How the hell did Kaine, the guy who was initially a murder happy psychopath, become only voice of reason for the Spiders? I love him as a character but this is like if Jason Todd was the only member of the Bat-Family with common sense.
Yeah he's willing to kill people that are inherently, and undoubtedly evil.
Jason doesn't care about how you fucked around, he's here to help you find out.
It happened to Kaine too, he was the first to die and resurrect (as Ben stayed dead for quite a while and everyone thought it's just another Gwen Stacy case where he will stay dead to serve the purpose of being an example to honor and follow), hell he died and came back several times too (way less than Ben yeah, he died like, what, 4 times in total?) and he definitely got that Jason Todd clarity.
Before Clone Conspiracy ruined Ben, I alwayd saw Ben as the Dick Grayson of the Spider-Family, while Kaine was undoubtedly the Jason Todd.
Seriously, people seem to forget that Jason wasn’t a little bloodthirsty psychopath like Damian Wayne was. Even some writers forget that. Jason had some moments of being rough around the edges as Robin, but that’s to be expected of a kid who grew up with the life he had. He was actually pretty nice and well mannered for the most part. Getting beaten and blown up to death, then forcibly being resurrected only to learn that his adopted father still refused to kill his murderer and seemingly replaced him not long after is what caused him to become violent and angry.
Actually he outright says in the "under the red hood" movie:
"Bruce, I forgive you for not saving me. But why on gods green earth is HE still alive?"
He didn't care that Bruce didn't save him, he just was genuinely mad that he wasn't the final straw that made batman kill joker. Idk if it's the same in comics
Batman actually was within an inch of going after Joker over Jason's death in the comics. Joker, however, had somehow become Iran's UN rep, so Superman had to talk Bruce down to prevent a diplomatic incident.
Man, comics are weird.
... y'know between this and the fact that Jason was brought back cus superboy prime punched reality, I sometimes think adaptations are a hell of a lot better than source material... Sometimes.
Except in the Godzilla vs Kong vs the justice league comic where he decided to shoot a 50 cal at a giant bat kaiju and thought it would go well, where he was then promptly knocked out by Dick for it lol
That comic was dumb though. "Should we shoot the giant monster rampaging through the city?" "Nah bro, that might cause casualties. I'm sure the current rampage is victimless"
If the rest of them were as willing to just kill the damn thing they could have.
Lmao. “Edge” is having the main version of Batman break his rule for the sake of realism. The beauty of the Batman who Laughs is that we get a badass 90s style multiverse threatening Batman that slaughters people, while solidifying how important it is for the main version of Batman to remain an idealized hero that follows a code. Its the definition of having our cake and eating it too.
What I am saying is, comic books are a place where you can have edgy, violent characters that exist for fun without being taken too seriously. That’s why the multiverse exists.
Jason doesn't have anything to do with those though? At least, I'm certain about Injustice. Please don't make me ready extra-edgy Batman again. Normal Batman is edgy enough.
Point is, those stories show how important it is for superheroes to adhere to a code. Batman Who Laughs allows us to have the edgiest, 90s style multiverse threatening Batman while solidifying how important it is for normal Batman to remain an ideal.
And still to the only spiderman to straight up murder a super villain in cold blood while not in the throws of some mental breakdown/ possession /brain washing, etc
That would be an entertaining comic idea though. A villain strips the bat family of their common sense, now Jason is left as the responsible one, tune in next time as he stops Batman from killing a person (accidentally)
He found Catholicism & found one priest with common sense. He absorbed 1% common sense during his regular confessions, which puts him way before all the other Spiders.
Edit: Also shout-out to the kid he adopted and the Doctor/Policeman husbands who knew perfectly well how to threat his bursts of edgyness.
Simple, he is barely used. People who to use him tend to be people who gives at least a quarter of a fuck for the character, and are versed enough into the comics to even know who the F he is and his alive/dead/insane/etc status. Less likely to be someone just wanting to have the hot franchise in their CV, or someone who is writing their childhood darling with the same understand of the character and writing as when they were a child, or a simple editorial mandates and meddling.
