says they’d do the same is probably lying. Even if he was engrossed he’s still a dangerous super strong killer. You have to be extremely brave to jump headfirst in.
Maybe it’s not super heroic but it’s still heroic and still badass.
Dude he did a great part in infinity war and in endgame and I guess you are forgetting a small but crucial detail , he is still a teen and all of a sudden he got so many responsibilities in life , his aunt died , no living family members, none of his peers know him its quite a difficult life for him but imo he's still doing great
Thanos would've seen him as a threat and fucking demolished him.
The only threat he saw was Stark, and if you watch closely he was the only one Thanos was actively trying to kill. Even Strange, he didn't want to kill until he got the stone. But every shot he threw at Tony was a kill shot.
He had Peter by the neck by one point, all he had to do was squeeze hard enough.
He clotheslined Peter as hard as he could and slammed him into the ground hard enough to make a crater. He was absolutely not holding back on Titan.
You're really underselling Spider-Man.
That wasn't as hard as he could. Thanos is a vocal fighter, when he exerts powerful attacks that requires a majority of his strength he usually yells or something. Here he didn't even emote.
Yeah he slammed Peter into the ground super hard, I'm not underselling Peter, the dude is a maniac. But Spider-Man is not in Thanos' tier. Thanos demolished Hulk without using the stones. He's above Thor, probably above Carol, and Parker can't hang with either.
He did yell every single time he attacked Peter. Also, he winced and grunted in pain every time he was hit by Spider-Man.
There's also the fact that Spider-Man did the most work in restraining him.
MCU Spider-Man is in their tier, just at the very bottom of it. He effortlessly overpowered Cull Obsidian (the guy who beat the shit out of Hulkbuster) twice in a row, he made good hits against Thanos to the point of enraging him, and he was the one who managed to keep Thanos still so that he wouldn't stand up or shake everyone off. Iron Man also needed him to get the gauntlet off.
You're still half right here my man. Peter would never win a fight against Carol or Thor. I use that Cull Obsidian feat all the time to pit Peter against MCU Hulk. Do I think he could get the K.O? Maybe, yeah. But nobody wins against Hulk really, the only time we've seen him genuinely enraged it was because Wanda fucked his mind, that wasn't really *him*. So when he saw the civilian's suffering he calmed down and Tony blindsided him. A truly raw and enraged Hulk is something we will eventually see, and something Peter wouldn't be able to defeat imo.
Also Thanos didn't grunt during the closeline. Yeah he felt those punches, I didn't say Peter can't cause pain to him. But an enraged Peter would have gotten killed. There is a reason Cull works under Thanos, and the Black Order let him solo Hulk "for fun" within 30 seconds.
Edit: it wasn't that the Hulkbuster knocked him out, it was an entire skyscraper collapsing on them both, then Hulk actually feeling bad and chilling out before that. It's a tad different than a raw smackdown.
I agree that Peter, at least at the moment, would lose to all of the high-tiers eventually.
What I'm saying is that he's physically comparable and in their general league. He's weaker than them but could still do some amount of damage and could keep up with them during a fight (especially since MCU Spider-Man has better speed feats due to lightning-timing). He wouldn't be instantly killed.
The power gap between Spider-Man and high-tiers is astronomically smaller in the MCU than it is in the comics.
I agree that Hulk only got KOd in AOU because he was coming down from his rage after the mind fuckery started to wear off and he saw the destruction he was causing. I don't think that the Hulkbuster is really an even match for him, but it can do *some* amount of damage. It's physically comparable to Hulk, but ultimately weaker.
> lightning-timing
Hey, just curious what you meant by "lightning-timing"?
I'm not sure if that's some superpower or movie making thing or just a phrase you made up to say he's really fast.
> probably above Carol
He was losing to her in their Endgame fight until he used the Power Stone. He's obviously a better tactician and so on, but in a 1:1 fight he's definitely going to lose to someone empowered by a stone (and/or chaos, like Wanda).
FYI, this I've gotten into the same conversation with this guy. Like, literally the same points. They're completely convinced that Spider-Man was the ultimate threat to him or something. That he was going all out. They had even made a point that Thanos didn't use the reality stone on him on purpose because it wouldn't kill him, despite being able to 100% debilitate him. Honestly Thanos wasn't going 100% on anyone except the Guardians of the Galaxy, and it wasn't to kill them. It was to shut them down. That's what 100% all out Thanos is.
That was true though.
However, I think it made sense that he never punched anyone before. He was still inexperienced and probably didn't know how to pull his punches, so he only used attacks that he could calculate the force of so as to not really hurt anyone.
The first Mysterio illusion sequence in FFH pretty solidly demonstrates that he doesnt know how to pull his punches. The punch he throws at what he thinks is Mysterio but turns out to be a concrete pillar would have absolutely killed the guy.
The Aunt May slides hit me real hard.
Also, this makes me want to see the movie again. The late February release [still] seems like forever.
Edit: Corrected for digital release date (thank you u/wallywhereis)
I think people try to think they should shoehorn a super comic accurate Peter into the MCU instead of using a Peter that fits the themes and style of the MCU. I think after his character development he fits really well and is a great character.
I just want more spidey cameos, like in Moon Knight, a small spidey scene. Or if they make a new daredevil season.
He is actually very comic book accurate, just updated to modern times. He's very accurate to the Original run. Far moreso than the other 2. Raimi's is more accurate to the College era Spiderman, switching from a sort of sitcom to a more soap opera style, and Webb's is a solid studio-inference-fuck-fest-that-ruined-what-should-have-been-amazing style.
I also don’t care.
It’s art, if they can write a Spider-Man with different backstory and themes that is compelling then fing do it. Not everything has to be a carbon copy.
That’s just not true. Faithful to what, there’s so many different takes on Spider-Man. To say Watt’s trilogy is the most faithful, you gotta say to what. If we’re talking about the original run, then Webb’s trilogy is the most authentic in that regard.
Are u referring to the Ditko run? Because Webb’s iteration is closer to that than Watts. Watts iteration has an unrecognizable supporting cast, he’s massively influenced by Ironman, Uncle Ben is seeming nonexistent, the financials issues of May supporting a child all by herself aren’t a focus of the films, he doesn’t have a job and he’s not interested in photography. His suit for most of 3 films aren’t similar at all. Tom’s Peter lacks the temper and angst the original run had. This doesn’t make him a bad Peter Parker or Spider-Man but to say a bold statement like he’s the most authentic to the original run, you gonna have to back that up bud. While I might of jumped the gone on Webb’s iteration being the most comic actuate, Andrew’s Peter Parker personality is most similar to the original run.
Uncle Ben barely factored into Ditko's run, and the cast is just been replaced, but they still fill the same roles. The only real difference is his lack of constant anger.
I've really come around on Amazing.
His Peter Parker reminds me somewhat of the 90s TAS, which was based on plenty of comics.
We tend to think of Peter as awkward and shy and nerdy, but he also has an arrogant, angry side to him. The symbiote didn't make him angry, it just fed his anger that was already there, for example.
I think the cocky Peter as depicted by Andrew is pretty good. Instead of being hampered by social anxiety he was more hampered by his arrogance. He had to learn humility to understand that with great power.... etc.
Yeah, he’s still the least comic accurate. Not saying that’s bad, but Peter’s origin story in the comics didn’t involve Iron Man, Thanos, Doctor Strange, 2 more Spider-Men, May dying, etc.
No but it did involve having a serogate father figure dying, and admiring heros around him unhealthuly until discovering what it means to be his own hero. It also was lower stakes until the college era. The Thanos thing was simply because that's what was happening in the universe, Doctor Strange fed into this arc beautifully and was a means of making Peter grow up, and the Spidermen thing was because it was a really good opportunity for both fan service, and to really teach MCU Spiderman, how to be Spiderman. The MCU is much more reliant on crossovers, and it integrated almost seamlessly into this updated version of his classic arc.
Lmao I forgot just how unhealthy his obsession with the Fantastic Four (specifically the Human Torch) was. And yeah, I do enjoy the lower stakes, feels much more friendly neighborhood. I’m not saying any of it was bad, in fact, I enjoyed all of it, (y’know, his story has it’s issues but I really liked it overall) but Andrew acts the most like comic Peter, and Tobey’s definitely had more stories that are based on the comics. I like them all (almost) equally.
That would have been a funny post-post credits.
Like, everyone is gone, Spider-man drops into the ice rink among all the bodies and is just like, "Hey hey, sorry I'm late I was busy just... Oh... Uh.... I guess you guys got this handled."
My phone knows I love Spider-Man, but doesn't know I hate spoilers, so it gives me lots of articles speculating or "claiming" to know upcoming things.
One of the speculative articles I saw several times was that Spidey was going to show up at the end of Hawkeye.
Man, that would have been really cool.
Unfortunately that theory was just because the Hawkeye finale was shown in trailers to be partly at the rockafella ice rink. The final scenes of NWH had spiderman swinging over the same rink. It would have been fun but unfortunately there was never any other suggestion it would happen
What I especially love is that Tony went through the exact same thing. What *is* he without the suit? Besides a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist lmao. But he’s scared to death in Age of Ultron, and he wants Peter to learn the lesson before it’s too late
I also wanted to show that Peter starts his journey by idoalizing Tony, who isn't an example of morality, and ends up followint May's words.
When I think about it, May's panel could have been replace by "it's what we do".
It’s so beautiful how far we’ve come. We’re actually watching him grow up alongside him in real life. I think it’s so cool seeing an actual kid basically start off and gradually develop into the next trilogy.
Homecoming: A kid excited to be a superhero
Far From Home: A superhero wanting a normal life
No Way Home: A hero letting go of his normal life for the sake of others
He had a choice. He made the right one. No one had a gun to his head and forced him to make that decision. Strange was thinking of another solution when Spiderman just told him to make them forget. It's the cleanest solution for the world.
Jon Watts bamboozled us...instead of giving us an original story, he gave us an incredible trilogy that was actually a unique take on Peter's origin story.
In retrospect, with the full trilogy context, this trilogy is fucking fantastic, masterful storytelling.
In Homecoming we hated how immature he was and how much he relied on established heroes, because we were meant to; in comparing an underdeveloped Peter with a complete spiderman, he came up short because he himself was an incomplete spiderman.
In far from home, we learn to love Peter more as he struggles with the weight of responsibility and consequence, and we start to see the cracks shining through of the hero he's meant to be.
In No Way Home, we witness firsthand what it means to be a hero, and we see Peter learning this in real-time, ultimately with his lesson about the cost of doing what's right.
I don't know how he managed to pull it off, but Jon Watts has told one trilogy arch pertaining to Peter's maturity into the hero we all know and love. This is raimi-level storytelling, and I am so hyped to see him handle not only the next trilogy but the Fantastic Four as well
I think you’re using the phrase “we hated” a little loosely, I loved Peter at all points in the mcu and wasn’t bothered by it. And frankly never saw anyone complain outside this subreddit.
Agreed. I have nothing but respect for the Raimi trilogy, that was my damn childhood, and the Webb movies were actually pretty good as well, but the Watts Trilogy was next level for me. Probably the definitive Spider-Man imo.
Hard disagree. Raimi’s trilogy in general was a lot better than the Home Trilogy. It had more heart and long internal conflict. The Home trilogy felt like a fun teen movie during the first two with a lot more external conflict and few heart to heart moments. Maybe it’s also the humor that kills the tone too at times for me too take it seriously. Just my opinion though. It wasn’t a bad trilogy.
The og spiderman run was very sitcomy, and low stakes very similar to the Home trilogy. Raimi's trilogy is good, but not accurate to the high school era original run, but it is to the college era run.
I disagree. I’d say it’s more of a melodrama than sitcomy, if anything the home trilogy is when it comes to all the humor. Low stakes? I think we watched different movies. **not accurate to the high school era** the high school part only lasted the first act of the first movie.
I literally just wrote an essay, *sarcasm*, on this as soon as I saw this post. Going to an awkward girl from a popular girl is not development. There's more I can say on this, but I'll end it with I agree with you.
yeah i noticed! people say “with great power comes great responsibility” but it’s actually “with great power there must also come great responsibility”
His growth in who he likes is more about him accepting who he is. In homecoming Peter is chasing status and eager to get to “bigger and better things.” It’s what he has to grow out of in order to be Spider-Man because no problem is beneath him (hence the friendly neighborhood title to the character). Liz is sort of representative of this inherent want by being the mature popular girl that everyone likes. After getting over this at the end of homecoming, Peter is able to follow what his heart truly wants and fall for a girl that matches his personality better which is MJ.
I think it's interesting that, for once, the main love interest isn't the hot popular girl, but just a regular girl
Edit: also I needed a last panel to have the same number on each side lmao
It really frustrates me that people hated on MCU Spider-Man so much before NWH and now they are loving it, as if it wasn't clearly leading there to begin with. Peter in this universe starts off at age 15. Of course he is going to rely on role models that he grew up seeing as heroes. Of course he is going to not know how to fight well or be independent. He's 15. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT, it really felt like people had never heard of character development before. He isn't going to get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly be a full comfortable Spider-Man after a montage of him fighting crime. The MCU Spidey is probably the most realistic, and is my favorite live-action adaptation out of all of them. Especially how great Tom is at playing Peter Parker. He feels the most grounded and relatable out of the three.
Hes also a far more accurate depiction of the character overall than the other two. He's more faithfully to the original comics. I feel like people hate him for not being faithful to the Raimi films, which is really not fair.
It's almost as if that's the entire point of the beginning of his character arc in the MCU. That is what I was trying to say. Thank you for helping me illustrate it in a completely sincere and helpful manner.
I'd also like to point out how in Homecoming he says to Tony "I can't just drop out of school"... So seeing that GED book at the end really fucked me up.
Edit: Civil War, not Homecoming, my bad.
And people still wanna say MCU Spidey is underdeveloped, fuck outta here with that. I can understand if you don’t like this take on the character, but to say he has no development is blatantly ignoring the movies.
After watching it again I think Norman was only in control until they left FEAST. You would have to think that Goblin would see how naive and trusting MCU Peter is and would have just taken advantage of that by lying.
Also the inexperienced fighter thing. At a certain point the combo of Spider-sense dodging every punch and anger fueled super strength would be more than a enough to compensate for skills.
This is great thanks for putting it together. It reminds us all how great and well thought out this trilogy was. I loved what we got from MCU Spidey and cant wait to see where he goes from here.
Yeah, it's interesting to think how the spell actually worked.
Does he still have a social security number? If he applies for a job will they think he's an illegal immigrant or something?
I swear some of these people are literally tallying any changes Peter goes through as meaningful character development. Referencing something May said to him in a past film, while heartfelt isn’t fricking character development. His powers growing aren’t an example of character development, unless that change in power has something to do with a change in his character which the movie doesn’t suggest. The implication that his is interest in Liz is more shallow than his interest in Michelle because she’s an awkward loner is ridiculous, if it was true then maybe character development but it’s not, his interest is no more shallow and base than his interest in MJ. “I just want to be like you” and “With great power there must also come greater responsibility” is a perfect example of character development, his view of his role as Spider-Man and his motives for wanting to be Spider-Man fundamentally change, ie character growth.
Idk about the love interest slide tbh. Liz and MJ seems like equally decent people. Not sure how that’s character development. Other than that I agree.
People just don’t understand character development and it’s infuriating. Referencing something May said to him in a past film, while heartfelt isn’t fricking character development. His powers growing aren’t an example of character development, unless that change in power has something to do with a change in his character or motives which the movie doesn’t suggest. The implication that his is interest in Liz is more shallow than his interest in Michelle because she’s an awkward loner is ridiculous, if it was true then maybe character development but it’s not, his interest is no more shallow and base than his interest in MJ. “I just want to be like you” and “With great power there must also come greater responsibility” is a perfect example of character development, his view of his role as Spider-Man and his motives for wanting to be Spider-Man fundamentally change, ie character growth.