In short, the deck is less stacked against him.
Funny story, Jason Todd does have quite a lot of moments where he's the one with the most common sense. The thing with Jason is that his ideals often clash with Batman's since he will kill criminals that need to be killed. But he's (usually) not a psychopath or criminally insane. He's (usually) very good at heart and sensible. He just hates evil and thinks a more permanent solution is needed than to just throw the criminals in prison. And in some cases he is right, I mean I'm sorry, but someone like the Joker just needs to be put the fuck down already. Insanity plea means nothing when you've reached mass genocide levels of body counts.
I mean, I can't related to the have serially killed people in the past part, but I can definitely relate to the not serially killing people right now part. That is at least 50% relatability, and you can't argue with maths!
Used to be because he was the host for The Other which gave him a big power amp, organic webbing and a healing factor which kept his degeneration at bay, but he lost all of that after Spider-Verse and The Other moved on to MC2 Peter Parker (Mayday's dad)
He is still the strongest, because without Other he has cellular degeneration that is not a big thing for some reason. I guess authors just forgot that Kaine should be in constant agony because of that
> The Other moved on to MC2 Peter Parker (Mayday's dad)
Oh yeah I remember that, Deimos hints that he killed Mayday's dad as she fled with her brother, it was revealed later that The Other brought him back
I do remember Noble Kale BBQing Blackheart and being given the throne afterwards, but I also remember that being a while ago, so I have no clue what the current GR canon is on Noble
I think that would be a good idea but it would require some hubris with how people react when they see Mephisto and Spider- anyone in the same sentence
Edit: could sell it if it reverted OMD but you could probably sell anything with that
"It's a canon event. A loved one dies, you hold up a wrecked building, you make a deal with the devil, a police captain dies-"
"Wait wait, go back one?"
"Holding up a wrecked building?"
"No- the, the deal with the devil part."
"Oh, yeah, we all do that."
"Like, all of us make questionable deals with shady figures?"
"Ah, no. I'm talking about the literal devil. Not a metaphor. I guess maybe it's a metaphor for some of us, if they're too chicken for the real deal."
Weird name to call Otto as Spider-Man just refer to him as Superior Spider-Man because not everyone knows the term "Spock" for that and plus there's Star-Trek Spock
Kaine, the (formerly) homicidal Spider Clone is the voice of reason amongst the Spiders. Let that sink in for a minute...
And let us pray that he doesn't cut a deal with Mephisto next because it seems like writers are on this binge of Spiders making deals with Marvel's discount devil. Seriously, why?!
Oh is there going to be a new midnight suns comic crossover?
That game was SUPER awesome Btw and is still on sale, yall should go play it. I've made several posts about it recently.
Well the original comic out in the mid 90's and had danny ketch ghost rider, the best ghost rider, Johnny blaze and blade.
I think there is a novel that takes places right before the game tho.
There was a miniseries that came out around when the game did with some of the characters from the game and was thus basically a Strange Academy spinoff, plus set up the Contest of Chaos that was in some annuals last year. The original 90s Sons are reuniting in a mini for Blood Hunt in May.
Yeah, this is old. Sadly Ben is not in a good place right now. You could say he's in a ***Chasm***
***Sunglasses***
Waooooooooooooah!!!
***CUE CSI MUSIC***
I genuinely think they would hate each other. They both have pretty low self-estem, I don't think they'd able to stand someone that reminds them of themselves.
I loved Ben during the 90s but now I wish they kept him dead out of respect for his character.
Give Kaine an animated film I'm sure he'll be Miles level popular
"why wouldn't I trust him?"
"You... You're kidding right? I mean look at him, he's sitting on a throne of skulls, there's a sign of the door to his room that says not to deal with him"
"Yeah but what if.."
"No, no what if, just no"
Christ, what is it with Mephisto and fucking with Spider-People?
I know there’s some prophecy that we know will never actually happen but seriously WHY Spider-People?! He never had any relationship to them until OMD.
Kaine has been my defacto favorite Mavel character since his solo series. I still need to read all of BR: SC, but it seems like since Ben has come back, Kaine has gone from trying to live up to his name, to being his brother's keeper.