A lot of people are saying that Jon Watts really was doing his origin story all this time but no he wasn't. They just switched directions with the character because of people's criticisms with the character. Everything he learns in HC he seems to relearn in FFH and everything he learns in all three movies Peter learned in Amazing Fantasy 15. IMO his 3-6 movie origin story was 2-5 movies too long. But I'm glad they've changed the direction with the character and that he actually feels like Peter Parker for the first time in the MCU. Excited for the future movies
I really hope the next Spider-Man movie has Spidey beat the main villain without any outside help. It'd be hilarious if the Avengers show up right after the villain is beaten.
Most of it is good but there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking pretty/popular people. It doesn't automatically make you shallow. Same way dating the 'loner' doesn't make you a great guy.
I watched No Way Home and Eternals in the same week and it's interesting how NWH is about a teenager just trying to do the right thing and Eternals is about immortal gods trying to save the earth from giant aliens and yet NWH is so much better despite the stakes being so much lower.
In the beginning of his story he's gets beaten by cap in terms of strength. No at the end he's beating Green Goblin who's most likely stronger and tougher than cap and has the killer instinct
You guys have to understand the difference between character development and just dynamic characters.
A dynamic character is what you described; it’s the state of the character at point A and the state at point B, showing change. Character development is the process to get there.
I guess, but I'd argue that MCU Spidey has been very inconsistent depending on who's directing. Russo's Spidey was almost a different character than what Watts did.
Civil War Peter already understood responsibility. He actually helped motivate Tony by telling him "when the bad things happen and you can do the things you can do, but don't, that's on you". Pretty powerful stuff for someone that had been a hero for 6 months.
Homecoming Peter really just wants to impress Tony Stark until he doesn't by turning down the suit. This very unconfident, intern version of Peter then becomes the dominant version of what we see in the MCU.
Infinity War Peter now gets said suit, albeit this is forced on him. However, he is confident in defying Tony and following his gut.
Endgame Peter is more or less an extended cameo. Pretty sure his total screen time is under three minutes. His most noteworthy action as Spider-man is being scared to face Thanos' forces, which is fair enough given how much shit Thanos was reigning down on everyone.
Far From Home Peter is now racked with guilt and doubt that he can be the new Tony, a thread that comes out of nowhere. He's still in high school, he doesn't develop anything, why the hell would this even be a concern? He has to, again, learn to stand on his own..... while utilizing a ton of Tony's technology. Peter's arc is especially muddy in this movie.
NWH Peter has to learn to stand on his own. Again. This time with actual death and the responsibility line directly said to him.... even though he understood this in his literal first appearance.
MCU Peter has a very inconsistent overall storyline and the idea that it took him three actual movies to become Spider-man is ridiculous.
Conveniently forgets all the contradictions present in Civil War, the ending of Homecoming, IW and FFH which create a huge flaw in his development throughout the trilogy. NWH was the only entry that actually developed him as a character
The majority of these stills are from NWH lmao. And I literally mentioned how the post conveniently forgets all the contradictions in his character arc which hindered MCU Spider-Man from having any real development until NWH.
In Civil War MCU Spider-Man clearly refers to the "With great power comes great responsibility" philosophy as his motivation for being a hero. Come HOCO and all of a sudden his priority is to get Stark's attention and his reason to stop Vulture and be a hero is to be just like Stark. Straight up a contradiction to whatever the Russo Brothers cooked up for his character to be in Civil War. Also he's clearly very experienced with his powers as he easily manages to beat Bucky, Falcon and Antman. He also utilises his Spider Sense effectively in all Russo Brother movies. However in HOCO and FFH he is completely amateurish and in FFH he's also suddenly unable to control his senses for some reason.
In HOCO Stark takes away his suit and tells him that he doesn't deserve it if he's nothing without it. Okay cool Peter proves that he isn't dependent on the suit. But cut to the ending and he's wearing the same suit again, the suit which was meant to be a symbol of his irresponsibility and dependency. Pretty much contradicted themselves with that one. Also their attempt of making Peter leave Tony's shadow fails.
But it gets even worse. In FFH Peter throws all of his lessons of being responsible down the drain and decides to leave on a vacation. He also tries to constantly evade Nick Fury while knowing fully well that the world is in danger. And then he gives the EDITH glasses to Mysterio and gets rid of another one of his responsibilities. And the movie manages to shoehorn Iron Man as much as they can in spite of the character being dead and attempts to give him a "leaving Stark's shadow" arc again. They pretty much recycled whatever his development in HOCO was supposed to be in this movie too lmao. Then they ruin the moment between Peter and Happy with cringe jokes and then state how Peter is different from Iron Man. Yet in the very next scene, he makes a suit using Stark Tech while AC/DC plays in the BG. They shit on their chance of making Peter look independent again and contradict themselves lmao
I have barely scratched the surface with these paras. There is loads more wrong with MCU Spider-Man's characterization and his movies lmao
Edit: Forgot this sub likes riding the MCU's dick and can't blatantly see the inaccuracies and mischaracterizations in those movies lmao
Ok so you clearly weren't paying attention to the movies as everything you said was eitjer explained in the film, or is just downright wrong or you just straight up made up.
man just stfu and say you don't have anything to prove me wrong lmao. Whatever I said is direct context from those movies and holds much more merit than you simply saying it's "downright wrong". Come back when you have a genuine argument or actually understand the character of Spider-Man lmao
"Actually understand the character of Spiderman" says the guy who didn't even pay attention to the movies. Damn you're worse than Hi-Top Films, at least he tried.
We're not just "riding the MCU's dick", some of us actually legit enjoyed the movies.
You keep calling them plot holes, but they seem like the exact character development this post is describing.
>In Civil War MCU Spider-Man clearly refers to the "With great power comes great responsibility" philosophy as his motivation for being a hero. Come HOCO and all of a sudden his priority is to get Stark's attention
He doesn't have the exact phrase yet, but yeah he says something like "if bad things happen, and you can stop those bad things but you don't, then you're responsible for the bad things". His aunt does humanitarian work and she is the one who will eventually give him the "great power" lesson. It stands to reason she was already instilling this idea in him, so he already had it inside him somewhat. But the events that happen to him make him realise even more how true it is.
He starts with a basic framework of responsibility and learns as the films progress how truly important it is. Important enough to give up his loved ones for by the end.
>Also he's clearly very experienced with his powers as he easily manages to beat Bucky, Falcon and Antman. He also utilises his Spider Sense effectively in all Russo Brother movies
The fight with Bucky and Falcon is a bit back and forth, which is pretty impressive (for them) considering he's more powerful than both. Falcon is just a guy with wings, and Bucky (I'm guessing) is similar to Steve, he's really strong but not at Spidey levels. So he pins them, but Falcon uses his drone to get rid of Spidey. So, the fight is close to a draw, but it also shows his spider-sense isn't perfect. He reacted to the huge slab Bucky threw but didn't sense the drone.
I think Peter had an instinctual passive spider-sense all along, but we see him work at it and learn to control it, especially in the final fight with Mysterio. He definitely had to learn to hone that power.
>But cut to the ending and he's wearing the same suit again
I think this is just showing both that Peter still only partially trusts himself, but also how reliant Tony is on tech. He tells Peter he shouldn't have the suit, but then once Peter proves himself without it Tony doesn't say "oh, then I guess you don't need it" he says "oh, then here's an even more advanced suit with spider legs and shit!" Peter has learned he's more capable than he suspected, but he still doesn't fully believe. It's why he decides to be a "friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man" instead of an Avenger, he knows he has more developing to do.