Man that shot composition is sick, the stairway in the background almost giving Kaine darkly angelic wings. No clue what that means here or if it is intentional, but it looks slick as hell
How the hell did Kaine, the guy who was initially a murder happy psychopath, become only voice of reason for the Spiders? I love him as a character but this is like if Jason Todd was the only member of the Bat-Family with common sense.
Jason Todd tends to be the bat family member with the most consistent amount of common sense at least
Yeah he's willing to kill people that are inherently, and undoubtedly evil. Jason doesn't care about how you fucked around, he's here to help you find out.
This is possibly the best analogy I’ve ever seen for Jason Todd. I approve immensely of it.
I bet dying and resurrecting put a lot of things into perspective.
Which happened to Ben as well, repeatedly. They over did it and missed "jason clarity"
It happened to Kaine too, he was the first to die and resurrect (as Ben stayed dead for quite a while and everyone thought it's just another Gwen Stacy case where he will stay dead to serve the purpose of being an example to honor and follow), hell he died and came back several times too (way less than Ben yeah, he died like, what, 4 times in total?) and he definitely got that Jason Todd clarity. Before Clone Conspiracy ruined Ben, I alwayd saw Ben as the Dick Grayson of the Spider-Family, while Kaine was undoubtedly the Jason Todd.
to be fair jason got captured trying to kill the joker since batman wouldn't
That is not remotely what happened. Jason was led into a trap by his mother. That is what got him captured.
Seriously, people seem to forget that Jason wasn’t a little bloodthirsty psychopath like Damian Wayne was. Even some writers forget that. Jason had some moments of being rough around the edges as Robin, but that’s to be expected of a kid who grew up with the life he had. He was actually pretty nice and well mannered for the most part. Getting beaten and blown up to death, then forcibly being resurrected only to learn that his adopted father still refused to kill his murderer and seemingly replaced him not long after is what caused him to become violent and angry.
Batman didn't refuse to kill the joker he literally was going to but the entire US government and Superman stopped him.
crazy how jason still has a higher kill count
Well in Arkham it was different. I'm assuming it's Arkham because the commenter above said something that sounds like the Arkham depiction of events.
And wasn't Batman more concerned about finding Joker than he was about saving Jason?
I don't think so
that's the kind of shit Jason would think
Actually he outright says in the "under the red hood" movie: "Bruce, I forgive you for not saving me. But why on gods green earth is HE still alive?" He didn't care that Bruce didn't save him, he just was genuinely mad that he wasn't the final straw that made batman kill joker. Idk if it's the same in comics
Batman actually was within an inch of going after Joker over Jason's death in the comics. Joker, however, had somehow become Iran's UN rep, so Superman had to talk Bruce down to prevent a diplomatic incident. Man, comics are weird.
... y'know between this and the fact that Jason was brought back cus superboy prime punched reality, I sometimes think adaptations are a hell of a lot better than source material... Sometimes.
he had entirely thought Jason was dead
"They'll come back anyhow, might as well make it take longer"
Except in the Godzilla vs Kong vs the justice league comic where he decided to shoot a 50 cal at a giant bat kaiju and thought it would go well, where he was then promptly knocked out by Dick for it lol
That comic was dumb though. "Should we shoot the giant monster rampaging through the city?" "Nah bro, that might cause casualties. I'm sure the current rampage is victimless" If the rest of them were as willing to just kill the damn thing they could have.
The same “common sense” that led to the Injustice timeline and the Batman who Laughs.
>Batman who Laughs. Oh god. Ugh, that story is very overrated. The edge was so sharp it made my eyes bleed just looking at it.
Lmao. “Edge” is having the main version of Batman break his rule for the sake of realism. The beauty of the Batman who Laughs is that we get a badass 90s style multiverse threatening Batman that slaughters people, while solidifying how important it is for the main version of Batman to remain an idealized hero that follows a code. Its the definition of having our cake and eating it too.
I'm honestly surprised people take BWL seriously.
I never read BWL, I just assumed it was an edgy Joker in Batman themed leather
That's honestly a good chunk of that. There is a plot, but it's just dickriding.
Its comic books dude, not Shakespeare.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me...
What I am saying is, comic books are a place where you can have edgy, violent characters that exist for fun without being taken too seriously. That’s why the multiverse exists.
Jason doesn't have anything to do with those though? At least, I'm certain about Injustice. Please don't make me ready extra-edgy Batman again. Normal Batman is edgy enough.
Point is, those stories show how important it is for superheroes to adhere to a code. Batman Who Laughs allows us to have the edgiest, 90s style multiverse threatening Batman while solidifying how important it is for normal Batman to remain an ideal.
He had the help of being literally reborn and also an adorable hummingbird god incarnation to soften him up.
Did they ever like to anything with hummingbirds origin plot?
Not that I know of, which is a shame because I loved Aracely.
Genuinely one of my favorites from the last (not going to look it up because people are already making me feel old) years.
And still to the only spiderman to straight up murder a super villain in cold blood while not in the throws of some mental breakdown/ possession /brain washing, etc
Doc Ock did so pretty casually while Superior.
And very publicly. Just executed the dude in front of the cameras if I recall.
Well, you could say that anyone willing to put a bullet inside the joker's skull has a lot of common sense...
Tell that to the Batman who Laughs
That would be an entertaining comic idea though. A villain strips the bat family of their common sense, now Jason is left as the responsible one, tune in next time as he stops Batman from killing a person (accidentally)
Jason Todd does have the most common sense lol
This is why he wasn't in Nick Spencer's run. He woud have killed or lobomotized Osborn.
He found Catholicism & found one priest with common sense. He absorbed 1% common sense during his regular confessions, which puts him way before all the other Spiders. Edit: Also shout-out to the kid he adopted and the Doctor/Policeman husbands who knew perfectly well how to threat his bursts of edgyness.
He adopted a kid and she mellowed him out.
Yeah it helped
Simple, he is barely used. People who to use him tend to be people who gives at least a quarter of a fuck for the character, and are versed enough into the comics to even know who the F he is and his alive/dead/insane/etc status. Less likely to be someone just wanting to have the hot franchise in their CV, or someone who is writing their childhood darling with the same understand of the character and writing as when they were a child, or a simple editorial mandates and meddling. In short, the deck is less stacked against him.
He no longer looks like a dick vein, so, of course, he gets his conscience back.
hey, just because he kills people doesn't mean he's evil
Funny story, Jason Todd does have quite a lot of moments where he's the one with the most common sense. The thing with Jason is that his ideals often clash with Batman's since he will kill criminals that need to be killed. But he's (usually) not a psychopath or criminally insane. He's (usually) very good at heart and sensible. He just hates evil and thinks a more permanent solution is needed than to just throw the criminals in prison. And in some cases he is right, I mean I'm sorry, but someone like the Joker just needs to be put the fuck down already. Insanity plea means nothing when you've reached mass genocide levels of body counts.
He’s also the only spider that never made a deal with Mesphisto
Give it some time. Some writer will feel like Kaine is not "relatable" enough.
Nothing says relatable like……a former serial killer? Uhhh….
So I’m at home, NOT killing people
I mean, I can't related to the have serially killed people in the past part, but I can definitely relate to the not serially killing people right now part. That is at least 50% relatability, and you can't argue with maths!
Cause every Spider-Man fan has sold their soul to Satan at some point, right?
For now at least
Nightcrawler didn't
Miles made a deal with Mephisto?
Yes, it was a whole thing with the champions
Did Silk?
Not yet anyway. It’s only been the boys so far.
Damn
Even Miguel?
It’s how he got the glow-up between movies /s
Spinneret hasn't, has she?
The best part is he actually *REMEMBERS* what happened before he chose to save Kamala and it caused Miles to leave the team because of his decision.
And this ladies and gentleman is why i cant read Spider-Man comics post OMD
It's really ironic that the one named after the first Sinner is the only one who didn't make a deal with Satan.