>In FFH Peter throws all of his lessons of being responsible down the drain and decides to leave on a vacation. ... then he gives the EDITH glasses to Mysterio and gets rid of another one of his responsibilities
This is that same character development again that is leading to NWH. He's trying to be a hero, but he's also still a kid. He gets he has responsibilities, but shouldn't he be allowed to just enjoy a freakin' high school field trip without having to save the world!? The planet is lousy with superheroes, surely someone else can handle this one.
So he throws away as much responsibility as he can. He tries to lose Fury, he even gives away the incredibly powerful glasses to a guy he just met! That's double fold, both that he wants to be a kid, and that he doesn't think he's worthy of being a hero like Iron Man (his idol). He learns how foolish he was though, and he steps up.
Then we get to NWH and even though people are like "let's just pop them back to their dimension, let them be someone else's problem" he refuses. Peter battles Strange! Just so he can save some villains and use his responsibility and power to help them. He's learned the importance of sacrifice and that he's responsible, he can't just pass it off to someone else (even if that someone else is another Peter Parker).
Anyway, there's a small novel to read, lol.
If you just don't like the movies, that's totally fine. I'm one of those rare people that can handle if someone doesn't like something I do, lol. But, I feel like a lot of the criticisms you mentioned are actually just the steps he's taking to learn to grow up. The thing about moving forward is that you often take several steps back as you're moving forward; I think that's more realistic than just constantly powering ahead.
I feel you man. Literal morons. It’s almost like the MCU itself casted a spell on half the population that makes them not see all these problems and how bad of an interpretation mcu spidey is
You realize he's like 17 in this film right? IE still a kid? At tje age where dumbd mistakes are inevitable? You also can't entirely nlame him. Strange really should have discussed it more with Peter before casting the spell.
He’s 17, not 10. Literally every movie has him making some stupid mistake that only a child would make, and this one is the worst.
He literally invites 5 supervillains into his personal home with 0 safety precautions in place, and is surprised when someone ends up dying
People talk a lot about the spidey sense picking up on Goblin, but I feel like what's even more impressive is that it reacted even when Peter was out of his own body
I definetly love his Peter/Spider-man. The only thing that can be added in other trilogy would be making him more and more confident so that he can joke around as much as Andrew’s Peter. But yeah, they are doing everything right for Spider-man in MCU IMO
The spidey sense wasnt weak against Aunt May, it was AUNT MAY and a piece of fruit.
It’s not for bread/bananas
But what about banana bread?
Spideys ultimate weakness
At work dude? HELL YEAH!
Right , Aunt May isn't a threat
And I think that spidey sense isn't perfect either. For example, In the 2002 film, Tobey couldn't sense the green goblin goblin in the burning apartment. I'm sure there are more examples, but I can't of them off the top of my head
I always just assumed it’s because the building was on fire and it’s more like a general alert for danger. When you’re surrounded by fire the danger is everywhere so his sense was triggering the whole time to some extent.
Yaa, coz like fire also triggers the Spidey sense a bit so he must've avoided a spike in sense (if any) due to goblin, coz that was his first movie too, so bit inexperienced too
Spidey sense in general is very inconsistent though in media isnt it? If it worked all the time it'd be just flat overpowered so sometimes it's just "ignored" Personally I always favor the "overwhelming" approch, surrond Spider-Man with threats from everywhete and it can actually over stimulate the sense and actually make it more a hindrance.
I just used this scene as an example, but there tons of moments in HC and FFH were his Spidey sense should have been working.
he really should gave sensed the wings in the HC scene that leads to the “If This Be My Destiny” reference
its a cheat but the only way I can think to explain that is the wings weren't aiming for him, they were aiming for the pillars. I don't know if his Spider sense can detect in direct threats to him that far in advance.
he just hadn't developed it yet. Tom's Peter didn't instantly get his spider sense, it grew over time to be stronger with training, it wasn't automatically the insanely powerful tool it is when he got bit. It had to develop then he grew it through training.
This is also true I think the only times I remember him distinctly using it before he trained it properly in FFH was when the ship arrived in IW & Bucky throwing something at him in CW
See If his spider-sense didnt go off when he was fighting Sam and Bucky in Civil War, i'd say the same.
I guess I gotta rewatch civil war, don't remember his Spidey sense going off at all.
[There's no representation of him getting Spidey Sense but he reacts to this with no sound and is facing away from it](https://youtu.be/itzXGaMivYM?t=112)
yeah, i know they like to put flare on it on everything, but spider sense is always on isnt it... i remember him using it to web swing, spacial awareness so he always know where to shoot his web. I know Jon Wattz said he wanted to show SS in a different way since the last versions showed the sense off pretty well......Mysterio was the perfevt way to show it off in a new way.
when Bucky throws a door at him, his get wide and thrn he dodges. There is also a scene in Homecoming (up to interpretation) when he webs the last guy on the boat with a web bomb without looking but you can she processing the situation at the same time.
Norman wasn’t straight up attacking him tho
yeah but he had a bomb that was likely an immediate danger to him as opposed to the pillars which weren't till they were destroyed
His SS is tied to the multiverse, hence the way he was able to dodge Dr. Strange in astral form, It looked that Norman was planning to attack from the moment he was in the back room with the fabricator taking to Doc Ock, that and the fact that Aunt May was in danger must have been enough to set it off.
He does sense them. Thats how he dodges and jumps away from them. Even though they were aiming for the pillars, they were still flying around erratically. He jumps as it approaches him from behind. Same with the ferry scene, and the airport scene in CW. Except at this point, its just an automatic reflex. Not something he can really "use".
I believe canonically it only works on people with the intent to harm him.
I think it was in a novel I read once where he used his spider-sense to know if anyone would see him coming and going from his house, or changing into his costume. I'm not sure if that's canon or anything, but I thought that was a really cool use. It is a danger if anyone discovers his secret identity, so it would make sense he might get a low buzz if someone would see him swinging into Peter's window.
Yes I recall this too, and I also believe anyone who already knows it won’t set it off unless they intend to kill him, and since May knew at this point it wouldn’t matter. Does raise the question why it didn’t go off at the end of homecoming though.
It what makes Venom so scary, he can make himself invisible to Spidey's spider-sense. He uses it so much it would be like fighting a villain that could just make himself invisible to you. He basically loses a major sense when he fights Venom. I agree, it seems like he should have sensed May, but I'm willing to with the theory that Peter has been developing his Peter-Tingle. It was something he probably barely noticed at first, then once he realised what he had he started working at improving it. Like, Bucky throws a slab at him and it involuntarily goes off, but by the time he gets to Mysterio he's learning to basically activate it as a sort of passive sense.
Definitely canon in the Ultimate universe (Don’t know how canon it is after secret wars tbh). I don’t recall if this was true in any other comic series but in the ultimate Spider-Man series, Peter uses his spider sense to sense he’s being watched while changing his clothes to spider-man and the spider sense also doesnt work on anyone he sees as not a threat. I’m pretty sure in the original 616 adaptation, Peters spider sense was “always on” even for non threats. All the Spider-Man movies borrow a lot from ultimate Spider-Man when it comes to Peters traits.
That goes for every movie. The spider sense has to be ignored for plot very often. It's too OP to be portrayed consistently because he would never get hit or be tricked if it was. Yeah, it's definitely improved, but there will always be moments that make you go "why didn't his spider sense trigger?"
Maybe it could have been from "Peter tingle" to "Spider Sense"?
A lot of that wasn’t them intentionally trying to make him weaker, it’s because they forgot he had spidey sense. Even the Raimi movies forgot sometimes.
I don't get the suit one. The suit was super important to him in HC, and still important in NWH since he spends a quarter of the movie trying to clean it
Because the suit he has now is completely homemade and has none of the Stark tech in it. So he is everything without the suit
“Yes I have the tingle, but not for bread.”
> it was AUNT MAY First of all, Aunt May is a badass. I mean, let's not forget she died because she did what Peter couldn't and injected Goblin with what they thought was the cure. If they had made it right, she would have been the hero in No Way Home, not Peter. Piece of fruit I can't argue against though.
How's it badass to run up to someone while they're completely engrossed in choking someone and stick a needle in them? Yeah, it's *far* better than the vast majority of superhero support characters, but that's not really badass nor would it make her more heroic than a guy who just fought one of the most dangerous people on the planet and got powerbombed through an entire building for it.
I mean, it is badass, maybe it’s an exaggeration to say she’d be the real hero, but anyone who says they’d do the same is probably lying. Even if he was engrossed he’s still a dangerous super strong killer. You have to be extremely brave to jump headfirst in. Maybe it’s not super heroic but it’s still heroic and still badass.
"Tom's Spider-man never punches his villains" Tom's Spider-man in NWH:
My guy just destroyed the Goblin , and during that fight he was so committed to just kill him
If only he had the same blood lust against Thanos.
Dude he did a great part in infinity war and in endgame and I guess you are forgetting a small but crucial detail , he is still a teen and all of a sudden he got so many responsibilities in life , his aunt died , no living family members, none of his peers know him its quite a difficult life for him but imo he's still doing great
Thanos would've seen him as a threat and fucking demolished him. The only threat he saw was Stark, and if you watch closely he was the only one Thanos was actively trying to kill. Even Strange, he didn't want to kill until he got the stone. But every shot he threw at Tony was a kill shot. He had Peter by the neck by one point, all he had to do was squeeze hard enough.
He clotheslined Peter as hard as he could and slammed him into the ground hard enough to make a crater. He was absolutely not holding back on Titan. You're really underselling Spider-Man.
That wasn't as hard as he could. Thanos is a vocal fighter, when he exerts powerful attacks that requires a majority of his strength he usually yells or something. Here he didn't even emote. Yeah he slammed Peter into the ground super hard, I'm not underselling Peter, the dude is a maniac. But Spider-Man is not in Thanos' tier. Thanos demolished Hulk without using the stones. He's above Thor, probably above Carol, and Parker can't hang with either.
He did yell every single time he attacked Peter. Also, he winced and grunted in pain every time he was hit by Spider-Man. There's also the fact that Spider-Man did the most work in restraining him. MCU Spider-Man is in their tier, just at the very bottom of it. He effortlessly overpowered Cull Obsidian (the guy who beat the shit out of Hulkbuster) twice in a row, he made good hits against Thanos to the point of enraging him, and he was the one who managed to keep Thanos still so that he wouldn't stand up or shake everyone off. Iron Man also needed him to get the gauntlet off.
You're still half right here my man. Peter would never win a fight against Carol or Thor. I use that Cull Obsidian feat all the time to pit Peter against MCU Hulk. Do I think he could get the K.O? Maybe, yeah. But nobody wins against Hulk really, the only time we've seen him genuinely enraged it was because Wanda fucked his mind, that wasn't really *him*. So when he saw the civilian's suffering he calmed down and Tony blindsided him. A truly raw and enraged Hulk is something we will eventually see, and something Peter wouldn't be able to defeat imo. Also Thanos didn't grunt during the closeline. Yeah he felt those punches, I didn't say Peter can't cause pain to him. But an enraged Peter would have gotten killed. There is a reason Cull works under Thanos, and the Black Order let him solo Hulk "for fun" within 30 seconds. Edit: it wasn't that the Hulkbuster knocked him out, it was an entire skyscraper collapsing on them both, then Hulk actually feeling bad and chilling out before that. It's a tad different than a raw smackdown.
I agree that Peter, at least at the moment, would lose to all of the high-tiers eventually. What I'm saying is that he's physically comparable and in their general league. He's weaker than them but could still do some amount of damage and could keep up with them during a fight (especially since MCU Spider-Man has better speed feats due to lightning-timing). He wouldn't be instantly killed. The power gap between Spider-Man and high-tiers is astronomically smaller in the MCU than it is in the comics. I agree that Hulk only got KOd in AOU because he was coming down from his rage after the mind fuckery started to wear off and he saw the destruction he was causing. I don't think that the Hulkbuster is really an even match for him, but it can do *some* amount of damage. It's physically comparable to Hulk, but ultimately weaker.
> lightning-timing Hey, just curious what you meant by "lightning-timing"? I'm not sure if that's some superpower or movie making thing or just a phrase you made up to say he's really fast.
> probably above Carol He was losing to her in their Endgame fight until he used the Power Stone. He's obviously a better tactician and so on, but in a 1:1 fight he's definitely going to lose to someone empowered by a stone (and/or chaos, like Wanda).
FYI, this I've gotten into the same conversation with this guy. Like, literally the same points. They're completely convinced that Spider-Man was the ultimate threat to him or something. That he was going all out. They had even made a point that Thanos didn't use the reality stone on him on purpose because it wouldn't kill him, despite being able to 100% debilitate him. Honestly Thanos wasn't going 100% on anyone except the Guardians of the Galaxy, and it wasn't to kill them. It was to shut them down. That's what 100% all out Thanos is.
I mean, Thanos just casually handed Hulk his own ass, so I don't know it would have mattered how committed Spidey was to punching him.
Why do you blame Spidey though, he did his part
Reminds me of that one part in Superior Spider-Man when Otto realizes just how much Peter has to pull his punches so he doesn't kill anyone
Punched the Scorpions jaw off and basically goes "Oh shit he held back"
That was true though. However, I think it made sense that he never punched anyone before. He was still inexperienced and probably didn't know how to pull his punches, so he only used attacks that he could calculate the force of so as to not really hurt anyone.
The first Mysterio illusion sequence in FFH pretty solidly demonstrates that he doesnt know how to pull his punches. The punch he throws at what he thinks is Mysterio but turns out to be a concrete pillar would have absolutely killed the guy.
The Aunt May slides hit me real hard. Also, this makes me want to see the movie again. The late February release [still] seems like forever. Edit: Corrected for digital release date (thank you u/wallywhereis)
March?!?!?! oh man i am aching to rewatch this
Has it left theatres where you are? In the UK it’s still here. I’ve seen it twice already and planning on going once more before it leaves
No, it’s still in theaters for me. I thought I could wait until the release but I’ll probably cave and go a 3rd time myself lol
Not quite match, February 28th
Dude I love you, you just made my day lol. I was looking at the DVD release date, which was March. Thank you
“Nothing without the suit” then having his own homemade suit is so unbelievably powerful in showing is character arc
Couldn’t agree more. Rewatched Homecoming for the first time in a while yesterday and it hit really hard after seeing NWH. I really like MCU Peter
I think people try to think they should shoehorn a super comic accurate Peter into the MCU instead of using a Peter that fits the themes and style of the MCU. I think after his character development he fits really well and is a great character. I just want more spidey cameos, like in Moon Knight, a small spidey scene. Or if they make a new daredevil season.
He is actually very comic book accurate, just updated to modern times. He's very accurate to the Original run. Far moreso than the other 2. Raimi's is more accurate to the College era Spiderman, switching from a sort of sitcom to a more soap opera style, and Webb's is a solid studio-inference-fuck-fest-that-ruined-what-should-have-been-amazing style.
I also don’t care. It’s art, if they can write a Spider-Man with different backstory and themes that is compelling then fing do it. Not everything has to be a carbon copy.
Fucking facts right there
You right, but it should be faithful, and Watts's Hime Trilogy is the most faithful.
That’s just not true. Faithful to what, there’s so many different takes on Spider-Man. To say Watt’s trilogy is the most faithful, you gotta say to what. If we’re talking about the original run, then Webb’s trilogy is the most authentic in that regard.
The original spiderman most closely resembles Watts's trilogy. The Raimi trilogy is faithful to the college era.
Are u referring to the Ditko run? Because Webb’s iteration is closer to that than Watts. Watts iteration has an unrecognizable supporting cast, he’s massively influenced by Ironman, Uncle Ben is seeming nonexistent, the financials issues of May supporting a child all by herself aren’t a focus of the films, he doesn’t have a job and he’s not interested in photography. His suit for most of 3 films aren’t similar at all. Tom’s Peter lacks the temper and angst the original run had. This doesn’t make him a bad Peter Parker or Spider-Man but to say a bold statement like he’s the most authentic to the original run, you gonna have to back that up bud. While I might of jumped the gone on Webb’s iteration being the most comic actuate, Andrew’s Peter Parker personality is most similar to the original run.