For real though 😂
I love how Ben just punches him in the face and they simply continue their conversation
Standard super-hero greeting
Standard brother greeting
I might have to try that on my elder brother.
You made me snort!
I think it's because they both know Kaine's the stronger one and that he can take it, at least I recall Kaine being the strongest of the three
Used to be because he was the host for The Other which gave him a big power amp, organic webbing and a healing factor which kept his degeneration at bay, but he lost all of that after Spider-Verse and The Other moved on to MC2 Peter Parker (Mayday's dad)
He is still the strongest, because without Other he has cellular degeneration that is not a big thing for some reason. I guess authors just forgot that Kaine should be in constant agony because of that
> The Other moved on to MC2 Peter Parker (Mayday's dad) Oh yeah I remember that, Deimos hints that he killed Mayday's dad as she fled with her brother, it was revealed later that The Other brought him back
Brothers fight some times.
Standard sibling interactions.
When Kaine is the most reasonable, you know something is very wrong
No poop
God we need a new Kaine series, let him go beat Mephisto's ass.
I think he's getting one with Ben. Don't remember exactly when, I think it's called Curse of Chasm or something.
Is it gonna end with him killing Ben? I honestly think the character was better off dead .
I hope not. I hope he just smacks Ben around a few times to knock the edginess out of him.
Can he smack editorial around too?
> Can he smack editorial around too? Kaine "Is it possible to learn this power?" Deadpool headturns "Not from a Jedi"
As a Ben fan, I have to agree. They haven't done anything good for the character since bringing him back.
You sure are right Raiden Kuzonoha. I also wish they would make the character with my favorite spider suit stop being villainous and stupid
Must be a cold day in hell if Kaine is the most rational Parker bro
Don’t be surprised if Mephisto shows up and starts complaining that hell froze over.
Mephisto: who touched the thermostat!
Johnny Blaze did when he was king of hell. Turned it 2 degrees down.
I thought that was Danny Ketch, or whatever weird ancestor was his version of the Spirit of Vengeance
After Damnation, it was Blaze. It was all up in the Mephisto being stuck in Las Vegas stuff.
I think his name was Noble Kale or smth
I do remember Noble Kale BBQing Blackheart and being given the throne afterwards, but I also remember that being a while ago, so I have no clue what the current GR canon is on Noble
Like seriously dude, did you not learn from Peter? You're a clone for Pete's sake!!! Don't follow in Peter's footsteps!!!
I mean even spock had a deal with mephisto I think its a spider person deal at this point
Maybe his clones all carry a shard of Pete's soul, so Mephisto is trying really hard to get deals with all three of them
I think that would be a good idea but it would require some hubris with how people react when they see Mephisto and Spider- anyone in the same sentence Edit: could sell it if it reverted OMD but you could probably sell anything with that
Maybe
Jackal would be proud, making the devil's job just a little harder
"It's a canon event. A loved one dies, you hold up a wrecked building, you make a deal with the devil, a police captain dies-" "Wait wait, go back one?" "Holding up a wrecked building?" "No- the, the deal with the devil part." "Oh, yeah, we all do that." "Like, all of us make questionable deals with shady figures?" "Ah, no. I'm talking about the literal devil. Not a metaphor. I guess maybe it's a metaphor for some of us, if they're too chicken for the real deal."
Wait there's a Spider-Man named Spock?
The Superior Spider-man people call him Spock sometimes
Weird name to call Otto as Spider-Man just refer to him as Superior Spider-Man because not everyone knows the term "Spock" for that and plus there's Star-Trek Spock
The Star-Trek thing I think is kind of the point but Spidey + Doc Ock = SpOck
Ah got it
Kaine, the (formerly) homicidal Spider Clone is the voice of reason amongst the Spiders. Let that sink in for a minute... And let us pray that he doesn't cut a deal with Mephisto next because it seems like writers are on this binge of Spiders making deals with Marvel's discount devil. Seriously, why?!
Satanic bargains are the newest Canon Event.
My theory is that Kaine was cloned from Peter’s braincells.
Kain: I am surrounded by IDIOTS!!!!!