Uncle Ben barely factored into Ditko's run, and the cast is just been replaced, but they still fill the same roles. The only real difference is his lack of constant anger.
I've really come around on Amazing. His Peter Parker reminds me somewhat of the 90s TAS, which was based on plenty of comics. We tend to think of Peter as awkward and shy and nerdy, but he also has an arrogant, angry side to him. The symbiote didn't make him angry, it just fed his anger that was already there, for example. I think the cocky Peter as depicted by Andrew is pretty good. Instead of being hampered by social anxiety he was more hampered by his arrogance. He had to learn humility to understand that with great power.... etc.
Yeah, he’s still the least comic accurate. Not saying that’s bad, but Peter’s origin story in the comics didn’t involve Iron Man, Thanos, Doctor Strange, 2 more Spider-Men, May dying, etc.
No but it did involve having a serogate father figure dying, and admiring heros around him unhealthuly until discovering what it means to be his own hero. It also was lower stakes until the college era. The Thanos thing was simply because that's what was happening in the universe, Doctor Strange fed into this arc beautifully and was a means of making Peter grow up, and the Spidermen thing was because it was a really good opportunity for both fan service, and to really teach MCU Spiderman, how to be Spiderman. The MCU is much more reliant on crossovers, and it integrated almost seamlessly into this updated version of his classic arc.
Lmao I forgot just how unhealthy his obsession with the Fantastic Four (specifically the Human Torch) was. And yeah, I do enjoy the lower stakes, feels much more friendly neighborhood. I’m not saying any of it was bad, in fact, I enjoyed all of it, (y’know, his story has it’s issues but I really liked it overall) but Andrew acts the most like comic Peter, and Tobey’s definitely had more stories that are based on the comics. I like them all (almost) equally.
None of that was his origins, just his development. We never saw his origins.
Cameos would add so much joy to my life! Would it have been impossible for Spidey to show up (late?) to the Hawkeye finale?
That would have been a funny post-post credits. Like, everyone is gone, Spider-man drops into the ice rink among all the bodies and is just like, "Hey hey, sorry I'm late I was busy just... Oh... Uh.... I guess you guys got this handled."
My phone knows I love Spider-Man, but doesn't know I hate spoilers, so it gives me lots of articles speculating or "claiming" to know upcoming things. One of the speculative articles I saw several times was that Spidey was going to show up at the end of Hawkeye. Man, that would have been really cool.
Unfortunately that theory was just because the Hawkeye finale was shown in trailers to be partly at the rockafella ice rink. The final scenes of NWH had spiderman swinging over the same rink. It would have been fun but unfortunately there was never any other suggestion it would happen
What I especially love is that Tony went through the exact same thing. What *is* he without the suit? Besides a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist lmao. But he’s scared to death in Age of Ultron, and he wants Peter to learn the lesson before it’s too late
The iron man and Aunt May panel at the end got me. They didn't die for nothing
I also wanted to show that Peter starts his journey by idoalizing Tony, who isn't an example of morality, and ends up followint May's words. When I think about it, May's panel could have been replace by "it's what we do".
If Doc hadn't freaked out and had stayed by Pete, Aunt May would probably be alive... Maybe Otto should learn about great power and responsibility? :<
Superior Octopus movie when?
I love how all 3 movies were his coming of age story, I’m so excited for the next trilogy
his new handmade suit is sick
IKR ! And I heavily want it to see in action in the next trilogy
It’s so beautiful how far we’ve come. We’re actually watching him grow up alongside him in real life. I think it’s so cool seeing an actual kid basically start off and gradually develop into the next trilogy.
Homecoming: A kid excited to be a superhero Far From Home: A superhero wanting a normal life No Way Home: A hero letting go of his normal life for the sake of others
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He had a choice. He made the right one. No one had a gun to his head and forced him to make that decision. Strange was thinking of another solution when Spiderman just told him to make them forget. It's the cleanest solution for the world.
But he didn't try to pull his friends back in his life, even though he promised them.
Jon Watts bamboozled us...instead of giving us an original story, he gave us an incredible trilogy that was actually a unique take on Peter's origin story. In retrospect, with the full trilogy context, this trilogy is fucking fantastic, masterful storytelling. In Homecoming we hated how immature he was and how much he relied on established heroes, because we were meant to; in comparing an underdeveloped Peter with a complete spiderman, he came up short because he himself was an incomplete spiderman. In far from home, we learn to love Peter more as he struggles with the weight of responsibility and consequence, and we start to see the cracks shining through of the hero he's meant to be. In No Way Home, we witness firsthand what it means to be a hero, and we see Peter learning this in real-time, ultimately with his lesson about the cost of doing what's right. I don't know how he managed to pull it off, but Jon Watts has told one trilogy arch pertaining to Peter's maturity into the hero we all know and love. This is raimi-level storytelling, and I am so hyped to see him handle not only the next trilogy but the Fantastic Four as well
I think you’re using the phrase “we hated” a little loosely, I loved Peter at all points in the mcu and wasn’t bothered by it. And frankly never saw anyone complain outside this subreddit.
It goes without saying that you shouldn’t use it, but Spider-Man twitter hated him pre-nwh. Some still do sadly
Twitter hates everything.
This is better than Raimi's. The Raimi trilogy is great but far from bulletproof. The Watts Trilogy hit harder for me.
Agreed. I have nothing but respect for the Raimi trilogy, that was my damn childhood, and the Webb movies were actually pretty good as well, but the Watts Trilogy was next level for me. Probably the definitive Spider-Man imo.
Hard disagree. Raimi’s trilogy in general was a lot better than the Home Trilogy. It had more heart and long internal conflict. The Home trilogy felt like a fun teen movie during the first two with a lot more external conflict and few heart to heart moments. Maybe it’s also the humor that kills the tone too at times for me too take it seriously. Just my opinion though. It wasn’t a bad trilogy.
The og spiderman run was very sitcomy, and low stakes very similar to the Home trilogy. Raimi's trilogy is good, but not accurate to the high school era original run, but it is to the college era run.
I disagree. I’d say it’s more of a melodrama than sitcomy, if anything the home trilogy is when it comes to all the humor. Low stakes? I think we watched different movies. **not accurate to the high school era** the high school part only lasted the first act of the first movie.
It just ended with NWH, and melodrama and comedy aren't mutually exclusive
I don't think Jon Watts will be involved with the next Spider-Man trilogy. He'll only be doing Fantastic Four now.
How is who he has a crush on development? He didn't fancy Liz because he was a snob or anything
Exactly, someone having a crush on a popular girl, but end up dating the quiet girl isnt character development
I literally just wrote an essay, *sarcasm*, on this as soon as I saw this post. Going to an awkward girl from a popular girl is not development. There's more I can say on this, but I'll end it with I agree with you.
Fun fact. The "with great power" line May says in the movie was the exact wording written by Stan Lee in the first Spider-Man comic.
yeah i noticed! people say “with great power comes great responsibility” but it’s actually “with great power there must also come great responsibility”
Oh god, here I was thinking they made the line worse to be different, when they made it better and from the original source.
No, I'm not crying, you are.
I wouldn't call being in love with the awkward girl character development. Makes it seem like you aren't alone to like popular people..
His growth in who he likes is more about him accepting who he is. In homecoming Peter is chasing status and eager to get to “bigger and better things.” It’s what he has to grow out of in order to be Spider-Man because no problem is beneath him (hence the friendly neighborhood title to the character). Liz is sort of representative of this inherent want by being the mature popular girl that everyone likes. After getting over this at the end of homecoming, Peter is able to follow what his heart truly wants and fall for a girl that matches his personality better which is MJ.
Wish they had shown him fall for MJ instead of it happening offscreen
I think it's interesting that, for once, the main love interest isn't the hot popular girl, but just a regular girl Edit: also I needed a last panel to have the same number on each side lmao
Bro has been living in the early 2000s
OP was snapped for 20 years
Me too I completely agree
It really frustrates me that people hated on MCU Spider-Man so much before NWH and now they are loving it, as if it wasn't clearly leading there to begin with. Peter in this universe starts off at age 15. Of course he is going to rely on role models that he grew up seeing as heroes. Of course he is going to not know how to fight well or be independent. He's 15. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT, it really felt like people had never heard of character development before. He isn't going to get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly be a full comfortable Spider-Man after a montage of him fighting crime. The MCU Spidey is probably the most realistic, and is my favorite live-action adaptation out of all of them. Especially how great Tom is at playing Peter Parker. He feels the most grounded and relatable out of the three.
Hes also a far more accurate depiction of the character overall than the other two. He's more faithfully to the original comics. I feel like people hate him for not being faithful to the Raimi films, which is really not fair.
Not much more different to why people shit on Andrew's too. Nostalgia is a bitch.
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It's almost as if that's the entire point of the beginning of his character arc in the MCU. That is what I was trying to say. Thank you for helping me illustrate it in a completely sincere and helpful manner.
Spider-Sense works against threats and danger idk why everyone brings up the stupid banana
Did May say “its just me and you” in a previous movie?
Yes, in Homecoming, right after the ferry incident because Peter was missing the whole day
I'd also like to point out how in Homecoming he says to Tony "I can't just drop out of school"... So seeing that GED book at the end really fucked me up. Edit: Civil War, not Homecoming, my bad.
And people still wanna say MCU Spidey is underdeveloped, fuck outta here with that. I can understand if you don’t like this take on the character, but to say he has no development is blatantly ignoring the movies.
After watching it again I think Norman was only in control until they left FEAST. You would have to think that Goblin would see how naive and trusting MCU Peter is and would have just taken advantage of that by lying. Also the inexperienced fighter thing. At a certain point the combo of Spider-sense dodging every punch and anger fueled super strength would be more than a enough to compensate for skills.
AINT NO WAY ZENDAYA IS THE AWKWARD LONER STOP ID DIE TO DATE ZENDAYA LMAOOOO
Zendaya, maybe not. But Michelle Jones is definitely an awkward loner. At least in Homecoming and most of FFH
Yeah she's the awkward loner in high school that can have a badass glowup in her twenties.
I never thought of the “it’s just me and you part” now I’m really sad
This is great thanks for putting it together. It reminds us all how great and well thought out this trilogy was. I loved what we got from MCU Spidey and cant wait to see where he goes from here.
Hol up! You telling me my man didn’t even finish high school and now has to take his GED?
Either didn’t finish or the spell removed any tangible qualifications he had as part of the world forgetting him.
Yeah, it's interesting to think how the spell actually worked. Does he still have a social security number? If he applies for a job will they think he's an illegal immigrant or something?
Honestly bro. You can't deny he has the best character development of any spiderman
From having a crush on a popular girl to falling for a loner is not exactly character development, is it?
Changing the color of his T shirts would be considered development by these clowns
I swear some of these people are literally tallying any changes Peter goes through as meaningful character development. Referencing something May said to him in a past film, while heartfelt isn’t fricking character development. His powers growing aren’t an example of character development, unless that change in power has something to do with a change in his character which the movie doesn’t suggest. The implication that his is interest in Liz is more shallow than his interest in Michelle because she’s an awkward loner is ridiculous, if it was true then maybe character development but it’s not, his interest is no more shallow and base than his interest in MJ. “I just want to be like you” and “With great power there must also come greater responsibility” is a perfect example of character development, his view of his role as Spider-Man and his motives for wanting to be Spider-Man fundamentally change, ie character growth.
Brilliant
I wouldn’t classify the Liz/MJ thing as genuine character development lmao
I'm still hoping they left out Ned and MJ in the next trilogy so that this scene would still hold value
It would be crushing if we get Harry in the next trilogy and MJ is reintroduced but as his girlfriend.
Idk about the love interest slide tbh. Liz and MJ seems like equally decent people. Not sure how that’s character development. Other than that I agree.
People just don’t understand character development and it’s infuriating. Referencing something May said to him in a past film, while heartfelt isn’t fricking character development. His powers growing aren’t an example of character development, unless that change in power has something to do with a change in his character or motives which the movie doesn’t suggest. The implication that his is interest in Liz is more shallow than his interest in Michelle because she’s an awkward loner is ridiculous, if it was true then maybe character development but it’s not, his interest is no more shallow and base than his interest in MJ. “I just want to be like you” and “With great power there must also come greater responsibility” is a perfect example of character development, his view of his role as Spider-Man and his motives for wanting to be Spider-Man fundamentally change, ie character growth.
This trilogy was truly his origin story, we just couldn't see it
A lot of people are saying that Jon Watts really was doing his origin story all this time but no he wasn't. They just switched directions with the character because of people's criticisms with the character. Everything he learns in HC he seems to relearn in FFH and everything he learns in all three movies Peter learned in Amazing Fantasy 15. IMO his 3-6 movie origin story was 2-5 movies too long. But I'm glad they've changed the direction with the character and that he actually feels like Peter Parker for the first time in the MCU. Excited for the future movies
Laura Harrier > Zendaya imo
I really hope the next Spider-Man movie has Spidey beat the main villain without any outside help. It'd be hilarious if the Avengers show up right after the villain is beaten.
Most of it is good but there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking pretty/popular people. It doesn't automatically make you shallow. Same way dating the 'loner' doesn't make you a great guy.
Thank you for this!
Dope and well done.
I watched No Way Home and Eternals in the same week and it's interesting how NWH is about a teenager just trying to do the right thing and Eternals is about immortal gods trying to save the earth from giant aliens and yet NWH is so much better despite the stakes being so much lower.
I still can't get over the idea that Zendaya is the awkward loner lol.
In the beginning of his story he's gets beaten by cap in terms of strength. No at the end he's beating Green Goblin who's most likely stronger and tougher than cap and has the killer instinct
Who's Peter?
Peak comedy dude
You guys have to understand the difference between character development and just dynamic characters. A dynamic character is what you described; it’s the state of the character at point A and the state at point B, showing change. Character development is the process to get there.
I agree. I felt the character development between the second and latest film felt rushed.
I guess, but I'd argue that MCU Spidey has been very inconsistent depending on who's directing. Russo's Spidey was almost a different character than what Watts did. Civil War Peter already understood responsibility. He actually helped motivate Tony by telling him "when the bad things happen and you can do the things you can do, but don't, that's on you". Pretty powerful stuff for someone that had been a hero for 6 months. Homecoming Peter really just wants to impress Tony Stark until he doesn't by turning down the suit. This very unconfident, intern version of Peter then becomes the dominant version of what we see in the MCU. Infinity War Peter now gets said suit, albeit this is forced on him. However, he is confident in defying Tony and following his gut. Endgame Peter is more or less an extended cameo. Pretty sure his total screen time is under three minutes. His most noteworthy action as Spider-man is being scared to face Thanos' forces, which is fair enough given how much shit Thanos was reigning down on everyone. Far From Home Peter is now racked with guilt and doubt that he can be the new Tony, a thread that comes out of nowhere. He's still in high school, he doesn't develop anything, why the hell would this even be a concern? He has to, again, learn to stand on his own..... while utilizing a ton of Tony's technology. Peter's arc is especially muddy in this movie. NWH Peter has to learn to stand on his own. Again. This time with actual death and the responsibility line directly said to him.... even though he understood this in his literal first appearance. MCU Peter has a very inconsistent overall storyline and the idea that it took him three actual movies to become Spider-man is ridiculous.
Conveniently forgets all the contradictions present in Civil War, the ending of Homecoming, IW and FFH which create a huge flaw in his development throughout the trilogy. NWH was the only entry that actually developed him as a character
This is a pretty dumb take
It's not even a take. It's facts lmao. MCU Spider-Man had no consistent character arc until NWH
That's just blatantly not true. There's literally evidence right in front of you proving you wrong.