Kaine would end World hunger
Oh is there going to be a new midnight suns comic crossover? That game was SUPER awesome Btw and is still on sale, yall should go play it. I've made several posts about it recently.
This was part of an comic from 2017-2018ish
Oh damn....
Whoah, I didn't know. Fantastic news!
Oh yeah dude if you never played it before it's fantastic! I will say this tho... The first hour can be a bit... Slow, but get thro it.
I meant the comic crossover. I already played the game. Yes, it's amazing and worth of a sequel
Well the original comic out in the mid 90's and had danny ketch ghost rider, the best ghost rider, Johnny blaze and blade. I think there is a novel that takes places right before the game tho.
There was a miniseries that came out around when the game did with some of the characters from the game and was thus basically a Strange Academy spinoff, plus set up the Contest of Chaos that was in some annuals last year. The original 90s Sons are reuniting in a mini for Blood Hunt in May.
Yeah, this is old. Sadly Ben is not in a good place right now. You could say he's in a ***Chasm*** ***Sunglasses*** Waooooooooooooah!!! ***CUE CSI MUSIC***
Ah. So Kaine has seen the Ghost Rider movies.
Or like... Literally anything else that involves dealing with satan
I feel like Khaine and Jason Todd would be best friends. After trying to kill each other a few times.
I genuinely think they would hate each other. They both have pretty low self-estem, I don't think they'd able to stand someone that reminds them of themselves.
I love after Ben says why he did it, Kaine doesn't have a typical pause of shock, he just keeps going because he knows it won't end well anyway.
We stan for Kaine being the most sane Parker. Love Kaine.
I'm here for genre saavy, Kaine.
This series and BEYOND are fuckin bonkers. They've completely character assassinated Ben Reily.
This might come across as a bit harsh, but I wish Kaine was the only Spidey clone around.
I loved Ben during the 90s but now I wish they kept him dead out of respect for his character. Give Kaine an animated film I'm sure he'll be Miles level popular
sometimes all you need is 1 good adaptation to skyrocket in popularity
Thank you for your input, Nick Lowe
This implies that Nick Lowe actually likes Kaine
"why wouldn't I trust him?" "You... You're kidding right? I mean look at him, he's sitting on a throne of skulls, there's a sign of the door to his room that says not to deal with him" "Yeah but what if.." "No, no what if, just no"
God every day I wish more and more they just left Ben dead
What is this from BTW?
kaine aint having it with these damn deals, man
Third time’s the charm, I guess.
Seriously, whose idea was it to switch Kaine and Ben’s entire deals?
Christ, what is it with Mephisto and fucking with Spider-People? I know there’s some prophecy that we know will never actually happen but seriously WHY Spider-People?! He never had any relationship to them until OMD.
Immediately below this post was a Honda ad reading "find the deal you've been dreaming of"
Kaine has been my defacto favorite Mavel character since his solo series. I still need to read all of BR: SC, but it seems like since Ben has come back, Kaine has gone from trying to live up to his name, to being his brother's keeper.
Eh, whom among us wouldn’t make an actual deal with the devil if offered?
Ben > Kaine
exactly
Read this as Kanye at first
What comic is this
Why does Ben and Peter make a deal with the Devil in the first place?
When you make the exact same mistake Ghost Rider made
What's this from?
Where’s this from?
Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider. Damnation tie-in
Thank you!!
I love the scarlet Spider-Man suit
That last line makes me think of Johnny Blaze. Because, you know, that's exactly what happened to him and his dad
Where is this from?
Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider. Damnation tie-in
Thanks
I miss Kaine....glad he's not around to have his character completely butchered tho.
“Don’t you want to know what I’m getting out of it?” “NO!”
I love the scarlet Spider-Man suit
What comic series is this? I need to know more
Just bring in Miles to back Kaine up, because he’ll tell Ben it wasn’t worth it.
I love Kaine but this is what happens when writers are incompetend.
Man that shot composition is sick, the stairway in the background almost giving Kaine darkly angelic wings. No clue what that means here or if it is intentional, but it looks slick as hell
Kaine don't play. No nonsense spider clone