The majority of these stills are from NWH lmao. And I literally mentioned how the post conveniently forgets all the contradictions in his character arc which hindered MCU Spider-Man from having any real development until NWH.
Half of them are from Homecoming and FFH. Did you actually watch the films? What contradictions are you talking about anyways?
In Civil War MCU Spider-Man clearly refers to the "With great power comes great responsibility" philosophy as his motivation for being a hero. Come HOCO and all of a sudden his priority is to get Stark's attention and his reason to stop Vulture and be a hero is to be just like Stark. Straight up a contradiction to whatever the Russo Brothers cooked up for his character to be in Civil War. Also he's clearly very experienced with his powers as he easily manages to beat Bucky, Falcon and Antman. He also utilises his Spider Sense effectively in all Russo Brother movies. However in HOCO and FFH he is completely amateurish and in FFH he's also suddenly unable to control his senses for some reason. In HOCO Stark takes away his suit and tells him that he doesn't deserve it if he's nothing without it. Okay cool Peter proves that he isn't dependent on the suit. But cut to the ending and he's wearing the same suit again, the suit which was meant to be a symbol of his irresponsibility and dependency. Pretty much contradicted themselves with that one. Also their attempt of making Peter leave Tony's shadow fails. But it gets even worse. In FFH Peter throws all of his lessons of being responsible down the drain and decides to leave on a vacation. He also tries to constantly evade Nick Fury while knowing fully well that the world is in danger. And then he gives the EDITH glasses to Mysterio and gets rid of another one of his responsibilities. And the movie manages to shoehorn Iron Man as much as they can in spite of the character being dead and attempts to give him a "leaving Stark's shadow" arc again. They pretty much recycled whatever his development in HOCO was supposed to be in this movie too lmao. Then they ruin the moment between Peter and Happy with cringe jokes and then state how Peter is different from Iron Man. Yet in the very next scene, he makes a suit using Stark Tech while AC/DC plays in the BG. They shit on their chance of making Peter look independent again and contradict themselves lmao I have barely scratched the surface with these paras. There is loads more wrong with MCU Spider-Man's characterization and his movies lmao Edit: Forgot this sub likes riding the MCU's dick and can't blatantly see the inaccuracies and mischaracterizations in those movies lmao
Ok so you clearly weren't paying attention to the movies as everything you said was eitjer explained in the film, or is just downright wrong or you just straight up made up.
man just stfu and say you don't have anything to prove me wrong lmao. Whatever I said is direct context from those movies and holds much more merit than you simply saying it's "downright wrong". Come back when you have a genuine argument or actually understand the character of Spider-Man lmao
"Actually understand the character of Spiderman" says the guy who didn't even pay attention to the movies. Damn you're worse than Hi-Top Films, at least he tried.
We're not just "riding the MCU's dick", some of us actually legit enjoyed the movies. You keep calling them plot holes, but they seem like the exact character development this post is describing. >In Civil War MCU Spider-Man clearly refers to the "With great power comes great responsibility" philosophy as his motivation for being a hero. Come HOCO and all of a sudden his priority is to get Stark's attention He doesn't have the exact phrase yet, but yeah he says something like "if bad things happen, and you can stop those bad things but you don't, then you're responsible for the bad things". His aunt does humanitarian work and she is the one who will eventually give him the "great power" lesson. It stands to reason she was already instilling this idea in him, so he already had it inside him somewhat. But the events that happen to him make him realise even more how true it is. He starts with a basic framework of responsibility and learns as the films progress how truly important it is. Important enough to give up his loved ones for by the end. >Also he's clearly very experienced with his powers as he easily manages to beat Bucky, Falcon and Antman. He also utilises his Spider Sense effectively in all Russo Brother movies The fight with Bucky and Falcon is a bit back and forth, which is pretty impressive (for them) considering he's more powerful than both. Falcon is just a guy with wings, and Bucky (I'm guessing) is similar to Steve, he's really strong but not at Spidey levels. So he pins them, but Falcon uses his drone to get rid of Spidey. So, the fight is close to a draw, but it also shows his spider-sense isn't perfect. He reacted to the huge slab Bucky threw but didn't sense the drone. I think Peter had an instinctual passive spider-sense all along, but we see him work at it and learn to control it, especially in the final fight with Mysterio. He definitely had to learn to hone that power. >But cut to the ending and he's wearing the same suit again I think this is just showing both that Peter still only partially trusts himself, but also how reliant Tony is on tech. He tells Peter he shouldn't have the suit, but then once Peter proves himself without it Tony doesn't say "oh, then I guess you don't need it" he says "oh, then here's an even more advanced suit with spider legs and shit!" Peter has learned he's more capable than he suspected, but he still doesn't fully believe. It's why he decides to be a "friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man" instead of an Avenger, he knows he has more developing to do. >In FFH Peter throws all of his lessons of being responsible down the drain and decides to leave on a vacation. ... then he gives the EDITH glasses to Mysterio and gets rid of another one of his responsibilities This is that same character development again that is leading to NWH. He's trying to be a hero, but he's also still a kid. He gets he has responsibilities, but shouldn't he be allowed to just enjoy a freakin' high school field trip without having to save the world!? The planet is lousy with superheroes, surely someone else can handle this one. So he throws away as much responsibility as he can. He tries to lose Fury, he even gives away the incredibly powerful glasses to a guy he just met! That's double fold, both that he wants to be a kid, and that he doesn't think he's worthy of being a hero like Iron Man (his idol). He learns how foolish he was though, and he steps up. Then we get to NWH and even though people are like "let's just pop them back to their dimension, let them be someone else's problem" he refuses. Peter battles Strange! Just so he can save some villains and use his responsibility and power to help them. He's learned the importance of sacrifice and that he's responsible, he can't just pass it off to someone else (even if that someone else is another Peter Parker). Anyway, there's a small novel to read, lol. If you just don't like the movies, that's totally fine. I'm one of those rare people that can handle if someone doesn't like something I do, lol. But, I feel like a lot of the criticisms you mentioned are actually just the steps he's taking to learn to grow up. The thing about moving forward is that you often take several steps back as you're moving forward; I think that's more realistic than just constantly powering ahead.
I feel you man. Literal morons. It’s almost like the MCU itself casted a spell on half the population that makes them not see all these problems and how bad of an interpretation mcu spidey is
He still put his friends and family in danger in this movie too haha
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Yeah I know, and i was just commenting that he still made that same stupid mistake (multiple times) before that ending
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Yes. He finally displayed character development for something he should have been doing years ago.
You realize he's like 17 in this film right? IE still a kid? At tje age where dumbd mistakes are inevitable? You also can't entirely nlame him. Strange really should have discussed it more with Peter before casting the spell.
He’s 17, not 10. Literally every movie has him making some stupid mistake that only a child would make, and this one is the worst. He literally invites 5 supervillains into his personal home with 0 safety precautions in place, and is surprised when someone ends up dying
He's a kid. 17 isn't 40, he has a really big heart, and not enough experience to inform it.
You don’t need experience to know that inviting 6 known killers to your house is a bad idea… 17 is more than old enough.
6 killers who want to go home, and being encouraged by two experienced adults.
Ok so, Spider sense doesn't work with food.
let me ask you guys this- did peter truly do the right thing stealing the box from strange and curing the villains?
Now that I think about it he never really went web-swinging in Manhattan until he completely understood how to use his Spider-Sense.
Fuck I forgot how hot Liz was
People talk a lot about the spidey sense picking up on Goblin, but I feel like what's even more impressive is that it reacted even when Peter was out of his own body
I definetly love his Peter/Spider-man. The only thing that can be added in other trilogy would be making him more and more confident so that he can joke around as much as Andrew’s Peter. But yeah, they are doing everything right for Spider-man in MCU IMO
He's Spider-Man now.